1 00:00:28,359 --> 00:00:35,479 Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from Boise, Idaho. This 2 00:00:35,719 --> 00:00:39,679 is your host, Adam Graham. If you have a comment, email it 3 00:00:39,719 --> 00:00:46,479 to me Box thirteen at Greatdetectives dot net, Follow us on Twitter at Radio 4 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:53,679 Detectives, and check us out on Instagram, Instagram, dot com slash Great 5 00:00:53,759 --> 00:00:59,320 Detectives. Today's program is brought to you in part by the financial support of 6 00:00:59,439 --> 00:01:03,000 our listensteners. You can support the show on a one time basis by mailing 7 00:01:03,079 --> 00:01:11,519 a donation to Adam Graham peelbox one five nine one three that's peelbox one five 8 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:18,560 nine thirteen Boise idahol eight three seven one five. You can also become one 9 00:01:18,599 --> 00:01:23,439 of our ongoing Patreon supporters for as little as two dollars per month by going 10 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:30,519 to Patreon dot Great Detectives dot net. Now we're going to get into this 11 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:40,000 week's episode of Dragnet. The topic of including disclaimers before a radio program is 12 00:01:40,519 --> 00:01:45,760 one that a lot of people debate. I personally use them very sparingly. 13 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:52,719 Assume that most of my audience are adults or under adult supervision, and listening 14 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,120 to detective stories from the Golden Age radio. There are many things that are 15 00:01:57,359 --> 00:02:04,560 quite normal for that era that may not occur in a more modern drama today. 16 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:12,400 I will only generally provide a disclaimer if the content is really extraordinary and 17 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:19,599 not something that would typically hear or expect to hear. Today's episode is noteworthy 18 00:02:19,759 --> 00:02:24,879 for being the only episode to come with its own disclaimer recorded at the time, 19 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:30,759 and I will definitely second what Jack Webb says here, as this is 20 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:36,800 quite a hard hitting episode. So here from February second, nineteen fifty is 21 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:44,479 The Child Killer. Ladies and gentlemen, this program is for you, not 22 00:02:44,599 --> 00:02:50,520 your children. The subject is of vital importance to you as parents. This 23 00:02:50,680 --> 00:03:00,759 is the story of a vicious man. The story you are about to hear 24 00:03:01,199 --> 00:03:14,159 is true, only the names have been changed to protect the innocent Dragnet. 25 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:22,680 You're a detective sergeant. You're assigned to Homicide Detail. Two small girls are 26 00:03:22,719 --> 00:03:28,800 reported missing somewhere between their homes and a neighborhood grocery store. They dropped from 27 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:39,000 sight. Your job find them the dragnet to document a drama of an actual 28 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,120 crime. While the next thirty minutes, in co operation with the Los Angeles 29 00:03:44,159 --> 00:03:46,800 Police Department, you will travel step by step on the side of the law 30 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:52,639 through an actual case from official police files, from beginning to end, from 31 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,919 crime to punishment. Dragnet is the story of your police force in action. 32 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,479 Was Monday, October twenty seventh, was cloudy in Los Angeles. We're working 33 00:04:03,479 --> 00:04:08,120 the night Watch out of Homicide Detail. My partner's Ben Romero. The boss's 34 00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:11,919 Thad Brown, Chief Detectives. My name is Friday. We were on the 35 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,199 way out from Central Division. That was sixteen minutes past eight pm when we 36 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:21,199 got to South Peoria Street, number two sixty seven. Short, gloomy, 37 00:04:23,319 --> 00:04:28,800 sultry, looks like wind for some rain. Yes, sir, police officers. 38 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:30,839 Here is Lieutenant Barker here. Yes, you want to come in? 39 00:04:30,959 --> 00:04:34,879 Thank you missus. Sergeant Romero. I'm Sergeant Friday, Central Homicide. How 40 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,959 are you. My name's Claude Jimmerson. Lieutenant Barker's in here on the phone. 41 00:04:40,319 --> 00:04:46,800 Ca Yeah, Alick Romeo. How's it going to TENA? Not good? 42 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,160 You met mister Jimison. Oh sure, sit down, gentlemen. Would 43 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,759 you like some coffee? I can have the wind. Thank you. Didn't 44 00:04:51,759 --> 00:04:56,480 want to buy the girl's parents anymore than we had to. Jimmerson here is 45 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,360 one of the neighbors he's been nice enough to let us use his form. 46 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,639 The kids disappeared about four this afternoon? Is that right? At three forty 47 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,360 five got out a local broadcast on him. He's missing report. I think 48 00:05:06,439 --> 00:05:13,959 Joe ah My Griswold, age eleven, Farmer's Sperry, seven year old. 49 00:05:14,639 --> 00:05:18,079 You talked to both families. Yeah, three thirty this afternoon, missus Griswold 50 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,879 sent her daughter to the grocery store down on Sycamore Avenue. It's about ten 51 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:27,720 blocks from their home. The Sperry girl friend first, she went with her. 52 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,360 Anybody at the story remember sing calling to the grocery clerk. They were 53 00:05:30,399 --> 00:05:34,480 there about three forty five. Mother gave the kids a note. They bought 54 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,000 a loaf of whitebread, to have pound of bacon, a dozen oranges. 