Weird Things happened in the Weird Weird Weird. Welcome to today's special swapcast with
I am Ryan Bledsoe and I am Nicker of Bledsoe said, So, joining
us tonight is Meredith Hack with Edwards of Meredith for Real, the Curious Introvert,
and we're also joining you. Yes, we are joining each other.
This is the joining of the pupils because this is a swapcast. Yeah,
this is our first time doing a swapcast on our end. I'm actually excited
because, like I said, like before we you know, ever hosted our
own podcast, I'd always heard swopcasts. I'm like, oh, I want
to do one someday. So here we are. You have made one of
my dreams come true. So just for anybody who's on our end, who
you know, who's catching up and is learning of Meredith for the first time,
Meredith is super cool. She interviewed my dad and just reached out to
me. I think we had followed each other for a little while and you
reached out to me through Instagram and you said the very kind DM about our
show, and immediately I was like, you know what, I just think
it'd be better if you came on it. So here we are. I
think we've had at least one really long, really I think productive conversation leading
us here today, and I just felt really good about collabing. So I'm
gonna get out of here. Yeah no, no, me too. I
want to say what I say to everyone, what I said to you when
I was noticing your show. I was, you know, playing with my
plans as one does, and binging all of your episodes. And because one
of your listeners, actually when the episode with your dad aired, one of
your listeners reached out to me and said, hey, you need to listen
to Ryan and Nick's podcast and specifically listen to the episode about the hypnosis regression
sessions. And then I think I had to reach out to you to figure
out what episode it was, but I found it, and that's what I
was listening to. I expected it to be much browier than it was.
That the messagement. Yeah, yeah, I really did. I stereotyped you.
Sorry about that episode, but it's like, it's so smart, but
it's so like living room ish at the same time, and I was you
very impressed. No, we're getting away from the bro thing. That's right,
that's right. No, I was actually tickled when you said that in
the message, because like from the start, that's one thing that that we
set out to not be was just some like you know, Okay, we're
three males making a podcast, but we we we we really like our crystal
girls who tune into the show too, so you know, and that's that's
a that's an old meme that I don't think we've talked about in probably a
year. But yeah, I mean we have a pretty sizeable female audience,
and honestly, I mean it's great. I think it's I love having like
we have almost a fifty to fifty split, and that's like one of the
things I'm most proud of about the show. That's yeah, I don't know
that that really Yeah, we say dude a lot. If that makes you
broy then that's kind of our We say bro a lot. Yeah, you
do say dude a lot. I did notice that it's like it's a like
a subjunctive, it's a noun, it's an adjective like it's in everything,
which but you know, there could be worse things. So so yeah,
I was very impressed. So I want my listeners to definitely check out your
show because it's really great, and I know a lot of my listeners I
have learned are very much into the topic of phenomenon, which is something I
didn't know in the beginning. But you know, I've been doing this since
the end of twenty nineteen, so it's been a minute and I'm learning more
about my audience every day and they love it. So I really think that
they'll love your show and mine is I cover sometimes phenomenon stuff, but it's
not a phenomenon show. It's a society culture show, and I talk about
taboo topics through nuanced conversations. So if you've ever wished that internet headlines weren't
just Internet headlines, like if you could wish you could dive deeper into stuff,
that's kind of what we do. So things like are trigger warnings helping
us or making us weaker? And how do you actually know if you're an
alcoholic? How are we supposed to make friends as an adult? And why
is male anxiety so stigmatized but women's anxieties like super accept it and you know,
stuff like that. So it's it's fun. It's a really it's a
really fun and uh, very it's it's stimulating for me. I really enjoy
the conversations that we have. So to to one of those points, I
just visited my sister shout out Emmy and in Tampa, uh two weeks ago
now, And yeah, she just moved to Tampa in the month of July.
She's only been there for a few months, you know, coming from
North Carolina, has no friends out there, really, and I kid you
not, she there isn't there is like it's like bumble but for making friends.
And she goes on dates with people that she's made friends without. And
she's found a young lady her age, I say, young lady like my
sister's not my age, right, but you know, and yeah, she
goes on friend dates through through a friend platonic dating app and it's it's really
adorable. So I mean, it's never too late to make friends, right,
I know. It's like their second date was right when I left.
They had their second friends. Wow. I love that. And then to
the other point, you know, you you you had to encourage your listeners
to come check us out. Well, I want to do the same to
our listeners before we get into the meat of this. Yeah, because I
got to say, like Meredith's I had followed you before your episode with My
Dad even aired, because naturally, you know, me and my dad talk
and he told he tells me who shows he's going to go on, and
I went and I followed you in advance. And I have to say,
like your Instagram is it has an amazing esthetic. I think that the content
that you produce is amazing. It's to me, it's very like, I
don't want to say documentary style. It's very much like the vibe I get
is you're like out there in the world, like you're doing stuff, you're
documenting that you're doing stuff. You're hitting these really cool, expansive topics.
And I have to say, like, to be fair, our show is
not really a phenomenon show either because we really talk about the phenomenon when it's
relevant or you know, and it's on our hearts to share. But we
talk about such a wide range of other topics, and I think there's a
crossover between you know, we're just exploring a lot of spiritual and philosophical things.
We're really doing the same thing that you're doing, just in a different
arena. You know, maybe you're doing it better, you know, but
anyway, they're complimentary. I think our shows are in the same vein for
sure. Yeah, so, yeah, I appreciate that, and I'm excited.
It's like yours has a little bit more of like the social like dust
on it, and ours has a little bit more of the spiritual dust.
Dust was the only word that came to my mind. So I'm sorry,
but when you combined dust with the hand motion that you just made it hits
like that tracks, you know, like I was buying with that. Hey,
I want my listeners to know who you guys are, So can you
introduce yourselves? Tell them? I mean, I've talked about your show,
but can you tell them like who you are as you know humans? Sure,
Nick, you want to go first? Sure, my name is Nicholas
Fermanitis. I am lucky enough to co host Bledsoe said. So with Ryan,
we started it a few years ago. I started I really wanted to
be a part of it because Ryan's been my best friend for over fifteen years,
and I felt like if I could help him shine some light on his
family and their experiences and maybe even have like some Catharsis come out of this
project. If I could help him do that, that's like the greatest gift
in the world that I could receive. So that's why I wanted to do
the podcast. We also have a little band that we call twice Born.
I'm really into music, so yeah, that's that's that's me in a nutshell.
You beat me too, and I I you might not know this,
but now when I go on podcasts, I'm definitely dropping twice Born. We
do have a heavy metal band, twice Born. It's like the podcast is
our main baby, our bread and butter that we work on like all the
time, and then we do have our other creative venture together. So twice
Born heavy Metals. It's our fun thing. And then as far as the
main thing, I'm Ryan Bledsoe. I'm the other host of Bletso Said So
And you guys listening from from Meredith's side of of our family lines here,
I'm just gonna like say that our podcasts are like family. Now. I
like to create that picture. We're at least weed smoking cousins. You sneak
out at Christmas and you're like for a walk. Yeah. But but sometimes
I like to think of myself as like the wise old uncle that that like
leads you out to the shed in the forest and then you find out he
has all these magical mushrooms that are mushrooms. Yeah, I mean, let's
let's just take it up a not you know, yeah, and then and
then we'll and then we'll do a little d M T. No. But
seriously, for those who are coming from Meredith's side, you should know who
we are if you heard my dad's episode. My father is Christopher Bledsoe Sr.
He's like one of the most documented, uh publicly acclaimed. I guess
you could call it UFO experiencers. He's a best selling author of UFO of
God. And uh, we do have a recent documentary Channel or excuse me,
History Channel documentary episode Beyond Skinwalker Ranch episode eight season finale. It's literally
called Chris bled so I highly recommend if you guys haven't heard that, you
pause this right now, you go watch that, and then you come back,
because then you'll kind of really understand what we're getting into when we get
into some of this deep stuff. But that's who we are. In a
nutshell. We talk about all kinds of spiritual, philosophical, esoteric, religious,
whatever, metaphysical occult. We talk about all those fun nuggets, but
then we sprinkle in a lot of like our life experience dealing with the phenomenon
and the DoD, NASA, CIA, all these intelligence agencies who've kind of
like poked and prodded at me and my family throughout my life. We hit
on a lot of that stuff too, So it's really a dynamic thing.
And honestly, I don't really think I don't really think there's anything else like
it, So I think you're right, Yes, yeah, yeah, I
take notes when I listened to y'alls high cast, I'm like, her medas
is both nyras, what is all this stuff? Yeah? And also I'm
super excited because until I've done the podcast, I really have not met a
lot of people who also have a background and Pentecostal holiness. Yeah, and
that is also my Christian background, Pentecostal holiness. So I'm really excited to
get into that today. Yeah. So maybe we should start there because I'm
assemblies of former assemblies of God and your former Pentecostal holiness and they're weed smoking
cousins, So we should let's set the stage. I think there's a big
chunk of my audience who know what a simlies of God is. But maybe
let's let's start with like Pentecostal holiness, like describe them, like, were
you like tambourines and streamers or like what, No, no streamers because that
would be vain, right, Oh okay, oh there's no dancing. You
want me to just run it through like what Pentecostals were, Yeah, run
through it. Yeah, run through it. I want to make sure I'm
respectful when I don't want to like, you know, hurt anybody's feelings.
And you know, I still have a lot of love for Christ. And
I'm not saying, you know, shun religion. What I am saying is
I've had a very traumatic religious upbringing, being a family who was having you
know, very intense paranormal experiences and then going and telling people in the community,
including our church, and then the way they treated us was very vicious,
very cruel. So I'm, you know, like, I don't want
to like lash out at Christianity, but it hasn't really been kind to my
family. So I just, you know, it's it's how it is.
But I say all that to say Pentecostal it's probably like two steps removed from
Amish, you know, like if you if you had a sliding scale of
how strict your denomination of Christianity is it's like you have Amish at the top,
where you live in these ascetic villages removed from society. They don't even
have technology. And then it's like Mennonite, which is a level lower.
I'm not very familiar with Mennonites, but I know it's like, you know,
it's it's very similar to Amish, but they still live in society.
And then you have Pentecostals, which are like imagine that, you know,
if you've ever seen a movie that's parodying or satiring Christianity where it's like that
old timey, really old tiny brick building with thirty or four people in the
old fashioned hundred year old pews with the stained glass windows, and the only
instrument they have is like a piano and tambourines, and like everybody's you know,
very very committed to praise in like loud worship and shouting in tongues and
like all that's that's what Pentecostal is. It's extremely strict. Women only can
wear long skirts down to their ankles, no piercings, no makeup, no
hair color, you can't drink alcohol. I mean, it is extremely strict.
Like every book or every word in the book is one hundred percent infallible.
It is literal every interpretation that it like for you know, Earth being
six thousand years old all that stuff. It's like, it's like Pentecostal is
one of those old timey really sort of like underground and modern times, like
you know, maybe have an aunt and uncle who goes there, but not
many people have really been there. I mean it's just strict, you know.
And yeah, so it sounds like Pentecostal holiness is like the country cousin
of a symbly of God, and Assimblies of God is like the city kid.
Yeah, I'm not very familiar with assemblies of God to be honest.
