There are countless stories in the city about the lives lived here, about how
the fates of others intertwined with our own in ways we can never expect or
predict. I'm a reporter. This is my job to see, to understand.
But there are stories behind these stories, stories about terrors. I've only
begun to train my eyes to see. I've learned this scene carries a heavy
burden. Is once open to the darkness, our eyes can never be closed
again. That was the voice of reporter Perry Read in the case we're calling
what's the frequency cold Check? It was the tenth and final episode of The
night Stalker, which was released, or, as we like to say around
here, dumped unceremoniously onto iTunes March seventeenth, two thousand and six. I
am joined, of course, by my regular co host, Well he's only
regular when he eats a lot of brand, mister Chris tashe and one and
a two and a three bum bum one. It's the frequency could check.
That's all I can think of. It just sounds like a goddamn song.
It is a song almost and our am song. And also joining us on
this episode is mister Richard had him I've been dragged here against my wishes by
Chris. You're welcome. Yeah, I'm not gonna say anything other than that.
Yeah, I'm glad you're owning it. With all of the talk of
the New night Stalker, I had never watched a single episode, had never
intended to, and now I can no longer say that. I'm no longer
a virgin. So much easier to make fun of something when you have no
experience of it. I mean, I exclusively mock things I've never seen,
because once you see it, then then in a weird way, you're sort
of investing. I mean, I don't know, or I get into a
place of all I see what they're trying to do, because you have to
realize I've worked with ABC. I swear to god. I worked with those
people, the studio executives that they were dealing with when this show was being
done. I did a show for ABC before this, and I did a
show for ABC just a couple of years after this, so I know the
experience they were going through when they were doing it, and even watching the
episode, I was like, oh boy, I can almost I can almost
I can almost read the network notes scrolling by at the bottom of the stream.
So spoiler alert, this is my favorite episode of Night Stock or two
thousand and five. Spoiler alert for me. This to me, for me,
just kind of another episode. I mean, look it this way,
It's okay. I think you're right, Mike. This is kind of top
of the pile for this show because most of the other episodes have been It's
interesting that we're going all the way back to the beginning of the series and
we are having invisible monsters again and mythology, well kind of mythology. Right.
That's a question I have for you, guys, because even not having
seen the other episodes, usually you can watch an episode, or I can
watch an episode of a show and go, oh, clearly this is referring
to stuff they've talked about before, or this is a big payoff. Clearly
this meant something to those who are following along that it may not mean as
much to me because I haven't been filled in. But I get it this
is a big payoff. But I was a little bit unclear if this episode
was providing any of that. Did they know this was the final episode?
Were they trying to do that? No, they did not know this was
the final episode, and we're not one percent done with Carl from two thousand
and five two thousand and six, because there were two more episodes, and
fortunately question Mark they released those scripts on the DVD release of this, so
we will be talking about those two scripts, including the one that they readapted
for one of the X Foul reboot episodes. So we're not done with Cole
Chack reboot, got it? Got it? Okay? So so they thought
they were doing maybe a full thirteen episode order. Yeah, and then I'm
not sure when they got told they're not doing anymore. But I don't think
that this well, this doesn't wrap up the series whatsoever. And for me,
and feel free to argue with me, Chris, because I know you
love to do it, this doesn't add to mythology whatsoever. This feels like,
what do you call it? A bottle episode. The mythology stuff that
they bring up in this episode is just that like, oh, this is
the thing you've always wanted to know, Cold Jack, because I'm the monster
that's going to give you what do you want? And like I'm just a
trickster monster that's giving you your deepest desires. So it's not really the mythology
you're right, but they bring up the mythology because they bring up col Chack's
dead wife, which is mythology just for this show. That is the show's
mytholog is the whole thing with Kolchak's wife and how did she die and the
mark of Kine or whatever whatever they're going for, that thing that they really
touched on like once and then never brought up again. I mean, as
far as I know, that is the core mythology. I mean, that's
that's the equivalent of Mulder's sister, right, So it's the mystery of how
his luck, which which by the way, so I mean again you know,
spoiler alert fourteen years later. But but one of the weird parts of
the episode was that there was a scene, you know, two thirds of
the way through where it looked like the implication was that the person I know,
we haven't really set up the episode, but the person you know,
who was the antagonist of the episode, it appeared that like it was being
hinted that he was the murderer of Coleshack's wife. At least I thought that's
what they were trying to say. But then Coleshack's behavior didn't necessarily you know,
he didn't immediately, you know, react to that information. Did anyone
else feel that way? I didn't get that he murdered the wife. It
sounded like he was in the same insane asylum and he heard about the wife.
But I didn't get the implication that he killed the wife. No,
he heard about Colcheck talking about it, right, But I didn't get the
inference as far as like, oh, yeah, and he had also killed
her. But yeah, you're right, we should probably set this up a
little bit better. We have this cold open of this guy getting pushed down
a hallway in a wheelchair and there's something at the end of the hallway and
he's very upset about it, and the guy who's pushing him a little off
balance, and then that's our cold open. Then, like I said,
Perry gets the vo That's the first time in this entire series that she gets
the vo at the beginning and at the end. It's the same kind of
horseshit that we've talked about before, with the way that Colcheck does the vos,
with the words on the screen and all this kind of stuff. I'm
not sure why she did it unless Stuart Townsend just wasn't available at this point.
