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We'll talk about special operations Cobert, ask

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me and the Team House with your
hopes. Jack Murphy and David Bark Hey,

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guys, welcome to episode to forty
one two of The Team House.

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I'm Jack here with Dave and our
guest on tonight's show is Brad Thomas.

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Brad served in the Ranger Regiment and
Army Special Operations at a long career there,

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and now he plays in a band
called Silence and Light. We're really

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excited to have you on the show
Man, thank you for coming in studio

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today. Yeah, thanks for having
me and great meeting you. Dave.

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We haven't met, but I was
informed you were rocking the shirt screenshotting that

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and sending it to me, and
I don't know who this guy is,

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but you know, let's figure it
out. Always happy to support the band.

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Man, Yeah, I know it's
great. You guys got to have

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a great band, and then knowing
your background makes it even cooler, so

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I appreciate it. It's it's funny
because I think a lot of people hear

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the music and they're expecting it to
be like Super JB, you know,

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and they hear it and they're like, man, you're actually really good,

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Like this is actually good music.
Yeah, it's now you're like your friend's

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band that you have to go support, like it's yeah, it's great music.

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Yeah there's a lot of that too
though. Yeah, there's a lot

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of that too. But yeah,
I appreciate you guys have me on.

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Jack and I met I think way
back twenty eleven, maybe even twenty ten,

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something like that, and I helped
do an article about the Ranger Recon

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Detachment and how it started to shift
from the time I originally got there in

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like ninety five through the time and
I left there in ninety eight. So

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it was a ton of fun.
I'd love to revisit that subject sometime because

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what RRD starting like, well eighty
four somewhere around there, I think.

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So. I think it stood up
the same time that three seven five stood

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up and RHQ stood up. I
think that makes sense after Grenada, and

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I think it was cold. I
remember it being called the Cult Team,

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and Cult Team was like something it
was more about like this. It was

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like Halo in and drop bombs kind
Yeah. Yeah, the concept was like,

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yeah, Halo and in behind enemy
lines and lazing targets. Yeah,

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the Cult teams were like a special
team. But yeah, I would love

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to revisit that topic at some point
because it's a cool history. And then

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obviously they've gone on to do so
much else. You know, last twenty

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years has been wild. But yeah, I know that stuff's super fun to

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write about. Yeah, I think
it's it's one of those you know,

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when people ask about the time that
I served, there are a couple of

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things that stand out to me and
I don't know if you guys have the

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same kind of when you look back, you know, at however long you

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served For me twenty years, When
I look back at the first like eighteen

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months that I was in the Rangers, it feels like that period of time

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was eight years years long the longest. It was just so grueling and demanding

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and having to prove yourself and everything
else. It feels like of the chunk,

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you know. And then I start
comparing that like amount of time with

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other places that I served, and
how much time I was on the same

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team with the same four guys for
like five years, you know, and

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you're thinking, man, this was
just a blip, Like I served on

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one team longer than I spent in
B Company, Third Ranger battime, right,

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you know. And anyway, it's
crazy, so I think, and

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I'd be interested in hearing your take
on this, But I feel like your

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brain's still developing, you know.
When I got there, I was twenty

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one, just turned twenty two,
and you know, your brain is still

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in development, and so really that
time becomes your impressionable, It becomes a

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part of really a part of who
you are, you know, and not

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like later in my career where you
know, we were talk about this earlier,

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but like, I'm not multiple play
anymore. Right, I am who

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I am, and I either do
the job that you want me to do

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or I don't. Right, I'd
be curious on your I feel like it's

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also part of the part of it
is that it is the biggest culture shift

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that you have in your life,
for sure. And so you know,

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like when you've been in the military
for you know, a longer period of

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time, Yeah, your duties may
differ, and yeah, you may be

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given more responsibility or things like that, but but you're already part of that

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culture. So it's sort of just
more of like course corrections or whatever.

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Where when you go from you know, whether it's high school or college or

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you know, from like me just
from the street from my you know place

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on the street to uh, you
know, to enlisting, that like it's

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a big deal. Like it's a
big thing sure, and you know,

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and yeah, there's there's like a
definitely like a trajectory too, Like you

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can read war memoirs going back as
far as you want, you know,

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fifty sixty, seventy years ago,
and it's like when the guy first shows

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up like, oh man, this
is awesome. This is the shit.

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You know, We're awesome. They
get to that by the end of their

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career and they're like jaded. Oh
it's all political now. Everything's different now,

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it's not what it used to be. It's not hard. But if

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you think about it, like,
there's some kid right now in twenty twenty

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three out there and range for battalion, Like, this is his time,

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man, this is this is the
heat right now, right at this moment,

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it's a big deal for him.
Yeah, experiencing the same thing time

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so exactly. So that's one of
the things that stands out is looking back,

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that period of time just seems like
it was forever long. And the

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other thing that stands out is,
you know, people will say, when

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you got to Delta must have been
you know, amazing, it must have

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been great whatever, And it was, but it's not the same type of

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environment where when I was in the
recon attachment, we had to do everything

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ourselves. You know, nothing was
taken care of for you. So hey,

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as an ESIX plan of waterborne training
trip for two weeks down at Tindel

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Air Force Base, coordinating with air
crews and doing that, what kind of

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training are we going to be doing? And I don't know, there was

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a part of it that you owned
it right, the whole thing and not

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just hey, here's your here's your
stuff. It's a dam go out.

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Yeah. So that was I felt
like one of the best kept secrets in

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the army. You know. It
was a small group of you know n

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CEOs. We were all you know, first name basis. While I was

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there, we got to grow our
hair out and go from high D tights

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to you know, army army state, which was really popular in the regiment.

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Oh yeah, yeah, right,
especially when idiots like me like to

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push the standards, right, you
know, like you can't just have an

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army standard haircut. We have to
look like really like civilians. Right.

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But yeah, that was that was
a great time. You know, Brad,

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what was it like, what was
your origin story in terms of like

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when did you start looking at the
military as a life for you. So

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there's the answer that I would have
given you in nineteen ninety when I joined.

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And then there's an answer that I
would give you, you know,

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having perspective and looking back and kind
of recognizing the things that influenced me.

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My dad a PhD doctor, and
you know, grew up fairly well off,

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great family, you know, no
trauma and and all of that.

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And I'm super appreciative of my childhood
and and everything that I had. My

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dad for excitement and thrills, worked
as a volunteer fire captain and so every

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Saturday Sunday he drug me to the
firehouse and I got to see him and

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his buddies, you know, kind
of tooling around with one another, and

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they all had nicknames. There was
this camaraderie and this is something that you

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know, this is my answer in
twenty twenty three. I wouldn't have told

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you this, you know, in
nineteen ninety when I joined, but seeing

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that I wanted to do that.
Emergency was a huge show on TV at

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the time and definitely had an impact
on me, and I wanted to grow

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up be a fireman, run fire
calls, you know, running the burning

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houses and all that stuff. And
so those are some of my earliest memories.

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Five years of age. I think
my parents took me to my first

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concert, may have been six,
which was Barry Manilow Nice and when I

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saw that, it was kind of
like, yeah, fuck all that fire

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departnership like, I want to I
want to do this. This is what

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I want to do. I want
to entertain people. And so they ended

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up buying a piano under the conditions
that I take piano lessons and blah blah

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blah blah blah blah blah. Anyway, you know, so I think that

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you see my dad and and that
kind of camaraderie between you know, his

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teammates was really the thing that inspired
me when it came time, you know,

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graduating high school, I'm getting ready
to go to college. I was

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a classical guitar major, which,
by the way, doesn't buy you anything

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in the world or get you anything
in the world. By the time I

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got there, I went to the
fire department where he worked and was like,

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what do I need to do.
I'll volunteer, I'll take fire science

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classes, you know, at college, I'll do whatever. And they're like,

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hey, we're not really hiring.
So it kind of left me in

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a spot where I'm playing music,
I'm playing in band, you know,

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trying to make that thing happen,
and it just kind of, you know,

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ran its course over a couple of
years, and that was it.

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And at some point a buddy of
mine was in He was in the Air

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Force as an EOD guy and was
home from basic training and AIIT and on

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Christmas leave, and he was telling
me about these guys that jumped in behind

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enemy lines to rescue down pilots and
they came recruiting at the end of his

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basic and I was like, it
kind of just the Spidey senses started to

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tingle a little bit, and that
was really where it started, you know.

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And so you know what made you
go to the route of like Army

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as opposed to Air Force pawer rescue
or something like that. So I actually

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went to the Air Force and went
to the Air Force recruiter and said,

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you know, I want the right
to try for this unit. And the

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guy lied to me flat out and
was like, yeah, I can get

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you a contract and I can do
all this, and he couldn't. And

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I ended up enlisting signing and was
going there every week to say when's my

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contract. He basically told me if
you sign, I'll get you a contract.

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So I signed no contract and I'm
like, all right, what's going

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on? I'm leaving there one day
and the Army recruiter he was like,

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hey man, those lowdown recruiters,
right, what's going on? What are

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you doing here? And I said, well, he won't give me a

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contract for what I want to do. And he goes, what do you

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want to do? I want to
be in Delta Force. And the dude

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just cracked up and he's like,
well, you can't do that. You

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got to do something first, like
Special Forces. And I go, okay,

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I'll do that, and he goes, well, you can't do that

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either. You got to do something
before that, like Ranger. And I

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go, okay, I'll do that. He goes, I can get you

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a contrac track for that today.
And so that's that's literally how the Ranger

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thing came to be. I had
read, you know, like we were

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talking earlier. I had read some
you know, Vietnam era books, you

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know, CIA and Vietnam Rangers in
Vietnam that, you know, those types

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of things. But it it wasn't
like a huge interest, you know.

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It was just kind of something that
I read and at the time, you

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know. But anyway, so when
the Ranger thing came, so then he

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gets a VCR tape out, she
puts it in, sit down and watch

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this. This is what rangers do. And it was a film about Ranger

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School had nothing to do with like
the Ranger regimen, the exact same video

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in like two thousands. I say, we have the video over there on

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the shelf, don't. Yeah,
well, the guys do a push ups

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for in a rocksack, probably that
there was a live fire in desert phase

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they were. They showed that,
they showed U daylight jumps out of like

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a one forty one. It was
just all ranger schools swamp stuff, and

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I thought, oh, this is
cool. Yeah, I'll do this.

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Yeah, no idea what I'm getting
into. So it's interesting. I'll have

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these kids hit me up on social
media and they're like, what did you

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do to prepare? And I'm like, yeah, not a fucking cigarettes and

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drink beer. Yeah, you know, I didn't do anything to prepare.

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So anyway, there there's something to
be said for preparation. But I also

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think that, like, because there's
so much information out there right now,

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that kids tend to get like overloaded
and they think there's some magical formula that

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they, you know, they need
to hit like these multiordinal points in order

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to be ready for you know,
any type of selection. It's like,

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yeah, be fit if you can
be fit. But beyond that, you

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know, well, there's there's in
my mind, there's a tangent selection,

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and then there's the intangible stuff.
And something I got to experience recently with

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my youngest son who went down the
road of hey, I want to follow

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in your footsteps and do that,
and I was like, hey, statistically,

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chances are pretty slim. You know, the attrition rates pretty high.

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So it's one of the things that
I tried to instill in him was it's

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00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:28.320
one thing to say, well,
how many push ups do I need to

207
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do? How many sit ups,
pull ups? All that stuff, But

208
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then there's this thing that happens where
it's like you're getting smoked the night before.

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You're up at four because your squad
is you know, got detailed to

210
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go do AMMO whatever, and then
you're doing that, and then you're going

211
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into the PT test not fresh.
You know, it's not like everybody's getting

212
00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:56.879
this clean shot at something. You
have how you fit in with your peer

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00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:02.720
group, you know, and some
selection courses use PEERI valves, some don't,

214
00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:07.879
some matter, some don't, whatever
it might be, but you know

215
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that's something that's like those those things
aren't a standard, you know, not

216
00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:18.320
getting hurt or being hurt and going
all the way through something with torn cartilage

217
00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:22.200
in your knee or something like that. There are just so many things that

218
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are intangible that aren't a standard.
You know, it's not black and white.

219
00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:30.960
It's very ambiguous. Yeah, And
it's also there's also something about,

220
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.279
you know, if you look at
seals and they're not as swim they have

221
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:37.200
to do. There there are guys
and you know, Regiment or saf or

222
00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:41.919
wherever who wouldn't who are tough dudes
and can do anything, they just can't

223
00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.159
do that. And then you have
seals who are phenomenal, you know,

224
00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:48.679
or well rounded athletes and everything else
like that, but wouldn't be able to

225
00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:53.200
handle the miles under a rock that
if they had gone another way on either

226
00:16:53.320 --> 00:17:00.600
side, they may not just because
of the specificity of what it on the

227
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:06.559
body for those two types of events. Yeah, absolutely, And I think

228
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you know, the mental aspect of
all of that is the biggest key.

229
00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.559
You know, like you can't be
a dud physically and expect to roll in

230
00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:19.640
and ace everything and it's all good
because I got it up here. You

231
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:25.000
know. There's a balance to that. And I feel like so much of

232
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.960
it comes from mental you know,
and not even I don't think toughness.

233
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:34.799
The thing that fed me was guys
quitting, yeah, you know, and

234
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:41.480
I remember thinking like the Ranger Cadret
showed up at Airborne school and it was

235
00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:48.400
like this screaming match that happened and
people were like literally like frozen, you

236
00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.079
know, paralyzed, and we throw
all our bags on the truck and everybody

237
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:57.079
starts to climb on and get the
fuck off the truck, like you're not

238
00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:00.920
riding on the truck, your bags
are riding on the truck. And the

239
00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.279
truck takes off and we run behind
the truck up to the rip barracks,

240
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:08.880
and uh, there were already probably
you know, if there were sixty people

241
00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:12.599
in formation, there were probably twenty
that quit right on the spot. Yeah,

242
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:17.720
and do just kind of like Barrel
Chest in his way through the formation,

243
00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:22.039
who wants to quit? Ten nine
eight seven, hands just flying and

244
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:26.680
they're like it's not that bad,
like right and started yet. So once

245
00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:32.680
once the actual standards and testing of
that started and you start to see people

246
00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:37.960
you know, quit or not make
it, that that definitely gave me energy.

247
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:41.039
It was kind of like, well, it's not that bad yet for

248
00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:45.200
me, you know, right.
It's also it was always interesting to me

249
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:51.720
people who quit after events or before
of it. It's like, like I

250
00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.759
understand if like during an event,
like you're just like your balls are dragging

251
00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:57.559
and you just dog tired and you're
like, okay, I can't deal.