55 00:05:38,079 --> 00:05:40,759 Yeah, that's right, sergeant. I hope nothing's happened to the kids. 56 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,680 We've been neighbors to the Grizwelds for years. Sperry's too. Did you notice 57 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,199 if the little girls were going in the direction of their home. Yes, 58 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,560 they were the last time I saw them, they were about a block away, 59 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,319 heading straight from home. Little Sperry girl had a dog with her, 60 00:05:51,399 --> 00:05:55,000 champ. I think they call him. He's a college and he's missing too. 61 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,279 That's right, Joe. Not a trace of the kids. All the 62 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,720 dog Juvenile officers from seventy seven the street. I've been checking the neighborhood for 63 00:06:00,759 --> 00:06:04,120 the past three hours. The girls in the habit of wandering off like you 64 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:09,800 parents say, no it's the first time. Well, thanks very much, 65 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,199 mister Jimison, not at all, Serge. I'm sure you won't have a 66 00:06:12,199 --> 00:06:14,720 cup of coffee on them. Thanks. I don't like to boy you, 67 00:06:14,759 --> 00:06:16,480 but we may have to check back with you later tonight. Routine questions. 68 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,759 If I can help out in any way to find those girls, let me 69 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:24,319 know. Yeah, we'll let you know, Jivin, thanks again. Nice. 70 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,439 So most of the neighbors we've talked to have been the same, anxious 71 00:06:27,439 --> 00:06:30,279 to help. Some of them are ouved with our Juvenile loves is now trying 72 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,160 to dick up a lead on the kids. You check the movie theater and 73 00:06:33,199 --> 00:06:39,079 the playgrounds in the neighborhood, everything, Joe, those some of your men 74 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,279 from juvenile and Lieutenant Yeah it looks like it. Yeah, Schwatz and Preston. 75 00:06:44,199 --> 00:06:46,240 Yeah, Preston. All you got found the kid's dog, Kelly Fire 76 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,480 Just to both Sanchos drive up in the hills. Hope, it's no indication. 77 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:58,160 How do you mean? Dog's dead? The Collie dog was taken to 78 00:06:58,199 --> 00:07:01,519 a veterinarian on Jefferson Boulevard to be examined for cause of death. We put 79 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,319 in a call to the office and a special detail of men was assigned to 80 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,319 aid in searching the area where the dog was discovered. We got out on 81 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,720 all points bulletin. The fathers of the missing girls and a dozen neighbors joined 82 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,279 in the search with the aid of flashlights. We started from the end of 83 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,600 Sanch's drive and as best we could, we covered the ground for almost a 84 00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:24,879 full mile back into the Sunset Hills. Ten fifty five pm started to thunder. 85 00:07:25,279 --> 00:07:28,959 The search went on. The hilly terrain and thick patches of scrub oak 86 00:07:28,959 --> 00:07:35,160 didn't make the job any easier. Eleven fifteen pm started to rain. What 87 00:07:35,399 --> 00:07:40,959 you step, Joe A rocks are slipper? Yeah? I can't figure it? 88 00:07:41,079 --> 00:07:46,079 Not a sign? What do you think? Wait a minute, flashy 89 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,079 light over here? Oh here see some I thought I did. Yeah, 90 00:07:50,519 --> 00:07:56,920 scrap of brown paper? Who's this coming? Is that you Jimmerson? Yeah? 91 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,360 What's that? You gut? I found it hi down there, just 92 00:07:59,399 --> 00:08:05,079 off the path. Papers say, look oth for bread, a few oranges, 93 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,040 package of bacon. Where'd you find it by down there? Mister home 94 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,920 question? Maybe we were heading back for the cars when I saw this bag 95 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,920 lying to one side of the bush. We'll take it, Jimmerson, thanks, 96 00:08:13,079 --> 00:08:16,480 let's go it. That means if Barbara and Toma were up here today. 97 00:08:16,519 --> 00:08:18,959 So you haven't mentioned that to either one of the girl's fathers. No, 98 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,959 I haven't good. They're having a hard enough time as it is. 99 00:08:26,079 --> 00:08:30,199 Ridy Ben sim permanent. Yeah, excuse us, mister Timson, certainly. 100 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,600 Yeah, Schwartz and I checked with the veto examiner dog. What did you 101 00:08:35,639 --> 00:08:43,720 say? Says a dog was beaten to death. We made another attempt to 102 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,879 continue the search of the Sunset Hills area for the two missing girls, but 103 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,879 the heavy rain and the darkness made the job impossible. The rain had also 104 00:08:50,879 --> 00:08:52,960 destroyed the physical evidence at the spot where we had found the grocery bag. 105 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,000 We went back to Jimmerson's house and called the office again. Another detail of 106 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,120 men was assigned to be on hand helping them search. When it resumed at 107 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,919 daylight. Chief of Detectives Thad Brown and Captain Harry Elliott of Homicide were notified 108 00:09:05,919 --> 00:09:09,399 of late developments. At twenty five minutes past midnight, we started to retrace 109 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,440 the steps of the two missing girls from the time they left their homes at 110 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,200 three point thirty the afternoon before. We covered every foot of ground along the 111 00:09:16,279 --> 00:09:20,120 route which the girls reportedly took on their way to the grocery store. We 112 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,559 got the grocery clerk out of bed and interviewed him again. We talked with 113 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,360 two elderly ladies in the neighborhood who said that they had seen the missing children 114 00:09:28,399 --> 00:09:31,720 between three and four pm the previous afternoon. They could add nothing to what 115 00:09:31,799 --> 00:09:37,879 Jemmerson had already told us. Three thirty am was still raining hard. We 116 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,159 drove back to South Peoria Street and sat in the car. The lights were 117 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,600 still burning in the homes of the missing youngsters, the Griswalls and the Sperrys. 