Good morning, Mother? Good morning male sphere of the Board. Welcome to
a new episode of the Good morning podcast Mother Wait You know that in each
episode we try to approach you themes, people, projects, initiatives, books
that may interest you, can help you, can entertain you in this intense
and so beautiful and intense task. Yes, let' s say intense with
all its nuances, which is parenting and education. And today we are going
to bring you a theme, a theme and above all, now that you
look at what time we are just passing the exams. There are people who
are still going through it. Final exams. The extraordinary ones are coming,
the repetitions are coming that have stayed for June for July and it is a
topic that can worry us families very much when they go forward according to how
old our sons, our daughters. Today we' re going to talk about
how we study, how we learn. And that moment so feared that it
is in which we remain blank and blank is precisely what is called the book
that we are dealing with today and that has written Juan Fernández, who has
already been here with us, since I welcome him again, Juan, how
you are hello. Good morning, Obanica you forgot to say that the prologue
is very good, that writing them is very good. I didn' t
remember that. I don' t know. I don' t know whose
it' s from? I don' t know whose it' s from?
I don' t know that since readers look at it, right and
you find out. Juan Fernández, professor, you were with us a couple
of years ago with your first book, precisely talking about education, about educating
in complexity, more specifically devoting yourself to the part of parenting more related to
the world, parenting, motherhood from a slightly more generic approach. And we
take up the writing chapter with you again, because you come with this new
book to see if it comes closer, to see if I get it here
blank, how to focus the attention, memory and motivation to learn published by
current platform and that it is a guide for teaching families, opponents and apprentices
of all kinds to optimize their effort. And yes, indeed, the prologue
is bio. He tells me it' s the last thing you can leave,
because the book is a jewel. Friends. This is the first thing
I have to say, and not because I' ve read it many times,
which is true, because I' ve read it a lot of times,
but it' s really very useful and it' s very good.
Juan Congratulations, well, thank you very much. The idea was that.
Let' s get people reading it and finding out that they can learn to
learn, that they can become more and more apprentice and also, especially thinking
about that in moms and dads who often have those concerns. No and how
we can help to study with very concrete clues and also with a general framework,
because, to infect that mentality that you can always do things to learn
that you are not born knowing how to learn or that you are not good
at learning or bad from the beginning and you can no longer do anything.
Many things can be done, which is a little of what the book is
about, of what things you can do, especially to improve on that task
that lasts a lifetime. Actually and also, you tell us from your teaching
perspective, but also as a student, because you continue to study, you
continue to train, you are doing a PhD in psychology. Yeah, with
the credit that' s got that at this point in our lives, yeah
with family cons so rusty like that and that' s why it' s
so interesting and it seems to me that you write it from a place that
maybe has removed you a lot, not to say that and if I'
m not studying so much invested time and if I' m not doing it.
Good. Yes, that' s when I look at my student life,
because I do think I missed it, because that' s the reflection
we talked about at the beginning and that' s why I saw myself as
encouraged to write this book. Not because I was a good student and I
or another time I was a very bad student. So, for me,
of course, it' s not something continuous, there' s no continuity.
But I, as I live with a lot of people who live themselves
as bad or good students, as if it were something fixed and stable and
going over that personal story of mine. Well, of course, I thought
it would have been nice to read, that there was something that would have
done me, to think that it would have provoked me a little bit to
change my habits or to think that I was doing wrong As for the schedules,
the habits, a little, what is, like the most everyday thing,
I think the day- to- day is super important, super important.
And then, there, I talk a lot about habits. Throughout the
whole book. There are like a kind of habits that are often ways of
doing and sometimes are ways of thinking, because I think there are like habits
of action and then there are habits of thinking. Then he' s on
both tracks. So, well, I propose some ideas that are things you
can do to organize yourself, not to distract yourself, and then there are
other proposals that are more dedicated to thinking habits, to thinking in voice.
Lack of starting to rely a little on different strategies like that thought, and
I think that' s what I lacked in my time of failure, those
thinking habits, like standing up and saying to see this thing that you'
re doing doesn' t work, stop doing it and look for alternative ways
to do it, because if you keep doing the same thing, it'
s likely to be the same And in the end, that really affected my
self- esteem and my own experience as a student and as I see it
in other people, because it was also like launching that reflection and saying hopefully
this will help you, as it has helped me later and after many years.
Hey, and considering that this is so common, this is what you
' re commenting on later, every listener will move him into his personal experience.
But I am convinced that each one of us has lived that one way
or another. No, because it is very common how it is possible that
there is no more awareness that we are not taught to study or not taught
or teachers do not know if you are trained in this. No, because
in general it' s not true that in elementary school. Yeah, in
elementary school, you have an infantile, primary career. So, but look,
I' m also a parent of elementary school kids and I think it
' s very important that during primary school they' re forming as their own
vision of themselves as students. I find it super interesting and it seems to
me that we should be much more careful, because they end up childish and
which is a phenomenal place where they have fun and in primary they start to
have experiences that sometimes they don' t do well and many times that takes
them. The idea is that this is not good for me, is that
of course I live it at home too jo and there are these subjects that
cost me a lot and there are like the beginnings of what can then happen
in high school. No blocks, no stories, and it' s very
important. I' m telling you how to rework verbally. I think that
' s very important. It' s like good, but what exactly happened
to you, because you' ve lost your mind. Well, let'
s see why you' ve lost your mind, because you' re out
of your mind. Because, well, we can try to keep this from
happening the next time or, uh, not happening and so maybe. If
you don' t get rid of this one the next time you do it
better, it' s not going to be magic, you' re not
going to make it perfect, but it' s okay. Let' s
see what' s distracting you. Try to change it Talk to the teacher
or the teacher and see if the next time we do it a little better.
