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Wade fifty to get fifty percent off now. Pw Dorgan Spreaker bring you the
Wade Killer Pro Wrestling podcast ten years ago. This week, Travis Bryan from
the Kilt Tortis postcast joined me on the flagship and we talked about whether Ross's
final angle helped or hurt Daniel Brian helped or hurt Randy Orton. Also did
triplations, Stephan and McMahon have their best night yet We're being sarcastic. Listen
to find out. Also, what about Hayman right Back and l Tarto.
We had live calls and emails sprinkled throughout the show. This originally live streamed
on October first, twenty thirteen, and it is today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling
Podcast ten years ago Flightship Flashback for Monday, October two, twenty twenty three.
Here we go, Welcome to the p Wtrch Live Cast. I am
Wade Keller, editor and publisher of the Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter since nineteen eighty
seven and also pwtorch dot Com since nineteen ninety nine, the Pwtorch apps since
two thousand and eight on iPhone, Android, Amazon, Kindle, Fire,
Samsung Smart TV and Blu Ray players, and Windows phones. Also and also
host of THEPW Torch Livecast since late two thousand and nine. I host on
Tuesday's End Friday's Friday's Our Interview Friday, where we have a special guest every
Friday. Last last Friday, we had Alex Greenfield, former WWE creative team
member, who spent nearly two hours with me discussing fascinating behind the scene stories
on WWE, including his experiences with Triple H and Stephanie McMahon back in the
mid two thousands. Nearly two hours, including by the way, the VP
after Show. Some of the best stuff was in the VP after show,
as VP members have been buzzing about that since Friday. This coming Friday,
by the way, Matt Morgan our scheduled guest. He is a return guest.
Last time he was on the show, he was with TNA, and
I'm not saying he held back, but you know, you get a different
interview when someone is with the company versus feeling free to speak a little more
openly because there's not a PR person listening in. And Matt Morgan is talkative,
a student of the industry and in the news. Where will he land
next or is he a victim of the current wrestling landscape where TENA is not
paying anyone but WWB doesn't want anyone from TNA. Well talk to him about
a lot of good stuff. This Coming Friday starts sending your email questions in
for Matt Morgan right now p W Torch Live Cast at gmail dot com.
You can send in questions for today's show to PW Torch Live Cast at email
dot com or give us a call on the phone line which is six four
six seven two one nine eight two eight six four six seven two one nine
eight two eight. Normally I am joined by Jason Powell of the website pro
Wrestling dot Net on Tuesday's Jason is on vacation this week, and so therefore
I am excited to present your co host for today, Travis Bryant, who
normally co hosts Mondays with Bruce Mitchellan is also the host of the East Coastcast
at Travis twavet right East coastcast dot com. Yeahs right, Willie, Thanks,
Yeah, it's great to have you on. I don't I think have
we only done Tuesday live cast together one or two other times once? And
I think we did a Monday show back in the wee early days of the
live cast end of nine, beginning of twenty ten, something like that.
Well, it's great to have you on. For those who don't normally listen
on Mondays because of Bruce, welcome to Welcome to Tuesdays. Uh, and
you listen on Tuesdays, it'll be good to experienced, Travis, and and
we encourage you to check out the East Coast Cast. It is not a
a PG show like like the live cast is here throughout the week. So
if you, uh, Travis, if you describe what it is about the
East Coast Cast for people who aren't aren't regular listeners, that that would draw
them to the show. How do you make your show stand out? Every
week? It's completely unfiltered. It's live, so it's unedited. Uh.
We take any and all calls, even the stupid ones, and we just
take fun of them. But we we just talk wrestling, and we invite
anybody to talk about any topic, and we mean any topic, and wrestling
kind of is just a bit of a backdrop at times. But no,
but when we do talk wrestling, which is at the forefront, Uh,
it's it's just from from the perspective of two guys and their and their pals.
You know, at the moment what happens, let's talk about it,
like guys. No, you know, no, no one's listening in except
you know, hopefully hundreds are thousands and but uh but yeah, we just
uh we keeps it. Uh absolutely one hundred. Who who's this? Uh?
Who's this co host? You speak of? Bar dre Pernell, the
uh the soft spoken Uh, he's he avoids the limelight. But he is
u a great co host and a great bed friend. So bar jre Pernell
follow him at pernell b by the way on Twitter. If you cared to
my impersonation of him is yeah, as far as it goes all right,
dre is that you? Yeah? All right? Well let's uh, let's
shift. Oh. By the way, Travis Bryant also is a participant in
ASPW Torch, which up until today day was a website exclusive at pwtorch dot
com unless you were a VIP member. VP members get access to all spout
torches on all our platforms. We for the month of October just check things
up or flipping it around. So now ask pwtorch. The staff version is
now going to be an app exclusive this month, and the SKPW Torch All
Star Panel is going to be a website exclusive just this month and then we'll
flip back in November. But we want to expose people who are just on
the website to the all Star Panel, maybe draw them over to our app
and same thing. People who are normally just app readers, we want to
get them over to our website and check out the version. So anyway,
if you're used to reading Travis's answers to Spwtorch and you want to keep reading
it on the web, you have to become a VIP member. Because VIP
members get everything and we don't have any exclusions. They get all kinds of
exclusive content. But if you're not a VIP member and you don't plan to
be, and there's a lot of you out there, and we still love
you, freeloaders, we you're gonna have to get read both the app and
the website. As always, tread both versions, but we're flipping them around.
Travis. Let's let's shift gears to the main topic of today, obviously,
which is last night's edition of Monday Night Raw, the final episode of
Raw leading to Battleground. There's a lot of ways we can go with this.
We're gonna get to call soon, but I want to hit two or
three talking points first, the first one being Travis, did the final angle
at the end do more good or more harm to a selling Battleground b Daniel
Bryan and see Randy Orton your thoughts on that. I thought Rady Orton came
out looking very strong. I mean, how could he have not. I
think Battle Brown is going to do one of the I think it's going to
do. It's going to be historically low buy rates. And it was the
first all in Daniel Brian look and no he was just a chump. I
thought he had a pathetic showing. Yeah, like, I mean, there's
a lot of things to dissect, and I did forty minute a forty minute
recap of Raw last night, and I'm not going to go in as much
detail as they did for VP members last night on this But the main issue
that I had with Daniel Bryan, among several and the way he was presented,
is that the show ended with the message to fans being Daniel Bryan is
determined to win a match to win the title on Sunday. We got that,
I mean, he turned up the volume, he seemed intense, and
that was good, but but two things were missing. One the sense of
Daniel Bryan can actually beat Randy Orton, because Daniel Bryan took it to Orton
at first, but then Orton, with no heel, cheating, no nothing,
just a straight up and up ring sidebrawl, got the better of Daniel
Bryan, got way the better of Daniel Bryan. So it didn't exactly communicate
the fans that you should be cheering for Daniel Bryan because he's a deserving champion.
What it kind of told fans is, yeah, Randy Orton's a tougher
guy, but if you love Daniel Bryan, maybe he'll get lucky on Sunday,
which brings us to the second problem Travis, which is, even if
he gets lucky on Sunday and somehow beats the guy who just beat the crap
out of him on rawn a one on one, even Stephen fair fight,
even if he gets lucky and wins, because you know, he did win
last month, that he did pin John Cen, even though they never talk
about that, Daniel Bryan didn't address, nor did the announcers, nor did
anybody the elephant in the room, which is, if Daniel Bryan wins,
will it beat the third month in a row that management Tripleach and Stephanie decide
they don't want him to be the face of their company and they're going to
find a way to get the title off of him again. How does that
not get talked about the last two weeks by Daniel Bryan, who's just kind
of happy, go lucky. Hey, I'm just gonna try again, ignoring
the fact that even if he succeeds Travis, there's a history that Tripleach will
find a way to get it from him, and the announcers aren't even talking
about it. And to me, maybe it's a positive because they've realized it's
a bad storyline. They don't want to draw attention to it, but it
is a gaping storyline hole, and I think viewers needed something better to transition
away from having no hope than we just deciding we're just gonna drop it and
not talk about it and hope people forget right. I think people just assume,
well, there's going to be something wonky and it's finished. Why wouldn't
it be, That's why. And again that's going to go into the historically
low by rate that I'm predicting. Yea, and I just I don't,
I don't get again, I'm I'm a bit baffled myself. Like people at
home, they're sitting there, were waiting for this obvious issue to be addressed.
And again, for two weeks, we only had three weeks to build
this damn thing. But for two weeks he doesn't even say anything, and
then this week his comeback is about motivation. And I don't need anyone to
be motivated to get the title. Not I'm going to you know, even
without even addressing still without even addressing yeah, if I win, they could
take it away from it at any time, but just push I mean you
could have just push through that. They'll take it from me and I'll beat
you again because I beat you. That's what I do. I beat you,
Randy, and I'm going to pop your little shoulder out of its socket
and you're going to tap out, and I'm going to beat it three time
champions and then if I need to beat a four times hit. But none
of that, none of it, not a bit. And it pissed me
off watching and he didn't even touch on anything, and he went off into
this thing about motivation, and yeah, it came across and what we got
two references to viril in one show. And when you see a word that
you normally don't hear talked about, it's because the same writer probably promo for
two guys and just use the same word. This felt like the writer sat
down and said, Okay, how are we going to have Randy Orton talk
about what you know, Triple Ahi not giving him the title? How does
that make sense? You know? Because they're trying to they plant their flagpole,
which is well, Triple agis trying to prove that he's objective. He's
really not, but he'll do little things now and then to kind of show
he does what's best for business and is objective and that he is trying to
convey to fans. I'm going to be even handed, but there's always an
ultraior motive, and the ultraior motive their storyline is that Triplachi didn't just give
Randy Orton the title back because well we kind of saw with Stephanie they wanted
to bring the killer instinct out in him. So Daniel Brown was playing off
that last night, and I understand it. I don't think it's a great
storyline, but it just it did come across as kind of clunky, and
I don't again, I see these storylines that involve Orton, Bryan and de
facto Triplachian steph being done through this narrow lens of what do we do to
keep Triplachian Stephanie making sense but not really thinking how do we keep Daniel Bryan
himself strong? And the things you said, Travis are what fans of Daniel
Bryan want to hear, and that's end of anybody. I mean, it's
just like common sense, like why isn't the good guy saying like I beat
you on raw leading up to this, like in this summer, I've beatn
you. Excuse me, I've beatn you last month, clean as a whistle.
Fast count. You know nothing he needs to say too, that fast
count? Yeah, and why hasn't just as far as the fast count itself,
Brian touched on this maybe a week or two ago. Uh, but
we supposedly Brian and he not Hevner Armstrong. I mean he said that,
Triple Chian and stuff said it. They disgraced themselves, disgraced the company,
disgraced the industry. But he got a nice walking package and I'm here getting
beat up every week. Ye, so if we were, if we're both
disgraces, I mean, that's a ref I mean, I'm just the wrestler
trying to win. He's a he's an official, he has real power,
So why is he you know? But again that's just that would just be
too too logical and and and I don't know, are they are they thinking,
well, we kind of want some people to think Triple H is being
you know, honest. We can't hit it over, we can't be that.
I don't know. I'm just well, I think triplers are trying to
do and maybe this is this would be their explain nation is in order to
satisfy the board of directors, and they don't really talk about them. They
don't act like Stephanie and Triple Aachi and Vince have to act answer to anybody.
That just varies. If they don't, that's quarter and quarter. Well,
no, they don't talk about it. But if the if, the
implication is, and I'm giving them more credit than I think they deserve.
What you what I talked about last week, they're making us fill in our
own story That was the number one line on the right up of last week's
East Coast cast WW, making their fans write their own storylines like well,
maybe Triple just being dubious here, but that's ridiculous. Yeah, no,
you're you're right, and you're about to feed right into them. I'm giving
more credit than I mean, it's just the same. Well I'm not.
Yeah, no, I'm not trying to give them credit. What I'm trying
to do is find the motivation for where this storyline might be coming from with
the with the conclusion being they need to tell this story and as you said,
not leave it to the to the list, to the viewers to complete
it. But I'm just trying to think where in Triple h's mind. Does
he come why does he want to seem like he's doing what's best for business?
Is it possibly in his mind even though he fails to communicated to viewers
that well, I need to create the perception of being fair and doing what's
best for business because the board of directors is overseeing things and we ultimately do
on occasion answer to them. If that's the story, they need to tell
it. If it's not the story, what they're doing does not make sense.