118 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,159 Jemmerson asked us in for coffee again. This time we accepted. We 119 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,960 went in and sat around the kitchen table. Glenn, Chandler and Stendall from 120 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,919 Homicide, Lieutenant Barker Ben and myself. Jemmerson's wife made the coffee. Wasn't 121 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:09,600 much talking. You want more coffee? Oh, oh yeah, thank you, 122 00:10:09,639 --> 00:10:18,759 Miss Jimmerson. All right, thank you? You want some more? 123 00:10:18,039 --> 00:10:24,000 No, thanks, it's fine. You want some more coffee? Sure, 124 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:31,600 Lieutenant tiny go ahead feel the sugar bowl? Will your Amy empty? There 125 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,720 isn't anymore? You never do things right. I told you to get some 126 00:10:35,799 --> 00:10:39,039 at the store today. You told me. That's all right, Jimmerson, 127 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,799 never use it anyway, doing anything right? All right, Amy, go 128 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:52,960 to bed. She's a little upset, not feeling too well. Well. 129 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,279 I guess we better be going, Jefferson. Thanks, No, that's all 130 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,639 right, sergeant. She didn't mean you. It's this whole thing. I 131 00:10:56,639 --> 00:11:01,000 guess got everybody on edge. There's still a chance'll be all right. How 132 00:11:01,039 --> 00:11:03,360 do we explain the bag of grown please we found back in the hills, 133 00:11:03,399 --> 00:11:07,159 and the dog. Anybody's hurt, those kids. We'll take care of him 134 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,360 right here in this neighborhood. You'll get what's coming to it. Somebody at 135 00:11:11,399 --> 00:11:18,960 your back door? Oh, yes, a Stargant Friday here, Yes, 136 00:11:20,039 --> 00:11:24,279 he's here, Come on, he's sergeant, all right, Tom, Hi, 137 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,000 what you got mister Griswold? Joe soo'ld like to have you come over 138 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,159 and talk to him figures will make his wife feel better all broken up? 139 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,360 Sure, come on, Ben, we'll be over to Griswalls with tenant. 140 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,639 Thank you for the coffee, Jammes not at all. If you get a 141 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,600 chance to tell griswelll I'll sorry. Everybody is We will help all we can. 142 00:11:41,799 --> 00:11:50,720 Sure, I'm a bad night. Yeah. Did you checked by the 143 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,840 Sperry's house? Tom? Mm hm, Well, just trying to get a 144 00:11:52,840 --> 00:12:03,679 little sleep. Father's still sitting up there, he is whin Yeah, uh 145 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:11,200 this the Grizzwell, go ahead time. Yeah, they're going to ask questions. 146 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:15,080 What are we going to tell them? I don't know. I could 147 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,519 be all right. Kids do funny things sometimes maybe, but they don't murder 148 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:24,919 their pet dog. Like a doctor, a lawyer, or an engineer. 149 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,519 The police officer comes to realize that there's only so much that can be learned 150 00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:33,399 from his books. Time and experience make up the rest. The police manual 151 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,000 contains no stock answers for the grieving wife who has just lost a husband in 152 00:12:37,039 --> 00:12:41,879 an auto accident. No firm but polite reply to the belligerent motorist and at 153 00:12:41,879 --> 00:12:48,279 a traffic tag, no words of reassurance for distraught parents of missing girls ages 154 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,480 eleven and seven. Whether it's trapping criminals or comforting parents, you find the 155 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,440 right answer the hard way. There isn't any other way. We sat and 156 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,480 talked with the Grizzwoelds for a full hour. We didn't tell them about the 157 00:12:58,519 --> 00:13:03,960 dog or your groceries until the fate of the two little girls was definitely decided. 158 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,399 We figured giving them the information would serve no purpose except to add to 159 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:13,039 their worries. Five minutes past five am, almost a full hour until daylight 160 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:20,320 was still raining. George, maybe the officers would like some breakfast. They 161 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:22,440 no, thank you, kind of miss gris We had some sandwiches about an 162 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,799 hour ago. Sure I can't fix you. Something's no trouble, No sir, 163 00:13:26,879 --> 00:13:35,159 thanks anyway, Thanks terrible night rain, and now Helen. Just just 164 00:13:35,159 --> 00:13:37,879 a little while longer, we'll we'll find the girls. It'll be daylight soon, 165 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,279 Missus Griswold. Some of your neighbors tell us that there were two strangers 166 00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:46,840 here in the neighborhood this afternoon. Yes, but that was earlier, Missus 167 00:13:46,879 --> 00:13:50,720 Nelson next door and I were talking about it. One was a gardener looking 168 00:13:50,759 --> 00:13:56,279 for work. The other one was telling books what time were they around man 169 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:03,759 books, heals one about noon, a gardener about two o'clock. How is 170 00:14:03,799 --> 00:14:07,840 your daughter about strangers? Does she make friends easily? Not at all? 171 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,039 That alms very careful about that. She never go with a stranger. I'm 172 00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:18,159 sure. Why do you ask that question, Sergian? Have you found out 173 00:14:18,159 --> 00:14:20,559 something? No, sir, no, we haven't. It's just a routine 174 00:14:20,639 --> 00:14:26,840 check, that's all. I can't understand girls out in all this range. 