It' s not like this idea of cause effects. Things have a
cause of effect, because sometimes the sense of uncontrollability that children have is very
strong. It' s how I got a good tutor, because everything'
s going to be great. I got a bad tutor. I can'
t do anything anymore. I' m not doing anything anymore. I can
' t do anything. And uncontrol is the most discouraging thing there is,
because it' s impossible to be motivated by something you feel you have no
capacity for action. If you think something is like this and it' s
never going to change, because that doesn' t motivate you to do anything.
So that verbal reworking is the first step to get motivated and to start
to have those habits of action that I told you or the habits of thought
lead to the habits of action, we take measures and then we collect the
results, always with a mondosa look and with a perspective already clear. You
talk about motivation as if it came up and besides this, you talk in
the book and there' s also a lot. Whenever you talk about motivation,
there' s how there' s a cloud of murmurs. We do
not motivate ourselves, we are motivated by others. We have to motivate our
children. We do not motivate them, because if we motivate them too much,
that is already the case. Yeah, there' s a middle ground.
Motivation is born, it grows to reproduce to see what in motivation,
to learning really has like two ideas that for me have helped a lot to
simplify like two legs. The first is that there is no intrinsic motivation or
trisite, as if it were day or night. In the background there is
a whirlwind, there are things, then it is important to live in that
balance and that motivation, the hysterical motivations, that is, the motivations of
the outside, always become regulatory. No, the important thing is not that
it is intrinsic stringsec, but that regulation is increasingly internal. I mean,
I can say or you, for example, that you' re holding all
this talk for me, because say look, I do it and then,
because I' m going to give a prize, I' m not going
to buy a crossan, but you manage. Basically, that is an internal
regulation. Butma would say good, because you' re doing this, because
then I' ll give you cros for interviewing me. So the important thing
is that regulation is internal, and that' s why those good talks are
important. That' s like your management, your frustration, your own resources,
your way of rewarding you in a constructive way. Listen, what do
you want to do good one thing that you want to do not be very
beast, because that is very important. And the second idea of motivation is
that motivation is almost always a consequence of achievement. I mean, it'
s really hard to get motivated for something you haven' t gotten. That
is why we teachers should ensure very high, very high initial success rates always
to build. From there motivation is always oriented towards actions. It' s
a motivation to focus energy on a goal, because we think we can achieve
that goal. If we think we' ll never be able to achieve that
goal, it' s impossible. Then of course, I talk a lot
about targets. These are the targets. I develop it a lot in the
book, because if my goals are super distant, I see them more unattainable.
A very good way to increase motivation is to set goals that are more
affordable and closer, so that we can verify that we are achieving what we
have set out to do and encourage this belief, this habit of thinking,
as I say that we really, effectively, may not be where we are
yet in the end, but we are on the road to that goal.
So we are moving because we follow the path of that objective and sometimes clear
if the objective places in September, for example, by setting a practical example,
the objective is to approve mathematics, because that is a very little motivating
objective, because in the background buvte to, namely, until June or sometimes
what happens. No, because the aim is to approve all of them,
from September to June. It' s just that it' s really hard
to get motivated. That' s why you have to gradually set more affordable
goals than, in addition, by getting them, because it allows you to
say hey look at this I' m getting it. Then we would help
a lot if we didn' t set ourselves those goals, sometimes so great
and go a little more looking for close goals that are affordable and that we
can all feel like we' re going there. Of course, what happens
here is that it would imply that we all had the same goal as from
school and from the family and from the moon to the moon we agreed,
we all had the same goal that you usually give us. That' s
why it' s important to transmit, and that' s why the book
is written in a broad language, because ideally we should all share the goal
that the goal is learning, because something else that isn' t the same
happens here again. Motivate to get something, to motivate yourself to avoid something?
Motivating to avoid something is often very bad. Yeah, why are you
going to this meeting? I' m going because I want to be and
I want to learn why you' re going to this meeting? I'
m going so I don' t get fired by defensive motivation. No,
or why you did this. I don' t do this so they don
' t put a negative on me, so they don' t punish me,
so they don' t laugh at me. That, too, is
very unmotivating. Our goals do not have to be to try to avoid circumstances,
which have to be objectives of achieving things and we should share, at
least the objective of learning, that in the end we are learning, regardless
of other things that are then bureaucracy or certification or good, the system itself.
But let us at least share this objective. I mean, the important
thing is that people learn at any formative stage of their life and of course,
as sometimes you' re going to meet people who aren' t going
to do that you have to go internalizing that' s what your goals are.
You have to ask yourself that question, how much earlier you get used
to asking yourself that question better, because then you' re clear, despite
what they tell you outside. That' s another thing I' m looking
at doing the PhD. This I sometimes say what I do, what I
' m doing. Good times very good question what I' m doing.