Maybe I don't know. That's one of the frustrating things, is that
again, seeing that part, I knew, oh, this is different because
I know you guys have talked about how it's always obviously Koleshack doing the narration,
and I thought, oh, well, now that she's doing it,
it'll be an episode that's from her point of view. And then it wasn't
like that's all you could possibly infer from. Oh she's doing it now,
this is her journey. We're going to see the world through her eyes instead
of Koleshack. He'll be involved. So I was like, oh, interesting,
And then that did not happen at all. I'm not even sure she
was super clear on really what happened. By the end of the episode,
I'm like, well, c Clinton is still in the dark. To be
fair, I was kind of in the darkest to what happened as well,
because you clearly see her show up at the house, but that's not really
her, I don't think. But is that so is it in their minds
or is it is it in their minds? It's an invisible goddamn monster.
Let's talk about that at the moment jumping the gun here, Well, but
here's the but the thing about Perry, the thing that you do mention about
Perry is that she's not in the episode very much. But let's be honest
here, I'm glad it wasn't focused on her because her character has been woefully
underdeveloped in this show. Anyways, Well, this could have been an opportunity
for her though, sure delfare. So okay, so now we're gonna we're
gonna get you know, start stealing that bucket a little bit so that you
know see clearly the Coleshack bucket. Uh isn't ringing anyone's bell too hard,
So let's do the other one. But you know, go ahead with more
of the recap of actually what happens in the episode. So we have the
vo we rejoined the story, and we've got Colchak working on a missing person's
case. It's kind of late at night, and Perry starts talking about this
birthday party, which I don't know if he was actually invited and forgot invited
and didn't want to go or just never invited, but it sounds like he
might go maybe. But anyway, she leaves a story. She's off and
her own thing. That's where we see Jane. Eventually we'll see Vincenzo,
not at the birthday party but after and then Colchak there late at night in
the office, gets a visit from this again rather unhinged guy who's played by
Pat Healy and what's his character's name, Paul, I think, and Paul
thinks that Colchak is sending him a code through the articles that Colcheck has written
throughout this entire series. So here I was thinking, Okay, now we're
going to tie together some of this stuff. It's going to be like the
end of the first season of Fringe, where they start to tie all of
these disparate cases together and bring them all together. But unfortunately Paul's kind of
a lunatic. He kidnaps Colcheck and then we spend pretty much the entire rest
of the episode in Paul's house and him talking with cold Check. It's almost
like a two man play of these two guys in this little room. And
there's potentially a monster at the end of the hall. And of course,
as I say that, I keep thinking about Grover. You know, there's
a monster at the end of this book. So we're going to talk about
that monster, which is called the Old Man. So it sounds like Paul's
got a lot of father issues and he has been dealing with this or not
dealing with this for a long time. And yeah, he lives a very
weird existence, like the only thing in his main room is a toilet,
and then stacks and stacks and newspapers, because it seems like he is very
obsessed with all of the codes that he is picking out of the newspapers.
And would also say that the name of this episode, What's the frequency,
cole Check, it's a reference to Dan Rather, and that he was attacked
by a guy on the street years ago who just kept saying, Kenneth's the
frequency, Kenneth, what's the frequency? And was beating Dan Rather all the
time while he was asking that. And then that kind of entered into pop
culture being the RM song. And then I read a great conspiracy theory book
years ago that was trying to tie in Dan Rather being in Dallas nineteen sixty
three with this Kenneth was the frequency, and it gets into real murky territory.
But it was pretty great. Yeah, And that guy apparently who attacked
Dan Rather, he thought that NBC was putting out some sort of or he
thought the news networks or the networks were putting out its kind of a common
delusion. They were putting out a signal directly to him, and he wanted
that signal to be turned off, and he needed to know the frequency,
so he attacked Dan rather to find out what that frequency was so he could
stop these messages beaming into his head. Later on, like ten years later,
that guy killed an NBC employee, like a security guard, because he
was trying to break into NBC. He was still plagued by that same delusion
and actually murdered a guy. So, I mean, it's a pretty dark
ending to that, So it's perfect for a pop song. It's like,
hey man, nice shot right about Bud Dwyer killing himself on Live DV,
which I, alice thought was about Kurt Cobain, But I just recently read
the Bud Dwyer thing, which is somehow way worse. Yeah, way,
way, way worse. Just like the conclusion to that story that Richard just
oh my god again having only heard about the show and then finally watching it,
it's pretty clear that this incarnation of the night Stalker is preoccupied, like
really preoccupied with that sort of like really Chris Carter kind of level of almost
Millennium style. You know, the world is an existentially horrible place and there
is no solution to the mystery other than more horror and darkness. I mean,
that's definitely the feeling I got from this episode, and I kind of
assume that's the other episodes. Also, I'd like to point out here that
Richard just mentioned Millennium, a TV show that no one has mentioned in twenty
nineteen. Might one even say people don't even know that that show existed except
except for the crossover episode from Exiles. Lance Henrickson will remind you about that
if you ever talked to him, because he's still waiting for the movie.
He'll also remind you when you talk to him that he hates puppets and loves
making pottery. If he could do that for a living, he would.
