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get side side what I need to say to sell stid it not saying it
once you take your listen, listen, make you this story fils. Here's
your time to get some time again. Time well sary d D D d
D. Sometimes you know, I don't really want to toek out. Sometimes
I think give it comment fell down to Scott and took a single one of
us out the better off. It's a hot day in the back words.
Call my boots walking up the hill with me to live the life. Falling
in on the fund, I so bad the graveyard. Tell you that I
love you and maybe that's the truth. I've got more important things to worry
about. You can't let it go, and you can't figure out how they
bought all the things, But they can't filter out the man is from the
nonsense now sitting here with fifty bottles against show me all the blue trinks,
my cocker dark. There's not to make the li's not the reason why never
mind the passers by. Everything then do is destructive. Everything you are is
kind of productive. All your systems is the function transugation through destruction. The
first by translating it up. I don't hand drinking at the time. I
can't plan a home and everything gods, said Tiger pan Stick, following in
a lot of the welcome back all he's coming until a brain. I used
to be happy. I used to be break my person time passt can't find
my back. That is well, baby back KILLIFI of defenses every night,
I know I do what I need. Christas time, the preast planks for
all the first spend me that rending I bring wasster my head to my back,
doctors, Si Tiger Pastick. The views expressed on this program by its
guests do not necessarily reflect the views or reliefs of the host Podial Network.
This program's sole intent is to help educate the foster critical debate, and help
raise and discuss political and social issues which already exist in the public domain.
Thank you join the program. Welcomelys and John, and welcome to this week's
edition of The Sunday Wire. I'm your host, Patrick Henningson. We're a
streaming out live on the Alternate Current Radio Network and also at twenty first century
y dot com. Thank you so much for joining us for episode four hundred
and sixty one of this weekly omnibus news and analysis program again brought to you
here on ACR. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a really fantastic show lined
up for you today. I've got a very special guest we're gonna have a
really good conversation with. We're gonna be talking with author Jay Dyer Jason Ben
on this program many times before over the years, and we're gonna have a
long conversation with them in depth, deep dive into not just Ukraine, but
how the CIA, how the clandestine intelligence services and history in the West have
used religion in order to infiltrate and to steer events geopolitical events during wartime and
during the Cold War, etc. And how this relates specifically to what's going
on in the Ukraine. Now. You probably read and heard about the split
in the Orthodox Church and the fact that Zelenski's declared war on the Ukrainian Orthodox
Church and seizing churches and keeping people from worshiping. It's an unbelievable story and
it's pretty much been ignored largely anyway by the Western mainstream media. So we're
gonna do a little deep dive into that with Jane. It'll be quite a
good history lesson as well. There's a lot of things to unearth there,
a lot of interesting things. So that's going to happen in a few minutes.
We'll go to Break and we'll put that together for you. But in
the meantime, let's just have a quick look at what happened this week.
I mean, really unbelievable. This Pentagon leak story just kind of encapsulates so
much. We talked about it last week when it was breaking. It gave
a little short program we did for East or Sunday last week. This is
interesting how this shaped up towards the end of the week. And this is
the way I look at it. And I said my position on this last
week pretty much the same thing now, And I'm more or less said the
same thing during the programs on TNT during the week. And look what I
find interesting here is how the New York Times and Belling Cat we're hunting down
this leaker. They're hunting down the leaker. They supposedly Belling Cat. You
know, we know all about Belling Cat. It's supposed to be an independent
investigation group. It's an extension of the Western Intelligence Apparatus. Okay, I
think now this is perfectly clear. All the proof we needed for that has
now been revealed this week with these Pentagon leaks and belling Cat. They used
to use them to fit up cases against the Russians, whether it's MH seventeen
or literally fabricating CGI images and doctoring what they call open source evidence things on
the Internet. And they did that with the Duma chemical attack, and that
was the last time that belling Cat was really drafted in to douce, you
know, a heavy a fairly heavy job of trying to make a case to
demonize or to implicate Syria or Russia. That's their sole focus is to is
for the governments in the West to use belling Cat to provide quote evidence or
to quote make a case against Russia and Syria. Mainly, that's their main
that's that's their sort of their number one function. And then the mainstream media
will then use belling Cat as their source for the evidence for the said narrative.
So that's pretty much what they've done. Now they went they laid low
after script Al because I think they kind of exposed themselves putting out some pretty
dodgy photographs and things like that. The way they try to implicate the so
called Novochuk poisoners. Obviously there's more to that story than probably will ever know,
and it probably has something you can do with a behind the scenes battle,
clandestine battle between British intelligence, Western intelligence and Russia as well. But
it played out in the script attle of fair in public of course, and
we got a narrative, and we'll never know what happened to Sergey scrip alan
Uli a script al. They just disappeared off the face of the earth,
no explanation needed, and then no evidence that there was a deadly chemical weapon
called Nova chalk on British soil, more likely fentanyl poisoning, as per the
initial reports that came out on the hospital the medical website at the time.
Those of you who watched that story are familiar with the actual chain of events.
But and suddenly Bellingcat was drafted back into service again with these Pentagon leaks,
and as if by magic, it was Bellingcat who discovered the documents came
from a gamer discord server, And it just so happens that Bellingcat recruits gamers.
So they recruit gamers as their remote working troll force and what they call
their visual investigators. Okay, so their little team that goes and scours the
internet for evidence. Once they get their clues sent to them by HQ,
they send the kids off, the gamers off to find the evidence. So
there's all sorts of things going on. They're doc seeing, hacking, all
sorts of things. Okay, we can't see all that from our point of
view, but we just told trust the process. So here they are basically
playing tour guide for the New York Times in the mainstream media, providing the
actual providing the actual basis of the entire narrative of this bellingcap. So isn't
that amazing how that worked out? And so now the story's all about the
twenty one year old airman first class who supposedly dropped these jpeg images on the
discord server of these daily briefings, intelligence briefings that were highly embarrassing to the
US government. Now, what's the real story behind this? We'll probably never
know, although I guarantee you it'll be different when the trial happens. There'll
be lots of new information that wasn't in the initial game set match, you
know, judge, jury and executioner. Mainstream MEDA reporting on this including witness
statements, statement of intent, motive. It's like case closed anyway. This
poor guy's probably not going to get a fair trial anyway because it's all been
done and dusted in the media. But that was by design, that's the
way they wanted to do it. And the whole point of this is now
Americans and everyone else are obsessing over this. This twenty one year old as
the right wing, you know, gun enthusiast Christian Orthodox caricature. He's been
profiled and it's all about his clearance and the technical jargon of could could that
person at that rank have the right clearance? Why these secret documents being given
to these young people whatever, That's that's the rabbit hole that they wanted the
public to go down. Why so nobody's actually looking at the actual information,
and that's the whole point, The actual information that is said to be valid,
aside from one manipulation that turned up on Twitter that looks like it was
probably done by the group that we just mentioned. But anyway, no one's
talking about the documents and the implication of what's in them and what the motive
of the league. If it was a setup, which it looks like it
was, a setup. It makes sense because they would profile if this,
They would know this guy's proclivities. This this young twenty one year old who's
an IT, you know, information specialist handle or whatever his role was.
They would have known his m O and so he would have been marked as
someone who could be used. Because again, once the event happens, once
the perpetrators identified, then the entire media coverage and the conversation shifts to the
person to the person, to what they're like, what their political affiliations might
be. That becomes the story, not the actual leak. And that's the
intention of it. So the League did its job. It got out there.
It allowed the government to pivot on the so called Spring Offensive, which
we find out the Ukrainian armies not ready for and they're under equipped, etc.
So that's that was the purpose. What it looks like pretty sure,
that's the purpose of this stuff being fed to this young boy who put it
on the Discord server and then it was magically discovered after sitting there for over
two months or something like that, or a month or so. There's some
documents that they said we're sitting up there since late January. Some of them
were more recent okay, But the point is it allowed a conversation to happen
in the media about how badly the war's going and how the Ukraine don't look
like they have a chance of winning any military victory. It allowed that conversation
to happen without a US politician or military figure coming out to say that publicly
and then getting derided, attacked, slammed, and then the media reaction would
have been completely uncontrollable. Whereas with these controlled leaks, it's all been very
as you can see, it's all been very well stage managed, including bringing
in the intelligence asset Bellingcat to help to do the sheep hurting with the press
and to create the narrative that oh, this just kind of magically appeared on
a gamer server. So I mean, it's very well constructed, the whole
operation. But the point is, again, the point is to put uncomfortable
information out into the public with any politician having to own it, but allowing
for an off ramp for policy to pivot or a policy change, and that
policy change looks like it's going to happen, and so they needed a soft
landing, a little bit of a mattress to jump on here and that's what
the league provides. So and normally if you look at politicized leaks and major
leagues, these things don't just happen. These things are they're made to be
highlighted, they're made to be focused on. The media could have easily ignored
it. If it was something that they didn't want to put any focus on.
They could have just said insignificant old daily briefings, Yeah we knew all
that, and just call around and tell O the press to gaslight it.
And it turns out that's what they did. Afterwards, they got the mainstream
press in America to agree not to report or show the documents even after they're
widely circulated online. So total media control, press control with the government.
That's disturbing. Nobody's talking about that. That's unprecedented. So something in the
public interest, very much in the public interest, not just the US,
but the European public and also the Ukrainian public, something in their public interest
gets completely blackholed. So this is interesting. So now we have the press
as part of the global security state. It's part of the military industrial complex.