Okay, So Assimblies of God is a sect of Pentecostal Okay, and it
I mean, I can just tell you, like I'm not going to go
through like the official whatever because I don't know it off the top of my
head. But we swam in T shirts and short Yeah. Yeah, it
was very charismatic in the worst up. I actually really enjoyed that a lot.
The Tambourine Lady was the fave Palm Sunday. It was my favorite,
always thought it was just so beautiful because we bring in huge palms and it
was just, oh my god, I love it and the highest Yeah,
I loved it. I mean this was before Hillsong really became popular, So
this is pre uh smoke on stage, you know, with like the the
special effect, Like god, the fog fucking fog machine. Can I have
to cuss on your show? I hope I have absolutely? Hell yeah,
the fog machines. That's when I was like, is my tithe money paying
for a fucking fog machine? No? I am yeah about this life.
But I loved Palm Sunday, So they did that. Dancing in church was
okay. Dancing at a wedding, you know, you couldn't do like club
dancing. Definitely, no secular music, no cussing, no sleeping together.
A lot of people didn't like even kiss before they got married, like their
wedding day was their first kiss. There was. It was the nineties for
me, so it was very you know, Joshua Harris, I kiss dating
goodbye. If any of your listeners are closer to my age, they all
know what that means. And yeah, so I'm purity culture yeah and yeah,
but like but a little bit more like definitely make up, definitely you
know, modesty, but also kind of modern. And the youth group was
all the you know, the nineties Christian stuff like DC Talk and Jarza clay
Man, Love me some Jerassic Let's go. Yeah yeah. So Nick,
are you from the Pentecostal holiness background too? No, So I kind of
have an interesting uh duality in my religious upbringing. So uh, my family,
like my parents, we always went to like your like stadium, non
denominational, like you know what, like the big right, like the fog
machine, Like the fog machine was in there since the day that I was
going there. I'm pretty sure that church invented the fog machine. So it's
like, you know, a lot of that stuff and like that. I
don't know if you've ever been to those kinds of churches, but it's it's
very opposite to what you guys are describing with like the strict stuff. I
mean, you still follow the tenants of that that like most Christians do.
There's not like cursing, you're not really gonna hear that that you don't talk
about like drinking alcohol and you know, but it wasn't like girls have to
wear a skirt and they're not allowed to cut their hair and like stuff like
that. So that was half of it. But then the other half of
the time I went with my grand parents, and my grandparents are Anglican,
and if you're familiar with Anglican it's like one step away from Catholicism. Like
it's like it's like a Catholicism light. It's like it's diet Catholicism for sure.
Like like they say the nice in Creed, like the you know,
the the prayer is similar. There's like similar hymns. It's it's it's really
really similar, you do. Like so in the non denominational church, communion
was like the little plastic cup with the wafer and the grape juice. At
the Anglican church, it was like everybody go to the altar and kneel and
fed unleavened bread and drink wine. Like if you're four years old, you're
drinking wine, you know that, like that that kind of thing, And
that was a more strict kind of thing. So it wasn't It's certain.
I've been to church with Ryan many times and vice versa, and yeah,
and vice versa absolutely, and I love the next church. I'm sure Ryan
would agree. Uh, he basically just said it it's nowhere near as strict
as as what he's used to. So that's my background, but that doesn't
take away from the severity of it, you know what I mean. Like
it may not have been as strict as like freaking obey or die, you
know, you got to follow these tenants, but it's it's still the same
kind of like strict adherents and belief in the community. I mean, it's
it's very similar to no, you know, it is in many ways,
and I still to this day am like working out the kinks of some religious
trauma. So like it still did its number on me. For here's an
example. Like, for instance, you know, I grew up Pentecostal,
but you know what, my dad let me watch whatever rated R movie I
wanted. He didn't care. You know, Nick went to a church.
Uh you know, I'm not sure what church you went to as a kid,
but his parents wouldn't even let him watch like Pokemon you know yu gi
oh, yeah, things like that that I was watching. So like,
it doesn't matter whose church was more strict, you know, because at the
end of the day, it's like what your family and what your parents believe
and what they take home and what they put on you, right, and
yeah, and I would add like your personality, like how you your personal
internal filter interprets things, you know, how you your personal how you manifest
the outer message into an internal world, and so that's that's it too.
So yeah, yeah, there's all kinds of factors there. I would like
to know for you personally, Like Ryan, what was your how would you
describe your personal faith pre pre January two thousand and seven phenomenon moment because I
was gonna say pre Well, but phenomenon has always been a part of your
life, so that doesn't really work, right, I understand. Yeah,
like before I started having those experiences, Yeah, before the big moment.
Well, I'm thirty now, and I know I don't look at I look
about eight. I know, let's get that out of the way for everybody.
Whatever. But you look very spelt and manly and thirty. Thanks bro,
you do. But yeah, so before all the phenomenon stuff happened,
I mean I was, I was right there. Actually. You know,
it's funny. I didn't really start heavy going to Pentecostal churches until I was
about fourteen. Before that, my grandmother was Pentecostal, and my mom and
dad just took us to like this really strict, devout like non denominational church
and then we migrated to the Pentecostal Church actually right around when I started experiencing
the phenomenon. But like I said, I always grew up with a family
who was Pentecostal, and my grandmom and you know, many of it was
always in the family, right, So that's that's what I came from.
That's what I was. You know, I'm not gonna lie to you and
tell you that going to these strict churches that I wasn't, you know,
a little kid just like every other kid, you know, sneaking off of
saying cuss words and playing grand theft auto and stuff like that. I mean,
you know what I mean, Like, it doesn't really matter how strict
your churches. Kids want to kids, right, But I still believed I
still would sit up as a kid. Literally, I mean me and my
brothers. I have two older brothers and a younger sister. But my older
brothers we would sit around and I remember, years before we experienced the phenomenon,
my older brothers would be like, what what do you guys think aliens
are real, and we're like, yeah, you know, and and I
think I think my brother Chris Junior was like, well, when I die,
I want to ask God if aliens are real? You know stuff like
that, Like we we really believed. And I'll never forget being like ten
years old and sitting in church and hearing the other kids of the youth group
being like, well, when I die, I want to go to heaven
and be the incredible Hulk. Well, I want to be a super saying
you know, like you know, as a kid, like really believing in
heaven, really really believing in Hell and having that deep fear of if,
you know, if I don't say a prayer before I drive off a cliff
and crash this car, I'm not going to go to hell or you know,
should I always be on alert to say that last forgiving prayer to save
my soul so I don't burn forever. I mean, it was the cycle
of constant and guilt and shame, like wanting to be a normal kid,
but also living in constant fear of hell, and not even fear of the
devil, but fear of God right, because it's you know, it's like
work out your salvation with fear and trembling, fear the Lord that God right,
and I believe that, and I feared and I as a kid,
you know, going to Pentecostal churches, I would watch everybody around me go
and kneel, and my pastor, God bless him. He would say,
uh, you know basically, you know, God, God, God is
God is Uh, God is is is watching. You know, like if
if you're if you're shouting and joyful and and and praise in church, that's
that's appreciated. It's like stacks up in the Kingdom of Heaven. But you
know, I'd be worried about the ones sitting in the pews with with you
know, with sitting there cold and not not praying and shouting and rejoicing together
on Sunday. It was like that kind of culture, like this guilt that
I'm not. I was kind of introverted. I didn't want to shout in
church. Everyone's around me dancing in the Holy Spirit, and I'm sitting there
like embarrassed I'm not, and they kind of shame you. Yes, it's
a low key shame you. Yes, if you're not like outspoken like everybody
else's quote unquote supposed to be it's it's messed up exactly. And I would
so many times all the way up until I was like eighteen, regularly going
to the Pentacolt Church. I would walk myself to the altar every Sunday and
I would kneel and I would pray, and I would pray, and I
would pray prostrate on my face, trying to cry, you know what I
mean, like trying trying to trying to shed the guilt and the shame.
And I have to say it never worked. But that's what I really come
from. I really did believe that way until you know, two thousand and
seven, Like I said, when I was thirteen years old, I saw
the lights in the sky with my family, and I will say, I
don't know if you're aware of this story, Meredith, but one of the
very worst moments of my entire life, like if I was to die and
pass through into the Bartow loop, where I see my life on repeat,
like we all do, you know, you see the sequences of your life
play out and all the grand pleasures and traumas. I probably we would see
this moment thrown in my face multiple times, where at thirteen years old,
I watched as a Baptist preacher came into my house with holy oil and tried
to exercise the devil out of my dad for seeing these lights. That was
that was the reaction from the church to us, you know, and at
such a young age, experiencing this this phenomenon, all this stuff and you
know, NASA cum and knocking and the CIA, and then the interaction with
the church, it was it was very crushing and I realized, at a
young age, they don't have it figured out. I think, you know,
they're in the right place. I think maybe at the time I'm thinking
me, you know, fifteen twenty years ago or whatever, I'm thinking like,
maybe they're in the right place. Maybe the Bible is the right knowledge,
and maybe I should be here. But I know something that they don't,
you know. That was my thinking, like I know something they don't.
It's my little secret going out and seeing the lights in the sky.
They're telling us it's demons whatever I know it's not. You know, we
pray and they appear. So it was this strange dichotomy of like having these
experiences, having this this knowledge and all this stuff going on, but then
still trying to blend into church and it didn't It didn't last. Yeah,
it's kind of like you had a secret in a way. How you described
your response and your your reaction to your faith community is kind of like in
a cerebral space, you know, like and you're a cerebral guy, you
know, Like I've properly cyberstuct you, so I know, oh you know,
you know, like like there's some people that really come from like a
really heart led place and everything is about the feelings and charging their crystals in
the moonlight, and I I I hear you kind of on the opposite side,
you know. You you said a word a minute ago that I'm like,
oh, I should write the down another bar loop and yeah, well
yeah, bar I'm gonna write it down right now. It's like the Book
of the Dead. It's like when you die and you go into this spiritual
state where you're seeing your life on repeat, and it's like, do I
want to jump to the next life or where are we going from here?
You know, to betan book always that. I love that, But what
I would love to know is like, how did you feel about God?
Like did you have you know, to use jargon from our past lives?
Did you have a personal relationship with God or was it truly just a ping
pong of messaging that was you know, guilt salvation. Guilt salvation. Yeah,
so yeah, like before the phenomenon, it definitely would would have been
guilt salvation. I never I think that people can say all day that they
have a personal relationship with God. But in my experience in life, I
have observed few people that I believe that to be true. And like,
it's funny, this might come as like an out of left field hook,
but like Nick's dad is one of those people who I've sat back and I've
observed and I'm like, you know what, this guy really believes what he's
telling me. Oh, really fully gets it. He really has that faith.
But there's I've kind of like described it in the past as he sees
through to the core of it, you know what I mean, he has
the ability to completely he has like horse blinders. He just sees right through
to the core and he really has it down. I mean, I mean,
it's I've never seen anything like it anywhere else. As well, he's
hilarious. He's hilarious because he's like he's pretty open with you, you know,
if you're in his inner circle. He you know, paraphrasing, he
wouldn't say it exactly like this, but he basically like, uh, you
know, I'm fucked up, but the Lord's got my back exactly, you
know, Like I'm pretty sure my dad has said that. I'm pretty sure
that's tattooed on his forehead like that. That's what I appreciate about your dad.
