WEBVTT

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You tell that birdie to keep its
trap shut for now. Ask not what

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your country can do for you,
and what you can do for your country.

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Either you were with us or you
were with the terrorists. All of

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it began the first time. Some
of you, who know better and are

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old enough to know better, let
young people think that they had their righting

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to choose the laws they would obey
as long as they were doing it in

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the name of social protest. It's
the Ricochet Podcast with Peter Robinson and Stephen

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Ham. We're sitting in for rob
Long. I'm James Lilyx. Today we

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talked to h R McMaster about the
world and the war. So let's ever

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so it's a podcast. Welcome everybody. It's the Rickashy Podcast, number six

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hundred and ninety ten to go until
seven hundred, which point nothing happens except

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the usual conversation you've come to expect
here. You can join us at ricochet

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dot com. Why don't you no
good reason not to be part of the

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most stimulating conversations in community on the
web. I'm James Leadlex. Here in

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sunny, beautiful spring Minneapolis couldn't be
lovelier. Roblong is peregrind adying somewhere,

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don't know. Stephen Hayward is in
for rob and Peter Robinson in California.

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Gentlemen, welcome. Last week we
discussed what was going on in the campuses.

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It seems to be winding down in
some places and flaring up in others.

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And what I'm curious about is what
you guys think is going to be

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the lasting, if any impact on
the twenty twenty four election. Are you

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going to have the old silent majority
types that might have gone over to Biden

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because they're sort of instinctively dispositionally kind
of old liberals looking at this and saying,

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oh my god, it's a replay
of these of these smelly hippies of

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sixty eight again. And no,
Siah, I don't like it. What

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do you think? What do you
think it's going to play out to be?

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Well? I look at the protesters, the pro Palestinian protesters, the

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encampments, and even more, the
irony strikes me as even richer when faculty

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at these institutions back them up.
Because here's what. I look at that

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picture of the faculty linking arms in
Columbia and I think to myself, congratulations

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you are aiding the campaign for reelection
of Donald J. Trump. You are

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providing unpaid what is it called the
unpaid advertising for in a pre media,

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pre media, free media for Donald
Trump. Think they could not assist his

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campaign more directly if they'd written checks
to him. Steven, you've probably seen

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the famous picture, now famous,
a statue of George Washington on the left

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end and on the right add of
the statue, the same statue after the

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encampment had had their way with it, and it's covered with Palestinian stickers and

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they are a headdress and the rest
of it his face is covered. It's

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turned into a symbol of Islamisist resistance. Which somebody said, there's Trump's to

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twenty four ad right there. Yeah. I mean there are two notable more

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than two, but two notable infuriating
ironies of this whole scene. I think

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you guys mentioned last week. I
you know, we really have to do

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this again. You spent all last
week's episode covetching about this and convetchings.

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Guy was not covetching, was It
was full throated denunciation. Yeah, Ok,

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that's right, covetching, he says, covelling. Maybe maybe I was

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am I covelling I could have been
developing, was covetching? Well? Things

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things have gotten worse in the last
week. You just when you you know,

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I've been saying for a while or
asking for a while, are things

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going to get worse before they get
worse? And the campuses seem determined to

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prove the answer is yes. I
think you guys mentioned or somebody has mentioned

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a lot recently that it was not
but six seven years ago that uh,

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you know, one hundred or one
hundred and fifty tiki torch bearing young deluded

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white kids caused an international crisis at
Charlottesville, and Trump was miss taking out

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of context about find people on both
sides that was about the statue contravery,

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and just to you know, again
correct the record. Briefly, Trump said,

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don't think this is going to stop
with taking down the statue to robbery

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Lee. They're going to come after
Jefferson and Washington next. And reporters were

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incredulous of this, so how can
you say that? And Trump said they

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were slaveholders. That's why the left
is going to come after those statues.

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Queed, the scene you just saw
or just described James at Columbia with people

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trying to be many Christo's I guess, than wrapping the George Washington statue,

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but without the imagination behind it.
Right. The other one is and I

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don't think anyone has commented on this, but we've been hearing for decades now

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that oh, if the United States
or Israel does anything tough in the Middle

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East, the Arab street will explode
the street. Yes, I don't.

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I'm not aware of any Arab streets
exploding in the Middle East or anywhere else

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in the world. The streets that
are exploding are on American college campuses,

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and that, I'll tell you something
about how deranged we are that that is

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where you're seeing the unrest about all
this. Finally, Peter your point about

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the faculty. What an amazing scene
that in the last two or three weeks,

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Google, of all places, managed
to fire forty or fifty employees who

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had protested on their grounds. And
yet no one is going to get this

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mys from a university for canceling classes, for impeding students getting into classes,

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and for all the disruption. I
think those ought to be fireable offenses.

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It is absolutely right it is possible
to cancel tenure of professors, but nobody

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has the guts to do it anywhere, it seems, and so I think

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it was going to fester for a
while. And if the war widens to

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in the northern front with Hesbela,
then I think we have a whole nother

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round starting in the fall. So
this takes me back to a little bit

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to the themes we discussed last week. But I'm going to do it anyway

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because this feels good. God bless
America. And here's why. The institutions

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that have seized up over Gaza,
we know, we name them and at

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the Columbia above all at the moment, and they dominate the news. But

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there are two wonderful aspects about the
United States of America. One is federalism.

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Ben Sas is not putting up with
a moment of this nonsense. Ben

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Sas, former Senator from Nebraska,
now the president of the University of Florida,

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Florida, is not putting up with
this. And down at the University

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of Texas they brought in I think
it was the Texas Rangers. They brought

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in some force and just move the
encampment out. There are places in the

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country where we were used to this
notion of the red and the blue model.

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But it goes deeper, I believe
than we may even have supposed.

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We tend to think of it as
tax policy. Now we're thinking of it

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as states trying to sort out abortion
policy. That's true. Now Texas is

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enforcing the border even if the Feds
don't want them to, and California isn't.

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And now we see that they are
even different approaches to higher education.

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That is a glorious thing because when
bits of America aren't working, you can

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be pretty sure there are bits of
America that are going to work. And

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then, of course, the other
bit, the other piece of this is

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what do Americans do when institutions fail? They start new ones. They start

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new ones. The one that seems
to be getting a lot of news right

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now is the University of Austin and
Texas, close to my heart because full

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disclosure, my oldest son works there. They'll be accepting their first incoming class,

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their first students this fall. But
there are a lot of little Catholic

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schools that have been founded in recent
decades. There are between four and five

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thousand universities and colleges in this country, and maybe twenty of them have been

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dominating the news. There are opportunities
all over the educational landscape for these,

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for institutions in the Midwest, for
smaller institutions, for trustees and creative trustees

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and presidents to make moves here,
and some of them will, I think,

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we hope. So trying to cheer
you up boys, No no,

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no, that's good, that's good. What I like is for people to

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self reveal, for the revelatory aspects
of these things to be chewed upon and

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digested by everyone. And I think
a lot of people have seen obviously that

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the left in this country valorizes protest, but only a certain kind. They

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may talk about how they admire the
protest tradition, then that's what it's really

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about, free expression and the rest
of it. But everybody knows that if

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this had been a group of ruer
right wing people who had done any of

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these things, that the whole country
would be up in the media would be

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absolutely a twitter and inflame with horror
over this imminent fascist takeover America. Without

