What is up, fellow thermonuclear affers. I am Dan fa Valley. Super
excited to be joined by a first time guest, s Barraghiny. He covers
the NBA and does it extremely, extremely well for SDPN Sports, and he
is also the host of the Objective Basketball podcast, which is also over at
SDPN Sports. Follow S Barraghini at just s Barraghini. That's at j U
S T E S B A R A h E N. I a great
follow one of the busiest people in this business right now, based off all
the content he's pumping out. He's been at Summer League. Great job covering
the Raptors, the entire league at large. Like I said, first time
guest, s, how the heck are you doing? I'm good. I'm
glad to not be busy anymore. That's you know that Damian Lillard. You
know all that stuff's gonna go down. You're right, You're right. I'm
gonna jinx it. I'm gonna jinx it right as soon as it happens.
I'm glad to be on the pod. I love the little design that the
aliens. I gotta ask where where that comes from? Like we just wanted
to have like a bunch of little mini Victor wemban yamas on our podcast.
But I'm obsessed with space and I say alien shit all the time, and
so hell yeah, just sort of leaned into it. We had another like
this is recent, but my podcast co host left for vacations. I was
like, you know what, he's gone, I'm gonna make this unilateral decision
to clean the aliens. And uh my wife was like, is that even
on brand? I was like, not really, but I think it looks
fun. I like it. I like it. It adds a cool spin
and yeah, a little tiny Victor Wembanyama is just all over the thing.
I like that. That's Look, that's how we'll spin it now. Is
that's what the aliens are for you survive summer League. You told me five
days. That's a lot. That's a lot of summer League. So it
is. It is. I wouldn't recommend five days for anybody, honestly,
even if you're covering the NBA. I think five days. Salute to the
people. I've seen people who are still there. They're like leaving right now,
like eleven days or twelve days in Vegas. I don't know how you
did it. I don't know how you did it. I commend you.
I salute you for the fact that you got there for twelve days. I
just I could never do it no way. What is it still like after
three days? Like everybody's gone rights three days still or they extended it to
four? Is at just two? I think it's like I think it's like
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then there's people who will linger for the
Sunday and then you're you're off by Monday, for sure, you know what
I mean. But I stayed that extra Monday, and I don't I regret
it. It was tough. Don't do that when it happened to the people
that like just left, were there for the whole thing is dead right Yeah
yeah, well, just like talking to some of the people from from the
Raptors who were supposed to stay there, I believe till yeah, yesterday.
It just it was such a long and enduring process. And I was asked
in them like how do you how do you just stay fresh? How do
you stay into it? And they're like, man, you just gotta keep
your head down, keep working. That's the only way to stay into this.
In Las Vegas, because you could get you could get lost in Las
Vegas. Genuinely, you can lose a sense of reality in that city.
It doesn't it doesn't make a lot of sense, you know. Yeah,
I mean like you can depending on where you are, you're not gonna know
what time it is. There's just very little windows when you're going inside buildings,
depending on what buildings you're in. I will say the watching basketball and
Pacific time greatest thing ever invented. I covered a conference finals in Mountain time,
and I was just like, this is glorious because we're both teams.
Great, yeah, we're both on East Coast time. It's like we understand.
And then when West Coast people come out here. I was in the
BR offices the other day and they were kind of complaining, and I was
like, you guys get to go home, like to your Pacific time zones.
No times like the sweet spot though, where it's like, okay,
they don't start too early, because I get if your West Coast these games
are starting at four, like if you work, they start at five.
They're just like the late game is over by like eleven twelve. Yeah,
it glorious. Exactly. You could sleep early if you want to. You
can still go out if you want to. There's just a million or one
different options on the West coast that are our Atlantic coast. We don't we
don't get that. We just don't get it. So yeah, I've I
second you on that brought you on to talk about a lot of teams no
one is talking about. But we're gonna begin with a team right now that
everyone is talking about for a litany of reasons, the Toronto Raptors. I
have to start just here, just given the way everything's played out at fev's
free agency and then the current Siakam rumors. Is this a situation where this
team is actually having this existential crisis of direction or is there more like do
they understand what direction they're headed in more than it seems publicly. I think
they've been fighting a current for a really long time. For the last couple
of years, they've been fighting the inevitable, which was that they would have
to at some point in time make a decision on what they want to do.
We've talked about like the two timeline experiments around the league and how failed
they usually are, Like Portland was trying to for like five days and that
didn't work out. Golden State tried it for a few seasons, that hasn't
worked out. They clearly are going a different direction now. But with Toronto,
they as soon as they drafted Scottie Barnes, it was like, okay,
there is this two direction timeline that they are trying to uphold. Keep
continue, whatever you want to use. And they've been fighting a current ever
since, especially because money wise, you know, Pascal Siakam is a free
agent in twenty twenty four. O g n and Obi has a player option,
but he will absolutely be opting out of that player option. He'll be
a free agent in twenty twenty four. So they've just been fighting this current
of, yes, we can keep this team competitive all while this team is
becoming extremely expensive, and they sort of, I would say they've sort of
tricked themselves into believing this team is better than it is. In last year's
trade deadline, they traded they kind of swapped first round picks in order to
swap Gorn Rodgers for Fad Young, and then last year they traded for Yaca
Peurtle with the first round pick. So they've they've sort of bought into the
idea that we're trying to win now and we're trying to do this and get
to another level playoff wise, but they're also fighting the current of this is
too expensive, they can't really keep this up, and also trying to blend
the young guys and then the old guys who are trying to compete. It
just it seems to never work out in the NBA unless you're the San Antonio
Spurs. Yeah, and I was pretty bullish on them menenturing last season.
I think a lot of people were. You know, it does feel like
and I like MESSI h Jerry is still one of the top executives in the
league, maybe of all time. But like the way that Kyle Lowry,
like his exit unfolded, and then now Fred Van Leeds where it's you're not
able to capitalize on their departures and really anyway you have pressures that you are
from the Kyle Lowry trade and so far as you're still I did pick him
to win Most Improved Player in the preseason last year, that's not where that's
that's I like the pick though, I like the confidence. That's how bullish
I was on them. But now you've just had two mission critical players who
you could have gotten in Kyle Lowry's case more at the trade deadline, or
move Fred van Bleep for anything at all, Like that's a miss use of
assets. Like there's the human element of it, like you want them.
I mean they wanted to keep Fred VanVleet. It wasn't oh, we're trying
to send him somewhere. He wants to go each just outright left. But
like that's a really big mishandling of assets to lose, especially FEV who's in
his prime. To lose that guy just for nothing, and you replace him
with, you know, Dennis Shrewder who had a good year in Los Angeles,
but he's just not going to bring anywhere near the level of shooting.
Yeah does no, you're right, I mean miscalculations. I think it's just
been small, tiny mis calculations that is built up to bigger and bigger ones.
The Kyle Lowry trade, I think initially not trading him at the deadline
was the grave mistake, especially with like what the reported offers were that were
out there. I mean, it seems insane in hindsight. You can kind
of if that was the only mistake, you could take solace in that and
say, okay, well, hey, there may be building towards something better.
But then there's other smaller miscalculations, not landing or hitting the Malachi Flynn
pick, which was I believe the twenty ninth pick in the NBA draft that
clearly hasn't panned out over the last three years. And then you continue on
and it's the Thad Young trade, It's the Yack of Peartle trade, it's
the second rounders that they usually for the last ten years, have been able
to hit on. You know, you think of second rounders in the past
from the Raptors, guys like Norman Powell who have been able to turn into
NBA players. Some of the guys that they've drafted in that realm Delano Banton,
you know, David Johnson, et cetera, et cetera. Those guys
just haven't worked out. And that's not to say it's like a grave mistake,
but these small little miscalculations has made it so that a Raptors team that
usually is so incredible at working around the margins has not been able to work
around the margins. And then the bigger stuff just compounds into, like you
said, just poor asset management because of the fact that you don't have anything
to rely on because of those you know, those things that you usually could
nail down. It's just, yeah, it seems like maybe there has been
a little they've they've kind of lost their fastball a little bit, whatever you
want to say, but yeah, it's it's tough to look at the last
two or three years of the Raptors front office decisions and say any of it
was a resounding success. And you say fighting against the curt is the perfect
way to frame it. And there's been like this. It feels like conflicting
messaging because you give up just even look at the most recent chain of events.