It doesn't want the people to know how public money is being spent on
a losing proxy. War halfway across the world. That's costing hundreds of thousands
of lives on the Ukrainian side and many many lives on the Russian side as
well. It's costing the Western public untold billions of dollars per week, and
it's putting people in fuel poverty throughout Europe because of the spike in energy,
electric and gas, etc. So there's a lot of public interest in this,
but the media of now decided it's they're going to try to curtail the
debate, kind of muffle the muffle the subject matter, and start focusing on
this weird in cell right wing troubled soldier who had a hungry complex. They
saying he was hungry for power. He wanted to show off to his fellow
gamers in this private twelve person chat group how powerful he was. Do you
see the level of gaslighting here. They've taken this relatively insignificant, low level
military employee and now accusing him of wielding power in a twelve person discord chat
group. Half of them are and on stock puppets, if not all of
them, And so that's, according to the press, wielding power. Meanwhile,
the contents of the actual document show you the absolute galactic abusive power by
US, NATO, NATO, Allies, Britain, etc. Abuse of power,
and also just the huge propaganda whitewashing operation on this. You see how
they flipped it is. This is all very very carefully managed, and most
people either don't get it or don't want to get it because because if they
get it, then there it's incumbent upon them to kind of take an opposing
position to the government on it, the Western government. So it's not a
question of, you know, the moral argument of whether this is a just
war or not. The point is the US government, Western government has been
lying to their own public for the last thirteen months. That's the whole point
of the league should be the point of league. That's the press should be
reporting it, because the press have been a party to that whole system of
lies as well. But they're avoiding it. They're even avoiding showing the documents,
even if they're circulating already in public, even though they're out of date,
even though there's nothing in there that the Russians don't already know. Therefore,
in terms of strategic value, there's none on the battlefield, but there's
a lot of political capital tied into it. There's a few pieces of disinformation
in there, but they could just very well be the usual flotsam and jetsam
of what the intelligence community might put in their daily briefings in order to propagandized
politicians who might be reading it. For instance, one of potential piece of
misinformation wartime intentional misinformation might be and I'm not saying I would know the medical
condition of the Russian president, but this rumor that's been circulating in US media
for the last year that Putin's dying of cancer and that he could die any
day now, he's getting chemo treatment, et cetera. Whether that's true or
not, who knows. Could be true, might not be true. By
the same token, could be true for Joe Biden as well, And if
it was, would you be told about it? Probably not, for why
national security reasons. There you go, I rest my case. So what's
news, what's not news, what's important, what's not important. That's why
you listen to the show as we try to parse this out for you,
so you have some understanding of what you're looking at, but you don't need
to look any further than the EU. They're in pain. Europe's in pain.
Germany has become a doormat for the United States. It's sad, and
so I feel for the German people. I've spoken to some Germans recently,
and I sympathize for them because they've been actually taken to the cleaners in such
a massive way, and it's sad. So Ukraine EU backers are skeptical of
the counter offensive. Well, there it is, there it is. This
is Bloomberg News claiming that hopes have been dampened thanks to these leaks. You
see, you see how that works exactly as I explained it last week,
and as I reiterated this week, some of these EU countries have been supporting
Ukraine with tons and tons of money, money they can't afford to support it
with sending them their weapons, to the point where these European countries have empty
stockades, they have no tanks, they have no air defense, where Russia
could march right to Berlin right now with very little resistance. And but but
but suddenly, after thirteen months, they're beginning to doubt whether Kiev can recapture
large swaths of territory in twenty twenty three. So now they've written off the
whole of twenty twenty three. Isn't this interesting? Son? And here I
quote, even modest advance would likely result in heavy casualties among Ukrainian personnel.
What do you think's happening in back moot right now? That's exactly what's been
happening. And they haven't been reporting on it. They haven't been reporting on
it because it would have hurt their war effort, the very thing they're backpedaling
on right now. And that just shows you what a farce this whole thing
has been from day one. That's all this shows amazing. Oh, here
we go the caveat Ah. Ukrainian personnel would require considerable amounts of ammunition hardware
in order to keep the fight going. So you see, they've got two
options here. One is winded down, sue for peace. The second is
keep going. The second is use this leak, use this bad news,
use this story of underequipped, underresourced Ukrainian forces. Use that to drum up
more support for weapons, more money for a little while longer. You see,
even though there's no prospect of winning, what would you do if you
were in charge, If you had a brain, and you were a president
or prime minister of your country and someone said, you know, show some
team spirit for Ukrainian more tanks, weapons, a few hundred more billion for
the next four months, please please, you know, just they still want
to fight, they'll brave. Ukrainians still want to fight. And while that
may be true, how stupid of a strategy is that when in the same
document and the same statements they're saying that, but ultimately it doesn't look like
they'll be able to regain lost territory. Well, what would you do if
you were in charge and someone told you those two things, Well, of
course you're gonna say, well, why waste the hundreds of billions, why
waste the weapons? Why why see another twenty or thirty thousand dead Ukrainian soldiers?
Why not just stop now and negotiate for peace. Doesn't that make sense?
Isn't that the common sense thing to do if you were in charge,
if you were given the reigns of power, if you're a statesman, isn't
that what a statesman would do? Isn't that what your diplomats would do?
But we don't have statesmen. But we don't have diplomats. They're gone,
they left the room. No one's seen them. For ages where are the
statesmen? Where are the diplomats, because they surely haven't shown up for the
Ukrainian farrago. I don't see them, nobody's seen them. Where are they?
We see them in China? China, the diplomats are in the ascendancy.
They're running point, They're they're signing peace deals left the right, in
center, joint cooperation deals. Russia's got their diplomats internationally shuttling back and forth.
What about America? What are they saying? Where's Tony Blinkin on this?
Where is any plans? Is? What's the strategy? I guess it's
just keep sending weapons and cross your fingers and hope there's enough for Ukrainian soldiers
to see out the final months of twenty twenty three. That's not a strategy.
Shame on Americans, Shame on anybody in the UK, in Europe,
in Natostan. That's your strategy. Just through keep throwing money and weapons for
the rest of the year, even though there's no military victory to be had
in Ukraine, even though you admit that the fantasy that Zelenski is going to
march into Crimea, into Sevestopol, like you know, victorious through the Arc
de Triomphe of Duniesk and Lugans. It's not going to happen either. They're
not going to march on Mariopol and liberate Mario saved the Russians from the Russians
in Mariopo. It's not going to happen. That's fantasy and did over the
other Oblasts. It's not going to happen. So what's the plan. What's
the plan? Oh, keep going, they say, keep going, just
a bit longer, just a bit longer. The Ukranes are putting up a
brave fight. We need to we need to push them to fight more,
Yes, sir, But what about the casualty numbers? Well, well,
they they want to fight. It's their war, it's not our war.
But we were paying for it. We're financing it, We're providing all the
weapons and the satellite targeting information, and we're doing all the spying for them
and the reconnaissance. And by the way, we admit that we have special
forces. United States of America has Special Forces troops on the ground and a
combat capacity in Ukraine now. And it's also been alluded to, and if
not admitted, at least implicitly, that Britain has the same and they have
for a very long time, more for most of the most of the duration
of this conflict. Okay, but that's been admitted in these leagues, you
see, because a politician couldn't say that publicly. But it's okay, it's
in the leagues. It's been drifted out. It's now implicitly understood. So
the difficult pill could be sugarcoated and swallowed nicely without having to shove it down
anyone's throats. So no politician has to own that even though they're the ones
who are allocating the funding for it, they're the ones who are rubber stamping
these operations. This is how politics works, folks. You're getting a great
lesson. I wish this was the last lesson. I really do. I
wish this was it. I wish this was the last lesson, but it's
not. It's not going to be the last less and so it's up to
us to learn how these how Washington really works, How Washington really works.
Great title for a book that was actually the first US political science textbook,
and higher ed that that was given to me as a thin paperback. I
think it was probably published in nineteen eighty four something like that. It's called
How Washington Really Works. That was one of the things that opened my eyes
and I realized, Ah, I was only eighteen or nineteen years old.
I cracked that book. It was given to me by my professor at the
time, and I'm very grateful he gave me that book. I still have
that book. I got a different copy of it because the other one I
was lost among the rest of the textbooks. But nonetheless very important little book.
How Washington really works, how the West, Western politics really works,
and this is how it works. This is how it works. Let's take
a break here with our network and we will be back on the other side
with a very special guest author, Jay Dyer, author of Esso Tera Hollywood,
Jaysonalysis dot com. We're gonna have a great conversation. Looking forward to
it. We'll see on the other side. Does the consequence our freedom to
break the chains of history? Yes? Ask myself time and time again.
Am I to cause me fourth? Yesterday is truly old? Why does it
sometimes of a hold on me? Is the consequence of my freeom to find
the lights in the dark of me? Who is a scale? These?
While a reason to reach the top to see what's in front of me?
Yours? I look into little old mirror. I don't recognize eyes. What
I see covered and darkness, shackled by the chains of dark to me?
Yes, I ask myself time and tanking. Would am I to be?
Yes? I ask myself time and time again. Would am I to be?
Is the consequence of my freedom to break the chains of my history?
You're asking myself time and time again? Am I the unknown of me?
Four fistity is truly over? Why does it sometimes have hold on me?
Is the consequence of my freedom to find the light in the dark of me?
