What is krack alacin fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am Dan Valley coming at
you with my certified fantabulous dripping with fantabulous miss co host of the best podcast
in the business, or so says Steph Curry, number one to every single
episode Hardwood Knocks. Grant Hughes, you're the co host that podcast makes sense
just I know you and Stephford tights. It makes sense that he would listen
to every single episode. So we showed up on second I believe, on
his Spotify rap list. So that's really that's really cool shout out there.
I hope, I hope people get the bit. We're here to talk winners
and losers of the twenty twenty four NBA Playoffs so far, emphasis on so
far. We recognize this can change, but we played almost a week's worth
of basketball. Grant and I have watched exactly zero minutes of it, but
we figure we're going to deliver some takes and fakes on it anyway. But
first and foremost, before we hop to it, Grant, are you doing
just happy to be number one? You know? Uh, just really number
two on Steph's Spotify raptless We need to. But yeah, but those aren't
those numbers. They change all the time, like like you say, oh,
our winners and losers may change, like it will be number one there.
It's just kind of inevitable. Yeah, it's nice to just another episode.
Another this is We haven't even put this one out yet as we're recording
it obviously, but I've heard people are saying people are saying that it's going
to be probably our best one ever. So which is excited about that?
The bar is high because our last episode was our best one ever according to
a bunch of people. And actually the love on that episode was great,
except there were some people. I like when people are in the comments,
so we did for anyone who don't listen to it. Yet. The one
thing that we got wrong about each NBA team, and there was this one.
It was a shocker. It was a Pelicans fan in the comments that
said, yeah, you did get this what you said that you got wrong
about the Pelicans? They said, yeah, you did get that wrong.
Like yet thanks chief. We agree? We agree, Hey, look common
ground, that's how we bridge bridge divides. We agree on something, let's
work from there. We are recording this as grant mentions though before the games
on Thursday. So anything we say about Nick Sixers, Calves, magic and
Lakers nuggets. I guess it's technic subjects to change. But these feel,
with the exception of Philly Knicks, like these series just feel kind of over
and we know how the tenor of it is is going to go. But
I'll let you guide us. You want to go winner loser, it's it's
it's dealer's choice, Okay, I'll take a winner. I thought this was
more true after Game one of this series, but it's still he was good
enough in Game two that I think it holds. I think Damian Lillard is
a little bit of a winner here, and that's based on well, like
the narrative all season, which was like, I feel like narrative gets such
a bad rap now because people use it as like a way to I don't
know, it's like a derogatory term, like, oh, you're caught up
in the narrative. It's like, well, it just means like the story
that people care about about a team or a thing. The narrative was,
yeah, you know, the the y honest dame chemistry hasn't really been there.
Where's all the pick and rolls, like, why isn't this working?
Why does it feel my turn your turn never clicked right? And so Yannis
being out that's obviously objectively bad for the Bucks chances. It's why we both
picked the Pacers, I think in large part in addition to some other things
with the Bucks. But this version of Damian Lillard that we've seen in games
one and two is like, I know that guy that's familiar, that worked,
that worked for a long time. Like he built a Hall of Fame
career around some spread, pick and roll, slash, pick and pop,
you know, get downhill if you can pull up for three, if there's
a drop coverage, spray some passes around to open shoot, Like that's Damian
Lillard's game, and he's really good at it. And it was good enough
to basically end Game one at halftime because he had thirty five in the first
half and just was daming all over the place. And the in game two
he had another what thirty four? I think I should have the stats right
in front of me. Yeah, thirty four points on twenty one shots.
So made some threes, made some free throws, was really good again,
played thirty nine minutes, Like, yeah, the defense isn't great from him
or the Bucks generally speaking in Game two, but like, this is a
Dame we know in love, and it's kind of nice when as a fallback
plan for the Bucks, like, oh, you know what, we don't
have Giannis at all, but even if we did, some of the chemistry
just isn't quite there. But like, as a plan B to have Dame
just do the things that he's done for his whole career effectively, Like that's
a nice fallback option. So it makes Dame look good. I think it.
It doesn't like, I don't know if it changes what we think about
this series. We could talk about that, but it's just nice to see
like a version of Lillard that still exists that we didn't really get to see
a ton of this year helping the Bucks kind of at least split those first
two games. There's just a weird element where I look at what he did
this season and maybe I don't know how much of it has to do with
just the awkward synergy it felt like this team had, But a lot of
it just comes down to, okay, well when his jumpers are falling,
because he's like he's put a lot of pressure on defenses for them and even
open the floor obviously when he doesn't have the ball, just by virtue of
being the threat that he is doesn't give you any pause though that this is
kind of like this second time it feels like in the past couple months where
it's Damian Liller's a winner because Giannis Attemakopo's not playing. Yeah, I mean
that's part of the problem like that with this whole team's construction. So it
gives me a ton of like long term big picture for the Bucks, like
this is not a good thing necessarily when Dame kind of looks and feels better
by himself out there. But yeah, I just like for this series because
he is all they have or you know, they don't have Giannis, so
this is gonna have to be how it goes. The fact that they did
get one of those games because as Dame was really good, like you know,
it's not wasn't their plan, but but it's a positive I think in
some sense. But big picture, yeah, like the fact that they never
really clicked is not a great sign or the rest and the fact that the
whole team didn't never seem to really catch a rhythm that felt there. It
feels like there's a roster construction flow there, but I still would remain ultra
confident if nothing nuclear happens, which depends on how the playoffs ends. We
can't say it won't. Johannis and Dame are gonna figure it out even more.
But it's just if you give them another training camp together. I honestly
think that if we if they're together next season, I think we're gonna look
back on it like maybe it'll have a Timberwolves like feel to it. Yeah,
I love that call. I think too, like based on the way
that Adrian Griffin had them defending to start the year, like how much faith
do you have in him? Like putting the right offensive stuff in place for
Damon Giannis going into the season. So maybe it's just like, you know,
I think the larger concern is actually trying to change in are out the
pieces around them, because it's just like they're just gonna be so inflexible as
a team that is, you know, taxed out to the to the high
heavens. But immediately, no, I'm with you that Dame's been playing great,
which he tends to do, and like that, like he even had
Dame time moments with the bucks this year is a ton, but you want
to see him playing at this level consistently when Jannis is also available. Yeah,
and that's hard to do, right because if Dame is doing this,
it kind of reduces It's fine if it's brook Lopez or Bobby Portis or whoever
setting those screens and kind of like getting out of the way, But like,
you want Giannis to do more than that for this car really work.
Can he also and I'm not even trying to be like funny here, but
can he actually get out of the way Because it's like Bobby Portis and Brook
Lopez have a stretch to them that Jannis doesn't quite have, and so he
deserves credit for cleaning up his shot diet, the stuff with the passing.
But like so, but I again, I think those two, if you
give them, if they're gonna be together next season, I'm not sure to
insinuate anything sinister there. I think we'll look back on maybe not this and
think it's a joke. But I just think they'll be infinitely better off than
they were at this. Yeah, I'm with that. I agree with that.
I will take us to a loser and this is not one you kind
of knew what I had planned, but I don't think you knew that I
had this one planned. It's about to go on a little bit of a
rant right here, let's do it. Losers are people who complain about officiating
costing them games. You're objectively a loser if you're doing that. I'm not
singling out Joe el Embiid and the Sixers specifically, except I am the whole
officiating thing. We've seen this with the Lakers before, or the Lebron was
griping about the officiating. You have forty eight minutes of the game, if
there's no overtime to figure it out. They're not missing every single call.
Human error happens, and like that's part of the game. And I very
much believe you can look at the Lakers free throw disparity relative to opponents if
you want to go there. This stuff just balances out. And I'm gonna
use the Philly Knicks game as an example. In Game two, the six
Ers were in the lead for most of that game and stuff went wrong during
the final minute and the NBA comes out this is another loser, is the
two minute report? Because oh cool, there's transparency that you're admitting your mistakes.
Nothing comes from it, Nothing comes from it, Like it's just gonna
make fan bases angry because nothing's going to get resolved. But I'm still of
the mind and I honestly don't understand what it is about fandom that some people
can't discconnect from this. There was forty seven minutes of that game where they
could have built a bigger lead or not blown the lead they had, they
didn't. That wasn't all down to officiating. And so yes, errors happen,
and they're going to be spotlighted, and they're going to be gutting when
it's in high stakes moments and you don't want those to happen, but there
will never be You can't look at this say, oh man, those five
calls cost us the game. It's like, well, what happened during the
other forty minutes of the game, And that bugs the shit out of me.
Also, a loser people that leak the grievances that are filed to not
the people who are reporting, but the teams that are disseminating that information knowing
it'll get out. And this is like Daryl Morey's calling card. What the
Sixers just did is not actually unique. It's unique that we just don't hear
about it all the time, and the framing is just it's tired. It's
what are you trying to like, what are you actually trying to win here?
Public perception or you think it'll influence what the officials are going to do
moving forward. I understand officiating is not perfect, and I understand that maybe
this league has an officiating problem. There's certainly we've talked about it, the
way that they just shifted the way they were calling things without ever publicly acknowledging
it, but then denying it but then also acknowledging it at the same time.
I'm not saying, like the officiating in the league is perfect here,
but just enough is enough. There's never one or two or three calls that
you unless you're going back and forth and it's a one possession game, the
entire game, oh one, two, three calls is actually going to be
the reason that you lost. I'm just so I never understood and I will
never understand that part you want to. I get it in the moment,
like this is a miscall, this sucks, But are you, like,
do you ascribe any validity to this idea? That the officials can like turn
game like like that these one, two, three call misses are just unforgett
there, as Adam Silver might say that their cardinal sins. I think like
a couple of things I got. I have more patience, which I still
I agree with you, like I'm sick of it. I don't want to
hear any more of this. I have more patience for like the player at
the end of the game who is exhausted is like in a place where maybe
they're being more emotional than rational and they do things like Joel Embiid did where
it's just it's unacceptable, like head down, like upset, like, yeah,
you're not your best self in those moments, Like you definitely might say
some things that you know, if you were like had your breath back and
had some time to like decompress and let the adrenaline subside, you might be
more rational about it. To me, that's very different than a front office,
and particularly because it's Daryl Morey and the Sixers, because they did the
same shit with the Rockets all the time, like just sending just I don't
know, I imagine that him just like spamming the league office with like look,
at this wrong call, look at this one, look at this one,
and here's what we lost this many games as a result, like all
these measurable things, Like I have way less patience for that because I feel
like that comes from a place of if anyone is out there seeking marginal advantages
wherever possible, it's it's it's lead executives like Moriy where it's like, what
are the market inefficiencies we can exploit, like in every possible area. Hey,
maybe complaining to the league office is a market inefficiency we can exploit and
somehow down the line, like you said, it influences referee behavior somehow to
our advantage. Like there's no downside to us. They're not going to like
find us for complaining or or whatever, as long as we do it within
the rules. But it's like it feels to me like it comes from a
place that's like kind of it's it's hyper competitive, but it's also like a
little bit of bullshit because you're just trying to like find some edge that you
don't deserve. So that rubs me the wrong way. The other thing that's
wild to me is that, like, Okay, whether you're a player or
an executive or an organization, you're complaining about the officiating costing you games,
like it's because the referees made mistakes, and unless you're gonna say these mistakes
are not mistakes and are instead motivated by some bias against us, which is
this is where fan bases lose their minds and say like they want the Lakers
to win because of the TV money or whatever, Like unless you're willing to
say, like, hey, here's why these mistakes are happening. We think
the league wants certain results and is influencing officials. Like Okay, if you're
gonna go out and say that, then like I'm listening now, because that's
like a real accusation. You're like saying a real thing. But if it's
just complaining about mistakes being made, like fuck off, I don't care like
players misshots, coaches don't call timeouts at the right time, coaches don't like
everybody makes the ref's job is hard, like they're never gonna get it all
right. Nobody shoots one hundred percent from the field every night. Like if
anyone could identify with like this is a difficult thing to get right all the
time, it should be players, coaches and executives like that's that's the name
of the game. So I just unless you're willing to describe like some nefarious
like motivation like enough like I don't, I don't. I don't want to
hear it anymore. I love That is the closest you have come to like
being my rate of this podcast. I love it, And you didn't make
a great point. I have actually more patience for what Joelle Embi did And
I don't know if he was upset or sick with his head down, and
I wasn't trolling that in the slightest, but I respect it when you know,
if as the team leader, you're gonna come out and say that,
so it's not this uh you know, defeatist mentality where it's no where the
rep we're gonna win this series. I respect that. I like it when
coaches like kind of suck up the fine and they'll completely that stuff. I
totally understand. It's the actual belief. It's mostly from fans, like the
players aren't coming. I'm like, man, we would have won like four
more games this year if the officials didn't have it out against If you honestly
believe that there's an agenda against your team specifically or in favor of every I
just I don't have patience for that stuff. I'm kind of with you there,
I'm not kind with you. I am I'm a thousand percent lock step.