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a doubt, somebody taken down the
American flag and put up a thin blue

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line flag, this would be a
sign that the fascist boot of the police

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state was about to smash down on
the poor phases of the people, and

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college people would be irrevocably shaking at
the sight of the thing if you had

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genial you know, kids in maga
hats who occupied a college office and didn't

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trash it, didn't spray paint the
walls, didn't put demands all over everything

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of things that they wanted to be
done. Now, because they're basically toddlers,

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that itself would be again tied directly
back to the Brownshirts and the way

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that Hitler disrupted civiliits. Everybody knows
it. So the reason that these things

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are being encouraged and winked upon and
given the blessing is because they adhere to

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a specific set of ideas, and
those ideas are manifestly outside of the general

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conversation that we have about the future
of America. They are not about whether

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or not we should be pushing more
towards liberal policy or conservative policy. They're

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about whether or not we should end
the systems and institutions that define this country

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and replace them with some sort of
transnational communist nonsense. And I mean,

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when you see the hammer and sickles, take them at their word. When

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you see everybody get up there and
talk about the necessity of dismantling capitalism with

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the worldwide into faughta and shouting with
glee over these things. Take them at

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their word. So between the anti
semitism and the ant to capitalism, which

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okay, fine, they're under thirty, they can do it, and the

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inflation of these academic no nothings to
avatars of the generation speaking diet were deathless

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truths. Everybody see, they've revealed
themselves to be anti American, and uh

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maybe that's maybe it's okay to call
them that because they are, and they

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revealed themselves to be profoundly ignorant of
history and economics and the rest of it.

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So so yeah, I'll shut up
with this. The one thing I

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always notice is that at they're done
occupying a place that it's trashed. It's

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filthy, strewn with a lot of
plastic. For some reason, they love

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their plastic. There was a building
I think at UCLA, this beautiful landmark

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in a sort of Roman and late
Romanesque style, and they'd spray painted it,

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of course, with the necessary things. Because if you don't deface a

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carving with the words free Gaza,
you have failed to do your part for

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the revolution. And there it was. It was. It was piled with

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garbage and tarps and chairs and the
rest of it, and this sort of

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animalistic gleat It's no, it's not
animalistic. Animals don't know beauty. The

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sort of anti human joy in defacing
beauty is one of the most telltale things

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about these people. I'll shut up
now, I okay. I asked a

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question of the two of you.
No, you may not, because the

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thing of it is, Peter,
is that you may ask that question if

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you pay me a dollar. You
want to pay me a dollar for that?

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And you're saying, James, we're
on the air, how can I

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possibly pay you a dollar? And
the answer is simple, there's an electronic

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level today Shopify dot com slash Ricochet, and we do think Shopify responsoring this

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the Ricochet podcast. Boys, I
wasn't in Rome when Michelangelo was painting the

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Sistine ceiling. I never got to
know Leonardo, but I have lived to

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see James Lilacs performed segues. Yeah, and it is enough, It is

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enough. I have to leave a
little early to complete your nomination for the

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Nobel Prize for segues. Yes,
right, well I'll take it for Rance

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perorations Philippics. And also you know, well, but only one prize a

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year. I think I think they
limit them. All right, and now

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we welcome to the podcast. Hr
McMaster, retired United States Army Lieutenant general,

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served as the twenty fifth United States
National Security Advisor. He's a senior

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fellow with the Hoover Institution and the
author of Dereliction of Duty and more recently

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Battlegrounds. The fight to defend the
Free World, and then there's the fight

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to defund the free world, as
we're seeing. Welcome to the podcast.

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Let's go right to Israel. We
all know that Joe Biden is quite proud

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of telling the Israeli government that they
should not invade Haifa. But we have

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the situation. We have this situation
where we're looking at Rafa and wondering exactly

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what the delay is. Can you
give us your take on the machinations,

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the negotiations, who stands to lose? Where do you think this is going

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to shake out? Well, the
Israeli Defense Force is going to go into

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Rafa, There's no doubt about it. And I think what's happening now is

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that Israel's dealing with the administration's calls
are exhorting them to not go into to

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Rafa, which of course makes no
sense. If you're going to destroy Hamas,

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you have to destroy the entire organization. The Israeli Defense forces have destroyed

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about eighteen of twenty four battalions of
and for their own population after the heineous

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attacks of October seventh. How do
they say, well, we just thought

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that was enough and we're gonna call
it a day and not really destroy the

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organization. Also, you have these
negotiations that are ongoing about the release of

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hostages and so forth. So I
think that the Israeli government is just letting

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that play out. But certainly there's
going to be a military operation against Rafa,

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And what I hope is there'll be
an opportunity to evacuate civilians and screen

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them in advance of that operation,
and then they can go after what remains

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of Hamas, including the leadership,
in a less constrained manner in terms of

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the use of firepower. Let's for
the people who don't have their head around

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this yet, let's define what battalion
strength means for Hamas. How many fighters

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that mean they've eliminated, and how
much of a force is the idea face?

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Now, yeah, it varies,
right because these terroisted organizations they organize

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along the line the lines of Battalia's
catabs in Arabic, But they really depend

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on what the purpose of that battalion
is. So you have to remember that

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there are two purposes for Hamas battalions. Purpose Number one, UH is to

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is to make good on their pledge
to try to destroy Israel and kill all

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the Jews. I mean, that's
what they're determined to do. So those

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people who lament you know that you
know that that you know Israel may not

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be fully committed to a two state
solution. How does that sound about Hamas's

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point of view in connection with the
tuestate solution. But the other purpose for

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these for these Hamas battalions is to
intimidate the population, the Palestindian population,

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to maintain the Hamas's iron grip on
power in Gaza, which they use obviously

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to divert international assistance, economic aid, economic activity, to enrich themselves the

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Hamas leadership UH, and to build
up terrorist capabilities and infrastructure to attack Israel.

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So those who are concerned about the
welfare of the of the Palestinian people

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in Gaza have to recognize that the
principal cause of the grievances of that population,

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the destitution in Gaza, is Hamas
itself. And so UH, these

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organizations use their their monopoly on power
UH to course and intimidate the population,

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to brainwash the youth UH and and
to to mobilize the entire population toward the

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destruction of Israel and the killing of
all the Jews. I mean, that's

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really that's that's really their mission.
And so it's important. I mean,

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so the battalions vary based on their
overall purpose. But what you have now

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is you have the remaining combat power
from Hamas, whatever that is. You

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have them with their leadership cowering,
cowering in the in the tunnels while they

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leave the population exposed. I think
it's important to point out that none of

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Hamas's tunnels have been used for the
purpose of civil defense. And the reason

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is, you know what if Hamas's
tactics is to get as many people from

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their own population killed as possible.
You know, most military organizations, all

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that you know that are I think
legitimate, exist to protect their populations.

