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Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your
host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, Hi,

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I hope you're doing well. I
had a great opportunity at this conference,

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Contact in the Desert, which is
really focused on UFOs alien abductions,

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the phenomenon which has been rebranded as
UAPs Unidentified aerial phenomenon, and the beans

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flying them. And it's really quite
interesting that since that conference there's been a

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tremendous amount of information coming out from
the military, and most notably a whistle

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blower known as David Grish, and
we're going to talk about him in a

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minute. But today's program is focused
on government releasing data or government's knowledge of

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UFOs UAPs. Now, if you've
been listening to me for a few years

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now, I've had a great interest
in this phenomenon directly, and twenty years

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ago, i'd say maybe even twenty
five years ago, I would program direct

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conferences and focus on the latest and
the greatest people at that time. In

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subsequently years, I became frustrated because
it just wasn't moving quick enough. We

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weren't having disclosure for the government.
NASA was covering up all kinds of stuff,

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and they continue to cover up material
Department of Defense Space Command, even

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the European Space Agency was not coming
clean and was adherent. It appeared adherent

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to this document known as the Brookings
Institute Research and Clarification Document, which basically

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says that the United States citizens would
have a complete meltdown in the face of

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disclosing the fact that we are not
alone, that there perhaps is evidence of

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an ancient alien civilization on Mars,
on the Moon, perhaps even evidence here

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on Earth that there was an alien
civilization. Now, the TV program Ancient

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Aliens, I believe goes a little
too far. They highlight and speculate a

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little too much in my book,
and what that means is that what they

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cannot explain, like the Great Pyramid, the Osyrian, the Sphinx, and

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hundreds, if not thousands of other
anomalies they attribute to aliens. That's flat

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out just over the top wrong.
But I will say this, and my

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guest today is part of the Ancient
alien group. His name is Nick Pope.

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And what makes Nick so fascinating is
that he used to work for the

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Ministry of Defense in England and he
was a investigator of not only at that

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time UFOs, but also the alien
Abduction phenomenon, the alien contact phenomenon,

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and civilian activity related to sightings,
and we'll talk about that when we have

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him on the program. But my
great frustration over the years is this cover

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up of this information. And I
think I've read this a few weeks ago

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that on a yearly basis, there
are something like ten to sixteen thousand sightings

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around the world, thousands of sightings, and some of them can be just

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you know, they used to use
the term swamp gas. Some of them

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can be sudden reflections and what do
they call that, flyovers by comments,

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by satellites, so forth, and
so on that are moving in the sky.

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But there is a huge phenomenon,
a huge number that are actual off

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world vehicles flown by intelligence beings from
other planetary systems. It's time, and

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I will say this again, to
give us the information our government and those

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governments outside of the United States fill
that we are too sensitive, we're too

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childlike, we're too adolescent to have
this information delivered to us in an adult

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manner. And because they covered up, they're causing themselves more problems now recently.

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And we talk about this all the
time on Destiny as well as or

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ancients the Department of Defense requisitioned a
group of theologians. These are religious people

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like priests and pastors and other religious
heads of church, to say, to

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ask them what they felt would be
our reaction to this disclosure of an alien

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civilization surveying us, observing us,
and in some cases landing and either taking

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samples of the earth and animals,
in some cases contacting human beings. What

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would be our reaction? Now,
for the most part, they still believe

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and this is what's so crazy about
this, And I'm gonna tell you why

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in a second. Rather, the
religious side of it still feels threatened.

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Perhaps an advanced civilization a thousand,
ten thousand years or more would question the

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whole religious fundamentalism, religious Why you
know why religion? Why do you need

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religion? We don't know, but
they feel uncomfortable. But you know what,

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why did they ask a religious group, the theologians? Their opinion religion

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is fading. People are leaving the
church in droves. Thousands of people every

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year leave the Catholic Church, the
Protestant Church, and so forth and so

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on. If you are a religious
person, what I'm telling you probably is

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a little upsetting. I don't want
to upset you. My point being is

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the church is not the place to
ask this question. They should and they'll

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be better off getting a really good
gauge as to the reaction of earth United

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States citizens. Ask social media.
Ask those people in Facebook, Instagram,

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Twitter, TikTok, ask those people. Now, it's going to be a

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younger audience. The older audience is
less likely to be a part of that.

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But you have people in their eighties
and beyond still looking at Facebook,

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still tweeting, still, you know, filling their pages with images for Instagram.

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Those are the people who are reading
the papers, who are wanting to

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know what's happening with their state,
with their country, with the world.

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They are the ones to ask.
And I bet you and I can almost

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guarantee that if they were to be
surveyed what their opinion is in contact,

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if an alien civilization was discovered surveying
us, observing us, and we were

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able to identify their craft and the
pilots behind these UAPs, we would want

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to know. Those people would want
to know. And this is how pardon

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me asked backward the United States government
is and I think this is why these

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whistleblowers are starting to show up now. I'm going to play you a short

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interview with David Grish. He's a
former Air Force intelligence officer. This is

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something that just happened. He is
revealing that there is a special ops in

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the United States government that has retrieved
you fos in full and complete form and

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damned form. And he also goes
on to say that they've also retrieved dead

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pilots. He uses the term pilots. I think that's funny, rather than

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occupants of uf UFOs an he's a
Air Force guy, it's the pilots.

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So this is how a quick listen. This is a show that aired a

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couple of days ago, and this
is wonderful because this is what is happening.

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The service is like kind of blowing
up, imploding under the pressure of

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this data. And these are servicemen
and women who are dedicated to the United

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States, but they've had about enough
of it. So have a quick listen.

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You are one of the most trusted
former intelligence officials in the US to

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thins and intelligence establishment. Yes,
I was. You were trusted of the

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most intimate secrets. Yes, what
conclusion did you come to at the end

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of your time on the UAP Task
Force? The UAP Task Force was refused

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access to a broad crash retrieval program. When you say crash retrieval, what

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do you mean? These are retrieving
non human origin technical vehicles. You know,

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call it spacecraft if you will,
non human exotic origin vehicles that have

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either landed or crashed. We have
spicecraft from another species, we do.

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Yeah? How many? Quite a
number? You're kidding now. I thought

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it was totally nuts, and I
thought at first I was being deceived.

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It was a ruse. People started
confiding in me, They approached me.

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I have plenty of current former senior
intelligence officers that came to me, many

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which I knew almost my whole career, that can confided in me. They

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were a part of a program.
They named the program. I've never heard

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of it. And they told me, based on their oral testimony, and

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they provided me documents and other other
proof that there was in fact a program

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that the UAP Task Force was not
read into. If you're right, if

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you're telling us the truth, everyone, the entire American public has been lied

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to for decades. Yeah, there's
a sophisticated disinformation campaign targeting the US populace,

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which is extremely unethical and immoral.
U as saying to the human race.

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For the first time, an official
intelligence representative at a high level from

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the US government is saying publicly,
we are not alone. We're definitely not

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alone. Absolutely, the data points
empirically that we're not alone. Yeah.

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Do we have bodies? Do we
have species? Both? Well, naturally,

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when you recover something that's either landed
or crashed, sometimes you encounter dead

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pilots And I believe it or not. As as fantastical as that sounds,

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it's true. So I've got to
be bunt about this. You're not making

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this up. This is not a
lie. No, absolutely not, Because

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everybody watching this right now is looking
at your face. They're going, it's

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this guy for real. I am
for real, and I'm you know,

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I'm sitting here at great personal risk
and obvious professional risk by talking to you

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today. Now I mentioned this to
you before. There is a book written

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by Colonel Philip Corso who was a
former intelligence officer for the United States government

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and he was in charge of retrieving
technology from down ships. He wrote a

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book called The Day After Roswell.
If you don't have this book, you

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need to get it as a quick
read. It's a very important book.

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He describes the technology that has been
reverse engineered and included in our society.

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This is silicon chips, this is
laser technology, is high technology that we

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have you know, actually, like
I said, reverse engineered and is now

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part of our society. His book
was mind blowing to a lot of people,

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but it also greatly upset the military
because it kind of takes the item

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behind the curtain and reveals it to
the general public. This kind of revelation

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to the people. They want to
keep it all undercover. You can't keep

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it undercover anymore. And as you
heard from Grish, this is the tip

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of the iceberg. We've known for
a long time that Area fifty one in

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Nevada houses a number of UFOs or
UAPs. There's one that was found in

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a cave that is dated to thousands
of years in the past, which reveals

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that this observation of earthlings, that's
you and me, has been going on

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thousands of years or longer. And
this is something that we need to begin

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to understand. We need to make
it more open. We need to understand

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who is observing us, what the
government knows. You know, if it's

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true, and this is a rumor, I've talked about in the past that

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President Eisenhower signing an agreement with an
alien race. Why why did he do

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that, What was the agreement,
and what does it mean for us average

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folk who are just curious about the
other civilizations who are out there. So

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I think there's kind of a break. There's a break in the cover up,

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there's a break in the secrecy,
and I'm excited. I mean,

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I've always hoped that in my lifetime
we will know who we are in the

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universe and the cosmos, who our
neighbors are, and to have a chance

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to interact with off world types,
extraterrestrials from other nearby planets and we automatically

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move into a different age. I
think it's really time, especially in this

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potential nuclear war with Russia and Ukraine
and China and so, you know,

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I think it's time as a civilization
Earth civilization, that we begin to move

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beyond the warring ways and go to
the next step. Because our planet is

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having a hard time. We're really
not paying attention to our planets wellness.