Stop complaining. This is this is the this is the podcast where complaining
is not allowed, although I'm sure all we do is complain a lot of
the time. We're complaining about people complaining, and yeah, that you can
do. I want to pick a winner here, and uh, I'm gonna
get on your corner a little bit. Again, I think Tom Thibodeau's unorthodox
methods or just like his approach in general, I'm obsessed with this idea has
been like a winner. It's always fun to me when uh, like,
I don't know a team building approach or like a coaching approach or a playing
style or whatever that's supposed to not work that the rest of the league.
Like again, Thibodeau was in that player poll, like the coach that you'd
least like to play for. Again, like he owns that category. Like,
oh, he plays guys too many minutes, the rotations are too short.
He cares too much about the game in front of him and not the
big picture, Like that's that's a hindrance. Nobody else operates that way.
I love it when that like looks like it's working and is also maybe creating
like down the downstream benefits somehow. Like this is all just sort of me
putting, you know, beautiful minding things and like putting things together that maybe
aren't there. But like, and I just thought about this earlier today,
like the de Vincenzo shots right to win Game two, missed the first,
made the second. This is a guy that was not a high volume three
point shooter, and like he became one, right, Like there's lots of
reasons for that, but I just think the idea that he succeeded. And
I know I've talked to you about this, I've talked to everybody that will
listen about this. Like him just shooting that second three after he missed the
first is my favorite moment of the playoffs so far, cause a lot of
guys won't shoot that, And like, I didn't think he would shoot that
because I watched every game he played for the Warriors last year, and that's
not a shot he would take because it's like, oh, someone's got a
better one. This is the wrong time I'm going along on de Vincenzo,
I'll circle back to the TIBs thing, But like he was empowered to shoot
that shot, Like, that's not a shot you shoot unless you believe your
teammates and your coach or whatever are confident that you should shoot it and that
you'll make it, and you let it fly and he hit it. And
so you tie that sort of empowerment to like Josh Hart playing every minute and
the Knicks just killing everyone on the offensive boards and all these guys overperforming Duce
McBride, like what like where did this come from? That he suddenly like
a guy you know in the playoff series hasn't been playing as much as the
end of the regular season, but still like Jalen Brunson leveling up and just
carrying an offense, like all this stuff where it's like, well, what
if playing everybody forty two minutes a night gets them a bunch of extra reps
And it's just like they're more confident with each other, they understand how each
other played better because like maybe other teams that are staggering minutes and pricing in
rest days and this and that and the other, like you get half the
reps by the end of the season with with a certain set of teammates,
and maybe like playing all those minutes, if you can hold up like conditions,
you better to hold up against like playoff intensity. Like maybe short rotations
are the way to go if you're really trying to Like there's all these things
that Thibodeau has done that get like criticized because they're outside the norms and outside
the trends, and it's like, yeah, generally you want to be kind
of going with the majority, but like it's really fun when the sort of
out of step, like when the zag really feels like it's working. I'm
not saying it's going to continue to but I'm just so into the idea that
Thibodeau is like succeeding with all of his like firmly held principles that nobody else
believes in anymore. Like that's that's a fun angle to me. Yeah,
And I mean look to his credit though also, and part of this it
feels was born from necessity. He's more flexible than he ever was, Like
look at the look at how small they just play at the four. Even
during the non Julius random minutes when Randall was healthy, trying out three guard
lineups, the way they've used Isaiah Hartenstein, just the three point volume in
general, like with the Vincenzo on previous iterations of Tom Thibodau specifically have had
the green light that he does with New York and he answer is no.
So that's a really big deal. And it's it's funny because I thought they
needed to fire Tims. It was like seven or eight games into last season,
not this season. And I think there are some people that still might
believe he's not the coach to get them over the humper to maximize. But
you're also looky and everything you just laid out is it's inarguable at this point,
And you know you mentioned that player poll. It's sort of is he
like the Patrick Beverley of head coaches in the sensor? Maybe Patrick Beverley's not
thereat, but like everyone seems to dislike him from the outside or have gripes
of him from the outside, but then when you're playing for him or playing
with him, Like I'm trying to think of what the player analog would be
here, where it's everyone seemed Draymond Green from the outside, but if you
play for him, you would die for him almost, although the Warriors have
seemed fed up with him at point. I think of what they've put up
with, Like your point is right, Like you don't put up with that
for anybody else, right, And so that's interesting. And part of it,
you could say, is well he has players, which is true,
that kind of embody his ethos where it's like Josh Hart's just a psychopath,
right, But dude, it's just I don't know if he's ever gonna come
out of a game. I mean, I guess we'll know on because they're
playing after we record this. But so like in Jalen Brunton, is just
you know, I don't I do. There's a gap in NBA coverage right
now. Oh here comes another very quick rant. But where it's we've been
we've been so conditioned to think that while talking about transactions is wrong and we
need to focus on the game, that it also it has in a way
helped dehumanize these players a little bit. And so what I mean by that
is when you're focusing solely on the x's and o's and the nitty gritty of
the coverage, I missed the like and we still get this, like thank
God for me or Fader at the Ringer, who's just like able to put
out these fantastic but I love those piece member Howard Beck, He's one of
my favorite writers forever, and like all of a sudden he's bouncing around.
He still does this great work, but it doesn't feel like we're as interested
or that type of coverage gets a lot of shine. These Knicks are that
type of coverage. There's just I had written about this the other day and
I'm not necessarily one to hang my hat on the way to frame this,
but at what point do we look at these Knicks, at these Thibodeau,
at Tom Thibodau specifically, and stop saying like, oh, the Knicks are
kind of existing on the margins when you look at well, he's playing Josh
Hart too many minutes and they only have this one star and just except that
maybe they're just deep, have the right mix of talent and there's a connectivity
there that like you can see it with the Thunder in some of their postgame
interviews, and so like, this Knicks team is special in the sense that,
no, I don't expect them to come out of the East, but
and yes, some things have broken right for them, But they've also dealt
with injury in turn over it at the top of the roster all year that
other teams, even relative to the injuries everyone's dealing, turn over everyone's dealing
with I kind of exceeded that, and I just don't Yeah, you could
say Thibodau gets the most out of these situations. I just don't think I've
ever seen a more malleable or I hesitate to use the word innovative, So
let's just flexibility is the one. I've never seen a more flexible, flexible
version of Tom Thibodeau I than I've seen right now. I mean, I
think to his credit too, this is just another way to frame what you're
saying. Is like he's got what he's got in terms of personnel, and
so he's been like willing to just say, like, all right, well
what is the best way that this group of guys can play it? And
it's like, well, Josh Hart's never going to come out of the game.
We're going to shoot a ton of threes. We're just like, what
we got are some offensive rebounders and guys that hustle, and we can shoot
a lot of threes, and like that's what we'll do if the roster were
different. I'm fairly confident because he's coached very different rosters in the past,
like they would play differently. Like that's that's I mean, we talk about
this all the time, Like one of the marks of a really good coach
is willingness to just like make the best out of what your roster happens to
be and not try to like shoehorn or roster into a style you prefer.
So, I mean that's a credit to him. I want to ask you
though, like, because I'm about as non local to New York as it
gets, like I'm on the other side of the country. You being closer
when I'm watching specifically in Game two, but throughout the series and definitely during
parts of the regular season. It there's something that feels to me like I
can't remember since like thirty years ago, watching maybe some of those like early
twenty tens like Mellow Teams with Jason Kidd there and like like really the last
like semi successful stretch for this franchise, But you got to go back to
like the nineties to where Madison Square Garden is really like buzzing. There's there's
like this. The fans are like all in on this team, and I
think it's partly because of how gritty the team is and like how hard they
play, and just like the identity feels like it just feels right to me
that like there's a NIX team that's playing this way. Is it being embraced
that way or do you Is that just like me from too far away trying
to like impose something on a fan base. No, No, I don't
think you're super imposing anything over them. I will say this definitely feels different.
But there was also that kind of feeling during the Julius Random Most Improved
Player campaign to where it's like, not that this team was free from this
is That's what's interesting is that team did not have the same expectations that this
team did. And that's what makes this NIXT team also special, is that
there was expectations coming off of what they did last year where they they overperformed
relative to expectations, and now it's you know, there was people like me
who were kind of pumping the brakes, like, hey, progress isn't linear
unless they're gonna make a big trade. Don't expect them to win more games.
They won more games anyway while being dealt like a less ideal availability hand
overall. So no, you're absolutely right that there's just it's it's embracing just
kind of the the essence of this team, but also the fact that it's
happening after last season when they were already good and created it laid the groundwork
for these immediate expectations that that now they haven't just met, but they've arguably.
We'll see how the playoffs end, but it seems like they're they're exceeding.
Yeah, I'm into it, So you gotta I don't want you to
have to keep picking losers. I feel like, if we're all a winner,
so why don't you go to your first loser? Hmmm. I don't
want to go with a loser here. I like being I like being positive.
Dan, all right, I'm gonna say, Okay, this is kind
of a roundabout loser, and it's gonna it's gonna turn out being positive anyway.
Anthony Davis feels like a bit of a loser to me because uh,
he's had two really good games against the Nuggets, and it's just like and
and I think we talked. I think I said before this series started that
like there's a possibility we'll emerge from this uh Nuggets versus Lakers series having seen
the Nuggets sweep the Lakers, and we can still say, like Anthony Davis
is the best possible guy to throw out there against Denver. Like that's it's
nothing about getting swept would change that, I don't think, and like that's
that's where we're going, because Davis has been amazing and is overmatched like at
the same time, and it's just kind of like demoralizing for the Lakers for
sure, but for Davis, I imagine in particular because it's like, what
you know, I was surprised he was not a top three Defensive Player of
the Year candidate or a finalist, and he certainly could have been. He
wasn't, right, he didn't make the top three Rudy, Yeah, which
is top three, So obviously that's obviously that's correct. But like, I
think Davis is just as good as you can hope for as someone to throw
at Jokic and the Nuggets in general. And it's just like it's not good
enough because Jokic can just back him down if he needs to. Uh.
He and like as as influential as Davis is around the basket on guys,
you know, trying to finish layups. It's just it's not enough. It's
not enough, and and that, like I can't get over feeling sort of
bad for him, even though he's been incredible, like what was fourteen and
nineteen in game two or something ridiculous like that, like thirty two and fourteen
in game one, with like four or five, he just like playing great.