The top six protected pick for Yaka Pearl just implies that you're trying to
remain competitive. Then you go with the first time head coach and Darko let
Fred van Flee leave for nothing. And now, and this is my question,
what are we to make of the Siakam rumors in the sense that are
they just worried about footing his next contract? Are they actually looking to head
in a different direction, or maybe they don't love to fit between him and
Scottie Barnes. He's trying to be opportunistic. Do they know that he wants
to qualify for the Supermacs, and they don't want to have to be on
the hook for what would be like five years and almost two ninety if he
if he qualifies for the Supermax next year, Like, what are we,
like, what are we to make of the idea that they are actually shopping
Pascal Siaka? So I hate to be the cop out answer, but it's
it's a combination of all of that. And I think if you look at
the Pascal situation before Fred decided to leave, I think that the Raptors had
every intention in the world to run it back to just say, hey,
we have a new coach. It was really really bad with Nick Nurse last
season. The players didn't mesh well with Nick. There was a lot of
background stuff, behind the scenes stuff that happened with Nick that people, especially
players, just didn't appreciate. So let's start a new Darko Ryakovitch new coach.
He brings in new vibes. He seems like he's a very energetic player
player coach if you will, like you know what I mean? And I
think that was the idea. It was like, hey, let's just reset
the system with a new coach. Let's bring all these guys back. They
were very confident that they could resign a Fred van Vleet and completely misread the
market on what he would potentially get in the Houston Rockets or anybody else that
would be able to offer money. After that, it was like, Okay,
we have to reassess our options and see where we're at with the rest
of the team. And you look at their front court, which is Yack
of Peartle, Scotty Barnes and Pascal Siakam. What does that front court lack
shooting? Right? Just like negative amounts of shooting and unless there's a massive
leap from Pascal or Scotty when it comes to the shooting department, like they
just become thirty seven percent shooters forty percent shooters at some point in time in
their careers, which is doubtful. It's hard to build around that. It's
hard to say this is a core that we're investing in, especially because Scotty
and Pascal operate in so many similar areas of the court. I just think
that's where their question lies now. It's like, how are we going to
continue not necessarily stunting the development of Scotty, but making it harder on Scotty
to develop and fully grow into the player he is by doubling down on the
lack of spacing, the lack of ball handling, creation, etc. They
made that mistake with Pascal over the last three or four seasons. Honestly,
they never surrounded him with the right type of shooting, ball handling, playmaking.
They spent three seasons without a center and forced him to play center for
a couple of those seasons. Right, So it's tough. Yeah, that's
why we're in this situation now, you know, is there any element of
it just because OG's name doesn't seem to be mentioned in official rumors as often
that they're also looking at it from that perspective where it's like, if you
actually want Og to develop more as an offensive player, having Siakam and Scotty
Barnes, like there's just too much sort of overlap there when you're looking at
weaknesses and like, yeah, Og n and Obi' spaces the floor, but
he's not out there hitting like these off the dribble three pointers at a consistent
clip. Yeah, for sure. And I think that you know, there's
been the reports for over the last couple of seasons where he wants to have
a bigger role he wants to experiment a little bit more. And I think
he just turned twenty six yesterday, so happy birthday, Og. But it
seems like there is a willingness now to go younger and have Scotty and Og
be sort of the forefront of whatever you trying to build. I just think
that's where we're at with the Siakam situation. And obviously, yeah, they
have mishandled two free agency decisions over the last three seasons. You said,
Kyle, you said, Fred, they don't want to go into a third
now with Pascal and potentially Fumble the best player of the bunch. You know,
I think he's been their best player over the last couple of seasons.
They can't do that with a guy of Pascal's caliber. What have you made
of the or do you have any destinations that you like for his fit that
can also meet like what Toronto wants out of a package. And I think
what's also an interesting discussion I didn't put this in the outline, is I
think this happens with a lot of stars that become available. There seems to
be like a major discrepancy between what I think people who watch a lot of
just NBA basketball at large, and then individual fan bases think of Pascal Siakam's
value just and I think I noticed that. And this isn't an insult to
that fan base. I want to make it clear, but I talked a
lot about the Pacers fit when that rumor came out, and they're just like,
we won't give up any of the young guys will give like a first
round pick and salary Fellers like still, Siakam's really fucking good. And it's
wild to me that people still don't like if you don't want to be comfortable
with the contract or whatever. I get it, but I've been surprised.
I think it some of the fake trades I've seen floated out there, or
what families that are willing to give up even by that those standards like we
recalibrate. Okay, this is coming from someone who roots for a team,
you get it. They're attached to their players. I've been sort of shocked
at how little it seems like fans are willing to give up to have Pascal
Siakam on their team. He's always had that about him, though. I
feel like for a very long time, Pascal has been that guy that has
been extremely underrated for what he can do. I would argue over the last
couple of seasons he's been a top twenty ish player at times, top fifteen
ish player in the NBA. Made all unbate it like it was probably really
is Randall. I don't even remember what the voting results, but like he
was right there. He was very close. Yeah, he was very very
close, and yeah, that would have helped him be a super max player.
It really hurt him contract wise, But I think when you look at
what Pascal can give as a complimentary star to your number one option, he
is almost one of the most perfect pieces to play next to any massive star.
He's just incredible off the ball. He can create for himself. He's
grown as a playmaker as a guy who can create shots for himself as well.
He's great defensively, he can cover a lot of ground. So I
just think that's a perfect type of guy to slot in. Again, insert
whoever star that you want to build around, whether it's Tyrese Haliverton with the
Pacers or Trey Young with the Atlanta Hawks, those are the two that are
always mentioned. I Orlando sneak in there by the way recently. Yeah,
I just I don't get it. I'm here for it. I'll try,
I'll try whatever. But they do have a lot of young guards, and
I mean the Raptors need a lot of young guards. But I don't.
I just don't see where that would work, Like how that would work with
him Polo Franz and Wendell spacing won't be great. Like I know Wendell Carter
Junior can shoot, but is he going out in that trade? And yeah,
you don't give up Palo or front, like if the spacing would still
be wonking there an Indian and Atlanta like you could imagine it really working like
with the like he would finally be around, like at least in three shooter
lineups, if not four. Exactly. Yeah, I think with Indie it's
probably the most snug fit just because you have exactly what Pascal needs to operate,
multiple playmakers around him, multiple shooters, guys who can attack closeouts,
who can essentially they can bend to defense, but then also Pascal can bend
to defense for them. I think a lot of that works with Indiana.
Now it just depends on what they're willing to give up. Because I think
the Raptors in the draft that they drafted Christian Coloco. They were trying to
get Andrew Nambard. That was the guy that they wanted to get, and
he went. He went a pick right before and they were like, damn,
we have to recalibrate and figure out what we're gonna do. So,
yes, I think Andrew Nambard is a guy that they would love in any
sort of Pascal deal. Now it's like, okay, what else are you
going to attach that? Obviously, I think Buddy Healed would have to work
for contract reasons, they'd have to send him out. So it's like Buddy
Nambard, maybe a couple of picks, some other salary to make it work.
That's probably what you're looking at for Pascal right now, even considering the
fact that he's an expiring contract, the fact that, according to the reports,
he hasn't shown a willingness to resign anywhere. Although I think a lot
of that, by the way, Dan has to do with the fact that
he could be Supermax eligible. That's the only wrinkle in this, you know
what I mean. Look, if he wants to try and qualify for that,
good for him, Like yeah, and try and get your money.