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And I think when we know that
we're at a certain phase in our development

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as compared to our neighbors and nearby
planets we can evolve, and this is

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critical. We need to evolve.
So our program today is with Nick Pope,

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and we're going to learn about how
the government reacts, or i should

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say, how governments react to UFO
sightings, landings, abductions and interactions and

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what perhaps we can expect in the
future. Now he doesn't really prognosticate that

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much, but we get a good
sense of how our government is ill equipped,

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really ill equipped to handle this,
and what the reaction is when there

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is sightings, why they would rebrand
UFOs to UAPs, and that's a real

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big one for me, and other
strategies that the government uses to keep this

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material top secret. So today's program
with Nick Pope is called First Contact.

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Nick Pope has worked in the UK
Ministry of Defense for twenty one years.

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For three of those years his responsibility
is included investigating UFO sightings and any impact

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they may have on UK national defense. He is the author of several books,

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including Open Skies, Closed Minds,
The Uninvited, and co author of

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Encounters in Rindall'sham Forest. He has
worked on a number of programs and TV

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series and is a regular on Ancient
Aliens. We're Here at Contact in the

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Desert. We're in the Palm Springs
area of California and we are talking to

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a number of the prisoners. We
have a keynote. Nick Pope is with

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us. I've been wanting to speak
with Nick for a number of years and

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he is a former Ministry of Defense
employee. Actually was with him for a

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number of years. And it is
wonderful to have you with us and have

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you here in California. Nick,
Welcome to Earth Ancients. Thank you.

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It's great to be on the show. I got to ask you read the

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top there has been a rebranding of
the UFO phenomenon from Unidentified Flying Objects to

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UAP Unidentified Aerial phenomenon. Why do
you think NASA did that and why is

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that it's so important? Well,
it's not just NASA, it's the government

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as a whole. And actually interesting
you asked me that because I played a

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direct role in that, and it's
something that goes back to the nineties to

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something that happened at the UK Ministry
of Defense. We had felt for a

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long time that we were hampered in
our work on this issue by the pop

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culture baggage that the term UFO had, so in other words, the stigmatization,

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the association with this being fringe conspiracy, science fiction. We treated it

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as a serious defense and national security
issue and a safety of flight issue,

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but we found it difficult getting engagement
within the ministry. I'm not talking about

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with the public. I'm talking about
engagement with senior stakeholders in the Ministry of

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Defense who we wanted to take this
more seriously, we wanted more resources put

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on it. We were not going
to get in the door of any senior

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people for meetings if we said,
can we come talk to you about your

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efforts. But what we did is
we rebranded. So we said, we

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need to talk to you about a
serious defense and national security issue that may

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involve an adversary Russia or China,
or it may involve some exotic atmospheric plasma

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phenomena, whatever it is, whatever
we're dealing with, um, it's it's

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it's kind of serious and we need
we need something done. And also it's

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a science problem. So they said, oh, what is this and we

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said, up, it's unidentified aerial
phenomena. Oh right, yes, yes,

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So we got in, we got
the meeting. So wet it was

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also palatable to these senior officials then
UFOs, which they branded as kind of

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a joke. Yes, it's a
simple linguistic slight of its interesting. So

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what happened was that, not with
the media and the public, but internally

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for our own classified policy discussions,
we rebranded from UFO to UAP. The

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US government took notice, and what
happened was that in June of twenty eleven,

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now I had left, I'd taken
earlier retirement from the Ministry Defense by

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that but I the British government declassified
and released a lot of its UFO files,

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many of which I'd written, so
my name was was out there.

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I received an invitation to fly to
Washington, d C. For a fairly

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high powered meeting. I can't name
all the people who were there, but

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there was a former presidential Chief of
Staff. There was a former CIA director.

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There were a number of senior government
military intelligence community personnel, some serving,

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some retired, and they were particularly
I gave a short briefing on my

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official research and investigation for the UK
government, but they were particularly interested in

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this rebranding because obviously they were facing
the same issue, and so I walked

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them through that. Didn't think much
about it until two thousand and sixteen,

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when in the run up to the
presidential election, I saw an interview with

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Hillary Clinton on I think it was
Jimmy Kimmel, and the question came,

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well, you said you're interested in
UFOs and you open the files, and

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she said, no, no,
it's not UFOs. There's a new term.

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It's up Hillary. So yeah.
So now she was not at the

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meeting that I attended in twenty eleven, but clearly some of her people were,

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and people who brief her on it
were. So I was, I

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don't know whether you would say directly, probably more indirectly involved in getting that

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to the attention of the US government, who subsequently adopted it. And it's

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interesting when this subject made its transition
from fringe to mainstream, and I date

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that back to December twenty seventeen and
the New York Times story about a tip

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and the US Navy videos. At
some point somebody asked about this term UAP,

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and a US Navy spokesperson, Joseph
Gradisher, said, we got the

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term from the Brits, and again
that was an acknowledgement of the work that

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myself and colleagues at the Ministry of
Defense had done in a round about nineteen

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ninety three ninety four, So it
was a slow burner. But now it's

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changed again. It's still up,
but now instead of unidentified aerial phenomena,

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it is now unidentified anomalous phenomena.
And the reason is that they are not

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just talking about things in the air, but under the ocean. Some of

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these objects, whatever these things are, we've heard the phrase transmedium travel,

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and of course also to pick up
the fact that it's not just air,

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it's space. So UAP is still
UAP, but it's now anomalous and not

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aerial. And we saw that very
recently when NASA held the public meeting of

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the UAP Independent Study Team. Right
now, would you say that here in

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the United States, we are still
hesitant to describe the occupants of these vehicles.

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It doesn't seem like there's enough emphasis. Yes, it's wonderful that NASA,

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Department of Defense Space Command are saying, hey, UAPs are here,

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We've had our Navy flyers photographed them. But when are we going to get

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to the point where we're going?
Who are these beans, where are they

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coming from? And what is their
purpose? You know the old phrase softy

247
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softy, catchy monkey, comes to
mind. This is small moves. We

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are not at the moment that's a
bridge too far. You are not going

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to look We've worked very hard.
I mean I say we. You know

250
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there are many other people with more
recent experience than myself, but a lot

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of hard work has been done to
get this issue in front of Congress,

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to get the DD and ODNI and
others fully engaged. A lot of that

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has come about because certain key individuals
in Congress have been briefed and have been

254
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sufficiently interested and concerned by what they've
been told to take this seriously, to

255
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push for public hearings and private classified
briefings in the various committees. And we're

256
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talking when I say Congress, we're
talking both the Senate and the House.

257
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We are talking predominantly the Armed Services
committees and the intelligence committees. But there

258
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are others engaged as well. And
you know, I'm not going to list

259
00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:19.200
all of the names, but just
to pick out too, because this is

260
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:29.240
bipartisan. Micao Rubio as a Republican
and Kirsten Gillibrand as a Democrat, and

261
00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:34.640
there are others, but they I
think have perhaps been most vocal. You

262
00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:40.079
are not going to get those sorts
of people talking about this, engaging on

263
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this writing UFO UAP provisions into the
National Defense Authorization Act, all of which

264
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has happened. You're not going to
get that if you say any phrase like

265
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occupants or aliens or extraterrestrials, you
would it's a bridge too far at the

266
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moment. I can't rule out that
it will happen in the future, but

267
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for now, if you push too
hard on that, you're going to lose

268
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it. Because you know, particularly
with in the run up to the presidential

269
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election, you know, none of
these politicians going to bring about They're quite

270
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:26.720
happy to talk about UAP national security
issue. Is it Russia, is it

271
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China? Is it something else?
They'll leave that question hanging, but no

272
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:34.640
one, No one's going to go
and talk about space alias Nick. I

273
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consider you a rare bird into the
fact that you, you know, you've

274
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been studying this phenomenon for decades and
as a member of the Ministry of Defense,

275
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you questioned, and you brought a
lot of data to that organization,

276
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what is going to be the point
and when that we have some kind of

277
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a disclosure that goes beyond just the
craft. It depends what there is to

278
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:11.200
disclose. And I'm not trying to
be glib with that answer, but there

279
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.759
are of course multiple competing theories out
there about what we're dealing with. And

280
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in the first of the two ODNI
reports that we've had to date, and

281
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so the one was published in June
twenty twenty one, ODNI went to great

282
00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:30.359
pains to say, look, there's
not going to be one single, neat

283
00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:37.680
answer to all this. There are
multiple things going on, often conventional things,

284
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prototype aircraft, drones, balloons,
you know, we've had, of

285
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course the whole SPI balloon, sayah, and there may be other things going

286
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on. They just had five categories
of things, including sensor anomalies, and

287
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:00.559
they have one of the categories it's
just called other. And the word extraterrestrial

288
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:07.839
or alien didn't appear anywhere in that
first o DNA report and understandably so.

289
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:12.119
So so you know, it depends
what there is to disclose. Is it

290
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an extraterrestrial presence. If it is, what's the agenda or is it?

