A passionate instigator and dynamic problem solver. Doctor Kevin ross Emery, the host
of the Doctor Kevin Radio Show. We'll be taking you outside the box,
behind the curtain and identifying the load of bs we are fed every day.
And now Doctor Kevin, Hello, Hello, Hello, and welcome to the
Doctor Kevin Show. Here on Own Time, where we're changing the world.
Wait for it, one own the Times and here on the Doctor Kevin Show.
As always, we're gonna do a little hot topic, introduce our guest,
get some feedback from them, and then we're going to be off and
running. I'd like to remind you this is a live call in show,
so if you would like to call in, you may call in and ask
questions of tonight's guest on myself at two oh two by seven seven five seven.
Again that's two o two five seven zero seven zero five seven. So
for those of you who may be joining us for the first time, my
first question is where the hell have you been? Why won't you hear earlier?
Well, you're here now, so that's all that by It matters.
So when I talk about a hot topic, it might be something that is
warming the cockles of my heart or has me hot under the collar. We
never know what's going to be until it comes out my mouth. Sometimes I
don't know what it's going to be until it comes out my us. But
that's how we roll here on the Doctor Kevin Show. So you know,
tonight's hot topic is about double standards. There's a lot of double standards going
on. You know, we have somebody who has been indicted. We have
somebody who I don't know. I thought they were supposed to wear handcuffs and
have mugshots. We have somebody that is having all these things happen to them
because they were doing things. They are accused of doing things which basically said
that they were above the law. And how are they being treated. They're
being treated like they're above the law. They're not being treated like anybody else
who has been accused, especially of a felony, a serious crime against the
country. No, they're kind to be treated like you know, the stuff
don't stake well, I think it stakes. I think that every American needs
to be seen equal in front of the justice system, which means they get
treated equal in front of the justice system. If they get found innocent,
they're found innocents, if they're found guilty, they did the crime, you
pay the time. But this double standard drives me crazy because we know it's
all the playing of the game, and it's highlighting something that's been going on
for hundreds of years, which we have a clast system in this country,
whether we want to admit it or not. If you are wealthy, you
can get away with more. If you are in politics, you get treated
differently. Excuses are made and you somehow until you get really dragged down and
nobody can deny it or will There'll always be some people to deny it,
but you know that's their problem. They need to be treated equally and this
is not happening in this country. And this is one of the problems with
this country is we don't acknowledge what a double standard, cast like system we
have. And if we dare point out that not everybody is being treated equally
in this country, that maybe that when we pledge of allegiance where there's liberty
and justice for all, we're kind of full of ship because there's not liberty
and justice for all. We don't have liberty and justice for all. Who
are you kidding? Are you black? No, we don't have liberty and
justice for all. I refused to say it when I was in school.
I would say we're striving for liberty and justice for all, because that's what
we're doing, but only if we acknowledge we don't have it. So that's
my hot under the caller. Also, I just want to make something very
clear for those of you who go, oh, that's somebody that's woke.
The opposite of woke is not anti woke. It's asleep. It's comatoset.
It's called coma. Okay. It isn't anti woke, you know, and
Uncle Freddie, it is asleep blind to the reality of the country we live
in, with our heads so far up our eyes see out our teeth.
That's what it is. So that said, that's my hot topic for the
night. My guest is sitting there, going can I hang up? Now?
I wasn't prepared for books, but I know that this is a man
that craft's words all the time. I've known this man for a long time.
I know that there is nothing I can do that's going to throw him
off. His determination to tell us why he's fabulous by his book is fabulous,
and both are true statements. So I don't have a problem with that.
I think we should be loud, proud and true. When you're fabulous,
you're fabulous, and this gift is fabulous. And when you write a
fabulous book, you should say I wrote a fabulous book. Shouldn't hide it,
shouldn't say oh, that's embarrassing, or you know. I don't want
to be seen as having a big head, just specie as having the head
you have. So Tonight's guest is Bill Stirling in his new book, Emotional
Sobriety Solution. The title enough makes Me want to drink, but I had
to stay sober. I guess just based on the title, provides a powerful
and ground drinking understanding of everyday language, none of which you will ever hear
on this show. We don't use everyday language which enables people to interact,
communicate in a healthy, compassionate, and productive way. Over the last thirty
seven years, Bill has been sharing the keys that unlock the secrets to how
people thinking, behaving, and beliefs impact their quality of life. What began
with his search to understand difficult personal interactions led to a consulting career that transforms
personal relationships as well as the companies and executives who experience his work. I'd
say, let's send him too, DC. Put him in Congress in the
White House. There you go. That's what can we get a petition going?