And that's a problem with everything going on right now. All right,
thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next level with a VIP
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Let's let's talk about something else real quick in that, and then we'll
go right to calls after that. See them right back and Paul Hayman very
odd, memorable, but very odd. Uh, all kinds of subtexts,
some speculative. I can't even begin to go into some of the things that
I think they're trying to do with this storyline. Did you hate it?
Did you find it so absurd? It was actually kind of funny? Where
did you fall on this one? I didn't hate it. I found it
so absurd that it was absurd. I didn't think it's funny. I mean
I was kind of like, that was actually laugh obvious kind of thing.
Yeah, exactly creative. Okay, I get it because you're guys right,
you know, I got okay. But besides that, it was just absurd
and like what the hell? But again, I didn't hate it. It
was just like, okay, that was that was a different Now remember that,
Yeah, because it was good, But I don't, like you said
it was memorable? Is the point to get in the line? Sorry,
wait, but the line will you be a Paul Hayman guy, because I'm
wondering, like, what's he going to ask him? Yeah, because he's
not going to ask him to marry him it, yes, you know,
but okay, so that it was kind of like, oh that was cute.
Yeah, they had to go somewhere with it. And I mean,
is the idea to just I mean, is this just getting heat on Paul
Hayman for uh my how to get I think I think people are going to
be like, look, oh shucks, Like Hayman went out there and entertained
us with the with the you know, thanks man. I think that's kind
of weird. Do you think we're supposed to believe, Travis that Paul Hayman
is really infatuated with Rybeck and kind of a a straight man gay for him
type way? Like literally, I mean I guess. I mean that's a
fine. I mean, I could I could buy the storyline, but but
not No, No, I'm supposed to believe Paul Hayman picked but but again
he saved him. And it's like, hey, you know, okay,
that's a that's a somewhat logical you know, emotion or you know, whatever
it to have Okay, you can play off that. That's different. That's
fine, that's cool. But no, I'm I don't think to answer the
question. We're not supposed to believe it. It's fine, it's kind of
Kafavid. Yeah, sure, all right, Yeah, I just want to
make sure I don't go a full twenty minute. I can't believe I had
it got in eighteen minutes. It's flying by. I don't want to go
full twenty minutes, just without saying breaking bad. Okay, I got all
the way the chat room wanted that, Travis. Do you watch that show?
By the way, I do not. Okay, you gotta watch it.
Then here comes the lecture. Now that's it. You just gotta watch.
It's good. All right. Ratings are in and Raw last night did
a two point Have you seen the rating? Strad No, but now I
know they did a two point something. Yep, I don't know. I
didn't guess because Bruce didn't ask. I don't know what's your guests. From
my prediction, I think they would have done what they did the week before.
The two point eight one was last week slightly off to eight eight six,
Yeah, two point six eight, so they were down a little bit
more than you thought. Not a great deal. But it is the lowest
rating since Memorial Day. It's lowest rating I having my chart going back to
May. That sounds bad in a way. It is bad. If you
would have asked me when they started three hour raw where they'd be on a
you know, September thirtieth, twenty thirteen, I mean I would have said
probably in the two point five range. I mean just I thought, you
know, the three hour raw is gonna water down the rating. I know
you don't like talking about ratings, but it's no, no, no,
no, no, no, I actually have no I love ratings. So
and I bring this question. I mean, viewer versus viewership. You like
viewership nuver spending? Right? Oh yeah, you know I'm a viewership No,
but still the whole thing. I like it. But why do we
still talk about ratings? Wait? I just want to ask that question,
you know, and there's not the Monday Night Wars anymore. Why does it
matter? No? No, no, I no, I'm gonna answer it.
Because we yet more access across the board demographically historically and source to source
to source, we get more rating numbers than we do viewership numbers. So
in order to be able to present a comparison in terms of demographics when we
do the key demo numbers, and in order to have consistency from source to
source, because sometimes you get ratings from one place before another. In some
places give us just ratings, other sources give us ratings and viewership. Why
is it news? But why do we That's on my point, why the
whole thing? Why do we talk about it like in comparison to what?
And again it's and it's it's coming out of that question. Well, there
is no more nitro to compare it with. So why is it even something
we look? You know, if it goes up five percent, it's like,
that's not a news story, Like, shut up about it? Just
kind okay. So you're not asking why do we talk about ratings as opposed
to viewership. You're saying, why do we talk about ratings and viewership period
the idea as a story rating? It's because everybody in the wrestling industry cares
about it. I mean, it's the death. I mean, yes,
we could only talk about it once every three months if we wanted to,
and we'd cover the same territory. But we cover wrestling every single day,
and the fact that it did at two point six eight and not a two
point two point nine six, says the trend is a little bit down to
stead of a little bit up. I mean, I don't think we should
blow it out of proportion, but right now the rating is in, and
right now it's the top story of the hour in you know, two days,
rods doing you know, between two point six and two point nine most
weeks, same thing with Impact. It's a story for a day. But
generally speaking it's the larger issue is what it's the long term trend. But
I think we cover both, you know, at the Torch pretty fairly,
and we try to give the big picture of you speaking a big picture,
Travis. A year ago they did a two point five four ratings, so
they're actually up from where they were a year ago on the same episode of
Ross. So in that sense, it's a big three because they're a year
further into doing three hour format and they've managed, even without John Cena,
to be above year ago numbers. So if ww E just looking to pat
themselves on the back, that's actually a legitimate reason to pack them pat themselves
on the back. Sure, yeah, all right, let's let's go to
the phone lines and see what callers have to say. Got number of people
on hold? You can get in line six four six, seven, two
one nine eight two eight if you joined us Midstream Live. Travis Bryant is
my guest of the East Coast Cast, a PU Torch contributor for how many
years have you been doing the East Coast Castle? Five year? Oh for
the East Coast Cast? Yeah? Oh crap, Well it's like this three
years this September. Yeah, I thought you got just celebrating anniversary. So
well it's five years as East Coast Audio with the Torch period and in three
years on blow Talk Radio. Now awesome, very cool. So Travis usually
co hosts Bruce on Mondays and sometimes he talks a lot, and sometimes Bruce
doesn't let him talk much at all. Just depends on the week. And
if I if I, if I'm if I allow Bruce to spell, we
roll you. Yeah. All right, well let's let's go phone up phone
our phone calls first and begin with there it codes six five one on deck
five six one and two O two six five one. Please state your name
and where you're from. Hey, wait, this is Mike from Woodberry.
How are you doing today doing good. Haven't heard from you in a while.
What's up? What do you got for us? Well, yeah,
I'm finally available this time of day, so that's good. Yeah. A
couple a couple of questions for you, and one I think i'd like to
hear your thoughts. And this might be a better question for an online audio
or a article on the Torch, But you were really gung ho about right
around WrestleMania time, thinking the next six weeks are going to be very pivotal,
and coming out of it the six weeks after WrestleMania, and I actually
had three very good pay per views in a row kind of between WrestleMania and
then in the Summer Slam. It's all kind of come to a screeching halt,
obviously, And I want to know where you kind of see some of
the lower card guys like the Wyatt's and Fandango who had a lot of backing
at first and they cooled off considerably. I want, I wanted your thoughts
on where some of those lower mid card guys are at right now and where
you see Dusty Rhodes involvement this Sunday at the pay per view as well.
Cool? Yeah, good, topics, Tarvis, I gotta throw to you
first. How do you think ww's done with? I don't even know if
mid Carter's right. Were new characters like Fon Donggo and the Wyatt who happened
to be you know, Fondango's certainly a mid Carter. Your thoughts on how
ww's done since April and may with anybody look this up last night with Bruce
that we're a year into this talent, this use infusion. I think,
you know with the starting if you want to started with the Shield. They
showed up in like October and and here we are a year later, and
who are these guys? Who are these people? Like the why it's I
mean they've only been around four months or so, but still, who who
are these people? What's their motivation? Why are they here? Why do
they care about being in this structure of pro wrestling? We don't know who
We just don't know who they are. And that's where they really would have
boiled down to. And I think that's kind of that's going to be the
norm. We're not gonna I mean, because do we really even know who
John Seena is? I think we know who John Seena is, well,
character yeah, No, that's why I'm yeah, but he's well, yeah,
they've hadn't didn't have much choice with when they push and push and push.
You got to kind of flush those things out. But we don't know
who these these people are, and and become WrestleMania thirty, they're just going
to be a few of them, not all of those guys are going to
be on WrestleMania, and they're going to just be cogs in that opening hour
that opened in two hours of WrestleMania. And I don't think they're going to
mean anything. Yeah maybe the shield. The shield meant something at WrestleMania twenty
nine, and they'll mean something, yeah, but that's it. Do you
think Fondegos has gotten the appropriate push, Travis since his you know EBB and
flow since his debut? Yes, yeah, I kind of do too.
You know, I know some people thought because of a big crowd reaction after
Assomania, and I just yeah, I think because of some of the crowd
reactions to Fondogo, people have thought, well, he should get a bigger
push, And I mean, you know, watching him on Total Deep you
watch Total devis right, Travis, and you've got your opinions on the show,
I thought Mark Curtis or what's Fondago's real name, Johnny Johnny Curtis,
thank you, Yeah, I was. I always think Mark Curtis and always
trot myself up. What do you think of how he came across on that
show? He came across like well, in the early stuff he was just
kind of backstage, but then when he got the one episode he was a
featured a little bit in he was a you know, some scum bad guy.
Yeah. Like, I just not really fault him for that. He's
just trying to score with the hot chick right right ad at him. Yeah,
if the way he went about it, like, gee, that's your
that's what you do. Yeah, I guess with with with his character,
I mean it is it's just kind of a one note gimmick and until well,
his gimmick in the n XT though, Wait, he was the creepy
I mean, and that's like who he is. That's I think that's how
why he came across. When I saw the Hilda Deeva stuff, I'm like,
oh, no, wonder the creeper gimmick and the n HT works so
well because it's just him and he's like Oh, I can do it these
like fantasy things or I'm like smelling girls feet and coming up from behind him
and crying it on him. Oh yeah, sure, I can put my
all into that absolutely. So I guess my point is is Fondango's character,
the Fandango character is somewhat limiting, and it has a certain spot, and
it's kind of likes Los Metadores with El Tardo. It's there to play a
certain role. It's kind of the broadest play spot. You know. You're
there to add a little zas, a little collar, a little circus like
atmosphere to www house shows, so that it, you know, but but
there's a certain spot for it, and there's a certain limit on it,
and it takes something special to break away from it. And I just don't
think Fondango has shown me that he should be much higher on the cards.
So I'm actually fine with where I'm fine, not great, but fine with
what they've done with with with him, and actually even the shield. I
know, people, I have a bigger problem with Dolf Siegler and and Uh
and Daniel Bryan. I don't think they should have turned Dolf unless they were
ready to really go all out with him as a baby face, because I
think they've lost the lightning bolt of energy get from turning somebody if you turn
them and you're not ready to push them. And I know the concussion screwed
it up and that would be their excuse. But that's to me the biggest
loss since then. But I mean, just looking at the Rosterman, they
lost John Cena. I don't think the tribes had the wide family lost momentum
or are they just kind of treading water until the next stage and whatever the
next thing you're done, Well, I think just I think just by almost
by default they've had they had no choice but to lose momentum. They aren't
gonna come in with those in those vignettes, and then the whole mystique,
I oh, what are they going to look like in the ring? Okay,
well what were you going to look like? In singles? What are
they gonna look like? Beating up people are gonna look like? Selling?
And so yeah, sure they've lost momentum, but they've lost it, and
then they're still they're still getting featured. They're still they're kind of in in
their spot. They're not going up, they're not going down. They're you
know, they'll beat up three and B every week or you know, I
wonder it'll be interesting to see what they do when they if they put him
in there with Lows Matadors, or will they you know, keep them apart.