291
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And you you know, some people
talk about interdimensional, some people talk about

292
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inter temporal. You know, sounds
kind of wacky, you're talking time travel,

293
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but you know, and some people
Interestingly, some people in government take

294
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the view that it's demonic. And
this is a particularly interesting and I think

295
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:48.240
unhelpful aspect to this, because whatever
your beliefs, there's a faction of people

296
00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:53.839
in government. I came across it
in the UK and the nineties, but

297
00:30:55.559 --> 00:31:00.160
Lou Alizondo more recently has spoken about
it being a factor here. There's a

298
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:06.680
faction of people who think that we
should not be studying UAP. Not because

299
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:08.680
they are hard nosed skeptics and they
think it's all a waste of time and

300
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:11.960
money. They think it's real,
but they think it's demonic, and therefore

301
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their view is we should not be
feeding it, giving it energy by engaging

302
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with it. And I remember Lou
Alisando gave an interview about this and he

303
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:27.319
said one time he was saying we
need to do more about the UAP.

304
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:34.160
Sue and very senior manager at the
Pentagon just said, go home and read

305
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:38.920
your Bible. Wow. And there's
a passage, of course in the Book

306
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:47.440
of Effesions which describes Satan in terms
of the quote is the prince of the

307
00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:52.160
power of the air. And that's
where that it's one of the reasons if

308
00:31:52.160 --> 00:32:00.599
it's to be as well, it's
it's yeah, just because Satan is described

309
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:07.559
as the prince of the power of
the air. When these people who take

310
00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:14.559
a very kind of fundamentalist view of
this Christian fundamentalist view, when when they

311
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:17.920
talk about UFOs, they are reminded
of this quote, the Prince of the

312
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:24.480
power of the air. We do
see deception running through not just the UFO

313
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:30.079
phenomenon, but particularly you know,
people who claim to have had entity encounters.

314
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:35.000
People talk about the trickster nature of
the phenomenon. But but you know,

315
00:32:35.359 --> 00:32:39.559
whereas some people talk about Norse gods
like Loki and humanity has always had

316
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:45.799
its trickster gods, the more fundamentalist
Christians say that, well, that that

317
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:52.279
trickster is the devil. And of
course the greatest trick the devil ever played

318
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:59.680
was convincing us that he doesn't exist. Crazy some of the more unique in

319
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.440
owners. We all know about Roswell
in nineteen forty seven, but you wrote

320
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:13.920
a book called Encounter in Rundelsham Forest
that you believe is substantially more important than

321
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:17.160
Roswell. Talk a little bit about
why it's more important. Well, I

322
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:24.119
did say more important. I'm not
sure I would necessarily stand by that now.

323
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I mean, I think probably when
when the book came out, I

324
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:32.079
thought, you know, obviously I
needed to do some marketing and publicity,

325
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:36.880
and that was, you know,
the idea that this is bigger than Roswell

326
00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:43.519
and more important. It was an
attention. Yet where I do stand by

327
00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:49.240
it is in terms of the chain
of custody, the audit trail or whatever

328
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:52.519
you want to call it. With
the best will in the world, Roswell

329
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:58.200
is now nearly eighty years in the
past. And of course they say,

330
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:02.160
well, the old saying isn't when
no war is truly over until the last

331
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:07.039
soldier passes. But now, of
course all the Roswell witnesses are dead and

332
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:10.559
gone, and so we're dealing with
with the children, the grandchildren, the

333
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:16.599
great grandchildren. Oh yeah, my
granddad was involved in that, you know,

334
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:22.079
with the best will in the world, that's a cold case now,

335
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:28.920
Randallsham, you know, that's forty
years in the popiece now. But but

336
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:31.880
it's it's doable. It's more doable. That's the point. You know,

337
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:38.280
the witnesses are still alive. There
is a paper trail that you can follow

338
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:45.960
of declassified government documents on that,
both from the US and the UK give

339
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:51.199
us a little all review of the
keys, would you please sure? December

340
00:34:51.280 --> 00:35:01.400
nineteen eighty takes place over three consecutive
nights, surrounds events that happened at two

341
00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:07.960
Air Force bases, bent Waters and
Woodbridge. These are United States Air Force

342
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:14.199
bases in England, in the County
of Suffolk, and it starts on the

343
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:22.119
first night with people seeing a security
police law enforcement personnel seen lights in the

344
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:27.480
forest, strange lights. They think
maybe a light aircraft has crashed and started

345
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.679
a fire, so they go out
there to see what the situation is.

346
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:37.760
They encounter not a crashed aircraft but
a landed UFO and one of them gets

347
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:44.280
close enough to touch the side of
this thing. He sees strange symbols,

348
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:50.079
he feels a kind of electric shock
through his body. He joked about it

349
00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:52.639
afterwards to me. He said,
Nick, that was probably not a smart

350
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:58.400
thing to do. But you know, and this thing was quite small,

351
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:06.280
maybe nine feed across, you know, triangular shaped, maybe nine feet high.

352
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:09.639
As as right source of shape,
well, I mean, you know,

353
00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:16.880
somewhere between triangul and and and Saucer. The nearest thing if you look

354
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:24.840
at it, there's a British unmanned
aerial vehicle called terranis. If you look

355
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:30.639
at that, it sits a you
know, unmanned aerial vehicle can fly around

356
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:36.480
the world drop drop bombs and missiles
on the bad guys, that sort of

357
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:39.239
thing. If you look at a
couple of photos of it, it's not

358
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:45.760
a million miles away, although the
timeline doesn't work for that being a solution

359
00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:50.039
of course, and a number of
other facts don't fit. So this thing

360
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:55.559
was. It was in a small
clearing on on the ground and it had

361
00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:00.920
smashed some branches off the trees as
it had come down vertically, and it

362
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.880
was just sitting there and then they
took some photos. They were subsequently told

363
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:09.440
they didn't come out. Jim Jim
Penniston made some sketches which have survived,

364
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.519
including not just the craft but strange
symbols on the side. And then after

365
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:22.079
a while this thing just rose up
slowly vertically again, cleared the tree tops

366
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:29.960
and then away to the horizon in
an instant. And Jim Peniston, who

367
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:32.119
was one of the two witnesses there
on the first night, along with John

368
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:36.599
Burrows, these are the two that
I teamed up with to write the book.

369
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:43.239
He just wrote in his police notebook
speed impossible, and Jim Jim was

370
00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:49.960
yeah. And Jim was an aircraft
recognition expert. Of course, he was

371
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:52.840
one of these people who one of
his training courses was, you know,

372
00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:59.760
you look, if I show you
the shape of any Warsaw packed or NATO

373
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:04.039
unitary aircraft, you identify it within
seconds. Oh yeah, that's a mid

374
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:07.880
twenty nine. That's, you know, an F sixteen, just from the

375
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:13.159
silhouettes. So this guy is an
expert. He knows everything about aircraft recognition,

376
00:38:13.480 --> 00:38:19.719
speeds, maneuvers, acceleration. He
just write speed impassable. So that

377
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:23.199
was night number one. Night number
two we know less about. We know

378
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:31.800
that a ball of light passed through
the cabin of a vehicle and so spooked

379
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:38.920
one of the security police and law
enforcement personnel that they had to be returned

380
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:44.760
sort of medically evacuated. I believed
the United States in almost like a state

381
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:47.679
of shock. This thing had had
somehow this sphere, this ball of light

382
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:55.159
had passed through the solid closed glass, interacted in some way, and then

383
00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:00.440
passed out the other side. I
am, we don't know much about that.

384
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:04.920
There are sensitivities over that, so
I'm not gonna go into too many

385
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:09.880
details. The third night, there
was an awards ceremony going on and all

386
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:17.360
the senior personnel were there. Before
it could really start, one of the

387
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:22.320
young officers burst into the room.
He came up to the commander and the

388
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:27.960
deputy base commander and he saluted,
and he said he looked shell shocked.

389
00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:31.360
He said, sir, it's back. And they were like, what are

390
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:36.199
you talking about? What's back?
And he's the UFOs it's back. And

391
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:39.039
of course, because of what had
happened on the two preceding nights, the

392
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:45.599
rumors about this had gone round the
base like wildfire. So the deputy base

393
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:50.440
commander, Colonel Halt, was basically
right right, I'm going to go out

394
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:53.880
into the forest. Base commander said, well, you know, either I'm

395
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:58.079
going to have to do this or
you and say you're the deputy base commander,

396
00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:00.800
you go out. So he Colonel
Holt, who I know quite well,

397
00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:07.559
threw together a small team of about
half a dozen people. He went

398
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:10.519
out into the forest, as he
put it, to debunkle this UFO nonsense

399
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:15.039
which was beginning to interfere with what
he felt was the smooth running of operations.

400
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.159
He said, it's getting out of
hand. I'm going to put this

401
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:21.880
to bed. He said he couldn't
because he ended up a witness himself.