And looked, it's not. I mean, I would argue I think the
roster is even less set up for him to succeed in a way that would
allow him to be all NBA eligible. But I mean there's a difference between
like even what is the extension he could sign right now? Is like four
years and one ninety ish, Yeah, one ninety two I think is what
I saw last And then like so if he's Supermax eligible, it's going to
be next summer, be five years, and I have two hundred and eighty
eight point three in my dock, So like if it's anywhere in that ballpark,
like maybe I'm off on the calculations there, that's a massive difference in
down money and correct me if I'm wrong. But even if even if the
Raptors say, hey, we're not going to give you the full Supermax,
they can meet anywhere in between that four and one ninety two and that five
to whatever. Right, It doesn't have to be either, or it can
be somewhere in the middle, right, And it's even just the thought of
Okay, if you extend now, you're throwing four years on top of your
deal. If you wait, it's just the idea of getting the five guaranteed
seasons even if you're not super Max's eligible might matter to him, and I'd
be fascinated to see, like what if this get And I guess that's really
my next question. I'm I'm with you on Indie and the package you laid
out. If I'm a Pacers and I don't have to give up Jarress Walker,
Benn Nick Mathern, I've made that deal two days ago. I just
like I in my head, I was like, You're You're gonna have to
give up one of those young guys. I didn't know how until you said
that Toronto was like super high on them hard and so like if they value
him as sort of like a fringe first round type player or someone who would
make an impact for them, I would give up his medi picks as Toronto,
And like, if I'm keeping Benn Nick Mathern and Jarss Walker even though
don't necessarily like Yakham and Jarress Walker together, Miles Turner allows you to make
all sorts of different things work, So I think they are my favorite destination.
Have you thought of any like dark Horse teams that could sneak in there?
I did think. I thought about Charlotte for a minute, because it
feels like new ownership. They're always kind of doing wonky ship over there,
and will they try and make a splash. I couldn't make it work because
you're not gonna give up Brandon Miller, I don't think. And they're pick
obligations. They're just so weird and they have salary matching, but they don't
have a bunch of young guys on the roster that you're gonna be hind And
Mark Williams is really good, like he's gonna block a lot of dump shots,
has a little some mid range touch, but just gave Yakapeta eighty million
dollars like you don't you don't need Mark Willie. Yeah, I don't know.
Man. It's funny because there's so many centers available now after the Raptors
have got their center. You know, people are bringing up Clint Capella in
a Hawks deal. It's like, man, if this had happened last year,
this could be interesting, But I guess not. The dark horse I
would have for you is okay See. And I know okay See would never
do this, would never do this. They just it's not Sam Presty's way.
He's not the type of guy to go out and make that splash.
I think the only time he's ever made that type of splash is the Paul
George trade. Right, Other than that, you know the track record of
well maybe they would do it, yeah right, yeah, fair enough.
But I think like there is a deal there wherever. What it would be,
I'm not sure. Do do the thunder include one of Jayleen Williams or
Josh Giddy in that deal? I would be hesitant if I was. Okay
see, I think that's like, I'm not sure, and then you know
they have their pick capital, which is insanely good. So I don't know
what the exact deal would be, but fit wise, man, okay see
would be incredible. I love that you think along those lines because I brought
them up in the Damian Lillard discussion where it was like the package I came
up with, you kept Jamn Williams S, ga chet Home Grin. It
was like Josh Giddy was sent to the Spurs and a three team deal and
like Portland got kelled and Johnson in a pick. But okay, c fans,
and I'm not insulting them. We've been on a honeymoon because I've been
higher on Okay, see than a lot of national people. They're just like
Sam Pressy's never gonna do it. While are you talking about it? We
would never give up Josh Giddy for Damian Lillard. It's just like, I
understand what they're doing, but it's okay to want a team that's really good
right now, profile to be really good, to be aggressive to get even
better. And they're also ready, right They're they're ready, and they we're
seeing it now. They're playing like this game of roster musical chairs, like
they're starting to run. Like Trey Man is going to be collateral. He
just had like a monster summarily, He's gonna become collateral damage of all this,
like he just brought in Kason Wallace. You have Josh Giddy and SGA
and Lou Dort, Like the garments are just going to be cannibalized pretty quickly.
So I would love them to do something like that. They've the messaging
they've sent out, which is what everyone in the comments always says. I
understand what okay, C is saying. It's okay for us to have our
own opinion of what oh yeah, exactly it would be. So I haven't
ruled out Pascal Siak, I'm actually just signing like an extension now with the
Raptors. And so if you had to sort of rank the most likely outcomes
in this scenario in terms of he either reaches free agency, gets traded,
or signs an extension, now, how would you sort of order those?
So I would probably say in terms of most likely is that he gets traded
now, and then second most likely I would say extension, and then the
doomsday scenario is he heads to free agency, and I just think the Raptors
don't want to make that mistake again. I think Fred was a really hard
lesson for them. I think Kyle obviously was a scenario that they didn't think
they were going to get to that point with. So I think I would
lean that way if I'm ranking it. I could see an extension though,
I really really could, especially if if the talks have died down with an
Atlanta with an Indiana, there's a there's room there for them to essentially say,
hey, we're going to extend you with the idea that maybe in a
year or maybe two years that we're going to address a trade and see what
happens. Do you think he would rejoint where he would sign that extension if
he's that focused on becoming Supermatch eligible or even maybe just getting that fifth year.
I think from like his perspective, if you're his agent, you probably
say you don't take that extension just because of the possibility of being able to
get that money. And then, like you said, there's a fifth year
potentially opens to you in twenty twenty four. It's it'd be hard to come
down and say, hey, we're going to take this extension just so that
we can trade you. And oh, by the way, it's probably not
the deal that you're looking for, you know what I mean, right,
And I mean the twenty twenty four free agency classes is going to be rough
because Joan Brown is going to sign extension. We all see, so it's
gonna be rough. I just wonder, like if the Raptors saying, well,
we're not gonna give you a fifth year and so you're gonna get four
years if you leave anyway, Like does that Like if I'm Pascal, I
might if they offered me the max extention, I might just sign it.
Yeah, fair enough, Yeah, especially because you have this one year cushion
too, So it would be you're essentially guaranteed for five years. That way,
I think that would make sense. I would be I wouldn't be surprised
if he extends. But I think just given all the reporting, everything we're
hearing recently, and also just the situation around the team, the amount that
they want to just start a new with Darko, with all the new staff
that they've hired. I think out of their eighteen coaching assistants and trainers and
whatnot, seventeen of them left, so they've they've essentially completely gutted the training
staff and coaching staff. So they're trying to start new. They have a
bunch of, you know, young new guys that they're looking forward to.
I think they probably want to start fresh to start the season. That is
my way of looking at it. But again, who knows what this Raptors
team. They always have an unconventional way of going about things. I'd love
to go more into the weeds about this team with you, except with that
that we don't really know what they're gonna look like, and so a lot
of them become neated. So I'll ask you the polarizing question that became incredibly
controversial throughout last season and even after his rookie season, Where do you land
on Scottie Barnes after a year or two? What is the thing you're watching
for in year three? What's his I know a lot of people say is
shooting might be as big as swing skill, but what else is there when
you're just looking at and seeing how his game progresses from here? I think
shooting is the easy skill to look at and say this is swing skill.
Yeah. I mean when you look at the top five to ten players in
the NBA, most of them have to shoot at a pretty high clip and
they're pretty efficient scores. I think above shooting, scoring is the big thing
with Scottie Barnes and finding different ways to score. And where does that come
from. Its his ball handling. I think becoming a better ball handler in
general is going to help him becoming that quote unquote point guard that he aspires
to be, but also just to be able to get into his bag scoring
wise, a little bit more getting downhill, being able to you know,
take contact, you know, use a handle and maybe just go up with
it. I think he was incredible in his rookie season at finishing through contact,
using an embracing contact. And these are the little things like these aren't
necessarily swing skills for him to become a superstar or whatever you want to call
it. But when it comes to what Scotty can be his potential ceiling,
it's going to come down to scoring, not necessarily shooting. It's it's sort
of like, I don't want to say, it's like Jannie, but Jannie
never became an excellent shooter, but he still is an incredible score because of
the way that he lives in the paint. He's maybe the greatest paint score
of all time, but not to that same degree. Being able to just
develop a way, a consistent way to score at the NBA level is what
will make Scotty successful in terms of like ceiling versus floor. How do I
read year two versus year one? Uh, It's it's hard not to be
somewhat disappointed in what year two looked like. But at the same time,
there was not a lot of Like the way that the Raptors team looked didn't
do him any favors, And I think that's part of the process of seeing
what this team looks like next year, because you want to find a way
to maximize his development, and last year just that wasn't the case. I
mean him and Pascal were both working in a closet in terms of spacing,
uh, and it just it never really helped flourish his game. He really
struggled because he was seeing so much attention. He was kicking it out,
guys were not hitting shots. And then as the year progressed, it was
just he wasn't able to, you know, really create anything for himself.