Not because I think Lewis Madadors has some kind of drawing power or ability
to get over in the future. I just it would be interesting if they
just to see it's like immediate squash these guys, all right, just established
him as a joke Mattador thing with the little guy in the in the silly
suit, in the Philly full thing. So yeah, I mean, I
think when they decide to turn up the White Family and get him in a
full fledged program and not just kind of have them in they're kind of treading
water introductory phase. They did the thing with Kine that's going to resolve itself
at some point. And you know, I mean the fact that the announcers
aren't talking more about it and talk a little bit about it, but it's
kind of weird. Well, I was just watching it. Oh it was
what I was watching the Nitro from nineteen ninety seven yesterday while doing some bookkeeping
for the business, and uh, and it was like Tony Schmony's like,
we haven't seen Sting for six weeks. Where is he? Everyone's talking about
it, and it reminded me of the Kane storyline. Kane's gone missing,
and it's just it seems like it's it, but who cares. When he
comes back, they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, they kind of
dropped the thing on his head sort of, And I just think, yeah,
I know all about that clap for this because it's Kane and he's back.
I guess I didn't really realize he was going, but okay, yeah,
do you remember when Hulk Hogan shocked the world and formed the New World
Order? Or when Stone Coat Steve Auston passed down on the Sharpshooter to break
the hit Man Hart. I'm Torch contributor Frank petty Any and I've reviewed these
shows and many more from my exclusive VIP podcast, Pro Wrestling Than and Now.
Together with a rotating chair of co hosts, we go back ten,
twenty, even thirty years, review pay per views from top to bottom,
talk about where the wrestlers were at the time, and compare what took place
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the Apple Podcasts app Visit pwtorch dot com, slash go vip for deedsails and
sign up for him. Hey, Mike, remind me of your second question.
Uh, where you guys see Dusty Rhodes involvement Sunday. There have been
rumors that he was going to be in the match. I'm really glad to
see he's not because of his advanced age, and I'd like to see him
not wrestful because of what happened to Jerry Ler quite frankly, but I want
to see I want to know what you guys think coming this Sunday, Travis.
I just watching Dusty roll into the ring last night. I mean it's
clear that they're just from watching him move and then the way that the Shield,
you know, they've they've prevented him big show hugging him so we don't
take a bump, the Shield stomping on him from a down position, not
having him take a bump. They're being very careful with Dusty. They don't
want, you know, an issue, and I mean Jerry Lawler in a
way was an isolated incident. But it also isn't in the sense that people
even without Jerry Lawler, I don't. Yeah, you want, but these
are the same people that put may Young out there in those situations. So
I still I still have that image Travis made almost fell through the rose bad
was right there, which you on edge of my seat, like only crad
somebody grabber no no yeah, no, yeah yeah. And more than just
getting thrown through the table and all that stuff, the the image of her
almost all looking backwards through those groups. I mean, and we haven't seen
her do anything since then. I think w E was like, okay,
we that was that was true. She's on someone's arm every two people are
like walk with her every time she's on camera. And so yeah, even
without Lawler, you don't have Dusty doing anything. And I think they officially
said he wants. His stipulation is I want to be in their corner so
they'll provide typical kind of you know, rallying cries for the baby faces and
some distraction, you know, and a thing for the camera to focus on
during the match. Do we get a b I think we have to get
a bone elbow. Don't we do the shield charge at them one at a
time and take some bone elbows. Would that get a pop or is that
two n WA or what? I don't think. I don't think even I
don't think it would Buffalo. I don't know, but it's a pay per
view audience. I still I think the pop would be tepping at best.
Uh. But even if even if they knew we could over, I don't
think they would he would do it. What would you? I don't think
they would allow they would. I don't think they would script that to happen.
No. As a sidebar to Mike's main question, what do you think
of of of Triple H's a portrayal of Dusty as you know, not making
it outside of that, that little n WA thing that he was part of
it, the little Florida things, Florida mad even well he said Florida and
that n w A but liked he okay, yeah, he said, you
know, you're bitter because you didn't make it outside of Florida. And I
think he said something like that, that n WA thing, you know that
you're probably it was just it was because Triple H. By the way,
I mean, there's times where Triple A Harley race enthusiasts, and yeah,
yeah, Triple H knows his history and he knows the end up with the
A was big. I know that Stephanie may not know that because he grew
up in the McMahon could you know, Bubble. I mean, you know,
there's a sense if you're in New York and you're in the Northeast and
you're part of the company that you know won the eighties, won the nineties
and is dominant in the two thousands, you know you think, well,
we were always the biggest and by far, and they just weren't. In
the end of WA was was huge. In fact, we have a asked
the Torch All Star panel question of regarding who is bigger than a w A
or the n w A on Today's on Today's post on the website that historians
Greg Oliver and George Shire responded to. But yeah, I mean the Triple
H knows better. He did that to get heat with basically historian n WA
fans. He knows better. Do you think Wait, if he could go
back and change, like if he could go back twenty years or whenever he
started letting people know Harley Race was his guy, and you just say,
you know, Bruno is my guy. So when all those DVDs when he's
talking about you know, he's like, oh yeah, Bruno grew up.
You know, I was raising you know, the Northeast because it was my
guy every Saturday whatever, you know, instead of Harley R. I mean
that's kinda like, you know, Vince is like, oh yeah, now's
your guy. Huh. It doesn't matter at this point, but I just
wonder if he thinks about that. Yeah, well yeah, so Mike,
did we cover your topics well? And then some oh absolutely a great discussion.
Uh. The only two points I'll leave you with that I kind of
have is, uh, you know, I think Triple H would have if
Killer Kowlowski was alive and needed to be involved in an angle, somehow Triple
H would make fun of his two pay I mean, there isn't anybody that's
safe from his rap. So I just kind of brushed that up. I'm
not offended, but I wasn't offended by that comment or anything any other kind
of sidebar comment I have is if over the years, we're going to establish
that Daniel Bryant is a troll over that a watch TV who is a vegan
and is weird and reads books and stuff like that. If that's work,
if that's what we're going to establish, then uh, all that gets you
one of the Bellat twins at the end of the day, then I'm gonna
stop watching television, quit eating meat, and grow facial hair because I because
whatever he has it, it obviously worked. So I was kind of off
put by including one of the Bellat twins and that kind of I don't know
which is which, to be quite honest with you, Yeah, but nois
well one of them has plastic surgery and the other one has it. I
don't know which is which. Okay, I'm just saying all that, But
but you're not saying you don't you don't notice a difference. Just I don't
know who's okay, gotcha? Ah yeah, yeah, okay, But that's
all. That's all. That's all I'm saying. That's all. Leave you
with guys, Scot Daniel Bryant, Thanks, thanks, Mike, appreciate it.
And way to shoe horn their relationship in there and leave and then not
only so she can run out there and boo, stop it, stop it,
you know, make him look even more pathetic and weak. They got
beat up in front of his fiance now not even his Carol is what a
chump? Why would I pay to see him even if I know he's gonna
win? Like I don't whatever people want fans, Yes, they like an
underdog, but they like an underdog. And Bruce has been sounding do you
have to end every statement with yes, yeah, or you know, like
every big like yeah. You know, it's like almost like what do you
like let the crowd pop themselves like you don't have to. It's every instance,
it's it's popular, it's over now. You don't need to force it
to the point where it seems kind of kind of clicheated, and it was
just weird, like you wouldn't say yes at the end of what you just
said. Yeah, the does I have almost my brain just doesn't want to
try to figure out what's going on in the Diva's division on Raw and try
to meld that into what's going on on Total Diva's. Try to explain to
me to help me understand. Does what happened last night with Nikki and and
Daniel Bryan Brie and Daniel Bryan. I think I was just thinking it's easy
to remember because it's anyway with Brian and Dania Bryan. Does it make any
sense compared to what happened the last three four weeks on Ross since they started
doing the Total Diva storyline, even though they never really told people much about
enough to well, they hugged last week, so that was your in,
Yeah, that was your you know, and I think, but how about
this in relation to a j and what they're trying to do with that,
Well, Bree still was a heel. She's like doing the l and her
fourhead like loser. You know, she's still a freaking jerk, you know,
and care as I'm Bree Bey, you know, as Brie Bella,
the the Diva, the wrestler. She's still you know, So it's yeah,
no, totally it. Yeah. I mean this guy who like is
so socially conscious you would assume and read books, how dare he and you
know takes care of his body inside and now uh, he's like why would
he be with this, you know exactly this lady? I know, yeah,
no it did. It's a mess and it's just you know, they
they booked W W E books for convenience on a week to week basis,
and they don't care about uh going backwards, like and there's no spoilers here,
but I will do a breaking bad reference because I did listen to Vin
skill against uh near hour and a half plus, you know, like hour
and a half podcast yesterday. I think he was on Colbert. I was
pretty good last night. Yeah, yeah it was. And uh, you
shouldn't be watching any of any spoilers, Travis. You gotta watch the show
start to finish, a trial void spoilers. The best show on television in
history, probably all right, the but nevertheless, Vin Skilling was talking about
how when they when they are writing scripts week to week, because they didn't
plan this whole series out start to finish, there was not an outline for
the show they I mean the last night on the podcast yesterday, Breaking that
Insider, he went over all these different scenarios that they brainstormed, and I
mean, they clearly settled on the best finish compared to all the other options
they thought of. But he said, what they would do is they go
back and think about what the actors did at a little facial expression, a
little reaction that was just the actor just being in the moment, and they
would look at that detail from two seasons ago and go, we're going to
use that as a launching point for this new direction for this character, because
fans of the show who pay attention to detail will appreciate that rewarded them for
noticing that two years ago, and that the actor was in the character felt
it reacted to the situation organically. We're going to use that as a springboard
for this this season's direction that this character goes in that rewards a viewer.
W w E is the opposite they go Vincent Man's attitude is, well,
if it happened in the past, nobody remembers, so we don't have to
worry about it. And by past, maybe that's even two or three weeks
ago. And if someone paid he's really close attention to things, they're a
mark and they're stupid, and that's not the business we're in. We're forward
thinking. It's like, it's such different approaches to writing. And I know
there's somewhat different genres, but and I said this on the Keller Hotline,
if you could make pro wrestling better by simply being less lazy, being more
professional, and having a better attention to detail and all other things are equal,
and you end up better, why not do that? Because I think
there is a benefit to being consistent with your narrative and caring week to week
about consistency and drawing from your history in a way that makes sense. I
think that helps drive storylines. I mean, Vince Gilligan went the first episode
of this season five. He did two things where he had no idea where
they were leading, but there were flagpoles he put in there, and he
says, we're going to have to write with these things in mind to have
them make sense. And they weren't so specific. He didn't know. He
wouldn't have lots of options, but he had lots of directions. He could
have gone with it, but it helped. It helped steer him. It
gave him a direction, goes, we have to end up resolving this in
the end, he'll lead up. We just sticks flight pulls in the ground
and they don't. They don't actually care about whether they're going. It's gotten
to the point where not you don't you're not getting the you're not getting the
typical it's just wrestling yeah kind of attitude. Now it's like it's almost like,
uh, you know, like what do you expect? Like you're looking
too much into it. The Internet's like like Why is it an Internet thing?
Why? Like, Okay, this is the platform to like bitch and
moan about it. Sure, but it's not an Internet issue. It's like
a storytelling thing in you know. So I think it's even it's even getting
more pervasive because it's like not even just it's you know, just I come
on, it's just wrestling. It's like now it's like you're looked at.
It's like, oh, you're in, and you're gonna complain about it too,
which you know, I guess I understand because we could just not watch,
but there's nothing else to watch. I want they want, They just
want us to eat, eat what they serve us and not complain because they're
the royal great McMahon family and the last surviving relevant wrestling promotion and and that
should that should tell us all we need to know. So just you know,
eat what they serve us. And you know, I mean, we
could do a five minute show and just say how great they are, but
like I say, we're not. We're not Triple H's mom and dad.
You know, we're not here to just worship him. We're not fanboys for
w W who just go yeah, you know, I mean I can be
somewhat of a fan boy for a couple of my local sports teams, but
I don't disrespect. In fact, I look to the reporters who are objective
and aren't you know, they're not their worse for the team. You know
that in every other in every other genre, that's expected. Camp Root,
you can't clamp your hands, Larry Fitzgerald, Dan can't even you know,
pump his fish horse son. You know, the press pause is in the
press box because there are reasons, and in wrestling it's that's none of that
is respected. Yeah, absolutely, all right, Well, let's try to
go to color number two forty five minutes. Is in the show Travis our
number six or six seven, two one, nine, eight two eight.
We are taking VIP members first on the VIP Express line. If you're not
sure what that is, what we tell you about it all the time on
vi IP audio, and we can't say the secret on the air or people
would line cheat and steal to get ahead and line. So let's go to
h air code five six one. Next. Please stay to name and where
you're from. This is maps, North Carolina. How's it going doing good?
