1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:06,080 Hi, This is Fred Green of Golf Smarter with the first of two episodes 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:11,320 where Tony Manzoni made his tenth appearance on Golf Smarter number five hundred and ninety 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,160 four in May of twenty seventeen. It had been two and a half years 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,719 since we'd last spoken to Tony, and clearly we had a lot to discuss 5 00:00:21,199 --> 00:00:25,480 creating an episode longer than most. Now, after this week, there are 6 00:00:25,519 --> 00:00:29,519 two more episodes with Tony. I know I said that last week, but 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:35,159 I decided to bring back Tony's very last appearance, back when he announced his 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,920 new golf school with two of his closest friends, but it was just before 9 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:43,039 his cancer made it tough to carry that through. Tony's book, The Loss 10 00:00:43,039 --> 00:00:47,159 Fundamental, is available on Amazon, and his DVD, which we converted to 11 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,799 a private link online, is also available when you write to me. For 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:57,719 the most comprehensive information ever collected on Tony, please go to Golfsmarter dot com 13 00:00:57,759 --> 00:01:02,159 slash Tony, and while you're there, check out how to make a tax 14 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:07,439 deductible donation to our Tony Manzoni Memorial Golf Smarter Fund to benefit the first t 15 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:12,560 of Coachella Valley, where Tony lived and taught for decades. If you'd like 16 00:01:12,599 --> 00:01:18,439 to access that video, please write to me directly Golf Smarter Podcast at gmail 17 00:01:18,519 --> 00:01:23,079 dot com, or click on the Heyfred button when you visit golfsmarter dot com. 18 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,680 Take your golf game to the next level, one club at a time 19 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:36,599 with Tony Manzoni. This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights 20 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,400 from great golf minds to help you lower your score and raise your golf IQ. 21 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,280 Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf Smarter Podcast. 22 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,120 Tony. How are you, Fred? I am doing well and so 23 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,879 glad to hear from you again. It's been quite a while, but let 24 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:59,319 me let me give the audience just a taste of how many times you've been 25 00:01:59,359 --> 00:02:04,159 on this pot podst uh the first time back in twenty ten we were introduced, 26 00:02:04,439 --> 00:02:09,479 and since then you've been on twelve different episodes two fifty one. And 27 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:13,840 take notes of this, folks, because after you hear this conversation with Tony, 28 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:15,319 you're gonna want to go back and listen to other things he has to 29 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:22,960 say. Because I've had Golf Smarter listeners have told me that they've traveled cross 30 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,240 country to go get lessons with Tony. Right, you've had people come in 31 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,560 from New Jersey or Connecticut or something, Tony. Yeah, the doctor come 32 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,240 in from New York. He runs one of the largest hospitals there, and 33 00:02:35,879 --> 00:02:38,639 he came in for a two day golf instruction period, and you know, 34 00:02:38,719 --> 00:02:42,319 it just kind of I was kind of I was, well, first of 35 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,560 all, I was flabber guest at number one, and you know, it's 36 00:02:45,599 --> 00:02:49,439 a big compliment, and he's turned out to be just a wonderful friend on 37 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,319 top of it. Oh that's great. Oh that's great. I have a 38 00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:54,719 feeling I know who you're talking about. So two fifty one, two fifty 39 00:02:54,800 --> 00:03:00,280 four, two ninety one and three twenty eight, four oh eight, four 40 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,919 nine, four thirty eight, and four thirty nine, four fifty six, 41 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,319 and four fifty seven, now four fifty seven, back in twenty fourteen. 42 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,120 Really, you haven't been on that long. My favorite it's one of my 43 00:03:15,159 --> 00:03:17,599 favorite titles of all time. And the question I posted to you, Tony, 44 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:22,719 if Tiger Woods called you for help, what would you say? I 45 00:03:22,759 --> 00:03:28,919 loved that. That was a great episode. So I don't really twenty fourteen 46 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,120 was the last time you're on. That doesn't make sense. Anyway, it's 47 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,719 great to have you back on the show. Thank you so much. I'm 48 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,759 very pleased, Fred, And it's been a long time. But you know, 49 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:45,280 as as as we get older, time goes by a little faster, 50 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,719 I mean a blinket than I am an old man. So I'm not even 51 00:03:49,719 --> 00:03:52,240 gonna ask this time how old you are, because I think I asked you 52 00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:53,639 before, which was rude, and I'm not going to do it again. 53 00:03:55,479 --> 00:04:00,840 But you've outlived a lot of your friends. Let's just say that geometers turned 54 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,960 over a few times. Yeah, and you've outlived a lot of friends and 55 00:04:03,039 --> 00:04:05,840 a lot of famous people that you hung out with down in the desert, 56 00:04:06,039 --> 00:04:12,280 isn't it true? That's true. I mean starting out with the number one 57 00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:17,759 guy, Frank Sinatra. His desk was you know, it was a catastrophe 58 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:23,160 for all his fans, including myself. Yeah, I bet. But didn't 59 00:04:23,199 --> 00:04:28,560 you tell me once that hanging out with Sinatra and the rat pack down in 60 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,600 those days down in the desert kind of had a negative impact on your golf 61 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:40,480 career, didn't it? Your professional touring golf? Well, when his the 62 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,319 lady that ran his compound, her name was Vine, and I was working 63 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:50,120 at mission Hills Country clubs head professional. Once I got invited, it seemed 64 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:55,800 like I got invited just about every night because he was retired at that time, 65 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,920 and I was opening up that pro shop, you know, close to 66 00:05:00,959 --> 00:05:05,360 five point thirty every morning, and I was leaving the Sinoptra compound after two 67 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:12,600 o'clock in the morning every evening. So yes, everything suffered a bit, 68 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,279 but I couldn't pass that opportunity. No, it was just it was an 69 00:05:15,319 --> 00:05:19,759 incredible thing. Yeah. I mean there's there are golfers who have played on 70 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,040 the tour who said, yes, I played on the tour and I won 71 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,560 once, but none of them get to say, but I got to hang 72 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,680 out with Sinatra every night for way too long. Yeah, it was. 73 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:36,800 It still feels like a Fellini film to me, with on the people I 74 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:44,759 met and the unbelievable dinners and conversation. It was just incredible. That's amazing. 75 00:05:45,519 --> 00:05:49,120 Also, I've been promoting this podcast that I've been putting out recently as 76 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,519 a show that I did in nineteen eighty seven, but it's just so much 77 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,800 fun that I had to bring it back. Of this show Radio Baseball Cards 78 00:05:57,319 --> 00:06:00,120 that's hosted by the late Don Drysdale. You knew Dry as well, right, 79 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,279 I did. I met him on a couple of occasions, and I 80 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:09,800 also knew his wife, who was involved in a lot of golf activities, 81 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,759 and you know, she was an Olympic champion and unbelievable gal. But Don 82 00:06:14,879 --> 00:06:20,000 was a unique individual and very nice. Obviously one of the great pitchers of 83 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,839 all time. And I have a baseball signed by him that I cherish. 