You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas.
I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now
trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other
victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway
murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with
Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher,
a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media
manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in
crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Over Murderer. I'm Kristin Dilly and
I'm Bill Thomas, and we're joined today by Joyce Call Canada, sister of
Keith Call, here to give us an update on the Colonial Parkway murder and
everything related to it. Joyce, thank you for joining us today. Very
welcome. Go ahead and remind our listeners a little bit of who you are,
and then tell us a little bit about yourself and the things that make
you. Yeah. Hi, I'm Joyce. I'm Keith Paul's older sister.
I live in Gloucester, Virginia, and I have for a long time.
I'm married and have two for babies. I'm a real estate agent and my
husband and I have a little business. My husband builds houses and I try
to sell them. So that's what we do. I think you're being modest.
You've had a lot of success in selling those houses. If I'm not
mistaken. The market's been good the last couple of years, really, so
yeah, as soon as before we build them, there's old but we're getting
ready to do another one this year. So we're just small, mom and
pop, but we like what we do and tell our listeners a little bit
about Keith. Yeah, Keith, Keith my younger brother, years younger than
me. He would have been fifty five in March. Yeah, I really
missed him a lot, but he was he was actually he had graduated high
school. He was in his first year of college. It was that when
this happened to him, he was coming up on the end of the first
semester he was going to school for computer science. So this was back in
nineteen eighty eight and he already had a love of the computer, so he
had one in his room. He had one of those great, big,
clunky Oh I don't even know, a doss or something like that. Bill,
I've heard you talk about it. Oh yeah, this is old school.
But he was very good with computers. He was. I can remember
going in his bedroom and he would say, hey, come look at this.
And he had some kind of contraption where he put the old type of
telephone, the handheld telephone receiver, and he put it into this contraption and
he was like, look, we can communicate it this way. And I
was like, what world. So I don't know, and he was probably
I think he was playing games and so forth. But yeah, he was
very interested in it way back. So I think he would have loved how
things have evolved. Oh yeah, career path even back then, I think
so too. I think he was doing one of the first dial up computer
systems where you would put the phone in the cradle and then send audio signals.
There was all this crackling and worrying, and there were certain sounds actually
those old computers made. I wasn't an expert, but I had friends like
Keith that were really crackerjack and I can't help but believe. Even though obviously
Kristin and I never met Keith, we feel like we know him a little
bit through you and your family. I think he would have loved all of
these developments in computer technology over the last thirty five years. Oh, I
really do too. I can almost bet on it. He probably have a
whole bunch of devices, probably not like just one phone, but many,
and probably a couple laptops. I'm just imagining that. I bet he would
have because he was It was funny thinking back. He would get all excited
just tell me here and look at this, and I'm like, Okay,
that really makes me happy. We also know that he was really into music,
because, for instance, we've seen a clip of him waiting with friends
to go see you Two, who are a relatively new band back then,
and he was waiting in line with friends to get contract tickets. As I
recall, Yeah he did. He loved loved you too, Pink Floyd,
Joshua Tree, all that good music, and yeah, I was actually talking
to Selena's sister. Selena was his girlfriend, longtime girlfriend her sister a couple
of days ago, and she was sharing a memory with me about him and
she said he was over our house one day. They were both over there
and he said, she said, he was so excited. She said,
it's when CD's first came out. And he came over and he had just
got this new CD player and he was telling them, y'all have to get
one of those. Look at the difference in the sound and shoes, laughing
about how excited he was about it. We just crossed a pretty sobering milestone
in Keith and Cassandra's case, and that is the thirty five year mark.
Did you ever think that you would reach three and a half decades in this
case with no answers? Never, in my wildest dreams did I think that
I did not know. I never thought anything like this, whatever even happened,
and then let alone, thirty five years out, still not know what
happened. I must say it's probably a good thing I did not know,
because it's something that you don't want to know when the forefront, that's for
sure, if you don't mind walk us through. Just liked the basics of
what happened to Keith and Sandy, what they were doing the night they went
missing, and just a little bit about what transpired the way that I've been
told is that they were friends from a class that they had in college.