402
00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:24.679
They started off at the landing site
where this thing had come down on the

403
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:31.880
first night, Lee took some One
of the people in the team was Munroe

404
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:37.719
Nevill's who was the Disaster Preparedness Office
officer, so he had Geiger Counter with

405
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:44.639
him. He took some readings which
were subsequently assessed and this has been declassified

406
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:49.920
and released. You can read it. Ministry Defense assessment said that those levels

407
00:40:49.960 --> 00:41:00.480
of radioactivity seemed significantly higher than the
average background, so so that wast in

408
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:05.320
terms of physical corroboration. So the
third night, did the vehicle come down

409
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:10.239
again and this officer was able to
actually see it. No, he started

410
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:15.440
off not seeing it. He was
told it. Yeah, he couldn't when

411
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:19.960
he went out there first because other
people had seen it. They didn't see

412
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:24.519
it. That's why they used that
time to take some radioactivity levels at the

413
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:30.039
landing site. But then they saw
it. We're gonna take a short commercial

414
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:37.800
break to allow our sponsors to identify
themselves, and we'll be right back with

415
00:41:37.239 --> 00:42:16.159
my guest, Nick Pope. My
guest today is author Nick Pope, who

416
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:21.880
spent over twenty one years as a
Special investigator for the Ministry of Defense in

417
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:27.159
England. He's the author of a
number of books, including Open Skies,

418
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:35.599
Closed Minds, and he's featured on
Ancient Aliens. Nick, what's the point

419
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:39.599
in covering up these sightings, these
UFO sightings. There are a number of

420
00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:46.440
theories about that, and you hear
people say we need to cover this up

421
00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:54.320
because it would people would panic,
and it would you destroy the major world

422
00:42:54.360 --> 00:43:00.679
religions with all the geopolitical chaos that
would follow that, or encourage more fundamentalism.

423
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:04.800
I don't think that's I don't think
any of that's right now. This

424
00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:10.199
is this is speculation I said earlier. I think it's always important to say

425
00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:15.119
when you're moving from what you know
to what you think. It's something I

426
00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:21.000
always, as an analyst and a
briefer did in my Ministry Defense career,

427
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:23.280
whether it was on UFOs, whether
it was on Iraq, whatever it was

428
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:31.719
on. So my one word answer
to your question is technology. And here's

429
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:37.000
what I mean by this. We
are at the moment in a you know,

430
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:42.159
sort of rather awkward we being the
United States. But maybe as a

431
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:45.239
brit who lives in the US now
maybe it tooking the NATO military alliance.

432
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:51.960
We're in a kind of uneasy sort
of war of nerves. Some would say

433
00:43:51.960 --> 00:44:00.000
we're actually edging into or are in
a proxy war with two major nuclear power

434
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:07.000
adversaries a Russia and China. If
you throw the possibility of extraterrestrial technology,

435
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:12.960
if that's what we're dealing with,
into that mix, we have a potentially

436
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:23.280
explosive I use that word deliberately outcome
in that the nation on Earth that first

437
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:29.159
acquires this technology, if it exists, is going to be the dominant force

438
00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:34.360
on this planet for the foreseeable future. At the moment, the piece is

439
00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:47.360
being kept by mutually assured destruction in
terms of nuclear missiles bombs. But and

440
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:51.719
it's a dangerous tight rope to walk, but we have walked it, and

441
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:59.840
it has worked. If you throw
in a game changing, war winning super

442
00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:02.159
weapon technology, and bear in mind
it doesn't even have to be a weapon.

443
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:07.960
But if we are dealing with extraterrestrials, one absolute certainty, I don't

444
00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:12.760
want to be too anthropocentric about this. We can make very few assumptions about

445
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:19.159
aliens, but one very good assumption
is that to have viable interstellar travel,

446
00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:27.239
whether it's warpholes or worm drives,
or whether it's matter antimatter annihilation or nuclear

447
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:32.559
fusion or fission, it's going to
involve very high energies. And one thing

448
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:37.320
about anything that involves very high energies, so you can weaponize it. So

449
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:42.079
my one word answer technology, as
I say what I mean is the nation

450
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:49.159
that first gets this is going to
have a huge advantage. And this was

451
00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:57.679
articulated in I believe it was a
two thousand and nine maybe twenty ten letter

452
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:04.000
from Senator how Reid, who set
up the a TIP program, and he

453
00:46:04.119 --> 00:46:15.000
was seeking special Access program status for
a TIP Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program,

454
00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:20.880
which looked at UAP amongst other things, and in seeking it, he made

455
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:24.920
this point about the tech and he
said, look, if we can figure

456
00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:36.840
this out, it will give the
United States an incalculable advantage in geopolitical strategic

457
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:43.920
sense. But conversely, if an
adversary gets there first, this will be

458
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:51.119
a catastrophic potential threat to the national
security of the United States. So it's

459
00:46:51.280 --> 00:46:57.760
all about the technology, the race
for that technology, and the race to

460
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:01.159
ensure that an adversary does not yet
that technology first. And the one thing

461
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:06.920
you do, you imagine this.
Imagine this. I call it sometimes a

462
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:12.360
new space race for the tech.
It's like a high stakes game of poker.

463
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:16.280
One thing you never do in the
game of poker or show the other

464
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:21.599
players what cons you're holding. So
that's why people say, why are the

465
00:47:21.679 --> 00:47:27.159
UFO secrecy? That's it in a
nutshell, I think. But let me

466
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:31.639
give you for instance, what if
we run into a civilization, as to

467
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:40.760
say, five hundred thousand years advance
of US, extremely sophisticated technology, and

468
00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:45.400
they land and say, we want
to speak with your officials, so forth

469
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:50.079
and so on. This is a
what if. And of course everything about

470
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:53.719
the Americans always, as you suggest, leads to militarization. You know,

471
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:58.440
how can we get their weapons,
how can we get their technology? So

472
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:04.480
forth and so on. That's I
would think that that's not a possibility with

473
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:12.280
a civilization of that great sophistication.
I could be naive in thinking that,

474
00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:16.039
But you, being on the military
side, are seeing that the technology is

475
00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:22.199
everything. How do we go about
first contact? If that's our mindset to

476
00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:29.639
be looking for an advantage? Is
it possible at our current stage of evolution

477
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:37.159
to speak with an et civilization,
which is obviously an advance of us,

478
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:39.440
and perhaps this is where we're at
right now. Well, it is,

479
00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:47.079
and a lot of sues to unpie
in response to that question. I mean

480
00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:51.920
one one question is, and it's
an interesting one actually, it's could we

481
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:54.039
figure out what the tech in the
first place? If it's if it's fifty

482
00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:59.800
years ahead of us maybe, I
mean, you look at cell phones or

483
00:48:59.840 --> 00:49:07.199
an interesting example if if you have
an iPhone fourteen, if I went back

484
00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:14.679
in you know, like five years
in time, and I gave somebody at

485
00:49:14.719 --> 00:49:20.039
Apple that phone, they would know
instantly what it was. That they would

486
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:23.000
be a little bit wow, that's
high tech. But they'd be able to

487
00:49:23.000 --> 00:49:28.039
figure it out. Same probably ten
years back. But if you went twenty

488
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.440
years back with it, maybe not. If you went fifty years, it's

489
00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:36.679
like, you know, whatever it
is. If you go back ten thousand

490
00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:42.000
years, it's like, you know, shine, nice shiny rock, flat

491
00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:45.480
shiny rock, right, they wouldn't
even know what it was, as you

492
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:47.639
say, let alone, they wouldn't
be able to build one. So that's

493
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:55.400
sue number one. If the technology
gap is much more than a few years,

494
00:49:57.280 --> 00:50:00.239
maybe we wouldn't be able to figure
it out. But that's not point.

495
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:05.519
Point is we try, and maybe
in doing so we'd accidentally crack this

496
00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:10.159
planet open like a night because it's
probably not a good idea. Probably not

497
00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:14.440
a good idea. But again,
in relation to the second part of your

498
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:20.639
question, how might first contact go
with? While Stephen Hawking warned about this,

499
00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:24.280
of course, he said, when
we encounter extraterrestrials, it might be

500
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:31.960
similar to when the European explorers encounter
the Native Americans, only this time we

501
00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:37.559
humanity will be the Native Americans.
So there's that. Then there is the

502
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:45.079
famous quote by Arthur C. Clark
who said that any sufficiently advanced technology is

503
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:51.960
indistinguishable from magic. So it's not
necessarily that you couldn't figure it out,

504
00:50:52.000 --> 00:50:57.840
it's the damage you might do by
trying. That's one question strictly focused on

505
00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:00.119
the tech, but more generally,
as I say, going into the second

506
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:06.000
half of your question, again,
it depends what their agenda is. Are

507
00:51:06.039 --> 00:51:10.280
they coming here to conquer? Probably
not. Are they coming here for resources?

508
00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:17.360
Probably not. Any technology, any
civilization with the technology for viable interstellar

509
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:25.400
travel, it's probably figured out you
know how to fulfill its it's basic resources

510
00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:32.519
without needing to to come and steal
someone's gold and water for want of You

511
00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:37.440
know, it's pretty easy to the
universe is full of hydrogen and oxygen,

512
00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:43.880
and you know, you can you
can any civilization that's traveling between the stars

513
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:47.760
can figure that out. So that's
not it. What it might be,

514
00:51:49.119 --> 00:51:58.159
I think is anthropology because to really
advanced civilizations, and in a universe nearly

515
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:01.599
fourteen billion years old, that might
be civilizations out there are billion years ahead

516
00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:10.000
of us, so their technology would
be indistinguishable from magic, and they themselves

517
00:52:10.039 --> 00:52:24.519
would be indistinguishable from gods. To
such civilizations, newly emerging technological civilizations like

518
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:32.880
us might just be the last interesting
thing in the cosmos. We're interested in

519
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:37.960
society. The structure of society,
political structures, you know, is when

520
00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:46.320
we you know, when anthropologists encounter
indigenous people, they there are some societies

521
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:53.840
still that are tribal and hunter gatherers, maybe without a written language. Some

522
00:52:53.920 --> 00:53:00.239
of them still will be like that
in the mind's eye of the extraterrestrials.

