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We're back with another edition of the
Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Tschinsky,

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culture editor here at the Federalist.
As always, you can email the show

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at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on ex at fdr LST.

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Make sure to subscribe wherever you download
your podcasts, and of course to

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the premium version of our website,
The Federalist dot Com as well. Today

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we are joined once again by Bill
Donahue. He is now the author of

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the new book Cultural Meltdown, The
Secular Roots of Our Moral Crisis. He's

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the author not just of this book, but of other books, and is

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the President and CEO of the Catholic
League for Religious and Civil Rights. He

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has a PhD in sociology from Ny. You and I think you've written Bill,

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you can tell us about this,
but ten other books, ten other

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books. So this is the question. Yeah, and this is number eleven.

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You're right, Emily, Thank you
very much, Oh my goodness.

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Well, congratulations on the new book, and thanks for coming back on the

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show. Thank you for having me. So when you talk about I'll just

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zero in on the sub head here
of your book, The Secular Roots of

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Our Moral Crisis? Can you talk
to us a little bit about what you

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mean when you say the secular roots. A lot of people might say,

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you know, the roots are let's
say, you know, different kinds of

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religions that have crept in secular religions
or you know, full religious let's say,

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people would say militant Islam, you
know, has contributed to the crisis

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of the West and all of that. But you say the secular roots,

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can you talk to us a little
bit about what that means? Right?

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I mean, basically, what I'm
arguing in the book is that there are

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two irreconcilable visions of society and the
human condition. On the one hand,

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you have does J Nail Christian understanding, which believes in God, in truth,

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in human nature, moral absolutes original
sin. And then you have the

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secular vision, which denies the existence
of God, denies the idea that there

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is such a thing as truth,
denies human nature, denies the idea that

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original sin exists. They think you
can create heaven here on earth, and

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something's got to give here at this
point. Now, are there other aspects

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of contributing to our society and the
like, including maybe some religious groups certainly,

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But I see it as this conflict
of visions here, irreconcilable visions that

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has led to the kind of cultural
meltdown that we have in our society.

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You can't bridge this. You can't
simply say, well, we can compromize

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on everything. You either believe in
God or you don't. You believe in

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human nature, or you don't either
believe in moral absolutes or you believe in

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moral relativism. If truth is a
fiction, and that's what secularists believe,

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then we're in trouble. And that, in fact is why we are in

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trouble. There's too many Americans were
split believe that there's no such thing as

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truth or God, or human nature
or moral absolutes, and they reject the

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idea of original sin. That's at
the heart of our problem. And where

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did that start? I mean a
lot of people and many times on the

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show we've pointed right back to nature. So people would point to Hegel,

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so people would point to the Enlightenment
period. But where do those secular roots,

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how deep do they run? Exactly? Well, Emily, you hit

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it right on. The goes back
to the seventeenth and eighteenth century, goes

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back in particularly with the French during
the Enlightenment period the attack on religion,

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and then later in the nineteenth century
would reach and he said God is dead,

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and of course so many people picked
up on that. But Marx hated

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religion. He certainly hated the family. Before him, you had Rousseau.

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So yeah, the tentacles of this
intellectually go way back. And let's not

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forget in the twentieth century, born
in Germany and then coming here to New

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York the Frankfurt School, which is
a blend of Freud and his and for

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Thesm and Marxism with what we would
call cultural Marxism today, and others have

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contributed to this as well. So
we have a serious crisis. It's been

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in Europe and it's been in North
America where this is taken root. And

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clearly the French have played a major
role in this. I'm thinking about people

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like Fuca, who died a number
of years ago, was regarded as the

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great intellectual, and these people led
the war on truth. And once you

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think that there's no such thing as
truth, then it makes possible for guys

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that think they're girls, girls that
think their guys, you can make up

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your own silly world but it has
drassic consequences for people physiologically and psychologically.

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Our culture has been torn apart because
we reject the common sensical ideas which Christianity

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represents. And just to kind of
go back to that question of the Muslim

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world for a moment, which is
not dealing quite in the same way with

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this crisis of secularism, I wanted
to ask Bill why you think this emerged

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in the West, and again with
that sort of context that you and I

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are both well aware of, many
people have diagnosed this sort of issue as

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being within liberalism itself, that this
is sort of the arc of classical liberalism

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small L obviously is that Do you
think that's the case that these small L

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liberal societies inevitably slouch into dystopia.
Well, I think that's part of it.

