WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:14.679 Special Operations, Cobert SB and I the team House with your hopes, Jack 2 00:00:14.759 --> 00:00:26.800 Burphy and David Park. Hey, everyone, welcome to our episode Christmas episode 3 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:30.160 I hope it's going to be episode two fifty one. I'm Jack here with 4 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:35.600 Dave. Our guest on tonight's show is Melissa Nahatta. She is an Army 5 00:00:35.679 --> 00:00:41.719 Psyops veteran, served in psychological operations and deployed as the first female Psychological Operations 6 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:46.159 team leader to a combat zone and we're really excited to have her on the 7 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:51.399 show tonight. So Melissa, thank you for coming on and doing this well. 8 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:56.079 Thanks Dave and Jack. I appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely, And 9 00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:58.840 so I'll start with the same question that we ask you know, all of 10 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:00.159 our guests, So a little bit about your origin story, if you could 11 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:03.120 tell us a little bit about your upbringing and how that kind of took you 12 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:10.319 towards military service. Yeah. Sure. So I was born in Alpaso, 13 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:15.840 Texas, the Desert. I was raised halfway there, and I graduated out 14 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:19.280 of Tucson, Arizona and got accepted to NMSU. So that's where I did 15 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:22.519 my schooling app for around three and a half. Few years there I did 16 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:27.319 a RTC and jer rotc throughout my time, so I was always bound to 17 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:30.400 be in the military. I knew from the beginning that was what I was 18 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:34.319 gonna do. I just couldn't pick what branch between Marines and Army. I 19 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:40.239 ended up choosing the Army because I went to a marine devil pup small camp 20 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:42.959 that they sent bad kids too. But I asked my dad, in fact, 21 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:46.000 that bagged my bad dad to pay for me to go to it with 22 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.120 another friend, and we were the few ones that volunteered to go, and 23 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:52.599 the rest of the bad kids that go and you get for three weeks, 24 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:56.480 you get usually crapped by your marine people. It was great. I loved 25 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:00.879 it. I've always enjoyed that type of stuff. Anything physical and intense I 26 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:06.280 like. But I did talk to the female drill sergeants there drill instructures, 27 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:08.879 and they said that there was no place for the female really to go aside 28 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:13.719 from supply quartermaster. And that's not what I was looking for. So I 29 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:15.960 went ahead and chose the Army, and in two thousand and two, after 30 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:20.840 a year after the Towers, I joined the active duty. I mean, 31 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:27.439 I joined the reserves out of NMSU and I'll pass with Texas. I joined 32 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.759 the reserves there. I had a GT score of one to eighteen. But 33 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:32.800 I was given four options. I guess, I don't know, maybe become 34 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:37.240 a female and maybe because I was going to reserve, but I was given 35 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:43.680 to be a laundry in bath, a Fueler eighty eight mike, and a 36 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:46.800 sewing parachute person. And I was like, I can't sew, I can't 37 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:49.319 cook, I can't to cook. I couldn't do none of that. So 38 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:52.159 I said, which the ones could get me the dirtiest and you know, 39 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:55.159 most in the ground, and they said fueler. So I went with Fueler 40 00:02:55.159 --> 00:03:00.840 with a GT score of one eighteen and a three hundred PET score and then 41 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:05.520 I did around three and a half years there. The war kickoff in Iraq, 42 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:07.680 and I was still going to NMSU and I was still in the RGC 43 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:12.400 program. Was never going to commission. I knew I was always meant to 44 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:15.240 be a knuckle dragger and enlisted. But I had fun with them for three 45 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:17.960 years. And my master's sergeant was on behind me when I said I was 46 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:23.039 going to go active duty and stay and listed. But you know, three 47 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:27.000 the workicked off, my reserve unit activated and We're going to go to Iraq, 48 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:29.280 and I was like, man, I'm going to die from this reserved 49 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:32.520 people because there was some crazy shit going on with these reservists or something else. 50 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:38.479 And we ended up not making out their Turkey closed their borders, so 51 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:40.120 we stayed. We stayed at the home front, and all our ship made 52 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:45.280 it out there and we didn't, so we lost all our equipment and tough 53 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:50.159 boxes and vehicles and tankers. But No. Five, I went active duty. 54 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:53.520 I went. I requested Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and in O 55 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:57.599 six I went to Iraq as a fueler, which is not the best thing 56 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.680 in Iraq yet do. But when I came back, I knew I wanted 57 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:04.800 to get a quartermaster. And I went to the siop Q course, the 58 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:12.159 qualification course in eight and made it through and continue through there see your school 59 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.920 Griffin jump Master. And then in twenty ten and eleven I went to Afghanistan 60 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:20.920 with an o DA And then twenty eleven and twelve I went again for another 61 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:26.040 rotation. Can you When I came back, I wanted a third rotation, 62 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:30.360 but women weren't out there at the time, so and I almost got blown 63 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:31.800 up a couple of times and they thought I was in a body bag for 64 00:04:31.839 --> 00:04:38.120 a bit, so the command got I think scared, and when I came 65 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:41.319 back, theyasically threw me to the battalion or the S three, and I 66 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:44.839 wasn't ready to stop. I wasn't ready to take a knee. I was 67 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.439 desperate to go back out the last rotation and we ended on a kind of 68 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:53.600 bad note. We lost somebody that we didn't get a venged for, and 69 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:56.680 I just felt like going back out. I felt I wasn't done so and 70 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:58.920 the unit wasn't willing to send me. Sig Up was giving me a hard 71 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:02.439 time. I've always been fighting back and forth with SYOP, so I chose 72 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:08.600 to lead them, and I got accepted to go assess for Special Missions Unit, 73 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:11.480 and I went over there, assessed for forty five days, came back 74 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:17.000 and was accepted and started OTC in twenty thirteen. But it's a long story. 75 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:21.600 But in between there I am in twenty fifteen nine. They're praying it. 76 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:26.160 I was married for ten years already, and I chose to come back 77 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:30.800 to SIOP and thought I'd go over to the female side and the CAG side 78 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:33.839 go try out with them. But I just was naive and had my baby 79 00:05:33.879 --> 00:05:38.639 and chose to just finish off my time in SIOP and just about it. 80 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:46.040 So and I ended up just retiring. Can you we've never had a fueller 81 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:50.319 on and you know, we don't talk a lot often with people who have 82 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:55.639 been on the more support side of things. Can you tell us what the 83 00:05:55.680 --> 00:06:01.759 training was like and what your role was as a fueler. So back when 84 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:05.240 I went into thousand two, we were still not full blown to basic and 85 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:09.199 a T. It wasn't full blown into wars, so people were doing c 86 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:13.199 QB and basic training and you're still doing baying at course and all that that 87 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:16.160 old stuff. I don't even remember what. I have bad memory. I 88 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:19.160 don't remember most of a I T. I was in Virginia. It was 89 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:26.040 maybe a six months or so. I don't know how. But they all 90 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:28.519 say when you get your unit, you're gonna learn. So when I got 91 00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:31.000 six to the active duty, because the reserve you don't learn nothing. I 92 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:34.800 just I just took advantage of my reserve time and had fun at the RCC 93 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:40.000 and went to everybone school in mount warfare school while I was on the reserves 94 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.439 plane, you know, the one weekend a month, two weekend, two 95 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:47.240 weeks a year. But when I went into active duty, and within a 96 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:50.480 month after going after duty and going to Fort Bragg, I deployed with them, 97 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:57.000 and that's where I learned my job how to refuel Bradley's. I did 98 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:03.120 aviation and refueling, So I refueled kay was should know books constas surpus and 99 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:08.519 then I got to refuel some tanks as well. Back in two thousand and 100 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:12.680 six and seven, that was when the fuelers and your eighty eight mins are 101 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:15.319 really getting hit hard with casualties from being on the roads. And we were 102 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:18.800 supposed to be on the road hauling, which meant I would be, you 103 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:24.560 know, pulling a five ton or a hymet with a JPA big ass barm 104 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:29.639 on my butt. But I guess the the the the planets the line just 105 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:32.279 right, and we got pulled off that mission. The unit that we ended 106 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:38.480 up replacing got kicked out of country because they were siphoning gas and some big 107 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:41.480 old like the whole man went down and it was a big mess. It 108 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:45.560 was this immediate, and so we got pulled off our mission and got shoved 109 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:46.439 into that one, and I guess it saved quite a bit of us. 110 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:53.240 So I got the the comfort side of Iraq. I didn't get to get 111 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:58.519 on the roads often, we didn't drive. I just refueled aviation and did 112 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:03.040 the adag missions. So quarter master is necessary, quartermasters everywhere, right, 113 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:07.720 you lose a war without quarter master. But it wasn't for me. Let's 114 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.399 just say that wasn't my That's not what I intended. I intend to actually 115 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:13.040 go to aighty second when I when I went active duty, and they sent 116 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:18.079 me to at the one four And I don't know if you've been on four 117 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:20.240 Bragg, but it's on the other side of the train tracks, the railroad, 118 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.560 and let me say it is definitely on the wrong side of tracks. 119 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:31.839 It was a stock and I, you know, I deployed with them and 120 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:33.960 I was like, no, one, time's enough, I'm I gotta get 121 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.480 out of here. So I just didn't fit down. So how did how 122 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:41.720 did sy ops com up come up on your radar? How did you find 123 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:48.320 out about it and think it would be a good fit for you? Well, 124 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:50.200 nobody knows what the hell sip is, right, I thought out about 125 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:56.679 it when I went to them work course the PLBC back in the day. 126 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:00.919 But I don't know what's can't remember it's called now the Warrior something like that. 127 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:05.