Suddain Bill, Door, Washington, Suddain Bill, Oh sorry. Bill
has mastered a unique blend of emotional and intelligent expertise which accelerates the understanding of
emotions and language and supports the ability to communicate effectively. People who work with
him experience how simple changes in language dramatically improve every aspect of life. Bill.
Welcome to the Doctor Kevin Show. Doctor Chevin, thank you so much
for the introduction. I feel enthusiastic inspired to be here. Imagine what it's
going to be like after you and I start going back and forth. Man,
I'm bringing out my tennis racket so we can hit the ball back and
forth from each other. Well, you know, when they're balls involved,
I'm all about it. So the first thing you do is you get to
invite on the hot topic. Please feel free to disagree with me. Let
me know if you think that everybody gets the same shake in the country or
not home. Actually, I really appreciate the hot topic of double standards and
how do we really take a look at the rule of law and how does
liberty injustice work. How do we do safety and fairness and equality back and
forth with each other as well as you know, be able to hold the
standards of this is what our integrity as a nation looks like. This is
what the certainty of the rule of law looks like. And that's and I
really appreciate the double standard because you get a chance to doctor Kevin to really
just slow down and go like, can we do a better job of recognizing
how people are using language and making decisions based on who the person is,
how much money they have, how much respect and recognition, how many votes
they can carry, instead of here's what the truth looks like, Here's what
integrity looks like. Here does what the respect of a nation looks like.
Here's what respect of law looks like. You know, And and regrettably we
have a growing curve. It goes through in regards to the previous president and
the current upcoming election. We definitely have to stand for integrity and Stanford truth
and really fight for it this time. And you know, one of the
things that I know, you know, Bill, is you know, I've
one of the things I've been doing is working for the last thirty three years
as a relationship catalyst. And this whole concept of double standards, I'm sure
has to come up in your book because communications are fraud with people using language
that unchecked does set up within the communication a kind of greater than lesser than
double standard type of situations. I mean, it has to be in your
book. Talk to me about that. Absolutely. One of the biggest challenges
that I've experienced in writing the book is to try to simplify what is it,
what is it going to take to really create the quality of connection that
we need to break down the double standards that are in front of us.
And one of the first things that I offer in the book is a simple
phrase, empathy before problem solving. So a lot of times when we go
to problem solving first, we're solving the wrong thing, and we need to
get one, two or three lines of empathy before we start to try and
to fix something because or otherwise we'll get stuck into a double standard. We'll
be solving the wrong thing, will be down the wrong streets, and meanwhile,
the answer could be brought to us if we just stay and listen to
better and we're more compassionate and empathetics to each other. Well, I know
that in my work and times I work with individuals to try to help them
actually learn the language of their partner, and we oftentimes don't recognize that each
person actually has their own unique language i e. Definition for the words they're
using, and oftentimes that can cause some of the problems. Talk to me
about how that plays out in your book and in your work. So that's
a great that's a great example. For example, many times people will say
a sentence, this sentence is not true, but I'm going to say the
sentence. For example, a trauma pattern might sound like this, my dad
abandoned me. I felt abandoned by my dad. Now there's a problem there,
because the first problem is the word abandoned is not a ceiling. It's
a mental projection of what you think someone did to you. Gives the power
to the event, and it gives power to the other person. It literally
takes the power away from the speaker. Show a double bind. The word
abandoned, although it might be a description, it's not something you can heal
from the way it's written and spoken, and it's something that you're not that
you can't move through unless you change it to I felt sad when my dad
left the way he did because my need for connection with him wasn't met.
I felt helpless because my need for fairness wasn't met because I didn't have the
time I needed to spend with him to see how I could get healing there.