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I mean, for example, the
idea that we should have tolerance of

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everybody. That sounds very good and
I'm certainly not navigating intolerance, but you

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have to if you're going to have
a free society, there has to be

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a moral consensus. That doesn't mean
unanimity, it does mean that people,

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most people have to agree on what
is right and what is wrong. Traditionally

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that has been the understanding of the
Ten commandments. Now, when you have

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a situation where some people who believe
in is law not all come into this

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country with a very different understanding of
man and of society, and are not

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willing to assimilate into our society,
you have a situation which Henry Issinger described

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before he died. He said,
you know, one of the big mistakes

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I made was encouraging immigration, mass
immigration into Europe. It doesn't work.

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There are some people who don't want
to blend in. They don't want to

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assimilate. They don't accept the tenets
of the jail Christian understanding of society.

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So there's been a role there and
unfortunately, isn't it interesting? We just

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saw it recently on the campuses queers
for Palestine. Why wait a minute,

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what's going on here? How can
you be a homosexual and promote the cause

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of Hamas they're the first people to
behead you. Now, how is it

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that the people in this country on
the left who would be the first ones

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to be beheaded if the Islamist took
over, are in fact in bed with

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them. The one thing that conjoins
them at the hit help is the hatred

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of the Western civilization, hatred of
a America and hatred of Israel. And

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I guess the free libertines on the
left are willing to gamble that. You

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know, we'll take any any encouragement
and any help we can get from our

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islam as brothers, and maybe we'll
escape their persecution. That's how irrational they've

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become. And we've just shown here
very clearly on the college campuses. You

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know, I was just going to
ask Bill for people who saw what happened

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on campuses over the last and not
just on campuses, but throughout our culture

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since October seventh, this upheaval,
what will they find in your book when

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they're looking for answers? How do
you address, you know, the events

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that we saw at Columbia and UCLA. What will they find in your book

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to help them kind of work through
what's going on? Thank you. In

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fact, the reason I wrote the
book is precisely to answer the questions which

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I bring up on the first page
and quoting Hegel, the world has gone

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topsy turvy. We all know that
my job as a sociologist is to try

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to make it understandable to the average
reader. You don't have to be a

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specialist how this happened. And at
first, the first thing you have to

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understand is it always always begins with
ideas. You can never understand any ism

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unless you understand that the ideologies are
driven by the intellectuals. I mentioned the

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French, I mentioned the Germans,
the Americans. There are certainly many others

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who have contributed to the idea that
there's no such thing as God. Everything

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is possible, we can create utopia
here on earth. Truth is a fiction.

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Once you go down that road,
you set up the situation for tyranny,

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as we've seen throughout history. And
so if people understand the intellectual roots,

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and then they see how they've affected
the activists and how the activists put

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them into play, you'll see what
happens. You know. It's interesting.

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I often deal with this when people
say, well, no, you Christians,

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you've had your problems. Oh yeah, we have. I wrote a

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book about the clergy sexual abuse a
few years ago. But remember, every

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person who has done something outrageous as
a Christian or as a practicing Jew,

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has violated the tenets of the Jeneo
Christian heritage. They violated them. The

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people who have plundered and murdered in
the name of Marxism, in the name

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of cultural Marxism. These are people
who are compliant with the very ideas and

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the tenants as set down by Marx
and angles. So there's an incredible difference.

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You've never been able to reach a
society which is perfection, and in

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fact, I think attempting to create
perfection on earth is one of the most

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pernicious ideas that we can ever entertain. It always leads to bloodshed and genocide

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because the people who believe that believe
that they are morally and intellectually superior,

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and therefore you must do what you're
told, and that's why coercion is always

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a possibility. We have to understand
the society is held together voluntarily, cooperatively

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when people agree that there is something
so called civil society. That's what stands

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between the individual and the state.
I'm talking about the family, the community,

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voluntary associations, the school, the
church in particular, that's what shields

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us from the totalitarianism what we've seen
in the past. And so my goal

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is to try to make intelligible to
the average reader how this happened and how

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it unfolded. So now we can
get a bit of grass on what to