So that's that's where the issues live. It was just the context of the
team really helped make it even worse for him. And when you watch him,
like I still see it, like there were when you compare your one
of year two, there were these possessions where it felt like he was processing
everything at a quicker speed. But then like if he was going downhill,
the spacing, what all of a sudden sabotage what he was doing, or
like he has the turnaround, like he has a little push shot. Like
it's not always efficient, but sometimes it felt overly methodical because he just didn't
have like the room to work with. But they were just like these there
could have been games and there were just even possessions in some of his worst
games was like, oh, even without the ball, He's just moving so
quickly, and it feels like he's making reason processing things so much faster that
I still just see it. I think it's fair to be say maybe his
growth was kind of halted a little bit, or just be disappointed in year
two. But I look at him and I don't know that my opinion of
his future has changed at all compared to what I thought of him after his
rookie season, where I thought he should have been Rookie of the Year,
Like I didn't think that, yeah, you could have went him remotely is
fine, but I don't think that he was a lot of people paying for
this some like blasphemous decision, and I just I don't think my needle has
moved on him at all. I will I will say I think the thing
that's been really impressive about Scottie over the last two years, or for the
first two years of his career is the fact that he's been so adaptable to
different roles, like his usage and just touches every single game have consistently changed.
He doesn't know what he's getting on any given night, and yet he
still finds ways to impact a basketball game, Like you mentioned, whether it
be through his cerebral passing, whether it be through like being a good week
side rim protectors. He's been able to do some interesting things on that front
too. I think the defensive side of the ball has to grow a lot
still, especially on ball, But overall I agree with you. I think
I think that there is still tons of promise there. It's just about finding
a team building something around him that just makes sense. Contextually shooting, please,
you know what I mean. That's I think that's the main thing everybody
talks about. But it's true, like you need guys who are able to
work in dribble handoffs, be able to be spot up shooters, be able
to be catching shoot guys, pull up shooters. Those are the type of
guys that will thrive besides Scotty Barnes. It's it's sort of similar to Demonta
Sabonis and the Sacramento Kings. It's like the Kings now have this cerebral big
man who can work in dribble handoffs. This creator for you, but also
you need guys to be that second part of that, which is the shooting,
which is the downhill actions that the Aaron Fox gets into. Like all
this stuff is is required to make Sibonis look like an All NBA player last
season, So yeah, I don't know. That's why the Pacers kind of
makes sense is because you get Buddy Healed, you have Grady Dick there,
and like O G there's like a pathway to if you want to run Scottie
at point and Yako bit at the five, like there's three shooters around him,
and that's just like way worth basing than he was had in most of
his lineups last year. Like the Pacers deal man, I like the Pacers
deal. Yeah, look, you're willing to give up Pascal Siakam for lesson
I was gonna set up. I had like Jarress Walker going. I just
felt like a fit, Like you slide just Jarres Walker into the Pascal Siakam
really get a pick or two and like let's be done with the heel.
But Pacers fans were not about it, So that might be a good barometer
for where they're also not a team that, like we talked about the Thunder,
they at least have the track record for making the Paul George trade.
The Pacers just don't like, Yeah, I don't even know what their biggest
mid season or biggest acquisition in the trade market would be probably did they sig
boy Badhanovitch or they trade for him? But I think they signed him or
what was less sign and trade maybe I think it might have been like that
would that would be in contention if that was the sign and trade acquisition for
their biggest I mean, I guess you would count Victor Oladipo and someponents like
as part of Paul George trade, Like, is that their biggest acquisition?
I suppose yeah, I guess so, I guess No, You're right,
the Pacers aren't are very risk averse as well. I wanted to ask you
about a few teams that I don't think at least we haven't talked about them
a ton this offseason on our podcast. But get with the New Orleans Pelicans.
They didn't really do much this offseason. You get Jordan Hawkins. We
know that they're going to duct the tax at some point. It seems like
field salary dump Kyra Lewis Junior. This is all good amount to me just
asking for your overing, overarching impressions on all these teams that for their off
seas, Like where are you on the Pelicans? Do you think they should
have done more to be more aggressive, to diversify the front court spot next
to Zigon, or even just to add even even more shooting. What did
you think of just their decision to sit relatively pat during the off season.
Yeah, honestly, I'm still pretty confident in what they look like in November
and December. I wrote a couple of pieces at that time just saying,
like, how incredible they looked both offensively, they were figuring out a system
defensively where which was very switch heavy, and they were just trying to limit
limit points in the paint but also being able to limit stuff on the perimeter.
It just looked very, very good. And also, Zion, I
think it just comes down to health with these guys. And I hate that
that is the answer. I hate that that I'm giving you that cop out
of and serve of saying this is just a health thing with these guys.
But I think the amount of games brandon Ingram CJ. McCollum, and Zion
Williamson have played are in the single digits like together, and I just that's
ridiculous to me that that's act like a ludicrous stat that doesn't make a lot
of sense when you hear it out loud to yourself. So I think that's
that's where I would go. It's like, can this team stay healthy,
because if they can, they are a surefire top four, top three seed
in the Western Conference next season. And they looked so good offensive built a
round zion that I just I kind of trusted so much. I also believe
in the development of their younger guys. I'm a huge Trey Murphy fan.
I think he has Like we were talking about m IP with Precious, I
think he's a pretty good pick for m IP for twenty twenty four if you're
being you know, a little fringe you with your pick, if you want
to say, but I like I like Trey just in general, just because
he's he has shown an ability to create a shot a little bit more.
He's an incredible shooter off the ball, obviously, and he's just like a
long range G defender that works well in their system. I like Trey a
lot. I think he can be their next guy. You know, I'm
with you on Trey. I wonder whether he'll get like the touches to explore
the ball skills necessary. But it's not even just his shooting. When he's
not you know, dominating me act just like the range that he had on
a shooting He's just like, you're going to stretch defenses, paper thing.
And so I'm with you on everything you said, where I still would have
liked you've seen them been a little bit more aggressive to just try and open
up the floor. And I think we're at the point where you might have
to start planning around Zion's gonna miss thirty games a year or whatever it is.
And so there's it's so tough because he's twenty three and they were like
the best team in the West at one point last year, and so you
believe in the theory of this team, it's just so tough to imagine them.
I mean, even looking at some of the time that Brandon Ingram has
missed. You. Now if the factor in like the CJ McCullum learning curve,
they might aging curve, excuse me, And then you you're all of
a sudden, like I don't love Joanna's found you and is a good player,
but like I don't know if he's gonna close as part of your best
lineups. And then like you're gonna reach a like he's hitting free agency next
year and so it's like, so, who is your big band now,
Like it's not. Cody Zeller isn't going to be like the solution long term.
So I would have liked you've seen them been more aggressive, but they're
they were so good when fully healthy that I was actually surprised. I think
I saw some people name them as like the biggest losers of the off season,
and I'm just like, I can't get there, because this team if
things just break even seventy five percent right where if we said Zion played in
fifty seven games right now or sixty one, like I might be like,
well, New Orleans is probably gonna be like in the top four of the
Western Conference. And a big part of that you mentioned too, is not
just Trey Murphy. The defense is just like we saw it in not even
just last season, but Willie Green's first year. There's there's like a system
in place, and they got really good in transition the year not last year,
but the previous year. They're a little bit worse last season. You
mentioned the switching scheme work for them in the half court. They're really good
at ending possessions. I think Zion even improved on that end of the floor
when you watch him a lot last year compared to years past. I remain
bullish on their future, but I don't think it's unfair. It's not.
I'm with you when it comes to health because Zion has missed like two thirds
of his career games. So it's not a cop out. That's a real
thing. That's real. It's also like, how do you reconcile that when
you look at just their future and what they look like next season the year
beyond that, Like, how are you supposed to assess this team when it's
constantly like, oh, by the way, injury, you know, right,
don't I don't know how you're supposed to And like they were trying to
make some assessments because you go out and make the CJ call him trade and
so, and we know like that they kind of poked around like the Malik
Beasley sweepstakes at the last trade deadline. So I think it makes sense.