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah, but PLDC back then, you know, 128 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:07.519 and there was a slapper there hit. I kind of tucked them a little 129 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:11.039 bit, but they stuffed themselves. And when I came back, I knew 130 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:13.919 I need to leave the unit. I couldn't stay there. I requested go 131 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:16.720 to airsol Sear School. They were just you know, I was just too 132 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:22.840 motivated to be in that unit, and I started rubbing people wrong because I 133 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:26.240 just, you know, I could have just go at their op tempo with 134 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:33.399 very slow and lazy op tempo. And so I just started looking around. 135 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:35.039 And I remember I had heard about SLAP and there was a buddy of mine 136 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:39.200 she said her husband was civil fairs, and I started looking to civil fairs 137 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:43.080 and I said, okay, well, yeah, you know, building schools 138 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:46.120 and build wells and all that. But I didn't know what SLAP was, 139 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:50.360 so I and I didn't realize that SLAP was so closed off to females at 140 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:52.799 the time then. So I went for them and I said in the packet, 141 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:54.759 they accepted me, and I went to go. At the time, 142 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.759 we still didn't have the at thest eleven day Now Assessment selection for SAP it 143 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:01.360 was. I was a precursor to it, so it was like a genesis 144 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:07.720 program three years of building before the assessment course for them. But I went 145 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:11.559 through that and went through the course and then they got accepted and finished it 146 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:15.559 off. And that's what I realized, maybe I should have gone see it 147 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:22.360 in the beginning. Uh So, for for viewers out there who don't understand 148 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:26.240 what psyops is, what psychological operations are in the army, could you could 149 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:30.000 you give like a little description of like what that career field is, Like 150 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:35.399 yeah, it's it's kind of hard to give a real quick descriptions, like 151 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:37.159 when someone tells, like what would you do? As I said, like 152 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:41.440 ship, what don't I do? Depends on your your your series right eighteen 153 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:50.000 you can you can give. But the biggest sure, yeah, the biggest 154 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.519 thing is just we influence and change human behavior on specific target target audiences that 155 00:10:54.559 --> 00:11:00.840 we've picked to better the support of the United States. And and how you 156 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:03.639 do it is where it becomes how you do it, when you do it, 157 00:11:03.639 --> 00:11:05.879 and who you do it too is where it becomes tricky. But we 158 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:09.559 just influence and change behavior, just like I think the other females said when 159 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:11.759 they do it to us, it's propaganda. When we do it to we 160 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:16.000 don't have to Americans, not a lout. But when we do to adversaries 161 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:20.360 or are partner forces, it's sy o. And when civilities do it's marketing 162 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:26.039 or media. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. And a 163 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.919 lot of people, unfortunately kind of think that psyops are just like pamphlet droppers, 164 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:35.039 that you guys take cardboard boxes full of pamphlets and dump them out of 165 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:37.799 the back of a helicopter. But I mean there's a lot more to it 166 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:43.159 because some yeah, well you know, there's a lot of our own cybers. 167 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:45.720 I think that's all what it is, that it's just leaflets. And 168 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.840 we had a real big boot awakening when we start working a lot more in 169 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:52.440 Afghans and when you realize you can't just drop leafs. That's over ninety percent 170 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:56.399 of the population is illiterate. They're just gonna then when you wipe their ass 171 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:58.799 with it, right, because they don't wipe their aus like that. So 172 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:03.440 it was pointless to go at that medium. You had to find a different 173 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:09.919 way. So we had adjusted to it because a lot of your older guys 174 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:13.759 from the first call for that that's what they did. They dropped a lot 175 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:16.559 of leaflets and it was real successful in the first call for you had. 176 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.440 You know, I can't remember how four hundred some people surrendered in Iraq because 177 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.399 they dropped them. They did a psychological action we call it sayak in one 178 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:30.679 one village and then on the next village after the leafs were dropped, the 179 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:33.360 knew that we were about to bomb because the previous village did, so they 180 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:35.480 all, you know, dropped their weapons down and came out. So it's 181 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:39.320 it's it was useful there, but it wasn't the same in Afghanistan, so 182 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:45.759 they had a just fire there. And so what was your first position when 183 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:48.559 you got to psyops? I mean it was this, uh what what is 184 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:50.960 it on Braga? Is it the fourth Psyop Battalion or fourth Psyop Group? 185 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:56.519 It changes every time. I don't know a pick a day, pick a 186 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:00.720 name. So originally when I first got there in nine, it was the 187 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:05.120 for Psychologic fourth POGST Psychological Operation Group, and then they created another one it 188 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:11.399 was fourth and eighth because then it split the battalions amongst them, uh insileed 189 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:15.480 ninth Battalion as of still now is the was the only tactical battalion. The 190 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:18.159 whole batton was tactical, and all your other battalions lined up with the region. 191 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:24.120 First Battalion lined up with seventh Group. Uh, seventh Battalion was with 192 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:30.480 third Group with the Africaan and whatnot. But it along the way it changed 193 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:33.200 the Kneesock, which was just a big old gaggle fuck, and then it 194 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:35.279 went back. And I don't know, I've been out for five years, 195 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:39.240 and I keep up with a couple of my my buddies there and I hear 196 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:43.080 that they're actually falling under first s FC now, so there's a lot of 197 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:50.279 growning right now. Yes. Uh so what was your like, your first 198 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:54.519 duty position when you got to the unit when you arrived there. So when 199 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.240 I first got to it, I got it's the assigned to ninth Battalion, 200 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:01.799 and then I got pushed down to to a line company, trolley company. 201 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:03.960 And when most females, and I guess, because they do a board and 202 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:09.000 they go through your old timers go through and distribute the people coming in, 203 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:11.480 and I guess I was an orthograd for the stop course and I had a 204 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:16.960 couple of them distinguishing stuff and PT and my language, and I'm brown, 205 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:22.399 you know, so I fit in So I was I might have looked okay 206 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:26.000 on paper. So they sent me to Trolley Company, a line company, 207 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:28.840 but females don't usually go to the line companies, and as they do, 208 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:33.039 they go to the PDD, the product development detachment. So the way that 209 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:39.720 one company is set up is there's three detachments, the usually twelve matches, 210 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:41.519 kind of like an OHD eight uh, and then there is a support on 211 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:45.480 a product development and they're the ones that usually back in the big basis big 212 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:48.519 buck fobs, and that's where you put your females. Well, I basually 213 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:58.120 went to a Charlie company. Uh yeah, trying to do the detachment. 214 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:03.000 Sorry, might have a child bust in. ID to the first detachment, 215 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.320 and since we were on a mission at that time, every they rotate a 216 00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:09.840 mission. I don't know if they do that in SF too, but they 217 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:15.080 rotate a mission that keeps us here on home and if there's a natural disaster 218 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.200 Katrina happens again, that whole company will go and support that. At the 219 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.720 time when I got to Trolley Company, that's where we were at. So 220 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:24.759 I guess they saw it fit for me to be it was okay for me 221 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:31.399 to be in a detachment even though women weren't allowed there. Then Haiti happened, 222 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:33.639 and instantly they pushed me out of there into the training room because they 223 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:37.039 didn't want me to pull in with it because I was a female. But 224 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:41.000 at the time, I had, you know, more qualifications than half our 225 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.759 stoppers, and I had been you know, eagerly going to all these schools 226 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:48.600 and Seer school and I can outruck quite a bit of people and you know, 227 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:50.960 the jump Master Griffin Group and all that stuff. And so the minute 228 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.399 we came back from Haiti, I fought to get back on the detachment. 229 00:15:54.519 --> 00:16:00.039 Then when we deployed to Afghanistan the first time with Charlie Something in twenty ten, 230 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.399 I was in the detachment, but I was considered the detachment headquarter. 231 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:07.559 So that's the way I snuck on was with the officer. Because we have 232 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:10.480 a detachment, then you have your like you guys have your alpha and your 233 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:11.960 your warrant. Where we have an alpha and have a team, a team 234 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:18.279 daddy, an officer, a captain, and a East seven usually should be 235 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:22.240 on there. And I was, you know, the the helping hand in 236 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.440 there. I snuck on as part of the headquarters. And then when a 237 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:30.440 team went down and wash, the team leader was need to be removed because 238 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.360 of stuff going on. I ended up filling that backspot and I got on 239 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:37.360 a team, and that's the way I went so so at the time, 240 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:42.120 they were reticent to put women on the tactical syops teams that are sort of 241 00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:47.799 like out there working side by side special forces odios. Yes, okay, 242 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:52.200 yeah, And even though the MOS is not considered a combat MOS, therefore 243 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.600 there is nothing on paper. And that was my biggest file of tim show 244 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:57.919 me on paper that says I can't be on a detachment. Show me on 245 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:02.639 paper, I can't be on a team. If I can't cut the mustard, 246 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:04.279 then I'm good. But if I can out do half these guys, 247 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:07.559 why can't I be on a team. You know, we had all the 248 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.720 things from well, what about when you're on your cycle? It's like, 249 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:12.799 look, this is the two thousands, now two thousand and eight, I 250 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:17.039 said, I literally take depos so I don't even cycle. Second. Of 251 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:19.759 all, half the rest of the world lives in a place that doesn't have 252 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:22.920 water. Do you think they die from having their cycle out there? I 253 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:27.079 said, we saw gas and some people were baking some funkiness up in there. 