1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:07,200 You're listening to the Mind over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,719 --> 00:00:12,039 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,000 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,239 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,719 murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:29,079 Kristin Dilley. My name is Kristin Dilley. I'm a writer, a researcher, 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,799 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media 8 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:37,880 manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in 9 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:49,640 crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind of a Murder. I'm Kristin Dilley 10 00:00:49,759 --> 00:00:54,320 and I'm Bill Thomas, and we are joined today by author John Glatt, 11 00:00:54,439 --> 00:00:58,399 here to talk to us about his book The Doomsday Mother, Laurie Vallo, 12 00:00:58,679 --> 00:01:02,640 Chad day Bell, and the of an American Family. John, thank you 13 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:06,359 so much for joining us today. I had pleasure. Thanks for having me 14 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,400 go ahead and start by telling our listeners a little bit about your educational and 15 00:01:11,519 --> 00:01:15,319 professional background. How did you get into writing true crime. My backgrounds in 16 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,840 journalism Back in England, I dropped out. I was a dropout. I 17 00:01:19,079 --> 00:01:23,760 dropped out of school and worked from music publisher. You might be able to 18 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:30,519 see this build. That's my first job. I worked from music publisher. 19 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:36,400 I did tea and coffee and runs the post office. And I decided that 20 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,319 I wanted to get into writing. So I managed to get into a local 21 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:45,799 newspaper in South London and went from there and then I used that as a 22 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:51,000 stepping stone to come over to America in eighty two and been here ever since. 23 00:01:51,719 --> 00:01:56,000 Was the writing thing something that you were always interested in as a young 24 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,400 man? Oh? Yes, yeah, and I love writing or something I 25 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,519 enjoyed doing. I liked I'm very curious, I liked asking a lot of 26 00:02:02,599 --> 00:02:07,960 questions and finding things out, and journalism to me was the perfect occupation. 27 00:02:09,159 --> 00:02:14,039 Absolutely it was. So what then attracted you to the field of true crime? 28 00:02:14,039 --> 00:02:16,400 Because it really does take a very special type of person to be able 29 00:02:16,439 --> 00:02:21,879 to deal with the depravity that comes with the true crime field. What happened 30 00:02:21,879 --> 00:02:24,360 for you? Why actually started? My first book was on rock and Roll 31 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:30,240 as an unauthorized biography of Bill Graham, in fact, the Fillmore East and 32 00:02:30,319 --> 00:02:35,199 West and that whole concert promotion business. That was my first book, and 33 00:02:35,199 --> 00:02:38,000 then I did a couple of other books. I did one on River Phoenix, 34 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,919 I did one on the royal family of Monaco. And then I had 35 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,560 a friend, a very good friend, who was writing true crime books for 36 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,639 Saint Martin's in New York, and he kind of husband me into it, 37 00:02:50,719 --> 00:02:54,000 and they gave me a trial twenty five years ago. And my first book 38 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:59,840 was an anthology of priests that killed. The second book was an anthology of 39 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,719 it's called Evil Twins, about cases of twins, either one killing the other 40 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,039 or killing other people or whatever. And I went from there really that, 41 00:03:09,759 --> 00:03:15,360 and after that I was pretty well been doing true crime since. But I 42 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,439 have to stop you for a second, John, that's quite a turn. 43 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,039 In other words, I also worked in the music business for a number of 44 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:30,400 years. But that's quite a turn from Bill Graham to priests who killed. 45 00:03:30,719 --> 00:03:35,199 I know I'm skipping a step or two there. That's a pretty dark left 46 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,400 turn. Don't you think some kind of segue, isn't it. Yeah? 47 00:03:38,439 --> 00:03:42,520 It listen to say that Bill Graham couldn't be evil, But he also did 48 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:50,319 a lot of good things. Yeah, for those obviously very different subjects, 49 00:03:50,319 --> 00:03:53,280 but both interests me. Really, it's finding out the story. I love 50 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,599 just finding out the real story, and that's what wrapped me about it, 51 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,479 especially about Bill Graham, because I interviewed a lot of people that knew him 52 00:04:02,199 --> 00:04:06,439 rock bands from the times and the sixties and whatever to get to know him, 53 00:04:06,479 --> 00:04:11,919 as try and get to know of this person because unfortunately he died by 54 00:04:11,919 --> 00:04:15,800 the time I started. I'm just very curious and I wanted to explore more. 55 00:04:15,079 --> 00:04:18,680 And it's the kind of same formula I use in true crime books. 56 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:23,680 I try to speak to as many people as possible and trying to get different 57 00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:27,680 views on what happened, what the person was like, and put them all 58 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,079 together. And that actually does speak to my next question, which is, 59 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,000 other than telling the facts of the case and the story of the crime, 60 00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:40,000 what other goals do you have in mind when you set out to write a 61 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,720 book about a case. And it sounds like one of them is get to 62 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:46,319 know who these people were, But do you have other goals that you set 63 00:04:46,319 --> 00:04:50,759 out to do? Yeah, I obviously wanted to write an interesting book which 64 00:04:50,759 --> 00:04:56,439 will keep the readers finishing towards the end or would that would be If I 65 00:04:56,439 --> 00:04:59,319 didn't do that, it wouldn't really work. But you just want to find 66 00:04:59,319 --> 00:05:02,240 out. I I like to find out what made people do it. I'm 67 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:08,279 not askin' I don't pretend to be, you know, to explain why people 68 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,839 do what they do. I just want to present as much facts as possible 69 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,399 and let the reader make up their own mind about what happened. And so 70 00:05:16,519 --> 00:05:21,560 then how do you pick the cases? These days? There's so much interesting 71 00:05:21,639 --> 00:05:25,800 to a crime, and you've had a great deal of success. How do 72 00:05:25,879 --> 00:05:30,199 you choose the cases you choose to write about? And I think they have 73 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,360 to interest me. Obviously, they have to interest the publisher. If the 74 00:05:33,399 --> 00:05:38,160 publisher doesn't think the book will do well, they're not gonna have me to 75 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,319 do it. I mean that there's a two prompted sword day. But there's 76 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,959 a lot of things that really interest me. For instance, the Doomsday Mother. 