I saw people, and I don't you know, I don't have a
problem when players necessarily do this where he's talking about how have I never won
Defensive Player of the Year type deal? I mean, it's it's a little
odd, but when you look at who else has won it, has there
been a defensive Player of the Year, So Marcus Smart maybe is the one
you point to, Like just during recently, it's like, well, could
that have gone a different direction? It's like, well should Davis? I
don't even know how many games he played that year. So I don't have
an issue though with what he's saying. But then he goes out and like
people are trolling him with that quote when Jamal Murray hits a ridiculously tough game
winners, what was it? What else was ad supposed to do. And
I'm sure there could be a well, because we live in the well actuallyest
world of all this, well, well, if his hips were turned like
twelve more games, it was like perfectly contested seven feet tall, Like that's
that's just it's a microcosm of the series. Like he did everything you could
ask him to do, and it just wasn't an So it's like that's you
gotta miss me. I didn't see the criticisms of like, oh we got
you got cooked on that game. It's like I didn't see it. Like
there was a few quote tweets of the screenshot of his comment about the defensive
players the year with Jamal Murray or that, and like I even made the
joke, but it was it was more of a compliment to did you see
the Darvin Ham quote where he was just like was like, fuck, I
don't know what to do, so I said Anthony Davis guarding Jamal Murray on
that final possession And but that's like it was meant more so as what else
are you supposed to do? What do you do? Yeah, it's it's
like, you know, you don't see a lot of these a lot of
teams and players as good as Davis, and the Lakers just kind of looking
like, I mean they all they barely lost Game two, right, Like
it's as close as margins get and it's just like the banner you can't you
can't do anything. You can't like you can't do anything, and oh man,
I don't want to focus on so I'm I haven't of all my like
pre prepared stuff. I'm about to deviate again because you said something that I've
been kind of thinking about for a while, and I've even alluded to it
a little bit on the podcast A Loser in all this? Do you think
it's these star heavy teams, like top heavy teams to where I'm not saying
depth all of a sudden matters in the playoffs, where Mark Dagnel's is gonna
empty his bene even when it's not a blowout. But I'm looking at the
Lakers with and it's it's not even necessarily a payroll thing. They made some
missteps building out the roster around Lebron and ad But if you can't just have
these two let's say top ten guys or even three, like top twenty five,
I mean, Beal's not a top twenty five player anymore. But my
point being, look at these teams. Look at the teams that have invested
like heaviest in the top, where it's the Bucks. I know Giannis is
absent right now, where it's the Clippers, where it's the Lakers, where
it's the and maybe it invested the wrong word because some of these are missteps.
Where's Phoenix as we're recording is exactly. None of these teams are leading
their theories at the moment. And you could chalk it up to well,
Kuhimeist like Game one of the Clippers, Well that's the game that the Clippers
won. So it's just like, well, like what are we doing here?
My whole thing is just do you look at it now? And this
is not a like this almost predates the because we haven't really felt the implications
of what. I love that Keith Smith's of'spow track caused this the super tax
fuck the second aprin I love the super tax term. It's not just a
super tax thing. It's that if we kind of as the league so talented
coach is so creative to where it's like, okay, you can have these
really high paid guys in your roster, but if you're not gonna have the
right and I wouldn't even say right, but ideal supporting cast around them,
tailored to their needs, or to at least optimize the collective that you just
can't get by not being able to do more inventive stuff to where they're even
more. Let's use the Suns in Timberwol series as an example, where it's
Kevin Durant as a fail safe and it's just like, eh, okay,
whatever, and like you shouldn't it wouldn't it be cool if Phoenix was able
to do more creative shit to take more threes? And people are so inclined
to blame coaching a la Frank Vogel, but it's like, you look at
these players and if it's one, they're not taking the right shots, or
just you don't have the right personnel around them because they're so shallow because you
went all in, or you just made missteps in team building. I get
that. I'm kinda I don't mean to make this well, like good teams
are better than bad teams, like teams that were built. What I'm saying
is it feels like the stuff on the margins matters more than ever did before
and the people who are so invested in the idea that these two or three
guys can get us by and overcome either a lack of functional flexibility, which
you know if when you have Kevin Durant on offense as dynamic as he is,
he's not limiting, but like it's very clear that like you're not gonna
use him in all these different like wild off ball actions, and even if
you do, it's kind of not with a lot of movement type deal.
And I'll wrap it up here, I promise, Like, do you get
that sense that this is like that model is kind of not that these players
are going to be devalued, but it becomes more paramount to Okay, if
this is the guy, then we need to hit on the supporting cast to
make sure that we're as malleable as possible elsewhere. Am I just kind of
no jumping the shark here? No, I think there's a couple things working
here, one of which is, like I think we would both agree that
like you still need several like superstar level guys and certainly a top five guy
to win a title. Like that's like that's not going to change, but
I think it I do take your point and I think it's interesting to think
about. Like, so if you pull together Phoenix is the example. I
guess probably that's top of mind. You pull together three guys that are different
players, but ultimately like you're playing kind of fantasy basketball a little. It's
as how it feels is like let's get you know what, Let's just say
Bill as a top twenty five player. I don't think he is, either,
but it's like, let's get three top twenty five guys and we'll figure
it out. Like okay, that one, Like you cost yourself the depth
of talent that you need, especially in the playoffs, to some extent.
Right, you don't need a twelve guy in the playoffs, but what you
do need are guys that can't be exploited, guys that don't have clear weaknesses,
because those are the guys that playoff teams hunt, right, Like I
think Bob Myers a couple of years ago said, like, you just need
someone who doesn't give the other team like an obvious flaw to exploit, Like
he doesn't have to be great anything, but he can't be bad at something
like that, because in the playoffs, that just can undo an entire scheme,
right, or like give another team an opportunity to just like negate your
talent advantages elsewhere. So that's one thing I think the Suns are a great
example of that, Like in addition to the three guys just not really like
fitting well together and having been thrown together fairly recently and not having a lot
of reps like all that stuff. In play you got a minimum salary guys
like playing playoff minutes, and they're gonna have more because Grayson Allen sprained his
ankle again. So like just the roster construction side of it, I think
is just harder because you can't fill out a roster unless you get really lucky,
like you just you'd have to hit on so many, you know,
six, seven, eight ninth guys. So I think that's part of it.
I think too maybe your point about like coaching is just better and like
the tactics are smarter and teams are more willing to exploit every frailty in the
playoffs, like so that just makes it harder to to sort of compete if
all you have are those top guys and you're kind of thin elsewhere. So
it's all kind of of a piece. But like I definitely I mean,
I'm just I get we all go into the Suns as a loser here because
I think it's it's logical to kind of tie them to it. We break
it up with with some winner talk. I mean, I just I'll piv
you. No, do you have anything to add? I think I think
you're right. I think, like the the top heavy thing, it feels
flimsier than it has in a long time. We should have framed it as
these teams that have depth are winners. Just kind of looking at or that
like that have complimentary pieces and that have guys that don't give you an opportunity
to exploit them like that. That's another way to talk about depth. I
do have a winner that will lead us into the suns. Okay, my
winner is the Minnesota Timberwolves. Just in some I think, look, they're
to me proof of concept was not a burden they ever should have needed to
ferry entering the playoffs. They just won fifty six games, They had the
league's best defense, inspent the majority of the year, a top the Western
Conference. Now they didn't finish the top the Western Conference, and this core
fully healthy, is new to the playoffs, so there's still that level of
curiosity, but to look at them when they just had the league's best defense
by basically a mile, and have this doubt and look at Phoenix and say,
they're built to stress test their defense because of their shot makers, because
of the shots that they want to take the timber Wolves are going to give
them and they You were the one that pointed this out to me, and
the piece is not live, so I hope that you were correct. But
like the Suns entered that series as fait, the series is favorites correct,
like the odds on favorites, and it's well, the Timberwolves offense can come
up and look at the turnover issues and Karl Anthony Towns is coming back from
a meniscus injury. We just saw eighty two games of the Suns like showing
us who they were, which is talented at the top, shallow everywhere else,
the league's pre eminent explorers of both extreme peaks and desolate valleys. But
we decided the Timberwolves, who just had more of an higher end, equal
liberri room even when things weren't going to go, even when Karnthie Towns went
injured and they were still pulling out victories. It might have been imperfect,
it was happening. Now you're up to Zho on the team that was just
almost universally considered the less than ideal matchup for you. And I'm not saying
people did not have a point about, well, Phoenix might be able to
do this, but this like lingering doubt that the Timberwolves were anything but a
legitimate threat to come out of the Western Conference, Like, weren't they just
the team that the Nuggets said, I'm not even describing my own thoughts here
that the Nuggets said were the toughest out they had in the West last year.
And so now to come in and you know what, Corinthy Towns has
been chaotic at points, like he's done the thing where he throws the passes
and you have no idea where it's gonna go. Questionable decisions you have,
nas Reed, you've seen him cool off on the offensive end. Guess what
you have, Nique, Alexander Walker? You have after I'm yelling about Jane
McDaniels and then he goes and hits every single two pointer known to man,
creating off the dribble. Shout out to we had a few Timberwolves fans they
I think they commented. Someone added me on Twitter, someone dm me thanking
me for going out to Jane McDaniel's ramp because he clearly heard it and the
podcast the podcast was recorded like before he had that game, so I don't
think he heard it. But I love when fan bases are that self aware.
It's all I'm saying. So that was really super cool. But you
have Anthony Edwards who is just this like he is on the court, he
is just it, someone who can go toe to toe at both ends with
Kevin Durant and Devin Booker and emerge as the one that looks better off for
it. You have Rudy Gobert, who still moving as well as I've ever
seen him. But oh it's Rudy wasn't a liability ever in the playoffs so
much is he just had no perimeter defensive talent around him. Now you give
him a bunch of perimeter defensive talent around him, and look at what's happening.
And so the Wolves are huge winners here. And I'll also say this
is why too, not just because like in theory, the third place team
shouldn't gain anything from beating the sixth place team, just emotionally or any equity
there. But here's what's going on in the background, the battle for control
of the franchise, and then this financial sustainability of the cores that is going
to be an issue depending on how that plays out, or an issue regardless.
People want to continue talking about that. And here are the wolves,
and by the way, we've talked about the supertask concerns with them. So
I'm not excluding us from maybe being part of the problem. We haven't focused
on it, I don't think as much as others. So that stuff is
happening and you're just coming out and taking it like that could that's a legitimate
distraction to me if you're like if I'm if someone was if we had a
producer who was talking about maybe like, oh, can we afford both DA
grant and with your salary demands when you poop pooed that eighty million dollar contractor
probably not? Probably so I'd be you know, I'd have an existential crisis
if like, there's just we're still tasked with doing the job, but you
know that it could be. I get that it's happening at a scale where
it's not as mission critical as someone's necessarily livelihood. But they're just taking care
of business here, and I think they're massive winners through it. On also
a big aside, we're not a side winer, but like Tim Connelly having
the option of like getting out of his deal with like he's a huge winner
now because look what he did with this roster, and he doesn't he has
like phantom equity in the team. That was the other report that came out,
so he might not actually have like a ton of equity, so he
might be more willing to leave, which gives him leverage if they want to
keep him around. So I think the Timberwolves, though immediately just looking at
this postseason trip, are huge winners. I think that's right. I would
say too, like what's happened in these first two games and the way the
Wolves have looked and the way that like none of what we sort of priced
into a Sun's potential upset has happened really makes me look it's it's so easy
in any series, like when the first couple of games go a certain way
to just be like every prior I had is clearly wrong and like none of
that was gonna hold it. But like for this series in particular, I
think you're right that it's just like it got overthought, and not just by
us, but by like everybody, because well, do you pick? Did
you pick the Sons? I think I picked the Sons? No, you
picked the Sons. I picked the Timberwolves. And I think, out,
you're fine then, because they're probably gonna win in four. You're a better
shape than I am. But for me and for everybody else and the odds
makers that made the Sun's favorites, it's just like, maybe just trust the
bigger sample, maybe maybe just don't overthink the matchups and all this other stuff.
Now, next year probably will have a situation where the reverse will be
true, and we all we didn't think hard enough about the matchups and how
this team is good at X and the other team is bad at why and
that means they can't you know, like it'll flip. But for now,
it just feels like we overthought, Like why are we taking a lower seed
over a Wolve's team that was just better all year and just didn't have the
lows. So I want to talk about the Suns a little bit more.
I know we're kind of picking on them, but like, let me,
let me start with a question the Sun's in Mattishbia is specifically the Sun's owner
is going to come out of this, I think looking like one of our
postseason losers. When you think about like the example of Man, do you
remember when they put this team together, like how bad it seemed at the
time and how catastrophic the downstream effects were going to be, Like what do
you have a go to example? I can give you mine that I like
you and that a lot of people kind of like pull to mind when trying
to talk about like what a catastrophe that whole like team building era was like
I go, I go, like the Brooklyn Nets when they traded for Garnett
and Pierce and Darren Williams and like gave up their draft future for a bunch
of old guys that like you know, and then just set the team back
for years and years until they just landed Superstar. Do you know what I
mean? Like, do you have another example of that that comes to mind?