Matt? Thanks for letting us know you were calling ahead, What have
you got for us to stay? Absolutely? I got three questions for you.
First, with the Breaking Bad talk no spoilers, no spoilers, and
no spoilers just step okay, spoilers all right, Breaking Bad and PW Torch
fans want to know what is Wake Kellor. Star rating for the Breaking Bad
finale? Oh, five stars, five starts awesome? Yeah eight I first
words out of my mouth, first words out of my mouth, start Travis.
After it was over that the first words were a plus. I mean,
I just I there's not I mean, there's a couple of things I
knitpicked on the Keller hotline, not I talked about it. I did a
normal length Keller hot line on Sunday night, and then I did like eight
minutes talking about Breaking Back because people asked me to do that, you know,
and so you can tune out before then. It's not like it was
in place of wrestling coverage. I'd one email complaining going what you know?
But I was a spoiler spoiler running all that. But yeah, I like
there are two or three little coincidences that I think we're relatively unavoidable, not
a big deal. And if you can kind of talk your way into seeing
how you know, Walter White probably had alternate plans and things didn't work out
perfectly. And even even Vince Gilligan acknowledged that on his podcast. Yeah,
you know, you kind of have to if that didn't work, he could
have done this and that. But yeah, A plus five stars absolutely greatest
finale to any series that I've seen. There's a lot of great series I
haven't seen. I haven't watched the Sopranos yet, believe it or not.
But people who whose podcasts I listened to watch all the series and rank them
all and love the Wire and the Sopranos have justified the ones that have had
finales, the ones that are that they believe are great, great series.
The Shield odds on and on there, and I know it's it's sort of
like, you know, when there's a great USC fight, it's like greatest
fight ever. And Dana White kind of makes fun of people at the press
conference going in three months, this is going to blend in with all the
other great fights. You've just got the adrenaline rush, and I get all
that. But the people who really are critical the show when they think they
should be all Matt Unison in Unison, saying this was probably the greatest final
episode to one of the great all times TV series. It just really came
together. Vince Kelligan's really happy with it too. I mean you can just
tell he's proud of himself and the staff. But that's it. I'm sorry
I'm gushing too much, but it's a great Joe. You can support us
on Patreon and get these shows with ads and plugs removed, the Wait Killer
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it out patreon dot com slash PW Torch v I P. That's patreon dot
com slash PW Torch VIP and you can also upgrade two other tiers and receive
even more benefits through Patreon. Go ahead back, Yeah, I agree,
I loved it. Yeah. Two more quick topic. It seems like the
storylines in WW are kind of going backwards, like becoming more watered down instead
of you know, building up like the CM punk thing like it started with
the Big Nats with Brock Glasmer and then got watered down to Curtis Axel,
and now it's getting water down the right back. No, right back,
Bryan, right back to step up from Curtis. I disagree with you on
that, but it's clad's close, all right. Well, someone on the
cham room sit there watering down the Paul Hayman guy. Gimmick was right about,
you know, and I say, Paul Hayman's life in the storyline.
So, I mean, my god, if you're gonna be Paul, if
you're not, if you save Paul Hayman's life from a guy who wants to
break your face and you don't become Paul Hayman guy from that, I can
I have storyline wise, I can deal with that. But if you're if
you're one of those Internet smarts like t Blache would snidely say, yeah,
right back, certainly isn't a Paul Hayman guy in that rest. I don't
think Paul sat around a year ago going, oh man, if I could
have just had him in ecor bys and control of TNA, I try to
higher Ryback. I mean, I don't think Ryback qualifies as a genuine Paul
Hayman guy. But I think Paul Hayman had something something to say about him
being his next guy as opposed to Big Ee or you know, somebody else.
Yeah, it just seems like the storylines is going backwards, like like
even with Danie O'Brien, the belt and the Jaws confetti and he beats John
Cena on the Big Gastommers plan on stage, and now it's like it's just
becoming watered down with all this Randy Orton Triple H stuff. It just seems
like their storylines are going in reverse, like all the big moments happened,
and now we're getting the water down version rather than building up to those moments.
I totally hear that, Travis, What do you think I mean,
I think he's I think he's on the Sun's in a Yeah, Paul the
fuse. Yeah, if you're looking at the like you know a graph or
a chart, yeah, it's peaking around me. But but I would say
this in their defense that WrestleMania, they booked to peak at Mania, they
booked to peak at SummerSlam, and now we're kind of in the all season
where you know, like you said, you know it's NXT in the shield,
it's when they kind of try to debut new new gimmick sometime you know,
between you know, sometime in September and October tends to be when they
try to start some new stuff up. They've got the three pay per views
in a row rapid fire, so they can't really do full fledge finishes.
I mean, there's just a lot of things kind of seasonally working against this
being a peak period. They're going to downshift a little bit headed into January
and March, and that's just that's the nature and the ebb and flow of
w w E. They don't have seasons, but they do, and this
is in a way a down season. So in that respect, I wouldn't
expect them to top rock Lessner or to not be I mean, there's I'm
not saying there aren't better ways to keep Daniel Bryan hot. But we shouldn't
be shocked that this isn't that we're not seeing the Paul Hayman Punk feud growing
Travis is them. Is CM punk himself losing any ground in the way that
this storyline is going. Yeah, I don't think he can say anything,
but yeah, yeah, but again it's now losing ground. You want to
be a little more. I don't know is is he is? He's spinning
his wheels a lit all? Is he are? But that happens. I
mean you have to you know, that's one of those things. It's like,
Okay, well you're not going to be you know, you just look
at you know, you just look at the last six you know, he's
just started January. You know, Rock Rock, Undertaker, Brock. How
can you keep that? How can in October? What could he do in
October that would make you say anything? But he's, uh, he's kind
of not really doing anything, Like whoa look at what he at the first
half of this year, the first two thirds of his year was like yeah,
you know, yeah, I mean go Undertaker, right, no,
Rock Rock, then Undertaker, in the Undertaker then Brock. Yeah, that's
the ridiculous stretch of you know, the main event talent working with yeah,
I mean Matt. With that in mind, it would be tough to not
have to get the perception that Punk is downshifting a little bit. I'm not
quite sure what they could have done from a star Power standpoint to not make
it look like he's kind of moving down an ouch with kurtif Axel and Rabbick,
which I just think those storylines should have peaked with those moments rather and
then after those moments they should have shifted to something totally new with Daniel Bryan
and Kayme Punk Raban starting with the big moment and then watering down the storylines,
you know, like this stuff should have been happening before, and then
those big moments with Lessner and and you know, Brian winning and confetti,
they should have kind of that SummerSlam, is what I guess I'm saying,
and then they should have moved on to something totally new with those characters.
Well, I mean there's yeah, there's no doubt that. I mean,
Daniel Bryan peaked at SummerSlam during the celebration and it was all Downhill winter Blache
glombed onto the Daniel Brown's popularity and and you know became the story, and
Orton became the story, not Daniel Bryan. And then I mean we've been
through all that, so yeah, he's been heard about it anyway, Matt,
thanks for recall. Appreciate it. I had one more, Oh sure,
go ahead. Sorry, yep, just about just with all the talk
about heels and the effectiveness of playing a heel and stuff like that. A
lot of stuff going on with Triple H and Randy Orton stuff. Who do
you think has been the best deal in the past fifteen years? The criteria
being who played their role the best, not who drew the most money,
who won the belt, but who do you think has been the most effective
heal? Not counting characters you know, like Paul Hayman Evince, but in
the past fifteen years, what wrestler do you think it's say their role the
best is a heal? That's that's another thank again. Okay, Matt,
Matt, don't go. Don't go because that's the type of question that I
like sent to, like you know, for the way Keller hot line,
because I can read the question, I can think about it and that kind
of thing. Give give me a few candidates that you had to mind because
you've thought about this since it's your question. Give Travis and I a few
candidates kind of pick from, not that we won't come up to somebody you
don't mention, but throw through three four names at that. Do you think
our candidates? Yeah, I was, I was actually having some trouble,
like you know, yeah, I don't know anything off the top, somebody
that popped, somebody that just popped in my mind, as far as just
the way they cleared a role and they need stand out, Like he really
gets food. I know he hasn't like had any BIG's user and cues or
anything, but he goes out there and he does a good job at making
the crowd hate him and wanting him to be penned. So so your criteria
pretty good, Yeah, Matt, So your criteria is not sssarily being a
main event draw your criterias who actually is a genuine heel who gets heal heat.
Yeah, I mean, I mean you have to do runs because it's
you know, Jared Code eight to twenty ten, age three oh four to
oh six, Like he's like that brock Lesner currently JBL. Definitely when he
came back a year or so ago. And yeah, yeah, I guess
Rock was Brock was kind of an important guy when Rock left and then Rock
totally, but yeah, you know that's not his Uh again, you're that's
not his criteria? Oh no, no, I know I'm kind of answering.
I guess sure by way and then and then JBL that was really good.
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean when you when you kick a Mexican
in the ass across back across the border. I mean, how do you
not love that guy? Yeah, so, Matt, I again, that's
the topic, probably not best for this format to cover adequately, but maybe
send it in too, both me and Bruce, uh, you know,
for for the VP shows, because we like to do ten fifteen minutes and
sometimes with Bruce an hour on that kind of stuff. And it's a good
topic. So yeah, send that in. Appreciate the call. Let's uh,
let's go to our next call with another VIP Express color here Eric code
six two three six two three. Thanks for holding so on. Please stay
your name and where you're from. Bie. This is born in Austin.
Comments from Seeings Arizona. Hey Brian, good from you. What's going on?
Good to you? Hear from you and travels on a Tuesday. Yeah,
by way way, this is and that's so much Travis. By the
way way, this is the first time you and I fasted to each other.
Oh really, well, I feel I know you well from all your
emails, and it's great to talk to you. I absolutely genuinely appreciate your
support and your membership, and every time I see an email from you.
I know it's gonna be a good one. So enough enough kissing, but
though go ahead, correct, I agree, I agree about that first.
First of all, normally I'm not here at home at this time, but
I'm a victim of the government shut down. I'm a contractor that I've worked
for the Air Force and you know we're basically told not to come to work
today. So that's really want I'm calling now. Unfortunately. Yeah, I
love the story the World War two veterans who showed up at the war memorial
in DC today and got turned away. You know, sorry, you can't
go in, And I mean it's just yeah, it's go go out.
Those are just a bunch of thought liberal stop stories. But yeah, putting
a camera on those poor bar it's a whole saint. The whole thing's in
a barratt. It's it's funny. It's I'm not getting into politics state because
I have my opinions aren't always predictable, and I don't think anyone else tune
into here, but it is. It's on a lighter note. I guess
it's kind of somewhat comical when when you're on Facebook and you get to see
when stuff like this happens the bubbles different people live in and the pride some
people take and not living in a bubble and just acting like there's false equivalency
across the board. It's it's quite the day. I've I've It's hard,
but I've I've been. I've been not trying to be zero political on Facebook
anymore because I took Bruce's advice on that, and I think it's good advice.
But just for me, maybe a round election time will change. I
would agree, Yeah, go ahead, I'd agree, and we'll get off
the Yeah, we'll get off policies, gonna go back to wrestling or breaking
back, and I have and this is yeah, this is more. This
is like a little more in the week old. But about the Shield,
And I've heard about this on all the Torch shows, the p w P
Torts Live Cash shows, Left to say about the Shield eleven on three,
the thing that and then some people complaining that, well they're trying to either
term face or they might become facial, or we're they're going to become faces.
Then one thing I think that everybody should remember that and they showed it
last night twice, is that for the most part, the Shield has won
by you know, cheating or triple teaming. Yeah, they've gotten a lot
of clean tense, but then the majority of their their work has been either
jumping people or you know, a legal tag or maybe the replents fly by
and something happens. So they're never it's in me except for that. Yeah,
like you said, way how they coming lamps back? And Triple late
said it will be eleven on three. Yeah, But other than that they've
been total heeled completely forgot about that last night or not forgot about it,
but forgot like or not forgot, but it was just like, yeah,
nothing, I'm not We're not better over the eleven on three. No,
not even a week later. Is there any ramifications from that? Nobody's I
know, you know not. Yeah, I told Bruce last night, like
that's what's going to happen. They're not even going to bring it up in
that context of artist shield like manage Triple H or is Triple H still going
to is he still out to punish his sheep? Nope, don't even talk
about it's not even well it's it's and I kind of I kind of do
this as a technique and sometimes it gets like lost on Bruce, but I
gotta bring him up. But like I said last week, well you know,
if the shield is turning baby face, you know, maybe this,
you know, it might be a better way to do it. But this
is planning the seed for their baby face turns. So it totally makes sense.