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Hamas acts in ways to deliberately cause
casualties so they can use them on the

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world stage and tap in to this
kind of stream of self loathing youth that

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we have in the West. Who
who then can champion the cause of a

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heinous criminal organization like Hamas General.
It's Steve Hayward out in California. And

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you know, I don't think I've
ever had the honor to meet you,

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and I've long wanted to say that. Almost thirty years ago now, I

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did a very deep dive in the
Vietnam literature, and I tell everybody still

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here twenty five years later that Your
Dereliction of Duty is one of the four

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most significant books for anyone who wants
to understand the whole Vietnam scene. And

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I won't list the other three now
unless Peter ask me, okay, Steve,

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we get one. Are the other
three? Well, I will,

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I'm sorry that was bad in me. I think Gunter Louis book American Vietnam,

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which was a fairly early book,
is one of the best. But

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Louis Soreley is actually more than one
book from Louis Soorley, I think understands

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the endgame best of all. Absolutely, this is a better war. Is

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where that war right exactly? And
then and you know what, Louis Sorely

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is just a fantastic human being.
By the way, he's one of is

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a dear friend of mine, and
he's one of these people that you really

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want is your friend because he's one
of these people who if you ever need

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anything, ops everything to help you. He's a wonderful person. Really.

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Yeah, that's what my ex marine
Vietnam VET mac Owens always tells me about

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him. And you know what,
mac Owens is a phenomenal human being too.

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Oh, yes, that guy I
think maybe the most underrated scholar of

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his era. If you go back
to essay he wrote in nineteen ninety nine

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an Orbis Magazine journal, he predicted
everything we're seeing today in terms of the

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return of geostrategic competition. Now he's
a phenomenal phenomenal. And the last book

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has real contemporary relevance. It's Peter
Brestrom's book called The Big Story about the

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misreporting of the Tet Offensive. So
it not only tells the media malpractice,

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but also it tells the story of
what really happened on the ground in Tet.

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And you know what an important revisionist
work. And you read those four

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books, those three other authors in
you and you will understand what you need

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to know well. And I would
add, now since those works Mark Moreyr's

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right as well, great revisionist of
the revisionists. Wait a minute, Wait

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a minute, boys, what about
Michael Lynn The Necessary War? Michael Lynn's

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an odd character, but that book, I think that book is indispensable.

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No, well, look, there
are a lot of other books that are

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very good. I can name four
or five brothers. You started at Hayward,

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I know, I know, I
didn't well, I actually didn't want

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to extend the derelution of duty question
to a contemporary version of it, which

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is I mean a couple of forms
of this. The general form is,

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have our joint chiefs of staff learned
not really from your book and reflection on

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what they did wrong in the sixties
and so forth, and the more specific

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form of the question, and what
makes me raise it is we know that

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President Biden ignored the advice of the
Joint Chiefs and a lot of senior military

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people about what should be done about
Afghanistan, how we should get out.

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And I don't know what do you
make about that. The chiefs still have

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a ways to go, Our military
leadership have a way to go in civil

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military relations advising the president. Well, you know, a president can get

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the military advice he wants, but
by virtue of the way he structures those

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those relationships, what his expectations are, and he can just ignore it.

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You know what, in the case
of President Biden, President Biden didn't want

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to hear it. Remember when he
was vice president, he said that the

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advice he got from the military,
the President Bob was getting from military was

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was painting President Obama into a corner. Well, what he meant was he

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wasn't getting the military advice he wanted. He was getting uh you uh,

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honest military advice and didn't want that
from his senior military leadership. And so

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I think your President Biden when he
heard, Hey, you know, it's

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a bad idea to evacuate the military
before you evacuate civilians. Hey, uh,

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it's important to keep Bagram open if
we're gonna have any any uh any

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hope of of of of supporting Afghanist
who are still in the fight. You

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know, Hey, it's it's important
for us to not adhere to this timeline

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that uh uh that that that actually
the Trump administration agreed to. When when

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actually the Trump administration signed a surrender
document uh to to to to the Taliban?

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I mean, which is which is
terrible? And whoa whoa hr you

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00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:59.160
want to hold on? You just
said the Trump administration, in which you

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served, not at the time you
served, but in which you served,

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signed a surrender document to the Taliban. Do you want to stand on that

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statement? Oh? Absolutely, this
is this is an in February of twenty

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twenty when Zal Khalilzad signed the document
in the presence of the Secretary of State,

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and essentially, you know what happened
is the Trump administration replicated the policy

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of the Obama administration in the latter
years. President Trump made a I think

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a courageous, important decision in August
of twenty seventeen to fundamentally change our approach

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to Afghanistan. He put into place
the first reasoned, sustainable approach to that

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war that prioritized US interests and incentivized
by the way he explained himself to the

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American people in a detailed speech on
the matter. Correct, it was the

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best speech on Afghanistan in the long
history of that war. And I would

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I would encourage you know, your
view listeners, Hey, dig it out

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that Afghanistan speach in twenty seventeen.
But then, you know, he abandoned

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that whole approach. You know,
he listened to the mantra of end the

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endless wars, you know, and
the Taliban, you know, they're really

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different from the way they were,
you know before two thousand and one.

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Now they're going to respect women's rights. They're really separate, you know,

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from all these other terrorist organizations.
Utter bullshit is what that was. And

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self delusion, you know, And
and then you kept hearing, well,

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you know, there's no military solution
in Afghanistan. Hey guess what. The

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Taliban came up with one, didn't
they. And so you know, I

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think, you know, I think
that what he did, is he just

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bought into that nonsense. Now,
the Biden administration continued that policy. You

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remember, you know when the disaster
happens in August of twenty twenty one,

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the buyers just said, oh well, we couldn't, we couldn't change that

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policy. Really, you changed every
other Trump policy you stopped. You stopped

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00:24:56.279 --> 00:25:00.200
us securing our borders, you know
with Mexico. I mean, you could

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go back on that policy in Afghanistan. So what I'm saying is, you

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know, this is a disaster,
a catastrophe, a stain on America for

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the responsibility for which is shared by
both those administrations. Hr you finished,

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I understand. I ran into your
assistant the other day, and I understand

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you have finished the manuscript. In
fact, I think you have it in

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00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:26.200
galley form of your new book,
At War with Ourselves. I want to

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00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.279
advertise the book and the show that
we are going to do. We're going

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00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:33.359
to do an uncommon knowledge together on
that book. So the book is on

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your service in the Trump administration.
Correct, it is all right? So

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everybody who loves hr McMaster, which
should be everybody, The book is at

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00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:47.039
War with Ourselves. It will be
out in August. Hr, could I

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ask I would like to return to
the Middle East to the extent of one

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00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.559
or two questions and then ask sort
of step back and ask a question about

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this country, the politics of the
current moment in this country, not the

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00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:02.000
part is in politics, but the
overall mood of the country. But first

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to Israel and Gaza. What would
victory look like if you were advising bb

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Net and Yahoo and even more miraculous
he were listening to you. In other

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words, one of the things that
I find just perpetually exasperating about this conflict

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is that this goes on to another
topic, which is the corruption or at

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least the degeneration of the American press. There's really very good, very little

355
00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:36.039
good military reporting, so that the
Hamas fighters do they simply fade away into

356
00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:41.160
the civilian population the way the Viet
Kong did. How do they surround the

357
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:42.559
bad guys? How do they know
who the bad guys are? Do they

358
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:49.359
fill in the tone? What is
the end state in Gaza that represents a

359
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:53.960
victory for Israel. Well, the
victory is first of all to destroy Hamas,

360
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to kill or capture every single one
of those fighters they can get their

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hands on or get in the sight
of guns. That is immensely important.

