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Yollo, everybody. Today we're talking
about Christians blurring fascist lions. There's an

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article at Religious and Religion News dot
com by Karen Swallow titled for too many

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Christians, the lions between dominionism,
nationalism, and fascism are blurred, and

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the author is concerned that people are
taking their Christian and maybe a little too

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far, and that maybe not only
that, but that the people that are

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part of it are kind of going
along for the ride and not really thinking

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critically about what their leaders are telling
them to do. Cynthia, Yeah,

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this is interesting. Specifically, one
of the things that Karen mentioned was the

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Wave experiment. Aaron, I know
that you you know, did a little

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diving into the wave experiment. You
want to explain or to talk to our

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audience about specifically what that was.
Yeah. Sure. So there was a

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teacher, I think it was I
think it was high school, Yeah,

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where his class was very confused,
like how could people go along with the

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Nazi Party in Germany? How can
people didn't stand up stand up against it?

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And so he started a little experiment, you know, he started them

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one day, uh, you know, writing a slogan on the wall.

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But he was it was said strength
through discipline, and he gave some rules

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about how you're supposed to stand up
straight and be quiet, how you're supposed

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to behave and and some other you
know, strict rules. Well, by

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the next day he showed up a
class and I guess these students took it

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very seriously, and they were they
were they were even though it wasn't supposed

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to happen next day and he didn't
ask them too. They were still standing

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up straight and following the rules,
and so that the teacher kind of took

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it a little bit further. And
it was this point I was starting to

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think, Um, somebody needs to
have a talk with the teacher, because

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I think he took this maybe a
little too far. But then the second

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day is when you know, he
rolled. He put on another slogan on

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the board. This time I think
it was strength through community. And and

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then he gave this movement a name
called the third wave, which is a

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reference to in surfing. He was
a surfer, and in reference in surf,

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servers believe that the every third wave
is the most powerful wave. Not

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sure that's true or not. He
created a salute similar to the Nazi salute,

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kind of uncomfortable, and then they
were supposed to class members were supposed

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to salute each other, and they
had to recruit their friends. And the

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third day he had another slogan,
strength through action, and I believe that's

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the day when he recruited. He
silently recruited people to start informing on their

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students right where ever, to put
their head down, and he randomly chose

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some students to be basically the Gestapo, the secret police, and those those

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members could accuse anybody of anything,
and at the start of the class,

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the teacher would say, well,
this so and so has been accused of

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such and such, and the class
had to vote on whether or not the

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charges were true and things like that, and this got taken really, really

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far. And at one point one
of the students follow was acting as a

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bodyguard to teacher who walked into the
teachers lodges and the teachers were like,

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dude, get out of here.
You're a student, and they replied,

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I'm not a student, I'm a
bodyguard. So these students they really this

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is over three days, and finally
on the fourth day he had an assembly

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where he brought everybody together and he
said there was going to be a national

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broadcast where this third wave was actually
gonna be rolled out across the country and

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people were going to be a part
of it. And it turns out that's

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when he revealed that this has all
been something he just made up, wasn't

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real. And I'm not sure how
he made the point to his students,

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rough if they kind of figured out
themselves that, oh, we were wondering

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why things happened like this in Nazi
Germany, and we kind of felt susceptible

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to them ourselves. We didn't really
stand up when all this this this fascist

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rhetoric and behavior and authoritarism was going
on in our classroom. So point to

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take it, man, Yeah,
I don't know when I was reading about

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the experiment and I was seeing like
this happened on day one, this happened

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on day two, and then like
how in less than one week this whole

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experiment blew up to actually show how
fascism worked. So taking this particular point

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about the wave experience and even some
I don't know if there's like a certain

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findings or observations, Um, I'm
curious to know from I'm gonna ask tale

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and I want to and then you
Aaron, how do you see that specifically

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in let's just say, like the
American politics, and how specifically about like

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I don't know if I can say
like Crystal fascists or Krystal nationalists are behaving.

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Now we'll storry. Yeah, sure, I'll ask the Latino cartoon what

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he thinks about the USA politics.
If you want something interesting, No,

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no, we don't want to know. We don't want to know, Okay,

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So I to learn about this the
Wave thing experiment. I learned something

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interesting. There was another wave in
twenty o eight, and I had to

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check this. They one from nineteen
eighty one was actually a mini movie for

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TV. Something interesting that I learned, And I decided to check how the

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movie can compare to nowadays USA politics, and I probably would what happened after

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the end of Obama's administration, and
you know why, there is a pot

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There were some published movements that appeared
in the movie The Wave. It delves

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into the lure of authoritarism and how
published movement can emerge. Similarly, in

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the political landscape of the United States, there were some instances of pubulist movements

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that started gaining traction, and suddenly
there was an orange guy in the Oval

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office. It was weird. And
then you start checking about more things that