252
00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:03.720
But they wouldn't. They would get
all the way through the event, right,

253
00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:06.839
They get all the way through the
event and then and then you know,

254
00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:10.759
then they like they are or you
know, the ranger cadre or whoever,

255
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:15.200
would like light a fire and go
okay, you know, if you

256
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:17.720
want to quit, you can come
sit by this fire and get nice and

257
00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:21.599
warm, like if you want to
quit, it's like you just made it

258
00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:26.799
like through this like ball busting road
march. Yeah. Yeah, the psychology

259
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:32.839
is very interesting and and I think
that uh, you know, you mentioned

260
00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.839
the amount of information that's out there
now, it's pretty phenomenal. I haven't

261
00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:41.599
googled it, like I haven't googled
Ranger selection, you know, RASP or

262
00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:47.240
any of that, and recently found
out and maybe you guys know this,

263
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:52.799
but there's like this whole RASP rip
argument online. Oh no, there is,

264
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.960
Yeah, there's oh, like you
eat ship unless you you know RIP

265
00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:03.680
like RIP does you know? Yeah, there's a whole thing about that which

266
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:07.839
I found kind of entergining in RASP. It's like it's like eight weeks,

267
00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:11.880
I believe, and I mean like
they get way way more training than any

268
00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.799
of us did. Like it seems
like the standards are higher, much higher

269
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.920
than they were when we went through. Yeah, I don't even know.

270
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.359
I don't know all the standards and
what they are, but they kind of

271
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:30.960
front load from what I do know, they frontload all of those things.

272
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:36.319
So once they get a kid through
that passes all the prerequisites, then it's

273
00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:40.039
it's more about training them, right, which is probably a product of g

274
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:45.319
Y. Hey we're just smoking these
guys for three weeks and they can hang.

275
00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:48.680
But then they show up and they
don't know anything. And then they're

276
00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.359
on a plane, you know,
going overseas to deploy and they have no

277
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:59.039
skills all except for I won't quit, you know. So But anyway,

278
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:03.119
Yeah, it's a whole it's a
whole conversation on I didn't know there was.

279
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:07.759
I didn't know there was actually like
RIP essentialists that are like you know,

280
00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.079
the rider die for RIP. Yeah, I mean it was good,

281
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:15.440
but I mean times change and evolved, and yeah, guys are getting better

282
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.400
training now. I mean, it's
it's it's probably very similar to the to

283
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:23.680
the argument when Rangers School dropped Desert
Phase, like that, you know that

284
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:29.039
you didn't do Dessert phase, go
through desert phase. I did not.

285
00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:34.519
I did. You did not?
Yeah, I did actually three times three

286
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:40.359
times in desert phase. But so
this is even to prove the point even

287
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:45.160
further. I didn't go through and
Dougway, And doug Way was the hard

288
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:49.400
desert face like for Bliss was nothing, even though you got over. I

289
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:52.400
think it was like originally Bliss and
then they moved it to Dougway and they

290
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.440
moved it back and forth a couple
of times. But you know, for

291
00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:00.640
all the guys that were senior to
me and in my platin, they had

292
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:04.160
gone to doug Way and that was
the hard one. Snowed every day and

293
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:08.960
you know even in the summer and
all that stuff. Eight feow. Yeah,

294
00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:15.279
but I did. I did Darby
Desert Desert, Darby Desert Mountains,

295
00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.920
Florida. That was my Ranger School
trajectory. Well, I mean, you

296
00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:22.720
must have been good at Ranger School
by then, Bro. I went to

297
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:26.720
Ranger School as I was an E
two when they sent me, and they

298
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:29.799
had to send promote me to E
three, I think, just so I

299
00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:33.559
could go. And yeah, I
did Derby a couple of times, a

300
00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:38.759
little extended training stay there, did
Christmas Exodus at Rangerston. Yeah, yeah,

301
00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:45.880
yeah, yeah. So I had
a I had a golden opportunity.

302
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:53.279
I got to B Company, third
Ranger Battalion in April of ninety one,

303
00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:57.559
and when I got there, I
was the twelfth guy in my squad.

304
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:04.000
So there were eleven dudes more senior
than me, and the majority of them

305
00:23:04.039 --> 00:23:12.279
privates. By September, we were
going through and I don't know if you

306
00:23:12.279 --> 00:23:15.440
remember these or if they call them
the same things, but it was like

307
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:25.279
platoon xtebs. So it was like
all we did was patrol Monday through Friday,

308
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:33.440
and it was miserable. And it
went from May through September. So

309
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:40.039
absolutely an ass kicker physically and in
the heat of the fourth Benning summer and

310
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:45.000
anyway, so by September, I'm
the fourth guy in my squad. There's

311
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:48.279
a squad leader to team leaders and
me. Everybody else was gone, either

312
00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:53.519
guys had gotten hurt or they had
quit or dui or whatever. I was

313
00:23:53.559 --> 00:24:00.160
the only one that passed our platoon
pre ranger PT test and they're all like,

314
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.839
all right, Thomas, you got
the golden opportunity here. You've been

315
00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:07.440
here five months and you're going to
ranger school. And I had no clue

316
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.519
what I was doing, zero clues. I was in etube they sent me.

317
00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:21.400
And when I got to Ranger school
there was guys from my platoon n

318
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:25.279
CEOs that had gotten DUIs that were
there and they're like, what the fuck

319
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:30.000
are you doing here? Like you
shouldn't be here yet, and kind of

320
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.039
called me out on stuff and they
had a field day with me, and

321
00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:38.319
yeah, I made for a miserable, absolutely miserable experience. So I was

322
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:44.680
telling my son that story and he
was like, man, aren't you like

323
00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:48.559
angry about how things turned out?
And you had to do so much extra

324
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:53.720
time and you know I basically failed
it, you know, and you know

325
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:59.480
there was no guarantee that I would
stay in the regiment and what was going

326
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:04.319
to happen and if you know who
knows? And interestingly, it was kind

327
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:10.880
of like everything in my life after
that would have been different had that event

328
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:15.880
not happened. Yeah, like you
wouldn't be here. Yeah, like nothing

329
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:22.559
would be the same. So these
things have this much greater impact then I

330
00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:26.079
think we can even recognize when it
happened. So although it was a failure

331
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:29.599
and it was something, you know, everything that came after that, I

332
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:33.400
wouldn't have been in Mogadishu the same
way that would have been. That would

333
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:34.839
have been different. Everything would have
been different. You know. It's a

334
00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:42.279
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357
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:29.200
So how did that work for you? What? What? Uh?

358
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:37.359
Were you recycled each time? Or
did you go back to battalion in between?

359
00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:44.759
So I did Darby Desert Desert,
and I begged my last patrol in

360
00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:51.920
desert phase. A guy wandered off
we were doing a split platoon, you

361
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:56.079
know, split squad type thing.
Wasn't with my element, but dude wandered

362
00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.480
off in the desert and was lost
for four or five hours, and I

363
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:03.920
got a no go for that,
and you know, rightfully, so whatever,

364
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:11.519
I begged for a day one recycle, and I remember going into the

365
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:17.279
company commander at the time and asking
him. I also got graded twice by

366
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:21.599
the same RI, which was supposed
to be not allowed. And I never

367
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:23.160
saw the guy give a go my
whole time there, so I'm not going

368
00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:29.160
to say. You know, I
did see him later in life in Fayetteville,

369
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:33.960
North Carolina, selling mattresses in sears, and I was going to go

370
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:36.759
up to him and ask him how
life was working out for him, but

371
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.240
I didn't. My my RI in
mountains, who know go would be and

372
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:47.200
again rightfully so ended up being a
NCO on scuba team down the hall from

373
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:52.079
being fifth group. He's a really
good guy. Yeah, yeah, I

374
00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:55.680
don't you know, there's no grudges
or anything like that. You know,

375
00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:00.400
you're you're doing a job and if
you saw me, you know a certain

376
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.920
way. Cool. Whatever, But
begged them for a day one recycle and

377
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:07.839
they're like, no, you're going
back. So I went back to B

378
00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:15.640
Company for maybe six eight weeks something
like that, and then went right back.

379
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:19.319
They sent me back to Pre Ranger
and then went back through. But

380
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:23.480
that was a talk about a low
point, yeah, you know, but

381
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:29.279
just thankful for the opportunity to be
able to go back. And probably wouldn't

382
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:32.720
have worked out that way if we
were still at the same strength we were

383
00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:34.559
when I got there. Yeah,
I would have gotten bounced down the road.

384
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:38.960
Yeah, I'll say, And I
don't know about saf because I've never

385
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:45.240
been to SFAs, but I'll say
one thing about Ranger School is that there

386
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:52.240
are a lot of guys who do
get screwed over like it. There are

387
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:56.519
there are the guardians of the tab
there for shore, who you know,

388
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.960
if they take disliking to somebody,
it's very hard for them to overcome that

389
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:10.240
sometimes. Yeah, you know,
so I got when you you know,

390
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:15.240
you're gaming everything and you know you're
getting G two from a guy that recycled

391
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:19.880
and information from people, and half
of it's bullshit, half of it isn't.

392
00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:26.240
And I remember from Pre Rangers showing
up at Ranger School and they're like

393
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:32.519
stand behind each other in a row
because they break down the companies and then

394
00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:36.240
that way you'll all be in the
same company together. So we did that,

395
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:38.799
and you know, all my pre
Ranger homies, and I'm in a

396
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:42.559
row of eleven guys, all from
the same pre Ranger class. We all

397
00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:47.680
know each other, and they start
breaking down what companies, what I'm in

398
00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:52.160
a company? And formation is complete. They're like, all right, march

399
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:57.599
back to your company areas. And
here comes my platoon sergeant from B company

400
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:02.680
three seven five, who's now an
ri out there? Whoa whoa, whoa

401
00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:10.200
whoa, whoa, whoa whoa?
Where's Thomas or B company? False motivation?

402
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:12.680
And he calls me out. He
goes, you're in C company,

403
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:18.160
now move your stuff down there.
So I pull my stuff out of formation

404
00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:21.960
and now I'm in with guys I
have no idea, don't know any of

405
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:27.799
them, and I get down there. We get information. They're signing,

406
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:32.039
okay, who here is E eight? Who hears E seven? Who hears

407
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:36.519
E six? And they're signing squad
leaders everything else. So they made me

408
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:41.359
the company first sergeant as an E
two. I don't know how to march

409
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:44.400
a company into the chow hall.
I don't know how to do any of

410
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:48.559
this stuff. And uh, they
just started pulling pranks on me, and

411
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:53.000
it just it was miserable and it
definitely affected you know. You think my

412
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:59.680
peers thought I was doing a good
job. It was horrible. Yeah.

413
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:04.160
As an example, they call me
in the tack, calls me in to

414
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:07.599
his office and he says, hey, first sergeant, I started in December

415
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:14.880
one, December, Hey, we
need five people from the company to stay

416
00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:19.759
back from Christmas leave. Go ahead
and go through those lead forms and pick

417
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:25.960
who you want to stay. Oh
my god, yeah, So I go,

418
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.640
well, I'll be one of them, you know. And then I

419
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:35.680
randomly pick four leave forms out of
the stack, and the dude just grabs

420
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:37.799
the lead forms and he walks out
into formation. He goes, all right,

421
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:43.279
so and so so and so so
and so so and so your first

422
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:50.359
sergeant picked you to stay back from
Christmas exodus to do details here. It

423
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:54.279
was just stuff like that. And
one day I signed eighteen major minuses,

424
00:32:55.359 --> 00:33:01.480
you know, which for a failure
to inspect because cat eyes were crooked on

425
00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:06.920
rocksacks. So while everybody in the
company is sitting in the bleachers getting a

426
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:10.519
class on how to do an ambush, I'm going through the rucksack formation,

427
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:15.359
you know, where everybody's grounded their
gear and those cat eyes are fucked up,

428
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:20.559
those are jacked up. Here sign
another major minus, not another major

429
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:23.920
minus. So I got eighteen major
minuses. And then at the end of

430
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:27.880
the phase, I was like,
there's no way I'm going on because you

431
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:34.160
can't have one major going on.
At the end of the phase, I'm

432
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.799
thinking, okay, well I'm recycling
Darby. This is gonna be great.

433
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:42.160
And they're like, we're going to
take a chance on you and send you

434
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.400
to desert phase. And it was
like, okay, awesome, I'm having

435
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:52.599
a great time. So that that
whole thing just kind of drug with me

436
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:57.799
to the next phase and then recycled
and you know whatever. So it's life,

437
00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:00.160
you know. I mean, it's
amazing though, that you that you

438
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:05.960
you know, that you kept your
spirits up enough to five months later or

439
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:12.360
I mean six or eight weeks later
like go back and uh like I think

440
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.719
too, It's like it's survival,
right, It's like I have to pass

441
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:22.719
this school to be in the ranger
regiment further than being a private so it's

442
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:25.320
the only thing I can do,
Like what there are no other you know

443
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:30.639
it's Yeah. The other the other
thing that I've talked to my son about

444
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:37.639
is the other untangible, intangible parts
of any selection process, timing and luck,

445
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:43.840
and you can't do and no matter
how much skill you have, if

446
00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:47.119
timing and luck don't line up and
aren't on your side, you're not going

447
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:51.719
to pass. Yeah, and that
was a huge thing. Yeah, I

448
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.400
feel like it probably worked out for
the better. I probably learned a lot

449
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:58.320
more. I probably got to meet, you know, and I did get

450
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:01.159
to meet a lot of other guys. There's a one dude my second time

451
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:06.880
through. He and I met in
We were in different platoons in b company,

452
00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:10.320
but we're still friends and still go
down to Benning together all the time

453
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:14.920
and go kick around the old barracks
and do all that kind of stuff.

454
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:22.400
But yeah, that's awesome. So
how long had you been back from Ranger

455
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:29.119
School? I tell you, guys, until mugged issue happened. So graduated.

456
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:37.480
I should have graduated February ninety one
and then ended up I think by

457
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:45.840
I was back in like March.
I think that summer I went to pre

458
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:50.079
Ranger, so it was like in
July went to pre Ranger and then started

459
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:54.320
in maybe August and graduated in November. So I went straight through the second

460
00:35:54.320 --> 00:36:00.360
time and I didn't have any like
zero issues. A second time through was

461
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:04.280
in a different company, and in
fact, the guy that was pulling all

462
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:07.519
the Shenanigans on me when when I
got there, the guy that had been

463
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:13.320
my platoon sergeant in B company like
apologized and he was like, hey man,

464
00:36:13.480 --> 00:36:15.280
we were just having fun with you, Like we didn't think it was

465
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:21.639
gonna be this whole thing, and
you know whatever. But went right through.