As I scale these wilds of reason to reach the top to see what's
in front of me, you're sillokin too, little mirror. I don't recognize
now what I see covering dars, checkered by the chains of dark cud to
me? You as I ask myself time and time again, would am I
to be? Yes? I ask myself time and time again, would a
mind to be? It is a scale out these wild's reason to reach the
south to see what's in front of me. Yes, I look into the
little mill now, I reckon that has what I see exact from darkness like
a cage bird. Us been free your s I ask you all to ask
yourselves what am I be? Yours? I ask you all to ask your
own selves what am I to be? A mouse who finds himself drowning in
a bucket of cream has two choices, drown or fight, so hardy curts
that cream into butter Jerry and simply climbs out. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen,
Welcome back to the Sunday Wire again. I'm your host, Patrick Kenningson,
will streaming out live on the Alternate Current Radio network and also at twenty
first Centurywire dot com. And now we've got a really special guest joining us
right now. Very pleased to be welcoming back to the program, author Jay
Dyer. His work is very well known, our listeners know him very well
over the years, and Jay has also guest hosted this program a number of
times. And we haven't spoke for a while, and there's a lot going
on in the world, and firstly I just want to welcome you to the
program. Jay. Thanks Patrick, glad to be back. Yeah. I
think it was maybe two years ago we spoke about some of the issues happening
in the Ukraine at that time that you know, sparked off today's topic,
I guess for the religious divisions that are going on there, which my view
are very much planned divisions. So I'm glad to be back. No thanks,
thanks for coming back. I mean, yeah, the world's in an
upheaval over this conflict, as you can imagine, and all sorts of things
have come out of it, and there's all sorts of games that are being
played on a European level within Ukraine itself, geopolitically globally as a result of
this. And I know one of the focuses that in your work anyway is
looking at the history of the CIA, the history of the deep state,
of clandestine covert activities and infiltraining into areas like Hollywood, entertainment, culture and
religion. And so this has become a kind of an interesting aspect of the
conflict in Ukraine. Is this religious aspect of the Orthodox Church in Ukraine's splitting.
And I know we've spoken about this previously, but we definitely benefit from
a recap from you, just to kind of explain how we got to this
point. And people regarding in the West Zelensky Ukraine, it's a democracy Russia's
an autocracy. That's the new schism. This is the new you know,
capitalism versus communism. Now it's autocracy versus democracy. And we must back the
democracy, the fledgling democracy in Ukraine and pushed back against the Russian autocrats.
And what we see in Ukraine is some people a little bit shocked at how
could first of all, this this split that happened in the Orthodox Church.
And then later we see President Zelenski's government almost banning or making illegal or restricting
the religious freedoms of one part of the Orthodox Church in that country. And
people are shocked because, uh, you know, freedom of worship, freedom
of religion shouldn't be a threat to a democracy. But yet this is what
we're seeing in Ukraine right now. But just give us a little a little
summary of how you looked at the story and from the beginning and where it
is now. Yeah, some of them this topic kind of accidentally. I
mean I always had these interests, you know, in the realms of history
and history of the church and theology, and then I also had separate interests,
you know, in terms of movies. And I think a lot of
us nowadays maybe we can understand the interests that the CIA would have and something
like a cult, you know, scientology or some sort of weird fringe thing
or something related to mind control Jim Jones. But um, you know,
when you get deep into this topic, you start to realize we actually there's
an interest in any religion, and you know, in the history of religions
and their their relationship to the state, I think it's kind of a feature
of history that most of the time the state is very interested in religion.
They want to have an inroad, they want to be able to say what
the religion teaches, they want to control it in in some form or fashion.
We go back to you know, the early days the Christian Church.
We have the interests of various emperors who want to say, introduce new theology
in the first four or five sixth centuries. By the time of the seventh
century, we have a famous controversy called the Iconic class controversy, which deals
with the emperor basically at that time wanting to get rid of all art,
history and imagery in the Church, and that became a huge scandal. But
the reason I point to that is that it was mainly a state oriented control
mechanisms, So it was really the emperor that had the desire to do this.
Then when we get into the period in the Middle Ages, we see
a lot of the rise of the medieval papacy having a similar interest in wanting
to control, and in my view that the papacy really becomes a geopolitical power.
So even though it has a claim to being a religious a power,
it's more so shifting into a geopolitical power, particularly when we look at the
Renaissance period with those famous Borgias and you know, Alexander the six and these
kinds of characters that are basically commanding giant armies and so forth. So the
state has this you know, interest, and so the more that I delved
into this topic in terms of the twentieth century, we find this shocker.
It's no different. You know, when we look at the rise of the
Oss and the Cia, we find the early figures there were Roman Catholic.
Actually, so Bill Donovan eventually became a Roman Catholic and other famous CIA operatives.
For the most part, we're typically Roman Catholic. There were there were
some Episcopalians in there, but what they early on wanted to do was also
co opt and utilized religion as you can imagine, and I think prior to
that, in terms of the Western intelligence power structure, you could look at
a couple of entities like the Church of England. I mean, the Church
of England was not entirely an intelligence front, but in many ways we could
see a lot of Anglican missionaries and Anglican priests and ministers being really at various
times spies and functionaries of the British crown. So it's not going to be
any different when we come to the American Empire and how it functioned. And
in fact, there was a book I stumbled upon a couple of years ago
about how the Rockfeller family played a huge role in utilizing Protestant Evangelical missionaries primarily
at that time too. When they go into Latin America, in South American
countries or areas where there might be resources that are necessary, missionaries can can
be very useful for soft power. They can be useful for cultivating, you
know, relationships with locals and even believe it or not, I know you
could imagine this, but sometimes missionaries are used for black operations, so that
they might be there for drug running or arms trapping or anything like that that
you could think of and then would you say, would you say that now
NGO's kind of fulfilled a little bit of that role right that the church used
to play. Yeah, although I do think that the role of religious figures
still plays into this. In fact, there were some hearings in the nineteen
nineties that Congress did looking into the usage of missionaries in varying capacities at spies.
So this is even up into the nineties, still kind of a thing
that's known about and looked into and going on. And another book I came
across it was really good, I think, written by a guy who's a
former Soviet historian and analyst named Eric Wahlberg. He wrote a book called Postmodern
Imperialism, and he dealt a lot in that book with how religion is often
used by the imperial structure for various functions. Anyway, so getting up to
you know, where we are now, it's no surprise that we would see,
especially especially especially in the Cold War, a lot of these figures are
utilized. And there was a program that a couple guys came up without the
CIA, namely a guy named CD Jackson, working together with the Time magazine
Mogul Henry Luce. They came up with what they called the Doctrinal Warfare program,
and this was an idea where the the CIA would utilize the religions in
America, not just the Roman Catholic Church, but at that time mainly the
Roman Catholic Church. They had already kind of had their inroads into most of
the mainline Protestant denominations at that time that I'm speaking of the American inner deep
state power structure, so to speak. They were able to really move the
Roman Catholic Church into their sphere by a lot of compromise, by a lot
of co opting. And this is actually dealt with in a book I just
finished the other day about the Connection between Gladio, Organized Crime and the Mafia
by Paul Williams. This is a really good book. I knew about Gladio
and I knew about the overview of it, but this one into such detail
with its connection to the Vatican Bank and the P two mafia and Italy and
how Gladio was really setting up all of these cells across Europe and even in
Latin and South America, kind of on that Iran Contrada death squad model,
and no in other words, that all connects into the religious realm. So
the CI had a huge interest, particularly through the character William Colby, in
setting up a special relationship with the Vatican at that time Pius the twelfth,
and the deal was basically, tens of millions of dollars will flow into the
Vatican Bank, but you're gonna be the clearinghouse. You're gonna be the money
laundering bank, because it's a super secret, you know, secret bank that
is not under the purview of the Italian state, right it's its own city
state. So that you can see how this becomes a perfect cover in that
case, for in the case the Vatican Bank for black operations and funding all
kinds of crazy things. But we can see the same pattern I'm saying with
the co opting of the Vatican, the Roman Collity Church even in the United
States, and some of these figures, the famous ones like Cardinal Cody and
a lot of people think Cardinal Spellman and these famous New York and Chicago figure
that they were actually recruited into the CIA. Uh. And this is this
is kind of famously well well known. Now we didn't know that at the
time, but this has kind of come out over time through various historians and
analysts. Long story short, this is par for the course, is what
I'm trying to say, So that the power structure, the deep say,
the intelligence apparatus, absolutely would like to utilize religious institutions as far as they
can, and if they could have total control, they would. And so
we see another great example of this at the time of the Cold War in
terms of Orthodoxy. And this will parallel where we are today when these recently
declassified documents from the oss were sent to the patriarch at the time of the
nineteen forties and fifties. At that time, I think his name was Athenagoras,
and Athenagoras was basically they sent it a cable directly to athenegors by Bill
Donovan in the OSSCI and it basically said, uh, you're going to do
what we want. And the patriarchs absolutely, I'm going to do what you
want. No, have no fears, I submit to you. Now this
is odd because in the Orthodox idea, the patriarchate and the bishops they're supposed
to be decentralized, that they're not supposed to be subservient to geopolitical powers.
Unfortunately, that's not actually the case, it doesn't operate that way, and
so we can begin to see that at the time of the Cold War,
what what the CIA was doing with the doctrinal warfare program in the US in
terms of the Roman Catholic structure and trying to influence and get get in roads
into the Vatican, which they did achieve via William Colby and Price to twelve.