But if that's not the intent, it's Ludacris, it's ludacristen onjust fible
and you know amateur hour and blah blah blah and indictment of triplagianisic man.
And look again again with the with the how people like view you know,
wrestling now fans, the people that you know that they count on, they
just have them trained. Last night on the chat room off, I don't
have to hear about this eleven on three match again, like it was the
main event for the show last week, and you're like pitching like, oh,
shut up about it. It's for crying out loud. It just happened.
It's a topic of discussion and just move on. This is why we
get abused and treat it like we do as fans. We don't deserve really
long term storylines and breaking bad type suspense and they don't deserve that. We
crap all over it. Anyway, we as a whole, as the internets,
you know, it's like, yeah, people give me a hard time,
like Wade, you're being so hard on Triple ch Why are you so
obsessed with him? And it's like, no, I'm not obsessed with them.
He's the central heel on the number one show in the industry I cover
full time, who also happens to be air apparent to Vince McMahon, the
most dominant promoter in history. He's married to the daughter of Vince McMahon,
and he is the initiative, the initiator of the Performance Center, and he's
putting himself out there like he never has before. With a grant Land interview.
It's like, he's what we call in the news and worthy of incredible
day to day scrutiny and coverage, and so you know, I'm sorry,
but I'm I'm not gonna switch to talking about ro O Wah at length because
instead of Triple H. When Triple H keeps making news because he's the central
figure in TV and obviously the driving force behind a lot of the top storylines
and happens to be co running the top company. So yeah, exactly,
it's like drive us is our job, and because something happened more than seventy
two hours ago doesn't mean we have to drop it and move on. Sometimes
we do when I would do too often in this age, I think about
how differently I cover wrestling now and how much less reflective I am to a
fault than in the pre Internet days. Doing the Progressing Torch newsletter, I've
done that since nineteen eighty seven. We didn't start a website till nineteen ninety
nine. The first twelve years, first twelve years and two months of this
it was I mean I was doing daily nine hunder lines for a long stretch
of time in the nineties, but it was do a newsletter, step back,
exhale for thirty six hours, kind of start planning the next thing,
reflect spend a couple of days writing an article talking about you know we used
to do. I did a Midsummer annual for the first sever years of the
Torch where we would do six month awards, like through the mid year while
the leading candidates for Match of the Year wrestl or the Year Top Heel,
and there was so much more time for reflection, and part of that was
we didn't have three hour raws and to our Impacts and to our smackdowns and
NXT on Hulu, and totally it's like there's so much coming at you so
fast there isn't time for reflection. But it's all the more reason to make
sure that we don't drop topics after seventy two hours. And when something relatively
ludicrous in every fundamental way, like an eleven on three match with eleven baby
faces against three heels, including several main event baby faces on that team,
happens, it's drives. You don't just let them off. The oak can
go well. Seventy tours went by. It's kind of like the political cycle.
Now. If a politician just lies, lies for whatever kind of corrupt
reason, once twenty four hours goes by, they know they're off the hook
because the whole new cycles onto something else and somebody tweet a picture of their
parts and you know they'll talk about that, or some stupid pop tart will
yea sugar butt and yeah. Every Sunday night, catch Wrestling Night in America
on Pwtorch Dailycast dot Com, hosted by me Pwtrch columnist Greg Parks. Each
week, I'll welcome a co host from the Torch family to discuss the big
shows and pro wrestling, taking your calls and emails. You can listen live
most weeks the beginning at eight pm Eastern on Sunday nights with a WWE or
Impact pay per view, we go on the air. At the conclusion of
that pay per view, you can listen live, but of course, the
full show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs. Visit
pwtorch dailycast dot com and click the live stream link to find the next scheduled
live show link. Search Pwtorch and Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to subscribe
Wrestling Night in America every Sunday, pwtrch Dailycast dot com. All right,
Brian, well back back to you. Well, Anny, I don't even
know if we addressed fully your topic yet, so let's know if you're happy
or you gotta follow up. Did we lose fridverment shut them down? Yeah?
Well, Brian, it was good to hear from you. I don't
like the circumstances of our first time talking on the phone. You know,
it sucks that we're told not to go to work today, but appreciate your
support over the years and it's great tiar from you. All right, let's
go to our next VIP call here. I'm it's good to put your the
key in the subject lines so we can find find you right away. I
can't see anybody else jumping out. I gotta look again. Let's just go
to the person who's been on hold the longest area code two or three,
two or three. Thanks for holding. Please state your name and where you're
from. Two oh three? Hold on, block talk's churning, hold on,
n blame the switch blue right now, I'm gonna blame Bruce. He
did something wrong. Better. Yeah, it's still spinning, still spinning,
still spinning. Oh now he's on all right, two l three, Sorry
about that. Please state your name and where you're from two or three.
After all that, you gotta be there. Ah lost him? All right,
I got other callers on hold, so I will put you on hold,
and in fact, i'll hang up on you so if you call back,
i'll know that you're actually wanting to be on the show. Let's go
next to uh Eric code eight six five eight six fively states name and where
you're from eight six five. Oh, don't make me blame blog talk now
all right, I'm going to uh, let me look up in an email
question here in case there is an issue going on with UH with blog talk.
Efron emailed and uh Efron emailed and uh, he wanted to know if
we were okay with the heels wearing the breast cancer t shirts last night on
the show, and if you would have had any different thought, any differently
about it if it was a child abuse prevention month. Yeah, it was
a kind of a bit of an issue last year when they did it,
because I think only the baby faces did it. They mean, you know,
for for that month, Damian sand Out changed it. He didn't wears
like his pink kneepad and Dolph Ziegler, you know, bore more the past
out blues and you know he stayed away from the pink for for for October
and then literally November first they were back in their pink stuff and their pink
rope was gone and that was over This year, different approach. I don't
have a problem with it. It's why would I have a problem or even
think twice I could just be like, oh, they were told here's this
year you're going to wear on the air, and they put their head down
and was like Okay, thank you, missus mcmaheron, And yeah, you
know that's that's my problem with the travises. I think if a feel walks
out like like, uh, the real Americans and they're wearing a breath cancer
wearing a T shirt, I look at them as corporate cogs doing some corporate
you know, the corporate gagov And I mean, it's it's nice. Obviously
it's better corporations charity work than if they don't. But obviously corporations do charity
work and flaunt it because they want to feel good about themselves and justify other
things. It's just it's just what corporations do. It's better that they do
it then they don't. But let's not pretend it's out of the goodness of
their heart. The goodness of their heart is quietly giving a ton of money
to charity and not drawing attention to them, patting themselves on the back.
And as we know how and WW is just they're they're like every other corporation.
There's good and bad with it. But when wrestlers outlaw wrestlers heels are
out there wearing the T shirt that management tells them to wear, it's it's
similar but different than you know, the Wyat's having official T shirts for sale.
It's just it takes away part of the different than those guys wearing because
they work for the company. Companies sell whatever they want, put their faces
on whatever they want, button smugs. They don't have to come out sipping
out of a you know, Wyatt's family, you know service yea or what
have you. Yeah, Yeah, I just I'm glad, I mean put
this. I'm glad Randy Orton didn't wear a pink T shirt. I think
that would have just I mean, I think that the fact that he didn't
tells us that ww at least was aware or Randy Orton was self aware that
that's would be I'm not saying a gimmick killer, but it really it's just.
But in a way, you can also make the case Randy Jordon of
all people should be Yeah, I'm I'm it's that's a promo whole narrative of
Triple Hi and Stephanie. These jerks running this company that we're supposed to financially
spor feel good about even though all the profit goes into their pockets and they're
you know, just awful people. And now, but We're supposed to think,
well, ww is a good company because Stephanie and Triplat are initiating this
breast cancer awareness campaign. So it's like, what should Randy Orton do?
I don't know. It's it's why having the faces of your company be awful
people is a problem. It leads to and doubly awful when you go into
ue and talk about faces of companies. Yes, yes, absolutely, it's
Triple A and Stephanie. All they think about in their lives is the corporation
of WWE, how they're perceived on Wall Street, how they're perceived in the
corporate community. There there. I'm trying to think of the analogy, but
they're they were part of this, this shunned industry, and no matter how
successful they were, people just snidely looked at, oh, you're a pro
wrestler, you're in the pros industry. Instead of embracing that, it's want
to know, I want to be that so bad. I want to be
something that I'm obviously not. They let me know every time, these corporate
snooty old money people, you know, they let you kidding, They let
those they let them make mands, and that's why they feel the way they
do. They let they feel that when they're around all that old money,
that legacy money that never go and broke money. You know, they feel
that and they just want to be that so bad. I mean that works
on I mean, it's just societally, it's when you see it over and
over with everyone. I mean just yeah, well then and that is a
thing. I mean, And and so they they are they come across as
new money in the sense that they were so excited to be taken seriously as
a corporation now and we and we just you know, and then also just
the people they hire are from outside the wrestling of the stry now and they
come in they go, this is how things are done, you know.
You know, the more you know, NBC and NFL cares, you know
whatever. I mean, it's just all that. It's just they're doing what
corporations do. But he just comes across as big marks for being accepted in
the corporate community after being shunned and part of this underground, you know thing
for so long. And it's it's just from a distance that you kind of
look at and go, well, if that makes you feel good about yourself,
fine, but it hurts the product. But even worse is when the
storyline on a storyline on air just is so contradictory within the same show.
You know, Triblachian stuff for awful people, but we want you to be
aware of breath cancer and the real Americans you should boo them. But they
care enough to wear a T shirts or they're forced too, so they're not
really independent minded people. They're just corporate cogs. It just plays into the
whole thing of do not cross the line or you're fired, and everyone hanging
their head and big show crying because he has no job options other than you
know, being a dorman. So it's just it's all right, let's let's
let's give a shot to seven or two. It's a VIP Express caller.
Uh seven o two, Please state your name and where you're from seven o
two. That seems like we might have a problem with the phone lines with
log talk. My apology to everybody. This happened a week ago Friday,
where let me ask a chet Hopefully they can't. Let's see, I'm gonna
ask a chat room. Can you hear the callers? Well, because when
I went a week ago, you mean, if they hear the caller saying
hello, hello, Hello, yeah, and like we can't because that actually
happened with Jerry Jarrett on the Jerry Jarrett Interview a week and a half ago
on Friday, blog talk had a technical problem. It turned into a big
deal, and I was the first one to bring them more. But they
could hear the callers couldn't death hosts. But chat room says no, sorry,
uh seven or two. I don't know what's going on, but we
may have to just shift email questions. I'm gonna try a couple more callers,
just to be double shure. Seven seven Oh, I'm gonna bring you
on here. Seven seven oh are you there? Seven seven? Have you
tried unplugging it and plugging it back in? Very good? No? No,
if you refreshed, I mean not that you'd haven't tried, but if
you've refreshed to switch the whole page. Yeah, I'm hearing that. Now
give it a shot. Anybody who's on hold, feel free obviously to email
a question to us seven seven h h after hitting refresh, can you hear
us? All right? Well, I think we're officially in a in a
technical problem zone. Let's go eight six two final chants to see if phone
line's work eight six two. Are you there all right? Yeah, things
are not working on the phone banks, So apologize for that. Nail.
Kylan's day is completely ruined. Well, Kylan can email us a question right
now? So uh yeah, yeah, Stephen said it. I called and
the show today and it said I was unmuted, but you couldn't hear me.
Same with a call before you got to me. We could hear you,
but you couldn't hear us. So blog talk got some issues again,
so we apologize for that. Let's go to an email. This comes from
Danny from San Jose, California. I've noticed whenever someone grows popularity to be
even close to John Cena, wwe will try to do a storyline that has
their momentum and drastically. Why do you think they do that? Do they
not want anyone to Surpassina? Ever? What's the deal in the case of
Brian Danielson. I eat Daniel Brian he was the man in the Indies.