523
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:07.639
But we are just beginning to take
our first little baby steps out into the

524
00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:15.480
wider cosmos. And there may be
a trigger point or a couple of trigger

525
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:17.800
points. But what is it that
makes a civilization, you know, if

526
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:22.280
the universe is full of life,
is there really anything new? Well?

527
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:28.440
Maybe, but what makes it interesting
and potentially important? Well maybe when they

528
00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:35.119
do two things, when they develop
atomic power and harness that and when they

529
00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:39.079
develop rocket technology. And if you
put the two of those things together,

530
00:53:39.880 --> 00:53:51.280
it might sound some alarms in any
confederation of civilizations that might be out there.

531
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:53.360
It's it's a kind of the kids
have found the matches moment. I

532
00:53:53.440 --> 00:54:01.320
like your analysis. I'm curious your
tig the abduction phenomena, which seems to

533
00:54:01.360 --> 00:54:07.519
have died down a bit. I've
had Bud Hopkins, David Jacob, and

534
00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:15.039
even doctor John Mack at different conferences
back in the late nineties in San Francisco,

535
00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:22.360
and they were analyzing and writing about
the phenomenon of abductions of women and

536
00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:30.760
in vitro fertilization scenarios, and in
some cases the mothers were returned to the

537
00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:37.239
ships and viewed their hybrid offspring.
It doesn't seem to be happening as much.

538
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:45.559
And so I'm wondering, and using
your anthropology scenario, do you think

539
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:52.559
this is perhaps a phase that these
ets are going through in viewing earthlings.

540
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:59.400
Again, a really interesting question with
a lot to unpine the skeptical arguments.

541
00:54:59.679 --> 00:55:05.599
I mean, I give us suggest
that you've answered your own question, but

542
00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:08.559
but there is a skeptical or that
you've pointed people the right way? Shall

543
00:55:08.599 --> 00:55:14.039
I say? Because there's one of
the things in the odn I report,

544
00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:16.679
and I know that this was about
UAP, not abductions, but it talked

545
00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:25.000
about collection bias. It said there
is apparent clustering of UAP sightings around military

546
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:30.840
bases, and we hear, for
example, about the UFO nuclear connection.

547
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:37.079
But the skeptical argument is it's collection
bias. And all that that really means

548
00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:43.119
is that those areas are more heavily
surveiled, so you're more likely to get

549
00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:47.400
reports because we've got a lot of
eyes on those areas. So when it

550
00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:52.320
comes why I say that you've answered
your own question, is is you mentioned

551
00:55:52.880 --> 00:56:00.039
Bud Hopkins, Dave Jacobs, and
John may Well. Bud Hopkinson and John

552
00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:06.719
Mack of course have died, and
Dave Jacobs is now of an age where

553
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:13.360
I don't believe he's actively researching or
taking place taking part in conferences or doing

554
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:19.400
media. So the three people who
really were the leading lights of this,

555
00:56:19.559 --> 00:56:23.559
the big names, all in a
very small period of time. Basically,

556
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:30.679
we're taken off the board. And
what that meant was that if you look,

557
00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:37.639
if you consider abduction research to be
part of the wider spectrum of UFO

558
00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:43.039
UAP research, which I think is
a legitimate position, you would say that

559
00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:50.599
the center of gravity, with the
loss of those three giant figures, shifted

560
00:56:50.639 --> 00:56:59.880
elsewhere. Does it mean that abductions
aren't happening or happening much less, or

561
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:02.480
does it simply mean that we're not
hearing as much about it because the people

562
00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:08.039
who were doing that work and no
longer with us, were no longer able

563
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:13.280
to do that work with Dave Jacobs. Now, that's not to say there

564
00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:20.079
aren't some really good people still working
on this. Yvonne Smith, Barbara Lamb,

565
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:28.199
a number of other Mouffon now has
a whole experience. A resource team

566
00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:36.239
stood up their RT to look at
this. Ivon Smith has her Sero organization.

567
00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:40.280
I believe there are many other people, but we still haven't quite got

568
00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:49.119
abduction back onto the agendas as much
as it was. If you'd if this

569
00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:57.559
event had been held in in nineteen
ninety seven, I guarantee that the headline

570
00:57:57.639 --> 00:58:02.920
speakers would would not be you know, Richard Dolan, Graham Hancock, Linda

571
00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:06.719
Molten, how they would probably,
I mean, they may be there anyway,

572
00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:10.960
but some of the other keynotes would
be would be Hopkins, Jacobs and

573
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:16.639
mad And so there are some people
who say there are some people who say,

574
00:58:16.760 --> 00:58:21.920
well, abductions are slowing down.
That means the aliens have kind of

575
00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:27.440
got what they wanted and we are, as you you know, asked,

576
00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:30.599
you know, speculated, maybe moving
on to another phase. But the skeptical

577
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:37.079
of argument is no, it's still
pretty much as it was, but we're

578
00:58:37.079 --> 00:58:42.440
hearing less about it. And remember
what I said about this being of entity

579
00:58:42.559 --> 00:58:47.599
reports are going to be a bridge
too far for Congress. Not only aren't

580
00:58:47.639 --> 00:58:52.199
we hearing about it, but some
people, and this is a confession from

581
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:59.960
me, some people are actively well, it's kind of an a mission.

582
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:02.880
When I get asked, when this
comes up in the media, I get

583
00:59:02.920 --> 00:59:07.760
off the topic. I don't want
to talk about it because I know that

584
00:59:07.840 --> 00:59:12.000
I will do I will undo the
good work that's been done to get this

585
00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:15.719
to Congress. But you know,
the moment, the moment, the moment

586
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:22.039
Marco Rubio gets asked about his interest
in space aliens, he's out of the

587
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:30.079
room. He's not going to do
that. So you ask him about UAPU

588
00:59:30.599 --> 00:59:32.000
and he's like, yeah, well, we've got the pilots, get the

589
00:59:32.039 --> 00:59:37.199
radar operators. He's not going to
say, well, I'm interested in in

590
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:42.519
these people who claim that they were
floated out through their window taken onto that.

591
00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:45.840
He's not going to go down that
road. Yeah, so people like

592
00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:52.320
myself, people like Chris Melon lu
Alisando, I would put it to you

593
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:57.840
that if you, if you look
and that they get asked those questions.

594
00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:02.599
No, they'll speculate, but then
they'll shift the conversation back back to uap

595
01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:09.559
defense, national security satellite data,
radar data, pilots, you know.

596
01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:15.440
And I do that deliberately, and
I apologize for it because I know it's

597
01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:20.920
not fair to the people that you
know are having these experiences whatever is happening.

598
01:00:21.159 --> 01:00:25.320
But I don't apologize for it because
it's the price we have to pay

599
01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:29.880
to get this subject where it is. And remember I said, softly,

600
01:00:29.920 --> 01:00:32.159
softly, catchy monkey, it's late. You've got your foot in the door.

601
01:00:34.639 --> 01:00:38.000
You are not going to get that
door further open by talking about abductions.

602
01:00:38.119 --> 01:00:43.280
I think what you're saying is you're
taking baby steps it's like it's introducing

603
01:00:44.159 --> 01:00:51.400
topics that are palatable to the power
elite, which in the United States is

604
01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:55.840
our government officials. Yes, but
let me round off that with one final

605
01:00:55.960 --> 01:01:00.440
observation from John May and I remember
him saying this very clearly. Where you

606
01:01:00.480 --> 01:01:05.679
know, you talk about and a
number of people believe that what we're dealing

607
01:01:05.679 --> 01:01:14.280
with is as a sort of hybridization
program. The structure of an abduction seems

608
01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:16.679
to have a lot of common strands
to it, and something that we often

609
01:01:16.760 --> 01:01:22.800
hear about is this. You know, somebody was on a flat table or

610
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:27.599
platform, raised platform of some sort. They were on their back, they

611
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:31.960
saw entities, there was some sort
of device, There was an intrusive procedure.

612
01:01:36.239 --> 01:01:39.880
You know, either sperm or eggs
were removed, maybe a fetus was

613
01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:43.840
removed or implanted. John Max said, wait a minute, he said,

614
01:01:43.840 --> 01:01:47.639
wait, hold on. He said, let's not be too anthropocentric about this.

615
01:01:47.800 --> 01:01:52.800
He said, we we say that
this is like a medical procedure.

616
01:01:53.119 --> 01:01:58.800
He said, that's all we can
say. It may be something completely different.

617
01:01:59.320 --> 01:02:05.239
We be just saying, well,
the nearest analogy I can think of

618
01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:08.280
is, oh, it was like
that time I was in hospital and I

619
01:02:08.360 --> 01:02:12.599
had that operation and they removed my
appendix. Yeah, they you know,

620
01:02:12.679 --> 01:02:15.039
they gave me a shot. I
was out, I was kind of drifting.