77 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,399 I live up in the Catskills and I was at a local bart talking 78 00:05:50,399 --> 00:05:53,920 to some friends. I've never heard about this story, by the way, 79 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,639 and a friend of mine started telling me about it. So it's all these 80 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,399 people, they're just disappearing off the face of the earth. It's like very 81 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:05,279 weird, warm and based murder that seems to be going on, and I 82 00:06:05,319 --> 00:06:10,920 went straight home and started researching it. And this was right at the beginning. 83 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:15,439 Basically, it's where are the children and Laurie and Chad Wastin in Hawaii 84 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,759 fending off dateline reporters and a local East Idea home. So I've been there 85 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:24,439 at the beginning and went from there and I published to light the idea and 86 00:06:24,519 --> 00:06:28,279 told me to go ahead. I felt like the book came out. And 87 00:06:28,519 --> 00:06:31,160 I think it's just because it's been and everybody's radar for so long, but 88 00:06:31,199 --> 00:06:33,800 I felt like the book came out really quickly. I was like, oh 89 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,639 my gosh, how was there a book about this already? I'm so excited. 90 00:06:36,639 --> 00:06:41,120 It's great. I was so psyched when I saw it. And I 91 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,600 know you're very much on top of the most recent cases. I'm in the 92 00:06:45,639 --> 00:06:47,959 true crime section at Barnes and Noble all the time, and you can't go 93 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,279 into that section without seeing at least a couple of your books. So I'm 94 00:06:51,319 --> 00:06:55,800 always excited every time I see anyone. No. I worked on this for 95 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:00,120 about eighteen months actually, and obviously with the trial, new stuff coming out 96 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:05,279 every day, I'm riveted to listening to the audio because I couldn't afford to 97 00:07:05,319 --> 00:07:09,319 go to the trial for two months, however long it's going to be. 98 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,959 But there's a lot of new stuff coming out for the trial which I wish 99 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,079 I could have added to the band. Maybe I can do an update to 100 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,560 do that. I'd like to. But I got very lucky in that I 101 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:25,519 had Chad day Bo's preliminary hearing. So a lot of the testimony from the 102 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:31,439 FBI and the detectives about when they found the children's bodies in Dabel's garden came 103 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,519 out at the preliminary hearing and it started made a lot of sense. Right. 104 00:07:35,519 --> 00:07:40,959 I can see there were things that I hypothesized when I was writing that 105 00:07:41,079 --> 00:07:44,279 now with the trial, I can see that I was definitely on the right 106 00:07:44,319 --> 00:07:47,800 line. Are there things now that are coming out, John that you're shocked 107 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:54,399 by? Because when I read summaries of what has transpired, and you're obviously 108 00:07:54,399 --> 00:07:58,680 a lot closer to the details than most people would be. But as more 109 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,519 information comes out, I just find myself rocked back in my chair. These 110 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:07,480 people are sick, Yeah, especially with lex Cox, Laura Laurie Vella's brother. 111 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,000 Yesterday I'm his dispent today listening to the cell phone. They trapped his 112 00:08:13,079 --> 00:08:20,600 cell phone, GPS, WiFi and they marked him on the days that Tiley 113 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:26,360 disappeared was last known Society and JJ And you can see he's moving from his 114 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,159 apartment next door to Laura's in Rexburg, Idaho, and then to Chats to 115 00:08:31,279 --> 00:08:35,639 bury the body. And it all makes perfect sense now, And it amazed 116 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,840 me just how much they could find out about him. And it's really been 117 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,919 for me, having done the book, really riveting to listen to this testimony. 118 00:08:46,399 --> 00:08:48,559 What would you say, are some of the most surprising things that you 119 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:54,240 learned about Laurie and Chad and these sort of weird shared beliefs that they had 120 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,080 in common as you completed research for the book. What were some of the 121 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:03,240 shockers? It amazed me how many people were under their spell. Really, 122 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:09,440 there were a lot of people that believe Chad Dabo was a prophet, and 123 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,519 they followed everything he did. They read the books, the podcasts and everything, 124 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:16,039 and they really believed he was for real. And one hundred and forty 125 00:09:16,039 --> 00:09:20,679 four thousand that he told Laurie they were going to leads for the Second Coming, 126 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,919 It just blew my mind. That people really believe this, and it's 127 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,799 incredible in this day and age that they didn't ask more questions, but they 128 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:35,720 went along with it. And it may like past lives, reincarnations and ever 129 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,000 they believed in all that, But that to me was a real shocker. 130 00:09:39,039 --> 00:09:41,960 I think. Yeah, it does sound like though, in reading about the 131 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:48,120 Mormon Church, that there is a history of people within the Mormon Church kind 132 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:54,600 of self declaring as prophets, in other words, naming themselves as prophets. 