175 00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:30,879 Something must have happened. I know you've been doing fine. Don't let that 176 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,639 now, Joe, your frownze car just pulled it outside, thanks to Ben. 177 00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:39,960 Thank you very much, mister Griswold, missus Griswold, Well, thank 178 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,679 you, gentlemen. I here, let me show you the door. We'll 179 00:14:43,679 --> 00:14:46,759 meet at the end of Sancho's drive, mister Griswold, about six am, 180 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,799 and should be light enough by then. All right, oh, sergiant, 181 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,759 There is a chance, isn't there? Girls are all right, there's a 182 00:14:56,759 --> 00:14:58,559 good chance. You try not to worry. Come on, Ben, pressing, 183 00:15:05,399 --> 00:15:07,320 uh, Tom, you want to check with Barker again and see if 184 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,840 any of his men have a line on the two men here in the neighborhood 185 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:15,879 again, right, do you want us. We'll be in Fad Brown's car. 186 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,879 What time you've got, Jill, well, twenty to six. It's 187 00:15:18,919 --> 00:15:28,039 getting light now. Yeah, let's get out of this rain. Gentlemen, 188 00:15:28,159 --> 00:15:30,759 you look a little wet. I could stand a dry pair of shoes. 189 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,480 Still no trace of the kids. You heard about the dog in the bag 190 00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:35,759 of groceries. Yeah, nothing else sensitive. No, it'll be light in 191 00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:39,559 a couple of minutes and we can start searching the hills again. I waded 192 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:41,799 up another detail of men to help their parked up on Census Drive. Captain 193 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,399 Udias with them. Good. I can use all the help we can get. 194 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:46,399 That's rough terrain. There's a lot of ground to cover up there. 195 00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:50,360 Because you talk to everybody in the neighborhood. Yeah, parents too, they 196 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,960 help you much. Well. He told us there were two strangers in the 197 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,919 neighborhood before the girls disappeared. We're having him checked out. Yeah, Griswold 198 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,960 thinks the kids would be safe on that count. Says his daughter's afraid of 199 00:16:00,039 --> 00:16:03,159 strangers, never goes near them. How Mataria to cover the hills last night 200 00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:07,960 about a full mile and she say, Dan, I was starting from Sanchi's 201 00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:11,279 drive straight back into the brush it wasn't too thorough. Not enough man, 202 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:18,240 not enough of life. You've got plenty of both right now. Ten minutes 203 00:16:18,279 --> 00:16:22,320 past six am, Tuesday, October twenty eight, the search of the Sunset 204 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,759 Hills area was resumed. One hundred and fifty officers spread out over a two 205 00:16:25,799 --> 00:16:29,320 square mile area with orders to probe every foot of ground. With them were 206 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,000 almost fifty volunteers from the neighborhood. The rain settled to a cold, steady 207 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:37,639 downpour. The mud was ankle deep. Eight thirty am, no sign of 208 00:16:37,639 --> 00:16:42,480 the missing youngsters. Ten thirty still no sign. The search went on. 209 00:16:44,559 --> 00:16:48,639 A neighborhood restaurant owner sent out five gallon jugs of hot coffee for members of 210 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:52,679 the searching party. After six continuous hours combing the hills, still no results, 211 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,919 Chief Brown, Ben and I went to the car for a cup of 212 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,519 coffee and a cigarette. Got me beat. Those kids wandered off. They 213 00:16:59,559 --> 00:17:02,759 had to come in this direction. Well, they couldn't have headed toward town. 214 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,359 Somebody would have noticed, I'm sure. Yeah, No leads it all 215 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,240 on that APV you said out too. They both pizzled. Youngsters up in 216 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:18,720 those hills someplace gotta be you two ready, Yeah, let's go sure, 217 00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:22,720 doesn't figure two square miles. We've been over twice, and go over it 218 00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:30,440 again. Find them thell Mcgriswold at age eleven Barbara Sperry, aged seven, 219 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,920 Tuesday October twenty eighth to two pm. They were still missing. Another detail 220 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,720 of men from Metropolitan Division were dispatched to eight in the hunt. The daily 221 00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:45,440 newspapers played the story across the front page. Wire services bulleted the news across 222 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,880 the country. Radio newscasters covered the story At the scene on South Peoria Street. 223 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,359 The two mothers sat in their homes and waited. The search went on 224 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:59,160 but stopped ringing. Did you cover that fat your hundred brush over there at 225 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:06,759 Joey? Watch it? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, tard. Let's swing 226 00:18:06,839 --> 00:18:14,839 up this way, all right? Anything? No, not all right? 227 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:22,000 Come on almost two thirty. Yeah, too much coffee sours them? You 228 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:26,960 too. You've got a cigarette on my mouth. Oh, here's Friday from 229 00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:37,960 Rustan. What do you got? What is it? Mother? Watch it 230 00:18:38,039 --> 00:18:52,599 beIN bad spot here, Yeah, it's slippery. Thelma Griswold had brown hair 231 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,839 and brown eyes, about four feet six inches tall. She had a bunch 232 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,039 of wild flowers in her hands. Barbara's spare. He had blonde hair and 233 00:19:00,079 --> 00:19:08,799 blue eyes. She held a bunch of wildflowers too. Friday Jee who found 234 00:19:08,839 --> 00:19:15,319 them? Jemmerson, some of the neighbors. Wow, dear good Pruston, 235 00:19:15,599 --> 00:19:18,359 Yes, sir, get something, cover him up? Yes, sir, 236 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,640 come on. Yeah, I've been a coup thirty two years. I've never 237 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,160 seen anything like that. I hope I never do again. Must have been 238 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:32,000 a maniac. Had to be the lowest kind craved. Anybody call the crime 239 00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:34,160 lab. Yeah, the area has been cleared. Family has been notified. 