And then I'll get back your question. But just like, I see
so few people in my life like that who are like, I'm not perfect,
I'm not trying to be. I'm just trying to like I'm just trying
to like get this message out and like, you know, have faith and
you know, and I've met few people like that in my life. Like
obviously I would say my dad. But like as far as me, I
never really felt like I had a real spiritual connection with God until I started
seeing the lights. I mean, you know, going to church and reading
about it is one thing, and it's like I felt like it was desperately
seeking to establish that connection, but always feeling subconsciously in my mind as a
little boy that I was going to go to hell. And every night as
I'm going to sleep, I'm praying, please forgive me if I die my
sleep, don't send me to hell. Please, God, you know I'm
sorry. Make me pure, make me literally, change me, just change
me, just use me. Please change me, like, save my fucking
life. I do not want to go to hell. But when I started
seeing the lights, it became more of a I I think. I think
that you know, God is speaking to me here, God, God,
I know you know it's like and understanding that, like, oh my God,
there there really is something up there, like I see it when when
we have these experiences, and and you know, you can ask Nick,
you can ask Alex. They've seen it many times. I was just in
flor I hate that you live six hours away from where my sister lived because
I know it'll happen. We'll make something happen. But no, it'll happen.
Yeah, we could have skywatched, and like, it's one thing when
you go your whole life reading about it or hearing about it or thinking about
it when you see when you you know, when you say a prayer or
you know, say the word Holy Spirit or the Mother or the Trinity.
I know to your listeners they might be like what, but you know we
can get it that later I'm assuming that my listeners have listened to the episode
with your dad, and so they kind of know the story, you know.
I think a lot of them like went and bought the book. So
I think we're I think we've got that baseline established. Maybe some of the
details they'll just have to listen to your shelf. Do you get set?
Yeah? But when you when you see though, when you see these things,
these miracles that mortal eyes should not be seeing, you know, how
can you deny that you have a personal relationship with something out there? You
know? Think about it. It's like you, you, you, you
put out a prayer to the heavens and then a light appears. Well,
I know, I say you, but I'm saying in my experience, I
have a very unique experience here. But when you see this, it's like,
how can I not have a personal connection? And I feel like after
having these experiences. Although I'm no longer a Christian, meaning, I'm not
like keeping my mind inside the box of the religion Christianity, you know,
I still love Jesus. I think Jesus, do you consider yourself like Christian
adjacent? No, I don't consider myself religious. I just think that God
is real. I think that Jesus. I think that, and and you
know, Buddha, I think Hermes truth Majstus Zoroaster. I think there have
been many wonderful people throughout the several the last several thousand years who have had
a very similar message at different AONs and humanity and have at the time that
these people have come, they may have embodied a level of spiritual mastery that
most people not ready to incarnate with and brought some knowledge that progressed the way
that people felt and connected spiritually with the One Great Spirit. You know what
I mean. Like, I'm not a Christian. I see value in Jesus.
I see value in Christ. I believe God. Do I think that
God is only in the Bible. No. I think that God is outside
of everything. I think that God is ineffable. I think that God is
something that the more you try to imagine it, the more you push it
away. It's like the tal say, when you put a name on me,
when you put a label on me, you've lost me. Right.
I think that God is this force that is outside of our little games,
outside of our little telephone game of well. I think it's Osirius well.
I think it's you know, Jesus, Well, I think it's Kuanyu.
I think it's bigger than all of that. I think that it is one
objective force that is connected to all of us through the breath and through our
spirit, and we can connect to it if we humble ourselves to the higher
forces. We open our minds and our hearts to what is actually out there.
And just you know, you don't have to pray out loud. If
you're self conscious about this, that's fine. I'm not gonna like religiously shame
anybody, but you know, you can think it in your mind. Just
whatever is out there, whatever is real, show me, connect with me,
uh, fill me up with wisdom and guide me to understand what you
are. And I'm telling you the synchronousities will be off the fucking chain.
This is a good time to talk about mushrooms, don't you That sounds lit?
Yes. Also, you know, there's some kind of theory out there
that the Bible is actually a story about psilocybin. I looked into it a
little bit, but I'm trying to go deep on that. Like apparently all
the allegories in the Bible, there's somebody that theorizes it's all about mushrooms,
but sorry, go ahead, Yeah, I Lex Friedman just did an episode
about that. I saw a part of it on YouTube, but I haven't
been able to watch the whole thing yet. I just want to know,
like what role plant medicine has played in y'all's spiritual journey. Thig you started?
Okay, all right, fine, plant medicine. All right, So
I'm going to talk about two of my favorite plant medicines. Uh, one
being psilocybin and the other being cannabis thhc Uh. I was recently able to
get completely off of my antidepressants and my eighty H. Well, I guess
it's searchraline, which is like a what's it called zoloft, you know,
it's it's that kind of thing, like an SSRI SSR. Right, That's
what I was looking for, Thank you. I recently I've been taking SSRIs
for four or five years now. I was having really really bad anxiety at
one point, uh, and depression. You know, I didn't even know
I had depression. I went to the doctor because I was having like my
heart was racing, I was short of breath. I thought I was like
gonna have a heart attack or something. But I went to the doctor and
they're like, oh, no, you definitely have anxiety, but also take
this little survey you might also be depressed. And I was like, uh,
all right, I don't think I'm depressed, but all right, and
I like filled it out, and like the nurse looked at it and was
like, yikes, you're pretty depressed. And I was like, okay,
sure tell me what that means. And you know, so five years later,
I've gotten to a point where it certainly helped me for a couple of
years manage my anxiety and my depression and stuff. But over the past like
year, year and a half something like that, I feel like it's outlived
its usefulness and it kind of started to have the inverse effects on me.
And so just here, I don't know, two or three months ago,
I got off of my ssri and now my daily supplement for that is cannabis.
And let me tell you all the goods and none of the bads.
I am more motivated and less depressed than I have been in quite some time.
Obviously, that doesn't mean I'm just happy hunky dory all the time.
Like life still is hard sometimes and the anxiety is less than it was a
few months ago when I was taking anxiety medications. So that's that little bit.
But as far as psilocybin goes, I would say that psilocybin had a
very profound effect on my spirituality. Let's see, the first time I did
mushrooms, and it was right before we started doing the podcast. It was
I remember, Okay, I was gonna ask because twenty twenty November it was.
It was because actually my wife and I and some friends, it was
all. It was our first time doing it, and it was the like
ten year anniversary of when my wife and I started dating or something like that.
It was a very it was a significant moment. But anyway, that
checks out because you just hit thirteen years last year. Yeah, okay,
all right, yeah, I just know everything about this guy. I know.
I know. So we all did it together, and it was I
definitely had an ego death, possibly for my first time. But the really
profound thing that happened with me in that moment was I looked around the room.
We had like neon lights and like we had it was decorated. We
did a whole big annoying thing about it. But and I looked around at
all my friends and my little cat that was sitting on my lap, and
my wife that was sitting next to me, and I remember looking around and
having an overwhelming feeling that everyone in that room, including my cats, were
all the same being we were just Wow. I was like, I looked
at over at my friend Nathan, and I it was like I saw my
soul in him, in his body. Wow, I saw his. Well,
it's more like I felt it, you know. It wasn't I didn't
see, but it's like I felt his. And then I looked at my
friend Angel, and it was like I felt his soul in my body.
It was like the blur, the lines were completely blurred. I even remember
looking my cat dead in the eyes and being like, you're the same thing
as me. And and as Ryan said, as Ryan said, it was
right before we started the podcast, Yeah, months before. Yeah, just
just a few months, because we started in like March or everywhere, like
we started we launched in June. Yeah, we started working on it in
like March. Yeah. Yeah, And I just remember, you know,
we started doing the podcast, which is when I feel, I honestly like
had my first relationship, my first real relationship with spirituality. Was when we
started the podcast and we started diving really deep into all of these like you
know, these wisdom traditions and this esoteric occult knowledge and uh, kind of
looking in the Venn diagram between in the middle of the Venn diagram, between
all these different exoteric and esoteric religions, Like, I felt my spirit resonating
with this information in a way it never did with God. What I thought
was God, you know, because I had the same relationship as you guys.
I think Meredith, you implied that you also had that relationship where it
was like, you know, apologize and then redemption, salvation. It's kind
of kind of something that was definitely it's like a shame cycle. Oh,
that's a great way to put it. It's absolutely you feel ashamed, so
you reach out and apologize and then you feel better and then it just goes
and goes and goes. Because that was my only relationship with that God,
you know. And so I think the combination of me having that experience with
psilocybin, feeling the collective consciousness represented in my apartment living room, and then
starting this podcast and learning about all this information that was that kind of jump
started my spiritual awakening. Oh wow, that's really cool. That's really special
that the podcast was like a part of your journey so far. Yeah,
well maybe the biggest part. Honestly. Since we've started the podcast, you've
also had some pretty like hair splitting paranormal experiences too, you know. Oh
yeah, which definitely helps. It puts the key in the ignition for these.
Well, and I had had experiences. You know, I started going
over to Ryan's house. Just for your listeners who might not know, I
started going to Ryan's house when we were, like, you were fourteen,
I know it was fourteen, And you know, a couple years two three
years after going over there that I started seeing things. I started having experiences.
I had a couple when we were younger, not a lot. It
happened a few times, but when we started the podcast, it started happening
a lot. Yeah, you're right, Sorry, Ryan, Yeah, go
ahead, Oh no, no, I just I know exactly when it was
because I'm a grade ahead of Nick. We both have summer birthdays, so
I know that we were the same age all year of a school year.
And when I was in ninth grade, you know, we were friends on
the bus in middle school, and then I went to high school one year,
and then when I was in the tenth grade, he came back and
he was on my bus again, and we were like, what's up.
And we were old enough to where our parents started letting us hay not outside
of school, and the rest is history. So that's why I know you
came over when you were fourteen, r you know, Okay, Yeah,
and I definitely want to hear more about some of those paranormal experiences, Like
so let's like try to remember that between the three of us, okay,
because I want to come back to this after we leave the realm of the
psychedelic. But yeah, so what about you, Brian, Yeah, definitely
definitely. Plant medicine been a part of your spiritual journey. I mean,
you know, like I would say the same like with psilocybin. I first
had experienced it a few years ago after we had started the podcast, like
very shortly after, and yeah, I mean I have to say like it's
it's I mean, I don't talk about psilocybin or yeah, mushroom mushrooms.
No, I had tried mushrooms, and I don't want to sit here and
be preachy to people about like the effects it has on the brain. From
a scientific perspective, I mean, anybody can google that that there's no negative
side effects. It's literally impossible to overdose. There's nothing negative to be gained
from mushrooms work. I mean, sure, yes, sure you will beat
And you know, there's all this, there's all this, like there's all
this like Richard Nixon era, you know, nineteen seventy War on Drug stigma
about psychedelics, and you know, they put out all these commercials. You
know, this could be your kid on acid, and they show this like
really grainy fake video of somebody jumping off a roof and it's like they were
so high they killed themselves. You know, they put out all this stigma
about psychedelics. It's not true. It's absolutely not true. And like just
just for anybody who is a kind of a scientific thinker, you know,
you like to stimulate your left brain a little more or maybe it has more
activity than the right brain, you know, if you like data. They
have rats and they made them ingest seventeen thousand grams of psilocybin mushrooms only,
and only fifty percent of the sample size perished from toxicity. And just for
a perspective of like dosage and things like that with psilocybin. You know,
when I did mushrooms, the biggest amount was like four grams. Yeah,
you know, like this is seventeen thousands. We're Yeah, it took seventeen
thousand grams from actually be full like you would be. You couldn't consumer.