133 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,559 Yeah. I mean, there's been some pretty horrendous murders I think involving the 134 00:09:58,639 --> 00:10:03,759 Mormon Church, and I think they're very embarrassed about this because they've distanced themselves 135 00:10:03,799 --> 00:10:09,399 as much as possible from this case because it's very bad complicity for them, 136 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:15,159 I think. So there's that facage of it, the part that I'm always 137 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:16,799 the whole thing. I'm fascinated by the whole thing. So I guess I 138 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:20,039 can't really say the part that I'm most fascinated with. But I was so 139 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:26,759 curious how Alex Cox ended up as involved as he was in the case. 140 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:31,360 Is it because he was so weirdly and maybe a little eckerly attached to his 141 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,279 sister or was it a predilection for violence or was it something else? What 142 00:10:35,399 --> 00:10:39,000 do you think caused him to get as involved as he was. I think 143 00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:46,279 if he heard the testimony by Laura's younger sister, Summers Shifflet. She talks 144 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,639 about I think Alex had some kind of accidents as a teenager and it did 145 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,080 something to his brain, and she said he never really grew up after that. 146 00:10:54,159 --> 00:10:58,440 He was just a teenager and when he became a man, he still 147 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,039 process thoughts like a teenager. I think that had something to do with it. 148 00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:07,399 I think one of the interesting things in my book was I got although 149 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:15,440 I couldn't name her, Laurie's best friend at Eisenhower High School in California, 150 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,039 she gave me an interview where, you know, they were very they were 151 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,600 inseparable, and she said in twelfth grade, they were having a sleepover and 152 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,320 Nori became very emotional, flung her arms around her and said that Alex, 153 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:31,399 who was like I think four or five years older at the time, Alex 154 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,000 was trying to have sex with her and she didn't know what to do, 155 00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:37,600 and her friend didn't know what to do or what to tell her son. 156 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,080 It was never mentioned again, but the friend told me, because her mother 157 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:46,200 was a teacher, that if she just wishes that she could have told the 158 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,279 grown ups what was going on, because maybe it may might have changed everything. 159 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,320 That's just hypothesis, but that was my theory that they had a very 160 00:11:54,320 --> 00:12:01,679 close relationship. And do you think that Alex became essentially a follower of Chad. 161 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,399 He believed everything Chad told him. Chad and Laurie. Melanie Gifts says 162 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:11,080 that in her testimony, Alex believed everything he believed in past lives, and 163 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:16,960 Chadd had told him that he'd been particularly selected for this life to be the 164 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:20,919 protector of Laurie, that he had to protect her from evil, and that's 165 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,639 what Alex thought. He was a warrior in this way. I mean, 166 00:12:24,639 --> 00:12:31,080 look at Joe Ryant third husband, Tyler's mom when he tasted him. Basically, 167 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,679 Alex tasted him while Laurie looked on with time while they had a visitation. 168 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:39,919 Alex was always getting He was a violent person. I think too, 169 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,879 that part of the book was absolutely insane to me. I was sitting there 170 00:12:43,919 --> 00:12:48,480 shaking my head when it came out that Laurie and Tyedy. We was sitting 171 00:12:48,519 --> 00:12:52,559 in a car watching it all happens. Pretty scary there, really is. 172 00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:58,039 And I spoke to Joe Ryan's lawyer, very interesting, and he told me 173 00:12:58,159 --> 00:13:03,559 that it affected Joe and did something to him. He has began, he 174 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:09,080 developed heart problems and everything, became an alcoholic and died pretty pretty young. 175 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,120 And the lawyer thought it was a direct result of being tasered like that. 176 00:13:13,879 --> 00:13:16,879 Yeah, I was going to ask your thoughts on that. Could we can't 177 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:22,000 technically a hundred percent lay his stath at chat and Laurie's hands, but it 178 00:13:22,159 --> 00:13:28,279 sounds like we can indirectly put it there via Alex exactly. Yeah, the 179 00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:33,120 taser. But there's a lot there's been a lot of talk about whether Laurie 180 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,759 could have been involved in his death. He definitely gave talks where she said 181 00:13:37,799 --> 00:13:43,639 that he was a candidate to be murdered for what he'd done to the kids. 182 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:48,080 And then at the same time, I'm very suspicious that Alex's death, 183 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:56,080 which seems awfully convenient. He's effectively acted as an enforcer or Laurie and has 184 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:01,440 been directly involved in the deaths of two of her husband and then Alex conveniently 185 00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:07,679 dies. Yeah, I'm very suspicious there. I wonder if it was suicide 186 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,960 because he died. I think after hearing that they were about to exhume Tammy 187 00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:16,799 Dayville's body, and I think two days before he'd driven all the way to 188 00:14:16,879 --> 00:14:22,000 Mexico to buy some drugs and things. I'm not sure what pharmaceutical drugs there 189 00:14:22,039 --> 00:14:26,840 were, but he brought them back to Zulema and he had the same kind 190 00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:31,039 of thin stuff coming out of his mouth Tammy did. In fact, they 191 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,919 were talking about that yesterday at the trial, asphyxiation, But I don't know. 192 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,720 I personally wonder if Alex his heart gave way because he knew it was 193 00:14:39,759 --> 00:14:43,879 going to I was going to come down on him, and I think at 194 00:14:43,919 --> 00:14:46,360 that time he also didn't know where Laurie was. Laurie and Chadd had just 195 00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:52,159 disappeared for why he without telling anyone, And I think Zulema had said that 196 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,960 they were worried that they were the fool guys and they were going to take 197 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,440 the heat for what Chad and Laurie had done. I think it was all 198 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:03,399 coming back to Alex. But my god, if he if he hadn't died, 199 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,720 it would that would be really interesting. How did Laurie and Chad's beliefs 200 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:15,000 differ from those that are espoused by the Preparion of People and the LDS Church. 