1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,760 murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 6 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:29,120 Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher, 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,840 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,880 manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:50,520 crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Over Murderer. I'm Kristin Dilly and 10 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:56,359 I'm Bill Thomas, and we're joined today by Joyce Call Canada, sister of 11 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,719 Keith Call, here to give us an update on the Colonial Parkway murder and 12 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,280 everything related to it. Joyce, thank you for joining us today. Very 13 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:08,680 welcome. Go ahead and remind our listeners a little bit of who you are, 14 00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:12,120 and then tell us a little bit about yourself and the things that make 15 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,560 you. Yeah. Hi, I'm Joyce. I'm Keith Paul's older sister. 16 00:01:18,519 --> 00:01:21,280 I live in Gloucester, Virginia, and I have for a long time. 17 00:01:21,439 --> 00:01:26,159 I'm married and have two for babies. I'm a real estate agent and my 18 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,719 husband and I have a little business. My husband builds houses and I try 19 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:36,000 to sell them. So that's what we do. I think you're being modest. 20 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,239 You've had a lot of success in selling those houses. If I'm not 21 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:44,599 mistaken. The market's been good the last couple of years, really, so 22 00:01:45,239 --> 00:01:48,480 yeah, as soon as before we build them, there's old but we're getting 23 00:01:48,519 --> 00:01:52,000 ready to do another one this year. So we're just small, mom and 24 00:01:52,079 --> 00:01:56,200 pop, but we like what we do and tell our listeners a little bit 25 00:01:56,239 --> 00:02:00,000 about Keith. Yeah, Keith, Keith my younger brother, years younger than 26 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:06,840 me. He would have been fifty five in March. Yeah, I really 27 00:02:06,879 --> 00:02:10,639 missed him a lot, but he was he was actually he had graduated high 28 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:15,879 school. He was in his first year of college. It was that when 29 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,000 this happened to him, he was coming up on the end of the first 30 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:23,240 semester he was going to school for computer science. So this was back in 31 00:02:23,319 --> 00:02:29,080 nineteen eighty eight and he already had a love of the computer, so he 32 00:02:29,159 --> 00:02:30,400 had one in his room. He had one of those great, big, 33 00:02:30,479 --> 00:02:35,800 clunky Oh I don't even know, a doss or something like that. Bill, 34 00:02:35,879 --> 00:02:38,120 I've heard you talk about it. Oh yeah, this is old school. 35 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:43,280 But he was very good with computers. He was. I can remember 36 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,400 going in his bedroom and he would say, hey, come look at this. 37 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,000 And he had some kind of contraption where he put the old type of 38 00:02:51,039 --> 00:02:54,719 telephone, the handheld telephone receiver, and he put it into this contraption and 39 00:02:54,759 --> 00:02:59,199 he was like, look, we can communicate it this way. And I 40 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:04,520 was like, what world. So I don't know, and he was probably 41 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,599 I think he was playing games and so forth. But yeah, he was 42 00:03:07,719 --> 00:03:10,080 very interested in it way back. So I think he would have loved how 43 00:03:10,159 --> 00:03:16,039 things have evolved. Oh yeah, career path even back then, I think 44 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:21,000 so too. I think he was doing one of the first dial up computer 45 00:03:21,159 --> 00:03:24,879 systems where you would put the phone in the cradle and then send audio signals. 46 00:03:24,879 --> 00:03:30,199 There was all this crackling and worrying, and there were certain sounds actually 47 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,520 those old computers made. I wasn't an expert, but I had friends like 48 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,680 Keith that were really crackerjack and I can't help but believe. Even though obviously 49 00:03:38,759 --> 00:03:42,639 Kristin and I never met Keith, we feel like we know him a little 50 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,919 bit through you and your family. I think he would have loved all of 51 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:52,039 these developments in computer technology over the last thirty five years. Oh, I 52 00:03:52,159 --> 00:03:54,759 really do too. I can almost bet on it. He probably have a 53 00:03:54,759 --> 00:03:59,280 whole bunch of devices, probably not like just one phone, but many, 54 00:03:59,319 --> 00:04:02,360 and probably a couple laptops. I'm just imagining that. I bet he would 55 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,879 have because he was It was funny thinking back. He would get all excited 56 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,400 just tell me here and look at this, and I'm like, Okay, 57 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:15,439 that really makes me happy. We also know that he was really into music, 58 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,519 because, for instance, we've seen a clip of him waiting with friends 59 00:04:19,759 --> 00:04:24,600 to go see you Two, who are a relatively new band back then, 60 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:29,839 and he was waiting in line with friends to get contract tickets. As I 61 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,680 recall, Yeah he did. He loved loved you too, Pink Floyd, 62 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:40,800 Joshua Tree, all that good music, and yeah, I was actually talking 63 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:46,879 to Selena's sister. Selena was his girlfriend, longtime girlfriend her sister a couple 64 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:50,040 of days ago, and she was sharing a memory with me about him and 65 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,240 she said he was over our house one day. They were both over there 66 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,480 and he said, she said, he was so excited. She said, 67 00:04:58,639 --> 00:05:01,560 it's when CD's first came out. And he came over and he had just 68 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,040 got this new CD player and he was telling them, y'all have to get 69 00:05:05,079 --> 00:05:10,879 one of those. Look at the difference in the sound and shoes, laughing 70 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:16,399 about how excited he was about it. We just crossed a pretty sobering milestone 71 00:05:16,639 --> 00:05:21,920 in Keith and Cassandra's case, and that is the thirty five year mark. 72 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,399 Did you ever think that you would reach three and a half decades in this 73 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,600 case with no answers? Never, in my wildest dreams did I think that 74 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:38,439 I did not know. I never thought anything like this, whatever even happened, 75 00:05:38,519 --> 00:05:42,959 and then let alone, thirty five years out, still not know what 76 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,319 happened. I must say it's probably a good thing I did not know, 77 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,079 because it's something that you don't want to know when the forefront, that's for 78 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:56,319 sure, if you don't mind walk us through. Just liked the basics of 79 00:05:56,439 --> 00:06:00,800 what happened to Keith and Sandy, what they were doing the night they went 80 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:05,759 missing, and just a little bit about what transpired the way that I've been 81 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:11,240 told is that they were friends from a class that they had in college. 