But the word abandoned is almost like something that handcuffs us to a label
diagnosis instead of a language of compassion. So that's a that's just one of
a miss list of many words and phrases that I take a part in the
book so that the reader can be able to rewrite their traumatic story and write
an empowering story and set a forward motion intention or a vision for themselves away
from their path. So so if you were to say I felt angry when
the jackass dump to me, that would be a healthier statement. That's that
whenever a label sells up, jackass is a good way to And so every
label that I that comes out of a person's mouth, I chuckle a little
bit because the way I define a label is an interesting place to start.
So if somebody says narcissists, that's an interesting place to start, or their
bipolar it's an interesting place to start. It's not the end of the narrative,
it's the start of the narrative. So asshole means he didn't meet the
need for kindness. He didn't meet the need for physical safety, he didn't
meet the need for truth or trust, he didn't need the need for integrity.
Those are good reasons why the world's asshole is an interesting label. But
notice, if I talk about my dad not being an integrity, people will
deepen with me. If I talk about how my dad didn't meet my need
for kindness, people will provide me comfort and kindness because that's what my dad
didn't give me. Asshole gives power. Although funniest crap at the beginning,
and it dispenses a lot of cortisol and adrenaline, it doesn't help us in
the healing process. It is a great way to to start the label and
diagnose somebody, and it's an interesting place to start. And the answer is
what kind of asshole was he? You know? And he wasn't a respect
asshole or was he a fairness asshole? What kind was it? So I
find it very interesting that I said jackass and you took his asshole, So
somehow that is a good thing. Because that's one of my go to words.
That's right, that's right, that's a good point. Yeah, Jack
got this, So that's very very funny. That's why we have a lot
of good time. We talked to it right there. It's you know,
sometimes it's the gateway and I want to get your kind of your feedback and
how you address this in the book. And then I do have to jump
back to the word empathy, but we're not going to jump there yet,
So they're just gonna put a pin in it, okay, and hopefully it
doesn't hit either one of us because we've both been known to be full of
hot air. So is that you know, one of the things that I
that I found powerful is establishing, initially with anybody, do you need to
say it the way you need to say it, or do you need to
say it the way they need to hear it? And sometimes the way they
need to hear it is that work that you need to do with your inner
traumatized self so that they can put the trauma behind them. But that sometimes
we first of all just need to say it the way we need to say
it. Go ahead, say it, get it out, feel good about
it. Tell me how big Jack has on me. Great, now let's
get some real work done. Feel better. I'm feeling ahead. Yeah,
yeah, And I really appreciate the framing that you put on that one,
because how we need to say it is the discharge of the emotional load that's
inside our body. That's called how we need to say it, how they
need to hear it is us concentrating on how much of receptivity would I like
that person to experience. Do I want them to receive it or do I
want to bring them the fire breathing dragon. Because if I bring them the
fire breathing dragon, they're just going to pull defensiveness and withdraw and they're going
to tap out, or they will bring criticism and contempt and they're going to
bring their fire breathing dragon out for a spin. So so those two things
are really, really very important. So if I'm if I want to relieve
my own cortisol and adrenaline in my body, it's probably better if I do
anger with somebody that's safe and as a close friend, rather than bringing the
anger to a person and said, what the person I need to speak to
is, I'm going to get them in touch with how they affected my experience
and the accountable for how they affected my experience. But also say to them,
don't go across that line again. You cross the line. It didn't
meet my need for integrity and trust. It's going to take me a while
to rebuild integrity and trust with you. So now we've got a big of
a challenge between the two of us. Now it's between the two us.
I just changed a adversarial language into a language of collaboration and cooperation. It
just said we need to restore trust and integrity. I could have hung it
on them, Hey, you need to fix it. No, no,
no, I'll define what integrity and trust is. I'll make it clear of
where the the restoration and the repair is. At the same time, you
got to come my way. I'm coming a little bit with your way,
but I'm also not bringing the blame and same game into the experience. I'm
just going we got to fix this. And so that's a That's the wonderful
thing about the way you just reframed it, Doctor Kem is fantastic. So
now so one the response is who be we cowboy? As Tonto said,
what do you do? What do you do? That's a great pushback if
the pushback in the narrative sounds like what is the who's the WI in this?