240 00:19:34,279 --> 00:19:37,119 Not yet, I'll have to tell them. Do you want to come along? 241 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,920 Well, that wouldn't be any good. Two lives. What can you 242 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:48,720 say? Whoever did it ran up a big bill. They're gonna pay it. 243 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:07,039 You are listening to drag met authentic stories of your police. Five minutes 244 00:20:07,079 --> 00:20:11,319 after the bodies were discovered, the hunt for the psychopathic killer was underway. 245 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,119 Lee Jones and his crew from the crime lab arrived and took pictures of everything 246 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,920 that could possibly have a bearing on the crime. Physical evidence was hard to 247 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,160 find. The heavy rain had destroyed any possible chance there might have been a 248 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,000 finding footprints. When the crew from the crime lab was finished, the coroner 249 00:20:26,079 --> 00:20:30,200 arrived and took the bodies to the County Morgue for autopsy. An immediate round 250 00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:33,200 up of all known sexual psychopaths in the area was ordered. They were taken 251 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,400 into homicide for questioning, so were the people from the South Peoria Street neighborhood 252 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,160 whom we had talked with previously. The questioning went on all through the night. 253 00:20:41,599 --> 00:20:45,119 Together with a half a dozen officers from Homicide Detail, we narrowed down 254 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,119 the field. Wednesday, October twenty ninth, seven am. We checked in 255 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,440 with Chief of Detectives that brown gentlemen, you must get charged. Got a 256 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,759 few hours sleeved last night and use a few more. Sorry, we have 257 00:20:56,759 --> 00:21:00,880 to keep moving on this. You see the papers this morning. Yeah, 258 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,839 they're like everybody else, crying too late. Someday people are gonna learn. 259 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,440 You don't fool with these degenerates. You take precautions or you get the consequences. 260 00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:11,119 There's no in between. There's usual talk going around town supposed to be 261 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,240 all our fault, letting the psychos run loose. We don't make the laws, 262 00:21:14,279 --> 00:21:15,880 we enforce them till we get something to work with, laws with teeth 263 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,319 in them. These atrocities are going to go on. Nobody seems to care. 264 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,319 We pick them up, they serve a few days, pay a fine 265 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:22,599 on the walls, out of here. Nobody cares. It's sure. Pity 266 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,960 them, don't cure them. Nature played a trick on them. Peeple, 267 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,119 sorry for them until they kill a kid. It's not a firm law to 268 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,400 cover them as they are with to wait till they murder somebody. We got 269 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:33,960 a better law for mad dogs. We don't let them run loose till they 270 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,200 bite somebody. Those two little girls have to prove something. How's the parents 271 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,079 make it up? Which you might expect shocked, hysteric? Excuse me, 272 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:48,960 gon speaking? Who sent them? Man Chandler? They finished questioning that bunch 273 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:55,119 we brought in yesterday? Oh jee man, Joe? How many possibles, 274 00:21:55,119 --> 00:22:00,000 Glenn, none? Or we had left, established airtight alibis and check their 275 00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:03,319 registrations, gave their releases. Where does that leave us? We start from 276 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,720 scratch? I don't think so, Chief, You got a hunch a little 277 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,240 better than that, Joe, I'm sold. What do you mean you said 278 00:22:10,279 --> 00:22:12,200 the parents told you the little girls were afraid of strangers, wouldn't go near 279 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,559 them. Yeah, we got the same reactions from some of the neighbors we 280 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,400 talked two day before yesterday. Yeah, now we find out that all the 281 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,960 known psychos in the area are clear, perfect alibis. When you figured the 282 00:22:23,039 --> 00:22:26,400 killer couldn't have been a stranger to the little girls, that's right. There 283 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,440 were only two strangers in the whole neighborhood the day the girls disappeared, in 284 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,000 the gardener and the salesman, and both of them had been checked and cleared 285 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,799 as far as we know. The little girls wouldn't have gone that far up 286 00:22:36,799 --> 00:22:38,319 on the hills alone of their own accord, and they wouldn't have gone to 287 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,920 the strangers. They had to be lured there and by someone they knew. 288 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,000 Any ideas could have been one of the neighbors. No, we checked every 289 00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:48,519 possible out there. Glenn, we questioned him a half a dozen times, 290 00:22:48,599 --> 00:22:56,359 So why there's one that might fit? Who's that? Claude Jammerson. Glenn 291 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,960 Chandler had been a veteran homicide officer before ben or Iy joined the department. 