84 00:06:25,639 --> 00:06:29,360 Unbelievable. All right, Well, let's talk about golf now, enough history 85 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:34,199 on where you've been in the marks that you've left. I had this idea, 86 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,199 and that's why I wanted to talk to you about taking your game to 87 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:43,839 the next level, one club at a time, right, because there are 88 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,959 some clubs for some people just don't work, right they Oh, yeah, 89 00:06:48,079 --> 00:06:51,680 right. You know, I think golf clubs, as we all know that 90 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:59,240 play and suffer through this challenge, some golf clubs don't like you. I 91 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,959 mean, I've had wedges that I wanted to tie to my car and drive 92 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:09,120 around the block. Let me pay them back with all the skull shots that 93 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,720 I hit with him. So I've often said that I had a five iron 94 00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:16,560 that I was allergic to. I know exactly what you mean. Yeah, 95 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,639 all kidding aside. That's why getting fitted is so important, because then you 96 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:31,759 eliminate the blame factor. I recently was fitted for a new set of clubs, 97 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,879 and I really love these clubs, but there seems to be one club 98 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:43,839 that is not cooperating. I've got I'm hitting everything where I'm pointing, I'm 99 00:07:43,879 --> 00:07:46,959 my target. It goes to where I'm you know, focused on, except 100 00:07:46,959 --> 00:07:53,399 this one club just takes this huge right turn every time. Is that possibly 101 00:07:53,639 --> 00:07:59,560 because the set there's one club that was not correctly made in that set? 102 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,480 I mean, what can I do that? Sure? Sure, well often 103 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,759 lie it changes, especially if they're they're not cast clubs, and even cast 104 00:08:07,759 --> 00:08:11,600 clubs, you can move them a little bit. So yeah, that happens 105 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:16,199 a lot. Or it's you know, it's because you fear hitting the shot 106 00:08:16,279 --> 00:08:22,160 with that club, which compounds the problem. And sure, you know probably 107 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:28,240 in most cases that's it. There's a it's so difficult to stay in that 108 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,519 have that feeling that you're going to hit a good shot prior to hitting it. 109 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:39,440 And I think that's the challenge for everyone at every level. Yeah, 110 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,120 you know, I haven't had them long enough to fear the club, and 111 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:48,360 it's a club that in previous sets I've been you know, really excited about 112 00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:50,159 Oh good, I've got a six iron shot that I want to make here, 113 00:08:50,639 --> 00:08:54,720 and now this six iron is baffling me. I'm just wondering if maybe 114 00:08:56,159 --> 00:08:58,279 I should take it back to the club fitter and say, can we test 115 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:03,799 to see if this is within its correct specs? Is that? Oh? 116 00:09:03,879 --> 00:09:05,759 Sure? They could do that quite easily. They can check the loft and 117 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,320 lie on the club, and they can also check the shaft you know, 118 00:09:09,879 --> 00:09:16,440 if it's you know, performing properly, and they have they have your whole 119 00:09:16,519 --> 00:09:18,559 set that to go go buy, so they can just you know, make 120 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,399 sure that it is matched. And this does happen, there's no question about 121 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,679 it. But I'm glad to hear that you had your clubs fitted. And 122 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,600 that's really an important thing, you know when you when you think of the 123 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:37,279 the top professionals have it done. We we meager players must have it done. 124 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,559 And that's the problem. Most people will go and buy a club right 125 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:46,679 off the rack, and then they're chagrined when it doesn't work for them, 126 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,440 and a lot of times it's just because the club doesn't fit right. Well, 127 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,480 what about they if they go into the shop and said, hey, 128 00:09:52,519 --> 00:09:56,679 you know what, I hit my friends driver and I crushed it. I 129 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,679 want to buy that driver. Yeah, it's it's hard to replic. I 130 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,039 mean, I have a good friend that is he's noted for those kinds of 131 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,320 things, and he'll go and he'll try a demo club, but he'll want 132 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,840 to buy that demo club, you know, And a lot of times they 133 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,919 said, but we can't sell you this one, but we'll get one like 134 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:20,440 it. But he refuses to do that because psychologically, if he gets another 135 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,080 club that has the same name and it's supposed to be the same thing, 136 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,879 and hits a bad shot with it, he's not going to say, well 137 00:10:26,919 --> 00:10:30,720 that shot was because I swung poorly or did something. He's going to say, 138 00:10:30,759 --> 00:10:33,600 no, this isn't the same club. So there they were, right 139 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,559 back to that psychological thing that we all fight. Yeah. Actually, about 140 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,879 ten years or so ago, I remember having a conversation on the show with 141 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,360 Kenny Nicholson when we were working with Edwin Watts Golf, and he said, 142 00:10:48,759 --> 00:10:52,600 if you have an opportunity to swing a friend's club and you like it, 143 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,559 try to buy that club off your friend, because you're never going to find 144 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:03,960 it that exact right club in a Yeah, that's true. Yeah, there 145 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,120 was no question I was going to get fitted. I we've been advocating being 146 00:11:07,159 --> 00:11:11,200 fitted, you know since the very beginning. We've talked to guys like Tom 147 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,600 wish On, one of the you know, the great custom club makers in 148 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:24,480 the world, and getting fitted is so important. But I always when I 149 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,039 recommend to people to get fitted, they're like, you know, but I'm 150 00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:31,799 not. I'm going to wait till I get more consistent. I want to 151 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,519 wait until I feel more comfort. What do you tell people who who have 152 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:41,480 you know, who aren't don't feel like it's necessary yet they're going to get 153 00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:46,360 to some place where they're going to do that. I can tell you that's 154 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,159 a fallacy to say that I'm going to wait till I'm going to be more 155 00:11:50,159 --> 00:11:58,320 consistent. You better have a lifespan of about two hundred because the only guy 156 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:03,360 I know that got to that point was and Hogan. Everybody else mishits the 157 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:09,279 ball and that's just the nature of the sport. Really well, it isn't 158 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,399 even a sport. It's a challenge. That's the nature of it. I 159 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,399 mean, think about it. It's the little ball sitting there not a very 160 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:20,600 big target. And we're swinging a golf club's in the sixties, seventies, 161 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,919 eighties, nineties, depending on your speed and youth at that little creature down 162 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:30,440 there, and we're told to hit through it. But it's really hard to 163 00:12:30,519 --> 00:12:35,639 hit through it without trying to hit it. And that's it's a constant it's 164 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,120 a constant challenge. And say, I'm going to wait till I get consistent. 165 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,080 It's just, you know, you want to start laughing. But a 166 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,759 lot of people feel I've heard that said before, and I say, you 167 00:12:43,799 --> 00:12:46,720 know you're going to wait a long time. Pal. The whole thing about 168 00:12:46,799 --> 00:12:52,679 getting fitted is the clubs feel good. You get a sense of oh, 169 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,720 the weight feels right. I feel like I could swing this club. And 170 00:12:56,759 --> 00:13:01,200 it gives you confidence. It really does. Of course, if they're all 171 00:13:01,639 --> 00:13:03,759 somewhat the same, they can't be exactly the same. But if they're somewhat 172 00:13:03,759 --> 00:13:09,000 the same, especially the shaft, you got a much better chance to hit 173 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:15,080 your Mishits can get much better. Right. So somebody recently said to me, 174 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:16,919 I want to be more consistent first, and I said, well, 175 00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:20,720 how do you score? What do you generally shoot? He goes, well, 176 00:13:22,039 --> 00:13:26,399 you know, I pretty much shoot in the upper eighties low nineties consistently. 