And now Audio Theater Central. Hello, welcome to Audio Theater Central. This
is the show that explores family friendly audio drama through news, reviews and interviews.
I'm your host, JD. Sutter, and this is episode one hundred
and eighty four. Well, I'll be joined in a little while by writer
and director Craig Hart for an interview about all that he's got going on over
at LRT Media and an exclusive announcement about the Robin Hood project that he is
working on. So you want to stick around for that, It's going to
be great. I've got a bunch of audio drama updates to get to here
shortly, and some feedback from easy about Old Time Radio. Also, in
the monologue segment, I'm going to be talking about the problem of the senecas
the future of the awards. So if you showed up to this episode specifically
for that, you can jump to the following time stamp one hour, ten
minutes and one second. I know I had mentioned in the awards broadcast that
I would be addressing the future of the awards in this episode, so I
wanted to make it easy for you to get right to that if that's what
you came here for. All right, let's jump into the updates. Were
interrupt this program to bring you a special report and in other news tonight a
brief look at the headlines. Now they want exciting, fast piece news that's
relevant and entertaining like this. Well, I just mentioned the Seneca Awards.
If you missed it. The replay is available at the website and the full
list of the winners is listed there as well, so you can go check
that out right now if you want to, or stick around because the replay
will be dropped into the Audio Theater Central podcast feed in the next episode and
we'll be hearing from the winners in some acceptance speeches in that episode, and
there will be the normal updates segment in that one as well, so stick
around for that if you would prefer to listen to the Seneca Awards that way.
Well, September is the anniversary of Audio Theater Central, and not doing
anything special, just thought I would mention it. September twenty seven, twenty
ten, was when the first episode dropped. That's kind of not true,
because we did drop the actual very first episode earlier that month, but it
was what I called episode zero, just an introduction to the show and the
official episode one was released on September twenty seven. But here we are,
thirteen years later, still going strong, and that's due in large part to
you listening. So thank you for sticking with us, and let's keep this
thing going well. Speaking of anniversaries, the BBC is celebrating their audio drama
anniversary, celebrating one hundred years of audio drama all this month. So there's
a link in the show notes to check out their lineup of special programming and
things. But the BBC has for many, many years made some really great,
high quality audio drama. Particularly a lot of their adaptations of classic literature
are my favorites, and so I've listened to a ton of that stuff.
So they are definitely a mainstay in this industry and they have consistently been putting
out great stuff. So celebrating one hundred years of audio drama for them,
that is just really really cool. So congratulations to BBC Radio. And a
couple of little items that are coming up soon that I wanted to make sure
to let you know about. Firstly is Alpha Omegacon, which is a Christian
comic con Basically, it is a Christian comic book and pop culture convention.
And it is just a one day event. It is in Long Beach,
California, on September sixteenth, and Katie Lee will be there. If you
don't know, Katie is the voice of Connie Kendall on Adventures and Odyssey.
So if you are anywhere near southern California and would like to meet Katie,
there is your opportunity. Alpha Omegacon and who knows, you might find some
other great content, some comics or whatever that you can enjoy there as well.
Their website is Alpha omegacon dot com and it is linked in the show
notes. Another thing coming up very soon, This will be kicking off in
October, but Odyssey Moments is relaunching their Flat Eugene contest. Now, if
you're not familiar with Flat Eugene, it is a It is an AIO spin
on the Flat Stanley Project, And if you don't know what that is,
check it out on Wikipedia. There's a huge article about it. But basically,
you have a print out of the character of Eugene. You take it
around and take photos of Eugene in different places. So the challenge is going
to be going for the entire month of October. And as I said,
the challenge is to take a photo of flat Eugene daily based on a prompt
that is given for that day, and you post that photo to social media
using a specific hashtag, or you can also email it in. You are
not required to submit a photo every single day, but if you do,
have a little bit of an advantage when it comes time for tallying up everything
and choosing a winner. So you'll want to follow at Flat Eugene on Instagram
to stay informed or the Odyssey Moment's accounts. Maybe more information will be coming
up on the Odyssey Moment's website as well. There will be a first,
second, and third place prize including a copy of Adventures and Odyssey album seventy
five and some other cool stuff. So I know we're a little ways away
from that, but I wanted to make sure you had enough time to plan
and look into what you need to do to get ready for that. If
you want to take part in the Flat Eugene contest. Hopefully we'll have some
more details soon, so stay tuned to the website and possibly in the next
episode, I'll have some more information as well. All right, now we
get to upcoming audio drummer releases well, Eternal Future Productions has announced that they
are going to be producing a brand new show, and this will be a
standalone one off production called Resurgence. Now. They teamed up with Glenn Haskell
to write this and the team at Eternal Future will be producing it and it
is slated to release in early twenty twenty four. Again, it's a standalone
production, running somewhere in the thirty to forty minute range and they've described it
as a romance with a twist. Again, it's called Resurgence, and if
you want to see the artwork for it, there's a link in the show
notes to go check out the blog post on the EFP website. But that's
all that we have about this show so far. So not a whole lot,
but hey, they're doing really good at dripping out information just to get
people excited about them. You know, they've got you know, more pirateiers
coming this year and then they're working on Venture. So now here's another standalone
production to add to their catalog, so looking forward to that. Also,
there is a new season of base Camp Adventures coming. Album six titled Return
will start releasing September thirteenth with episode one, and that episode is called Need
a Hand. Now, there will be a lot of new characters because they're
moving into a sort of new era of this show because a lot of the
kid campers from previous albums are grown, so they're they're moving on bringing in
a new stable of characters in this new album. So lots to look forward
to with Base Camp Adventures again. That first episode is releasing on September thirteenth
on the podcast feed and in the live action app. All Right, our
last upcoming release, and it's another little bit of a teaser that we don't
have a whole lot of information about yet, but marky Witz audio Works has
announced the title of their upcoming Christmas production for twenty twenty three. And I
hope I'm pronouncing this correctly, but Ardubon and the Quest for the King is
the title, and it is based on the eighteen ninety five story The other
Wise Man by Henry Van Dyke. And they said they are about sixty percent
done with the script to this point and we'll begin casting in September, so
they will begin production soon. And that is another new Christmas audio drama that
we have to look forward to this coming holiday season. Now, this next
item is not a new item. It is quite old, actually, but
it was just recently discovered. And I know there are those of you in
this community who are big fans of Jungle Jam, and so Austin Peachy recently
found an interview that was done on a radio station several years ago when I'm
assuming the Jungle Jam was still in production and just starting out on radio stations
or somewhere in that era. And it is an interview with Jeff Parker,
Phil Lawler, and Nathan Carlson that aired on w IBI, a radio station
in Illinois. And it's a short interview, it's about nine minutes. And
from what I understand, the on air talent who did the interview recently posted
the audio of that interview to YouTube, and you can go listen to that
and hear him interviewing the creators of this show. And then they transition over
and he starts interviewing the guys as their characters, and so Phil and Nathan
get to do a whole bunch of the Jungle Jam characters. It's a lot
of fun. Again, it's only about nine minutes, but it was a
really fun to hear that. So that is linked in the show notes.
If you want to check that out, just in case you missed it.
John Fornoff his podcast story Chat. He recently had two episodes that he released
with Phil Lawler, and the first one was all about AIO and the title
of that episode is just Phil Lawler. And the majority of the information that
Phil shared in that episode was stuff that I was already aware of, so
there wasn't a whole lot knew that I heard in that, but it was
still cool to hear him talking about of the early days of AIO and some
of the inspiration for certain elements of the show. So it's worth a listen.
But the one that really grabbed me was the second episode that he had
him on and it was just all about story and the title is Story Is
Everything, And it was just a really great conversation from two very experienced audio
drama writers, all about telling good stories in this medium and just some really
great nuggets in there, so definitely worth a listen. As soon as I
finished it, I messaged John and said, man, that was great stuff.
I'm going to have to listen to it again. And so if you
are interested at all in the craft of storytelling, you definitely want to listen
to that. Episode, and both of them are linked in the show notes.
All Right, our last item here is a brand new episode of Witnesses.