201 00:15:15,159 --> 00:15:18,120 If you had to categorize where they differed, what would you say is 202 00:15:18,159 --> 00:15:20,600 the biggest point of difference. I'm not a Mormon. I don't really know 203 00:15:20,679 --> 00:15:24,679 the church. But what I'm talking to some of people that followed Chad in 204 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:30,399 the beginning and then got they separated because they couldn't. But he was just 205 00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:35,320 out there and they didn't believe in one hundred and forty four thousand the Church 206 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,440 of the Firstborn. It was something that's against the Mormon religion. And then 207 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,639 he did things about how he and Laurie were sealed in a Mormon is in 208 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:48,039 a chapel or whatever. But that's what they would never do is heresy. 209 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:52,000 So I think that the Mormon Church, any believers, didn't want anything to 210 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,559 do with Chad and Laurie at that point. One of the things that we 211 00:15:56,639 --> 00:16:02,519 talked about on Mind over Murder recently is that how strange I thought it was 212 00:16:02,799 --> 00:16:06,240 that they went off to Hawaii, as if that was on the other side 213 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:07,639 of the world. Now, I lived in Hawaii when I was a kid. 214 00:16:07,799 --> 00:16:11,080 My dad was an able officer, and it was further away then than 215 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,559 it is now, because when we were kids, there were no satellites in 216 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:21,320 Hawaii felt like a very isolated place. This is back in the nineteen sixties. 217 00:16:21,879 --> 00:16:26,240 But I couldn't quite figure out if that was their version of running away. 218 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,759 They didn't even leave the Fifty States. It wasn't like they went somewhere 219 00:16:30,799 --> 00:16:34,480 where there was no opportunity to be forced to come back to the US to 220 00:16:34,559 --> 00:16:40,960 face trial or whatever, someplace without extradition. But they end up on a 221 00:16:41,039 --> 00:16:45,840 beach in Hawaii months after the disappearance of her children, weeks after the death 222 00:16:45,879 --> 00:16:49,159 of his wife. If I'm not mistaken, Yeah, doesn't it seem incredibly 223 00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:53,200 naive that they thought that going to Hawaii would be enough to move them off 224 00:16:53,200 --> 00:17:00,240 the radar in Idaho and Nevada naive? Definitely. My theory is Laurie's parents 225 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:06,240 always went to Hawaii. They loved Hawaii. Laurie spent as a child, 226 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,920 she was taken to Hawaii, she fell in love with it, and obviously 227 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:15,960 she moved to Hawaii with Charles Valo JJ andentily for I think few four years. 228 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,920 So there was always something about Hawaii that Laurie loved, and I think 229 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,160 it was part of her romantic dream with Chad to get married on the beach 230 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:27,880 in Hawaii. And I understand in fact, I think she'd married Joe Ryan 231 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,720 on a beach in Hawaii. That's when I was as lawyer. In fact, 232 00:17:33,079 --> 00:17:36,240 so I think that there was naivety, but that's where she felt that 233 00:17:36,599 --> 00:17:40,480 she needed to be with Chad. And of course the wedding was exactly two 234 00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:47,119 weeks that two weeks after Tammy died November the fifth, twenty nineteen. I 235 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:53,319 interviewed the say priests, but the clergyman that married them, very interesting take 236 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,720 on it. Yeah, and he couldn't believe it. He said, they 237 00:17:57,759 --> 00:18:02,720 couldn't wait. Usual league couples are getting married. They want to take that. 238 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:06,640 They want to get their full hours worth of the marriage. He said, 239 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,359 they couldn't wait to leave. They were out of there about forty minutes 240 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:15,759 later. Wow, he was quite pleased, I think. And the photographer 241 00:18:15,799 --> 00:18:19,799 interviews said they were very strange. Yeah, oh my gosh, in what 242 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,359 way were they strange from the like, from the photographer's point of view, 243 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,960 they were behaving like teenagers or and he's in his early fifties, she's late 244 00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:33,039 forties. Then I think and they're all over each other. And I think 245 00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:37,519 if you've seen the pictures, so he's not the guitar, but then the 246 00:18:37,599 --> 00:18:45,160 Hawaiian instrument is the ueah. That was all faked obviously, and the champagne 247 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:51,720 wasn't real champagne. When we were preparing for today's interview, Kristen said something 248 00:18:51,759 --> 00:18:56,920 funny, which is they describe Laurie as being very atrabuna with a long blonde 249 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,839 hair and so on. Chaddy Belt is at That's an average looking guy. 250 00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:06,400 He's not a movie star, handsome or anything like that. Right. Is 251 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:11,640 it the charisma that puts him across and connects him with so many people? 252 00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:15,839 What do you think it is? John? Yeah, I think he was 253 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,319 charismatic. People told me he was. He could give these talks with the 254 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:26,039 visuals of a North Korea and nuclear forces Kim yongum and talk about the end 255 00:19:26,079 --> 00:19:30,079 of the world, and he had this kind of charisma. And I think 256 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,400 for Laurie, she had very low self esteem. I think it fed into 257 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,480 telling her she was a goddess and he was going to say they were going 258 00:19:37,559 --> 00:19:41,839 to save the world together. I think he knew how to feed into her 259 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:47,359 ego in that way, and I think to chat he was a womanizer. 