But that question is very important because of course now I am living it in
another way, because deep down, my goal is exclusively to learn. I
don' t do it for anything, I mean, I don' t
do it either because I have the title or for later, I don'
t do anything but learn. It' s true that everything is like looking
at life with different glasses. I say I' m glad because I'
ve been to another PhD program before, when before I started teaching, I
was in the research world and clearly the goal was not to get kicked out,
I mean, the goal was to get funding so that it doesn'
t stain and clear change the whole film. I' ve been to the
congresses for seminars. It has nothing to do with it because deep down,
my entire attention is devoted to learning, while other times my attention is in
this. But at the same time remember that you have to fill this out,
because if you don' t do this, the other thing happens.
Not then, the more we clarify in that sense as well, the more
all the people around a boy or a better girl, because if there is
not a little bit of objective then the BICI and the holidays, the suspense,
the punishment and then what a mess I have to declare myself among hundreds
objectives, of course, it is true, and everyone has entered this game,
all in this game. Yeah, yeah. And then, in addition,
the goal agrees that, for example, you were talking about institutions how
that learning is corrected or how it is shown that what you have learned is
or that you have learned something that implies that evaluation is well done and that
it really conforms to what has been taught and what you should know. Sure.
Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, I' ve written two solo
books and then I' ve written another one with work area on formative evaluation.
Sure, of course it is, but because deep down, when you
talk about evaluation, you talk a lot about motivation. And so in elementary
school, for example, what do you need to write notes? To be
clear, what need do you have to put notes on? Yeah, be
a first grader, who' s five or six years old, you'
re getting a note and everything' s focused on the note, you'
re getting used to it going to work in a certainly behavioral way. I
mean, a six- year- old needs notes, not the notes for
who they' re for his parents. Then we enter into a game that
clearly, when it arrives secondary, because it is already fully rooted and we
also do other things wrong in secondary, of course. Eh, but of
course there part of all this to the extent that we can act, because
in those conversations, no, because it' s important not to be me,
if I see my son playing the flute and see him practice more than
in the second trimester, for me something changes that puts him a five a
seven on the flute. It hasn' t been a nightmare to listen to
him the same way, yes, but not now seriously, but they won
' t change five a seven. So what am I going to do to
look at the number that gives him frustration because it is a five instead of
a seven, or to notice what, instead of rehearsing twice in the whole
quarter, because from time to time he took the flute and practiced, because
it is already if it is that what you want, since you get used
to it or that you do not live as a horror, because at home
to take five minutes, to play the score and that' s it.
Because deep down, that' s the habit and that' s it,
no, no, you already see that what interests you, what you try
to improve, what you think about what does wrong. Of course, that
is also very important, because you are sowing for the future. That'
s it. I think that too. Sometimes we put the focus on processes
and I, as a system, should put the processes into effect. Well,
if you' re there, you' re getting more autonomous. You
notice, you realize when you play a bad note or so it' s
done. You don' t have to go crazy either. No, it
doesn' t have to be Vivaldi playing the first and last flute. No.
But, well, what' s the point, because maybe practical from
time to time, I know the same and why do you do it?
You do it because I care, or you do it because you care?
And why do you care? Because good, because you want to do it
right. That' s very good. That' s very good to want
to do it right. That' s very good, so come on,
let' s practice, but not because they' re going to give you
more notes, but because of your desire. It' s good, so
do it right. Or then you know that' s gonna lead you to
be told that you' ve done better than to be congratulated. I say
regulation always as internalizing. It' s not at least. These talks go
like the surface of motivation, which I think is sometimes not what you said
where we move. Sometimes to motivate him we' re going to give him
prizes, to motivate him we' re going to do punishments, we'
re going to put him a day and we' re going to put a
zero to a deeper thing, which has to see what your goal is,
why you do it, because this is important to you, what it tells
you yourself and things like that. And well, that' s an example.
Evidently, language or conversation cannot go the same way with a second grader
as with an opponent. But the opponent also needs to ask himself those questions,
because if he' s not going to be able to study a topic
six months, why do you do it. Because this is important, apart
from practical things dedicated to study techniques. But it seems to me that part
does, that there are other books that develop it very well. So I
have left a central part of the book which is like a kind of good
This is important and we are going to devote time to it, but above
all I develop more habits of attention and motivational habits, because it seemed to
me that this is where there may be more confusion in general about what exactly
that means. It is true that, in addition, you approach it with
a lot of study base, scientific basis. There is much work done on
this subject, although to families in many cases, for these things hear many.