This is the first episode, part two of the miniseries The Lamb that
Tracy has been working on for a few years now. The title of the
episode is The Chosen and it is focusing on Simon of Cyrene, who is
played by Sean Condi. The official blurb for this episode is Simon of Cyrene
longs to serve the God he loves, but while in Jerusalem for Passover,
he's horrified when he's forced to carry a condemned man's cross, unaware that he
is helping the sacrificial lamb of God. So if you want to check that
out. As with all of the episodes of Witnesses, you can stream them
for free at the website which is linked in the show notes. Definitely worth
a listen. I'm just absolutely loving what Tracy is doing with the show Witnesses,
and she's given some really great talent on that show, and it's just
some really really good stuff, So you'll want to check that out. I
have some very important information and I thought i'd be getting it into the hands
of a real reporter sir, cause I speak to you a moment. Oh
well, there's nothing to it. I just ask you the questions and you
answer them in the tape recorder. Here play the interview well. Craig Hart
is a writer, director, and the founder of LRT Media. He's been
a novelist for many years, so he's no stranger to writing stories, but
he just got into the audio drama space a few years ago, so I
am really happy to have him on the show today. So, Craig,
I've wanted to have you on for quite a while now because I wanted to
get some perspectives from a newer entrant into this industry. I mean not that
you're inexperienced in content creation, but this is sort of a new avenue for
you over the last few years, and I thought i'd be interesting to get
some perspectives from you as someone who's doing some really great work in this industry
in just a few years. So thank you for coming on the show.
Absolutely, I have wants to be on this podcast, I bet for long
then you've wanted me on it. So I know you did an interview with
Michael la Favor on his show a couple of years ago, and you talked
about being an Odyssey fan growing up, But what were some of the other
shows that you listened to in the early days. A lot of old time
radio stuff. Gun Smoke and Suspense and Escape were some of my favorites,
but really anything and from that era like Jack Benny and Phil Harris, Out's
Face Show, Fibrugge and Molly. I grew up without access to television and
movies and so it was books and audio for me, and so anything I
could get my hands on that was in that medium was all about it.
At the library they still had some of the stuff. I got a hold
of the old original Star Wars audio drama that I found out about the BBC,
and that was a whole new world because I could get into the classics
and drama audio drama format and it was amazing. So just everything I could
find. Did you have any particular favorites outside of Adventures in Odyssey? The
BBC stuff was great, and then of course the later on focus on the
Family started coming out with their stuff and that was just world class. I
love that kind of stuff as well. Trying to think that so it was
Adventures in Odyssey, So what my family would do on Saturday morning, we'd
all get up and my mom would make a big breakfast for everybody, and
while she was doing that, we would listen to Ranger Bill, Adventures in
Odyssey, and there was one more in forgetting maybe Sugar Creek Gang. I
am not for sure. It was just a whole lineup they had, and
that was my memory of Saturday morning. I wish I could go back and
do that, just this one more time. It was just still so great,
so formative, so great, and yeah, so a ranger But I
still listened to obviously Odyssey, but Ranger Bill. I still I found where
just about all of them were available as a podcast, and so I still
listened to those sometimes at night, falling asleep. So that was probably my
other sides. Adventures in Odyssey, it was probably my other go to.
Perhaps that third one was Children's Bible Hour, because yeah, it was,
Yes, it was those three for me too growing up. Yes, because
Uncle Charlie that was producing Grand Rapids, Michigan and that was where I lived,
So I can't even believe I forgot that. So there was a time
where we are church had a small school and we once went to CBH on
a field trip, so we got to meet Uncle Charlie. He played the
piano for us, and we sang like the song and all that stuff.
Saw the studio a really great, really great time. Can't believe I forgot
that. Of course that's what it was. Oh, that is so cool.
I had a very similar upbringing. You know, we didn't have a
TV and so and Saturday morning it was a ritual. It was those three
Sugar creaking was a week day, so after school every day was when we
that air where I was living at the time, and this was in Wisconsin,
so we're both in the Midwest areas. So yeah, and I even
got into the I think I've mentioned this on the show before, but I
got into the doing the little I don't even know what they called them,
but they would mail children's Bible. Hour would mail out these little study guides
or questionnaires and you could fill them out and send them back in and they
would grade him, and then Uncle Charlie would autograph him and send them back
to you with a grade on him. And like, yeah, we had
the keys for kids devotionals and everything else. Such good times. It really
really was. Yeah. I remember one time I went to a friend's house
for the weekend, and I came back home to discover that my mother had
neglected to record that week's episodes, and it was not a good time in
the hearth household for a few days. That's hilarious looking back. Of course,
I'm a parent now, I'm sure as she's like I had, I
had a meal prep and housework and other stuff to do. Right, Just
stories are not really you know, life or death situation. But it was
to me, Yeah, oh that's great. Yeah, And I still vividly
remember some of the plot points and even lines from Ranger Bill and stuff like
that. So it's it was so cool just a few years ago to come
across those again because I had no idea that they were still around. And
yeah, hearing all of those again, just just a handful of years ago
was so cool to me. Yeah, well, you know, you you
grew from that place and you now you are not just a consumer of these
these types of content, but you're you're also a writer. You're a voice
talent for audio books, and you've been doing that for quite a while.
You have your your own company producing that kind of content. But what made
you make the decision to move into audio drama? So It is a bit
of a pathway. As I look back now, I see all these things
in my past that I at the time I cansidered failures. But now as
I look back, it was a pathway to a certain place, stepping stones,
I guess you might say. And so back in the day, I
started this little show that I thought, you know, it was originally going
to be like writers would get together and live stream themselves playing video games and
talking about writing. That didn't pan out, but it kind of morphed into
where I would just interview people in the entertainment industry. Well, one day
I interviewed a woman who was a voice actor, and I'd always loved voice
actors and listening There's Mel Blank was a hero of mine. But for some
reason, it never really occurred to me that one could actually do this,
even though there were people doing it. I'm a little slow that way sometimes,
but talking to her made me realize that you could. And so I
got in contact with her and learned from some first steps, built a small
booth in my basement and started doing audiobooks. Well, from there, I
started meeting other people, individuals who were involved with other things like graphic audio.
Some people who had worked on other audio dramas, and a light bulb
turned on for me, like the stuff that I loved as a kid is
still being done, because for a while it seemed that it had kind of
died off, at least here in the US. And now we see that
it's making something of resurgence. But back at this point, this was still
the kind of the beginning of what I would call the revival of audio drama
in the United States. And so, yeah, it just occurred to me
that I could actually do some of these things. And when I was a
kid, my friend and I did some little audio dramas, but they were
just silly, fun things that we would basically just quote Adventures in Odyssey to
each other on tape, essentially all that it was. So yeah, the
pieces started coming together and I could actually make this happen. I started meeting
more people, and people like you and Darby Kern later, and people were
still doing the things that I used to love to do, or at least
they still to listen to and could now do. And that's really how that
started. Is just the stubborn, persistent pursuit of one's dreams. I guess
you might say in a really poetic way, but it took a lot of
detours and a lot of failures. At least at the time, I thought
they were along the way to get there. But again, as I look
back now, I realized it was all stepping stones to get to a place
and finding a community that I consider, for lack of a better term,
my people, people who have the same values as I do, interested in
the same things that I am interested in, and many of whom have the
same background or similar to, or at least can't understand that background that I
had, and that is fairly rare, especially in today's world, and so
that is really meant a lot to me. Yeah. Yeah, Well,
we first connected back in September twenty twenty one, and you said in an
email to me at the time this was this was after a few exchanges,
so this may have been a couple of months later, but you said that
I've loved and dabbled an audio drama for around twenty five years. Can you
tell us anything about those early projects where it was that what you were just
referring to there, or if there were others, like what did you learn
from that process or what sort of stories were you working on? And did
you carry over anything from those experiences to what you're doing today. Yeah.
So there was the my friend and I when we were teens. Young teens
would do stuff like that quote adventures and ostie back and forth to each other.
We did a whole quote of the entire Thanksgiving Carol, and we tried
to add in some sound effects and whatnot. And then later on I did
briefly like, oh, I could do this or that, but I knit.
I didn't have the network, I didn't have the resources, the knowledge,
and for a lot of time long time, did not have the time
to do so I had, you know, there was the gears weren't meshing,
so any starts that I would make in pursuing it were well short lived,
shall we say. But I never lost my interest in it, and
I continued to listen to audio drama and enjoy them there the entire time that
I had another friend I met when I was in my early twenties, and
he had some of the same insu especially in voice acting, not so much
necessarily audio drama, but voice acting and stuff, and we did a few
little things. But again those brief efforts fell vict into the same limitations that
I had before, and the whole thing just got really discouraging because I,
you know, try and try and try, nothing would happen. And I
didn't realize that you needed all these other things, namely a community. You
can't do everything by yourself, and I tend to try to do that a
lot of times to my own detriment. I'm learning getting better at that,
but there were some you know, some false starts along the way, and
that's I think that's what I meant by dabbling, Like I never did produce,
had produced a professional caliber audio drama to that point, but it always
been a fan of them since really before I can't even remember. I don't
remember there being a time an audio drama wasn't part of it. Like I
was still surprised when I meet people who don't know what it is, because
I've never not known audio drama is. It's just it's like again for me,
it's like not knowing movies, you know. But I just am happy
to be a part of a community that in my view anyway, is expanding
and growing and getting new life and new energy behind it. Oh for sure,
Yeah, absolutely, And you know, having that experience of working with
audio already as an audiobook producer and as a voice telling yourself. Those skills
transfer over pretty well into audio drama production, and so I think you had
a little bit of a leg up. I mean you put in the work,
obviously, but you had a little bit of a leg up on somebody
who's approaching audio drama for the very first time and really doesn't know where to
start. You already had some of those skills needed, and after you and
I connected, then then you get connected with Darby Kerrent, and then just
a short time after that, here you are producing a script that he wrote,
the Titanic Wave. Tell us about how that happened. Yeah, well,
you are definitely right about skills transferring over because I remember when I started
approaching people about producing a more professional level audio drama, and so they wanted
to know my producing background. It's like, I don't really have anything,
like oh okay, well a nice talking to you. And then when I
started getting into it and we did turn out something that, you know,
I consider a pretty good production in terms of Titanic Wave. I think that's
kind of surprised people. But I did not start from ground zero there,
so I need that. I think it's fair to put that out there.