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And then they can identify those fighters. They have the intel to know who

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they are, where they are.
Absolutely they can, oh they do,

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00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:12.440
Okay, Yeah, Now what will
happen is Humas will come back in right,

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They'll blend back into the civilian population. Maybe in the areas of the

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north. You've already seen, you
know, some instances where where they've coalesced

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back into small groups and attacked Israeli
forces. But if Israel is in control

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of that territory, they can identify
and those fighters and use their asymmetrical advantages

369
00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:38.920
in terms of their vast military capabilities
against them. But to your question about

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like what is enduring defeat of hump
Amus, how does that happen? Well,

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00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:48.200
it's particularly difficult for Israel to do
that because they don't have a great

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deal of credibility legitimacy among the Palestinian
population for a number of reasons. I

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mean, some of which go back
to nineteen forty eight, but some of

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which are attributable to the brainwashing to
which the Palestinian population has been subjected since

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Mamas took power by force in two
thousand and five. And this is the

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00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:12.160
systematic foamenning of hatred among the youth
in Gaza, and to use that hatred

377
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to justify in the minds of these
people who are sort of brainwashed, subjected

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to this propaganda, the heinous crimes
that you saw on October seventh of last

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00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:26.359
year. So how do you break
that? How do you break the cycle?

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There's really a cycle, you know, like of ignorance, which and

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00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:34.720
using ignorance to foement hatred and hatred
to justify violence. And the only way

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00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.960
that that's going to be able to
happen, I think in Gaza is with

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00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:45.960
a multinational security force that is a
peace enforcement force that when Hamas shows its

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head, which it will, that
they just they crush them. And that's

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00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:52.880
not the UN and that'll that's not
the UN. Look at UNIFIL in southern

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00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:57.759
Lebanon, it's a disaster. So
it has to be a multinational force with

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00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:02.880
that mandate. Could it be Egyptian
led, Well, the Egyptians haven't been

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00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:07.759
very cooperative. They didn't they didn't
they didn't let Palestinians evacuate, which I

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00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:11.839
think we should have put more pressure
on them to do that. Maybe it's

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00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:15.359
a it's a conglomerate of nations.
I mean, heck, maybe it's Kenyans,

391
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:19.359
who knows, But bring a multinational
force together, probably with American support

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00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:25.720
and some degree of American logistical and
communications and intelligence backbone, to lift the

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00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:32.480
pall of fear off the population.
There cannot be a restoration of some form

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00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:38.839
of governments in Gaza without a strong
security arm that can prevent Hamas from intimidating

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00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:44.480
the population and regaining control like they
did in two thousand and five. And

396
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:48.519
then what can happen. Well,
Hey, those tens of billions of dollars

397
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:52.839
that is that have flowed in to
Gaza since two thousand and five, you

398
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:55.759
know, maybe they can actually go
to the welfare of the Palestinian people.

399
00:29:56.359 --> 00:30:00.039
Maybe Gaza can become a viable economic
entity where people want to live, you

400
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:06.880
know, instead of the and fresh
water and streets. Right, all that

401
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:11.839
aid has been diverted into a rich
Himas and and and to build their terrorist

402
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:17.920
infrastructure and capabilities. I wish it
so if I were advising your question about

403
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.279
advising Promiser ne Nial, I would
say you've got to do more to begin

404
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:29.240
to at least be a contender on
the battleground of perception internationally. And with

405
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:33.119
the Palestinians. Why wasn't there the
equivalent of a lifestyle the rich and famous

406
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:38.000
documentary of all the all the other
Hamas leaders you know, and their and

407
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:42.279
their villas, you know on the
Mediterranean and then quick cut you know,

408
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:48.000
into to the the destitution of the
of the Palestinian people in Kaza. So,

409
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:53.079
I mean, why isn't there a
better effort to trace, you know,

410
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:56.599
to trace this back to its source, which is Tehran and the ir

411
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:00.759
audience, right, I mean,
you know, if you, if you're

412
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:07.200
Propoustinian, you should be protesting against
AMASU and against Iran because Iran's Iran strategy,

413
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:14.039
cynical, horrible strategy, is to
expend every Arab life you know in

414
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:18.079
the in their pursuit of extending their
hegemonic influence across the region, destroying Israel

415
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:22.160
and killing all the Jews. Hr
one one more, one more military question.

416
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:29.519
How many degrees of freedom so to
speak? Does BB have to act

417
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:34.759
on his own even in defiance of
Anthony Blincoln and the Biden administration, Meaning

418
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.039
can as far as I can tell, they need I think we have two

419
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:45.920
carrier groups in the eastern med right
now. They need money from us.

420
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.759
They need weapons and materiel. They
need our carrier groups holding down Hesbala in

421
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:53.039
the north so that they can continue
to take care of business in Gaza.

422
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:59.920
But now we have the Biden administration
all wrapped up in domestic American presidential politics,

423
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:04.640
terrified in particular as far as I
can tell of losing Michigan, where

424
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:08.079
there's a Muslim population of about two
hundred and fifty thousand people centered on Dearborn.

425
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:14.160
And so the Biden administration is saying, don't go into Rafa. We're

426
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:17.960
going to keep pretending that there's a
real negotiation going on with a mass so

427
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:21.359
that you don't go into Rafa.
Don't go in, don't go in,

428
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:23.559
don't go can be be going without
us or not see. I think that's

429
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:27.680
part of the dynamic. But also
I think it's going to backfire on them.

430
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:30.319
You know, a lot of the
Muslim population in the United States or

431
00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:37.839
in Michigan, they've they've been the
victims of Jahadist organizations like Habas. I

432
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:40.160
mean, that is not a monolithic
population. I mean a lot of those

433
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:45.359
people understand completely what Israel has to
do, you know. And and the

434
00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:49.799
other factor though, besides obviously wanting
to keep the United States on side,

435
00:32:49.799 --> 00:32:53.039
are not completely alien eight. I
think you're right about that. Is the

436
00:32:53.160 --> 00:33:00.440
is the tension of trying to maintain
the strong relationship that they have with Golf

437
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:07.839
states UH and golf state leaders who
have a real problem because even though they

438
00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:12.880
understand what Israel has to do,
even though they know that their interests are

439
00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:15.960
aligned. These are the golf state
leadership, mainly the Arab monarchies and you

440
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:20.960
know, in the in the UAE
and and then Saudi Arabia and and you

441
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:24.720
know, and Bahrain and and UH
and so forth. They they know that

442
00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:30.119
their their interests aligned with Israel on
on the threat from Iran, but hey,

443
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.720
their population is not with him,
you know, and on this and

444
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:37.559
so there are real checks, I
think on what Israel can do. And

445
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:43.160
I think it's smart, right.
I mean, if the Rafa operation happens

446
00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:45.119
two weeks later, doesn't really make
a difference. I don't think it makes

447
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:50.119
a difference. What the only difference
it might make is in preparation for the

448
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.119
next operation, which is going to
be probably the Southern Lebanon. And I

449
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:58.720
think what Israel has already concluded is
that they will conduct an offensive operation against

450
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:02.519
Hezbolah and so on before the beginning
of the school year. And the reason

451
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:07.920
is there are seventy thousand Israelis displaced
from northern Israel. We want to get

452
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:09.079
their kids back into school. Well
wait a minute, wait a minute,

453
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:13.119
this is here. Are you saying
they want to clean out hasbalt or just

454
00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:15.000
push them back, brush them back. We're going to push them back X