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do about it. You know,
I was just gonna ask Bo about the

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role that sort of vision of utopia
that is not new. As you mentioned,

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you said, it always leads to
genocide, It always leads to strife,

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which implies, of course, that
this is part of something we've seen

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before, that's nothing new under the
sun. But you know, it's funny

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you mention that, because I was
also thinking about the role that technology has

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played in making us feel like we
can experience utopia here on earth. There

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were, you know, as we're
taping this, there was a successful new

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whirlink implantation, and it does feel, you know, like we get a

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inch ever closer, or not even
inch, We're hurling ever closer to this

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idea of a life that is free
from pain, as a lot of the

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tech utopiasts would tell us, Does
that play a role in some of this

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bill? Yeah, I think you're
right, and I think that you know,

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this whole idea that's being pushed by
lots lots of very wealthy people,

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the idea that we can read your
thought patterns. It's all about monitoring,

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it's all about control. That's what
this is really about. And their idea

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of the utopian society is certainly not
the one I'm sharing. I believe in

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improvements, I believe in progress.
I don't believe in perfection. In fact,

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I think we should resist those kind
of appeals. But it's interesting too.

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Emily had here, while the utopians
have always failed, Marks failed,

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and the like, and now we
see today. I kind of end the

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book by saying, and the left
understands that they're intellectually and morally bankrupt.

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They're exhausted. Now they've given up. We now have a kind of nihilism,

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as epitomized by whom Antifa. For
one, these people are very good

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at tearing down that which they don't
like. They're horrible about giving us a

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blueprint for the future to make things
better. Whatever we said about the Marxists

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in the past, at least they
thought that by tearing down capitalism, creating

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socialism and then communism, you could
hunt in the morning, fish in the

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afternoon, criticize after dinner. That's
what Mark said to this wonderland society that

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he had. But they did have
a vision of making things better. But

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now nobody point to the Soviet Union, or to now or to Hitler,

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it was another utopian on the left, I might add the National Socialist Party.

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No conservative ever believes in the maximum
state. They always believe in a

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minimal state. Every time you've had
these people who think that we're going to

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consolidate the power of this state and
therefore we're going to make things better,

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look out for them. But now
they've gone the other way. They like

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the little boy who can't build as
a rector set, so he takes a

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hammit to it and destroys it.
That's what we're dealing with here, and

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we saw it here in the college
campuses. Hey, we're not even like

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the ones in the sixties who had
some idea of how to try to make

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society better. All they wanted to
do is destroy things and make sure that

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Uber delivered their hamburger on time.
But they took over the buildings On Columbia.

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You can uber in the morning,
you can tweet in the afternoon. I

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don't know what luck would have then
come up with. Now I know you're

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running right, right right, And
you know it's crazy to think about people

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who grew up without you know,
just your point on consensus makes me continue

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thinking about technology. People who grew
up after network TV had sort of splintered

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into what we get with Netflix.
You know, when you have more than

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three choices, you just end up
with people not sharing, you know,

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even the same kind of cultural language. And that sounds like a silly thing,

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but it's just it seems to me, you know, I grew up

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after Johnny Carson, but it seems
to me there was something to the cohesion

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that we all got from, you
know, watching Johnny Carson and Cronkeye,

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and it made it easier to have
that point of consensus. Yes, and

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the technology has contributed to this kind
of aggregatious disaggregation. I should say that

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exists in our society today and that
plays a role. But let's also not

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effect. Remember here, what goes
on in the campus is it started in

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the nineteen eighties. It's called multiculturalism. Hey, hey, ho ho,

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Western culture has got to go.
That's what Jesse Jackson and his ilk were

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screaming in nineteen eighty eight on the
campus to Stanford University. Now, multiculturalism

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in its most benign form means we
should understand and respect people of different cultures.

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That's not what it is. It's
a club. It's a tool be

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down Western civilization. Then it ain't
understood this well Arthur Schlessinger Junior understood this.

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Well, that's what it's about.
It's about separating people, and that's

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why Columbia and others still have to
this day separate graduation ceremonies for blacks and

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whites. The clan must love this. It's everything they've ever wanted. I

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call it my book to do Aparthot. So you're segregating people on the base

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of class, on race. It's
all about division, and that's why at

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the end of the book I have
a couple of chips. They're deally divided

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before they do exactly what they're doing. And I want the listeners to understand

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none of this is by mistake our
side. When we say well, you

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know, they meant well, and
they'd no, no, no, they

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don't mean well. They know exactly
what they're doing. Read what they say.