I like how we both spoke to Lance Henrickson Mike, and neither one of
our interviews are even close to being one of them touched on anything close to
similar. What do you think about on a daily basis, how much I
hate puppets? In Potter and hopefully a Millennium movie coming soon, He's got
this idea of making a pot and then have it basically fired by the fires
of the mushroom cloud that will strike near his home, and then it turns
into a beautiful pot after the entire rest of the world has gone to ash.
That's astounding. Yes, you're right, Richard. That's the thing that
we've talked about multiple times on this podcast is that this show, this like
you said, incarnation of coal Check, is just the X Files, even
down to the fact that they pair coal Check with a female character who is
a skeptic and he's a believer. And there's a Skinner esque character in Tony
Vincenzo. I mean, not really as much as Skinner, because Skinner was
almost in every episode of The X Files and later on in the Run.
And you know that formula worked for the ex Files because you had really charismatic
leads in Decovney and Anderson, and there was actual chemistry, like palpable,
tangible chemistry between the two. And again, like we said before, there
isn't in this show. Stuart Townsend. It's not his fault entirely anymore than
it's Gabriel Union's fault. But they don't have any chemistry. And you know
what, this is the last actual episode of the show we're going to be
watching, and you know what, I think, Mike, you and I
can walk away and say that that never changed just having the benefit of seeing
only this episode. There is that one scene, which then we are told
is clearly imagined by Cole Shack, where she comes and tries to help him,
and I like, and of course me and I think maybe any viewer
just sort of looking for, you know, working for humanity, looking for
a human connection, a relationship to root for. I was sort of like,
oh okay, oh I see where this is going. They worked together.
I get that Koleshack is alone wolf, he's doing his own thing.
She clearly has some heart, and now this is a moment where they're connecting.
Oh okay, great, And I was really excited about that until what
happened right afterwards, and then until I found out that it probably wasn't real,
which it wasn't real. I mean again, I don't know how to
process what ends up happening in the later part of this episode, because what
Pat Healy is talking about at the beginning of the episode ends up not really
factoring into anything. There's like a weird body horror nod where it's like I
cut off my toe to get rid of the old man. It's like,
what this feels like is and we've talked about this on other episodes of the
show and on other episodes of other shows that we're on. This is a
good idea that ends up going nowhere, ends up being too scatter shot for
its own good. It's like when you and I talked about anti viral Mike,
It's like, how many good ideas can you throw at the wall?
You need to pick one or two and don't try to go for the full
spectrum of just bizarre shit to throw at the screen. When you have an
episode like this, the expectation when a guy is clearly crazy, usually a
character like that is used as you know, almost a non human way to
inject theme. You know. It's like it's like this person, because they're
crazy, doesn't have to follow any rules, doesn't have to have like a
motivation that we're like, he's not committing the perfect crime, he's just crazy.
So the purpose he ends up serving in a show like this usually is
I'm going to magically speak your heart. It's kind of like what Chris was
saying earlier, like I'm going to be a straight shot into Coleshack's soul,
and so this is going to be a way to reveal to the audience cole
Shack greatest hopes, dreams, fears in a way that feels like you arrive
at something and that you could not arrive at in any other reasonable way,
because Colesack involves in a crazy world, so only a crazy person could speak
any truth to that. I guarantee that that was the expectation, probably when
they wrote it and probably for anyone watching it, was we're not going to
get anything that makes sense. So at least we'll get the big thematic truths
of the show that haven't come yet. And I don't think we got that.
Did the thing that I wonder about with this show, because look,
we will never truly know what the potential of this show was going to be,
because, like you said, Richard, you can see the writing from
the studio kind of on the wall. When we talked to Frank Spott,
and it's what seems like Mike forever ago he said as such about the show,
that there was studio meddling. And what we'll never know is what this
show could have been, or what this show was before it was turned into
a cheap X Files knockoff, but thus the spark, the seedling of an
idea, like you said, Richard, is there for chemistry between the two
of them. It just it's too little, too late. It's really too
little too late. This is the last episode. And again, like you
said, Mike, they didn't know, but you're thirteen episodes in, like
come on. And then the weird part is the beginning. Her beginning narration
is all about how you know when you know there's darkness behind darkness, and
then when you see it, you can't unsee it again, which implies that
she is going to witness something that she's never witnessed, and it seems to
be or about to be paid off when she joins him in this muffross place
and then gets shot. And you know, when you're writing the episode,
as you're watching it and imagining various outcomes, you're thinking, oh my god.