I think to run it back and then if you need to make more wholesale
decisions even at mid season, because there has to be a bit of urgency.
Just Zion is sort of this physical singularity. We don't know how long
his prime window is gonna last. If he remains healthy. So I do
think you need to be more urgent, and I think there are real flaws
on this team. But I'm also just like what someone needs to point me
to the move that they were supposed to make here, and like, I'm
not even a big fan of teams ducking attacks, but I'm like, what
was what was the move that's gonna be worth them spending more taking on money
in a trade? And I can't get there, And so I think,
like, as is, this is maybe a fringe contender if they stay healthy.
If not right, Yeah, some people brought up the idea of Dame
and then I know at the at the draft there was the idea of trading
Zion for Scoot and kind of resetting that way. I just don't see those
being viable options. Maybe you could sell me on the Dame idea if CJ
gets rerouted to a third team, but I don't know. I just don't
see that. I like the Dame idea, and it would like it's just
hard to build, Like your Dyson Daniels is gone. I really like Dyson
Daniels. If he can like hit a like a stand still jumper. Ever,
he's gonna be really good, but like you can't trade herb right now,
and that's an he's so good. I just feel like he improved his
shooting as this season went on, but it was like on like sub two
attempts per game. It's like, I need to see more volume out of
him because I just wonder what he'll look like in longer playoff settings. But
that's like I actually liked Dame in New Orleans. If you find a third
team procedure and you're willing to unload the picks, I just they're not.
They're just clearly a team that doesn't want to make that move, and I
get it. I will say I was a board. I became so high
on Scoot that if you were gonna flip Zion for Scood, I think I
was in the camp. I don't remember what I said, but if I
was New Orleans and it was there, I probably would have done it.
Yeah, I'd have to think about it, but I'm pretty high on Scoot
too, and I would I would at least entertain the idea. Like I
love what Zion does, and like every time I think of trading Zion for
Scoop, I think of the November and December Zion that we had last season,
and I'm like, I don't know, man, that's an MVP candidate
right there, Like, how do you trade that for a guy that you
don't know? Even though like there are some assurances when seeing a guy like
scouting what he can be in the future, but still like, Zion is
an MVP candidate. How are we going to move on from this guy?
It feels like a tough pill to swallow. Yeah, I think even David
Griffin said that the talks they had about number three never involves Zion. Who
knows how true that is, but they clearly are thinking in the way you're
thinking. Yeah, the other team feels another team it feels weird to have
on this list? Is the Knicks just sort of floating around out there?
You signed Dante de Vincenzo and that's like it it's like four years, forty
six million guaranteed or whatever it is. What do you make of What do
you make of their decision to sort of just like stand pat and they add
Dante de Vincenzo to to what the and trade and trade Obie? Of course.
Yeah, first of all, I feel like Obie didn't get a fair
shot in New York and him and yeah, him in Indiana just makes a
lot of sense. Like we talked about in a little bit in passing here,
but just the playmaking, the shooting around him, it's they're gonna be
a high oxane offense. They're gonna be running and gunning a lot, and
he's gonna be a lot of fun to watch. And I think Obi will
be a part of that. When it comes to adding Dante, it's just
like another guy you can rely on on the wings to guard people. He's
a much more willing shooter than Josh Hart and I think that's just part of
like, hey, if Josh isn't shooting today, let's throw Dante and strow
Hinda. And Dante was pretty good from from what I remember last year,
he was like a forty percent shooter. Yeah he was. He was really
good for three last year. Yeah, So like if he can keep that
up, that's just another shooter that you can throw in there. The Knicks
obviously needed a lot of shooting going into this offseason. I think that makes
sense they addressed something there. When it comes to like them staying pat,
I just look at the situation in Philly and I'm like, all right,
let's just hold down the four until the big man decides to I just that's
where I'm at with New York. It's and it just makes all the sense
in the world. I don't know how it would ever happen, and if
New York, not even if New York, if Philly would be willing to
play ball in that, you know. But yeah, I just think you
gotta wait for for for in bed Man, you know, the Joel will
Be trade request is coming. It's just it's so it's I'm just I think
I didn't have a problem with what they've done so far because I think what
people they're like, they need to get shooting. It's like they don't need
shooting. They need shooting that cracks their closing lineup. That was never gonna
happen unless you make a big trade. And so the Dante's even Shenzo signing
is fine. I feel like there's still too small on the wings, Like
I like Josh Harden r J. Barrett the four for stretches, but like
you want, like they need like a bigger wing who can also shoot.
Again, they weren't going to get that for the mid level exception, and
so taking the flyer on. Dante's fine, but he's not a caps locked
shooter. He's like, as you mentioned, he's a good shooter. So
I was gonna ask you, like, is that when they're mentioned as the
team that's gonna go after the next mega star that becomes available, how do
you view their actual asset pool at this point? Because I was having this
discussion with someone who works at Nick's film school the other day. I don't
there. Their assets are kind of to me like some of the shine has
don't Obi already went for two seconds, I cues about like if you trade
for him now or on his next contract, He's right, yeah, he's
gonna be making more money, and like, okay, you have your own
first, and we can make the jokes like oh everyone wants a Knicks pick,
like those picks aren't necessarily going to be good the way things are tracking
right now, and then you have these extra first Okay, Dallas, fine,
that'll probably convey, but like the Detroit and Washington picks, those are
not guaranteed to convey. And so I'm just wondering, like, yeah,
you have RJ. Barrett and Quentin Grimes, but do they even have when
you're looking at a team that might go after a Jowell embat or like the
next bigger name up that comes available, is there package? As are their
best packages as enticing as I feel like it's been advertised, but they we
never go into specifics anymore because I feel like there's everyone knows a little like
deep down, like, oh, like their best offers have kind of gotten
worse, right, Yeah, that's a good point actually, And you know
what I think if you look at the other packages out there, like other
teams that could be able to cough up whatever for an MB type player.
You look at Okay, see you look at New Orleans, I mean even
technically Washington now or Brooklyn, Like these teams have tons of picks. Maybe
some young guys that teams would be interested in. They have the salary to
match. I think they would probably trump New York when it comes to just
pure package to deliver. But then we don't live in that era where it's
like, hey, this is just the best deal possible, we're gonna send
you here. We're looking at it. With the Damian Lillard situation right now,
it's like what his preferred destination is is weighing heavily into where he might
go because teams aren't sure whether he's going to be able to stay there.
He doesn't, he's gonna be happy, discruntled, et cetera, et c.
I think that might apply with Eimbiade as well. And if Embiade wants
to be or any other star really wants to be in New York, then
their package looks a little bit better and you can maybe say, Okay,
well you still get RJ. Barrett, you still get Quentin Grimes, you
still get whoever quickly, you know what I mean. I think that point.
Yeah, that's a great point, market man, you know the market
just it helps is Joel and be like that's a player you kind of like
you would go just if you're the Knicks, and he becomes like you're going,
You're going whole hog after him? Yeah, I think he just I
mean outside of the whole like cultural like Ethos and Bead being like an MSG
thing, which is incredible by itself. I think the fit alongside Bronson,
whoever, you can keep with those guys, whether it's like a heart a
de Vincenzo, it just makes a lot of sense, Like it just looks
good. It seems like it would register properly in my head in terms of
Bronson being able to create create off of isolation possessions and Bed being able to
create off of isolation possessions to pick and rolls that they would have the dribble
handoff stuff that they could work on. I just think it would be a
near seamless fit and New York would be maybe one of the best teams in
the Eastern Conference almost immediately if that happens. I think I'm with you.
I just I would prefer them to have like this bigger win type player even
when we're trying to hunt for the next star that becomes available. That player
doesn't seem to exist like I couldn't come up with I try to think about
it, like INBID might be like even more so, I like Karnthy Towns
not for this team, And I don't know why TIBs and Towns whatever reunite
for anything. I think it almost has to be in BED unless they're waiting
for Donovan Mitchell to become available again. And even that you run into some
weird small guards stuff with him and runs him. So what about want to
bead? But I just don't know if he's like the guy I just don't
think the perfect guy is. I mean, we're always surprised by what like
I don't like even if you're trying to think of way out there, I
just can't find the bigger wing player that might request the trade. Series.