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I spent my life reading what they
say. Sure, there are some

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people in the municipalities and who misunderstood
some policy and they don't do it right.

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They make mistakes. But what I'm
talking about here is the hardcore left,

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when they like Francis Fox, Pivot
and Richard Cloward out of Columbia University,

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set in the nineteen sixties. The
goal is to get every person who's

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remotely eligible and put them on welfare
with the purpose of detroying the system.

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If we destroy the system, we'll
have to bring in socialism, and then

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we'll get a federal answer. That's
what they said. People, I'm not

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saying and I'm just quoting it.
It's well understood what they wanted to do.

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Of course, they did bankrupt the
city. The city did go backrup.

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We didn't bring in socialism, we
didn't bring in nirvana, we didn't

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bring in some kind of utopian society, which translated means nowhere anyway. But

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we didn't make the life of people
miserable. And nobody has paid the penalty

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for this more than African Americans.
Black people have been exploited by white people

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who are well educated, who think
that they know better, who look down

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on these people who don't, who
have low expectations for them. It's all

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cut on the same court. They
always know better than everybody else. And

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the President of the United States recently
contributed to this at Morehouse College, telling

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blacks that basically their losers in society, they've beaten down. They can't expect

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any progress because the white man has
kept you in his place. What an

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encouraging, inspiring speech. Yeah,
and that's another question of you know,

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there was a pull out just today
about comparisons between gen Z and the baby

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boomer generation on patriotism, and it's
incredible. Bill. My question for you

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is how much it seems this is
a response to a very deliberate effort that

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was happening out in the open.
Jesse Jackson, Hey, Hey, ho

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ho, Western CIV has got to
go. What did people think was going

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to happen thirty years down the road. It seems like it's going exactly as

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planned by people like Jesse Jackson.
Well, it is, there's no question

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about it. We're at a crisis
point in our society. And I don't

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use that word for mismossly. We
really are at a crisis. I've never

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seen anything quite like it. When
you have people who are now wanting to

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substitute the American flag and put in
an Islamic flag, when they're looking about

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the glory and the wonders and the
liberating effect of moss how it's good.

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I call it child abuse in the
book. It's child abuse. But they

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called us a good thing to teach
little kids to think that they're not really

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of the right sex, and maybe
they want to undergo a chemical castration and

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puberty blockers and sex reassignment surgery.
We're dealing with evil here. This is

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not normal. But this is what
happens when you go down this road.

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And we've seen what happens when you
believe in moral relativism. That's thriving a

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lot of this. And I have
a segment in the book about what happened

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in Weimer, Germany, back in
the nineteen twenties, in the early thirties

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before him that came into power.
Everybody knows about the political reasons and the

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economic reasons as to how he came
into power, and the overreaching of the

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Versailles and punishing the German people,
and the depression and the runaway inflation and

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all that's true, and the humiliation
on the part of the Allies. But

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what people don't talk about was the
cultural collapse of Germany in the nineteen twenties,

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the kind of libertinism that took place, people having sex in the streets,

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people opening up the first transgender clinics. They didn't call it that at

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that particular point. The total degradation
of society. The why is this important

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to hip them? Because when you
break down the idea that people have to

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restrain themselves, that people have to
agree on some type of ordered liberty,

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then all kinds of things become possible. This breeds what sociologists call an on

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me a condition of normallessness. Whereas
there's no sich thing is right and wrong.

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Well, if there's no sich thing
is right and wrong, oh,

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we to tell the Nazis that they're
wrong, you know. I mean,

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it's just the same mentality which says, listen, if you don't believe in

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slavery, that's your opinion. I
do. So you don't want to own

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a slave, that's your business.
I do want to own one. And

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what is this is it of yours? I go into this at great length

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and the whole idea that morality comes
down to consent. That's all that matters

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as long as you agree. Really, so the mother and the son can

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agree to have sex. So now
incest is okay in our society because you

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have mutual consent. If people realize
where we're going, and it doesn't have

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to happen in the most extreme manifestation
right now. But that's where we're headed.