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happened, such as polarization and this
division, polarization and division between the country,

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reaction to change those lessons about vigils
that Aaron said, well, we

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have talked about some stuff that are
like, okay, this is all right,

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but they happened under this democratic government
in the USA. And then what

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really worries me is that, as
Aaron said, suddenly the teacher had a

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bodyguard protecting him. Students kind of
form mea coats around him. And I

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have talked about the coat to Trump
before, how dangerous it is, how

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it was getting out of control,
and how it nowadays it keeps going on

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and apparently they want to, you
know, they one certain guy back in

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power. Another important thing that I
could compare between the movie and the USA

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are the appeals to authority. I
don't know, but that guy that I

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was mentioning now is being investigated,
research and there are specific codes that are

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ready to take guns and start shooting
people if this guy goes to jail because

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of the crimes that he committed.
And all of this is based on a

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sense of unity and belonging because they
believe that they are victims and they are

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part of this big group, and
actually they are turning into a big group,

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and they are very susceptible to group
thinking, and they create this ask

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versus the mentality. So the whole
country that is not part of their code

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is against them, and they follow
this very charismatic leader. Once again,

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charismatic leadership part of the movie,
part of what happens in the USA,

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sadly, and all of these create
recipe for disaster. And if you remember

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in the end of course, things
got out of control at school, didn't

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didn't You guys had like an attack
in the capital because of something like this

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that got out of control because a
certain guy who lost didn't want you didn't

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watch up said that he lost.
Vaguely, I remember something happening around in

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January. Do you think it was
the six six comes to mind? Yeah,

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yeah, love man like to begin
twenty twenty one, something like that.

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I can't remember a little because I
was still kind of skinny, so

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you know, I remember that time
a little well, it was a little

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hullabalue, little scuffle. We always
remember our skinniest times, man. Man.

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The deep irony, the deep irony
of being a human being is that

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we are social and deep and tribal
at the same time. Yeah, you

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would think that social creatures, it
wouldn't matter. Let's talk, get together,

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let's be Why can't we more like
panobos? Right, they just get

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together, have a good time,
have sex, have good time. But

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no, not not we are we
social, but we're super super tribal.

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And we formed these groups and we
and we and we hate everybody that's not

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part of our group and we demonize
them and we and we can do and

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we're capable of doing terrible things.
This wave experiment is not an isolated incident.

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There was the Stanford prison experiment where
the some Standford researchers puts up some

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students in charge of other people's guards, and other people were assigned to be

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prisoners, and they were kind of
going through the motions of being and prisoners

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and guards, and they had to
stop the experiment because the guards were doing

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things that they were out of control. And then there's another teacher. There's

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a Frontline PBS documentary called A Class
Divided that you can fund on YouTube about

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a teacher who's trying to illustrate the
how terrible racism is and she chose to

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use eye color. Yeah, and
so and so if you had if you

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had brown eyes, you couldn't know. You couldn't you didn't have certain privileges.

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And she would say really derogatory things
about about people with brown eye all

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those brown eye peoples, they're not
as smart, all those brown peels.

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They don't deserve this. And it
didn't in this case, it didn't get

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out of hand, but it really
kind of opened the eyes as some of

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the students like, it's not cool
just because I have brown eyes that,

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uh, you think this about me? And some of the kids these are

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like this is elementary middle school kids. These are young kids, and they

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were saying things like, yeah,
because she was saying bad things about me,

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I started to think that those bad
things were true. Yeah, I

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think that I think that actually was. She was disparaging blue eyes. So

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she separated people who have brown eyes
blue eyes. Yeah, and the blue

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eyed people were like the terrible you
know, horrible people, and she disparaged

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them. And then afterwards, you
know, she's like, how do you

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really feel like She's like, oh, man, I started to believe what

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she said, but it's she's like, oh, those blue eyed people like

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it sounds like it seemed to like
she really believed what she was saying that

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it was quite chilling, you you
know. And it's kind of funny because,

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like I think that uh, recently, um, I forgot specifically what

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the rally was called, but Trump
was invited to a to address a certain

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rally. I think it was like
this moment, you know, the moment

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is now rally something like that.
Don't don't get me the long end.