177 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,000 I said, well, then you are consistent. What's the problem. 178 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,440 Well, I have mishits during the game. I said, well, everybody 179 00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:35,639 has mis hits. But there are you working on the things that you're not 180 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:39,960 good at when you're practicing? Oh, I never practice. I don't have 181 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,879 time to precic. Well, then you're never going to get consistent if you 182 00:13:41,879 --> 00:13:46,799 don't practice. And you know you want to talk about getting consistent, you 183 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,720 want to talk about getting better, right, Yeah, that's right, that's 184 00:13:50,799 --> 00:13:56,639 right. And really we learn more about our game when we mishit the ball 185 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,960 then we hit than when we really you know, you hit it pure when 186 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,279 you you know generally when you drive it down the middle and you just clocked 187 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,039 it, Uh, you're just you know, you look and you get so 188 00:14:09,159 --> 00:14:13,320 excited, but you don't get a lot of feedback because you're kind of in 189 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,840 that zone where you're not really thinking about how to do it when you hit 190 00:14:16,879 --> 00:14:22,600 a poor shot. And this is a I all the golf teams have had 191 00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:24,440 through all the years with these young guys, I tell them, listen, 192 00:14:26,279 --> 00:14:28,840 don't let when you hit a poor shot, your first thought is anger. 193 00:14:30,559 --> 00:14:35,039 What you should do is watch that ball and blueprint in your in your mind 194 00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:39,600 of what what's the spin on it is? The spinning right left? Whatever 195 00:14:39,639 --> 00:14:41,679 are you? Did you hit it thin or did you hit it fat? 196 00:14:41,919 --> 00:14:45,399 And and then then there there's a there's a remedy for those things. But 197 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,679 if you don't, if you kind of black out and just get mad, 198 00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:52,159 you know you that's the time when you learn. And that's why turing pros 199 00:14:52,159 --> 00:14:56,440 are so darn good, because they get they they when they know when they 200 00:14:56,519 --> 00:15:00,279 hit a ball and they block it, they know what they've done and they 201 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,720 can make a quick cure. But they're really conscious of what happened. They're 202 00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:09,960 not. They don't just bluster and slam the club on the ground and so 203 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:18,879 forth. My favorite is when somebody says, you know they're having a problem, 204 00:15:20,039 --> 00:15:20,919 Oh, well, I know what I did wrong. It's really how 205 00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:24,159 do you know that? Have you ever had a lesson? Have you ever 206 00:15:24,159 --> 00:15:26,759 had anyone tell you what your issue is? No? But I just know 207 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,039 I've watched a lot of TV, so yeah, I know what I'm doing 208 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:35,159 wrong. Oh okay, we'll let it go at that. The other thing 209 00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:39,360 about being fitted for clubs and having clubs in your hands that you feel have 210 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:48,120 been not custom made, but customized for you. Is your level of confidence 211 00:15:48,159 --> 00:15:52,360 when you're playing. I know that I've only been playing with these clubs now 212 00:15:52,399 --> 00:15:58,120 for just under two months, and my last round I walked out there, 213 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,320 I had so much confidence when I walked off the range that I was able 214 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:08,080 to carry through the round, that I had one double bogie in the round, 215 00:16:08,879 --> 00:16:14,840 and I just you know, I shot an eighty and I was just 216 00:16:14,879 --> 00:16:18,399 ecstatic. But it felt great the entire time. So the amount of confidence, 217 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,799 sure, that's a wonderful feeling, you know, because the game is 218 00:16:21,799 --> 00:16:25,759 a field game, and it's wonderful when when you have something in your hands 219 00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:30,080 that feels right. And there's lots of times where you'll have a golf club 220 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:36,039 that doesn't feel right. And I promise you don't beat your head, you 221 00:16:36,039 --> 00:16:37,600 know, beat yourself over the head trying to make it feel good. Get 222 00:16:37,639 --> 00:16:40,919 it, get another one. You know, I told you about the three 223 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,320 what I had for so long, and I just you know, just plagued 224 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,480 me. And instead of replacing it like I should have immediately, I fought 225 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,320 the darn thing and it just wasn't for me. And and so I suffered 226 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:57,720 with a lot of bad shots, whether it was psychological or the club was 227 00:16:57,799 --> 00:17:03,039 really too heavy or whatever. Uh. And that's the best advice I can 228 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,759 have anybody. If you have a putter or whatever that you feel like you 229 00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:10,960 can't putt with, get another one. I mean, you know, that's 230 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,640 okay. I mean even the touring pros do that. Yeah, but the 231 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:19,480 touring pros seem to change their grip on their putter a lot too. Well, 232 00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:22,920 that's you know, that's probably you know, when you're putting for a 233 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,000 million dollars, it's a little different than when you're putting for two dollars. 234 00:17:26,759 --> 00:17:33,359 So what happens is that we started getting too involved in the action and we 235 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,640 we we acquire a little bit of a hint a flitch, like they call 236 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:44,200 it the yip, or you where you're you're too involved with impact, especially 237 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,480 with the putter, or you're in putting the ball is just a matter of 238 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,240 swinging the putter back and forth in a rhythm. But they've made so much 239 00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:56,680 about it. So you know, with all these claw grips and this grip 240 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:02,599 and that grip, and the big grips now are very popular because the hands 241 00:18:02,599 --> 00:18:06,440 are taken out of it a bit, But I think the big grips take 242 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,640 away the feel of the head, and that was very important. If you 243 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,880 look at the putters of the past and some of the great guys that putt 244 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,799 it, they had very small grips because they wanted to feel the way to 245 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:23,119 the club head. So you know, it's it's all relative. But right 246 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,839 now that seems to be the thing. You see, the grips on most 247 00:18:26,839 --> 00:18:30,680 of the putters are pretty large. Yeah, yeah, they're thick grips. 248 00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:36,119 I love having the thick grip on my putter just because it keeps me from 249 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:41,559 squeezing too tightly. It allows me to loosen my hands. Yeah, that's 250 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,640 very true. You know, you can use more of a shoulder arm stroke 251 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,319 opposed to you know, more of a popping or handstroke. You look at 252 00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:52,319 you know, some of the great putters were you know, they hinged the 253 00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:56,160 putter back and through, like Billy Casper and people like that, and and 254 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,240 today's world you get Seneca who kind of pop putts everything. But you know, 255 00:19:02,519 --> 00:19:03,440 you know, when I teach, I have a lot of juniors I 256 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:08,559 teach that have done very well, and I don't emphasize a lot of technique 257 00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:14,880 and putting. I really want them to have a natural feel and to train 258 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:22,799 them if anything on distance control, their eyes will eventually get used to work 259 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,720 what square is. But when you start talking about putting and how to do 260 00:19:26,759 --> 00:19:32,480 it too much, I think you get people too conscious of the stroke during 261 00:19:32,599 --> 00:19:34,799 putting the ball and what are we doing when we're playing. We're rolling the 262 00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:37,920 ball on the surface. And you know, if you just keep it simple 263 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,200 like that, you take these little kids, you give them a putter and 264 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,640 a ball, and you see them put