If you don' t do this, then you don' t have
to know. It' s not something that you' re interested in specifically
this topic, but it' s true that there' s science about it,
not and that' s being studied. How you study, that is,
how you study, how you study, how you do not, how
you learn and, for example, on the subject of attention now you are
talking a lot, Juan, because it seems that we have a Houston problem
with attention and that I, on a particular personal level, experiment too,
that is, yes, yes, I also think it is something that is
totally protected. Yeah, yeah, and that show' s already a first
idea. No. I think you don' t have to panic with the
attention of the children, because the problem is really global. Yes, I
have the luck or the experience, but not for me is the luck of
being able, for example, to go out sometimes to the theater. You
don' t have class groups and or or or or or general. I
notice and see it is obvious that they look at the mobile are distracted,
but I don' t think that more than adults and what the studies tell
us about attention is that our attention capacity is as encoded in the way it
has to function our brain and that our brain doesn' t change for a
hundred years. It doesn' t change biologically, it' s very difficult
to change a kind of a hundred years. Keep changing the environment. Evidently,
the environment can be more or less distractive. And the good news is
that, like your internal wiring, it doesn' t change, but what
changes is the environment. You have acting power over the environment. Then you
can make less distracting environments and where they help focus, and you can make
environments where there is a trend or as a ramp, like a rung slide
from your brain, slide smoothly into total distraction. So, that' s
why, also in the book he develops some techniques that are basic to order
to leave the mobile always in a place and my idea always puts it to
charge, for example, in a place where you don' t go to
study, where you know that, well, so that it has battery is
there. It uses the airplane mode that the devices themselves often have ways to
manage how it can be in airplane mode to play with notifications. I get
deleted when I need to concentrate I delete the Twitter apps and so on and
I get them not to remember my password, that is, to put on
the hard stuff. It' s true you' re not the same fan.
Yeah, I' m going to count because it' s the way
to generate environments. I can' t affect it. I can' t
affect that. But if I have to say look in two hundred days,
I have to finish. I have to write so much, because if I
don' t get there and those two days. The first thing you do
is delete the app and this is really true. I delete the Twitter app.
I get into the softwarrimes device. If I say delete it, it
' s all over and don' t remember it, my mother, because
deep down I have to type Twitter and say my queue was my password and
I don' t remember. I have to look it up on the keychain
this is passwords, well, but that' s what we all do,
so you' ll just have to think it through, I mean, no.
But yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree, with you, that
it' s an exercise like in the book there' s a phrase I
read, I don' t remember who. But the people who seem to
have the most willpower are the ones who use it the least. It'
s true. It' s because he has the strength to make it difficult
for him and then he says mara, pass, already, this is complicated,
that and I go around, but not now he arrives at the end
of course, for example, and I and I would be eating chocolate or
cookies, all the time, because if I don' t buy them there
isn' t. Well, that' s why. Many times we act
as an automatic pilot, and especially since it is the children, the teenagers,
when we are stressed, when the opposition exam is already that you stress,
is that it is normal and when you stress your brain will work by
automatisms, because it is the way it has to deal with the stress to
go to the known thing and at least, the most comfortable thing is to
run the automatic pilot. Then you like it all to be that way.
You don' t spend time thinking about superficial things, because get ready because
when that time comes, as you' ve prepared, the terrain is going
to make it easier or harder for you to manage your attention, which in
the end is the topic. For me, the issue is managing attention.
Attention is a resource to be managed. And the more you manage your attention
and don' t depend on external management, the better you get used to
managing your attention, because your attention is like good, like a jug of
o. This is the example I set then. If you have twenty plants
to water at home, you have the pitcher, if you have one plant,
you have the pitcher. You will see, if it is winter and
summer, if it is an orchid, if it is not you can live
the attention as something spontaneous, that that is also another of the mistakes that
I made very frequently as something spontaneous that is born to me. I'
m born to watch, I' m born to be distracted. It depends
on a lot of things that you have a certain ability to act on.
Take advantage of that certain acting ability to make it easy for you to attend.
It seems to me to be an exciting subject, but we barely reflected
on it. John, I mean, it' s funny, but we
all have a certain amount of intellectual activity, at least basic education. No,
yes, how many opportunities we have to reflect on how we learn.
It' s just that there isn' t. We don' t have
that habit. In families there is no talk about how you study, how
you do it as beyond the physical approach. But if we base ourselves on
what we said before the note and the result and maybe also more or less,
how the children wear it, if they look good or they look bad
with the result and depending on whether they suffer or not, then, if
there the alarms jump, no, but if it' s not like we
give it, like it comes naturally, like it' s coming. Sure,
yeah, yeah, sure is true. And that' s where if
you ask me, I think that teachers, especially those who haven' t
received specific previous training, should be trained because the problems we manage are supposed
to depend on your professional ability being able to solve problems. What are the
problems you find, because there are kids who don' t understand mitosis.
I' m kids who don' t understand evolution, or what. But
there are other underlying, cross- cutting problems about which we have to read
a lot and that' s why I also propose the book. And there
you read yourself for teachers. Looks like it' s like everybody else reading
my book, please, everybody. But yes, but good. But it
' s because if this is read by a teacher, even if he doesn
' t have children or doesn' t have children, it' s going
to work for him. I believe, I humbly believe. I think it
might do him good because deep down there are things that I see in class
that can happen to him, that maybe not, but what can happen,
and that it' s okay to have these clues and then go working on
these things in class, because if it' s not what you say we
should work explicitly how we learn in class, because it would help a lot,
especially that to make people feel more, because that' s like having
the ability to make decisions, not that it doesn' t seem natural.
To me that' s like the leit motive of the whole book is that.
This can' t be a natural thing for you, because then,
if you' re lucky, you' re going to do very well,
but if you' re not lucky, you' re going to have a
good time. Then no. No, this is not a natural thing.
I' m telling you, I' ve gone better and worse in various
fields. This isn' t natural. You can do actions that change a
little bit, that I always say a little or enough, of course,
of external factors, that is, and you have your own talents, you
have a family partner context, that that' s very important and you can
' t write a book of these happy Landia control to your life either.
