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Three two one, it's half I
road a shoe stop in the field.

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No far now floating around test seed, no sound floating around test see round

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Bristo and Wilthy. Hey, folks, how are you nice to see everybody

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here? Asp asp s A SPA
sixty Charlotte, j Carolina Puerto, Craig

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Roach, How are you guys doing? Nice to see you regulars back here.

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This is the kind of an anniversary
show, twenty fifth show. I've

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made it this far and it's because
of you guys. Thank you so much

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for being here. As always,
we're gonna go with all caps for questions,

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lower caps to chat amongst yourself,
my mo, mom? What else?

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One more? One more live show, and then the show after that

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will be pre recorded, because I'll
do I'll be elsewhere. I'm doing some

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important Bigfoot stuff. I'm happy to
say, let's see what else? Thanks

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to Doug and Alex Hicheck for all
their support. Thanks to you guys for

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all your support. And I guess
you know today we're going to be talking

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about reporting and how to basically increase
the accuracy and scientific validity of your reports

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that you take on expeditions. So
the story today look a show over twenty

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four. Thanks John, I appreciate
that today we're going to be talking about

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conducting debriefing interviews. By debriefing,
I mean when you come back from an

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evening expedition or a daytime expedition for
that well, for that matter, things

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to consider as if you're one of
the people interviewing the people that have had

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the Bigfoot experience, referring primarily to
type A or Class A or Class B

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sightings because those are the ones with
increased potential for trauma, and following these

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procedures will not only increase the accuracy
of the reports that you take, but

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I'll be talking about how to preserve
them and how this whole process can help

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prevent PTSD from developing overnight. Hey
Eric, how are you, sir.

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Nice to see you, buddy.
I appreciate you being here. So,

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as usually, I'm going to start
with the story. I'm feeling that pressure

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to bust through this, and now
I got to realize I've got two hours

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to bust through this, so I've
got to kind of relax and slow my

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pace here. As always, I'm
going to start with a little bit of

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a story, and this is one
situation where I wish I could have everybody

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raise their hands, because although I
know some of my regulars quite well,

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some of them I don't know quite
well. And I really don't have much

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of an appreciation for how many of
you folks out there have actually been out

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on an organized expedition. And when
I wrote this, I wrote this book,

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began Wroting is writing this book my
second year into my expeditions, and

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most of my expeditions have been done
with BFRO Organization, Lorie Wade and Charlie

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Jeez, I can't believe in blocking
on Charlie's last name Charlie Raymond, And

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of course I also go out with
South Southeast Southeastern Sasquatchgating Organization and these although

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in the book they were written primarily
for large group investigations, these will work

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with relatively small group investigations as well. So, given that I'm not sure

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of the baseline of expedition experience,
mostly my story today is going to be

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a personal, personal information about my
experiences in the typical format that you experience

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on a BFRO expedition. And so
usually a BFRO expedition runs a Thursday to

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a Sunday. At least the ones
that I've been on getting up there Thursday

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by noon typically typically that's a three
to four hour drive. So you're getting

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I'm getting up, looking up my
trailer, hitting the road pretty early,

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and I got about three or four
hour drive. Let me see something here,

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Eric, I'm still trying to clearly
connect the search for Bigfoot sidings regardless

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of class and how significantly this connects
to PTSD. Awesome question. So a

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class A sighting, Eric, is
when you got a clear visible sighting of

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Bigfoot. And in a clear visible
sighting of bigfoot, there is no doubt

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that it's Bigfoot. It looks big
like Bigfoot. You can see it clear

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enough and close enough to be pretty
sure or completely sure that it's not a

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guy in a bigfoot outfit or an
ape or a gorilla outfit. These can

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occur anywhere from three hundred yards out
from where you're standing. Two. I

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think you know I've heard some literally
some face to face sightings within a foot

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of each other. But and yes, there are sometimes there are occasions and

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reports where people have been abducted,
been threatened, maybe even caused some physical

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injury with Bigfoot. But when you're
that close to this kind of apex predator.

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It's not unusual or somebody to one
have their fight flight mode kick in,

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and oftentimes, especially on night ops, these can be kind of traumatized

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sightings for more than a few people, and so with trauma, as you

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know, frequently can come PTSD.
A class B sighting is when you don't

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necessarily see the Bigfoot clear. You
might see an outline of bigfoot in the

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night It looks unequivocally bigfoot, but
given the darkness, it's difficult to see.

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Your view might be obstructed by trees
or some other obstacles. Also,

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under class B sidings, you're going
to have experiences like tree knocks, roars,

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whoops, screams, finding footprints,
casting footprints, and these for the

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average researcher, I can think,
I would think would be a little less

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potentially traumatizing. But I've shared two
of my own personal class B sightings and

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they were, you know, they
created a visceral experience. Let's just say

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it that way. The fight flight
kicked in. I wasn't traumatized per se,

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but some fear kicks in, some
anxiety, if you will, And

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you know, depending on the person, their experience and the dramaticness if you

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will, of the siding that can
also create trauma. A Class C siding

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is kind of hearing a secondhand story
from somebody else. Okay, so you

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know, most people who go on
I think, not just speaking myself for

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myself, but most people go on
an expedition of having a Class A sighting

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seeing bigfoot, knowing for oneself that
bigfoot is real because you've seen them close

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enough and distinct enough to have no
doubt that this was a bigfoot that you

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saw. So usually when you head
off, When I head off in the

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morning, of course I've got bigfoot
on the brain, I'm a little wound

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up. I'm a little excited.
I'm thinking about bigfoot, hoping to have

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a bigfoot experience. Typically arrive around
midday on Thursday, say hello to folks,

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meet some new folks, and the
main goal then is to get your

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camp set up and everything prepped.
If you're using equipment, you're going to

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put your batteries on your recorder or
your flear or your camera on charge to

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make sure it's fully charged for the
night out, and just generally kind of

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prepare yourself, prepare your camp,
and chat with folks until about four o'clock.

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That's typically when Laurie has her first
group meeting, and in the group

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meeting, she will kind of sit
in a circle around typically at that point

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a non burning campfire, unless it's
a late fall winter kind of expedition,

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in which case the campfire will be
going to keep you warm, and she

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would lay out some of the grand
ground rules, some of the courtesies.

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One of the things I repeatedly did
did in my first couple sightings are not

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first couple sightings first couple expeditions.
You know, we're wearing headlamps, typically

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red headlamps, and when you stop
and talk to somebody and you look them

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in the face, you're generally going
to be shining your lamp right in their

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face, and that makes things kind
of rough to look at each other.

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And so you want to either turn
off your lamp in those situations or divert

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the direct the light that's directly in
the person's face up or down towards up

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towards the sky, or down through
the ground towards the ground. You know,

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staying on the trail, staying staying
with a group. When you go

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out on night ops, no one
ever wanders off alone. You always kind

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of buddy up, and if somebody
has to leave the little subgroup, they

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don't go back to camp, or
they don't walk by themselves. Somebody goes

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back with them for safety's sake,
and then we introduce ourselves around the circle.

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Typically people talk a little bit about
who they are and the expeditions and

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any experiences that they've had in terms
of expeditions. And you know, one

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of the unique things I think about
the BFRO expeditions I've been on, they

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tend to be rather large. You
could be talking a minimum of twenty twenty

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five people up to fifty people in
an expedition. That's a lot of folks,

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a lot of folks. There's typically
what Lori calls newbies newbies, meaning

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it's a person that is on an
expedition for their first time. And after

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the introductions, there's also then typically
a newbie meeting where some more details are

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shared and discussed to make sure the
newer folks get the importance of certain points

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and the dos and domes. One
of nice things about Louri's expeditions BFRO expeditions,

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as well as Charlie Raymond's BFRO expeditions
and his KBrO Kentucky Bigfoot Research Organization

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expeditions is meals are provided Laurie's expeditions
breakfast and dinner, and everybody's asked to

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bring something to donate to a snack
table, and so all those snacks are

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put out onto the table for you
to munch on as you see fit.

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And mostly that's how people deal with
their lunch using the snack table. And

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this is kind of unusual with Louri
and Charlie as the typical BFRO expeditions,

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the leaders don't go out all out
like these two folks do to provide meals.

