You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network and now it's time for the Paranormal
peep Show. Hi, welcome to the Paranormal keep Show with some very special
interesting information we hope, which has just been breaking the last kind of week
and a bit, and we've brought in our special friend ben Emlyn Jones.
But first i'd introduce Andy Chaplin. Welcome back to the Paranormal peep Show.
Andy. Hello, Neil, how are you doing. We're fine? You
getting on right in the sun. Is it too hot for you or you've
been calling down or it's too warm for me. I'm more of a temperate
or a cool person rather than a warm Loads of people love warm weather.
Like a little bit warm. It's okay, but it's getting muggy and oppressive.
Now I need a thunderstorm, so that's what I'm after. Yeah,
they've been talked about thunderstorms tonight. Actually it has rained a bit today,
so maybe that might happen. I kind of fit it in the air as
it were. Yeah, but things are hotting up in other areas, so
that's why we brought in our special guests for the Seedion. That's ben Emlyn
Jones. Welcome back, Ben, Hello, Hello Andy, Hello Neil,
thanks for invioting me back. And I mean it's yeah, in all modesty,
you've chosen the perfect person for this kind of subject. I must say,
it's Yeah's So, these are really amazing times and it's um a very
very exciting and situation has emerged. It's happened very suddenly. Who was not
really expected at that point. It was just obviously this is this sort of
thing has been expected now for a few months since the the Gilla Brand Amendment
came into force. This is the twenty twenty two National Defense Authorization Act,
which once that came into law, which was which it did, I believe
on Boxing Day, there was always a there was always a possibility that something
like this would happen because what that amendment does is it's essentially it could function
as essentially a truth and reconciliation a piece of legislation when it when it comes
to things such as UFOs. What she's basically saying is anyone involved in UFO
projects who took security oaths would know and would no longer be obliged to to
keep these things confidential, keep whatever was in their nondisclosure Roumann dential, so
long as they revealed it properly. In other words, they could reveal it
to Congress. Doesn't mean they could just go and tell all their mates,
but it did mean that they could testify before Congress, which has happened now
and so so to clarify, then we got this story of this this guy
called David Grash. Is that his name Grush? Yes day Rathols Grush or
Grass? And he is part of or was part of the American Air Force.
I don't I don't know if he was air Force. He was at
the US Air Force for a while, but hell then he actually moved more
recently to the National g Space Intelligence Agency and the National Constance Office excuse me,
and he yeah. For twenty nineteen, he was actually involved with the
Unidentified Area Phenomenal Task Force, the infamous UAPTF for ARROW as it is now
called, and he was actually involved in he was actually involved in the report,
the famous twenty twenty two UAPTF report. He was actually involved in creating
lads. So what happened once he left government service in April of this year
became an estate agent? How long he did so, he contacted the journalist
Ross Coultart and Australian journalist who specializes in UFOs, and said, you know,
I've got things I want to talk to you about. I don't I
don't have any documented proof of this, and I can't give you documented proof
because I've put in in a formal I put in a formal complaint with the
inspector with the parliament Defense Inspector General. I've got a lawyer who's a former
Inspector General. But I've got I want to make a complaint about the kind
of material I've had to deal with and the secrecy behind it, which I
think is unlawful. It's unconstitutional. Um, So I want to talk to
you about even though I can't prove it. And so Coultart did a big
interview with him, which is going to which is there's been a few clips
to published, but this is going to go live at the time we're recording
Sunday evening. It's going to go live apparently in the early hours or tomorrow
morning. It's a classic classic, isn't it really? Because the everything to
have nine to eleven and Iraq and Afghanistan was cloak behind this this wall of
secrecy. Oh, it's national security can't talk about it, Oh, national
security can't talk about it. So anything they don't want to talk about they
just throw up national security, which could mean anything. Really, it's such
a broad you know, dragnet spectrum, and it's a perfect way of shutting
it down. But Ben, do you do you think there's something slightly I
don't know about the word sinister, but slightly fishy about Suddenly all the news
outlets are saying, well, actually, yes, aliens do exist, and
there are people seeing aliens everywhere, and now the government whistle blowers are saying,
oh, actually yeah, we have got crashed down alien aircraft. All
at the same time, it's just a little bit, a little bit project
blue beamished for me. Well, this has been going on now, it's
just twenty seventeen, since the summer twenty seventeen when Leslie Cane and Ralph bloomanhor
published their famous New York Times article. And since then you'l right, the
the it's as if a this is not obviously disclosure didn't happened on that day.
But APOLL, which was over for seventy five years. It was actually
seventy five years and five months a policy came to an end, and we
can time it very precisely because we can date it to the sending of the
cut the Twining Memo in July of nineteen forty seven, in which General Admiral
Roscoe Hillen Cutter, the first head of the CIA, actually stated that UFO
should be treated in the media with official ridicule and denial. And that's indeed
what we got for all that time, and then suddenly it changes. For
whatever reason it changes and why it changes. The important thing. Is it
because there is some kind of division within within the establishment and someone that actually
want disclosure or is it some kind of psychological operation leading to some kind of
fake disclosure which which would just drag us deeper and deeper into whatever kind of
future regime the establishment has planned. That's a that's the very very important question
to ask. Yeah, and this could be of this could be a part
of the latter I hope not, but it could be an somebody got beyond
our guard against Richard Dolan said something interested in because he was kind of reading
out this report as it came in as he was actually at a UFO conference,
and news and broke whilst he was on the third day of a UFO
conference. That's the place to be, isn't it. Yeah. Yeah,
that was literally hot off the press. And so he said, why is
this story of downed craft being released now, you know? And he said,
well, it could mean that there's someone somewhere that thinks there's some money
to be made out of it. Now that's not to say on a commercial
value for entertainment purposes, like let's make movies and videos and interviews and magazines,
but actually from the technology he was speaking about, like you could could
we re engineer the craft and someone in the aviation industry that events industries make
some money out of it in some way. But then again, if you
think back to it, or we've had stories of downed craft going around for
years, you know, different authors have alluded to it in various books over
the years, of course, as the Roswell story from nineteen forty seven,
which was always He's the big one the people referred to as a down craft,
and supposedly Corso in his book The Day After Roswell talked about how he
was involved Lieutenant Carso, how he was involved in the farming out of this
Roswell technology, the crash DUFO technology out to the industry. He didn't necessarily
say what it was. I think it was a foreign intelligence division sort of
saying this is captured foreign technology. That's what they were told. And you
can do with it what you can make, as much man as you want
from it, he was told, or that he said to them, but
basically, give us the results back. We want everything you've found, and
we need to sort of see what you've done, because obviously they're not going
to hand out this technology. It's only private company and expect nothing can return.
They want their experts and their research to come back with what they could
do with it as well. Yeah, that's just this is basically indeed,
you're right, Lots and lots of people have been talking about it for a
very very long time and writing about it and swearing is true. What's amazing
about gracious testimony is it's completely unequivocal. It's one dimensional, it's simple,
and it's blunt. And he then he he doesn't own an r at all
about it, he says them and Colt I'd asked him, what have you
actually gathered and he said, extratrasical spacecraft and the corpses of non human pilots.
He actually said that in every single word he said in just eclips I've
seen so far, these highlights have been a confirmation of everything conspiratorial uthologists have
been saying for decades, and we've been laughed at, and now suddenly this
guy comes along and he's just he's not sort of like shrugging his shoulder.
He's very different to ailet his Ondo, who said, well, yes,
but I can't say too much about it. I can't really confirmed deny that.
You know, he's he's saying, oh no, this is what it
is. He's it's um, it's a strangely, it's it's it's it's a
strangely a big print style statement, and that, to me, it makes
me wonder all again, there's only two what could it be. It could
be a stage he could be he could be a herald of some real declassification
big dedisclosure. Or it could be some kind of psychoch It could be several
things. It could be he's completely lost his mind and he has decided to
commit professional and social suicide. That's another possibility, although he's doing it in
a very elaborate way, you know, star hiring solicitors going through the two
dops of the Department Defense, what's it calls trashurst pe publication review and things
like that. Because he he's been described as a whistleblower. That's actually inaccurate.
He's not a whistleblower. He is cooperating fully with the authorities through which
he previously worked and they have given their approval of what he's saying. This
doesn't mean they say what he's saying is true. They're just they're just stating
that what he says does not breach any that's he does not breach anything.