254 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:33.240 It's like, so it attracts the bears. I was just thinking about 255 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.839 the bears. Bear. Yeah, what's up, guys. This show is 256 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:41.440 sponsored by Hymns Real Talk. Fifty two percent of men over a forty experience 257 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:45.079 some form of ED between the ages of forty and seventy, but it's always 258 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.960 been a taboo topic. Thankfully, Hams is changing the app are providing affordable 259 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:55.319 access to ED treatment all online. 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That's code Teamhouse fifty at f Factor Meals dot 302 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:06.440 Com slash Teamhouse fifty to get fifty percent off. You could also check out 303 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:08.119 the links down in the description and in the show notes. Whether you're watching 304 00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:12.119 or listening, we appreciate it. Thank you, Factor Meals, Factor dot 305 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:18.359 Com slash Teamhouse fifty. Use the code Teamhouse fifty to get fifty percent off 306 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:22.359 your order. Thank you. Well yeah, area, yeah, and uh, 307 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:27.200 I don't know, And I guess it made my king was always it 308 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:32.279 made slap feel elite by saying no females are allowed there above there, And 309 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:37.200 I know the mission does come with it. But when you're the redhead step 310 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:38.759 step child, which slap is, they hate it. But where the red 311 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:45.559 his stepchild to the step right, they they have to prove. They're always 312 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.839 trying to prove something they're always proving, right and by not having a female 313 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.279 on there and put some of the same levels as your SF was. And 314 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:56.960 it's funny because they all the command all everybody would always tell me, you 315 00:21:56.079 --> 00:22:00.000 can't be on our team because of all these other excuses you're rag and everything. 316 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.079 And then on top of it, no team is gonna accept you. 317 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.480 No s F team, no Seal team, no Marshal Arts team is gonna 318 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.720 accept you or Marshall didn't exist back then. But and I was like, 319 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:11.440 well, how about you let me deal with that and if they don't accept 320 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:12.359 me, and they kicked me out because I don't know if you've ever work 321 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:18.200 with SLOP, there's a lot of MAILSOP operators that that can't work well with 322 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.599 other teams and Seals and SF. So I said that why don't you let 323 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:26.400 me see if they do accept me. If they do, then and if 324 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:27.519 they don't, they kicked me out. You know, the funny thing is 325 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:33.680 is they accepted me way better than Silent did that. So what was you 326 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:38.160 You kind of explained that you were kind of cooling your heels and headquarters just 327 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.720 waiting for that opportunity to get over there when you saw it jumped on it. 328 00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:45.839 What was it like when you arrived? I mean where where? What? 329 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:48.359 Uh? If you could tell us like what fob and I think you 330 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:51.960 told us what team you were with, like where where you arrived and where 331 00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:56.319 the mission? What the mission was when you got there. Well, so 332 00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:00.480 to begin with, I wasn't I wasn't want you to just in wait. 333 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:04.319 I was very go get her and I wasn't just gonna sit on the headquarters. 334 00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:07.839 I knew my head that the minute I got on country, I was 335 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:11.119 gonna find a way out. So once I got there, I started establishing 336 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:14.799 my my point of context and I started, you know, just just mingling, 337 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:18.880 just talking to people. There was this this star major that actually the 338 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.079 AOB sar major. I forgot how we came about. We were talking and 339 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:26.039 we were in a big meeting with everybody, and he was talking about doing 340 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:36.559 a black syop. The hell it's really rarely done where where where it's not 341 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:42.799 apparent that it's coming from America exactly. Yeah, yeah there, because most 342 00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:48.680 of the time slap is all truth is quite stop or gray. Soop, 343 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:51.319 we're not telling you what it is, but we're not telling you somebody else. 344 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:55.920 And then you have your deception. Your deception campaigns are so rarely happening, 345 00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:59.440 but one was coming up that they were trying to put something together talk 346 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.200 about it was just kind of bogus, but whatever it was, we're gonna 347 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:07.319 drop some pair of shotes with with dry eyes and to try and make it 348 00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:10.799 look like they believed there was these ghost soldiers going around. We're gonna try 349 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:12.359 to influence them and get that going and try to get you know, scare 350 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.519 going on there. And they have no current jump masters right now, they're 351 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:21.839 at the AOB and I was current qualified jump master and and stat a claiming 352 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:23.920 jump master, and so I actually started taking them the whole mission by myself 353 00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:27.119 and setting it up, and we were working with the riggers and all these 354 00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:30.079 different stuff. And when that SAR Major, the AOBSR Major saw that, 355 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:34.160 and E five back then I was in E five, was willing to take 356 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:37.720 on that. And and a female he started seeing potential in other places and 357 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.880 started wanting to take me out with the commandos because we were I was in 358 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.880 Candahart out of Camp Brown as the headquarters, a UH as the headquarters, 359 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.759 and since right there at the commando units there, they started talking about taking 360 00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:56.720 me with them. So once my higher up headquarters heard that, they they 361 00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:00.599 said they they felt tension on the other side that they're gonna lose me one 362 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.400 way or another. They're gonna lose me to the commandos and working that mission, 363 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.079 or they're gonna find a place for me and a team. So when 364 00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:11.000 the opportunity came that a team leader would need to be replaced, command felt 365 00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:14.839 it better to at least shoose me that way instead of lose me to the 366 00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:18.880 to the s F guys and these news. As I have commands, I 367 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:25.039 have to ask Melissa, did this Ghost Soldiers mission ever happen? It? 368 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:27.440 Did it? It's so hard to get this deception mission going, but too 369 00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.200 many, too many things we're gonna go wrong with it. You know, 370 00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:34.839 who's gonna unbuckle it just you know, days and days of brainstorming and who's 371 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.359 gonna unbuckle the stuff, and who's gonna retrieve the shoots or we wanted to 372 00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:42.839 release these shoots and it just it wasn't worth putting everything into it. But 373 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:47.440 it got me out there, got me in with the with the people that 374 00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:52.200 needed to mingle with and uh, force my hand on my side because when 375 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:56.039 we're when we go to kind of like how you guys do your alb is 376 00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:59.359 pretty close and it was in campground right if you were there, and then 377 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:03.240 you spread out there. But first SIOP one whole company goes into country and 378 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.920 that company headquarters is in Bogram and then all the rest of the teams, 379 00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:11.880 the detachment spread out through the throughout the rest of the place. And then 380 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:17.119 they they pushed the teams off to the their their supporting units, you know, 381 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:21.240 to the seals and the O d as. So usually one ODA takes 382 00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:23.880 a two or three man team with them for SIOP and you know, you're 383 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:29.200 my headquarters is ally in Bogorum, and then the whole sit rep just runs 384 00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:33.799 up. So and SO was getting up and it came down and they got 385 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.519 to find a place for me. I want to ask the like what was 386 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.640 it like when you got down there working with the ODA, Like where did 387 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.400 you go? What was the mission when you got there? So? Three 388 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.440 one, three four when I got down to them, was working via SO 389 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:53.240 and what had when I got with them, they had just lost two of 390 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:56.960 their guys in the and because they got there and within three weeks, three 391 00:26:57.000 --> 00:27:00.319 weeks of the being in country, they lost their alpha and their delta in 392 00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:07.359 one blast, and the the team took it really hard. And that's when 393 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:11.599 that whole replacing of my team leader had to or the SYLE team that had 394 00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.279 to be helping because he was bumping heads or rubbing wrong or you know, 395 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:22.240 not being cognizant of the way the team was feeling and being very giddy. 396 00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:25.680 And hey, guys, when the team is going through the big loss, 397 00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:29.400 they lost their their command and their delta, and you know, back then, 398 00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:32.920 they're they're always hurting, You're always hearing from medics. And they only 399 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.759 had one medic and one officer. So they took the adelta from the ao 400 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:42.440 B and the the warrant took over as a team. So when I got 401 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.680 to them, they already didn't like the theyy kind of were having a problem 402 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:48.440 with SYO. They were in a real big rout because they had lost to 403 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:55.279 their guys, their junior Brav got pretty tore up to It was a slow 404 00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:59.319 start when I got there, and I just I just knew I had with 405 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:02.039 everything. I just you know, I had to just carry my own weight 406 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:06.680 and let the uh let their minds make them in their own minds, you 407 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:08.839 know, whether I'm an asset to the team or am I just a big 408 00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:18.480 you know, burden, and I mean as a tactical syop uh soldier. 409 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.079 What what was your part like, how did you integrate with that ODA and 410 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:26.880 how did you help them, you know, accomplish their mission. So INSIP 411 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:30.480 we always say, you know, we're all about influencing and influence the enemy 412 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.359 to do this, or influence the local populace. But the first person, 413 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:37.319 the first thing you have to influence is a team you're attacking with. You 414 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:40.559 have to be able to sell yourself to them and be able to get you 415 00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:42.000 know, to work with them. If you can't do that, then you're 416 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.039 not going to get your job done as good. Yes, there's time when 417 00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:49.039 you can just try to just be on your own or run your own missions, 418 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:52.319 but it's not gonna be as successful your when you have your CAA or 419 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:56.079 SIP and your sset working together, just when you have the best outcome. 