Then I'm gonna I'm going to getly follow on the sword and demonstrate how
to do that so they can be humble too. I would say it the
following sentence, So you feel frustrated, you'd like me to take more acountability?
Is that correct? Now? They don't know. I just put them
on the hook for accountability, by the way, because I pulled the accountability
out and say, yeah, you would like me to have some accountability.
Here's the accountability I like to see. Is that something you can meet?
And then the person's going rut row, you know. Look, it's like
the accountability is coming out, and then you're moving your way out of the
double standards that the person might be trying to force you into, and you're
dragging them into the place of mutuality, equality, mutual respect for you as
another human being, and you're pulling them where they need to be for where,
for where both parties could be acknowledged as sharing the same type of justice
or the same type of fairness in communication. Accountability is a big part of
that. That's what I would recommend. You know, sometimes you know,
it can come to the table with your accountability and a request for them to
join you in the middle of the river. But sometimes you have to also
get an agreement that there's a goal that something needs to happen. I'm sure.
Yeah, that whole idea of a goal is really is important because the
goal changes to a value or a need that both people have in common or
they both would want it, and then that can that can be helpful.
You know, sometimes it's hard to get it, you know, because if
something really terrible has happened, then it's it can be really challenging. So
for example, when I did a mediation in Slint, Michigan during the water
crisis, and I came in there and there's seventy five people in the room,
there's some angry people in the room, you think, you know,
and because some people are angry because the need for fairness wasn't met. Other
people are angry because the need for justices it might not be met. Some
people had it around respect, some people had it around equality. Why did
the why did the polluted water go over here? So again that unsettledness is
is that we've got to do some things language wise to go bad things happen,
but we have the ability to address, clean up, restore to the
best of our abilities some of these greater challenges that we're facing now. It's
interesting you use slip Michigan because I thought I recently read that that problem still
hasn't gone away. They are still in the process of restoration. It would
have been quicker if federal money was spent to restore the city, but it
was not the way I would have liked it to be. And there has
been elements of justice that have been taken place. Some of the elements of
justice might be not the help to the level of accountability of the trauma and
the kind of the lingering problems inside the city that needs to take place.
And that's a part of both the legal system as well as a part of
our willingness as human beings to step up and say we're going to right the
wrong. We're going to fix it. This person made or committee made a
terrible choice, and the great are greater. The way we handle these things
as a nation is you step in and fix certain things. Mistakes people make
because of they're limited ability to see and check in with themselves and say no,
I'm not desting the water over there to save money, because it's going
to pollute and cause a lot of problems over here. I'm not doing that
to save money. We have to figure out a way to pay for this
that they not save money or not make this choice, because it's not one
that's a healthy choice for our city and our community and those people that are
involved, you know. And it's a rulely often. And isn't this just
another example though, of what we were talking about earlier, is when double
standards come in. As long as my kids get good water and are not
getting sick, well, your kids are not as important because of the part
of town you come from, or your poverty level, or your race or
all sorts of things. Yeah, so true, so true, And we
can we can do this and and a micro level like and a medium sized
level, and we can also do at a macro level of how do we
as human beings really fight for you know, certain standards of ours whereas other
people are saying, no, this is my identity. I see my identity
as this, and I'm willing to die for that identity. It's like that
identity that you're going for isn't really congruent to this up the way things have
changed. Things have changed, and people struggle with changed. I mean,
that's doctor Kevin. That's one of the hardest things is that our brain is
wired for safety. It's not wired for change. It's why for protection.
It's not wired for growth. It's more wired for stability rather than creativity.