Yeah, they had to like inject it from like a chemical perspective. Yeah,
but that'd be the whole room full to the top of mushrooms like a
video game or something. You have to really try. Yeah, that's my
point. It's impossible to actually be harmed from these things. So moving forward,
what I will say is it helped me to change the way that I
see things. You know, and coming from a psychology perspective, you know,
we have these barriers in our minds, our ego that that like,
it's one of the things I learned in psychology, Like it is actually a
pain full stimulus to the brain to challenge your worldview, to try and change
the way that you see the world. You know, if you're Christian,
or if you're Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist, you know, if you have
some ingrained belief whatever it is, it's physically painful to the brain to try
to challenge that that belief system. But what we know about psilocybin is that
it's like fireworks go off. I know I said I wasn't gonna be preaching
about the science, but go do it. Wait wait, hold on,
observation this is ten points if you get that reference. This is like the
example of what I was talking about earlier is how you tend to be cerebral.
Like I was like, Ryan, how do you feel about the mushrooms?
And you're like, well, here's the data, and so that's that's
like, you know, it's neat to to to see how your your wheels
turn in that way. But I would like to hear more about like the
first person, you know, less measurable part of your psychedelic journey. Okay,
yeah, yeah, yeah, So we know about the neurons exploding and
your brain thinks on a higher perspective. Well, for me, it was
like yeah, it was like it allowed me to let go of very limiting
beliefs and just you know, it allowed me to change my perspective and I
think, just be like a more well rounded, open minded person and just
be a little less judgmental and a little more open to trying creative ideas that
are solutions that I may or you know, problems that I may have had
in my life for a very long time that I couldn't come up with a
solution for because I was stuck in one way of thinking and one way of
behaving. Mushrooms allowed me to think on another plane to where I could sort
of like from a sideways perspective, see certain limits that I had within my
mind and release them. It felt like walls were being knocked down in my
brain. And that's the easiest way that I can describe it, other than
the wall and the walls are moving, you know. But like the inner
workings of the process changed my life. And I've probably done mushrooms thirty or
forty or fifty times now, and there have been some times where I wasn't
in there setting and I freaked out and I felt negative, But you know
what, later I had tremendous lessons to learn from it. And that's another
thing that I, you know, want people out there to understand who haven't
tried this is like, even if you have a bad experience with this kind
of thing, it still teaches you in the end, and you still I'm
going to add a little context. The same night that I did mushrooms the
first time, like an hour after I was like having fun with my soul
and other bodies and all that beautiful stuff, I was in my room face
down, having a panic attack. So yeah, let's put that out there.
But I woke up the next day remembering the experience that I had,
and I truly felt like a changed person. I mean I felt like I
felt. You ever have that that quick moment of lucidity where you like kind
of feel like a kid again. Yes, you know, it was one
of those. I was like, oh my gosh, I had I had
like an or you feel old too. Sometimes you just feel yeah, I
know what you mean. Yeah, it was one of those. So yeah,
so you may have a bad experience, but you'll you'll most likely have
more of a positive experience. Yeah yeah, outside of set and setting like
where you choose to do it. You know, be responsible, don't don't
be an idiot, all that kind of stuff. Outside of that, if
you do have a bad experience, just breathe. It's gonna be over.
You ain't gonna die, despite what many people around me. So I'm gonna
uh you know, like you're not gonna die. Yeah, you're gonna learn
from it, You're gonna grow from it. And sometimes we need to be
humbled, you know. Mushrooms throws things in our face, you know,
psychologically speaking, that we might have been suppressing for a really long time,
and it's like you have to overcome these fears, overcome these these issues that
are in your mind, and you grow and you're you're stronger and wiser and
just a more wonderful, luminous being on the other side. I think it's
so spiritual. I think I think psilocybin. You know, this is gonna
sound really weird, but it I think it calls to you. I think
plant medicine can call to some people. Maybe this is it's probably not everyone,
but but that's how that happened for me because being Pentecostal, because a
symbol of God is Pentecostal. Just in case people are getting confused between what
you're saying, Ryan Pentecostal, what I'm saying Pentecostal. But when we would
sing in church or you know, we called it the worship session, it
was basically meditation, like we would get into an altered state of consciousness and
it was very vibrational, and we never used that word, but it very
much paralleled experiences that I've had that were spiritual, but not in the dogma
of in the context of like a church. Because I remember the first time
that I ever smoked weed, which was pretty late in life. I think
I was thirty five, thirty seven, I thought, I waited, I
was like twenty one or something. Your bring was almost developed to bring almost
developed. Yeah, yeah, hopefully twenty five, so your brain was fully
developed. But yeah, so I was like really late into that. But
I had meditated before. And the reason that that's relevant is because you know,
I took some of the medicine and see, my friends were so sweet
and they were like, Okay, how do you feel? And I was
like, oh, I know this feeling and they said, oh, wait,
what you do? Yeah, like when I meditate. And that feeling
of when I meditate was also very similar of when we were in worship,
and I would call it in the zone, and it's a physical vibrating feeling
from head to toe and you just feel this inner resonance. It's hard to
describe that it actually does feel like a physical vibration and it's quite like you
know, like you know, and we this, Oh, this one's really
cerebral, Like it is cerebral in a sense, but sometimes it's a little
more body. But when I smoked weed, that was the first, my
first reaction. And just like you were saying, Nick, there has been
been moments with marijuana where it would teach me things like this. One time
I was at the beach and I just had too much. Yeah, but
I didn't. I didn't really realize it until you know, it's too late,
until I was less enough. And so I went into the water and
I'm laying in the water on like a float or something, and suddenly I
just think to myself, I'm here. I'm here, right now, i
am here. Oh my gosh, I'm here. This makes no sense,
but I just was like so present. I didn't realize how fractured my my
own like consciousness was as far as like, yeah, my attention, like,
you know, I'm talking to this person, but I'm really thinking about
the groceries or you know, whatever, some something not really important. But
I was like, oh my gosh, look at this beautiful blue green water
and look all my friends there on the shore. And I started to cry
and and you know what's beautiful though, is that feeling of being present and
mindful. I was like, I can access that, that's within me.
That's not from the weed, but it is like the weed was like here
you go. You know, it's like a little weight. It was what
it was the teacher. It was your teach. It was the teacher.
Yeah yeah, it only opened the doorway, but it was you exactly you
yeah, like yeah. I think of it as like the waiter at a
restaurant, Like the weed was the waiter. You know, your food didn't
come from the waiter. Your food came from the kitchen. The food came
from the chef. The waiter just brought it to you. And the weed
was the waiter, and it just brought it to me. And so I
was able to kind of carry that and tap into that present mindset place after
that, and so it didn't down the road I was. This year,
I had my first mushroom trip, and I knew that I wanted to approach
it from a place of like a ritual place, you know, like a
sacred place. Yeah yeah, yeah, like I felt I had been holding
onto the mushrooms for about a year and it just didn't feel right, didn't
feel right, and then it occurred to me one day, like a person
that I could maybe asked to help me, and so I called him and
it turns out he does it all the time, like, oh, okay,
cool, and so he helped me and guide me through it and helps
with integration. And that was just completely beautiful and spiritual. And some of
the nick you mentioned, you know, some of the traumas, the religious
traumas, you know, a little bit of that came up. I had
more to do with the relationships within that setting. But so there was some
what we call shadow work happening, which I didn't really sign up for,
but we got anyway, and some really beautiful visuals that I didn't know what
they meant, because I don't I don't like, I'm not that woo woo
like, I don't know, like I just now kind of know which colors
are which with which chakras. But it was this beautiful pink and violet and
like swirling space, like yeah, actually, wow, that is so synchronistic.
I'm going to keep that in mind. Okay, I had a d
MT experience. We'll get to that. I just wanted to make a note,
Okay, Yeah, yeah, so it's like all these in everything in
that kind of color spectrum, and then all of a sudden there was a
butterfly, but it was drawn. It was a white butterfly as though I
had drawn it, and it was moving, and then it turned into a
mandala, which was beautiful. But I was like, yeah, that came
from my brain, of course, because I like butterflies, and who doesn't
love a good mandala fractal geometry, Yes, I did, exactly so.
But you know how mushrooms are a bit different than weed because in weed,
you're like, am I in the future? I think I'm a dream?
Am I the past? Like you just sort of old Like yeah, am
I said, I don't know, Yeah, who are you? How have
we been standing here? But like mushrooms is so it's like it was a
grounded experience, like I was still me, I was still present, but
it was like it was a definitely it felt like I was hanging out with
a person. And yeah, like to this day, I don't know,
I just have this deeper reverence for it. But so mush the butterfly,
No, no, the butterfly was for me. The mandala, I'm like,
yeah, that totally like came out of a deep place in my little
hippie heart, except for then all of a sudden there was a serpent,
and I was like, oh, I didn't invite you, and it wasn't
threatening. It just it was also drawn as if I had sketched it,
but it was just like out of the corner. I was like, oh,
here's a serpent. Okay. And then later just you know, it
wasn't malicious, but that wasn't for me. Like I'm not all down with
snakes. I mean, I'm not afraid of them, but I'm not like
love a negative symbol, it's a spiritual symbol. Well, yeah, the
guy told me that it both of all three of those things. Butterfly,
mandala, and serpent are representative of transation, and so it was very helpful
to have him there. You'll notice when you look at the ancient hieroglyphs of
the eyes of Raw and Horace, they have cobras as the eyebrows, symbolizing
it's it's like the Kundalini. It's it's the it's the energy that travels up
our spine and rises to our crown. You know. It's like we have
thirty three vertebrae in our spine, and if you look at like the Wisdom
tradition and Mystery tradition view on serpents and symbolism, it's believed that they might
be the animal and nature that is the closest connection to the divine because they
only have a spine, they only have a spinal column, they don't have
any other appendages. They're just pure energy moving. It's it's just one way
of looking at it. But there's a lot of esotericism behind serpent symbolism,
and it's not evil inherently. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean I
didn't feel unsafe or threatened or anything by it. It was it was very
very healing and very cool and a lot like what you said Ryan about how
you feel your view of God is more expansive. Now, that's that's how
I feel about it. But it's really hard to put into words, like
I still consider myself christian Ish, but I just feel like going back to
church in the way that I did, or even just going back to church
like like Nick you were talking about you went to like a modern contemporary,
non denominational church, Like even doing that for me just would feel boxed in.
And yeah, yeah, but I'm also not like charging crystals in the
moonlight, Like I just am you like that to us? I got my
tom on gang Garry. What's up? We keep it on deck? You
already know I like, I don't charge them in the moonlight. I keep
selling it around and keep them charge you know. But you know what there's
I mean. I do love my stones. I'm a I'm a turquoise girl,
like all the you got the stones matchine the nails in the necklace.
Look at that matching bro. So we're not a bro podcast, right,
like our crystal growth exactly exactly. I love it. Okay, So I
want to talk about like the negative spiritual stuff or like the not it could
be negative, but the abnormal, the the not like mandala butterfly thing.