He doesn't breach any anything classified. And the skeptics of interpreted this in a
very simplistic and ungenerous way, saying, well, the regional he doesn't breach
anything. It is because all these things don't exist anyway. So they're just
gonna let him. They're just gonna rub a stamp his folly or that's one
way lucky that Or it could be that this is, like I said,
a herald to a declassification on their part, see what it means. Could
it could be that instead? So yeah, I mean, I bobblars are
comes to mind from the early nineties or the late eighties, when he was
coming out as a supposedly a guy that worked on back engineering flying sources in
S four part of the dreamland kind of what do they call it? That
area area one type of thing. I mean, do you think that lends
credence to what bobblers are spoken about all those years back? Well, I
mean Gruci is the first person since Bobblers Are first came out in nineteen eighty
nine to speak to to speak about this sort of thing so explicitly. You
know, he's he has he presumably has had to sign the same secrecos as
lu Alsondo. Yeah, lu Alsondo is very very cautious. Whenever he says
anything about anything, he treads very carefully, whereas Rushed does not. Now
Galizondo nose grush and in fact he he congratulated him when he first came out
when he did his first interview. There's an interview came out in the debrief
as well, which is like it's deals with military and technology and things like
that. It's an online magazine. Um, we still knows. What's happening
now is we're waiting for the big, big interview tomorrow, waiting for this
to hit the headlines. It's see it has been covered by all the major
mainstream media outlets, but Olier sort of page ten and twelve stories. So
at some point probably there's going to be a daily Star headline. You know,
well, he's just not the typical one, which, yeah, what's
that magazine choir? Yeah you said you said you were talking out of uranus
and things like that. You know, yeah, it'd be somewhat a headline
like that. But at some point some it's going to hit the headlines.
And there's what's happening now is there's already moved a foot to start and congressional
hearings like the ones we've just had that they're going to be very, very
different because I really can't see how they can have the kind of hearings they've
had up till now with just Jilli, Brandon Kirkpatrick's sitting around the table.
It's good, there's going to be have to be people, have to be
swell, sworn in. It's going to have to structure, and I can't
imagine they can have a public hearing without Grush himself testifying. Hmm. I
think he's gonna he wants to testify, which means that he's We're not going
to get any guys dressed up in alien seats again like we did in the
night. Oh like, well, we're in Arizona. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, that's fine. It's interesting you brought that up, actually because five
Symington, he was the governor of Arizona at the time. He submitted.
Now he lied. He said that I was lying because they didn't want to
start a panic. But it wasn't just for airs. Something really big flew
over the city that day. I saw it, but I couldn't I couldn't
tell people that because I thought they'd be rioting in the streets, people fleeing
the city, things like that. And he asked, confessed. The question
is like he's probably there's many others who have done something similar are not confessed.
M So the fact is that he's got our record and says the US
and other countries is not just the US have recovered extraterrestrial alien technology craft downcraft.
Why are we all suddenly sitting up and taking notice of him? Now?
I mean, when we've got these stories circulating in UFO books for years,
We've had Stephen Greer movies with Witness Testament is talking about the very same
thing. Why is everybody sitting up and taking notice. Now it's it could
be to the nature of the man himself, his background, the fact that
he was involved within the establishment, including the UAPTF, and also the fact
that he is speaking in such an explicit tone. I mean, he's you
see, he he's will see far more attention actually than Luellasondo, probably because
of the nature of what he's talking about. And no doubt there's going to
be massive body language and the analysis and statement that's just done on Henry and
Richard D. Hall is polishing his magic wand right now you know Peter m
So, but there's there's there's probably gonna be a lot of that. He's
already the skeptics have already to hit back, as they've they've hit back in
quite a halfhearted way, and they have they've just they've there's about five different
points they keep repeating and they haven't and they've been all been they've all been
discredited by people including me, and now they've sort of gone quite Mick West
has kind of like gone a bit quiet. Now he's heated an interview with
News Nation. So Stanton Freedman is around today. They're late Stanton Freedman,
what do you think he would be saying, because they'd be rushing to him
to interview him, wouldn't they. Oh I missed that guy so much,
um and I wish I wish he had survived to to to see this.
Ever, be basically saying pretty much, what is on my T shirt?
Actually, we can show you my T shirt. Sure, I'm wearing a
very appropriate T shirt this evening, and just get a picture of my own
camera. It has a little flying saucer that ac Yeah has the words told
you so? I thought where that deliberately because the thing is ben that that
could apply to so many things. Well, it's got the flying saucer.
Yeah, we could have applied on other things in the jib jabs and also
it could yeah exactly. I mean it just changed the image at the top
and it covered everything. Yeah exactly. I think there are T shirts like
that as well. Yeah, so yees standon would be Stan would be he'd
be over the moon, he'd be really enthralled, he'd be probably he probably
would be interviewed by a lot of people. I know. The people who
are involved in X politics now are those who have commented to the media.
Have they've been basically saying and this is kind of like what we would be
we'd be telling you this was going to happen. It has happened. This
is a products. It's probably a very very good sign. At the chiller
Brandon Mondment is doing his job. And the next stage I think is the
hearings. It's um more investigation, more interviews, and slowly but surely this
this secret what an ideal solution would be for within the next couple of months.
This in all the information that the government has been keeped secret about UFOs
to come out. That's an ideal solution. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.
It got to be cautious that this will either something will happen to scuff
but this I don't know, but there's probably I know for a fact,
there's some kind of conflict going on within the establishment because the White House has
said absolutely nothing. Now this hand before, do you remember object Gate?
Do we do a show about that? About the shootdowns of various things?
Right, Oh, this is the balloons. You're following the balloons. Well,
there there was a balloon shot down. About the balloons, yeah,
yeah, there was one balloon shot down. Then there were four other objects.
They refused to call them anything other than objects that were downed over the
US and Canada. Now, basically, the Department of Defense was doing lots
and lots of press conces where they were talking about this. The White House
said absolutely nothing. The White House Press Secretary Karine Jean Pierre made a joke
about how she liked the film et and that was it. Then the following
of Thursday was actually a whole week later. See had President Biden finally sort
of hobbled out on the stage and that a few things and then hobbled back
to say Spider said absolutely nothing. M Jean Pierre herself was actually asked this
question at a press conference. Um, someone said, you know, if
we're not could you would you tell us? Are you going to tell us
alleging the US military has been retrieving car after non human origin for several days?
Now what What what she said was, I think you should refer that
question to the Department of Defense and lend them answer it. And then that
was the end of the subject. There will say no coming in that theater
that they were. But the thing is like, it's weird that it's weird
that there also Susan Gough of She actually said that there was no evidence to
all, et cetera, that this has been going on. Basically, this
indicates that the White House, that is the US federal executive it's not really
involved in this. Yeah, they're coming out with a very different message to
the DoD and that's the Pentagon and the military establishment, and they've they come
up with a very very different message, and it's a very brief and really
non meaningless message. I said, President Biden hasn't said a word. She
said just she told the report to go and ask the DD don't ask me.
I'm only I'm only the press secretary for the guy who runs the country.
Yeah, indicating that he This indicates I think that there's the commander in
chief. I think the commander in chief of the military. And while he
doesn't you know, I'm sure he's not the one making the decisions. She's
the figurehead when he can stand on his feet. Ye. They whoever's whoever's
running the White House right now, has nothing to do with this. They're
not involved in this, and they probably have. This has all come out
without their authorization. Well, this is all the I mean, these things
are being kept under wraps. So it said for decades through different administrations,
and it's like only some of those administrations appear to be read into what's going
on. Maybe Reagan was given a brief at the time. There has been
a book I think about what what presidents are told or what they know.
Jimmy Carter allegedly cited a UFO Reagan a cited one. Did not Reagan say
when when he watched ET he said, if only the world knew how real
this was or something? Yeah, that's what Steven Spielberg alleged to happen.
When they had a special screen of EAT at the White House. He overheard
Reagan either say to him or someone that there's only so many people in this
room that know the real truth of going on. It's just remarkable exactly how
how united up till now, up until now, basically up until the last
couple of years, that the political classes of the world have been behind this
topic. As you say, it doesn't matter which party happens to be in
power at the time in the United States. It also doesn't matter which country
you're in. Because Grush actually said, you know, our allies are also
involved in this. Our allies have a materials recovery program, and presumably adversary
adversarial countries like China and Rush also do. In fact, I know for
a fact, Russia does. Russia has a Russia ever since the Soviet era
has been had a very very productive um you know, harvest of this kind
of thing and so. And the thing is this, this this policy has
has not actually been there's not actually no one's deviated from this policy ever until
basically the December twenty seventeen, for example, in Brazil, when there was
a UFO crash retribute in nineteen ninety six in Brazil, and the Brazilian authorities
immediately capitulated to the US administration. The US sent a plane over that landed
at an airport without authorization. The air traffic controllers really was really angry about
it, and they said, no, no, just laid in land and
it says dangerous. We could have planes taken off on that runway. It's
not just then to come down. The Americans just waited it. This was
an invasion of Brazil, essentially, they said, you know, they went
straight to the military base where this material had been taken, like debris and
a couple of bodies, and they just whisked it off to the United States.