420 00:28:56.279 --> 00:29:00.279 So I went there and I did it real quick. I knew it was 421 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.759 gonna be a little weird because I never saying females there, But I was 422 00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:07.200 just gonna just, I don't know, just be myself and just stick to 423 00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:11.480 my guns and just I went there and gave me a brief, a real 424 00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:14.440 quick, down dirty brief, what I could, what I could bring to 425 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.480 the team, what we can do, and I guess we just went from 426 00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:22.119 there. And I mean, as that relationship started to develop, I mean, 427 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:29.039 how how did it work? It worked? It worked good because you 428 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:33.599 know, in Afghanistan it's even more so than Iraq, where the women are 429 00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:40.880 untouchable target audience, everything from medical treatment to you know, doing the clearing 430 00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:42.319 the village. You can't go into the females. You can't go in there. 431 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.839 You know, they'll hid all the females in one room and they say 432 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:47.599 you can't go in there as females, but you don't know what else is 433 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:52.480 in there. So I came with that. I came with the the benefit 434 00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:56.559 of being a female and be able to touch that target audience inside version, 435 00:29:56.599 --> 00:29:59.519 as well as being able to go in there and sell myself and tell that 436 00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:00.599 would be a hit. I could search these people. I can search that 437 00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.599 part of the building. I'm small, I can fit in goat tunnels. 438 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:10.160 I've been inside of goat pens looking for weapons. And then on top of 439 00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:12.160 that, I I might not be physically fit. Now I'm a little out 440 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:15.720 of shape, but back then I was I can hold my own. So 441 00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:22.279 I, you know, told them all the different stuff. Like with any 442 00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:23.839 job you don't know you start, you have to find your niche and you 443 00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.839 had to find a way to do it. But I just took it day 444 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:33.200 at a time. How did the psyop piece or or did it I mean 445 00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:40.759 integrate with with the ODA mission on this particular tour well, VSO is a 446 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:45.279 real big thing for us out because we're living living amongst the same with the 447 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:48.880 ODA. That's if guys, we're living amongst the populus. You got to 448 00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:52.400 deal with the mulah. You got to be able to know their culture. 449 00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:55.640 You got to be able to uh know how to who to influence, who 450 00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:57.799 are the influencers, how to influence the now, what mechanism to use. 451 00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.799 So I brought that to the team. We worked a lot with the mulahs. 452 00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:04.799 We work a lot with the who was really big on female schools. 453 00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:07.759 We didn't have a we had a civil fairs team there near the end, 454 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:12.039 but the beginning we didn't. So I kind of took on the civil fairs 455 00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:15.599 in my first rotation, the civil affairs position as well as the style and 456 00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:21.200 we did a lot of the medical stuff because the Deltas and all of them. 457 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:26.200 Once once that team took that hit, they kind of backed off their 458 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:32.920 offensive and we're more more stagnant. They took the VSO turned into VSP instead, 459 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:34.400 and I think that's when we had the seals. They pushed the seal 460 00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:38.599 team or tried it team down to that location and to push up to where 461 00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:44.200 they were going to initiate another VSO because that that SF team not died. 462 00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:48.359 Three one four I was with was supposed to push from Cockris VSP up to 463 00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:52.920 UH and make another VSO up and another town called Shit. I can't remember 464 00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:55.400 what it's called now, it's been on so long, but when they were 465 00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:59.200 moving up there, that's where they hit those IDs. And after that they 466 00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:02.480 didn't make that push up there, so they just kind of stayed stagnant there 467 00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:07.279 in that VSP. Well, they brought a seal team, tried a team 468 00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:10.480 down to go run that mission. If anybody's worked with Trident, they're not 469 00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:20.279 meant to do FID missions. They're just not partially aware or capable or maturity 470 00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:24.400 levels so low that it just was a bad mix about to happen. But 471 00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:29.279 they pushed the team down to our VSP. We dealt with seals there at 472 00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:34.960 the ODA, a lot of tag gay personalities about to kill each other until 473 00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:38.480 they pushed out, and so I just I don't know, it was a 474 00:32:38.599 --> 00:32:44.359 slower mission. My first rotation at three one, three four one was more 475 00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:46.960 like a fit should be, not not much offensive. We worked with the 476 00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:53.079 Mullah at times. We worked with the Dorbashan town that was there village so 477 00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:58.680 well that the you know I've got I got to go on with the Mullah's 478 00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:00.519 wives. I would make food with them, I'd hold the babies, and 479 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:05.039 I'd come out and sit and talk with the Mullah. So I kind of 480 00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:07.720 played both sides, and it really helped out because with the district governor, 481 00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:09.799 I did the same thing. I went and talked with his wives, his 482 00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:15.119 children, and then I'd go and sit with the guys and talk that rauh. 483 00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:17.680 So I got to go both ways. I put on my burka and 484 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:22.559 I take it off and I was good. So that it sounds like that 485 00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:25.680 VSO mission pretty much went the way it was supposed to go, you know, 486 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:31.440 thankfully. Yeah, and then return back to the United States at the 487 00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:37.039 end of that rotation and does this do you maintain this position as tactical team 488 00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:39.319 leader? I mean, is that something they keep you in now that you're 489 00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:46.200 there? I know. I came right back and right when I got off 490 00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:47.920 the bus, they said, hey, we're not even gonna give you an 491 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:51.799 SR saying you're out there. You're not going to get an award for being 492 00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:52.640 out there, said, don't give a fuck, show your ward up your 493 00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:54.519 ass. How did you go out there for an award? I went out 494 00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:59.240 for the experience, so I'm gonna I don't care about no award. In 495 00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:01.880 fact, the ODA her giving multiple awards because I helped deliver three babies out 496 00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:07.360 there with the Delta, and so I didn't care about an award. But 497 00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:10.679 I guess they ended up coming through and giving somebody fought for it or something 498 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:14.360 like that, and I got an award. But the minute I got back, 499 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:17.000 they threw me to the training room again. Every time it was the 500 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.639 same thing. They I was up in the training room with the bitch like 501 00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:22.400 the I don't know if I can say that I was up in the training 502 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:28.280 room doing that admin work, which I am not good at. Well, 503 00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:32.760 you know, all the restrooms stay down there. The next rotation when they 504 00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:37.079 go out to go train with the odas. You know, right before you 505 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.400 go out, you go PMT premission training at Fort Bliss, where it's my 506 00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:45.239 hometown. I fought real hard to try to get on it because I knew 507 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:47.400 I was gonna get on a team. There was no way I was gonna 508 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:53.119 do a rotation in the headquarters after having the team, So I was trying 509 00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:55.000 to get a PMT, but they were like, no, you're not gonna 510 00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.159 get a pm You're not gonna do premission training. All the teams went out 511 00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:01.239 and did pre mission train with ODAS, and I stayed there and when we 512 00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:04.280 came back, I found a way to get on a team again, and 513 00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:07.679 I went back out without doing premission training. The way it is, you 514 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:10.559 just got to accept the good with the bad. So you had it was 515 00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:15.760 again, you know, by hooking by crook, making your way to an 516 00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:20.800 ODA. Yeah, it's always been. I've always been fighting with stop and 517 00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:23.800 the whole. You know, it's just because you don't have a swinging dick, 518 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:25.599 you can't do it. I'm like, hey, half these guys, 519 00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:32.159 some of these I'm saying some of them are real big brainers, but not 520 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:35.960 as much physical And there's some great ones. There's bad ones, you know, 521 00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:38.039 just like the odias are the same, right, steels are the same 522 00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:42.960 everybody. But I was like, if I can't cut it, then I 523 00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:46.039 got it. But if I'm cutting the bed in some of these guys just 524 00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:50.960 because I have a slit instead of what you know, what's the deal? 525 00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:53.280 And said, well the whole death thing, you know, I was like, 526 00:35:54.239 --> 00:36:01.760 I'd be the same, I'll be twice as much sometimes shit. So 527 00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:07.239 the second deployment, which ODA did you get sent to? What base was 528 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:14.719 this on? This time? So the second rotation in twenty and eleven and 529 00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:19.119 twelve, I went with three four three four And that's when you guys have 530 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:23.199 just started the fourth the fourth battalions. So I went out there with them. 531 00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:27.119 A lot of them were younger and it was their first rotation. But 532 00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:30.519 right, you know, I those guys like my brothers from another mother, 533 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:36.280 and I have some nostalgic. Yeah, I'm super nostalgic about that rotation. 