It's more wired. It doesn't mean that creative people don't have an extensive access
to creativity. Yeah they do. But it's also there's a part of the
brain that goes well, once I learn how to drive, I'm not going
to change, you know, my my driving patterns because I wor about it,
because this is the thing about driving, you know, or any other
habitual behavior that that and doctor Evan, you really help people with helping them
through the change and you know the struggle that people change as they try to
rewrite their limbic brain and try to use the front part of the brain to
rewrite it. You know, it's kind of like an elephant is the limbic
brain, and there's a little writer with the stick on top of it,
just tapping the brain a little bit right or a little bit left. And
you and I have spent time try to help people transform their habit patterns transform
the way they see the world. And that's one of the kind of the
gifts that you're bringing into the world, as well as the gifts that I
bring the world regarding language, how do we speak and think better? So
I'm gonna ask you a question, and I know we're going to get to
break music in any moment, but I'm going to try to get this question
out for you to cogitate on on our break is I think that the the
the ability to adapt to change is directly can be directly linked to the ability
to be fully present. I think when we are less on autopilot and we
are more fully present and actually interacting with the world in a present way,
that we better train ourselves for big change because in being actually fully present,
which most people are not, they ignore all the little changes. But if
you're actually taking in the little changes, I think you start to train your
brain to be more open and resilient and flexible with big change. And there's
our music. I'm going to let you conjucate on that question. We'll be
back in a moment with the author of Emotional Sobriety, Bill Sterley. Conscious
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Hello, Hello, Hello, and welcome back to the Doctor Kevin Show.
I am on today with Bill Sterley. Bill's newest book is called The
Emotional Sobriety Solution. Bill, can you tell us where people can find your
book? Thanks for thanks for a pointing it out, Doctor Kevin. The
book can be found on Amazon. It's The Emotional Sobriety Solution and the We
had a wonderful lunch of the book and within three days we had Just recently
we had over six hundred books move out into the market and it's kind of
like we've hit number one on Amazon over this five day period. It's just
so exciting to get this information out to people so that they can not be
so overreactive to the emotions that are sewing up in their bodies and learn how
to use emotions for what they're meant for. And that's one of the things
I cover in the book is what are our emotions meant for what are what's
the purpose of our emotions? And and doctor Kevin, one of the things
that I really try to get people to do is to change one small beliefs
that they have. And the the small belief is, and it's really very
difficult to change this one that it's that there is no such thing as a
good or bad feeling, that there is no such thing as a positive or
negative feeling. We've got to set that belief aside and replace it with this
belief. Feelings are only indicators. So doctor Kevin, if you stub your
toe, you're going to feel pain in your toe, and it's because your
need for comfort is not met. Pain is necessary for you to protect yourself.
You need that. If somebody doesn't meet your need for respect, then
anger might be the right feeling to come up in your body or aggravated.
So the feeling is only the indicator. And to have to have people start
seeing an experiencing their feelings as indicator. They start becoming more present in the
moment and they are looking down at the dashboard of their life, of their
car, and then when the oil light comes on, it's like, oh,
yeah, I do feel tired, I do need rest. Oh yeah,
I do feel irritated. I really needed support from my coworker. This
idea that feelings are only indicators changes the way we see empathy. You know,
to carry somebody else's feelings that's theirs. Being able to contribute to their
needs can make a big difference. So I don't know how to sit with
you, but it actually answers a little bit of the question that you asked
me before the break. Okay, connect those dots, because I have three
more questions. Okay, let me connect the dots, so you asked before
the break. Being more aware, being more present in a moment allows for
greater opportunity for us as human beings. If we start seeing feelings as indicators
to our needs being med and not being met, then we can start changing
ourselves from being a numb nice dead person or a volatile monster person, which
is currently what's in the environment. If you haven't noticed that detail, people
go nice dead person, monster person, nice dead person, monster person,
nice person, monster person, and you can watch them go from victrum to
violent streamer, and it's like, oh my gosh, and that's a person
that's not very present and it's not very engaged. There's just meeting their needs
at the expense of others. So that's there's one way to draw those dots
together. So do you I had to say, agree or disagree, but
do you think that there is truth in the more present person develops better skill
sets to deal with change. That's correct, That's that's true. The more
present you are, you have more skill set to develop change. And one
of those doors that is accessible is how well can I empathize with myself what