So the final scene of this episode will probably be Coole shack and sees
in the hospital and he's standing by her bed and and she's like, what
the fuck was that? What happened? And he's kind of like, yeah,
honey, welcome to the party. I'm dealing with this ship all the
time. And if you love me or you want a relationship with me,
you know it got my wife killed. It's you know, it almost got
you killed. That's the challenge of being Carl Koleshack's girlfriend. And then the
question becomes, oh, so how is this relationship going to develop? If
that's the case, which could have been cool, Well, anything is better
than Jane McMahon is dancing at the party with those other people, right,
Yeah, that was the most depressing party I've ever seen. That was a
pretty bad party. Yeah. Yeah, Cole Check is lucky he got kidnapped,
right, he had the better night overall. I think the way you
have this show end, if they had known the show was ending, is
you have Perry Reid murdered. Colcheck goes on and he devotes himself more to
finding whatever. But that would be tough because I mean, don't you need
to have some investment in that relationship for that murder? To me, it's
like the wife's murder is nothing, but okay, we just need to set
up, you know, context. But I mean, the joke about the
X Files is people really did tune in to watch that relationship and they didn't
really They said that relationship less than You Fee the Cactus, and people still
were so into it. This episode had moments for me, real good jump
scares, like when Paul's caseworker shows up, mister Kim, and when Paul
shows up and zaps him with a taser rudimentary taser. I was like,
okay, you know, like, hey, this guy's gonna come. He's
gonna you know, I know that this is coming, but it still was
just like, get out of there, get out of there kind of a
thing. Yeah. And then when Carl's got a thermographic camera for whatever,
right what maybe just carries it around with him, and when he gives it
to Paul and he's like, oh, go ahead, you know, look
at the end of the hallway and you'll see nothing. And then when he
holds it up and there's an actual shape there, it's just like, oh
shit, now it's on. So I was like, Okay, these are
some real good moments here. Like I said, this is my favorite episode
of the show, but that doesn't mean very much because the rest of these
episodes have been so poor. So it's just like this is like a good
trip to the doctors. You still have to go to the doctors. But
at least like you didn't have to get a you know, a rectal exam
or something. What is it. Our friend father Malone always says, the
world's tallest midget. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Well okay,
so so let me let me circle back to something that you questioned before,
which again seems like pretty low hanging fruit, but still it was too high
for the world's tallest midget. In the first scene where we're in the newsroom,
you know, the office where Coolshak works with Perry, she comes by.
She mentions, Okay, they're throwing me this party and everyone knows about
it, and Colshack's like, I don't know about it, and she's like,
no, it's okay. I know you don't have to keep the secret.
And he's like, no, I really don't know about it. I
actually thought that was really cool because I thought the joke was they literally didn't
invite him, but then later on you find out that they did invite him,
which then not only made it like less fun to go, oh my
gosh, Kleshak is such an outsider that they don't even invite him to this
party, but it also made it well, no, they did invite him,
and he's insisting either insisting they didn't, or he's insisting they didn't so
he doesn't have to go, which then seems weird because it's like, well,
dude, you know, that's kind of throwing cold water on whatever relationship
I'm hoping for here. And then the third weird part of all of that
was he doesn't appear to be doing anything in office. He doesn't even have
a story like, oh, I'm waiting for an important call or I'm meeting
someone, or there's a reason I'm here. He's literally bouncing a ball off
the window. He's not doing He's not engaged in anything. So I was
confused by all of that. I thought, for sure, Okay, this
guy is creepy as fuck, let's not invite him. So I was really
hoping that it was going to be more of that social outsider kind of a
thing. I mean, at least that plays into his character. If that
would have been cool. But tell me who's the dude at the party though,
the dude who is talking to Perry. Is that a guy? Is
that a regular in the show. Yeah, that's Jane McManus. He is
their roving photographer. Imagine a character that's willfully underdeveloped. Yet one episode they
pretend to kill him off and we're supposed to care about that, which we
don't. Well going to say, are we supposed to like him or is
he like comic relief or what role does he play in the show? You
kind to just mentioned all of it, like he's almost a shaggy but not
this endearing and he doesn't need as much. The character you're missing that is
good is Alex Niby, which is unfortunate because Eugene Bird is as Alex Niby
is actually one of the better aspects of this show, and he only was
on what are we say in three episodes? And what does he do?
What's his deal? He worked at the Morgue? Oh okay, okay.
It is funny how there's sort of the parallels to the old show, like
he's the John Fiedler. Yeah, he was not Gordy the Ghoul by any
stretch of the imagination. He was actually helpful to pole Jack. I mean,
I've gone around with Chris about this as far as is Jane completely superfluous,
and I always come around to the point of, yes, I don't
think that he really needs to be there because he's more like we've talked about
this before as far as is like Perry takes turns with him, as far
as being the damsel in distress, and neither what because they've split essentially what
could be one character into two characters. Neither character is very well developed,
because like that could be one character theoretically, right, Mike, I don't
think I'm like really stretching on that one. But Jane McManus now and here
at the end of the show kind of a post mortem of what we've seen,
Jane McManus and Perry Reid could have just been one character. Having not
seen the pilot episode of the more modern version, did it feel like in
that pilot episode, Like, did feel like, Oh, it's like they
obviously want this character to be a particular thing, but it just never ended
up happening, like like, oh, clearly he's the goofy friend. But
then oh, I guess not. I mean, was there anything like that
going on? Was Jane even it was Jane? Even it was Jane even
in the first episode of the show. I'm pretty sure he was there in
that garage when they first meet Colecheck, who's already beat them to the scene,
and he calls them by the wrong name or something like Jane calls Colcheck
by the wrong name. I'm pretty sure he was there and somebody for period
to have like an as an ally against Colechack. And that's kind of that
same role that he's played. But then he's kind of to fill you in
a little bit more, Richard, he's gone back and forth and he's mostly
swung over to Colchack side, where it's just like, Okay, yeah,
you're saying it's monsters, then it's probably monsters. Let's go look at for
the monsters. But he's he doesn't even have that like jaure, that passion
or anything where he wants to, you know, be the new monster Hunter.