They had a class together and they wouldcome friends. They decided to go out
on a date that night, a casual date from what I understand, and
Keith went to pick her up. I think they went to a movie first,
and then they decided to stop by the impromptu party that they were having
at University Square Parts apartments, which was across from the college that they both
went to. And from what I understand, there was not just one party
going on. It was the type that there were had parties going on in
different apartments, and it was like a place where the kids. It wasn't
like a formal party. They would go there and hang out. They would
know you didn't need an invitation. They would just oh, let's go.
And then they went from one apartment to the other. And that's the way
that it was explained to me. And that's where they went. And Keith
had picked up some beer before the evening had started. As I recall,
your brother said said, actually yeah, Chris, my brother, which is
younger than me but older than Keith, had actually got it for him.
I think Keith called him and he was going to borrow a jacket or some
piece of clothing from him, and then asking would he get him some beer.
I think the reason being because Keith wasn't a big drinker, but he
knew that they were going to go to college party or go there, and
that was just what you did. Just went ahead and some beer. And
remember this was nineteen eighty eight and it wasn't like it was now. And
that's the story, that's what Chris tells me. He just asks him and
he said, yeah, and you don't go into the party empty handed.
In other words, even if he wasn't going to drink a lot of beer,
you bring some beer with you as a contribution, housewarming present. That's
the type of parties I went to need too. Don't come empty handed.
And so then the University Square apartments party was the last place where Keith and
Sandra were seen at that point. What happened to Keith and Sandra after that,
that's the billion dollar question there. We do not know they were last
seen, and we've had different accounts of the time, varying from an hour
or two, and I don't know, we've plated because maybe somebody saw so
and time or Cassandra in one apartment and then maybe Cassandra had went to another
apartment. That's the only thing we can think of that sounds logical, but
it was I've heard bearing in accounts between twelve thirty and about quarter to two
something like that they were last seen and they left there, and that I
know of, nobody has ever seen them since they walked out those doors.
I was just going to say the car was found in the wee hours of
the morning on the Colonial Parkway, but no sign and they were trying to
meet a curfew. As we understand it, that Keith had said to Sandy's
parents who would have her home by two am or something like that. That
is correct. Yes, the Colonial Parkway spot where Keith's Toyota Selica is found
is not on the way home from the University Square apartments to Sandy's parents' house
in the Grafton area. No much out of the way. It's quite a
bit out of the way, fifteen twenty minutes out of the way. There's
no reason for them to go there. I know they didn't go there.
So in your view, then the car is placed there perhaps, But you
don't think that Keith and Sandy would have ended up on the Colonial Parkway for
the reasons you've outlined. No, I don't think so, not at all.
I don't think so. She had a curfew, and Keith would have
taken her home somewhere around that curfew, and Keith nor Sandy hung around,
spent a lot of time on the parkway. And from what I understand from
Cassandra's sisters is that Sandy did not even like going to the Parkway. It
was just really out of the way. There was no reason for them to
be there at that time one morning, on that dark place, at that
particular overlook. There's just no reason whatsoever. We've heard the theories from law
enforcement that maybe they went swimming, maybe they drowned. That bluff is just
so high over the James River. It was an April morning. It's way
too cold to swim. I've never bought it. I don't think your family
or any of the other survivor's family has bought that either. No, never
for a minute. Never for a minute. There's no way. In fact,
it was it was cold that night. It was I believe the temperatures
were in the forties that night. Just this past weekend in April. We
were out there. It was windy and chilly. The sun was out,
but it was cold. Nobody in their right mind is going to go down
there, and if they were ever going to, there's plenty of other places
where you can just walk out to the beach, not go down an embankment
that's thirty feet. Heath would have driven across the York River on the Coleman
Bridge more than likely to get home to your parents' home in Gloucester. Correct
that it is correct, So that would mean that he would leave Sandra's house
and get right back on Rouph seventeen or J. Clyde Morris Boulevard, wherever
you want to call it, George Washington Memorial. Haveway goes by all those
names, but it's Route seventeen and it goes all the way from a New
for News and then it'll go follow across the bridge into Gloucester, just one
straight shot, no turns, no turns until he would have turned off on
my parents road. And there's no reason for him to have gone onto the
parkway once he was on seventeen. I've driven that a number of times.