No? I mean, like there's smaller scale stuff like I still want
a book to be published on the Carl Carmelo Anthony trade negotiations in twenty eleven,
where the mix just kept throwing stuff at the Nuggets, even though Mellow
didn't want to go anywhere, yeah, other than them, But like,
no, I don't think on I'm trying to. I mean because even the
Nets when they got the like the way that ended with Kyrie, Durant and
hard and that was different because one, they were able to recoup value on
two of those guys on the way out. And also they didn't have to
give up a ton to get Kyrie and Kevin Durant in like it was cap
space and they were able to keep like Caro Slvert and Jared Allen were still
on that team when they signed those guys. So so I think you're gonna
have one soon because you're gonna reference the Suns that we're currently watching as that
team. This is this is not new information. You know this, everybody
else knows this. To put this roster together, they grossly overpaid for Kevin
Durant, gave up all all these picks McHale, Bridges, Cam Johnson,
this, that, and the other. They are the only team willing to
take on Bradley bial so they give up all the rest of their swaps and
they take on this contract that still I think is among the worst in the
league. Just because of the note trade and because of the money left,
and because of the type of player that Bill is at the stage of his
career. They don't control a draft pick till twenty thirty one. They are
in the Super Tax, they don't have the ability. They're going to be
heavily restricted by like all of the new teeth that come in with second Apron
teams in terms of like who you can and can't trade, whether you can
aggregate salaries, like all these things are going to further hinder them building rosters.
That's part of the reason I think Grayson Allen got that extension, and
it's like, well, we don't have resources to do anything else, so
we got to just keep this guy. And maybe they do that with some
other players with extensions, but like there aren't any outs here. Things look
really bad two games into this series. If you're saying it'll be fine next
year, when Kevin Durant is a year older and Bradley bial is a year
older and you don't have the means to bring in the type of supplementary talent
you need to avoid what's happening here. And even if you do, it's
also possible that these three players just don't make sense together in the biggest games.
So like this all happened, Dan, They were in the finals in
twenty twenty one, they won sixty two sixty four games in twenty two,
and then Ishbia kind of takes official control at the twenty three trade deadline,
and now look, and now here's where we are. Like Devin Booker is
like the only guy left from those good teams. Maybe you had to break
them up. Maybe nobody was listening to Monti Williams anymore. Maybe you don't
want to hang on to Chris Paul. Maybe DeAndre Ayden is not someone you
build around. But to go from that to this and then looking at the
next seven eight years and like seeing no light at the end of the tunnel
other than we trade Devin Booker and get a bunch of picks back at some
point, like this is gonna I think this is gonna be one of the
most like most cited examples of like how an ownership group comes in and like
can just wreck a team with short sighted moves and like try to make splashes
and not thinking about like well, how do other smart teams operate? Should
we do that? No? No, no, We're gonna do this,
and here's where we are, Like, I think the Sons are going to
be that example going forward. Uh, I think you're right because I would
even get and I think he was like pinpointed exactly because I've seen the baits
about would you rather have use of Nurturic or DeAndre Ayton right now? And
it's well, you got Grace and Allen as part of that trade, so
and I know he's injured, but and I've seen the whole like, well,
if this wasn't with like the Bradley Beal stuff, the issue was the
Kevin Durant trade, right, that is on that the whole time. You've
been right about that all along. Just would I have done it? Would
I have traded for Kevin Durant? The answers fuck yes. Now the Sounds
were negotiating against themselves at one point. Would I have done what they did?
I would like to think no, and I'm pretty certain that I would
have said no. But like that is what this is, that's gonna be
the genesis of everything. You could point to this stuff. Well, they
didn't get as much traction out of the minimums as they needed to, And
it's like, well, do you know why they needed so much much run
from the minimums because this is decision situation they put themselves in. And I
think I'm totally on board with you. I tend to see where it's like,
well, let's just see because I really believe that. Now here's some
things that I think you I'm just adding to what you said. Your pigeonholed
because it's Bradley Beal's trade value is nuked because of the no trade clause.
Forget about the money, forget about yea, there's a world where Bradley Beal
is still an All Star. There's there's a world where but he has a
no trade clause and he makes a ton of money. And then it's Kevin
Randswer requested trades before. Why why would this stop him now? And you
mentioned the Devin Booker stuff. At what point if they get if they don't
come back in this first round series, ify don't even make it a fight.
He has so much time left on his deal. I wouldn't expect it.
What does he become the guy who he's just watched that core that was
around him, McHale Bridges, Cam Johnson, DeAndre Ayton, even Chris Paul
if you want to count him just gone, just absolutely gone. And he's
gonna be sitting here realizing how barren they are, knowing that the he's going
to be viewed as at least tied to playing in meaningful games and potentially winning
them. At what point does he just ask for out forget about Kevin Ram
but like he is the best player and most important player on their team.
I do believe that this is headed towards disaster for sure. And like just
to I know, I tagged Ishbia here at just what you said about like
would I have done it for the price to talking about the Durant trade?
Probably not. You know who else probably wouldn't have done it. Based on
all the reporting James Jones, like it was like they kept coming back and
Ishbia kept saying, like do it, do it? Do it? That's
what all the reporting says, is like this was not a true The Durant
trade was not one that Phoenix's like actual basketball people thought was like worthwhile in
terms of the assets they were giving up. And then ownership has the final
say, and ownership pushed that trade through. And I think that the fact
that his thumb print is his fingerprints are on that deal just and that's I
think we agree that that was kind of the the Beal thing is so bad,
but like that was just swaps and you're just stuck with a bad contract,
Like the price you paid for Durant is the reason you don't have outs
anymore. So I think that does just fall at ownership's feet. And so
I mean, I just can't get over and I want to go back now
and read about like how toxic or how bad was it at the end of
that last run with the previous cores, because like they had the ugly playoff
bow out, and it's just like, what if they just kind of tweaked
instead of going you know, full full full restart with with a bunch of
new guys I don't know, or if they how about this, what if
you held the line in talks with the Nets a fine hold on to Kevin
Durrant until the off season, then right, he still wants to come to
Phoenix. Yeah, someone's blinking. I mean maybe May yeah, maybe Brooklyn
just blinks. We don't want to go through a full year with this with
this guy being unhappy. It's totally possible. We got to get off the
sun though, you gotta you gotta take us somewhere else. I'll take us
to Indiana, where I think Pascal Siakam is just a major winner here.
He has been through two games versus the Bucks, the best player on the
Pacers, and he's at like the numbers. And I know it's only two
games with thirty six point five points, twelve rebounds, four and a half
assists, sixty seven point five percent shooting on twos, and I'm not they're
not. These are not layups and just like open space drives, he's hit
some turnarounds. He's just scored in traffic. He's shooting fifty percent from deep,
only four of eight. I think more important, though, well,
there's two things. Is the manner that in which he's playing, this way,
where it's operating is both a co star and a lifeline, depending almost
on the possession. So Tyree's Haliburton still a tone center on offense, and
then Siakam is just going to continue to carry it. And yet he's also
kind of distinguishing when to adjust, if not overhauled entirely in the half court
wherever necessary. Striking that balance is so hard to do, and it's even
harder to maintain when you're so critical to what your team's doing defensively, I
recognize Giannis isn't in this series. I question how much time he'd be the
primary defender on him anyway, But like they turned to him in game two
specifically, like, hey, we need someone to kind of like go after
Dame for a minute. And he did it. And so I'm looking at
this and this is all happening in advance. There's there's two things that's sent
out here let's focus on in advance of free agency. There's he's thirty years
old. And there's something to be said about when the team that knows the
most about you in the Raptors, that wanted a high level with you,
and I know he wasn't this player when they won the championship in twenty nineteen,
deciding that you weren't worth paying as sours. Things got behind the scene.
That seems to be where things went wrong, as they decided we don't
want to pay Pascal Siakam Maxi money. And now he's playing like this.
So he's going to get to free agency and yes, his age is not
going to change, be weird if it did. And he's going to oh,
he's getting younger. Holy shit, he'll be eligible with the Pacers to
sign a four year one hundred and eighty nine point five million dollar max or
five year two hundred and forty five point three million I think max it is.
I would be shocked at this point if he doesn't get the four year
full vote, I would be my fearly. If it's close, we quibble
over dollars and cents there the decimals, I'd be pretty shocked, though,
I'd be shocked to be left. And that was always kind of the implication
of well, Indiana gave up three first round picks to get him, which
isn't nothing. And that's the other thing here, which it makes the Pacers
winners by extension, but also siak him as well. The idea of trading
for him has just been validated because you've needed to if you were gonna get
rid of Buddy Healed, you need to experiment with Tyr's Haliburton off the ball,
and he's just gonna need some offensive alleviation in general, as we've kind
of seen time and time again. And so you go out and you get
this guy who's giving you exactly what you need, and it gives you.
It's not just about this postseason run. I know he's getting older, but
it's as you project forward to the version of the Pacers that is not just
this darling irritant but a mainstay contender near the top of the East. Like
the blueprint is now laid. You have the two guys around which to flesh
out the rest of your roster moving forward. And I understand Tyres Halbert is
the single biggest driving force of that, but now you just he established Tyres
Halbert established that last year, so a year ago, eighteen months ago,
and now you've already found the second guy. Like to have that groundwork laid,
that is huge. And the fact that Siakam's doing it again. I
know Giannis isn't playing like this is real shit, Like this is this is
real shit, and the stuff he's doing I can't. And Samson Fok actually
wrote a fantastic piece for Basketball. She wrote, go check that out about
what he did, and I think it was Game two specifically, But like
watching him this series, seeing this type of shots he's hit, even the
passes that he sprayed out on the move, This is a massive win for
seat because if there is any doubt and I'll boil it down to this before
I throw it to you. If there was any doubt that this guy's a
max player in the NBA, it should be gone by now. And I
get you want to quibble about what's the back end of that deal gonna look?
Like, I'll go as far as this. I feel comfortable with the
first three years of wherever deal he's gonna sign, and that's at least sixty
percent of the contract, which which like is all you should really because every
anytime someone's even in like their late twenties, the back end of the deal
is always kind of iffy, and you're just that's just like a it's priced
in. It's just that's just what it's gonna be. You know how many
It's rare for a guy his age to sign a deal. And like at
the end of I'm trying to think of who examples would even be, Like
I guess Kyle Lowry or like someone like that that like in their early to
mid thirties, like still is just out there, like he's gonna get a
deal that pays him as much or more annually than the one he just finished.
Like that's just how it is. And really, like holiday apparently jew
holiday a million dollar deal till he's fifty, it seems like. But for
the Pacers specifically, like Hellburn's quite a bit younger than than Siakam, So
like maybe if you're really hypercritical of Siakam as a second guy, it's like,
oh, it's too far apart the timeline. It's like, no,
no, you need someone likes Siakam. Or let's just say you need Siakam
for like the next two three years, right, and then you can just
rejigger the like line up around Haliburton as he gets into his mid late twenties,
like you just you need you need Siakam now, like this is the
right piece for right now. And like nothing's promised beyond two or three years
for any team anyway, so like who who cares? So I do think
I don't think he's getting the five year just because Indiana doesn't have to do
it, but they do just have to go max out the four year because
it's like eight what is it, like nine million more total? Then another
team can give him on a four year deal, So you can't you can't
mess around there. You just have to immediately go full four year max.
And just like for him taking a deal from somebody else is just like leaving
money on the table, which even if he's not super happy about not getting
the five years, like he's getting the most he can possibly get. So
maybe there's like somewhere is he signing well below the max but it's over five
years so it's more guaranteed money, but the annual values lower. Yeah,
by the way, very clear. The other thing that this is do is
kind of proving that when you go out and kind of find because they still
need like a wing that's not Aarony Smith. Maybe someone whould play Whitney Smith
like Siakam just kind of reinforce like, oh that wing needs minimal creation talent.
Yeah, I'd do right. All right, I'm gonna pick a winner
here too. My winner is Luka Doncic, mainly because now I know,
like so mainly because of his game two defensive performance, Like that's a game
that Dallas wins by three to get a I mean, was more than actus.
Paul George hit a late three that made it look even closer than it
was, but gets a split in LA, which, like I picked the
maps to win this series. I was feeling real nervous after game one.