So, yeah, when I decided to, I had some more time and
more resources to try to do this. Contact I believe JD. It's like,
I'm looking for somebody, a writer who could maybe turn produce a script,
and he I think you gave me two different names. I don't remember
the other name, but I just chose and I didn't know either of them.
So I just chose a person with what I thought was the coolest name.
That was my scientific approach because I didn't know any you know, anybody
or anything about it. So contacted Darby and he uh and we talked to
exchange a couple of emails to say, well, you know, I could
do this or that, and he's like, I know. I also have
the script that I've been wanting to get produced for a I don't remember how
long years, and it's about the Titanic, and I've always been interested in
the Titanics. It's like, yes, and it to me. So we
made a deal on that to get the rights to produce a script and he
would direct it. And we took advantage a lot of his connections to get
people to acting because he and I knew nobody. So he assembled the cast.
For the most part. I think there was two people I think I
brought to the cast, but otherwise it was all as all him and we
just did it. And I think that jumping into it like I did with
really no knowledge of really what I was doing in terms of on the production
side of an audio drama is kind of indicative of stuff that I have done.
A lot of things that I have I don't know i'd say accomplished,
but done. I should say that's been. How I've done it is just
commit to it, and then you have to follow through. You can't.
You can't get scared and quit because there're too many people are relying on you
and whatnot. So I mean I do that. We like if I'm releasing
a book, A lot of times I'll put it out for pre order before
it's even written, so I have to not get so I now I have
to get it done, you know, so backing myself into a corner to
do it. And so I contacted all these people and made these commitments,
and now I have to produce this audio drama and it needs to be as
good as I can make it at this point. So they're not you know,
because now it's kind of a setting the bar for going forward, and
so that was kind of the strategy. They're just jumping into the pool on
the deep end and trying to make it happen and you know, leave it
up everybody else to the side. How well, how well that worked.
But I had a lot of fun doing it, and we did it in
record time, at least faster, faster than I than most people I think
expected when they said we want to get it done this year, like,
that's probably not going to happen. But we did, so I'm pretty happy
about that. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. I was blown
away at the speed it at which you guys completed it. I mean,
yeah, it was so quick. And I was curious, though, like
what drew you to that story and made you want to go ahead and produce
that, because I know that initially you were looking at doing some classic lit
adaptations at the time. Well, for one thing, it was an original
script or an original story. I mean, I think I think maybe you
and I've talked a bit about this, or you've talked about it on a
podcast. I'm not sure. So I don't want to put words in your
mouth if that's not the case. But a lot of the classic stuff,
at least the main stuff that I know and I'm familiar with, has already
been done and been done by, say the BBC, who in most cases
would do it better than I could have at that point. And so for
my first production, once I got to talking with Darby, I decided that
I don't want to start off producing something that's going to be measured by greatness.
So this was an original because I didn't I was committed to doing it,
but I didn't know how good it would be because I didn't have a
measure of my own skill because I had never done it. And so I
wanted to get something original to where it could at least be judged on its
own merits, whatever they may end up being, and not compared with something
else that had already been done. And a lot of these the classic stuff
that I love most and that would have wanted to do, have not been
done just once, but several times. And so at some point, and
I don't know what that point is, but at some point do we really
need another one? So that was with the two main reasons I think that
I ended up going that route. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense,
And we have talked about that before and the threads in the audio drama Alliance,
because I definitely have opinions on that whole topic, and so yeah,
I think that was a smart move and it makes total sense. So here's
another thing that I've been wondering about though. For you, growing up as
an Odyssey fan, you've heard the name John Campbell probably innumerable times over the
years. What was that like to get him involved in a production that you
were producing? Terrifying, exhilarating, And yeah, I remember I sent him
an email. Did not really think you would right back, by the way,
I didn't you know this John Campbell. It was sort of a mythical
name for me, you know, having heard it every week, you know,
throughout my childhood, you know. And so I emailed and then I
think my phone number was in the email obviously, because he suddenly called and
I looked down. I was getting a call from California, and like,
I didn't know, he's gonna call me. No, I communicate best when
nobody can see her here. So anyway, you got an answer. So
I picked up and he was he was a nice guy. I was like,
no, mister Campbell, this is point, like, you know,
this is a real honor to speak with you. And he just sort of
laughed. He's like, you know, I'm just a guy, That's what
he said. It's like, I'm just a guy. So I kind of
put it all all at ease and U and yeah, great to work with.
The consummate professional. And I teared up multiple times when I was putting
his music into the mix because there were several times where he just nailed it.
Yeah, And you know, I just couldn't. I couldn't believe it,
Like sitting there producing had Adobe audition up and putting John Campbell's and music
into my mix was pretty crazy, very exciting though. And again can't say
enough about how great it is to work with him. He just there's no
drama outside of the drama, and that's great for me because I don't like
drama outside of the drama. Keep it in the story where it belongs and
knows what he's doing, is easy to work with and got it done,
and he was a great He was a big part of why it did get
done because he worked so efficiently and well and did I just and I didn't
know. He's like, you send me your cues and like I don't know
what a que is. I don't know to send you. I was like,
sir, I have utmost just confidence in your ability, just you know,
do what you want to do. And so he worked on him,
mostly without a lot of cues. He just he did it himself and did
a great job. So he was he was kind and gentle and guided me
through the process. It's cool. I like that. I'm going to steal
that. Keep the drama in the drama. We don't need an outside.
Yeah, that's great, that's great. Well, you did move from you
know, the original stuff in your next projects were actual classical literature and very
well known ones. So you jumped into the world of Sherlock Holmes and I
know Sherlockeans have very specific feelings about adaptations of their favorite characters. So you
started with a royal scandal, you have the Speckled Band, and now you're
working on the third installment, the Lost Legacy of Tilly Whim, which I
am super excited about. Did you have any fears or qualms about adapting such
a beloved classic and what made you get over them? Well, the big
thing was that I now was confident I could produce an audio drama that somebody
would actually want to listen to. I'm not saying it's a world class,
but I'm saying that it's listenable. People aren't going to turn green around the
gills when they turn it on, hopefully, And once I get to that
point, once I reach that level of confidence, I can't say I don't
care what people think, because that's not true. I don't think, for
really anybody else you're a psychopath. But I do not let what other people
think affect my actions necessarily because and that's a difference. There's a difference there
and Sherlock call THEMS. It's something I've loved, and I also think that
there are some places where, you know, we could learn more about Sherlock
Holmes with the series that I'm doing. And it is a series. We're
producing them in you know, standalone stories, so you wouldn't necessarily know that
it's a series. But by the time I'm done producing a certain number of
episodes, if you listen to them from beginning to the end of the episodes,
you will see a story arc there. There will be some character changes
there, and you know, I am making some small alteration to even some
of the original stories which I know some people are going to hate, but
that's that's just the way it is. It's mine, Okay, So yeah,
I don't say I don't. I don't care to the point where I
disregard other people's opinions. But this is I'm comfortable saying, this is what
I want to do, and I do think that by the end there will
be an audience for it. Sure there'll be some purists who will complain,
for example, that I change the name of a Scandalembohemia to a Royal Scandal.
I just think, I'm sorry. I think it's a better title.
There's a name of a character, of a villain I change, I think,
and is it that one or the next one? I forget now because
I thought the name was dumb. I know, you change the character.
I think that's probably before, Yeah, because I just didn't like the name.