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Typically on a BFRO expedition, you're
required to take care of your own

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food. I think both Luri and
Charlie find that it's easier when you provide

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a meal to have a captive audience. To move on to the introduction for

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night ops, after a break,
people are already there. People are already

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focused after a meal, and so
after after dinner, Lori and her team

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or Charlie and his team will have
gone out either a week before or a

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month before the expedition and scouted out
the area. They use a big map

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of the forest or the park that
we're going to be squatching in and they

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check it out ahead of time.
One expedition in Tennessee, there were lots

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of creeks or creeks as some people
call them, and so on the one

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location we had a we had to
get across three maybe four creeks, two

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that you couldn't hop across. And
so for example, for people's safety,

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ahead of time, Laurie had strung
ropes from tree to tree across these creeks

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and use some pallettes, some wooden
pallets to construct some bridges so you could

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walk across the creek without having to
get your shoes wet. Especially in late

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fall winter expeditions, getting your feet
wet out at night can eventually get pretty

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uncomfortable. So you know, these
folks really go the extra mile to make

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sure everybody's safe, make sure everybody's
dry, you know, everything's in place

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ahead of time. And also in
that week there they're typically scouting for tracks,

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looking for big foot signs so that
they can can find a more or

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less hot spot within the hotspots within
the area. You can imagine if there's

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a group of fifty people sending people
out into the woods, if it's not

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organized well, can be lead to
quite the calamity. And so one of

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the things I admire about what both
these folks do is that group of fifty

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is typically divided up into groups of
four to six i'd say at averages five,

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and so you go out in many
groups, and each leader of the

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mini group is typically risen to the
status of an investigator. In BFRO,

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you've got two static well, I
guess three statuses nubie researcher and ve instigator,

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and an investigator is kind of the
top of the heap. Somebody who

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has been on a lot of expeditions, have some experience with bigfoot. They're

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going to be take the lead in
the smaller groups in guiding people to these

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areas, and so all that is
coordinated after dinner. And when after that's

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coordinated, you're you're assigned to a
particular group with a particular investigator, and

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that investigator will will then gather his
sub his or her subgroup up and make

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some plans about when they're gonna head
out in their cars to get to their

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spot, and you know, make
sure everybody knows what to bring. You

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know, typically you're going to bring
I carry a night sack, and most

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people do typically you're going to bring
a chair. I've got a little mini

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chair that I can sit down in
that goes into my pack. You're gonna

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want to bring some water, because
it seems, interestingly enough, when it's

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rainy, you're walking around in a
gortex shell or a rubber shell, and

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I find I sweat more on days
when it's rainy and chilli than on moderate

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kind of days. So bringing a
change of clothes, or being able to

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strip some of your layers off or
add some layers, or the fight flight

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experiences. Interestingly enough, Lorie does
include a change of underwear in her nightpack

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list because it happens times that when
people's fight flight response kick in, they

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may poop or pee themselves, and
you don't want to walk around the rest

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of the evening carrying that load,
be it liquid or solid. Binoculars,

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night vision cameras. I'm kind of
anti tech. I don't like those things,

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but people bring their own. I
carry one piece of equipment besides extra

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batteries and a chair, and that
is a bard owl call. It's believed

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that sasquatch will imitate bard owls to
communicate with each other, and so I

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carry a bard owl call with me, and I am not very skillful with

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it, but it is. I've
been shocked about how often I've let out

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a bart owl call and start getting
conversations going with other barn owls or goodness

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only knows if it's a bigfoot or
not. I keep hearing that when you

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spend enough time out in the woods, you can kind of tell if you

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hear bart bard owl call if it's
kind of off, and if it's kind

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of off or unusual in some way, that increases the likelihood that it could

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be bigfoot. So you pack your
night pack, you meet as at a

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designated time. Typically you start heading
out at about nine o'clock. So you're

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heading out in the dark, and
you go to the closest area to your

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spot where you can park a vehicle
safely and without getting stuck. And then

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there's any way from a couple feet
walk if you're going to be squatching out

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of site close to the road,
up to a three mile hike to get

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to the location where you're going to
do your primary investigations for the evening.

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And you know Lourie and Lourie and
Charlie they take pretty much all comers,

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and so you've got people of various
fitness levels. They take people with disabilities

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who can't walk hardly at all,
and they take people on the other end

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of the continuum that could hike ten
miles in a day if they need it

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to, And so that kind of
goes into considering what group you're going to

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be a part in, and the
investigators will know the distance or have a

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good estimate of the distance you're going
to need to hike to go to your

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main squatching location. They also have
backup spots as well if that doesn't bear

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out or if that doesn't work out, Depending on the philosophy of the investigator,

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you might hike to your location stealthy
and quiet. Some believe just acting

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natural, so in a normal voice, conversing with each other, not trying

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to be stealthy at all. And
there are some people, some investigators,

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that find that the louder you are, the more rocous you are, the

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more likely you are to catch the
attention of the bigfoot. So you kind

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of follow that lead. You kind
of follow the lead of the primary investigator

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during that walk to the specific location
in which you're going to be doing your

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investigation. Sometimes people will bring a
fire long and once you get to your

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destination, you'll start a fire.
Other times the leader will choose not to

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start a fire, and you kind
of stay in this one general vicinity.

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Most people mostly investigators, And of
course the fires happen the colder it is,

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generally, the more likely it is
you're going to have a little fire

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at your investigation area. But I
think most investigators after the hike there generally

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start with fifteen to twenty to thirty
minutes of quiet, just to see if

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your presence has captured the attention or
drawn the attention of any bigfoots that are

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coming to investigate you. Basically,
and this was a fascinating concept to me

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when I started doing this. You're
making yourself the bigfoot bait. We try

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to give them the high ground,
so a real squatchy area, so to

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speak, an area that looks like
it has high bigfoot potential for activity.

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Might include a ridge line with a
stream running at the base, and you're

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sitting at the bottom of that ridge
line, giving the sasquatch the high ground

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and their ability to look at you
and monitor you and then decide whether they're

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going to interact or not with you, and in what way they're going to

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interact, so you'll hang out at
that spot depending on whether you get any

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activity hour and a half, two, three, four hours. If you're

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getting lots of activity, you may
never move on to the secondary or backup

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spot for the night. If you're
not getting a lot of activity. Again,

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the investigators typically do have at least
one, sometimes two backup spots to

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check out. But when you're dealing
with so many people in an investigation,

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one of the important things to do
is make sure you don't step on each

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other when you're out at night.
And by step on each other, I

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mean that you know with fifty people
that those ten groups that are out there,

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smaller groups of five for example,
they're not real close to each other.

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And in the groups, one person
is designated as the recorder and so,

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and we carry walkie talkies with each
other. One person, if not

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more, has a walkie talkie in
each group so you can communicate with other

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groups. The recorder's job it's literally
a little notepad that you can fit into

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your pocket and a pencil. And
if after half hour twenty minutes to half

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hour you don't get any activity,
depending on the group leader's preference, you

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may begin to do some provocations and
exactly what provocation you do and how frequently

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you do it again is kind of
guide it by the investigator in the group,

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and those provocations can range from a
loud imitating yell of a bigfoot to

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a whoop, to a tree knock
to stone claques, any kind of auditory

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provocation in the hopes of getting the
bigfoots attention. But at the time that

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you decide to do a provocation,
you will first go on the radio and

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contact the other groups and let them
know that you're going to do a whoop

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in two minutes. And the importance
of this again comes back to not wanting

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to step on each other. If
you're going to do a provocation, you

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want the other groups to know you're
going to do a provocation and exactly when

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you're going to do a provocation,
because you don't want that to be misinterpreted

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as a bigfoot making that sound.
You want everybody in the expedition to understand

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that that's a human making that sound
rather than a bigfoot, because you don't

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want to mistake them. And so
the recording individual will write down the exact

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time that the provocation is made and
exactly what the provocation was or is,

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and then if there's any response,
it's their job to also record the response

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that comes as a result of the
provocation. And so I think that's excellent

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and making those kind of recordings and
ensuring that everybody knows what everybody else is

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doing, and if we're getting a
response, we're not mistaking a provocation by

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another group as a response. And
I think that's good science for what it's

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worth. As most of you guys
know, I'm here promoting bringing more science

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into investigations, and that's that documentation
is very important. So depending on the

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activity, you may stay in that
location, you may move on. Typically

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when you move on, you're hiking
back to your vehicle, you're more focused

264
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on getting from point A to point
B. You're more goal directed. And

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then you either move going to your
next next spot, or if you've been

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out and getting lots of activity in
that one spot, you know you may

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be heading directly back to camp.
Typically when you head back to camp,

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you may be the first group back, but you may not be, and

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so all the other groups or a
single group or nobody will be waiting there

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for you to return to camp.
And typically if you're in people start talking

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about what they experienced in camp,
and everybody kind of hangs out around the

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fire until all the groups are in
for that evening, and then you know,

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spontaneous conversations erupt and people start talking
about their experience. Eventually you go

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to bed. The next morning,
you wake up again on Laurie and I

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think in Charlie's expeditions they serve breakfast, so you have breakfast, and then

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after breakfast, you have what's known
as a debriefing. And by debriefing,

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what I mean is all the groups
get together and one by one, the

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groups stand up and they report their
experiences. We did this in such and

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such a time, and we got
a tree knock back or we heard a

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whoop within three minutes after our tree
knock and that generates discussion around you know,

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if other people heard at what other
people heard, and you're basically comparing

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notes with other groups. And again
I think that that's awesome and that's a

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good thing, and that goes on
in that pattern. Thursday and the Friday,

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Friday into Saturday, Saturday into Sunday, Sunday, not a big breakfast,

285
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kind of just snacking. Do the
final group debriefing and pack up and

286
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had on your way. Very fun. You meet lots of good people.

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I've never personally had a Class A, but I've had many Class bs,

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two of which, as I said
earlier, were quite unnerving. And you

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know, you're never guaranteed a Class
A or even a Class B encounter.

290
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But I can't recall an expedition that
I've been on. I've been on around

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twenty between Charlie and Laurie. I
can't recall an expedition where we didn't at

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least have some Class B evidence come
in on occasion Class A evidence. People

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experience Class A signings. The last
expedition I went out earlier in the year

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with LORII, the group that she
was in, most everybody experienced a Class

295
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:43,360
A signing. So there's no guarantee, but generally you're going to have some

296
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kind of bigfoot experience, at least
based on my experience. So that also

297
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sounds well and good, and it
is good. But what I want to

298
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talk about today is I want to
talk about how to hold on to that

299
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:15,079
information of the debriefings or of the
interviews so that you can maintain the integrity

300
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of the verbal evidence or written evidence
that's there and basically, in this episode,

301
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I'm going to be kind of outlining
some suggested procedures to maintain the integrity

302
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of that evidence, to conduct interviews
in a specific way, and in doing

303
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so, also minimize the chance of
developing PTSD. Any questions from anyone before

304
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we move on to the signe presentation. One of the nice things I'm hoping

305
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:07,960
with my extended interview or extended format
here now we've got up to two hours

306
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rather than the one hour, is
give people more time to ask questions.