And like you know, he's like he's nowhere near Mutt from Constantine or
something. He's not like, oh, I want to be the next monster
Hunter. And he's not even the lone gunman from the X Files. He's
just kind of there. He's there. He is definitely there, just like,
oh, by the way, Richard, let's also point out again,
since we're kind of now just talking about the show, Vincenzo yet another woefully
underserved character in this version of the show. But hey, you got to
actually see him in this episode, which I think is the first time in
like three episodes. So yeah, he doesn't like to show up very often.
And that was weird too. Yeah, that was a weird little moment
with him, because again he didn't It's like it's like at a loss for
doing anything else. They just have people continue to echo the you don't understand
the darkness that Coleshack lives with, you know kind of party line, which
feels like the like that's kind of what Vincenzo was saying, Like whatever he
was saying in this episode, it just felt like it was just reinforcing this
notion that Coleshack's a dark guy in a dark world and you know, the
end Instinctionally, I'm like out in the other show, Vincenzo was the you
know Nemesis antagonist. You know, he wasn't the monster, but he was
the real wife person saying Coleshack, you're wrong. And then up Dike was
like, I'm like, oh so is McManus, is James and Gannus sort
of was he starting out like the up Dike or I guess not, or
he's not even the marml Stne Speaking of Monique, a certain someone may have
sent us a certain signed picture by a certain Monique marmal scene. Well you
know you you you guys have an admirer, you know out of the podcast
first doubted the Warner Brothers lot. Just just put it on the pile with
all the other gifts you get from your listeners. Boy, that is a
pile of what. Be careful, Chris, you might die under the pile.
The pile lapse on me. You know. I think the thing about
this show is, you know, we've had some interviews where we've talked to
folks like Frank spot Bets, like Eugene Bird. Their hearts were in the
right places, but it just it failed in spite of I mean, look,
it was a good idea, but at the same time, I still
kind of question remaking a show that was essentially made a lot better twenty years
after it came out. Anyways, I think ABC executives went, Okay,
we own this show called The night Stalker, it's one of our properties.
And recently a very very huge, humandously popular show called The X Files was
on TV. So maybe there's a way to meld those two. But the
problem being anyone tuning in for The night Stalker isn't going to get that because
there's no humor, no charm, no fun. And then anyone turning in
for The X Files is not going to get that either, because they're getting
a warmed over substitute. You end up. I mean, I tell you,
I feel Frank Spotts's pain. I listen to that interview and I'm like,
yeah, you know, he had an original idea that's like, well,
maybe this is a way you really can can serve as the character and
the fans of the old show, but updated a little bit. And I
think ABC was just like, no, your X Files guy, just give
us, Please bring your X Files compatriots in with you to write this episode.
Vince Gilligan is credited as a writer in this episode, and we all
know Vince Gilligan is a good writer. It's it's a disappointment. And look,
I know you go on the cold Check Facebook pages or anywhere where they
talk about the show, and this show gets piled upon constantly, almost I
wouldn't say unnecessarily because some of it is deserved, but this show gets piled
upon and some of it is deserved. But at the same time, a
lot of those folks didn't even watch it. We watched it. We watched
it like we watched Suffer for our suffer my children. But it's it's not
that bad. It's really not It's just not much of anything. To be
perfectly honest, I will say one thing, and I'd love to hear your
opinions on this, though. I thought the look of the show was really
ugly, Like I just thought, what is going on? It's like super
like really brightly lit and then also extremely dark, Like it was almost physically
uncomfortable to watch, just in terms of like I mean, the X Files
was a beautiful show. I even liked the look of the original Nightstocker TV
show. This was kind of unpleasant to look at. And I think,
I mean, I'm gonna say maybe that was because they just they wanted it
to be jarring and jagged and handheld, and but I didn't love to look
at the show. What about you, guys, I can totally see what
you're saying. As far as I mean, this episode in particular was very
very stark, and the lighting in Paul's place was really harsh. I kind
of thought that worked in service of it. But as far as the stuff
outside of Paul's place, and I don't mean outside of his actual house,
but I'm talking about like the world at large. Yeah, it looks like
warmed over garbage. And here's the other thing about this show, right,
I mean we have to talk about when this show came out. Show came
out in two thousand and six. And look, Richard, I mean you
mentioned The X Files, and The Xiles is a beautiful show until it went
to LA and left Vancouver, and once it left Vancouver, the X Files
became similarly drabbed to this show. And this show. It feels like if
you showed the show to someone and asked them when do you think this came
out? I think someone would be able to put it within a couple of
years of when the show aired, because it has that mid two thousands original
CSI feel to it. You know what, Yes, that's what it looks
like. It looks like CSI like shitty CSI. Yeah, And yeah,
camera movement for no reason, just to you know, keep things interesting quote
unquote. I honestly try to consciously remind myself watching this episode. I'm like,
well, don't compare it to the original, because obviously it is not
that. But what if you just were changing channels and landed on this show.
What would you get from it? And I think that's when I arrived
at that place of Wow, this is just pretty grim. This is just
like really unpleasant. You know, poor Reggie Lee, who by the way,
was on Grim when I worked on Grim. So I was like,
oh my god, there's Reggie you know ten, you know, five years
before, seven years before Grim. Look, he got work. So I
was so happy to see him and so disturbed to literally watch him bleed out
right in front of America. It's like, oh fuck, and then turn
into a monster. Maybe to your point from earlier, Richard, that is
where he comes out and is trying to implicate that Paul murdered Colcheck's wife.