They did the exact same thing in the Orthodox world with you know,
hey, come into our sphere. You know, we gotta fight against these
evil Soviets. They're the bad guys. And so they played a very kind
of you know, black and white manique and dialectic game of come on board
with us, and we'll defeat the evil Soviet Empire, not not realizing probably
that the new masters that you take on might even be worse than those other
masters. So in time, you know, your new masters really exact a
heavy cost. And when we come up to the present day in the situation
the Ukraine, that's exactly what the OS or the CIA has done in the
State Department in this case with the patriarch in of Constantinople, who has really
been openly under the thumb of the State Department of this entire time. And
that's what we that's what we find out by public statements of the State Department,
Like they go the CIA goes and meets publicly with right, the patriarch
meets with Biden, goes and meets with him, right, And then you
get the basically the on Twitter when this fake Orthodox Church is created, you
get all these public accolades from the US Embassy, from the State Department congratulating
Ukraine and creating a new church and all and again it was who is the
current patriarch and constantinople? And is that regarded as a unified kind of the
doc's church? Is he the kind of the global of the of the hierarchy
globally? Would he be the top? And how does this system? So
here's the irony is that so of course an the Orthodox Church, it's it's
there's no pope figure rights, so the bishops are technically speaking equal. There
are certain canonical privileges that are given to important old patriarchs or patriarch it's of
really large jurisdictions. For example, the largest is Russia, right, So
the Moscow patriarchy, that's the largest jurisdiction in all of orthodoxy. Um.
But if we go back to the Byzantine period, you know, the first
thousand years of Christianity, the patriarch Constantinople was given a lot of canonical privileges
in the councils next to the Pope of Old Rome. So you have New
Rome, which is Constantinople, Old Rome, which is the papacy the pope.
Right, this is prior to the schism in ten fifty four between the
East and West. So really the only privileges that Constantinople, today's patriarch is
bar with all of you. They're just kind of old traditional privileges because there's
not a Byzantine empire anymore. You know, he has I think under his
jurisdiction a few thousand people, right, It's it's not that big, but
it has a lot of old kind of um. As we said, canonical
traditional privileges. But that doesn't really translate into today's world, of which which
Orthodox church or jurisdiction has the biggest number of people, which is by far
the Moscow patriarchy. So you can begin to see that from the vanished point
of the American security state. Hey, we want to have influence over well
whatever you know patriarchies we can, but particularly we want Constant to noble because
that's the oldest kind of honor privilege position in Orthodoxy. Since Rome is no
longer a part of Orthodox Christianity, if functions as a key way to put
pressure obviously on Russian. So that's the key, that's the main point here.
And so prior to all of this, you know, invasion of twenty
fourteen with the coup in Crimea fostered by the last the Orthodox Church was had
a lot more influence in terms of the patriarchs. So the Jerusalem patriarch,
the Alexandrian patriarch, right the Russian sphere had a lot of influence, and
they that those patriarchs sided with Russia. And then as my friend Jim Jotras
has detailed and a lot of his work and a lot of his writings,
there's a lot of skull duggery that went into flipping these patriarchis now the supporting
Uncle Sam And so you know, we can imagine all manner of tricks were
used, right, the money you better do it or else, you know,
these kinds of things that we typically would expect. And the same thing
as I said that the reason I brought Roman Calory Church are the same things
we're done with the doctrinal warfare program in the Cold War to the Roman Calvary
Church. It's just the same model that they're applying now to the Orthodox world,
and they're saying, hey, go against evil Putin and the Moscow patriarch
it and if you do, you know you're going to get all these privileges
from Uncle Sam or perhaps even threats from Uncle Sam. Right, So that's
how they do it. They kind of flip these patriarch it's in important bishoprics
to supporting Uncle Sam, which is exactly what they did in the Cold War
in nineteen forty four to Athenagorus, where they told him basically, you know,
hey, if you side with the USS, here's all these privileges.
If you don't, we might ruin you. You know. It's kind of
that's the old mafia style tactic, right, like, hey, we got
all the blessings for you if you come on our side, and if you
don't, you might not be alive next week, right, this kind of
a thing. So that's how it works. That's what's going on. And
another element to this that I should mention is that in the Ukraine, a
lot of influence and a lot of religious manipulation engineering have occurred in the last
few decades, even prior to twenty fourteen, through institutions like Evangelicalism, Pentecostalism,
and what's called Uniatism, which is Eastern Christians who are under the pope,
so particularly Greek Uniates, and a lot of Unionism, especially in Ukraine,
is fostered and promoted by Jesuits. So the Jesuit universities in the United
States where we were figures like John Brennan, come right, Brennan comes out
of I think Fordham Fordham University is a major Jesuit institution, and these institutions
are verifiably one hundred percent kind of on board with the CIA program. Going
back to this doctrinal warfare program from the nineteen fifties and sixties under the famous
American Jesuit John Courtney Murray. So basically that, as we said, the
CD Jackson and Henry Luce, they had cooked up this doctrinal warfare program and
they needed to recruit the most prestigious American academics and Jesuits right to really push
the americanist agenda in the Roman Catholic Church, and they did that through figures
like John Courtney Murray and as I mentioned, other important cardinals. And so
that's the exact same program, the same attack vector that they're doing in the
Ukraine and have done for many years. Is that essentially the CIA utilizes Unionism,
utilizes Pentecostalism, evangelicalism, all of these institutions that could be used to
be anti Russia. Basically is the main point of this. And so part
of attacking the Russian sphere of influence is not just geopolitically and Poroshenko and Zelenski
and controlling these people by also controlling the religious fere and splitting the Orthodox Church
right down the middle. And that's exactly what they did by ironically, here's
the great part that's so wild. The figure that they installed Denisenko to be
the new CIA patriarch, State department patriarch in the newly created Orthodox Church in
Ukraine was already recognized as a phony by Bartholomew prior to this. So he
was the sort of character kind of starting his own thing, a defract guy
in the Orthodox world, literally the frock Bartholomew. The patriarch concept had already
agreed that this is the Frock phony. Oh but Uncle Sam makes a few
phone calls and says, do this, do that. Now he's suddenly a
new Orthodox cleric, and Bartholom he says he's going to be our Orthodox guy
in Ukraine. When the entire Orthodox world outside of Bartholomew already had recognized this
guy as a phony. Everybody kind of knew it, right, it's all
mainstream news. Now he's the the new you know, State Department a guy
in Ukraine. So that that's how it works. Unfortunately, So now where
how the latest chapter in this drama? Here Zelenski declares war on the enemy
within the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Kiev fears a Russian fifth column is operating inside
one of the country's oldest and most powerful institutions. So what a strange turn
things have taken here, Jay, what's going on? Well, well,
this is exactly what the State Department wanted, and you know it's not It
doesn't take a PhD and this stuff to figure out. Like we said that
the pressures that were being kind of pushed and put on the Ukraine in twenty
fourteen with the coup would eventually lead to a schism, as I said Jim
Japtress had written an entire article that the CIA and State Department's goal in Ukraine
was to split the Orthodox Church down the middle. And so to do that,
you don't just need a new sort of made up fake patriarch, you
also need a new made up fake church. And so how do we get
that, Well, these is what it do is just seize them. So
just go in and take the churches that are already the canonically accept the churches.
Keep in mind that the rest of the Orthodox world, including Bartholomew,
already recognized as just the normal Orthodox Church in Ukraine. So the best way
to do that is to seize it. A lot of monks and priests typically
can't just go seize it, although a lot of these new fake fake church
guys I actually do go out and beat up people. In fact, Dennisinko
said that if you want to, if you're a priest and you want to
fight for the Ukrainian army against Russia, you have the blessing to do that.
Now that's odd because in Orthodox canon law, priests and bishops can't engage
in warfare. They can bless you know, the armies or troops or whatever.
But you're not supposed to go and fight, but in this case you
can't. So it's again, it's all, it's all just it's really transparent
if you kind of know the history of the Church, that this is just
one percent a geopolitical puppet tool situation. So if we're not going to get
the priests and bishops to go to steal the Orthodox Church as well, we'll
get the state too. And so that's essentially what Zelenski's there now to do
is to just co opt and steal the biggest ancient monasteries that are there,
steal the big churches, and that's what that's what he's been doing the last
couple of months. So outlaw the Orthodox Church, bannit the canonical Orthodox Church,
and then just steal the churches. And this is nothing new either.
We've seen in the history of Christianity. This is the state has a tennessee
to do this. For example, when Henry the eighth created the Anglican Church,
this is a very close parallel to what we see here. I'm not
Roman Catholic, but in England, right prior to Henry the eighth, you
have essentially the Catholic Church in England, and Henry the Eighth's you know,
he's influenced by some of the Protestant ideas, and he says, well,
why don't I just create the Church of England and I'll be the head of
the church. Right, forget this pope guy over in Rome. Let I'll
be the head of the Church of England and it will be the church of
the British Empire, and I'll run and control that. And so what does
he do, Well, he goes and just seizes the Catholic churches right throughout
England. And great perfect parallel to what we see with Zelinski, except that
I'm not aware of Henry the Eighth being a tool of any other empire.