307
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There are no dumb questions. I'm
not gonna scoff at your question. I

308
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,039
may not even be able to answer
your question. I'm you know, my

309
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:30,880
expertise lies in applying psychological science to
this process. I am not an expert

310
00:38:31,079 --> 00:38:38,239
in bigfoot, no doubt. In
my audience there are people who have more

311
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:45,559
expertise in bigfoot, But like many
researchers, I'm of the opinion that there

312
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:52,199
is no such thing as an expert
in the field. Honestly, you know,

313
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,920
when I think of experts in the
field, people's names like Jeff Meldrum

314
00:38:59,079 --> 00:39:06,559
come up, Amy Boo comes up, Matt Moneymaker comes up, Bobo Fay

315
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:12,320
Cliff Barrackman. I mean, these
are names that most of you folks are

316
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:21,360
going to are going to recognize if
you've been interested in bigfoot for a while.

317
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:28,119
And John John A makes a good
point the only dumb questions are the

318
00:39:28,159 --> 00:39:32,440
ones that are unasked, and that
I do truly believe that you can't learn

319
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if you don't ask questions. Soon, let's see here, where are we

320
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:58,679
going to go from here? That's
not it, that's not it. There

321
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:07,280
we go. So just a little
graphic. We're talking interviews, debriefings,

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and again let me emphasize just in
case of what I'm told that not everybody

323
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:20,719
would appreciate what the word debriefing might
even mean. And debriefing is just asking

324
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:29,280
questions and taking in information from individuals
that had a Bigfoot experience, formally documenting

325
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:34,159
that information for the future and for
any research that might come from that.

326
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And so the title of my presentation
tonight is a Sasquatch Reporting Accuracy Tutorial Procedures

327
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to ensure and preserve accuracy aile Minimizing
Potential PTSD. So I guess the first

328
00:40:54,599 --> 00:41:00,719
obvious question is why the heck are
you going to even bother to think about

329
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:08,599
that? Why do you want to
be concerned about the reports people are just

330
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:15,920
reporting their experience. Well, I
think one of the good things and good

331
00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:21,039
policies, if you will, that
BFRO has is that when you have a

332
00:41:21,119 --> 00:41:28,000
bigfoot experience or a potential bigfoot experience, your first thing you do after that

333
00:41:28,199 --> 00:41:34,719
experience is complete is you don't move
to your next spot. You stay in

334
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:42,760
that location and you try and debunk
the experience that you just had. What

335
00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:46,599
just happened. Could that have been
a landslide rather than a bluff jar?

336
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:54,639
Could that have been coyotes howling rather
than a bigfoot howling? And so of

337
00:41:54,760 --> 00:42:01,480
course when you're doing that debunking,
you're conversing within your upgroup, and in

338
00:42:01,639 --> 00:42:06,480
doing that conversing, on one hand, the best time to talk about that

339
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:12,639
is right after it happened, But
on the other hand, that's also potentially

340
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,079
one of the worst times to do
it because if it was kind of a

341
00:42:16,159 --> 00:42:24,039
butt puckering experience, people's arousal levels
are going to be up. They may

342
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be experiencing trauma, and both increased
arousal pass normal and trauma can distort people's

343
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:46,239
perception of what they just experienced.
On one of my most exciting class be

344
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encounters. We had a tree fall. It sounded like right on top of

345
00:42:53,039 --> 00:42:59,719
us, but the tree never made
it down to the fire road we were

346
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:07,840
on. And then you heard what
sounded like other stones and logs rolling down

347
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:13,760
a steep hill and hitting either other
stones or logs and becoming airborne. So

348
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,679
suddenly there would be silence, and
then you'd hear it crashing in the leaves

349
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:23,760
and rolling some more, getting airborne, crashing and rolling, and we were

350
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:30,280
convinced that what was happening was a
landslide. I don't think any of us

351
00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:37,760
initially thought about a bigfoot. Well. When the tree fell, it was

352
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:44,880
like an explosion going off, and
you know that. I think most people's

353
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,719
minds went to bigfoot immediately. But
it had been raining hard the night before,

354
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:59,239
and so it was possible that the
tree could have just fell fell in

355
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:05,639
the woods because of the drainage,
could have just been at the right time

356
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:12,199
for that tree to fall. The
force with which it fell and the explosive

357
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:17,039
nature with which it fell kind of
suggested the possibility of the big Foot.

358
00:44:17,199 --> 00:44:25,920
But you couldn't really rule out mother
Nature coming into play there. So we

359
00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:31,360
stood, we talked about what we
experienced, and we stayed there for thirty

360
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:37,920
forty five minutes trying to figure out
what happened. The only thing that happened

361
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:45,760
to us that at that time was
a dust cloud of loam. If you've

362
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:52,559
ever smelled loam, it's very rich, kind of a pungent soil. A

363
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:58,440
dust cloud of loam came down on
top of us, and loam has a

364
00:44:58,559 --> 00:45:07,639
distinct kind of decaying smell about it. But we were all shocked, of

365
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:14,000
course, I mean, we were
expecting rocks and trees to be coming down

366
00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:17,280
at us, literally rolling down off
the mountain onto the road in front of

367
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:28,199
us. But that never happened.
So if that was scary enough for anyone

368
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:35,039
in the group, that could have
set up a trauma cycle or for sure

369
00:45:35,639 --> 00:45:39,400
whether I don't think anyone in our
group was traumatized by that by the time

370
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:45,440
it was all said and done,
But we all reacted with increased arousal and

371
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:54,039
increased stress. And in the instant
that you're reacting that way, you're primed

372
00:45:54,599 --> 00:46:04,840
for hypnosis. You're primed for something
called called confabulation, your prime for developing

373
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:12,199
memory gaps. And what confabulation is
is if you have a memory grap to

374
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:21,159
a traumatic or unnerving event and there's
a blank spot in your memory. Our

375
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:28,519
brains themselves without us having to think
to do it. We like to maintain

376
00:46:28,599 --> 00:46:34,760
a state of equilibrium, an evenness
about us. When you can't figure out

377
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:40,280
what happens, that's called dissonance.
There's an inconsistency between your experience and what

378
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:52,000
you understand happening, and your brain
will take can can take the wheel on

379
00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:59,199
its own and fill in those blank
spots to reduce that dissonance, whether what

380
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:07,960
your brain fills in is inaccurate memory
or not. Also, over time,

381
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:19,960
the accuracy of a memory will fade. Memories can distort with time. Confabulation

382
00:47:20,159 --> 00:47:25,599
and memory distort. The impact then
of the data accuracy and any research that

383
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:35,480
you do based on that data.
I kind of call this the fishermen phenomena.

384
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:39,239
I don't know how many people fish
out there, but if you do

385
00:47:39,519 --> 00:47:44,519
fish, and you've been fishing for
a while, you know, by the

386
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:51,960
end of the night fishing a fish
that was this big as time passes can

387
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:58,280
grow bigger and bigger and bigger and
bigger, and that's not well. Fishermen

388
00:47:58,519 --> 00:48:05,320
are good liars, but that's not
necessarily even lying in that situation. Sometimes

389
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:13,079
that can just be you know,
a typical response because even in fishing,

390
00:48:13,199 --> 00:48:17,360
if you've got a big fish on
your arousal gets up, it can accelerate

391
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:24,519
your heart rate, the adrenaline starts
flowing, and you know, it's not

392
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:35,920
uncommon for people to overestimate the size
of their fish. And then again with

393
00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:42,159
trauma or increased arousal, that kind
of sets the stage for PTSD to develop

394
00:48:43,199 --> 00:48:49,000
from a Class A or a class
BE encounter. And the procedures we're about

395
00:48:49,119 --> 00:49:00,320
to talk about will help minimize the
potential development of PTSD from these events and

396
00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:08,840
questions so far, So why bother? Is all those particular reasons? Again,

397
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:15,840
what we're striving for in all research, be it experiential research or scientific

398
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:27,559
research. We're striving for our data
to be accurate and remain accurate. So

399
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:37,679
here we get into some suggestions to
ensure and preserve report accuracy. And this

400
00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:44,559
could kind of build on some other
recent shows about photographs and films and do

401
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:52,760
they have any scientific value? And
this would be in the timeframe of the

402
00:49:52,960 --> 00:50:00,840
evening of a expedition. This would
be when people are a diving back in

403
00:50:00,039 --> 00:50:07,239
camp and you discover that either certain
members in that group, subgroup, or

404
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:14,159
all the members in that group experienced
a Class A or a Class B encounter.

