WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.120 --> 00:00:04.879 Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris Lorenzo and welcome to this week's Thoughtful 2 00:00:04.879 --> 00:00:08.279 Thursday. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube at Hacking Your Leadership and leave 3 00:00:08.359 --> 00:00:11.039 us a review on iTunes. On this Thoughtful Thursday, we're going to be 4 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:15.919 diving in a little bit deeper into the Monday episode that just aired a few 5 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:20.440 days ago, which was part three in our four part series on you know, 6 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:23.399 overcoming dysfunctions on a team to make it, you know, more high 7 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:27.679 performing. On Monday's episode, we talked about a lack of commitment being one 8 00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:31.000 of the reasons why a team might not be high performing, and the feedback 9 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:35.119 that we got from our our listeners was that they wanted to know more about 10 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:41.920 what they can do as leaders to kind of spur more commitment from their people 11 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:45.719 when there doesn't seem to be that. And that's it's a really tough one 12 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:49.960 because it's not a universal answer for all people, Like some people need different 13 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:54.039 things than others, and a lot of it really depends on what the goals 14 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:58.880 are of your people, and so it's it's it's not just as simple as 15 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:02.719 you know they want to move up because they might necessarily want to move up. 16 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:06.599 They might have different goals than your goals. And I think a lot 17 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:11.799 of times when leaders fail at this, it's because they project their own goals 18 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:15.239 onto their people and they think, well, if this is what I want, 19 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:18.519 then this is what my people want. So if I get treated if 20 00:01:18.519 --> 00:01:21.680 I want to be treated this way by my boss, then this is how 21 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:25.719 I'm gonna treat my people because they clearly want the same things as me. 22 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:30.640 And oftentimes that kind of doesn't even land and you without the commitment that you 23 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:34.680 need from your people. So this is it's kind of a touchy subject here. 24 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:38.200 No, I agree. I think that there's elements of this that when 25 00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:42.959 in the context of high performing teams that you know, I think that there's 26 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:47.719 the surface idea of like we say, like commitment rah rah, Let's go 27 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:49.879 like, are we committed to this work? Yeah? Do we want to 28 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.799 do a great job? Absolutely, let's be the best okay, And like 29 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:57.239 there's this overall element of kind of the cheerleading commitment piece of this. But 30 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:00.879 when you start to pull back these layers of commitment. We talk a lot 31 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:04.599 on this podcast about helping people with you know, professional and personal goals, 32 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.120 and I think that's really what we mean when we say personal goals, like 33 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:12.360 do you really understand what people are trying to achieve in life? Do you 34 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.479 do? You do you understand like what they are, what drives them, 35 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:17.439 what motivates them, you know, why, why do they work hard? 36 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:21.360 Why do they want to have success at work? What do the things they're 37 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:23.719 looking to achieve? And when you start to find these things out, I 38 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:29.599 think that is very helpful in understanding people's level of commitments and and you know, 39 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:32.240 to themselves, to their families, to to their growth, to their 40 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:36.719 you know, success later on in life, whatever that might be. But 41 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:39.960 I think as leaders, these are the conversations that I think are really helpful 42 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:45.120 in helping to connect some of the dots for people to like, how does 43 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:49.360 my you know, how how does my professional work or my job help to 44 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.319 inform the things I want to get in life? And how and how do 45 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:55.879 do these things you know? Connect? And I think in theory we would 46 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:58.879 all say like, well, yeah, if you work hard, do a 47 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:00.680 good job, you can get you can make more money, you can have 48 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:05.199 more of this, and then than by kind of by proxy, you should 49 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:08.759 then be able to you know, purchase a house have some nicer things, 50 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:12.919 maybe get a new car, like these things are going to happen, but 51 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:16.439 sometimes we don't take the time to really have the dialogue around what are those 52 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:22.800 things and how do they connect, and how do you stay motivated when times 53 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:25.280 get tough, and how do you stay you know, committed to yourself and 54 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:30.000 to the work when things aren't as easy as they were before. I agree 55 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:34.680 with that. I think the tie in between that level of commitment that you 56 00:03:34.759 --> 00:03:38.120 might be asking of your people and what they see in it for themselves, 57 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:44.840 it can be harder to to kind of fit those two together if you are 58 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:49.800 dealing with people or if people are reporting to you who don't necessarily have a 59 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:53.240 clear line of sight to what they want. And I think and oftentimes because 60 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:57.879 of the you know, we talk about how there's this h there used to 61 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:00.759 be this huge separation between your