260 00:19:47,799 --> 00:19:51,960 He'd been married to Tammy. I heard from their friends in fact that there 261 00:19:52,079 --> 00:19:55,680 was They didn't really have much of a sex life. He was always complaining 262 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,880 about it, and he had a couple of relationships with followers of his book 263 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:04,079 by telephone. These affairs by I think he saw Laurie fawning over him and 264 00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:07,799 just attractive blonde and just thought, this is who I want to be with 265 00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:12,119 this. He just fell in love with the way she looked. And what 266 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,480 was interesting when they met, he was vastly overweight, very dumpy, double 267 00:20:17,559 --> 00:20:21,000 chimber. A few months of Lorrie, she gave him a total makeover. 268 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,720 You must have lost a lot of weight when you see the pictures laid out. 269 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,079 I think she gave him a makeover. But they were obviously in an 270 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:32,279 odd couple, but I think they fed into each other the sort of gasoline 271 00:20:32,279 --> 00:20:37,279 and oil they ignited in this horrible, disgusting way. You're listening to Mind 272 00:20:37,319 --> 00:20:45,480 over Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors. We're 273 00:20:45,519 --> 00:20:51,119 back here at Mind over Murder. You characterize him in the book as almost 274 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,519 been like a cult leader. Do you feel like that's the correct term for 275 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,960 him. Yeah, definitely. I spoke to guy called Rick Ross, who 276 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,759 is a cult expert. I've interviewed him for a few of my other books. 277 00:21:02,799 --> 00:21:06,319 He's very helpful, and he talked about it as being a cult of 278 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,440 two basically Chad and Laurie, and he said it's definitely a cult, you 279 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,440 know, in his that mentality, And there were more people. Obviously, 280 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,160 there was Melanie GiB Melanie gudro, Zulemma, Alex, there was a whole 281 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,640 group around them, and more names I heard during the trial which I've never 282 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:29,519 heard of before. So it was obviously bigger than just two. But it 283 00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:33,960 was definitely a cult that he was leading. I think delusional in that they 284 00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:38,759 think that beyond the cult leadership and focus that seems to come mostly from Chad 285 00:21:38,759 --> 00:21:42,079 and his writings, they really think they were going to be able to leave 286 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,559 a trail of dead bodies everywhere they went and get away with it. I 287 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,839 presumed they did. They did. They got away to Charles Valor and Arizona. 288 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,039 The police did investigate and they called it they thought it was a self 289 00:21:56,079 --> 00:22:00,880 defense, which was ridiculous. And that's one of the things we watched the 290 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:06,480 videos of them Alex, Laurie and Tylely being interviewed by the police there. 291 00:22:06,519 --> 00:22:10,680 It's pretty really interesting, especially Tyly. In fact, I don't know. 292 00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:14,640 I don't think she bought what her mother was selling at all. She was 293 00:22:14,759 --> 00:22:18,359 very sassy. Everybody said she would call her mother out a lot, but 294 00:22:18,559 --> 00:22:22,799 they supported that. Charles Vallo had come with a baseball bat and everything, 295 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,240 and as far as I see, Charles Vallo was a great husband. He 296 00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:30,480 couldn't believe what Laurie had turned into, and there was going to be an 297 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,960 intervention. I think Charles Vallow and Laurie's brother Adam, they were going to 298 00:22:34,039 --> 00:22:38,799 do an intervention with the parents, and that's when Laurie discovered what was happening 299 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,839 with emails, and Charles had even sent an email to Tammy talking about it, 300 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,200 and that's when he had to die. I think, yeah, I 301 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,000 think they obviously thought they would get away with it, and they did for 302 00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:53,400 a while. I think they would have gone away with it to a certain 303 00:22:53,519 --> 00:23:00,599 extent if Chad hadn't sent that email to Tammy when they were obviously burying entirely 304 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,279 and he said there's raccoon, so I've been burning limbs, and that emailed 305 00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:08,640 the smoking to talk about it at the trial yesterday, and that's what obviously 306 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,920 set That's where they found the kids. Otherwise and they think they would have 307 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:17,200 found them. Do you think that either of them would have resorted to this 308 00:23:17,279 --> 00:23:21,359 type of violence without the other good question. I really don't know, I 309 00:23:21,559 --> 00:23:25,079 said at the beginning, impossible to know. If they hadn't met each other, 310 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,440 maybe they just he would have gone carrying on writing his books and she 311 00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:33,640 would have been just going through more husbands and a lot more people would be 312 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,880 alive today. So it's really hard to know. I think. Do you 313 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,319 think that darkest impulse to actually kill people that are standing in the way, 314 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,640 do you think that comes more from Chad or from Laurie. I think Chad. 315 00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:48,680 I mean they were in his way. He didn't want the kids there, 316 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:52,319 they would go, He didn't want them around. Laurie wanted Laurie to 317 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,799 himself. They had to get away, he had to. I think they 318 00:23:56,799 --> 00:24:00,440 had to kill their spouses for insurance. That's what they were looking at. 319 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:06,400 A million dollars for Charles value. And Laurie didn't know that he'd actually changed 320 