455
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:22.440
number of kilometers, fifteen twenty kilometers, and I could see a scenario in

456
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:28.360
which in which they stay there,
you know, right, hr, So

457
00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:31.280
let me ask you this question about
American politics, because we've got here's the

458
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:35.360
way it looks to me. On
the democratic side, we've got the Biden

459
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:42.480
administration tying itself into the shape of
a pretzel to try to keep one constituency,

460
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:49.360
which is Jewish Americans who are largely
democratic, overwhelmingly democratic, honestly pleased

461
00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:52.639
with the support the administration is offering
to Israel, but at the same time

462
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:58.960
just desperate for the youth vote,
which Biden will need in November. And

463
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:06.119
all the statistics show that the youth
are the most pro Palestine of any demographic

464
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:09.519
in the country. And so there
what seems to be the case right now,

465
00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:14.400
is that the policy is to help
Israel, but the rhetoric is to

466
00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:19.119
slow Israel down. But this is
complicated. On the Republican side, we've

467
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.239
got a man, you know,
for complicated and it's feckless. Actually,

468
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:25.000
okay, it's more than complicated.
It's idiotic. It will not work.

469
00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:30.559
Secklas is a nice way to put
it. You're good with words. Hr

470
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:34.159
you know you ought to consider writing
sometime. And then we've got and then

471
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:38.559
we've got the Republican side. You
know President Trump, you worked with him

472
00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:45.639
to sort out a strategy for Afghanistan
that made sense and I don't know how

473
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:47.320
to put it. He lost patience, he listened to the he was persuaded

474
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:51.639
by the endless war argument. We
just got to bring him home. And

475
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:58.119
now you've got very intelligent people.
JD. Vance In the Senate, Senator

476
00:35:58.119 --> 00:36:00.880
from Ohio, Josh Hawley, Senator
from Missouri. By the way, I

477
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:04.360
can tell you firsthand that he's smart
because I knew him and it was an

478
00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:09.159
undergraduate here at Stanford. We've got
Tom Cotton of Arkansas, and they are

479
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:15.719
broadly signing onto the argument. Know
to Ukraine, we have we have limited

480
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:19.400
I would I would not put Tom
Cotton in that camp, you would not,

481
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:22.760
Okay, okay, so then correct
me to the extent that you want

482
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:24.119
to correct me. But the general
point, I'd say, what do you

483
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:27.079
want to take your point there?
Do you want to say to Americans?

484
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:29.719
What do you want to say to
Americans? And in particular, what would

485
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:32.039
you say to Donald Trump right now? Well, first of all, I

486
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:37.280
think you have to try to understand
what is motivating those who are maybe fall

487
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:40.960
into this, I don't know,
neo isolationist camp, or maybe that might

488
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.440
be too harsh. Maybe they're not
really isolation as much as they are skeptical,

489
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:50.360
right, skeptical about sustained US commitments
abroad, especially military commitments are broad

490
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:52.880
and so so I always I believe
in and you know, I make the

491
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:58.360
argument for strategic empathy in the book
Battlegrounds. You know that bar the great

492
00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:01.159
historian who's a These are not stupid
people, they're not patriotic, they're good

493
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:05.559
people. No, but think about
what they're what they're what they're tapping into,

494
00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:09.440
and what they're drawing this perspective from. Is it's really the big transitions

495
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:14.199
in the global economy that occurred in
the two thousands, the loss of manufacturing

496
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:16.880
jobs. The numbers of Americans were
left behind by the transition of the global

497
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:22.199
economy. Hey toss in a financial
crisis. How about about an opioid epidemic?

498
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:25.559
How about the unexpected uh unarticipated length
and difficulty and cost of the wars

499
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:29.800
in Iraq and Afghanistan and the borders. Get look at our look at our

500
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:34.559
national debt, you know, look
at look at uh the degree to which

501
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.000
you know we we see that we
have problems here at home, even with

502
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:45.000
those who you know, who who
have lost faith in our country and and

503
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:49.960
are part of the self loathing movement
among our youth. And so they're saying,

504
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:53.639
hey, we got problems here,
you know, Like, hey,

505
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:57.920
you know, let the Middle East
solve their own problems. Dammit. Well,

506
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:00.400
I mean the counter argument, I
think is that, you know,

507
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:06.239
challenges to our security that develop abroad
can only be dealt with at an exorbitant

508
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:09.440
cost once they reach our shores.
And you know much better than I do,

509
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:15.679
because you work for him. I
think Ronald Reagan's Peace through Strength is

510
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:19.519
more relevant today than at other times
since the end of the Cold War.

511
00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:24.360
And so there is this dissonance among
many of those, especially in the Republican

512
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:30.840
Party who make the argument for our
disengagement from complex challenges abroad because they too

513
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:35.519
believe in peace through strength, But
it is actually communicates weakness if we don't

514
00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:38.239
have the ability to sustain a commitment
in Afghanistan for example. I mean,

515
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:43.800
hey, even the Obama administration when
they're when they left Iraq, they didn't

516
00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:46.760
negotiate with al Qaeda when they left
Iraq. I mean, the Trump administration

517
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:50.840
negotiated with the Talibot. Don't we've
at data Istan. If you're going to

518
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:53.639
leave, just freaking leave, you
know. So you know, I think

519
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:59.519
that you know that that this argument
is either it's like often in all or

520
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:01.000
nothing. We're going to solve all
the problems in the least, so we

521
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:04.480
need to get the hell out.
Well, you know what, Actually,

522
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:08.280
the problems in the least don't get
better when we disengage, When we demonstrate

523
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:15.599
our irresolution, when we demonstrate weakness, that emboldens Iotolahaminae. That's what it

524
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:20.400
oldened. Putin Look what the Bide
Admistration did. They withdrew our naval vessels

525
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:23.760
out of the Black Sea. They
suspended lethal assistance to the Ukraine, your

526
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:27.960
own forces. President Biden, went
over, you know, to meet with

527
00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:30.679
Putin in Geneva and said, hey, you know, here's all the things

528
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.599
I won't do to support Ukraine.
Here's our red lines. You know.

529
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:38.400
Then they evacuated all of our advisors, they evacuated our embassy, and they

530
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:44.360
scuttled our embassy right and and so
you know, it's like they green lighted

531
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:47.199
the invasion of your But they threatened, they threatened sanctions, and man,

532
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:52.079
they had some stern, tough words, you know, and the United Nations

533
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:54.159
for Vadimir Putin, what the hell
good did that? Do? You know?

534
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:58.880
You know what matters, you know
what matters, hard power matters,

535
00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:02.960
you know. And and so I
think that there is a certain dissonance among

536
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:09.440
those who call for our disengagement because
many of these same people also recognize that

537
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:15.360
it peeced through strength is the right
approach. Right general, I know you

538
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:17.800
need to go. So let me
give you an exit lightning round question that

539
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:24.559
draws back from the Gaza theater and
whatnot. It's a general geostrategic one.