405
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:25,119
No lie in land between the lakes. I was standing shoulder to shoulder

406
00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:35,239
with Larry Stillwell, and we had
designated, you know, I'm going to

407
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:40,639
scan to the left looking for any
any sights or sounds a bigfoot, and

408
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:46,920
he was going to scan to the
right. He saw a dark, large,

409
00:50:47,119 --> 00:50:59,800
dark figure cross the road, probably
twenty thirty feet from us, unmistakable,

410
00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:07,760
its size, the speed at which
it occurred, the gate that was

411
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:13,360
evidenced in this walking across the road. And I never got to see the

412
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:21,079
thing because I was looking to the
left. So when you start taking a

413
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:29,280
report of people's experiences, number one, you want to film and or record

414
00:51:29,599 --> 00:51:35,559
that report, and you want to
do that in a private place away from

415
00:51:35,639 --> 00:51:40,239
the rest of the crowd. Right
when people come back is when a person's

416
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:46,920
memory is potentially the most accurate,
but at the same time it's also the

417
00:51:47,039 --> 00:51:53,679
most vulnerable to you. Confabulation again, your brain making things up for you

418
00:51:53,880 --> 00:52:01,039
without you having to think about it
or from talking about it the experience right

419
00:52:01,159 --> 00:52:07,519
after it happened. So it's kind
of a double edged sword. It could

420
00:52:07,559 --> 00:52:13,360
be your memories could be potentially the
most accurate, but they could also potentially

421
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:22,000
be the most skewed or inaccurate.
And so I recommend that those interviews,

422
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:29,639
those stories are done with one or
two members of the group have who have

423
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:45,280
been specifically trained in dealing with interviewing
people about their experience. And getting back

424
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:50,400
to film or camera, you know, this is a time where, for

425
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:53,960
sure, you want to have a
good video camera, but if you really

426
00:52:54,039 --> 00:53:01,000
want to juice things up, you
could have a regular camera requiring lighting,

427
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:07,840
but you almost might have like a
flear or a thermal camera, because sometimes

428
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:14,800
as people tell these stories, they
begin to relive them. And honestly,

429
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,840
I don't know, but with temperature
sensitive cameras, you might be able to

430
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:27,639
record the changes in the person's body
temperature. When we're under stress, our

431
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:32,400
blood flows away from our hands and
our feet and our head to the core

432
00:53:32,519 --> 00:53:37,760
of our body as we and so
that's going to be the warmest part on

433
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:44,719
the human being's body. As we
begin to relax and de stress from that

434
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:52,440
situation, our veins in our brain
and in our hands and arms are going

435
00:53:52,519 --> 00:53:58,599
to begin to expand and allow more
blood to flow back to those areas.

436
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,639
That's just an idea. You may
be able to pick up with that on

437
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,960
a thermal camera, you may not. I think it's a worthwhile thing to

438
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:13,480
investigate, and that could be a
little study in and of itself. So

439
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:22,079
what other suggestions besides filming on the
way back to base camp? And this

440
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:28,119
is a tough one. You want
to minimize further discussion on the way,

441
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:34,519
whether it's when you're walking back to
the car, or you're driving, or

442
00:54:34,599 --> 00:54:37,800
you're arriving at base camp. And
I'm not talking, don't talk at all,

443
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:45,880
sit in silence, but further discussion
about the event and why is this?

444
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:51,480
I'm sure at some point in most
of our lives, maybe in grade

445
00:54:51,519 --> 00:54:58,440
school or junior high school, you
played the old whisper down the alley game

446
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:05,840
where somebody whispers something into the very
first person in line, and then they've

447
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,000
got to pass it on to the
next person behind them, and then that

448
00:55:09,199 --> 00:55:14,280
person passes it on to the next
person behind him, and it goes so

449
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,840
on and so forth, from one
person in the front all the way to

450
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:23,079
the person in the back. And
if you recall doing this exercise, what

451
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:31,000
happens, more often than not,
the message that was heard by the first

452
00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:40,199
person and the message that was heard
by the last person are quite dissimilar as

453
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:46,119
they got passed from one person to
the next. And so just the process

454
00:55:46,559 --> 00:55:55,280
of getting in conversation about the event, just something simple as that can begin

455
00:55:55,480 --> 00:56:04,760
to distort the information and the accuracy
of the report. I already talked about

456
00:56:05,519 --> 00:56:13,599
when you're returning walking back to your
car after an event, again, at

457
00:56:13,639 --> 00:56:17,400
that point we're focused and we're goal
directed. And if those are you who

458
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:25,159
are around when I did my show
and hypnosis, the first step in hypnosis

459
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:35,960
is to narrow your focus of attention, then relaxation, and during those times

460
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:43,760
you're going to be more vulnerable to
suggestion hypnotic influences. You don't have to

461
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,880
go into a deep trance with a
watch waving in front of your face to

462
00:56:49,039 --> 00:56:54,320
have a hypnotic suggestion be given or
taken by your unconscious mind. And so

463
00:56:54,559 --> 00:57:00,199
when we're walking back to the car
after an event, in fact act,

464
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:07,679
we're taking one of the first steps
narrowing your focus of attention. And depending

465
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:12,000
on how long you've been out,
you may be physically tired at that point

466
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,760
and your body's starting to unwind and
relax from the intensity of the encounter,

467
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:31,920
so you're you're more open to the
possibility of suggestion then any questions. So

468
00:57:32,039 --> 00:57:39,400
there are a couple other reasons why
you want to minimize discussion. I've used

469
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:46,599
the fancy scientific phrase of regression to
the mean, but generally what happens is,

470
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:53,719
in a group of four, you
may have four different experiences of what

471
00:57:54,159 --> 00:58:00,599
people perceived in that event, and
the more we talk talk about that amongst

472
00:58:00,679 --> 00:58:08,599
ourselves, the stories then begin to
confirm and narrow down, so that we

473
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:17,079
begin to lose diverging details of the
story as we're trying to make sense of

474
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:22,639
that event that just happened. And
that's called regression to the mean and statistics.

475
00:58:23,239 --> 00:58:30,320
Basically, it's a form of bias
whereby we begin to lose details and

476
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:39,159
begin to confirm conform excuse me to
kind of a group process those diverging details.

477
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:45,199
In that kind of situation, the
observations, the information, they lose

478
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:52,079
their value and strength of importance through
that kind of confirmation bias, hypnotic influences,

479
00:58:52,719 --> 00:59:00,280
social suggestion, conformity, or confabulation. And while that's going on,

480
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:08,880
the accuracy of your data you're losing
it. It's getting downgraded because the stories

481
00:59:09,079 --> 00:59:17,400
are gradually going to become less diverse
and more similar in nature. Craig Roach

482
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:24,079
and I at this last expedition with
BFRO we were just talking about this last

483
00:59:24,159 --> 00:59:35,480
week. We had Craig's car backed
up in a little cul de sac or

484
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:40,559
a little turnaround area, and we
heard a tree push. We were both

485
00:59:40,639 --> 00:59:45,280
sitting there with our windows rolled down. He was in the driver's seat.

486
00:59:45,119 --> 00:59:52,400
I was in the passenger seat,
and a tree pushed down or fall down,

487
00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:58,559
or whatever you want to call it
happened, and we, you know,

488
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,840
did you hear that? Yeah?
What did you hear? Just between

489
01:00:02,159 --> 01:00:10,599
him and I, we had two
different stories of what we just heard.

490
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:17,559
Was it one tree crashing in into
another into another? Did a total of

491
01:00:17,719 --> 01:00:23,559
three trees fall? Was it more
than three? Was it less than three?

492
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:32,239
Even though we were sitting side by
side when we experienced that, And

493
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:39,199
as it turns out, when we
went back to the debriefing the next day,

494
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:50,760
another group heard that, but they
thought they heard gunshots. So this

495
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,440
makes me want to revisit this point
of the difference between sensation and perception.

496
01:00:58,199 --> 01:01:01,800
When you reach down and pick up
a hot log that you can't see is

497
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:07,079
hot because there's no fire blazing on
it, and you pick it up thinking

498
01:01:07,199 --> 01:01:15,159
it's cool, but it's still hot
from the fire. That pain signal,

499
01:01:15,239 --> 01:01:23,320
that electrochemical single signal when your hand
touches that hot wood, travels up your

500
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:30,199
arm, through your arm, into
your spinal cord, up around your neck,

501
01:01:30,639 --> 01:01:40,360
and eventually registers on your brain.
The millisecond that before that registers on

502
01:01:40,559 --> 01:01:49,920
your brain, that's called sensation,
The millisecond that that registers on your brain

503
01:01:50,679 --> 01:01:59,760
that's called perception. Perception is not
a pure experience of sensation, because how

504
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:10,440
we perceive things is determined by our
life experience. You can we we had

505
01:02:10,719 --> 01:02:16,360
a little bit of a sadistic Scout
leader when I was a kid growing up,

506
01:02:17,599 --> 01:02:22,760
and we would do this torture scenario
where we would have somebody take their

507
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:29,920
shirt off and put their fire to
the back, to the back, their

508
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:35,639
back to the fire, and let
their back get hotter and hotter. That

509
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:43,679
could feel the flames on their back, but behind them we would have a

510
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:52,039
cooler of ice and ice water,
and as the person got more and more

511
01:02:52,159 --> 01:02:58,800
freaked about the possibility of you know, their back burning up, somebody would

512
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:08,039
take a big couple glasses of that
water and pour them on the back of

513
01:03:08,199 --> 01:03:17,000
that person's back that ice water,
and that person experienced that as if they

514
01:03:17,039 --> 01:03:22,320
were being branded or it was hot, they were being touched by the fire.

515
01:03:23,639 --> 01:03:34,000
So a purely cold sensation can be
misinterpreted as a hot sensation. And

516
01:03:34,599 --> 01:03:40,360
that practice finally stopped when one person
that that was done to began to develop

517
01:03:40,519 --> 01:03:47,960
welts on their stomach or on their
back as if they had been touched by

518
01:03:49,039 --> 01:03:58,559
a hot iron. Their body actually
interpreted that as fire and had that histamine

519
01:03:58,639 --> 01:04:04,159
reaction, and the person's skin got
red and bubbled up a little bit.