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,480 the beneficiary to Kay Woodcock, his sister, until after they killed Charles, 321 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,160 and then with Tammy I was reading today he got like about I think three 322 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:21,119 hundred and eighty thousand dollars pay out from insurance they paid him, and this 323 00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:23,640 is what he was spending in Hawaii, So I think that was a motivation 324 00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:29,400 to the money. I mean for the others, I think Laurie and maybe 325 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,640 Alex, it was like when they introduced the concept of zombies, and these 326 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,519 people are turned it being inhabited by zombies and the only way you could written 327 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,920 was to kill the body and that would free them spiritually, So you were 328 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,599 doing the best thing you can for them. And I think that's probably what 329 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:51,480 Alex believed. He probably believed that he was freeing jj and entirely by killing 330 00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:56,119 their bodies so their spirits could escape. It's bizarre to me. It really 331 00:24:56,279 --> 00:25:03,079 isn't horrific the Chad books. Does this zombie thing show up in any of 332 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,720 his earlier writing or was this a newer creation that he came up with as 333 00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:11,799 an excuse to kill off all of these people that were standing in their way. 334 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,000 Let's be honest. I read one of his books and I don't read 335 00:25:15,079 --> 00:25:22,119 anymore. It has done badly written out. I wouldn't recommend him as an 336 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,319 author, but I understand the zombie thing was quite late. He introduced that 337 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,640 later on, and that was his way. I think of getting rid of 338 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,160 Tidy and JJ because they were in his way. He didn't want them around. 339 00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:38,160 It's a flexible set of belief saying all the time. With him, 340 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,799 I think I just love the way that he had a definite date for the 341 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:48,559 end of the world. I think by some twentieth was it twenty twenty or 342 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,480 he was sitting in jail when that happened and the world did end. I 343 00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:56,359 just would have loved to have seen his face that day. That definitely would 344 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,720 have been something I would have wanted to be a fly on the wall for 345 00:25:59,799 --> 00:26:03,319 it. Definitely. Okay, So, as an English teacher, I am 346 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:08,160 always interested in the writing process for any author that we interview. So can 347 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,440 you tell me a little bit about your process. I've been trying to convince 348 00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:15,440 my students all year that they need to outline before they write a books. 349 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,920 They're either going to prove me right or you're going to prove me wrong. 350 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,160 Which is it going to be. I spent two or three months doing a 351 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:27,519 complete timeline of everything it can run to two or three hundred pages single space. 352 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:33,519 An incredibly aimal on this, but the timeline is the way it works. 353 00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:37,079 I can write through that and you can see things that you wouldn't seem 354 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,559 Ordinarily the coincide. My early books, I didn't really use a timeline except 355 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,319 for maybe there was some event that I really wanted to get into detail. 356 00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:49,279 But for the last few years I do a complete timeline of everything, and 357 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,160 it's really paid off, I think because you can see things much more clearly. 358 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,039 Because I had so much research for this. Say, this whole room 359 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,880 was just full of files and every thing, and to have to remember where 360 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,799 everything was without a timeline will be impossible. I was going to say, 361 00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:08,559 it really pays off for this book, just in terms of very so much 362 00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:12,119 to this case that I remember when we first started hearing about it, we 363 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,960 were like, who died when and where and under what circumstances. It was 364 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,839 so helpful to get your book and to finally see it laid out in order. 365 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,039 I was like, oh, that's the order it happened. Now it 366 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,599 very much helped. Yeah, it's hard to get your mind around it. 367 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,359 In my new book, which is about the Murdochs, in South Carolina. 368 00:27:32,599 --> 00:27:37,200 I'm just more complicated. I think really I had probably had a lot more 369 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,799 than I had on Laurie Valo for that one. The research it really was 370 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,960 confusing. Timeline would be the only way you understand that. And we do 371 00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:48,480 want to talk to you about that very much because we are so interested in 372 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,319 the Murdoch case. As you put together the timeline, and I know you're 373 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,759 very research driven, does it come to mind that there's even more research required? 374 00:27:57,799 --> 00:28:02,079 Do you see gaps in the people that you've talked to? Are the 375 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,799 people that you'd like to talk to? Absolutely? I see a timeline. 