So you were absolutely right, there is that moment in there of the implication.
But yeah, Colcheck never seems to go off. Yeah right, Okay.
I thought it was crazy. He's like he came back with blood on
him and he yeah, okay. And what it seems like is that the
old man or whatever this creature is that has been tormenting Paul, like we
all like we're initially we're supposed to think, oh, it's all about his
head and then we think, oh, well, maybe there's a creature.
And then we think again, okay, maybe it's in his head. And
then when Kim comes out and he's like, yeah, it's all you know,
he tried to kill your wife or blah blah blah, then it's like,
okay, now he's is that really him? Is that something else?
What's going on? Is he trying to use colcheck in order to get him
to murder Paul? And basically yeah, that's how it goes, because then
Parry shows up. And when Perry shows up, I was just like,
well, that's really weird. How did she know where colcheck was? And
then she gives this excuse of oh I traced a call, and it's like
okay, But then when she comes into the apartment or into the house,
I'm just like, what the fuck are you doing? Get the fuck out
of there. And they're talking so loud in that front room. I'm like,
what are you doing? I thought the exact same thing. I'm like,
what is going on? And not only that, but why is he
not saying why is he not crazed? Why is he not like there is
a man in the next room who murdered my wife? I have found a
man who killed my wife and I'm going to go kill him and Perry's like,
no, no, don't do it. Like I was expecting some of
that. Then I'm like, well, maybe I misheard it. Maybe I
was just making that up thinking that's what I wish was happening. It was
confusing. That's Stewart Townsend. You cannot get a rise out of Stewart Townsend.
He was if he was ever invested in this show, he was definitely
not. By this point. I've never seen him even raise his voice.
You know, he's just the deadest and yeah picked up. It was funny
at the end when when he grabbed him and he did the rigs line from
a lethal weapon, He's like, you think you're all man down there,
let's go see him together. That's the only time I've seen him emotional in
this whole thing. So I was just like, wow, that's very surprising.
So I think maybe that also helped kind of, you know, push
the needle up a little bit for me. And when it came to this
episode, like oh oh shit, he's actually emotional, he's actually going to
do something. He's defending Perry. Wow, this is this is fantastic and
he manages to murder this guy. Yeah, it doesn't. And that is
what you want. I mean, look, you you want this guy to
be killed. Yeah, there's no part of it. It's just well,
no, just arrest him. I mean, it was very satisfying, horribly
enough to watch Cole Shack, you know, do what you think is throwing
him to the lions essentially right, and and yet still unclear how that guy
then ultimately died unless he just hit the wall really hard, and and and
then unclear how we're supposed to feel about Coleshack, his wife's murder, and
his relationship with Perry and his hallucination. So a lot of things kind of
left on the table, which I don't know. Maybe the next maybe those
two scripts, uh you know, or the the reconfigured one will explain what
do you think I'm not hold my breath. Yeah, I wouldn't hold your
breath because the likelihood is you're not going to get a satisfying conclusion, which
I they concluded it right as far as what with this episode, No,
the other episode like the one words like to the Sea or two parter right
in the middle of the season, which again it's like what the fuck are
you guys doing? I thought that they had already wrapped that up. Yeah,
the Source Part one in part two, episode six and seven wraps what
story up. They pretty much tried to so we had a little bit of
that mythology the whole like he's got this weird mark on his wrist, and
so did his wife, and so did these other people, YadA YadA,
And they bring that up in the first episode, I think a little in
the second, more in the third, maybe in the fourth they just kind
of throw it on, and then the episode six and seven they really go
all in on mythology, and then after that we don't hear about it really.
I think there was a mention of it what in nine Chris. It
seemed like there was just a real quick throwaway kind of thing. But yeah,
they pretty much they didn't wrap up the mythology, but they just were
like, here's some mythology. Now we're going to go away from it,
and now we're back to Monster of the Week. The mythology, I mean,
look in the X Files, it's there until it's not, and then
but it always feels like it's still underneath everything in this show. It's almost
like they forgot about it, Like you said, like, did they ever
help anyone in this show? Like does he ever? Like in The X
Files, they ultimately were kind of theoretically helping people like Okay, well we've
solved the weird murders in this town, you know, so you kind of
were they were called into a case and then they solved it. I mean,
does it ever feel like they were doing it on this show? Was
that ever like a structure of an episode? Thanks fack, you help something?