terrific because their mind isn't clogged up 265 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,119 with all this technique. I think that's that's it's been so overdone and there's 266 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,759 so many things you can buy where you're putting. Take the putter straight back, 267 00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:57,319 and good lord, the greatest putters in the world didn't take it straight 268 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:03,720 back. Some of them cut the someone blocked hook the butt and George Lowell, 269 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:10,440 gosh, Maxwell, I've seen so many guys cut cut putts, but 270 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,440 that was their natural way of doing it and they didn't question it. It's 271 00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:15,640 like, you know, it's like Jim Furick with his golf swing. You 272 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,640 know, if you wanted to break that down and say, well, that's 273 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,039 not on plane. Well it is on playing when he hits the ball. 274 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,640 So I'm a you know, as I teach, and I've been teaching a 275 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:33,279 long time at every level from turing professional to twenty five handicappers. The less 276 00:20:33,319 --> 00:20:38,759 you say the better, the more more they can the more they can see 277 00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:45,480 it and feel it based on words you give them, the better, the 278 00:20:45,519 --> 00:20:48,480 more technical you get. Most people can't handle that, you know, And 279 00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:52,680 I think most people do their best when they see it more than when they're 280 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,119 told how it's supposed to happen. I know as a kid that I can 281 00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,519 eat. I learned to play golf watching the people hit the ball that I 282 00:21:00,599 --> 00:21:03,480 caddied for not to be said about that. What did you mean when you 283 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:10,319 said cut putting? Well, there's there's I'm trying to think of the guy. 284 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,319 But he was a great putter on tour, and he literally cut across 285 00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:18,599 the ball. He swung from out to ind so he put side spin on 286 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,279 it. That would literally make the ball. The spin would be going from 287 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:26,559 left to right. And you know, we've heard many times you get a 288 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,880 get a range ball and get the stripe straight so that when you put it, 289 00:21:32,079 --> 00:21:37,519 the stripe doesn't wobble. You know that's that's an effective tool to practice. 290 00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:41,559 But who's that. I'm trying to think of the guy that was the 291 00:21:41,599 --> 00:21:45,599 greatest putter of all time where he hooded the putter going back and then hit 292 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,359 from in into out like like you're hooking the ball, and he won a 293 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,319 million tournaments because he was such a great cutter. My point here is this, 294 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,599 you gotta do it the way it feels. And once you get away 295 00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:03,400 from the actual feel of your putting stroke and now you start trying to manufacture 296 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,079 it, you're gonna get in a lot of trouble. All this stuff about 297 00:22:07,079 --> 00:22:10,759 well, don't let your wrist hinge or it has to be a flat wrist 298 00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:14,000 through impact. No it doesn't, No, it doesn't. In fact, 299 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,599 a lot of times when you're trying to push that thing through with the wrist 300 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:22,000 stained flat, you blockhead it all the time. I mean there's been putters, 301 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,680 Bobby Jones, Arnold Palm, there has been all kinds of ways of 302 00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:30,279 doing it, and you gotta find the thing that feels comfortable to you, 303 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:34,599 whether it's grip, stance, alignment, what feels comfortable to you, and 304 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,519 then just roll the ball on the surface. Just get to get to where 305 00:22:38,519 --> 00:22:42,000 you can roll the ball and get away from all this other stuff. And 306 00:22:42,559 --> 00:22:45,720 first of all, you won't get the yips doing that. But boy, 307 00:22:45,759 --> 00:22:48,519 when you start overthinking putting and look at Ben Hogan, that's what he did, 308 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,519 and you know, it's just it's a shame to see it. I 309 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:59,880 have young boys I train and they start saying, Coach, I can't putt, 310 00:23:00,519 --> 00:23:03,000 which is just ridiculous. I said, you mean, you can't roll 311 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,559 the ball on a flat surface and they looked at me like, well, 312 00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:07,279 what do you mean. I said, yeah, you can, but not 313 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,599 into a hole. Yeah. So, but you know, it's honestly, 314 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:18,720 I think the less you emphasize putting, the better you'll putt. The more 315 00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:23,279 you talk about it and think about it, I think it puts a block. 316 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,359 I think that's where all that stuff comes from. I think with Hogan, 317 00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:33,200 he hit it so close in his later years and he felt like he 318 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,480 should be rewarded for that. You know, like a dog with a good 319 00:23:37,519 --> 00:23:41,359 boy, he goes outside and does his business. When he comes in, 320 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,039 he wants a cookie, But in golf, there is no cookie. You 321 00:23:44,079 --> 00:23:45,240 still got to get the ball in the hole, whether it's a five foot 322 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:51,079 putter or a fifty foot putt. And I think that's what happened with Hogan 323 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,519 because he made statements that said, you know, the putting shouldn't be so 324 00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:57,759 important, you should get points just for getting it close to the hole. 325 00:23:57,799 --> 00:24:02,920 Well, that was his frustrat coming out because he did hit it so close 326 00:24:03,799 --> 00:24:07,799 and and and unfortunately he did have the yips. He couldn't pull a putter 327 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,839 back on a short clut. Wow, that's so interesting. I mean I 328 00:24:11,839 --> 00:24:14,839 watched him at the Olympic Club, the only time I had the pleasure of 329 00:24:14,839 --> 00:24:18,839 seeing him play golf, and and at the Olympic Club he played in the 330 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,839 I think it was the Open, and I mean he hit every fair with 331 00:24:22,039 --> 00:24:23,920 every green, and I don't think he had more than a twelve foot put 332 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:29,079 all day. And the only plus he made were kickings. But when he 333 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,680 got that four or five footer, he couldn't His pant leg would be shaken. 334 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,119 He couldn't pull a putter back. Wow, you think about that. 335 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,279 This is this is a guy that could hit a go in a motel and 336 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:42,079 hit a two arm right down the hallway and not hit either side of the 337 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:47,160 wall. I mean that's what he could do. I mean, that's that's 338 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,920 a genius. So now you walk up to him and say, Ben, 339 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,039 you mean to tell me that you can't take this quarterback and roll the ball 340 00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:55,720 on the green? What? What? What do you? What are you 341 00:24:55,759 --> 00:24:57,640 thinking about? See? But you know, of course you couldn't do that. 342 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:06,400 But I mean that that's that's the silliness of putting. And look at 343 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:15,920 all the look at all the apparatuses you can buy to put better. I've 344 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:23,279 never heard anybody describe using the analogy if it is an analogy or not true. 345 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,079 About hitting a two iron down a hallway in a hotel room and not 346 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,079 hitting the walls, is that actually a story that happened or is that just 347 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,799 from what you know? You hear all kinds of stories about him, just 348 00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:41,200 like you do more Norman. But he actually had a bet that he could 349 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:48,000 do it, and he did right off the carpet. Phenomenal the guy could. 