It's very humiliating for the Brazilians. Actually, they were very upset about
that this pattern is repeated around the world. It's something else happened in South
Africa that was very similar, and there's many many others it's happened in this
country. And this goes back a long way. For example, the funny
thing is Alizondo alluded to this, but in a very you see, Grush
did an interview with the French newspaper. He talked about something that was actually
written about on The Blackfold had a guest article by Roberto Ponotty called the Fascist
UFO Files. It's a very dramatic title and it refers to an incidant in
Magenta in nineteen to thirty three in Magenta, Italy where an object three objects
actually came down a cigar shaped object in two sources, and these were basically
was there was a Roswell style incident. This was more than fifteen years before
Roswell in another country. And in nineteen forty five, when the Mussolini regime
fell in Italy, the Americans basically stole it and took it to the United
States. And this is what Grush talks about it's clearly quite something. Talking
about the Second World War. There's also a quote I think from Winston Churchill
about these alleged food fighters. And we're not talking about the music band here.
They were named after this, but the food fighters were these strange objects
that pilots claimed to see whizzing about in the skies as they were battling the
Germans and the Japanese in the Second World War. And Winston Churchill back,
we've got to think back then, like UFOs weren't really a thing, Aliens
weren't really things. They didn't really know what they were. I suppose he
had war the world slightly earlier, but it was it was kind of not
really in the public consciousness as much as they are now. And Winston Churchill
said it was, i think from memory, a high priority to find out
what these food fighters were, and then it just got buried and nobody ever
talked about it again. Yeah, he had a special project run by the
RAAF from nineteen forty two and he said that this was the priority was so
high. He said that this must not be released to the public. And
you know he was afraid of He said he was afraid that if the people,
the general public, there will be there will be nationwide panic if this
got out. And this was at a time, Sorry Andy, but this
this was a time when we had bombs dropping on our head. Yeah,
we had rationing, we did. We didn't know Hitlok could be landing it
over any day. Now we had our fathers, our sons, our brothers
going off to foreign fields to die, people dying in their homes. Yet
and the British people, we you know, we cope with that with enormous
stoicism and bravery. Yet Churchill was afraid we would panic if we knew about
about alien About this, I think one of the things that he was also
worried about religion being upset as well. This was held actually by the book
He's Institute many years later in nineteen fifty nine, that somehow the churches wouldn't
survive if they if we knew we were not the only intelligent being in the
universe. This is I doubt that. Actually, I think the churches will
be absolutely fine. They coat with Darwin in his impact, they can cope
with anything. And there's also this theory of when was the radio show for
War of the World nineteen thirty eight, and there's this theory that it was
actually a test run to see how the public would react to a reel.
They knew it was obviously a real alien invasion and people were going out with
rifles, shooting at water towers and things like that. So do you think
that probably had an impact on Churchill's summation that people would panic? And it
may not have been created for that purpose, but you bet all the psychological
warfare operators at that time we're watching were interested in people's reaction. I mean
Austin Wells, the director, ends up in court over the matter. Yeah,
actually he had to go to court to charge. I can't remember what
it was all about, but he was charged. Was something serious. So
as a result, and you can bet that the people's responses to that,
which, as you said, was there was a lot of nation wide panic.
People were getting into their cars and driving out of the cities. They
were they were raiding shops, There were all kinds of things were going on
when they heard this radio show, which was a piece of docu drama.
It was a fiction, and you can bet people that probably people thought,
right, if we ever say anything real like this is going on, it
doesn't have to be an invasion. It could just be you know, as
the Brookings reports said, it could be like debris on other planets, ancient
ruins on the Moon or mars Um. They probably thought, well, we
don't want this happen, because you see, the political classes have a very
low opinion as a general population. They I think they just I don't think
we would panic. I think most people would probably be pretty indifferent to it.
Actually, I think right now there's been so much predictive programming in terms
of the movies and programs, and you know, everyone seen ancient aliens.
I think most people's reaction would be yeah, we know that, Yeah,
we'll see to see yeah yeah grun Ben. So I was gonna say this,
that may be the purpose behind some of these programs, or certainly people
who watched these programs, they will have been carefully monitored. Public reactions to
these programs will have been carefully monitored. Yeah yeah. Getting back to the
food fighters, I recall reading, I think in a Timothy Good book about
food fighters, there was one report, if if I remember it correctly,
where a Lancaster bomber had a one of these food fighters, one of these
small red spheres, glowing spheres or whatever they're were described as actually coming up
through the bombay doors that are open and flying around the inside of the fuselage
of the of the bomber and then flew out again. You know, it
was seen by all the people inside that in the Lancaster bomber. So that's
that's amazing, isn't it, Because like obviously the food fight is varied in
size. Some of them were structured craft of a particular size, but some
of them were literally just small spheres, that's right, small balls of light,
and obviously they have the ability abilities that human aircraft don't have. This
is one of the what Alexander calls the five observables. So I'll come across
the report. There's two reports. Actually, there's quite a few reports that
I'm coming across that I put on my Facebook time all. So this is
one from the Gloucestershire Live Red Arrows display at air show joined by quote alien
aircraft at West Country Air Show. I've dropped a link in the chat so
you guys can have a look at it. It looks like some weird object
that has decided to join the Red Arrows for their display. But also I
came across and this is even more bizarre. Let's have a look there we
are. So this is an America seems having in America, and it is
the Daily Start, but it has been reported in other places. And there
is a video as well, UFO filmed crashed in garden before Panics nine eleven
call and you actually see you actually see the green kind of ball of light
land to the earth. But here's where it gets interesting. And then they
saw an eight foot figure looking at us. Yeah, that's a that's I
mean, I have a very low opinion of that particular story, the second
one, the first one that was really quite extraordinary. Um now, why
would you have a bad opinion on the second one before we get into the
first one? All right, it's because there there's a some there's some suggestion
that the boy, the young boy who who phoned the police and came up
this idea actually was trying to create a bit of viral marketing for his NFTs.
He was making Aliens style NFTs, so it could be a hoax.
Yeah. And then yeah, I can't remember all the details right now,
but I little article about it because I was talking to several people about it
and and I also mean that it happened on made it first, and it
wasn't actually published for five weeks. And I can't help thinking that George Napp,
who actually worked for that particular news station, probably thought and published it
now because you'll have a better reception than it would. And the guy I
thinks he uploaded a video at the same time on his YouTube channel, which
indicates that he had four knowledge of that. I don't. I don't know
for certain. I just it's there was. It appears there was something in
the garden and the people sound genuinely scared. That's what the red arrow of
things. That's interesting because there was a there's something similar happened that the Platinum
Jubilee last year. It did. It did. Yeah. Weird about at
that time was two separate camera angles captured the object. There was a white
sphere, small white sphere probably about four of hightly cross And you know what
because because it was captured, because two camera angles captured, it could be
triangulated his actual position and everything like that. Yeah, And it was very
odd because it was not moving like any kind of balloon or drone or anything
like that. I mean, drones would drones would never be permitted to fly
down a red arrow displame and I'll be deadly Yeah. Actually, yeah,
oh that's the one. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. Yeah.
So what I can see is a very small white dot in the red trail
of the colored smoke coming out. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Yes,
And that was captured from another camera angle on the ground. Yeah,
exactly where it was. Yeah, it's about it's about four feet across,
it's uh yeah, and it was moving in a way that is I say,
indicate it was not firstly, as you say, it's not. Drones
wouldn't be permitted to fly at that time, be very very dangerous for the
red arrows getting over and anyone, anyone kind of like wanting to view this,
do have a look at it. So for the first one red arrow
display at air show, joined by Alien Aircraft West Country air Show that's Gloucestershire
Live and then UNI Lad. I don't know what people's view on the reliability
of that, but Union Lad, you certainly do see the photo a bit,
and you certainly do see the video. I'm watching the video of it
right now, and very clearly you can see an object that really shouldn't be
there as Ben says it would be too dangerous, and it seems to be
joining again again the Red arrows again their art. They're interested. They do
this with our aircraft and for example, on the maiden flight of Concord in
nineteen seventy three, well, it was just it was just being tested.
I mean, it wasn't didn't have any passengers on board, it just had
the test pilots us just a similar object actually a white spherical object comes alongside
the aircraft. You don't have fast they in the window, doesn't it,
yes, And then it's you can see it actually circling around the aircraft.
This was captured on film. You can see it. It's on YouTube.
It was if someone was checking out our new aviation technology and it was not
clear was not some kind of foreign aircraft because they don't have anything like that.
There was also an incident, and I've seen it on some of these
programs where it was a Russian helicopter air display back in the early nineties and
they were kind of flying in formation over Moscow or wherever it was, and
you could clearly see an object flying backwards into the formation. Again, it's
something that shouldn't be done. Which was caught by many different cameras because obviously
it was an air display. So yeah, very very interesting that they're taking
a major interest in our technology. It's kind of an elephant in the room.