I totally don' t believe in that at all, but there is a
margin. I do think there is a margin, because let us take advantage
of that margin because, perhaps, the margin is the difference between success and
failure. Then that margin there are things to do. It does seem to
me that everyone should read it, because I insist, that is, from
your own experience, when it comes to facing a study, an opposition,
an exam, a learning of any kind. It invites you to reflect in
a way that we have never done before and that is true and helps you
understand better. How your brain works the time to learn and how you work
How you behave and how you can then transfer it to your children, how
you can help them understand that they don' t like anything, what they
have to do, that those who have to do by obligation are obliged.
Yeah, yeah, because there' s no such thing as you and I
studying because we like it at this point in life. We don' t
need anyone to tell us Juan go to class, we like him. We
already have that earned, but our sons, our daughters and our students at
all have that and clear is to face that with a base like your book,
which also tells it in a very simple way for people who with a
basic knowledge, even the part of the most sensitive, denser knowledge, you
explain it in a very simple way that I also love. No. This
is about the units of knowledge that we learn on the basis of units of
knowledge and not on the basis of everything that besides I' ll tell you
that relaxes also no yes, it' s true that you' re going
to put all that in. No, I' m not going to go
unit to a bandage and it' s going better, it' s going
better, and that' s why I recommend it to our entire audience.
Whether you have or not, have sons and daughters, have students be more,
mayan, older, less, even for yourself, as an act of
reflection and self- learning, because in the end, how you concentrate on
something is also how you are and how it is one more way in which
you are. Yes, it' s true, and we each do it
in a different way. Not you carry that implicit suffering of taking away the
password that I will never do. I mean, I took off my Willy
Juan Ah. Well, look, I' m right there That' s
radical, not that. Besides, my friend Melisa, your 20- minute
journalist, told me that to write her books, she would take the WiFi
off the Chinon computer and Mira you don' t have to go through the
ordeal of taking away the consan that. Okay. I, moreover, could
not study thinking that I am not going to recover that other matería that we
are different, but I did want to thank you for the effort and to
bring all this process, this knowledge and this reflection to all the public and
especially, to the families, because I think it can help the creatures a
lot. Well, I hope so I thank you very much for the words
the truth, but I already tell you that that' s why I think
of a broad audience, because it seems to me that if this goes only
for teachers, it stays lame and if it' s just for families,
I also probably know that lame, because we need to better understand the nuances
of all these issues there is in the part of memory. There' s
an idea that I really like, which has to do with what you'
re talking about, which is called desirable difficulties. Desirable difficulties, that is,
of course you have to make it difficult, but in a way,
in a constructive way, ay clear and then clear if what they are asking
you for is recognition. I mean, I mean to recite things, and
what they ask of you is to recite clearly. Evidently, the best way
to study is to put everything in it like a funnel and regurgitate it at
the hour. But they' re not asking you for that and in the
long run. Besides, what you want is to retain and be able to
use the things you' ve learned. That strategy is not the best.
The thing is, he doesn' t want to. Say it' s
not hard for you. At first, you don' t just have to
focus on performance, nor should teachers just focus on performance, because short-
term performance isn' t always an indicator of learning. Rather, sometimes it
' s just the opposite. We have to go to process, of course
that' s what I was talking about before. So there are times that
because in the book I say there are times that you will get bored,
but look at the people that have studied, the footballers, the professional violinists,
the most creative professionals that you can imagine, the artists, the chefs
these, not all those people that have studied how everyone works, those people
that have the most creative work you can imagine, says that there is a
part that is boring, a part of practice that is boring. Then of
course. That' s why the important thing is how to arm yourself,
to have weapons to be able to withstand that plain of boredom, which is
normal in anything complex, that you do, to be able to come to
a time when you say oysters that I' m going alone and I'
m starting to handle myself. Anyone who has learned to play an instrument,
for example, knows what I' m talking about, because there' s
a part where that' s like running over a cat, killing a cat,
and then you have to put up with that barrier, because it'
s probably the same with math or equations. There is not a phase in
which you have to practice and that is why you have to arm yourself with
motivational strategies in order to survive that part and reach the phase in which you
have finally consolidated the part, you have automated some parts, you have become
procedures. A complex idea and by turning it into procedures, is like a
scaffolding that you have put on to keep learning and continue ascending and of course,
you reach higher levels with some tranquility, because the scaffolds are well placed.
And that reflection is also sometimes important that sometimes it seems that it is
not productive in the short term, but that we must look at the long
term, in the medium term, how this can help us in the long
run to learn new things, to integrate it and to go about overcoming that
first barrier that is sometimes difficult and suffering. I' m remembering when you
said it for example, when you run and go for a run and the
first few minutes are hateful and you want to leave it alone, you want
to leave you, you want to stop until you already pass that barrier of
extreme suffering and suddenly, everyone finds it in a way and in writing,
also in writing it takes them a lot to enter that moment in which things
flow and suffer. You suffer, you suffer a lot than people who think
it is not that the creative moment has come to you and what happiness.