So there are some small things I'm changing. I think probably I am
producing these dramas will be more enjoyed by the side of the Sherlock holmesy and
fan base that enjoys maybe the Basil Rathbone type stuff that they did a lot
of different things there, and a lot of purists hate that I love Basil
Rathul Nigel Bruce, but I'm trying to kind of go between not quite as
silly as like when I talked to the guy who plays Watson by the way,
it's like a flavor of Nigel Bruce, but not quite as buff of
a buffoon as he was. Kind of pulled it aback a little bit.
So I'm trying to go in between like the absolute serious side and having some
little bit of humor in it now and then as well to put some leaven
in there. But yeah, I'm comfortable with them, and I think that
the an audience exists. And I you know, I've been writing for a
long time and have received thousands of reviews, and of course inevitably some of
those are going to be negative. So I'm not a stranger to criticism and
harsh feedback at all, and that's it hasn't yet stopped me from doing what
I want to do, and I don't anticipated doing it in this case either.
Yeah. Well, and I think you did something really smart. And
then we've talked about this before too, is you started off with some of
the original stories that people are already familiar with, and you tweaked them a
little bit, but essentially they are what Conan Doyle wrote. And then you're
moving into originals. But you did some foreshadowing in the first couple of releases
that kind of build up to this arc that you want to tell in your
originals, and I thought that would just a genius approach. Why did you
choose that approach rather than just starting with an original? How did you arrive
at that? Well, there is a there's a failing of some of these
old literature pieces we have that sometimes the character isn't deep enough. And you'll
far be it from me to criticize, you know, writers like Conan Doyle
and and whatnot. That's that's not what I'm trying to do at this thing,
And partly was a different style at the time. But I'm interested as
a writer and now as a producer and also producer writer, I am a
lot of really interested in character. I think character is the key to the
story. I used to think plot was until I realized that nobody cares what
has happening in the in the plot and until they care to whom it is
happening, And that's character. And for me, if you're going to if
I was going to produce something so well known as Sherlock Holmes. I wanted
to do it a little differently, but not completely wacky like you've seen Sherlock
Colmes is now a vampire or Sherlock Colmes as of this and that. I
mean, that's not the kind of different I wanted. I want to go
different. I wanted to do not better per se, but you know,
deeper. I want to understand more about this. I want to see we've
got Sherlock Colmes who is on the outside coldly calculating character, but we know
that he isn't entirely, but we don't really see that so much in the
original stories. I want to see that a little I'm not going to turn
him into you know, an emotional but humanize him a little bit and have
that relationship between him and Watson be a little bit more dynamic. So that
that's what I want to do. So not saying that the stories. I'm
doing this because the stories could be told better, but I think they could
be told differently in a deeper way, if that makes sense. Yeah,
yeah, I like that. Yeah, that just makes me more excited for
this new one. I can you share anything about when that might be coming
or I want to have it done this year. I can't guarantee it.
If it is not done, then I think it should be done early next
year. But I want to have it done this year. It's sixty percent
written, and the only reason it's sitting stuck at sixty percent is because I've
been so busy with the other project that we're working on. But once I
get through that and get started back on, I don't think it'll take that
long to do. That's so exciting. Yeah, I mean, speaking of
other projects, I mean, you get you've started cranking out all of these
different things, and you have, you know, the the classic tales here
of homes, and then you moved into a kid's show with Chapel and Squeak,
which is another one that absolutely loved. If the listener hasn't heard that
one yet, you definitely need to go look it up. There's a link
in the show notes. Go listen to that. We got the first episode
out already and it's just delightful, and all I have to say about that
one is more pleased. Yeah, that one. That's should be a three
story arc, the Great Church Robbery, So two more coming in that arc
at least that's another thing I would love to have done this year. I
don't know for sure, if not early next. So I'm at the point
I want to get stuff done. It's chop chop Craig time. So yeah,
I want to move And here you are just talking to me instead of
actually writing. I mean, I should just let you go now. I've
already been doing that. Today we had two recording sessions and did some audio
work and some take files of trying to clean those up so we can choose
the takes. And it's been a full day, so I'm ready to take
a break and talk to you. So those are the ones that you've had
that have been released out into the wild. So far am I missing one?
I think that's it right in terms of what's coming out from LRT two,
Sherlock Holmes Tatanic Wave and Chapelain's Squeak. I think so speaking of LRT,
originally you were Legacy Radio Theater and then you switched over to LRTEM Media.
Was that what was the thought process behind that? Partly it was,
well, so I still have Legacy Radio Theater and I think so your audience
can't see this, but there's like a tree and LRT Media as a top
comes down the Legacy Radio Theater and then other podcasts. So Legacy Radio Theater
is now kind of the podcast for long form drama like the Titanic Wave,
and we only have one of those, got it? And then they have
other podcasts and I want to do like the Chapel and Squeak and Heritage and
etcetera, etcetera. So LERG Media is the umbrella under which everything else abides,
and I do it do it that way mostly for marketing purposes, because
I got I got to the point where it's like, oh, I've Legacy
Radio Theater and then I have this, and I have this and this,
and so I felt like I was just promoting a lot of different things where
I just I want everything, wanted everything under one roof. Plus I have
other bigger plans for LRT that will hopefully include other things than simply audio dramas
that you can listen to, resources and whatnot. Okay, got it?
Yeah. I don't know why I never asked you that just directly before,
but it just popped in my head, so I thought he might as well
ask now, Yeah, so you mentioned heritage, so you have an American
history program in the works. You've got the Arthurian Legends, pen Dragon.
I think I saw something mentioned of a show called The Deceiver. I have
no idea what those are about. Are those all still on the roadmap or
I guess where? Where? Where are those projects at? So heritage I
have the first script for is a story of or a story about Molly Pitcher,
So that's on deck. I don't have a date for that one,
but yeah, the script is done, and they'll be shorter episodes. And
that is my reaction to the whole let's destroy our heroes movement. I am
not here to say that our heroes are perfect, but I also see value
in maintaining some respect for the for them and our heritage. Hence the title.
So that in nutshell is that pin Dragon. The first season is almost
written and it is very good. Darby Curne is writing this. So tentatively
our plan is to produce episode one as a pilot and possibly take that to
places like Audible and see if they would be interested in purchasing this. If
they don't, then you know, we'll explore other options. That's the general
idea. Because it's a weighty thing. It would take a lot to produce
this that kind of that project. The Deceiver is really early on in the
stages. It's something I would still like to do, but it's sort of
my concept for it is a combination of some of the scarier Father Gilbert tales
and Frank Peretti combined. Oh okay, spiritual warfare. Who I'm totally intrigued
by that. That sounds amazing. I mean, and that's the other thing
too. You you have great skills with the with the promotional graphics that you
put out and the graphic for that one. It was very small in the
in the overall artwork that you put out, but what I could see of
it, it looked it would just it just pulled me right in. I'm
like, oh my goodness, I gotta know what this is. Yeah,
so frightening, scary chills, kind of like the Father you want to say,
Father Brown with Chester sent Father Gilbert. The episode I think is the
Gray Lady, we're here, the knife that always gave me chills. That's
the kind of thing I would like to go for at some point with The
Deceiver. So yeah, I as symbol a team for that, that would
be great. So all these things are still on board. I haven't abandoned
any of them. It's just a matter of what to do first. Yeah,
so many irons in the fire. Oh goodness. Well, okay,
So one of the main reasons why I wanted to have you on at this
time is because you have put together a team and you guys are cranking away
at a series on the character of Robin Hood and I'm super super excited about
that. There's there's a lot of progress you guys have made already on this
one. But before we get to that, because you're going to give us
an exclusive, you haven't even announced yet who all was in involved in this
one, So we're gonna get to that in a couple of minutes. But
I wanted to ask you real quickly because you have been putting out these writing
tips for a little while now as a podcast, and I think you also
post a video versions on YouTube and I've been listening to those and man,
they're so great. They're just a little bite size, you know, chunks
of writing information, and I wanted to see if I could put you on
the spot and have you just toss out It doesn't have to be something that
you've already covered, but you know, two quick tips for the writers in
the audience. Two quick tips. Number one, pay as much attention to
your bad guy as you the good guy. The protagonist is really only as
good as your antagonist. In fact, sometimes it's good to have the antagonists
be a little stronger than the protagonist because that's you get a little drama there,
because the audience like, how is he going or is she going to
do this? It looks impossible David and Goliath, you know. And the
other thing is is something I mentioned earlier. Pay attention and two character.
We need to know who these people are. Nobody is going to care what
is happening until they care about the person to whom this stuff is happening.
Get to know these people. Spend some time write a dossier of of your
main character, and you know, put down everything you can think of.
Get to know them so well that they are like a friend to you.
You may not use a lot of this stuff, but the better you know
your character, the easier it's going to be to write about that. A
lot of people say I have writer's block. I don't know where to go.