350 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,359 He could not only control the flight of the ball, but the trajectory 351 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,759 of the ball. He was It was magical. I believe me when I 352 00:25:56,799 --> 00:26:02,160 tell you it was magical watching him play. That Olympic Club is really hard 353 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,400 courses, you know. And then they had it set up for the Open 354 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,279 and he made it look like, you know, toy Land. It was 355 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,839 just he just went around a golf course and just diced it. And in 356 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,039 fact, I was a very low handicapped player. I was in the plus 357 00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:18,839 area, and when I saw him play, I realized I really don't know 358 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,960 how to play golf. And it was watching a master, you know, 359 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,480 do a painting or something. I felt. I was happy to see it, 360 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,119 but I was very insecure. When I got in my car, I 361 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,839 can say that that's really interesting and painful. Well, I think that take 362 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,240 this idea of taking your game to the next level one club at a time, 363 00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:45,319 which I suggested, but I do want to cover it. I think 364 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:51,880 starting at the putter is a great place to start with that. So I'm 365 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,759 going to toss out these club names and give me a thought or a tip 366 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,920 on what you can do to take your game to the next level with that 367 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:07,599 specific club. And let's start with the putter. You know, again, 368 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,079 with the putter. What I teach I teach people to hold the putter comfortably 369 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:17,559 and any way they really want to hold it within reason, And I work 370 00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:22,880 on I work on distance control, whether it's a five foot putt or a 371 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,160 twenty foot putt or a fifty foot put I don't tell them to get it 372 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,920 into a circle around the green. I tell them to try to roll it 373 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:37,559 into the hole on all putts, because I think that's a natural feeling. 374 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,400 Where you're saying put it in a three foot circle. Now you bring it 375 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,119 into another and another situation that you have to deal with. So in putting, 376 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,160 and I'm teaching them to roll the ball. In fact, in fact, 377 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,960 one of the great pro said, if I were going to teach putting 378 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,000 today, and this is this is the fellow that helped Jack Nicholas putt, 379 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,480 he said, I would put somebody on the green with no holes, and 380 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,039 I would teach and to roll the ball distances, teach him how to roll 381 00:28:03,079 --> 00:28:07,759 the ball and not hit it and skid it, but roll it. And 382 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:12,799 I believe that quite a bit. So I actually want to go to a 383 00:28:12,839 --> 00:28:18,960 different club that I saw a video tip that you did that I've used ever 384 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,240 since, and I'm going to go to the eight iron for using it around 385 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:29,880 the fringe to get the ball onto the green using your eight iron club cutter. 386 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:36,000 Yeah, Paul Runyon was was the first guy that really did this where 387 00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:38,119 he would take the take an eight iron or a seven iron or a five 388 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,599 iron, whatever, depending on the distance you had to cover. Uh. 389 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:47,119 And he would take the heel of the club off the ground so that he 390 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:52,119 could get the shaft in the same alignment as your putter, and he put 391 00:28:52,119 --> 00:28:55,480 his hands on it on the lengths in some cases if he had a five 392 00:28:55,519 --> 00:28:57,319 iron, and he just slide his hands down near the medal, but so 393 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:03,440 that he was replicating standing up with his putter. And then he used a 394 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,480 putting type stroke, now not exactly. The club had to come up a 395 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:12,680 little bit, but he used more of a one lever stroke opposed to cocking 396 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:18,039 the wrist or doing anything like that. And the idea was is to find 397 00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:21,480 out how far on the green you had to land the ball and then let 398 00:29:21,519 --> 00:29:23,000 it release to the hole. So if you were up close, you'd be 399 00:29:23,079 --> 00:29:26,880 hitting an eight iron, nine iron or even maybe a pitching wedge. You 400 00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:32,079 wouldn't use this on a with a sandwich, it's too much loft. But 401 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,160 that's a much simpler way to chip. Most people will pull out their sand 402 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,160 wedge or pitching wedge and then use it all around the green when they're chipping. 403 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:41,720 I'm not talking about pitching the ball. I'm talking about chipping it, 404 00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:48,319 and that's a much more difficult shot, much more difficult. Yeah, it 405 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,720 is. I when I was telling you that this eighty that I shot the 406 00:29:52,759 --> 00:30:00,240 other day, I only had I had six one putts on the front nine, 407 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:06,039 I was one over par. After nine, I only had one birdie. 408 00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:11,039 But that means I was coming up short on my approach shots. But 409 00:30:11,079 --> 00:30:14,400 I was getting it close to the hole. And a lot of times I've 410 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:21,440 been using that eight iron chip and it Once you learn to control that, 411 00:30:21,519 --> 00:30:23,440 once you feel comfortable with it, it's a great shot to have in your 412 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:29,400 bag. Oh yeah, because you know when you're chipping, you're not trying 413 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,720 to impart backspin. You want the ball to release the hole and quicker you 414 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,400 can get it on the green the better. When you have a more lofted 415 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,519 club, you have to lift the club a bit and hit down on the 416 00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:48,000 ball a bit, and that brings them into a lot of areas of getting 417 00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:52,799 tight with the hands and either sculling it or hitting way behind it. They 418 00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:56,880 call it chilly dip, but both of them are hideous, especially the skull. 419 00:30:56,279 --> 00:30:59,279 Like the guys did one time, how far do you hit the I 420 00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:03,880 hit my sandwich about one hundred and fifty yards just really, he says, 421 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:10,039 yeah, from a green side bunker. Yeah, you know, that's that 422 00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:15,720 happens. That happens with these clubs that are constructed that way. You have 423 00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:18,640 you have to be a little bit more accurate in your stroke or with a 424 00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:22,759 punty of stroke. Even if you hit a little thin it doesn't really affect 425 00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:26,039 anything, and you know, the ball will roll just about the same as 426 00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:29,519 you did if you hit a peer. I've noticed a lot of people will 427 00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:34,440 take a lob wedge or a high lofted club if they're five, ten, 428 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,519 fifteen yards off the green, Well, let's just keep it at ten yards 429 00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:44,039 off the green and in. But they're trying to get the ball to land, 430 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,640 land softly and then trickle up. But isn't the goal. Shouldn't you 431 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,359 try to get the ball onto the flat surface as soon as possible and let 432 00:31:52,359 --> 00:31:56,480 it release, let it roll as long as it you know can or do 433 00:31:56,519 --> 00:32:00,799 you want to try to drop it in? No? No, And when 434 00:32:00,799 --> 00:32:04,440 you're when you're doing those kinds of things, you you've got to you've got 435 00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:08,160 grain to deal with. Uh. Sometimes you know you have a set the 436 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:15,160 green goes up or you'll have a second lever. Uh, your your your 437 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,920 target is way too small when you do those