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If people don't understand God gave us
breaks, and particularly men put the

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breaks on their end a pleasure of
principle, and when you don't, you're

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going to have a runaway situation of
libertinism. And that's what we see in

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our society, which is not liberty. It's the abuse of liberty. Madison

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and others Ward, what would happen
if we went down this road? A

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lot of people have warned us.
And actually on that point, it reminds

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me of someone of what you were
saying about the French Revolution. My colleague

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John Daniel Davidson refers to this as
or the future as quote pagan America in

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his book, which I actuld called
pagan America. And it reminds me because

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you mentioned the French Revolution of you
know immediately what the Jacobins did. Because

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a lot of my friends on the
left will say, for example, I

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can have human rights without God.
I can have classical liberalism without a belief

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in Jesus Christ. What do you
say to that? Bill, I say

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that if I want to kill you
and make you my slave, on what

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grounds can you object? That's what
I would say. I feel like making

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you a slave. You have a
different opinion, So now we're equal.

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Right, all opinions are equal.
If we take up position, then you

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can justify everything in this world.
And by the way, John does very

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good work. Commend him. And
he's right to talk about the paganism.

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Remember people, it was the paganist
in the Roman era said that every kind

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of sexual expression man, boy,
sex and life, that's all good.

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You could do whatever you wanted to
woman. The woman had no right,

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The husband had all the rights.
Where did we get the idea that rights

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that the men have to respect them, that you have to stay be involved

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in a monogamous relationship and practice fidelity. Shouldn't accept every alternative lifetile good.

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The sexual revolution of the first century, it's called the Christian sexual revolution.

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So if you believe then everything goes, then you have no moral grounds than

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to resist when people disagree with you. I can come back and say,

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no, God commanded us. It's
in the Ten Commambments. You don't believe

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in God, you're down to opinion, and that doesn't seem to work too

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well. And you know, another
question for disaffected leftists who are even just

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looking at the cover of your book. The cover art is excellent. People

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should check it out if they haven't
seen it yet, and co get the

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book. But I feel like that
would resonate with a lot of people who

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maybe are always center. They would
vote Republican and they vote Democrat. Maybe

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they consider themselves socially liberal fiscally conservative, but they're really upset about what happened

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in twenty twenty. They're really upset
about what's happened since twenty twenty. They're

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looking around and they're wondering what on
earth. Only thirty three percent of Generation

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Z is proud to be an American. That's the pole that I was referencing

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earlier. They're thinking, where did
what happened in the country I grew up?

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And I'm terrified about the future.
If this is what it's going to

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look like, what should they start
thinking about? Bill Well, For one

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thing, they are to be educated. I mean, the ignorance is incredible.

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I spent twenty years in education,
sixteen as a professor. As I

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say, multiculturalism was the beginning of
this, that was even after the nineteen

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sixties. But we're literally teaching people
to hate the ignorance on the part of

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today's students about anything and you know, the only thing which I talked about

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in the book, which is apropos
here if you compare the American creed,

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which is the belief in freedom and
equality for everybody and rule by law,

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to reality, of course we fail, obviously, because you're never going to

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get the situation where it's perfect.
But what the intellectuals have done, they

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don't compare us to the where we
were in the past. When I taught

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a class in social problems, I
never had the students just go by the

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textbook, which is always written by
the left. I said to them,

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wait a minute, let's talk about
race, let's talk about class, let's

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talk about women, whatever the subject
might be. Let's compare today to where

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we were fifty one hundred and fifty
two hundred years ago in this country.

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Have we made progress? And then
I would say this, let's take the

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same subject and compare us today.
Ladies around the world. How are they

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doing in Africa, how are they
doing in Latin America, how are they

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doing in the Middle East? On
the Muslim run nations, how are they

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doing in communist China? How are
they doing in Russia? And now you

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get a mature understanding. Instead they
compare us to a never never land.