I think everybody was really down on how Dallas played in that game. Don
just played awesome defense. Tim McMahon tweeted out a stat just about like everybody
went over other than James Harden made one shot against Luka Doncic in individual defense,
held held his held his match to two of seventeen. Now, people
that watch the MAVs and know what Luca's limitations are and or not, we'll
say, like he's actually always been like pretty good or not always, but
has been pretty good in isolation, Like he can move his feet enough,
he's really strong, like you don't you know, He's not an easy guy
to score on per se. So the fact that he's holding his Clipper matchups
to like ridiculously low shooting percentages because they're attacking him is like, well,
he could always do that. I gotta push back, Like every team's approach
is to go at Luca as much as possible. Let's wear him out,
Let's at least just make him move and work, because Dallas loves to just
stash him on guys that don't move. And like the if you look at
b Ball Index, they have like these player cards you can put together and
categories every category you can imagine, it will give you a percentile letter grade.
Luca's like Miles run on defense is like in the first percentile, Like
he just doesn't move. So to hold up physically and really perform defensively answers
a lot of questions, albeit in just one game, but like, for
how long was the story on him? He wears down within games, he
wears down within weeks, within months, within seasons, within series, Like
he physically doesn't hold up to bring it in game two and get that split.
Not saying he's going to be able to do it on both ends every
game, but like if he can summon that level of defensive competitiveness like a
couple times in a series, that might be all it takes. Like and
to get that game in La I think is indicative of that, because now
you go back to Dallas, maybe you get a couple there and you're you're
just in the driver's seat, even if Luca doesn't hold hold this level,
just to do it when he needed to, and in a way that was
like really conspicuous, Like you couldn't watch that game and say and like not
notice how much he was competing. I think it's it's weird, like the
full like referendum on Luka Doncic, like defensive ability is like it's not it's
not done yet, but this is this is a question answered. I feel
like at least in a small way, so that that was a big positive
for me. It feels like also, so he's doing all this while also
having just played faster this year and played differently, and so we just can
take used to answer these questions and it's creating further separation from Trey Young,
who he's already better. Then we still have the questions about Trey Young,
where how can can he fit better into the larger context of a team,
And Luka Doncic is proving that he can while also still being kind of the
central point of everything. And I think I saw some of the halftime show
of that game was saying that there was too much Luca and like he needs
to play off the ball more, and it's like it's it's not necessarily.
First of all, he did this year, but it's not necessarily that.
It's the fact that he plays at different cadences. And then you mentioned the
defensive stuff. Yeah, he's like a he's a huge like winner in all
of this and like the MAVs kind of come off looking like winners in general
too. We'd see how the series ends, but will you know, with
the work that PJ. Washington has done for them, and then like the
gaffer keeps getting injured every single game, I don't know what's up with that.
But were they smart too? We've had this debate over and over again.
It seems like they were smart to make those midseason trades, but we've
still made them Looking ahead up the way Luka is playing though, like it
it's both it gives you confidence and then it also rattles you because it's,
well, this dude's like so good, Like this stuff needs to happen now,
and now you can't if they did lose this series or if they eventually
bow out in the playoffs. I feel like it's overwhelming clear that it's not
gonna be like, man, his play style just the grades and it's only
gonna get you. So he's not even gonna be I'm never saying he would
have been, but like it's just very clear that he is not going to
be a part of any issue. Maybe game to game, the defense will
fluctuate. He might complain a little bit more but I'm absolutely with you on
that. Yeah, so let's do a loser. Who do I got here?
Oh? Man, we have to let me. Let's do a quick
loser. I'm buddy. Healed averaging before Game three a whopping fewer than thirteen
minutes per game, and he was traded from the Pacers because he wanted a
bigger role long term and the big ass bag that comes with it. Then
the Sixers acquired him because I get it, the cost was low enough he
fits into their cap space plan, but also presumably so that he could open
up the floor for Tyrese Maxi and a healthy Joel Embiid and then maybe establish
himself as someone worth keeping around long term, faster over to the playoffs.
And he's look his minutes fluctuated with the Sixers, but like this is a
different level of its borderline or rature. He's logging fewer than thirty minutes per
game, as I said, and he's not giving Nick Nurse a reason to
play him more. He's what is he two of six from three in this
series, so he's not taking shots at a high volume. And now there's
a deal. There's always a defensive trade off to playing Beal that the Sixers
specifically are no longer built to cover up when you won have Jowell and been
playing on one leg and to know the Anthony Melton and so you're sitting here
and someone is gonna pay Buddy Heieald Anyway, he's a career forty percent shooter
from deep on over seven and a half attempts per game, that volume in
efficiency, it sells. But he's thirty one and he's gonna be looking for
what will probably be his last long term deal, and long term deals getting
harder to secure as non stars, it feels like. And to now be
at a point where you're watching the Sixers and you're saying, well, Kelly
Oubrey and thirty eight year old Kyle Lowry and even the shell of Tobias Harris
are more valuable at both ends than Buddy held right now. Just it's it's
a mini subplot to this. Maybe the Sixers just aren't invested in him working
through it because they know he's not gonna stick around. But like interesting to
go from how important he was with the Pacers. Remember were of part of
the reason that Tobias Tobias Harris, that Tyres Haliburton was struggling. Was they
missed Buddy Healed and like to just be sitting on the Sixers mention this playoff
series with the Knicks for most of the game. Yeah, it's it's funny,
like it's almost one of those situations where it seemed it was too easy.
It was too easy to say like, oh my god, Buddy Healed
with Joel Embiid getting doubled all the time, just running around loose, like
imagine, it's gonna be perfect, like what could go wrong. It's gonna
be the ideal fit. It's like, I guess it's just not that simple
son time times. And the other weird thing is it's like it's not like
the Sixers and Embiid and Maxi and I guess Harris and some of the other
guys are like unfamiliar with a Buddyheel type because JJ Reddick was there for several
years and it's like, I mean, Reddick had much more of a like
inside the Arc game, I guess, like with the handoff stuff with Embiid,
But like they're they should feel pretty comfortable with a guy with just an
ace shooter flying around off pin downs and stuff like it's not like a new
concept, and Nick Nurse has played with, as you know, fashioned all
kinds of different offenses and has tinkered very successfully over his career. So it's
like, I just don't understand why he's not having as big of a role.
But I think that's interesting what you just said of like maybe because they've
already decided like he's not going to be a big part of the future,
they're just like, what's the point of using him? And maybe I don't
know, maybe he is like a unique enough player that it's hard to hard
to like figure out where he likes to get the ball and how to cover
for him defensively and all. Well, clearly he just didn't practice with Embid
ever because of the NBA, and then you're also in the postseason crucible,
so I don't know how much of that is a factor. But either way,
and it's not I don't I think he's someone's gonna pay him. He's
a he's an incredibly talented shooter. But that's not ideal to go from thinking
like, you know, the grass isn't always greener type cliche right now,
because it's you had like a certain maybe the people didn't fully appreciate how important
you were to the Pacers, and the Pacers are doing things right now without
him, but it took them so long to kind of find themselves without him
that it's, I would say, to less than ideal development for him as
he's preparing to enter free agency. Cost it's costing him money for sure.
I have a small I don't have any like big picture ones anymore, but
I have a small one that I just feel like we have to talk about
a small winner here. Did Miami Heat won a game against the Celtics?
And I know it happened because they shot four trillion threes and made two trillion
threes, uh, and just played some weird zone that Boston seemingly equipped to
handle at times, though that should have been seen. No team that I
still view as a massive, prohibitive underdog makes me think just a little bit
about like, oh, are they gonna do this than the Heat? Right?
It's like we joke all the time about we can't rule them out,
they can't be killed all this other stuff. It's like, even though I
had no confidence whatsoever and still have no confidence that Miami can win this series
or even like make it competitive, just the fact that they won a game
gives me just like just enough doubt. And I can't think of a better
testament to Eric S. Bolstra and the whole hashtag geek culture thing than that
feeling, than a feeling where it's just like, oh, no, are
they going to do this? They're not. They're not, They're not.
But it's but no other team winning a single game can make you question yourself
like the Heat can. That's why they it's small time winners. I'm gonna
take it a step further because I had them as a winner too. They're
big time winners here. They have people talking about, well, it's clear
that the Blazers should have accepted their package for Dame. Look at what Nikola
Yovich is doing on defense as a passer. Look at the game that Tyler
Hero just had. I want to ask you about Eric Bolster specifically though,
because the guy is like a mad scientist when it comes to this stuff,
knowing how to use Nikola Jovic, like just knowing like kind of the right
levers to pull there and grace from the What's in a Game podcast. I
pointed this out on Twitter that you know, you mentioned the Heat and the
way they were defending, but like Boston has not been like one of the
better, just like from that specific where most of their jumpers came and missed
from inside the arc. They've been like among the top ten offenses in the
league, one of the worst from those areas anyway. And so it's just
like these genius shit from Eric Spoulstra do you sort of get vibes of just
kind of like remember how Tim Duncan is universally considered like maybe one of the
three to five best defenders of all time, but never won Defensive Player of
the Year. And Eric Felsher is just universally considered the best coach in the
NBA, but he's never won Coach of the Year. That's just like,
it feels like something weird like that is sort of at play here. But
the heat become winners because Eric Swellscer exists, but also because it's like did
most people even like people are worried about the Celtics after Game two, even
if you thought that heat would steal a game, you probably thought it would
come in Miami. Would they get lucky and Jimmy Butler would play to have
that type of game so early in the series, and to like what Bam
was doing from mid range. And then also I think the bigger thing,
maybe the biggest thing was just yeah, okay, Boston will play better on
offense, but they've had bogged down issues before, and the Heat were absolutely
playing a role in the types of shots they were coaxing or forcing the Celtics
into. They did that in Game two, Like so it's like, now
you have the Celtics on til for even if you lose this series four to
one, it was one to one at some point, like you went back
to Miami having stolen home, they're massive winners. To me, it's the
alien shit at play all over again. It is. I feel like it's
more panic inducing because of the nature of Game two's win because it came with
like a three point barrage that like the Heat just their offense sucked all year.
They just they don't have Jimmy Butler to create shots, and they didn't
take or make a lot of threes in general. Like it's almost like you
it's panic inducing because it like it's like, well, this is just chaos
now because none of our assumptions about this series were correct. If they're gonna
win a game that way, like then it's like, well, what possible
use was there and trying to forecast this series because obviously we don't have any
idea about what they're willing to do or what they can do to be successful.
It's like you, I don't know. It's like I don't know anything
about MMA. But it's like if you went into a fight knowing a guy
was a really good boxer, and you prepped the whole time to fight a
boxer and then he just like took you to the ground in the first like
five seconds. You're like, what is this. I'm not prepared for this.
This is uncomfortable. I don't have a game plan. Like the Heat
can't make twenty three out of forty three from deep in every game, but
doing it once just throws everything off its axis. And now it's like,
well, what are they going to do in game three? Like play four
corners offense for the whole game? Like are they gonna like are they gonna
do the vivekron a DV thing and like leave someone down the other end of
the floor and cherry pick like anything is on the table. If the Heat
can beat the Celtics by shooting and making more threes, like that's just it
upends everything, and that's why that is why I think it's so disruptive.
Well, what's also disruptive is that they so they have the personnel to Phoenix
probably wishes that they could make the active decision just to take oh we want
to shoot more threes, and our players will actually do it, right,
So the Heat having that personnel for them to actually do it. But then
that person did you see that Duncan Robinson was defending his ass off yea in
that game, And so it's just I first of all the other thing too,
you know who's a winner and he's always a winner. Caleb Martin's free
agency just continues to Oh boy, watching game one, watching KYLEB. Martin
shoot on the on the way down, like every time, it's like that
guy with the like spasmodic like leg kick on on his threes. It's like
I was thinking, like that guy's never gonna make another shot in his life.
It's not possible. And then in game two it's just like that guy's
never gonna miss another show. Like good. Caleb Martin completely changes everything about
the Heat because he's like the defensive intensity and the willingness to push the ball
and like just all the the way he's like, I don't know, it's
like when he's sliding into like a help rotation, it's like he's on hot
coals. His feet are like moving so quickly. The good version of him
changes everything. But like, I can't believe he looked so bad to me
in the first game, and then the second game it just sees a different
person. I don't know what the Heat are doing. I don't know how
they get these performances out of these guys. Yeah there, if they go
up two to one, could you imagine just emergency pod, emergency pod if
they go out, I'm gonna hold you to that. Okay, all right,
if they when did they play? Is it Saturday? Eggs? Doesn't
matter, It doesn't matter. So I keep feeling like I'm negative Nancy here.