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Look it up, y'all. He
was at a rally. He addressed it,

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and and one of the things that
he was saying is that, you

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know, we're going to basically get
rid of the the arsonists, the leftist,

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the social de Marxist um, the
in the atheist. Yes people us

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us, we we gone out of
here, you know. And it's and

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it's kind of interesting because like I
think about, like all of a sudden,

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how Trump kind of became Christian per
se more so was like, you

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know, to help advance a political
career. Not necessarily because it is this

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something that his disbelief. I don't
know, I'm not necessarily in his head,

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but I you know, I would
conjecture that his lifestyle per se is

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antithetical to what Christian lifestyles supposedly supposed
to be. And I would and I

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would, and because of what my
observation is, I would say that you

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probably have more in common with the
atheist than not, you know. But

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at the same time, I think
that one of the things that the Wave

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Experiment in some of these other experiments
possibly discounted a little bit, is or

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maybe they kind of showed it's the
power of propaganda, you know, Like

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you mentioned, Aaron, when Jane
Elliott did her blue Eye brown Eye versus

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Brown Eye experiment and how she continued
to say these disparaging things to the Blue

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Eye people and to the point where
some of them actually started to believe the

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things that she was saying, you
know. Or when in the Wave experiment,

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when he was constantly emphasizing to them
on day one, how to you

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know, put themselves in this particular
posture, sit up straight, stand up

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straight, to the point where they
were carrying it over to the next day

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because this was constantly being propagated to
them. And I think that we can't

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completely discount how that happens in this
whole area to why these particular fascist sensibilities

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coupled with Christian beliefs start to pop
up. Um, I'm curious. You

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know, what do you guys think
about what I just said? Um,

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Aaron, I'll start with you and
then Teo. Yeah, I'm just wanting

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we're even as atheists, we're not
immune to stuff like this. We're still

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human, right, So how do
we innoculate ourselves against these kinds of uh,

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these these very um outgoing and uh
what's the word. I'm looking for

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people that are super charming, charismatic
people. You know, we want to

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belong so badly and we could,
we could easily get sucked into charismatic people.

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That's why they're still conars and and
people to take advantage of this.

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That's why spam works and crank calls
work and all that stuff. Because we

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want to be long and we don't
want to be looked down upon. We

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want to be accepted. And I
just I don't I'm not I'm not of

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human behavior experts, so I don't. I don't know if I have the

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answer how we prevent this ourselves from
being taken advantage of this way? Tell

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do you have any ideas? Yes? And actually, this is one of

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the reasons why many atheists who by
the way, this applies only to atheists

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who used to be hardcore Christians and
then they became atheists because they had to

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apply a lot of logical thinking and
critical thinking skills. Therefore, now they

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have more protection against the scamps and
against the culti mentality because once that you

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start applying critical thinking, you start
analyzing the things that surround you before you

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just go and accept it. Sorry, this is going to not totally inoculate

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you, but you're going to start
seeing the red flags. You're going to

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start realizing, a, I left
religion because I saw these this and these

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bad things, and now I'm seeing
these this and these other bad things in

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here. And all of this comes
from education. And actually, I think

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that one of the reasons why the
Seven Mountains and the education is the most

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important part of them all is because
when you educate people, you teach them

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how to think, not what you
think. They inocurate themselves against this group

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mentality or not total innocurately, but
they are aware of that. So it's

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harder for them to just go and
blindly accept the things that the majority says

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or the charismatic leader sense says.
And that's why religious groups attack so much

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education. And that's why I think
that education is going to be the strongest

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point that you people should try to
fix over there in the USA, because

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I have seen and whenever I come
here, I see some new attack.

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Education teachers being fired for teaching the
truth, teachers being fired for teaching art,

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teachers being fired for saying that racism
is bad and it's awful that you

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cannot teach real historical students because that
goes against some feelings. You cannot explain

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how science works because that goes against
their religion. You cannot talk even about

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I don't know, basic staff,
such a social behavior because that's progressive,

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or sexual education because oh no,
the want our children to do things in

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the bedroom like no. So I
think that you're thinking of fixing in negations

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is what the USA should be doing. Because I've said it before, and

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I would say it again. You
would say, you scare me, you

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scare me, I love you,
know, Um, it's actually a bit

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of the opposite tale. They're teaching
you what to think, not how,

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and one of the things that,
yeah, that is a problem and one

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of the things that should be taught
in schools. I advocated for it.

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Even one of our fellow nonprofits,
shout out to Cindy plaza Is, also

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pushes this even with her channel,
The Path to Reason about how to teach

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critical thinking and skepticism, And the
reason being is because again, as you

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said, it may not completely inoculate
you from being conned in certain ways,

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but it would definitely create some type
of barrier against people trying to push things

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onto you that may be not quite
true or completely alive. And I think

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that one of the things that the
Wave experiment and experiments like it that have

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been conducted to show how fascism can
actually grow even in a considered progressive society,

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is because we still have an issue
where we are telling our children and

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people around us what to think.
Even when you're looking at the fourth Estate,

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we had whole studios and network sued
because they were telling people what to

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think and the thing that they were
telling people what to think was not true.

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And this is where skepticism, critical
thinking, freethought, and everything of

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in that particular realm needs to be
the leading factor in any of these conversations,

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because without it, I really believe
that fascism will prevail, including in

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the land of the free and the
home of the brave. But if you,

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dear viewer, are brave enough to
learn a little bit more or to

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watch a little bit more of what
the nonprofits have to say about things like air