So the only the only team I can think of, and this isn't request
the trade. But it's like we've kicked the can down the road so many
times that at some point we have to just reassess our options here. And
that's the Clippers. And it's like, you look at Paul George, you
look at Kauai and those guys, especially with their age and where they're at
contract wise, they definitely won't cost as much as what well embiad wood.
So maybe you can retain some of that quote unquote asset pool and still be
able to acquire a Kauai, a Paul George, whoever that might be,
and maybe like maybe that's your solution for your big wing, stretchy forward type.
You know. Yeah, I will say whatever that rumored offer was then
Knicks apparently turned down for Paul George, I just won't buy it because I
would have made that trade enough. It was it was just like but I
think, yeah, You're right, those would be like that, That would
be the team. Where do you land on the very quickly like the I'm
more of the Julish. Fadel is a very good player. I just think
there's way too much overlap with him and if you actually want r J to
develop into the player you're supposed to be there, having Jail and runs in
there, it feels like one of those three guys, not just in a
bigger trade, but like just needs to go. Don't see the theory of
it. Too many lefties, man, They're all on one side of the
court. No, I'm kidding. Look, I like Randall. I think
he's he's gotten like he's gotten a lot of hate over the last couple of
years, and I think he's produced some really phenomenal seasons. He is still
a flawed play in some senses. I think he can like his playmaking and
his passing has improved, but he still gets a little bit too indecisive when
there's a double team coming his way. I think some of that stuff is
very existent, especially in the playoffs. You can see that in the postseason.
Just his processing isn't there. It's you know, we compare Scottie Barnes
and Julius Randall. It's like two different worlds in terms of processing speed.
I think that's where I'm at with Julius, and like, yes, he
is a good player. I think he can be a good player on a
good team. But the questions about him maybe being your number one or number
two or number three guy on a potential perennial playoff team, I don't know.
I don't know. How do you feel on that, oh he needs
team trade Julius Randall, I don't think it's I don't think it's like what
do you trade him for? That's probably like he just had this all NBA
season and I don't really think that they could get a lot of value for
him, And I don't think. I'm pretty confident that the front office doesn't
even want to trade him. But I'm also wondering how much of that is
born from we don't think that we get a lot for him, and that'll
just look like an absolute nightmare. But I'm with you. Just he makes
as you're number one, there's a ceiling and it's not very high, and
then like when you start to knock him down a peg or two, he's
not always willing to do the stuff of a co star or a running mate,
and that's that's gonna make it a very difficult fit. And his defense
quite frankically this season, which is like at for long stretches are just embarrassing
and you're going to factor that in if you're a team that's acquiring him,
maybe because the money's not so obscene in this new cap climate. I just
don't like. I think this is more of a situation where you're kind of
letting years tick off his deal and then he becomes a valuable as like,
oh, there's only two years left on his deal or he's an expiring contract,
and you use him as more salary matching than any outgoing value, which
is a tough spot to be because he just made All NBA and I don't
think it was egregious for him to make All MBA, but to be talking
about this is just and look, if you want to keep him, fine,
but I just feel like with the RJ and the moments he had in
the playoffs, it's like you need to probably move on from him then because
Bruns is not going anywhere, and I just don't the three of these guys
together long term. Put just like this very finite cap on how good you
can be on both ends of the floor. Right, I'm curious because you
know, obviously New York have to ask you, r J. How do
people feel about RJ in the New York sphere? Because I feel like he
has a lot of believers, he also has a lot of doubters. Where
where where do Knicks fans, Knicks media stand on RJ? There's a lot
of division, and I do think if I had to pick that it probably
skews more pessimistic than optimistic. I'd just be curious to see. We talked
about this with Scotty, and it's not as bad in New York. What
would he look like with more space around him so that he can like when
he was attacking in the playoffs, he looks phenomenal and like I still believe
in his stand still jumper. I'm hoping this season we get to see him
in a lot of smaller bench heavy lineups, maybe independent of at least Julius,
but maybe even independent of Brunson as well, And so like, you
know, not to throw that team back kind of like like him on the
Pacers would make a lot of sense. It's just like next to Tyrese Haliburton
and maybe get to run some second units. And I hope for his career's
sake that it probably that he ends up like leaving New York at some point,
because like even Utah would have been a great fit for him, because
I think that there's a really good basketball player in there, maybe like a
third best player on a phenomenal team. That's really hard to do. Some
people think it as an insult if he's going to reach that level in New
York. I think there needs to be like a real cosmetic facelift happening around
him. And I just don't Again, we just went through it. I
don't know what the solutionist Randall or if they want to move Julius Randall.
Yeah, it's it's kind of an either or thing with those guys. And
yeah, I mean I would lean trying to develop RJ versus trying to squeeze
as most juice as possible out of Julius. You know, I've been begging
for a tear down for like twenty years. I would just rebuild and stuff.
I just want the Nicks to go through a proper rebuild, So I
would definitely skiw more towards that I will say to wrap him up, and
I don't know if you agree. I think what they did this past season,
maybe it's because a Brunson feels more sustainable than that Julius Randall most improved
player. I don't effect them even if they're a little worse when look at
the wins and losses, Like I expect this team to basically sustain what it
was able to do this past year. I think I've said this a lot,
and I've had to cover the guy, but Jalen Brunson reminds me a
lot of Kyle Lowry. And it's not just because of the way that they
play and the way that they do things, but like the wins added perspective,
the stability perspective, I think he just has a level of, hey,
we're going to squeeze forty two, forty three, forty four wins out
of this season, regardless of what the scenario is. And I think that
applies to Brunson as well, Like he just he has a way about him
in the regular season, even in the playoffs, like he was phenomenal until
he got banged up. But I just think he's that type of player.
He brings a level of stability to that team. They've been dying for a
point guard for such a long time. Shout out to Raymond Felton. That's
like one of my I had to. It's like every time I think of
Knicks point guards, like the grave of Knicks point guards, I think of
Raymond Felton. But yes, there's so many others that we could. I
think of the Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis backcourt. I hear you. Yeah,
yeah, no, there's so many. There's Pablo Prigioni I could,
There's just there's the there's the king of this podcast, Frankie Lakeena. Yeah,
yeah, I still I believe. I saw I saw a baby with
a frank Nil Keena Jersey on I was like, why did you give that
baby a frank La Jersey? Because they care about that child's future. So
the next team I have, uh is Orlando. And how did you feel
about like did they how did you feel about the anti Blacks fit? Like
did they add enough shooting with Joe Ingles and uh where the Jet Howard is
who they have? Like did they add enough shooting to make that work?
Because it was such a magic pick where it's like, hey, let's take
the really big guy who with a questionable jump bird. We already might have
enough of those dudes. Like, how do you feel about the kind of
roster set up right now? I was wary of the ant Black fit first,
but seeing him in Summer League, I kind of I'm a little bit
more confident in how that looks just because of how big he is. You
kind of have to contextualize how big these guys are once you see them in
person and you're like, oh, whoa, Anthony Black is way bigger than
I thought he would actually be. So yeah, I just think the size
makes a lot of sense in that lineup. I think they can be a
pretty good defensive team next season if some of that buying is there between Sugs
and Marquelle Folds and like, just like from a point of attack perspective,
they can be a really, really good defensive team. So I see it
from a defensive perspective. Offensively, I can understand the worries. Shooting wise,
I think Jet Howard is a great shooter, phenomenal. I was surprised
they didn't take Grady Dick, and I think a lot of Toronto Raptors fans
are also surprised they didn't take Grady Dick, but Jet can be a great
shooter, great off ball mover. He fits with what they do. I
think they do have to address their log jam at the guard spot at some
point this season. And I know Cole Anthony is up for an extension.
I know Marquel Is. I think he's inked on for a couple more years.
But like, what are you gonna do to make sure all these guys
get their touches? Especially with Aunt Black in the in the lineup now?
It's like, how do you how do you promote the growth of Sugs Black
and essentially all the other guards that they have in faults and you know what
I mean, I just don't know how you are able to just get enough
usage for all of those guys and then also have to worry about Franz and
Paolo and Wendell Carter Junior. It's just like how do you manage all those
responsibilities? At some point it feels like a consolidation is coming with those guys.