82 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,519 They had a class together and they wouldcome friends. They decided to go out 83 00:06:15,639 --> 00:06:18,959 on a date that night, a casual date from what I understand, and 84 00:06:19,319 --> 00:06:24,600 Keith went to pick her up. I think they went to a movie first, 85 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,959 and then they decided to stop by the impromptu party that they were having 86 00:06:29,959 --> 00:06:33,480 at University Square Parts apartments, which was across from the college that they both 87 00:06:33,519 --> 00:06:38,759 went to. And from what I understand, there was not just one party 88 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,040 going on. It was the type that there were had parties going on in 89 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,720 different apartments, and it was like a place where the kids. It wasn't 90 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,800 like a formal party. They would go there and hang out. They would 91 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,439 know you didn't need an invitation. They would just oh, let's go. 92 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,759 And then they went from one apartment to the other. And that's the way 93 00:06:56,759 --> 00:07:00,680 that it was explained to me. And that's where they went. And Keith 94 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,879 had picked up some beer before the evening had started. As I recall, 95 00:07:04,519 --> 00:07:09,720 your brother said said, actually yeah, Chris, my brother, which is 96 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,279 younger than me but older than Keith, had actually got it for him. 97 00:07:14,759 --> 00:07:18,800 I think Keith called him and he was going to borrow a jacket or some 98 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:24,480 piece of clothing from him, and then asking would he get him some beer. 99 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,519 I think the reason being because Keith wasn't a big drinker, but he 100 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,600 knew that they were going to go to college party or go there, and 101 00:07:31,639 --> 00:07:35,319 that was just what you did. Just went ahead and some beer. And 102 00:07:36,199 --> 00:07:40,839 remember this was nineteen eighty eight and it wasn't like it was now. And 103 00:07:41,319 --> 00:07:44,720 that's the story, that's what Chris tells me. He just asks him and 104 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,600 he said, yeah, and you don't go into the party empty handed. 105 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,279 In other words, even if he wasn't going to drink a lot of beer, 106 00:07:50,319 --> 00:07:57,279 you bring some beer with you as a contribution, housewarming present. That's 107 00:07:57,319 --> 00:08:01,279 the type of parties I went to need too. Don't come empty handed. 108 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,160 And so then the University Square apartments party was the last place where Keith and 109 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:13,040 Sandra were seen at that point. What happened to Keith and Sandra after that, 110 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:18,319 that's the billion dollar question there. We do not know they were last 111 00:08:18,319 --> 00:08:22,639 seen, and we've had different accounts of the time, varying from an hour 112 00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:26,600 or two, and I don't know, we've plated because maybe somebody saw so 113 00:08:26,839 --> 00:08:31,799 and time or Cassandra in one apartment and then maybe Cassandra had went to another 114 00:08:31,919 --> 00:08:35,000 apartment. That's the only thing we can think of that sounds logical, but 115 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:41,440 it was I've heard bearing in accounts between twelve thirty and about quarter to two 116 00:08:41,639 --> 00:08:46,000 something like that they were last seen and they left there, and that I 117 00:08:46,159 --> 00:08:52,480 know of, nobody has ever seen them since they walked out those doors. 118 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:56,200 I was just going to say the car was found in the wee hours of 119 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:01,279 the morning on the Colonial Parkway, but no sign and they were trying to 120 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:07,279 meet a curfew. As we understand it, that Keith had said to Sandy's 121 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,399 parents who would have her home by two am or something like that. That 122 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:18,799 is correct. Yes, the Colonial Parkway spot where Keith's Toyota Selica is found 123 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:26,200 is not on the way home from the University Square apartments to Sandy's parents' house 124 00:09:26,279 --> 00:09:30,360 in the Grafton area. No much out of the way. It's quite a 125 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,759 bit out of the way, fifteen twenty minutes out of the way. There's 126 00:09:33,799 --> 00:09:37,080 no reason for them to go there. I know they didn't go there. 127 00:09:37,759 --> 00:09:41,519 So in your view, then the car is placed there perhaps, But you 128 00:09:41,639 --> 00:09:46,480 don't think that Keith and Sandy would have ended up on the Colonial Parkway for 129 00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:50,399 the reasons you've outlined. No, I don't think so, not at all. 130 00:09:50,039 --> 00:09:54,720 I don't think so. She had a curfew, and Keith would have 131 00:09:54,759 --> 00:10:00,639 taken her home somewhere around that curfew, and Keith nor Sandy hung around, 132 00:10:00,799 --> 00:10:03,480 spent a lot of time on the parkway. And from what I understand from 133 00:10:03,919 --> 00:10:11,039 Cassandra's sisters is that Sandy did not even like going to the Parkway. It 134 00:10:11,159 --> 00:10:13,840 was just really out of the way. There was no reason for them to 135 00:10:13,879 --> 00:10:16,879 be there at that time one morning, on that dark place, at that 136 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:22,159 particular overlook. There's just no reason whatsoever. We've heard the theories from law 137 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,559 enforcement that maybe they went swimming, maybe they drowned. That bluff is just 138 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,000 so high over the James River. It was an April morning. It's way 139 00:10:31,039 --> 00:10:35,279 too cold to swim. I've never bought it. I don't think your family 140 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,960 or any of the other survivor's family has bought that either. No, never 141 00:10:39,039 --> 00:10:43,799 for a minute. Never for a minute. There's no way. In fact, 142 00:10:43,159 --> 00:10:46,679 it was it was cold that night. It was I believe the temperatures 143 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:52,080 were in the forties that night. Just this past weekend in April. We 144 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,440 were out there. It was windy and chilly. The sun was out, 145 00:10:54,639 --> 00:10:58,240 but it was cold. Nobody in their right mind is going to go down 146 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,679 there, and if they were ever going to, there's plenty of other places 147 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,840 where you can just walk out to the beach, not go down an embankment 148 00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:13,559 that's thirty feet. Heath would have driven across the York River on the Coleman 149 00:11:13,639 --> 00:11:18,519 Bridge more than likely to get home to your parents' home in Gloucester. Correct 150 00:11:18,639 --> 00:11:24,240 that it is correct, So that would mean that he would leave Sandra's house 151 00:11:24,279 --> 00:11:28,440 and get right back on Rouph seventeen or J. Clyde Morris Boulevard, wherever 152 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:33,360 you want to call it, George Washington Memorial. Haveway goes by all those 153 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,919 names, but it's Route seventeen and it goes all the way from a New 154 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:43,600 for News and then it'll go follow across the bridge into Gloucester, just one 155 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,840 straight shot, no turns, no turns until he would have turned off on 156 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:52,480 my parents road. And there's no reason for him to have gone onto the 157 00:11:52,519 --> 00:11:54,799 parkway once he was on seventeen. I've driven that a number of times. 