Gosh? Usually they were like a daily and then Dallas short when it
came to so many of these cases. I think they helped apprehend some people,
like I'm thinking of burning Man, which was a very generic CSI of
yeah, and like the five people you meet in Hell, like, but
you never get that warm, fuzzy feeling of like this person's going to go
off and live a wonderful life now that these people have solved this mystery,
right right, I mean, at least in the old Colfax show, it
was never warm and fuzzy, but you're at least like, wow, okay,
so, I mean I guess you know, the Moss Monster is not
going to kill anyone more that one's done with. Yeah, and the other
problem, you know, I kind of misspoke when I said, you know,
Monster the Week, because that was the thing with this show was there's
no monsters, you know, in this episode is typical of that as far
as you know, I think Timeless was the last time we saw a really
like a halfway decent monster, and that was just basically a rip off of
the night Strangler again, where it was just like, oh, this person
comes out every thirty five years and needs to feed. So it's like,
okay, great, we've seen that. You know, Jeepers, creepers,
yeah, Victor Toombs, yeah, oh yeah, almost like a show that
did it better exactly. Again, I think at the end of the day
with this show, the thing that I really come away from this show with
is a just general feeling of I want to watch The X Files. I
essentially watch an episode of The X Files every time I watched an episode of
this to kind of remind myself of what this could have been. And then
I realized that ultimately at the end of the day, we kind of,
in my mind, should have silenced some of the people that were like,
this is fucking garbage. It's not really it's just just watch the original show,
because it is the original show is better. But also the other thing
is, do not pretend that the original show is perfect, because if you're
going to say how bad this show is, you also kind of have to
grapple with the fact that the original show has a lot of nostalgia baked into
it, and a lot of people are unwilling too. They're just like,
well, the original show is great and the new show is garbage. They're
still sounding chamber. Everyone agree with me. Yes, yes, yes,
yes, that's kind of what it feels like. Yeah, I totally agree.
But I will say that I think part of that ceiling is engendered by
the fact that the original show traded so much on charm and humor and just
the charm of Darren McGavin, so that it's easy to remember it fondly,
you know, because it's like someone it's like, oh, that was my
favorite uncle, and then this was like a really scary substitute teacher who wants
to murder you. Oh no, I completely agree. I mean the thing
about the original show that is why it was so successful is because Darren McGavin
is so charismatic. Look at why Supernatural has been on the air for thirteen
seasons. Look at why The X Files has had two reboots. It's because
you have people in the roles that matter, that are charismatic, that people
can get behind, that people care about and like. Look at shows like
I Don't Know Anything, Jesus Christ, Stranger Things, any show that people
watch, they like the characters because the people in the roles are charismatic and
good at what they do. I'm not saying Stewart Town's in as bad as
what he had, what he does, or Gabriel Union. I'm just saying
they aren't in this show, and that's a bummer because it could have been
like the original show. They could have really played up the charismatic nature of
Cold Check as opposed to making him, like you said, Richard, mister
dark and gloomy all the time. Well yeah, and this is you know,
obviously me arguing my taste. But when you hang your hat on dark,
existential nealism and horror, I mean, I actually think that's a pretty
you know, that's a pretty narrow target to hit. And then even when
you hit it dead on, what you've achieved is pretty cold, which is
a flavor. And that's you know, you don't. Not everything has to
be you know, aspirational and life affirming. But that's a that's a hard
thing to hit over and over and over again and feel like you're you're adding
up to something because I think instinctually people are watching a TV show looking for
a long term storytelling and and A and A part of that long term storytelling
being the development of relationships that you get caught up in and have a stake
in those relationships succeeding. And that's what gives you tension. Oh no,
that these people might break up or they might die or whatever. You and
that's easier to achieve in a way. So I think another thing you had
with this show is is the result of the studio wants one thing, that
network wants another thing, that people actually doing the show want another thing,
and then none of those things get achieved. And what you're watching is what
is the levers? You know, what got left behind, the stuff that
was so unobjectionable or that no one you just had the energy to fight.
Okay, here's what's left. And we've all seen shows like that, and
I think this is one of them, and it's it's like no one's fault
because the studio didn't want to ruin this show. They wanted a hit so
to the network, so they all thought they were doing the right thing.
Yeah, it's that old what success has many fathers and failure has none?
Or how's that go? You know what? I'd like to point out that
I was actually the one who gave Jason Vorhees his mask set eight different people
in the documentary about the series. But yet, but yet, no one
will claim responsibility for Jason Takes Manhattan being filmed in Vancouver. So yeah,
it's that same shit. It's like you said, no one wants to take
responsibility for this show being a failure. And I'm not blaming Frank Spotnitz,
but someone should shoulder some of the blame other than just saying it's the studios
invisible men on the other side of an invisible mirror or like a two like
a one way mirror. You know, it's it's at that end. Look,
I mean, Richard, you work, you work in the industry,
so you know that it's a convenient thing to blame. And honestly, a
lot of people probably blame it for their own inadequacy's been being able to craft
a worthwhile story to tell. What none of us have spent five minutes doing
on this show is talking about what a shit writer Jim Skill again is because
you know he isn't He did good work before this, he did good work
after it, So that's part of what you factor in. And again it's
personal taste. But it's like, all right, well, you know Frank
Spott, and it's did some good work before this, he did some good
work after this. So we're going to assume he might not have been the
number one reason that this was not successful, either financially, ratings wise,
or even creatively. And I think obviously he kind of admitted it. He
would be like, look, this was not what I've wanted. So in
a way he's saying, you know, my aspirations were high, and this
time we didn't get it. I've been a part of a lot of those.
Well the thing is, I mean, like we could even tide us
into something that Mike, you and I talk about on another podcast, the
twilight Zone nineteen eighty five, and we did those bonuses about the twenty nineteen
Twilight Zone. You have Glen Morgan on there, who wrote for the X
Files. He wrote a lot of really great X Files episodes, and then
he goes on and writes some terrible Twilight Zone twenty nineteen episodes. And again
we know he's a good writer, we've seen him write other things. Well,
it's just these weird missteps in this show. It just seems to be
misstep after misstep after misstep. There's never a time where there was a slowing
of momentum with the missteps. It seems that the missteps just continued and never
stopped. They picked up. The same thing happens to who I feel is
you know, probably one of the great this writers of the twenty first century,
which is Max Landis. You know, he constantly is getting undermined by
the studio. Yeah, and sexually sexually assaulting women as well. But hey,
you know what, no big deal, It's okay. On a podcast
I recorded yesterday, I got to called Brian Singer child rapists. So we're
just keeping with the theme of let's just burn it all down, light it
on fire, and watch it burn. Wow. Wow, full circle.