For example, you may see behind me a picture. This is my
chosen background for this particular call. You see like a series of lights in
a circle. Now, if I moved my head, slight you see as
a large light in the middle. Now, this was actually captured on a
Space Shuttle mission, I think sometimes in the nineteen eighties, and what you
see is these objects. The video of it is quite extraordinary because you see
the objects in the around the perimeter appear and start flashing their lights, and
then the big one in the middle then suddenly starts. It's almost that it's
it's light. They're flying in formation, and it's almost like they were giving
a signal to the crew of the Space Shuttle. That's what it looked like
to me. It's extraordinary piece of footage. You've not seen it published by
NASA. NASA, you know, NASA said, well, they didn't try
to suppress this. I mean this was actually part of their They just about
ice crystals from the craft. It dumped some ice. It's basically waste water.
You're in that kind of thing. Sometimes it forms crystals. You see
these things moving in an intelligent manner. It's not ice crystals. Now,
you actually monitored a four hour live stream of NASA discussing you of those,
didn't you bend very recently? So well, it's just a couple of Ironically,
it was just a couple of days before grushed. The Grush article came
out and the interview on News Nation it was well, put it this way.
At the end of it, I was four hours older and nothing to
show for it. I thought, what's the point? What's happles? NASSAS
put together what they call an independent study and led by a physicist called David
Spergel, and that he they basically they've actually reinvented the wheel. Really,
they just plodded round in circles, going over saying things that people said before,
these was your sort of things can't be identified, we don't know what
they are, no evidence that are alien. And this went on even though
they had people including they had a couple of astronauts there and Sean Kirkpatrick was
there. The astronauts was a very skeptical style they just said, well,
when I was in space, I didn't see anything weird. And there's none
of the other astronauts have said anything they saw anything weird, which is not
true because we have at least a dozen astronauts saying they saw strange things in
space Buzz Aldrin, Story, Musgrove, Cordon Cooper, Gnadis Traklov, many
many others. And so by the end of it, at the end,
it really didn't go anywhere. It didn't go anywhere. At the end,
the NASA illustrations just so, um, oh yeah, NASA is doing everything
we can. We're not covering anything up because someone from the audience are so
you know, you'd like cutting your feeds and things like this when you were
foes appear so that people can't see it, because you know, you do
live streams. They seemed they seemed to just disappear at certain times, and
he said, oh, yeah, they sometimes lose touch with with the transmitter
on the ground. That's where they cut off. And well, my response,
if I'd have been there would have been, well, they seem to
disappear as search. They seem to disappear a convenient timee because often just before
they go down something strange appears in the camera. Is that a coincidence?
Is it? Also? If if it's on say that a space shell or
the International Space Station, and you're going to pass over a regular spot each
time over certain stations that are tracking you from there, you would know,
I would presume, and that if you lose your feed at a regular point
going around the Earth because you're out of whatever, that would come up at
a regular point as it goes through its orbit. Wouldn't you know when it
would happen? Yeah, you know, an advance when you're gonna have to
cut off. Yeah. Yeah. There's also others. I mean, there's
the witnesses who've spoken how about this. There's also some you know, amateur
people before the other days, before they encrypted transmissions, you know, amateur
radio people would would actually pick these things up. There's some guys in Greece
used to pick up secret Russian space transmissions in the sixties, even before Jurigagarins.
But there was an interesting one. Some guys picked up something from the
Space Shuttle ones. And this is when John Blah was the Asture Space Shuttle
captain. Now and he what they have you said they do even back in
those days, they had an encrypted channel. It was called the medical channel
because they liked this was discussing the health of the astronauts. Of course it
could be used for discussing other classified materials. And the amateur people were like
the amateur radio hams, weren't monitoring the shuttle, listening to the astronauts talking
for fun. And then they heard blaha, and it is his voice say
Houston, there is a discovery. We have the alien spacecraft under observance.
Wow. And my guess is what happened? N was they felt They called
back and says, you're not on the medical channel, you're on the Sorry,
because I literally think he'd forgot that he was. He was not on
the medical channel, and he said something on the public channel. He shouldn't
have. I thought. They called them bogies. Now that was That was
Gordon Cooper bogies at ten o'clock high. He said, yeah, this is
weird because this goes back to the old X fifteen tester. Now this was
this was a suborbital spacecraft that was launched in the early sixties before before the
Mercury missions, which was America's first manned space mission. M Darcy Weir has
done a really good documentary about this. Um what the pilots of these these
crafts and these were these were like they literally they couldn't go to orbit.
They fly they had they were jet powered, and they flew up to a
very very high level and they would spend they would be able, they'd fly
on a ballistic trajectory and spend probably ten minutes in space before having had come
down again, very similar to Richard Branson's Virgin Galactic and the the pilot was
told and when you take this camera and photograph anything strange you see. And
this was like really weird because obviously during this mission he'd be very very busy
because those ten minutes in splace, he needed a lot of tests and get
a lot of data, take readings and things like that. But NASA were
telling him basically to do this, and then when they got back, he
could only tell certain people and he had to hand the camera over to the
CIA. This is back as that's as early as like nineteen and sixteen.
Things like that when the X fifteen project was underway. There's another kind of
like semi conspiracy theory. You could bolt onto the original Apollo mission. So
this thing when they get back from their alleged moon landings, and they had
the press briefing and they look completely in a trance hypnotic state, So somebody
could argue possibly that maybe there were moon landings. They did actually land there,
they did do their thing, they saw aliens, interacted with aliens.
But obviously we can't the astronauts blurt out to the public, so we'll kind
of wipe their memories, and that's why they hit the tie. So that's
a well. Obviously both conspiracies cannot be true, whether they are usually exclusive,
but my own view is that they weren't on the Moon. However,
there is evidence to suggest that. I mean, I do believe that Apolo
eleven went into space with Armstrong and an older on board, and indeed they
buzz alder and reported that they did actually see something strange and where they were
up in space, and I've got no reason to dis believe him. I
don't believe he went to the Moon, but I believe he was in Earth
orbit and he saw something strange and he actually said, so you can He
actually said so later that something was actually following the Apollo eleven spacecraft, which
they didn't know what it was. I thought there was some sort of post
analysis of that, and they thought it might have been something like the second
or third stage of the Saturn five, you know, because obviously these things
are they're separating from these things at certain parts of the missioners a go around
in orbit, but these things are still traveling with them because obviously they're still
projectiles in space as such, so they're still traveling at seventeen thousand miles an
hour, and the ship or the capsule is undocking from it, so it
just travels that little bit faster, but these things are trailing off, and
eventually there that orbit starts to decay of the the you know, that third
stage, and they kind of look out a window and see something like,
oh, what's that, And they're not quite sure because by that time it
is perhaps almost like a tiny glint in star or rotating object or whatever it
may be. So a lot of the ground stations presume or estimated it to
be, you know, debrief from from the actual launch itself, which is,
you know, it's not impossible, other there's a good thing. Well,
I think the reason I think that's not the case is it's older in
himself, and in fact, this is actually on the radio record of Apollo
eleven. You actually hear him contacting Houstons and Houston, could you tell us
the location of the third stage, the third stage of our rocket, or
some of the words to that effect, because they he and Armstrong and the
other guy. The guy would forget because he was well, Um, they
were all looking out the window of this thing saying and they wanted to check
what it was. They they don't want to say they'd send a UFO on
that because they didn't have the secret channel in those days. But they asked,
they asked Mission to crawl to verify that this was not what that very
thing, and missiontrol did say, no, no, it's actually six thousand
miles away from you. You shouldn't be see it right right. There's another
conspiracy theory that you could bolt onto this as well, and this would be
from the people that believe that we did land on the moon. Have you
heard of the one where people have claimed that they've heard astronauts say we did
land and we saw massive structures and there were alien structures there. So there's
that that aspect as well. There's something this isn't there. You've got you've
got the camp that believes that we absolutely did not go to the Moon and
it was all a complete hoax. We've got the camp that says we did
go to the Moon, but there's no alien structures. And then we've got
the camp that says we did go to the Moon, but there are alien
structures for the Yeah, it's obviously that all these things can't be true.
Yeah, to which which, sure, what do you think do you think
we went first? I don't believe that to the Polo Missians went to the
Moon. This doesn't mean there aren't trying things on the Moon. I believe
there's there's some there's some interesting stories about what was seen on the dark side
of the Moon. Now this is the dark it's called the dark side,
but it actually does get as much sunlight as the near side. It's actually
the fast side, the fast side facing away. That's if you were an
alien theoretically coming to Earth, this would be the perfect place to set up
some kind of forward operating position because it's a large area. It's almost next
door to the Earth in cosmic terms, and it's one of the few places
in the universe it's completely invisible from the Earth's surface for a region other than
sheer distance. So if theoretically, if we were being visited by creatures from
distant planets, they would probably set up some kind of and they wanted to
remain hidden from us, they would set up some kind of base on far
side. Actually, you've got a fourth You've got a fourth camp with this.
