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You do Soccer is going to explode it and it's going to be around this kid. You're the Beatles. Everywhere we went it was the Freddie Show. And with that came the expectation, and with that came the pressure. New episodes of American Prodigy dropped Tuesdays from Blue Wire Podcasts. What is kracklacking? Harder Knox sisteners? I am Dan Favalley coming at you this time without my co host Adam Brammel. We are continuing on with our loaded podcasts, and I will say this one is mega loaded, so I won't waste any time. We're first speaking with Salmon Ali. He covers the Houston Rockets for ESPN ninety seven point five and also hosts the Red Nation Hoops podcast. Follow him on Twitter at Salmon Ali NBA. That's at sal m a n l a l I NBA. After we speak with him, we are going to talk with Tara Bowen Biggs about the Portland Trailblazers. She is a co host of the We Have a Take and Step Back Sisters podcast. Follow her on Twitter at tcb b i GG. Then after that we have a dual podcast with co hosts, both of them from the Timeline Pod, which is also hosted by Blue Wire. We have Mike V. Hill follow him on Twitter at protected pick spelled exactly as it sounds. And Sam Cooper at scoop r h Oops. We're talking all things Phoenix Suns leading into the regular season. As always, we are putting out a ton of content this pod in total. While there will be timestamps and I encourage you to jump around, it's running over four hours long. That's all I could say. But we're getting too James Harden trades with Salmon Ali. We're covering the Suns with Sam and Mike, and then we're talking all things Blazers with with Tara. This is going to be a fun one. Please subscribe to us download all of our episodes. That's why we're putting out so much content. Wherever you're getting your podcast, it helps us whether or not you're using iTunes, though, please head over there search Hardwood Knox. Throw us a five star rating, write a review, even if it's constructives criticism. We also appreciate that I will not delay you any further, though we are going too once again begain Salmon Ali to propose many many James Harden trades that it's on too Tara Bow and Biggs, we will talk all things Blazers, and after that with Sam Cooper and Mike Vee Hill we're talking everything and anything Phoenix Suns. Salomon, Welcome back to the Hardware Knox Podcast. I think it's your third or fourth appearance here of the off season, and I think I've been on your podcast two or three times. I don't know why. It's not like there's been anything to talk about with with the Rockets, But how are you this boring? Like just like like box of vanilla ice cream like team, like nothing ever happens. They're basically the Spurs, Like just nothing fun and it happens that. Yeah, they don't make trades, they don't they don't go after free agents, they nothing, no drama happens within the organization. They're just boring, very stable organization. How are you doing tonight since we last spoke, which I think was less than twenty four hours ago, as at this moment, I guess I'm doing all right. It's just's a lot to keep your eyes on, right with this team, like whenever you cover a team like this, like we're just so many and so feel like like we started. I mean, I guess we can talk about the prior podcast like we were talking about for the Rockets, like who they would sign for the taxpayer m l E. Like that, like that that's the kind of stuff we were talking about, or would they even use it? Yeah? Right, and they start the offseason. Mike D'Antoni goes down, Terrel Morey goes down, Russell Westbrook goes down, and now James Harden might go down like that. That's how far we've come this offseason. And look, James Harden did show up. That's so if you you should listen to the Red Nation Hoops podcast. I plugged it in the intro that you all just heard, but go check it out. We just recorded one on the John Wall Fit with west with Harden. If he plays without Harden, should they move him? So we broke that all down. We did talk about the James Harden situation a lot as of that moment, though, and that's where where we will pick this up. He had not reported to the Rockets, and then on Tuesday he did report to the Rockets got tested for COVID. So he's in Houston now we are. We have ascertained that he wasn't in Vegas or at least I guess maybe he could have jet set again, who knows at this point, but as of right now, we believe that James Harden is in Houston, still wants out of Houston, but he is in fact in Houston. That's where we're at right Simon. Yeah, he's in Houston. He's taking his first COVID tests. To my knowledge, he's come back negative, but we you know who, God knows. I mean, he's been out in Las Vegas and Atlanta without a mask, so he needs I think I believe he needs three negative COVID tests before he's able to be with the team or ten days away from the team. So I'm guessing the Rockets are hoping that he gets three negative tests back to back to back. He's probably gonna miss the first preseason game against Chicago, so the Rockets are hoping to get him back for that second preseason game and we'll see if he's engaged with the team at that point. Can you hear me? Oh sorry, I was on mute. Can you hear me now? Yeah? Awesome. So it would be par for the course of this whole situation if he gets two negative tests back, then then like a positive and then he tests negative again, but then he like leaves the market to go hang out somewhere and this whole thing just starts all over again. That would be part of the course of what's happened so far. I mean, like my question is, like, why hasn't the league saying anything like this guy was out in two different cities. Well, like, I think the protocol was that everybody had to be in camp by the twenty eighth rade that their home city by November twenty eighth, and they had to stay there for a week before they started training camp. Then they had to have individual workouts and stuff. And he's just skirting by all these rules. Like no one's even giving him a slap on the wrist at all. He's just getting a beating from the media. That's it. No one else has really cared. So the way I read it, and then if they had a specific date where like you had to be there and not just expected, but the way I read it was that while you were in your home market, you couldn't go to clubs or all these places. And so if Harden's louphole was well, then I'm just gonna go to Atlanta and Vegas because it's outside of the Houston market. And that's how he's like flying under the punishment. I don't I don't know, maybe the league doesn't want to intervene because it doesn't know what to do because anything it does do is gonna be like just add fuel to the fire and maybe make this look very heavy handed, right right, So, but if you want to listen to, like the more nuanced breakdown everything that's happening, go listen to that Red Nation Hoops podcast. We are just here because I came up, as I told you, with fourteen James Harden trade packages across twelve teams, and we want to make this clearer. Salmon's gonna shoot them down, say what needs maybe more needs to be added to them, But I personally and Salmon personally, we don't endorse these. These are just the ones that I came up with. I tried to find teams that I could talk myself into trading for James Harden and giving up like close to what Houston's asking prices. I'm not assuming that they're gonna get lowballed and bite the you know, the metaphorical bullet on a James Harden trade. So that's how this was done. And I think the best place to start is actually in Philly because it seems like the bar is going to be Can any teams give the Rockets an offer that would beat an offer down the line from Philly that includes Joel Embiat or Ben Simmons to me, because that's why you would wait if you're Houston, I wouldn't want to drag this out. I said on your podcast, I thought my gut said he had played his last game for the Rockets. I think that's probably overwhelmingly going to be wrong now unless this podcast, like our other five this past offseason, gets blown up momentarily. So if you wait, if you're Houston, you wait to see if the Sixers are willing to give up one of those two stars, or if a team can come in and actually beat or at least rival what a package with Joel Embiat or Ben Simmons would be. Do you think that's like a fair line of thinking to approach this with right, And I think the Sixers want to see what they look like this season. Would just Ben Simmons, Joel embiad in space. I think that's been Morey's whole talking point this entire offseason. And it makes sense, right, Like they were really good like two years ago when they had a normal functioning roster, and now they're they're you know, they spent the past two years with like a very crammed paint, no shooting whatsoever except for JJ Reddick a couple of years ago. They haven't really had you know, significant space for these guys to operate. And now they have a normal, like good fitting roster, and I think they want to see what the ceiling is with this team. This is a very important like year four for Mbeed and Simmons, Like year four, I think it's always a pivotal year when you're talking about like young superstar pairings, Like I remember year four for Bradley Beale and John Wall being pretty pivotal, and like we were like wondering whether or not that was gonna be a year they thought about whether or not they should go forward with this core break it up. And I think that's gonna be something, you know, the Sixers talk about this season, like what can the what can the ceiling be for this Sixers team? Can they get to that high fifties, you know, win threshold where you're really talking about them as a title contender or are they still gonna be like like high forties, low fifties. And if that's the case, you have to probably move for you probably have to move forward and try to improve on that core and by flipping one of these guys. And the other reason why you want to wait is Walt Harden is better than both of them. The separation is like I would say, Ben Simmons is no worse than the twentieth best player in the league right now. I'd probably have him in the top fifteen, and then Joel Embiad is probably somewhere like top twelve. If you could count on him being healthy, maybe he's top eight. So like you're the difference between like Harden, Yes, he's a top three player, and there's a huge difference still between that. But like you have these guys, they're both top fifteen, top twenty guys. Joel embiat is only twenty six with three guarantee years left on his contract, no options. Ben Simmons twenty four, five years left on his contract. I don't believe he is a player option. So Harden is thirty one, correct, I think he's thirty one. He's not thirty two, is he. Yeah, he's thirty one. Yeah. So he has two years and a player option left on his deal, and the expectation is he's gonna opt out after that or you're gonna need to extend him. So there's a risk involved in getting him, even though he's the better player. But that also makes like, let's say, so we're fast forwarding and saying it's not working where it's not working as well as Philly would like, and so they're deciding they're going to trade for James Harden. If I'm Philly, so I'm gonna start here, I would prefer to trade Joell Eenbiad. He's older, he might be the better player right now. I know Ben Simmons in theory needs to be more ball dominant, but like Joell Embiad is not the most like efficient pick and pop option or even rollman, so like you still need to give him his post ups or his face ups. I think Simmons might be better suited to be the role man next to Harden. And so one, do you agree with that logic? And two, if the sixers and the framework I have for each of these deals is Joel Embie or Ben Simmons and Mike Scott, like that makes the money work. But if it's Embide that's going to Houston, one is Houston even interested in matters that every Ben Simmons or bust. And then the third part of that question is obviously what else needs to be attached to the Embid Mike Scott framework for Houston to bite. So I've been perusing NBA Twitter just to see what other people think about this kind of trade, right, And I've been seeing this a lot, right, like, just like Mbiad should be the guy that that gets flipped, and I just I like Houston would be doing front flips if they can land and be, Like I think the difference between Embiad and Simmons right now just from what they've seen from them, Like I have confidence that Embiad can someday be the best player at championship team, maybe not now but later, And I don't have that same confidence from Ben Simmons yet, Like I think Ben Simmons has a ceiling for a top fifteen guy. I don't think, like Joel Embiad can be that guy. And I actually believe the fit with Harden and Embiid is a little cleaner than Simmons and Embat than Simmons and Harden. And it's one of those things where like I think, like when you have Himbad, you just have to surround him with floor spacing as much as you possibly can. And I think, you know what that team is really missing is they just need a perimeter guard that can score and be a playmaker and be a you know, be really dynamic on the perimeter. And that's what they hoped, folks was going to be. Right like that, that's the whole theory and drafting folks. And I don't blame them at all for trading for faults. I thought that was the right decision at the time. It just blew up in their face. It happens, right, ye. And I think I think if I were them, like, if if I get another good, you know, season of good health from EMBID, I think I feel pretty confident moving Simmons. I think that's the big the big thing though, I think I think if if you're Philadelphia, like if you get like a you know, sixty games season from EMBIID a fifty game season from EMBIED, like, yeah, maybe you decide we want to keep Simmons, Like screw that, Like we're just gonna roll with Harden as our best player and Simmons as our number two guy, which makes sense, but you know, it's it's it's a risk because I think you and I agree, like Embat's probably the better player, and we both probably view him as being the better player moving forward. I see, I think Simmons has a chance to usurp him, but that there's Embeed is better just I mean, you look at what he's able to do on defense, you couple that with his playmaking embiid. Look, I know the Sixers don't play this way, but he is only ranked better than the thirtieth percentile in rollman points scored per possession once in his career. So I think there's like issues. They're not going to run pick and roll at all if they get hard. I think it's gonna be like straight up like ISO from both both of those guys. It's gonna be pick. It's gonna be hard and isolating on their wing and post ups. For Embiad, it's gonna be a really ugly offense. But I think it can be really damn efficient because both of those guys are really efficient in those roles. See, and I'm trying to look at it as like if you were trying to build out, like to do more stuff than just isolation. I like the idea of like having Ben Simmons. I feel like he long term could be the better role man. But I get what you're saying, Like Embid averaged one point one points per post up possession, which is like, actually pretty good offensively in general, not just for post ups. So I think there's an argument to be made each way. So let's start with Embiad. Then if you're the rockets aside from Embiad and the filler, which I'm using is Scott, what do you need in this deal to do it? So I think if you're in Philadelphia, you have all the leverage here, right, and so you use that leverage to be like, no, we're not trading you this