Oh wait, Ryan, you wanted to talk about something first about magenta.
Yeah, I had a couple, Like I know, earlier I ranted about
data numbers and all this bull crap. But to cut to the heart of
your question, mushroom experiences. And then I'm gonna move to the d MT
one. So I had some pretty wild mushroom experiences, one of which was
the first time I ever took like a pretty sizable amount, and I like
just remember laying there and looking up and then eventually I closed my eyes,
and when I closed my eyes and my mind, I just saw like this
construct made of light, and I intuitively knew that whatever I imagined in this
construct would emit a subtle energy to affect change in the real world. It
was like, I got the sense that, like, whatever we imagine and
visualize is making a real impression in the real world. You have this little
imaginary realm that exists in your mind, but when you really stimulate that and
visualize that and believe in that, it's like manifestation. It's like it has
an effect in the real world. You know. That was the sense I
got on the mushrooms. And if you study all the mystical body of knowledge,
that's basically it. You know, there's even people like Nevill Goddard who
have this whole system about using imagination to manifest you know, because the idea
is that we are all fractal sparks of God. But then you know,
it's like the universe exists within the mind of God. So maybe the minds
of each of us are entangled to God. You know that maybe there's something
real in the mental realm anyway, So moving forward, I did have a
couple of other really are shocking mushroom experiences. They kind of humbled me a
little bit and made me pump the brakes for a while. There was one
time where I was like so deep, and you could call it the mushroom
realm or whatever. I mean, if you take a high enough amount,
you just look around and everything you see doesn't look normal. And I saw
definitely like the faces of the people in the room around me were morphing and
changing, and it looked like I was viewing their higher selves and they would
have like four eyes. Their faces would be like changing directions and they look
like this higher being and I'm like, damn like and it was too uncomfortable
to look at. And then like when I would close my eyes, I
saw fractals of light in my mind of like these very massive like gestures unraveling
these massive infinite tongues at me and this infinite fractal and it was like they
were taunting me. And the sense I got from the mushroom was like I
was so uncomfortable viewing everything externally that even when I closed my eye, it's
like you're not getting away from me. We're going to show you what we
want to show you. You know, all of what you described. It
sounds very similar to is Ecal chapter one where they talk about the wheel and
the animals and there how they had eyes on different sides of the like I
feel like you're describing the vision kill. Oh, it was very uncomfortable.
It was very uncomfortable. And but you know, I again, it's like
when you have those uncomfortable experiences, you still grow. Still. Sometimes I
think sometimes I think wisdom is gained from suffering. I mean sometimes I think
we got a little be a little bit uncomfortable to grow and to heal.
And you know, it's like mushrooms in nature only consume that which is dead.
And I believe when we consume the mushrooms, they are consuming things in
our mind that which are dying. You know, these old limiting beliefs inside
of us that need to be taken away. I think the mushrooms are helping
us consume those limiting patterns and are helping us see higher perspectives. But moving
forward to D and T, this is the real thing. I have to
comment on that because that is so cool, Like I think listeners just need
a moment to soak that in, because Okay, that is amazing. And
some people have said that their mushrooms visit them, like come back and minded
in a meditation, And in the meditation they showed me as a decaying body
in a field of wheat, and more mushrooms were coming growing out of my
body and it was a beautiful death. It wasn't like a fear or gross
or like gore thing. But so that is so freaking cool that you said
that, because I never thought of it that way. So we're gonna just
mark that as this conversation is now part to my spiritual journey. Thank you
very much. Ran. I've never heard you say that either, did Were
you just like channeling? Yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I felt a
little weird, you remember how I explained to you. Sometimes I say things
and like my vision kind of I had one of those moments where I heard
heard it tune through my ears and my vision blurred a little bit. But
moving past that weird shit, yeah, So so I just I feel that
way, like it's it's consuming that those old limiting beliefs within us. And
then the other thing, Oh, this this is something I'm gonna say before
the DMT thing and then we can surely move on. But this is something
I've been thinking about for days, and I think that you have presented a
scenario in which it's the perfect time to explain this. But like, you
can look at anybody that has been practicing a hobby their whole life, you
know, like take Nick playing guitar since he was twelve, or me playing
drums since I was, you know, sixteen, or Alex surfing since however
old he was when he was adopted by his cowboy parents. But I'm sorry,
I shouldn't have said that was an inside joke from our show. I
was just trying to see if these guys were awake. But we'll get over
that later. But oh shit, adopted by his cowboy parents. Ryan unplugged
my microphone. There was that another channeling moment, you were no, that
was that was to get a reaction out of you guys to be there.
Okay, well it works. Yeah Alex is over there laughing. But anyway,
so yeah, you look at anybody who's studied a hobby their whole life,
and you have to understand, like, Okay, tell me how to
play guitar, and you can sit here and you can say, Okay,
I don't know the order of playing, you know how you would learn,
but like, maybe let's start with some scales. You put your finger on
the string on this fret or you know, maybe I'm like, you know,
put your right foot on the kick, put your left foot on the
hat, and then you're gonna put your left hand on the snare and your
right hand on the hat, and you're gonna do this, and you're gonna
do this. But you really don't learn or even come close to mastering a
skill until you've put in the time energetically touching and sensing and feeling this thing
and developing a sensitivity to it. Right, Like, you're not truly you
can hear intellectual jargon all day, but you're not really learning something until you're
sensing it, until you're feeling it, until you're experiencing it and touching it,
and over time that sensitivity develops and it grows. Right. Spiritual experiences
are no different. Right, And you just sat here and you told me
that you never really felt any sort of expansive feeling about God until you did
mushrooms, because those mushrooms allowed you to sense it and allowed you to feel
it and develop the sensitivity to the subtle spiritual dimension that's around you. You
just didn't know how to sense it, right, But when you take these
things, they blast your senses way open, where you're feeling things differently.
You're attuned to the energy in a different way, and you're developing that connection
and you're beginning to sense it. Your sensitivity is sharpening. Right, Like,
the connection to the spiritual world is no different than any other skill or
feeling that you've experienced. It's just more subtle, it's more invisible because it
exists in the dimension beyond. Right. So like, the more you have
these experiences, the more that sensitivity is sharpening, and you begin to feel
things differently. You begin to have different subconscious beliefs, the way that you
see people as different, you treat people differently. You know, the more
spiritual you become, the more you become attuned to this vibration, you start
to have thoughts, like, you know, you don't want to judge people
as much anymore. Maybe you want to help people a little more when they're
suffering. You want to be a little bit nicer to people because you've suffered,
right, So you know, Okay, I've suffered, this person is
suffering. It doesn't really feel good when I'm in a state of suffering when
people aren't kind to me. Right, Mushrooms kind of force you to suffer.
It's like a blast to the mind and you start having these I'm serious,
like, I'm dead serious. You know, the way you say things
is funny. They do they make you suffer, They force you to suffer,
they do. I'm telling you, I've had times run so wasn't that
my experience? Mine was very nurturing. But I tend to I tend to
be the person that that in the past old me would like if a stranger
bumped into me in the street, I would apologize. So I think,
you know, maybe that's what you needed suffering to learn. Well, yeah,
I've had I've had plenty of suffering in my life. But when you
start, yeah, you start from more and more and more. That's when
it gets to be a slippery slope because then you start digging really deep and
it starts bringing up stuff that's really deep, and it's like kind of forced.
I'm telling you, I've had some experiences where I'm sitting there for four
hours. Just thank god. I learned some meditative breathing technique to like,
you know, like just six seconds and six seconds out, it'll be over
soon, you know what I mean, Because you're face to face with things
that's like, you know, uh, I don't want to talk about private
you know, people dying that I've experienced that was very traumatic that I'm sitting
there, like sitting with on mush things like that, you know, like
it it can kind of force you to suffer a little bit, and exactly,
yeah, for a positive outcome, not just like to suffer. It's
anytime I have quote unquote suffered and had kind of a bad experience or a
bad trip, I definitely wouldn't call it a bad experience because overall the experience
for me personally is always positive. I've tripped a little too hard a few
times, but it's always a positive outcome for me. I always learned something
absolutely Yeah that that that's my point. But yes, Magenta so DMT.
Yeah, so last summer I did DMT, and we can forget everything we
just discussed about mushrooms now we are in a different field. DMT was so
fucking insane. It's like my friends told me, They're like, it's the
best roller coaster you'll ever ride that you can't get in the real world.
Like it's there's there's no there's no physical experience that could simulate the sensation.
So like you you know, you you you blast off or whatever. And
for me, it was like my my attachment to my body. I started
to like lose vision, and then I realized I was in the saliva that
was swallowing down my throat and I could and you feel very different when you
take DMT, Like physically you feel very weird until you take the final one
where you blast off, you know. So like I just remembered being inside
of my saliva sliding all the way down my throat and I could acutely feel
it until it got into my stomach, and then when it was swallowed,
I just disappeared and I was an avoid of blackness. But in the void,
it's like imagine being in space, but there's no stars. It's just
a giant black void that's as big as you can fathom or imagine. And
in that void was a face that I was beholden to. It was the
only thing that I could see or experience, and it was so far away
and so massive, yet it was in my face invasive, like I was
like, oh my god, like I can't get away from this. It
sees me and it was a It was what I understand to be like the
divine feminine, like the goddess or the mother or whatever. But it was
comprised of waving, non collective, non non connected, abstract lines of magenta
light. It was, Oh my god, you just described the You just
described my trip. That's that was the background that the trip was. It
was like not one solid color. It was kind of a spectrum of colors
that were themselves active. Yeah, yeah, like they were living. Yeah,
like it was the being. The being I was seeing was it was
abstract and this like you know, you draw a face, all the lines
are connected, Like I'm looking at your faces now, and there are archetypes
of like circles and squares and ovals. You see these shapes that are very
hard, they're very logical. They make sense. Everywhere you look around you
shapes make sense. What do you do, DMT. None of it makes
sense. It's all abstract. It's so foreign to the brain. Your brain
sort of melts and you can't really understand what's happening, and you're processing all
this information simultaneously. There's multiple things happening. It took weeks for it all
to come back to my memory. But the main thing was this massive face
of the It was like it was like an impression of a face that was
in flowing lines of magentle light. And then I got the incense that I
or I got the impression that I was to be trapped there forever. This
is my life now and I just have to embrace it, and you know,
goodbye to my previous life. And then it changed and I was inside
of a construct made of light. I say construct because it's like imagine a
house that kind of has like the idea of like a square structure, but
it wasn't like walls, Like it wasn't like you're being in a house.
It's like everything around me was light, like you know, you know,
if you go to like edit a photo, or you're on the computer you're
doing Microsoft Paint something of that nature, and there's like a color wheel where
the colors are connected and you could scroll the mouse. Everything around me was
like that, but they were all flowing and morphing into one of each other,
you know. And then that face that was out in the distance in
the void was a little bit of a smaller scale that I could fathom that
it was inside of this construct of light, and it was kind of like
intimate. It was kind of like it wasn't sexual, but it was like
it was very It was very connected to me. It was very intimate.