And of course, then you have to talk to the writers. And the
example you set of running seems very good to me, because you go out
for a run to enjoy, but not all the time you' re enjoying
it. So, to enjoy running you have to somehow practice yes, not
have converted procedures, have somehow rutinized a beginning that allows you to get to
that point of enjoyment Let' s say the sooner or get to that point
of enjoying at some point. Sure at first, of course there are people
who put on podcasts, there are people who put on music. I,
for example, put on music. So I try to put on something that
I like a lot and that' s how that happened before and then I
already get a little bit more the same, but that' s what everyone
has tried or taken a route that you like a lot, so whether it
' s the one you start with or not. It costs up, for
example, those tricks that you also mention in book, because those tricks that
are used, things that we do well, things that we do wrong,
such as the theme, for example, of the schemes that everyone pulls from
if if I' m going to make schematics, I' m going to
copy the notes. Oh, of course, but it' s not all
that good. It' s not that clear. Sure. Of course,
in the end, to learn, you have to think. So I say
it a lot and I think that for the book it seems that the unit
of measurement of the study is not the time, that is, the time
to study. I don' t know how to measure minutes or hours.
That' s what you' ve noticed, Juan, because you can spend
an hour thinking about nothing or you can be 20 minutes focused. It happens
a bit the same with the idea of writing notes clean. It' s
just writing one thing a thousand times I' m gonna find out and it
doesn' t happen. You can write a thing a thousand times in autopilot,
without thinking about what you' re writing and not knowing anything. So
there are times that we do, we have reused, there are routines that
are good, but there are other times that we have used things that don
' t work and we haven' t stopped to think if that really meets
the goal. That' s why it' s important and the book starts
with the goals, because all the time you have to be remembering what the
goal is and if your goal was, as you say, if your goal
was to run for so many minutes or run a marathon that usually is to
participate the wild or races. That' s how it' s usually a
visual target. Yeah, yeah, yeah, not total. People often put
it on, because that has to be your goal and you have to practice
based on that goal. You can' t tell me I' m gonna
do 20 sprint series. I' m gonna end up suffocating in the first
15 minutes and I' m not gonna be able to run anymore. If
you want to run ten kilometers at a pace, you' ll have to
practice this way. And so it happens that sometimes it' s good,
because I catch the solved exercises of mathematics and I copy them in the notebook,
because I don' t know you' re copying numbers that to what
extent it works, because you' ll have to think about it, because
what is the goal of this that you' re doing? And sometimes it
seems like the goal is to cover the file and stay calm. And sometimes
many times you realize that people who use the clean- up thing, do
schematics. Deep down, he' s trying to gain security. This is
very interesting. It' s just that this gives me peace of mind,
because we' re going to reflect on that, because deep down, you
' re spending a lot of time for something that you realize doesn' t
help you learn either, but the only thing you do is that, like
you' ve always done, you' ve got it all cleaned up and
said I' m already calm. I say it calmly, because in general
it' s usually quiet. So, since everything is perfect, when everything
is, what could be published in a lettering book. In fact, I
remain calm, because the problem then is not and that is why it is
important to reflect. The problem is not so much whether you learn or not
to learn this, but what you need to feel prepared, to be able
to respond or to be able to perform an activity. Many times these activities
become as anchors and can serve. But of course, when the time comes
when you have twenty- seven zero note sheets that passed clean maybe, you
' ll get a lot of suffering, because they' ve become kind of
superstition. You' ve always studied like this and then you always have to
do the same. Then I just have to pass it all clean, because
it' s that if they haven' t become a superstation. If you
haven' t had it clean, but I haven' t studied it ink
people, how many people we know. So there is truth, is that
of course, in all generations there have always been six people who study with
the same music or examine you with the same bolling. What. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Then I realized it gave you the
same thing, but you hang on to things. Yes, yes, it
happened to me, for example, it seems to me. In addition,
he laughed a lot because I already liked how to open the book, to
have the book open, to finish the lebro de la biliote, to leave
it open and then, maybe he was playing with computer. But the book
was open there. It gave you and there was a feeling. But deep
down, yes, really, it gave that feeling that it evaporated into ideas
and I breathed them while playing other things. But deep down is what I
' m telling you about regulation. It' s not the feeling of if
I do this externally, I' ll pass and it doesn' t work
So, learning is internal regulation. He reminded me now he takes less,
but in a very good time when it took a lot to say that if
you put your notes on at night, you learned them by sleeping you remember.
That' s what happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got
sick of English, uh, I let myself see it, but it didn
' t get any better and I tried it. We' ve tried it.
I spore them on a waltman who I hope you know what I was,
and then there' s no audience. You don' t say.
I' d put them on a Waltman and but it' s but yes,
but deep down, that' s funny to us. But I'
m telling you, there' s a lot of people studying the same way.
Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean. I mean,
either I lie down in bed and then I' m there with seven blankets,
little guy in bed, with the flippers to see, maybe I'
m more. I mean. I don' t want to generate the feeling
that it never works, but in principle, to learn you have to be
active. No, then it' s better to go asking questions or solving
activities than just passing the leaves while you' re there lying down your father
for a wand of blankets. It' s so nice there. We'
re reading each other, but there' s a lot about this there'
s even a market, uh, of course, but basically, those people,
what you have to tell them is that if it doesn' t work,
it doesn' t work, but it reflects on whether that' s
the right way, and if it doesn' t, another idea would be
better. I, for example, for laughing at myself, because this really
has to be taken like this. But I was going to study at the
faculty and the faculty library was in the basement of a very tall building.