kinds of things, and sometimes 438 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,319 you impart back spin on it where you pinch it a little bit and you 439 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,480 get too much back spin. So you want to get all that out of 440 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,759 there. You want to just get that ball on the green and let it 441 00:32:27,839 --> 00:32:30,000 release of the hole. It's just an easier shot. I mean, that's 442 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:36,160 that's the bottom line. Because the nerves do the nerves do get get in, 443 00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:39,680 especially if you've got that ball a little bit of tight grass. It's 444 00:32:39,799 --> 00:32:43,720 it's much better to take an eight or nine ir or seven iron. Just 445 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:49,759 putchip it. It's so much simpler. Is there a rule of thumb to 446 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,559 how much a ball will release depending on which club that you use, Like 447 00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:59,759 if you're using the eight iron versus a pitching wedge and you're just you're chipping 448 00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:04,240 it up up on the green. Sure, I mean, let's just say 449 00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:07,759 that if let's say we're going to land the ball a yard or two under 450 00:33:07,759 --> 00:33:12,440 the green, If you land the ball a yard or two on the green 451 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,400 with a seven iron, the ball is going to release a lot farther than 452 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,400 it does a nine iron, unless you're unless you're unless you're hitting it harder. 453 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,599 But if you're consistent in your stroke, so the less loft you have, 454 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,480 the more it's going to release. So so you don't I mean, 455 00:33:28,519 --> 00:33:30,160 I don't just use the eight iron when I chip, because if I have 456 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,240 a if the pins way back and I'm in the front of the green, 457 00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:37,160 I'll take a five iron and do the same thing because I know that my 458 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,200 target is still going to be where I want the ball on land. It's 459 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,319 going to be the same as if it was an eight iron or a nine 460 00:33:43,359 --> 00:33:45,640 iron, but the ball is going to release farther because I have less less 461 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,079 loft. So it's it's really about where you want the ball to land, 462 00:33:50,599 --> 00:33:55,880 and then you decide which club to use from there exactly, and and how 463 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:02,279 do you pick the area of where you wanted to land you looking for? 464 00:34:02,279 --> 00:34:07,359 For me, you know, for me, it's unless the pain is really 465 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,039 I mean the cop is real close. For me, it's about a couple 466 00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:14,440 of yards on the green, four or five feet and then let it release. 467 00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:20,480 But again, my target might get a little closer to me if it's 468 00:34:20,519 --> 00:34:25,039 a short a short chip, but again my target, my landing target is 469 00:34:25,079 --> 00:34:29,679 always close to me. Opposed to if I had a sand wedge or a 470 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:37,760 lob wedge in my hand. All right, now, let's go back to 471 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:42,280 our wedges, back to this one club at a time. Let's go I 472 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,440 guess with your lob wedge. If I carry I carry a sixty degree, 473 00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:53,159 a fifty seven degree, and then a fifty two and a pitching wedge, 474 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:58,920 which is what about a forty eight? So I carry I like to carry 475 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,480 a bunch of wedges with me as opposed to carrying a lot of hybrids or 476 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:09,599 fairway woods. So the lob wedge, what can you do? What will 477 00:35:09,639 --> 00:35:13,639 that help you do to get your game to the next level? And what 478 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,679 should you be practicing? Which with a high lofted club like that, Well, 479 00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:23,320 the low blodge is strictly for hitting the ball high and soft. So 480 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,519 it's a shot where you want to you know, you're above the green or 481 00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:30,599 excuse me, below the green, and you need to throw it up there, 482 00:35:30,639 --> 00:35:32,840 but you don't want it to release. That's what the lobledge is for. 483 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,480 Because of the loft, you can go at it with a little bit 484 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:42,800 of speed and the ball will just go higher. And that's shots you should 485 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,159 practice a lot because there are times you need it. But I know so 486 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:52,480 many people that overdo it when they have a much simpler shot where it doesn't 487 00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:53,719 call for that kind of shot, but they still do it. In fact, 488 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,039 Phil Nicholson is one of the guys that does that. But you know 489 00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:01,400 he's like a wizard. But you can't. Yeah, let's not compare ourselves 490 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:06,119 to what Phil Micholson can do, because well you can't. Even guys on 491 00:36:06,159 --> 00:36:08,960 tour can't do that. Yeah, exactly. But you know, when you're 492 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,880 in and around the green, which is the scoring area, whether you're pitching 493 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,280 the ball on, you want to do it the simplest way, the way 494 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:21,000 that even if you miss hit, it doesn't become a catastrophe. When you 495 00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:23,599 start lifting that club up and bringing it down on the ball in a more 496 00:36:23,639 --> 00:36:30,000 steeper angle, it brings in the mishit is going to be. It could 497 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,440 be horrendous, or you line driving over the green into a lake or something 498 00:36:34,519 --> 00:36:37,840 like that. Where when you're using a more level to the ground stroke, 499 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,880 if you hit a little bit thin or a little bit fat, you don't 500 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,440 lose, it doesn't hurt you. And that's what I when I play, 501 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:52,320 and even when I played well, after being around Paul running and listening to 502 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,159 him, my game improved dramatically. Even when I would miss a lot of 503 00:36:57,199 --> 00:37:00,239 greens, I could get it up and down a lot easier than I had 504 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:01,480 in the past, because I was one of these guys that wore out my 505 00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:06,800 sandwich. You know. Yeah, well turning. I think the best thing 506 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:12,599 I ever heard about that was trying to turn three shots into two. Sure, 507 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,400 sure that that's that's the whole name of the game. And everybody misses 508 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:22,079 greens. Everyone does. As I tell my boys, if you hit ten 509 00:37:22,119 --> 00:37:27,039 balls, the seven of them better be with the short clubs, the scoring 510 00:37:27,079 --> 00:37:31,000 clubs, because the driver okay, yes, the drivers. It's built for 511 00:37:31,079 --> 00:37:36,840 one thing, to get the ball in play with a fairly good distance. 512 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,760 But it's not it's not a long drive club as it's been you know television. 513 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,239 That's all they talk about as well, Yeah I hit that four hundred 514 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,440 yards and three fifty and whatever. They don't tell you that the ground as 515 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:51,719 hard as a highway number one. That's how they said you get four four 516 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,800 hundred yards a roll. They don't tell you any of that stuff. But 517 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:59,679 it's too much emphasis on that and not enough emphasis on you know, distance 518 00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:02,719 contry role taking the right club ken Vent, sure you should tell me when 519 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,440 you got a seven iron to the green, take a six iron out and 520 00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:09,760 hit it. You're gotta be surprised because if you really, if you kept 521 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,400 the chart of every time you hit a ball to the green, were you 522 00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:16,239 short or long, ninety percent of the time you're short, you're short. 523 00:38:16,639 --> 00:38:22,239 So yeah, absolutely, so it was a you know, and there's something 524 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,880 I followed and it improved my game. I got the ball a lot closer 525 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,000 to the hole by doing that, and he got that from Hogan. Yeah, 526 00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:31,480 club up, that's just club up on your approach shots, no question. 