godfather offer of picks. We're gonna give you like a protected first round pick in the next couple of years, not one like four or five years from now, and we're gonna give you like a swap the next the following season. We're not gonna give you, you know, like four picks, and two of those are swaps and they're like four years out, Like we're not doing that. We're like, we're not gonna give you the Brooklyn off. Sorry, like we were already giving you Simmons. We're already giving you your foundational piece. You guys have to figure out how how to fill out the roster around him. You guys have to figure out how to do the team building. That's not that's not on us to do that for you. Right, We're like, this is a pretty fair trade that that we're giving you. You're you're you're not getting any player better than Simmons on the market. We're gonna we're gonna stand pat here. That's what I would do for our Philly, and I think they'd probably get away with that. Well, I think they would too. So you're on Simmons. So you're if you have to me, if it's Philly's already traded away, it's twenty twenty five first to Oklahoma City and the al Horf for trade. So if it's a twenty twenty three first round pick, let's say top seven protection and then a twenty twenty four swap plus Simmons and Mike Scott is Houston doing that, that's enough. That's enough because again, like you're already getting the foundational pieces there. You have the picks coming in and you know, like they're probably not gonna be like that pick is going to convey, right, like, if you're getting James Harden, that pick is gonna convey and and well unless he leaves in free agency, because that would be the twenty twenty three draft to be the first draft in which you wouldn't have had Harden in the preceding season should he leave. So I think I think you probably do this deal with the idea that Harden's probably gonna say And yeah, I mean that would be the already even interrupted, that would be no team is making any of the deals that we're about to propose unless they have a feel that James Harden is going to be there for longer than two years. Yeah, And I think Phil I do if you can confidently say that. And I mean because I mean this report that came out today that he has added Philadelphia to his prefer destinations list. I'm love the mind. It was probably always on there, like once he saw Darryl Moore going there, but was he was probably trying to see if you get force the way in Brooklyn first, what happens if it's Embead then going instead of Simmons. So I think it beat is better, right, So, and I think I think it's easy to build. I mean, for me, like I can see a team built around inbiad winning a championship. It's it's just after that, it's on heart. It's on Houston to play the free game, and you know, open up cap space, like a couple of years from now when John Wallace contract expires and get that second star right, or maybe even trade John wallfer an expiring you know, use your picks that you just got this summer, flip those for an expiring contract for the freegency game next summer and try to pair and beat with the Star right. And if I'm Houston at that point, I'm asking for less protections on that pick. You know, maybe it's instead of top seven protected, its top four protected, right, like you're not because you're getting you're getting the the Yes, it's the better asset, but it's not the safer asset. Like Simmons is the safer asset because he does not have as extensive an AD injury history. Then he doesn't have as extensive adv injury history as MBA. He has won its extensive. So if I were Houston, I would do twenty twenty three top three protected, twenty twenty four, swap EMBIID and filler like the squat. I'm just gonna say, Mike Scott, maybe there's more in there because Philly wants It's like, yeah, I would do that if I was Philly. Now on the Simmons front, I am not. I'm probably wanting top ten protection on twenty twenty three, and I don't know if I'm giving the option of a swap and if I am, I want lottery protection on that because Simmons is under contract now for five years and he's so damn young. Like I would even start out like, hey, we're gonna give you you want you want with Tea Sieball and Ben Simmons and Mike Scott, like that's where you're getting. And if it gets to that point, like let's say it's even heavier protected, let's say it's a heavier protected first plus Simmons and then maybe a swap in twenty twenty four. Is Houston saying no to that or are they still accepting net? Sorry? Can you repeat the swaps in the protections again? So I'm gonna say, let's say top ten protection in twenty twenty three twenty four, swap Ben Simmons and my Scott, Like if I'm Philly, that would be my top out offer twenty twenty has already reshaped how we work and it's almost over. Businesses across the globe are challenged to be their most efficient, which means every hire is critical. Well. Indeed is here to help. Unlike other sites, Indeed gives you full control and payment flexibility over your hiring. You only pay for what you need. You can pause your account at any time, and there are no long term contracts. And now Indeed's new way of matching you with candidates instantly delivers a shortlist of quality candidates whose resumes on indeed matching your job criteria, that you can contact the moment you sponsor a job making Indeed the only job site that can move as fast as you do. 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And I wonder if like the the you know, the language on that pick is like, oh, if it doesn't convey it's gonna the next year will be twenty twenty four and top you know, lottery protected or and then the next year after that it's gonna be you know, the second round picks. Like I guess we can talk about that now, Like do you think that do you think it goes farther than that? It can't because of their twenty twenty five commitment to Oklahoma City, So like that would be the risk on Houston's part, so you would need So you're saying twenty twenty two unprotected and then a twenty twenty four swap is what you would ask for In the Ben Simmons situation, Well, I you know you asked. I think I think you have to settle for protections whatever, because like you're not going to get a pick that's not protected on Houston's front. I just I don't think Philly, Philly does that so personally, I mean, I guess you could be concerned about Embiad's injury history and what would hard to do alone. I would be willing to if it allowed the Sixers to keep their twenty twenty three pick and you could do you know, if I could do Joel Embid or even just Ben Simmons, then an unprotected twenty twenty two pick for James Harden and then again plus the salary to make it work. I would actually absolutely do that if I was Philly, and this is this is Embid right or Simmons like, if you're talking your money Simmons, Okay, So I think because from Philly's standpoint, you know you're going to have James Harden through the twenty twenty one twenty twenty two season, and so there's less of a risk of giving up that unprotected pick that year. So this theoretically, are you proposing this with the idea with the knowledge we know now, or like this is a season from now when you realize they're not good enough, right, or that you need to change this core up. I'm viewing everything through this season's lens, like whether it happens tomorrow or and I guess if it's happening in the middle of the year, Phillies decided they're not good enough. Maybe that gets Houston a little leverage, but I don't know how much, because like when you look at the contracts and age of these guys, I really do think it benefits Philly no matter what. Yeah, And I think I think that that's where I'm at if I'm Houston, Like if I'm if I'm not getting the picks that I want or if I'm not getting the language and the picks that I want, I'm probably waiting a little longer because I think the deal is always going to be there. I really do. I mean, I guess it really depends on whether or not you believe that Simmons and embiad is a good fitting core that win a championship together. And I'm still, you know, I don't know, like like I think one of those two guys can be, you know, a core part of a championship team. I think you and I agree on that. I'm not sure if together, you know, just two non shooting pieces anymore. Like I don't think like that's why the Rockets did microball last year, right, because they couldn't have Capella and Westbrook on the flour anymore. I think in the modern NBA you need four shooters on the four period, point blank. And I think I think it's very hard to build a team if you your two star players can't shoot. And so I think if I'm Houston with that knowledge, I think my offer will get better if I'm waiting, and I think those picks or I can get the protections I want on those picks and the language I want and the year that I want if I wheel a little bit. Yeah, I think it probably helps them that Philly already traded its twenty twenty five pick, because Houston can't trade for an imminent pick with the possibility of it turning into seconds in twenty twenty four. Just because Houston has Philly has the obligation to okay see and so that makes it more likely that whatever pick they get is unprotected because Philly needs to make sure that it conveys by twenty twenty three because of that commitment to okayc in twenty twenty five. Yeah, yeah, I mean so like overall, like I like the framework for this trade, Like I think, I think what we're talking about semantics at this point when we're talking about picking a swap plus one of those players, basically right, Yeah, But like I think this, uh, the framework of this trade is pretty acceptable, acceptable on both ends. I think both teams probably do this. The weight is finally over. Football is back. You might not be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action at bet online. That Online is going the extra mile to make sure you can get in on every possible chance to win this season, from game spreads and totals to team player and coaching props. 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Yeah, so I'm glad you include these all unprotected because it was all like when people talked about this trade, right and like they made it seem like it like their Houston was going to do this trade for for dim Witty and Lavert, And that's not what this trade was about. It was always going to be about the picks, right like, like these guys aren't the fundamental pieces of a championship corps, Like I mean, like they're not gonna be Like I don't know, it really depends on how you feel about Carris Lavert. I I don't think he can be like the one of the two best players on jip team, right, Like, I think he's a nice player. I like him a lot. He shot like fifty percent true shooting last year. Like he's he's nice, he's a good player. I don't think he's like, you know, I don't think I don't think he's a building black piece. Yeah, I think so. If there's some similarities with the way the Pelicans handle the Lakers stuff where they got there would be like one cornerstone option, which was brandon Ingram to me, and then it would be Caroslavert in this situation. But that that's probably more of a stretch. And then you have some intriguing young guys like in Josh Hart and Lonzo Ball, but you're about to and I think Lonzo Ball is more intriguing than Jared Allen. But these younger guys are all nearing pay days and like Spencer did when he's older, but he's a player option for next season. And so what you're doing is you're betting on the predominantly let's say the one player here, which is Caros Lavert, because he's under contract for a while, and in brandon Ingram's case, he was gonna be restricted. YadA, YadA, YadA. And then you're betting against the good the team's future, that you're trading a superstar too, And that's what you're effectively doing here. For Houston, I think it's Caros Lavert and you want those picks. And what's intriguing to me about this framework if I'm Houston insofar as I'm willing to deal him, or I like Caros Lavert, who I think he's a really good passer, and the fact that he shoots so well and off the dribble threes. His true shooting percentage might be lower, but all the dribble threes are like v shot right now to help build around an offense. His fit with John Wall though, could be questionable, just like it's questionable with Kyrie and Katie because he needs to play off the ball. But I think he's on a good contract and a good player. But he's at that weird age twenty six where he's like not young, but he's not old. But you're betting on those picks. And the first of which here conveys when technically Kevin Durant, after Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, and James Harden all have their player options because they have those if I'm not mistaken, they're all twenty twenty two. They're all twenty twenty two player options, and so if like theoretically if they lose one of them or two of them, or if Kevin Durant's a shell of himself, like you're in a position to where now you have this unprotected pick where perhaps Brooklyn has lost one or more of its big three, and yeah, so like no, so like like what I was gonna say, is I understood what you were doing when you started with twenty twenty three. I still think if I'm Houston, like listen, you're not giving me any like foundational piece upfront, like straight up like none none of these three guys I view as foundational pieces. So I want those picks to even be farther out. If I'm Houston, I asked for twenty twenty four and beyond, or even if I've no doubt this, like I doubt I haven't, like even twenty twenty five, if you could get it right, like I think I think you start like, if you're Houston, you ask for those picks to be as far out as humanly possible as you can possibly make it go with Shawn Marks, right, and I think I think that's because that's the that's the offer, like that that's this whole trade is not centered around Spencer Dinwoody. It's centered around these picks. So if I'm Houston, I'm trading you one of the thirty greatest players of all time, h in his prime, uh, you know, a walking fifty win season, and James Harden. I want like a good healthy sum of picks back. So all right, so let's play this game. If they move it to if they start it in twenty twenty four with a swap and they're willing to do a twenty twenty seven unprotected pick, and now you've lost that twenty twenty three first, does that make the offer a lot more intriguing to you or is it still Hey, we'd rather just wait and see what happens with Philly. Yeah, so like, if Philly's on the tample, I'm taking that Philly offer anyway. But let's just say, like, oh, go ahead, I'm sorry, No, I'm sorry. We're like in like a vacuum. Like what we're talking about is like, you know, four picks, two of them being swaps, to him being unprotected, like in a vacuum that's an acceptable offer if those picks are far out I think and surrounded by these three players, Like I think it's gonna because I think these players are gonna be you know, pressed eat into the sun. Like what I mean by that is they're gonna be traded for first round picks as well. So these like Spencer Dimwoody, you could you know, buy default call them a first round pick because Houston's gonna trade him in the following trade deadline, like straight up, like he's not going The Rockets are not going to let his contract expire. The Rockets are gonna trade to It's a bit Dimwoody the following the following trade deadline if they do this deal, right, I mean sorry, oh no, I agree with you. I'm sorry, keep going. No. So, like if I'm Houston, like I like I with all that in mind, I just I think you would wait and see if Philly