466
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:29.199
So graduated in November of ninety two. Had torn cartilage in my knee

467
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:31.440
and went, you know, all
the way through with a jacked up knee,

468
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:36.719
got back, got my knee scoped, kind of recovered from that,

469
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:42.360
and that's about when we were going
on the JRX in Texas, which is

470
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.519
where we got you know, sent
to go do the train up for Mogadishu

471
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:52.599
from there. So the timeline was
pretty quick, you know, and how

472
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:58.000
large because you mentioned that one of
the reasons you went to ranger school and

473
00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:01.280
then got sent back was because you
your platoon wasn't up to strength. Had

474
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:05.719
they filled that out by the time, like you guys were ready, No,

475
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:08.760
we were still you know maybe I
think five guys on my squad five

476
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:14.320
six guys and they had you know, moved some people around from different platoons,

477
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:17.440
but that was kind of across the
board, you know. The company

478
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:22.079
went from I think Panama had happened, and a lot of people saw that.

479
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:29.559
There was a huge push from Desert
Storm. So you know when I

480
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:32.760
when I joined in ninety, I
joined in May of ninety. We can't

481
00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:37.960
get you to basic training until November. That was like there was no way

482
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:42.480
they could get me there any faster. Don't tell them you did drugs,

483
00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:45.840
right, you know, like you
can't talk about anything not taking you.

484
00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:51.280
And the army was very selective.
They almost didn't take me because I was

485
00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:54.360
allergic to milk when I was a
kid, and that was this huge like

486
00:37:54.519 --> 00:38:00.480
Waiver had to go have doctors write
all kinds of notes and say, you

487
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:02.000
know, it wasn't going to affect
me, blah blah blah blah blah.

488
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:08.679
So I think the Desert Storm push
was where So when I showed up to

489
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:15.360
Rip as an example and Rip holdover, we had bunk cots. I've never

490
00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:20.039
seen them before and I've never seen
them since. But we were in a

491
00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:24.400
four man room and so there's you
know, eight dudes in bunk beds and

492
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:30.559
then there were two bunk cots in
the middle of the room and just jammed

493
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:36.119
full. So we started with like
three hundred you know, three hundred whatever

494
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:42.400
and finished with like seventy Wow,
And that was that was my rip class.

495
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:46.719
Wow. I've never heard abounk cots
the other Yeah, A ton of

496
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:52.239
fund, a ton of fun living
out of a D bag. That's why

497
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:54.320
I would pick three seven five to
go. So I was like, I

498
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:58.280
don't feel like packing this D bag
and moving anywhere else. Like, I'll

499
00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:01.719
walk right over there. I can
see the three seventy five. Oh you

500
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:13.280
wasn't punishment for something? No,
no, no, interesting? So what

501
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:15.519
was the work up to? Like, like, did you know what was

502
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:19.400
going was there? Did you know
what was going on in Moga issue?

503
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:24.280
Did was there like this awareness uh
in the country in the military for you

504
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:31.440
guys, No zero of that.
I remember being a little kid and seeing

505
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:37.159
something on sixty minutes. This must
have been like the early eighties, maybe

506
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:40.719
late seventies, and there was something
about Somalia, and so I remember hearing,

507
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:45.840
you know and knowing kind of roughly
where it was on the continent,

508
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:52.199
but there was nothing, which is
sparked a lot of conversations about somebody in

509
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:59.679
the Ranger regiment knew more than you
know, and and I found out a

510
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:06.679
of interesting information. For example,
first BAT did a whole train up during

511
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:13.039
the summer of ninety three to go
do that mission, but like that word

512
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:15.159
never got to us at one seven
five. And I don't even think that

513
00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:20.599
they knew that they were training up
for something. I think I've heard weird

514
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:23.519
stuff like that, like that they
had guys training up for Haiti and nobody

515
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:29.480
understood what they were training up for
until after it almost happened. Yeah,

516
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:34.360
yeah, so interesting on that.
I've also heard another story from a guy

517
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:39.079
who is like Rip Cadre or pre
Ranger cadre I think when I went through

518
00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:44.119
Rip, but he was like his
name was kind of famous for being one

519
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:50.199
of those guys in a legend,
dude JB. Spizo, And he told

520
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:55.280
me a story about from two seven
to five that they jumped into downtown Mogadishu,

521
00:40:55.639 --> 00:41:00.000
did a show of force, walked
through the city, walked to the

522
00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:05.800
airfield, got on a plane and
flew away in nineteen eighty four, And

523
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:09.079
it's true story. You can actually
google it and find it. And I

524
00:41:09.159 --> 00:41:13.480
was like mind blown when I heard
that, Like, you got to be

525
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:20.519
kidding me. In eighty four yeah, yeah, yeah, never knew it.

526
00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:25.679
So anyway, to answer the question
a little further, nobody had any

527
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:31.239
We had no idea. I hadn't
heard any anything about anything. At some

528
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:35.480
point during the j r X and
I think we were there like almost a

529
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:38.079
month in total, it may have
been three weeks. I don't remember exactly,

530
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:45.119
but at some point leadership you know, pulled all of us into the

531
00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:51.239
tent, the command tent, and
was like, all right, here's the

532
00:41:51.280 --> 00:41:55.280
deal. There's something going on.
We've been providing aid, you know,

533
00:41:55.400 --> 00:42:00.760
to this country and the warlords are
fighting and they're stealing the aid and they're

534
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:05.280
killing you in you know, peacekeepers, and there are some Americans that have

535
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:09.719
been killed, and the president wants
to potentially go do this thing. And

536
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:13.480
so that was kind of it.
Yeah, just kind of like a hey,

537
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:16.079
there's something up. And a couple
of days went by. It could

538
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:22.320
have been the next day, I
don't remember, but it turned into Hey,

539
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:25.159
we're going to go do this and
going to go do this. Train

540
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:30.159
up and be prepared to go do
it, which still didn't mean we're going

541
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:35.159
to go It's just more like we're
going to be more prepared to go stand

542
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:38.800
by, to stand by if the
word comes. Yeah, And that's that's

543
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:43.800
kind of the way it rolled out. That's interesting. So what what was

544
00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:49.480
what was a train up like for
Somalia? I mean, did you have

545
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:54.000
area experts come in? Wasn't mostly
just everybody, you know? It wasn't

546
00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:00.719
more like a like a training exercise
in terms of like a non dependent training

547
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:07.639
or Yeah, we didn't get any
like detailed information. I don't remember seeing

548
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:12.719
a map of anything, you know, picking specific locations or any of that.

549
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:16.079
It was more like, here's here's
the thing, and here's how we're

550
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:20.920
going to go do this. Let's
practice how we're going to go do this.

551
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:27.440
And so we spent eight or ten
days at Fort Bragg practicing, you

552
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:30.000
know, here's how we're going to
go do this. We learned a lot

553
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:35.559
of simple things like have a glow
in the dark, you know, dry

554
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:39.400
erace type of device, you know, acetated blowing the dark thing with the

555
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:44.599
grease pencils, so we could pass
around notes in the helo, you know,

556
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:49.800
and I like, I like to
remind people of just the difference and

557
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:53.480
capability of back then, right,
because everybody's seen, you know, the

558
00:43:53.599 --> 00:44:00.800
dude with the four tube nods and
you didn't have liked not even radios,

559
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:06.519
you know, so just the ability
to communicate amongst one another, we didn't

560
00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:08.760
even have that, you know.
So we learned a lot of those and

561
00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:13.800
kind of worked out all the bugs
on that that type of thing. The

562
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:16.880
actual how we went and did it
was just kind of the same. It

563
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:22.320
was repetitive, and it was just
in different environments, in different conditions and

564
00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:25.239
different Okay, now this happened.
You know, we're going to bump an

565
00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:30.360
aircraft. Now you're going from this
aircraft to that aircraft, so combining of

566
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:34.880
chalks and these guys are getting cut
or you know whatever, that type of

567
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:39.519
thing. So practicing contingencies and things
like that. But yeah, it wasn't

568
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:47.199
we got basically because we're rangers and
disciplined. We got to stay intense out

569
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:52.559
on the other side of like Fort
Bragg in the middle of the pine trees

570
00:44:52.760 --> 00:45:00.199
every night like humid as balls,
thunderstorms, like lightning clapping off all all

571
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:06.360
around you, and our d bags
and rucksacks had to be stowed underneath our

572
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:08.239
cots, you know, because we
didn't want to look fucked up, right,

573
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:13.960
So, uh, tent floods out
like every night. So you've got

574
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.599
your stuff like hanging up like a
gypsy camp all over the place during the

575
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:21.519
day while you're training, come back
and have to like you know, collect

576
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:24.440
up all your things and make sure
everything's dried out. It was like every

577
00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:28.760
day that was happening. So it
was a wind but we got to use

578
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:35.360
the PX once. Super cool.
I mean how they make the suck part

579
00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:38.639
of the experience, right, Like
we're going to stand out in the rain

580
00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:42.960
for like an hour and then you
can put your wet weather gear. Yeah

581
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:46.320
exactly, I know. Okay,
yeah, what now? You know?

582
00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:52.800
What was the mission for the Rangers, the best light infantry in the world

583
00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:55.960
at the time, you know,
as I think they like to be known

584
00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:00.440
at the time. What was the
mission in a Union vironment like you know,

585
00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:07.119
Somalia, Mogadishue. So I don't
know, I'm not well read on

586
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:14.480
the entirety of the operation. I
don't mean Blackhawk Down or but just Unism

587
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:22.599
too was a separate portion of whatever
the name was for the UN mission or

588
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:27.960
the US's involvement in the UN mission, So I don't remember what that was.

589
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:35.159
Uh Unism too, you know,
was a separate thing. And you

590
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:38.320
know, our job there was just
to provide security for the assault force,

591
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:44.480
and you know that's what we did, whether it was vehicular kind of further

592
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:47.559
out or closer to the target building
or whatever, but that was that was

593
00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:52.079
our job there, right, And
then we did a lot of you know,

594
00:46:53.360 --> 00:46:57.199
it never gets talked about, but
the number of missions that we actually

595
00:46:57.199 --> 00:47:00.880
did there, I was just about
the seven or eight not to mention,

596
00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:06.639
Hey, we need to bring this
guy to the UN compound so that he

597
00:47:06.679 --> 00:47:08.880
can have a high level meeting with
so and so, and we've got a

598
00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:13.360
pride. Security for that was like
daily stuff. You know, things were

599
00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:16.000
going on. So you know,
we were doing a lot of driving through

600
00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:21.760
the city and a lot of cruising
around and signature flights every night and things

601
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:27.079
like that. So you know,
I think people think of that whole experience.

602
00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:30.480
We're there more than sixty days.
I think about sixty five days,

603
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:34.639
and we did a ton of stuff. What was that like like in that

604
00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:37.920
era's range of battalion, like a
combat mission is a big deal in nineteen

605
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:44.440
ninety three. Yeah, so you
know, trying to explain those days to

606
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:50.400
difficult. You know, a generation
of people that spent twenty two years fighting

607
00:47:50.679 --> 00:47:53.920
in the g want you know,
it's kind of hard to convey that.

608
00:47:55.920 --> 00:48:00.880
You know, most of the people
that serve in the eighties and nineties didn't

609
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:07.079
see combat, right, Like,
probably the large majority didn't see anything.

610
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:10.719
And you know, if your company
wasn't picked or your group wasn't picked or

611
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:15.159
whatever it might be, you're you're
not going to see any of that.

612
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:19.000
Yeah, maybe you got in on
Panama, maybe you got to do a

613
00:48:19.039 --> 00:48:22.400
training pump down to you know,
Honduras or something like that. Yeah,

614
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:27.440
so we, you know, were
fortunate enough to get that. And I

615
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:34.599
remember we got may have been our
very first mission. We got in a

616
00:48:34.639 --> 00:48:40.719
pretty pretty good gunfight, and we
were in a blocking position, kind of

617
00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:45.760
facing outwards, and it was kind
of on a main drag, and there

618
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:49.599
was a stadium behind us, which
wasn't the stadium that we ended up in,

619
00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:53.239
Vitios Soccer stadium. It was where
idd gave all of his speeches and

620
00:48:53.280 --> 00:49:00.400
things like that. And there were
twelve guys that had come up behind us,

621
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:04.239
and there were these cinder block walls
and I'm like this is something I'll

622
00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:07.400
never forget. The center block was
like that decorative cinder block that it had

623
00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:14.400
like gaps, and these knucklehead stuck
their guns through there and some RPGs,

624
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:17.679
but they couldn't really traverse the weapons, so there was a hell of a

625
00:49:17.719 --> 00:49:22.920
lot of gunfire coming from there.
But anyway, we got in that,

626
00:49:22.599 --> 00:49:30.320
and afterwards I remember having the conversation
about do you think we'll get cibs for

627
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:31.840
that? You know, if this
is the best that happened, if this

628
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:36.760
is the biggest gunfight we got in, are we going to get cibs for

629
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:38.559
that? Or is this just a
combat scroll? Are we even going to

630
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:44.360
get a combat scroll? Are the
guys that were flying around in helicopters are

631
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:50.239
they going to get it for?
You know, nobody really knew and what

632
00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:53.679
I was told at some point later
and I can't remember by who, but

633
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:59.280
somebody who must have had some information, the plan for us was it would

634
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:02.960
have been combat that scroll only up
until October third, so you know,

635
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:09.360
multiple gun fights and things that mortared, you know, interesting and up until

636
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:14.039
that point it would have been combat
scroll only. And I think that people

637
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:19.440
like listening to this, people might
not appreciate that in a peacetime military,

638
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:27.760
having the combat scroll, having the
CIB like they're really it's they're really big

639
00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:31.119
deals, like when you'd see like
grenade rangers walking around or you know,

640
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:37.239
the guys from Panama with their scrolls, like like it's a big deal.

641
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:40.639
So of course that's going to be
the conversation that that you guys have after

642
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:44.920
a massive firefeit. It's so I
mean, like you said, man,

643
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:50.119
it's so difficult to explain what that
culture must have been like prior to nine

644
00:50:50.119 --> 00:50:52.400
to eleven, right, and maybe
we're somewhat going back to that now.