People paid to see him Russell, he was the main event. He could
have easily Surpassena with the right booking. He already has wrestling ability. He's
better at promos that aren't scripted. They make him look stupid when his speeches
are scripted. He's been the closest to Surpassena and they pretty much made him
look bad last night. Why does WWB sabotage their talent? Travis, you
don't agree with everything he said, but maybe you do. But on a
big nure we was just a line where he said, did he say Daniel
Brien could have easily surpassed I don't like John Cena, but like, come
on, he has an intangible and not that Brian doesn't have it, but
there's a reason why I Seen has been on top for seven eight years,
right, you know, the idea that someone could just easily surpassed John Seen
is like just this like of course, like let's like easy there, Like
we all love Brian and he's great, you know, and you would think
with some competent, you know, real writing and you know, people that
can write for the guy. But we don't have that. So it's like
hold it with the easily surpassed stuff. Yeah, but for him, but
I get the tone of his uh of his email? Yeah, So so
is there is there a pattern there? Did we see it with Rye back?
Have we seen it with punk? Have we seen it with Daniel Bryant?
Have you seen with anybody else where? There does seem to be almost
a calculated, deliberate attempt if someone gets too hot, to make sure they
know seen as the guy. Sure, I think so just in general,
like innately, that's just that's our guy. We're gonna we're gonna push him
as our guy. We have no no plans on I mean, they can
back to like just wrestling being that special kind of entity that does things in
a different way. It's the only what other industry like stomps out their young
talents flame where they can, you know, because he might threaten the old
guard. I mean that's a theme in life. But you at least let
him like make money for you. Yeah, you know, they don't even
let these guys get to the point where they could be draws, and it's
like all right if they're legitimately. I don't know, maybe I'm just two
eyes wide open ideological thinking when it comes to like how to you can run
a wrestling company sitting here on my couch, never you know, have run
anything, let alone a multinational conglomerate. But it's just like simple storytelling and
creativity. You don't need I don't know. I think I've veered all off.
That's all right, it happens. Let's uh, let's go the next
question. John from Greensboro, I wonder what you thought of Gold's being in
the ring last night in a suit and face painted. I did not have
the same problem you did with running last week in gold Us being in makeup,
although I understood your point. That's so nice to someone disagree but understand
your point, because that's that's nice. That happens to me a lot.
I disagree with people, but I get their points. In my opinion,
he is goldest and not Dustin Rhodes. They referred to him as Dustin less
often than they were for Dusty Rhodes Versua Runolds. Dustin Rhodes would have looked
awkward and face paint well, stand well in the stands waiting to attack the
shield, But since gold dust is not usually seen without its face paint,
it made sense to me. Thanks for the great show every Tuesday. Jarvis
Bruce is kind of, you know, just kind of brushed off the notion.
No, he was fine in face paint, and that's fine. I
mean, it's not like I'm not gonna you know, rant about it for
two straight weeks or anything. But to me, I think when it became
an issue of jobs in wrestling, and when the dad was humiliated, and
when they're acknowledging that gold dust is dustin Runolds Dustin Rhodes the son of Cody,
and they're talking about Cody's real life marriage. Just to me, when
you get into that realm and you want to do you want to sneak into
the building, and even though you're not you're fired, and you're not officially
supposed to be there, covertly run in and attack somebody. It's not like
it's not like, you know, ree mysterio. I'm expecting it to come
in without his mask. I just think gold dust is dust. He's wrestled
as dust and they talk about his dust and they say he's Cody's brother.
I just thought it was a little kind of corny and cheesy, and it
did take me out of the moment a little bit. To me, it
would have said a lot more if dustin, if gold dust was dustin,
and he's like, this is this is about families, this isn't about the
gimmick. I had initially the same kind of issue, like all right that
I'm I'm supposed to believe this. You know, six four, two hundred
and fifty pound guy was like, you know, at this wrestling event,
didn't get mobbed. But you know, even though he's in the hoodie,
I mean, how weird and suspicious is this guy? But because because we
had an email or a caller last night with Bruce, he said, I
think I thought that thing happened way too quick. It was just over and
and it kind of made me realize why gold dust Dustin had to have the
makeup on, because in order to make that segment work, it had to
happen quick. You don't want bumbling security that they're doing with their job.
They shouldn't be able to pound on and pound on and pound on wrestlers,
guys that are supposed to be protected from fans. That that's dangerous in a
lot of ways. So of course security should be. You need those guys,
you need them to be the most recognizable, and Cody isn't exactly you
know mister. You know, I know he's got a great smile and he's
handsome in everything, but in a two second, you know, two to
eight second kind of quick thing, you want fans and instantly dust and sold
that obviously it's Cody or Dust. The gold does so that's obviously Cody.
Lets all cheer and react. You don't want people thinking about it and the
murmur because it because that murmur in the time it takes for them to murmur
and wonder, the angles over and the securities dragged them off and you're like,
wait, were they fans? Was that in it? You know?
I't sure you'd get a replay and you'd figure it out, but you don't
want that. You wanted foone boom in the moment people reacting. So I
was like, you know what, he probably really had to have that pain
on in order for that to work. And so I kind I forgave it,
like I forgate it, and you know, but I didn't really feel
like so hard about it anymore. Yeah. Yeah. One way that you
can help us sustain our schedule of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by
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helps us grow. And if you want, you can add a few comments
about what you like about the programs in the comments section. Thank you so
much. And yeah, I mean it's not a huge deal, but I'm
just personally to me, sure took me out of the moment a little.
And and like, I have less of an issue with him coming out in
the suit, wearing the makeup last night because he you know, he wasn't
trying to be covert. He had time to prepare it is. It's just
kind of his stick. It's what he does. And yeah, the idea
that he spent a half hour hour long it takes some probably longer in the
mirror putting it on to do a secret sneak attack was a little bit absurd.
But don't if you don't think about it, right, did it wasn't,
So just don't think about it. Yes, all right, let's wrap
up the free part of the show here. We'll go into the VIP after
show and talk about more things from raw last night and more email questions.
If we did not get to your call, please email us your topics,
especially if you're a VIP member obviously, and we'll promise to get to it
during the aftershow. I promise if it's a good question and we want to
answer it. So that's put like bad call or no call or drop call
or whatever, something like yeah, absolutely, well yeah, anything that comes
in the next few minutes, I'll know it's from you, guys, So
so send it in PW Torch livecast at gmail dot com. We'll tackle it
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Wade Keller t A g W A D E K E L L E R.
And you can follow the brand Pwtorch at PW Torch and you can follow
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so yeah, listen to us tomorrow right after Pat McNeil. Do you know
who he has on pads on? Wait? I remember he texts or he
I AM's me. It's like loady and somebody. Yep, he's got a
All Star Panel on tomorrow. I think he's changing the name since we took
his name, but I'm looking up sext on. Yeah, Adam Colan,
Michael Elgan from Ring of Honor are his guest stol Nope, not All Star
panel, but so check that out. Pat McNeil every Wednesday's interviews this Friday.
I've got Matt Morgan last Friday. You gotta listen to it if you
haven't yet. Alex Greenfield ex Creative Team member two thousand five through seven,
I think or fourth through six, really good guests, Lots of good feedback
on Twitter and an email from that interview. VFP member's got some really good
stuff in the BP after show from Alex also, so the FP members definitely
checked out that out if you haven't yet. And h Yeah, good show,
Thanks Travis, Thanks to all the callers. My apologies again for the
technical issues of not getting to the other callers, but we'll end the show
there. Kids on Vigils of Play us out and on the other side of
the music VP members, stay tuned. We've got more to talk about,
a lot more going on on Role last night, and we'll look ahead to
that a Bruno all right, right, now to the the a the after
show portion of the show, Travis, just on a lighter note, we
talked a little bit about loss Mattador's a little bit passively, but what did
you think of their introduction and also l L Tis. I think if they
tighten up that intro, it could be really you know, like one of
those fun things is the crowd gets into but the priests. The build up
to the dude running through the capes are our old lad capes. It was
a little a little much, but that's the first one and that's probably that's
fine, But just tighten up that intro, it could be a fun little
thing. I don't think they have anything necessarily like Brod his clay. He's
a you know, big fat guy would have you know, mohawk and you
know, dances around and you know, he's kind of special. These guys,
I don't know if they they're not. It's not like it's Paul London
and Brian Kendrick h three under those masks and they're gonna like do fly around
and really energize. It's premo and ethical. They had premo and ethical matches,
or they're gonna have premo and ethical matches yeah, yeah, well I
am high on this, not as a main event act, but I think
El to Rito is a good thing for what w w E is and and
the house show experience, and it's it's what WW is. Some people long
for the nineteen seventies and eighties territory house and and I understand stand that,
and especially if you've experienced it. I talked about that yesterday. And the
Keller Hotline is kind of as a sidebar. I mean, they're just I
feel, you know, feel a little bad for people who never get to
actually be present in an old smoke filled building with the old old ladies on
the front shake, you know, shaking their their canes at the wrestlers and
everyone believing it's real, and the you know, and the gritty atmosphere.
It's it's it's great, but wrestling is different and there's definitely things about it
now that are way better. I mean, there were some awful, awful
undercards that I saw with a wa just longside headlocks and born. I mean,
it's just so what it is today and what w w E stay.
It's not for everyone, but for what WWE wants to do. I think
El Torito has a chance to be a big hit. I think he's something
he's you know, like it's it's it's almost blasphemous to say it, but
he could be in a way the new Ray Mysterio in the sense of something
that that younger kids see and they're attracted to right away and go, oh,
this is funny, this is fun this is interesting. But as kind
of a side character to a mid card tag team, it doesn't get in
the way of anything else. And so I think they're onto something with this.
And I thought they did a good job. I mean, it's very
much in the tradition of the Minis in Mexico and and uh, and there's
a there is a culture to draw from that can go well beyond just people
who have you know, slowly with luch Lieber, wha, wait, is
Hornswoggle looking over his shoulder now, yes, you know, so I think
he is. Somebody asked recently if they're going to bring in somebody, you
know, to work with Hornswoggle or you know, play off of him or
whatever. And I don't know if El Torito and Hornswoggle will cross past,
maybe we'll have a Hornswoggle He'll turn at rest before Restimania thirty and we'll have
a El Torito versus Hornswoggle match the Evil Left team. Why why did you
play that? Well? Because you know I can. You can take a
bathroom break, go to the kitchen when that happens. But you know you
don't have to watch it. But I said it first. Actually I'm sure
I didn't. I bet somebody else out there if you did a search Hornswoggle,
El Torido resty a thirty, I bet there's a message board post of
somebody thinking that was a genius idea. Yeah, yeah, all right,
let me jump to another email question here, Sony email dot question for the
live cast, and he has it's like four paragraphs and he says, please
read this out loud. It took an hour to write on the iPad.
Yes, I'm gonna just just gonna grab one aspect of this because the other
one's teena related. So I'll say that for the Keller hot Line. VFP
member Martin from Norwich in the UK says, I have an opinion I want
to get your view on despite being a proven drawn capable of four star matches,
do you think recent ross have actually benefited from being John Cena free And
my opinion as bad as Triple Agent Stepson can be, and as all over
the place as booking wise as this Brian versus Management storyline is. Imagine how
much worse it would be seen a switching between smiling John's stand up comedy road
show mode and no selling the gravity of situations left right and center and shouty
Seena make serious where he bangs on and bangs on and on to an unseen
entity called Jack about how he's the first in the building the afternoons in the
last to leave in the evening, whether it's relevant to the draw at hand
or not? Do you agree? Try it's a good one to you.
Uh. And I was gonna get on him about bangs along the UK guy,
this unknown entity called Jack. Oh, what a good line. I
think they wouldn't have been able to do the storyline we've seen around. I
agree, different changes everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
totally. He's set up to be the guy to come back and a
lot of them. I'm not taking it no more. Jack, John seen
it's back, you know whatever. Yeah, And then I guess we're supposed
to be like, you know, yeah, he's seen it, and the
almost almost will be just a genuine like, oh well, okay, like
at least someone can legitimately and they're going to like treat them, you know,
with some halfway decent uh, you know, more than halfway decent respect
level. And you know he's gonna he's gonna get That's he's the comeback.
That's really what it is. John's even it will be the comeback. Do
you think ratings would be higher with John seen or is it totally dependent upon
what they did with him or John A given ratings would be back. I
think yeah, I think there would be a nud jump, there would be
a little bit more. Yeah, yeah, I think he deserves that much.
Yeah. Yeah. Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
some wrestling history, don't miss the Nineties Pass cast every Friday on the PW
Torch Daily Cast feed. Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the
past by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow news
from the WWF and WCW, and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry
in real time as The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties
Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. I mean,
this is okay, here's a better question, or I'll say it's a better
question because I said the first question. I think this is a better question.