And one common reason, not the only reason, but a common reason
for what people call writer's block is they don't know their character well enough,
and so they don't know what should happen to them, and they don't know
how they would react in any given circumstance. So that would be two things.
Pay attention to your antagonist and get to know your characters. If you
want more amazing stuff like that, check out the link in the show notes.
Because this was entirely off the top of the head. I gave him
no more whatsoever, and that was all in real time. That is not
edited. He came up with that immediately. So this guy knows whereof he
speaks. Oh goodness, yeah, that that is so true, because I've
yeah, I've played around with some of those. You know, you can
find these writing tools online where they'll give you a form or you write down
all this stuff about your character and even stuff that you're like, what why
should I care what their favorite food is? Or you know, just all
these random little things. But as you said, the more you understand about
them, that fact doesn't have to show up. That's yeah, you don't
have to use all of that. It's just it helps because you understand all
of these things about them, and then that helps you understand how they're going
to respond, not just even the antagonists, but to the any situation that
they come across, even if it's an interaction in a very mundane, you
know, every day sort of setting in the scene. All of that stuff
matters, The details matter, they do. The same goes for setting.
Well, first of all, setting can itself be a character at times,
but getting doing research on your setting, getting to know the setting, like
if you haven't been there personally or lived there, do enough research on that
location to where you know what it is, what it feels like, what
it smells like, what it sounds like, and use those senses in the
writing. And again, you're not going to use most of what you do
and what you glean in your research process, but the more you know about
it, the more your reader will believe you as you're writing. And even
in fiction, of course, it's if your reader doesn't believe you, they're
not going to follow you through the story. They're I'm not going to suspend
that disbelief long enough to enjoy your story. So they have to believe that
you know what you're talking about. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, The
research is so vital. I've been working on I don't know if I'll ever
finished this. I get too many speaking of too many irons in the fire.
But I've been working on a novel for a few years and there's this
one particular scene. It's set in a particular city, and there's one scene
where the character visits a bank. So I'm actually on Google street View walking
down the streets of this town and looking at the adjacent businesses and the way
that looks, and the front of the bank, and oh, there's a
parking lot behind the bank. And I'm noting all of this stuff because yes,
maybe I went a little bit overboard, but I just felt like it
made sense. I even looked up the demographic information for that city because I
wanted to use a specific race of character in this scene, and I wanted
to see does that even make sense in the real world with you know,
And so I think that stuff is so so vital. Oh, Google street
View and the Internet is just well, yeah, because you can do as
you describe. If your character goes to a certain restaurant in a foreign country,
you can find that restaurant and look at their menu and find that they're
eating something they actually serve. I mean, it's just it's just incredible what
you can do. So yeah, you were absolutely correct. Yeah. Okay,
one final thing before we move on to Robin Hood. So you announced
just a little bit ago another project, Drama Escapes. Can you tell us
what that is? Are these audio dramas? Are these fullcast audio books?
Where does this fit into the LRT media Craighart world? So it's definitely separate
from from Lart Drama Escapes. As a partnership, I'm in with another narrator,
Stephanie Emmett Parker, who's been in some lergy dramas by the way,
but this is a different company with her that will be fullcast audio books.
So it's essentially the entire book is being read as an audiobook, just by
different people with music and sound effects including very similar to graphic audio, trying
very much exactly the same as graphic audio. And one reason, well two
reasons I wanted to separate the two Drama Escapes and LRT is first of all,
these will not be true audio dramas. I don't I don't consider what
graphic audio does to be true audio drama. That's not not a criticism,
it's just a different thing. And the second thing is is because I don't
will not have full control over it, and will be taking in clients.
I will not necessarily be able to guarantee that everything that's produced by Drama Scapes
will be family friendly, and I do want to keep LRT media family friendly
in the sense of certain aspects of it. Now, if we do a
lot of things like Deceiver, it'll certainly be scary and may not be appropriate
for all ages, but it will be largely family friendly, dependent on how
parents feel about their kids. Listen to that, I think you know what
I mean. Yeah, And again, I won't be able to guarantee that
with Drama Scapes because I don't entirely own it. So there's that one,
got it all right? Well let's go. Let's get to the main topic,
Robin Hood. So originally you had announced it was called Honor among Thieves.
Now I'm seeing the title rising to Honor. Is there a change or
is that an episode title or what is that's a change? Because Dungeons Dungeons
and Dragons movie took it. Okay, Okay, I think Honor a month
the Thieves was like the subtitle of the movie or something like that. And
Jonathan Cook was like, oh, so we're just like, you know what,
we're just going to change it. And I actually like what we came
up with later anyway, because it fits more the the arc of the story
and what we're trying to do. So that's the reason for the name change.
Got it Okay, Well, so you mentioned Jonathan. So you're partnering
with Eternal Future Productions Alicia Hanson and Jonathan Cook on this, and they're writing
and directing, and and you're writing as well. I'm assuming I know you
guys are having writing writers meetings regularly these days. We are all writing,
directing and producing together. Yes, it's been quite interesting and fun, and
I cannot say enough good about how easy it is to work with and Jonathan.
An arrangement like that could be a nightmare, but in this case,
it has not been a nightmare and it has been a pleasure and a joy
to do. So I just wanted to say that right right off the bat.
So we're all sharing in the three main tasks they're the righting, directing,
and producing, and it's it's been going really well. I could not
be happier. And John Campbell's coming back to do the music right Yes,
yep, I emailed him. I was like, it's me the guy who
doesn't know what he's doing, and of course, very gracious is like,
I'm in so very happy to have him back on more very excited. So
you're you're working on a full season of this show and you said that you're
you posted a while back you said, I think we've kept the core story
but also made a couple of interesting changes as well as delved deeper into the
characters. There are some good lines, sharp zingers, and just enough humor
to help ease the heartbreak. Can you spill anything about what that's alluding to
or can you a little so I can't say what the heartbreak is, but
have your tissues handy. One of the changes, and this is the one
change that I will say, and I don't think it's a huge spoiler,
because you find out very early on, like the first episode, and that
is that Robin is also the sheriff what and so we see that's part of
the arc that we see he is in a situation now where so Robin,
Prince John and Marion have known each other for years, grew up together essentially,
but now they are at this crossroads where Richard is gone, the stabilizing
force in the kingdom. He's offered to fight the crusades. Prince John is
in charge and is falling prey to the darkness. And so he's going one
way and Marian has gone another way, and Robin finds himself in the middle.
Wow. And so that's the central part of the store that we are
exploring here in season one, Like what is Robin going to do? There
is a central issue that he faces where he has to make a decision.
And again, a lot of the season is what are you going to do
about this? Are you going to go against Prince John, who is your
longtime friend, your boss has the power to have you put to death?
Or are you going to strike out in faith essentially and embrace the light that
Marian is presenting to you. And so that that's the core of the story
there, and I want to talk about getting deeper in character. It's partly
that, but also again as who are these people like? In the old
stories of robin Hood and even most of the audio dramas I've heard that have
been done about robin Hood, they don't really talk about that. We get
maybe a little bit of how Robin came to be an outlaw, but we
don't really understand the characters. Prince John, we don't really understand. We
just know that he's bad. But why easy bad? You know? So
there's just there's more conflict that decisions are more difficult, and even with Prince
John, we're trying to present a picture of that he could go either way.
He could choose the light or he could choose the dark. Which way
is he going? And we kind of we know which way is ultimately going
to going to go, But he has that choice, as we all do
in life. We have a choice. It's not predetermined whether we're going to
be good or bad for you know, I know that's simplifying things, but
I think you know what I mean. We all have that personal choice and
we wanted to give that to John as well, and again Robin who does
them in conflict? But you see all these things swirling around him in the
court. We have a scheming treasurer and a steward. We have well I
can't say anymore, but a few or their characters and that we're playing against
each other and their actions depend on somebody else, and they all have their
own agendas. It's it's really fun and there's humor in it as well,
so we don't take everything too seriously. But I gotta tell you that in
our sessions when we were writing this, and we met every Friday throughout the
writing process and hammered out a few pages, hopefully an episode or more,
but not always, and just the highs and the lows of the whole process,
not working with each other, but just the emotional toll of the episodes
themselves, you know, funny things and then terrible things. It was one
of the best writing experiences that I have ever had. And it was just
yeah. So we would get on a call and I would fire up final
draft and share my screen and we were just right and share ideas and bouncings
back and forth. And that would not work in every in every circumstance,
in all companies, but it certainly did in this case. Wow, that's
really interesting. I don't think I've ever heard of such a collaborative scripting process
from anyone before. That's that's really interesting. Huh. I don't even know
what to say. That's so unique. Yeah, but that's really cool.