292 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,240 He was tall, quiet and reserved. He had a good reason for everything 293 00:23:03,279 --> 00:23:07,319 he did, for everything he thought. The three of us sat down and 294 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,480 tried to put the pieces together. Number One Chandler uncovered a point that Ben 295 00:23:11,519 --> 00:23:14,960 and I had missed completely. Jimmerson and his wife were not close friends of 296 00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:18,640 either the Sperry family or the Griswalls. For a near stranger, he showed 297 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,680 an extraordinary interest in the welfare of the children after they disappeared. Number two, 298 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,599 Ben and I discovered that Jimmerson's wife had an eight year old boy by 299 00:23:26,599 --> 00:23:30,559 a previous marriage. The child did not live with them. Missus Jimmerson told 300 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,799 Chandler that her husband had been cruel to the boy. She refused to elaborate. 301 00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:37,839 Number three. Jemmerson was the last person to see the children alive. 302 00:23:37,519 --> 00:23:41,720 Number four. The bodies of the children had been well hidden in the underbrush. 303 00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:45,279 Jimmerson found them. Number five. Jimmerson had been over backwards to make 304 00:23:45,319 --> 00:23:49,160 friends with the investigating officers right from the start. As any veteran officer can 305 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,359 tell you, that's not the usual attitude. At eight thirty a m. 306 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,440 Chandler, Ben and I left the office. We spent the day digging back 307 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,640 fifteen years into Jimmerson's life. We got back to the office just after midnight 308 00:24:00,519 --> 00:24:04,799 Thursday, October thirty, at ten am. We checked in. Okay, 309 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:15,880 J're already. Thanks, come on Ben, Yeah, good morning, mister 310 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:21,240 Jamison. Oh how are you, sergeant? Glad to see you down, 311 00:24:21,759 --> 00:24:25,279 Sorry to bother you again, out at all, Glad to help anything new 312 00:24:25,319 --> 00:24:29,599 turn up. Did you kill those two little girls? That's a funny thing 313 00:24:29,599 --> 00:24:32,359 to ask, of course not. You know that. We ask everybody the 314 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,480 same thing. Hope you're not offended. Oh you kind of surprised me. 315 00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:38,359 I didn't know. Did you kill those little girl? I don't understand. 316 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,480 I told you no, of course not. It's just start question routine. 317 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,880 Did you kill him? Now? Look, sergeant, how many times do 318 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,440 I have to tell you? No? Sorry? You don't have any children, 319 00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:52,880 do you? No? We don't know step children. No. Why 320 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,680 before you moved out to Southeoria Street, you and the wife lived out in 321 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,799 West LA, didn't you? Kilton Avenue? Or yes? How'd you know? 322 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,640 You recall them? Mary Gibbs out there? Gibbs, No, six 323 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,480 year old girl? You were charged with molesting her. That was back in 324 00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:11,880 nineteen forty four. They were crazy. They never proved it before. Kilton 325 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,799 there knew you lived in Santa Monica on tenth Street. Is that right? 326 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,079 Yes? It was an eight year old girl Donna Hanrath. That kid lied 327 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,799 too. She asked me to fix her doll buggy. I never went nearer. 328 00:25:22,839 --> 00:25:26,880 What about your stepson, Why isn't he living with you? Why did 329 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,680 your wife send him to live with her sister? Amy's crazy. I never 330 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,319 harmed the boy. We didn't get along, That's all I got on my 331 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,680 nerves. You've had four jobs in the past five years. What were they? 332 00:25:37,839 --> 00:25:40,799 I don't know what you're talking about. You were a janitor at a 333 00:25:40,799 --> 00:25:44,240 grammar school down the south end of town, then a gardener at a children's 334 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,839 playground, Then you were a shoe salesman, children's shoes. Then you worked 335 00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:51,960 at another grammar school. What does all this mean anyway? What are you 336 00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:56,240 getting at? Have you ever been in jail? Once? Six months there 337 00:25:56,279 --> 00:26:00,440 was some trouble. What kind of trouble. I didn't know what I was 338 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,880 doing. I was drinking. I didn't mean to bother the kid. Well, 339 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,480 that's all Jimmerson routine question. You can go now. Oh thanks, 340 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:11,880 I hope you haven't got the wrong idea about me. I like children, 341 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,039 that's all. Sure. Thanks for coming in, but not at all sarching 342 00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:19,720 anything I can do to help. Well, goodbye, I say Jimmerson. 