540
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:28.039
You know, all the discourse right
now is about war in the Middle East,

541
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:32.679
and Gaza, Iran, China and
Taiwan, possibly Russia, Ukraine are

542
00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:37.519
there any other sleepers out there.
Are there any potential conflicts we're not paying

543
00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:40.880
attention to one in particular that makes
me think of this question. About two

544
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:45.079
months ago, you know, the
news was about how Guyana had a major

545
00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:47.760
oil discovery, one of the largest
in the world, and Venezuela said,

546
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:52.800
well, actually that belongs to us, and Venezuela it was reported was massing

547
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:55.559
troops. And now I've heard nothing. I mean, are there any sort

548
00:40:55.599 --> 00:41:00.119
of spots that the public and our
leaders are ignoring that you think could be

549
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:04.480
a surprise, maybe even in our
own hemisphere. Absolutely, and I think

550
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:08.840
it's it's really important to point out
our inattention to our own hemisphere. UH.

551
00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:15.960
Just yesterday or a couple of days
ago, Colombia UH ended a diplomatic

552
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:21.519
relations with Israel with a far left
government. You have Lula da Silva who

553
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:23.519
stood next. Was that Columbia the
nation was the Columbia of the university.

554
00:41:23.559 --> 00:41:29.880
I'm not right now, they're both
they both got it now, but you

555
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:31.800
know, Columbia was our staunches to
ally, you know, in the in

556
00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:36.320
the region. We partnered with Columbia
when when everybody thought that was going to

557
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:39.559
be a totally failed state, you
know, and and President Reba showed strong

558
00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:45.079
character and so did so many others
who sacrifice to rest control of that country

559
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:47.599
away from the drug cartels. And
we've had a strong partnership with them,

560
00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:52.360
and they've become they've become part of
the pink wave in the Western hemisphere.

561
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:58.000
Now Melee and at Artentina, he's
bucking that, right. There's a pendulum.

562
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:01.519
This one's back and forth. Chile
is resisting the peak wave. But

563
00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:08.119
Lula de Silva in Brazil and his
relationship with Russia and China, his supplication

564
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:13.199
to them. Look at what's happened
in South Africa. There is I think

565
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:20.159
a movement happening in the world into
these blocks, blocks of free and open

566
00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:24.679
democratic societies who have confidence in our
democratic principals institutions and confidence in our free

567
00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:30.639
market economic system, and those who
who are are leaned towards the statist,

568
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:37.360
mercantilist, socialist model. And I
think that's what we're not paying enough attention

569
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.920
to, is that competition that's going
on in other theaters. There are a

570
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:44.159
lot of people and this, Peter, this is goes back to your point

571
00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:47.239
about disengagement from certain areas. There
are some who think we should play little

572
00:42:47.320 --> 00:42:52.000
kids soccer because the Inner Pacific's really
important and we should just all run to

573
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.559
the Taiwan straight and stand there.
You know, China would love that,

574
00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:59.519
because China they could kick our ass
everywhere else in the world, you know,

575
00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:02.400
And so it's important for us to
recognize that there's a there's a competition

576
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:07.320
going on across the world, and
that we have to work together with our

577
00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:12.119
like minded partners to advance advance freedom. You know, the mission of the

578
00:43:12.199 --> 00:43:19.920
Hoover Institution promote promote our free societies. Well, you know, we ignore

579
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.280
Brazil because according to the left,
it doesn't matter because the guy cannot be

580
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:28.639
described as Trumpian as Bolscenaro could,
so they just if he's not truggling,

581
00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:31.199
they can ignore him. And the
Argentina thing will be interesting because you have

582
00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:35.920
people in the right rallying to this
gentleman as an example of how much you

583
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:39.000
can change a country quickly while having
a bad haircut. I mean, people

584
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:43.519
are really impressed with him, and
so I'm waiting for him to throw down

585
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.400
the other card and say that the
Falklands now belong to Argentina and watch that

586
00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:51.360
whole thing play again. But that's
for another podcast, and we hope to

587
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.880
have you on it, h R
McMaster. The upcoming book is At War

588
00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:58.440
with Ourselves, My Tour of Duty
in the Trump White House, scheduled for

589
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:01.440
release in late August. Can wait, and I hope to have you back

590
00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:06.199
on then or probably with Peter or
both oncomon Knowledge to talk about it.

591
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.880
It's been a pleasure, sir,
always, always in an instructive interval.

592
00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:14.599
He's so great to be with you. Thank you. Take care. Well,

593
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:17.800
that was fun. Now it's just
us lads here. Let's see Peter,

594
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:21.480
you had something you wanted to bring
up. Yeah, so we touched

595
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.400
on the politics of all this a
little bit in our conversation with HR.

596
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:28.440
That was the politics of foreign policy. Let me just go to the politics

597
00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:36.480
of politics. I this, this
strikes me as so strange that I'm mentioning

598
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:42.760
it to the two of you to
check my own sanity. Four almost four

599
00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:51.199
years ago, four years ago,
Joe Biden ran on normality and he said,

600
00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:57.800
in effect, Donald Trump is too
chaotic. He has brought us Trump

601
00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:00.320
didn't bring it to us, but
Biden claimed, you did. Trump has

602
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:09.199
brought us COVID demonstrations in the streets, cities burning across America. Vote for

603
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:16.000
me and it will end. And
now four years later, Donald Trump is

604
00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:22.440
emerging a couple of times a week
from a trial in Manhattan to say,

605
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:28.360
folks, things are so bad that
now I'm the normal one. Yeah.

606
00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:32.760
The border, we're being invaded on
the southern border. The campuses are erupting,

607
00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:38.320
the world is on fire. Vote
for me. I'll take us back

608
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:43.800
to normal. Is am I losing
my mind? Or is that what's happening?

609
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:46.679
No, I think it's actually even
deeper than you put it. Peter.

610
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:51.400
First of all, I think Trump
right now, what I think is

611
00:45:51.400 --> 00:45:53.119
Trump's going to win, and I
think he might win big. And you

612
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:55.800
know, we see these new pole
numbers showing him opening up a lead,

613
00:45:55.880 --> 00:46:00.000
and it's fun to speculate that maybe
they should keep him in court more often

614
00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:02.599
because it's yes, yes, his
speeches are more disciplined, I think,

615
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:06.519
right well, you know when he
does speak now, I mean, he's

616
00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:07.960
getting his game on. He's really
getting back in the top form, I

617
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:10.760
think. But there's two things here
that the plan into this. So you

618
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:15.159
know, in twenty sixteen and actually
going back to nineteen eighty, big question

619
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:17.360
marks about Ronald Reagan, right,
is he too extreme? And all the

620
00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:22.000
rest of that, and he ends
up winning the landslide as people decide that

621
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:23.840
we can take a chance on him. Trump in twenty sixteen, Oh my

622
00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:28.239
goodness, right, all the crazy
things he said, and okay, I

623
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:32.559
don't need to recite that litany.
But he's been president now, and as

624
00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:37.760
the polls show that a majority of
Americans now look back fondly on the Trump

625
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:40.039
presidency, at least the results for
the first three years. And yeah,

626
00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:45.000
maybe he's chaotic, and maybe his
personality is repellent, but they certainly like

627
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:47.599
the way the country was covered.
And this is the fact that he's been

628
00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:52.320
president, which means he's less of
a chance for undecided voters. Is something

629
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:54.239
that I don't see any of the
pun that's your polster's talking about. You're

630
00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:57.159
right about that, right, But
then the other thing you said about,

631
00:46:57.159 --> 00:47:01.320
you know, Biden's Biden's own chaos
and craziness. In political science, as

632
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:06.000
you probably know, they have the
famous median voter theory, which is,

633
00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:08.760
you know, there's an advantage of
the person who's clustered around the issues that

634
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:14.840
attract the median voter. That person
in this election is Donald Trump. Trump's

635
00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:19.159
opinions on the issues and Republicans generally
are much closer to the median voter.