is interested and putting you know, Simons or and beat on the table. But if if they aren't, this is an acceptable offer in a vacuum. But we're not in a vacuum, right, you have to consider all these other offers, But this is an acceptable offer as long as it as long as that trade is starting in twenty twenty four, not twenty twenty three. So are you talking is there anything Brooklyn can do, Like let's say Philly stances, We're not dealing any one of them now. If we do, it will be at the beginning of March or closure towards the trade deadline, when we have a better idea of what our team is. Is there anything that Nets can actually do to make a trade go through before then? Probably not? So Like even if they were just like let's say the framework I have right now, it's twenty twenty three. It starts there, but they're also willing to include that twenty twenty seven pick. So now you've ended up with five first, three first and two swaps? Are you doing that? Maybe? I mean, I don't know like that, that's pretty far out what you're talking about twenty twenty seven pick. I mean, they might be a legitimate, like top ten in the lottery team by that point. And you know, I've no idea how far throughout these front office to scout. I don't I don't know how how good that draft classes. But generally, if you're getting a top ten pick back and a star trade, that's good. I don't know, Like I think I still wait on Philly just because, like I know, like Simmons is such a known quantity, like like you know what you what you point about, what you pointed out earlier when we're talking about the Sixers, and like him being still so young and still such a known quality quantity, Like I think that was a good point, and I think that's what makes him the most tantalizing trade piece. I think I still would wait till March. And I also like on Houston's end, I want to see how this team looks, and I want to know if there's a five percent chance I can keep James hard that's a good that is part of the calculus. You are, right, Yeah, so I and I think I think I think at that point, if you start the season off pretty well, like your leverage goes up. So I don't think there's anything Brooklyn can do the top the Sixers if the Sixers aren't throwing in, uh, you know, anything anything other than just picks, Like I think, I think at that point, you're just waiting go through Houston. Yeah, and there's nothing else the next can do beyond including that twenty twenty seven pick. Like that would be the like they include that, like that's what you can do, And I think what you could do. In Houston's part, I'd actually probably do it if I'm Houston, to be honest with you, just to bank it just just because you know it's a good offer. You just want to bank it in. If they include twenty twenty three and twenty twenty seven, I do it in a heartbeat, just because I think there's a chance this goes bust, like in some form by twenty twenty three, Like I don't think you need to go that far out, So that's why I would do it. I do get the argument, though, if you're Houston, you want to see if you can convince Harden to stay and and if Phillies string you along, I think you could take the stance of, well, if this brooken offer is here now, why won't it be there in March? Because what are the odds that they've outperformed expectations so much that they're not willing to make the deal. Yeah, and you're and you're talking about by the way, you're talking about controlling any of these deals, controlling a team's draft, like for four or five years. That's insane, like chances are, what are those picks are gonna be lotteries lottery picks regardless, like it just unless you're the Spurs, like like one of those picks are gonna be lottery picks. Uh. And it's like I think that that that's what makes this offers attempting, is because like you're you're guaranteed at least one lottery pick in any of those picks, probably twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six. I think Katie is still gonna be pretty good in twenty twenty three if they can retain him. But I mean that's a pretty good starting point. And I but that's all it is, if I'm using at a starting point. And I think I think this offer has probably already been pitched without you know, picks so far out, like I think they like they've already pitched dim Woody and Lavert. I'm sure, I'm sure those guys have already been pitched along with one pick. I mean they need Alan Dinwoody, I mean, Tori and Prince could be thrown in help to make the money work. But like this deal Alan Dinwoody, Cruz and Lavert, like it just barely makes the money work for Brooklyn, So like that Harden makes so much That's the other part of this is like like you have to include a lot of players functionally because Harden makes so much money, right, and so like I can't imagine that. I don't know that Houston's really interested in Jared Allen, but like you want him in this deal just because he's and that's another pick, another first pick, another first round pick. So it's like Dinwoody, Allen, and Lavert has been pitched. Maybe the fourth player is Prince as opposed to Cruise, but like, like the framework of this deal has been pitched, Like we just know that for a fact. Yeah, sure, And I think the only thing like that hasn't been pitched is I don't think what the Nets are offering is on protect. I think that they've definitely tried to play slick and protect these picks just so they can have the leverage later on to protect them and just up their offer. And that's Look, that's the risk Houston runs too, is that the offers could theoretically get worse if they don't play well and Harden becomes this malcontent and more of a distraction. There's risk on both sides. I think I don't think there's much more harm in them waiting, to be honest with you, but there is risk. Well, look, if you're training him in March, it's a year and a half of James Harden, it's a season and a half of James Harden as opposed to two seasons, and that certainly matters for some teams. Maybe that doesn't matter because we don't know how many teams are gonna come to the table, but like, there could be other teams that are just like, you know what, we're going to take this first round pick from twenty twenty seven or twenty twenty six off the table because you waited too long or you guys are worse off and Harden's like wants out anyway, so they do run the risk. But I think for the most part, if Philly's stringing you along where you know that Simmons are embid would be an option, potentially it's most likely worth waiting, which is why I won As we move forward, I'm really hoping to fuck you up, like I want you to just be mind blown in some form. But I think all these I'm looking at all these offers as Houston is considering them because they think that Philly's out of the question. So if you want to measure it against the Nets offer, I think it's probably the best way to do it. I don't think any of them, you know, I see one, maybe two that might potentially be better then like Philly's offer, but it's just because Simmons and Ebide are such known commodities. It's tough to beat that. So I think if you're moving him elsewhere, it's because you don't think that Philly is an option. Yeah, you're right, And I think, like, let me ask you a question, by the way, so like if you're the Sixers or if you're the Nets, are you trade for James Harden? If any of these two teams trade for James Harden, are they immediately favorites in the Eastern Conference to win to win the East? Like I feel like they are one of these. I don't know about Brooklyn. I just Kevin Durants come back from an achilles injury. I need to see it, like, and I'm not even trying to I want to see their defense too, for sure. Yeah, I mean, look, there's a look after after this theoretical trade for the Nets, like there's a chance that Brooklyn's best defender aside from Bruce Brown is Kevin Durant, which is probably an issue. Yeah, well, yeah, I guess you can have you know, DeAndre Jordan, you know, defensive Player of the Year Doc Rivers. DeAndre Jordan be a river enough to start over Jared Allen apparently too. Yeah, right, well, what a decision. What a decision by the Nets. They decide they basically parted ways with Kenny Atkinson because of that. I guess that's wild. Yeah, I think there's definitely other stuff, Like it feels like that was the like that was just the defining point where it's like he was starting Jared Allen and then DeAndre Jordan's in the starting line up the first game after Kenny Atkinson leaves. That's not a coincidence. Yeah, and and and you know, fundamentally, the reason we're talking about it, James Harden Trey right now is because the Stars have so much power in the league. This is also another example of that, right, Like they can just fire her coaches now, like that that's just the thing they can do. Like, no, we don't we want Steve Nash instead, we we don't want we don't want Kenny Atkinson making his own personnel decisions. That's just a wild place we're at in the NBA. Yeah, and it's look, I think people try like champion player empowerment, which for the most part is fine, but player empowerment really applies to maybe fifteen players in the league. Like that's the thing. Like when it comes to contract links, like, yeah, Marcus Morris can sign a one year deal if he wants to for a balloon payment like he did last season, but probably more like seven. And Katie's definitely one of those seven. Yeah, I mean, well clearly so I just looking at with it and a Kyrie they apparently consider one of those seven. That's why I said ten, because I don't think he's one of the seven best players and maybe impaired with Durant, it's different obviously, So are you ready to journey off the beaten path? Here? Let's do it. The next team up is Boston, and I think I start out by saying like they're not getting Jason Tatum because I think the whole point you do this if your Boston is to pair him with Jayson Tatum. It's like why Brooklyn probably doesn't dangle Kyrie Irving and talks for James harden Right, I agree, the offer would be Jalen Brown, Marcus Smart, Carson Edwards end or Grant Williams, a twenty twenty four first round pick, a twenty twenty five first round swap, a twenty twenty six first round pick unprotected, and at twenty twenty seven first round swap unprotected. Yeah. So like, if if this whole Boston thing works the way they wanted to, the only good pick here could be probably twenty twenty seven. And like, I think the Brooklyn offered tops this unless they're throwing in Jalen Brown, which I'm not sure if you have that in this document, Like if they have, if they throw in Jalen Brown, you're in the conversation. Yeah, that's what it's Jalen Brown, Smart, Edwards or Grant Williams and then four picks, the two unprotected in twenty four and twenty six, and then two swaps twenty five and twenty seven. And I think the reason this is one of those situations where I'm sure teams would haggle over protections on maybe the swap in twenty twenty seven, but because Tatum's so young, and Boston projects to still be so good by then you can probably get them to Maybe it's only like top three protection, or maybe it's just I have it as unprotected here, and so yeah, if you're throwing in Brown, you you might even be able to cut off a first round pick here. It might two three, It might just be like two first round picks in a swap, like I think that might be. Like, because I like Brown a lot, like, I think he could be, you know, maybe second third best player ONUND championship team at his peak. I'm not sure if he's there yet at all, but I but I really like him, and I think he's he's a nice player to surround a trade around. And I don't think he's you know, foundational player yet, but you know, I think I think he gets you in the conversation. He gets your foot in the door. I think I probably liked this as much as I like the Brooken offer. I'm not sure what you think about that, because we're fundamentally we're gonna compare all these trades to the Brooklyn offer, right, because that's the floor, right, And uh, I think I probably like this about as much as I like the Brooken offer. You like it, I just cut off the twenty twenty seven swap at your what you said, like, you could probably cut something off, So it would be you probably cut off early, right if you're Houston, that's where you would haggle over, you, you'd hagle over. We don't want that for twenty twenty four pick. We want the twenties twenty seven. Yeah, I'm thinking, like, you have leverage that you can if you're Boston, you have leverage. You don't have to throw on four picks. So you you're saying, yeah, I guess the sticking point would be. Let's say, so let's say you end up at two picks and a swap. If you're Houston, you want twenty twenty five and twenty twenty seven picks with a twenty twenty six swap, but they don't have. I think what the problem is, they don't have their twenty twenty six pick. Correct, So I think that's why I built it like this. I'll look really quick just to confirm, because we're all over the place here. They do not have their twenty twenty six. First, it's protected top four. But like, you can't broker a swap like that, so you would have to take the twenty twenty four pick, twenty twenty six pick, and then the twenty twenty five swap. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, you're right, And I still think I think I like this better than the Brooklyn offer, still with the two picks in a swap, because you're getting Jillen Brown. I think Jillen Brown is really good. And he's what he does is he's pluggin play like fringe stardom, Like he could be an All Star. Probably not in the West, but he could be. And he's proven that he can score bulk of his points within the flow of the offense and handle some really tough defensive assignments and so plug and play stardom. It's not the same as mega stardom, but I think it still really matters. Yeah, And I also think, like, you know, we're gonna see a lot of Jaylen Brown this year. And I think, you know, this entire offseason for Boston has been around Gordon Hayward, right, and the loss of Gordon Hayward. And I actually think there are two star players or like they're you know, you know, there their core scores, you know, you know, they just have more oxygen to do more things offensively, and I want to see how Brown benefits from that. I want to see how he does with an increased workload offensively. Uh, you know, Tatum is obviously gonna get his, but I I just I want to see what. I want to see how Brown does in that role because he's gonna need him to run pick and roll without Gordon Hayward there for sure, and with Kemba injured to start the year as well. Right, because if he products, she does really good in that role. I mean, like your offer gets better, right, And I again I will. I'm actually curious if like Boston is interested in James Harden. I think they should be, but I wonder if they if they are, see, I don't think I wouldn't necessarily endure. I'd be okay if that's the move, this is the move that they made where we settled. I don't know that you have to think about it because like James Harden, is that good? And look, but the problems is, like you've paid Kemba, you've paid Tam Like that's a lot of money committed to three guys. The flip side of that is if you have hardened and for some reason Kemba goes belly up for the last two years of his deal, Like it doesn't hurt you that much because you have James Harden. You're gonna feel it more if it's Jalen Brown and Marcus Smart there instead of James Harden. And again like like and we're gonna talk about this, I guess when we get to like Denver, Like is Denver on this list? No, So I was just gonna mention them