Oh god, you've got that. You've got the secret space theory.
You've got the theory that actually that what we're getting in the news and the
technology that we think is available is actually centuries, possibly millennia behind what really
exists. And there's like another, if you like, rung above us in
the technology technological realms where huge technology does exist. And we was about all
over the place in a secret space program UFO type spaceships, and maybe some
of the UFOs that we're looking at are actually part of that. Who knows.
I have no idea that that's the secret government has been far advanced and
what's available publicly, but well, I've done some of Maybe this is getting
back to those recovered craft that we've been discussing that you know, if we
have recovered technology, as this guy who has been stating it's not out the
runs of possibility, I mean I have heard that, you know. I
mean, what bob Za was talking about was that, you know, he
I think he quoted like a Wednesday evening or something that he said he told
his friends. He said, look, if you don't believe me, come
out to S four Area fifty one on a Wednesday evening with me and I'll
show you them test flying these crafts. And they were actually witnessed and they
videoed them, and I think they got arrested by the suggestion people there.
So it does seem August that, you know, once you got these craft
you know, captured or retrieved in some way, you are going to look
at them and try and work out how they're there, they're functioning. So
it's not out the realms of speculation to suggest that, yeah, we some
of the crafts up there are us testing them out, and they'd rather you
blame it on an alien craft rather than you sort of say, I think
that's US technologism, because they don't want you to know about their technology.
I mean that lot was said about diet for instance, So when people saw
the SR seventy one black Bird shooting across the sky, they'd rather you think
it was an alien craft rather than you actually identified it as a stealth aircraft
of the US Air Force at the time. But if you get an identification
wrong, yeah, certainly. I mean doctor Stephen Greer actually just released an
urban boovie where he talks about what he calls them. He calls UFOs a
EPDs alternative energy propulsion devices. That's something it was. If we need another
new name for them now. Of course I think some UFOs probably are secret
aircraft, not all, but there are. Now. There's quite a fashionable
theory actually going around that than the modern UFO culture and mythology is simply a
piece of literally engineered neo mythology created by the CIA to launder them or down
to Earth projects like space like spacecraft and spy planes and things like that.
It doesn't really make sense because you'd be you'd you'd essentially be drawing people's attention
towards something with the ultimate objective of deflecting it away. It wouldn't work at
all the same I mean, because if that theory is correct, it means
Bobblazar was put out there to draw people's attention away from Area fifty one hasn't
worked very well. That everyone's looking the air at fifty one out, including
people who don't believe in aliens and think that's just and they're now very interesting
in these covert aircraft being developed there. Do you remember the storm the Area
fifty one group, Yes, that's happened with that did well. It was
just thinking about it was they had this thing called alien Stock, which is
like a music festival and like a just basically a party in the middle of
the desert. Luckily no one actually tried to storm everything. It would have
been a disaster. It would have been an absolute disaster if they did.
But what happened was they have this thing called alien Stock. They said we'll
come back next year and make it a regular event. Then there was a
lockdown, but apparently it has resumed. It's the guy who does it,
he's only seventeen or something, or the fun went. Now apparently there are
plans to do a new to make this a regular thing, which should be
fun. I mean, as long as people don't actually try to storm Area
fifty one. Joke. It's such a huge place, so you know,
if anyone in the ten did, it's like which which part of the fence
do they actually storm? Because it's like acres this place, isn't. It's
like trying to get into Glastonbury, but twenty times more difficult. It's a
fourteen mile walk from the from the from the s Ractural Highway for a start,
across open desert, which is something that's very hot or very cold,
and there's no water. The Camo dudes, the security guards. I think
if if they saw a lots of people running towards the base, they would
they are authorized to open a fire, and they would, and there would
be there would be a massacre. It would be a pr disaster though,
wouldn't It would be a jennement square. But for alien, Oh god,
it will be will bes it would. It'll be very very sad and some
probably they probably clamped down on us even what I think what they would probably
this is what I think they'd probably do if they knew that there was going
to be a massive group of people invading every fifty one. I think what
they'd do they would draft in lots of National Guard and Army waiting. I
don't think they'd actually shoot them and kill them. I don't think they do
that. I think what they'll do is the mass arrests. They'd have coaches
waiting they're just arrestimal and the deed that will go to jail or have a
message. Fine, well that's actually what happened the day the police came out
in force, yeah, with for that day. They actually in the end
they only rested six people. They were preparing to arrest thousands if necessary.
Yeah. But but basically it turned into quite It turned into a very good
natured pageant really where everyone had a good laugh. It was very fun.
But some yeah, it was. It was now if you talk about Era
of fifty one on YouTube, for instance, you get the little box took
the Wikipedia box underneath. Oh yeah yeah. And I think if there had
been some kind of humanitarian disaster, it needn't be it need to be someone
getting shot. It could be just imagined like if five hundred people turned up
at Rachel, the little village, which is like seventeen miles from anywhere.
I mean, they all turned up there, went to the alien. The
problem is there's a petrol station there, but it probably doesn't have that much
petrol in stock, So how would you get those people back? And how
much you know, how how much food is actually in Rachel to feed these
people? And it could be something like that they maybe if you even that
little town seventeen miles from anywhere and you can't get back and you could end
up there, they'll run out of food and then they'll be starvation and things
like that, or they'll try walking back, which will be which will probably
end up the same way we did, end up dying on the way.
Things like that. It's just the little problems like that they all had to
think about. On a slightly different note, have you heard of the really
crazy shit behind the history of night vision? Have you heard of this?
No, I know a night vision, I know, but I didn't know
the fish, so I this is kind of relevant to the alien and the
UFO thing. So night vision, I thought it was a fairly recent thing.
My guests would have been kind of nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties. Actually,
no, night vision goes way back to at least the nineteen thirties,
possibly before then. Did you know that the Germans and the Americans both had
night vision on the warfield in the Second World War? They were huge though,
I mean the scopes are absolutely massive, bigger than the actual gun.
But you could actually bolt on a night vision scope to your gun so that
it goes way way way way back anyway, skipper, Skipper. A couple
of decades to the Vietnam War, the military decided to play about with what
was the best color to use for night vision, because we know it as
black and green, but they were experimenting with kind of blue and black,
white and black, yellow and black and red and black. This is where
it gets proper tinfoil hat crazy when they went with red and black. So
if you imagine night vision, but it's red tints instead of green tints.
And they gave it to their helicopter helicopter pilots who were sober and not on
drugs and not on LSD. And I thought this was complete bs, but
it was on. It was actually raised strange background noise, so I don't
know where it's coming from. Oh one second, can you hear me?
I know what it is. I can hear. I can hear you.
Just it's a page I hadn't okay, it was a live stream waiting to
start, so I should have shut that. That's right. So basically they
were they were experimenting with red and black night vision. They gave it to
these helicopter pilots who were sober and not on drugs. And the reason I
say that is they then started seeing quote, winged beings flying around the jungles.
This was raised on the Joe Rogan Show, and I thought that can't
be real. Little did a little bit of diving. Actually, yes,
it was real. You can find reports on this. They were they were
seeing these winged beings and the helicopter gunners were actually shooting into thin air.
So if you take the goggles off, there's nothing there. If you put
these red and black night vision goggles on, you see these winged being that
look. They described them as demons and dragons flying around. They were shooting
and they weren't there. So then they switched over to the green and black.
Now the winged beings, the demons disappeared. You couldn't see them anymore.
But guess what you could see, You could see the UFOs. So
then then we kind of like skipped forward to h you know a few recent
documentaries, even one with Danny Dye which was quite interesting. And they set
up these tripods with these green and black what I would call kind of normal
regular every day what we would refer to as night vision, and you'd see
in the sky these bright objects flying around happy as Larry, and you move
the camera away and you look with your naked eye and there's nothing there.
You can still see the stars. The stars are illuminated, and you can
see the stars with the night vision, but you can only see these UFO
objects through the night vision. So I don't forget night vision. Especially green
and black ones pick up infrared. So maybe they're picking up frequencies of light
that we can't see with the naked eye. Well, that's a craft.
Friend, Nick Hayes, would he deals with phenomena that do not appear in
visible lights. They only only appear in in the electronna spectrum away from visible
light. But that I didn't. That's clearly dealing with something that only,
like I said, it's can't be seen except in certain wavelengths in other worlds.