But in this case we have essentially Zelenski as a tool of you know,
the Western power block, the Atlantis's power structure. And so he's just been
emboldened and told ye, go take the monsters. And why would that be
surprising? And didn't it just come out I think the Seymour Hirsch just talked
about how well he's been skimming off like four hundred million anyway that we know
of, So not surprising that they would just go steal the churches it's it's
the Henry the eighth model. And so here's the I believe this is yes,
Metropolitan Pavel. He's saying, woe to you have fear, says the
senior Orthodox bishop tells Zolenski, the Ukrainian president responsible for religious crackdown in Ukraine,
and so like fighting words here coming from the church leader there, And
what do you make of this? I mean, it's kind of pulling the
church into a really deep political place, isn't it, Where what choice do
they have? They have to come out with very provocative statements like this,
and so it's kind of it's interesting and a little bit scary on one level.
What do you think about this? Yeah, Another parallel to the move
of Zelenski there is what we see the Bolsheviks doing when they first came to
power in Russia. So the Bolsheviks did a very similar move where they just
basically went and seized churches, and their first approach was to just burn them
down because the early phases of the Bolsheviks, they were militant atheists, and
their approach was, well, if we just stamp out religion, then we
can, you know, sort of propel the revolution to the next phase and
the workers will rise up in this kind of thing. They didn't really work.
It just led to a lot of death and destruction, the same kind
of approach that the French revolutionaries had in France, and so they decide,
well, a much better approach would be a sort of an infiltration or an
installing puppets type of approach. So by the time of Stalin we get that
with the Orthodox Church in Russia. I'm not saying it's all black and white
or that everybody was a fake. I'm just saying that the the NKBD Stalinist
model was we'll put people in who are amenable to us and kind of have
a church that sort of does its thing completely under the state, rather than
completely trying to stamp out religion. That's as it's a much more effective approach
for controlling people, what I'm trying to say. And so I think that
you're going to get the same model here as well with the State Department CIA
approach to controlling and running religion in Ukraine. And it's unavoidable, I guess,
because you know you're going to get people who are going to speak up
and say, you know, this is hypocrisy, it's it's it's it's crazy
because when we think of the West, where we typically are supposed to think
of freedom of religion and free enterprise and neoliberal economics Lisa Fair, and we're
we're told that it's all these promises of freedom. If you remember a few
weeks ago or maybe a month ago, right, wasn't Zelinsky on some video
saying if you wanted to get a business, Hey, if you are ready
on bowling big business, come through Ukraine. We'll give you whatever the coca
cola. Right he was. He was giving the speech to the Black Row
come through Ukraine, uh, recruiting you know, the fortune one hundred to
come to Ukraine. So I watch, So this is about freedom, Well
that's now, it's not about freedom because if your Orthodox uh, your churches
are stolen in your ban and your shut out, so it's all a facade.
It's not about religious freedom. It's about whatever is amenable to the interests
of uh, you know, Washington, to the Atlantis's power structure. And
so I'm glad to see a lot of Orthodox bishops and people and ladies standing
up and opposing it. But it's just very difficult to you know, fight
against Uncle Sam ultimately with the weapons of religion, I guess pacifism and a
prayer and all that way. It's great. I'm not I'm not knocking that.
It's just that, um, you know, they're they're not interested in
that. They're interested in, you know, beating up and running the Orthodox
out and killing them and so what what what kind of how can this backfire
on Zelenski, on the Ukrainian government? Um, even with non Orthodox Ukrainians.
I mean, this is kind of you know, this is this isn't
your normal sort of thing going on here? It could this backfire against the
government on this. It looks like it is backfiring because it's so unpopular.
I mean, I the only time I see people championing this, it's you
know, the most brainwashed sort of NPC people that are out there who really
have no idea, the sort of individuals who follow the next thing because they're
told to, right, the person who switches out the BLM black square for
the you know Ukraine flat. You know, I went through Texas and you
go through Texas driving this was a few months ago, and you see giant
Ukraine flags flying right, and I know you've probably joked about this too.
And it's like, do they even know where that is? You know,
well, why are we flying giant? What is this about? Right,
we're flying the rainbow flag, now we're flying the Ukraine flag, and we're
just doing it because we're told to. So, you know, unless it's
the most brainwash kind of majority or too maybe even minority now or forty percent
of the population who watches CNN and you know, has no clue. And
aside from that, I think it's really unpopular. People are figuring out that
what I'm paying all my tax money and Zelensky skimming off four hundred million and
he's you know, buying estates and other countries and mansion. It just makes
no sense, right, It's it's like a kind of a big racket.
And hopefully people are figuring that out. But um, I think that the
media and the push of what we see on Twitter uh is is backfiring.
I think people it's just super unpopular as far as I can tell, and
people don't understand why are we supposed to care so much about Ukraine. It's
far off and it doesn't affect the average Americans daily existence, and so it
doesn't make much sense to the average American. But you know, they're conflicted
because they're told by the power structure. But I think maybe also people are
starting to figure out, hey, wait a minut, doesn't Biden and his
son don't they have a lot of interest in Ukraine? Maybe that plays into
partly, right right, why you created I'm not saying it's only about Biden
and their business deals. I'm just saying that, you know, this came
up in the campaign with Trump. You know, Trump was talking about Barisma,
Trump was talking about the Ukraine, and so people kind of have a
loose idea of like, hey, it seems like there's something to do with
Biden and corruption in Ukraine, and that seems to make sense, and maybe
that's why we're there in part. But it's more than that, because it's
a big long term game against against Russia and anybody in this sphere of influence
of Russia. So hopefully I think it is Backbary. So so just looking
at the fall of the Iron Curtain, you mentioned what the Orthodox Church was
like, or what church was like during the Soviet Union, very much depressed,
I would think, in terms of its role in society under as you
said, under the thumb of the party, under the control of the party.
And so what happened after the Berlin Wall falls, the dissolution of the
old Soviet Union. Um, there was there a renaissance in the in the
church, and all of a sudden, the Church goes from being you know,
a nominal sort of force in society to attaining a much higher role in
fact, on par with the state in many ways. And the relationship between
the Russian state and its leadership and the church. And from a Western point
of view, this must this must must have been viewed as a threat,
especially looking now the whole social the woe agenda and all the all of these
things are antithetical to Russian Orthodox Church and traditional values, family values and things
like this. Would would they view this as a potential threat because you know,
you look at how subterfuge has been used in so many different countries using
social culture wars and things like this. How would how would the CIA have
viewed the fall of the Iron Curtain? Well, it seems like at the
time the propaganda was that, uh, when the when the wall falls,
will have freedom, freedom can finally be introduced into we can export the freedom
into these countries. Um. And and in a limited sense, you know,
if we look at something like the East German Stazi. I've been been
reading about the Stazi lately, and uh, the techniques and methods that they
would use to kind of surveil and and track people and keep tabs. And
you know, you have a file on you of oh you said something against
the party, we heard you whispering a couple of months ago. You want
to tell us about that, Maybe you need to go sit in to jail
for a few months and think it over. This kind of a heavy handed
tactic that we read about in the East German Stazi. And so the propaganda
of the eighties was very much geared towards this is so bad, we got
to introduce these freedoms. And I think on a basic level, okay,
that makes sense. Yeah, I don't think the Stazi were probably that nice.
I think they sound like they're probably probably pretty nasty. But here's the
thing, what's coming. What is the overall game plan of the people that
are introducing the new freedoms? Is it really about freedom? And I think
that's the scary part is that when I look at the overall agenda of what
the people you know, running the US have and it's not Joe Biden that
runs the US, obviously, it's it's much more powerful, wealthy people than
any of the goons in Washington. In my view, they have a much
more tyrannical agenda, far worse than what the Stazi had in mind. And
it was a great movie. I was just talking about this the other day
that illustrates this. It is a pro Western kind of an older German film.
It's called The Lives of Others, And if you watch it, you
get an idea of the it's attempting to be kind of a realistic portrayal of
the Stasi, and then the way that they would kind of put pressure on
artists and people that were actors and people like that in the theater and putting
pressure on them to submit to you, to the regime. And there's a
struggle between the Stazi guy and his own morals and ethics. And I was
watching that, I was thinking, Okay, so we're told, you know,
we're thinking, if we're in the eighties and the nineties, were thinking
this is this is so oppressive, and it's going to be so great when
we introduce these freedoms into these countries. And he could use the same model
for any Soviet Bloc country or any area like this. Here's the irony,
though, is that the people that are actually behind the freedom, when we
look at Klaus Schwap, when we look at Bill Gates, when we look
at the models of technocracy that they have in play, and this is the
CIA or the CIA is essentially under the thumb of these people. They're pushing
that agenda everywhere, including the transagenda. And it turns out that the CEO
of anheuser Busch was formerly a CIA operative, so no surprise that anheuser Busch
would then be party to pushing this agenda. So my point is this,
if we think that the agenda of the STAZI is this horrible thing in the
nineteen eighties and so forth, and I'm sure that it is what it was,
this is ten times worse. Could you imagine if the Easter Roman STAZI
had had access to what Klaus and Bill Gates want to have in place,
tracking everything that you do, rationing your food from womb to tomb, making
sure that you have these vaccines, these drugs, the nanotech in you,
tracking everywhere you go, shutting down flight, shutting down travel, shutting down
business. I mean, it's a million times worse. That's what I'm trying
to say. So that's the danger here is that this technocratic, crazy agenda,
and that's actually what Putin refers to doing the speeches. When Putin gives
the speeches, he's referring to this wild at Malthusian agenda wanted to push all
this crazy stuff everywhere in the world, and then we realize, oh,
this is not actually about freedom at all. That's a cloak. And they
call it. They used the term the Russian site that termed the Golden billion.