158 00:11:54,840 --> 00:12:01,279 There's no reason to get off there that the wall. We've heard is that 159 00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:05,759 Keith and his longtime girlfriend, Selena, whom you mentioned a moment ago, 160 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,039 were on a bit of a hiatus. They had sort of separated, if 161 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:13,080 you will, and they were a very close couple throughout the latter part of 162 00:12:13,159 --> 00:12:18,279 high school. Correct, that's right, they had taken a break. They 163 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,919 seemed fairly mature to me for it, as young as they were. But 164 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,440 I think back to my maturity level at that age, and she was in 165 00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:33,480 college and she was I think in her second year and he was in his 166 00:12:33,639 --> 00:12:37,879 first. I believe that they had just taken like a two week break and 167 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,919 had decided that they were going to continue on with their relationship. That is 168 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,960 from me. I do still keep in touch with Selena, and like I 169 00:12:46,039 --> 00:12:48,759 was saying, I just talked to her sister the other day. So people 170 00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:54,320 we've talked to who were at the college party at the Christopher Newport University apartments 171 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,600 University Square apartments, which are no longer there, they've told us that Heath 172 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:03,440 and Sane he didn't seem to spend a lot of time together that evening. 173 00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:07,360 They were in separate social groups at the party, and that Keith was in 174 00:13:07,399 --> 00:13:11,360 the kitchen for a good portion of time singing the blues about how much he 175 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,039 missed Selena to one of her friends. So it didn't sound like any kind 176 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,600 of big breakup between Keith and Selena. It actually sounded like they were going 177 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:26,279 to get back together exactly. Yeah, they were, and that's what she 178 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,279 had said too, And he was talking to his friend on each wol friend 179 00:13:30,279 --> 00:13:35,639 of both theirs in the kitchen for hours that night. Keith and Cassandra were 180 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,080 at the party together, but they weren't together as a couple at them And 181 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,960 I kind of remember doing that when I was young too. It's just okay, 182 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:48,039 let's go together, but we're not together at this point. Now that 183 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,840 we've caught up a little bit on the case, I want to make sure 184 00:13:50,879 --> 00:13:56,120 we talk about some of the issues that come up every time you guys cross 185 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,200 an anniversary, and I want to make sure we talk about some of the 186 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,440 good things that are coming up here with an upcoming monument. So I guess 187 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,720 my first question is what do you and your family do when it's time to 188 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,320 mark an anniversary. Do you have any rituals? Do you go to a 189 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,600 specific place? Do you have a beer for Keith? Like? What do 190 00:14:13,639 --> 00:14:20,039 you guys do to mark his memory on these weekends and years passed earlier in 191 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,120 the years, sometimes we would go to the Parkway, but we haven't done 192 00:14:24,159 --> 00:14:26,480 that in a long time, and actually don't really like to go there to 193 00:14:26,559 --> 00:14:31,120 do that. So usually we'll just say a prayer and we don't have any 194 00:14:31,159 --> 00:14:35,240 place to go. We've never had really any place to go that. The 195 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:41,960 main thing that we do is just amongst ourselves, tell ourselves and tell Keith 196 00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:46,159 and prayers that we are still fighting for you and we're trying our best to 197 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,399 find out what happened. It's my understanding that Keith didn't have a funeral or 198 00:14:50,399 --> 00:14:54,279 a memorial service, and I can understand that when there is no body to 199 00:14:54,440 --> 00:15:00,559 find that would I can understand that. Was there any other reasoning behind that 200 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,600 or not having a service for him, No, there was never really any 201 00:15:05,639 --> 00:15:09,759 other reason. I think the first few years, even when my dad was 202 00:15:09,799 --> 00:15:15,399 still alive and taking care of everything, it was still like so fresh and 203 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,799 we were trying it's okay. It was every years, we're going to find 204 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,960 something out, something's going to happen, or we would get our hopes up. 205 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,559 We're going to have a resolution to this somehow, somehow, and every 206 00:15:24,639 --> 00:15:28,360 year that's just carried us over, carried us over, and we're not giving 207 00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:35,200 up by any means now still. But the thing is, as y'all probably 208 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,039 are well aware of, as the years go by and we all get older, 209 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,960 I don't want to leave this earth and there not be anything mark of 210 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:48,879 his existence here on earth. And my brothers and I have talked about that 211 00:15:48,279 --> 00:15:52,720 in years pain the last seven or eight years, as we should probably do 212 00:15:52,759 --> 00:15:58,480 something. We should probably do something, but we hadn't yet. But now 213 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,480 I just feel like it's time. It's time, it's time, and I 214 00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:06,519 feel good about it. It's time to do it. So yeah, go 215 00:16:06,559 --> 00:16:10,559 ahead and talk to us a little bit about this monument that is going to 216 00:16:10,559 --> 00:16:14,039 be placed for Keith a little bit later this year. How did that come 217 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,120 about? And which company is actually doing the work on that? We'd