Because if you've got red, red is a very low wavelength, a
long wavelength, asupposed to blue, which is a high wavelength. That to
me is really it's indicates they have some kind of ability to disguise themselves and
can disent on a certain wavelengths. And it's also fascinated because traditionally people have
thought about UFOs and aliens as kind of like a distance thing they live in,
you know, a galaxy, you know, billions and billions of light
years away. But if if we then kind of like, um, not
exactly merge, but we kind of view these things as perhaps multidimensional or in
the same realms as ghosts and you know, spirits and that kind of thing.
If we take the principle that the length of distance for one little spaceship
to come across is going to be too vast to do it in terms of
you know, even with high technology, but instead doing it multidimensially, are
you kind of disappearing from one space and appearing another space? How they do
it? I don't know, in the same way that the spirit or ghost
might. They're willing to some really strange realms here, Because are we dealing
with with with beings or UFOs from the physicality of far flung places, or
are we dealing with multidimensional beings. Now we're intoing a whole new world of
the possibility of angels and demons and extra dimensional Yeah. I actually saw the
documentary were talking about with Danny Dyer. It was it was just hems.
He was winkey ch Actually who does the fraish things with cameras and stuff.
But yeah, I mean the thing is if if in order to in order
to traverse the great distances in space you need to use wormholes. Wormholes do
exist in the theory, and there's nothing They're called the Einstein Rosen bridge because
Einstein actually theorized with this guy called Rosen that they could be created which would
actually bypass space Steine and the ability you'd be able to go through this wormhole
and get somewhere a lot quicker than you would have otherwise. Alternatively, if
we live in them in a multiverse where there's different universes occupy in the same
space on high dimensions, the wormhole also could access those as well, and
if you should allow being from other universes to accessrs. So yeah, I
mean, this is strange crossover between other paranormal phenomena that fascinating me. John
Keel wrote a lot about this, and the difference I suppose would be that
unfos also have like a physical presence. They have they appear to be solid
objects, they leave marks on the ground for example. They also the pilots
the occupants seem to be biological entities which leave footprints for example, and when
they sometimes they die and they leave behind a corpse, which cause ghosts and
angels don't um So I find that although you say ghosts and angels don't they
but sometimes with politicist activities you do get the physical manifestation of beings or objects
being moved in this reality, this three D reeligence by the theory or being
themselves, and that's it, and you get and you get some people because
there's different types of ghosts, isn't there there's orbits of light. You've got
shadows, you've got translucent we can see the background, but you've also got
solid ones. You've also got solid ones. And in terms of the physicality
of things, there are some reports of people, for instance, in life
threatening situations where old the angel kind of lifted the car up. Now I
was able to get out with the angel did this and I was able to
get out, and then they'd ask the police or the paramedics, or where
was that that that tall blonde guy? Where was it? What tall blond
guy? What you're talking about? So there there can be weirdly some physical
interactions from what you might call ghosts and spirits in the same way that aliens
kind of have a physical and presence. Well, the Bible actually mentions eight
angels and what I can't remember where as we're in the Bible, but it
mentions aliens eating, so not aliens angels angela angels are eating, which of
course indicates they have they can manifest in a physical formula yea. And of
course supports about like we discussed Helen Duncan before about how the school experiment.
You know, she apparently came through and gave everyone a newspaper from the nineteen
forties and it was an authentic one too, printed on the right kind of
paper with the right kind of black kind of thing. Now as we draw
it for a close, just the vinyl thoughts on this, the retrieve sources,
if they are retree sources, are such. Leslie Keene was the one
that was sort of on this story as well. She was asked if it
was a soft disclosure, is that what they're head into? I mean,
would you agree it's kind of a soft disclosure that these reports now coming through
first. That's what I'm hoping for. I'm hoping it is literally, um
some kind of herald, some kind of some kind of experiment to see what's
going to see how people react before they go to the next step. Yeah,
we don't know that's the case, but that's what I hope for.
I mean, the the evidence does indicate that's the case. Actually, And
I know I'm I'm biased, and this could be wish you're thinking. But
after I've looked at the other side of the story, I've looked at what
other people said, and it doesn't fit. There's no other reason why this
guy would do that, see what I mean. Yeah, I mean the
skeptics have this strange theme outsand why are they interested in us? You know,
all these aliens, you know, why would they travel the vast distances
the universe. I mean, they're making assumptions that they're traveling vast distances of
the universe to come and visit us, when in fact, you know,
they might actually be here already. And I mean, certainly many of the
books I've read suggests that the saucer craft at least a flying saucages typical flying
sorces. They are actually craft just to maneuver around in our atmosphere. Anyway,
they have not traversed the universe, and they could be, like you
say, on basis on the backside of the Moon, so they haven't got
far to come, really. But these people, in their closed minded ways,
seem to think that these little flyings autars have traversed the universe through time
and space or whatever. When you know there's bases here allegedly, there's many
reports of flying sources going in and mountains into volcanoes, under the sea.
They're not they're not often seen shooting up straight up into space. They see,
yeah, and they are seen in space sometimes covered it out of the
atmosphere, but they're not seeing like large ones coming in through the Solar System
have not been spotted by astronomers. And also, I mean they're coming through
wormholes. We don't know where the ends of these wormholes are. They could
be very close, they could be very close to it. They could even
be on the Earth. I mean they could Yeah, don't even need to
be in space at all. And yeah, I mean so, And as
you said, there's there's signs that they go. They go to places like
under the sea all the time. They fly into places. The final scene
of that documentary with Danny Dyer and by the way, it's all that's an
awful piece of casting. I really must admit that I thought he's at the
East Set Ranch. He's at the East Setting Ranch, and he actually does
witness some of the phenomena that James Gilliland's team have observed. And this is
this is the thing. I mean that the point about the Danny Dye episode
is not really him and it's what he believes in is kind of like irrelevant
to us. Really it's the footage. It's when you see the footage and
it was a mountain that these these not beings, I don't know what they
are, UFOs were flying in and out of that you couldn't see with the
naked eye. That's usually exactly. This is a lot like what This is
what several people I checked, Trevor James Constable, who was the pioneer of
this kind of uthology, talked about and other people have as well. Nick
Hayes, I think as carrying on the work of Constable, I d Leon
Southgate. So yeah, I think that's that. Maybe that's I think,
no doubt it could be. We'll find out more about that. I could
be the government. I'm sure they know about this sort of thing already.
M But stay tuned to this channel and also to Ben's channel. Ben.
If people want to know more about you, how can they find out about
you? Well, you's go to Panelo Hospital, Ports against the New World
Order HPA and WO. Put it into Google. You'll find everything. Don't
forget to read my book Ross while Rising, a novel of disclosure available all
good books shops now price ten pounds, which is about the subjects we talk
about on this program, but it's a fictional scenario in which people got the
truth and said us a lies. Cool. And also your YouTube channel,
Ben the JR Reporter, the Porter, Yeah Porter. I always want to
say reporter because it's the R in the JR. Porter. Yeah, yeah
cool. Okay, so you're going to be doing a lot more live streams
as this story unfold, so I'm going to try and keep an eye on
that well hopefully if if Philip Kinsella and his brother Ronnie Kinsella can make it.
Unfortunately had to cancel the season, so I hopefully we might be getting
one part to this program. If not, we'll just be us, but
we'll hopefully get my mind in part to discussing the same topics from their angle.
But for the moment, then thanks very much for joining us. On
the Paranormal Peep Show. Welcome, thanks for having thanks for handing me Andy
and Neil. Cheers. Stay tuned for Part two. Day Made nine UK
Radio Network. Join Andy Leile every month on the Paranal peep Show part of
the Paranal UK Radio Network for fun, frolics and lots of information about weird
stuff, UFOs, ghosts and things that go bump in the night and everything
associated with them. Fascinating guests, fascinating talk, fascinating information. Hi,
Welcome back to the Paranormal Peep Show Part two on the Paranormal UK Radio Network,
and this time we've joined with Philip Kinseller, who joins us from Bedfordshire.
Philip, Hello, good evening, How are you good evening, and
earlin, I'm very well and thank you once again for inviting me on your
wonderful show. It's wonderful, it's brilliant, Thank you, thank you.
And of course you're the host of Twin Souls, so you're kept busy with
your brother Ronnie presenting an host in that and discussing all sorts of manner of
things. And one of the things that you discussed quite a lot either on
your show or outside the field of that lie through your books or presentations is
the subject of UFOs as well, which you have a great interest in.
So obviously this story is broken with this David Grush, who is this alleged
whistleblower, But I mean Ben says he's not a whistle blow because he's doing
it through the proper channels of trying to get this story out now. But
David Grush is this former Leaves and former intelligence of intelligence workings. Yeah,
it was working for the US government with the UAP kind of task force as
it were, which is a unident unidentified aerial phenomenal program and maybe a task
with bringing to the public through Congress their their research and findings that he came
to the conclusion with talking to various people that they were not given all the
information that they should be and he thought it was a bit of a travesty.