520
01:04:06,599 --> 01:04:15,840
So the point being, as we're
talking, we're going from the pure sensation

521
01:04:15,239 --> 01:04:21,079
of what we experienced, and we
begin talking about what we perceived, and

522
01:04:21,199 --> 01:04:30,000
everybody know, two people perceive the
same thing in the same way, and

523
01:04:30,159 --> 01:04:35,840
so again there's another potential for the
accuracy of your data to get downgraded.

524
01:04:39,559 --> 01:04:45,199
Then when you get back to the
camp, that downgraded information gets shared by

525
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:53,079
the group, and that then further
contaminates the accuracy of your experience. Is

526
01:04:53,159 --> 01:05:06,800
this makeing sense, guys? If
the information doesn't get downgraded or fall by

527
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:15,800
the wayside, oftentimes it'll get strengthened. The people are so sure that it

528
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:25,159
actually happened this way, that they
begin to develop what I call righteousness bias.

529
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,639
I'm right, you know, Craig
might have heard it this way,

530
01:05:29,119 --> 01:05:32,880
but I'm so certain about how I
heard it that it had to happen this

531
01:05:33,079 --> 01:05:42,599
way. We get cocky and increasingly
certain are more certain about what it was

532
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:49,159
that happened. And again, when
you develop that righteousness bias, I'm right

533
01:05:51,760 --> 01:06:00,559
again, that's contaminating the accuracy of
your final data set. Another thing that

534
01:06:00,719 --> 01:06:06,599
can happen, especially in larger groups, is the strength of a person's personality.

535
01:06:09,679 --> 01:06:16,920
Just through the sheer force of their
personality or through their popularity and their

536
01:06:17,039 --> 01:06:25,360
group, their version of the story
becomes the final version, whether that's most

537
01:06:25,519 --> 01:06:33,079
accurate or not. Thank you,
ASPA sixty. I'm going to put that

538
01:06:33,199 --> 01:06:36,400
up if you don't mind, certainly, doctor John, very helpful. We

539
01:06:36,519 --> 01:06:45,039
can all be delusional at times,
based and biased on our own reality tunnels.

540
01:06:45,119 --> 01:06:50,079
Yeah, we perceive things through our
own glasses, and not everybody's wearing

541
01:06:50,199 --> 01:06:57,840
the same glasses to filter our realities
through, even when we're talking consensus reality.

542
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:04,559
Awesome point, ASPA sixty. Thank
you, So here we go.

543
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:15,519
Here we go with now more suggestions
of procedures to employ in your debriefing to

544
01:07:15,719 --> 01:07:23,960
increase the accuracy. Keep in mind
we're already video and or audio taping the

545
01:07:24,159 --> 01:07:30,920
interview. If you're in a group
with multiple people who go out together,

546
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:44,199
you want to develop some standardized debriefing
interviews so that if two people of the

547
01:07:44,599 --> 01:07:51,480
four in the group had an experience, one debriefer or interviewer takes one person

548
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:58,800
to one location, another interviewer takes
the other to the other location, and

549
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:08,360
they simultaneous hear the story and interview
the story. Okay, but if one

550
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:15,760
of the interviewers is asking questions in
a different way in a different order compared

551
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:21,840
to the other person who's interviewing the
other person, there's no standard criteria for

552
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:30,359
the flow of the interview, and
that in and of itself can potentially distort

553
01:08:30,079 --> 01:08:38,439
the accuracy of your interview. So
if you develop a standardized debriefing interview that

554
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:49,119
each interview follows, that interview is
going to become standardized and increasing reliable in

555
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:58,399
that process, and your data therefore
will become more reliable. And you want

556
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:04,560
not only validity in your reports.
Validity is when are you interviewing about what

557
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:13,439
you think you're interviewing. Are you
interviewing about a bigfoot experience? Reliability is

558
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:21,119
are you repeatedly interviewing about the same
thing from one time to another to another.

559
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:29,119
So by having a standardized interview in
place that all the people doing the

560
01:09:29,279 --> 01:09:34,800
interview or debriefing us, you increase
the reliability of the interview, and therefore

561
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:44,760
you increase the reliability of the reporting
that you get. You want to do

562
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:51,720
the debriefing as soon as possible.
Don't delay doing that interview when somebody walks

563
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:58,279
into camp. Now, this can
be a real practical challenge, honestly,

564
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:03,119
and I appreciate that, because you
know people are coming into camp anywhere from

565
01:10:03,199 --> 01:10:08,640
two o'clock to four o'clock in the
morning, and a lot of people are

566
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:15,119
just ready for bed. But you
want to do it before people go to

567
01:10:15,239 --> 01:10:20,880
bed that night, if at all
possible. One, it increases the accuracy

568
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:28,520
of the story as people recall it. Number Two, it minimizes the distortion

569
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:34,880
by further uncontrolled conversations. People just
staying around waiting for the next group to

570
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:41,840
come in, and they start talking
about the conversations between each other, and

571
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:50,319
other groups start. Other group members
start asking questions that can contaminate that data,

572
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:59,960
which is one of the reasons why
science doesn't consider anecdotal data strong science.

573
01:11:02,199 --> 01:11:10,239
And more importantly, from my perspective
as a psychologist, if you let

574
01:11:10,319 --> 01:11:15,760
people go to sleep and they've had
a traumatic experience, they may have traumatic

575
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:21,720
dreams, and those dreams may be
an accurate recollection of the trauma that they

576
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:29,760
experienced, or if they develop memory
blanks or blocks, again that process of

577
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:35,319
confabulation, the brain making up its
own story and filling in that blank so

578
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:44,920
that dissonance or discomfort is decreased,
and that increases the likelihood then of PTSDs

579
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:54,039
setting in. You know, if
you study psychology and you study being a

580
01:11:54,239 --> 01:11:59,720
therapist, as I have, the
old adage, once you get bucked off

581
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,319
a whole, it's important to get
right back on that horse as soon as

582
01:12:02,399 --> 01:12:11,479
you can, and that's kind of
the foundation for anxiety counseling and anxiety therapy.

583
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:17,880
The longer you delay facing that traumatic
event, the deeper that anxiety and

584
01:12:18,039 --> 01:12:27,359
that drama digs its claws into you, and the more difficult it becomes to

585
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:34,880
deal with that anxiety, and the
more resilient anxiety that you experience. One

586
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:43,119
of my good friends, Legacy nicely. Dog training kind of came in late,

587
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:50,000
and yet, Jessica, the part
of what you missed is you want

588
01:12:50,039 --> 01:12:59,439
to do video and audio recording of
people's stories as they come in, because

589
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:09,560
that creates a record of the data
that you're collecting, and it's kind of

590
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:15,760
an immutable record because it's recorded.
And I didn't mention this, but if

591
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:21,960
you get that record it later on
when somebody talks about it, if you

592
01:13:23,119 --> 01:13:30,439
record that talk, then you can
look and monitor and compare the two stories

593
01:13:31,119 --> 01:13:36,880
to see if that fish or that
bigfoot is getting bigger or smaller, or

594
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:43,079
whether other details about the story are
dropping out as the story is retold.

595
01:13:45,039 --> 01:13:53,640
Hope that makes sense to you.
Again, I've already talked about videotaping or

596
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:59,920
audiotaping all tellings or interviews of the
story, and I just kind of describe

597
01:14:00,079 --> 01:14:10,760
what we're talking about. So,
as I've said before, Jessica knows a

598
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:17,840
whole lot about behavioralism. She's a
world class dog trainer and uses behavioral techniques

599
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:27,439
in training dogs. And I always
get confused about what the clever hands effect

600
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:33,199
is because we don't use that phrase
in psychology. But you're setting up a

601
01:14:33,279 --> 01:14:45,239
standardized set of questions, and that
is in an attempt to minimize distortion of

602
01:14:45,039 --> 01:14:54,399
the information you get simply as a
result of variability and how the questions are

603
01:14:54,439 --> 01:15:00,079
asked or the order that they're asked. If that answers your question, So

604
01:15:00,159 --> 01:15:08,760
I think it's the answer is yes. Every time we talk about the clever

605
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:14,279
hands effect, I can remember what
it was, and you're clarifying that it's

606
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:19,079
unknown cues that lead the person to
answer what we want. Yeah, your

607
01:15:19,199 --> 01:15:26,920
questions become kind of a demand effect, or the way you ask your questions

608
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:34,199
demands or suggests a certain answer to
the person to the person answering the question.

609
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:38,159
Eric, if you don't mind,
I'm going to put your comment up.

610
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:44,479
I'm not getting it. Immutable data
from self report isn't that anecdotal and

611
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:51,279
hence it's not empirically driven data.
We had this discussion about my thoughts about

612
01:15:51,319 --> 01:15:58,880
the empirical myth yes this, you
know earlier I said that anecdotal data is

613
01:15:59,039 --> 01:16:05,640
the is the weakest form of scientific
data. Scientists don't like it. If

614
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:15,760
we were able to prove bigfoots bigfoots
existence through anecdotes, we would have had

615
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:21,119
it proven, you know, forty
five fifty years ago. But what these

616
01:16:21,239 --> 01:16:29,640
suggestions are. The suggestions I'm providing
here, Eric, are to make that

617
01:16:30,039 --> 01:16:36,920
data less mutable or less likely to
change, or if there is a change

618
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:46,840
in the data, that can be
tracked or monitored, and add some empiricism

619
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:56,960
to the data itself. If that
makes any sense to you, thanks,

620
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:09,720
In doing the interview, you're basically
just using good counseling and therapy skills.