There's no reason to get off there that the wall. We've heard is that
Keith and his longtime girlfriend, Selena, whom you mentioned a moment ago,
were on a bit of a hiatus. They had sort of separated, if
you will, and they were a very close couple throughout the latter part of
high school. Correct, that's right, they had taken a break. They
seemed fairly mature to me for it, as young as they were. But
I think back to my maturity level at that age, and she was in
college and she was I think in her second year and he was in his
first. I believe that they had just taken like a two week break and
had decided that they were going to continue on with their relationship. That is
from me. I do still keep in touch with Selena, and like I
was saying, I just talked to her sister the other day. So people
we've talked to who were at the college party at the Christopher Newport University apartments
University Square apartments, which are no longer there, they've told us that Heath
and Sane he didn't seem to spend a lot of time together that evening.
They were in separate social groups at the party, and that Keith was in
the kitchen for a good portion of time singing the blues about how much he
missed Selena to one of her friends. So it didn't sound like any kind
of big breakup between Keith and Selena. It actually sounded like they were going
to get back together exactly. Yeah, they were, and that's what she
had said too, And he was talking to his friend on each wol friend
of both theirs in the kitchen for hours that night. Keith and Cassandra were
at the party together, but they weren't together as a couple at them And
I kind of remember doing that when I was young too. It's just okay,
let's go together, but we're not together at this point. Now that
we've caught up a little bit on the case, I want to make sure
we talk about some of the issues that come up every time you guys cross
an anniversary, and I want to make sure we talk about some of the
good things that are coming up here with an upcoming monument. So I guess
my first question is what do you and your family do when it's time to
mark an anniversary. Do you have any rituals? Do you go to a
specific place? Do you have a beer for Keith? Like? What do
you guys do to mark his memory on these weekends and years passed earlier in
the years, sometimes we would go to the Parkway, but we haven't done
that in a long time, and actually don't really like to go there to
do that. So usually we'll just say a prayer and we don't have any
place to go. We've never had really any place to go that. The
main thing that we do is just amongst ourselves, tell ourselves and tell Keith
and prayers that we are still fighting for you and we're trying our best to
find out what happened. It's my understanding that Keith didn't have a funeral or
a memorial service, and I can understand that when there is no body to
find that would I can understand that. Was there any other reasoning behind that
or not having a service for him, No, there was never really any
other reason. I think the first few years, even when my dad was
still alive and taking care of everything, it was still like so fresh and
we were trying it's okay. It was every years, we're going to find
something out, something's going to happen, or we would get our hopes up.
We're going to have a resolution to this somehow, somehow, and every
year that's just carried us over, carried us over, and we're not giving
up by any means now still. But the thing is, as y'all probably
are well aware of, as the years go by and we all get older,
I don't want to leave this earth and there not be anything mark of
his existence here on earth. And my brothers and I have talked about that
in years pain the last seven or eight years, as we should probably do
something. We should probably do something, but we hadn't yet. But now
I just feel like it's time. It's time, it's time, and I
feel good about it. It's time to do it. So yeah, go
ahead and talk to us a little bit about this monument that is going to
be placed for Keith a little bit later this year. How did that come
about? And which company is actually doing the work on that? We'd love
to sing their praises. This is how it actually started. Like I said,
we had thought about it on and off for years. This time last
year, probably out of the glue, I get a phone call. It
was probably a voicemail, and I call this fellow back and his name is
Ed Taylor and he is with the Cumberland Historic Cemetery organization and that is in
Cumberland, Maryland, and he says that every year his organization donates a certain
amount of monuments for stones to families for different reasons. It can be different
reasons. It can be somebody whose family member has been gone for a long,
long longer than Keith and they never had a proper ary or stones,
or it can be there's a wide range. But what it was is he
had traveled this area quite a bit in the early two thousands and he got
familiar with our cases, and so he used to follow our cases and he
so told us when they were talking about who they wanted to donate to.
As they were talking about it last year, he brought up our cases with
the board of directors for his organization and they all seem very interested. So
he called me to ask if my family and I would be interested before he
went any further. And I was like, let me ask them, But
I think so because we had been thinking about it. Fast forward after I
talked to my brothers about it and they said yes, and we started talking
in summer of last year. So we decided to do it and they have
graciously along with Rosewell was where my parents are buried up Tomberland Historic Cemetery Organization.
Yeah, the monument, And I don't know. Do you want me
to tell you what they put on it? What they're putting on it?