527 00:38:32,119 --> 00:38:36,320 Like when I'm talking about the three shots to two. If you're you're 528 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,360 the point is you want to chip up to the green and get it close 529 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,159 enough where you can one putt. Where I play with people, if you're 530 00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:51,880 pitching doing a pick shot from thirty yards or twenty yards in there, if 531 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,320 you get it on the green, they're like, hey, great shot. 532 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,480 It's like I left myself a thirty five foot putt. That's not a great 533 00:38:57,519 --> 00:39:00,360 shot. I mean, yeah, I'm on the green, but big d 534 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,239 I mean, the point was I wanted to get I wanted to get within 535 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:07,559 five feet of a hole. Well, I'll give you a good example of 536 00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:10,400 that. I've got a lot of young boys that can hit it the long 537 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:15,440 ways, okay, and we look get on a par five and they can 538 00:39:15,559 --> 00:39:17,599 reach it with a three wood in some cases, I mean, I mean 539 00:39:19,079 --> 00:39:22,079 power five that's like five fifty or five seventy five. And I tell them, 540 00:39:22,119 --> 00:39:28,400 look, the trajectory of that ball coming in is either gonna if you 541 00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:30,880 mishit it you're gonna get You're gonna bury it in the lip of the of 542 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,400 the green side bunkers, or if it hits the green, it's going to 543 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,519 the back of the green or maybe even over. So you're always gonna be 544 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,320 looking at a forty or fifty foot putt that you've got to get down in 545 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,400 two and a lot of times your three putt it and now you say, 546 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,239 god, I hit the green in two and I've made a five. Okay. 547 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,719 It's much simpler if you can hit something up there were in your scoring 548 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:58,960 range, like sixty seventy yards. Now you can take your sandwich and throw 549 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:00,079 it up there and you can get a So you're gonna make a lot of 550 00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:06,039 birdies that way. But again, you hear that the announcers talk about these 551 00:40:06,039 --> 00:40:08,239 guys, well, Bob, you know, he's got a seven iron, 552 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,960 it's two hundred and twenty five yards, and so you know, these kids, 553 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,280 that's what they're trying to do. It's just it's insane. I think 554 00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:22,400 that the broadcasters of golf, some of them, not all of them, 555 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,840 but some of them, have hurt the game so much because, first of 556 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:29,239 all, we don't get the ball that the pros play with. Believe me 557 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,960 when I tell you that that ball is custom made to their swing. So 558 00:40:32,519 --> 00:40:36,800 they they got a hot ball, and that's why. That's why a guy 559 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:42,760 like you got the one of the masters and he's got eight are out and 560 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,159 he's hit close to two hundred yards. Come on, I mean, yeah, 561 00:40:46,199 --> 00:40:51,440 it serves you. Come on, that's not possible unless that club is 562 00:40:51,519 --> 00:40:55,239 jacked up or the ball jacked up. Interesting, and that's that's the that's 563 00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:59,480 the reality of it. I mean, it's these guys aren't These guys aren't 564 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,440 any strong than Ben Holdenner guys like that. But but the ball and the 565 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,880 club they're using is is they're they're juiced up, no question about it. 566 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,559 Yeah. Well, yeah, they seem to be talking about spending a whole 567 00:41:12,559 --> 00:41:16,599 lot more time talking about distance and how they boom it and not the wizardry 568 00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:21,480 of the short game. And I think that that these you know, since 569 00:41:21,679 --> 00:41:25,400 the Tiger effect has come in and courses have gotten longer and longer and longer, 570 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,519 they're playing into you know, by making the courses longer, just playing 571 00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:34,920 into their hands, make it tougher on the short game, and let's see 572 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,440 what they can do with it. Sure. Sure, I mean when they 573 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:45,440 play some of these real tough courses in the New York area and the Midwest, 574 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:47,480 they don't tear them up. You don't see twenty underpower or any of 575 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:52,199 that time. But they set the golf the golf courses are set up for 576 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,599 scoring. They get in there and they cross cut those fairways. The fairways 577 00:41:55,639 --> 00:42:00,000 are faster than some of the greens that the guys in the thirties and forties 578 00:42:00,039 --> 00:42:02,760 and fifties played on, and they just get make the golf course fast. 579 00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:07,760 And it's great for television because there's the zillion birdies and so forth. But 580 00:42:07,119 --> 00:42:10,119 what they've done is they've taken the shot making out of the game. Even 581 00:42:10,159 --> 00:42:14,079 the ball. You know, it's hard to move the ball left to right 582 00:42:14,119 --> 00:42:20,199 or right to left now purposely, I should say. And so you know 583 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,800 it's a shame. I think it's a shame in a way because they've made 584 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:30,559 a lot of great golf courses that were tremendous courses to play, and they've 585 00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:36,079 kind of made them obsolete because of what they've done with the equipment. Well, 586 00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:38,880 and the other thing that kind of makes me crazy is there customize these 587 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:45,400 courses for a tournament that may happen once a year at best, or once 588 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:50,320 every five or six years, and so that means they're customizing the course for 589 00:42:50,679 --> 00:42:53,760 point one of the amount of golfers that are going to play that course, 590 00:42:54,159 --> 00:42:59,880 but it gets TV exposure. That's one of the things that irritates me more. 591 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,239 You know, I have a lot of clients that belong to very posh 592 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,000 golf courses and these courses are all everyone's looking to get more members. So 593 00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:10,280 what do they do, Well, we've got to get a younger group. 594 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,960 And you know that the membership's three or four hundred thousand dollars. Not too 595 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,360 many young people that have that kind of money to throw around, but that's 596 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,440 what they get in their heads. So now they put a set up what 597 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,239 they call the championship teas and they're so far back on the whole. The 598 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,000 average guy out there is in the late sixties and the early seventies and they 599 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,159 can't hit it out of their shadow. So what are they doing, you 600 00:43:35,199 --> 00:43:39,199 know, instead of setting up teas that for your membership, if you got 601 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:44,719 a lot of guys that are seventy, you're up teas, and especially the 602 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:51,159 ladies sees should should correspond to the distance that they those people hit the ball 603 00:43:51,559 --> 00:43:53,800 so that they're in the game. You know, many years ago I did 604 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,599 the Mixed Team Championship, and when we were figuring this thing out, we 605 00:43:58,639 --> 00:44:02,960 went we looked at the two averages of ladies and men, and the ladies 606 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,800 needed a seventy five yard advantage off the tee because we had to take in 607 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,159 consideration the second shot, not just the first shot, of course, So 608 00:44:12,519 --> 00:44:15,960 if man, if the average guy hit it a drive and eight iron, 609 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,280 we wanted the same for the gals. You can't get it exact, but 610 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,239 we wanted to be close. You go on golf courses today and you'll see 611 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,840 the men's tees and you see the ladies sees maybe ten, fifteen, y, 612 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,360 maybe twenty years forward. That's just insane. Now you've got these gals 613 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:35,480 out there, they're beating driver three wood with no chance of getting here, 614 00:44:35,679 --> 00:44:37,880 and they're hitting five round on the third shot on the par four. That 615 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,360 takes the fun out of the game. It is an unfair challenge. It's 616 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,519 an unfair challenge. Well, I think that was the whole point of play 617 00:44:45,519 --> 00:44:49,960 it forward, right, exactly. If you want to give people back into 618 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,719 the game, they've got to be able to. I'm not saying make the 619 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:58,920 golf courses easy. I'm just saying make them fair for the person that's playing. 