Is Daniel bron If Daniel Bryan had been pushed coming out of the Summer
Slam win, without Triple H involved, without you know, the ridiculous power
Trip storyline, without the Big show crap and all that. If Daniel Bran
just got to be the new hot star and they used him as if their
business dependent on maximizing him, and they had no this a lot of this,
but they had no crutches, They had no objections to his size and
how embarrassing it would be to bring him to a corporate meeting and say this
is our top star and all that stuff. If they just went with Daniel
Bryan like an old time promoter would when a wrestler gets hot, would that
be better than John Cena being used Ideally at this point, yeah, because
it'd be He'd be fresher and the fans stood. They fans chose him.
They didn't know Seene it was going to necessarily you know, be yep,
you know, so the fans still chose him. So so so. Yeah,
but one thing about you know he brought up you know, not objecting
to a size and everything they do. Know, yes, they can say
they can have you know, they're on their continue to turn their nose up
at five eight two hundred pounds, but he's still like in the main event,
like they can like kind of do it with their nose turn but he's
still there. People still see them see him. It's not like somehow saying
that the people's eyes and things are are are clouded or glazed over. I
don't know if I'm making the point, but they they're still You're still featuring
this guy, like you say all this bad stuff about the wall, take
them off the TV. I know you feel this way, and you've really
you know, maybe not trust so hard and evil about it, but yeah,
sure this is a genuine, genuine feelings you and the management have,
uh, take the guy off TV like you're you're the idiots for featuring the
guy. It's like the guy who complains and still pays the money to do
something. I think, all right, well here the dumb asses that are
losing money by featuring them. If you if you think he's so bad and
people don't take them seriously. Yeah, yeah, but I guess that would
be their answer. Well, we're trying, don't you see? He was
trying to underhand them, and so I guess it actually works everyone. Yeah,
all right, Well let's do another email here, VIP member Brandon for
Michigan with the rumor of Vince versus h If you going to WrestleMania thirty,
who do you think will be or should be Vincu surget the face Hunter at
Mania? And how should the story end considering Hunter as has to at some
point take over for good for real. Man. That's that's where John Singer
comes in. So what's your WrestleMania prediction. I've I'm going back and forth.
I've said both matches are going to happen, which they can't. That
could be where you finally get your I don't think it's going to happen.
I think the likelihood is going to be seen at versus Triviola as Vince's reluctant,
you know, well I gotta fight, you know, I gotta accept
this. I guess him and Vince haven't really had any on air issues until
all of a sudden he turned on him and hated him. A couple of
months ago. But who cares. We forgot about that. Vince will be
pick Sena and that'll be it'll be Triple H Sena or again if you know,
if if they have some sense and go, wait, Vince just said,
I don't. I'm sick of you. You act like you run in
the place. I'm sick of you, be in the face. We want
someone else. If they stick with that, which would make sense, then
you could still get your Brian Triple H match at WrestleMania. But I still
lean towards Triple hsina because it's Triple A Sena, not Brian Triple Ate.
But at some point we get Daniel Bryan against Triple H two. I think
you would have to. Yeah, but didn't where what show Royal rumble.
That's gonna be interesting all so yeah, I didn't. It's gonna how that
how that match happens, and the subtext and how Triple H. You know,
does Triple H go out there and pull a Shawn Michael's Whole Hogan where
Triple Hi says, all right, all you people who say that I'm you
know, egotistical, you know, because there's not evidence of that, you
know, like that's up for debate, and you know that I don't know
what's really best interest in mind for Daniel Brown. And he goes out there
and he pulls the Michaels and just sells you know, not not obviously in
a cartoonis Shawn Michael's way because he's not physically capable of it. But you
know, just goes overboard and taking a beating from Daniel Brien to just you
know, spite the fans. But he can't do that. If if that
comes before the John Cena matchup Mania thirty, if that's direction they go,
so, you know, then Triple Hi gets go, well, I would,
you know, put Danny Bran over. But I'm in the main of
m Mania thirty, so I got it. Stay strong, Yeah, I
gotta stay strong. Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting, all right,
Yeah, But the Vincina dynamic, I mean, I don't I don't
know if that helps or hurts seen or makes a difference at all if he
shows up. I mean, obviously this is a big enough storyline. I
mean, it's not just a rumor. It's just the obvious logical direction this
is going. You know, they're not gonna But again, how do you
get around and do they do just classic WWE? So what or say,
head, Vince go, I was going through some some things. But how
do you get around the fact that this whole thing started Because Vince didn't all
of a sudden hates seeing you, hate all the money, seeing it made
him gonna lay at a tacade. I don't know. Yeah, all right.
He had a a second second part of his question, but that email
is down, so I need to walk over here and get it where it's
up, all right. His second question is what is the direction of the
wyatts? They seem installed already. I guess we covered that earlier. Sure,
I mean, what what what would you have done differently with the Wyatts
to this point? Or are you okay with the way they're pacing there?
There? Integrating? So I'm okay with it because I don't see much pass.
I mean, the two big guys aren't going to go after the tag
titles until the shield drivel, so they're even thinking about that. That's so
they're kind of in a holding pattern. That's why I said they just beat
up three MB and you know, justin Gabriel every week, I guess and
and Bray isn't going to go after either of these singles titles because again there
held by heels the two ic in us. So I think by default they're
just in a holding pattern. Put a good holding pattern where you get featured
on TV and you still get to do your cool intro. That's over.
You don't want vinsc. Manning gets super excited about somebody and he gets it
when when vinc managroduces people, he gets him over. And then if he's
not ready to push him to the top, people get really reckless. And
I understand that, but that led to Dulphigger being turned prematurely. You know,
dulalp Sigger should have been a mid card heel waiting turn baby face when
they were ready to really launch him in the main events. And with the
Wyatt's, I mean, I'm they're just hardcore fense. I don't understand the
word. The people who watch every week and are just you know, all
into it. They're at one end of the spectrum. But Vince books to
the median, the median fan, the one who needs that reinforcement, who
needs to see them for a long time before they buy them as stars.
That's his approach. Now, if there's time. There's absolutely times to make
exceptions, especially when there's just something obvious to make money on waiting for you.
But from what I have seen, I don't see him souring on the
YS. I see him waiting for the right time to rev them up.
But right now he's got his top two or three storylines with Punk Cayman.
And I'd rather be stalled in the Wyatt family than stalled and be Curtis Axel
then installed in what be Curtis Axel. Oh curt oh, yeah, yeah,
yeah. Curtis Axel is probably better being the guy reacting to the Hayman
being weird with Raybeck and Raybeck being the new Elpha in that relationship. I
mean, there's actually somebody for Curtis Axel to playoff. And now I think
I'm not saying he's been great, but I think he's been better, more
interesting than reacting to Hayman and right back than he has been just as himself.
By the way, did you think Stephanie and Hunter were better last night
than they have been? Better? In what says? Well, better in
the sense that, like Stephanie wasn't either crying or yelling at the top of
her lungs. I actually thought as a power couple being jerks, they actually
were played off each other. They played off each other well. I if
this is what they had been like from the beginning. I'm not saying I'd
like the booking, but I went to ben as hard because Triple H wasn't
trying to be the snarky stand up comedian. Stephanie wasn't trying to show her
her acting chops and just kind of embarrassing herself and making you want to turn
the channel. I thought they pulled back to the right tone and played off
each other as equals, and they didn't overdo it, and they didn't tear
tear people that I don't know. I just I thought last night was there's
no rant there. It was like, Okay, Stephanie was actually good in
a role. Triple ch was good in a role, and we quick try
when when I mentioned this, when especially like when Triple chose, we've given
you what three four chances is at four steps should leave oh at least like
I laughed. I thought her delivery was great. The dynamic between them was
good. If if it's just if they find their stride and can do can
do this? I I mean again, it doesn't mean the storyline makes sense,
but on a on a performance character level, I would be okay with
that. Yeah. No, once she stopped being the caught in the middle
wife and daughter, it's over my daddy. Yeah she got really good,
Like, oh, she can just be if she can just just be a
mean, nasty bitch without going with the octaves like when she got all you
think you are, like pull back a little bit too stuff like but if
she if she's not crying being the Tweeners stuff between the rock and har place
and not being the yelling, screeching stephinitely got you know, with her new
booze and oh to the Alliance stuff. You know, she just literally she
couldn't cut a promo without screeching. She keeps that calm down. She's good,
She's been fine, Like really, like I hate her in a way
that I'm supposed to hate. Well, I can't stand her, but I
don't, you know, it's a good hatred. Yeah, it doesn't make
you like dread watching Raw. Like people don't dread watching Raw because of Paul
Hayman. They want to watch Paul Hayman get what he's got coming. And
you know, as Stephanie. You want her in a position you do.
Biggie Langston's return last night. You know, people have been wondering how they're
gonna use him, Will he be Paul Hayman's a new guy to take on
Punk. All these speculation and he comes back to do a quick TV job.
I mean you can almost tell body language wise when he came out,
he was kind of stumbling over his words a little bit. They're just there's
kind of that that powdy body language that doesn't do you any favors that guys
have when they're about to do the job. I call it the van Hammer
look and the nature. I never called it before this, but I'm calling
it the Van Hammer look on Nitro And when he was brought back and he
would just walk out and he you know, just he had that look on
his face of Oh, I'm just here to do a job, and I'm
I should be getting a big push. Why am I not the next Ulton
Orio. It's a bit of a boo boo face he's I mean, he's
what twenty in it's mid twenties. Yeah, you look like you do.
Come on, pal, You're going to get your chances and you're actually pretty
good and you're going to be a decent baby face one day. So you
know, yeah, I know you think you should be you know, not
job in the seeing punk. But this works with the story and it's like
one of those things like, oh this actually booking kind of makes sense with
the whole body st sized thing and the announcers. That wasn't wasted on the
announcers, and so what you go out there and you lose to the number
one or two baby facing you know on the roster, shut up? Yeah,
yep. I just think when you're off TV for a while, you
kind of hope there's some build up anticipations when you do return it it means
something. And I could see him being dis point in that. But he
you know, yeah, he's got along because look how he was bought up.
I mean, let's start, you know, like they set the tone
with It's not like that you got bought up with this splash, You just
kind of got brought ups. Is heavy in the background for two people,
and you ran interference and you know again you were heavy. Now you're losing
to the number two one or two baby race. All right, so let's
let's wrap up with and I'll check email one more time here too, But
let's rop up with battleground on Sunday, Rob Vandam and albertoo Rio. I
sat on the Color hot Line that I think the top ten moves of Rob
van Dam and making it a hardcore match, even though whenever they make it
a hardcore match, it's a way of saying, it's a short cut because
the guy doesn't want you know, guys can't work, don't want to work
the match. They're just going to do a stand up rawl and a couple
of big spots to make up for it. But I think WWB holds back
from doing it just indiscriminately on TV now where when they do announce it there's
some equity, and I think with Rob van Dam there's more than usual.
And I thought the top ten move video, even though people are raising their
expectations probably higher than what ww WE can deliver on, I think that's going
to sell some pay per views. I think some people are gonna go WHOA,
you know, especially fans who either haven't seen that a long time or
never saw it or only saw it on YouTube, Like I get to see
this in a contemporary WWE, and I could see Rob Bandam do these moves
to del Rio? Yeah, I think that adds a layer that to what
to what Battle Run would have been otherwise. So I don't know if I
thought that they actually added added a little to the pay per view with what
they think a little bit. I think they had they had to do something,
you know, what that match get somebody guided about it. So if
there's a you know, handful or whether that handfuls you know, thousand or
ten thousand people that don't go, oh yeah, I mean, you know
by this show now or something, you know, I'm more or at least
I'm really really going to consider it because at least this is another you know,
spice in the soup. But I just I think as far as the
match goes, it'll be a bunch of crunches and you know, you'll get
that you know, take tempered you know, twenty thirteen hardcore style, which
to fine, I'm not complaining. U you know, maybe a van Terminator,
but something's gonna happen and Van Dam's gonna end up getting getting injured because
he's you know, he'll be going for three months. He's not gonna flip
dive into the crowd. No, and you said something about if you've reached
into the crowd, it's like a fine or something. Yeah. Yeah,
it's like yeah, they actually I think it was actually done that weekly.
They were talking about it. Oh last week, Chris and Jason state commissions.