It was like showing me, you know what I mean. I felt connected
to it, like we have a bond here. But it didn't feel like
impure or weird or anything like I don't know how to describe it. Like
it was a very deep, emotional, intuitive connection. And this face was
moving through the construct and it was just giving me impressions and feelings and all
these downloads about what it was and what it was communicating to me. And
I got the sense that it was the true form of the divine feminine that
although is. You know, she appeared to my dad in the form of
a beautiful blonde hair, blue eyed lady, and you know, you get
this idea. But what I saw was like it was fierce. It changed
to be like a darker red, and then it appeared a little bit more
angry and wrathful, like it could it could devour me or destroy me if
it wanted to, but it's taken care of me. It's both right,
Like the feminine is powerful. It can create, but if it wanted to,
it could destroy, you know. It's it's just this powerful force,
and I was very afraid of it in the sense that like, I can't
fuck would you? I can't do anything. That's how I felt like literally
in DMT, I was like, I'm beholden to you, like yes,
ma'am, yes, yes, I was. Boy, I was. I
was like you know, you know, I was. I was. I
don't even know where to go from there. I was, that's okay.
Well, I wanted to ask Nick about, you know, speaking of kind
of the writing that line between the you know, real warm fuzzies and the
not so warm fuzzies. You said something earlier about something not warm and fuzzy
but in the spiritual realm, and that like growing up in church, we
were always it was always reference right, the good, the bad, the
evil, the holy, and we were always aware. And in my community
it was you know, like we didn't have cell phones then, but if
we had them and they didn't work, it would be like, oh,
that's the devil. He's trying to stop us, you know, like like
it was always a part of our daily lives and in the so silly ways,
like you know, if your technology didn't work, it was like Satan
is working against us. But it was also there was some really like gnarly
things that I can't explain. And so I know Brian has a couple of
those. But Nick, you mentioned something someone to hear from you what happened.
So I don't know that I've had I mean, I don't know I've
had any negative experiences like with the phenomenon per se. I mean, when
I first learned about it, there was a lot of fear. There was
like I was like very I'm kind of I've always been like a scared kid,
Like to this day, I don't watch a lot of horror movies and
stuff like that. Like I'll never forget the first night that Ryan and Jeremy
told me about you know, they dropped it on me like a huge bomb.
Like Ryan's brother Jeremy was like, yeah, it's probably aliens outside right
now because the dogs were barking, and I was like, oh wait what
excuse me? And Ryan was like dude, shut up, shut up,
don't don't don't say anything. Just just don't it's it's too early. Don't
tell him about this. Our documentary had just come out to our first Oh
that made it feel like even more real to me. So I was like,
what, what's but I mean no, I never I never had any
experiences with the phenomenon that were bad. Necessarily. I've had some spooky sightings
that didn't feel so good. Okay, actually, hang on, something's coming
back to me a little bit. Well, a couple of things. Actually,
now now you got my Now you got my brain jogged. They just
weren't experiences with Ryan. So one time I was at a friend's house very
late at night, and I saw a humanoid figure, like of a shadow
on a wall. And this was like we had we had like a few
friends over. This is a my buddy, Oh Raven, he's been on
the show. Shout out Raven. We were all over at Raven's house and
there was like a few of us over there. So I assumed, like,
oh, somebody's in the back room, that's their shadow. The shadow
like continued walking until I couldn't see it. So I walked back into that
room, the only place that the shadow could have been coming from and then
I look, nobody's in the room, and there's like I even opened the
closet because I was like, you're not gonna get me, Like you're not
about to get me right now. If there's somebody in this room, I'm
gonna find out open the closet nobody in there. That was like super super
eerie. And then another thing is since I was like ten or eleven,
it stopped a few years ago and is far less frequent now. But I
used to have sleep paralysis like once a month. And when I was little,
it was like really simple, basic, like bad dream stuff. But
the older I got, it started feeling more and more real in the sense
of it carries real, not consequence into my waking life. But it was
like telling me messages about it is similar to like the psilocybin thing. It
shows you things that you might need to address, even if you're not ready
to do that in a shocking exactly in an abstract and shocking way. It's
like you you probably won't even immediately understand that. That's what I meant,
Like it forces you to suffer. It's like it's not for a bad person.
It's like some things you just you feel like you're not ready to see
but you need to. Yeah. I feel like with psychedelics, you can't
sign up for what kind of experience you want to have. You have to
sign up for I want an experience, sign your name on the dotted line,
and that's the only bit of control that you have in the experience.
It could be great, it could be a panic attack. Ultimately it'll probably
benefit but similar with sleep paralysis, it was like for you, it was
just terrifying to me. There was no there was no like lesson to be
learned in my mind. There was no wisdom to be gleaned from this.
It was just like, oh, I'm being attacked by my own mind.
You know. But did you coming from the context of the church and churches
in your case that you were in, did you did you code it as
this is evil or this is double or did you have a more secular perspective
of it that it was a fabrication of your own imagination. That's a good
question, I think, I think so. What I can say for sure
is that the earliest experiences felt very malicious. They were they were like scary,
scary. There were sometimes I mean, I've had it probably over a
hundred times in my life. There were some times where it was just like
I'm frozen and I can't move, and it's like that's it, you know.
But then there were other times where there was like voices in the room.
It was like, you know that. The scariest type that used to
happen to me was like I would fall asleep, but there was no lapse
in my vision, so I thought I was still awake, and yeah,
very very very spooky, so like hearing like scary ghostly whispers in the corner.
But then I would wake up from it and realize it was a dream
kind of thing. So I have lucid dreamed a few times. But it's
it's really interesting with with like sleep paralysis. I even for a while was
like trying to train how to lucid dream, you know, because you can
there are things that you can do to increase your chances. But with sleep
paralysis, it is I am completely at the mercy of whatever this is.
So to answer your question, I don't think I ever felt like, oh,
this is like biblical demons attacking me. Even as a little kid when
I was like very in the church, it didn't even feel like that.
It just felt it. But it did feel like like malicious spirits. It
was weird. It was like, I didn't feel like it was demons,
but it felt like malicious spirits to me. I think I think that's the
best way I can answer that. I think that makes sense. It does
because I've experienced it one or two times. I've has Sley paralysis like one
or two times in my life, and each time it did feel like some
sort of malicious thing. Yeah, oh there was I mean Polder guys though,
Ryan, right, like you had Polder that's when I was awake.
But I think that's really interesting because you know, in your dad's book he
does talk about some of the negative phenomenon experience paranormal experiences that he's experienced on
the property. But well, let's clarify that. Let's clarify that the experience
is that we had weren't negative. It was the interpretation of the people around
us that was negative. You know, like the phenomenon, the Poultergeist activity
in the house was viewed as negative by my mother, who was telling us
it was scary. You know, don't talk about this, but these entities
never harmed us or did anything to us that was malicious. I mean it
like, I wouldn't say that we ever had a negative experience. It was
the people around us telling us it was negative, telling us it was demonic
or were crazy or whatever. But isn't by definition the word poltergeist or like
the category of poultergeist activity mean that it's malicious. I'm not. I don't
know, things that like cabins get opened and closed. I mean, yeah,
like, I mean, the way I think about it is just like
things bumping around in the house, that there's some sort of higher entity there
jiggling stuff around, messing with us. I mean, it's not like some
malicious spirit was like tormenting us. I mean it was like, you know,
we we definitely were like some people called it a portal. I think
it's deeper than that. I think it was just these beings messing with us.
As people had nothing to do with the property. But we were a
location where there was an extreme, shocking and unfathomable volume of activity that was
was instigated by entities from another dimension. I mean things like light bulbs being
unscrewed inside the casing, you know, the lights on in the back porch
and then the lights off and then I walk outside and the light bulbs unscrewed.
I mean, it was things like that. That's what I say is
poltergeist activity. It wasn't like stuff tormenting us. You know, it wasn't
like that. If poulter Geist is the wrong word, then then it's the
wrong word, you know. It's yeah, I don't know. That was
just you know, because you know, run to the light Caroland, like,
that's that's my idea of poulter Geist. I saw that one. I'm
telling you, I'm scared. Yeah, that's a movie. That's a movie
that's fridly as negative, but you know, living the reality of it.
Actually, every time these every time, these supernatural experiences happen, and I
can't get enough of it. And I've only actually had one sighting of any
form of entity that I felt was negative, and it was attached to an
individual who was in a very dark and depraved vibration. And it was like,
I didn't get the sense that I was having this experience, you know,
as the phenomenon or whatever. I got the sense that I was in
a state at that time. I do believe that we can slip into higher
spiritual states unconsciously and I think I was at a time where maybe I was
a little more sensitive, and I did see a shadow being attached to an
individual one time and I was like freaked out. But other than that,
no, I've had thousands of times, thousands of bizarre supernatural experience. I
mean you can again, you can ask Nick and Alex. They've combined,
they've seen beyond one hundred, one hundred and fifty orbs with us, not
to you know, the sheer number of years that we've gone through seeing that
many, so many nights. I mean it's been thousands. And there was
that one time that I just told you about that I was gared. I
mean, these entities have never invoked a feeling of fear in me. I
mean Nick was at my dad's house this summer with his whole family. We
did a whole episode about this. We had this insane group sighting and there
were orbs two feet away from Nick, all around him, and he was
walking towards them, trying to get closer because he was so he wasn't scared.
You know that he played some sick guitar and so they were like his
autograph, which if you had asked me, like prior to that. Like,
if I would be afraid of that, if I would be afraid if
that happened to me, I would say, yeah, I'd absolutely I'd be
terrified if that happened to me. But it happened, and I was I
didn't think twice. I just walked towards it. You just want to get
closer. You have a six hours, just I want more. And I've
never I mean, I've never seen anything like that. That just happened six
months ago, not even probably. I saw an entity in my room.
It physically touched me, and I wasn't afraid of it. I wish it
didn't leave. I had expand on that. Please sure, sure, sure,
I mean wherever you want to go, Like I just I want to
elaborate out there. You know, it's one thing we're talking here, But
my concern always in the back of my mind is the listener out there.
I never want to leave an image of fear in their mind. These entities
are very benevolent, you know, and and and they've never done anything to
harm any of us or scare us or Okay, well, the first time
they appeared, it scared the ship out of my dad and my brother.
But how could you play the right the first time. It was that their
intention. I doubt it, you know, but I would like to think
they least get a little kick out of it, you know what I mean.
I think I think I was listening to one interview that you did about
like anything that's in Maybe maybe it was you, but it was like anything
that's intelligent also has a sense of humor. So some at some level they've
got to, you know, have a you know, a happy hour,
like a phenomenon happy hour where they get go to them on beer or bar
and they they round up and they're like, all right, did anyone shot
their pants today? Bob's got a story. Check it out, Bob,
Bob, It's good, it's good. Yeah. The entities that I know
have healed people of cancers and other diseases, you know what I mean.
They've they've they've performed miracles that we've only ever read about in ancient texts.
But so you don't feel like there's any negative or dark forces out there at
all. They all benevolent. I'm not saying that there are dark forces,
but you know, it's up to you if you want to attract that.