620 00:45:00,039 --> 00:45:01,400 You can't do it exact, but you can do a lot better job 621 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,280 that's being done. I can tell you that. And if and if Joe 622 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,760 Blower his wife can every now and then get in the low eighties and and 623 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:14,920 hit the green in regulation changes everything in their mindset. But if it's if 624 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,519 they're out there and they're shooting in the hundreds and it's arduous, they're not 625 00:45:17,559 --> 00:45:21,320 going to want to do this all the time. No, So it just 626 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,519 takes it deflaates everybody. You know, we all have an ego. Yeah, 627 00:45:24,559 --> 00:45:28,360 and let's not even call them the ladies teath Let's just call them the 628 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:34,000 forward teas right forward. Sure, you know it's like I don't. I 629 00:45:34,039 --> 00:45:37,840 don't like like I'm usually the long driver when when I'm playing with my group, 630 00:45:38,039 --> 00:45:42,000 but that doesn't mean I'm scoring better than anybody else. I can hit 631 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,280 the ball farther, but not with my irons as much. And I think 632 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,880 the whole point of playing forward is that, like the pros, you should 633 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:57,320 have an eight iron or less for your second shot, So absolutely move it 634 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,840 up. Let's just say a short hitter. Okay, so a short hitter, 635 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:06,840 you should probably be hitting a drive and maybe a five iron rescue club 636 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,320 or a six iron rescue club. But when you can't reach the green in 637 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,000 two on any part four, then you're hitting too far back that the tea 638 00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:19,519 isn't right for you. You've got to move up. And the golf courses, 639 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,639 they talk about it all the time, but no one really scientifically goes 640 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,880 on that golf course and measure the golf course out and then charts. Okay, 641 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,679 this is where mister and missus Jones are going to hit the golf ball 642 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:37,880 and then intelligently put team teas down and make those teas not after thoughts, 643 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:43,880 make them actually a teen ground for mister and missus Jones, And I promise 644 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,480 you if they would do that, you'd see more people smiling when they came 645 00:46:47,519 --> 00:46:52,719 off the golf course instead of frustrating or just feeling like I'm old. I 646 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,639 know in my own case, I was a very long hitter of the golf 647 00:46:54,679 --> 00:46:58,840 ball and not a big guy, but I always could really clock it. 648 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:04,920 Now that I'm eight zero, which I can't believe, but I am, 649 00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:07,400 I can't hit it that anymore. So you know, my best drive is 650 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:14,199 two thirty two forty sometimes. Wow, that's still pretty good. I still 651 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,199 hit it out there pretty good for an old guy. But still, you 652 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,639 know, when I go on and play with my students, you know, 653 00:47:21,679 --> 00:47:23,039 I feel like I should put a tap of a dress on or something, 654 00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:28,880 because they're popping at fifty sixty seventy yards past me with no problem. Yeah, 655 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:34,320 the age of their great grandfather exactly. So if I can't, I 656 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,519 can't compete with that because they're longer with their iron, they're longer with their 657 00:47:37,559 --> 00:47:42,719 would come on. So I have to play up, and there's nothing wrong 658 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,199 with that. For God's I mean, that's that's what I'm saying. Instead 659 00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:51,079 of building championship teams to bring more people at your golf course. Set your 660 00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:54,199 golf course up so people can play it. It's still a challenge. But 661 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,840 if you have a good day, you get a good score. For some 662 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,320 people, even when they have a good day, get a good score because 663 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:06,280 of the distance factor. You know, it's very It really is obsessed me, 664 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:13,599 especially for the gals. They honestly, I think they're no one wants 665 00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:16,599 to see it, but they're kind of an afterthought when they come to the 666 00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:21,079 designing of the golf course or the placing of the teas and silver. They're 667 00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:28,360 just an afterthought. It's it's wrong, It really is. Yeah. I 668 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,159 had a thought, No, I lost it. I was gonna say something 669 00:48:30,159 --> 00:48:34,320 about, well, we were talking about you know it's me I get on 670 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:38,119 tangents. Oh we both do, don't we both? Well? Oh no, 671 00:48:38,159 --> 00:48:40,519 I remember. What I was going to say is that how many times 672 00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:45,280 I've played with gentlemen who are in their seventies who can't hit the ball more 673 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:50,159 than one hundred and fifty yards except they're playing bogie golf because they hit it 674 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,840 dead straight and they can put you know, So it's not about the big 675 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:57,280 war's just keep it in the fairway and getting the close, there's no question 676 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,880 about it. But those people too play a lot of golf and either they're 677 00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:05,480 blessed or they practice the short game a lot. But I mean, the 678 00:49:05,519 --> 00:49:09,360 average lady and man don't put that much time into practice. They'll take a 679 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:15,800 lesson here or there. I'm just I'm an advocate of of It isn't so 680 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:21,480 much a play up, but to set the golf course up to accommodate what 681 00:49:21,519 --> 00:49:27,440 your general membership is, not the the one guy that calks it or not 682 00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:30,079 the one guy that can hit it one hundred yards, but that middle range 683 00:49:30,079 --> 00:49:36,000 group, and you'd make your golf course make everybody happier. Yeah, And 684 00:49:36,199 --> 00:49:40,719 unfortunately, unfortunately, the way they set the tour up, it's the opposite 685 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:45,360 of that. It's all it's all predicated on distance. Yeah, you know 686 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:50,800 what, Tony, we have so many more clubs that I'd like to cover 687 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,559 about, you know, taking that to the next level, like the sand 688 00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:57,960 wedge, your long irons, your hybrids, your fairway drivers or fairway medals 689 00:49:58,039 --> 00:50:00,360 or fairway woods, whatever you want to call them. And you're driver. 690 00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:04,599 So can we do as we have done many times? Can we do part 691 00:50:04,639 --> 00:50:09,760 two of this for next week's episode? Sure? I'd love to. Uh, 692 00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:14,440 you got to put a module on me at times, because no, 693 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,559 no, instead of the muzzle, I'm just gonna let you go longer. 694 00:50:17,039 --> 00:50:22,519 We're just gonna go on longer. That's all all right. So that's great. 695 00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:25,079 We're gonna do part two on this and continue this conversation of how you 696 00:50:25,119 --> 00:50:29,440 can take your game to the next level, one club at a time with 697 00:50:29,519 --> 00:50:34,480 Tony Manzoni. Tony, thanks so much for your cooperation on this. It's 698 00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:35,440 always my pleasure.