It's really cool. Yeah, So you said that there's going to be an
ongoing arc across the season, and then there's you know, the little developments
throughout each episode. Each episode you said it was going to be about ten
minutes. Is that correct on average? I would say, yeah, So
how many episodes in season one? There are eight? We originally planned on
ten, and as we approached I don't know was at the end of episode
seven, I messaged Jonathan and Alicia's like, crazy idea, I think we
might be done by the end of episode because it was just the ending point
was it felt right? Because in the next season, in which we do
plan on producing, unless everybody hates this so much, somebody get death threats
or something. But at the end of you know this, we find Robin
at a crucial point where he's made a decision of some kind, and then
in season two will be largely I believe, we witness the results or consequences
of these decisions. So season one to kind of be the setup. We
learned the characters, we learned the conflicts, we learned what's at stake,
and then in season two we'll start to see some of those things play out.
So you're just gonna leave us all on a cliffhanger. At the end
of there is some resolution there is some resolution, but there's also tantalizing hints
of things to come as well. Oh man, this is so exciting.
So what have you learned about this this character from your research that you didn't
know before going into it? You know, not a lot, because to
be honest, there wasn't a lot about him as a character. I mean
that was kind of my big beef about it, Like, I don't really
know who Robin Hood is, Like, I know, you know, Rob's
from the rich and gives to the poor. So that was suggested he's a
generous and person that kind of puts the ends justify the means kind of character,
which we kind of we're kind of pulling back from that aspect. I
wasn't really crazy about that, So we're changing a few little things in there.
But again, that was kind of my big complaint with Robin Hood is
that we didn't know enough about him, and so throughout this process we have
begun to learn about him, but through our own creations. So I'm not
going to have the hubrist to say that our interpretation is the interpretation of who
Robin Hood is or should have been, but I do think it's a powerful
one. Well, are you ready to let the listener in on who is
going to be playing these iconic characters. I am all right, So Darby
Kern is doing a couple of voices of the guard and the Royal Harold who
was at the archery tournament. Okay, there's a character who is not an
original Robin Hood character but name of Cyril, and that is played by Duffy
Webber. Cyril's wife, a domineering character who makes Cyril's life miserable, played
by Kiera O'Brien. Oh wow, did a great job. Everybody did.
Everybody has done a great job. We're doing this final recording session tomorrow and
then it's wow. Dominic Tracey is doing is playing the part of the servant
and the court who interacts with Cyril. Stephanie Emmett Parker is playing a woman
at the church who meets with Fryar Chuck a w Miller who's been who is
Watson and Sharlock Holmes plays a character named Reeves who is the treasurer who is
also a plotting no good character in the court. Character John Plowman played by
Daniel Cross, highly emotional character and he absolutely nailed it. Oh wow,
he's so good. So good. Yeah, it was weird, practically all
in tears. Friar Tuck, who is a bit different than the Friar Tuck
that a lot of people would have known from the originals, but he's still
Friary Tucky and is played by Andy Harvey, who just, oh, just
absolutely crushed that role, absolutely crushed him. When I heard that, I
was so excited because you sent me some of these beforehand and I saw that,
and I'm like, oh, that is perfect casting. He and I
haven't heard a second of it, and I know he's gonna nail back.
Yeah. He plays kind of a father figure to Robin, and he just
I just oh, I can't say enough enough good about how he did.
Character of Elizabeth, who has made Marian's lady in waiting, played by Stacy
Bradshaw. Okay, Prince John played by where there's sketchy character named Craig Hart.
So we'll see how he does. I don't know. I don't have
high hopes for that, but we'll see. Maybe you'll pull it off.
Made Marian played by Alicia Hanson okay. And the title role of Robin Hood
played by Jonathan Cook. Wow. And they're in music by John Campbell and
there you go. Wow, this is going to be such a great show.
So this is just for this first season right that. You know,
we may hear other characters, this will show up sometime down the road.
But this is what you've got locked in for this first season, locked in
and recorded. How exciting, man, I am so looking forward to this.
I know, I know you've just wrapped up recording, so you probably
have no idea on a release at this point. But whenever this comes out,
I'm I'm there for it. Man. Well, it is going to
be this year. Unless John Campbell comes back and says I can't get it
done, can't get the music written until like December fifteenth, it is going
to be done this year. So wow. So do you have any idea
on the release schedule? Are you going to drip it out or are you
just going to drop the whole thing out and for people to binge? Partly
depends on how quickly we get it done. If we have time to release
it episodically over a few weeks, that's what I want to do, so
ideally, you know, two months. If we only have a month,
then I may do it two episodes a week. Gone. You know,
Monday and Thursday or something like that. But yeah, episodic is my preferred
method for this particular particular one. So but yeah, we're I mean,
I want to have the voice tracking done by the end of next week,
and once that is done, it's off to John Campbell. And once once
he gets back, it's sound design time, which we can work on as
episodes are released. You know, we don't necessarily we haven't done all the
same time. So but I'm very optimistic and like I say, that's it
will be done this year. Unless John Campbell can't do it or unless I
die, it's not there. You go. So you're doing post on this
one as well. We'll be splitting that up. That's parts one of why
I'm so confident. It won't be just me doing the posts, will be
you know, as we've done everything else, Jonathan, Alicia and I will
be splitting up the duties and tag team in it. Wow. Man,
I'm so excited. You know, this is so well, this is what
I've been wanting to see in this space, is people coming in and just
coming in with some amazing ideas and just making some cool stuff. And you
and Eternal Future Productions, You guys have both just done it. I mean
they started with their their standalone Christmas show, then they moved into Pirate Tiers,
and then now they've got all kinds of other projects coming venture and another
Resurgence and all this. And I'm just so excited about this time in in
audio drama because you guys are putting out such good quality stuff. It's awesome.
Yeah, I'm I'm really excited as well. How the Audio Drama Space,
but specifically the you know, family friendly audio Drama Space is doing with
the Audio Drama Alliance Eternal Futures and you know LRT and you know, and
this is the sort of collaborative efforts. I would love to see more of
this kind of stuff happen. Again, I don't think it's for everybody,
but if you get a team together who can do it, then it really
can take the load off of one person, first of all, and secondly,
you're not alone doing it. I mean, writing is such a solitary
thing. If you can find a team to work with, then absolutely,
you know do it. And one of the things that I when I started
getting into the space a little bit more is everybody is doing their own thing,
which is perfectly fine. I tend to be alone ranger quite frankly,
so I understand that. But at the same time, we're all trying kind
of trying to do the same thing with it. You know, get this,
you know, quality audio dramas out there that the family can listen to.
And so, yeah, this type of collaboration I would love to see
more of that. We're using kind of a laser approach instead of the shotgun
approach where just put everything out there and see where it goes. You know,
and I'm talking about more things than just producing. I'm talking about promotion
and you know, everything we can do to get things out there. That's
part of the future plan, hopefully for the l LRT media at large,
is trying to gather a lot of the stuff under one roof as kind of
a hub where there are resources and dramas and places where people to promote and
all that kind of good stuff, because there's so much potential. There's so
much potential, but I think a lot of times, you know, people
get overwhelmed and resources are limited, and it can get pretty lonely and you
start to wonder if anybody cares and if anybody's listening, because having an audience
and having other people work with you and and cheering you on, which is
one thing that's great about the ADA, by the way, but having that
maybe even in a larger sense, can put some air under the wings of
a creator, like people are actually listening. I'm not just shouting into the
void, because that's exhausting, and at some point you wonder, what's the
point. Yeah, I would love to see this type of thing expand and
grow and people take advantage of it. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, And
we didn't even talk about you know, you working on the most important passover
from from the ADA, and then another project that's going to be coming later
which we can't talk about yet publicly, but I'm super excited about and I'm
pretty sure you are as well. Absolutely, But there's there's just some exciting
things happening, and I'm so glad that you're right here in the mix in
this industry and just putting out some high quality stuff. And thank you for
taking time to come on the show and share about all of these projects that
you've already worked on and things that are yet to come. And I know
that this community is excited for for what's coming, and so so thank you
very much, Greg. It was my pleasure to be here absolutely anytime.
Well, I might have to take you up on that. We might.
We might just have to do this again testing one, two, three,
testing. Let's just me talking. I do that a lot. Where's my
speech? How long are you going to board with it? That's what I
want to talk about. So here's what I'm thinking. This segment is going
to be about the Seneca's problem. I've been hesitant to talk about this for
fear that it would be perceived as as just a big griping session, and
I do not want that. But after talking this over privately with a few
folks, I decided that this is the best way to bring this up.