621
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:15,159
The first pass at the story,
you just allow them to tell their story

622
01:17:15,319 --> 01:17:24,560
the first time, completely and uninterrupted, let them get it off their chest,

623
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:31,439
don't keep interrupting them in the middle
of it. You then ask them

624
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:40,239
to tell their story again. But
during this second telling you can ask questions,

625
01:17:40,319 --> 01:17:45,479
but make sure those questions are non
leading and open ended questions. Non

626
01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:49,600
leading like, well, you know
the first time you told well an example,

627
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:55,000
a leading question would be, you
know, the first time you told

628
01:17:55,039 --> 01:17:59,760
the story, you didn't mention anything
about the face. Did you notice anything

629
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:04,119
interesting about the face or the eyes
or the eyes red or green? Or

630
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:13,439
you know? Those are leading questions
and they're not open ended questions. Open

631
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:17,560
ended questions. The point of an
open ended question is to get the person

632
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:27,920
to spontaneously elaborate with more details.
Close ended questions reduce the number of details

633
01:18:28,239 --> 01:18:32,640
you get and you get less information. So an example of an open ended

634
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:39,079
question after the person tells their story
the first time would be, you know,

635
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:43,199
tell me more about that story,
or tell me anything else you might

636
01:18:43,359 --> 01:18:48,439
remember about that story. You're not
directing them to your own biases about Bigfoot.

637
01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:55,640
Well you know what color was the
hair, or what color were the

638
01:18:55,800 --> 01:19:01,600
eyes or how long were the arms? Those are direct and leading questions,

639
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:09,880
and they're not open ended questions.
Now we're moving on to the thirds,

640
01:19:10,039 --> 01:19:15,119
and Jessica, you have no reason
to apologize, but Bud, now we're

641
01:19:15,159 --> 01:19:20,600
moving on to the third telling.
And each of these tellings are video and

642
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:28,920
or audio taped, because through each
of these recordings, the person can either

643
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:36,439
come up with more detail or those
details can fall by the wayside. And

644
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:44,479
so that's the importance of having this
information video and or audio record it so

645
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:49,079
that you can can compare the stories
and how they might change over time.

646
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:55,359
And this is going to increase the
integrity of the data. You're going to

647
01:19:55,760 --> 01:20:00,680
get a sense for what are the
accurate and most accurate details this story.

648
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:09,800
So we're going to do a third
telling of the of the experiences story as

649
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:15,880
a group in front of the larger
expedition expedition group debriefers in an under interrupted

650
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:27,760
fashion, so you know, after
your designated interviews or debriefers, let the

651
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:31,560
person get it off their chest.
Then they ask questions in a non leading

652
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:39,319
and open ended way. You have
them, for a third time tell the

653
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:45,159
story in front of the larger expedition
group, but as they did the very

654
01:20:45,239 --> 01:20:53,680
first time, just letting them get
it off their chest, uninterrupted. And

655
01:20:53,840 --> 01:21:00,079
then the fourth telling of the story, again it's in front of the larger

656
01:21:00,159 --> 01:21:06,880
expedition group, but now there's a
free for all, free for all questioning

657
01:21:08,359 --> 01:21:12,640
by anyone else in that larger group. But again, I'm sorry, my

658
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:21,760
butt's hurtin today Again it's still being
recorded because now people are going to come

659
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:29,279
in with their leading questions, They're
going to come in with their own bias

660
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:34,800
questions and ask people about specific things
about the Bigfoot. And by recording that,

661
01:21:36,279 --> 01:21:41,319
that's going to allow you to compare
it to the three other tellings that

662
01:21:41,560 --> 01:21:46,560
you have and see if there's any
embellishment going on as the story gets told

663
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:55,800
time and time and time and time
again. Question here isn't the same?

664
01:21:56,359 --> 01:22:00,359
Is it? The same debrief for
each time. Well, if you've got

665
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:04,439
if Jessica, if you've got a
group of four or five people going out

666
01:22:06,319 --> 01:22:12,880
and you only have one designated debriefer, and all four or five of those

667
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:17,760
people have that experience, and with
the designated debriefer, you've got to hear

668
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:25,239
the story first one unfettered by any
questions, and then a second time asking

669
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:30,119
non leading and open ended questions.
It's going to take you a long time

670
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:38,319
to do that for four or five
people. And so depending on the size

671
01:22:38,399 --> 01:22:44,680
of the expedition group that you're going
out on, you may want to train

672
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:53,600
anywhere from three to four people within
the group to do these debriefings when it

673
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:59,119
goes to the larger group. Yes, the third telling and the fourth telling

674
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:06,119
are moderated by that debriefing team.
Okay, we'll see you later, John,

675
01:23:06,199 --> 01:23:12,439
thanks for coming, buddy. So
you want it to be of the

676
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:17,479
same group of people, but in
large groups, just having one designated and

677
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:32,199
trained debriefer is going to extend this
process too much any other questions. But

678
01:23:32,520 --> 01:23:39,399
to further answer your question, Yeah, for that one person, the same

679
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:46,439
debriefer does the first story unfit records
the first interview unfettered, then the second

680
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:53,800
telling with questions, and then they're
present also for the third and the fourth

681
01:23:53,880 --> 01:24:01,520
telling. Okay, well, good
night to you, say P sixty ASPA

682
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:06,359
sixty. Thanks for attending. I
appreciate it very much and I'm honored.

683
01:24:14,239 --> 01:24:25,119
Finally, chain of custody issues.
And I think my next show, since

684
01:24:25,199 --> 01:24:31,399
my next show will be the last
one before I record the show after that

685
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:38,239
pre record it, I think my
next show is probably going to tackle the

686
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:45,840
Melby Ketchum study because this is one
of the issues, the scientific issues that

687
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:53,880
I have with that study, and
I think, well, I'll save that

688
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:59,399
for the next shown. Anyway,
one of the important factors in any kind

689
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:06,960
of scientist or experiential research is you've
got to establish a chain of custody.

690
01:25:08,079 --> 01:25:14,560
What does that mean? That means
who gets the data, who does the

691
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:24,560
recordings and interviews, and who then
is responsible for holding, storing and securing

692
01:25:25,159 --> 01:25:42,119
those interviews, Who then controls people's
right or ability to access those recordings.

693
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:49,960
All that, all those considerations are
called chain of custody of the data,

694
01:25:51,119 --> 01:26:02,720
be it in scientific research or experiential
research. So it should be one and

695
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:11,880
only one person being made responsible for
maintaining the security of these video and audio

696
01:26:12,039 --> 01:26:21,359
tapes. Too many cooks spoil the
pot. Mate to use a cooking metaphor,

697
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:27,880
but you know, when you're cooking
a meal and everybody and their mothers

698
01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:35,119
start coming in and adding their touches, the dish isn't going to taste like

699
01:26:35,239 --> 01:26:41,600
you want it to. It isn't
going to maintain its flavor integrity. And

700
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:47,079
that's why you want one and only
one person to be responsible for maintaining the

701
01:26:47,239 --> 01:26:58,319
security of the video or audio tapes. That person themselves establishes policies and procedures

702
01:26:59,279 --> 01:27:04,279
for data examination and research. It's
not just hey, bub, I'm gonna

703
01:27:04,319 --> 01:27:11,359
go grab John's tape from last night. I'll get it back to you.

704
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:19,760
Whenever things can be audio taped over, things can accidentally be erased. Lots

705
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:30,119
of things can happen when somebody who's
outside that person who's mainly responsible, checks

706
01:27:30,159 --> 01:27:33,680
one out. So there should be
a checkout and a check in protocol.

707
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:45,279
There should be policies and procedures about
whether those tapes can be copied or not,

708
01:27:45,159 --> 01:27:51,520
and if they are copied, how
many times and by whom. There

709
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:58,680
should be policies and procedures about the
maintenance, distribution, and security of the

710
01:27:59,399 --> 01:28:04,239
copies, policies and procedures. You
know, if only one person is going

711
01:28:04,319 --> 01:28:12,000
to maintain the chain of custody and
somebody checks out that audio and video film

712
01:28:13,239 --> 01:28:18,880
and they make their own copy,
I would advise against allowing that person to

713
01:28:19,079 --> 01:28:27,640
hold that copy. They need to
return that copy back to the main person

714
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:33,920
who is responsible for chain of custody. The more copies that are out there

715
01:28:34,199 --> 01:28:45,600
something, the more those copies can
be diluted and manipulated and changed until you're

716
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:55,760
looking at something different or listening to
something different from the original. If the

717
01:28:55,880 --> 01:29:04,920
individual who wants to check it out
wants to do research on that particular recording,

718
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:13,479
there needs to be some research standards
about what kind of research they're going

719
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:21,560
to do and how they're going to
do it. Let's see Eric's point.