534 00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:39.199 I'm you know, it was a lot rougher rotation. We have a lot 535 00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:45.519 more ticks, a lot more aggressiveness. We had the teams, aren't that 536 00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:50.199 got replaced and put into the to this ODA and he was the teams aren't 537 00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:53.679 that the teams aren't that came in was a very highly decorated third group guy 538 00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:59.920 master An Paul Feisel, and he just took this team to another level and 539 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:05.719 had a great time with them. And so you said that this this mission 540 00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:08.880 or this this deployment was quite different than your first. Could you tell us 541 00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.760 a little bit about like how the mission differed, how the how the enemy 542 00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:21.760 situation differed. So the first the first rotation was a lot slower. We 543 00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:24.599 did a lot of more medcaps. I've took in all of the females and 544 00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:28.559 we gain a lot of information from them. We had delivered babies, We 545 00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:30.800 took care of kids that got brown up. I found a lot of ways 546 00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:39.159 to use Taliban's mistakes to you know, to influence the local populist and anytime 547 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:43.119 they hurt somebody, they you know, blew a kid up, they blew 548 00:37:43.239 --> 00:37:45.599 up this pool. I either made radio broadcasts at the time. That's one 549 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:50.760 of the mess we were using because we realized they Afghans couldn't read well and 550 00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:54.280 they weren't caring about the leaflets. So we knew that at the time Taliban 551 00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:59.079 had tooken a music so we decided to bring uh radios in a box with 552 00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:00.840 kymrias I don't know if heard about them, so raved in the box and 553 00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:05.800 you got a you know, ten minute quick course on it how to set 554 00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:07.719 it up. I got electricuted multiple times with the damn antenna's and set up 555 00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:12.639 an antenna and a radio station, radio station and my living hoots and we 556 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:16.360 ran down you know music. We got music from your your your class one 557 00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:20.800 terps, your locals, and we would broadcast music. And in between it 558 00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:25.039 we broadcast uh, you know, commercials, propaganda, whatever you want to 559 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:29.480 call it at the time style, we broadcast our messages. I would do 560 00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:36.400 interviews with the locals. I'd interview the the Afghan National Army, the A 561 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.440 and P, your local police, your ALP, and I interviewed and I 562 00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:43.920 had this program going kind of saying, let's get to know your your local 563 00:38:44.039 --> 00:38:46.320 police, so that the people kind of felt, you know, connected, 564 00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:50.960 to make that connection. And most of my time was doing interviews, delivery 565 00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:52.920 and babies, taking care of kids, plugging you know, injuries, taking 566 00:38:52.960 --> 00:39:00.639 pictures and making products from Taliban's mistakes and creating a South Tower and running you 567 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:06.159 know, hotlines missions because even though they don't have toilet paper or whatever. 568 00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:08.079 They still always have cell phones out there as long as you put up a 569 00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:10.880 south tower and then you can get them connected. And we run the tip 570 00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:14.960 lines and we actually got quite a bit of good hits with the tip lines. 571 00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:20.079 And in siy Up, it's hard to measure your success. It's almost 572 00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:23.800 unmeasurable, right because everybody influences something, so you can't stay this was influence. 573 00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:28.000 Because what I did, you could try to piece the puzzle together and 574 00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:31.159 be like, well, because of these we call them Moe's measure of effectness. 575 00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:36.039 I think my product helped do this, but in reality, you can't 576 00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:39.079 save black and white, that is because of what you did. But we 577 00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:45.679 did have some really good Mois measure of effectlessness when we had our south tower 578 00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:50.519 blown up multiple times because the locals were calling into many tips and so Taliban 579 00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:52.800 got real pissed off and was going up the tower and they go fix it 580 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:54.880 and they blow it up and we put guards out there and then they blow 581 00:39:54.920 --> 00:40:00.840 it up again. So it was it was ideal perfect, like the Vita, 582 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:04.239 like the VSO or FID should happened, we would train. I trained 583 00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:08.079 the locals there. The your O DA trained them the eighteen Bravo trained the 584 00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:14.320 the the police and all that especial the way that one run the next one 585 00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:17.079 was a lot more offensive, more offensive. We were you know, constantly 586 00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:22.000 going out and we're doing uh, you know, raids or caught off level 587 00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:27.079 two's level kind of level zeros. It was a lot different, and it 588 00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:30.519 was good to see both sides. On one side delivered babies on the next 589 00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:35.760 side where you know, uh, delivering different mission. We had a lot 590 00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:37.280 more casualties on the second one too, with all this while I was there. 591 00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:42.239 So if if you're okay, I mean, can you tell us a 592 00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:45.920 little bit about some of those like close calls and firefights that maybe you guys 593 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:52.800 got into. Yeah, yeah, no problem. So, uh we you 594 00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:54.599 know, IDs are everywhere. We my first one too. The big difference 595 00:40:54.679 --> 00:40:58.280 was we were in vehicles a lot l A t v s, your uh, 596 00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:04.760 your rg's, your antvs. My second one was all on foot because 597 00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.400 everything was you couldn't get down the roads, it just blow you up. 598 00:41:07.480 --> 00:41:10.159 So this team started just had us walking all the time, you know, 599 00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:15.800 twelve k's and making movements all around through our when we were just present controls 600 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:22.679 everywhere on foot, we uh, because you're on foot more often you're likely 601 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:25.280 to hit an id and not survive it because compared to the vehicles. You 602 00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:29.800 know, it's just the way this on one of them we had already, 603 00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:32.400 it was just a bloody week. Kid. A lot of the Afghan kids 604 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:37.159 would come to me because I was the the faith in our little veso. 605 00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:42.960 I was brown like then they thought all was Afghany I spoke posh to you. 606 00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:45.079 I was a female. And then I was working in the civil Fairs 607 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:47.400 mission. We had no civil a fairs team there, so I ran all 608 00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:51.960 the all the humanitarian aid. I would collect all this stuff and I give 609 00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:53.519 out all the beans and rice and socks for the kids. And I had 610 00:41:53.559 --> 00:42:00.840 a school program going on because our thought was Taliban is recruiting these young ten 611 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:05.280 eleven, twelve year old males because they're ignorant, just like a gang, 612 00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:07.199 just like here in the United States, they recruit the gang members recruit young 613 00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:14.480 kids because they're naive, they're malleable, they their their nai Yeah, they're 614 00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.320 just they could take advantage of them. And so we figured if we educate 615 00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:22.400 them young, then we won't have to fight them later. So we started 616 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.800 doing school in the radio school in the box, I would give up. 617 00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:29.079 We went all the way up to bogroom. They created a curriculum and we 618 00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:34.480 give up these educational books and we'd run teaching programs on the radio, and 619 00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:37.360 I'd give out radios that sometimes, yes, they would use for bombs, 620 00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:43.159 but you win some, you lose some. And so the kids would come 621 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:45.760 to the to the base looking for me, and you know, they would 622 00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:49.960 say, my name is their little Afghan accent. And when they came visiting 623 00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:52.400 that week, they got blown up to the kids that we usually would come 624 00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:57.639 and I went and took We've got pictures of them so we can make products 625 00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:01.360 and use it to help influence them. And then the following mission a couple 626 00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:06.360 of days later, I was supposed to be on that truck with the Afghan 627 00:43:06.519 --> 00:43:08.599 police, but my leadership had come in so I got pulled off of it 628 00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:12.559 and so I could take care of them. And then that truck, you 629 00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.119 know, they are very few times actually used the vehicles they blew up. 630 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:19.519 I had my radio speaker in there that somehow managed to make it through, 631 00:43:19.559 --> 00:43:22.880 but it had body parts on it and chunks. We went back and retrieved 632 00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:24.840 the bodies of the Afghans I had. In fact, I still have a 633 00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:30.639 picture where the two the eighteen Delta and the Charlie were in the back of 634 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:35.000 this ranger and right before they told him, hey, don't go down that 635 00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:37.760 route, it's got Id's, the Afghan would have listened, so they just 636 00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:42.639 jumped out the back and they went down ten feet more and blew themselves up. 637 00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:45.639 So I have pictures of them in the back when they were leaving, 638 00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:47.000 and I was like, well, let's see that would have been in the 639 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:51.079 middle of the inside, oh man. But so that the following day we 640 00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:55.519 had another mission and we went back that same route and missed Id's the whole 641 00:43:55.519 --> 00:44:00.360 way. There. We're gonna set up a checkpoint for the Afghan leaves, 642 00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:05.320 and we were up in the top and separating some stuff, and we had 643 00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:09.079 at the time, because everybody was spread so thin, they started touching. 644 00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:15.519 UH. A platoon of infantry guys to to the SFUH teams, I don't 645 00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:17.559 know if you remember, and they had we had a tenth Mountain platune out 646 00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:21.239 there with us. And they're pretty young guys, really, you know, 647 00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:25.079 motivating and UH and good. They were physically fit, and we had took 648 00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:29.639 them out on this mission and took a couple of the eleven Charlies and I 649 00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:31.280 think the eleven Charlies that might have been their second mission ever with us. 650 00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:36.360 And one of the eleven Charlies that I had ridden with, he was a 651 00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:38.079 gun guy. When he got out, he just they were standing up these 652 00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:43.639 has goes and he just stepped on I D and UH turned into a bag 653 00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:46.960 of bones and gave the Another younger kid ended up with a triple MPT, 654 00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:51.960 and me and the Delta worked on them. We ran up there on the 655 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:53.360 it was on the hill souse. They started realizing we would take the high 656 00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:57.000 ground right, We'd always take the high ground, We'd make our checkpoints up 657 00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.239 there, we'd take it. And so they just started really the whole top 658 00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:02.239 of the mountains and the hills with I DS and that's what they did. 659 00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:07.159 And we hit uh the I D and if he had probably one of five 660 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:09.320 round in it, because they caused a lot of damage. One k I 661 00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:15.400 A I think like three wounded and UH trip on PT and the Delta that 662 00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:16.480 was up there, and I wuld start working with the Delta to help him. 663 00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:22.239 Uh fax the triple MPT and got them out so that was. It 664 00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:23.880 was a really long day because then after that we had a clear We found 665 00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:29.440 seven more I d s. The eleven Charlie found them all. We were 666 00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:31.079 clearing him, and then we had it ride back the same way that we 667 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:35.719 knew that the Afghan ranger was still there where we had to treat the dead 668 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:39.320 bodies. And on the way back, I took the gun because there was 669 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:43.400 no more gun around on our vehicle. He was in a body bag and 670 00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:46.239 we had and then the uh yeah, so it was actually only two of 671 00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:50.920 us in r G, the driver and my FET three and then the TC. 672 00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:55.079 So I took the gun and the the eleven Charlie and the dog handler 673 00:45:55.159 --> 00:46:00.599 were walking and the dog sat on the tripper night the other one it just 674 00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:05.360 didn't go all the way and so we met back to the dog and the 675 00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:08.719 handler with him. It was just a really long, long, long week 676 00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:14.159 and it was it ended up being on October thirteenth, Friday the thirteenth, 677 00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:20.559 So it just was it sounds like a nightmare. Yeah, we had a 678 00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:22.559 couple more, but there's a couple thatsound on out my mind, but those 679 00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:30.559 two that one in December third was the hard ones, And I mean, 680 00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:35.159 how did the rest of the deployment go like after after that? I mean, 681 00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:37.519 do you guys have to I know, it's always difficult to pick up 682 00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:40.920 after you take casualties like that and keep going and driving through the mission. 