work life your personal life and you leave your 62 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.280 leave your your baggage at the door, and you come in and you do 63 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:05.719 work. And that was the thing, you know, twenty years ago, 64 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:11.599 and and slowly and over time it's been we've transitioned to this. Well, 65 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:15.439 if you if you want to be a good leader, you can't expect your 66 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:18.399 people to just leave their personal life at the door. They're one person and 67 00:04:18.680 --> 00:04:24.519 they their personal life comes with them and it can impact their performance at work. 68 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:27.519 And if you, as a leader just expect them that, expect that 69 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.680 to go away, then you're gonna have a bad time because they're not going 70 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:33.199 it's not going to go away. They'll just have it impact their performance and 71 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:36.639 you'll never know, you know why it's happening. Um, if we're in, 72 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:41.879 if we've agreed that that is important to acknowledge the fact that we're not 73 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:45.279 leaving our personal life at the door, and that and that we are one 74 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:50.199 individual, then that the next logical step would be too As a leader, 75 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:55.480 you need to dig into whatever that is, whatever those things are that is 76 00:04:55.720 --> 00:05:00.519 that motivate that individual or that lead them to believe that they are in a 77 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:05.519 place that they should be to do their best work. Because nobody, nobody 78 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:12.839 wants to spend time doing anything half asked. Nobody wants to They would rather 79 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:15.959 not be doing that thing. It's just it's who we are as individuals. 80 00:05:16.360 --> 00:05:20.759 If we're doing something half asked, it means that we don't really want to 81 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:25.000 be doing it at all. And the half asked is I know I still 82 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:27.079 have to do this, so I'm going to do it anyway, but I 83 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:30.240 don't really want to be doing it. If we want to do something, 84 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:34.480 then it will show in what the work is because we will be committed to 85 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:41.240 doing it. And if your people are not trying to move up within your 86 00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:45.480 organization, like genuinely, they just look at this as a stepping stone or 87 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:46.759 they you know, this is kind of like a means to an end. 88 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:53.079 That doesn't mean that they shouldn't be or can't be committed to getting the work 89 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:57.079 done at a high performing level. It just means that you, as the 90 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:00.439 leader, have to do some work to dig into what would make them want 91 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:05.040 to do that. And they will never want to do it for the organization 92 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:10.720 air quotes. They'll want to do it for you as as their leader, 93 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:14.360 if you have set the stage for that happening. And so what I want 94 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:16.560 to ask you, Lorenzo, is if you ever had a situation where you 95 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:20.120 had a person who you knew they had it in them, You knew they 96 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:24.279 were capable of doing it because you've seen them do it, but because they 97 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:30.680 didn't look at themselves as having a future with your organization, they just you 98 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:34.079 have found up having a really hard time getting them to go to do anything 99 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:39.800 above just whatever the minimum was, and you had to kind of dig into 100 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:44.360 to figure out what was really motivating them and what could kind of turn the 101 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:46.720 tide on that so that they looked at it as they were committing to you 102 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:48.879 and not the organization. So I want to ask you that, but my 103 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:51.920 first I want to give it up towards one of our sponsors. All Right, 104 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:56.279 Lorenzo, when did you have to kind of dig deep and you know, 105 00:06:56.399 --> 00:07:00.959 find find some way of motivating an employee or or to get them to 106 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:03.560 commit when they weren't necessarily trying to move up within the organization. I think 107 00:07:03.560 --> 00:07:06.399 it's happened to multiple times in really two different ways. I think there's the 108 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:11.560 commitment around just you know, wanting to do good work or great work. 109 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:15.759 I think, and maybe I come from a different school of thought on this, 110 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:17.120 Like I don't see it as a requirement for people to have to want 111 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:20.120 to move up like in an organization, Like I just don't like I think 112 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:25.600 that the disconnect happens when somebody says, maybe I want to move up in 113 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:29.000 the organization, but then I also am not wanting to do the work like 114 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:30.279 I don't have the motivation. So that's kind of how I see that. 115 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:36.439 It is like the assumption, let's play an assumption of I want to continue 116 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:40.959 to build my career, whether that's you know, to become full time, 117 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:44.959 to get a promotion, to have a different level of responsibility. But if 118 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:47.279 we play in the context if that's what I want, but then I'm not 119 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:53.959 maybe showing the behaviors or I'm not committed to doing a level of work that 120 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:58.279 either prepares me for it or makes me the best possible candidate. Because that's 121 00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:01.720 another thing that can happen is that we can have multi people that want a 122 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:03.959 role um, but then we have to make decisions on who the best person 123 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:07.360 is for the role. So in those cases where I've had that conversation with 124 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:11.319 people, UM, that's where I've had to ask the connective questions to say, 125 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:15.720 like, let's just pull all of this back right. You're saying you 126 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:18.240 want this role, so first just just tell me why. What is it 127 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:20.079 about the role? Is it the is it how you spend your day, 128 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:26.000 is it the work that you do? Is it the element of responsibility? 