376 00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:07,599 I'm going through it. I think I've got to find I've got more questions 377 00:28:07,599 --> 00:28:11,720 I want to ask and things. So a timeline is very good for that. 378 00:28:11,839 --> 00:28:15,119 And I try and get as many people as I can to talk and 379 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,480 that's very important. But the timeline is invaluable when getting seeing things from different 380 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:25,960 perspectives and getting the right questions. How many different levels of agreement will you 381 00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:29,799 have? You mentioned a moment ago that there was a friend of Laurie's that 382 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:36,279 obviously you interviewed, but didn't want to be cited by name. So how 383 00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:40,160 do you so you work that in but under the pseudonym. But you provide 384 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,599 the information without clearly stating who it is. Yeah, I use a pseudonym 385 00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:48,240 and then I put in parentheses not her real name. When you're reading the 386 00:28:48,279 --> 00:28:52,079 book, you know that it's not. I don't like using a source, 387 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,559 said I like to real person. But she was obviously I connect him a 388 00:28:56,599 --> 00:29:00,759 lot of people on social media, and they did not want their names coming 389 00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:04,319 out as being close to them. So you have to go along with that 390 00:29:04,839 --> 00:29:10,839 and understandable too. I think are you able to obscure enough detail those so 391 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,599 that we can't figure out who or why happened to be? I think people 392 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,400 this school friend. I think her friends probably could work it out actually, 393 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:25,000 but for the reader probably less of a chance of figuring out, oh, 394 00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:29,039 that's actually who went to high school with Laurie. Unless you had a class 395 00:29:29,119 --> 00:29:32,960 photograph or something. You went through everybody, But no, I know, 396 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,400 I expect their privacy. They talked to me on the understanding that I wouldn't 397 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,839 give their real names. How many people did you end up interviewing for this 398 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,200 book? Do you think? Oh, god, probably fifty or sixty. 399 00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:48,640 Wow, I'd have to look through a lot. Yeah, we're so excited 400 00:29:48,759 --> 00:29:52,480 about your upcoming book on the Rodock murder is because we have been covering it 401 00:29:52,599 --> 00:29:56,519 a lot here on Mind Over Murder. That too, is such a super 402 00:29:56,559 --> 00:30:00,799 complex case, like you were saying a few minutes ago, tell us a 403 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,640 little bit about it ahead and give us the elevator pitch on it and tell 404 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,160 us when it's coming out. You give us all the details, and we're 405 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,039 so excited to hear about it. I'm not going to give you too many 406 00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:14,480 of the details. I want to say. I've got a lot of new 407 00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:18,480 stuff in there, a lot of good interviews, and I don't want that 408 00:30:18,599 --> 00:30:22,519 to come out before the book comes out. That it was lucky because I 409 00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:27,000 finished the book and then the publisher left two I have two chapters at the 410 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,839 end for the trial, which I you know, so I covered the trial 411 00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:36,160 totally in that. So that was a good ending. That was a very 412 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,720 complicated book, and there's so many different facets of it. And it's not 413 00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:45,680 just Alex Murdoch, it's the whole history of the Murdoch family. Ridge is 414 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,799 in the fourteenth District and South Carolina, and they really ruled it, you 415 00:30:49,839 --> 00:30:55,680 know, like medieval kings in a way, and they go around to themselves. 416 00:30:55,799 --> 00:31:00,039 And I spent three weeks down there last year again talking to people and 417 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,920 everything, getting the real fuel of it. And it's just a very fascinating 418 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,720 case, I think, totally different than this running fair. They're both fascinating, 419 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:14,519 but very different. It sounds like there's just so much to the murder 420 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:22,039 case, and there are decades upon decades of corruption and political influence peddling, 421 00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:26,440 and it's unbelievable how much has gone on with that family and that law firm. 422 00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:30,160 Yeah, there were a law unto themselves and they got away with it 423 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,519 for years. But if it really hadn't been for Pool and that the boating 424 00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:38,519 accident Dream was drunk he crashed the boat and killed Malory Beach, this never 425 00:31:38,519 --> 00:31:42,240 would have had come out or anything. That was what really sparked everything, 426 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:48,519 and they couldn't really hide it any longer. Had you submitted the manuscript for 427 00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:52,519 the book by the time it came out that Stephen Smith was being exhumed, 428 00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:56,480 how did you feel about that? No, I think that the book had 429 00:31:56,519 --> 00:32:00,119 gone suppressed by then. I didn't meet Sandy his mind who I went to 430 00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:06,279 a benefit to raise money for the headstone in Columbia that's when I first went 431 00:32:06,319 --> 00:32:07,960 in there, so I met his mother, Sandy, I met his sister, 432 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,480 who's really sweet, and then it meant a lot to them to find 433 00:32:12,519 --> 00:32:16,480 out what really happened, because they know that Stephen was murdered, and yet 434 00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:21,119 they couldn't get anybody to take it seriously. It was all pushed under the 435 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,200 carpet and hushed up. So at long last, there's a chance of finding 436 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,960 out, you know what really happened. Now. The Doomsday Mother, your 437 00:32:29,119 --> 00:32:34,480 Laurie Valo Chad Day book came out on Saint Martin's Press. Is your next 438 00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:37,640 book, Tangled Vines coming out under Saint Martin's as well? Yes, it 439 00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:42,279 is. All my true crime books, I'm proud to say have come under 440 00:32:42,519 --> 00:32:45,480 Saint Martin's Press. I've been with them for over twenty five years now, 441 00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:50,000 so I'm very proud of that. How does that happen? By the way, 442 00:32:50,119 --> 00:32:53,839 most authors we know move around, Yet you've been with the same house 443 