Yeah? We wait, No, absolutely tell us this is what's going to
be on it. It's going to have a ceramic tile of Keith, a
picture of Keith. And I know y'all and your audience can't see that.
You will show it to you right there. It's going to go right there,
and it has his name and it has his birthday, and then it
says last scene Alive April tenth, nineteen eighty eight. Son of Richard and
Barbara call. He had a kind, loving and empathetic nature. He loved
his family and friends and had so much value in his family and world.
Keith's life was tragically stolen from him when he stopped at a cottage get a
college get together with Cassandra Haley last scene at University Square Apartments, Newport News.
His car was abandoned on the Colonial Parkway. Their clothes were found in
the car. No remains have been found as of twenty twenty three, when
this monument was unveiled by Cumberland Historic cemetery, the search continues, May God
have mercy on his soul and all souls, and then it leaves the space
on there just in case we ever do find any remains, we can put
a date on there. So that's what's going to be on the monument.
We have had a limited space and so we had to condense it down.
I wanted to make sure Cassandra's name was on there too, so that's what
we're going to put on my parent's grave. I think it's beautiful. Both
of your folks are gone now, and you were telling us that this is
a unique situation because Heath technically and Sandy are both missing persons. We don't
know with one hundred percent assuredness that they're gone, but it's been thirty five
years, so the chances are they've passed on. But it's a unique situation
in that here we are now putting a beautiful marker at the Roseville Cemetery,
but with no remains. Right. It actually sounded like there was some significant
discussion behind the scenes between the Cumberland Historic Cemetery Group and the Roseville Cemetery about
we've kind of never done this before, but everybody came together including your family,
to show support for this idea. Yes, there had to be an
agreement between Rosewell, which is hog you know home they owned Rosewell Memorial Gardens
where my parents are buried, and Cumberland. So Rosewell is going to install
the granite that goes underneath where the monument's going to sit. Cumberland is going
to bring down the monument. And so they did come to agreement and they
said that they would be glad to help us. So I was glad for
that. So everybody did. So a lot of it was just we had
to go through red tape on both because there was two sets of boarder directors
and you know how that's but everybody came together. It's so wonderful that Roswell
agreed to allow this to happen, because I guess they could have said no.
They could have said no if they really could have. We were really
hoping not because I guess basically, it's like Rosewell has been in this community
for a long time, and I know that the owners of that place have
been around for a long time, and so they're familiar with a lot of
people in this community, and so we knew that they were familiar with all
of the Colonial Parkway cases, so we were really hoping that they wanted to
support the community, which they did. I know it is highly unusual,
but it's not going to be taking up any of the other space. It's
going to be right there with my parents, which is I think that if
they know anything, if they can never see anything, that they would be
happy. Oh I think so, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, you're
listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our
sponsors. We're back here at Mind over Murder. And just because I'm sure
that we're going to have people who ask why is there no monument on the
Colonial Parkway? Either of you can of you? I'm getting when eye rolls
from both Joyce and Bill, please note, can either of you or both
of you speak to why there will not be a Colonial Parkway marker or monument
on the parkway? Joyce, would you like to take that or would you
like me to i'ud like you to take that, respectfully. The National Park
Service has never shown us an ounce of support, even some years back when
the call in Haley Families had made arrangements to bring in cadaver dogs to search
some likely spots where remains might be found. Joyce can tell you more because
she was there and lived it along with the members of the Haley family.
We got nothing but resistance from the National Park Service since the very beginning.
In my opinion, they've wanted nothing to do with the Colonial Parkway murders.
I know they don't even like the name the Colonial Parkway Murders, which isn't
something we made up. The media came up with this name. So I
don't think the National Park Service would ever allow anything that would indicate that such
a sad thing had happened along the Colonial Parkway. Maybe someday, it's funny.
They've got historic markers all over the place. They'll show you where all
of the old sites were, and some of the important plantations and other homes
and other places where significant events took place. But heaven forbid they'd ever acknowledge
the fact that something sad happened out there, and by the way, assuming
for a moment that the Keith and Sandy were also taken from us, there
have been multiple murders on the Colonial Parkway. Ours are not even the only
violent crimes that have taken place along the Colonial Parkway, and they want nothing
to do with any of this. Yeah, we've talked about the Audrey gene
Weiler case before. That is certainly, and that was a year before Kathy
and Becky. So no, these are not the only violent crimes that have
taken place in the Parkway. But yeah, absolutely, I'm sure that the
NPS would throw up their hands and flee screaming into the night if you ever
mentioned the idea of let's memorialize this somehow. Even when the Colin Haley families
were searching with the cadaver dogs, they seem to be more concerned day.