What I am saying is that The entities that I have experienced are not dark
forces. They are benevolent. You know. I have experienced a particular group
of entities that I mean have occurred over seventeen years. You know, the
same orbs and all this stuff is appearing, and you know, are there
other beings out there? Sure? It's just like you go in the ocean,
there's whales, there's sharks, there's fish. You know, you go
on the farm, there's chickens, there's pigs, there's there's every biome you
go to. There's there's a diverse group of existence, you know what I
mean. There's light and there's dark. There has to be. Yeah,
I mean, we actually had one of our friends, Bobby, I mean
he's been on the show a couple of times, and he tells, I
mean one of the most bone too, now two of the most Both of
his episodes were horrific, very dark sports with witchcraft and things like that.
Like, yeah, that that stuff is real. It's out there, for
sure. It's not experiencing that. I haven't experienced that. I've met other
people who experience it. And oh and you know what they worship the fucking
devil and things like that. You know, what I mean, Oh,
well, you know you're you're, you're you're addicted to meth. You know,
you're you're doing all this dark ship. Yeah, no, no,
wonder Sherlock that you're having dark experiences. It's well, I think the fear,
Yeah, I think the fear for people that come from a background like
like I do, is the the belief that you can get a hitchhiker,
which, if you know, for people don't know what that means. It
means like you you go to a haunted place, the haunted thing hitchhikes and
follows you home, Or that you open yourself up and you invite accidentally negative
things in or third that you open the veil between the living and the dead
and you don't close it again and bad things happen. And so there's this
hesitation among people who have a spiritual background of any sort that being unskilled in
this area and also dabbling can have serious side effects. And I think that's
that's the concern, is like, oh, I don't want to fuck with
you know what I don't know about I totally get that, you know,
but like here's my perspective, right, I think we can all agree that
there is wisdom in the Bible. There's very good spiritual wisdom that I think
much of it is true, you know, in the New Testament stuff.
Anytime Jesus speaks about some sort of spiritual knowledge or wisdom, I believe he's
just as masterful as a sage as any of the other masters of you know,
these these wisdom traditions. And my point is we can be not strict
Christians and still take from what he said. And if I remember correctly,
he said that we have dominion over spirits, right, and that we could
test these spirits in their nature. And it's like, here's the thing.
There have been so many people in the last seventeen years that they spam comment
on you know, my YouTube or dad's thing. Satan could appear as an
angel of light. Satan could appear as an angel of light. Okay,
well, okay, so we're talking to a Christian here, So let's just
get down and like Christian semantics, you're telling me that we can go out
and we can pray to God and Satan can overcome and appear, right,
we can. We can pray to God, we can pray to Jesus,
and God is so weak and powerless that the devil or some malicious spirit can
invade and overcome. Like, first of all, that doesn't sound right.
You know, if you're gonna if you're gonna attack what we're actually experiencing outside
of your not you, but you know a madary person who said this,
outside of your limited little world of just commenting negative shit on the internet,
you're going to go and try to like attack somebody with real experiences over your
belief. Let's go revisit your belief. It says we have dominion over spirits,
right, Okay. It also says that when we pray to God,
that God is not a god of confusion, and that God will appear and
will you know, I don't know the scripture word for word, but my
whole point is like, how can you think that we're the only people in
the world that we go to and pray to God and we see these lights
and have these crazy experiences, and we're literally telling you and documenting all this
crazy shit and going on TV and showing that it's really happening. And we
have witnesses coming out saying, you know that they have been healed of this
kind of thing, and we're telling their story, writing about it in the
book, But like the devil is just tricking all of us and is overriding,
and you know, we're out there praying to God, but it's the
devil that's just so stupid. It's so ignorant to think that, you know,
Like, here's as simple as it is. We go outside, we
say God, please, you know, show me a sign. How how
can we like, how can we how can we fuck that up? How
can we invite something evil there? How can we invite something dark there?
You know, but alternatively, alternatively, to really hammer home your point,
I was in Tampa last week and visited my good friend Jordan, who has
been on our show. Shout out Jordan Crowder. He's a very phenomenal human
being. He has a really good TikTok channel called Alive and Kicking, and
like I said, he's just been on our show. I was talking with
him and his wife was telling me, I really hope that they're okay with
me sharing this. But his wife was telling me she had a tarot reading
in what's the town The town of Louisiana. I'm blanking the main one,
New Orleans. Yes, she had a tarot reading in New Orleans and she
felt sick and nauseous and like she had to puke and they had to go
home, and she had the sense that there was an evil spirit trying to
attach to her from the energy of the place. So yes, we can,
like we can think that we're savvy and smart and try to like engage
in these strange, you know, mystical practices, and if we don't know
what we're doing and we're not adept, I think that negative, nasty things
can attach to us. But you have to really fuck it up to walk
outside or you know, stay inside, doesn't matter, and pray to God,
pray, pray in your mind, imagine the highest, most loving,
pure vibration of light in your mind and address that and something negative a peer,
I've never heard of something like that happening. Yeah, well, I
mean it's it's part of it's part of the inner dialogue of people that come
from communities like we come from. And your dad, it's something really amazing
to say about it. When I interviewed him, his response was that that
sort of distrust of our own prayer process is part of the structural control that
keeps us tethered to, you know, the organizations that desire to you know,
direct your lives and keep us giving money and and those sorts of things.
And I thought that that was that was really insightful. And but you're
right. I have heard you say and your dad say about you know,
when y'all are going out in the backyard basically and just sort of you know,
not do a vote, like hey, we're here now, you're just
sort of like we're here, yeah, hey, yeah, could you give
us a sign? Thank you God. I wanted to ask I wanted to
ask you all about because of the correlation between prayer or meditation and the orbs.
What is your hot take on Stephen Greer. Well, let's just say
I like to that's that's tricky because it's like, you know, what I
really feel might be private. But let's say this. I don't buy it.
I just you know, it just doesn't sit right with me. You
know, somebody charging five thousand dollars a pop to shine lasers up at the
sky and uh sort of trademark this specific meditation, but there's really not like
much presented evidence that that you know, it's it's it's going on. It's
like this, it's it's like, uh, it's like an attraction it's turning
into an attraction. Like you got to do this specific protocol. And you
know, if you come to my retreat for five thousand dollars, you can
stay with me for a few nights and we'll go outside and we'll get into
a group meditation and we'll do the protocol and we'll shine light to the sky,
you know, like we just walk outside and we just pray and even
write in the book. Like you can do it too, Go try it,
you know, do it seriously. I was you go ahead. I
was just saying when I talked to you on the phone, Meredith, what
did I say? I was like, Oh, I'll be in Florida in
a few months. Yeah, where do you have Let's go SkyWatch together.
I didn't ask you to bring your check book or anything like that. You
know, like it should be free. This God, God is free to
all that. You know. Stephen Graham might not say it's God. It
might say it's being so it's an alien or whatever. But I mean,
at the end of the day, you know, the UFO subject opens the
Pandora's box. What's out there, what's out there is God? What's behind
all of it is God? Right, It's like Okham's razor. Let's cut
through the shit. Let's get to the heart of what it really is.
It's God, all of it everything. Someday people don't understand that what we
are. We gonna say it. Oh, I'm just gonna say that.
I've seen it so many times. I've been a part of it so many
times. There's no ritual, there's no I mean, obviously I believe no,
I believe that meditation could in some cases probably help, but that's never
once happened with Ryan's dad and the you know, I've been with ten fifteen
people all looking at one time. Everybody's just chit chatting. We're literally just
outside just like yo, new Zelda game about to come out. Bro,
oh my god, yeah, Jeremy. Jeremy's over here ordering a gaming chair
on his phone. And then Ryan's dad is like, everybody quit, quit
the chit chat and look up. And we look up and it's like a
light show for an hour of completely inexplicable majestic sights. That there's these lights
just doing these things that you know, you just you don't see that anywhere,
and there's no there's no smoking mirrors method, there's no method there's no
ritual, there's no nothing. It's just go outside, believe it's gonna happen,
ask for it. There it is. Isn't it so funny how we
are such ritual seeking things though we like it's almost like at first it's this
you know, existential experience, and then it becomes like how can I how
can I formula it? How can I eat it? How can I seek
it out? Make it a checklist and do it on Friday night? Yeah?
I feel like that's probably attachment to an expectation or like desiring that result,
Like, yeah, results driven, That's what I was saying, because
as humans, like we want to hit the light switch and the light come
on, Like you know what I'm saying. We want to be able to
know exactly what we need to do to have something happen every time. And
it's like that's how Madder might work, but like, our spirits don't work
that way. It's far more complex than that. But I totally get it,
like how do I write down the steps? What are the exact instructions?
Like I would be that kind of person if I didn't know that it
doesn't work that way for sure. It's just like you know, to go
back to your question about the greer thing, It's like I have seen so
many things in my life, like I just wish people could just like see
through my eyes for a moment and and and see all these lights, and
like the impact that that has on the mind and your perspective and and and
how you see things, and you know, how how you view this And
like one thing that my dad and I and my family we we really don't
like when people have the notion or the attitude that they could do some sort
of ritual protocol to like some of these beings like fucking dogs, to just
like obey their command. It's just not how it works. I'm sure that
it works sometimes where they might like, you know, they might, oh,
well, there's there's a there's a light. It's not like that these
beings have free will. As a matter of fact, they created us,
and they are from a higher perspective than we are. You know. It's
like you draw on a piece of paper, this two dimensional that entity in
the second dimension, if it if it existed in its own plane in some
limited form, and you take a pencil and you draw a hat on it,
right, you draw a little on that little character, well, that
little two dimensional character poof just had this godlike miraculous encounter where they look up
and there's a hat on their freaking head. Oh my god, some higher
dimensional form just manipulated my reality and there's a hat on my head. And
now we're here in the third dimension and we're having these experiences with beings from
a higher perspective. They are there's no difference between what they are capable of
and magic. They can defy the very laws of reality. There is no
physical obstacle to them. They told my dad in the initial encounter that they
could sometimes they'll just take your soul from your body, leave your body on
the couch at night, so you know, your wife thinks you're home asleep,
and we're gonna take you on a journey and put your soul right back
in your body. They said, we can pop out of your light bulb.
We can do whatever we want to do. We can vibrate through the
the molecules in your wall, we can get beneath the atoms, and we
can go through anything. There's nothing we can't do. They can't not do
anything. They are higher beings. If they wanted to kill me, if
they wanted to kill my family or anyone around us. They could have,
they didn't. They've They've done very good, very amazing, wonderful things throughout
my life that I've seen. And here we are now we're making a show
just to tell all about it and try to, you know, to spread
what they're all about. But it's crazy to describe them about, like all
the things that they could do this, and they could do that, and
they could flip over atoms. What I'm hearing you say is their creative and
I see creativity and that I see play, and that that's why I'm sure
they have a sense of humor, like they gotta, you know, like
because the highest I mean on earth anyway, that the things that are of
the highest intelligence they prioritize play. And so I think it's I don't know,
it's kind of cool to think about, to think about play being so
important that even these beings make it at the top of their list. And
we're over here like stress and about stuff. We're in a realm of creativity.
That's all there really is. Like creativity is God, It's all.
It's all in the same Vin diagram. Like imagine this for a second,
Like yes, scientifically, our eyeballs are perceiving everything around us. Yeah,
you can look at it that way if you want to, But you can
also look at it as like the portals in your head are drawing infinitely beautiful,
immaculate, incredible, Like you can only experience your reality through your own
eyes, no one else, even somebody sitting in the same spot as you.