as like I don't think just because Joki has the ball so much, like that's just one of the teams where I don't think it makes sense to give up Murray, Michael Porter Junior and a bunch of picks for James Harden. That would be the deal. It'd be Murray another salary, Michael Porter Junior in a bunch of picks. I don't think. I don't think they throw in Michael Porter Junior at all if they're throwing in Murray, like it's it's one of the other man, Like you can't have both again, like Houston is such in such a crappy spot, they can't demand two young aspects of that, Like if they do, we're talking that, we're talking about this trade as a steal, and I don't think they're I don't think right now they're in a position to get a steal. They're probably in a position to get fair value, like a decent Hall. But just because of Harden's age and just because of the mess he's causing right now, I don't think they can get two star prospects out of a trade. So I and then it has to be Murray just because of the money. It's I don't know, like you would have to get all sorts of weird if you're going with Michael Porter Junior's opposed to Murray because that's a twenty five million dollars salary difference. And listen, man, like you know me, Like we had this podcast. You were on my podcast last time, and I talked about like I would just get crazy if I compare Yo Kits with Harden for the next two years. Like you're like, but the reason, like right now we're talking about the Western Conference as like the Clippers and Lakers, and though now gets just made the Western Conference last year, right like we're not talking about them as seriously as we need to because we know, like fundamentally they probably have a ceiling with this score because they just don't have like a strong enough you know. Like second, like I like Jamal Murray a lott. I loved what he did in the playoffs this year. I'm not sure if he's like a superstar superstar player. I know for sure Harden is that guy. And I know for sure if you can pair Harden with Yoki, you get to the top of the Western Conference, like you're you're right there with the Lakers. I like, I like the Nuggets a lot more if they do that trade. So if so, then if you're Denver and you're making this trade, you know before ja Michael Green can be moved and stuff like that, you're it's basically Gary, Gary Harris, Will Barton, Michael Porter Jr. And then I would say two two picks and two swaps for James Harden. Yeah, I mean I I think if you're throwing in Murray, like yeah, yeah, it's fair. Well that was with Porter. If it's Murray, you're probably looking at Murray and like who else are you Murray? And like is it Murray and Barton? And then two picks and two swaps? Like does that get it done? You do not need to throw in that many picks you do not you're giving them Murray, right, Like, Like Murray Murray is probably the only other player on here that has shown like Simmons potential, right, Like, He's probably not as good as Simmons at his peak, as Simmons is just so damn good defensively, but he he gets to that fifteen level pretty regularly. So then the framework then that we would land on for Denver is you're either moving Porter, Harris and Barton because that's what the money would dictate, and then then those picks and then and then with Murray, it's less picks, right, two picks and a swap as opposed to two picks and two swaps, right, and maybe maybe even less than that, maybe even two picks or that were like like you know, one two unprotected picks instead of like one two picks in one spot. Like maybe you can get like that crazy because I again, like if you if you throw on a Star prospect, you're just with all these thrades, you just don't have to throw in as many picks. Yeah, Like that makes sense. While I get it, for Denver, I probably prefer to give up Porter Junior just because Murray's so I'm Porter Junior's good off the ball too, It's just that hardened we don't know, like Yogis needs the ball to some extent, even though he can play off it as well. And like we just haven't seen hard and play off the ball basically at all since arriving in Houston, and so it seems like more of a risk for them than a lot of these other teams. That's fair. Like I'm the talent guy, right, Like, I'm like, talent, talent, talent, figure it out later like that. That's that's how I always Y's rubbing off on you. Yeah, I mean That's how I've always thought about it, right, Like, it's just like he's definitely a heavy influence in the way I've thought about team building, Darl Morey, Right, And I think I think if I'm if I can pair those two top ten talents, I it's just two tanalizing, right. And I understand Murray's Murray's the younger prospect, and I understand that, you know, you don't want to break up what you have going there use the home ground talent. It's very hard to do. It's a very hard trade to do, especially coming off a Western Conference Finals appearance. But I still don't do their peak as getting to the NBA Finals. I mean, I don't know what. I'm curious to hear what you think, Like, do you think they could get to the NBA Finals in this Western Conference with this core? Uh? I think they could. It's just a lot harder this side of losing Jeremy Grant. Just their defense is taking such a hit and Harden's not going to help you there. And look, think ja Michael Green makes up some of it, not for what Grant can do, Like positionally, I don't want your Michael Green touching Lebron James or Kly Leonard or Paul George Fair. And look, the other thing with them is like if if for some reason you are doing the Michael Porter, do you hear trade, Like you're obliterating your wing depth because Barton and Harris are basically your only other wings and you need them essentially to make the money work. But you're also obliterating your headache, right, Like he's the guy that's just like what was this quote in the middle of the playoffs last year, like I need I need my touches or something like that, Like he said some something weird in a press conference last year during the middle of the playoffs, were like the Nuggets were having a bunch of success and they just lost one playoff game or something, and like he said something wild. I don't know what it was, but like he definitely seems like a guy if you if you could get like a star player out of him, you do it in a hard Yeah. Sweet. So, I just realized something that's an error with the Nets trade is that it would have to be a twenty twenty three The swaps have to be exchanged, so I have a twenty twenty four swap there. So I just wanted to clarify the Nets would have to give up a twenty twenty four pick, then it would be a twenty twenty five swap, a twenty twenty sixth pick, and then a twenty twenty seven swap. Keeping track of the Houston's pick commitments make this so difficult. They did trade for picks, but it's because they're those picks have protections on them as well, like you can't really fluts around like with those. So for anyone listening, I did catch that error. Yeah, okay, So, and by the way, I understand we were talking about Boston a little bit later. Like, but the reason I mentioned that is like I go into that with the same mindset with Boston, right, Like, if you can, if you have the opportunity to pair Tatum with Harden, like you you have to give that at least some heavy consideration, right, Like I think I think Tatum has a you know, really really you know, a really high potential, But I'm not sure if he has like best player on a championship team yet, like potential like that. That's like the other thing is controversial because he's done really well in the playoffs, but it's just I'm not sure if he has that yet. The Kemba injury too, makes it like if Kemba is fully healthy and you're not worried about his knees, maybe you're probably less likely to be interested in James Harden. In general, I think it becomes more intriguing because of the uncertainty now surrounding Kema on long term. Yeah, I think there's a reason they sign Tigue, right, Like, I think I think they knew some of this, They had some They also lost Hayward and like they let want Amaker go, they just needed another playmaker in general, right, But like I so like the Hayward thing. I don't know, maybe it's just me, Like I think the Hayward loss is getting a little bit overrated because I think these other guys need more touches, Like I would like to see these guys with more usage rate, especially Tatum Brown. I think where it deserves to be criticized that if they really could have had Doug McDermott, Miles Turner in a first round pick for Gordon Hayward and they were like, no, you need to give us oladiep or t J Warren instead. That's just why. But I would have taken turn of bloated trade exception out of this. So what it really depends on what they're heart capped, so they can't even like really use it to the folks tent right, right, Yeah, you're right. I forgot about their hardcaps. Whenever you do the sign and trades, you always like limit yourself a little bit in terms of what you can do mid season sucks. Are you ready to move on to our next team? Yes, let's do it. It's the Warriors, and the deal would be Andrew Wiggins, Wiseman, Kavan Looney, Eric Pascal, the Minnesota pick in twenty twenty one, and then two additional first round picks unprotected and two additional swaps that I think you would have to stretch out until twenty twenty six. So the question I have for you is how good is Minnesota going to be next year? They're not going to be good. I probably have them as one of the three to four worst Western Conference teams right now. Because here's the thing. Whenever you add Rubio Rubio, criticize them all you want. He has his He's just he's just good. Like he's just he always gives you a certain baseline of competency at the point guard level. Good, really good passer, pretty good defender. He's always going to improve your your your level there. And they just they just you know, drafted the first round pick. I I think they're gonna be better than what they were last year. I think the pick is still gonna be attractive, But I just wonder, like how good is it gonna be? Like Like how is it going to be a top five pick? Or is it gonna be a top ten pick? Like where do you see that pick landing? I think top ten for sure. I think it'll be closer top seven. Of you my estimation where I think there's a chance for them to be good if you just look at the rest of the West, Like that's where the this barterty is gonna come in. The only team that I can guarantee that they'll be better than right now is Oklahoma City, and like after that, it's maybe they're better than the Kings. Yeah, so I like this trade a lot better than like I if Minnesota does end up being that bad, I like this trade a lot better than Brooklyns well the others. What's interesting is if Minnesota's pick doesn't convey this year, it's unprotected in twenty and twenty two. Yeah, yeah, but you got to figure that they're they they've got to be a playoff team by then, right, Like because then because then at that point you're talking about, like the pressure is on to retain towns, right it is. But like what are you doing at that point because you have no money to spend and like, yeah, okay, you've you've landed a top three prospect from last year's draft, But is he making such an impact that he's bringing to the playoffs. I guess you have to flip him for a star, is what you're saying. By that point, then yeah, you do, you do? I mean, you have to keep talents, Like talent is that good, like you have to keep I don't know, I don't know what your your opinion is on Town. I'm super high on him. I understand they've been a losing team with him as their foundational player. I still think he can be like the second best player one championship team, maybe even first. Like he like what he can do as an offensive player as a big man in this league is just insanely versatile, and I like to keep him doing everything I can't take to possible because it's very hard to find a prospect like that, even as a number one pick in the draft. So, uh, yeah, the pressure is on at that point. But yeah, I mean, if you're talking twenty twenty two, if it doesn't convey and you're what you're really betting on, if you're Houston, is like they're still going to be bad at that point, which I don't know. I mean, like I I would think that they're probably not, but I mean, who knows they were that bad this year, right, So we'll see. But but but in general, I do like this trade better than the next package for Houston. So even with Wiggins involved, you're getting I think yea and three first and two swaps. Yeah, because that Minnesota pick could be end up being really good and it's a really good draft too, which like these other trades like that we mentioned have not talked about the twenty twenty one draft, which is the double draft, right or or like it's it's it's a really good prospect heavy travel, Yeah, because these other teams, if you're acquiring James Harden, like unless you have another team's twenty twenty one pick, like you're not, it's just not gonna work out. Like it's just the twenty twenty one pick. You're like, yeah, you could get it, but it's not gonna have a ton of value to Houston, right, Yeah, And like I think this one could, so I like it's it's one of those things where it's like you're doing this trade fundamentally for Wiseman and that twenty twenty one pick, and I like that. I like that version of assets better than what Brooklyn gonna offer, unless like you're talking about extending those Brooklyn picks, like even further than what we're talking about, which I don't think is gonna happen. But I like this trade probably better than the Brooklyn pick the Brooklyn rouge. So I think it's pretty I think that's pretty acceptable. If I would be absolutely here for having Hardened, Draymond, Green, and Steph on the same team, and then also throwing in whatever is left of Clay Thompson after next season as well, that would be that would just be a fun team to watch to me, Uh, yeah, it's which, like, so do you think do you think you like? So? I'm guessing at that point Clay plays the three right, Draymond plays the four. Who plays center? At point? I guess you find someone on the margins and you worry about that. Yeah, that could be. Like the centers are easy to approximate in general, so like maybe someone comes to sign with you, maybe Smiley each pans out, who knows he won't, he's terrible. This next trade, it's with the Clippers, and so Paul George is involved. I'm let this is happening under the guys that Paul George is going to stay in Houston. But it would be Paul George, Patrick Beverley, Lou Williams, Fiandukab and Jelly and then they don't have any first to give up, so they have three Detroit seconds twenty twenty six could actually be fairly high value seconds, but you are getting what would be a present superstar. But you're also, in addition to training James Harden, you're getting off of Eric Gordon's money as well. So you do this trade if you want to flip Paul George again, if you're Houston, I think, oh really, it's not like, Hey, we can win with Beverley Wall George. Mine will. Now Okay, let's be real. Let's be real, Like can you really build championship team as Paul George as your best player? Probably not? And like you're trading for him with this kind with if you're when you're trading Harden for him, you're basically talking about like, because he's at that point in his career, what is Paul twenty nine? Thirty Paul George is I think he's twenty eight. Paul George is twenty. Oh he's thirty. Excuse me, I was way off. Yeah, So like at that point it's like you're you're you're trading for him to be the best player on your team. And because I don't