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You know, the professor could always
create utopia on the blackboard, and he

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compares present conditions to the American creed. Remember back in nineteen forty before it

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was a sweetish economist. I'm gonna
Myrtle who come over here and wrote an

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American dilemma. He said, America
is clearly not a racist society, but

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it has had racism, has marked
its history. And how will it work

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out? Well, you have a
tension between the American creed, which is

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beautiful, and the reality that they
are making progresive market, and eventually it

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will reconcile itself by a triumph of
the American creed. What we're teaching today

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is we're all phonies, we're all
liars. Everyone's been exploited. You know,

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is it doing it the most?
The people who actually live a world

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of white privilege, And they're the
ones now telling us that everybody else lives

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the world of white privilege. So
I guess that the Hispanics who are cleaning

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the toilets of the NBA and the
and the nfl H multimillionaires, they might

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be the oppressors. According to these
people's logic, it really is striking?

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And where do you think lawmakers,
people who deal in policy and even you

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know people voters, right, people
who are you know, on their phones,

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on the phones with congressman or you
know, quizzing them at the local

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town hall meetings. Where should people
who are thinking about the policy space be

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focused when it comes to fixing this
issue? Is it something that you know

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you need both obviously policy and cultural
change? Does the cultural change have to

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come before any policy change because it's
a country that doesn't have the appetite for

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the maybe the tough medicine that it
needs in the policy space. What happens

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going forward with just laws? Yeah, I'm you know, as a sociologist,

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obviously I lean to the culture changing
the society, and everything in society

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pretty much is a reflection of it. However, I want to emphasize this.

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I do believe that you just take
one issue, the transgenderism, the

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child abuse, these eighty percent of
these into a transition. You know,

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00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,559
girls think they want to be boys
and they ruin them for life. The

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00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,559
only way you're going to stop that
is through the state, to litigation,

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00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,039
to Paris rebel. Now they're already
doing that in Europe. So there's some

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00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,759
good signs here. The Dutch of
a greed at the twenty eleven study which

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00:28:06,759 --> 00:28:10,640
started this as all flawed. The
English, the Swedes, the Norwegians or

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the French, they're all beginning to
say that this is crazy. Sometimes it

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takes lawsuits to change the culture.
It did, you know, with integration.

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Let's face a Brown versus Board of
Education in nineteen fifty four was a

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00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,279
legal decision which had held, which
which propelled the kind of integration that we've

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seen in the progress in many respects
nineteen the right. Sometimes you can't wait

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for the culture to teach them to
teach the state. Sometimes the state has

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to teach culture. So I can
see it both ways. But the American

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people need to be educated. And
I keep saying to people if you hear

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00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:48,319
somebody on radio or TV, or
you read something that strikes you in your

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00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,240
gut as being bizarre, wrong,
I don't care if the person has how

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00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:57,880
many alphabets after his name, trust
your gut. Too. Many of the

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00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:03,759
so called experts have ruined our society. Again. I've worked with professors most

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00:29:03,799 --> 00:29:06,559
of my life. Many of them
are good men and women, but some

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00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,960
of them are the most dysfunctional people
I've ever seen. They don't have a

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00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:15,039
lick of common sense. I even
quote Laurie Calhoun in the book, who's

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00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:18,960
a postmodernist philosopher, and one philosopher
who's onto her game. He asked her

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00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:22,599
a very simple question. And I'm
not making this up, people, It's

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00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,599
all annotated. Every one of my
books is rich with attribution. I don't

401
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,599
just have opinions. And this professor
Detmar said to her, I got to

402
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:37,359
ask you a question. Are jiraffs
taller than ants? And her answer was

403
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:44,920
no, that's an article of religious
faith. That's what happens when postmodernism goes

404
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:51,200
off the rails, You become crazy. Is Trump going to raise taxes?

405
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,519
Watched out on Wall Street podcast with
Chris Markowski. Every day Chris helps unpack

406
00:29:55,559 --> 00:29:59,519
the connection between politics and the economy
and how it affects your wallet. Donald

407
00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:03,279
Trump promises to raise tariffs on Chinese
imports. That may cause China more,

408
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,359
but tariffs are just taxes own business, which are tacked onto the products that

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00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:11,599
you pay for. Whether it's happening
in DC or down on Wall Street,

410
00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:14,839
it's affecting you financially. Be informed. Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street

411
00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:18,599
Podcast with Chris Markowski on Apple,
Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

412
00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:26,480
Also, when most modernism goes off
the reels and is combined with hyper modern

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00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,640
technology, that makes it impossible for
us to It feels like, at least

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from my perspective, bil it makes
it impossible to find those points of consensus.