is going on inside me, or empathize with somebody somebody else that's going on
inside them, And that becomes a present moment that integrates the brain, that
allows us to be greater presence. Because Kevin, I really dr Kevin,
I really felt excited and energized because I knew that you and I are going
to be able to contribute to your audience. I knew how much value this
had. So what's alive in me, what's very present in me, is
acknowledging and knowing how much you contribute to your audience when you get on with
them. And for me to be able to share the things that I've worked
on in this book that I've written, it's just it's like my feeling is
excited and energized, and I'm alive. I'm able to contribute to change because
I'm more present in this moment. And you the way you sap up learning
and how you support people towards change lights you up. You know, that's
that's the wonderful tennis match that we can have as human beings between each other,
and that facilitates change. You know, at this point and at our
age, Bill, it's probably more of a croquet match. Just saying no,
now that is That's what I'm not going to argue with it at all,
not even a little bit like that. That't want to run all over
there from the ball over there? That way, No, I stayed there
instead of the ball come here, or I can't be bothered. So anyways,
So I do want to make a clarification for my audience, because I
know my audience good from the perspective of you know, I'm almost eighteen years
in now with this show. We often talk about empathy on this show,
but we talk about it from the psychic ability of empathy. So every time
you say empathy, a lot of my listeners are going to think, well,
every time doctor Kevin talks about empathy, he talks about how you don't
want to take on the emotions of the other person and have them go through
your body as if those emotions were yours. And again we talk about it
as a psychic EmPATH makes you feel better by taking the feelings you don't want
to feel and take from you and energetically puts it through their energy body.
So I need you to give my audience your definition of empathy because they're sitting
here going no, no, no. Doctor Kevin told us, we don't
want to be having empathy for other people in an engaged way. We want
to have the understanding. Listen, I really love your definition, by the
way, I think it's fantastic. And I'm going to my added piece,
my plus. My contribution is I like people to use like you're saying,
don't run the don't run an emotion through your body. Don't use the definition
of putting your feet in somebody else's shoes. Use a different definition. It's
the ability. Here's my Bill Stirley's definition. Emphathy only occurs when I'm going
to make it very active right now, the definition is going to be very
active. Emphathy only occurs when a feeling word feeling word and a need word
are connected and then agreed upon those that's got it. It's got three pieces
to it. Here's this feeling word frustrated, Here's this need word support and
is that what was missing? Is that what you needed? Is that you
needed support? So it'll sound like because I don't want the I don't want
the feeling of irritated, the air irritation to go through me, go,
I'm going to proactively energetically guess in their direction. Listen, I'm noticing to
be feeling irritated and you needed a different support from me? Is that correct?
Because I don't know. I can't mind bread necessarily, and even though
I'm pretty good at guessing, I still want to clarify and get the other
person to be accountable for their upset. You want them to be accountable so
it doesn't run through me. I to get them to say, yes,
yeah it was support, or no it was respect, or no it was
theirness. I've got to get them to own their irritation and their frustration.
I want them to own it, yeah, because it's closed to the thing.
So first of all, I'm going to respond to that, and then
I want to make this a teaching lesson that Bill and I just engaged in
completely spontaneously. So the first part of this is and when we're using Bill's
definition of empathy a feeling word with a need word to intellectually connect with the
other person as to the experience we had in the experience they had. And
in doing that, I call it we invite them. We invite them to
meet us in the middle of the river of change. We're changing how we
communicate, and we come together in that river. And we were in that
river together because each of us feels like the other person has acknowledged and understood
where we came from without like you said earlier, shame, blame, fault,
all of that stuff. And so you know, one of the signature
lines on one of my emails has my quote, you know change is coming.
You master it or it masters you. Your choice, right, So
the change is non negotiable now. So and so, first of all,
I want to thank you for your definition of empathy. And then one of
the things that's so important. I know that this is important, and I
know that this is in Bill's book, and I know that this is also
something that I've been teaching and working with for years. Is this whole concept
of different words mean things to different people. I'm always saying, when I
say this word, I'm going to define it for you, because I know
that there are ten other definitions out there and they're not going to work with
what I'm trying to share with you, right, And the teaching moment was
Bill didn't get defensive. He didn't say what do you mean if I what
are you an idiot? He didn't. He didn't, you know, feel
like he had to. He didn't feel attacked, and that was clear.