Then the boiler was about forty- five degrees. I was going to study
at school, I, who was hot by myself, sat down, started
sweating, I got a dream, and sometimes I fell asleep. But to
sleep that I think is snoring because and of course, but I went to
the library, because everyone went to the library and in the end I went
to study, I was not going to talk or anything. But how long
have I taken advantage of so many mornings in there that deep down I would
come back as if I hadn' t done anything. Things sounded to me,
it reminded me of the form of the pages, but I didn'
t understand anything, because I had to think to see that everyone does this.
But this is good for you. You' re serving this, maybe
not or maybe. You just have to find yourself another college on the coolest
campus and this other place where there' s more, because it was also
closed. I' m telling you, it was a basement. I remember
saying, trying to study and now I see it later and I say but
why I didn' t think of going to another is that it' s
as simple as why I didn' t think of going to another place to
study how many mornings of my life, of my best age, of the
flower of life, how many mornings I' ve spent, I' ve
supposedly got in to give me security or to stay calm, because deep down
I thought that maybe this was what, like everyone else, was good for
him and how many people would be there like me, without thinking clearly now
that I would be in another flower of life, because I think that the
flowers of life changes, but always one is the flower of life. This
helps me a lot and I, because there will be people who help him
write in this way that what you tell me, because I try it,
but I try it always asking myself if it really works and those habits is
what I talked about at first. That doesn' t seem to me to
be the fundamental thing, like leaving the autopilot and seeing that well, because
maybe my friends could use it or maybe not even they could serve them.
But this has to be considered. And now that, for example, it
comes from bau and, at least in the context where I move, almost
everyone goes to libraries and it seems to me that many times there is little
reflection on what happens in libraries. And if it' s good for you
or it' s not good for you, everybody' s quieter, because,
like you say you' re going to life, man, you don
' t say you' re going to the club, you say you'
re going to the library now, but deep down, you can go to
the library and be late and do a lot of things and you have to
think if that' s bringing you closer to your goals and that' s
why I' m telling you how much more. If I leave he saw
if I, in the library of my faculty would have said look rather than
study in general, I will try to understand this and at the end of
the session I will ask myself if I have managed to understand it or not.
And if I don' t understand, I' m going to say
well, because today didn' t work. Of course on the fifth day
it didn' t work. That' s when you have to consider whether
I have any close objectives. But I was going there to the library.
Well, everyone was going to pick up the genetic notes that were, so
come six months into genetics. Well, he was passing the leaves, doing
what everyone was doing, not everyone was calmer. Well, I' ve
been to the library He' s studying genetics, because it' s not
good. That' s what you' re supposed to be doing, because
you came in and said you didn' t forget anything. Sure, it
' s a shame if you felt like you were taking advantage of the time
and we' ve all been through it. No, and you' re
fine with yourself, but we don' t measure whether we' ve learned
or not. Sure, John, in the future I had to give John
from the past of the book, this announcement of other people have taken a
gift. Okay. I want to change, Juan, if you had read
your book in here, I know, I don' t know, but
I do think I would have at least gained in self- esteem and that
' s why my book goes with a lot of faces mine, many faces
many many faces of girls, of boys that I mean, squeal as with
an identity you know of life. I' m not very good at it
and I' m very sorry because there are circumstances, obviously, as already
said, but I do not know if something had changed, maybe not,
but if I had changed something from a part that I lived as this is
not good for me. I' m pawning on something I' m not
good at. And deep down, that thing I' m not good at
is now things I do now that I' m not bad at. Then
of course it would have changed like that introversion, that fear of being wrong
and that fear of expanding. And now I' m more expansive, but
for a much more introverted time. This is precisely why I want to think
that maybe because that' s why it' s written, someone helps or
someone helps help someone is not like the second, helping your son, your
daughter live with a little more confidence. And that will also help you,
to expand a little bit and discover that you can get things that you might
not think a priori, because deep down there are things that you can get
by changing small, making small decisions. Well, listen to that already from
what you lived and that could have been otherwise, a book comes out that
can help change a lot of people. So yes, yes, well,
well, we take advantage of it or not. I mean, I'
m very clear about that, but it' s true that that time would
probably have enjoyed more in that superficial sense, deep down, I mean,
I would have lived as more in my skin, I would have lived more
in my shoes and less in the shoes of someone else who wasn' t.
Also, especially at certain stages of life. When you' re there,
you put so much weight on the study and the identity goes along with
that study and if you' re not having that result, you' re
no longer worth it. Not to mention, it' s a bit similar
to when in the professional era we drag it a little bit if you notice
if in the job, in your professional career you don' t have the
performance or you don' t have the recognition expected or not, because it
also affects your identity and you are no longer valid if you don' t
have valid results at work, which should be separated and, perhaps, even
implied that reflection. What a goal I have with honesty that I do and
where I want to go and what it brings to me and where I put
the satisfaction. No yes and in fact, even look at the concept of
the motherosphere itself. That is not to say that parenting is also a place
of personal realization where I cannot make decisions, reflect, you do not have
to replicate exactly, not go on autopilot, doing what one lived, but
also put those goals in the short term, not to be frustrated or not
to live like in the shoes of another. I have to get this,
this I live it I also do, as a father, I have to
get this then there, then if you don' t do this, if
this doesn' t happen, well, well, then reflect on why this
affects me so much, because this is important to me because it hurts me
when my son happens to this. That also helps to go, learning,
to be, accompany the children, because deep down, it is not worth
going on autopilot, because on autopilot this does not work. You have to
think a little, set yourself goals, think why things affect you more or
less, and that you are trying to get with a conversation or a punishment,
with a decision and without being burdened also and say well, because why
it burdenes me this, because it frustrates me, because I feel impotent with
this clear question, of course and one thing and with this I will finish,
but one thing that unites everything both the upbringing and the study that is
necessary for that reflection, which is the time. Sure, yeah, it
' s black, yeah, it' s time. In the book I
try to put some strategy of this, of time management, but I like
it, that is, for me it is very important as dedramatizing as experiences.