But what please understand where my heart is. I love this industry, and
my goal with ATC and the Seneca's is to encourage the creators, engage the
fan base, and grow the reach of this medium. So I wanted to
say at the very outset that we have been very intentional about these awards from
the beginning. It was in planning for years before we ever actually started or
actually publicly launched, and we didn't do anything lightly. We were very deliberate,
and yes we have made a few mistakes. There were some things we
had to correct early on in our process, but overall, I think it
has been a success and it has done what we had set out to do,
and that is to bring a recognition to the quality work that is being
done in this industry. But that said, there have been several things about
the awards that have not been ideal and they have not really improved over time.
So due to those issues persisting and my doctor's advice, it is time
to reevaluate things and look at the future of these awards. So my health
has been deteriorating for a few years now, been dealing with a few different
conditions, and my doctor has told me that I have got to reduce the
stress in my life because it is it has been very detrimental to my health.
And while it's certainly not the only one, one of the stresses in
my life has been running these awards, and that is partly because for about
six to eight months of the year I am working on the awards in some
form, even though the actual judging and voting period is only a couple of
months, and then we have the event on one night. It really is
an insane amount of work for a ninety minute show once a year, and
if you listen to the broadcast this year, I talked about how much I
enjoy doing the awards, and I meant everything thing I said about loving it
and always having fun. That is true. But there is also the other
side, and that is the amount of time and effort that has to be
put into it in order to make it run smoothly and be a success and
be enjoyable for people to listen to. And so there's you know, the
sponsor negotiation time and searching for sponsors every year, trying to reach out to
find brands to work with. It takes a lot of time working on who
we're going to have speak and communicating with them to get that all taken care
of, and all of that, all of these things, not to mention
the actual judging and reviewing of all of the productions. All of that takes
a lot of time. And in case you don't know, Audio Theater Central
and Portulite Family Media in general is not my full time job. I actually
have a day job that I work at least forty hours every week on and
so all of this stuff has to be done in the evenings and weekends,
so all that extra time, it does have an effect. And I don't
want this to sound like a begging for money segment. That's not what this
is. But I'm just trying to be as transparent as possible. Since we're
talking about this issue, I had to address this part of it. The
awards are not profitable and it does cost a lot of money. The sponsorship
dollars that come in have never completely covered the cost of the awards, and
there are a lot of them. You know, it's not just the trophies
themselves, but that is a big part of it, but there's also the
postage, the packing materials for the trophies, and the graphic design, and
website hosting and domain and the chat software and all of those things cost money.
And all of these costs have increased over the six years that we've been
running the awards, and we've been asked nearly every single year to add categories,
but that just costs more time and more money, and we're just not
able to do that because, as I said, the awards are not profitable
and it's it's coming out of my personal finances. So that's where things are
with that aspect of it, and then there is the actual reviewing of submissions.
Every year, we weighed through hours and hours of submissions that just don't
follow the rules. I attempted to prescreen the submissions myself for the first few
years, but it just got to be so many I could not I could
not actually handle it, and I had to bring in help the last couple
of years to prescreen the submissions because so many of them do not follow the
rules in terms of the content guidelines in particular, and so that has just
been something that we've had to deal with every single year, and so I've
thought about what can we do about that? And I think one of the
reasons why that has been a big issue is from the beginning, we were
intentional about not wanting to charge people to enter their productions. I didn't want
to make it hard for small producers to participate. And so since there is
no entry fee, people can just submit whatever they want. And so I
think a lot of people just don't take the time to read all the rules,
and since it doesn't cost them anything to submit, they just send it
on Either that or their intentionally trying to slip something by us. I don't
know, you know, I don't know all of the people that submit every
year, there are new people that I've never heard of, and so that
is a concern. It takes a lot of time that is frankly wasted going
through these productions because they're not following the content guidelines and so they're not going
to be eligible at all, and so we have to weed them out.
And I'm not talking about production values. I'm talking about actual the content in
the stories, which we explicitly state on the website what is not allowed.
So that has been an issue, a recurring issue every single year. So
how do we fix that? Do we start charging people to enter? Is
that what we have to do? Again? I didn't want to make this
something where it was difficult for small producers who don't have a lot of funds
that they're disposal to be able to participate. The other thing is we have
given the trophies for free. We don't charge people for the trophies unless they
want a duplicate one, if the production house wants a second copy, or
if there is a certain credit that is shared by more than one person.
We have always given one trophy for every category for free. Do we need
to actually start charging for the trophies. It would help with the financial aspect
of it, but again that might make it less desirable, or it might
make it a challenge for smaller producers to be able to get a trophy,
and so I've been hesitant to do that. And another aspect is that it
hasn't really grown like we'd hoped. We intentionally set it up to be even
though it wasn't a live in person event, we intentionally set it up to
be an event. It happens on a particular day, and we wanted it
to be sort of a gathering point in the year for the industry and for
big time audio drama fans to come and be able to chat. That's why
we've put an emphasis on having the chat room there, because if you're just
going to be listening to something alone in your home, there's not much draw
for that. But with people there being able to talk and interact in the
chat room, it's always a lot of fun. And the people that do
show up seem to really enjoy it, and I know that we do as
well, So it's always fun. But it hasn't really grown all that much
in terms of the live audience. Only a very small percentage of the ATC
community comes. Yes, many of you listen later, and that's great too,
That's awesome. I love it the people actually listen after the fact.
But I would love love for it to grow and have more people show up
to the live event. So, whether you are in the industry or if
you're an audio drama fan, what would it take for you to actually come
to the live stream? Do you have any interest in that at all?
Now, I should also mention that the number of people that are in the
chat room also does not reflect the number of people that actually tune in live,
so not everybody joins the chat so even that is a small percentage of
the people that actually tune in live. But many people have asked us to
do a live event, an actual in person event, but this very thing
has always held me back from even really pursuing it, aside from the fact
that that financially that's an impossibility at this stage. But if people don't even
show up to a virtual event, why would they come to an in person
one? If you know. So, again, I don't want this to
sound like a big griping session. This is I'm just putting all the cards
on the table because I want to hear from you, particularly you if you
are in the audio drama industry, but also from the fans. You know,
awards shows in general are not always just something that are viewed by the
industry. We know historically millions of people have viewed award shows on TV,
and it's definitely it's not just the industry, folks, it is the fans
of that particular art form, whether that's music or movies or TV or whatever
it is. So this event has always been trying to bridge both the industry
and the fan community. So again, we'd love to know your thoughts on
the live event. Should we discontinued the live element, should we just start
doing it as a normal podcast episode. And then one of the bigger things
is some segments. Now this is by no means all or even the majority,
but some segments of the industry have not been responsive to the awards at
all. Numerous times over the years, we've had nominees who just have not
even responded at all to our communications or have really just dismissed them as as
if they were of no value at least that's how it came across to us.
And then there have been times when people even get angry for not being
nominated or things like that. And so, again, this is not the
majority of the industry. I have heard from lots of you that you appreciate
what we're doing and that feedback is valuable to me, and we do take
that into account. So I'm not trying to call out anybody in particular or
say if you have let me know at some point that you appreciated that I
have not taken your feedback into consideration, because that's not the case. But
again, there there's a segment of the industry that just does not seem to
care at all. And so I'm wondering, how do we rectify this?
What do we do about this? Do we just keep things going as they
are? I don't know. And I think one of the factors in that
is that from the beginning, we allowed committee members to be able to submit
productions on behalf of producers because we knew at the beginning, especially nobody really
knew who we were or what we were trying to do, and we didn't
want to just have one or two submissions that would kind of make things pointless.
Those one or two would just get every award, right, because you
need to have enough participants to make it worthwhile. And so we knew that
because this was a brand new effort, that we weren't going to be able
to get the word out to the entire industry and get everybody on board and
things like that, especially in the early days. So we've always had this
option for committee members to be able to submit on behalf of producers. So
of course that does mean that sometimes productions get submitted where the producer has no
idea until you know, if they get a nomination, then we will send
out a notification. So does that mean should we no longer allow committee members
to put forward shows? Because in some of these cases, these are the
people who aren't responding. So again, I don't want this to sound like
a big complaining session, but this is just the reality of where things are,
and I maybe this is a total mistake to be this transparent. I
don't know. I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to move
forward. And I need your help because this is for you, the audio
drama industry. Does this industry even want the awards as a whole? Does
the industry want this? Is this something that you feel is valuable? So
I want your feedback again, particularly if you are a creative in this industry,
whether you're an actor or writer, sound designer, whatever your role,
if you're in this industry, please share this with your colleagues and contacts so
we can get some direction on where we need to go in the future,
because things cannot continue as they are. All of these things that I've mentioned
are elements that collectively make the Senecas. While still a lot of fun and
I love doing them, they are a lot of stress. And again,
because of my health, I have got to do some things to help alleviate
some of that, and this is one of the things that I do have
control over, and so I have to reevaluate things, and so I need
your help. I want your suggestions. Should we start charging for submissions,
Should we start charging for trophies? Would you be willing to pay for either
of those things if that is the direction we go. Should we discontinue committee
submissions and require producers to submit their shows and only the shows that get submitted
are the ones that get considered. I'm open to these options, and if
you have other suggestions for solutions to any of these issues that I've raised,
I am open to hearing those, Please please let me know so you can
contact me here through the ATC contact information or the contact information on the Senecas
dot org. Please please please get in touch and let me know what you
think where should we go in the future. And lastly, I'll just say
this. I know this is not the most prestigious award out there. This
is not the Emmys or the Oscars or the Grammys, but the Synecas are
the only juried awards specifically for audio drama when we first began the process.