Yeah, and the front line, they're lucky because everyone you named on
the front line WCJ, Paalo, ben Caro even and then friends as like
very scalable. It's like they can work in all these different situations. You
have faults entering his contract year, so you're gonna have to make he's extension
eligible, I think, so you have to make a decision on him.
You mentioned Cole Anthony. I am still have a list. I am a
very big believer in Joel and Suggs who's been he was. They were like
a top ten defense for most of last year, and the assignments that he
was tackling during that stretch, We're just he was a monster. And he
started shooting well from three on real volume towards the ladder half or even for
most of the season, including from above the break. So like, if
he can sort of get his bearings, like become a quicker decision maker with
the ball and maybe not as sloppy like when he's heading downhill, there's like
an outline of not just oh okay, this guy can play like a really,
really good player. And it adds to the log jam. I'm with
you that I wanted them to make a consoliation trade this summer because I thought,
like, you know, they kind of need. They don't have a
lot of wigs on this team. If you view Aunt Black as a primary
facilitator, and you have Franz Wagner, and then that's that's kind of it.
Now you have Joe Engels, but he's a trillion years old. I'm
still so intrigued by them. I just don't think people who I trusted,
who are smart at me if told me that Jet Howard is just ready,
I don't know very little about Jet Howard, so I'll trust that. I
still just don't think, you know, when you look at their best lineups,
they're still dealing with a bottom five half court offense last season. I
don't know if they've improved enough. And even when you cake in Okay,
Palabank, Carrolls is gonna be better because that dude. He is that dude.
I think when you watch you, everyone's agrees. I just don't have
a lot of faith in like the offensive advancement this season with this exact crop
of personnel. To me, they seem like a good team to do a
Carl Anthony Town's trade and that's like down the road, but like that makes
sense to me. From you can get a couple of guards going to Minnesota,
you maybe get I don't know, a pick or two. I don't
know what the deal would essentially be. But like fit wise, I think
that would work really really well next Apollo and from I would like that.
I would not like we mentioned it before. I don't like Siaka in Orlando.
Yeah, it would be a very Orlando trade, Like everyone wants them
to get a guard or like a really high volume shooter, and they don't
get pastco Siaka. Maybe they even like they just get involved the og had
at Obie Sweepstakes and that's the way that they approve they're shooting. I flowed
them as a Damian Lillard destination. Like Consali. Orlando Magic fans were not
about it. They're just like no, And I know rebuilding teams and their
famils get attached their young players. But yeah, maybe that it's probably too
soon to talk about that, but it is coming with this roster. When
you look at the the set up and like they have all of these it's
okay seas in the sense that all these guys are really good. Like I
do think Magic fans had to be too high. Are Martell Foults, Like,
yes, he can take mid rangers, but this isn't someone who actively
spaces the floor for you. Yeah, but he's a defensive monster. And
he can set up your offense and we'll see how Anthony Black works. I
think it look if you can carve out enough space, Like the idea of
having him wagner bag Carol is just like that's pretty terrifying, like like has
a looking at their future outlook, they're good. Do you think they're playing
team next year? Do you think they cracked the top ten in the East?
Oh? Man, I haven't either, Like who else is in the
East? I guess if we're gonna write the Yeah, I know, I
don't know the Raptors out of it to like Bucks, Celtics, Calves,
Knicks probably aren't going anywhere heat. So that's five teams, but we don't
know the sixers, Like I guess, do we just throw them in there?
Like yeah, yeah, I guess. I don't know. Yeah,
it's there's so much uncertainty. But I could see them at least flirting with
the top ten spot next year. I mean they almost were last year,
except they kind of just kind of let go of the rope at the end
of the season. I think I think they're ready for that. I just
there's a lot of the offensive stuff they need to address shooting wise, I
wonder if some stability with like the end goals and Jet Howard just like having
extract shooters out there provides them offensively. But yeah, I could see this
team squeezing out, like I don't know, forty wins. I could see
that. I wouldn't be surprised at that. I think their defense will be
good enough to do it. And like if we're just writing off that,
I mean, the Hordets are still the Hordets. I don't know if the
Pistons are ready. The Wizards are gonna be worse by Deide, and it
seems like the Raptors might be tracking in that direction. So you've you've got
four of the five teams that you need to kind of beat out to get
that discussion already. So yeah, I would. I don't think that's spicy
at all. I think my co host Grant so they were gonna make the
playoffs. I'm not there yet, ye there, I don't know. I
can't do that. I could commit to Okay s being top six if you
want, we could talk about Okay See being top six, which is just
like it runs countered. I want them to make this big trade, but
like they just might be really good yeah, I mean you watch I'm sure
you watch chat in person in Summer League. Like he just adding that rim
protection and then like the floors based of what they have is just gonna be
like if I'm curious, I haven't looked at do you know what they're over
under? Is that? Like I might just smash the over even if it's
forty three. I feel like it's like around there, forty two, forty
three and a half. I don't know, I haven't checked, but i'd
imagine it's forty two or forty three and a half. Let me see,
okay, see thunder over under. I'm actually curious now, Yeah, well
we had they're like people who flowed, Like could they get to fifty wins?
I was like, it wouldn't. I would be shocked, but I
wouldn't be like dismayed. If you tell me, all right, yeah,
forty three and a half is what they're at right now, I think I
would take the over. Yeah I would, I would too. They're ready,
Yeah, they'll be all right. So we have it Essen, Dan
are booking, okay for top six exactly this season. Let me run through
at least one more team before I let you go. So the Grizzlies made
headlines with Marcus Smart earlier the off, they've not made headlines sids. Are
they better then they were lasting, like let's fast towards a job or at
the suspensions over after twenty five games? Are they better? I absolutely think
they're better. You won't find someone who's higher on the Marcus Smart trade than
me. Genuinely, I think, like I still am questioning it from Boston's
perspective. I'm not even talking about the heart and soul thing, like,
yeah, okay, we can talk about how Smart is impacting that team and
etcetera, etcetera. I just think from from relying on Kris stops porzingis for
a championship contender perspective, that's the question I have. I get there better,
I understand, and I think like they can be a more switch heavy
team on defense. They can they have more room protection, et cetera,
et cetera. But I just don't get it. Anyways, you asked me
about Memphis, I have to They're right on the Celtics there. I guess
their ceiling might be higher, but like they lost playmaking and they already one
of that, and they lost defensive versatility because Chris Stops cannot switch like like
Marcus Smart. Yeah, so they're yeah, they have like one of the
more it's been paid to us a success, but it feels like one of
the riskier. It is risky, and like, I just think the Celtics
were so one dimensional shot diet wise, Like they were so reliant on the
three ball, and now you have a guy in Christaps Porzingis who is just
doubling down on that theory instead of trying to diversify what this team is offensively.
I just it leaves a lot of questions from Boston's perspective. I understand
they probably they might win the most amount of regular season games next year.
I wouldn't be surprised at that, but I think moving forward postseason wise,
looking at that, I don't know how you rely on a guy like KP.
I think that's totally fair. I get it's if he has a season
like he did last year. Sure, yeah, yeah, it's just we
have a track record of all these lower body injuries with him on memphisis side
of things. I absolutely love it. I mean, you have you have
a guy in Marcus Smart who can play up defensively a little bit like He's
not going to do it all the time, but he can guard your threes.
He's good in the post as a defender, he can try to guard
your fours or at least switch out onto your fours. I I am still
wondering how it works offensively, and I think that's the biggest question, Like
how are you going to provide as much shooting as possible? Like Smart can
knock down a three, but he's not necessarily getting you know, he's not
getting a heart close out you know what I mean to run him off?
Yeah, don't get like the Andre Robertson treatment like Dylan Brooks does in the
playoffs. But you're right that, Like even when you look at the catch
and shoot numbers of the past years, he's like Dylan Rooks has been a
more efficient catch and shoot shooter than exactly. Yeah, exactly. I think
like they could be the best team in the in the NBA defensively, but
the offensive question still loom. I feel like they actually might have got a
little bit better half court wise, just because of the creation juice that Marcus
Smart brings, just like the connective passing. It makes a lot of sense
to me from what they are as a team offensively, but I like them.