The National Park Service seemed to be more concerned that a blade of grass would
be disturbed by a passing dog than we'd advance this investigation of these unsolved murders
and missing people. Ironically, the cadaver dogs did hit on something that day,
and there were remains found along the Colonial Parkway. But understand that these
are historic sites and people have been buried there any number of times, so
there are unmarked graves all the way back to colonial times and even before.
Things like that can and do happen, but the National Park Service doesn't want
to do anything to mark the locations where any of these sad events might have
taken place. It's a shame. Joyce. You and I had a I
think a fairly fun and productive conversation the other night about what ultimately we would
like to do once this monument is being placed. We'd like to honor Keith
and Sandra and all the victims in some way. So can you talk a
little bit about what kind of event you would like to see that's going to
honor the opening of the monument and also all of the cases. We know
that we're going to be holding this in October, which is right around the
time that the remaining three sets of Parkway cases will have their anniversary. In
addition to the timeframe, tell us about what you'd like to see. What
would you like to do. I think it's good that it's fall and where
we've decided to have that in October is a really good date to keep it
out there for all of the victims' families. I really do that part of
it. So we want to honor Keith because we just feel like in our
hearts that we need to do that for our family. And like I think,
I don't know who I was telling you were Bill that before y'all and
I were talking about this the other day that in our minds at first,
when we thought about having a memorial service for Keith, we thought it was
going to We've going to just do a small family affair. We probably still
will, but we have an opportunity at this point to represent for all the
families and to bring awareness to these cases. So we're going to have the
memorial for Keith, but we also are going to invite some politicians we want
to have keep pressure on the FBI and the state Police to get these paces
solved. We would love to put some pressure on the FBI to get them
to share work with off room labs. I know Bill talks about that a
lot, and I'm right on board with that, right on board with that.
The cases that they are solving, there's no reason why they can't solve
at least one of ours, at least one of them. We want to
keep the awareness, keep the pressure on, celebrate some lives. Well,
talk about you'd mentioned wanting to see some politicians there. Who would you who's
on your ultimate guest list. We have talked about so far, inviting her
North Win, some Seers, which is the Lieutenant Governor Jason mais is that
am I saying that correctly? Mires? I think is how you say it.
And he's the Attorney general. And then some of our local bits.
And I know when you and I were talking the other night, Christian,
y'all were talking about winning Bobby Scott. Maybe we are going to be getting
together a media package and start sending out so by Aunt lu call Off.
Y'all know who she is, and she is going to be helping with that
as well. And we've had invitations from a couple of the local news media
reporters that they have some they can help us get in touch with some of
the politicians. So we are going to take them up on that. And
you had stories that just ran a couple of days ago now on both wav
Y and WTKR, two of the big television stations in the area. How
did those come together? Oh, they did very well. They reached out
to us. And when I was talking to Kelsey Smith WTKRS is who did
an interview for Channel three, and she was all on board and she said,
please keep me posted. I want to follow this and she says,
and by the way, I want to let you know that one of the
reporters who has done several stories from WTKR Brandon Ponton. He talks with Bill
quite a bit. She tells me, Yes, he's a wonderful young guy.