645
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:55.320
I mean, I imagine there's a
lot of guys out there who don't have

646
00:50:55.400 --> 00:51:02.679
CIDs and in special ops units.
Yeah, it's it's definitely interesting. But

647
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:07.159
I remember, you know, one
of the other things, it's like a

648
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:13.800
standout just of that event and kind
of bigger picture but getting back and you

649
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:17.000
know, the aftermath of everything and
it kind of being like, hey,

650
00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:21.679
we're all n c os now,
like we know what we need to do

651
00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:28.119
to train our guys properly, and
we know what's important now because we've seen

652
00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:34.800
it firsthand. And the mentality was
all right, good job, glad you

653
00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:37.559
guys are back. You know,
now you can get back to real ranger

654
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:40.760
right as sure your boots are shine
and all that stuff. And you think

655
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:47.400
about like the professional jealousy. You
know, so you're talking about one company

656
00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:52.639
and when they talk about there was
a platoon from another company that came over,

657
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:55.559
but it was like key people.
It was like a platoon of medex

658
00:51:57.440 --> 00:52:00.840
fos, you know, maybe a
handful of squad leaders people like that.

659
00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:05.000
It wasn't an entire platoon that were
you know, there were some guys there

660
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:08.920
that got chalked away to do extra
bodies on the Cesar bird and things like

661
00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:15.760
that. But if you think about
out of the entire Ranger regiment and however

662
00:52:15.800 --> 00:52:21.639
many people that was at the time, there's one hundred and twenty guys maybe

663
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:24.880
that experienced this thing. And it
was kind of like, yeah, we

664
00:52:24.920 --> 00:52:29.480
don't really want to Yeah, we
don't want to talk about that. Let's

665
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:32.119
let's get back to the real stuff
patrolling. It doesn't need a road marks

666
00:52:32.719 --> 00:52:37.159
stand to and you know all those
kinds of things that you know, we

667
00:52:37.239 --> 00:52:42.159
all laughed at. From that point, Let's let's talk a little bit about

668
00:52:42.559 --> 00:52:46.159
more on that on the aftermath,
because I think unless there's something that specifically

669
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:51.719
you'd like to get into about the
battle itself. I'd like to ask you

670
00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:54.920
sort of about the cultural impact that
that had on the military and on the

671
00:52:54.960 --> 00:52:59.599
guys who were there, and sort
of how that changed. But like you

672
00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:04.360
talked about a little bit sullific getting
swept under the rug too. Yeah,

673
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:10.599
I think that our company did a
really good job of kind of getting rid

674
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:15.199
of a lot of the dumb stuff. And I'll give you an example.

675
00:53:16.039 --> 00:53:21.360
And this isn't necessarily like a tangible
thing that had to do with our preparedness

676
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:25.800
for war, but in a way
it does. Her first sergeant, you

677
00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:30.800
know, if you were married,
you know, had your family support group

678
00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:36.000
meeting and all that stuff. And
I remember my buddy who I went to

679
00:53:36.039 --> 00:53:38.360
pre ranger with that I still communicate
with and still hang out with down at

680
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:44.320
Benning and stuff like that. At
the very end of the meeting, you

681
00:53:44.360 --> 00:53:46.440
know, the first Argeant's kind of
wrapping things up, and she's like,

682
00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:54.039
I have a question, Yes,
first Sergeant, what exactly is the word?

683
00:53:54.159 --> 00:54:00.280
And why is my husband waiting on
it? At true story? And

684
00:54:00.920 --> 00:54:05.320
he goes, you know what,
it's a damn good question, and I'm

685
00:54:05.320 --> 00:54:07.719
gonna do my best that if we
got nothing going on, we're gonna get

686
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:13.440
we're gonna get people out of here
and done for the day. And he

687
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:15.360
held true to his word, you
know, and that was that was kind

688
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:22.159
of the first the start of the
culture being you know what, it's there's

689
00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:27.239
no point in sitting here in the
barracks waiting for the platoon sergeant meeting to

690
00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:31.400
be completed right down there drinking beers
and whatever, and we're just the privates

691
00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:37.280
are up here getting smoked and you
know, there's no nothing of value happening

692
00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:43.119
at that point, right, And
that started it. And then the leadership

693
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:45.679
some of like the platoon leader that
came in to replace my platoon leader at

694
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:50.760
the time. You know, imagine
what he's walking into. Here's a platoon

695
00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:55.480
of dudes that just did this thing. And he was very respectful of the

696
00:54:55.519 --> 00:54:59.480
whole thing, like you tell me
what you guys think you need to do,

697
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:01.960
and also it and I'm like,
wow, this is kind of like

698
00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:07.760
a change. Yeah. So I
was in an interesting spot. I had

699
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:14.559
told my chain of command prior to
going to the JRX in Texas that hey,

700
00:55:14.599 --> 00:55:16.320
I'm out of here. I want
to go to the recon detachment,

701
00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:22.440
and the selection for that was actually
in October ninety three, so like cool,

702
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:25.360
after the JRX, when you get
back, you can start your train

703
00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:29.239
up for that selection. Whatever that
entailed. It may have been like a

704
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:34.719
week off or something. I don't
remember, but anyway, it was supposed

705
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:37.440
to do that in October ninety three, and I don't think that they ran

706
00:55:37.480 --> 00:55:44.480
a selection course that that fall,
but anyway, it was just something I

707
00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:47.880
remember. So for people who might
not know, I mean, let's talk

708
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:53.000
about the word for a second.
What was the word and why were you

709
00:55:53.079 --> 00:55:57.800
waiting around for it? The word
is closely attached to the poop. Yeah,

710
00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:00.559
it's also the poop, Yeah,
poop the word. So the word

711
00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:06.599
the word was basically, you know, the first sergeant is meeting with the

712
00:56:06.599 --> 00:56:10.880
platoon sergeants and they're talking about training
events. They're talking about you know,

713
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:16.840
probably big level stuff, and what
that would translate to is squads, squad

714
00:56:16.920 --> 00:56:22.639
leaders, team leaders, privates sitting
around in the barracks waiting for the word

715
00:56:22.679 --> 00:56:28.159
to be returned, which was hey, zero six, first call, six

716
00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:32.239
thirty pt right, So we would
sit around for hours waiting for them to

717
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:37.079
come and release us. Yeah,
and that's what it was, you know,

718
00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:45.119
so almost as much fun as training
to time and not standard Yeah.

719
00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:49.880
So for because we didn't really talk
about the battle much. But for people

720
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:52.559
who I mean probably people everybody's seen
black Cock Down and whatnot. Can you

721
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:58.440
tell from your experience if if it
got things really right, if it got

722
00:56:58.440 --> 00:57:07.039
things really wrong. So I can't
say that, I've like read the book

723
00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:15.159
and I don't think that there's any
intent to that other than like I know

724
00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:22.119
what I did and talking with my
buddies in different platoons and in different groups.

725
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:27.880
It took us the better part of
you know, eighteen months after the

726
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:32.880
event to really be able to kind
of piece together exactly what happened. There

727
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:37.440
was no big hot wash, you
know, hey, what happened. Nobody

728
00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:42.280
was a part of anything like that. I'm sure at other levels there were

729
00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:47.519
you know, talking Joint Assault Force, you know, Security Force, air

730
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:52.039
assets, and I'm sure that there
was some sort of hot wash at that

731
00:57:52.159 --> 00:57:55.480
level, but we really never had
anything. I'm not sure that there was.

732
00:57:58.239 --> 00:58:01.320
Yeh, I know that there were
from the air side that there were

733
00:58:01.400 --> 00:58:07.280
some things that happened that they wanted
to bring out and it wasn't allowed to

734
00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:14.320
be brought out, you know,
not my story to tell, but yeah,

735
00:58:14.360 --> 00:58:19.039
it was just kind of so when
I saw the movie, I recognized

736
00:58:20.159 --> 00:58:25.960
even before seeing it. I got
invited to a private screening and Ridley Scott

737
00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:32.519
was there, Jerry Bruckheimer, Will
Fickner, one of the actors, and

738
00:58:32.679 --> 00:58:39.039
Mark Bowden. And so to back
that up further, I had gone to

739
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:49.360
selection for the special Mission unit in
North Carolina and I had been selected right

740
00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:55.360
about the time that the whole Philadelphia
Online Inquirer article started being and I was

741
00:58:55.400 --> 00:59:01.280
waiting. My wife at the time
was due with our first child, and

742
00:59:01.360 --> 00:59:06.360
so they had told me, don't
come up for the operator training course,

743
00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:13.119
wait until your son's born, daughter, whatever, and come up to the

744
00:59:13.159 --> 00:59:17.519
next one. So I'm in like
a four month old more or less.

745
00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:23.519
And so the the articles start dropping
and people are all over this thing,

746
00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:30.079
and it's the talk of the town
because you know, online stuff is new,

747
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:35.039
and definitely people are weighing in that
shouldn't be weighing in, and there

748
00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:38.519
were some unit people that were weighing
in and that was an issue and everything

749
00:59:38.559 --> 00:59:44.679
else. I got a call from
Mark Bowden at my house, who had

750
00:59:44.800 --> 00:59:47.199
gotten my number from someone else that
he had talked to Hey, I need

751
00:59:47.199 --> 00:59:51.960
to talk to you about a couple
of critical moments that you're involved with,

752
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:57.000
and I said, I would love
to talk to you, but here's my

753
00:59:57.159 --> 01:00:00.039
situation, and I don't want to
do something and talk to someone that I'm

754
01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:06.320
not supposed to talk to and screw
up this opportunity that I've got to go

755
01:00:06.440 --> 01:00:12.639
to where I want to go.
Let me ask and find out if it's

756
01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:16.159
okay, and then I'll get back
with you. So I talk with the

757
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:22.159
USU socc Public affairs people and they
said, absolutely, do not talk with

758
01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:29.679
him. We're going to try and
squash this whole thing. Don't talk with

759
01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:32.599
him. Absolutely not. So I
call him back. He calls me and

760
01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:37.400
I can't remember which and I say, hey, man, I would love

761
01:00:37.480 --> 01:00:43.960
to talk to you, but I
got told no. So I'm sure that

762
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:51.480
okay. So peel back that onion
a little further. Like if that story,

763
01:00:51.800 --> 01:00:54.079
if that book, if that movie
was in the court of law,

764
01:00:54.639 --> 01:01:02.440
it would never uphold because it's largely
hearsay. I heard this guy did that.

765
01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:07.880
I heard from so and so that
he was here and did these things.

766
01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:15.559
I think the timeline is very accurate, and I think that there are

767
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:19.400
things that are kind of set in
stone that there probably isn't a whole lot

768
01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:23.599
of debate. I recognize going to
see the screening, and you know,

769
01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:28.280
before even thinking about going to see
the screening and knowing that a movie was

770
01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:32.559
coming out, you can't make one
hundred and twenty people and have one hundred

771
01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:37.679
and twenty characters in the movie.
They're going to distill this down to the

772
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:43.519
bar essentials and slash. Yeah.
So this guy does fifty things, right,

773
01:01:43.639 --> 01:01:46.079
Really, that's an example of fifty
different events that happened to fifty different

774
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:50.599
people combining it. Like, I
get all that. I also get that

775
01:01:50.639 --> 01:01:54.280
it's an eighteen hour battle. We're
compressing that into a ninety minute format.

776
01:01:54.599 --> 01:02:00.440
You know. I'm happy the story
was told. I think that that's been

777
01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:05.519
an incredible thing. And just so
that people know and the number of people

778
01:02:05.559 --> 01:02:13.320
that that touched that Jason Everman are
are are you know? Third party friend?

779
01:02:14.119 --> 01:02:15.960
He joined because of that, you
know, because of that event that

780
01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:20.960
was the impetus for him joining,
and how many other people, thousands and

781
01:02:21.039 --> 01:02:24.239
thousands of people to join the military
because of that, you know. So

782
01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:30.760
I'm glad it was told accurate in
terms of events and how it happened and

783
01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:34.760
how it played out and things like
that. I think it's pretty accurate.

784
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:43.400
I don't think that it did justice
to how barbaric it was and how up

785
01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:46.760
close and personal things were. That's, you know, the first thing that

786
01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:51.920
kind of stood out was, you
know, getting a little anxiety watching this

787
01:02:52.039 --> 01:02:54.599
and they're getting ready to roll in
and you kind of know what's happening.

788
01:02:55.760 --> 01:03:05.599
I don't think that it accurately can
evade the absolute chaos that happened. And

789
01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:12.760
when I look back twenty twenty three, ME can see the failures at just

790
01:03:12.960 --> 01:03:17.400
so many levels. Nineteen ninety three
me, you know, hey man,

791
01:03:17.440 --> 01:03:21.320
we made it happen, and it
was great and we got through it,

792
01:03:21.400 --> 01:03:24.119
and you know, we kicked our
ass and there are X amount of thousands

793
01:03:24.119 --> 01:03:29.199
of them dead and we only lost
eighteen and blah blah blah and all of

794
01:03:29.199 --> 01:03:32.440
that. But when I see,
you know, twenty twenty three, ME

795
01:03:32.519 --> 01:03:39.159
looks back and says, we had
no contingency for what happens if the volume

796
01:03:39.159 --> 01:03:45.360
of gunfire is such that we can't
communicate, Like, how do I tell

797
01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:51.880
my guys what we're doing when there's
that much shit flying through the air and

798
01:03:51.920 --> 01:03:54.960
it's that loud. How do I
convey that? Do we get inside of

799
01:03:55.039 --> 01:04:00.480
building and talk somewhere safe so that
people know what's going on? And that's

800
01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:04.559
not what happened. It was just
everything running a muck, having no idea.

801
01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:11.079
So as an example, first time
I got out of the vehicle and

802
01:04:11.159 --> 01:04:15.599
I started engaging people, I think
I'm at the target building. Now we're

803
01:04:15.639 --> 01:04:18.760
not even close to the target building. Like we fought our way to the

804
01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:24.320
target building, and then we got
to the target building, my vehicle left

805
01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:29.719
and drove down the road and I
ended up having to Singleton down to link

806
01:04:29.800 --> 01:04:31.599
up with the vehicle. I had
no idea what was going on. It's

807
01:04:31.599 --> 01:04:35.719
not like, hey, here's what's
going on. You know, we're going

808
01:04:35.800 --> 01:04:41.320
to go do this. When we
went to go pick up Blackburn and Casey

809
01:04:41.440 --> 01:04:45.559
Joyce was killed, Yeah, so
Blackburn, it's a kid that fell out

810
01:04:45.559 --> 01:04:47.559
of that halo. We went to
go pick him up. I had no

811
01:04:47.599 --> 01:04:51.239
idea. I thought we were X
filling, like mission over, we're headed

812
01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:57.519
back right, So just to kind
of convey the chaos and not having a

813
01:04:57.639 --> 01:05:01.119
radio, not having any situational awayareness
to what was going on, what you're

814
01:05:01.159 --> 01:05:04.599
doing, Nobody had a chance and
it's not like we could even talk.