love 218 00:16:17,159 --> 00:16:21,200 to sing their praises. This is how it actually started. Like I said, 219 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,080 we had thought about it on and off for years. This time last 220 00:16:25,159 --> 00:16:27,360 year, probably out of the glue, I get a phone call. It 221 00:16:27,399 --> 00:16:33,200 was probably a voicemail, and I call this fellow back and his name is 222 00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:38,960 Ed Taylor and he is with the Cumberland Historic Cemetery organization and that is in 223 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:45,720 Cumberland, Maryland, and he says that every year his organization donates a certain 224 00:16:45,759 --> 00:16:52,440 amount of monuments for stones to families for different reasons. It can be different 225 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,399 reasons. It can be somebody whose family member has been gone for a long, 226 00:16:56,559 --> 00:17:00,960 long longer than Keith and they never had a proper ary or stones, 227 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,279 or it can be there's a wide range. But what it was is he 228 00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:11,039 had traveled this area quite a bit in the early two thousands and he got 229 00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:14,640 familiar with our cases, and so he used to follow our cases and he 230 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,559 so told us when they were talking about who they wanted to donate to. 231 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:22,519 As they were talking about it last year, he brought up our cases with 232 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:26,720 the board of directors for his organization and they all seem very interested. So 233 00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:32,799 he called me to ask if my family and I would be interested before he 234 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,920 went any further. And I was like, let me ask them, But 235 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,759 I think so because we had been thinking about it. Fast forward after I 236 00:17:40,799 --> 00:17:44,480 talked to my brothers about it and they said yes, and we started talking 237 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,880 in summer of last year. So we decided to do it and they have 238 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:57,079 graciously along with Rosewell was where my parents are buried up Tomberland Historic Cemetery Organization. 239 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:02,519 Yeah, the monument, And I don't know. Do you want me 240 00:18:02,559 --> 00:18:03,720 to tell you what they put on it? What they're putting on it? 241 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,960 Yeah? We wait, No, absolutely tell us this is what's going to 242 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,240 be on it. It's going to have a ceramic tile of Keith, a 243 00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:15,440 picture of Keith. And I know y'all and your audience can't see that. 244 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,680 You will show it to you right there. It's going to go right there, 245 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,559 and it has his name and it has his birthday, and then it 246 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:29,039 says last scene Alive April tenth, nineteen eighty eight. Son of Richard and 247 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:33,720 Barbara call. He had a kind, loving and empathetic nature. He loved 248 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,960 his family and friends and had so much value in his family and world. 249 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:45,400 Keith's life was tragically stolen from him when he stopped at a cottage get a 250 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:52,759 college get together with Cassandra Haley last scene at University Square Apartments, Newport News. 251 00:18:53,599 --> 00:18:57,720 His car was abandoned on the Colonial Parkway. Their clothes were found in 252 00:18:57,759 --> 00:19:02,680 the car. No remains have been found as of twenty twenty three, when 253 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:10,359 this monument was unveiled by Cumberland Historic cemetery, the search continues, May God 254 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:14,480 have mercy on his soul and all souls, and then it leaves the space 255 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,599 on there just in case we ever do find any remains, we can put 256 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,480 a date on there. So that's what's going to be on the monument. 257 00:19:22,519 --> 00:19:26,160 We have had a limited space and so we had to condense it down. 258 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,079 I wanted to make sure Cassandra's name was on there too, so that's what 259 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,680 we're going to put on my parent's grave. I think it's beautiful. Both 260 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,559 of your folks are gone now, and you were telling us that this is 261 00:19:38,599 --> 00:19:45,599 a unique situation because Heath technically and Sandy are both missing persons. We don't 262 00:19:45,759 --> 00:19:49,960 know with one hundred percent assuredness that they're gone, but it's been thirty five 263 00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:56,160 years, so the chances are they've passed on. But it's a unique situation 264 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,880 in that here we are now putting a beautiful marker at the Roseville Cemetery, 265 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:07,720 but with no remains. Right. It actually sounded like there was some significant 266 00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:15,359 discussion behind the scenes between the Cumberland Historic Cemetery Group and the Roseville Cemetery about 267 00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:19,720 we've kind of never done this before, but everybody came together including your family, 268 00:20:19,839 --> 00:20:25,240 to show support for this idea. Yes, there had to be an 269 00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:30,640 agreement between Rosewell, which is hog you know home they owned Rosewell Memorial Gardens 270 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:36,839 where my parents are buried, and Cumberland. So Rosewell is going to install 271 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,759 the granite that goes underneath where the monument's going to sit. Cumberland is going 272 00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:45,759 to bring down the monument. And so they did come to agreement and they 273 00:20:45,799 --> 00:20:48,279 said that they would be glad to help us. So I was glad for 274 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,400 that. So everybody did. So a lot of it was just we had 275 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,359 to go through red tape on both because there was two sets of boarder directors 276 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:02,319 and you know how that's but everybody came together. It's so wonderful that Roswell 277 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,319 agreed to allow this to happen, because I guess they could have said no. 278 00:21:06,759 --> 00:21:10,799 They could have said no if they really could have. We were really 279 00:21:10,839 --> 00:21:17,119 hoping not because I guess basically, it's like Rosewell has been in this community 280 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,720 for a long time, and I know that the owners of that place have 281 00:21:21,839 --> 00:21:25,039 been around for a long time, and so they're familiar with a lot of 282 00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:29,920 people in this community, and so we knew that they were familiar with all 283 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,880 of the Colonial Parkway cases, so we were really hoping that they wanted to 284 