Yeah. She says that he actually does a lot of the interviews with
politician. He has some very good connections and we should reach out to him
too. She said, do you still have his number? If not,
I will give it to you. I do so. She was very helpful
and enthusiastic, and they do want to follow and be involved. And Wavy
with Andy, Wavy with Andy Fox, and he was on board. And
he also told me he instructed me actually he said this is this is what
you do. So we will be reaching back out to Andy too. And
Andy Fox is one of the reporters who has covered this case from the very
first event, and he's been so committed to the Colonial Parkray murders and so
helpful to the families. Gotcha, I know he's very passionate and committed and
feels very close to your family and all of the families. Yes, he's
been there, just like you said, from the very beginning. And there
are times that even if it's not on the news or anything, if it's
coming up on some kind of anniversary date. He will call me or text
to me and he will say I'm thinking about you and your family just out
of the look. That's so kind and it means a lot. It means
a lot that we're just just not a news case for him, that he
does care. When we did the Lover's Lane murder series on Oxygen, one
of the things that made me smile was seeing a very young Andy Fox as
a reporter with a big swatch of dark hair, and then to see him
now, he's still a very handsome guy in all that, but he has
gone white. To look at those two different pictures, a young reporter and
now a veteran reporter, it really served to remind you of the passage of
time way back in Keith and Sandy went missing to the present day, and
to look at this reporter talking about the case, you were like, wow,
it really has been three decades. Bill. I do have a question
for you. I'm going to turn the tables here a second. Do you
see having a monument as something that you would like to do Kathy. I
know Kathy was cremated and her ashes spread at sea, so you don't really
have a place you can go either. Is this something that you'd want to
see done for Kathy and Becky? You know, I want to talk to
my brothers about it. I know one of the things that Ed Taylor has
mentioned is that they might want to do something for Sandy and her family because
we talk about these couples as couples, and the truth is, when you
actually get into the details of it, Keith and Sandy were friends from school,
but weren't a serious couple. They were out on a first date that
night. And so Sandy isn't from Gloucester, she's from the Grafton area.
Her family members, if any, would be probably memorialized in a different place.
But interestingly, Ed Taylor said that he wanted to talk to the Haley
family about perhaps doing something maybe next year to memorialize Sandy, because we're not
trying to minimize their loss. I thought what the Cumberland folks did was lovely
and thoughtful. When you talk to me about this, Choyce, I was
like, Wow, these people aren't even from Virginia, They're from Maryland.
Mister Taylor's been following this case for so many years, and what a lovely
gesture. And I think it's something that might make a lot of sense for
Sandy. As far as the Thomases go, I'd really have to maybe sit
with my brothers and talk to them about it. Kathy was cremated and her
ashes were scattered off a US Navy ship off Norfolk, and we have videotape
of the ceremony. Weirdly, only my father was permitted to attend. I
don't even remember how all that happened, and I'm not one hundred percent sure
that was necessarily the right way to go. But you're just doing the best
you can, as Joyce can tell you, you just trying to support your
parents and get through the most difficult time you've ever had in your entire life.
There are things about the steps that we took that I'm not sure are
necessarily the best, but it's done, so I guess we'd have to think
about if you're going to do something to mark my sister Kathy's passing, where
would you put it. Once again, speaking frankly, the United States Naval
Academy wanted nothing to do with my sister's murder. And there's a story that
needs to be told someday about just how far the Naval Academy took their efforts
to create distance between themselves and what they saw is a scandalous murder of an
honors an APPLIS graduate being murdered with their girlfriend it. I guess we'd have
to think long and hard about is this something we would like and where would
we put that in? How could we do that in a way that was
the most appropriate and heartfelt way to recognize losing someone like this. Even just
the physical location of it is no specific place that makes complete sense. Both
my parents are gone now and they were both cremated and their ashes were scattered,
so it's not like there's a family plot like in the Call family example.
I was talking to Joyce about this a few weeks ago, and I
actually went online and looked at the Rosewell Cemetery, which is absolutely beautiful,
and I looked up the Calls, and of course there's a photograph of their
marker. When Joyce and her brother Doug did the interviews, which were so
well done, you were standing there at the family plot. So to start
bringing this toor to clothes, I do want to ask again both of you,
because you are both the family members of victims, what do you think
right now? April twelfth, twenty twenty three. Is the biggest stumbling block
to this case being solved? Jerce, I'll start with you and then let
Bill follow up. What is the biggest stumbling block to this case being solved?
I think not enough communication. We don't know what is going on.
They feed us tidbits and a lot of it. We have to find out
on our own piece it together, and that's been difficult through the years.