636
00:47:19.639 --> 00:47:22.119
That's another reason to think that he
has an edge in this election why he

637
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:25.400
is likely to win. And so
the only question mark is are there going

638
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:30.079
to be some surprises? Is he
going to be thrown in jail? Is

639
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:32.639
he going to make some crazy mistake? Is Iran going to launch a missile

640
00:47:32.639 --> 00:47:36.119
at us? And people rally around
Biden? I don't know, but as

641
00:47:36.159 --> 00:47:37.519
of right now, the shape of
the race I think is fixed, and

642
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:42.079
I think it favors a solid Trump
win. And could I you mentioned that

643
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:45.320
something was even deeper than it seemed
or it seemed to me. I've also

644
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:49.079
again, this is a sanity check
for me, because I have these thoughts

645
00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:51.480
in my head, but I don't
have very many people to check them against.

646
00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:55.360
My wife doesn't want to hear it, but you two. So here's

647
00:47:55.400 --> 00:48:00.199
something that I have. The feeling
is deeper than is assumed or supposed.

648
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:07.559
This notion of Biden's age. Everybody
can see that man. He walks stiffly,

649
00:48:07.599 --> 00:48:12.559
He loses his place in speeches A
and B. He has failed before

650
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:15.559
our very eyes. You can see
it happening in real time. You go

651
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:19.199
to a clip of him even two
years ago, and he was in better

652
00:48:19.239 --> 00:48:22.880
shape, all right. So people
see that, and the press presents it

653
00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:27.880
as Americans have reservations about whether he's
too old to do the job, and

654
00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:31.360
that's true. But the deeper bit
I feel, I don't know it,

655
00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:38.440
but I feel it. The deeper
bit is that Americans are sick of being

656
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:45.239
lied to, and the press and
the administration is saying no, no,

657
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:49.960
no, he's fine, he's up
to it, he's absolutely fine. And

658
00:48:50.119 --> 00:48:53.480
I believe that there are lots of
people people on who may be otherwise swing

659
00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:58.639
voters, who just in some way
this represents the way they feel that the

660
00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:05.599
press and the liberal establishment has been
lying to them all along, and they're

661
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:10.000
saying, no, damn it,
don't tell me to disregard the evidence of

662
00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:14.559
my eyes. We assume there's going
to be a lot of lying. We

663
00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:16.000
assume we're going to be lied to, and we factor a lot of that

664
00:49:16.119 --> 00:49:20.159
in. We never would think that
the administration would say, you know what,

665
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:22.920
we screwed the push getting out of
Afghanistan. That was we scuttled out

666
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:25.719
without honor, and that's not going
to happen again. We're taking a good

667
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:30.079
hard look at it. If they
say, if they continue to insist that

668
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:30.920
it was by the numbers and it
was a great thing to do in a

669
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:34.079
complete success, let them. I
mean, we know that they're going to

670
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:37.039
lie about stuff like that. But
when it comes to lying about Biden's obvious

671
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:45.440
descent into Joel Joe Gillism, his
his his inability to craft a wake up

672
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:49.480
persona who knows what kind of be
twelve cocktail, they'll shoot his butt before

673
00:49:49.480 --> 00:49:51.800
he talked, before he debates Trump. But everybody knows it, and that's

674
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:53.599
baked in and you're right there,
Peter, But there's another lie. And

675
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:57.880
the other lie is that the economy
is great and we're not paying thirty seven

676
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:01.000
more for groceries every but he knows
that. Now, whether or not an

677
00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:05.199
administration will have the guts to get
out there and say, look, we

678
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:10.079
absolutely know what you're paying at the
grocery and it's ridiculous. Here's why your

679
00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:14.440
eggs went up, It's because you
know, and tell us why that.

680
00:50:14.679 --> 00:50:17.400
Here's why your cereal went up,
Here's why meat is so expensive. We

681
00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:21.880
know there's only so many things we
can do, but we are well aware.

682
00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:25.960
Instead of that, they tell us, wait a minute, what are

683
00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:30.440
you talking about. I mean,
yes, the price of hamburger did go

684
00:50:30.679 --> 00:50:35.320
up a bit, but your wages
went up fourteen percent, don't you realize

685
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:38.719
that? And nobody's looking around and
looking at their paycheck and looking at their

686
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:42.679
groceries and saying, boy, I
feel rich or I feel richer, and

687
00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:46.559
nobody is doing that. People are
seeing that, they're seeing changes, like

688
00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:51.920
when they go to the the to
McDonald's or to Wendy's to find out that

689
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:54.280
McDonald's now costs as much as some
of the premium burger places like five Guys

690
00:50:54.320 --> 00:51:00.199
and the rest of it. It's
stunningly expensive to get a hamburger at McDonald's,

691
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:02.320
which used to be the thing you
got for a buck on your way

692
00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:07.159
home, just just a plug a
hole in your stuff. Everybody knows it,

693
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:13.960
and everybody you know, whether or
not they have a complete and encyclopedic

694
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:17.159
and economic knowledge of why we have
this inflation and why spinning is to blame

695
00:51:17.199 --> 00:51:20.519
it? Who did the spinning over
the last few years, They know it,

696
00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:22.840
and they're being all I do about
whether or not it matters, And

697
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:25.599
even if they don't, they're gonna
say, was I paying this much for

698
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:31.400
a burger under Trump? I was
not? Ergo, that's the guy.

699
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:35.320
And you know, that's what it
comes down to for an awful lot of

700
00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:38.000
people, And it's not a stupid
decision to make because they can't afford to

701
00:51:38.039 --> 00:51:44.400
take the kids to McDonald's anymore.
Matters more perhaps than leaving Afghanistan. Anyway.

702
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:47.679
One of my favorite pictures of Trump
of all time was the when he

703
00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:52.599
had the athletes in and he had
a huge spread of all the past Foodenburgers.

704
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:53.840
I think that should meet camp.
You know, you want a corner

705
00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:57.599
copy of this back and at the
price you can afford, then you know

706
00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:00.400
what to do. I that was
great. The Prince, Well, the

707
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:05.039
principal argument, sorry this is I'll
let Steve comment and I will fall silent

708
00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:08.480
after this. But the main argument, in some ways, the only argument

709
00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:14.559
that Biden has is Trump is crazy. You can't vote for him because Trump

710
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:17.960
is crazy. But you know,
here's why that argument is now losing its

711
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:27.639
effect, its purchase on the American
psyche because lots of voters are admitting it

712
00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:30.960
and saying, yeah, Trump is
crazy, but you know what, there

713
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:37.960
are things that would be worse and
another four years off you buster is starting

714
00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:40.559
to look just like that, or
another one of three in Kamala Harris or

715
00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:45.280
exactly. You know, Peter,
this is something that it's often said that

716
00:52:45.360 --> 00:52:47.800
people in the White House are in
a bubble, or parties in a bubble.