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I guess I just am curious if
you have any more thoughts on that

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building consensus. When the tech has
us sort of algorithmically intentionally all clustered into

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different niches, well we have to
do a better job of reaching of course

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the isle in terms of the faith
communities. When I first started here in

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New York, and I mean back
coming back home to New York, you

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have to be in a stint in
Pittsburgh as a professor. There was a

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00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,319
guy to the Artchsdyce in New York. His name is Jack Swane. Since

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passed away, they should institutionalize people
like him. His goal was to reach

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out to Jews, that Protestants,
other Catholics, the Orthodox, the Muslim,

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00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,880
every community possible, not just here
but elsewhere. We have to understand

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there are an awful lot of people
who may not share our faith in our

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00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:26,440
theological understanding, but then nonetheless,
culturally they're on the same side with us,

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00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,200
and so we shouldn't say, well, you know, I can't identify

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with all these Muslims because I don't
agree with everything. You don't have to

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00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:37,680
agree with everything. We've got to
get mature on this and start reaching across

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00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:41,839
the aisle, educating ourselves, but
also we're willing to form coalitions where it's

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00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:48,240
possible with reasonable people, and particularly
within the faith communities. That's so interesting,

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00:31:49,559 --> 00:31:52,559
especially in education, if we you
know, it's kind of where we

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00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,839
started. But just as we're winding
down, I'm curious about what prescriptions for

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00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,079
change in academia you might have,
Bill, because you've spent a long time

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00:32:02,759 --> 00:32:08,920
thinking about this and you know academia
very well. To me, also,

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00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,799
I've worked with students a lot,
and I've worked on campuses. I wonder

437
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,359
if it's not too big of a
challenge, And that sounds pessimistic, but

438
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,680
it just seems like turning the Titanic
around. What do you think Bill can

439
00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:23,359
be done? Well? It is
a big problem on the campus. There

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00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:28,680
are very few schools that haven't gone
and accepted the Wolk agenda. I would

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00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,279
simply do this all you need to
do. I'm not going to aim any

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00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:35,880
particular school. It could be any
school you want. Let's say your kid

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00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,160
is in high school and he's thinking
about going to ABC college or university.

444
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:44,359
One of the things you may want
to do is to reach out to those

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00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:50,640
professors. There's always good, level
headed, common sensical, patriotic American professors

446
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,920
on every college campus. They may
be in a minority, but they're there.

447
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,279
Find out who they are. You
can find well, my office and

448
00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:01,599
we'll give you a couple of resources
the different places you can check find out

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00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:07,000
who they are and sit down or
ask to meet with somebody like that who

450
00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:10,640
could maybe guide your students to some
of the professors on campus who will not

451
00:33:10,759 --> 00:33:15,799
corrupt your kids mind ideologically, so
when they come back at Thanksgiving for their

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00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:20,079
first opportunity to find out there's a
different kind of society there. Altogether,

453
00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:22,400
you can't you can't do it all
together, but you have to navigate this

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00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:28,960
a little better. I understood as
a guy who worked as a professor as

455
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,920
a conservative. I know I was
outnumbered and sometimes am I case because I'm

456
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,680
out I'm outspoken. Anyway, it
actually helped me to be outspoken, because

457
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,039
if they came after me, it
was so obvious what they were doing.

458
00:33:43,119 --> 00:33:46,279
I think sometimes when you try to
hide the fact that you're a patriotic American,

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00:33:46,839 --> 00:33:50,559
now, maybe sometimes you have to
do it sometimes. Can you setting

460
00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:54,440
yourself up for disaster? But check
out the colleges and universities and check out

461
00:33:54,519 --> 00:33:59,559
those level headed people on the campuses
and ask for their advice in terms of

462
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:05,279
what as and what professors on the
campus that you might facilitate your kid's education.