It's not going to be exactly the same. Life is just one big
creative act. I think this realm that we're in is just a creative act
infinitely. And yeah, I think pure light beings that are the pure,
unfiltered essence of this realm, and the realms beyond are like that's that's gonna
be all they care about, because that's all there really is. I think
it's just creativity and then a bunch of distractions, like matter is just a
distraction. We talk about this a lot on our show, Like, you
know, if you look at pop culture and you look at it through the
lens of like maybe there's some wisdom to be gleaned, because you know,
surely people at the top of the humanity putting out the majority of you know,
pop culture, they have to be in on some sort of knowledge.
I mean, if you believe in that sort of concept, right, that
there are secret societies that you know, the top members of society are involved
in. Just just hypothetically. We see this trend in a lot of movies,
a lot of shows, a lot of art and media in general of
this sage like figure who is really light, really like like Yoda for example,
this jolly little green dude who you know, Luke Skywalker goes to train
with this ancient master and he finds him in the forest and he's just kind
of like laughing at him and just giggling, and he's really silly, and
you know, like that's kind of what I think, Like the higher you
go into wisdom, I think, the more like joyful and childlike and care
free and silly. Right. But like when I was in Mexico a few
months ago, I happened to go to this city where it's like the heartland
of this really ancient five thousand plus year old shamanic Payote tribe that still exists
today. They're one of the only ones that exists today. After you know,
Mexico was colonized or whatever, a lot of those ancient traditions were wiped
out, but this one still exists today. So I was like, dang,
this is awesome. Got home and watched a documentary on him, and
you could see like some of their most enlightened members of this shamanic tribe.
Who are the ones, like the elders of the village, Like they're just
like, you know, decrepit eighty ninety year old men, and they're just
like playing with all the kids, and they're laughing and they're smiling, and
they're joyful and silly, and they're they're they're the ones who are supposed to
be the master of this stuff. You think they'd be serious like in the
church, right, But no, I like, yeah, And I don't
think the phenomenon is any different. I think like the higher you go into
the scale of like you're you're you're you're becoming enlightened, right, keyword being
light in the middle of that word, the more enlightened you become, I
think, the more joyful and care free and you know, humorous. I'll
tell you what one night, the first major insane high strangeness encounter that I
had not to mention, you know, seeing orbs in the sky for five
years of my family, but like a like a close entity encounter. They
moved at me like cows and listen, I can confirm there are no cow
farms anywhere. Mire Ryan's out miles and miles away. Remember the lady appeared
as a bull to my dad first, So she was like, She's like,
do you think he'll get it? Guys? Do you think I didn't
get it? For five years? My mind is My mind was melted,
like like it might my brain moved out of my ears. And my dad
had to like tell me. He was like, dude, like that's your
you know. I was sitting there telling my begging him. I'm eighteen years
old at this point, five years in. Chris Junior doesn't want anything to
do with this stuff, you know, which nobody blames him for. But
he was at this point where he was running away from it, didn't want
to talk about it. And I'm outside, me and my dad are skywatching
at night in the summer, and I'm like, Dad, I I don't
understand, like why he got to be there that night and he doesn't want
anything to do with it. Here I am walking outside every night, going
out, you know, in the backyard and the dark, trying to see
them, trying to see these entities. Why won't they come to me,
Why won't they approach me? I don't understand. Why did he have this
experience? It doesn't make sense. It's not fair to me. And Dad's
like, you gotta like, you gotta be more humble, Like you have
to understand, son, these are not aliens. These are magical beings.
They're not up there spinning around in a ship spying on you with some telescope
and some you know, listening antenna. They're knowing your thoughts and passed in
the present in the future, and they know exactly what you need when you
need it. And God's time works differently than our time. He was like
it' Psycha says in the Bible, a day in God's times a thousand years
in our lifetime. And you just have to be patient and understand that when
you're ready, you'll have an experience. But first you have to understand what
it is. And he's telling me this stuff. He's like, they're magical,
they're spiritual, they're divine, and I'm like, Dad, I just
I don't understand that, Like everyone's telling me that's not so. I don't
understand that. Then they started moving at me like cows and they were all
around me. There's just cows moving all around me. There's no cows in
miles and miles. My dad got up the next day and drove around and
looked for all that. There's no cow farms five ten miles away, you
know. And I had four or five cows in my backyard. I didn't
see them, but I heard four or five cows mooing at me and my
dad and we're just standing there, like overwhelmed by the sound of these cows.
And my Dad's like, you got what you asked for. That's so
funny. It took five years to accept that. So do y'all believe that,
like the traditional i'll say, alien figures, the traditional space ship excitings,
that that is real and that's something separate than what y'all are experiencing.
I believe that, like we have two phenomenon going on there. I do
think that they have some kind of secret government stuff that they might be flying
around in some highly populated areas. I don't know that for sure, but
I kind of do tend to think that that a lot of these the world
governments have advanced crafts. Yeah, okay, yeah, stuff like that.
But I also think that, like people do see things that appear to take
that form, because sometimes entity experience are a projection of your consciousness and how
you interpret things and how you understand things. It's like a reflection of like
for example, when people were reporting UFOs in the eighteen hundreds, they were
like massive flying warships and blimps, you know, and over time it changed.
Then around the nineteen thirties or forties, we start popping up with reports
of flying boomer. Then in the forties they tell this story to the mass
consciousness, you know, that they put out all this shit about Roswell and
these flying saucers or you know, in the fifties, the culture is,
you know, they come from above and war of the world, and we
have all this imagery of flying saucers being beaten into our souls, you know,
and it's like there comes a certain point where when the collective sees something
and understands something this way, it's gonna manifest in a certain way to match
that form. Sometimes, like I think I think that, like I think
that consciousness is reflexive, right, I don't think that that that you know,
there's actual physical, alien biological abductions happening. I do think that people
have seen things that appear to be like saucers. I've seen things that looked
similar to that. What about you, Dick, Yeah, I think I
think I agree. I'm I'm the type of person that doesn't like to like
close the book on anything. So who knows, you know. I think
there's billions and billions and billions of star systems and planets and who knows what's
going out going on out there beyond our reality here. But I have read
things like Ryan's talking about, where it's a spiritual encounter that will start off
manifested as like a flying saucer, and then it'll turn into a ball of
light, and then it'll come down and then it'll turn into a humanoid figure
something something like that. So I definitely believe that that happens. And as
far as, like the actual Green booker guys on other planets and stuff,
maybe maybe I don't know. I don't see why not. Maybe I don't
close the book on nothing these days. I used to, but I think
mushrooms took that out of me. All I know is love that the lady
told my dad in twenty twelve when they first met. She said that there's
a dark force at the top of humanity scripting out the Book of Revelations to
try and force a cataclysm to bring us into this negative timeline where you know,
the biblical prophecies are true because we manifest them through fear the masses.
They're trying to constantly barrage the psyche of the masses. It's like social engineering,
you know. They want us to believe a certain outcome so much that
we play into it and that we manifest it to be true. She said
that this was happening with a great deception. There's going to be a great
deception, this push that there is this evil alien narrative that there is no
God, there is no spirit. The goal is to completely break us down
and to rip away our spiritual belief in our connection to that world. That's
the goal. She said that the deception would be to portray the phenomenon in
a negative light, completely separate from you know, spirituality and from God.
And guess what, you go look at all the mainstream alien shit and it's
you come back to me and you know, like you'll be like, dang,
you know, it's kind of looking like the shoe fits, you know,
what I mean. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, so
our aliens out there, I don't know, I don't care. You know,
I haven't experienced aliens. I've experienced beings that come from a different place,
a different realm, a different demand. They told my dad it was
like, they didn't call it the spirit world. They called it the eternal
world. That it's where we go when we die. They said that,
you know, we all become as them and we we go into orbs and
we go back to the eternal world. It's it's the grand journey of the
soul. It's immortal, the soul. This is what they said. They
said, the soul is a mortal It never dies, and it goes through
on its on its journey and goes back to the eternal world. You see
your ancestors and your family and your loved ones and all that, and you
you become reunited with them, and you know, maybe you come back.
I don't know that that's depends on the development of your soul. But yeah,
that's that's what I that's what I care about, you know, I
care about what's right in front of me, what I've what I've been experiencing.
Yeah, well, hopefully we all have a very soulful future that isn't
just the nuts and bolts and the facts, and it's joy and play and
mushrooms, joy play and mushrooms. In the title of the episode, joy
play and Mushrooms, that is, well, this has been great. You
guys, do you want to tell people where they can find your your show
and your socials and all that stuff, because I really think that my listeners
would love to continue to engage with what you have gone on. Sure,
yeah, blodsosetso dot com. That's our website. You can pretty much find
everything there through link trees and all that. Otherwise it's just blods so sets
so on all podcast apps and YouTube and we have a pretty kick ass Patreon.
But maybe get your toes wet in the show first before you start looking
at that kind of stuff. And yeah, I mean, we have a
heavy metal band, Twice Born, and I think the same goes for our
audience. I think that they will absolutely love you and your show, So
please do the same for our audience. Give them all the links and the
socials. And I'm just gonna go ahead and say, everybody out there listening
on our side, jump over to her side and listen. She please do,
please do support. Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm most active
on Instagram at Meredith for Real and my show is meredth for Real The Curious
Introvert and it's a yellow logo, and yeah, it's weekly every Monday.
All the topics are completely different week two weeks. It is very ady D
friendly, so you can kind of jump around. And I do something kind
of fun where if you, you know, kind of like YouTube gives you
recommendations off since you watched this video, you might like that video. I
kind of do that for my listeners, so it helps you kind of navigate
the variet of topics because for each episode at the very beginning and the very
end, and written in the episode description says, if you like this episode,
you will also like episode number blah blah blah. So it can become
a fun way to binge the content. Yeah. Wow, that idea.
I have to say for our listeners, show show some support. We we
we have a really a good group of people that listen to the show,
and just be sure to show her support. Her vibe is amazing and you're
just a really cool person, a really kind person. Thank you for collabbing
with us, and you know, hopefully, hopefully our listeners will see value
in each other, and you know, we'll just have like a big,
a big, big a big cousin smoke sash, a big walking, so
many strange little phrases from this conversation that I will share eternally. Thank you,
guys, I have I have to tell you real quick. I know,
I know you got to go Marridis that I do want to say.
Of all the hundreds of episodes that we've done, this was the first time
that I looked up and I was like, damn, it's been two hours.
I was going to say, this is the fastest that two hours has
ever passed. It was definitely the fastest, genuinely, and that says something.
Thank you, thank you very much. I really I enjoyed it and
I appreciate the love. And I know that my listeners will follow their curiosity
ride on over to what you guys got going on, because it's really good
and if there are anything like me, they will have a page of notes
of words and phrases and historical references that will be enjoyable rabbit trails afterwards.
Yeah, that's awesome, that's awesome. I think our listeners are going to
do the exact same with your show. I love the variety of topics,
so well, can we sign off our way? We have a ritual?
Oh okay, yeah, it's very esoteric and spooky. We just say bye
guys at the camera, all right bye. God. Weird things happen in
the backyard Blodso house and said oct it was so weird coming closer to us.
Myer say his straight up like smiring on the inside of it. No
one knows, mad, Wow, it's come for I ever did a solid
driver. Ain't happy? Can be having ch