129 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:28.720 Is it the compensation? Like it could be any of these things, but 130 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:31.279 like let's just start with you know what, what about this role is it 131 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:35.600 that you really want to have? Now, let's say, well why, 132 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:37.799 and we getting kind of like the practice of the five whys. Why is 133 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.919 that important to you? Why do you want that? And really what we're 134 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:45.200 looking for is like, well, how does this help you as a person? 135 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:48.840 Like look what's in this for you? And like what are you looking 136 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:54.320 to achieve maybe outside of work as a result of doing this, like like 137 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:56.200 you know, like talk a little bit more about that. And I think 138 00:08:56.360 --> 00:09:01.240 just really having that open conversation with somebody, I think it's it's it's you 139 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:03.720 know, there's there's two outcomes out of it. And I would say that 140 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:11.200 eighty to ninety percent of the time, the outcome is having a conversation where 141 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:16.960 I'm helping someone connect the dots of their personal goals, their personal aspirations, 142 00:09:16.960 --> 00:09:22.279 what they want to achieve and why it's you know, like like like doing 143 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.360 well at work or pushing themselves to to bring more or to learn and to 144 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:31.080 grow and develop, like how that helps to inform their personal goals. And 145 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:35.279 like I said, eighty to ninety percent of the time that conversation happens, 146 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:39.039 some of those connections are met and people say, I understand, and that 147 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:41.759 makes sense to me, and you know, I'm going to, um, 148 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:46.120 I'm going to you know, look to to to show up in a different 149 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:50.120 way so that I can achieve that goal that I have at work. UM. 150 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:52.080 And again not that not that eighty nine percent is successful. I'm just 151 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:56.159 saying that eighty ninety percent of the conversations are in that positive way or in 152 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:00.519 down that direction. The other ten to twenty percent, I think in that 153 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:05.080 conversation we tend to uncover that maybe this isn't the right work that they want 154 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:09.039 to do because the personal goal or the thing they want to achieve, or 155 00:10:09.039 --> 00:10:13.320 the life they want to live, or just the thing in general that they 156 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:18.879 want out of life is not something that the job, the role, the 157 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.600 industry, whatever, is going to help them get there in the way they 158 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:26.799 want to. And that's okay too, because I think that that's important to 159 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:31.840 have that conversation sometimes when we see people that may not be motivated. And 160 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:35.399 again we're we're talking about high performing teams here, but I think in a 161 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:37.720 high performing team, you need to know these answers for every single person on 162 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:41.360 the team. Because when it gets tough, that's when they need to lean 163 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:45.840 into it. But I think it's just as important that we have the conversation 164 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:48.840 with people where it ends with you know what, like maybe this isn't the 165 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:52.879 right, you know, direction for me, And then I get to say, 166 00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:56.639 but that's okay, because like, as long as you're willing to do 167 00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:00.639 the work or good work here or great work here, you know you're able 168 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:03.840 to meet expectations, that's perfectly fine. While you figure out what it is 169 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:07.360 that you want to do or the direction that you want to go. And 170 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:11.159 as long as you're doing good work here, I'm all in in helping, 171 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:15.559 whether it's my network, whether it's perspective, whether it's plugging you in with 172 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.519 other people, like like, I will be more than willing to help you 173 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:22.240 get to that other thing that you want to accomplish, so long as you're 174 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:24.960 doing good work here. But then we can, we can. We don't 175 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.720 have to spend all this time like trying to figure out how do you give 176 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:33.200 you know even more, or how do you fully commit to wanting to move 177 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:37.360 your career that might happen, that might happen as a result of you doing 178 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:41.919 good work But I think this should really really important conversations to have and and 179 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:46.320 to make sure that we are we're both moving in the right direction and that 180 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:48.600 we're really clear on the goals that we're looking to try to achieve together. 181 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:52.159 Yeah, I agree with that. I think I think where a lot of 182 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:54.159 times this gets lost though, and I think the leaders that do this well 183 00:11:54.200 --> 00:12:01.240 are the are the ones who have managed to make it clear that high performing. 