I actually, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a team that we
look back on actually and we're like, Wow, this Smart trade really completed
them in a lot of ways. I still think they need a little bit
of wing help, but overall I love the trade for them. So I
kind of despised it. And really it's with the Kevina that I agree with
everything you said. It felt like they were trying to check too many boxes
with one player. And then if you were going to do that, the
players shouldn't have been Marcus Smart, because we know that they needed a wing.
Yeah, And then if you're giving up Taias Jones, you needed playmaking.
If you're letting Dylan Brooks walk, you needed the defense, and you
needed kind of shooting to begin with. And so like Marcus Smart kind of
fills some of those all of those areas, but he doesn't actualize a ton
of them. And it felt like a lot of it's going to be supplementation
rather than hey, we upgraded the roster where it's okay, did they really?
Maybe I think I'm with you that they upgraded their playmaking element a little
bit just because he's a little bit more chaotic off the dribble than that a
Thias Jones, who's more of a game manager. But you lost the best
backup point guard in the NBA. It's like, okay, it works that
Marcus Smart is coming, but what is the upgrade, like defensively from Dylan
Brooks. Maybe it's pretty substantial, but what is the upgrade as a shooting?
Is that substantial? And then you're still I would say if you answer
all those in the affirmative said, okay, they they upgraded those three areas
in one player, like, you still just need another wing because you're gonna
skew smaller if you're gonna try and play Marcus Smart in some of these combinations
with Desmond Bayane and John Moran. Now, and part of the appeal of
Marcus Smart is you can play him with Desmond Bayane and John Moran. You
couldn't do that with Tayas Jones. But again, that's just sort of putting
a band aid over well, that was what Dylan Brooks was doing. And
so how much better is Marcus Smart than Dylan Brooks? Are you in the
playoffs? I think it's it's material, it's measurable, like that was your
move and it just felt a little too lateral, like there they might be
a little bit better, but it's like it's incrementally and this team has been
itching. I think for a big swing with the caveat before I throw to
you, I've been wrong about the Grizzlies. This would be the fourth season
in a row, like I just keep hitting their under and they keep just
maybe looking at the Grizzlies fans should actually appreciate me saying all of this.
Yeah, yeah, fair enough. Like I think they were a prime destination
if the Raptors were to explore it to go for a guy like O g
n and Oby, he would have very much so completed what they needed from
the wing spot. Obviously that's not the case and they don't have, but
like someone like that would have met I guess, matched or optimized whatever,
the Grizzlies would have been a lot more than Marcus Smart. I agree on
that perspective. I just think postseason wise, I am trusting Marcus Smart over
Dylan Brooks, and I think that makes, like you said, a material
difference in any given playoff series. That's like, at a surface level,
that's how I'm looking at it and I might be underestimating, like oh,
Jared Jackson and Desert Bate or not finished products. Maybe like those two wis
I could still and they have some of these other like Santielle Dono I really
like, but like Jared Jackson Junior or des would be like both of those
guys could just like pop pop, which is weird to say about the rady
defensive player of the Year. But it's like Desert Bay just got a MAX
extension because he was worth it. It's like he might not be done growing.
So I recognize that are there any of the teams that we're not gonna
be able to get to? Looking at the Pistons, the Bucks, the
Hoarded, to the Timberwolves that you wanted to hit before we yeah, you
know what, I'll talk I'll talk about the Pistons a little bit because I
feel like I'm higher on them than other people. Just in general. I
think the way Kade is going to open things up for Jade and Ivy,
and the way Jade and Ivy is gonna open things up for Kate Cunningham is
gonna work really, really seamlessly. Some people are still like lower on Cade
in general because he missed the season, and I think that's just sort of
a recency biased thing. You don't see something, so you don't know what's
happening. But I still believe in Kade. I think he's gonna be a
good player. I like their backcourt I from the summer League, at least
from what we saw. I love Asar Thompson just as a defensive player,
a guy who can slot in right there as a defensive wing for them.
They've been desperate for that type of player. That's why they were trying to
go after a Cam Johnson type in the free eight in free agency. I
love Jayalen durn I think I think he's a great like role big. He
can he can make some short role passes. I think the Isaiah's Stewart extension
was pretty good money. I think he works well for their system. Uh.
They still have a ways to go, but I just I like what
they're building foundationally and how it could look in the next couple of seasons,
especially if one of Kade or Ivy or maybe both of them pop in a
real big way. Yeah, I'm hopeful with the way that Ivy I think
improved as an off the dribble shooter and decision makers. The season went on
and I saw, look, there are people that are like, oh,
you had all this cap space, you can turn into Monte Morris and Joe
Harris. I'm like, that's really good. Like you weren't get Kim Johnson.
Clearly people were framing it as, oh, they helped the Nets keep
Kam Johnson's like, the Nets, we're gonna keep Kim Johnson. That's why
you make that deal. They needed space. Ag So between those two guys,
Alec Burks, Boyermardanovitch, I like what they did. I'm so high
on Kade and I have more belief in our Sarah Thompson's jumper than I do
Amen thompson jumper, and I agree, oh you do. Okay, that's
just my very like surface level. Haven't seen a lot of these guys,
but watching them and they both just might be really good. So I love
kind of a lot of the perimeter pieces they have in place. My one
concern, and I don't have a problem with the Isaiah Stewart extension, is
like I don't really love like this two big setup that it seems like they're
still married to a little bit maybe Monty Williams gets them away from that where
they don't view as like, oh, okay, we don't need to play
Stewart X amount of minutes or we don't need to play Marvin Badley at all.
And I don't know where they're at on the James Wiseman who like find
for them rehabilitation project, but like some of their not just best lineups in
terms of winning, but best lineups in turn of developing, like Cade Jay
and Ivy or Sara Thompson. To me is like if Boyan is at the
four and like you're kind of flushing, okay, Joe Harris is on the
court with him, or maybe Alec Burks is in addition, and then two
of the two or three of those those young guys, and I'm wondering whether
they will get to that setup enough to like streamline the development of their most
important players. Just my biggest concertain, no, I hear you. I
think Monty set like Monty system in general, what we've seen, what he
did in Phoenix and before that New Orleans, Like his system is predicated on
tons of ball movement and off ball movement, So maybe you can get away
with playing double big lineups if those guys are consistently shifting and moving, like
there's there's a world in which that works. But I agree with you.
I like not in the same realm of Orlando where they have to consolidate their
bigs and go get something else, but like they might have to shift things
around just to add some roster balance at some point. And maybe that happens
with Boyan. I know every year it seems like we're like, oh yeah,
Boyan Bogdanovich is gonna get traded. Uh, maybe that this is the
year that happens. I don't know. Uh, yeah, here is if
this is it was only a one year sysially signed, right or is there
a team option still on his deal? Like can't you remember at this point?
I think he doesn't have a team option, so we're not guaranteed.
So I mean he's he's a caps lock score so yeah, that is there
any really Like do you trust any of the dual big lineups? I think
it has to be like durn and Stewart. It's probably like I don't want
to see another big at all. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I know,
No, I agree with you. I think durn and Stewart makes a
lot of sense. Especially with Stewart trying to expand his game a little bit
and step out to the three point line, Like I don't know how successful
that's been, but the fact that he's willing to do that, like,
I think that makes sense. At least you have someone that is potentially going
to stretch the floor for you. I just trust guys that look like they
work really hard when there on the floor, and that's what Isaiah Stewart is.
Even if he's not even doing the right things and I'm not watching clothes
like, it's like that dude looks like he's trying. So I'm just gonna
believe in him. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yes, this
was great. Thank you for giving me so much of your time. Are
you able to tell our listeners where they can find you at all the fantastic
work that you do. Yeah, I appreciate you, man, Thank you
for having me. This was a lot of fun. Yeah. Just just
follow me on Twitter. You see the thing. If you're on YouTube,
you can watch the little just As bart heinything, or you can just follow
me on Twitter at just As Berhiny. Go and check it out. Appreciate
you fantastic Twitter follow covers the one of the reasons I still log on Twitter.
I do not tweet as much anymore. One of the people who tweets
you definitely want to read. I will definitely be pestering you again in the
future. So thank you so much for coming on and take care. I'll
talk to you too. Appreciate it. Man, Hey, let me know
when a Pascal trade is happening and we'll jump on again. I got you.