But so I'll go to a loser this one, and well, how
about a combination winner and loser? Okay, so the Thunder winners because this
idea that like Jonas Valentudis can punish them on the offensive glass and like New
Orleans, I feel like might have been a compelling matchup of Zion. We're
healthy, hot take, but just like they're just handling it it's they've turned
yonas Valentutis into even more of a defensive liability. And I like this team
when you look like Jade, I mean, Shay is Shay but Jay,
I don't know what else to say, Shay is sha check calling him.
That team is just so connected to Like that's another one where if you had
to give out, like the Synergy Award, well, actually, I don't
know. The Nuggets might have it in the West, the Knicks definitely have
it in the East. But anyway, they're they're just I think they've reinforced
that like, Okay, like maybe experience might matter once you get to the
finals or something, but like, this is a team that's a threat to
beat anyone in the West, including the Nuggets. I wouldn't pick them to
do it, but they're just the winner for kind of reiterating that, well,
yeah, fuck, we are amazing the case of just come in to
fend his butt off whenever we want, We're gonna we're gonna push that button
when we need to, I will say, and this is it's a stretch
if you're basing this off of just one game, which I am not.
Josh Getty is a loser and I know he played better in Game two,
but that game was just it was superficially not a blowout at one point and
then it just turned it like the devolved into one. My point is there
was zero High States minute played in game two. In Game one, seven
players for the thunder logged crunch time minutes. Josh Gitty was not one of
them. He was out basically the entire fourth quarter. The Pelicans are guarding
him exactly as you would expect them to guard him when he doesn't have the
ball, which is to say they're not guarding him at all. And he's
two of six from three, so he hasn't made them pay. And I
get there are moments, there are stretches when his live dribble passing the float,
thread of the floater, the decision making there can put defenses on tilt.
He has value. They are just that though they're stretches, they're temporary.
They're a fremle. It's obvious like maybe under a different team where you
give him more control over the ball, he's going to have more intrinsic value
to you. There's no reason to do that on this team because you have
Shay, you have Ja Dubb and I'm looking at this and he's extension eligible
this summer and his place and this this dates back to the regular season.
Mark Deagnold fucked the rent, well fucked it. He fused around, He
fights around with the closing lineups. And I think now you can legitimately make
the case that you're closing a game for matchups. Be damned, grant you
are closing a game. We know Casan Wallace is ahead of you in the
pecking order now of options, probably Jo Else is probably ahead of you,
Isaiah Joe, Yeah, Aaron Wiggins, that's Kendrick Williams out there. I
mean, put big Jalen Williams out there. They're like, yes, you
can get it, you can get get him in there. So I just
feel like he is a very talented basketball player who will probably still get paid.
And we've always kind of said that his future with this team is in
doubt. But Game one drove home. I feel like what the underlying message
has been all along, and that is he has never been on shakier footing
when you're looking at his long term value utility to the Thunder, and the
playoffs were a chance to kind of flip that script. And I will say
this, Wu's make the thumb. This is what makes the Thunder a winner.
They have a lot of playoff basketball left to play because they're really good
and they're gonna make a deep run. But yeah, I have Josh Giddy
as a You can call him a tentative loser if you want, but that's
what he is, then, a tentative loser kind of just like he can
tentatively sometimes hit wide open threes. I just right it doesn't want to shoot
him. I just keep watching the Thunder continue to play him even though it's
diminishing, and think like how good is this team going to be when they
were place that that spot in the starting lineup? Like even if it's like
I don't even mean if it's just Wallace that that eventually takes that spot over,
he's the logical guy. But like what if the what you know,
all we talk about is that all this Trova draft picks they've got to trade,
like they have the assets to go get anybody. Like what happens when
they turned that spot into like a six' nine wing that can do everything?
Like what like, what how good is this team gonna be? Like
if it's a Paul George type or whatever like that. Just it's I mean,
the Thunder are just they could lose their they could lose this series,
and I would still just think of them as like, there's this future is
so bright, it's so bright, like all this is just gravy right now,
which is crazy because they like, why won't they make the conference finals?
To be clear, I don't think that this issue with Josh, and
I'm not you weren't saying this, the issue with Josh Giddy isn't really an
issue for a Thunder. The Thunder, no, specifically Josh Giddy is the
loser here because the Thunder have proven that they don't need him and might be
at this point the more menacing team without him, if you're being brilliant,
like, honestly, you're right, I'm not gonna hedge anymore. The Thunder
going to be a better team without Josh Giddy. Whether that's right now,
fine, make it arguable, Well, task forward two or three years,
like the best version of this team is not going to include Josh. Kidding
No, and I think you're seeing it now where Like I feel like in
a lot of the pre series analysis, you know, how does New Orleans
win this series, Like what are the ways right? And by the way,
should have won game one. Gotta feel like they let Game one get
away. That's like devastating to not get that one. What you would say
is, well, you're gonna have to involve Giddy defensively. You're gonna have
to go at him. You're gonna have to sag like you're gonna have to
sag off him and make him shoot threes and take and make the Thunder,
you know, go away from their normal plan. Not that they would,
but like that's the blueprint you would draw up against the Thunder if you're the
New Orleans, like exploit the weeklink. Giddy's the weeklink on both ends and
if part of the conversation is like maybe they shouldn't do that so that Giddy
stays on the floor like that, Like you don't say that about a lot
of players. It only comes up in playoff series where it's like you've got
to go at the guy, like just enough to get an advantage, but
don't spam it so that they just take him out of the game and put
in caseon Wallace, who's just better, Like you have to like find that
right balance, Like that's pretty that's pretty telling that that was like an often
discussed aspect of this series. Can we do the other side of this series
where I think I'm going to step on a lot of probably what I've iterated
in the past, But the Pelicans are losers and no one expected them to
win this series. I totally get that. But we're now going into their
second actual playoff push of the Zion Williamson era, and he will have appeared
in exactly zero of those games. And now you're at the point where you're
in I don't want to call it a no win situation, you're in an
impossible situation though. Waiting is just no longer like an option because this team
has had multiple chances and it's just never been healthy enough available enough to see
them all together when it matters most. So, now you go into the
offseason and I saw this on Twitter that a lot of people and I don't
disagree with the actual sentiment, but it's when your first reaction is, here's
hoping the Pelicans can diversify and improve the center rotation. No, it's not
like yes, yes, so yes, I agree with you. You know
what they need first a driver of their offense, because you can't rely on
Zion Williamson's body, which, by the way, that's what makes this so
it's both gutting and jarring because Zion was playing the best defense of his career
this season. He was in the best shape of his career. He was
transcendent. He was having one of the best or it's not the single best
performance of his career when he got hurt. But his body just keeps portraying
him. So I'm not blaming him. I saw some people I don't know
if he saw the clip of him yelling. I don't think he was like
being rude. It was like he was like kind of coaching up his teammates
on the sidelines, and I guess somebody should, but like they were just
like, well, I saw the comment saying, well, maybe he should
be healthy enough to This is not a Zion Williams an issue anymore. This
is this dude's body is an anomaly, and it seems like he's done everything
he could. And as the Pelicans, you have to have the self awareness
to say it's like, maybe it comes together for a few seasons, but
we can no longer bank on it, or we can no longer build our
team in the image of this is the only answer. We need a viable
contingency, and that leads into the brandon Ingram discussion to where he's got to
go. You have to upgrade from that spot or if you're gonna keep him
and try to figure that out when you get natural floor general in here.
Fine, but like the biggest issue for the Pelicans now is a creator who
can drive the offense on their own. And yes, preferably work with Zion
Williamson. But like it's it's over, Like you can't you can't sit still.
You're talking about brandon Ingram's next contracts coming up, Trey Murphy's next contract
is coming up. You got lucky on the Herb Jones deal. If you
want to keep Jonis Valenciunis, or if you want to pay somebody, or
if you want to like you have tax concerns already, and this is not
a team. I know they're fans. Like, well, they said that
they'll pay the tax. I'll believe it when I see it. That's fine,
but you need to make this call, which maybe you always needed to
make it, but it would be a lot easier, more palatable to make
the call to go the nuclear route or decide we have to you're one time
deviating from brandon Ingram and also the Zion It point model or Zion as lifeline
model, which is very uncomfortable when you've never seen those two an action together
in the playoffs. But you have to do it now. It's just you
can't. And this was you know, I you leave open the idea because
they almost won Game one and they won it, and like, if they
won this series, then it's, oh, there's time for him to come
back. Who knows if he actually would have that's not happening. Now you're
gonna lose this series. Another season is gonna be over. You've yet to
finish in the top six during the Zion Williamson era and now you have to
move on from so many different aspects of it. And it just it sucks
because like you never got to see it all in full. But that's that
the I'll phrase it like this. The clarity for the Pelicans is in the
absence of it with their current nucleus, and that's just the point that they're
at. Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna I can't get behind what
you're saying about brandon Ingram not quite being up for it because I've only ever
said good things. But do you know it's like a bit now where like
everything I say about brandon Ingram is at best like a backhanded compliment. Yes,
I posted a meme about it in discord. Yeah, no, it's
my I didn't ever think this would be like my one of my things because
I think, like what, I don't know, brandon Ingram is a eighty
fifth percentile NBA player, Like I thought you were going to say, like
a top eighty five, no, no, whatever, top forty maybe something
like that, like with him, and I don't know how much of this
is necessarily him, but like there's a different if you look at other stars.
You phrased it on the last podcast when you said that what he does
is hit these tough shots. He makes bad shots he's really good at,
but he really gets them in one way where it's like there's not necessarily different
levels to his scoring. He's not taking more three point attempts or he never
is taking enough for a long enough stretch, and then like you're not and
I don't This might be a Willie Green thing, a Pelicans thing, but
like you can't run things with him away from the ball to free him up
or try different things with him as the decoy. And it's just you can't
that can't be your second best player when Zion is your first best player.
Like that's just the reality of this situation, and you just have more sensible
alternative, Like I think Trey Murphy and Herb Jones. I know Shaman Dua
has said this in the past. I don't know if he still thinks so,
but like those are your guys, Like I mean, obviously Zion is
your guy, but you've made I believe the correct points about like you cannot
build a firm foundation with Zion, Like it's just always gonna be a flimsy
operation if he is like the thing that's holding everything up with Like Murphy and
Jones are like give those guys forty minutes every night in any playoff series,
Like they those guys are out out there like locks, like no problem and
and both have upside, both have improved, both will continue to improve.
I don't know if either of them is going to be an All Star,
but Herb is obviously like one of the best defensive players in the world,
and Murphy just is the perfect role player as long as you don't need him
to dribble. Maybe he learns to dribble, like that's like he's he's not
like he's thirty. Maybe you don't like kind of plant him still so often
when shooters in the NBA, just like on the Ingram thing, whatever else
you can get for Ingram great because you have those two guys that are going
to play the same position like that, you're you're set there. They make
more sense with Zion anyway. So so just like you're ready to call and
I can set, you're ready to call. In the tray Young trades like
these are my These are my two things butting up against each other. I
want to trade brandon Ingram and I don't want Trey Young on my team.
I don't know how to answer a better fit for this team brand Ingram or
Tray Young. Oh, Trey Young, that's easy, but but I still
don't like it. Do you have any you have another winner? Together?
Exhausted my supply of winners and losers, I have I have a quick winner,
okay, Maleakue Monk because the Orlando Magic or exactly who we thought they
were. Yeah, and they need cap flock shooters plural and helpfully creators.
I don't view Monk as a creator. I mean a shooter, excuse me,
like a capslock shooter, but relative to what the Magic have because like
even Cole Anthony has not been like they're not playing him a ton in this
series against the Calves. Yeah, like they're a team, they're gonna they
can have caps space, Like they're just gonna go out and pay the league
Monk because he makes a lot of sense there. This is more of a
commentary on the Magic to where it's sort of like they're not losers or winners
because they this is there, like this is of course first time in the
playoffs, but they've reached the playoffs and everything that's wrong with them is exactly
what you would expect to be wrong. Maybe they need to drop the starting
Jonathan Isaac Bitt too is something that they should probably look into. Uh,
But Malik Monk comes out as a winner because he's all of a sudden,
like the player everyone's identifies, Like, oh, the Magic just need to
pay that dude. I kind of disagree. I think they need to go
tray for Anfrey Simon, but he's gonna end up being a winner. Yeah,
No, I think that's right, I like, I mean, maybe
you make the Kings a loser because they just like four years seventy eight is
not gonna be enough and that's the most they can pay Monk, And like
you're right about he's not a like to use your term, a capslock shooter,
but teams are gonna guard him like he's not gonna get the Oh thank
god. It's like Cole Anthony has taking an open three successful defensive possession.