think you're you're gonna be in the fridgeency. You're you're gonna be in the fradgency sweepstakes if Paul George is your guy, Like, I probably turn this into a three teamer if you can to get more assets back. If you're if you're the Clippers and you really want James Harden and Paul George is you're is the guy, you're willing to move him for, like, you probably try to expand this trade. And you know, I don't know if if you're ready to expand this tree, Like I don't know if if you have a doc another doc out with like three team trades, but like that's what you probably do if you're if you're the Clippers, because what the Rockets have said publicly did they want future assets? Well, you know they want a young asset. You don't. You don't this trade give them that, do you know? What you could do is expanded to include the Warriors who get Paul George instead of Hardened and they're giving up Wiggins still has to be part of that deal, and then maybe you get Wiseman and Mini's pick like it then, like I don't know, it seems like you're still getting less in the net. You need someone who's gonna give up like a lot for Paul George because and if I'm going, if I'm Golden State, i just go directed the Rockets and get Harden. It's dead right right, So like that's the that's the issue here. Yeah, this trades and no go We're shooting this one down. Yeah. I've just figured it'd be interesting because everyone's telling you I'maul George right now. Miami's been another team that's mentioned, and look, I promise I have some smaller markets here. I just wanted to get the main and I'm going in alphabetical order of the teams, I thought, and we did talk about the Nuggets. To my defense, Miami's in a little bit of a pickle because they can't trade Bam at a bio because of the poison pill provision. It's just too hard with the amount of money that Hardened makes. And then Houston's cap situation, the deal would be and the first they can't trade a first round pick until two thousand and twenty five, so it would be Andre Gadala, Kelly Olenick, two aspiring contracts, Tyler Hero, Precious a Chewa, and then I'm actually deleting something because the swap doesn't work. That I've written down, it's a twenty twenty five first round pick in a twenty twenty seven first round pick, and that's just that's Miami's top offer. They can include Duncan Robinson as well, so let's just I guess they would have to if they want to get in the running. Is that what you would say? Yeah, this looks like a pretty fragile offer. I understand you're getting back Tyler hero. It really depends on how high you are on him, right, Like if you're really like like what was the damn labatary one on the low post and said that Miami thinks he could be like the next Devin Booker, Like if you're if Houston actually believes that, then yeah, that you do this trade. But I don't believe he gave me the next even Booker, like I like, I like Tyler a lot. That's that's a really high bar, right, So if they believe he could become that, you do this trade as presently constructed. I don't think that's enough picks. I don't think that's enough young asset, like I think like even Duck and Robinson, like you're probably trading Duck and Robinson too right to get right picks. Yeah, I'd probably say no unless you're adding more picks to this, Like, but you can't because like even Miami's like their obligations, Like, yeah, they could do a twenty twenty four swap or a twenty twenty six swap, but Houston doesn't have picks, like because they owe theirs to Oklahoma City in that one, which makes this just so unbelievably difficult to structure. So what do you think of this trade? Like, what's your opinion on this trade? You know, I wouldn't do it. You would have to think that Tyler hero is going to be the next Devin Booker, Like it would have to be that. You could wait, if you're holding hard and on through this year, and then maybe they're willing to make Bam available, like maybe they just finished the season shore Like then it gets a lot more interesting because now you're getting another player who's under contract for five years, but without Bam involved, I don't really see it being possible. Yeah, this next a Minnesota Like I know, DiAngelo Russell's Carl Anthony Town's best friend, but James Harden is better than d Low. So I'm just throwing out there the trade would be, is anyone really sure about that? I will say if I think Gerson rosas Minnesota's president, like he would be the guy to acquire town's best friend, like take a swing, give up that loosely protected pick the Golden State, but then turn around and trade him again, Like he would be one of the team executives to do that. But the deal would be DeAngelo Russell, Anthony Edwards, who was just selected number one overall, Jared Colver, a twenty twenty two first round swap, a twenty twenty four first round pick, a twenty twenty five first round swap, and a twenty twenty six first round pick for James Harden and I you also, I think, have to give up PJ. Tucker in this deal. If you want to keep PJ Tucker, I don't think that you're getting like that twenty twenty two first round swap or maybe even Jarrett Colver at that point, maybe Houston doesn't want Jarret Colver. I still think, Look, he was just drafted a year ago. There's a chance that he could turn into something, especially on defense. Yeah, so I love this trade on Minnesota side. But first of all, like it's it's God, it's gonna be really tough to construct a defense around Harden and Towns. But it's gonna be any harder than constructing a defense around Dealo with Towns. Yeah, I mean it probably isn't, right, but like that, that's the challenge that you're doing this trade because you want to win a championship at that point with Towns, right, that's why you do this trade. And I don't know, I really like that the due of Harden and Towns, that's a really nice starting point. But yeah, I mean, like from Houston's end, these picks are way too early because they're going out to twenty twenty six. Though, what do you want? It can only go out to twenty twenty seven? You want? You want less? Wait? Hold on my bad? Like that your your call thing was covering the asset seven bocks And that's how complicated this trade was. I went out to set number ten in the in the spreadsheet just an FYI, right, yeah, so man? That so, I mean, so what do you think of Jared Culver? I think he still has a chance. He's shot almost forty percent on three pointers on semi good volume over the last thirty games of the season. I think he's gonna I think he can actually the numberos haven't tried it. I see a path if he's really put on fifteen pounds like he says, he can guard once twos, threes and fours. And I don't think he's ever going to turn into this great off the dribble creator. But you don't if you have Anthony Edwards and Dianizel Russell on your team and John Wall by the way, you don't need him to be. And I know Houston's gonna go through turnover, but I actually liked this trade for Houston, and I would only like it for Minnesota. Harden says he's staying, which you know, I've I've never actually been to Minnesota, so I don't know if the club scene is like there. Maybe we need someone to take him around and show him around there. So I'm sure he already knows what it is. That's also fair. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, like it's it really Yeah, You're right, it really does depend James Harden wants to stay because you are at that point you're going from if you're Minnesota, you are going for a championship because you don't trade for James Harden and put him next to Carltown's if you're not going for a championship, and at that point you have to acquire every three D when you can't to make up for what this is, what this core isn't defensively like you you have to go get Robert Comington again, right, you have to go get You have to go get every three D when you possibly can to cut surround this core. It can, it can work, it can be really good. I guess you have to ask yourself whether that Cork can be better than the Lakers or the Clippers or the Nuggets. I think they're probably as good as the Nuggets, right, I think that Cork could probably be as good as the Nuggets. I'm not sure if they're better than the Clippers or Lakers. M see ye, look, I do think it comes close to meeting Houston's current criteria where it's like Deanzel Russell's probably as peak a fringe All Star, but he's also young, so and he fits by the way he fits beside John Wall Like if you're gonna keep that, I'm not saying they're trying to contend like John Wall and D'Angelo Russell like theoretically do make sense together. Yeah, I think at that point, if you're acquiring Russell, you're probably trading him too, like like because again, if you're not getting back or star prospect, you're going after picks with every asset you get back like those those as those players you get back are going to get flipped again in trade deadline situations of wanting a young potential star because you want to trade them again like they don't want to. I mean, I guess you do you viewed D'Angel Russell as a young potential star. I don't. Yeah, I guess that's fair. Yeah, Like I like Russell, Like, I don't get me wrong, he's a good player. I don't think he's you know, a building block piece like and like like I'm assuming like under rafel Stone there's gonna be a similar mentality to what it was under Daryl Morey. We're like they're trying to acquire building block pieces point blank, and they're trying to be a championship team again at some point. Again, So I don't think Russell gets you, you know, very far. The flip side of this still is, though you're getting Anthony Edwards, Cover another two picks and swap another two swaps. Yeah, but what I'm saying is like you're doing this trade for those assets and you're flipping Russell. Yeah. I don't know who would be interested in Russell necessarily, but I do think he would be movable. So yeah, I don't I don't know what value you get for him, but you could stills had a third team that might want him. Yeah, Like I like this, this pick is for Anthony Edwards, Jared Cover and those picks and swaps. It's not for it's not for Dangel Russell. I don't think X oh, go ahead, it's it's probably on par with the Brooklyn trade, I think. Yeah, I would say it's like right there because D'Angel Russell and carros Lavert. I would probably be higher on caros Lavert longer term, but it's like not, it's still pretty close. Yeah. Caros Lavert's contract is a little bit more attractive, but not much. I mean, like I got, I would say a lot more attractive. What is it ahead, I'm sorry, I think it's like three years and under sixty million dollars contract, so it is it is more truck I don't know why I thought it was more. But three years and fifty two point five for Casus Laverza post like three years and ninety something for Delo fair enough. Yeah, I like the book and trade a little bit better. But this is not bad. But I but again, like I don't, I think Houston probably does the deal with those two teams first, you know, the primary should what should we name those two teams? Like, I guess it's like the East Coast teams. I think they do a trade to the East Coast before they do a trade to the Timberwolves. And I don't think the Timberwolves are necessarily hell bent on trying to win a championship right now, right at this moment. That's also fair enough my next team. So there are two different versions of this trade. I'm trying to go buy the Rockets criteria if they want a young star. I probably I wouldn't do this trade if I were the Pelicans, But this is the trade I have. They get James Harden for brandon ingram Kyra, Lewis Nikkil Alexander Walker, a twenty twenty three first round swap with the Pels, who have the option to swap with the Lakers that year, a twenty twenty four first pick, a twenty twenty five first round pick, because they're slated to have they can have as many as three that year, so they don't the Steppian role isn't going to apply here for them, And then at twenty twenty six first round pick, I'm not doing that if I'm New Orleans. Like, maybe you're like, oh, you know, Harden and Zion and Steven Adams like punch it, like that makes us a contender, But you're just like, what Brandon Ingram is your wing depth right now? And I just don't if you trade him, Harden is way better. But you have to be really confident that Zion Williamson is already going to be an All NBA type player. Yeah, I don't. I don't think. I don't think the Pelicans do this. But if you're used and you absolutely touched on this deal, oh, this is probably the second best deal on the board right now. The other version of this is Houston is willing to take longer term assets and extra picks, and they're just deciding to bottom out, so they're not viewing necessarily. Yeah, some of the players are long term pieces, but they're just doing this because I mean you'll see in a minute, Eric Bletsoe, this is for them. Me. Lonzo Ball, who would be a restricted to free agent next summer, is an extension eligible now. Jackson Hayes, Kira Lewis, a twenty twenty two first round pick, a twenty twenty three first round swap. Again, the Pells can swap with LA twenty twenty four first round pick, twenty twenty five first round pick, twenty twenty six first round pick, and a twenty twenty seven first round pick. It'd be more favorable of the Pelicans or Milwaukee's. So the way New Orleans Is picks are set up, they can give they can technically give up first round picks in those four straight years, like without it being a swap. Yeah, so this is just chasing that bad like it's so I think what we're finding as we go through this list is if you're if you don't have a star prospect, you're just gonna have to table the trade with picks, right, And I think I like Lonzo Ball a lot. I like Jackson Hayes a lot. They're not you know, star prospects. They're they're probably more complimentary players on you know, pretty good teams. Yeah, it's not bad. I don't I don't hate this. Yeah, if you're Lonzo, Ball is tough because you have to pay him and you have John Wall already. I don't know how I feel about that. Jackson Hayes, I think you found your backup center behind Christian Wood and that's fine. He's cost controlled. And look, maybe Lewis is someone but like that you can help him. Look, you're gonna have Ball, bletso Lewis and Wall on the same team. Like, there's another move that has to be made there somewhere, most likely with Ball or I just I just think at that point, like we talked about this on my podcast, Like, I don't think the Rockets did the John Wall trade for John Wall, right, Like, I think it's easier to bottom out with him than Russell Westbrook is where we ended up great. Yeah, And I think I think they're trying to recuperate his value this year so they can possibly flip it and pill flip them in you know, the next season or maybe on the third year when it's expiring contract. But I don't think. I don't think you do any of these trades with with any thought to the current roster and right and other than Christian what Christian? What's probably the only future piece on your roster? And in New Orleans' case, like, I don't know what the last one we talked about Blatzo, Ball, Hayes, Lewis, and then it's it's legitimately five first round picks in one swap, Like I guess you're doing it for Lewis and the five picks and the swap, like and if you want to say, maybe Hayes, I don't know if you're even necessarily doing it for Ball, but I think you could probably get more value for Ball or maybe you view him as hey, Ball and Lewis is our backcourt of the future, like if that's something, So there's a lot of value there, if you're willing to suck up like the the