683 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:47.239 It's pretty rough. Yeah. The team Stargant was real smart. He had 684 00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:52.480 been on I think thirteen rotations or whatever. He had two silver stars, 685 00:46:52.519 --> 00:46:54.760 and he knew, he understood, he'd been through casualty before, and he 686 00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:59.280 understood that you couldn't let us take a break. So even though we came 687 00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:01.079 back and we you know, had all that stuff and we had people in 688 00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:04.440 our ice cool because we were living out in the middle of nowhere, you 689 00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:07.480 don't have nothing, you don't have no no uh. We had one little 690 00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:12.159 ice cool uh cooling trailer and that's where we put the bodies at. But 691 00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:14.519 he knew instantly to get right back out. So the next day we were 692 00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:16.400 out on missions. You just kept let people sit and think about it. 693 00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:21.199 We just jumped right back into missions. The ones that got Meta backed, 694 00:47:21.559 --> 00:47:24.880 and one of the one of the eleven Bravos that got Meta backed, ended 695 00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:29.360 up real bad. He he tried to commit suicide a couple of times because 696 00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:34.599 he just couldn't cope. I think he didn't get to cope with us. 697 00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:36.840 He didn't get to heal with us there. And they brought him back and 698 00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:40.960 he said in Kandahar and you know, he had fragmentation of his buddy that 699 00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:44.480 had died all in his body too, So it just kind of him real 700 00:47:44.559 --> 00:47:47.239 hard and compared to us, we just get got right back on the horse 701 00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:53.119 and did mission after mission, and it helped us keep going. We didn't 702 00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:59.440 we didn't stay on it. We did a lot of cross cross training, 703 00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:00.559 so that helped that lie I worked with. They teamed out to a lot. 704 00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:04.239 I got to do a lot of hands on stuff. I would teach 705 00:48:04.280 --> 00:48:07.360 them how to do the the messaging. That was a half the time. 706 00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:12.079 They didn't know what I was doing because it's hard to explain style, but 707 00:48:12.880 --> 00:48:16.159 they knew that I I carry my own weight and I'd also help them on 708 00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:20.440 whatever I could. On that side. I wasn't afraid of you know, 709 00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:23.519 Phil sand bags, burn ship or do whatever everybody else had to do to 710 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:30.159 carry your own weight. So in the end of the day, I mean, 711 00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:32.440 this turned out to be I mean, I'm just thinking back to what 712 00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:37.159 you said earlier that you know, SF ended up accepting you more than Syop 713 00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:43.880 did. And it sounded like you guys came together really well. Yeah they 714 00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:47.280 they didn't see no problem to it once, you know, I lived the 715 00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:51.000 monks them right there. I you know, you ship side by side, 716 00:48:51.039 --> 00:48:52.760 you peece side by side, doesn't matter once you get to that doesn't Bullet 717 00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:55.280 doesn't care what you are. Don't I care of you have a split. 718 00:48:55.400 --> 00:48:59.159 If you don't, it's gonna get you one way another. ID you know, 719 00:48:59.159 --> 00:49:01.039 I make jokes about look they'd be putting my little feet. I was 720 00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:05.079 like, hey, I got the smaller surface space, that's trigger and ID 721 00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:07.039 you got big old King Kong fleet. I was like when we went to 722 00:49:07.159 --> 00:49:10.760 Griffin group, I was only female too, and you know when you're getting 723 00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:15.000 shot out with the paintballs up. I picked the biggest SF guys, big 724 00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:16.400 old muscular SF guys, and me and you, let's be on team. 725 00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:20.360 Because guess what, he's such a big target man. I could just run 726 00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:23.960 aside him and I wouldn't get So you just gotta make fun of with the 727 00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:28.039 stuff that's there and playpaper sits or rocks se he was gonna step on the 728 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.320 next I d and just kind of he said, blackhearted. But yeah, 729 00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:36.400 these guys quite a bit of mom my eye. I see him as a 730 00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:38.880 brother from another mother. They you know, the team sergeant, you know 731 00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:44.519 saw us all of his his uh you know, his his children, I 732 00:49:44.599 --> 00:49:46.719 guess. And they were willing to give me a because it was a Halo 733 00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:51.000 team. Uh both of them were Halo teams, and this team was, 734 00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:52.559 you know, give me a Halo slot because I'd been trying to go through 735 00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:57.079 Halo school. But Slop wasn't never gonna let you do anything because I just 736 00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:00.559 slaps. Mentality was if it's not soop for all of and then you're not 737 00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:04.039 going to it because they have such a big chip on their shoulder from as 738 00:50:04.039 --> 00:50:08.480 SEF stereotypically half the ciber first and side of leadership that anything that sounds like 739 00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:14.440 it might be as SEF related, if it's you know, offensive into that 740 00:50:14.599 --> 00:50:15.239 defense that they're like, you don't need to go to it. You don't 741 00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:17.920 need to go master gunder course, you don't need to go to life tissue 742 00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:22.679 training. And I had a big fight always with the Ciber of leadership explained 743 00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:23.800 to him like, hey, I can't do side but them. I'm fucking 744 00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:28.400 dead, So why don't you let me live first, you know, let 745 00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:30.480 me go to these things that are keep me alive, because we're going on 746 00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:35.719 the same exact missions side by side as you ODA is. So the only 747 00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:37.320 difference is they got training. They get to go to Master Gunner's course, 748 00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:42.440 they get to do life tasue training. My life tissue training was on ground, 749 00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:44.639 which you know, it's not fair to me and it's not fair to 750 00:50:44.679 --> 00:50:49.000 the caagy that I'm working with. Yeah, did you grow up with brothers? 751 00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:54.400 Yes, and my father only had three well, my father had three 752 00:50:54.400 --> 00:50:57.320 girls, but he was in the military, and I've always been a tomboy. 753 00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:00.639 Yeah. I was just curious because it seems as though you fit in 754 00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:05.400 really well with the guys. Also, like you know, you just you 755 00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:08.559 use humor to just make it an everyday situation. And so I was just 756 00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:15.679 curious if you had brothers and you know, yeah, and every people would 757 00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:17.519 ask me that too, with people that hurt that I'd be the only female 758 00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:21.039 in these in these locations, They're like, why aren't you scared the guys? 759 00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:22.199 Why would I be scared of the guys. I said, you can 760 00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:24.239 be in America and you get raped. I mean, I don't want to 761 00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:27.840 say the R word, but you're like be anywhere, and so they can 762 00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:30.159 happen. It doesn't matter. And they're gonna respect you as much as you 763 00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:37.239 put out there as an effort, not put out. But but they're gonna 764 00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:39.039 respect you if if you just carry your own weight, if you become part 765 00:51:39.079 --> 00:51:43.079 of the team, if you're not, you know, don't let nobody cross 766 00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:45.719 the line, and they can respect you like a sister, like a brother, 767 00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:49.119 like a like a soldier. Yeah. And I never ever had an 768 00:51:49.159 --> 00:51:52.480 incident with the with the DODA. The seals are a little something different. 769 00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:57.280 But and and your convention is you know, worse than your your your sophist. 770 00:51:57.320 --> 00:52:00.400 So if I want to be as a female by myself, I prefer 771 00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:02.840 any day to be with a soft element then with the conventional forces. Yeah. 772 00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:07.719 And so you mentioned that was the third deployment was with the seal teams. 773 00:52:09.559 --> 00:52:13.079 No, it was with that first rotation. Oh, I got you 774 00:52:13.159 --> 00:52:15.679 when they cycled in. Oh okay, I would not I try to get 775 00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:21.519 a third deployment, but they, uh SI got scared, I guess, 776 00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:24.599 or that's what I say. They say they didn't want to female casualty out 777 00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:28.199 there because at the time. They hadn't opened any of the combat arms out 778 00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:34.000 there. They didn't most higher ups didn't realize that I was even out there, 779 00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:36.840 and that wasn't the way they should get shot from blasted with. You 780 00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:38.440 know, all of a sudden you have a femaleki even though it shouldn't matter 781 00:52:38.519 --> 00:52:43.840 what it is, but they uh got it important for me to take a 782 00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:46.079 knee and pull me to the battalion. That's when I decided I wasn't ready 783 00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:50.559 to stop, so I went to a Special Missions Unit instead try to find 784 00:52:50.599 --> 00:52:52.719 some fun over there. Could you tell us a little bit about like what 785 00:52:52.880 --> 00:53:00.039 that process was like? Uh, well, first you assassage just like with 786 00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:04.880 the SFAs for you guys, it's just with the Special missione us a little 787 00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:09.079 longer. Think you guys are twenty days, No twenty nine days something like 788 00:53:09.159 --> 00:53:14.079 that, Yeah, something like that. I start up as eleven days. 789 00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:20.199 Well, your SF your your assessment selection for smith is they give you orders 790 00:53:20.199 --> 00:53:22.960 for forty five days and it depends, you know, sometimes it's less and 791 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:30.280 sometimes it's you know, right around that one. But it was intense. 