Now there is the UK International Radio Drama Festival, which has an awards element,
but I think it's only a couple of categories and I don't really know
how they're selection process works. They started in twenty seventeen also, but again
I don't believe they have the full range of categories, you know, all
of the production categories and the acting categories and all of that. But for
sure, we are the only ones for clean audio drama specifically. You know,
there are lots of other audio awards. There's audiobook Awards and podcast awards
and all of those. Many of those have categories or have a category for
audio drama. But in terms of one specifically for audio drama, there aren't
that many options, and so I want to keep going. I love doing
this, and I've heard from so many of you that you do appreciate it
and it is something that you value. But if it is time to stop,
then so be it. But I want to know what you think,
what you want, and so I'm putting the ball in your court as the
industry professionals, and again I would like to hear from the audio drama fans
as well. So I know that was a lot, and I apologize if
that was not really what you wanted to hear, but it's where I am
at this point, and so we've got to figure out where to go in
the future, and I need your help to do that. I know that
I have kind of rambled a little bit, and it's primarily because I've been
very nervous about even talking about this because I don't know how it's going to
be received. But I'm doing the best I can, and so please let
me know what you think. So what are you think of the show?
Please leave your message after the chalone. Hi Audia Theater Central. Hey guys,
this is awesome preach. How about jd Roy Andrew my name is Victoria.
Now, yesterday I received a letter from a big band. No time
to travel, I've got an emails. I've got a package for me today.
No, it's actually just your mail. All right, it's time for
some feedback, and we've got one entry here from easy and he sent in
a text message to the feedback line which is six two three six eight eight
two seven seven zero, and he was asking about radio spirits. So he
said, JD, I found something on the internet today that is going to
bring back an insane amount of memories for you. And he sent a link
to some episodes of the radio show When Radio Was, which was hosted by
Stan Freeburg back in the day. And he found some episodes of the show
when Stan was hosting it, and they were available on archive dot org.
And I have mentioned in the past on the show how I used to listen
to that radio show and loved, love hearing Stan Freeberg present these shows.
That was one of the things that really got me into old time radio.
Now that show still does air on radio stations around the country and perhaps even
elsewhere. I don't know for sure, but it is of course not hosted
by Stan Freeberg anymore. As he passed away in twenty fifteen. But it
is produced by Radio Spirits, which is a company that sells recordings of old
time radio shows. And so easy asked what my opinion is on these kinds
of shows being distributed, and he said that Radio Spirits does still exist,
but it's nowhere near what it used to be. They were doing an incredible
business back then. But how do you feel about the shows being around?
All of those old shows are widely available on the internet, so I don't
even really know how they stay in business. And that they there, I'm
assuming he's meaning Radio Spirits, and he continues, the people who created them
have long since died, so there's really no one to pay. Just very
curious as to your perspective because you've always said, and I agree that content
creators need to be paid, But what about things that were designed to be
broadcast and broadcast only. So, yes, a lot of those shows were
broadcast out on the airwaves, and they had discs that recorded them, but
they weren't really necessarily intended to be widely distributed back then. In the early
days, well, a company like Radio Spirits and there are a few others,
started locating all of those old discs and transcribing them and cleaning up the
audio and then reselling them. So what are my thoughts on listening to these
old time radio shows for free when I'm always advocating for paying the creators.
Well, yeah, in this case, you know, it's a little bit
more murky. I know that there are some people who claim that they are,
you know, public domain, or that the recordings themselves are still under
copyright, and it's only the scripts that are in public domain, and there's
all. I don't really know all of the illegalities of that, but he
is absolutely right that many of these shows are available online for free, and
there are collectors out there who find these disks and they will transfer them to
digital media and distribute them. There are thousands of programs out there that you
can listen to for free, and many of them are on archive dot org
or the Internet archive. And so I don't necessarily think that it's it's a
problem to go and listen to those and even collect them, because these networks
kind of let them go for a long time. Now. I know that
a company like Radio Spirits does claim to have ownership of some of these recordings,
and I don't know the legality of their claims, I really don't understand
it, because again, these are everywhere on the internet, so I just
don't know how valid their claims are. But I will say that if somebody
purchases some of the Radio Spirits products, and you know, if they're on
CD or whatever, and they rip those files and then start distributing them,
that is piracy because you purchased a product from Radio Spirits and now you are
distributing them. Because the draw of what Radio Spirits does is they remaster and
clean the audio of these old recordings, so it's not what you would actually
get if you just listen to these old records. And so that's where they
are adding their own element or whatever to the product, and that's what they're
that's what they're selling to you. And so that was the draw, and
that's how they're still in business because they are offering you cleaner versions of the
audio. Now. I supported Radio Spirits for many years. I purchased a
lot of their products and they were good, good, and I think they
might be one of the largest libraries that are available for purchase of remastered audio
for old time radio. But there is another player in this space, and
that is Radio Archives. The quality of their stuff is much much better.
They use state of the art technology that absolutely sounds so much better, and
they just do some really, really great work, and so I highly recommend
checking those out because the quality is so much bet better than what you can
find on some website if you just google some old time radio show and find
something there to listen to. So I think there is still a place for
these companies like Radio Spirits or Radio Archives. Radio Spirits has, as I
said, a large library. Radio Archives is smaller, but they are growing.
They're adding titles all the time, and if you want superior quality,
then that's the place to go. Radio archives dot com. Now, if
your question was in regards to the When Radio Was show in particular, because
the link that you sent easy was to a listing on archive dot org for
a couple of episodes of When Radio Was Now, those are the actual property
of Radio Spirits because they produce that show. They are presenting these old time
radio episodes, but within the context of another show, and so yes,
they do still technically own those shows. Now. It is still little murky
in this case though, because if you go to the website for the radio
show when Radio was dot com and you go to the archive, they only
have a few episodes there, and only just a few of the recent ones.
So I actually did reach out to them and ask them about the archive
of the When Radio Was broadcasts and how can you access them and do they
have them available? And I looked in their store and I didn't see any
episodes of the show available, And so I don't know if they're not making
them available to purchase. If you happen to come across some old episodes from
the nineties, then I don't I mean, if they're not selling them,
I don't know. That's kind of a thing where you're going to have to
make your own call as to whether that whether you think that is a moral
call that you're comfortable making. So I can't help you on that one.
So the whole issue of old time radio is a little bit murky, But
you do have some valid points that there are a lot of shows out there
available for free. You just google it and you'll find them out there somewhere.
But again, if you want better quality, then you need to go
to someplace like Radio Spirits or radio archives to purchase those remastered versions. So
I don't know if I helped at all, or if I answered your question,
or if I just made things more confusing, but that's where I stand
on that issue. Thank you so much. Easy for the feedback, and
if you would like to get in touch with us, you can definitely do
that by emailing feedback at audio Theatercentral dot com or comment on the show notes,
and you can of course send a text or give us a call at
six two three six eight eight two seven zero and leave a voicemail there.
Well. Thank you again to Craig Hart for coming on the show. Really
appreciated it. Love to talking with you. I'm really looking forward to everything
that LRT Media has coming up. If you would like to stay up to
date on everything that's going on with ATC, join the ATC Insiders. That's
our newsletter. You can click the button on our homepage to join the list
and we'll email you about everything that we're up to. Whenever we have something
cool to share, we will be sure to let you know. Well the
show notes for everything that we've talked about. All the links are there at
audio theater Central dot com Slash one eighty four. I'll talk to you next
time. Thank you so much for listening. Hi, This is David from
Vancouver, Canada. Audio Theater Central is a production of Porchlight Family Media.
The theme music was composed by Sam Avandanio. The show is produced and edited
by JD. Sutter. Find the website at Audio theater Central dot com.
What did the Big Flower Say to the Little Flower? Hey there, Bud.
Quartz Light Familymedia your source for family centered content. Quartz Light Familymedia dot com