815
01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:10.800
You see people's lips moving and screaming
and people yelling and stuff, but that

816
01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:16.280
was about it. So I don't
know if the movie necessarily, you know,

817
01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:20.039
captured that. Yeah, the gravity
of this situation. Right, I've

818
01:05:20.079 --> 01:05:27.400
been in a lot of gunfights since, and I never felt like I felt

819
01:05:27.400 --> 01:05:30.519
there, right, just not even
in the same I mean, shit could

820
01:05:30.519 --> 01:05:35.199
be going sideways, a helo crash, a helo shot down, QRF is

821
01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:39.920
being called, all this stuff might
be happening, and I'm like, yeah,

822
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:44.679
we got this, you know,
totally different situation. This was completely

823
01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:48.039
different and unlike anything that I ever
you know, saw after that out there

824
01:05:48.079 --> 01:05:54.000
flapping. Yeah, do you think
what do you This might be asking you

825
01:05:54.039 --> 01:05:57.039
to sort of guess and you might
not want to guess. So, but

826
01:05:57.320 --> 01:06:02.360
why do you think that USUSA was
trying to squash it? Was it a

827
01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:06.480
military thing that they didn't want people
to know the details? Do you think

828
01:06:06.519 --> 01:06:16.519
they were getting pressure politically? Because
I don't think if I'll defend them in

829
01:06:16.599 --> 01:06:21.199
this and say it was kind of
unprecedented, right, so Panama happened,

830
01:06:21.239 --> 01:06:26.800
It's not like we had all this
footage and their CNN, right, there

831
01:06:26.880 --> 01:06:30.199
and seeing people drag through the streets
and all that. I don't think.

832
01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:34.639
I don't think we had the same
kind of you know, connectivity and the

833
01:06:34.639 --> 01:06:39.920
Internet, you know, developing years
later and becoming a thing allowed him to

834
01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:43.079
kind of piece together a lot of
the book and a lot of the story

835
01:06:43.079 --> 01:06:46.599
in a different way. I don't
think that use of SOAC, if that's

836
01:06:46.679 --> 01:06:51.760
the approving authority of something, I
don't think that they had any idea how

837
01:06:51.800 --> 01:06:57.960
to deal with something. There's no
class in that, you know. I

838
01:06:58.000 --> 01:07:00.760
think much of that applies to this
day. That, yeah, they still

839
01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:04.679
have difficulties dealing with the media and
don't understand and think like we can just

840
01:07:05.039 --> 01:07:09.559
this will all just go away,
This will just turn it away. Yeah,

841
01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:14.119
and if we apply enough pressure on
someone, you know, maybe bring

842
01:07:14.119 --> 01:07:17.760
our we have attorneys and maybe try
and you know, seasoned desist or whatever.

843
01:07:17.840 --> 01:07:23.119
You know. I don't even know. I'm you know, speculating there.

844
01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:28.119
But I've talked with Mark Bowden since
then, and I was trying to

845
01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:35.079
put together for the thirtieth anniversary,
which just happened. I was trying to

846
01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:40.960
put together I didn't want it to
be a podcast, but I was trying

847
01:07:40.960 --> 01:07:45.159
to put together a mechanism for how
to tell some of these like really incredible

848
01:07:45.239 --> 01:07:51.519
stories of not war stories, but
kind of other stuff that happened that people

849
01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:57.519
aren't familiar with or know about.
And again, some of them aren't really

850
01:07:57.519 --> 01:08:01.360
my story to tell. But the
only way that I felt like I could

851
01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:04.960
tell all these stories was through like
a podcast, because you could have different

852
01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:12.000
people on, you can kind of
let the conversation evolve, not like a

853
01:08:12.039 --> 01:08:15.079
book where it's like hear him writing
about what this guy experienced or something like

854
01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:20.600
that. And anyway, kind of
got everything lined up for that. I

855
01:08:20.640 --> 01:08:26.760
talked to Mark Bowden would he be
interested in participating. He was absolutely yes,

856
01:08:28.199 --> 01:08:30.199
And really one of the things that
I wanted to talk to him about

857
01:08:30.399 --> 01:08:39.000
was the hollywoodization of real people.
So, you know, Matt Eversman being

858
01:08:39.920 --> 01:08:45.359
the main Ranger character, Josh hartenz
Kim or Josh Hartnett, who did a

859
01:08:45.399 --> 01:08:48.760
really good job of portraying the guy
you know, like really did a great

860
01:08:48.840 --> 01:08:54.680
job of portraying him and kind of
his mannerisms and everything else. You know,

861
01:08:54.840 --> 01:08:59.439
went out on the initial assault and
never went back out after the initial

862
01:08:59.439 --> 01:09:06.359
assault. And so imagine being mad
and being asked by everyone that knows that

863
01:09:06.399 --> 01:09:11.920
you were there, you know,
hey when this happened, Well, it

864
01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:15.439
wasn't really there, you know,
no that really didn't know. That was

865
01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:17.960
somebody else that was you know,
did they have to pay him wife rights

866
01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:20.800
to use his name like that in
the movie. No, I don't think

867
01:09:20.840 --> 01:09:24.680
so. I mean I got my
name got used in the movie, and

868
01:09:25.159 --> 01:09:30.720
I didn't participate in any way as
Brad Thomas. Yeah really yeah. Well

869
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:33.279
the other thing though, is that
you know, if people, if people

870
01:09:33.279 --> 01:09:39.000
in the community, people who were
there or whatever, like yeah, but

871
01:09:39.680 --> 01:09:43.479
if they're like, hey, like
what did you tell Walden that like you

872
01:09:43.520 --> 01:09:45.680
were there the whole time? He's
like, I, like, I told

873
01:09:45.720 --> 01:09:48.760
him exactly what I did. Well, Bowden didn't make the movie really,

874
01:09:48.800 --> 01:09:53.439
Scott. Yeah, yeah, it's
when I adapted from the book and all

875
01:09:53.479 --> 01:09:57.279
of that. But it just from
my perspective, how did he gather information?

876
01:09:57.520 --> 01:10:00.600
How many people did he talk to? I was really cute says to

877
01:10:00.680 --> 01:10:03.479
how what was his process? Right? When did you know when did he

878
01:10:03.560 --> 01:10:08.520
find out? When did he know
who he was going to use and you

879
01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:11.399
know who he wasn't going to use
or any of that. Yeah, I

880
01:10:11.439 --> 01:10:15.439
thought that that would have been an
interesting perspective to being able to tell that

881
01:10:15.600 --> 01:10:19.079
story, yeah, for sure.
And then another part of it was going

882
01:10:19.159 --> 01:10:24.840
to be like kind of before what
was life in the Ranger regiment, like

883
01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:29.359
prior to nineteen ninety three, and
you kind of can't really tell the story

884
01:10:29.479 --> 01:10:32.880
without going back in time a little
bit and talking about, you know,

885
01:10:32.960 --> 01:10:39.520
the differences of how dumb we were
and how nothing really made any sense and

886
01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:44.520
our PT program was horrible, and
you know, we talk about that now

887
01:10:44.560 --> 01:10:47.319
with some of the young kids that
are in I'm like, yeah, so

888
01:10:47.399 --> 01:10:49.680
check it out. If you fell
out of the run, you did remedial

889
01:10:49.840 --> 01:10:55.720
PTE in the afternoon after lunch,
so imagine being in the state of breakdown,

890
01:10:56.239 --> 01:10:59.000
right, and then hey, you
know you couldn't run a six minute

891
01:10:59.039 --> 01:11:03.159
mile. So we're gonna do another
run this after right, and then tomorrow

892
01:11:03.199 --> 01:11:08.279
morning we're gonna get up and run
again every day. You know. So,

893
01:11:08.319 --> 01:11:12.840
did this ever, this series ever
come about? No, it didn't,

894
01:11:12.920 --> 01:11:15.199
And there were a lot of really
good stories, and there were a

895
01:11:15.199 --> 01:11:23.319
couple of reasons it didn't. One
like reliving that stuff, it's not like

896
01:11:26.399 --> 01:11:32.239
it puts me personally in a headspace. That's it's not like I'm walking around

897
01:11:32.359 --> 01:11:38.039
suicidal or anything like that. It's
just, man, it's not a fun

898
01:11:38.079 --> 01:11:42.319
subject. I want to day right
and then have to talk about And then

899
01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:45.119
we discovered this thing and now we
need to try and get this guy on

900
01:11:45.239 --> 01:11:51.439
and last summer, so this all
kind of conceptualized last summer. Ended up

901
01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:58.039
spending almost all of July and August
in the studio recording an album. And

902
01:11:58.800 --> 01:12:01.520
when that got settled, you know, people don't understand the amount of work

903
01:12:01.520 --> 01:12:06.199
that goes into recording is one part
of actually, you know, releasing an

904
01:12:06.239 --> 01:12:13.039
album. You've got artwork, You've
got all the mixing, all the mastering,

905
01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:16.000
all of the hey we need a
strip vocal version for this thing.

906
01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:21.279
We have all the social media stuff
like it's it is a monster. And

907
01:12:21.520 --> 01:12:28.439
I was so happy and like proud
of the album and everything that we were

908
01:12:28.479 --> 01:12:30.800
doing and going through, and it's
like I'm in this zone, like in

909
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:35.199
this vibe, and the last thing
I felt like doing was just like going

910
01:12:36.319 --> 01:12:40.640
yeah, yeah, you know yeah, and I'm like, man, let's

911
01:12:41.079 --> 01:12:44.760
if we can put this off to
summer twenty twenty three, and if we

912
01:12:44.800 --> 01:12:48.319
can release the first episode by like
October, that'll be a win. And

913
01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:51.680
then it just turned into scheduling stuff. Yeah, I'm going all the time

914
01:12:53.039 --> 01:12:56.880
doing whatever, and you know,
just couldn't get it done. But really

915
01:12:56.920 --> 01:13:01.239
it was almost by choice. Yeah. Yeah, some really powerful stories.

916
01:13:02.079 --> 01:13:08.600
You know, I'm not gonna name
names. There was a here's a full

917
01:13:08.640 --> 01:13:15.079
circle moment. There was a ranger
squad leader who during the battle, directed

918
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:19.039
his squad to fire at what he
thought were bad guys on the rooftop of

919
01:13:19.079 --> 01:13:24.000
a building, which weren't bad guys
on the rooftop of a building. They

920
01:13:24.000 --> 01:13:30.039
were assaulters. And that guy almost
immediately got sent home, fired, sent

921
01:13:30.079 --> 01:13:36.520
down the road. So imagine being
that guy and living through the trauma of

922
01:13:36.520 --> 01:13:43.239
that battle and the magnitude of that
and being completely ostracized. He was an

923
01:13:43.279 --> 01:13:47.640
import, which didn't help him,
right, And I can't say whether he

924
01:13:47.720 --> 01:13:51.439
was a super likable guy, didn't
work with him, didn't know him personally,

925
01:13:54.199 --> 01:13:59.680
But imagine being that guy and overcoming
all of the things that we all

926
01:13:59.720 --> 01:14:04.479
over came as a tribe, you
know. And I thought his story would

927
01:14:04.520 --> 01:14:12.880
just be incredible to tell because he's
got shame, you know, embarrassment,

928
01:14:13.319 --> 01:14:16.359
guilt, all of these things that
are really the stuff, like that's the

929
01:14:16.439 --> 01:14:21.039
stuff that Fox guys up. It's
not I did a horrific thing, or

930
01:14:21.079 --> 01:14:26.439
I saw something bad, or it's
all those other things that are kind of

931
01:14:26.520 --> 01:14:31.039
rolled into it. So I'm telling
this story to one of the other people

932
01:14:31.119 --> 01:14:34.359
that was going to be involved,
and one of the other people that was

933
01:14:34.399 --> 01:14:39.920
involved was like, man, I
would love to talk to that guy because

934
01:14:40.840 --> 01:14:45.880
we had a fratricide incident on the
very first operation and the guy that was

935
01:14:45.920 --> 01:14:51.720
so vocal about what he did was
the one that was cranking rounds off at

936
01:14:51.760 --> 01:14:59.640
friendlies on our assault. And I
was like, shh yeah, yeah,

937
01:14:59.720 --> 01:15:02.399
yeah, So you start, That's
what I'm saying. It's like, it's

938
01:15:02.479 --> 01:15:08.600
not the intent wasn't for it to
be, you know, here, relive

939
01:15:08.680 --> 01:15:12.560
your war story and tell your war
story. It was really to be telling

940
01:15:12.640 --> 01:15:17.920
these stories. I know personally.
Another thing that kind of came up from

941
01:15:17.960 --> 01:15:24.279
the thirtieth happened a year prior.
There was an awards upgrade that happened,

942
01:15:25.159 --> 01:15:29.600
and I don't know if you guys
heard about that. Okay, so somebody

943
01:15:29.800 --> 01:15:33.079
decided and I've heard through the grapevine. I don't know this to be true

944
01:15:33.920 --> 01:15:42.359
that it had something to do with
the wards that are given during a specific

945
01:15:42.439 --> 01:15:45.560
battle. If it hits a certain
mark, then like anybody from the task

946
01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:49.399
Force could be buried in Arlington or
something that could be totally wrong. So

947
01:15:50.119 --> 01:15:54.279
if you know the real story hipping
up on social media and let me know

948
01:15:54.319 --> 01:15:57.720
what the real story is, I'm
trying to find it out. Anyway,

949
01:15:58.640 --> 01:16:01.279
We're going to upgrade all these people. And first of all, you know,

950
01:16:01.560 --> 01:16:05.760
I know, military awards are about
as jacked up as they could you

951
01:16:05.800 --> 01:16:12.760
know, never be right. But
as an example, like if you're at

952
01:16:12.800 --> 01:16:15.920
this level, this is the award
that you got, you're at this level,

953
01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:17.199
this is the award that you got. I know, a dude that

954
01:16:17.239 --> 01:16:21.319
got an Arkham with a v device
true story, there's like that's kind of

955
01:16:21.359 --> 01:16:26.199
like the private that was running around
doing stuff in the street, dealing it,

956
01:16:26.880 --> 01:16:32.039
okay, dealing with death and okay, so imagine this, you know,

957
01:16:32.079 --> 01:16:35.119
and this is kind of a sensitive
subject, I think to some degree.