792 00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:31.880 But I do good at intensity. I do good at that, I do 793 00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:36.800 good at I can rook all day. I've done the Bauton Memorial Death March 794 00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:38.400 multiple times. I've done it with the ruck, so I can do twenty 795 00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:43.920 six plus miles with you know, over forty pounds easy at a shuffle run 796 00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:46.559 rate. So I had experience on that. So I did good. I 797 00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:51.599 feel I did. In fact, that's felt comfortable, you know, and 798 00:53:51.679 --> 00:53:54.480 basic training I always felt comfortable. And then you come out of basic training, 799 00:53:54.519 --> 00:53:57.400 you go to your unit, You're like, what this is not what 800 00:53:57.519 --> 00:54:00.559 I thought it was. I didn't sign up for this. So we the 801 00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:05.199 Special Missions unit too. I they told me that they they'd never taken a 802 00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:10.000 SAP enlisted before in that specific part of this of the Special Missions Unit. 803 00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:15.039 But of course they can't disclose what we're being assessed for which one. So 804 00:54:15.119 --> 00:54:19.760 when I got slotted, I got slotted into the place where they thought that 805 00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:24.000 SIP would fit, and that was in the signal side. And I hate 806 00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:30.519 technology and I was not ready to for SAP. And for my mindset, 807 00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:36.039 I was SIP our best means of getting our product with crosst face to face, 808 00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:39.559 you know, talking to people. And so in my mind that transitioned 809 00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:44.920 over to human not singing, and I fought hard to try transition to that 810 00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:51.440 one, and uh, the process has changed because of the fight that I 811 00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:58.159 made, and they realized that they're interchangeable. But I assessed I got to 812 00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:04.480 accept that. I went at the near the end of ThEC is what I 813 00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:08.280 realized what the job was gonna be. And I don't bought job satisfaction, 814 00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:14.519 not not my pay or permission. And some people are like, hey, 815 00:55:14.599 --> 00:55:15.760 this is it. You get here, you're made it, You're made, 816 00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:20.239 You're gonna make started major, You're gonna be cushed, You're gonna make great 817 00:55:20.360 --> 00:55:22.480 money. And I don't care. If I don't like what I'm doing, 818 00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:25.519 I'm not gonna do it. That's just the way I was raised. So 819 00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:30.039 when I realized it wasn't what I was thinking it was gonna be, I 820 00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:35.920 tried to transition and I had a lot of pushback, but just one thing 821 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:40.000 led to another end. Yeah, but having another female was there too that 822 00:55:40.159 --> 00:55:44.760 was trying the same thing both of us were. She had already been working 823 00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:51.519 with seals before in Iraq. There's a good coffee. What did that breakdown 824 00:55:51.639 --> 00:55:55.159 her? She ended up going in Syria twenty nineteen. Shannon Kent, Me 825 00:55:55.199 --> 00:56:00.480 and her were adamant that we should switch to the other side. And you've 826 00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:09.639 heard her, yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, So what then 827 00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:13.480 I ended up pregnant before her, so she stayed in that route. I 828 00:56:13.599 --> 00:56:16.320 pulled back and then she ended up having her children later. And her story 829 00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:25.480 was as it was, I'm sorry to hear that it happens. So you 830 00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:30.679 were trying to move positions and when you got pregnant, did you at that 831 00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:37.360 point did you decide to leave or what was that progression? Like? Yeah, 832 00:56:37.559 --> 00:56:40.360 I volunteered to go back to my unit because I had talked to the 833 00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:45.159 powers that be and along the route, when I near the end of the 834 00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:46.599 ROTC, I said, hey, I don't think this is one's for me. 835 00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:52.119 Then the command said, well to do that, you'll have to reassess, 836 00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:53.599 and I was like, I don't care. In fact, I did 837 00:56:53.719 --> 00:56:58.559 well in assessment selection. It's the same one. It's just they felt that 838 00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:00.880 they had a half separate ones. You know, Delta has to have theirs, 839 00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:06.199 and then different unit, different entities within that unit wanted to have their 840 00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:10.119 separate ones. They have come to the the thought that it's the same thing, 841 00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:15.320 and now they actually assessed together. But back then to go from one 842 00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:16.880 to the other it was like sign up and c A. They just minds 843 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:20.639 bigger than you. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's wild to me that 844 00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:23.440 you were assessing for a position. They couldn't tell you what that position like 845 00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:28.400 broadly speaking, like human or signals, right, Like that seems like something 846 00:57:28.480 --> 00:57:31.840 you should kind of know going into it. Yeah, I know, you 847 00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:37.239 don't. You just trust the process, right, They say, trust the 848 00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:39.519 process, and you trust it, and then halfway down there they just most 849 00:57:39.599 --> 00:57:45.440 people that did ended up getting assessed with that when they just this far, 850 00:57:45.559 --> 00:57:47.519 I'll just accept it. There was just a few of us, me and 851 00:57:47.599 --> 00:57:52.440 this other female that were outspoken about it and saying like it just makes no 852 00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:55.440 sense. I'm not a signator. I've never touched this. They did mention 853 00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:58.199 like, hey, this is not going to be year round, and I 854 00:57:58.760 --> 00:58:00.679 didn't understand what they meant. So I went to the course and I realized 855 00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:06.719 it and I, yeah, I realized I'd probably end up suff starting a 856 00:58:06.760 --> 00:58:10.920 nine mil if I kept in that position because I didn't like that type of 857 00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:13.719 job. I wanted to be on the ground. I needed to be on 858 00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:16.559 the ground. I needed to go back to Afghanistan, and I wanted to 859 00:58:16.599 --> 00:58:21.239 go back with the humids, so I thought took transition. They accepted it. 860 00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:22.199 I talked to everybody and they said, yeah, that makes sense. 861 00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:23.679 I don't know why you were in that route. Why did you pick it. 862 00:58:23.719 --> 00:58:25.760 I was like, I didn't pick it. You know, no one 863 00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:29.960 tells you. So they said, going to go reassess again, and I 864 00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:34.559 was prepping the reassessed, but I didn't. Me and my husband were married 865 00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:39.920 ten years already and I just had gone off the depot, and within like 866 00:58:40.000 --> 00:58:43.639 two weeks I ended up pregnant, and I couldn't believe that I could have 867 00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:45.360 been. In fact, I was too much pregnant, joking out of airplane 868 00:58:45.400 --> 00:58:49.559 still because I didn't realize that I was just getting lazy. I kept working 869 00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:52.119 harder and harder, prepping for assess to assess, and then all of a 870 00:58:52.119 --> 00:58:58.320 sudden, I popped hot for the wrong thing that would be the time that 871 00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:00.559 taking me have the baby. And I thought my mind, I'd come back 872 00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:04.639 and assessed for something I didn't know. I'd go assess for the female CAG 873 00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:07.079 side because I know they started theirs and they had they had sent me a 874 00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:09.440 lot of letters, but I decided to try this one that I didn't know. 875 00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:15.039 Try try out orange, and I thought i'd come back to brag, 876 00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:20.280 I'd have the baby cut, sling, load and assess. But I didn't 877 00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:22.960 realize that mommy was gonna take over. So yeah, baby, and mommy 878 00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:27.880 took over, and I just couldn't. I couldn't go again. I couldn't 879 00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:32.239 couldn't hear my baby. I mean, it's a it's a great story, 880 00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:37.480 and I mean it's understandable, of course. I mean, you're a full 881 00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:40.480 time soldier and a mother. One of those jobs is a full time job 882 00:59:40.599 --> 00:59:44.960 doing both of them at the same time. I don't know how it's even 883 00:59:45.039 --> 00:59:52.639 possible, but some women do do it. And every role is different. 884 00:59:52.719 --> 00:59:58.159 I mean, you have males that are fathers, but in the early childhood, 885 00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:00.559 the child most like most time, they go to the mother first, 886 01:00:00.679 --> 01:00:07.719 so they're not the same roles. Different, no different than I understand that 887 01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:09.440 I'm not a man in Special Operations. I was a female and I had 888 01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:13.559 to come at it as a female. So I had to sell myself what 889 01:00:14.599 --> 01:00:16.360 I have bringing to the team. You know, I'm small, I can 890 01:00:16.480 --> 01:00:20.280 hide places, I can crawl in tunnels. I can you know, the 891 01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:23.079 big old SF guys kept making it through the damn afghan small doors and here 892 01:00:23.119 --> 01:00:27.159 I am making through all the dang doors and the goat huts and everywhere you 893 01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:34.400 can think of. So and then I use the female portion to influence some 894 01:00:35.320 --> 01:00:37.519 actors at times. You know, when we beat in firefights, we go 895 01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:39.440 to the local, to the next village and let them know, hey, 896 01:00:40.239 --> 01:00:43.400 I take off my head and I show them a female. I play the 897 01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:45.280 whole females like, hey, they just hit us, and then all of 898 01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:46.880 a sudden they run from us. And then we start telling the alders that 899 01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:52.719 these fighters are running from a female when she's coming to bring the humanitarian EIGG 900 01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:57.519 because I set up to drop some humanitarian aid from the sky and it makes 901 01:00:57.559 --> 01:01:00.719 them look really bad. And instantly you know, the word good to them 902 01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:01.760 because they're all connected, they all know each other. So then they let 903 01:01:01.960 --> 01:01:06.079 know that this females making fun of them because they're running from a female. 904 01:01:06.119 --> 01:01:08.000 They can't even find a female in the US forces. And man, they 905 01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:12.079 hit us hard again because you can't ever pin them down. They just keep 906 01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:14.599 running, you know, So we're trying to find a way to piss them 907 01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:16.719 off, poke the hornet horn sniffs and make them stand fight, and they 908 01:01:16.760 --> 01:01:23.239 did it work. So after the birth of your child, and is this 909 01:01:23.320 --> 01:01:27.199 about the time that you start thinking about retirement? I mean, how how 910 01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:31.119 does it uh, how does it roll after this? No, at the 911 01:01:31.159 --> 01:01:35.800 time, I wasn't thinking retirement because I was a career. I thought when 912 01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:37.320 I first joined that I was going to be into the day they kicked me 913 01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:43.159 out. And you know, thirty years in, I loved it and I 914 01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:45.719 just was not even never thought that, you know, your hormones were gonna 915 01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:49.400 switch like that. So I still came right back on it. I was, 916 01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:52.639 you know, started rocking and running real quick. And it was just 917 01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:55.800 I was conflicted all the time. I take off to work and then my 918 01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:59.320 husband was trying to be a stay at home dad. But it's a whole 919 01:01:59.360 --> 01:02:01.760 different thing. You know, men short circuit when they hear babies crying. 920 01:02:01.800 --> 01:02:05.400 That's why it's deer school. They have the baby crying. Right. I 921 01:02:05.480 --> 01:02:07.559 was the only see you go intier school. And it didn't bother me one 922 01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:09.159 bit. I slept right through it. But the men when they came out, 923 01:02:09.159 --> 01:02:12.360 they were like, like, I couldn't take it. I was gonna 924 01:02:12.400 --> 01:02:16.519 kill myself as the baby crying, right, It's just something different. So 925 01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:21.400 it was. I started thinking about it back then, but I knew that 926 01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:25.719 in file I can go to a regional side, the cush side. I 927 01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:30.400 went to a regional battalions there, tactical and just like what you guys do 928 01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:32.960 instead of your combat deployments, you do adjay set or you go out. 929 01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:36.559 How different is your draw from one to the other. You know you can 930 01:02:36.599 --> 01:02:38.880 bring your family. I mean, you can't bring your family, but they 931 01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:42.760 can't stop your family from going to Ecuador or something. So that's what we 932 01:02:43.039 --> 01:02:45.320 intended to do. I was gonna take an El Salvador mission. My family 933 01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:51.760 was gonna follow me. But one thing led to another. I was gonna 934 01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:57.159 get accepted to one of my three four three four friends, the eleven Charlie 935 01:02:58.280 --> 01:03:00.239 had gotten over to the Black Daggers, and I liked the skydive and I 936 01:03:00.320 --> 01:03:04.519 love jumping, and I was a jump master, and he was recruiting me 937 01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:06.800 to go over there. I sub in my packet. I got accepted over 938 01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:10.599 there, and I was gonna go represent Sigh up in Black Daggers. And 939 01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:15.000 that was the method of me staying, being able to stay here in States 940 01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:17.840 and stay with my family and take them with me traveling. And they were 941 01:03:17.880 --> 01:03:21.599 all for it, but and my command was for it. But once the 942 01:03:21.880 --> 01:03:25.360 higher group command heard about it, you know, they sigh up is the 943 01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:29.440 worst our own worst enemy, and they saw to it that that was going 944 01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:32.599 to happen. They blocked me from doing it. They used to sock first 945 01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:36.400 sergeant, start major. They all got involved in it, and it just 946 01:03:37.599 --> 01:03:38.719 sigh up once they make up their mind. They said I said so. 947 01:03:38.840 --> 01:03:43.079 Because I said so, it's dick measuring contests again. And there was no 948 01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:45.840 way I was going to win that one. And they just sent me to 949 01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:49.800 the schoolhouse instead. And they after all the fighting I did, I used 950 01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:52.559 always fight everywhere, they opened up a position for sign up there, but 951 01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:57.960 another buddy of mine ended up taking it, but I lost that opportunity. 