We're good with that. Like Monk is gonna be true. Plus, Monk's
gonna be on the ball a ton wherever he lands. I assume, like
I'll be fascinated to see if a team kind of fancies him as like I
don't know, you wouldn't start him at point guard, but like he's what
he showed with the Kings this year suggests like you could. You could spend
a lot of time with Malik Monk as your main creator and look pretty good
offensively. So yeah, I think if especially if like Paalo Bang Carrol's on
her, they could start shooting area. It depends on the true because you're
gonna start Palo and Franz and I would say a real let's say Wendell Carter
Junior. And then if you're gonna start Suggs, Sugs and Monk, you're
good. Like I'm saying you could start Monk, and that that scenario would
be that makes just a ton of sense. I don't love for the money
he would cost. I would just prefer Monk is the better passer, especially
going downhill. But like Anthony Simon's is just the level of shot maker that
and they're in a situation where they might not have they get both. They
just trade for Simons haveing a league Monk on their team. That's fine too,
sure, Yeah, well, I mean like, based on how they've
scored in this playoff series and how they scored all year, you probably do
need more than just one of those guys. If you're gonna really amp up
the scoring. The other quick winner might be or the like is Darius Garland
and the Calves a quick winner here. They're taking care of business against the
Magic Garius Garland looks okay? Or are you? Are you still? I
mean what, we definitely had some questions about the Calves. I wonder if
just like I'm gonna need to see Cleveland perform against another team just because Orlando's
weaknesses are so pronounced that, like in the playoffs, you don't really know
what you're learning other than like we're I don't think we're learning anything. We
didn't know like you said about Orlando, and I'm not sure we've learned anything
yet. For so about the Calves, just because when a team can't score,
there's just like so many easy ways to guard them. I don't know.
I don't know if you're not the Calves are not really having to strain
themselves like tactically or personnel wise. Yet Okay, I have one more too,
and I was gonna should like shelf this take for a minute. Are
you getting, like, I don't know, like dynastics spursyan vibes from the
Denver Nuggets at all when you watch them. So here's my thing. I'm
like, I don't even want to unbottle this because I feel like I'm gonna
end up it out like this might be too Yokic centric. And I don't
mean to insult Jamal Murray, who's one of just I guess, the most
proven playoff performers in the game at this point. But look at where the
Nuggets kind of are, and like you kind of look at teams that have
reached this level where we think that they have a chance of repeating. Has
there ever been like a larger gap between the best player and then sort of
the second best player. And I'm using like maybe the Spurs were a bad
example because even they were all more of a collective at that point where it
wasn't Tim Duncan wasn't you know, the post twenty ten Spurs, like Tim
Duncan wasn't the fifth best player in the NBA or whatever it is. But
you look at the Nuggets and how they play collectively, and it gives me
sort of just like the Spursian vibes. And but they also have this megastar
that maybe the Spurs didn't have. And so I'm just looking at them and
I'm like, they keep this together. What is it that derails them?
Because Murray will keep get Like, no, he's not gonna get anything worse.
And like I said, I'm not trying to denegrate his value, but
look what he just did. Anthony Davis, who's the worst defender in the
league, because he couldn't stop that Murray shot. Really, so I just
I don't know. I don't mean to say the Nuggets are gonna be a
dynasty. But it's not just about going back to back. It's just I
watch them. You see the chemistry, the synergy, the connectivity, the
way that they can flip a switch, try these different things, and now
you have like, oh well, the Christian Brown and Peyton Watson element being
in the pipeline is like gonna be really beneficial. Dude. You just get
like, are we watching something not like sustainably transcendent here that we're not ready
yet to admit because it's only one championship old. I think I wrote after
they won it last year, my take was like this is not going away
for all the reasons you said, Like the superstar they have is like I
don't know, it's easy to say this now and maybe this will be proved
wrong, but he's like who seems more aging proof than Jokic? You know,
Like the counter is like, well, if you don't have a step
to lose, and you do lose that step, it means a ton because
you know, he's just not athletically dominant, but like he's always going to
be big, He's always going to have the same vision, he's always going
to have like he's his command over like the proceedings on the court are on
is only going to improve as he just gets more reps, right, like
we think like maybe this is the peak of like mental basketball processing. It's
like, well, what's he gonna look like three three years from now when
he's just had more I mean so, and like the way that the league,
that the collective party agreement works, like the Nuggets can just keep all
these guys like they like, it's not a situation where if you if you
need to overpay to keep KCP or Aaron Gordon or whatever, like you're gonna
have bird rights on all these guys. You can if they're willing to go
over the cap. Like there's no reason this team should change fundamentally, at
least among its top guys. So like yeah, and the thing is like
the Spurs with Duncan were like three or four different teams over that over the
length of that run, and Duncan was the constant. But like it's and
so looking at that as an example, why can't Jokic be the constant?
And like what like what style of play would not work with Jokic at the
center of it? You know, like, hey, anything is gonna work
if he's there, He'll find the way. He'll find a way, so
you can build it if for whatever reason, some of these core support pieces
change, Like I don't know, none of them have been all stars,
so it's by definition is not going to be that hard to replace some of
them. And if you play differently, then I trust Jokic to figure it
out. So as long as injury doesn't come in or like cheapness from ownership,
Like why why wouldn't the Denver thing just go on for a long time?
Right? Yeah? And it was. It was weird because the Spurs
weren't a perfect analog, maybe because I was focusing too much on the back
end of that sort of run. But like it's almost feel like they're a
blend of like the Kevin, like the the the Dynastic Warriors, and then
like the Spurs at once because you have the megastar at this point. I
know Tim Duncan might have been that at one point, but I'm just like,
if they went back to back titles, the comparison feels like it'll hold
up even more and like that, I don't, I don't, I didn't.
I wanted to wait until least Prob'm just like watching this team and I'm
like, who is stopping this over the next half decade And we know how
team building works. Ownership isn't gonna want to pay as some of these guys
come up on their new deals. But you mentioned it with Jokic still in
his prime, able to optimize everybody, and they have that spursy and thing
to where you know, the Warriors tried the two timeline thing. It ended
up sabotaging the not not sabotaging, but it wasn't able to They didn't sabotage
like the initial timeline, but they didn't prop it up either because they were
focused on the second timelines where they couldn't down things to augment the first one.
And like the Nuggets aren't in that position yet because the age of everyone
and there, so you can juggle the two timelines without and I mean,
this is boiling down to two players unless you think, like Julian Strath or
jail and Pick it is going to like be a huge part of the team
two. I don't. I'm reticent to say anything is sustainable in this league
right now, but I'm just looking at the Nuggets and trying to find the
reason that this thing would bust up, break up, devolve, regress in
the next like three to five years, which is a lifetime in NBA years,
And I can't find it. I mean, there's a reason we've watched
the Celtics win sixty four games and have you know, relative to the rest
of the league, one of the best NET ratings we've ever seen, and
still said, well, yeah, but the Nuggets, it's like, there's
just like there's just something about you know, not every team that wins the
title makes you feel this way. Like some of those Warriors teams were like,
well, this is just this is the real deal, you know,
and and like the Nuggets win last year, people can talk about who they
did and didn't, be like, it just feels like a different type of
championship. It's not a one off situation. You don't have that they have
to me, they have not that same feeling of inevitability as the Warriors,
but there does seem to be inevitable an inevitability to them. That that's those
Spurs teams never felt like they had and so like that's why I was struggled
to making that. But it's just I think as like in terms of the
collective and then like juggling multiple different agendas when it comes to your timeline.
It once, I'm just maybe, I'm maybe, I'm not just what did
I say last time? I'm not? You were You weren't sipping the kool
aid. You were you were dry scooping d scoop, you were mixing.
You weren't even mixing it. You're maybe. I'm dry scooping the nuggets kool
aid and I've dry scooped pre workout before. It is not. I don't
know why people do it. It's not pleasant. I don't understand it at
all. It's I've been I'm dress scooping too, and it's delicious. Like
there's just no the I just can't get past. You don't even have to
think that much beyond like that. Starting five is perfect, Like everything about
it is perfect. All the pieces fit, everybody knows what to do,
everybody's good at the things they're asked to do, and it's just like no
other team is that way, even the Celtics aren't quite that way. It
just didn't feel that way because we have evidence that like that, Bert unhappy
with the Nuggets tick. Sorry buddy, Yeah wow? Is he a Celtics
fan I think he had a bad dog dream. That was Uh was that
Bert's first appearance on the live podcast? Yep, he's right here. He
was sleeping under the desk and he made his presence. Felt shout out to
Bert, who has just one of the best barks in the world. He's
very rattled right now. I didn't realize he was a Celtics fan. I
guess yeah. I love to change that stat padding time. Grant, we
have a couple we have well, we have like a ton of guests of
players obviously, but I also have questions for you that I would like to
see if you could answer correctly. Are you Are you ready? I'm unfamiliar
with this process, but I will do my best. Grant which NBA player
has the higher career scoring high in the NBA playoffs. Wilt Chamberlain or Michael
Jordan. Michael Jordan correct sixty three to fifty six. Jimmy Butler or Donovan
Mitchell. Ooh, I think they both have fifties. I'll say Donovan Mitchell
that is correct fifty seven to fifty six. Charles Barkley or Alan Iverson to
Philly Legends. Barkley correct fifty six to fifty five. Lebron James or Nicole
Jokic. Give me Jokch that is correct. Fifty three to fifty one.
That was a nice by you. I didn't think you're gonna get that one.
Damian Lillard or Jason Tatum. I don't know if Dame's got fifty.
I know Tatum does. I'll go Tatum. That would be wrong. Fifty
five for Damian Lillard, fifty one for Tatum. Kobe Bryant or Dirk Novitzky
Kobe correct fifty to forty eight. Kevin Durant or Russell Westbrook. I'll go
KD. That is incorrect. Russell Westbrook had fifty one. Kd's is fifty.
Devin Booker or Steph Curry. Curry correct fifty to forty seven. Kareem
abdul Jabbar or Hakeem Olajawan. I'll go Hakeem correct forty nine to forty six.
Luka Doncic or John Morant Luca incorrect. John Morant forty seven, Luca
forty six. That hurts. Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady McGrady incorrect. Vince
had fifty McGrady at forty six. Steve Nash or Shaquille O'Neal. This feels
like bait uh. I'm gonna say Steve Nash, but I'm not sure I
believe it. You are correct forty eight to forty six, amazing. James
Harden or Trey Young Harden incorrect? Trey Young had forty eight. James Harden's
career highs forty five. Ray Allen or Paul Pierce. Oh, I'll go
Pierce. That is incorrect. Ray Allen had a fifty one spot. Paul
Pierce topped out at forty six. Oh Giannis attended? Koopo or Derrick Rose
Jannis correct fifty to forty four. Carmelo Anthony or John Rondo? What Carmelo
incorrect? Rondo had forty four. Melo's career highs forty two? Did it
a couple of times? I want that game film studied in a lab somewhere.
Magic Johnson or Kyrie Irving. Kyrie incorrect? I just had forty three?
Or Vegas is forty two? Larry Bird or Anthony Davis. I'll say
Davis correct forty seven to forty three. Jamal Murray or Isaiah Thomas modern era
Isaiah Thomas the five foot three inch Isaiah Thomas. What was that like triple
overtime. I'll say Thomas that is correct, fifty three to fifty Kawhi Leonard
or Dwayne Wade Kawhi incorrect, Dwayne Wade forty six to forty five. Ouch.
I think you got more than fifty percent of those pretty close. I
had. I started hot and I really tailed off there. The back end
seems like it was tough for you. I have impressed you got the lebron
Nikola Jokic one though, nice job. I feel like that was from a
previous question where I said Jokic didn't have fifty or something and you you told
me he did. So I'm learning. I think we'll see. Uh.