I've heard Lavrov say it, I've heard Putin say it to tell people
what that Are you familiar with that? I'm actually not. What is up?
It's the golden billion. I think this has something to do with the
Malthenthusian agenda, that the Western globalist has this vision that there's a golden billion
that's the one to preserve. Everything else is you know, surplus to requirement.
Right, Oh, you mean like the principle like on the George guidestones,
getting it down to this number. I say, I think so,
I think that's what they mean. So they've the Russian uh, you know,
high level russianisters have said this multiple times, and it's like a it
gives you a little bit of uh you know, uh, it kind of
makes the hair stand up on their back of neck if they're conscious of that
on that level. And they're saying that publicly heads of state, foreign ministers
directed at Western leaders. That's that's quite a strong finger they're pointing back,
and it kind of says, well, I guess they recognize that these things,
you know, this is a real agenda. Yeah, this thing so
yeah, I mean, as you know, you know that. I guess
the wildest part is that that overall agenda is really written about in many of
these texts, right, many of the texts from the power structure in the
West. You know, they have a long time ago adopted that Malthusian idea,
uh, you know, coming again coming out of the British imperial model
of how to run the world. Uh. And it's it's it's basically just
an anti human approach. And to tie it back into the Ukraine, uh,
something I didn't realize until fairly recently when I when I got into Gladio
and reading about all that, that a lot of that tied into Reinhard Galen
and the Galen network and what's called Galen, the Galen Org. And that
was an idea that while Bill Donovan and Alan Dallas had cooked up too well.
Okay, so it's post World War two. We got a lot of
these, uh, leftover Nazi intelligence networks. What do we do with these
people? Like, we got a whole bunch of these. Now everybody's heard
of paper Clip, right, so we all know about that. Well,
so that's that's only part of the story, right, So paper Clip.
We'll put some of these guys over at NASA. Everybody knows about Berner von
Braun going to NASA, this kind of stuff. But there's also these other
networks of assassins and trained killers. There's the figure of I think is that
one guy named Wolf. There's the figure of Otto Skorzeny, There's the figure
of Reinhard Galen. And these are all people coming out of the OSS I
was giving out of the ss LSS might as well be the SSH and and
so they're just put into new work for the OSS and CI. And the
idea is, uh, just go to these other countries and train hitman and
killers for us. And that's what they do. And I didn't even realize
until fairly recently that the modern German intelligence, the B and D literally is
just the Galen organization. Galen sets up German intelligence. Now I'm not saying
that today's German intelligence are overtly Nazis. We know that they're not. But
here's the point is that the Galen organization not only was it of a central
piece of GLADIOL and training to stay behind units to fend off any kind of
Russian invasion that could happen down the road. That was the auspices for which
Gladio was set up was, oh, we got you know, the Stalin
might at any point invade Europe, so we got to have these stay behind
terror units, right, So basically terror training throughout Europe and in Latin and
South America. And so one of those areas was that Galen and his crew
and one of the people that Galen train, I forget the name of the
guy off top of my head, but they actually went and train and set
up the the Nazi UH networks that are still in Ukraine. And Ukraine was
a key vantage of key point that Hitler wanted to capture at one point.
Obviously, Hitler's setting his sights on Russia. Thus Ukraine was really important.
And this is part of the reason why there's these old sort of Odessa there's
the Odessa network and these Nazi networks that have been there for so long.
And that's why they're still there today and supported by you know, Uncle Sam
and all the supposed liberals in the West. Is that it is it's not
really about ideology. Ultimately, ideology is kind of a tool that can be
used. And so that's why the West and the CIA have I've for so
long fostered and funded and aided Uh these you know fake well they're Alan say
they're fake Nazis, they're real Nazis, but they're not really. Um,
their controlled movements is what I'm trying to say. And it goes directly back
to the Galen organization, which something I just recently read about. Yeah,
the state and the state behind all the intelligence they gathered on the Ovits and
so forth, all that got transferred. That's a lot of power, a
lot of you know, information, valuable information that the US managed to they
paid for. I'm sure they paid for it as well. Um that wasn't
free, but uh, but yeah, that's that's a story of the Cold
war the early that most people aerodynamic operation that was declassified or that's on the
CIA's website. You know that a lot of documentation there of US supporting Nazi
factions and stay behind operations in Ukraine and also in eastern southeastern Poland as well,
right after the war nineteen forty eight, I think, right till the
to the present. Yeah, exactly. Uh, well, the groups that
are there traced their lineage to um uh step On Bendera and this kind of
a stuff. Right, So the groups around step On Bendera were trained by
an individual train by Galen or so that that's the connection there. Um.
I don't remember the name of the military person that Galen sent into Ukraine,
but it was somebody he trained basically. So yeah, so that's how we
get to today. And you can see that it just really shows the hypocrisy
of Uncle Sam and you know, we're so we're you know, if you
live in the US, you know this right For people that are watching that
don't live in the US, I mean, it's just it's always beat into
your head, especially in the last you know, since the Trump era.
Nazi, Nazi, Nazi, Nazi, Nazi, Nazi, everybody, it's
all Nazis. And it's just ridiculous given the fact that most of the people
in America who are conservative or right wing or whatever are not actually anything close
to Nazi in reality, in the United States, there aren't any actual,
real quote Nazis. It's all you know, maybe eighteen year olds on the
Internet or some of the Fortune or something. It's not it's not a real
thing, but it's just hyped up in the media as if there's this great,
huge, you know, towering white supremacist threat. And the hypocrisy is
that the same power structure hyping this up in America is openly literally funding the
real people in Ukraine that have these wild, crazy, uh eugenics based ideologies,
which you know, you've talked about this since I since I met you,
you know, all the way back to twenty thirteen fourteen, you've been
covering and talking about what's really the real Nazis in Ukraine. I remember when
you first mentioned that back in twenty fourteen, when you were covering the coup.
I was like, I was thinking, Wow, so there's really these
actual, you know, ones that that that go out and at will beat
people up, and they will engage in warfare and you know these uh,
they have like these little neopagan sort of units that they have and and I
didn't even realize that was a real thing in these other countries back in twenty
fourteen that you called attention to it, and then you find out the history
of it is that well, yeah, they're they're all there as sort of
proxy warriors for for for America. And that's just the crazy part, right.
And but in America we get all this social justice hypocrisy about you know
anything, you know, if you want to have a party where you want
to have a Christian church, you're a right wing Nazi. You know,
anything you do is you're a right wing Nazi. It's just amazing the level
of hypocrisy that people don't don't know about. And and they're flying their Ukraine
flags uh and and they're they're putting up a BLM square, they're supporting BLM,
and they're saying, oh, but we got to support the Nazis and
Ukraine. It's just crazy. And Nancy, even Nancy Pelosi in Congress shouting
Slava Ukraini like open the Ukrainian nationalist slogans. You know, these are people
that if you fly in American flag in America, they'll they'll call you a
you know, maybe call you a fascist or a right winger, and literally
they're they're going for the full boar on Ukrainian nationalism in a country that probably
can't even locate on the map before you know, last year. But pretty
amazing, unbelievable. Really, Yeah, it was the same model. You
know, I remember when all the Syria coverage that you do, the white
helmets and all that, we start to see this, Hey, actually a
lot of this is the same pattern. And I don't want to over uh
you know, drive everybody crazy with talking about Gladio. Non stuff is just
something that I dubbed deeper into and read some more books on that I only
kind of had a cursory knowledge of. Um. But the model of Gladio,
of the cell units, the stay behind the terror, funding it with
drug money. Uh guess what, it's exactly the same pattern of what you
do with the radical Muslims. It's the exact same. And that that's what
kind of blew me away, was that, Yeah, they're different, operations
are different. Uh, you know, Gladio is not identical to al Qaeda,
ISIS and all this kind of stuff. But it's the same structure and
model of how the deep state does and runs their black operations, and that
schism. So World War two, the Catholic Orthodox schism, especially in Eastern
Europe as as Germany, it was marching east word going through Hungary is a
good example, and Croatia. And so now you know the schisms you have
today, the wounds from they go, they date back to World War Two
and maybe even before that. But Serbs being Orthodox more fealty towards Russia.
Uh, Croats being Catholic allied with the Germans, and then Hungary is a
really fascinating one as well, and so Ukraine as well. Same thing.
You have this split Catholics in Galicia and what used to be Poland and the
previous iteration of that the Polish you know, Grand Duchy or whatnot. So
but look at who's in politics today. They're the Victoria Newland, Christia Freeland
in Canada and some of these people in the State Department, National Security Council.
It's almost jay as if they select people that have a generational acts to
grind against Russia. I've just noticed this on in the last couple of years,
and it's not it's and a lot of neo conservatives will fall into that
category as well. I mean, have you have you how do you think
that's a great point. Yeah, I hadn't thought about it with the specific
people you mentioned. But the most obvious example of that, the backs that
what you're saying is Brazinsky. Right, of course, Brazinski being Polish,
and I think the story was he had some kind of Polish nobility background,
long time animosity and hatred of Russia, and a lot of people think that,
you know, that motivated a lot of Brazensky's mindset during the Cold War
and particularly with you know, Operations Cyclone and trying to get the Soviet Union
bogged down in Afghanistan. That appeared to be a lot of what was going
on with Barzinsky. But yeah, I had not thought about that. That's
a really interesting point, that choosing people for their kind of personal vendettas or
anger, anger that they have due to you know, their their family,
their traditional background with these territorial disputes in these countries. Yeah, that's not
not something I know a lot about. Yeah, it is interesting. Also
there's the communist you know, post World two. Then there's the point Trotsky
So if the neocons descend from Trotskyites, then the Trotskyites would have a huge
amount of animosity towards UH, Stalin and the NKBD. So they would that
was and that's why a lot of these neocons go to the Rand Corporation and
they set up essentially what would be this UH anti Stalinist you know, cold
War operation. Basically whole Cold War is run out of Rand Corporation. I
would say, uh, and they want this this conflict. Stalin doesn't take
the Marshal plan aid which he was. They expected that he would, and
that's what kicks off the Cold War. And of course Stalin you knows,
as at least as the public story is, has Trotsky killed in Mexico.