So, that' s why I wouldn' t want anyone reading the
book like I give urgent clues. I don' t believe in urgency.
I already tell you for me the ordinary, the extraordinary, the day-
to- day, the everyday, the everyday. So it' s more
important how to live, so to have the feeling that there' s a
very good book called Stephen' s first thing covid that of the seven habits,
and then he said to separate the urgent from the important thing is the
whole book. There' s like three chapters half a book. It'
s urgent to separate him from the important. Yeah, yeah, and that
idea comes back several times and it' s true. I believe that there
are things that are important, but they are not urgent. But in autopilot
I take you the urgency, because yes, we have to give time to
upbringing, to study, to reading, to everything in general, because we
go very quickly and that affects us in every way and we always demand from
here, from our podcast and in general, we have always demanded to stop
a little and go spend the time that is needed for everything and to read
this book. It' s not that you need to see that I focus
it well, it' s that I have a filter on and then it
doesn' t look. It' s okay. Here it is on top
of my face like that. Yeah, the book Se Lee isn' t
a snugly book I' ve tried. Come on, it' s not
a book. I don' t doubt I appreciate it. I also tell
you no, because we have a lot and life is its people. Also
have or be clear and then that, which is what You say, that
is also true, that is, that the time of the maid is to
be. The thing is, it' s true that reading, reading is
very important to me, uh, because reading is ruminating, reading, and
it doesn' t cost you. But now that you' ve said it,
read yes, foundation stone. Reading is ruminating also helps you set goals,
because it' s saying it' s clear. It is how to
stop is to think of slow Chamber yes, yes, and ours to see
what they say that boys, girls read more less, but then they reach
certain ages and you have to fight to read, to read and not read
it because it serves them for something, please read for the pleasure of reading,
which seems like a juan utopia, but it is true. But the
act of reading itself is revolutionary reading by reading and then still in the attention
part, I defend the exercise of reading. Precisely as this is clear,
i e that at the bottom of the reading is a very good exercise to
focus attention. You' re used to focusing attention. The book is full
of advice, but not Council- like Do this because that' s not
how these advices are. Hey, it' s not thinking, it'
s thinking how you do it. It' s because you do this like
this, how you could do it differently. You have thought about how you
can do it with examples of people, of cases, those of John,
who puts himself there in his own skin and I encourage everyone who listens to
you to give him a little while. Yes, it is true, it
is easy to read, it is easy to read, and besides, it
is pleasant and you can apply it in many aspects of your life. I
' ve already told you that at any moment, we all have that moment
to come across a more intellectual environment than the other, our children, our
students, our surroundings. And you' re going to make the most of
it, Juan. Thank you very much for time, time to spend on
interviews to promote your book. I thank you for the time, and you
have given me that it is not only today' s, but that of
reading them describe the pro after you accompanied the presentation of the book, which
was past people. I also loved what you said, what Jorge uv Da
said. I think it' s very important. And also in this because
I kind of feel very attuned to this mission, that is, let'
s approach teaching families, let' s approach? Let' s get close?
Let' s talk, let' s talk, let' s talk,
let' s talk, let' s talk, let' s talk,
let' s talk, let' s talk, let' s talk.
That' s because we' re in that part together. I feel
that' s very linked. You also know all this, because with that
I stay because it is our total desire also to find the positions and John
nothing that I encourage with the doctorate Ale above all lacks all our support.
We demand with the coffee what Rosales made me. You give him hard there
the motivation you tell him. We don' t send it to you,
don' t take your password off Twitter. Please don' t do this
to yourself. That then it' s one day the on mus suddenly doesn
' t give it to you again that we make fan don' t do
it and come back with the next book that I' m sure you will
and I don' t know, I don' t know. You'
ve got to set targets by playing games You said it. That' s
why I' m always with Dr Good Vale. Yes, it seems to
me that my writer' s journey is going to take a descarshad. Well,
it' s okay. We' ll let you do it later.
Good days of two bullfighting, we' ll tell you something that thank you
so much for visiting us again. We will leave you all in the lights
of the program, the information of the book, the formation of the books
of Juan Vale, of his wonderful blog, of his blog that you can
consult, where you also continue to write, which is like a revolutionary act
also in your blog. I will leave it to you so that you can
consult him and follow what he is reading and tell us his reviews, his
books, his analyses and his reflections, very sudden and very useful and that
it is always a pleasure to listen to you. Juan, Thank you Bonica
for everything, and thank you very much to the people who have listened to
us, who have heard us at any time. I thank you, like
everything in the icauta type to see you listen to this interview. Guys,
we' re leaving We' ll be back in a new episode of good
morning more waiting and it' s a lot of good- bye. Bye.