717
00:52:47.960 --> 00:52:51.239
That's of course true. You know. One of the things I showed

718
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:53.039
to students often on the first day
of class, depending on the class,

719
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:57.840
is the great time series from Gallup
and other posters going back to the fifties

720
00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:01.800
of trust in the federal series.
Steve've seen that, right, it's all

721
00:53:01.880 --> 00:53:08.239
downhill with the significant backtrackor in the
Reagan years, that's the only significant restoration

722
00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:12.360
of confidence in the federal government in
the last sixty years. So I went

723
00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:15.519
from seventy eight percent people saying they
think Washington's got the doing a good job.

724
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:22.239
Now it's in the mid teens.
And so don't people in Washington and

725
00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:25.559
sort of the rest of the establishment, for lack of a better term,

726
00:53:25.920 --> 00:53:31.280
don't they understand that confidence in our
institutions is so low that calling someone a

727
00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:36.199
chaos agent will bring smiles to the
faces of a lot of ordinary citizens,

728
00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:38.719
right, ye, And that's what
I want. The line and trust goes

729
00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:44.079
down as the line of government involvement
in our lives goes up, and from

730
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:50.079
that they learn nothing about our attitudes
towards their competence and their occasional intrusiveness.

731
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:54.079
Right, sounds like great, he's
an agreement. No. No. The

732
00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:58.000
other thing is, so this is
Steve, Steve, Steve. This is

733
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:00.679
a Steve would actually and on this, I think both of you. But

734
00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:05.760
Steve has written books, whole books
about Ronald Reagan and Reagan and Churchill,

735
00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:09.039
and I draw this distinction, although
part of it is I have to admit

736
00:54:09.159 --> 00:54:19.199
his supposition speculation. Biden is an
old man and he's surrounded by young technocrats,

737
00:54:20.559 --> 00:54:29.400
and their loyalty to him is going
to be limited one way or the

738
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:32.760
other. He's about ready to retire, either into four years at the White

739
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:37.800
House or back home in Delaware.
But these people have careers to consider.

740
00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:45.159
And whereas I believe Steve would confirm
this and maybe elaborate on it, Winston

741
00:54:45.239 --> 00:54:50.239
Churchill by the time he became prime
minister. Of course, he became prime

742
00:54:50.239 --> 00:54:52.360
minister in time of war, but
even apart from that, by that point

743
00:54:53.679 --> 00:55:01.239
he had close advisors and supporters who
would do any thing for him and Ronald

744
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:07.440
Reagan, by the time he took
office in nineteen eighty had ed Mese and

745
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:14.000
he was surrounded by people who would
do anything for him because because they loved

746
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:17.079
him, because they believed he was
the way forward for the country. There

747
00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:22.599
are no such people around Joe Biden, with a possible exception of doctor Jill,

748
00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:25.079
I think, yeah, no,
I've been saying for you, can

749
00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:29.960
you please define for me a Biden
Democrat. We knew what Clinton Democrats were,

750
00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:30.840
and it was a little fuzzy,
but it was sort of that new

751
00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:37.000
Democrat vibe and and you know Obama
was a cult of personality. But yeah,

752
00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:39.800
Biden, look, I mean this
is not an original thought with me.

753
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:42.960
I think I got it first from
Henry Olsen, who you guys have

754
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:45.679
had on a couple of times.
We all steal from Henry all the time,

755
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:47.400
right, No, no, no
need to credit him. Yeah.

756
00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:51.159
Well, but the point is is, you know, Biden's political ability was

757
00:55:51.199 --> 00:55:53.000
always to find the center of the
Democratic Party, figure out where it was

758
00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:54.760
going, and then get in front
of it. You know, he saw

759
00:55:54.800 --> 00:55:57.960
Paray going down the street and he
gets in front of it and thinks he's

760
00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:00.599
leading it. The problem is he
is hell Bliss when the party is divided

761
00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:05.800
between these factions as a wreck.
No, he is no core principles of

762
00:56:05.880 --> 00:56:07.719
his own. Did you know Peter, that not only did Biden vote for

763
00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:12.400
all of the tax cuts starting with
the Capitol Games tax cut in seventy eight,

764
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:16.000
all of Reagan's tax cuts, he
was endorsed for re election in nineteen

765
00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:21.920
seventy eight by Howard Jarvis. Wow, because he know he was known as

766
00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:23.360
a conservative Democrat. I mean,
it's all on the record. You know,

767
00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:27.440
you can quote Biden against himself now
from the Biden of the seventies in

768
00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:30.199
the eighties, there's no core principle
to the guy. He's always and that's

769
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:35.159
what made him attractive. I think
in this last election cycle when the party

770
00:56:35.239 --> 00:56:39.800
panicked that Bernie or Elizabeth Warren were
going to win the nomination, and that's

771
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:43.679
why they grabbed onto him. And
he's very pliable and I think, as

772
00:56:43.719 --> 00:56:45.960
you say, see now, by
the way, did you notice this week

773
00:56:45.159 --> 00:56:49.599
not only did he let fly with
impromptu remarks about how the Japanese and the

774
00:56:49.679 --> 00:56:53.519
Indians are zeophobe, but then there's
now a feelanx of people around him who

775
00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:58.400
surround him when he walks out to
the helicopter on the south lawn because they

776
00:56:58.440 --> 00:57:01.440
don't want it visible that he can't
walk like a normal human being. I

777
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:05.400
don't know why don't they just put
him in this sedan chair and bear him

778
00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:09.000
out on that goodness? Have him
tossed, have him tossed, sasteries out

779
00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:14.639
as asses. Yes, indeed,
both sides well, and there isn't there.

780
00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:19.039
It's it's it's you're right the division. I mean, Joe Biden would

781
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:22.679
probably see a nuclear missile that we
had paid for coming out of Iran heading

782
00:57:22.719 --> 00:57:27.440
towards Israel, and there's the iron
dome system knocking it down, which we

783
00:57:27.519 --> 00:57:30.360
have helped them to develop, and
think, well, you know, my

784
00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:37.440
work here is done. Uh,
it's it's extraordinary. But time moves on,

785
00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:40.400
and next week, who knows what
we're talking about. I almost hope

786
00:57:40.400 --> 00:57:44.679
we're talking about the same things,
because it's fascinating. All of this stuff

787
00:57:44.840 --> 00:57:50.400
is tremendously important to where this country
is now. I am this is not

788
00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:52.199
just the usual politics stuff, and
I always say it's the most important election

789
00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:54.920
in my life ever. But you
know, this one does seem to have

790
00:57:55.039 --> 00:58:00.440
more hefton weight and meaning than the
rest. It feels like a cal climination

791
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:02.639
in a lot of ways. And
it's hard to say that, you know,

792
00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:06.800
it's culminating with two old guys,
but here we go again. Anyway,

793
00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:07.800
we'd like to thank you for listening
to the show. Of course,

794
00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:12.280
go to Apple podcast give us four
stars. Did I say four stars?

795
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:14.400
I meant to say five stars.
I wanted to see if you were listening.

796
00:58:14.519 --> 00:58:16.280
You were, weren't you? And
of course go to ricochet dot com.

797
00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:20.880
Join up and you'll find the member
feed, which is where the Internet

798
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:22.960
that you've been looking for all of
your life is waiting for you. We'll

799
00:58:23.000 --> 00:58:27.039
see you there. Thank you,
Steve, thank you Peter, Thanks guys,

800
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:30.239
and we'll see everybody in the comment, said Ricochet four point zero.

801
00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:37.760
Next week, Ricochet Join the Conversation.