958
01:16:35.159 --> 01:16:42.239
But if you're a casualty, doesn't
mean that you automatically like a valorous

959
01:16:42.279 --> 01:16:46.840
award isn't what you're awarded for being
killed in battle. You're given a purple

960
01:16:46.880 --> 01:16:53.399
heart, you're posthumously maybe promoted or
things like that. But someone gets killed

961
01:16:53.439 --> 01:16:57.319
and they get a Bronze Star with
V and here's private guy running around for

962
01:16:57.359 --> 01:17:01.399
eighteen hours laying it down and he
gets an RCM with V device. So

963
01:17:01.600 --> 01:17:08.640
anyway, the awards upgrade happens,
and imagine being, you know, I'm

964
01:17:08.680 --> 01:17:14.079
a semi public person. Imagine people
asking, hey, did you get upgraded?

965
01:17:14.760 --> 01:17:17.159
Did you get upgraded? No?
Man, no, I'm a shit

966
01:17:17.159 --> 01:17:20.239
bag. I didn't get upgraded.
Like, I don't know how they picked

967
01:17:20.279 --> 01:17:26.960
who got upgraded, But twenty nine
years after the battle, which was probably

968
01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:34.479
twenty eight years after the awards ceremony, I'm still like feeling shame or embarrassment

969
01:17:34.840 --> 01:17:39.359
by the award that I was given
and then I wasn't upgraded. But these

970
01:17:39.399 --> 01:17:43.439
other people were right, and I
don't think that anybody looked at it that

971
01:17:43.479 --> 01:17:45.119
way. I think it was just
like, hey, we're trying to right

972
01:17:45.199 --> 01:17:48.319
or wrong. We're trying to get
people silver stars that got only bronze stars.

973
01:17:48.359 --> 01:17:53.079
We're trying to whatever. I don't
know the impetus or the or the

974
01:17:53.119 --> 01:17:57.159
intent, but I felt like at
the time, and I didn't even know

975
01:17:57.199 --> 01:18:00.680
if I was getting upgraded or not, having conversations with some of my peers

976
01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:03.039
and was like, man, this
is a bad thing. It's just it's

977
01:18:03.079 --> 01:18:06.560
gonna make and ruffle a lot of
feathers for people that are getting things.

978
01:18:06.640 --> 01:18:11.760
Other people aren't getting things, And
it's more about the people that aren't getting

979
01:18:11.760 --> 01:18:15.000
things than it is the people that
are getting right. So anyway, that's

980
01:18:15.039 --> 01:18:21.039
just do you feel like that that
whole battle was somewhat like except the I

981
01:18:21.039 --> 01:18:28.520
don't know, like the zeitgeist around
it was accentuated because of the intense I

982
01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:31.279
don't want to say media scrutiny,
but the intense amount of attention that that

983
01:18:31.359 --> 01:18:36.079
particular battle got. That it's something
that became like army legend, you know,

984
01:18:36.159 --> 01:18:41.439
not just ranger legend, but army. Yeah. I don't know.

985
01:18:42.720 --> 01:18:45.239
Like I said, I think it
was. I think it was an important

986
01:18:46.960 --> 01:18:51.720
I think it was an important moment
in our military history and our first engagement

987
01:18:51.720 --> 01:18:55.279
with al Qaeda. You know,
we didn't know that at the time,

988
01:18:55.840 --> 01:18:59.359
but that was really our first kind
of engagement. Then. I think it

989
01:18:59.399 --> 01:19:03.760
was the first real example of the
media being there and having stuff. So

990
01:19:04.640 --> 01:19:09.840
as an example, we ended up, you know, at about ten o'clock

991
01:19:09.880 --> 01:19:14.000
the next day, we end up
in a stadium. We're kind of reconsolidating,

992
01:19:14.039 --> 01:19:17.520
reorganizing, and dead and wounded or
being farm you know, moved out

993
01:19:17.560 --> 01:19:23.199
and transported and things like that.
We still have to drive back through the

994
01:19:23.239 --> 01:19:26.800
city to get back to the hangar, and I don't think we got back

995
01:19:26.800 --> 01:19:30.560
to the hanger until about one o'clock. So we get back to the hangar,

996
01:19:30.840 --> 01:19:34.239
everybody's taking their gear off, kind
of doing a reunited thing with other

997
01:19:34.319 --> 01:19:38.640
guys that we haven't seen yet,
and all of a sudden, in the

998
01:19:38.680 --> 01:19:42.880
back corner of the hangar, they
had a TV, and you know,

999
01:19:42.920 --> 01:19:46.840
we'd watch movies back there, and
you got like four hundred people task for

1000
01:19:46.920 --> 01:19:50.760
us trying to watch you know,
Naked Gun or something like that back there.

1001
01:19:50.840 --> 01:19:55.159
So anyway, all of a sudden, everybody starts running back to the

1002
01:19:55.199 --> 01:19:59.039
corner and so we make our way
over there, and the first thing we

1003
01:19:59.119 --> 01:20:05.239
see is like dudes get and drug
around through the streets. So nobody knew,

1004
01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:09.960
like nobody had account We didn't have
accountability for people, so we didn't

1005
01:20:09.960 --> 01:20:13.439
even know that there were people that
weren't accounted for. In my mind,

1006
01:20:13.479 --> 01:20:15.279
it's like, hey, we're we're
back home. We got everybody. You

1007
01:20:15.359 --> 01:20:18.279
guy's got everybody. We're all back
and it was cool. We didn't know

1008
01:20:19.079 --> 01:20:24.359
until I think it was three or
four days later that Durant pops up on

1009
01:20:24.479 --> 01:20:29.159
CNN, and I don't think that
they knew whether he was alive or dead.

1010
01:20:29.359 --> 01:20:33.640
So just that in itself, you
know, I guess, kind of

1011
01:20:33.640 --> 01:20:39.359
speaks to the chaos and or how
the media was involved with something where to

1012
01:20:40.279 --> 01:20:45.479
find out what you've been. Yeah. So one of the things that I

1013
01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:48.079
remember about that time is, you
know, like I would say that a

1014
01:20:48.079 --> 01:20:53.479
lot of the military has you know, like a lot of it gener or

1015
01:20:53.600 --> 01:20:58.279
used to at least generally lean somewhat
conservative, so there would be this a

1016
01:20:58.560 --> 01:21:02.800
you know, Republican Democrat thing.
But but there was a real there was

1017
01:21:02.880 --> 01:21:06.359
a real split at that point in
time because people felt like, you know

1018
01:21:06.399 --> 01:21:11.319
where the government would not give them
acs, you know, because they didn't

1019
01:21:11.520 --> 01:21:15.640
you know, because they they didn't
want to appear to be too like harsh.

1020
01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:21.479
They didn't want the imagery of American
you know, forces over there,

1021
01:21:21.680 --> 01:21:29.199
so we don't have necessarily, you
know, the soldiers didn't necessarily have the

1022
01:21:29.199 --> 01:21:33.479
things that they really needed, you
know, relying on Pakistani armor and you

1023
01:21:33.520 --> 01:21:38.159
know, and things like that,
because the Americans didn't have what they needed.

1024
01:21:38.399 --> 01:21:45.439
Sure, I've had a few conversations
about just like the political aspect of

1025
01:21:45.479 --> 01:21:48.840
the whole operation, and there are
people that are very heated about that,

1026
01:21:49.159 --> 01:21:54.960
you know, to this day.
We had these things, no doubt and

1027
01:21:56.399 --> 01:22:03.159
flying around immediate game changer, totally
get it. We were there very covertly,

1028
01:22:04.079 --> 01:22:09.680
to the point that people got haircuts
to look like we were all just

1029
01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:13.119
some rangers coming over here to do, you know, like it was a

1030
01:22:13.279 --> 01:22:17.680
very kind of under the radar,
not intending to be. So how can

1031
01:22:17.720 --> 01:22:23.960
you go do that and then have
all the shit flying around overhead, you

1032
01:22:24.000 --> 01:22:28.920
know, fast movers, naval gunfire, whatever you want to have. And

1033
01:22:28.920 --> 01:22:31.800
and so I look at it like
we could have either gone and done it,

1034
01:22:33.079 --> 01:22:36.840
or the military could have said here's
our bottom line, and if we

1035
01:22:36.880 --> 01:22:40.560
don't get this, we're not doing
it, and maybe it would have never

1036
01:22:40.640 --> 01:22:45.800
happened. I think it was an
important mission. I think what we were

1037
01:22:45.800 --> 01:22:49.600
there to do was an important mission
as much as any g Watt mission could

1038
01:22:49.600 --> 01:22:54.039
be, you know, and all
of the all of the things that we

1039
01:22:54.119 --> 01:23:00.560
ended up doing there. But I
don't think politically, I don't think America

1040
01:23:00.680 --> 01:23:04.359
was in a place or you know, the landscape was in a place where

1041
01:23:04.399 --> 01:23:08.000
like, hey, Hey, we're
gonna send over this thing and it's going

1042
01:23:08.079 --> 01:23:12.880
to be this big offer we're invading, right, and it was, it

1043
01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:18.680
was really under the radar. So
I'm I'm not and I'm a very a

1044
01:23:18.760 --> 01:23:23.880
political person. Try not to do
anything political on social media. I don't

1045
01:23:23.880 --> 01:23:29.159
want to divide people, you know, but I can understand why we didn't

1046
01:23:29.199 --> 01:23:32.880
have some of the things that maybe
we would have normally, and why that

1047
01:23:32.920 --> 01:23:38.720
would be you know, a risk. Yeah. And also I don't I

1048
01:23:38.760 --> 01:23:41.159
don't want to speak out of turn, but there may have been some like

1049
01:23:41.239 --> 01:23:47.039
legal prohibitions about having aircraft with strafing
capabilities. But we had a one historian

1050
01:23:47.119 --> 01:23:49.159
on the show that would be a
better person to talk too, Yeah,

1051
01:23:49.199 --> 01:23:55.239
for sure than anything I know about. Yeah, I mean we're there.

1052
01:23:55.439 --> 01:24:00.279
You know, we're in this country
to hand out aid, right bag,

1053
01:24:00.439 --> 01:24:04.920
That's why we're there. The aid
starts getting stolen and they're killing people to

1054
01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:10.840
get the aid, and then they're
you know, black marketing it or they're

1055
01:24:10.960 --> 01:24:14.079
you know, doing whatever and handing
out to only their tribe, right,

1056
01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:18.279
whatever it is. And you know, so coming in with this big here

1057
01:24:18.359 --> 01:24:21.279
we are, you know, like
I get it. You know, there

1058
01:24:21.279 --> 01:24:26.319
are plenty of other things that we've
done elsewhere that isn't you know, this

1059
01:24:26.399 --> 01:24:30.439
big march into the city, right, and after something goes really really wrong,

1060
01:24:30.760 --> 01:24:35.239
of course we look like assholes in
the afternoon here, like, yeah,

1061
01:24:38.840 --> 01:24:43.399
let's talk a little bit about Ranger
recon. Okay, after that whole

1062
01:24:43.439 --> 01:24:46.920
event you came back, you had
already kind of like committed yourself or voices

1063
01:24:47.000 --> 01:24:50.319
and so for leadership that you were
interested in going to the selection for this.

1064
01:24:50.800 --> 01:24:54.359
Yeah, let me answer that and
then I'll let you finish. So

1065
01:24:54.600 --> 01:24:57.439
I had told them, hey,
I want to go to this selection.

1066
01:24:57.560 --> 01:25:00.119
Was supposed to be October in ninety
three. That didn't happen, and obviously

1067
01:25:01.319 --> 01:25:09.319
when we got back, my platoon
definitely took the brunt of everything and we're

1068
01:25:09.359 --> 01:25:14.319
pretty much wiped out, like all
the NCOs I was soon to be.

1069
01:25:14.600 --> 01:25:17.920
I would have promoted to E five
had I not said I want to go

1070
01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:21.399
to selection for this thing. So
I would have promoted that summer June or

1071
01:25:21.520 --> 01:25:26.439
July or whatever. They actually did
a promotion board over there, and I

1072
01:25:26.479 --> 01:25:30.359
would have gone to that and gotten
promoted. So anyway, you know,

1073
01:25:30.439 --> 01:25:33.079
hey, I'm pulling myself out.
I'm gonna go do this thing. When

1074
01:25:33.079 --> 01:25:36.359
that happened and we got back,
I was like, I would feel like

1075
01:25:36.439 --> 01:25:41.840
an asshole if I said, Hey, I'm leaving. I feel like I've

1076
01:25:41.840 --> 01:25:45.640
got to help rebuild the platoon.
I know what we need to do to

1077
01:25:45.680 --> 01:25:49.319
be successful. I want to make
sure that we get back up, you

1078
01:25:49.319 --> 01:25:53.800
know, plused up as much as
we can before I go and leave and

1079
01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:58.000
do something else. So you've got
me for like another eighteen months, you

1080
01:25:58.039 --> 01:26:03.720
know, something like that, and
ended up Spring of ninety five is when

1081
01:26:03.760 --> 01:26:08.239
I went to selection. But then
I'll let you. I'll let you finish

1082
01:26:08.239 --> 01:26:11.600
your question. No, you're you're
you're probably like what was my question again?

1083
01:26:11.640 --> 01:26:14.800
No, you're on You're on the
right track. So you want to

1084
01:26:14.840 --> 01:26:17.319
stay around and make sure the platoon
got back up on its feet before taking

1085
01:26:17.399 --> 01:26:20.479
off, Like I mean, just
like I don't know if you know the

1086
01:26:20.479 --> 01:26:27.920
exact numbers, but like as far
as casualties in your platoon, yeah,

1087
01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:34.880
pretty much every nco. And then
my last peer, with the exception of

1088
01:26:34.960 --> 01:26:42.399
one guy got hit by the mortar
round that hit on the sixth of October

1089
01:26:43.239 --> 01:26:47.520
that killed a unit guy and wounded
a bunch of folks. But we were

1090
01:26:48.079 --> 01:26:53.479
standing out in front of the hangar
and we were smoking cigarettes. And it's

1091
01:26:53.520 --> 01:27:01.960
funny because I had met Wayne Downing
there on the sixth and Wayne told me

1092
01:27:02.079 --> 01:27:06.880
to So General Downing Ranger legend,
four star general. I think he was

1093
01:27:06.880 --> 01:27:14.039
the Silicon General at the time.
I had met him that afternoon and he

1094
01:27:14.079 --> 01:27:15.760
was like, you know, Rangel
Thomas, you need to quit smoking.