And I was not attacking him, and I was explaining him, and we
were inviting each other to exchange the definitions of words, which turned into a
productive, positive communication, which was a teaching moment to our listeners. This
is what you need to do in your communications, get people to define words,
to find your own words. Yeah, so thanks for sharing that teaching
moment with me. Go ahead. Oh my, oh my gosh, it's
it's it's really it's really wonderful because the thing, doctor Kevin, that you're
catching is that so many times people don't have the space to allow two different
kinds of definitions, two different kinds of interpretations to exist at the same time
time. And they fall into the trap, and it is a trap of
the four horsemen of an apocalypse, of a communication apocalypse. They fall into
criticism, they fall into this defensiveness, they fall into contempt, they fall
into stonewalling or withdrawing. They fall into those that their strategy of protection instead
of the change that's right there in front of you, is walking through and
just colling. I don't know what do you mean by this word? I
mean this, Oh, I learned it this way. This is the way
my dad taught it, This is what my teacher said, this is what
my mentors said. And instead be open and allow the change, and to
allow initially that two things can exist at the same time and be collaborative and
cooperative with finding and appreciating each other's point of view makes a huge different.
And you know, one of the things I invite people to do when I'm
doing couple's work or trying to do the you know, my version of the
stuff I do, because we're you know, on different but parallel tracks.
I mean, we both do that, yes, and is to say,
well, when they say that, when they give you that definition, what
word would you use for that in your head? Can you start by substituting
that when they say empathy, you think, well, that's how I would
define sympathy. Okay, Well if you can go when they say empathy,
I'm really thinking that they mean sympathy. Not get hung up that your definitions
don't match. But find the definition that makes the communication work. Because what's
the goal to work? For the communication to work and be a win win
win situation for all parties involved, right right, it's a it's a gentle
way of just providing a little bit of space between the stimulus and the response,
slow down the emotional reaction and move and start to use curiosity and inquiry
as a way to you know, be present to the other person's way of
seeing this. And it makes a big difference. It really really does,
absolutely now. So first of all, so people know, because I have
Bill's book in front of me, ha ha ha, I could cheat.
Is just so you know. Chapter twelve is nice dead person wants a person,
a compassionate person. So if you thought, I really want to know
more about this, well you go to Amazon dot com and you get yourself
a copity of the Emotional Sobriety Solution. You can turn to chapter twelve and
find out, one am I a nice dead person? What am I a
monster person? And one am my compassionate person? And one am my other
person that just has to figure out whey to hide the body? That's not
the chapter title. Then also chapter thirteen, which I was going to ask
about and you beat me to it. You must be psychic, the four
Horsemen of the Communication Apocalypse. If that struck you, if you heard what
he said, and I'm going to make him repeat those four horsemen a little
more slowly because he kind of threw it out casually in conversation, with a
whole bunch of other words around it. And I think that this is powerful
enough that I'd like you to stop, slow down and tell us again the
four Horsemen. But that's chapter thirteen. So if you listen to these and
you go, oh my god, yeah, I need help with those again,
audience, what do you do? I go to Amazon dot com and
I put it in the Emotional Riety Solutions might build sturly and I get the
book. There's your answer. See if that question it wouldn't be so hard.
Bill tell us about the four Horsemen. Well, I appreciate this.
The four Horsemen are criticism. That's number one defensiveness, two three is contempt,
and fourth is withdrawal. So those four different horsemen. Those are protective
strategies that people use, but are also things that make things worse. It
escalates, eventually escalates the conflict. And inside the book, I've written ways
to diffuse people that use those strategies in your direction. So if a person
defensively says, well I didn't do it, that wasn't me, that's not
true. All of those are defensive statements. So what do you say back?
And inside the book I give examples about what do you say back when
somebody says the sentence looks impenerritable, like a defensive sentence or a criticism sentence,
what's wrong with you? What do you say back? What do you
say back when somebody says it's your fault? What do you say bad when
they're using criticism? And what do you say back when nobody when a person
doesn't return your phone call or doesn't return your email, what do you say
next? And what I do is I go In the book of here some
examples of things to say and do in order to loose it up and get
the horseman to calm down and go away, so the horseman doesn't show up
the same way the the person then is able to be more peaceful and not
be such a monster person around here. Thank you for elaborating on that.