720
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:29,560
Though anecdotal could possibly possibly try and
set up the same scenario and see if

721
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:34,760
the same thing happens, couldn't that
be a probability of the same experience becoming

722
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:46,439
quantitative? Eric? Let me go
back to Eric's point, I'm not getting

723
01:29:46,479 --> 01:29:51,319
it immutable data from self report.
Isn't that anecdotal and hence it's not empirically

724
01:29:51,760 --> 01:30:01,119
driven data. I think Jessica.
Yes and no. Some people say that

725
01:30:01,319 --> 01:30:08,600
on one hand, if you've if
you've heard one Bigfoot story, you hear

726
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:15,960
them all. You've heard them all
because the themes and the general story do

727
01:30:15,279 --> 01:30:25,479
run in common ways. And that's
one of the ways because of those similarities

728
01:30:26,279 --> 01:30:30,560
and parallels. One of the things
that nobody talks about as a way to

729
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:41,439
elevate anecdotal data is to encode that
data. You can encode the words used

730
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:48,800
and the scenarios described. And if
you do that to every story encoded into

731
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:58,600
a numeric data set, then you
can analyze those recordings for similarities and differences,

732
01:30:59,399 --> 01:31:11,199
and that's a way to elevate and
anecdotes scientific value. The flip side

733
01:31:11,399 --> 01:31:18,640
is Bigfoot encounters are kind of random. You don't know if you're going to

734
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:24,600
experience one or when you're going to
experience one. And as much as I

735
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:31,880
just was talking about how there are
generally some similarities between stories, there are

736
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:38,600
also generally some differences between stories,
and so you need to set up your

737
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:45,319
encoding system reducing words and scenarios down
to numeric data. You've got to allow

738
01:31:45,479 --> 01:31:54,720
for both the similarities and the differences. But yes, it then begins with

739
01:31:54,960 --> 01:32:01,079
that quantitative analysis, with assigning numbers
to it, and that data, you

740
01:32:01,159 --> 01:32:10,039
know you're approaching scientific research. Basically. How far that gets you is you're

741
01:32:10,039 --> 01:32:15,039
going to see if they fit the
normal curve? Can you use what are

742
01:32:15,079 --> 01:32:23,279
called parametric statistics. Parametric statistics are
a fancy way of saying your data fits

743
01:32:23,359 --> 01:32:28,239
the normal curve, that bell shaped
curve for folks not familiar with that.

744
01:32:30,239 --> 01:32:35,119
When you were going to grade school
and the teacher gave a really hard test

745
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:43,199
and everybody in the class failed it, so the teacher comes as says to

746
01:32:43,319 --> 01:32:46,039
you, we've got to grade it
on the curve to make it fair.

747
01:32:47,239 --> 01:32:53,600
The curve that they're referring to is
the normal curve. Interestingly enough, though,

748
01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:59,760
in doing that, the data itself
really doesn't fit the normal curve.

749
01:33:00,119 --> 01:33:06,000
Skewed because everybody the test was so
hard that nobody passed it. The dumbkins

750
01:33:06,079 --> 01:33:11,600
in class as well as the brightest
kids in class didn't pass the test.

751
01:33:12,119 --> 01:33:15,880
So that's what we would call skewed
data. And what teachers would do,

752
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:20,640
at least in the high school that
Eric and I went to, they would

753
01:33:21,079 --> 01:33:32,439
they would force that data onto the
normal curve so that somebody would eventually you

754
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:41,039
know there would be a passing grade
and a failing grade or failing grade and

755
01:33:41,199 --> 01:33:47,720
passing grades. But yes, anytime
you can quantify, take your data from

756
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:56,720
words or situations down to numbers,
and then analyze those numbers, you're adding

757
01:33:56,920 --> 01:34:02,359
scientific value. You're not just balling
the data or or making generalizations. You

758
01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:18,399
can make informed answers, informed responses
about that data. Research, modified database

759
01:34:18,600 --> 01:34:28,800
maintenance. Yeah. So again,
the same person that's holding the original recordings

760
01:34:29,439 --> 01:34:39,199
also then becomes responsible for holding the
recording the copies of the the data.

761
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:45,800
So this was more of a casual
pace. Oops, this was more of

762
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:53,680
a casual pace to me. Ohno
Another slide, why so many repetitions?

763
01:34:53,840 --> 01:35:04,199
Why so immediately delays or avoidance delays
in a avoidance of traumatic events facilitate increased

764
01:35:04,399 --> 01:35:12,239
likelihood of PSD PTSD as. When
you're a therapist working with someone the ultimate

765
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:18,680
that had an experience that is horrifying
and fearful for them, the ultimate goal

766
01:35:19,039 --> 01:35:26,000
is to help these people turn and
face those fears and live through those fears

767
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:31,920
with more effective coping. And that's
how you treat most anxiety disorders. The

768
01:35:32,079 --> 01:35:38,199
natural thing for somebody to want to
do when they've had that kind of experience

769
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:43,239
is to avoid it. It was
unpleasant. I just want to forget about

770
01:35:43,279 --> 01:35:46,920
it. The longer they forget about
it or push it out, the more

771
01:35:47,199 --> 01:35:56,079
likely and stronger their chances are of
developing PTSD. And the stronger those chances

772
01:35:56,199 --> 01:36:01,560
become of that PTSD being not are
being resilient. It's not going to go

773
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:15,840
away. It's going to keep coming
back. The repeated recitations through this procedure

774
01:36:15,039 --> 01:36:23,039
that I've discussed in this show,
that's getting those people on the right track.

775
01:36:23,159 --> 01:36:28,279
To begin with, they're telling that
story four times, so they're immediately

776
01:36:28,439 --> 01:36:33,640
being exposed and re exposed and re
exposed and re exposed to that event.

777
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:43,640
And as that re exposure happens,
the PTSD or the trauma of that begins

778
01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:49,039
to lose its power or its salience. Telling the experience in front of the

779
01:36:49,199 --> 01:36:56,880
larger expedition allows for a few things
to happen, normalizes it. Chances are

780
01:36:57,000 --> 01:37:01,760
in that larger group there's going to
be other people that have had similar experiences,

781
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:08,640
and that gives them an opportunity to
share their experiences with the people who

782
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:12,399
just had it, and that kind
of lets the people that just had it

783
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:15,640
know that they're not alone. This
can be a normal thing when you're out

784
01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:23,439
there looking for bigfoot. It also
gives people a chance to offer and receive

785
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:30,199
support and empathy. It also uses
the group process, the interactions of the

786
01:37:30,319 --> 01:37:38,239
people in the group to identify possible
missed information or embellished information. For that

787
01:37:39,119 --> 01:37:46,439
much, and then it also increases
the entire groups. The entire group expeditions

788
01:37:47,199 --> 01:37:54,439
investment in the investigative process. You're
in effect using the Hawthorn effect in a

789
01:37:54,520 --> 01:38:02,840
positive way for those people who didn't
attend shows on bias the Hawthorn effect.

790
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:14,640
A company was losing money and their
productivity was down, and they hired a

791
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:20,920
consultant firm to come in and try
and figure out why their productivity and production

792
01:38:21,119 --> 01:38:25,560
were going down. Well, lo
and behold. For the week or two

793
01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:32,760
that they studied that company, the
production went up. There were no deficits.

794
01:38:34,279 --> 01:38:41,479
And that's called the Hawthorn effect,
meaning just the process of observing a

795
01:38:41,640 --> 01:38:48,600
group and their knowledge of that observation
is likely to impact the group that's being

796
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:56,680
studied, and it's typically when you're
dealing with production, it's increased production and

797
01:38:56,880 --> 01:39:06,520
so by the entire group becoming more
invested in this scientific investigative process. It's

798
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:17,199
going to benefit the group as a
whole if that makes sense, and questions

799
01:39:17,239 --> 01:39:21,880
and discussion, hopefully, guys,
I usually don't get too many questions.

800
01:39:23,239 --> 01:39:28,520
I've got my own hypotheses about why
that is, but I'm not going to

801
01:39:28,600 --> 01:39:31,199
get into those. But you know, I really want to encourage people to

802
01:39:31,319 --> 01:39:36,359
ask questions. If I've said something
that you don't get or isn't clear to

803
01:39:36,479 --> 01:39:42,640
you, please ask me to clarify
it, because the whole purpose of my

804
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:48,399
show is to educate and inform people
about how we can use science and these

805
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:55,960
techniques to improve the quality of bigfoot
research. And if I'm not getting my

806
01:39:56,119 --> 01:40:00,720
point across or my message across,
or I'm saying it was so many high

807
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:08,760
flute words that you're not understanding my
point, I'm not accomplishing what I'm hoping

808
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:13,520
to through this podcast. So please, As I said earlier in the show,

809
01:40:14,199 --> 01:40:18,319
there are no dumb questions. And
now that we have this extended format,

810
01:40:18,960 --> 01:40:24,119
we've got more time. It's twenty
of we got you know, a

811
01:40:24,199 --> 01:40:28,840
good fifteen minutes to ask questions.
If there are questions, I'm not going

812
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:33,199
to beg or twist any further,
beg or beg or twist arms any further.

813
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:38,479
But by all means, please if
you don't understand something, or you

814
01:40:38,520 --> 01:40:43,479
want me to elaborate on something or
clarify something, now we've got the time

815
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:57,119
to do that. So any questions, I know, I'm just such an

816
01:40:57,159 --> 01:41:08,399
effective teacher that tip. Everything's crystal
clear. I'm just kidding. No questions,

817
01:41:11,239 --> 01:41:15,039
Craig, you got any questions about
it, you legacy, just post

818
01:41:15,119 --> 01:41:21,920
it on What is that the one
that you and Eric were just talking about

819
01:41:23,039 --> 01:41:33,359
that I put up? Is this
the one? There's always one that scures

820
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:39,720
up the normal curve. That's an
interesting point, you know, And that's

821
01:41:39,760 --> 01:41:45,039
an interesting point about one of the
ways science is biased as well. When

822
01:41:45,079 --> 01:41:49,199
you get a whole let's say you
give a test to one hundred people and

823
01:41:49,319 --> 01:41:56,119
you get a whole group of scores, sometimes you're going to have unusually high

824
01:41:56,239 --> 01:42:02,520
scores and sometimes you're going to have
unusually low scores, and those scores are

825
01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:13,920
called outliers. An outlier is something
so extreme in its score that it affects

826
01:42:14,079 --> 01:42:18,119
the shape of that normal curve.
It falls outside of the normal curve.