1095
01:27:16.520 --> 01:27:19.800
And I was like whatever when they
stopped. This was a jerry boykind that

1096
01:27:19.840 --> 01:27:26.960
told you to stop smoking. No, So, so General Downing tells me

1097
01:27:27.000 --> 01:27:32.199
I need to stop smoking. And
anyway, I'm out front and it's you

1098
01:27:32.239 --> 01:27:35.079
know, evening or whatever, and
me and a couple of dudes are standing

1099
01:27:35.119 --> 01:27:40.159
out there having cigarettes and a couple
of dudes smoking cigars and stuff like that.

1100
01:27:40.319 --> 01:27:45.560
And I take like two steps and
like, hey, I'm gonna go

1101
01:27:45.600 --> 01:27:49.439
back inside and do whatever. I
take like two steps, like this thing

1102
01:27:49.560 --> 01:27:54.880
hits and the lights go out and
then you hear people screaming. It was

1103
01:27:54.960 --> 01:27:59.640
just like total chaos, and I
think we thought like, Okay, we're

1104
01:27:59.680 --> 01:28:01.520
gonna go back out into the city. I don't think we even knew what

1105
01:28:01.520 --> 01:28:05.600
we were gonna do or not do. But anyway, so my last kind

1106
01:28:05.600 --> 01:28:11.319
of peer got hit in the neck. Nick is jugglar. But he came

1107
01:28:11.399 --> 01:28:15.560
walking in and me and a buddy
that came to my platoon. It's like

1108
01:28:15.600 --> 01:28:20.880
a reinforcement that came over that day. He and I had been roommates,

1109
01:28:20.920 --> 01:28:24.560
like when I first got there and
stuff like that. He got a duy

1110
01:28:24.760 --> 01:28:27.880
and it had been sent down the
road. He had just come back and

1111
01:28:27.920 --> 01:28:30.119
he was like, I'm supposed to
be in B company. Totally lied,

1112
01:28:30.399 --> 01:28:34.000
got on the plane saying that,
you know, somebody had told him he

1113
01:28:34.079 --> 01:28:38.439
was supposed to go back to B
company. And he shows up there and

1114
01:28:38.560 --> 01:28:44.079
was like what's up. But anyway, friend comes staggering in and he's like,

1115
01:28:45.239 --> 01:28:46.720
he goes, I'm gonna pass out. They're like, no, man,

1116
01:28:46.760 --> 01:28:49.760
you're good, and so break out
the flashlight and kind of start working

1117
01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:54.479
on him and he goes unconscious and
it was kind of like, well he's

1118
01:28:54.520 --> 01:28:59.079
dead, I'm gonna start and the
brain kind of immediately started to move on.

1119
01:28:59.840 --> 01:29:01.800
And anyway, that was a long
drawn out way to answer the question.

1120
01:29:01.840 --> 01:29:06.159
But that was kind of like my
last peer. And you know,

1121
01:29:06.560 --> 01:29:11.560
really after that, it was just
slim pickings. There were dudes that were

1122
01:29:12.079 --> 01:29:16.439
getting medically you know, discharged.
There were people that would never fully recover,

1123
01:29:16.680 --> 01:29:20.359
you know, still in the process
at some degree. You know,

1124
01:29:20.479 --> 01:29:24.640
maybe my ankle's going to be good, maybe my foot's going to be whatever.

1125
01:29:25.600 --> 01:29:30.199
So yeah, I don't know percentage. It seemed like all the privates

1126
01:29:30.199 --> 01:29:34.920
were good to go, but gunners
everybody, you know. I think there

1127
01:29:34.960 --> 01:29:39.560
were so one hundred and twenty people
on the ground that day. I think

1128
01:29:39.840 --> 01:29:44.399
it was something about that and seventy
seven purple hearts, So okay, so

1129
01:29:44.479 --> 01:29:46.600
that's a good number. Yeah,
it was pretty significant. And then another

1130
01:29:47.439 --> 01:29:51.359
however many it came on the six
when more people got hit with the morner.

1131
01:29:54.479 --> 01:29:58.279
So you stuck around for another year
and a half or so and then

1132
01:29:58.319 --> 01:30:02.159
went off to selection. Tell us
about r RD selection at that time,

1133
01:30:02.279 --> 01:30:08.479
nineteen ninety five, yeah, ninety
five. So it was extremely basic,

1134
01:30:08.600 --> 01:30:12.760
and I think they had been through
different iterations, and I can't remember.

1135
01:30:13.640 --> 01:30:16.439
I used to probably know like more
of what it was, and you know,

1136
01:30:16.479 --> 01:30:21.319
they used to go do this,
and I don't remember now, but

1137
01:30:21.439 --> 01:30:25.720
I know that I went through a
very basic kind of selection for it.

1138
01:30:25.640 --> 01:30:31.239
It was a PT test, a
road march, there may have been,

1139
01:30:31.880 --> 01:30:35.319
you know, one other physical type
event, and then it was kind of

1140
01:30:35.319 --> 01:30:42.399
like a board of you know,
Commander's board, and me and another buddy

1141
01:30:42.399 --> 01:30:48.359
from my platoon both made it and
got selected, So it was it was

1142
01:30:48.399 --> 01:30:51.039
pretty basic. I don't think there
were a lot of people trying out though.

1143
01:30:53.039 --> 01:30:56.039
Do they still put you up in
the mountains in Delanaga at that time?

1144
01:30:56.920 --> 01:31:00.239
So that was something that once I
got there, and this was kind

1145
01:31:00.279 --> 01:31:11.039
of what the article was about.
So at some point in ninety six,

1146
01:31:12.359 --> 01:31:18.840
Colonel Azinski, the sixth colonel of
the Ranger Regiment, decided that there were

1147
01:31:18.880 --> 01:31:25.439
some other people that were doing missions
for the Rangers and he didn't want that

1148
01:31:25.560 --> 01:31:31.479
to happen and he wanted Rangers to
do Ranger stuff and probably being a little

1149
01:31:32.960 --> 01:31:40.800
you know, cryptic here, but
anyway, he basically said, I want

1150
01:31:41.159 --> 01:31:47.760
the Recon Attachment to be on par
with other organizations and whatever it takes to

1151
01:31:47.760 --> 01:31:53.399
get there. I want some smart
guys to help figure out what needs to

1152
01:31:53.439 --> 01:32:00.680
be done to get this group to
the twentieth century. And we had things

1153
01:32:00.720 --> 01:32:05.600
like Bosnia or was you know,
happening and so semi permissive environment, not

1154
01:32:05.600 --> 01:32:12.800
not combat operations per se. So
he came down and talked to the Regimental

1155
01:32:12.920 --> 01:32:17.520
S two and the Regimental S two
came and talked to the detachment and he

1156
01:32:17.600 --> 01:32:23.640
said, I'm looking for a couple
of smart guys that are senior that can

1157
01:32:23.640 --> 01:32:29.359
figure out how to put together a
training course, a selection process and what

1158
01:32:29.399 --> 01:32:31.520
it takes, you know, what
we're looking for trying to figure out what

1159
01:32:31.520 --> 01:32:35.199
we're looking for. So I raised
my hand. I had been there for

1160
01:32:35.479 --> 01:32:39.079
maybe a year and that was ninety
seven, so I had been there for

1161
01:32:39.119 --> 01:32:44.199
about two years and was like an
assistant team leader, and you know,

1162
01:32:44.279 --> 01:32:45.399
said I want to I want to
be a part of that. I want

1163
01:32:45.439 --> 01:32:49.520
to figure out what it takes to
get us, you know, into the

1164
01:32:49.560 --> 01:32:58.840
next generation. So I put together
the selection process. And my buddy Scott

1165
01:32:58.880 --> 01:33:03.640
Stirling, who is died a few
years ago of cancer. He and another

1166
01:33:03.680 --> 01:33:11.560
guy took on what has become the
reconnaissance training course. So they put that

1167
01:33:11.680 --> 01:33:15.319
together and I put selection together.
And that's kind of how I came to

1168
01:33:15.359 --> 01:33:20.359
be for the square community out there. Tell people what RRD is, what

1169
01:33:20.760 --> 01:33:24.199
like, what did you guys do? What was the purpose of the seunit?

1170
01:33:25.239 --> 01:33:29.279
So I don't know, I mean
from the stuff that I did there

1171
01:33:29.520 --> 01:33:33.720
nothing of it is you know super
opsec and you know secretive or anything else.

1172
01:33:33.760 --> 01:33:39.279
But they're basically, you know,
coming in and looking at things and

1173
01:33:39.319 --> 01:33:44.439
figuring out atmospherics and doing all that
kind of stuff, so that the group

1174
01:33:44.479 --> 01:33:47.279
that's coming in to do whatever is, you know, got a little bit

1175
01:33:47.319 --> 01:33:51.920
of situational awareness about what they're getting
into. That was a total bullshit answer,

1176
01:33:51.960 --> 01:33:57.119
but thank you, Brad. Yeah, so let's talk a moment.

1177
01:33:57.159 --> 01:34:01.399
Then There's also like there was at
the time a bit of a stigma around

1178
01:34:01.640 --> 01:34:05.039
RRD that I'd like to talk about
because I think it was still lingering a

1179
01:34:05.079 --> 01:34:10.319
bit even when I got to Range
a regiment that you and I had talked

1180
01:34:10.319 --> 01:34:14.600
about that there is this this idea
that you know, the RD got compromised

1181
01:34:14.640 --> 01:34:17.439
on every training operation, and I
think that kind of stuck with them for

1182
01:34:17.479 --> 01:34:20.760
a little bit. It was kind
of an unfortunate but could you talk a

1183
01:34:20.760 --> 01:34:25.760
little bit about like why that came
about? So when I got there,

1184
01:34:25.920 --> 01:34:30.359
as an example, the team would
get utilized, like my team supported Third

1185
01:34:30.439 --> 01:34:35.319
Ranger Battalion. So if there was
a company that was doing a live fire

1186
01:34:35.439 --> 01:34:44.319
operation out on Kilo twenty two and
Fort Benning, they would have my team

1187
01:34:44.520 --> 01:34:47.880
go in and like heysh, you
go figure out where our support by fire

1188
01:34:48.000 --> 01:34:53.680
position would be you go figure out
where, uh you know, report in,

1189
01:34:53.800 --> 01:34:57.880
whether, report in whatever, all
that kind of jazz. So we

1190
01:34:57.880 --> 01:35:10.000
were really kind of being underutilized and
I lost track of where I was going

1191
01:35:10.039 --> 01:35:14.039
with that. Where that the you
know, the the battalion and a lot

1192
01:35:14.039 --> 01:35:16.880
of the Joe's you know the guys. Okay, r RD was just always

1193
01:35:16.880 --> 01:35:20.800
fucked up and always compromised. So
the point would be, like you're sneaking

1194
01:35:20.840 --> 01:35:25.800
around out there and you're trying not
to get caught by either a fake enemy

1195
01:35:26.439 --> 01:35:30.960
or a bunch of privates that have
been assigned with being op for a for

1196
01:35:31.000 --> 01:35:35.760
a target, and they're being maybe
a little overly aggressive because they want to

1197
01:35:35.800 --> 01:35:41.199
try and bust find you and they
want to try and bust someone. So

1198
01:35:41.359 --> 01:35:45.239
anyway, what we were told there
was here's where you want to push the

1199
01:35:45.319 --> 01:35:49.279
envelope, Like you want to try
and see what you can get away with

1200
01:35:49.359 --> 01:35:54.479
and what you can't get away with
because it's training and it doesn't really count.

1201
01:35:54.600 --> 01:35:59.239
See what's possible. So you know, you'd have an enemy situation as

1202
01:35:59.239 --> 01:36:05.439
an example, Uh, the enemy
has robing patrols out to seven hundred meters

1203
01:36:05.479 --> 01:36:12.439
out from the target area. But
really these privates were going out like you

1204
01:36:12.479 --> 01:36:16.000
know, two kilometers, you know, and they're beating the brush looking for

1205
01:36:16.039 --> 01:36:20.680
you. And you know, so
here you are pushing the envelope and now

1206
01:36:20.720 --> 01:36:25.760
you're getting rolled up by you know, a couple of jackasses that are doing

1207
01:36:25.800 --> 01:36:29.399
something that they weren't supposed to do
anyway, it doesn't fit with the enemy

1208
01:36:29.439 --> 01:36:34.319
situation and scenario and all of that
stuff. So to your point, yeah,

1209
01:36:34.359 --> 01:36:36.880
that was that was kind of like
the bad Blood. It was.

1210
01:36:38.199 --> 01:36:42.039
Those guys are always getting compromised.
Those guys are always getting rolled up on

1211
01:36:42.119 --> 01:36:45.880
target. Those guys are always this. They're a bunch of cowboys. They're

1212
01:36:45.039 --> 01:36:48.960
you know, oh look now they've
got long hair, and you know all

1213
01:36:48.960 --> 01:36:56.079
they do they do, all they
do is jump yeah, right right,

1214
01:36:56.279 --> 01:37:00.640
And you know that's that's another misnomer. It's like strap a bunch of shit

1215
01:37:00.800 --> 01:37:05.800
onto yourself and jump out of a
plane at night into a tiny little Fort

1216
01:37:05.840 --> 01:37:12.079
Benning drop zone from twenty four thousand
feet and you want to talk about a

1217
01:37:12.119 --> 01:37:15.600
gut check, you know, yeah, stepping off that ramp. Well,

1218
01:37:15.680 --> 01:37:21.960
that's I mean, that's something the
story. The story helpedel that. When

1219
01:37:21.960 --> 01:37:27.560
I was a tab spec for in
range of battalion and RRD came and gave

1220
01:37:27.640 --> 01:37:30.439
us like the absolute worst recruitment brief
I had ever seen in my life.

1221
01:37:30.800 --> 01:37:34.479
They're like, yeah, hey,
guys, you come to RRD and you

1222
01:37:34.479 --> 01:37:40.000
can jump out of airplanes with an
extra eight hundred pounds of gear in this

1223
01:37:40.399 --> 01:37:43.720
bundle, and yeah, we jump
with an extra eight hundred pounds. You

1224
01:37:43.760 --> 01:37:46.000
can free fall and do and like
we're all looking at this like yeah,

1225
01:37:46.079 --> 01:37:51.039
no, no, no, absolutely
not. No one was even remotely interested

1226
01:37:51.079 --> 01:37:56.680
in this job, which is again
it's unfortunate because there's a lot of stuff

1227
01:37:56.680 --> 01:38:00.199
that that element does that's really interesting
and good. Yeah, especially now like

1228
01:38:00.279 --> 01:38:04.479
they but also a well, this
this was two thousand and four or five,

1229
01:38:04.560 --> 01:38:09.079
I mean this was they were doing
some interesting also at the time.