So that's what kicks off a lot of this Neo Kon animosity exactly against against
Stalin. So that yeah, that's the other layer. So you know the
so you've got the ideological overlap the Venn diagram. Then you add the religious
and then that adds another dynamic to this, so you know, communism,
Catholicism. Uh. The Moonies are a good example, you know the UH
I was reading how the um if you if you agree Jay that the South
Korean Intelligence Services is run by the CIA or is under the thumber of the
CIA. They were giving money to UH and encouraging the Moonies to fund the
Anti Communist League activities in Asia, so you know, help using the church
or the colt or whatever to against communism basically. But great example. Yeah,
I forgot about the Moonies. And that was a whole thing, uh
that w Senior had was running because if I remember, uh is it did
he sell the Washington Times or he bought the Washington Times from the Moonies?
I can't remember. That was part of this deal, and I think it
isn't the It's called the k CIA, right, the Korea basically the CIA,
but it's the Korean ci um. Yeah, exactly. That's That's a
great example. And then and that the Mooney is that cult I figured heavily
into that Reverend Sun Young Moon's cult um and a lot of direct connections with
Bush Senior on that. Uh yeah, great, great parallel. I thought
of something else and I lost that. I forgot what it was. But
ye know, there's a lot of examples of this again, you know,
coming back to the CIA using these cults in other countries, and this actually
motivates why Russia in the last few years had banned UM not just scientology but
also the Joe's Witnesses because a lot of people don't know Joe's Witnesses are also
utilized by the CIA for spying and you know, all manner of activities like
that. But and there's a and a Mormon wing of the CIA, right,
what's that is there? Traditionally a Mormon wing of Oh. Absolutely,
the Mormon Church is heavily influenced and utilized by CIA. Absolutely because if you're
if you're a Mormon, you have to do a man I think a man.
I don't know if the women do it. Mormon men have a mandatory
two year foreign mission thing you have to do, and I think a lot
of them do learn a foreign language, which is obviously very useful for these
kinds of activities, intelligence activities. And yeah, Mormonism is absolutely utilized by
by the CIA. UM And in fact, we had a lot of famous
Who was that guy a couple of years ago that was he made a big
fuss about Trump and he was a big, a big Mormon CIA guy.
I remember that guy in the media. Maybe, Oh, Evan McMullan.
McMullan, that's yeah. He was a regime change expert for the CIA.
There you go. He did elections overseas, including Syria with the moderate rebels
in Syria, and then he ended up trying the regime change during the US
election by running to take Utah. Tried to get the electoral votes of Utah
off of Trump. Ye wasn't successful. Backed by Mitt Romney exactly. Yeah.
And don't forget another great example of this parallels not Mormon. But you've
talked about John McCain many times over the years, and you know, John
McCain not only did he go and fly and meet with the moderate moderate rebels,
he also went and flew and met with the fake CI created the guy
in Ukraine before became Passway. Yeah, he was on stage with Tanny Hook
and Faboda and all these guys, and John McCain and Chris Murphy Democrat senator
from Connecticut, Chris Murphy, both of them, and Lindsay Graham went over
there as well with McCain. They did a little sort of selfie it took
selfies with the Ukrainian troops, I mean, yeah, but also with the
fake patriarch too. So that there's there's a there's a great picture of a
former CIA director. He went and met with the State Department's chosen take patriarch,
Dennisinko. John McCain went and met with him. Biden obviously went and
hung out with him. There's a bunch of hanging out with Biden. But
oh, you reminded me to of another reason the motivations there, the old
grudges there would be that Mark Hackard is a really good essay that he translated
about the history of Kim Philby and Stalin and Israel, and at that at
one point Stalin was trying to court Israel. He wanted to get Israel under
his sway, and Israel ended up siding with the Western power structure, and
then that led to Stalin, I think, saying a lot of Jews need
to go to Israel. This made a lot of people mad. And so
this also is part of that anger that's that some especially the Jewish neo conservatives
have with Stalin, was over this kind of stuff. Okay, so that's
a legacy issue. I forgot about that one. You still hang that's interesting,
very interesting. Yeah, that one's a very interesting dynamic between Russian emigres
Israel, the socialist kubbutz utopia they tried to build, and then what it's
become today, which is like a hardcore ethno nationalist right wing. The current
the current situation Israel is interesting. But just to just to kind of sum
it up, it's back to the original. Well, we'll wrap it up.
We'll wrap this discussion up. This has been very good, very interesting,
and I hope, I hope everybody's learned something here or at least raised
some very compelling questions. But you know, this this idea that how important
the churches and I've flashed up this is just one of many stories from the
nineteen eighties with the CIA involved in you know, turning Roman Catholic bishops either
pro us anti us. There's also you know, the socialists bishops and the
cardinals and the dirty wars in Central America that became a real frontline battleground for
the US intelligence apparatus. Because is it because to win the hearts and minds,
or to win the or to influence large groups of people to to is
it easy? It's just is it the question that it's just more economical for
the you know, the power, the geopolitical power the hegemon to work through
church institutions and can they afford not to work through. In other words,
if you don't have control of religious institutions or cults or whatever, you really
can't you know, you can't met out your agenda without them. What are
your kind of final kind of thoughts on this in general? Yeah, that's
this was really complex when it comes to Latin South America. It's it's not
an area I know a whole lot about. I've read two books on this
topic, but I'm very limited in this. But why What I do understand
is the patterns elsewhere that match up to that, which is that so on
a really basic level, if you if we're asking why would they be concerned
with what's going on in Latin South America in the Cold War, Well,
obviously the Soviets would have an interest in those areas firstly, and they would
they would be interested. Everybody in a geopolitical sense is interested in controlling land,
controlling resources, controlling populations and the ideology of the populations. So at
that time you have I think it's a Nelson before Nelson is in office,
he's actually I think CIA station chief in either Latin or South America, and
so he's really obviously an operative for his family. And I think that a
lot of this, you could argue, perhaps even the CIA itself is really
just a kind of a private army for the Rockefellers. I think flame Ingdol
describes it as something like that. Other analysts have described it as something akin
to that, which makes sense to me. I think that's probably pretty much
true. So we don't want, for example, on a really basic level,
the liberation theology to influence and take over Latin South America, because on
a really basic level, that is something that the Soviets were interested in.
However, it's a little more complex than this, because a lot of Cold
warriors have a really kind of a basic bitch understanding of this, where they
would say, oh, well, Mark, liberation theology is all created and
run by Soviets, and we want to be there down in Latin and South
America with the right wing you know, death squads, and we want to
promote the church and traditionalism. It's a lot more complex than this because it
turns out that the Rockefeller Committee that studied liberation theology under Nelson, by the
way, so again because Nelson's the key point man Latin South America, Central
America, that they do a study of the effects of liberation theology for those
countries, and there were certain elements of liberation theology that they didn't like.
However, they were not opposed to it, precisely because liberation theology, according
to the Rockefeller Commission report, promoted family planning and abortion, so they liked
that aspect and that was one of the main reasons they didn't have a huge
problem with it. So it's a little more complex than the usual kind of
cold warrior dialectic that you read a lot of these right wing cold warrior people.
They just set it up as well. The Soviets pushed liberation theology and
we push the right wing stuff. Now it's more complex than that because a
lot of this ties into what's called Operation Condor, and that's adjacent to Gladio.
So Gladio had its Latin South America component, And if people don't know,
actually Pope Francis played a key role in that. Francis was one of
the key operators in in his jurisdiction for allowing the CIA to come and run
those kind of Cold War desquad operations. In his region. So uh,
it's it's a mistake I think for a lot of critics of Francis to say,
oh, he's a he's a globalist communist. Actually, no, he
didn't aid. He didn't aid Soviets. He aided the CIA and beyond that,
um, the papacy was not ultimately something co opted by Soviets. It
ended up co opted by one percent by the CIA and the Western power structure.
And that's part of the reason why Francis ended up as pope. Because
the Jesuits Jesus don't work for Moscow. There might have been Jesuits who were
co opted by the KGB or the KBED at some point that that did exist.
You do have elements in the World Council Churches, National Council of Churches,
which, by the way, it was created by the Rockfellers. Okay,
so that's a rock Feller created institution, and the Soviets did have some
agents there and they did recruit some people, for sure, But that does
not mean that the institutions, or what I call institutional capture that did not
occur by the KGB and by the Soviets. The institutional capture absolutely occurred via
the CIA, and so to understand the CIA's attitude towards Latin South America,
it's not about right and wrong. It's just about controlling those regions with the
best technology of ideology that works to control people. So they at that time
they thought we need to fight the Cold War with des squads, with Iran
Contra and in fact a lot of these characters. This blew me away.