Do you wanna you have a guess a player for me or anything? I
do I have a or anything. I was just like, you want to
talk about your day? Yeah, how's it going? You know? All
right? I have one here from Mike. Uh, only well eleven clues,
but this is a short set of clues, uh for Mike. So
uh, you either will get this easily or you're in big trouble. Clue
number one. I was in the lottery in two thousand and five after four
years at the University of Arizona. Why can you read that back? I
was in the lottery in two thousand and five after four years at the University
of Arizona. I will never not love them giving you college based clues?
Yeah, who who went to Arizona? Channing fry in Arizona? Dad,
you one shot at it? I would one shot killed you did, say,
Channing fry Right, Yeah, that's correct, friend of the podcast,
Channing Frye. Unbelievable. He's a friend. I think you've on Twitter.
Oh okay, well he knows we're the number one podcast. Sorry, Mike
Dan studied up on his college of all hold on, everybody went to Arizona.
How is Channing Frye your first guess? Well, you gave me the
year right, two forties, But I mean, I don't know it could
have been. I guess it's too late for Richard Jefferson, I guess,
and Bibbie and my all right, Hey, you just named a whole bunch
of guys wh I had no idea what to Arizona. That's what I mean.
How did you do? Okay, I guess I'll read some clues now,
just because we owe it to Mike. Clue number two was I played
sixty I wish we could, like see if you would have gotten it without
clue number one somehow, but we'll never know. Clue two. I played
sixty five games as a rookie before messing up my knee in a game against
the Raptors. Despite that, I was named first team All Rookie You know
seven. Traded alongside Steve Francis for Zach Randolph, Fred Jones, and Dan
Dickow. Started twenty one games with the Blazers over two seasons, not doing
much of note, after which I signed a two year, three point eight
million million deal dollar deal with the Suns. A year later extended for five
and thirty. Twenty twelve, I was diagnosed with an enlarged heart. You
might have got it there. Probablyuld have got that one Clue seven. On
July fourteenth, twenty fourteen, signed with the Magic for four years thirty two
disappointing season with the Magic on the court average, my lowest point in rebound
totals deadline the following year. Traded to Cleveland for Jared Cunningham in a future
second Yeah, I was part of the twenty sixteen title winning Calves. You're
definitely getting it there. Traded for Isaiah Thomas, Jordan Clarkson, Larry Nance.
With Isaiah Thomas for Clarkson Larry Nance. No Knicks clues, no Knicks
clues? Do you give you an Arizona clue? Not a Knicks clue?
I probably, honestly that would be about I probably wouldn't have gotten it to
until you mentioned the Calves one. And then there's also the trade for Jordan
Clarkson and stuff. That's probably when I would have got it. Can I
give you Mike? Also, while I have the doc open has a couple
of who is Bill Walton talking abouts that we haven't used yet? And I
want to give you like I'm gonna do three of them just because they make
me laugh? Dan, who is Bill Walton talking about a number one?
He's like a forearmed to Kimbe Mtumbo out there? Is he talking about to
Kimbe Matumbo? Which would be the best possible answer? Uh, Francisco Elson,
Rashid Wallace, Tony Batti or Vin Baker Tony this part doesn't even matter.
It's it's Rashid Wallace, Like who cares? Uh? Two Blank's legs
look like they were sculpted by Microsoft. A couple of questions. A couple
questions. Microsoft have a sculpting arm that we don't know about, or they
have an architectural firm. Uh, who's whose legs look like they were sculpted
by Microsoft? Deshaun Stevenson, Hassan Whiteside, Raife LaFrentz, Yao Ming Latrell
Sprewell, Yao ming with Charles pretty Well, Ryfla Franz, Deshaun Stevenson or
Hassan Whiteside. I'm gonna say, Rafa friends, it is. It is
in fact Yaoming just loves love do it? Or bad legs though I don't
really know what that's the thing. No one knows. No one knows how
good Microsoft sculpts legs. I guess, all right, one more here?
Which one do I want to do? Here? Okay, I'm gonna do
this long one because they're so funny. I hope I didn't do this one
already. Uh. This is on a player acquired by Phoenix, So I
don't know if that's going to help you, Canny Fry, this is the
perfect spot for him a symbol if you will, it's perfect. You know,
fifty thousand years ago, a meteor hit what we now know is the
state of Arizona. That's what this represents, or that's what he represents.
I think of the Grand Canyon, a beautiful, broad, majestic land in
the city of Phoenix. Louis Scola, march In Gortat, Shaq Germaine,
O'Neill, Marcus Banks. It could be literally any one of those guys.
I'm gonna say Martine Gortat. It is, in fact Shaq, which is
almost like it almost makes sense because he's talking about the Grand Canyon, and
Shaq is just like the hugest guy ever. But I just these I don't
want to. Oh, man, I have one more. I just saw
one more. Ahem. The Rockets are dealing with a fully aroused blank.
Michael Finley, Nick Van Exel, Kobe Bryant, Michael Doliac, Gennaro Pargo.
Before you guess, Mike, the names you come up with to put
in here are just like they're so great. Michael Doliac. When's the last
time you thought about Michael Doliac. I have no idea, But now I'm
not gonna pick him because I'm assuming Mike put that in there. He's not
the answer. So Michael Doliac, I forgot everybody, Naro Pargo another deep
cut? Uh, Michael Finley, Nick van Exel, Kobe Bryant. I'm
just gonna say, Nick van Exel, it is a fully was Kobe Bryant?
Damn it? Man? These are so just a delight. I don't
know. I gotta save the last couple for another time because there we need
to cut that up into like we need to do like an actual either episode.
Who's Bill Walton talking? Maybe we should? Who is Bill Walton talking
about episode? Put together your docs? Discord members, go join our discorder.
You can come up. But Mike killed it. My favorite part about
well, I love it all, but one of my favorite parts about the
whole bit is like, I'm not going to fact check these. I don't
like maybe he did say. Maybe Mike's making these up. I don't care
like that he is. If he is, Mike, get a comedy writing
job, yeah, get a pulletzer or something like that. But they're just
it's so much fun. Okay, do you want to give me a guess
a player? I have another one I can give you after No, let
me give you two and then we can get out of here. I have
one from rubikscal for you. Are you ready? I'm ready. I Clue
one. I received the key to the City of Oakland at the two thousand
All Star Weekend. Hmmm, I really want to one shot this two thousand
key to the City of Oakland. I'll give you a bonus clue. They're
an NBA player, Thank you. I'm just trying to think of guys from
Oakland two thousand. I'll say Gary Payton. That is incorrect. Clue too.
I was the first NBA player to hit ten threes in a game,
though I never hit more than five threes in a game. Again, it's
actually pretty wild. That's a really good clue. Ten threes in a game.
Never hit more than five after that? Oh, I think I kind
of know this about give me the answer then. I'd love to never made
more than five after that. First player to hit ten. Yeah. I
didn't fact check this, so I'm just gonna say yes. It's like,
why do I want to say, like Michael Adams is that that's probably way
off? Okay, I don't have it yet. It's not Michael Adams.
Yeah. Clu three. I logged nine hundred and forty three games playing in
both guard positions and made ten plus points per game in only two seasons,
averaged six plus since six plus assists, excuse me only once. Obviously,
my intangible contributions as a teammate far exceeded my counting stats. Oh, that's
interesting, tangible contributions as a teammate. So it's a combo guard the fact
that, like now I'm hung up on who would have been an All Star
in two thousand, But clearly that's not this guy because he averaged what he
averaged ten points a game? He said correct only once? Or was it
was it? It was averaged ten plus points per game in only two seasons?
It was twice? So who made ten threes? Never made more than
five? Yeah, I don't know, clu four. My only we had
coaching stint in the NBA was not a success. But I am a highly
respected assistant coach. I have two rings as an assistant to go with three
as a player. Oh man, he won three titles. Highly respected assistant
coach. Oh, I'm on tilt right now. These clues are so there's
so such a diversity of information coming through here. So key to the city
of Oakland. Ten points a game, made ten threes once but never more
than five and an assistant coach. But it was a bad head coach.
God, that could be so many guys. All right, I don't have
it. Clue of five. I am one of two people who have played
at least one hundred and fifty games with both the Lakers and the Celtics.
That is a good clue. So we got a guard that hit a bunch
of threes, played for the Lakers and the Celtics two thousand. Key to
the city. H I mean, who's hitting ten threes for either of the
Well, I guess it, HM, Lakers and the Celtics. I mean
getting a key to the city in two thousand. I don't have it.
I don't know. Well, you have a couple more clues, you might
get it. Who's six? I am half of arguably the coolest named basketball
duo ever. The nickname was given by the other half of the duo A
Hall of Fame Center? What Hall of Fame center? Is this? A?
Do you know? The nickname? Is this something? You know?
Uh? No? Okay, Well that makes me feel a little better.
All right, I'm gonna need the last clue. Well, there's two more,
Okay, great clue seven. I was there when Trell Spree when Latrell
Spree Well choked PJ Carlyssimo, an incident I talked about on Paul George's podcast.
Oh this is Brian Shaw correct. The final clue was I reportedly dated
Madonna back in the nineties. Oh, would not have got that one.
Oh okay. He accused like the Nuggets when he was coaching them, of
trying to lose on purpose. Well, was that the like Iguidalas is like
a mole. Was that part of the same thing, And it was like
in twenty fifteen or something, it was like he suspected his players were trying
to lose or it was like we're going out there with guys who are competing
and we're not competing back ors. I think it was the most bizarre thing.
God, now on all the clues, believe it or not, Now
all the clues makes sense. The key to the city because I think he
is from Oakland. The Lakers said, okay, man, good one.
That was a good one. That is a sufficiently obscure player with also correctly
escalating and EA's clues. You're gonna get it, but it's gonna get your
work for it. Good one. Good one. Are you ready to get
into the mind of a psychopath? Oh, let's see, I am now,
I'm ready. He abbreciated this is gap, by the way, which
I didn't realize our guest a player, we could have the acronym for gap.
Okay, so we should not fall into or don't finish my sentences.
I guess we're not on that sage. We just dropped from number one on
the chart worldwide probably number two, thanks lock RT. I was in the
mind of a psychopath, not a good yes and improviser. It can't both
at the same time. Clue number one. I was a first round non
lottery pick in two thousand, drafted by a Western Conference team. My pick
was traded four times before I was actually drafted. I got nothing there.
Clue two. In my thirteen year career, I was a sub forty percent
field goal shooter. In other news, I was never an all star bad
shooter. Drafted in two thousand. Okay, Clue three. My best season
was my fourth, when I averaged seventeen points six rebounds to a s.
I finished thirteenth in the Most Improved Player voting. Is this Quentin Richardson?
Correct? Nice job? Other clues this one was This one's wild My top
four most similar players are Adrian Smith, Aaron Aflalo Roja Bell, and Gerald
Henderson. This clue is purposely unhelpful success that is very unhelpful. The other
three were with the seven seconds or less suns. I averaged eight attempts from
three per game across seventy eight regular season starts. Second to last clue,
I finished my career with a bang, playing one regular season game for the
Knicks twenty nine minutes and going one of eleven from the field in those twenty
nine minutes. I was most likely wearing a headband while doing so. And
then final clue, I share the surname with one of the greatest three point
shooters in Santa Clara Santa Clara intramural basketball history. I'm not going to dignify
that with the response Bill could really shoot it. I don't know that is
that is factual excellent three point shooter Quentin Richardson. I feel good about that
one. I feel like I got that three. That was that was efficient,
great, that was that was a good rendition of gap. I can't
wait to fall into the gap next time. Do you want to take us
out of here time by us anyone. Why I don't know what happened,
Like, hold on, I want to up my life just because why not?
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe some cloud cover there. That's now
it feels like I'm really in the dark. That doesn't help you, like
disappeared, Yeah, I mean that's you know, when you get into the
mind of the psychopath, things get a little. That ship got really emo,
real fast, dark in a hurry. Thanks for the guests of players,
Thanks for the the just the all of the bonus stat padding content,
Bill Walton things especially. Please remember as always, rate review, subscribe,
tell your friends about this podcast, show them clips on YouTube, play them
me FA link to pick up the fall into the Gap that Dan laid out
for me and say like they're still trying to get better. So there's upside
for this podcast. If you are interested in our merchant joining our discord links
for that or in the YouTube and podcast description, that's going to do it.
We will have something else coming this week, I think, or maybe
early next week. I don't want to make any promises, but as always,
shouts Frank Millikan an apologies Jared out