No, no, no, w w E. Like they have like
apparently a rule that you get fine seventy or seventy five thousand bucks. They
tell wrestlers if you reach over the ring barry there's too many lawsuits, put
too much potential for lawsuit if you do that. So unless it's a prescribed
gimmick, like you know the sunglasses, Yeah, to say, what about
the shield? And I think that's the unpump is in the over to barcade.
Yeah right, but you as a wrestlad doing your own, you can't
do it on your own exactly. It's it's very and I obviously you know,
see him punk, I don't think just when of the crowd on his
own, But that was very unfortunate, you know when he hit the wrong
guy. That's a humbling moment and hit a guy period. Absolutely, But
it's as bad as that is, it's exponentially worse when you hit the wrong
guy. Yeah, No, totally and hopefully kind of humbling, you know,
to to Punk a little bit. I mean, Punk is still worshiped
that I'm you know, sometimes find myself trying to balance it out a little
bit. But you know that that was a temperamental moment and indicative of maybe
needs time off. It's the defenders that came out for that, I know.
I know. You don't have to wait for the weight Keller Pro Wrestling
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week you can check out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown
at pwtorch dot com. My written report we'll tell you what's happening in detail
in case you missed the show, and it will also analyze key segments and
give my random thoughts end quips on what I'm watching as it airs. So
check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That
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find other TV reports from other contributors to pwtorchs such as n x t Rowah,
Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out pwtorch dot com, your first
stop for TV and pay per view written reports. So anyway, yeah,
but is there any downside? Now? It's only is there any downside to
Rob and dam showing all those spots when you can't even come close to delivering
some of those on Sunday? Yeah, so either yeah, whatever you do
with the downside after you got their money. Also, so yeah, although
you know, I mean the net's come bag pro motor kind of way.
It's like, well whatever, I'm what we're gonna worry that he can't get
you know that he's mister would you call him mister three stars? You know,
and it's not you know, there'll be a lot of slinging of Cando
sticks and maybe get some smushy trash cans in there. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh so prediction for right back end Punk, How does that match go?
I wouldn't be surprised if through lots of Shenanigans, right back wins. Yeah,
yeah, to set up a hell and a cell, to just set
up just Perry and I mean he goes in and lose that match. Yeah,
Yeah, I don't think you can have robeck loose to punk and have
people take right back seriously as a threat. And then you need Hayman to
gloat, you know, have something to gloat about, and punks, well,
he'd be rounding off his his year as a paper as on a pay
per view. Wasn't his first pay per view last October? And until like
May he was a over pay per view. Yeah that's right, yep,
yeah, you know, so I you know, if he go, you
know, he'll be if he wins, I think he'll only be three in
uh three in uh nine or something like that. So if he loses,
he'll be two and ten. That's just swoof. Not that they keep right,
you know that they even would even dare put that over or even out
there. But I have a memory. I remember things, so uh and
finally the main event, Uh what what sneigans lead to uh Danny Bryan not
being champion or did he come out with the belt? No? I think
this is one more one more thing set up the uh and I think it's
gonna I I think I said it's gonna be a big, big time schmas
to send it to in the show's just going to be one of those locker
room uh, pouring. You know, it's just I predict the show going
off with just may him and uh, you know, you know everybody's out
there. This will be a test of if people care. Everybody's out there,
and you know, the locker room's not taking anymore to shale the locker
room. This guy and that guy and I don't know, maybe even have
Stephanie and Triple H kind off to the side like, oh Jesus is not
good. How we're gonna and then well, here coming, you know,
and I go, okay, well here, it'll be a perfect opportunity.
I see if people would would you know, well, if people care for
a big show, I don't think they do. I think they'll go,
is he gonna come out and go please guys stop fighting? The locker room
coming together everybody, you know. But I think it just ends in the
Schmas and the big, big old brew. H. Here here's my bold
prediction, and it sets up logically, sets up the cell. That's what
I said yesterday. This is my bold prediction. And if you ask me
in two days, my prediction will be different because I don't I'm not saying
put money on this because there's one hundred hundred options that are all, you
know, relatively equally viable with all the moving parts. I think Daniel Brian
wins a world title and keeps it in part because I think it's best for
business based on what I'm going to predict after that, and too because it'll
be Triple Agio's way of quieting critics a little bit. I mean, I
think he's gonna I actually think he's would care enough to do that, and
so I see all these people are all worried, and we gave him,
actually let him hold the title for more than a day or more than five
minutes. So Brian wins, and I think he wins clean. I think
part of that relatively clean for pretty much clean. And I think part of
that is, you know, based on what we saw on Monday, I
think they're I can owing. Maybe I'm getting more credit than I should,
but I think they wanted or to look really strong because they're gonna have a
lose on on Sunday. And then Helen a Cell or Daniel Brian with big
show was referee like a special winforce of referee and Helen a Cell that that's
that's my prediction, because what are they gonna do with Big Show otherwise,
and then the question is will Big Show knock out Daniel Brian to help Orton
get the belt, or well, Big Show call it down the middle,
or well he even Daniel Bryan. That's that's my prediction. That's that's that's
uh. I think you could do both. I think you get ended in
it. Well not, I think you could ended in the schmas. Have
Big Show be the last guy to kind of come down and you know what's
he gonna do, and then still still in abeyance and then okay, one
on one hill in the sale. You want to be you want to get
it, you want to you want to make an impact. Big Show,
Fine, we want to. Here's your final test, you know or whatever.
An in eery inside enforcer like you said. And I think giving Brian
the title and letting him relish in it for a month even I think even
Triplet and Stephanie would would think we need to give fans of a sense it's
only three weeks turnaround. Kind yeah, that's the thing we want. We
want. It's it's like I can think of a crude, cru cruder analogy,
but it's like it's like we want to give somebody access to their dream
cause here to cruder analogy. Yeah, well no, no, because it's
it's not even as good as this one. But it's I'm trying to get
a good analogy, not just the cruder only come on, but the someone
get instead of giving some letting someone test drive their dream card that they can't
afford, it's more cruel to give it to them for three weeks and then
take it away, you know, And that's kind of you can So that's
what I'm You can come up with any other analogies that might work, but
gives fans a taste of Daniel Brian a champion for three weeks and let them
enjoy it and get even given get used to it. It's like, and
I'm gonna enjoy what when it comes out there. I know I might be
lute, ugly faced, beardy, whatever troupe, but I'm a champion.
Mighty wants to hear that crap. I certainly don't. I want to hear.
I told you I'm the best. No one can beat me. If
you think you can beat me, come get your ligaments torn out of the
socket and all that's you know, that got Hi perfectly, But I so
if Brian gets three weeks a champion and the fans get you get actually used
to Dan and Brian being their champion. However they push them aside. There's
good and bad ways to do it. Then Triple HS basically saying, hey,
fans, yeah, Danna Brand left your champion, but don't get used
to it. Randy Orton has a has an automatic rematch and he's getting it
and we're gonna put it in LSL and we're gonna make sure that that Shenanigans
Scott Armstrong doesn't happen again. And we can't trust in a hell and to
sell a regular meatily referee to handle this kind of pressure. Big Show is
a special referee, so I'll make him the full on ref. He's got
to make the three count not even I think you make him the full on
ref because really, I mean, in hell in a cell, there's not
much to do but count three because there's no rules, So I think you
can do that, and well they'll do. They'll probably do what they did
with fully when he special ref tripulation Kevin Nash because the idea was of regular
ref can't officiate, so they had him take these bumps and yeah, get
like elboated by accident by I wanted to, you know, like our normal
ref would be damn for fifteen minutes, but fully say I'm okay, yeah,
I got it, you know. Yeah, So maybe big show will
be in a hot or two where he takes a inadvertent kick or something,
but he's tough and he can shake it off. I was like, I
always hate when I don't see the email question where someone gives a nice plug
to VIP and I don't read it on the Free show. But we'll end
with this email from Jason from Long Island and he actually sent the sin six
hours ago. He says, unlike the people speaking openly and honestly about Hunter
on as DVD, I will gladly say that as a five year plus Torch
VFP member, wait Over delivers on content each month. If you're on the
fence, get often and subscribe. Now you'll be glad you did so call
her. Did say that for Friday, David for next Tuesday. I guess
yeah. But his question is is there any way that trip Lah would have
ever allowed himself to be booked as poorly as the way Daniel Bryan and Delphigler
have been booked in recent months. Is there any way that this booking can
be looked at as it was nineteen ninety five or ninety six. He wouldn't
have a choice, but you know, triple late of the last ten years
or twelve years, Well, let me let me go, he puts,
Okay, Oh yeah, good. Maybe is there anyway because he's, you
know, the FFP member, he's got to be here. Is there any
way that this booking can be looked at as anything other than an outright burial
of both of these men? Possibly since the fans, not the w WB
machine selected both of them. In the past, fans selected Daniel Peuter and
Loki as winners are tough enough, both men were promptly buried as the company's
parent disdain for fans ever catch up with them. Well, I will first
say that Daniel Peuter and low Key are not Daniel Bryan and dal Siegler.
There's there are some very very legitimate reasons that they didn't want to get deal
with low Key being over and having to deal with his weird way of thinking,
you know, how business has done, and Daniel Peuter just wasn't ready
And there's a lot of political reasons but they could have made money with both
of them. But I trust, but Dalpziggler and Daniel Brown are much much,
much more qualified in every way on and off camera, over with fans,
competence in the ring behind them, like everything. But I get his
point too, But these it actually makes the Daniel Bryan and Dalp Siggler situation
more egregious because Travis, these guys, we're picked by the fans, and
they really are ready and responsible enough and good enough employees where they could have
made money in the long run with him. No, it's it's uh,
yeah, if I had mine, if I had to pick two guys,
it wouldn't be or I'd pick Brian and Zigler and a Pewter and the other
one and low key. But no, I get his point, and I
don't think it's a see it was Brian. It's not a burial because in
a way we should be grateful. No, No, I'm serious. I
don't even mean in the start, but we really should be grateful that he's
in a position that he's in. Yeah, I know the fact that it's
like all right, but he's there. Danny only got to treat him like
crap at every turn. It's that feeling. But but it's like it's like
you're you're with you end up getting to date the hottest girl in the world
that you never dreamed of, and you're just like, holy crap, and
you actually got the sex with her, but she's like just impossible to live
with you in front of your friends. Yeah, you know, it's like,
but you know what, I don't deserve a girl this good looking.
I'm married up, so even though I'm miserable and she buries me in front
of my friends and she doesn't tell me where she goes on weekends on Friday
and Saturday nights. But hey, you know, I gotta settle for being
treated like crap because she's better looking at me. That's I'm not sure we
should be that kind of thankful. But I know what you're saying, because
five years ago, you know, I mean that's a you know, Daniel
Bryan sixty minute match with Anijel McGinnis said an R eight show back in two
thousand and seven, and I would not have predicted that Daniel Bryan would be
headlining in the fall of twenty and thirteen. No chance. Yeah, so
yeah, uh well, very good. Well, and on that note,
I don't want to completely You've got a lot more you can talk about.
On the East Coast cast. We didn't cover every everything, but tune in
VFP members for the East Coast cast on Wednesday and or listen. If you
can't listen to Lie listen on delay and tune in Friday for Matt Morgan and
James and Greg will be by on Thursday and Pat we already talked about his
guests tomorrow. So I think we covered our bases and traving thinks it's and
if anybody uh wants to get get a crew or join my crew, my
PSN thing is Travington. So I'm I'm I'll finished the game. I'm all
about GT five online. So as soon as rock Star gets their servers right
and gets their stuff, hit me up and we'll like go rob some banks.
And so see that's what you're doing instead of watching Breaking Bad, You're
plan Yeah, I'm actually yeah, I'm doing real I'm blowing up meth labs
and trailer parks and stuff. Yeah. Well, very very cool, Travis,
been a pleasure. Just you've been the Daniel Bryant to Jason's John Cena.
You've proven how expendable. He is, Oh wait, what if ratings
are down though? Oh crap? All right, well, Jayson be back
next week and you'll be back in eas Coastcasting the next Monday with Bruce.
So for the second, third, or fourth time? How many times have
been tough for at least four? Okay? Thank you, Travis, awesome.
Thanks, We appreciate you. Bet invite you to email the show with
feedback or questions or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch
dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Also welcome your
feedback on Twitter. You can follow us on Twitter at pw Torch and follow
me at the Wade Keller. That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller.
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