621
01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:20.719
Next thing, I maybe membered something
and I had a scar and something,

622
01:02:20.800 --> 01:02:24.039
you know. But John Mack said, we don't know. That's what

623
01:02:24.159 --> 01:02:31.760
it is. We can't hope to
get into the mindset of another civilization,

624
01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:37.280
particularly if they're a billion years ahead
of us. So we can theorize and

625
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:42.719
speculate that it's a hybridization program.
We can say that some aspects of the

626
01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:47.440
abduction experience look like a medical procedure, but as I say, they look

627
01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:53.880
like it, they may not be
a Yeah, I'm curious about your opinion

628
01:02:54.119 --> 01:03:00.880
of Whitley Steber book just came out
called them and in the book he believes

629
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:07.119
that these hybrids are walking among us. They're so undetectable they look just like

630
01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:14.760
us. And one of his hypothesis
is the fact is the feeling that these

631
01:03:15.280 --> 01:03:19.880
beings are here to not only interact
with us, but to actually improve our

632
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:23.519
society. What you're what you're feeling
on that, Well, there's an old

633
01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:30.280
saying in the intelligence analysis community.
Interesting if true. Yeah, absolutely,

634
01:03:31.039 --> 01:03:36.719
I'd like to think it was true. It would be quite interesting and fun.

635
01:03:37.199 --> 01:03:44.920
Any technology, any civilization with the
technology to travel between the stars may

636
01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:52.000
well have the technology to to,
you know, run a hybridization program to

637
01:03:52.440 --> 01:04:00.280
create you know, link biological,
synthetic, biological robots, humaniform robots.

638
01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:06.239
The idea that would be robot indistinguishable
from a human being, whether it's them,

639
01:04:06.440 --> 01:04:11.719
whether it's it's AI, whether it's
biological, post biological, whether it's

640
01:04:11.760 --> 01:04:16.480
it's it's a mix. Yeah,
and if their mission is to improve our

641
01:04:16.519 --> 01:04:19.519
society, well, you know,
yeah, bring it on. We could

642
01:04:19.639 --> 01:04:27.000
do. You do it a little
bit of improvement down here. And yeah,

643
01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:30.639
I guess until though, until we
got one of these in a lab

644
01:04:30.679 --> 01:04:34.039
and said, wait a minute,
this is this is not human, we

645
01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:38.599
wouldn't know. And again maybe if
that ever looked like it was going to

646
01:04:38.679 --> 01:04:42.360
happen, they would step in and
make sure it didn't. So so,

647
01:04:42.519 --> 01:04:46.000
I it's a it's an intriguing theory, but I suspect it would be very

648
01:04:46.000 --> 01:04:49.960
difficult to I mean, you intellectually
know how you would prove it. Like

649
01:04:50.039 --> 01:04:53.440
I say, you would get one
of these things in a lab, But

650
01:04:53.559 --> 01:04:58.800
like I say, could you?
But as an ex military person, wouldn't

651
01:04:58.840 --> 01:05:03.360
that be a kind of a worst
case scenario to have one of these half

652
01:05:03.400 --> 01:05:09.280
alien, perhaps a full alien that
looks just like us, walking among us,

653
01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:15.320
getting work, perhaps even being a
government official. Is that a good

654
01:05:15.400 --> 01:05:18.400
or bad scenario? Well, I
would say it depends on the agenda,

655
01:05:18.519 --> 01:05:27.760
if the agenda, If the agenda
really is a sort of high minded kind

656
01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:38.199
of attempt to steer humanity away from
our self destructive path, then maybe that

657
01:05:38.199 --> 01:05:40.159
would be a good thing. But
yes, and by the way, I

658
01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:44.000
should say I was a civilian employee
of the UK Ministry of Defense, so

659
01:05:44.039 --> 01:05:51.119
I was not military myself, though
I worked alongside military colleagues on various programs

660
01:05:51.360 --> 01:05:57.239
and such like, But I was
a civilian myself. But coming from that

661
01:05:57.320 --> 01:06:04.320
defense background, yeah, it is, it is a worrying possibility. And

662
01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:14.039
yeah, what if these things infiltrated
leadership positions all around the world, political,

663
01:06:15.440 --> 01:06:20.000
military, intelligence community, big business. Um, you know, you

664
01:06:20.119 --> 01:06:26.920
position all your pieces and then you
make you move. So so yeah,

665
01:06:26.960 --> 01:06:30.159
if, like I say, it
goes back to what the agenda is,

666
01:06:30.199 --> 01:06:33.360
if it's if it's takeover, Yeah, it's it's the perfect takeover scenario.

667
01:06:33.760 --> 01:06:39.119
You win a war without having to
fire a shot because you are the leadership.

668
01:06:39.800 --> 01:06:45.039
Um, everyone's leadership. But if
it is high minded attempt to to

669
01:06:45.079 --> 01:06:50.960
improve us, then then obviously that's
not so bad. Although we're still in

670
01:06:51.000 --> 01:06:56.840
either scenario, we are not,
you know, masters of our own destiny

671
01:06:57.159 --> 01:07:01.119
anymore. And you know, as
as a libertarian, that offends against my

672
01:07:01.159 --> 01:07:09.599
sensibility as I guess, all right, finally, what does disclosure look like

673
01:07:10.159 --> 01:07:15.519
to earth leans when we are told
that we're not the only ones in our

674
01:07:15.639 --> 01:07:20.440
cosmos? How does it come about? And give us a prediction of when

675
01:07:20.440 --> 01:07:25.639
you think this is going to happen? It depends. There are two broad

676
01:07:25.719 --> 01:07:30.039
scenarios which I have term disclosure with
a big D and disclosure with a little

677
01:07:30.119 --> 01:07:36.199
D. Disclosure with a big D. As the president calling a special conference,

678
01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:41.320
the world is watching. It's my
fellow Americans, people of the world.

679
01:07:41.559 --> 01:07:45.239
We are not alone. That's disclosure
with a big D. I don't

680
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:48.840
know whether that will happen. It
might. Arguably, it's its events lead.

681
01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:55.599
It depends how things unfold. I'm
more inclined to think that it will

682
01:07:55.639 --> 01:07:59.960
be disclosure with a little D.
And that's what I describe it as.

683
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:04.119
This that it's a process as opposed
to a single event. It takes several

684
01:08:04.199 --> 01:08:11.800
years. It includes destigmatization, It
includes political engagement. It includes the slow

685
01:08:11.880 --> 01:08:18.640
release of various videos, photographs,
documents, I witness testimony. Next thing,

686
01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:24.319
you look around, you see that
NASA who previously rubbished this or engaging.

687
01:08:24.640 --> 01:08:29.359
You see congresses looking at it.
You see all these various people talking

688
01:08:29.399 --> 01:08:31.520
about you know this, And then
one day you wake up and you realize

689
01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:36.680
it's happened. And I suggest to
you that's kind of where we are now.

690
01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:43.840
We're in that process. So when
is disclosure happening? My answer is

691
01:08:44.039 --> 01:08:46.560
we're living it. It's happening right
now, right now, as you're feeling

692
01:08:46.720 --> 01:08:51.079
yeah, okay, really quick.
When we look at Mars and there's a

693
01:08:51.079 --> 01:08:57.159
great deal of evidence of archaeological ruins
on that planet, wouldn't it be an

694
01:08:57.239 --> 01:09:00.239
easy way to disclose the fact that
we're not all in our cosmos? There's

695
01:09:00.239 --> 01:09:09.199
an ancient alien civilization long dead on
Mars. Wouldn't they be easy? It

696
01:09:09.199 --> 01:09:13.239
would be easy. But it depends
what the backstory to that is, because

697
01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:16.520
that that's just a fact. But
there's always going to be the nuance the

698
01:09:16.600 --> 01:09:23.920
backstory, and if the backstory takes
us to a dark or uncomfortable place,

699
01:09:24.760 --> 01:09:30.720
um, you know, yeah,
there was this civilization and then they experimented

700
01:09:30.800 --> 01:09:35.520
with these biological robots that they really
just created, and then they died out

701
01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:39.359
and the robots live on. It's
like, hey, where are the robots?

702
01:09:39.399 --> 01:09:43.239
Oh you mean we're the robots,
right, you know. So so

703
01:09:43.760 --> 01:09:47.560
it kind of depends. It goes
back to one of your earlier questions,

704
01:09:47.600 --> 01:09:53.479
and I answered it by saying,
depends what there is to disclose. Well,

705
01:09:54.359 --> 01:09:57.680
yeah, if it's just artifacts on
Mars, that's that's great, hey,

706
01:09:57.800 --> 01:10:03.600
aliens. But as I say,
if if the backstory raises difficult and

707
01:10:03.680 --> 01:10:12.119
uncomfortable questions and perhaps truths about who
we are and where we came from,

708
01:10:12.680 --> 01:10:17.159
then there are maybe voices of caution
who will say, yeah, wait a

709
01:10:17.159 --> 01:10:20.960
minute, we might not want to
go down that road. Nick Pope,

710
01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:26.159
real pleasure having you on the program. How can people read more about you?