So this is why he's come forward and basically through the protections of Congress
and various acts that are being passed now breaking this story through where he says
that the US and other countries do have crashed UFO put it bluntly, And
how did you find out about the story and what's your thoughts on it.
Well, I did hear whispering starting on the internet, but then of course
you sent me a link where I was really able to have a look at
this, and that's where I found it. So I found it through UNIL
because I heard these rumors going through the internet. But I was rather curious
as to why David Grush now would come forward with these allegations. I mean,
this is you know, we're talking about the Rosso error nineteen forty seven,
and of course we know of the subsequent programs that were initiated, Project
Signed, Project Grudge, Project Bluebook, and you know which we're supposed to
be investigating the reality of UFO or now UAP phenomena. And we get to
this stage now where we've got this very high intelligence officer and his credentials.
Do check out who is now stating that he wants the world to know that
we are in possession of at least twelve crafts. And what was interesting was
the nature of the information that came forward from him stating that some of them
are triangular, some of the classic disc shape, and one even very much
like one of our very own helicopters, and also stating about the pilots.
Now, anyone remotely interested within the UFO phenomena would do absolutely anything to be
in the presence of not only that hardware, but also to see and look
upon the pilots themselves. But you know, we're now seeing a downplay of
this every single time that we have someone and in this instance, I have
to state that David Grush is one of the most highest level within the military
establishment core units that has come forward to spill the beans, so to speak.
And we're now seeing a downplaying of this whole drama, where of course
the Pentagon and those officials that governed within you know what we would call us
parliament, although it's are now at pains to cover this up. So and
we also have to understand that this information has come from second hand sources.
So David Grush has not himself seen the actual hardware or the pilots. He
has been informed by those other members of personnel within his units that have confided
in him. And are we to doubt him, you know, no,
I don't think so. I mean, why would this gentleman come forward now
as spoil the beans. But of course you'll get a lot of people that's
going to start speculating thinking that this is a false flag. Some people are
talking about the build up to some kind of fabricated holographic alien invasion, and
it's got messy, which it normally does within the field of UFO research.
Whatever happens with any case, you'll find that there is a yes and there
is a no, and you know, there is never any definitive answers that
we can gain, and this is puzzling. So I think personally a lot
of what David is talking about is factual. I think he comes across as
very frustrated. He's certainly now a marked man in terms of like him stepping
forward and coming out of line of the job that he you know, specifically
worked for, the work, the work that he did, because he's gone
against his official bosses. But we're seeing again the Pentagon and of course denying
or them now blaming someone else that you know, it's another corporation that has
this information that we can't get our hands on, and it's always someone else.
It's always like a pay per trell where you can never actually find where
this ends. Is this is the whole thing. So I think it's very
interesting. I think going back, so we have to realize something truly extraordinary
did start to begin before Grush announced these spectacular claims just recently. I mean,
I know that he's been in the movement for some time. But when
we had those balloons coming over America and then they were subsequently shot down,
there was another object that was about the size of a vehicle that supposedly came
down in some kind of water, and we didn't hear any more about that.
But what's interesting is the fact that the news media here in England,
I know as well in America and other countries, but here in England for
the first time they were stating categorically that they had shot down AUFO. Now,
a balloon is a balloon, so you know, it's rather like Roswell,
but in reverse where it was a disc and and they blamed it on
the mogil Weather balloon so secret in fact, going back to nineteen forty seven,
that military didn't even know anything about the where about where this secret experimental
object was, I might add I think that was the beginning of some kind
of psychological program or disinformation campaign campaign, most notably conspiracy theorists. That was
I know that was created through JFK, through his unfortunate demise. But it
was strange that the news channels were using UFO and then all of a sudden,
all the uphologists ears pricked up, all the researchers, thinking, how
on a minute, what are they talking about? And I thought that was
very strange even back then, that they'd actually admitted. And then you know,
you kind of like have to step back and stay well, the news
channels have never admitted on national primetime news that a UFO or two UFOs have
been shot down. It's always been what it has been, has been shot
down an aircraft or a balloon or something else. So I'm not so sure.
I'm quite suspicious about this sudden turn of the sense in terms of all
of this now starting to come out. What what is this? Yeah?
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it. It's like the UFOs over Canada or
where these objects were that that's like the starter meal and now we're we've been
off with the main cause and I'm just wondering what the dessert will be.
Well, as long as we're not the main course, yeah, or the
dessert. Well, it is fascinating, I think because we have to also
ask the question as to why again, that question why David has come forward.
Obviously he himself has been witnessed to this information. Obviously he's seen photographic
evidence, he's seen the documentation, and of course because his hands are tied,
along with many others, it does seem to me that there are others
within his group, or within those group establishments, who do feel that it's
wrong that the public are not told the truth. And he also said,
didn't he that the Vatican know about this as well, which wouldn't surprise me
in the least. But I think the public now already, I don't think
they would give a hoot if the world suddenly announced that yes, we are
in possession of UFO hardware, and that we have obviously the bodies the pilots
in some form of cryogenic freeze. I doubt very much of their alive.
But this opens up the door to other questions that even David, I think
himself, may not be able to answer. He seemed at pains to discuss
matters. One of the interesting things he pointed out was the fact that subcontracted
scientific units had been brought in to try and replicate the technology and they couldn't,
which cause into question and most notably the triangular UFO stings that we have
the TR three's, which most people assume our back engineered alien technology. Well,
if his statement is true, then it means to say that we haven't
yet reversed this technology and that what people have been seeing is actually the real
thing. But I don't know, because you have some researchers stating that there's
some kind of secret space program, you know, that that we have reversed
the technology from alien craft or non human craft as they non terrestrial crafts as
they like to call it. So you know, we're going to find ourselves
in some deep muddy waters until we have some transparency with regards to the facts
behind this. And even if those facts were brought forward, even if David
was able to bring these facts forward, I doubt that the public would believe
him anyway, you know, because people want to sit with their own eyes,
they want to handle it, and that's not going to happen. So
but I think it's interesting that he has such a very high ranking position and
that something spooked him or he's you know, obviously telling the truth, unless,
of course, there is another program, a psychological program in place to
make us all believe that we're seeing it their way and once again we've all
been had we don't know m I almost get the impression the fact that these
people that are confided in him because he worked for the up task for Task
Force and it was one of his jobs to try and collate all this material.
And basically it's like all these people within this crashed retrieval area, we're
basically you're saying, just they just want the word to get out or something.
Because remember, these are not the same people, of course that we're
involved with Roswell. These are younger people that our generation who comes through with
different sets and morals and we're not at war with this that and the other
where maybe or with other people now or something. But they're coming through with
a different set of you know, they're not all going to hush it up
now. Maybe maybe there was an argument back then with the Russians about hushing
this sort of stuff up because it was new to them, But now they've
got at least seventy five years of this kind of stuff to collate through and
go through. And the people that are coming onto these teams now that have
got to investigate them have got different ideas about you know, how do they
want to leave this world? Do they want to leave it a secret,
or are they're going to kick this problem further down the road like a tin
can for another generation to pick up, or they're going to actually break new
grounds. They no, we're going to stop this and we want this to
now become partly public in some way. And it's like these people that they
they they've confided him. They've all gone up to him and broken their bits
of information to him one by one. And even he said, yes,
I have seen documents. Because people said, oh, we hasn't seen anything,
but he actually says in an interview, yes, I've been presented documents
and other things. Yeah, that's right. And I presumed he meant video
or photographs or something of that nature. So he has seen some sort of
qualifying evidence, although, like you say, he hasn't got the keys to
the cabinet to bring these things forth. But now there's other journalists out there
that are now being approached by people who are saying pretty much the same thing.
But then again, thirty plus years ago, we had Bob Lazar who
was pretty much selling us the same kind of story that he was saying that
we had reversed, engineered the technology. David is telling us that we haven't
been able to do that. So you know, where do we draw that
line. I wouldn't doubt you know that the US military have tried in every
way possible to replicate these crafts or the engineering of them. That is interesting.
But the other interesting fact that we have to look at, Neil is
the fact that if this is true, then we have been lied to and
also not just lied to. My big question is where are they coming from?