wonky roster makeup, and if you maybe could set up other moves. I don't know that Letso could be moved, but you're you're kind of stuck with Wall, and then how do you work out, you know, a backcourt in that situation. But I actually don't. If I'm the Pelicans, I don't You would have to be confident that Zion, Ingram and Harden get you two, and we're assuming that Harden wants to stay in New Orleans. That's just what we're assuming. You have to be confident in that being your big three, you have Adams as well. You would still have Josh Hard and Niki Alexander Walker, and you'd still have other picks to move if you wanted to make other deals. But like, you need to be confident if you're giving up that much value, I think it amounts to giving up let's just say, I mean, it's just a ton if you viewed Ball, Hayes, and Lewis as all first round picks, like let's say low end, this becomes an eight pick deal. Yeah, listen, Like this really depends on how good Zion is next year, right, Like, they're not doing this trade right now, for sure, they're probably doing this. If they do this trade, it's probably next summer. And I'm assuming at that point you see Zion as like a slam dunk can be the best player on a championship team. And at that point it's like, Okay, we can't waste this prime. Let's go, let's go for it. Right now, It's very Lebron James as situation, and yeah, then you probably do this trade because that's the all you're sacrificing. You're right, you're sacrificing so much to do it, but it is you know, if you get Zion like and if you get Zion like as as like a top fifteen player next season like which I don't know, Like I don't know. I don't know how much you do that on the table. But if that is on the table, then possibly you do this trade. I don't think it's you sniff around. Yeah, I don't know if it's on the table next year. I would say at least a year from now. But look, you you do have atoms. It's like Adams and Zion and like Josh hard like you do and JJ Reddick is still there, like that team could still be really good. Like Harden, like we said, is gonna help punch your ticket the close to fifty wins. And I really love Brandon Ingram like I love his game. Yeah, we need to see if the off the dribble three is for real, but I think his efficiency is for real. And so look, you're he's gonna have more. He was pretty bad on defense this past year. But if if Harden's taking over some of the ball handling, he controller a lot more of the burden than Ball and Holiday combined. So that's giving Ingram like like energy to expend on the defensive end. For want of a better way to phrase it, that's a really balanced offensive attack, I think. And the Ingram deal, if the Pelicans were trading him, it would have to wait just in case anyone was wondering until his trade was like, until he's eligible to be traded. Since he signed that new deal the next time, I don't think they do that trade. The Ingram trades and Noga for for New Orleans, I think the second trade is more likely for sure. And I think, look, I think that's an attractive package for like taking out Brendon Ingram and replacing him with like you essentially took out Brendon Ingram and the Keel Alexander Walker and replace him with Bletzo Ball and Hayze, and you were still able to make the deal like semi attractive because of the extra picks that were included. You're doing the process at that point. I think if you're Houston, yeah, I mean you have you have a pick out to twenty, like an actual pick out to twenty twenty seven that you know you're getting. That opens up all kinds of options. My next team is the Knicks, and so you're not getting a star in this deal. It's just not happening. I did it. So what you are getting, you're giving up James Harden, but you're also giving up Eric Goreon's money in this one as well, and you're taking back Julius Randall, who only has a partial guarantee I believe, for four million dollars in not this season, but the following season, the last year of his deal. So you're saving a ton of money there since Gordon has two guarantee years after this one left on his deal before that final non guaranteed year. And yeah, so that's why Randall's in there. It helps make the money work. New York does have cap space to spare, by the way, I think it's like twenty million or something. So that's why this deal the money is lopsided because it works. But it's Randall, Barrett Toppin, Robinson Knox a twenty twenty one first round pick, unprotected, twenty twenty two first round swap, twenty twenty three first round pick twenty twenty four first round pick twenty twenty five first round swap. And the reason the picks are back to back is because the Knicks have dallas Is pick in twenty twenty three, so they can if they're gonna keep as long as they have one first round pick on the books, so they can trade both twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four and do it that way. I'm curious as to what you think about this package, knowing again that the Rockets are getting out from under Gordon's money as well, I have a headache, Like Leon Rose, if you're listening to this podcast, which I'm not sure if you are, but if you are, do not do this trade. And look and the other thing is you've talked a lot about how Houston wants the distant first round picks. I think they want. I think they want imminent pick from the Knicks in this scenario, because what's left with James Harden and New York after this deal, Like there's I know James Harden is really good, but like we don't. Like New York Is could still feasibly be a high lottery team next season. And so that's why, like we could push the picks out if that's what you want to do, Like there's a way to structure it. No, No, I'm talking about from New York's angle. Do not do this trade, like like that's that's what I'm talking about, Leon Rose, Please do not do this trade. And like unless they really feel confident that they can land someone in free agency with the leftover cap space that they well I'm not even sure, like what does their books look like next year? If you do this trade, you would so you would essentially have Hardened and who else would be guaranteed? Harden would be the right Harden Emmanuel quickly Eric Gordon would be your only guaranteed contracts on the books. But the problem is is like Harden, you know, harder than Gordon, just make too much money to have you could you would still have space because together they make about sixty So like there's a path to it, it's just really hard because you have to trade pretty much everyone. I don't know, like like I don't know. To be fair, they wouldn't need to trade anyone really because the only other player on the books would be guaranteed money would be Jacob Efforts at this point, So like you you think that they probably want to keep Emmanuel quickly, but makes such a moment so they could have cap space, but like they're bare bones after this, I'll say this, you do this trade if it's like Hardened talks to someone in fregency next year and they planned to go to New York as as a as a pair, right, Like, okay, let's let's let's us both go to New York and like you Hardened to Harden to ask the Rockets for a trade, and that that free agent goes to New York as a free agent, and then it makes sense. Then then New York do this trade. Right. Let's not set this in stone though, So if you're looking, you're looking at the package the nick are giving up. What is if Houston's doing this deal. If you think it's attractive enough for them to do what can be taken out of it, and Houston would still do it, like to make it more reasonable for the Knicks, because we're not trying to just fleece the Knicks here. This was just my starting point because Harden's it's tough to value their young players because I don't look at Barrett, Toppin or Robinson as like future stars. I don't. I don't have no idea what Obi Topping's going to be. I dig like so by the way, let me let me just be very clear. The way I value young players is like I look at their first year in the NBA. I do not watch college basketball, right, so I look at what they are that first year in the ABA. Obi Toppin hasn't played yet, so I don't know what he can be. Yeah, like Barrett can be something I don't know. Like so like I like this trade for Houston if they're doing it right now, because there's no assurance that New York it's a second star next summer. If you're doing it next summer, that means they for their problem. They had. New York's doing this with the assurance that they're getting somebody else. Right, if we saw this trade pop up in the middle of yeah, for sure next year, like something's up and there's you would have to pick up Mitchell Robinson's team option to make it happen. At that point, Who knows if Kevin Knox would even be Like at least now he's still a little bit of a mystery box. But after two years, even though he's been bad. So if I would do it now. I'm not sure if I would do it later. This is something this is one of those rare trades that aren't Brooklyn or Philly that I would do now. So if okay, so let's say the Knicks took out the twenty twenty five first round swap right now, are you still doing it? Probably not? Like so they can't take anything out of this deal, yeah, because they just don't have like again like like unless I mean, you probably know about more about Obe Topping than me, because he is he like a star prospect. No, he's look, he's he can really shoot the three ball, and he's gonna do I think some damage on the last as well. But I think he's gonna be a terrible defender long term. Like, you can't take you can't take away into these any of these prospects if you do in this trade, well could you okay, so go with me on this. Could you take away Mitchell Robinson knowing that you have to pay him after this year and you already paid Christian Wood? Yeah, but they could let they could. Actually, I'm not sure if they would want to let him walk because at that point they're an asset accumulation road, but they're they're also in this trade. They're also dumping Eric Gordon, right, correct, So that's that's kind of the swap you're making. You're you're trading whatever Robinson's contract is going to be next year as compared to what Eric Gordon's contract is going to be next this year. Uh so you're saying take out Robinson or take it? Like, are you willing to give anything any of the assets that are here? That's not I don't like it. I think I think Barrett, Randall and Knox have to be included as the tangible assets. Are you willing to give any of the remaining pieces back in this deal and still doing the trade? N Houston obviously wouldn't be like, oh, you're giving us too much, but you and I trying to figure this out to where okay, we're not trying to absolutely screw the Knicks and maybe it's still I still wouldn't recommend they do this, but can anything be taken out on their end? For Houston is still say you know what, we'll do this deal. We're getting off Gordon's money and we're still getting at minimum even if you take out the swap, like you're still getting three picks and a swap. If you're taking out Mitchell Robinson, you're still getting three picks and two swaps. That's what that's what makes it still attractive. Right, So, Look, if Eric Gordon comes out and has like a really good season next year, then his contract isn't viewed as like a dumpable contract. It's something that you you you have to get rid of. Right. But if if he goes out and has like a season similar to last year, which I assume like if Houston is doing this deal next summer, that that means Eric Gordon probably had a bad year, then then you know, this trade, this trade is still attractive next year. I guess. I guess maybe at that point you can probably take out a swap if you're taking away one of these contracts. Yeah, I agree. Okay, so let's just we'll delete that twenty twenty five swap and it's uh Randall Barrett topping Robinson knocks a twenty twenty one first, a twenty twenty two swap, and then two first in twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four. Yeah, it's just like it's it's a huge gamble if you're Houston, right, I don't like it for either team, Like it's weird. If I's that someone else in place already, maybe I feel a little bit better about it for them. I think Houston's still getting the better end of this here though, just with the the at least the upside where it's like, hey, Barrett, Toppin and Robinson still have a ton of upside, and then you're getting three additional first round picks, and look, the Knicks picks even in all of those picks could technically be good just because you don't know hardness all that they have then at that point, because that's the gamble, right, That's why this is kind of a challenge straight, right, This is challenging New York's free agency, right like, like you're you're betting that they can't get somebody else, correct, and in New York is betting that they can't, which is which is really interesting from a basketball perspective, From a Houston perspective, you don't give a shit what it means for the NBA, right Like at that point, it's like, we're we're trying to do what's best for our team, and you're doing this straight to dump Eric Gordon I Stone, I'm still not sure if I view this is the best trade on the deal, like as one of the better trades, and probably wouldn't do it. I don't like it for either side particularly, but I do think it's at least like, Okay, this is framework where you could understand why the Rockets would do it, and the Knicks are always star hungry. So then giving up the farm for a top five players like not you know, out of character? Right, this is like clutch sports, like getting KCP a max deal the summer before because they have a feeling that helps warm you know, like Lebron James Camp right like that. That's it's a very similar to that. It's like it's like doing a favor, right. Okay, So this next one is Portland. I have CJ. McCollum, Zach Collins, Anthony Simons, Gary Trent Jr. And then two picks and two swaps. It's a twenty twenty three and twenty twenty five swap and then twenty twenty four and twenty twenty six picks. I kind of think Portland's giving up too much here. Yeah, I mean, like that's why I'm thinking about it, because it's like, see, you're you're putting Dame and Harden on the same team though, and I like that from like an offensive perspective, I think those two can actually work pretty well offensively. Defensively, it's gonna be really tough. I don't know, I probably you know, defensively now though, because they have Nurkic, they have Derek Jones Junior, they have Robert Covington, Like they could feasibly make that work. I'm just wondering, like what probably needs to be taken off like for them, because like if you took Gary Trent Junior out of this, are you still doing it? If you're Houston, Yeah, probably because you're getting CJ McCollum, and I think you can. You can you can probably flip CJ again even with this contract. I think can probably flip CJ again with his contract might be a benefit because he's playing so well and I think his game will age well, like having him under contract for the next four years. Like That's that's my question is do the Blazers do this right? Because I'm not sure, Like I have so many questions about that defense, but offensively it works, So I'll if I were the Blazers and so this is what we have now is CJ. Collins, Simons, two picks and two swaps if you're taken out Gary Trent, right, yeah, I mean that's also another reason why the defense might work, because now you haven't someone else who holds up on defense and Gary Trent Junior staying there. If you said to Portland that they could keep the twenty twenty three swap or Simons, I would do this