711
01:10:26.239 --> 01:10:30.840
Do you have a website? My
website is Nick Pope dot net,

712
01:10:30.560 --> 01:10:38.319
and I am reasonably active on a
couple of social media sites, but mainly

713
01:10:38.359 --> 01:10:41.960
in terms of when I have new
things out and I want to announce things

714
01:10:42.079 --> 01:10:48.359
Twitter. Where I am at Nick
Pope m D the MD standing of course

715
01:10:48.439 --> 01:10:51.840
for Ministry of Defense. I couldn't
quite get that out of my blood.

716
01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:58.800
I guess, so, Nick Pope
MD okay, and are you speaking anywhere

717
01:10:58.960 --> 01:11:02.840
that people can see you in the
next week, month, year? Well?

718
01:11:02.880 --> 01:11:09.000
After contact in the Desert, I'm
going on and I think at the

719
01:11:09.119 --> 01:11:14.319
end of June beginning of July I
go to Roswell and they of course have

720
01:11:14.439 --> 01:11:19.359
the UFO Festival there. I am
doing a one off talk for Phoenix Move

721
01:11:19.439 --> 01:11:28.880
Fawn, I think in July from
memory. Then in August I go back

722
01:11:28.880 --> 01:11:39.399
to the UK to speak at Awakening
Expo twenty twenty three in Manchester. And

723
01:11:39.600 --> 01:11:44.359
then the big thing that I'm doing
is I do Ancient Aliens Live, which

724
01:11:44.439 --> 01:11:49.960
is a ninety minute live show based
on the TV series. I moderate it

725
01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:59.520
and on the stage with me is
Georgiosuka Lass, William Henry, David Childress

726
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:04.439
and doctor Travis Taylor. So we
we've done twenty one cities so far.

727
01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:11.760
We tour around. People love it, We love it the audiences. The

728
01:12:11.800 --> 01:12:18.359
audiences make the show that they're so
their passion for this. There we we

729
01:12:18.520 --> 01:12:21.840
present a lot of interesting stuff,
but we also between the five of us,

730
01:12:21.880 --> 01:12:26.399
the more shows we do, the
more the more banter there is between

731
01:12:26.479 --> 01:12:29.960
us on stage. People love the
little jokes and the quips that we sometimes

732
01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:34.960
have it at each other's expense.
But the audience's knowledge and their passion is

733
01:12:35.159 --> 01:12:39.960
wonderful to see. And we're filling
houses. Like I say, we we

734
01:12:39.960 --> 01:12:45.239
we go to theaters, so we
go to some wonderful venues. You know,

735
01:12:45.359 --> 01:12:51.880
capacity is somewhere between fifteen hundred and
twenty five hundred, so we're,

736
01:12:51.960 --> 01:12:57.680
yeah, we're selling We're not quite
doing stadiums yet. Maybe there will I

737
01:12:57.680 --> 01:13:00.319
if we yet disclosure, we'll do
that, but for the time being,

738
01:13:00.359 --> 01:13:08.840
we're selling out some reasonably big venues
with like you know, fifteen hundred,

739
01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:15.520
seventeen fifty two thousand people twenty one
shows down. We just announced another fourteen

740
01:13:16.079 --> 01:13:20.000
for the fall. They've asked me
to get my diary out for twenty twenty

741
01:13:20.000 --> 01:13:23.439
four. People love it. They
can't get enough of it. And we

742
01:13:24.119 --> 01:13:28.199
obviously we all have busy schedules.
So one of the big challenges is finding

743
01:13:28.439 --> 01:13:30.840
a date that the five of us
can actually get together, and sometimes one

744
01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:34.960
of us may have to set things
out. Travis Taylor, for example,

745
01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:40.319
does a lot at Skinwalker Ranch,
and he's he's going to have to miss

746
01:13:41.039 --> 01:13:47.279
a few shows, but yeah,
people love it, and so Ancient Aliens

747
01:13:47.359 --> 01:13:51.479
life must go real fair. Oh
it's blinking you miss it. Each of

748
01:13:51.479 --> 01:13:56.159
you say something that is time's up. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.

749
01:13:56.279 --> 01:14:03.079
But we really enjoy doing it,
and we really enjoy meeting the fans afterwards

750
01:14:03.279 --> 01:14:08.680
that you know, when those those
people that have a VIP package can come

751
01:14:08.680 --> 01:14:13.520
backstage and meet us and get their
photo taken with us. So yeah,

752
01:14:13.600 --> 01:14:17.079
that's that would be Ancient Aliens dot
com pret and get tickets there Ancient Aliens

753
01:14:17.159 --> 01:14:23.319
Live dot com or it may be
Ancient Aliens too, but but if you

754
01:14:23.359 --> 01:14:27.760
search on Ancient Aliens Live, it
will come up. Okay, wonderful,

755
01:14:28.079 --> 01:14:31.000
Nick Pope, wonderful having you,
thank you for your time. Thank you.

756
01:14:33.479 --> 01:14:40.319
So I was listening to that and
thinking, what is the listeners feeling

757
01:14:40.359 --> 01:14:46.880
about contact? How do you feel
if you were told by your news,

758
01:14:46.960 --> 01:14:54.880
your favorite news anchor, that there
had been a meeting between the United States

759
01:14:54.960 --> 01:15:06.600
leadership Biden kick Kevin McCarthy and the
various political heads and the announcement was made

760
01:15:06.640 --> 01:15:17.039
that there is a joint agreement to
begin a form of diplomatic communication. And

761
01:15:17.520 --> 01:15:26.920
this would be something almost like a
movie where we would be welcomed into perhaps

762
01:15:26.960 --> 01:15:34.039
a consortium of planets. And I
mean it's almost fantastic. But how would

763
01:15:34.039 --> 01:15:41.199
you feel if you woke up tomorrow
and you were listening to the radio,

764
01:15:41.600 --> 01:15:45.319
your favorite podcast, or your television
show, or you were scanning the news

765
01:15:45.319 --> 01:15:51.720
on the internet, and you discovered
that a representative from an alien race that

766
01:15:51.920 --> 01:16:00.680
is nearby us another planet had contacted
the United States leadership or met with a

767
01:16:00.760 --> 01:16:06.439
number of world leaders to announce themselves. How would you feel? Would you

768
01:16:06.520 --> 01:16:12.079
be afraid? Think about this for
a minute. I think it's important that

769
01:16:12.119 --> 01:16:19.520
you think and get in touch with
your feelings because I have this odd sensation

770
01:16:19.640 --> 01:16:25.600
that the more we become aware that
we're not the only ones, that we

771
01:16:25.720 --> 01:16:30.359
step beyond our governments cover up of
this data, the more likely we are

772
01:16:30.399 --> 01:16:35.520
to have this contact, this first
contact. And I think this is important.

773
01:16:36.640 --> 01:16:43.640
I keep using language like education,
evolution, the next step for homo

774
01:16:43.680 --> 01:16:48.039
sapien sapien, which is evolution.
But it's important for us to know that

775
01:16:48.079 --> 01:16:53.920
we're not the only ones here in
our solar system. So how do you

776
01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:57.239
feel? Think about this for a
minute. In fact, I'd like to

777
01:16:57.279 --> 01:17:02.439
hear from you. Send me an
email to Earth ancients for you the number

778
01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:06.840
four, the letter you at Gmail
and say Cliff, I'd be fine.

779
01:17:08.399 --> 01:17:12.239
I'm looking forward to this. I'm
looking forward to the day when we can

780
01:17:12.319 --> 01:17:19.119
say, hey, we're not the
only ones in our cosmos and they this

781
01:17:19.439 --> 01:17:27.199
race that has contacted us. I'm
excited about it. Or perhaps you're not

782
01:17:27.319 --> 01:17:31.840
happy about it that you're you're afraid. You're afraid to know that we're not

783
01:17:31.880 --> 01:17:40.840
the only ones out there. There
are other races, other species of intelligent

784
01:17:40.960 --> 01:17:46.720
beings who are curious to know more
about us, and they have stopped simply

785
01:17:46.800 --> 01:17:53.119
flying around and surveying us because there's
there's been a lot of questions that these

786
01:17:53.159 --> 01:17:59.319
are what we consider anthropologists studying the
human species. Well, no, there's

787
01:17:59.359 --> 01:18:08.239
a there's rays that in the scenario
I'm talking about, land their craft come

788
01:18:08.279 --> 01:18:14.239
out and meet with our political leaders. Now, perhaps it's not just the

789
01:18:14.319 --> 01:18:20.960
political leaders. Maybe it's Elon Musk, or it is a Jimmy Kimmel,

790
01:18:21.720 --> 01:18:27.640
or it is now. I mean, if it's a comedian that opens up

791
01:18:27.680 --> 01:18:31.399
all kinds of floodgates, could that
be I think it has to be someone

792
01:18:31.680 --> 01:18:38.479
other than the military. I do
not want our military to be part of

793
01:18:38.520 --> 01:18:43.039
this and they and they will butt
their way in because they're paranoid and they're

794
01:18:43.119 --> 01:18:48.720
running the narrative right now. Aliens
are peculiar, They're not to be trusted,

795
01:18:49.079 --> 01:18:54.479
they're not showing themselves. And by
the way, what kind of weapons

796
01:18:54.520 --> 01:18:59.239
are they possessing. I mean,
look, if there are a thousand,

797
01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:02.000
five hundred years in advance of us, we're toast if we get into that

798
01:19:02.079 --> 01:19:11.560
scenario, because hell, forget it, the game over. But that's not

799
01:19:11.640 --> 01:19:15.319
what it is, you know,
And we really need this right now because

800
01:19:15.359 --> 01:19:24.000
our planet is in desperate it's in
dire need of more conscious awareness, more

801
01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:29.439
e can or environmental concern. I
would love it if a race said,

802
01:19:29.439 --> 01:19:33.520
look, you've got to start stop
polluting, and let's help you along a

803
01:19:33.560 --> 01:19:38.880
little bit. You've already started your
electric cars here, a little tweak here,

804
01:19:38.920 --> 01:19:43.560
a little tweak there. Everybody can
have an electric car that is reasonably

805
01:19:43.720 --> 01:19:49.199
reasonably priced, or we can with
this technology we're going to offer you,

806
01:19:49.199 --> 01:19:57.760
you can convert your gas guzzling,
polluting car into a electric car or hydrogen

807
01:19:58.000 --> 01:20:01.880
car or whatever. And that would
be great. Now, the oil companies

808
01:20:01.920 --> 01:20:08.600
are going to have a conniption,
as well as society Arabians because they're they're

809
01:20:08.640 --> 01:20:14.720
supplying our crude oil. So lots
of possibilities. But that's a great scenario.