952 01:03:58.480 --> 01:04:01.400 I got a sour taste after that in this schoolhouse and decide to leave. 953 01:04:01.639 --> 01:04:06.920 Yeah. Why why in the hell would SSYOP not want a accomplished female soldier 954 01:04:08.119 --> 01:04:11.840 representing them because the black daggers for folks out there listening. I mean, 955 01:04:11.920 --> 01:04:16.039 that's like part of the public public relations, the outward facing soft recruitment that 956 01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:19.639 these people go and parachute into football stadiums and stuff like that. I don't 957 01:04:19.719 --> 01:04:27.360 understand why they wouldn't want someone like you out there representing the force. I 958 01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:30.239 didn't understand it there. That's why I find it so hard. If I'm 959 01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:32.480 a person that common sense. If I if there's a real, real reason, 960 01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:34.559 you tell me, like, well we need here, you need to 961 01:04:34.599 --> 01:04:38.039 deploy on this one, and I would have accepted it. But there would 962 01:04:38.119 --> 01:04:41.679 it was just because I said, so, we need you in the battalion 963 01:04:41.719 --> 01:04:45.800 instead to go be uh you know, the jump or NFC or some some 964 01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:48.000 silly shit. You know, when you can put anybody there like, well, 965 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:49.800 you're a John Master, you need to be the heir. I was 966 01:04:49.840 --> 01:04:56.280 like, no, you don't. You know, I've always been let me 967 01:04:56.360 --> 01:04:59.480 make my own road, and I end up putting hands the people when they 968 01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:01.719 tell me I can't make my own road. So I but it has with 969 01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:04.360 quite a bit of people there, and I just saw it pass a way 970 01:05:04.400 --> 01:05:10.639 of taking the soul out of you. Sometimes. Yeah, we shoot our 971 01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:13.880 own young, we eat our own young, and you know, and it's 972 01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:15.800 all because we have chips on our shoulders for MESSEF or something. I don't 973 01:05:15.800 --> 01:05:20.360 know what it is, but I haven't figured it out. Uh. And 974 01:05:20.719 --> 01:05:28.599 so that was about the point that you started getting thinking about retirement. Yeah, 975 01:05:28.840 --> 01:05:31.320 I was. I was already over one hundred jumps. My body was 976 01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:35.480 starting to wear out. The kids got broken, started breaking me. I 977 01:05:35.559 --> 01:05:41.199 ended up pregnant my second child. And then because I had been gone over 978 01:05:41.360 --> 01:05:44.320 to the schoolhouse and I was being the SLC instructor and kind of taking it 979 01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:47.400 easy there. And I had been a jump master instructor for used to start 980 01:05:47.480 --> 01:05:51.280 course running through and then then the sig up jump master course. And I 981 01:05:51.400 --> 01:05:56.760 decided when I ended up pregnant that yeah, I was pretty much done. 982 01:05:56.800 --> 01:06:00.320 And I had tore my shoulder and my back was tore up, and you 983 01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:02.679 know, lease into the basics. And they had asked if I was looking 984 01:06:02.719 --> 01:06:06.920 into that I was willing to take a medical retirement, and I said, 985 01:06:06.960 --> 01:06:10.000 sure, why not. I was going to go in and just be a 986 01:06:10.039 --> 01:06:12.280 stay at home mom with my kids. And that's the route I took. 987 01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:18.559 So I just got medically retired instead. And what year was that? In 988 01:06:18.639 --> 01:06:24.320 twenty nineteen? Okay, so in twenty eighteen, seventeen eighteen, I was 989 01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:29.360 at the schoolhouse. So not that not all that well ago, I mean, 990 01:06:29.800 --> 01:06:31.760 tell us, what has life been like post army? What have you 991 01:06:31.880 --> 01:06:38.920 been up to. How you been adjusting to uh this new lifestyle live and 992 01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:42.719 life. It's easier to just because I moved all the way out here in 993 01:06:42.760 --> 01:06:46.320 the middle of nowhere. But stay at home mom is no joke, I 994 01:06:46.440 --> 01:06:50.559 tell you. You know, your school is nothing compared to motherhood on sleep 995 01:06:50.599 --> 01:06:57.119 deprivation and just lack of patience, you know, uh se your school and 996 01:06:57.559 --> 01:07:00.960 being strong, how me be a mom to a very big five year old 997 01:07:00.960 --> 01:07:04.960 boy who is sixty plus pounds that want to be carried everywhere. So it's 998 01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:11.119 a big adjustment. But I have a lot of nostalgia some days, you 999 01:07:11.159 --> 01:07:14.280 know, I just think how different it would have been if I would have 1000 01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:18.079 assessed them gone to another place, or if I would have just been able 1001 01:07:18.119 --> 01:07:24.719 to take another rotation down to Afghanistan. And I know the sf the SFAs 1002 01:07:24.800 --> 01:07:30.519 opened up female to females in two thousand and fifteen, somewhere around somewhere around 1003 01:07:30.519 --> 01:07:32.320 there. Yeah, you know, I was, I was thinking. I 1004 01:07:32.440 --> 01:07:35.480 was thinking about it during this conversation. Melissa. It sounds like you were 1005 01:07:35.599 --> 01:07:43.079 like a very highly motivated, competent soldier that was all about being a soldier 1006 01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:45.760 and doing this job. But you maybe hit it like timing wise, you 1007 01:07:45.880 --> 01:07:50.280 hit it a little bit wrong because of you know, that law not being 1008 01:07:50.360 --> 01:07:56.239 repealed, the federal law that then now permits women into combat positions. And 1009 01:07:56.800 --> 01:08:00.880 it's really unfortunate that you went through. There's like a four selection that we 1010 01:08:00.960 --> 01:08:04.119 all go through, but then there's also this weird informal selection that you also 1011 01:08:04.239 --> 01:08:11.519 had to go through that that's really unfortunate. I think, yeah, yeah, 1012 01:08:11.559 --> 01:08:13.480 and a lot of when that opened up, a lot of the team 1013 01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:15.239 guys from uh well, from three four through four, but there was a 1014 01:08:15.279 --> 01:08:19.079 lot of eighteen sieries that go through the smeth as well, and you go 1015 01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:23.479 side by side with them in the assessment selection, and you know that we 1016 01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:28.359 always talked about how different the assessment selection was from SFAs compared to the Special 1017 01:08:28.439 --> 01:08:32.880 Missions Unit. You know, just the you know, the difference between them 1018 01:08:32.920 --> 01:08:35.800 motivating you and in the Special Missions Unit, it's either you want to be 1019 01:08:35.880 --> 01:08:38.840 there, you don't, You just suck it up, or you don't and 1020 01:08:39.199 --> 01:08:41.439 no one's gonna tell you anything else. It's just a matter of your brain 1021 01:08:41.560 --> 01:08:45.439 pushing you past it. And these guys that would go through that's when I 1022 01:08:45.479 --> 01:08:47.159 first realized me and this other female that we weren't in the right place when 1023 01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:53.039 we assessed with these other guys, and then they got put into the one 1024 01:08:53.119 --> 01:08:55.279 part of the unit and we got put into this other part. And even 1025 01:08:55.279 --> 01:08:58.439 when we were sitting there this classroom, when they're first uh going through TC 1026 01:08:58.560 --> 01:09:00.359 and they first split you up, they tell you where you're going to and 1027 01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:04.039 they read your letter that you're going to fit in. And we're looking at 1028 01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:09.520 these guys that we'd gone through and someone we you know, deployed with someone 1029 01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:12.239 they were on a team and I had worked a mission with them from three 1030 01:09:12.279 --> 01:09:15.560 one three one or something. And then they're like, what are you going 1031 01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:16.079 over there? What's ask down for? And I was like, what are 1032 01:09:16.079 --> 01:09:20.079 you going over there? And we started realizing that we were getting split it 1033 01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:24.199 and these guys were like, shit, you went through all that assessment selection 1034 01:09:24.199 --> 01:09:26.680 and everything. You should you know, you should be in the same route 1035 01:09:26.680 --> 01:09:30.680 over here. And when we were fighting in this other female that ended up 1036 01:09:31.279 --> 01:09:39.000 dying, her husband was actually end up kent. Her husband was in the 1037 01:09:39.119 --> 01:09:44.000 other course. And we had worked with all those guys and they're from like, 1038 01:09:44.079 --> 01:09:45.479 you guys, you guys should have if it would have opened up the 1039 01:09:45.560 --> 01:09:49.279 SFAs a lot earlier for the females, we would have just left dispute and 1040 01:09:49.319 --> 01:09:51.920 gone assessed over there, because he's like, that's what you guys fit in 1041 01:09:53.039 --> 01:09:58.359 for both of us, and we just you know, bad timing wrong two 1042 01:09:58.439 --> 01:10:02.920 years too late, and she ended up running her out and I went mine. 1043 01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:10.880 Wow. I mean, thank you so much for sharing your story with 1044 01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:16.279 us, Melissa. I really enjoyed hearing it. Yeah, sorry if I 1045 01:10:16.319 --> 01:10:19.119 speak fast. No, it was, it was. It was a lot 1046 01:10:19.159 --> 01:10:23.439 of fun, well mostly it was. It was really fun hearing hearing about 1047 01:10:23.479 --> 01:10:27.760 your experiences. I mean there's some some rough patches, you know, terrible 1048 01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:31.000 things that you know you experience out there in combat. But I appreciate you 1049 01:10:31.039 --> 01:10:36.000 sharing that with us as well. And before before we get going tonight, 1050 01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:40.079 I mean, is there anything else, any final thoughts or anything else you 1051 01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:42.720 want to share, anything that that I didn't ask, that you wish? 1052 01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:48.279 I had, no nothing she didn't share. But I always want to say 1053 01:10:48.439 --> 01:10:54.640 you always anybody. Nobody knows style. Nobody is in the army, let 1054 01:10:54.680 --> 01:10:57.159 alone outside of the army. So like they say, oh you were a 1055 01:10:57.199 --> 01:11:00.840 psychologist, you were a but it's hard to explain it for you guys. 1056 01:11:00.880 --> 01:11:03.199 How do you explain when you say, well you were an SSEF, everybody 1057 01:11:03.239 --> 01:11:05.840 just needs to ramble, right, then you go try to explain to them, 1058 01:11:06.279 --> 01:11:10.720 what do you do is eighteen Delta I think eighteen NECO or whatever you 1059 01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:15.239 were. And it's hard to explain it because every mission can dictate every you 1060 01:11:15.319 --> 01:11:18.239 know, what may you can be doing fit the next thing can be, 1061 01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:25.680 you know, uh, something completely different Jason in another country. How do 1062 01:11:25.720 --> 01:11:30.720 you explain yours? Yeah, I mean that's why I think the recruitment videos 1063 01:11:30.800 --> 01:11:34.560 always show, you know, the direct action mission, because people can understand 1064 01:11:34.680 --> 01:11:39.640 kicking in a door and shooting people explaining by with and through and you know, 1065 01:11:39.720 --> 01:11:42.520 we use surrogates to influence and this and that. Like, yeah, 1066 01:11:42.600 --> 01:11:46.039 people, you've already lost the public a lot of times when you start to 1067 01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:48.680 talk about it. It's honestly, I mean, same as recruiting. It's 1068 01:11:48.680 --> 01:11:54.479 honestly why vilicious stability operations you know, weren't used as much as they should 1069 01:11:54.479 --> 01:11:58.079 have been and why they were cut off because it doesn't brief as well as 1070 01:11:58.119 --> 01:12:02.640 stocking bodies. Yeah, even though you think it works, it doesn't breach 1071 01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:05.960 right, You're right, yeah, you know, if there's not a metric 1072 01:12:06.039 --> 01:12:10.079 for it. How can we show Yeah, is it even real? Right? 1073 01:12:11.720 --> 01:12:14.800 Well again, Melissa, thank you? Soo what are you doing? 1074 01:12:14.880 --> 01:12:17.960 Is it real? It's not measurable to see it? At least I built 1075 01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:21.479 ten wells. I built one school. You guys can say, I trained 1076 01:12:21.600 --> 01:12:25.239 as a levembra, I trained this, I'm a teacher. I did this, 1077 01:12:25.479 --> 01:12:30.199 I did this many missions. I captured this high value target. SIP 1078 01:12:30.399 --> 01:12:33.039 is not quite the same, so it's really hard to explain. So what 1079 01:12:33.159 --> 01:12:39.439 do you do? Yeah, well this is this has been terrific, Melissa, 1080 01:12:39.640 --> 01:12:42.479 and thank you for taking some time out, you know while you got 1081 01:12:42.520 --> 01:12:46.399 the kiddos around to speak with us for a little bit tonight. And uh, 1082 01:12:46.800 --> 01:12:49.720 we're we're happy that the that the Internet service held up, you know, 1083 01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:56.079 since you're out in the middle of enjoying your own little piece of paradise. 1084 01:12:56.159 --> 01:13:00.920 Yeah, yeah, the boondocks. Yeah, it's kind of resembles Afghast 1085 01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:03.560 and actually it's mountainous. It's no nowhere. I don't burn my own ship. 1086 01:13:03.640 --> 01:13:13.399 But whatever, Well, all right, so for the folks out there, 1087 01:13:13.560 --> 01:13:16.039 thank you for joining us. And this is Christmas, right, so 1088 01:13:16.199 --> 01:13:20.720 Merry Christmas, Happy kwansa, happy Honkah. I think Honica is over by 1089 01:13:20.720 --> 01:13:27.560 the time they see this, but happy holidays everyone, and we'll see you 1090 01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:30.680 guys. The next episode will be our New Year's wrap up. Yere we 1091 01:13:30.760 --> 01:13:33.039 wrap up. Sounds fun cool, Thank you so much. Listen