deal in a heartbeat if I'm Portland, and I don't think I would hate it at that point. For Houston, because you're assuming you could get more value for McCullum, I'd probably be more willing to let Portland keep Simons and go McCullum column Collins two swaps and two unprotected picks. And look those the swaps and picks are running from twenty twenty three through twenty twenty six. Yeah, because at that point you're basically doing the sam press. Do you what CJ. Mccomb's contract, right, You're going to keep flipping it and flipping it and flipping it and eking out as many first round picks as you possibly can from that series of transactions, and in the interim like you have time to do it too, because he's under contract for so long and in the interim, like CJ. McCollum can play next to John Wall. Yeah, it's true. I don't think Houston does any of these trades thinking about what the fit is next to John Wall, Like I know, we keep getting back there. I don't think Houston thinks about that that much. Like I don't know unless John Wall is like really freaking good next year, which I mean, I think you have to give it some thought because I'm just not sure what you get for McCollum, Like if we're setting out a third team, I just don't know what you necessarily get for him. Like is you know, are the Warriors willing to give up Like let's say they give Wiggins contract and then like James Wiseman and then you have to do other like ways to make the money work. I don't know if they're giving up Wiggins, Wiseman and the mini pick for CJ. McCollum. I don't know if that's something that they do. Yeah, I don't. I don't. Like I think you don't even need to make it a three team, or you can just trade you know, McCollum later, so you would do McCollum, Collins, two unprotected picks and two unprotected swaps. I'd probably need at least one of Trent junior assignments, all right, so we'll leave Simon's in there. Yeah, you do it. If I'm Portland, I think about it. Yeah. If if you're Portland you don't like I'm not sure. If I'm not sure about it from Portland's and it really depends on if you're confident you can construct a championship caliber team around those two guys. I think I think offensively you can. Defensively it's really tough, but I think you know, if you're off, you're up for it. If if you're willing to acquire every single possible defensively, and you already have Roco, you already have Gary Trent possibly if you're keeping, if you're giving up Simons, it's not a bad starting point at all. I'd assume that's the goal for Portland. I'd assume they want to championship with Damian Lillard and James freaking Harden like he's an upgrade over McCollum because of his and I don't know that he's worse, he's not. Maybe as he ages it'll be worse on defense than mccollumn, but I think you could probably have an easier time of hiding him because you could put him on bigger players, whereas you can't do that with McCollum. Yeah, I hope I'm at least making you think about these and that they're all Some of them are just too far out there, But I hope this is at least a good critical thought. I mean, the Lasers one, I never really thought about it. This is definitely something that's out of the box and interesting and possible because again, it's not about CJ McCollum. It's about what can you get from CJ McCollum later you're doing the Presti right, right, I think, I think, I really think what Sam Presty did this offseason laid out the framework for what other ggms might do in the future with that kind of a contract. If you just keep flipping contract after contract and getting first round picks, as long as you don't get a bad contract back in that series of transactions, you can just keep going and doing it to its conclusion, which is really fascinating. I wonder if other teams try doing that, that'll be interesting. To monitor is a copycat league. I have two more teams for you. But if you can believe it or not, so the Spurs, this would be such an anti Spurs move, not just making a trade in general, but making a trade for I feel like Harden isn't really He could definitely work on the Spurs, but I feel like he's not a Spurs player, maybe just the way he carries himself. I'm not even trying to insult him. It just feels like, Greg, did you view LaMarcus Aldry just as a Spurs player like a couple of years ago. I mean, I don't know what what what is the Spurs player? At least I feel like they're low profile and James Harden is just the opposite, right, Possibly, Yeah, so this would be the anti Spurs move. But I actually don't hate this deal for Houston. It's the Spurs would trade Damar who's expiring, and you could view him as like what you want. I for some reason, Houston's trying to remain competitive this year, or they think they could flip him for a worse contract because he's making twenty seven million and if a team wants to get off some other money, maybe they're willing to get an asset back. Like that's how I think that's what you view out of Deamarta Rosen is, Hey, he's coming off the books, and we can either use them to like take back money that's attached to assets, or we just let him come off the books, because I don't think he's He's still good, but I don't think he's like all of a sudden pushing you to the playoffs. So it would be De Rosen, Jante Murray, Derek White, Lonnie Walker, Keldon Johnson, a twenty twenty three swap, a twenty twenty four first round pick, a twenty twenty five swap, and a twenty twenty six first round pick. I don't think either team does this trade. The Spurs just aren't gonna do it. You wouldn't if you're Houston, you wouldn't do it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's just like, first of all, like I don't think they can do this because I don't think like James Harden wants to go to the Spurse right like I like I because I don't think they're a contender even if they acquire him, Like I think they'd be a very good team because James Harden has that capability. I mean, you would have LaMarcus Aldridge, James Harden, Rudy Patty Mills. You would actually still have Devin Vassell in this scenario, Jacoperty, I don't think that's a championship contender fair enough. I don't think that was the I just wanted to include as many teams as possible. That's I don't necessarily love it for either team either, but they and he's under contracts for four years sixty four million, Derek White, you have to pay soon, but he's still really good. You're getting two other problems. It actually so from my perspective, and I had Tucker going to the Spurs here to make the money work. What you could theoretically do is if Houston for some reason, why LaMarcus over to mar they could do that. So that's something I consider. I do think that the Spurs in this scenario are probably giving up a touch too much, and if the Rockets still aren't interested in how it's built, then there's just no way to make this work. Because I think that the Spurs, like one of those first round assets I think needs to come back. Yeah, I think I just think for the reason Houston doesn't do this trades because they are just better trades out there that we've already discussed. Yeah, and I'm just curious. Look, I feel like the value using gets for Harden could theoretically wind up being less than what we're giving up here. It's just Hardens, Like you don't necessarily see a top three player in his prime traded like this, Like it just doesn't, Like it didn't never happened with Lebron, It never happened with a d they left in free agency, and so like you never got and Anthy Davis wasn't you know, Anthony Davis was close to this level. But like Hardened, Anthy Davis isn't fifty wins on his own. Harden is. And that's what makes this so difficult. Yeah, yeah, and it's it's like he's historically great, like like like I always I've been telling rockets of Vans this for like the past three years, Like, yeah, he has his words right, but appreciate what you're watching, Like, just understand how good he is in the context of NBA history, Like just from an offensive perspective, one of the greatest players of all time and as a total package, probably one of the thirty greatest players of all time, right, Like, I just think he's so good. He's thirty one years old, two years remaining on his you and you can't you can't trade that guy for a bag of chips. You just can't. No, uh, if they hold on to them too long, like this stretches out into next season and where's viewed as an expiring contract, like that's gonna be a fundamental failure. On Ramona Showburn said it like like perfect on the jump, Like if you mess this up, it's a franchise crippling trade because you don't have the opportunity to load up on assets like this every day. Right, Even teams that are trying to rebuild, they just they don't get that headstart like this, right because normally teams are trying to rebuild are coming off a window in which their stars are aging. Harden is not aging enough to where like you can still get plenty of value back and and I think I think you can't mess that up. Otherwise you're just you're just gonna kick yourself in the foot about it forever. Like think a thing about the Spurs, right, like like like they did not squeeze as much value as they possibly could for you know, that was why what are the worst trades ever? I think just at the caliber of play Eric why is and what they coupled them up them. Yeah, they're gonna be dealing with the fall off from that. They're still dealing with the fallout. I don't know how long it lasts. They're lucky that they have some promising players in place, but it's like Damar and Jaka, Peerdle and Kelton Johnson for Kauai. It's not it. Yeah, that's the other day. It would have been harder to make the deal work because of the money. But like then something else need, Like if you're getting to that point where Danny Green is a literal throwing you've done something wrong on our seed. Come on, like you gotta step it up here. Like they pandered too much to Popovic's timeline. I think that's what it was. Like they wanted to remain in playoff contention and that was a mistake. You can't if you don't have another top five play Like it's it's a warrior situation where okay, they knew Kevin Durrett was leaving. Essentially they had these other stars in place, you didn't have any one of the caliber of Steph still there after Kawila, if you didn't even have anyone of the caliber of like Pete Draymond at that point, I like LaMarcus Aldridge, but Pete Draymond was better. You could even Pete Clay is better than LaMarcus alt which is close. But you definitely didn't have anyone of STEP's caliber. So that's just I were building a team for nineteen ninety two, and it was just a horrible decision all around. Like I, Kawhi had a ton of leverage, and he was making it really ugly with the with the stuff he was doing with his uncle. But it's just you have to you have to hold out for a better deal than that. I'm sorry. Like the Spurs, I realized they're a really nobs culture and they don't They may not have the stomach to you know, have a contankerous superstar around the locker room, but you you have to hold out for a little bit better than that. I'm sorry. It's just and I think I think they limited themselves because that as you as you said, they were looking for win now trades and they should not have done that. No and if they wanted to do it despite the Lakers like that was another failure on their part as well. This is the last team and it would have to be done mid season when Fred van Fleet's trade restriction is did, and so it's gonna be the Raptors. It is hardened for Fred van Fleet. Norman Powell, o Gianna Noby, who I just want to point out is ridiculously good. I just wanted he might be the best on ball wing defender in the NBA right now, aside from like an engaged Kawhi Leonard. I'm just saying it's possible. And then a twenty twenty three first twenty sorry, twenty twenty three first round swap, a twenty twenty four first round pick, twenty twenty five swap, and a twenty twenty six first round pick. So again the two picks and two swaps setups. I like how you're having to edit this on the flight because you found that one mistake. No, it's hang up Toronto, like, do not do this trade? Well, actually I don't. Look James Harden, Kyle Lowry, Pascal Siaka, Matt Thomas is still there. It's such a massive hault man like that's like if Houston gets this package back, we are praising them for the next like two weeks. So you're looking at it as they were, like, yeah, Fred van Fleet's young enough. So like, could you remove the twenty twenty five swap or the twenty twenty three swap and still get this done? Yes? Absolutely, You're you're giving up Ananobi Powell and these picks like it's it's it's a no brainer. Could you remove one of the actual first round picks? So are you protecting these picks? Because I think you have to If you're twenty twenty six, they probably haggle over protections. You just deleted twenty twenty six, I believe, unless I'm mistaken. No, No, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't touch the Oh I don't know what happened there then, So no, I know you're saying, did I did I rhetorically delete the pick? Well, I'm just so what is so? All right? So the baseline package here is Powell, van Fleet and OG in part because you need to make the money work and OG has to be included anyway. So Powell's going with van Fleet and OG. What what are the picks that you do this trade if you can heavily protect these first round picks, That's what I would say for Toronto, Well, twenty twenty four has to be unprotected, and then twenty twenty six, let's say it's top let's say top seven. Yeah, all right, so let's say top seven on that. And then do both of the swaps need to be there in twenty twenty three and twenty twenty five. Yeah, I don't know if they both have to be there. I think I think I think you can get rid of the twenty twenty three swap. Let's see and you could probably Yeah, that's probably enough. I would Again, you have to know that Harden is staying, like, this can't be. We're gonna play it out for two years. In a Kauhai situation, you've won your title, like, you can't handcuff your franchise this much because you have Pascal Siakam was really good now, but James Harden and Pascal Siakam, and you know Kyle Lowry's aging, but you bring him back on a cheaper deal after next year. He works with such a great Yeah, it's and look, you still have Malikai Flynn. People like that draft pick. Karen Davis is It seems like it might be a terrible human being, so I'm just not going to consider him. Matt Thomas, though, is good. I really like Chris Bouche. You have Aaron Baine. I think that team is a contender immediately. And while you've taken yourself out of the Yannie sweepstakes, you still have the potential to like do other stuff. Like your books are still they're they're not they're not clean, but like you're guaranteed contracts after this season if you make this trade. Are Banes I think stretched into there. He only get a one year deal. He's a player. Oh no, he's a team option. So your guaranteed contracts if you're doing this are Siakam and that's Malachi Flynn and James Harden. So you know, I'm gonna give you your props. I think we legitimately found a real third wild card team here in Toronto. I really do. I like this trade. Alat Verbot Teams, I will say you have like seventy four seventy five million committed to Siakam and Harden and then Malachi Flynn's like your books are basically clean, plus your first round pick. So like eighty million dollars of your payroll is gone to like four players, and then I mean you're gonna keep there's other ones you're gonna keep, like they should be keeping based off how he's playing Matt