343 00:26:19,759 --> 00:26:23,880 I almost forgot. There is one thing all. Since you're the wine who 344 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,519 found the little girls, we'll have to have you identify the bodies. It 345 00:26:26,599 --> 00:26:30,319 won't take long. Morgans just across the street, up the blood Well. 346 00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:33,440 I'd like to help you, but I got an appointment. All you have 347 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:34,440 to do is look at them. We'll take you long. Come on, 348 00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:38,799 let's go. I'd like to help, sergeant, but I don't take these 349 00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:42,079 things while I get sick. We'll make it, say not this way, 350 00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:52,640 raining again. I'm sorry, Sagian. I don't think I better go. 351 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,920 Just identify them. It's all. Won't take a minute. Maybe if we 352 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,119 had to drink before we went in, you can have and laughter and watch 353 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,039 it. A heavy trapping, you know, lots teams will have to wait. 354 00:27:04,759 --> 00:27:07,920 I need to drink. I can't go in that place to start to 355 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:14,240 drink. He'll be all right, Okay, let's go. Morg's up this 356 00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:18,359 way. I can't look at him. I get sick. Don't make me 357 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,480 nothing to it. You don't see here we are. I went down the 358 00:27:23,559 --> 00:27:37,359 driveway. It's a short cut this way, Hi, Joe, can I 359 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,839 help you? Yeah, Archie, those little girls, Selma Griswold, Barbara 360 00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:52,599 Sperry, Oh yeah, this way, please right here. Joe yeah, 361 00:27:53,079 --> 00:28:18,759 Selmo griswold'cover m Jefferson Yeah, Yuma. This one Barbara, a little 362 00:28:18,759 --> 00:28:27,240 one. You killed him, didn't you? Dog jumped at me. She 363 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:34,240 started to yell. Put my hand over her mouth. Then the other kid. 364 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:48,000 I hit them too hard, they cried. Joe, that's all all 365 00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:57,799 right. Huh, let's go. It wasn't my fault. I like kids 366 00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:11,720 in an understanding, neither do I. Mister, Come on, the story 367 00:29:11,799 --> 00:29:17,279 you have just heard was true, only the names were changed to protect the 368 00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:21,279 innocent. On March eighteenth, trial was held in Superior Court, Department eighty 369 00:29:21,319 --> 00:29:22,960 seven, City and County of Los Angeles, State of California. In a 370 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:33,640 moment the results of that trial, Claude Willis Jimmerson was tried and convicted of 371 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,480 murder in the first degree. On April twenty third, at ten am, 372 00:29:36,559 --> 00:29:41,279 he was executed in the lethal gas chamber of the State Penitentiary. You have 373 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,559 just heard Dragnet a series of authentic cases from official files. Technical advice for 374 00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:48,759 Dragnet comes from the Office of Chief of Police W. A. Wharton. 375 00:29:49,000 --> 00:30:07,240 Your tune for the Stars on NBC Welcome Back the Childkiller is not a pleasant 376 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:14,359 episode, but it is a groundbreaking one that shines a light on the dangers 377 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,799 of those who prey on children. For a series known for being stiff, 378 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:23,240 or wrote, Dragnet could pack a punch well. The series portrayed the police 379 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:29,640 as professionals. It also portrayed those sort of things that pushed the police to 380 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,279 their emotional limits, and the reactions to finding the girls, particularly by Thad 381 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:40,599 Brown, really was a terrific example of that. Even though this was the 382 00:30:40,599 --> 00:30:45,559 only episode to come with a warning, this doesn't mean the series was lax 383 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:52,359 or never dealt with these topics again. Dragnet dealt with these issues with sensitivity 384 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,799 and time and time again, and I think this is something the series doesn't 385 00:30:57,839 --> 00:31:06,839 get enough credit for. There's a pop culture image of Dragnet generated by things 386 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:14,039 like the nineteen eighty seven Dragnet movie that really stereotyped the series as just Joe 387 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:19,559 Friday being a stickler for rules, when in fact, the series, particularly 388 00:31:19,599 --> 00:31:29,200 in its earliest incarnations, shined the light on some really serious problems and for 389 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:37,319 the first time try to approach them in a way that showed sensitivity and started 390 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,599 conversations about how we were going to deal with some of these issues. I 391 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:47,480 do think that some later and more recent dramas that have dealt with these issues 392 00:31:48,759 --> 00:31:59,680 have sometimes done so in sensationalistic and even titillating ways that go into various details 393 00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:04,039 that you might be able to get away with on modern television, but don't 394 00:32:04,039 --> 00:32:08,759 really help anyone. Dragon that left a lot to the imagination, but gave 395 00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:15,960 it plenty to work with. One great example of this is in a nineteen 396 00:32:15,079 --> 00:32:21,680 sixties TV episode about child abuse, where Friday met with the leader of a 397 00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:28,519 women's club and showed her pictures of what parental abuse of children look like. 398 00:32:29,119 --> 00:32:35,200 The audience couldn't see these pictures of abuse, but Friday describes some of these 399 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:42,519 situations. His words and her reactions brought home the horror of what was happening 400 00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:47,039 in so many homes now. TV censors may have played some role in the 401 00:32:47,079 --> 00:32:52,279 way this was portrayed, but to fulfill the goal of educating viewers and listeners, 402 00:32:52,839 --> 00:33:00,440 you don't need to know every detail of each abuse that occurred. What 403 00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:05,759 you did need to know is that there are dark things that happened to children, 404 00:33:05,839 --> 00:33:10,359 and you also need to know the warning signs. On another note, 405 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,880 I have to say I love the Glenn Chandler character, the veteran detective who 406 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:22,960 was very quiet, didn't say much, but when he did it was worth 407 