Also, I really and truly I am right on board with Bill in having
our DNA with a lab or a lab that can test degraded DNA. At
this point, that's what our case has. From what I've been told,
our cases are solvable with the DNA. What do we have to lose at
this point, We don't have a darn thing to lose. We have everything
to gain. So that's what I want to see. And I'm speaking from
my whole family at this point, they are all on board. It's been
so many years now I don't even understand, and this is my limited I'm
not in the service, I'm not in law enforcement. I'm just a family
member with a brother missing. I don't understand how after all these years that
they have to be so damn secretive. Tell us something, tell us something,
you don't have to shout it to the rooftops. Let us know what's
going on before we all die off. Is that what you want? Good
question? Good question. As for me, I agree with everything Joyce just
said. It pains me to say this, but I think our biggest roadblock
to success and experts have told us that this is a solvable case. The
Colonial Parkway murders can be solved, but we need time, attention, and
resources from the Virginia State Police and especially the FBI, the foot dragging and
the bureaucracy. And you're the lowest possible priority because you're a cold case.
Policies, particularly of the FBI are infuriating. They are the reason these cases
are not being solved. When we have evidence being sent out from Keith's Toyota
Celica and it takes over a year to get results, and this is a
batch of evidence is sent in tested. We understand sometimes there are going to
be some strikeouts. We get that we're talking about cases that are thirty five
plus years old. But to be told, it'll take some time to get
results, and those results on just that round of testing take a year.
That's not acceptable, and I have told the FBI this in no uncertain terms.
The FBI Quantico lab is stacked up. It's too small to do the
job that it's being asked to do. The private labs that Joyce has mentioned,
Othram Body and others are available. We will work with these agencies to
raise funds to cover the costs. The Call and Haley families in particular have
been very successful at raising funds. I am confident with the support that we've
been shown through the Mind Over Murder audience, our Facebook pages, social media,
and the thousands of people that have reached out to us and said what
can I do to help these families that we could work out ways to raise
funds to cover costs. But for the FBI to say to me, oh,
we can't accept gifts of that type, it's not a gift. We're
trying to solve our loved ones murders and missing persons cases. We need to
get some higher level of cooperation and as Joyce said, more information flow.
It doesn't have to be public. It's infuriating to just feel like you're constantly
being pushed away and back from your own loved ones. Murder or missing person's
case. We've lost more than half the parents. Now, if there are
eight victims, we have sixteen moms and dads. Or the eight victims in
the Colonial Parkway murders, we've lost more than half. Now nine of those
parents have died waiting for answers in the Colonial Parkway murders. It's infuriating to
have this drag on this way. I second that you both have already indicated
that you want your final, your concrete step. The next thing should be,
let's put Authorum's considerable resources to the attention of this case. Is there
anything else that you'd like to see happen, like in the next year that
would help move this case forward other than Offram. One other thing I'll add.
After hearing of all of the pushback that we were getting regarding expenses in
this case, the folks from Athram came back to me and said we'll do
the testing at no charge. And I thank them. And at first I
misunderstood them. I thought they were talking about Kathy and Becky's case, which
is only one of the four incidents in the Colonial Parkway murders. And then
talking to Kristin and David middleman. Who are the two brilliant PhDs that run
that lab down in Texas. Kristen made it clear to me no, she
said, no, you're misunderstanding. All of the Colonial Parkway murders. They
have offered to test any evidence we have from any of these four incidents in
the Colonial Parkway murders at no charge. So at this point, just like
Joyce said, what's the hold up here, they have offered to test everything
for free because they know how dedicated these families have been to seeking answers.
I think we're running out of excuses here. And when I say we the
FBI and the Virginia State Police enough already, Like Joyce said, what are
we going to do? Wait till the families die off completely? These are
solvable cases. They're considered evidence rich. If we put the time, attention,
and resources into these cases, they can be solved. Let's work together
to do that. That was the best place I can think of to end
this, Joyce. Over the next couple of months, we will be giving
out information with regard to this service that we're going to do for Keith.
Is that going to be for public consumption or is that meant to be a
private family thing. In other words, if we have supporters who would like
to come show their support for your family, could they do. They're very
welcome. Yes, yes, we especially encourage any of Keith and Sanders old
close friends. We would love to hear some stories to make us last.
That would be wonderful. Yeah, no, they're definitely welcome. We will
keep everybody posted and thank you. That's going to do it for this episode
of mind Over Murder. As we have additional information about all of the Vince
and the memorials, we will start putting that up on our social media.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of mind Over Murder. We'll
see you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and
Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our
logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin mcleoud.
Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. You can follow
us on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram. You can also follow our page on
the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, you can hello Bill Thomas
on Twitter at Bill Thomas five. Six Thank you for listening to Mind Over Murder.