463
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:07,599
And Bill, I do have one
more question, just again based on

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00:34:07,679 --> 00:34:13,679
the cover of the book, which
I love. It evokes the protesters who

465
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,800
are throwing soup and whatever else onto
great works of art in the name of

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00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:23,039
climate change. And there's what's called
climate anxiety that some holes have found is

467
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:30,159
actually rather widespread among Generation Z,
which is interesting because as they are also

468
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:37,119
kind of aiming for utopia, they're
sort of miserable. And you know,

469
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:42,400
it's it's ugly to deface art.
It's it's ugly to take these great works

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00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,480
of beauty and deface them in the
name of climate justice or you know,

471
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:52,159
anti capitalism or whatever it is.
What do you think that speaks to that,

472
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:57,119
you know, these these protests have
been so specifically in many many cases

473
00:34:57,199 --> 00:35:01,719
focused on defacing beauty. I think
it deals with the dinirationation of a large

474
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:06,639
segment of our population, and by
that I mean the rootlessness. I just

475
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:12,519
did a paper recently on suicide.
We're now up to about fifty thousand Americans

476
00:35:12,639 --> 00:35:16,039
record number committing suicide. Who are
the most likely to do so, young

477
00:35:16,159 --> 00:35:20,599
people who have no belief in God, who are the most secular in the

478
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:25,639
generation ze liberal Democrats are the most
likely to kill themselves. Men are far

479
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,079
more likely to kill themselves than women. But leaving the men out and the

480
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:35,079
like. What I'm saying is that
these kids are suffering from anxiety or sometimes

481
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:38,119
it's constribed. There's no question about
it. Newsreare young kids. The therapy

482
00:35:38,199 --> 00:35:42,360
dog doesn't work all right. It
may make you feel a little bit better

483
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,960
right now, it's a massage people
of faith, and I wrote a book

484
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:50,800
about this a few years back called
the Catholic Advantage Out, Health, Happiness,

485
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,800
and Heaven Await The faithful people of
faith, and not necessarily Catholics across

486
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:59,960
the board, particularly in Western religion, are the ones who can handle adversity.

487
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,159
They're also the happiest of people without
question. Now, you just don't

488
00:36:04,199 --> 00:36:07,960
adopt religion because I want to be
happy. So it doesn't work on like

489
00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:10,719
a light switch. But you know, I compared the cloistered nuns, who,

490
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:15,599
according to our society, they must
be the least free. I compared

491
00:36:15,639 --> 00:36:19,000
them to the Hollywood celebrities, who
must be the freest people on earth.

492
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,719
And guess who the healthiest are psychologically, physically, and who are the happiest

493
00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:29,079
Yeah, clearly people of faith.
So the fact is that every time we

494
00:36:29,199 --> 00:36:32,320
have a problem on the campus.
I just looked at the CDC's recommendations to

495
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:38,000
help people who are suicidal. Not
once did they ever mention that perhaps you

496
00:36:38,119 --> 00:36:44,320
ought to consult a clergy person.
No, it was always a secular response.

497
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,119
The problems are secular driven, and
their answer is another secular response,

498
00:36:49,159 --> 00:36:52,679
which only makes it worse. I
mean, I'm not sure what the leftists

499
00:36:52,679 --> 00:36:57,199
ever done right, beginning back when
Brousseau is teaching Robust Pierre what to do,

500
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,360
and now we're aout crisis situation.
The long as we keep religion as

501
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:06,280
the boogeyman we're going to be,
we're going to suffer the consequences in our

502
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,280
society, and I'm on that proclaiming
some you know, crazy far right out

503
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,880
you know cults. I don't believe
in that myself. I'm talking about a

504
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:19,199
moderate, common sensical understanding of our
religious roots, tothlic, modestly Jewish,

505
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,440
and others. Bill donahue is the
author of the book Cultural Meltdown, The

506
00:37:23,559 --> 00:37:28,280
Secular Roots of Our Moral Crisis,
and of course ten other books. As

507
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,079
we mentioned at the top, that
book is out on June eighteenth. He's

508
00:37:31,199 --> 00:37:36,920
also the President and CEO of the
Catholic League League for Religious and Civil Rights.

509
00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:38,760
Bill, thank you so much for
coming back on the show. Well,

510
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,159
thank you, it's been my pleasure. You guys do wonderful work.

511
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,239
Keep it up. Oh well,
we really appreciate that. We appreciate you

512
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,599
being here. I'm an Alisashinsky,
culture editor at the Federalists. We'll be

513
00:37:47,679 --> 00:37:52,000
back soon with more. Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for

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00:37:52,079 --> 00:38:00,760
the fray. All