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,839 support the community, which they did. I know it is highly unusual, 285 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,839 but it's not going to be taking up any of the other space. It's 286 00:21:41,839 --> 00:21:45,119 going to be right there with my parents, which is I think that if 287 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,319 they know anything, if they can never see anything, that they would be 288 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:53,079 happy. Oh I think so, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, you're 289 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,000 listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our 290 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:04,960 sponsors. We're back here at Mind over Murder. And just because I'm sure 291 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:10,519 that we're going to have people who ask why is there no monument on the 292 00:22:10,519 --> 00:22:15,279 Colonial Parkway? Either of you can of you? I'm getting when eye rolls 293 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,200 from both Joyce and Bill, please note, can either of you or both 294 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:25,319 of you speak to why there will not be a Colonial Parkway marker or monument 295 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,680 on the parkway? Joyce, would you like to take that or would you 296 00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:33,759 like me to i'ud like you to take that, respectfully. The National Park 297 00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:41,440 Service has never shown us an ounce of support, even some years back when 298 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:47,440 the call in Haley Families had made arrangements to bring in cadaver dogs to search 299 00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:52,440 some likely spots where remains might be found. Joyce can tell you more because 300 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,119 she was there and lived it along with the members of the Haley family. 301 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:03,279 We got nothing but resistance from the National Park Service since the very beginning. 302 00:23:03,319 --> 00:23:07,720 In my opinion, they've wanted nothing to do with the Colonial Parkway murders. 303 00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:11,279 I know they don't even like the name the Colonial Parkway Murders, which isn't 304 00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:15,240 something we made up. The media came up with this name. So I 305 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:21,440 don't think the National Park Service would ever allow anything that would indicate that such 306 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,440 a sad thing had happened along the Colonial Parkway. Maybe someday, it's funny. 307 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,200 They've got historic markers all over the place. They'll show you where all 308 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:36,839 of the old sites were, and some of the important plantations and other homes 309 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,039 and other places where significant events took place. But heaven forbid they'd ever acknowledge 310 00:23:41,319 --> 00:23:45,039 the fact that something sad happened out there, and by the way, assuming 311 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:51,039 for a moment that the Keith and Sandy were also taken from us, there 312 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,519 have been multiple murders on the Colonial Parkway. Ours are not even the only 313 00:23:55,839 --> 00:24:00,440 violent crimes that have taken place along the Colonial Parkway, and they want nothing 314 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,400 to do with any of this. Yeah, we've talked about the Audrey gene 315 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,079 Weiler case before. That is certainly, and that was a year before Kathy 316 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,000 and Becky. So no, these are not the only violent crimes that have 317 00:24:11,079 --> 00:24:14,079 taken place in the Parkway. But yeah, absolutely, I'm sure that the 318 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,599 NPS would throw up their hands and flee screaming into the night if you ever 319 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:23,079 mentioned the idea of let's memorialize this somehow. Even when the Colin Haley families 320 00:24:23,079 --> 00:24:26,799 were searching with the cadaver dogs, they seem to be more concerned day. 321 00:24:26,839 --> 00:24:32,480 The National Park Service seemed to be more concerned that a blade of grass would 322 00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:38,599 be disturbed by a passing dog than we'd advance this investigation of these unsolved murders 323 00:24:38,599 --> 00:24:44,920 and missing people. Ironically, the cadaver dogs did hit on something that day, 324 00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:49,079 and there were remains found along the Colonial Parkway. But understand that these 325 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:53,359 are historic sites and people have been buried there any number of times, so 326 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,480 there are unmarked graves all the way back to colonial times and even before. 327 00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:03,319 Things like that can and do happen, but the National Park Service doesn't want 328 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,720 to do anything to mark the locations where any of these sad events might have 329 00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:11,599 taken place. It's a shame. Joyce. You and I had a I 330 00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:17,119 think a fairly fun and productive conversation the other night about what ultimately we would 331 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:22,799 like to do once this monument is being placed. We'd like to honor Keith 332 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,119 and Sandra and all the victims in some way. So can you talk a 333 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,640 little bit about what kind of event you would like to see that's going to 334 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,240 honor the opening of the monument and also all of the cases. We know 335 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,680 that we're going to be holding this in October, which is right around the 336 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:45,160 time that the remaining three sets of Parkway cases will have their anniversary. In 337 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,839 addition to the timeframe, tell us about what you'd like to see. What 338 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,200 would you like to do. I think it's good that it's fall and where 339 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,400 we've decided to have that in October is a really good date to keep it 340 00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:00,640 out there for all of the victims' families. I really do that part of 341 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,680 it. So we want to honor Keith because we just feel like in our 342 00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:07,920 hearts that we need to do that for our family. And like I think, 343 00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:11,799 I don't know who I was telling you were Bill that before y'all and 344 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,599 I were talking about this the other day that in our minds at first, 345 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,200 when we thought about having a memorial service for Keith, we thought it was 346 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,519 going to We've going to just do a small family affair. We probably still 347 00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:29,640 will, but we have an opportunity at this point