Remember he said there were different factions, different species of alien So we
then have to ask the question, if they're not getting us through through to
us through space as in the conventional space that we see in terms of space
travel, how are they doing it? I mean we bring into the framed
dimensional connections, which I think are very important, you know, And but
also that would state that NASA have also lied to us because they've engineered this
new interest or this new program to study the UAP phenomena. But come on,
I mean, if if these crafts have been entering our stratosphere, they
would know about it because of all the satellite technology out there. And I
think that if this is the case, and it shows that there's been a
huge, massive operation to you know, hoodwink the public, the general public
that's us into the belief that there's nothing going on out there, and the
other thing just a very simple thing here. They've got such technology to allegedly
take pictures on Mars, but not the moon, you know, And we've
got to you know, people have to ask the right questions. I know
we're stepping it slightly away from the UAP question with David Rush, but these
questions, this will then start a barrage start of other things that will be
opened. Cans of worms will start to be open. So if you've told
us that we now have alien technology, we have the hardware, and we
have the pilots, and we want to know how they're getting here. And
if we do find out how they're getting here, we're then going to start
question other organizations, powerful organizations. Well you must have known about this,
you know, And and this is going to start something really big rolling.
So I mean, I've got to look at it both ways. And I'm
not a I'm you know, I don't think any one of us are an
expert. You know, whatever line of inquiry you have within the UAP or
UFO study area of study. I don't think any of us are, but
we have an awareness and understanding of the phenomena and it is fascinating, I
think because this has given us all hope, hope that someone has, you
know, let things out and feels that the public need to know the truth.
But will we get that truth once again? We may come round to
a part like on the X Files, where Molder and Scully have the evidence,
they've got it, and then the last part it's all gone. It's
disappeared that what they thought they had has been changed to something that most people
will then accept us truth. So you know, we're seeing this wheel going
around again. So I do feel sorry for David Grush. I mean,
I would like and hope to believe that his intentions are admirable. But there
is a part where other people will now start coming in and will bring him
down. I've already had a look today and there's a lot of stuff coming
out saying that they're not taking his account seriously and it's a load of old
rubbish, you know, this type of thing. But you know, why
would he come out with this? And of course and he's there and we're
not just talking about a major or general here or someone in that kind of
like link with a new asability. We're talking about someone who is even above
the Pentagon, who has these or able to have a clear at these top
secret clearance levels that we the public would never be could ever dream of.
So I think it's very interesting and I think it's fascinating, and you know,
most of us are just sitting back and watching the show as it were,
and seeing what happens, what comes out. We's all. That's all
we can do. I Drew Parallels actually with him and Bubb Lazar actually because
because David said in his interview that unfortunately, some people researching on these projects
trying to establish, you know, how they're working these devices. UFO's craft
called them what you will have unfortunately died in their services because of you know,
they've somehow being killed accidentally during the course of their investigations. And that
reminded me back to when Bobb Lazar said he was recruited by a Espore or
whatever they were called, so they dreamland Area fifty one area because he was
recruited to replace a guy that are being killed investigating a UFO back then.
Yeah, So that kind of drew a parallel to me, and I thought,
oh, that's interesting. So Bobb lazare it does sound like Bob Lasar's
story as it is credible. That Yeah, I just think that what Grush
has said compared to Lazar, there are differences of opinion. Obviously that he
that Lazar states that he worked on back engineering this technology and Grush is saying
that we haven't been able to replicate that. It could be that he was
only privy to certain parts of information and that not all of it. Because
I respect that completely most definitely. Yes, absolutely, Yeah, I think
I think Zar was basically, from my understanding, they were trying to understand
how it all worked and they were breaking it down to its bear components.
Yes, I don't think he. I don't think he said they'd built anything
from anything, although they were managing to test fly some of the craft they
had recovered, but they hadn't made their own craft independently as a resol of
it. I don't think they'd got that far at that point. Reminds me
of the series called Taken and I've got that Steven Spielberg, and there was
this one part with the US military had one of these alien crafts. They
brought in these psychic twins ladies to try and use their minds to it,
and then the next thing you saw them dead. So I think that this
happens to a lot of the people. They're getting involved with this type of
phenomena, you know, so it's like, oh, good Lord, here
we go again. Yeah, you're going to get your fingers burnt from some
something. If it's not the earth people burning your fingers, it's the aliens
in some way. Which actually brings me to the point where he said that
these creatures or aliens or pilots that someone asked, has anyone ever come to
harm and he said, yes, yes, some of them have killed human
beings, correct, And I thought, now that's very interesting, spooky,
scary. You know. He didn't say who they were, but I mean
we've heard stories about reptilians killing people, that kind of thing, the human
mutilations. I mean, this is stuff that we've all known and your apologists
for years, through all the various books, but it's now just coming simmering
through to the public consciousness, you know. And I don't know, I
don't know what they're going to make of it, but we've kind of known
a lot of this stuff over the years. Yes, we have. And
it's not just the love and like nature of contact. It's also the other
side that has to be addressed, that must be addressed. You know,
I've had some people that believe in this is this is going to create a
huge divide because we find ourselves as research as being attacked by those who see
these beings. There's nothing more than benevolent in nature. I'm not disagreeing with
that, but what I will say to you is that the aspects that we've
been dealing with, most notably myself, has been a darker area and there
are reasons behind that, even if most people don't want to acknowledge that as
fact. We have to be open to all forms of speculation when we're investigating
some of You can't just be hoodwinked in one idea and one idea only in
That's it a tunnel visioned I can't see anything else. No, you can't
do that. That was interesting and quite spooky as well. So what's your
expectations for the future. We've the down balloons over Canada and objects being shot
out in the sky. Now this gentleman's now come forward with his accounts.
Do you think, like you say, that is open up a can of
ones, And in the next few months we're going to get other people bravely
stepping forward with their stories. Hard to say, Neil, as I said,
I we've been here before, down this road so many times, even
with the release of the information from the Pentagon, from the Office of Special
Investigations, you know, with the regards to the UAP phenomena, and that's
gone all quiet, you know, So I don't know, well they closed
this all up. I don't know. The US intelligence seems quite strong and
powerful. I mean, if it's either a make a break situation, we
don't know. I just hope that more people step forward for David and to
categolically state for the record that these things are real and that we know that
for a fact. But you know, it's it's time for us to know
the truth. This will open up so much more for us, not only
terms of who we are and what we represent and not the Sun School version
that we've been programmed to believe in. It's time now for us to wake
up. It's time for us all to share this information and work together as
opposed to separate. You know, no one has exclusive rights to the phenomena,
you would think, but there are some people who feel that they have
they needed or are we being protected from a terrible secret. That's another thing
that we need to take into a consideration. Are they doing it for our
own safety and to keep us away from that horror? Sounds dramatic, but
we have to consider that. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, oddly enough,
former was obviously looking at the Internet tonight and seeing the Daily Stars version
of this story, and they had got one of these little photographs of a
crashed saucer, you know, supplied by a photo agency or something, but
it's still said at the bottom. As I was going through the Daily Stars
thing break in news, it said at the bottom of the web page,
al Pacinos seventy eight has become a father in And it's like, oh my
god, you know, the breaking news of the day. So even we're
still attracted to the Hollywood gossip above these recovered surcers stories, well, so
the Daily Star thing that we're interested to find this out. I mean,
I couldn't give two who's about al Pacino begoing a father But it's like,
oh my god, can't they just drop that kind of ankle yeah, so,
I mean that's you know, that is the thing breaking news is this
revelation. They're not interested. They want their toy town plastic world programmed.
You know, units that are there, us humans they see is just to
you know, go about our business and not ask any questions. Oh my
god. It's such a goddamn nightmare, isn't it. It's just crazy.
But we I think we're in for exciting times. Most definitely good stuff.
Well, thank you for joining us on the Paranormal peep Show and thank you.
We'en busy working on some books, haven't you So there any due at
the moment. Well, I've got Terrestrial Trespassers coming out in February twenty twenty
four. I'm working on two other books at the moment. They're slow going,
but we're getting there on us. Yeah, excellent, excellent what We
look forward to that and we look forward to hearing more episodes of Twin Souls
we yourself and Ronnie every month on the Paranormal UK Radio Network. It's always
a great listen, so for anyone that also listens to us, listen to
Philip and Ronnie on Twin Souls Radio, which is always interesting to listen to
the guests you have and always fascinating stuff. But thank you once again Philip
for join us on this exciting revelation has come true and we'll all stay glued
to our screens. I guess you bet well, you know, you know,
we'll all be first in line. It'll be like a scene from Close
Encounters at the end. I just wish that all the upologists were there to
see it, to be able to touch it and explore it and examine it.
That would be anyone's dream. But that is just at the moment of
dream. Yeah, as I said in part one, I wonder what the
late Stanton Freedman. Yeah, oh yes, bless his heart. Well,
I'm sure he's making something of it now over on the other side, so
we'll have to wait to ask him that question. Yeah, absolutely, all
right, Well, thank you once again Philip, and join us next month
on the Paranornal Peep Show on the Paranornal UK Radio Network. Well, we'll
have our guest talking about the Apollo moon Lands. Were they real or were
they? Good night? You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network. Voted
number one for paranormal podcasts in the UK.