810
01:20:14.920 --> 01:20:19.000
So again, send me an email
if you're feeling that you'd like to

811
01:20:19.039 --> 01:20:26.760
know more about our off world brethren, let me know. You know what.

812
01:20:28.079 --> 01:20:30.520
I've gotten letters in the past where
people are saying, look, they

813
01:20:30.560 --> 01:20:34.479
may not be our friends, they
may not they may want to dominate us.

814
01:20:34.920 --> 01:20:39.039
I don't think that's the case.
I think that I mean, I'm

815
01:20:39.319 --> 01:20:45.319
even though it's kind of fantastical.
The whole idea of a collection of you

816
01:20:45.359 --> 01:20:51.000
know, planets, the Consortium of
planets, who have representatives who come and

817
01:20:51.119 --> 01:20:57.439
check us out and are meeting us. I love that scenario, I really

818
01:20:57.479 --> 01:21:00.479
do. I gotta get I gotta
get Steven Agreer on this because he's way

819
01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:05.039
ahead of the curve. Although he
gets a little paranoid and and things.

820
01:21:05.880 --> 01:21:12.199
I've had him a number of conferences
and he's kind of the almost the cutting

821
01:21:12.279 --> 01:21:16.439
edge, and and I think in
some scenarios he thinks there there are there

822
01:21:16.560 --> 01:21:24.439
is contact, but it's worth,
it's worth the governmental officials and they continue

823
01:21:24.439 --> 01:21:28.399
to squelch this because they just don't
want it to come out our government is

824
01:21:28.479 --> 01:21:32.079
not helping us in this situation,
as you just heard, and it's it's

825
01:21:32.199 --> 01:21:39.359
not something we want to continue dealing
with. They have to be basically told

826
01:21:39.920 --> 01:21:45.239
or voted against their behavior because the
behavior is not helping. So you want

827
01:21:45.279 --> 01:21:49.159
to you're looking forward to it,
send me an email Earth Ancients for you

828
01:21:49.319 --> 01:21:55.119
at gmail dot com. Or Hey, I'm not happy about I don't want

829
01:21:55.159 --> 01:21:59.119
to see the aliens. I'm not, you know, looking forward to it,

830
01:21:59.439 --> 01:22:03.920
and I'll bring it up in the
future podcast. We'll hear what people's

831
01:22:03.960 --> 01:22:08.760
ideas are and right right, write
me a paragraph for two and I'll read

832
01:22:08.800 --> 01:22:12.600
them on the program. Hey,
Cliff, I think it's a great idea.

833
01:22:12.800 --> 01:22:16.600
I've been wanting this to happen for
years. Or Cliff, I'm scared

834
01:22:16.640 --> 01:22:20.279
out of my mind. I don't
want, you know, these aliens to

835
01:22:20.359 --> 01:22:27.760
come. I don't feel like they're
going to help us, and they're not

836
01:22:27.880 --> 01:22:31.439
God fearing. And you know,
if you're religious, fine, you know,

837
01:22:32.720 --> 01:22:35.239
because they're not going to be religious. If there are a thousand years

838
01:22:35.600 --> 01:22:42.520
or ten thousand years, a religion
is man made. It's not a natural

839
01:22:43.199 --> 01:22:48.479
phenomenon. So so there you go, yes or no. Email Earth Ancients

840
01:22:48.560 --> 01:22:55.960
for you at gmail dot com.
You're gonna remind you we have a dynamite

841
01:22:55.960 --> 01:23:00.159
tour coming up. Typically the tours
are a couple of weeks twelve days.

842
01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:03.760
We do Egypt for twelve days,
but this Mexico tour with doctor ed Barnhardt

843
01:23:03.960 --> 01:23:08.880
is going to be seven days.
It's November tenth through the seventeenth. We

844
01:23:08.920 --> 01:23:12.920
have a few spots left. We're
almost full. But this is a tour

845
01:23:13.039 --> 01:23:18.600
of Maya land, and it's the
Maya of Tabasco and Chiapas. We meet

846
01:23:18.640 --> 01:23:28.399
in Vera Homosa, which is a
district area in the heart of Omec Land.

847
01:23:29.800 --> 01:23:32.840
Right away we go to Liventa Museum. It's an outdoor museum some of

848
01:23:32.840 --> 01:23:36.319
the largest megalists in the world.
I am really looking forward to because I've

849
01:23:36.319 --> 01:23:40.720
never been to that part of Mexico. Then we take a bus and we

850
01:23:40.880 --> 01:23:46.079
bust to Plank and this is the
jewel of the Mayan culture. This place

851
01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:54.600
has some of the most gorgeous temples, pyramids and buildings in the whole Maya

852
01:23:54.800 --> 01:23:58.199
hierarchy. Will be there for a
couple of days. We get a basic

853
01:23:58.279 --> 01:24:01.000
tour on the first day and the
second day as you got to take us

854
01:24:01.079 --> 01:24:05.399
on a private tour of some of
the areas that he mapped out but that

855
01:24:05.479 --> 01:24:13.800
are not really seen with the general
public. These are pyramids and temples that

856
01:24:13.880 --> 01:24:17.520
are not on any map, so
that's really kind of exciting. Then we

857
01:24:17.600 --> 01:24:25.079
bust to bomb Back and some other
areas that have some unique murals as well

858
01:24:25.119 --> 01:24:29.000
as temples and pyramids. One of
the reasons we do this tour is that

859
01:24:29.279 --> 01:24:33.199
we can move around, we can
climb these buildings in these pyramids, and

860
01:24:33.239 --> 01:24:39.920
we can do meditations. I'm going
to bring my trifield meter will measure totric

861
01:24:40.079 --> 01:24:44.520
fields in areas that have high energy. You can sit down, you can

862
01:24:44.600 --> 01:24:49.079
manifest, you can intend on having
things happen, healing whatever, whatever you

863
01:24:49.119 --> 01:24:56.079
need to work on. But this
is a really great tour and I'm really

864
01:24:56.079 --> 01:24:59.479
excited about doing it because we haven't
done anything with Ed before and he seems

865
01:24:59.479 --> 01:25:02.159
like a group. He's a really
great guy. So for more information go

866
01:25:02.279 --> 01:25:09.039
to Earth Ancients dot com, forward
slash Tours t o u r S register

867
01:25:09.239 --> 01:25:12.920
get on board now because we're almost
full. We're only going to take thirty

868
01:25:12.960 --> 01:25:17.640
people and I think we're twenty one
or maybe twenty, I can't remember.

869
01:25:18.800 --> 01:25:25.479
Anyhow, A great tour great fun. Love to meet you November tenth to

870
01:25:25.640 --> 01:25:31.000
the seventeen for more information Earth Ancients
dot com, Forward slash Tours come out

871
01:25:31.039 --> 01:25:35.159
and join me and ed Right,
that's it for this program. I want

872
01:25:35.199 --> 01:25:41.119
to thank my guest today, Nick
Pope, really enjoyed that interview. As

873
01:25:41.159 --> 01:25:45.680
always the team of Ruth Thomas and
Mark Foster making it happen. Thank you

874
01:25:45.720 --> 01:25:50.640
for your help. And I want
to remind you that we are continuing our

875
01:25:51.319 --> 01:25:57.800
Contact in the Desert series with a
special guest on Saturday. His name is

876
01:25:57.840 --> 01:26:01.039
Adam Apollo. He's kind of the
future of science. He's a physicist.

877
01:26:01.560 --> 01:26:06.159
I met him for the first time
at the conference in Palm Springs, and

878
01:26:06.359 --> 01:26:15.760
that interview is not only highlights his
personal experience contacting aliens off world types,

879
01:26:15.239 --> 01:26:20.359
but what he has brought in terms
of a scientific look at the future of

880
01:26:20.680 --> 01:26:27.359
Earth and his perspective on what we
can expect. So that's gonna be fun.

881
01:26:27.760 --> 01:26:30.319
All right, Take care every well
and we will talk to you next

882
01:26:30.319 --> 01:28:11.800
time. U