827
01:42:19,079 --> 01:42:28,000
And when your data doesn't fit that
bell shaped normal curve, you can't use

828
01:42:28,119 --> 01:42:32,039
parametric statistics, you've got to use
another form of statistics. And in fact,

829
01:42:32,319 --> 01:42:39,600
despite all my years and God and
it's gracious, I studied statistics in

830
01:42:40,279 --> 01:42:47,800
my master's degree, and then I
had a beginning statistics, intermediate statistics,

831
01:42:47,840 --> 01:42:53,079
and advanced statistics. And then of
course when you do your dissertation, you're

832
01:42:53,119 --> 01:42:58,680
doing an experiment, and so you've
got to use statistics in your dissertation.

833
01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:06,359
I use them in my dissertation.
And one of the things we do is

834
01:43:06,479 --> 01:43:13,960
we just forget about we throw out
those extremely high scores are those extremely low

835
01:43:14,079 --> 01:43:18,159
scores. And to me, that's
just a fascinating process because in fact,

836
01:43:18,880 --> 01:43:24,439
what you're doing is you're throwing out
data that doesn't fit the normal curve,

837
01:43:25,119 --> 01:43:30,199
even though that's the reality of the
data that you got. So you're kind

838
01:43:30,199 --> 01:43:35,039
of forcing that normal curve into it
onto it. And I think that's part

839
01:43:35,119 --> 01:43:40,199
of what, you know, one
of the false potential faults. There are

840
01:43:40,239 --> 01:43:44,960
good reasons to do it, but
I think it's important to understand that you're

841
01:43:45,079 --> 01:43:53,359
kind of stacking the deck in your
favor when those extreme bits of data get

842
01:43:53,479 --> 01:43:56,920
thrown out. I don't know if
that's what you were referring to. Jessica

843
01:43:57,119 --> 01:44:01,680
or not. No, that's not
it. Why don't you retype the question

844
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:14,920
if you don't mind? Yes,
look, okay, let me find was

845
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:19,720
it. To Eric's point, though
anecdotal could possibly could possibly try and set

846
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:25,479
up the same scenarios, saying I
think I answered that one is that the

847
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:30,640
one see if the same thing happens, couldn't that begin a probability of the

848
01:44:30,760 --> 01:44:36,359
same experience becoming quantitative? Yeah,
I address that. I'm talking about how

849
01:44:36,920 --> 01:44:44,159
the experiences are typically random, and
that they share similarities as well as differences.

850
01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:51,079
Jennifer Arnold, you post it one, Okay, let me find it,

851
01:45:01,720 --> 01:45:10,479
Jennifer. Jennifer are question. Thank
you, Jennifer. How would this

852
01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:16,199
work with digital files that may not
be on tapes? Well, you know,

853
01:45:16,640 --> 01:45:21,880
in today's technology, you know,
I think for the most part,

854
01:45:23,199 --> 01:45:32,680
we've moved away from tapes. You
know, mostly it's digitized CDs, although

855
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:39,159
you can still, I think,
get cassette tapes. You can still buy

856
01:45:39,399 --> 01:45:45,880
the very camera that was used to
film the Patterson Gimlin film, and that

857
01:45:46,159 --> 01:45:50,399
was on film. You know,
I think this could be I think this

858
01:45:50,600 --> 01:46:01,359
could be done on video and audio
tapes are on digitized data. I think

859
01:46:02,239 --> 01:46:09,479
that the the more simple you can
keep it, the better. It's a

860
01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:20,279
lot easier to manipulate a digital file
than it is to manipulate a non digital

861
01:46:20,439 --> 01:46:30,239
tape of the of the experience.
So the whether it's digital or non digital,

862
01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:35,840
I think what that speaks to and
what can be influenced there is how

863
01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:44,439
easily that data can be manipulated by
somebody with mal intent. And that's why

864
01:46:44,520 --> 01:46:48,880
it's really important to have for the
person who has chain a custody of the

865
01:46:49,039 --> 01:46:56,960
data to have checkout times and signatures
and check back in and signatures, And

866
01:46:57,159 --> 01:47:03,840
it might not even hurt to include
a review process before or soon after that

867
01:47:04,279 --> 01:47:10,279
tape is checked back in to compare
it to the original. If you're getting

868
01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:16,119
a copyback to try and capture people
who are messing with your data, there

869
01:47:16,159 --> 01:47:27,119
are people out there who unfortunately will
do that thing. And so the medium

870
01:47:27,279 --> 01:47:35,479
within which it's records speaks to how
that data can be manipulated and influenced outside

871
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:41,880
of its original intent. I'm not
sure, Jennifer, if that's answering your

872
01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:51,960
question or not. It isn't let
me know. I'm still hunting for Maybe

873
01:47:53,079 --> 01:48:04,399
this is Jessica's I know that's maybe
it's this one and we address that one.

874
01:48:05,039 --> 01:48:15,640
Girl. I just maybe you rewrote
it. No, I'm not sure

875
01:48:15,680 --> 01:48:30,039
what other question Jessica you're referring to
there, Jennifer. If that didn't answer

876
01:48:30,079 --> 01:48:38,800
your question, by all means,
please let me know other questions or thoughts

877
01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:56,359
going once. Yes, look,
Jessica, did I get the question you

878
01:48:56,479 --> 01:49:05,840
were referring to? Was that Jennifer's
question? And Jennifer, I'm sorry I

879
01:49:06,039 --> 01:49:15,239
missed it. I'm glad that I
found it. That was a good question,

880
01:49:17,920 --> 01:49:25,279
Okay, any other questions if not, I'm going to thank you very

881
01:49:25,399 --> 01:49:30,520
much for attending this. For me, at least, this was a much

882
01:49:30,680 --> 01:49:36,239
less stressful show. I didn't feel
pressured to rush through it, and I

883
01:49:36,520 --> 01:49:43,560
was able to do it in a
more slower and more elaborative pace, which

884
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:48,920
is rather nice for me, and
I hope that made it a better show

885
01:49:49,159 --> 01:49:56,800
for you guys as well, having
a little bit more time. As always,

886
01:49:57,119 --> 01:50:00,399
I'm going to ask you, guys, when you're doing your bi foot

887
01:50:00,520 --> 01:50:04,359
research or whether it's just going through
life, I'm going to ask you to

888
01:50:04,479 --> 01:50:13,920
keep your mind's open, your boots
on the ground, and keep your heart

889
01:50:14,319 --> 01:50:18,039
with your higher power, God bless
you and have a good evening. We'll

890
01:50:18,119 --> 01:50:25,039
see you next Monday at six o'clock. Oh and by the way, check

891
01:50:25,640 --> 01:50:35,600
out Check Please check out Doug high
Check show this Wednesday. I'm going to

892
01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:41,119
be one of a few people on
that show, and we're going to kind

893
01:50:41,159 --> 01:50:45,560
of have just a round table of
discussion about kind of whatever comes up,

894
01:50:45,760 --> 01:50:49,439
and or some of us are going
to be telling some of our own personal

895
01:50:49,560 --> 01:50:55,199
stories. It should be an interesting
show. I'm really looking forward to that

896
01:50:55,960 --> 01:51:00,720
and very honored that Doug is having
me on for a second time. So

897
01:51:00,319 --> 01:51:03,960
again, keep your minds open,
your boots on the ground, and your

898
01:51:04,000 --> 01:51:09,800
heart with your higher power. We'll
see you on Wednesday. If not Wednesday,

899
01:51:10,319 --> 01:51:35,800
next Monday, be safe. I'll
see you on him from every reason.

900
01:51:38,640 --> 01:51:44,960
Don't try to blame it all the
seasons why you want to walk away.

901
01:51:47,720 --> 01:52:00,640
Wn't we begay? Swear we had
sothing songthing that was last baby has

902
01:52:00,720 --> 01:52:16,239
a feeling that follow it with easy
holler, I make steak. I'll let

903
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:45,560
try any truth tried. Was I
a fool? I know somethtimes I may

904
01:52:45,760 --> 01:52:53,880
wonder, but I would never leave
asunder I'm thinking as good as what we

905
01:52:54,439 --> 01:53:10,159
have, is it horrible? Scoot
with the blood there hain't no inn and

906
01:53:10,399 --> 01:53:17,840
you and I were made to last. Holling it CZ, how can we

907
01:53:18,119 --> 01:53:45,600
make stage? I'm let try at, I'm now let try and China,

908
01:53:48,960 --> 01:54:12,479
I'm now let God try. Have
you had a change you hid? Can

909
01:54:12,640 --> 01:54:43,439
we go back to the start?
Oh Lord? Let go Hi. I

910
01:54:43,520 --> 01:54:47,760
want to do it all with your
bandmas side. If you're in me here

911
01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:55,079
tonight, be ben to come along. I'll be your I'm sweet you only

912
01:54:55,239 --> 01:55:00,239
no break bas Yeah,