I couldn't I didn't even know this. But these figures that we read about,
the Pinochetes and the Wompon, these figures, they were actually part of
Gladio and inducted into the P two lodge. So there's a famous story of
I think it's a Pinochet. Pinochet's inducted into P two by Lechio Jelly himself,
the famous Italian Sicilian organized crime figure given a papal knighthood as an atheist
by the way, he doesn't believe in God, but he's given a papal
knighthood much like Jimmy Saville was, because he played a key role as the
controller of the P two organization throughout Italy and even on NATO basis, by
the way, So this is really a I think Paul Williams theorizes that this
is basically a Kissinger operation. Kissinger was running P two through Leicio Jelly,
and so when Lechio goes down to he goes and inducts a Pinochet, he
inducts one perone and these these various figures. I think, I know it's
Pinochet. I want to say one, Piron two, but I'm not number.
So anyway, they're basically just serving Gladio. Is the point, So
that papal knighthood would be the royal Order or the Knights of Malta or something
like this, or I think that's something different. I think I'm going from
memory. Papal knighthood is just a sort of a special honorary privilege that the
pope gives to a specific figure. It doesn't necessarily have to be a Roman
Catholic. But the irony, of course is that this seems to be doled
out to very important geopolitical operators and people who are very nefarious. Okay,
it's not given on the basis of your virtue. And in fact, if
you watch Godfather three, I think there's a you know, we'd get there's
a scene where Michael Corleone is basically given this this Award, and you know,
if we want to an insight into the corruption, some people have pointed
out that, I mean, wouldn't we know the Vatican has its own kind
of intelligence apparatus. It's it's one of the oldest intelligence that as on the
on the planet. I mean, are we really supposed to think that they
didn't know who Jimmy Saville was, this guy hanging out with you know,
Prince Charles and engage in all these nefarious activities, for they had no idea
They're just gonna let him come hang out with John p All the second and
get a nighthead. No, it's because this this stuff is all run by
these uh, these orders, and you mentioned one of those orders. A
lot of these like the Sovereign Military Order of Malta and this kind of stuff.
That's all just the I stuff. Absolutely. Yeah. Jimmy Saville is
also an honorary member of the Knessen in Israel as well among his many accolades.
So he got around is quite extraordinary. A DJ from Leeds, he
didn't, you know, he really made the rounds. So so what you're
saying is, wherever you are in the world in terms of the CIA or
institutional capture. It doesn't. It's not necessarily it varies from region to region.
The methods that it's not strictly going to be predictable, you know,
along religious or ideological lines. It could change depending on the location, the
people, the culture. Absolutely this is ethnography, right, and so it's
kind of a weaponized anthropology. And the CIA is recruited over the years,
many many anthropologists, many even archaeologists. I mean, it sounds kind of
silly, but in in Indiana Jones, actually it turns out that Indiana Jones
as an archaeologist, he actually is in the OSS in the storyline. So
it's actually a nod to this in the Indiandiana Jones stories that they had originally.
When the predecessor to the OSS is the Inquiry. This is a bunch
of academics at the time of Woodrow Wilson, right when we get the you
know what Federal Reserve past, and the Inquiry is just a bunch of university
and academic people recruited into a kind of a private intelligence group. That is
kind of what evolves into the OSS eventually. Um and and a lot of
this is just bankers. It's it's not you know, uh it's not a
lot of sexy James Bond stuff. It's just boring bankers coming out with scams
and plots to uh do people and steal resources. That's that's the essence of
it. So it's a lot of organized crime. I think that when when
you know, I think I noticed first on your website many many years ago,
maybe twenty fifteen, you had you had an old essay of you know,
times that this CIA had linked and organized linked with organized crime. And
that was one of the first I'd never heard of that, and so that
that kind of kicked off me getting reading into organized crime as a side project
over the years. And that's where you really see this. This the rubber
meets the road with you know, intelligence operations. In many cases, particularly
with the CIA, it's just really just using organized crime networks, using drug
lanes. Uh. You know, this came up with ISIS and the you
know, you did some stuff about the pirates, pirate tiers and the return
of pirating with you know, these these ISIS cells and whatnot. It's all
that same stuff, right, It's just the old models of control that the
British Empire had with drug lanes and opium. Now see see, I just
basically takes over all that. And it's not accidental because it was the British
intelligence guys that came over and told you know, Donovan and everybody how to
set up their intelligence networks. So they're just gonna they're following basically the British
model. You see it with Brazinski to Brazinski, you know, heat says,
let's just use all the radical Muslims. That's an older British, British
approach. Yeah, the British very very good ethnography, um sectarian, tribal
history, affiliations. I mean incredibly, the granular detail of the academic studying
that underpins the you know, statecraft is mind boggling. And well, this
is where missionaries would play key roll too, right, because the missionary is
also a kind of a perhaps ethnographer, Right. He goes in and studies
and learns the language, learns everything, the idiosyncracies of the people, everything
about them to influence them as a form of soft power. There's an academic
that wrote a good book, we did, Analysis of Weaponizing Anthropology by David
Price, and I think towards the end of that book he mentions one of
the leaked documents US Army documents that came out the early mid two thousands about
Iraq, and that this Army document basically had just mastered the whole culture and
everything that you can think of about Iraq, and it was about how when
we're there to just completely totally change the culture. Right, So culture warfare
because a huge domain of CIA interests obviously, and obviously religion falls under the
domain of culture. Sure, but you know it goes beyond that into you
know, engineering pop culture, engineering toxic pop culture, which again also comes
up in a lot of CIA biographies, a lot of you know, academic
texts. Yeah, so just a lot of people don't know about this,
but but you know, it's very prevalent. It's it's one percent what the
CIA is involved in. Well, well, I think we're just scratching the
surface, of course on a lot of this stuff. And I know that
you've delved into some of this with your work as well. Before we go,
Jay, just give us give our listeners a shout out about your books
that they can get also your website and where they can see more of your
work. You can find me over Jason alysis dot com. For the archives
for the going back I mean six or seven years. We do a lot
of lectures through the Global Elite text and so you can find all that at
the website. There's a shop of the website too. You can get my
two Hollywood books working on Up Hollywood three, that's Stark Hollywood three, so
that hopefully that'll be out maybe the next six months to a year. I
got about one hundred pages of that ready to go. But we've got a
couple of philosophy books you can buy over there too, and you can find
me on rock fin YouTube, all those outlets you just under my name.
So thanks for having me great discussion. Religious engineering is an amazing, fascinating
topic, and we'll get links to you to your website as well, Jay's
Analysis. There'll be a link here on the show page so people can click
through and find all your stuff there as well. But thank you very much,
Jay Dyer, and good luck with your endeavors. We'll be watching your
work very closely going forward. Awesome, Thank you so much. There he
goes, ladies and gentlemen, that's Jay Dyer. Look, we're going to
take a break here with the Sunday Wire and when we come back, I
hope that you'll hang around after these men suggest for us, I've had enough
of working nine to five, when a job where I'm working to survive and
to myself, fucking tell no more lies. I've spent too much time in
the shadows. There's nowhere else to high. Yes to talk about time,
talk about time. All the roles are loved down in my life. Talk
about time, talk about time. Used to talk about talking about being.
Put your churchmens down, and let's talk about being, talk about being,
talk about being? Never game, what did you do it? Islaughing it
slaughing never? What did you beg he slaugh slaugh What if all the soldiers
laid down their guns? What if he exiled? Refused to run? What
about your shadows that face the sun? No, there's no more need,
there's normOn need to run. Used to talk about talk about time between walk
down. Now talk about time, talk about time. Yes, I talk
about peace, talk about joy. Comes down and let's talk about pas chuk
about peace, Chuk about pas chuk, about love? You give in a
slaughter in the slough to give it slough slaugh, No, it'slaugh slid slide
slid slid spark cads. What is your profession? See old friend, I
broke more SOLDI than you did. All right, ladies and gentlemen, Hey,
it was a great conversation with Jay, really fantastic. Really appreciate him
giving us his time this weekend. And Jenny's done something great work recently.
Of course, it's got a lot of interesting stuff. I think something for
Tucker Carlson Originals. He's playing a part in that as well as all.
The trailer looks great. So it's about the World Economic Forum basically, so
that will be circulating hopefully it'll make its way online at some point. But
fantastic, really great, and we will have a video of that conversation for
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lined up special for next week, so we'll you'll hear more about that,
I'm sure. And again I still haven't sent out that email with summary of
the winter fundraising drive. And also just to thank you, especially to our
subscribers, our members, and our donors as well. You guys have been
amazing. You've allows to do some amazing stuff and we're gonna keep doing it.
That's all we've got time for this week, ladies and gentlemen. So
that's it. That's the show, and got a big week coming up.
Tune into TNT Today's News Talk and also if you're in London, next Saturday,
Trafagar Square at twelve o'clock twelve pm Trafagar Square, there's an anti war
rally. I will be speaking on stage with Ambassador Peter Ford, Neil McCrae
who's been on this show before, and there's a few other speakers there still
tba to be announced, but that's Saturday, Trafagar Square, twelve pm.
So and so again an anti war rally. Stop the war, stopped the
proxy war in Ukraine, negotiate for peace asap. Stop the madness needs to
happen now, that's what it's about. So hopefully we'll see some of you
guys there, so do look out for that, Do look out for that.
Listen, take care of everybody. I hope you can have a great
week. I'll see you on TNT money to Friday as well and hopefully in
the week at the you can't call him one pm one pm one Friday as
well. All the best,