00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:28,440 listening to. Obviously, he's a great person to have around, particularly on 408 00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:32,279 a police force. I also think it's a bit of a nod to realism 409 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,039 for some episodes to help the story fit into half an hour. Friday and 410 00:33:37,119 --> 00:33:43,200 his partner need to solve everything. Even if a big task force has been 411 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,079 assembled and we're told we're bringing in all these other guys from all these other 412 00:33:47,759 --> 00:33:52,920 visions and departments to help you out, it still needs to be Friday and 413 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,480 his partner that solved things. So to have one of those officers, you 414 00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:01,799 know, particularly an unassuming that who's just been around a long while and seeing 415 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:07,079 a lot come in and provide the solution is a really good touch. The 416 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:14,000 solution was sadly realistic, including the identity of the perpetrator. I did think 417 00:34:14,119 --> 00:34:21,000 that the scene and the way that Friday and Romero obtained the confession was very 418 00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:27,320 well done. Of Course, Thad Brown's hope for laws that would give solutions 419 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,519 to the police has met with mixed results. While there have been different enforcement 420 00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:37,519 approaches. The problem continues to this day. Indeed, with a few details 421 00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:42,719 changed. This is sadly a story you could imagine happening today. Well, 422 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,639 now we turn to listener comments and feedback, and we go to Spotify for 423 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:55,559 a couple of comments regarding the episode twenty two Rifle for Christmas FAUSTI Booboo rights 424 00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:05,000 the emotion of the actor who played mister Rheim was realistic and really uttered me. 425 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:12,159 I would agree that was a superb performance there by William Johnstone and Peter 426 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,239 Wrights. Oh my goodness, this episode was heart wrenching. Well, I 427 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:20,920 definitely agree, and that's certainly true of this one as well. And there 428 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:27,039 are a number of quite challenging episodes of Dragnet, thankfully not ever a week 429 00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:31,400 though, and really they have the goal of serving a higher purpose and not 430 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:38,000 just being sensational. I do want to also go ahead and thank James who 431 00:35:38,079 --> 00:35:45,239 gave a five star rating to The Big Escape over on Good Pods, and 432 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:51,880 I also want to thank Alexis who gave a five star rating to The Elusive 433 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:57,559 Agent on Good Pods as well. Thank you so much for utilizing good Pods 434 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,800 and rating those episodes. Now it's time to thank our Patreon supporter of the 435 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:07,199 day, and I want to go ahead and think David. David has been 436 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:15,119 one of our Patreon supporters since January of twenty nineteen, currently supporting the podcast 437 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,760 at the Detective Sergeant level of seven dollars and fourteen cents or more per month. 438 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,159 Thank you so much for your support, David, and that will do 439 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:29,199 it for today. If you're enjoying the podcast, please follow us using your 440 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:34,960 favorite podcast software and be sure to rate and review the podcast wherever you download 441 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,880 it from. We will be back next Saturday with another episode of Dragnet, 442 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:45,880 and of course next Tuesday we'll enjoy the return of Doctor Tim Detective. But 443 00:36:46,119 --> 00:36:51,400 join us back here on Monday for a start of another week on the great 444 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:57,039 Detectives of Old Time Radio with the Adventures of the Falcon where I have a 445 00:36:57,159 --> 00:37:00,880 nice little business here. Well, I ain't been growing steady the past few 446 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:05,880 years. This week I drove my chief competitor, Raymond Arsatti to the wall 447 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,880 bankruptcy. I'll bully for you. Got a call from him this morning, 448 00:37:09,199 --> 00:37:14,719 could I come right over? I went. What he offered was a merger. 449 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,079 I don't need him, he needs me well, well, I told 450 00:37:19,159 --> 00:37:23,320 him I wasn't interested and left. An hour later, he's found shot through 451 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,559 the head. That's one way to get rid of competition. I didn't do 452 00:37:27,679 --> 00:37:30,320 it, all right, jam all right, but the medical examiner says he 453 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,320 got it right around the time I was there. But he was alive when 454 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,039 you left. Definitely only I have no proof, but I have a theory, 455 00:37:38,119 --> 00:37:42,159 welling is see what you think of it? All right, I say 456 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,039 suicide. Was there a note? They didn't find any. But here's the 457 00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:51,480 way I see it. Orsati knew he was licked and blames me. I 458 00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:54,360 hope you'll be with us then. In the meantime, send your comments to 459 00:37:54,599 --> 00:38:01,239 Box thirteen at Great Detectives dot nit, follow us on Twitter at Radio Detectives, 460 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:07,320 and check us out on Instagram, Instagram, dot com slash Great Detectives 461 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:13,199 from Boise, Idaho. This is your host, Adam Graham, signing off.