to represent for all the 348 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,680 families and to bring awareness to these cases. So we're going to have the 349 00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:38,759 memorial for Keith, but we also are going to invite some politicians we want 350 00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:45,319 to have keep pressure on the FBI and the state Police to get these paces 351 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,079 solved. We would love to put some pressure on the FBI to get them 352 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:55,599 to share work with off room labs. I know Bill talks about that a 353 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,720 lot, and I'm right on board with that, right on board with that. 354 00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:03,880 The cases that they are solving, there's no reason why they can't solve 355 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,960 at least one of ours, at least one of them. We want to 356 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:12,160 keep the awareness, keep the pressure on, celebrate some lives. Well, 357 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:17,240 talk about you'd mentioned wanting to see some politicians there. Who would you who's 358 00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:21,880 on your ultimate guest list. We have talked about so far, inviting her 359 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:27,240 North Win, some Seers, which is the Lieutenant Governor Jason mais is that 360 00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:30,400 am I saying that correctly? Mires? I think is how you say it. 361 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,079 And he's the Attorney general. And then some of our local bits. 362 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,119 And I know when you and I were talking the other night, Christian, 363 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:44,480 y'all were talking about winning Bobby Scott. Maybe we are going to be getting 364 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,920 together a media package and start sending out so by Aunt lu call Off. 365 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,359 Y'all know who she is, and she is going to be helping with that 366 00:27:52,759 --> 00:27:59,160 as well. And we've had invitations from a couple of the local news media 367 00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:04,440 reporters that they have some they can help us get in touch with some of 368 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,880 the politicians. So we are going to take them up on that. And 369 00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:14,279 you had stories that just ran a couple of days ago now on both wav 370 00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:18,279 Y and WTKR, two of the big television stations in the area. How 371 00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:22,640 did those come together? Oh, they did very well. They reached out 372 00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:29,599 to us. And when I was talking to Kelsey Smith WTKRS is who did 373 00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:33,799 an interview for Channel three, and she was all on board and she said, 374 00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:37,319 please keep me posted. I want to follow this and she says, 375 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,200 and by the way, I want to let you know that one of the 376 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,240 reporters who has done several stories from WTKR Brandon Ponton. He talks with Bill 377 00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:48,720 quite a bit. She tells me, Yes, he's a wonderful young guy. 378 00:28:49,079 --> 00:28:55,200 Yeah. She says that he actually does a lot of the interviews with 379 00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:59,480 politician. He has some very good connections and we should reach out to him 380 00:28:59,519 --> 00:29:03,160 too. She said, do you still have his number? If not, 381 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,000 I will give it to you. I do so. She was very helpful 382 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,960 and enthusiastic, and they do want to follow and be involved. And Wavy 383 00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:15,759 with Andy, Wavy with Andy Fox, and he was on board. And 384 00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:22,359 he also told me he instructed me actually he said this is this is what 385 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:27,720 you do. So we will be reaching back out to Andy too. And 386 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:33,720 Andy Fox is one of the reporters who has covered this case from the very 387 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,519 first event, and he's been so committed to the Colonial Parkray murders and so 388 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:44,960 helpful to the families. Gotcha, I know he's very passionate and committed and 389 00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:48,680 feels very close to your family and all of the families. Yes, he's 390 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,799 been there, just like you said, from the very beginning. And there 391 00:29:51,799 --> 00:29:55,680 are times that even if it's not on the news or anything, if it's 392 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,960 coming up on some kind of anniversary date. He will call me or text 393 00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:03,680 to me and he will say I'm thinking about you and your family just out 394 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,759 of the look. That's so kind and it means a lot. It means 395 00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:11,160 a lot that we're just just not a news case for him, that he 396 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,200 does care. When we did the Lover's Lane murder series on Oxygen, one 397 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:22,559 of the things that made me smile was seeing a very young Andy Fox as 398 00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:26,640 a reporter with a big swatch of dark hair, and then to see him 399 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,200 now, he's still a very handsome guy in all that, but he has 400 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:36,279 gone white. To look at those two different pictures, a young reporter and 401 00:30:36,319 --> 00:30:40,920 now a veteran reporter, it really served to remind you of the passage of 402 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,720 time way back in Keith and Sandy went missing to the present day, and 403 00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:48,160 to look at this reporter talking about the case, you were like, wow, 404 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,279 it really has been three decades. Bill. I do have a question 405 00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:56,559 for you. I'm going to turn the tables here a second. Do you 406 00:30:56,599 --> 00:31:00,880 see having a monument as something that you would like to do Kathy. I 407 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,279 know Kathy was cremated and her ashes spread at sea, so you don't really 408 00:31:04,319 --> 00:31:07,559 have a place you can go either. Is this something that you'd want to 409 00:31:07,559 --> 00:31:11,920 see done for Kathy and Becky? You know, I want to talk to 410 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,240 my brothers about it. I know one of the things that Ed Taylor has 411 00:31:15,359 --> 00:31:22,559 mentioned is that they might want to do something for Sandy and her family because 412 00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:25,599 we talk about these couples as couples, and the truth is, when you 413 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,839 actually get into the details of it, Keith and Sandy were friends from school, 414 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,240 but weren't a serious couple. They were out on a first date that 415 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,960 night. And so Sandy isn't from Gloucester, she's from the Grafton area. 416 00:31:40,519 --> 00:31:45,680 Her family members, if any, would be probably memorialized in a different place. 