184 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:11.080 High performance is not above and beyond. High performance is not doing doing 185 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:15.759 more work than what is being asked of you. High performance is what is 186 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:20.840 being asked the team is. The team needs to be a high performing team, 187 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:28.120 and and people doing only work that they're not committed to will not get 188 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:33.120 you to high performing, which means the expectation that the expectation of the role 189 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:37.120 is a commitment to whatever that work is. And if there are employees who 190 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:39.840 are showing up, who are doing work that it's clear they're not committed to, 191 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:45.279 that doesn't mean that they're doing you know, like we talk about doing 192 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:48.039 the bare minimum. Well, the bare minimum is being a high performing team. 193 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:52.200 That's what is the expectation. And if and if a person is doing 194 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:56.759 what is expected of them, then you will have a high performing team. 195 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:00.559 And so if you're a leader, it's just so important to make sure that 196 00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:03.320 you like you owe it to the people on your team who are committed and 197 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:05.559 who are doing good work, who are who do want to be members of 198 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:09.559 a high performing team, to make sure that everybody on that team is also 199 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.799 committed to doing that as well. And if they're not, then that's fine, 200 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:16.840 but they need to be moved off. They moved out of the team, 201 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:22.639 as opposed to being allowed to do less than committed work simply because they 202 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.320 believe that committing to the work is somehow more than what they're being paid for, 203 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:30.399 more than what they signed up for. And so if you can, 204 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:33.399 if you can make that tie in that that is the minimum, the minimum 205 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:35.240 standard is what will get us to be a high performing team. I think 206 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:37.240 that you can go a lot further with that. Yeah, no, I 207 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:41.039 appreciate that. I think the you know, just to add a point to 208 00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:46.039 that, I think that it's important to also, like we've talked about the 209 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:50.759 different ways in which this kind of builds on for a high performing team, 210 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:54.919 you cannot start here. You cannot start with saying, oh, congratulations, 211 00:13:54.919 --> 00:13:56.679 everyone, we are now a high performing team because I said so, right, 212 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:00.200 and if you're not committed to being a high performing you can't be here 213 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:03.200 anymore. That's not that's not going to get you. You need to do 214 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.320 the first steps right to get to the point of then saying, as a 215 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:11.279 result of the fact that we are high performing and we want to maintain the 216 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.120 consistency that we have in our performance, we have to commit to one another 217 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:18.519 that this is the body of work that we want to do when we move 218 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:22.399 collectively together. UM. So I just want to add that a little bit 219 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:24.879 of a caveat because I think it's important. Um if especially if people are 220 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:28.559 like hearing this episode first before the other ones, yes, to think like 221 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.879 you cannot start here and then say like this is the new bar. Um. 222 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.000 The only time that you can do that is if the if, the 223 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:41.200 if the results and if the behaviors are well below an expectation, you can 224 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:45.480 say this is the expectation, um at the bottom of where we want to 225 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:48.240 be, and then we're going to go up from here. But you can't 226 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:50.039 make that mistake, because I've seen that happen, and that can it can 227 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.840 get dangerous very quickly, right right. If you're if you're taking over a 228 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:58.600 team that is woefully underperforming, then then there could be a minimum standard that 229 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:03.919 they have to reach in order to just kind of, you know, stop 230 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:07.240 the bleeding whatever that is right, and and then that could be expected that 231 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.879 that could be expected where you have objective results on paper. I don't think 232 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:15.279 that's necessarily high performing. That's just we want to show that this that we're 233 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.120 not that we're not the boat's not about to sink here. That's different. 234 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:22.440 Once you get to the level where the boat's not sinking anymore, then that's 235 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:26.240 that's the next step, which is, Hey, now, as a leader, 236 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:28.759 this is what I'm committing to you. Let's talk about what your goals 237 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:31.480 are. Let's commit to this. But yes, that has to be done 238 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:35.440 first. If you were doing that, though, you owe it to your 239 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:39.000 team to be able to ask that in return of everybody on the team. 240 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:41.840 If you know that you're doing your part as a leader, you can ask 241 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:46.399 that of your team and you have you have an obligation to do that absolutely, 242 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:48.600 And with that it brings us to the end of this episode. This 243 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:52.519 is hacking your leadership. M Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and have a great day.