Thomas. So you're not gonna have like real cap space. So you're out of the honest exception though, right yea yeah, yeah, and you'll still actually you would still have the non tax pyramid level exception, like you could keep be like, hey we'll keep Bains, We'll keep Bouchet, and you would still have your non tax player mid level and you can get someone really solid just around that core with. Yeah. I love this trade, like from from both ends because I don't think you I don't think Houston's getting robbed here either. They're getting Fred lanvleet O g N and Obey Norman Powell and these picks. They're protected picks, but you're getting good but you're getting good assets. Yeah, I mean twenty twenty four unprotected. We'll say the swap in twenty twenty five is unprotected as well, Like maybe you give yourself top one protection there, like just to safe guardment. Besides the kind of dude that just goes for it, Like we know that now, so I could really like, I really think like this is a trade we need to talk about more and more as the Hard Sweepstakes gets closer to a finale, because this makes a lot of sense to me. I really I like this trade a lot for both teams. I kind of do as well. Look, Siakam and Harden feel like they make a lot of sense together. I mean, like, maybe you don't want to take the ball to Siakham's hands that much, but Toronto runs the type of offense where maybe they get Harden moving off the ball more. He makes so much sense next to Kyle Lowry, Like now it's you know Kyle Lowry. Yeah, he's getting older, but after this year, he's probably still going to be relatively cheap. It's just I think I wasn't as high on it before you talked me into it. So it's funny that I wrote down the trade and you're the one that's selling me on it. Yeah, it's because when you add in the protections, it makes a lot more sense. And you take off one with one of those swaps, right because you're you're giving up so many assets up front that you can afford to take away one of those swaps and you can afford to protect those picks. And I don't think Houston gets that upset about it because they're getting such good assets, Like you're gonna flip fredvard On Vleet and Norman Powell and Og and Andobi for really good picks. And I like that trade a lot. Like Listen, like Houston got two first round picks back for Roco and what are those picks with? This was a sixteen pick, so like they can legitimately get good picks back for annob And if you are Toronto, like I know Van Fleet is really good, but there's a chance that he's like a like he's he's either market level paid or a slight overpay. I don't think any players who get their money or technically overpaid. I will never criticize the players for getting their money. You would be from a team standpoint that they made the wrong call. You've safeguarded yourself against disaster, I would say, in every scenario except twenty twenty four, Like if you're just for some reason really bad and that pick is unprotected, like but that's it, Like that's I mean, I guess losing Og is a huge opportunity cost. But are you willing to give up if you have hardened for two years and you had to give up og for it and he ends up on like an expensive contract with Houston. I don't think that that's a terrible opportunity cost, even though it stings. And since we're putting top one protection on the twenty twenty five swap, you've safeguarded, and the top seven protection on twenty twenty six pick, you're you are ooculated against true disaster, like it could still end up, you know, stinging you. What if you send like a top ten pick to Houston in twenty twenty six You don't want to do that, But there's no like real asset catastrophe here if you aren't able to keep hardon, which again, if I'm Toronto, I don't make this deal without intel that Harden is planning on. Like this can't be a Kahis situation to me, Like you have your title already. If he's gonna just leave in two years, then you you don't do this. And I don't think Houston has to bottom out necessarily. I think they can do what the thunder did last year. They can probably make the playoffs. With like John Wall, Fred VanVleet, Norman Powell makes sense together. By the way. I know we said weren't going to talk about the Wall whoever fit, but Van Fleet and Wall makes sense together. Yeah, And like like this core in general, it's like you want to give it one run just for fun, Like just give your give your fan base a year of fun before you bought them out right, And like I think it's value wise, it makes sense, like it's still like a seventy. Like any of these trades where you don't like a bona fide star prospect, you're still gonna lose the trade. Right to be clear, you're trading with the thirty grades players of all time, You're still gonna lose. But it's it's I think it's fair value and I probably you know, I don't. I don't know if you want to rank these trades right now. I have this as my second or third best trade on on the board right now. For us, I think I think what we've done, if we've expanded the pool to where you can talk yourselves into hey, this makes sense for both teams. There's the Nets, the Sixers, the Warriors trade, and this the Raptors trade. I don't. I know, the Celtics trade was kind of sitting there. I'm just I get really uneasy about it for Boston, like there's just something about it. But if you wanted to throw them in there, then we've expanded it to the five teams. I think I did like the Pelicans all asset one, but that's just not I don't think it's a realistic trade for the Pelicans to make. Oh and the Blazers one was another one I liked. So yeah, I think we found like five teams, Like let's say, what was it, Raptors, Blazers, Sixers, and then Warriors. Can I just go through my rankings, so yeah, I'll stop interrupting you. No, no, you're good. Like, So I have the Sixers straight up as the best trade partner for Houston, and I think it makes sense from both sides. Uh, the second best trade partner from Houston might be Toronto, like like, I legitimately love this Toronto offer so much. And probably third, I guess I guess you have to put like so I don't think they're getting Ingram back straight up. Yeah that was just I was, Yeah, that was not happening. I don't think either New Orleans scenario is happening, to be honest, like, that's just not that any of these would happen. I think New Orleans is probably a hard no on both fronts. So at that point I probably like the Warriors, and then I after that I put the nets so like, those are like the four teams that I can realistically see trading for Harden Celtics. I agree with you. I don't think they do it, but I think if I were them, I would entertain it because I just I love the idea of pairing hard and with Tatum. I think we have four legitimate teams here. I even think the Blazers one. I don't know how you felt about that one, but C J. Collins Simons two picks and two swaps. Yeah. Yeah. It's the problem you get with that trade is I think I like these other trades for Houston better. No, I like them better, but I think this would I would loop. Yeah, and the two top ones though we're both the Philly scenarios. I think it's Ebiden Simmons and so that's one and two, and I agree with you. Raptors would be three. I have Warriors four. I think I like I probably have Nets five Blazers six just because the NETS picks are stretching to twenty twenty seven as a swap. So I think what we're finding with the Nets is it's it's such a poop poop player. Like again, the only reason we're talking about them, We would not be talking about them if James Harden didn't ask for to be traded to them, Like I mean, even before, we weren't talking about the Nets as like a superstar trade away, like because they didn't have superstar assets, like we were talking about Keris Lavert for like another good role player, right like I mean, I would even argue that, like the Nets might be better off, like using Dinwoody and something to get Aaron Gordon from Orlando, like I might make more sense for them then, because I don't know that this trade makes that much sense. For Houston, it's it's a poop poop platter. But they could turn Dinwoody, Allen and Lavert into more picks. It's just more legwork on their end. But for Brooklyn it's like I don't know, I guess Harden raises your ceiling, but the defense is so questionable. I think I'd rather keep Lavert and my picks and try and get like an Aaron Gordon type of player, or maybe if you really want another shot, create like zach Lavine has to come substantially cheaper than Harden, although I think there's a chance that Lavert the difference between Lavert Oladipo or zach Lavine, like unless all the people returns to twenty seventeen Oladipo, Like, I just think it's not appreciable enough. So if I'm Brooklyn, I'd be more interested in a smaller swing than going after Harden. But that's just me. Yeah, the hell. The hilarious version of this nets trade as if they throw on Kyrie, right like, because that that makes a lot more sense of them team wise, like as as just as a team like Harden and Durant and all these other assets, right like, if you get to keep if you get to keep Spencer, Dimwitody, Jared Allen and and that core together along with Durant and Harden just makes much more sense. I'm not sure if Durant's going to be a fan of that, because he wanted to play with Kyrie, and I'm not sure Kyrie is definitely not going to be a fan of that, and I think what you risk there if you're Houston is like, what if he just bounces in two years? Well, I'm not sure if I'm not even talking about I'm talking about strictly from the next end. If I if personalities like weren't they didn't play a part of this at all, I'd be more interested in that other package, right, Sure, I'd be more interested in flipping Kyrie than these other players for Houston, though, it's like what happens there is it's basically Kyrie and you're not getting Lavert or din Witty. Yeah, they're probably willing to give up Allen, but how many picks are they giving up along with Kyrie? I don't think they're giving up that many picks, really, you don't. You don't think so they're not giving up the four picks, the two first and two swaps that we put in. There's no way that happens. Yeah, probably, I think. I think I think the reason you put these these swaps in is because these ascents aren't aren't that good. But I think I think you throw in Kyrie in a situation where like, like like you really want hardened and sixers. The sixers are putting in one of their top guys. Well yeah, look, let's even just say Kyrie's open, like maybe he wants to kind of run the show by himself or be the best player on his team again, even though wall is still kind of sitting there. I just don't what do you accept if you're Houston, like, because it becomes an embed Simons situation where you're getting back someone who's so good already. I don't know how much their team is going to attach to him to get James Harden back, Like, I'm just curious what you think, Like it would be Kyrie and what for James Harden'd have to be picks? But how many? Is my point? Uh? Is it bad that I think if they keep the same amount of picks in, I don't think it's a bad trade for the Nets like that. That's how down I am with this quid. That's how negative I am on this. I mean, it comes down to whether they win a championship or not if it's bad. But I would say, if you're giving up Pete Kyrie's a top fifteen player and then four first round picks, I would call that a questionable trade. Yeah, I mean, I don't know like, I just don't like the core offensively of like, I think there's a lot of redundancy there, right if you trade for Kyrie Harden it I mean, if you have Kyrie, Durant and Harden together, it's just it will work, like probably because those stars want to make it work. And that's just a lot of talent you got. You got a bank on it. I don't know. I think you're maybe looking at Kyrie. I probably wouldn't do it if I'm Houston if I'm not getting Picks back, honestly, because I I think you might be able to get Kyrie Alan and too, like a pick and a swap. I think that's probably the ceiling on if you're getting Kyrie back, And look, I'm not even sure realistic that. I mean, that's basically the embiid Simmons trade. But as beat Simmons trade better, probably well you do, you like it better, but you're also getting Mike. You're getting Jared allenstead of Mike Scott, who's better than Mike Scott. And you can get a more distant first, I would think from the nets still in that scenario than you can from Philly. Yeah, I mean I want to see a team with Simmons and shooters really badly, like just just buy himself on an island, shooters, spread, pick and roll, Like let's see how good he can be. Like Philly's second units can look a lot like that, I feel like, right like and if if that, if that second unit is like balls to the wall, like just killing it, like they have a net rating of like plus twenty five or something like, that's when if you're Houston's like, yeah, we can confidently build a team around Ben Simmons, right, because that's basically betting on like someone like James Harden, right, Like that's what Houston did with James Harden. Like they looked at what Harden was doing with those second units in in Oklahoma City and thought, yeah, like that's that's a guy we can build around. Basically, that's a guy that's being underutilized because there's redundancies there. And if I'm if I'm if I'm Houston, like I really want to see I just want to see how it looks. I like that better than Kyrie and and John Wall and Kristen would like that might still be a good team. It's probably our championship contender. And I think Ben Simmons has that ceiling enough to where it's like, yeah, you go for Simmons over that. Well, look, Salmon, I didn't expect to go almost two hours with you, and the fact that there are two other team deep dives to come after yours on this podcast. Time stamps are going to be important for people. I encourage you to hop around, but this was great. I think we were so much more thorough. I probably came up with too many deals, but we went into the weeds on all of them. We ended up because we talked about Denver two different anrews. We came up with sixteen different James Harden trades, maybe seventeen. We were talking about Kyrie framework, fifteen fourteen different teams involved. If you guys are not following Salmon on Twitter, you should remedy that post taste. As I always say. He covers the Houston Rockets for ESPN ninety seven point five. He is a host of the at Red Nation Hoops podcast. Follow him on Twitter at Salmon ali MBA at s A L M A n A l I n b A Salmon. I think, as you know, at this point, I'm going to bother you again eventually, probably to talk about the actual James Harden trade that happened. But it really is always enjoy to to talk to you and thank you for giving us so much of your time. Yeah, this was fun. I just want the Rockets for like five minutes, just be less interesting, like just like just be like a normal team, like just for like give me two months if you operating like a normal team, just because I got just so I won't get like requests from like Canadian radio stations, like at eight am in the morning, I got that'd be great. That would be great. Canadian radio stations. They're so friendly though they are, they're they're very nice, they're very nice. But it's I just want to I just want to have like a peaceful two months. Here's the problem. The quickest way to get a peaceful two months would be for them to trade James Harden quickly and then deal with the fall out from there. Because if James Hardon's on Houston and we openly know he wants out, like that's not going to be a slow too. Once you're right, you're probably right.