417 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,359 But interestingly, Ed Taylor said that he wanted to talk to the Haley 418 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:57,039 family about perhaps doing something maybe next year to memorialize Sandy, because we're not 419 00:31:57,119 --> 00:32:04,519 trying to minimize their loss. I thought what the Cumberland folks did was lovely 420 00:32:04,599 --> 00:32:07,880 and thoughtful. When you talk to me about this, Choyce, I was 421 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,440 like, Wow, these people aren't even from Virginia, They're from Maryland. 422 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,000 Mister Taylor's been following this case for so many years, and what a lovely 423 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:20,559 gesture. And I think it's something that might make a lot of sense for 424 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,880 Sandy. As far as the Thomases go, I'd really have to maybe sit 425 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,960 with my brothers and talk to them about it. Kathy was cremated and her 426 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,960 ashes were scattered off a US Navy ship off Norfolk, and we have videotape 427 00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:39,480 of the ceremony. Weirdly, only my father was permitted to attend. I 428 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,839 don't even remember how all that happened, and I'm not one hundred percent sure 429 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,519 that was necessarily the right way to go. But you're just doing the best 430 00:32:46,519 --> 00:32:51,079 you can, as Joyce can tell you, you just trying to support your 431 00:32:51,119 --> 00:32:54,799 parents and get through the most difficult time you've ever had in your entire life. 432 00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:59,880 There are things about the steps that we took that I'm not sure are 433 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:05,119 necessarily the best, but it's done, so I guess we'd have to think 434 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,319 about if you're going to do something to mark my sister Kathy's passing, where 435 00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:13,400 would you put it. Once again, speaking frankly, the United States Naval 436 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,759 Academy wanted nothing to do with my sister's murder. And there's a story that 437 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,240 needs to be told someday about just how far the Naval Academy took their efforts 438 00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:29,200 to create distance between themselves and what they saw is a scandalous murder of an 439 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:35,480 honors an APPLIS graduate being murdered with their girlfriend it. I guess we'd have 440 00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:39,039 to think long and hard about is this something we would like and where would 441 00:33:39,039 --> 00:33:42,799 we put that in? How could we do that in a way that was 442 00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:47,559 the most appropriate and heartfelt way to recognize losing someone like this. Even just 443 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:53,839 the physical location of it is no specific place that makes complete sense. Both 444 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,319 my parents are gone now and they were both cremated and their ashes were scattered, 445 00:33:58,359 --> 00:34:02,480 so it's not like there's a family plot like in the Call family example. 446 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,720 I was talking to Joyce about this a few weeks ago, and I 447 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,719 actually went online and looked at the Rosewell Cemetery, which is absolutely beautiful, 448 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,199 and I looked up the Calls, and of course there's a photograph of their 449 00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:20,840 marker. When Joyce and her brother Doug did the interviews, which were so 450 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,400 well done, you were standing there at the family plot. So to start 451 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,559 bringing this toor to clothes, I do want to ask again both of you, 452 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,119 because you are both the family members of victims, what do you think 453 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:38,719 right now? April twelfth, twenty twenty three. Is the biggest stumbling block 454 00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:44,480 to this case being solved? Jerce, I'll start with you and then let 455 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,920 Bill follow up. What is the biggest stumbling block to this case being solved? 456 00:34:49,519 --> 00:34:53,800 I think not enough communication. We don't know what is going on. 457 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:59,199 They feed us tidbits and a lot of it. We have to find out 458 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:04,199 on our own piece it together, and that's been difficult through the years. 459 00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:09,079 Also, I really and truly I am right on board with Bill in having 460 00:35:09,159 --> 00:35:15,400 our DNA with a lab or a lab that can test degraded DNA. At 461 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,760 this point, that's what our case has. From what I've been told, 462 00:35:20,039 --> 00:35:23,679 our cases are solvable with the DNA. What do we have to lose at 463 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,559 this point, We don't have a darn thing to lose. We have everything 464 00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,800 to gain. So that's what I want to see. And I'm speaking from 465 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,159 my whole family at this point, they are all on board. It's been 466 00:35:35,559 --> 00:35:39,320 so many years now I don't even understand, and this is my limited I'm 467 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,519 not in the service, I'm not in law enforcement. I'm just a family 468 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,360 member with a brother missing. I don't understand how after all these years that 469 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,960 they have to be so damn secretive. Tell us something, tell us something, 470 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,880 you don't have to shout it to the rooftops. Let us know what's 471 00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:01,000 going on before we all die off. Is that what you want? Good 472 00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:07,880 question? Good question. As for me, I agree with everything Joyce just 473 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:13,159 said. It pains me to say this, but I think our biggest roadblock 474 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,079 to success and experts have told us that this is a solvable case. The 475 00:36:16,119 --> 00:36:21,559 Colonial Parkway murders can be solved, but we need time, attention, and 476 00:36:21,639 --> 00:36:27,480 resources from the Virginia State Police and especially the FBI, the foot dragging and 477 00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:34,000 the bureaucracy. And you're the lowest possible priority because you're a cold case. 478 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:39,800 Policies, particularly of the FBI are infuriating. They are the reason these cases 479 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:45,000 are not being solved. When we have evidence being sent out from Keith's Toyota 480 00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:51,119 Celica and it takes over a year to get results, and this is a 481 00:36:51,159 --> 00:36:54,440 batch of evidence is sent in tested. We understand sometimes there are going to 482 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,679 be some strikeouts. We get that we're talking about cases that are thirty five 483 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,920 plus years old. But to be told, it'll take some time to get 484 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:08,360 results, and those results on just that round of testing take a year. 485 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:15,079 That's not acceptable, and I have told the FBI this in no uncertain terms. 