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,440 for all of these years. Absolutely, because they say it's a very good 444 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:04,680 relationship with my editor, Charles Spicer and his staff, and it works really 445 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,079 well. I think I like working for them and they seem to like me, 446 00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:10,680 So it's good. As I said, I'm in the true crime section 447 00:33:10,759 --> 00:33:15,319 of Barnston Ebold most every weekend, and your books are never out of print, 448 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,599 They're always there, so I'm always excited when a new one comes out. 449 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,680 And so when I was paging through and I saw, oh, John 450 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,640 Glatt's got another new book coming out in August, I was like, Okay, 451 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,440 we absolutely have to see if we can get him to come on, 452 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,920 and we do want to have you back when Tangled Minds releases. This has 453 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,759 really being great talking to you. I do want to ask one more thing 454 00:33:37,799 --> 00:33:43,400 with regard to the Murdoch case. Do you think Gloria Saderfield's case should be 455 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,119 given another look? Absolutely? I just read Obviously the murder case has now 456 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:52,720 been resolved. He's but a sadder field case. I just read this afternoon. 457 00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:58,240 I think he's through his lawyer. He's given a reply to the Nautiless, 458 00:33:58,759 --> 00:34:02,319 and Nautiless was the big insurance company, and he's now admitting that the 459 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,720 dogs didn't push Glorious at a Field down the stairs. He made that up, 460 00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:10,159 and that she was you can't remember if she wasn't, if she was 461 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:15,480 there to work or not, which would have invalid the whole insurance thing that 462 00:34:15,559 --> 00:34:19,360 just came out. I just read that today, in fact involving there's all 463 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:24,079 these financial cases. I think there's like a hundred different things against him. 464 00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:28,920 There there's a lot more coming out, and the same judge, the same 465 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,400 prosecutor, and everything is going to be a lot to watch. Such an 466 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,440 amazing case and the level of corruption, it just goes deeper and deeper. 467 00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:42,920 It's quite amazing. Yeah, it's taken the whole of Hampton down anyway. 468 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,559 I think the lawyers and the police are under investigation. It's just a very 469 00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:52,119 corrupt system that's been like that for so many years. It is nice to 470 00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:59,119 finally see some of that dirt coming up finally say now that tangled vines is 471 00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:01,039 about to go to us, what are you working on now? Are you 472 00:35:01,079 --> 00:35:04,280 able to share any of that? Are you going to keep it under wraps 473 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:09,400 for a little bit. I'm taking the summer off. I haven't really stop 474 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,159 books for a while, so I think I need a few months off, 475 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,519 get a fresh air, and everything come up for air. I picture a 476 00:35:16,599 --> 00:35:23,199 whiteboard somewhere John, where you've got all these ideas for your next book after 477 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,119 the summer, and you're well deserved time off. Right, it's right there. 478 00:35:30,199 --> 00:35:36,960 I'll let the records show that John is turning the camera and showing us 479 00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:40,719 his white board appears to be more of a bulletin board with ideas and pictures. 480 00:35:43,119 --> 00:35:45,159 I noticed you didn't zoom in, though, so we couldn't tell quite 481 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:52,199 what you were working on. So what are you going to do this summer 482 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,280 while you have the time off? I don't know, look for different ideas, 483 00:35:55,320 --> 00:36:01,039 and I'm doing something for doing grating car who's the editor of Vanity Fair. 484 00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:06,519 His website airmail. They commissioned me. I've written a piece about a 485 00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:12,159 murder that happened in Swinging London in nineteen sixty seven. That's coming out in 486 00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:15,400 a couple of weeks. I think that's something I've been working on, and 487 00:36:15,519 --> 00:36:20,039 I'm looking around for other ideas. It's a fun background, although once again, 488 00:36:20,119 --> 00:36:25,519 you're working on a murder. You said you're up in the Catskills. 489 00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:30,800 Whereabouts? Do you know? Woodstock is thirty five miles west of Woodstock? 490 00:36:31,039 --> 00:36:37,840 Bellski Center live in. That nearest town is Margaretville. I don't know where 491 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:44,079 are you based. I'm in Virginia and Bell is in Connecticut. Right, 492 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,480 Yeah, the book is The Doomsday Mother Laurie Vallo, Chad Jay Bell and 493 00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:52,760 the End of an American Family by John Glatt, currently out in stores, 494 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:58,679 available on Amazon and wherever you get your books. And we're looking forward to 495 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,519 having John back to talk to us about Tangled Vines when that releases in August. 496 00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:07,400 That's going to do it for this episode of mind Over Murder. Thank 497 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:20,679 you so much for listening. We'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder 498 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:25,760 is a production of Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are 499 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:31,119 Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our 500 00:37:31,199 --> 00:37:37,239 theme music is by Kevin McLeod. Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with 501 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:42,519 Coral Space Media. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 502 00:37:42,599 --> 00:37:45,559 You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, 503 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:51,519 and finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas five six. 504 00:37:52,039 --> 00:38:30,360 Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.