Richard had him not on this episode, by the way, he wants to
still work in Hollywood when we're Chris and Mike, on the other hand,
never going to work in Hollywood. You know it is someone someone has been
calling around impersonating me on podcasts. So maybe this will turn out to be
one of those I will say at the trial and and and maybe helicopter would
land on you. Oh god, all the charges will be dropped mysteriously,
just like in the Kevin Spacey trial exactly. Oh Jesus, oh my god.
Non depressed. I'm more depressed than I was watching What's the frequency called
back? So since this is our last and I know that we're going to
talk again about the scripts and the X Files episode, but I want because
I've already kind of given mine, I want to know what you're kind of
parting post mortem. Final thought, Jerry Springer's style is on Night Stalker two.
First off, it was not live kid, so the test came back.
I'm happy about that, But that's Maury not okay what she want him
and his chicken chechny. So two thousand and five Cold Check is not as
bad as people make it out to be, but it's not good. And
of all the episodes, I still stand by this being the best standalone episode
I would I would be inclined to agree with you. Wow, I feel
lucky that it's the only one I watched. Yeah, and be good to
each other. Now, Okay, maybe a little too little, too on
the nose. Let's get onto the important stuff. When do I get to
come back and talk about Darren mccavin and one of those episodes you get to
come back next month when we're back to the original run of Colchak from nineteen
seventy four, we're gonna be talking about what is it? The Nightly Murders.
So I'm very excited to have you back and it will be great.
So until then, Richard, what's been keeping you busy lately? Season two
of Titans? We are halfway through filming, we're breaking the last handful of
episodes, and we're ready to come back at you. I believe in September
on DCU Universe subscription only in the United States, and it's on Netflix everywhere
else Canada and beyond. So, yeah, Titans is taken up my days.
And let's not forget your show was not canceled after one season. Unfortunately
for one show. Geez, what the hell was I'm going to find out
what happened because I think there is a story we're not hearing. No one
well, come on, I mean, how you premiere a show and then
you announced that you've canceled it before the other episodes of like on what planet
does that help you as a network? The planet of DC, the DC
Universe planet is bizarre, it's weird, it's weird. It got great reviews.
I heard it, it looked great, and then I heard it was
canceled. So there you go, all kind of in the same day.
Yeah, pretty much, anyway, That's what I'm doing. And uh,
yeah, do Patrol doing well? Though? So there you go, and
your your show seems to be doing well. Tigans is doing well, I
mean in a weird way. It might be, you know, one of
the one of the more talked about shows I've ever worked on, considering that,
you know, you can only watch it if you pay for it,
and even then it only shows up like on your miwave oven or something.
God damn this guy. He's got his own shovel and is burying his own
show. What's going on here? I can watch it on my t I
eighty three. Right, It's a great show if you can manage to see
it. But people just seem to be liking it, so yeah, and
uh, and second season. This is no secret. We meet and I
wrote the episode super Boy and Crypto nice. So yeah, I get ready
for some boy dog action Boy. I'm gonna be watching a video about that
later tonight. So I think that's a special Tablets still on the air,
You're talking about an American hero and Chris. What is keeping you busy these
days, sir? Everything and nothing. At the same time, I'm doing
a little podcast called the Culture Cast where you can find me talking about movies
with some friends of mine. Mike's on there. I need a Richard on
there at some point. I think I think it would be beneficial. Maybe
have him watch something good for once. I don't know, so he So
Richard doesn't think that I hate you're coming with us and watching Culture. I'm
dragging a mean one. I think we all agree on that. Man.
Yeah, there is a good Cop Bad Cop five on the show. There
is, and I prefer I don't prefer bad cop. I prefer good cop,
kinky cop. So my my handcuffs have feathers on them. They're like
fur line. But now you can find me on the Culture Cast. Mike
and I also do another podcast with our friend father Malone, where we talk
about twilight Zone nineteen eighty five. That is Dreams for Sale. You can
find that at twilight Zone eighty five dot com. And then I do a
little Tales from the Crypt podcast called Chronicles from the Crypt, and that is
over at Chronicles FTC dot com. Where can people find you, Mike when
you're not here? I do a podcast called The Projection Booth, which you
can find out Projection Booth podcast dot com. And every once in a while
I let Chris on the show, though I always wonder why, And don't
forget guys, just so all your original col checks are aware. Two thousand
and five is done. That works for me. If you look into the
darkness long enough your eyes adjust, can you start to see that there are
evils in the dark. But in scene you learn a terrible truth that you
have not found these evils at all, but rather they have found you.
Try not to scream any stream times and the scream and you stand start music.
But you said, trying to discuss slid comet to you said the suns
of you. You are saying, what's the thing that you can unders to
tell to sad was the shows? You are saying, stop. You can
understand it said, I can understand, you can stand. I can't understand.
I'm gonna understand.