486 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,559 The FBI Quantico lab is stacked up. It's too small to do the 487 00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:23,199 job that it's being asked to do. The private labs that Joyce has mentioned, 488 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:30,280 Othram Body and others are available. We will work with these agencies to 489 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:36,679 raise funds to cover the costs. The Call and Haley families in particular have 490 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,280 been very successful at raising funds. I am confident with the support that we've 491 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,320 been shown through the Mind Over Murder audience, our Facebook pages, social media, 492 00:37:45,519 --> 00:37:49,360 and the thousands of people that have reached out to us and said what 493 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,800 can I do to help these families that we could work out ways to raise 494 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:57,679 funds to cover costs. But for the FBI to say to me, oh, 495 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,480 we can't accept gifts of that type, it's not a gift. We're 496 00:38:00,519 --> 00:38:07,320 trying to solve our loved ones murders and missing persons cases. We need to 497 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,599 get some higher level of cooperation and as Joyce said, more information flow. 498 00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:17,400 It doesn't have to be public. It's infuriating to just feel like you're constantly 499 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:23,920 being pushed away and back from your own loved ones. Murder or missing person's 500 00:38:24,039 --> 00:38:29,679 case. We've lost more than half the parents. Now, if there are 501 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,679 eight victims, we have sixteen moms and dads. Or the eight victims in 502 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:38,199 the Colonial Parkway murders, we've lost more than half. Now nine of those 503 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:45,159 parents have died waiting for answers in the Colonial Parkway murders. It's infuriating to 504 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:51,000 have this drag on this way. I second that you both have already indicated 505 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,519 that you want your final, your concrete step. The next thing should be, 506 00:38:53,880 --> 00:39:00,239 let's put Authorum's considerable resources to the attention of this case. Is there 507 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,519 anything else that you'd like to see happen, like in the next year that 508 00:39:04,559 --> 00:39:07,760 would help move this case forward other than Offram. One other thing I'll add. 509 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:15,360 After hearing of all of the pushback that we were getting regarding expenses in 510 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:20,280 this case, the folks from Athram came back to me and said we'll do 511 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,679 the testing at no charge. And I thank them. And at first I 512 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,960 misunderstood them. I thought they were talking about Kathy and Becky's case, which 513 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,480 is only one of the four incidents in the Colonial Parkway murders. And then 514 00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:36,000 talking to Kristin and David middleman. Who are the two brilliant PhDs that run 515 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,000 that lab down in Texas. Kristen made it clear to me no, she 516 00:39:39,079 --> 00:39:44,239 said, no, you're misunderstanding. All of the Colonial Parkway murders. They 517 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:49,320 have offered to test any evidence we have from any of these four incidents in 518 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,159 the Colonial Parkway murders at no charge. So at this point, just like 519 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:57,639 Joyce said, what's the hold up here, they have offered to test everything 520 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:02,679 for free because they know how dedicated these families have been to seeking answers. 521 00:40:04,119 --> 00:40:07,320 I think we're running out of excuses here. And when I say we the 522 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:13,519 FBI and the Virginia State Police enough already, Like Joyce said, what are 523 00:40:13,519 --> 00:40:17,079 we going to do? Wait till the families die off completely? These are 524 00:40:17,159 --> 00:40:22,559 solvable cases. They're considered evidence rich. If we put the time, attention, 525 00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:27,280 and resources into these cases, they can be solved. Let's work together 526 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,880 to do that. That was the best place I can think of to end 527 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,280 this, Joyce. Over the next couple of months, we will be giving 528 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,639 out information with regard to this service that we're going to do for Keith. 529 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,559 Is that going to be for public consumption or is that meant to be a 530 00:40:43,559 --> 00:40:46,000 private family thing. In other words, if we have supporters who would like 531 00:40:46,039 --> 00:40:50,119 to come show their support for your family, could they do. They're very 532 00:40:50,159 --> 00:40:54,440 welcome. Yes, yes, we especially encourage any of Keith and Sanders old 533 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,960 close friends. We would love to hear some stories to make us last. 534 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,199 That would be wonderful. Yeah, no, they're definitely welcome. We will 535 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,960 keep everybody posted and thank you. That's going to do it for this episode 536 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:14,119 of mind Over Murder. As we have additional information about all of the Vince 537 00:41:14,199 --> 00:41:16,679 and the memorials, we will start putting that up on our social media. 538 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,079 Thank you so much for listening to this episode of mind Over Murder. We'll 539 00:41:21,079 --> 00:41:35,079 see you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 540 00:41:35,199 --> 00:41:40,000 Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our 541 00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:45,000 logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin mcleoud. 542 00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:51,840 Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. You can follow 543 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,119 us on Facebook, Twitter or Instagram. You can also follow our page on 544 00:41:55,159 --> 00:42:00,920 the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, you can hello Bill Thomas 545 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:06,920 on Twitter at Bill Thomas five. Six Thank you for listening to Mind Over Murder.