I know that's going to be helpful to our audience. In the time we
have left, I have two more places I want to pull things out of
your book to talk about, and so I'm gonna I'm gonna start with I
found it very interesting because again here on the Doctor Kevin Show, and when
we're talking in the in the more esoteric metaphysical spirit, you know, spiritual
psychic realms, we tend to have a very different definition definition for empathy.
So when I saw your replacing sympathy with empathy, and you know, so
of course here we look at we would look at sympathy as you can.
You can say you can acknowledge that you're not you know, that you're recognizing
that they feel bad or that they feel angry, and that you can get
that that's where they are. But of course with your definitive different definition of
empathy, I am curious if your definition of sympathy involves it. Some people
use sympathy as a way of condescension and dismissal. Is that part of it
or do you just have a very different definition of sympathy. No, I
appreciate that a sympathy can be used as a get out of jail free card.
It's like, yeah, that thing happened to me, I know what
you're going through, and I talk about it a little bit there, and
then I also talk about how to convert a sympathetic sentence into an empathetic sentence,
and what are some ways to swap out language so that it creates more
present more connection, allows change to take place easier because when we sympathy,
sometimes people hijack the promo or the wounds and say, oh, yeah,
something like happened happened with your dad, same thing happened with my dad,
blah blah blah blah, And now all of a sudden they're onto their story.
It's like, I'm sorry, did you not remember that there was a
traumatized person telling you this story? It was like, and it's it is
a way. Regrettably, we've been taught to make ourselves comfortable but still come
off as or try to come off as listening or kind, which we are,
but we didn't know that that language pattern doesn't serve us fully. It's
not as powerful as a stronger empathetic sentence. So the answer, short answer
Savan is yes. And the longer answer is how did we swap out sympathy
sentences with empathy sentence? Well, and some on sympathy is the calling card
again. You know, we travel in slightly different worlds. We understand each
other, We've we've never had a problem understanding each other in what fifteen years
at least, and uh, but we do travel in different words where different
languages used in different perceptions are about you know, around in people's concepts,
and you know, for us, oftentimes, sympathy is the calling card of
an energy leach. Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah, And I think
that's a good that's a good term. Yep, Yes, it can be
yep that somebody that literally feeds off you and uses sympathy as their calling card.
And again I was. I was once in a funeral and the person
that was grieving their husband, somebody came up and started telling a story about
them grieving their minds, And I went, how long when did that happen?
Oh? It was fifteen years ago. And I'm like, for gotta
say, once the woman mourned the us. We come back later if you
want to talk to about your problems that you know, I was thinking that
in my head. But at the same time, you know, it's that's
that's an example, Kevin. You know, the energy leech that you mentioned
is a good label. It's a good place to start to recognize. Hey,
you know, the compassion and empathetic to the person you're in front use.
If you have never seen it, find it on YouTube. It is
a clip out of the first time Robin Williams was on the Carol Burnett Show,
and there is a skit where she is a grieving widow and he's just
somebody that like maybe worked in the office with him, didn't barely know him
or whatever. But he goes in and he takes over the whole funeral through
keying, using the process of keying, and it is the funniest thing.
And you watch the whole thing seeing Carol Burnett under the widow thing, trying
not to hysterically laugh because Robert Williams did that spontaneously. It wasn't part of
the script. Oh god, oh my god, I can't wait to watch
it. That's fantastic. Yeah, you're you're you would so appreciate it.
The last thing I'm want to put out because I know we're almost at the
time, is he also has a change chapter called facing Shame. To be
respectful, I'm not going to open up the can of worms too much because
I know at about thirty to forty five seconds we're going to be going off
air, and I don't want people to hear half a sentence and be frustrated.
But I know that shame is a huge thing. It's a huge manipulation
tool. It's a huge patrol tool. He has a chapter on facing change
amazon the Emotional Sobriety Solution Bill. Thanks for coming to spend too long.
Let's catch up soon, all right, Doctor Kevin, have a great one.
Thank you very much. Bye bye bye