1230
01:38:09.199 --> 01:38:13.239
Like I don't know how it is
now, but at the time the you

1231
01:38:13.319 --> 01:38:17.880
probably had just internal sabotage to not
internal to RD. But but the idea

1232
01:38:17.920 --> 01:38:24.119
in regiment is you either grow up
and die in regiment, you go to

1233
01:38:24.239 --> 01:38:27.720
delta or you're a ship bag.
If you go to r D, you're

1234
01:38:27.760 --> 01:38:30.600
a ship bag. If you go
to SF, you're a ship bag.

1235
01:38:30.720 --> 01:38:32.279
Actually, if you're on the line
and you go to the sniper section.

1236
01:38:32.439 --> 01:38:38.039
You're a ship bag, like if
if you're anything but an assaulter, you're

1237
01:38:38.079 --> 01:38:41.680
a ship bag, you know,
and the only acceptable place to go from

1238
01:38:41.800 --> 01:38:47.319
Ranger Battalion is either you know,
uh fort living room or Delta where you're

1239
01:38:47.319 --> 01:38:53.079
an assaulter. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, very much a cultural you know,

1240
01:38:53.520 --> 01:38:58.840
a cultural thing. I was kind
of expecting that to some degree when

1241
01:38:58.840 --> 01:39:02.319
I left, and I think,
like, I remember, they gave me

1242
01:39:02.359 --> 01:39:09.159
my going away plaque maybe a month
early, and it was because it coincided

1243
01:39:09.199 --> 01:39:12.520
with like the Ranger ball and they're
like, hey man, we're gonna give

1244
01:39:12.520 --> 01:39:14.680
this thing to you here, so
you got to be there, blah blah

1245
01:39:14.720 --> 01:39:18.319
blah blah blah. And I remember
thinking that, and you know, like,

1246
01:39:18.479 --> 01:39:23.479
how am I being perceived? You
know, is it I'm quitting right?

1247
01:39:25.319 --> 01:39:30.359
And I think the camaraderie from having
all been together in Mogadishu, it

1248
01:39:30.439 --> 01:39:35.119
definitely wasn't. I didn't. I
didn't feel that way. They didn't make

1249
01:39:35.159 --> 01:39:42.720
me feel that way. They gave
me this huge Somalia shaped plaque that has

1250
01:39:42.760 --> 01:39:45.520
all kinds of like cool pictures on
it and you know, artifacts and stuff

1251
01:39:45.520 --> 01:39:48.800
like that. So I didn't feel
that way. But I know what you

1252
01:39:48.880 --> 01:39:55.600
say is true. Yeah, that's
great. Any any other final thoughts about

1253
01:39:55.760 --> 01:40:00.640
R r D before we move on. Like I said, in my mind,

1254
01:40:00.680 --> 01:40:04.039
looking back at you know, the
scope of the whole career, it

1255
01:40:04.159 --> 01:40:08.840
was definitely, you know, one
of the best kept secrets in terms of

1256
01:40:09.640 --> 01:40:15.479
the amount of satisfaction I got job
satisfaction. You know. I know that

1257
01:40:15.520 --> 01:40:18.840
they're way more versed than way more
things now and probably way better trained and

1258
01:40:18.960 --> 01:40:24.119
everything else. But at that time
it was the only real place that you

1259
01:40:24.159 --> 01:40:28.760
could be where it wasn't I'm a
sergeant, you're a private. I'm gonna

1260
01:40:28.800 --> 01:40:30.600
yell at you until I get you
to do what you you know, should

1261
01:40:30.640 --> 01:40:33.600
be doing, and things like that, and that just never really fit me.

1262
01:40:34.039 --> 01:40:40.159
Yeah, I did it. I
was a Hellian for you know,

1263
01:40:40.319 --> 01:40:46.560
probably two years or probably sorry,
uh sorry to people that maybe I crossed.

1264
01:40:46.560 --> 01:40:51.520
It's important. I won't mention his
name. But I had this very

1265
01:40:51.560 --> 01:40:57.239
humbling moment happen, and it was
kind of like the shift from when I

1266
01:40:57.279 --> 01:41:03.600
went from Hellian to be like maybe
an actual leader. And I had this

1267
01:41:03.720 --> 01:41:09.600
kid who you know, the deal
man. When you see kids, you

1268
01:41:09.640 --> 01:41:13.520
can kind of tell like not gonna
fit, gonna fit, you know,

1269
01:41:14.079 --> 01:41:19.640
needs some work needs whatever. And
I had this kid and I was ruthless

1270
01:41:19.680 --> 01:41:24.600
with him for about a week and
he was hanging in there, and I

1271
01:41:24.640 --> 01:41:28.119
was like, I'm going to change
my tactic, and so I called him

1272
01:41:28.119 --> 01:41:30.960
into my room and I'm like,
all right, man, here's the deal.

1273
01:41:31.159 --> 01:41:35.079
We can keep playing this game and
I keep smoking in all of that,

1274
01:41:35.520 --> 01:41:40.720
or you know, you can just
quit and you know there's no shame

1275
01:41:40.720 --> 01:41:44.399
in that whatever. And he goes, okay, Serge, and I quit

1276
01:41:44.880 --> 01:41:47.720
and I'm like what, Like that's
all it took, you know, being

1277
01:41:47.800 --> 01:41:54.560
nice to you and you're gonna quit? And I said why did you want

1278
01:41:54.560 --> 01:41:58.079
to be here anyway? And he
goes, well, my dad was a

1279
01:41:58.199 --> 01:42:02.479
ranger in Vietnam. Yeah, And
I was like fuck man, Like that

1280
01:42:02.560 --> 01:42:06.640
was that was a deep moment for
me and realizing that, like, I'm

1281
01:42:06.640 --> 01:42:13.880
torturing this kid because I can,
uh, he probably needs it to some

1282
01:42:14.319 --> 01:42:17.319
level and get pushed a little bit
to see whether he's going to hang in

1283
01:42:17.399 --> 01:42:20.880
there. But that was a moment
where things kind of changed for me,

1284
01:42:21.359 --> 01:42:26.039
like, all right, I need
to get these kids squared away. It's

1285
01:42:26.079 --> 01:42:30.039
not my job to be a dick. They've already they've already had that I'm

1286
01:42:30.079 --> 01:42:32.840
gonna I'm gonna lead them, you
know, and I'm gonna be different,

1287
01:42:33.279 --> 01:42:39.119
and that's that was kind of a
start point for that for me. Yeah,

1288
01:42:40.159 --> 01:42:44.600
m hm. And how did it
go from making that jump from r

1289
01:42:44.680 --> 01:42:48.039
r D to Jaysack? So,
I, I mean I joined the army

1290
01:42:48.079 --> 01:42:51.239
with the intent of, Hey,
I always want to end up telling your

1291
01:42:51.279 --> 01:42:58.880
recruiter and man, get me there. They need me. They don't know

1292
01:42:58.920 --> 01:43:04.439
they maybe, Yeah, I mean
that was the intent. I think if

1293
01:43:04.479 --> 01:43:09.920
there was any if there was anything
in a recruiter's job, isn't to like

1294
01:43:10.039 --> 01:43:14.600
lay out your career progression and everything
else. But I didn't understand, like

1295
01:43:14.640 --> 01:43:18.079
my goal very quickly went from I
want to be in this unit that I

1296
01:43:18.199 --> 01:43:21.279
view as the tip of the spear
and most other people view that way.

1297
01:43:24.119 --> 01:43:28.439
It went to I need to survive. I need to survive here. If

1298
01:43:28.439 --> 01:43:30.600
I can't make it here, I
can't make it, you know. And

1299
01:43:30.640 --> 01:43:32.960
so it became a survival thing.
And then it's like, well, I'm

1300
01:43:33.000 --> 01:43:41.520
actually thriving in this highly aggressive,
highly competitive, physically and mentally challenging environment,

1301
01:43:41.640 --> 01:43:45.279
like I'm living and I'm going out
boozing, you know, and it's

1302
01:43:45.319 --> 01:43:49.800
like anybody can do this when you're
not hungover. You can do it when

1303
01:43:49.800 --> 01:43:55.880
you're hungover. Whole different level.
Anyway, Then it kind of was like,

1304
01:43:55.920 --> 01:43:58.359
Okay, your goal is to get
to Ranger School. I make it

1305
01:43:58.399 --> 01:44:02.039
through that finally. Then you know, once they realize they got you and

1306
01:44:02.079 --> 01:44:05.760
you're gonna stick around, get to
combat, that was a whole separate thing.

1307
01:44:06.399 --> 01:44:10.159
Then it was hey, we're sending
you a jump master, We're sending

1308
01:44:10.199 --> 01:44:13.199
you to see your school, We're
sending you to get your schooled out,

1309
01:44:13.279 --> 01:44:17.960
get you promoted, and all of
that stuff. So I recognized at that

1310
01:44:17.960 --> 01:44:20.479
point, like I need to make
a step somewhere, and that was where

1311
01:44:21.119 --> 01:44:26.560
the recont attachment kind of came in. But you know, I didn't realize

1312
01:44:26.600 --> 01:44:30.760
it was going to take me eight
years to get to the place that I

1313
01:44:30.840 --> 01:44:35.439
ultimately wanted to go. And so
similarly, kids will hit me up on

1314
01:44:35.479 --> 01:44:40.319
social media, Hey I want to
go here, and it's like, man,

1315
01:44:41.479 --> 01:44:45.119
just get in prove yourself, like
that will come right, that's years

1316
01:44:45.199 --> 01:44:49.960
down the road. Yeah, like
years down the road. And I think

1317
01:44:50.720 --> 01:44:56.000
with probably the social media buzz and
people seeing pictures of stuff, it's like

1318
01:44:56.159 --> 01:45:00.159
that's they think that they're you know
gonna be there, but ultimately it takes

1319
01:45:00.199 --> 01:45:04.640
a lot of sacrifice and a lot
of time and a lot of I mean,

1320
01:45:04.680 --> 01:45:08.600
it's your life. Yeah, for
eight years, that was my life,

1321
01:45:09.159 --> 01:45:14.239
you know, just to get in
the door. And so to answer

1322
01:45:14.279 --> 01:45:15.880
your question, I always wanted to
end up there, you know, that

1323
01:45:16.000 --> 01:45:23.039
was kind of my plan. Even
the the recon thing was more about and

1324
01:45:23.119 --> 01:45:28.039
something maybe I learned about myself is
I'm not good at just sitting in one

1325
01:45:28.159 --> 01:45:31.920
thing, you know, like I
need to constantly challenge. I like to

1326
01:45:32.000 --> 01:45:35.920
challenge myself. I think that's when
you grow. I think that, you

1327
01:45:35.960 --> 01:45:40.520
know, that's when you learn the
most about yourself. And so just being

1328
01:45:40.560 --> 01:45:45.079
happy with being in the line company, it just wasn't doing it for me.

1329
01:45:45.680 --> 01:45:48.039
That's not to say that it's not
fine for somebody else, just for

1330
01:45:48.119 --> 01:45:53.239
me. And the same thing happened
to me later when I got to the

1331
01:45:53.239 --> 01:45:56.880
place I wanted to be, it
was Okay, I've been here for five

1332
01:45:57.000 --> 01:46:00.319
years, how many more times can
I go do this? It's a very

1333
01:46:00.359 --> 01:46:06.880
cyclical lifestyle, and it got very
boring and kind of stagnant, and you

1334
01:46:06.920 --> 01:46:10.039
know, that became a thing where
it's like, okay, well, what

1335
01:46:10.079 --> 01:46:15.399
do I do. Now, I've
got fourteen fifteen years in and it's five

1336
01:46:15.479 --> 01:46:18.119
years to cross the finish line.
But this is kind of getting old and

1337
01:46:18.239 --> 01:46:21.319
yeah, all that stuff. What
formth did that take for you? Is

1338
01:46:21.399 --> 01:46:25.960
like, you know, I understand, whether it's like seizing airfields or clearing

1339
01:46:26.039 --> 01:46:29.279
rooms or whatever, the mission is. At a certain point, you gain

1340
01:46:29.399 --> 01:46:31.600
like a certain level of proficiency,
and from what you tell me, it's

1341
01:46:31.640 --> 01:46:33.640
like, eh, I'm kind of
ready to like move on to the next

1342
01:46:33.640 --> 01:46:39.119
thing. Yeah. I think once
you get to a point where you realize,

1343
01:46:39.239 --> 01:46:44.119
like whatever they throw at me,
I can solve the problem. I

1344
01:46:44.159 --> 01:46:47.720
can handle it, I can physically
accomplish it or whatever. I don't know

1345
01:46:47.760 --> 01:46:51.640
what it is. But I always
feel like, you know, it's four

1346
01:46:51.720 --> 01:46:55.800
years, five years, and I'm
kind of ready for that next challenge,

1347
01:46:55.880 --> 01:47:00.640
right. That's one of the things
that I've been like with music, it's

1348
01:47:00.720 --> 01:47:04.079
always a challenge. It's coming up
with the next thing. The creative process

1349
01:47:04.159 --> 01:47:09.520
of writing something. Where does that
come from? You know? And I

1350
01:47:09.560 --> 01:47:15.319
put myself in like different mind frames
for that versus something else. But yeah,

1351
01:47:15.399 --> 01:47:18.239
I don't know, I just that's
just me. You know, I'm

1352
01:47:18.680 --> 01:47:24.159
always looking for something else. When
I got to the unit. I remember

1353
01:47:24.239 --> 01:47:28.159
seeing these guys or were like,
he's been here twelve years. You know,

1354
01:47:28.279 --> 01:47:31.439
he's been here sixteen years, and
you're like, wow, that's crazy,

1355
01:47:31.760 --> 01:47:38.960
like legend and you know that was
right for them, but for me

1356
01:47:40.119 --> 01:47:42.439
not so much. Yeah, you
know, it was all right, what's

1357
01:47:42.479 --> 01:47:44.960
the next step, what's the next
chapter? What am I going to do?

1358
01:47:45.520 --> 01:47:47.720
How am I going to continue to
challenge myself or find something or learn

1359
01:47:47.800 --> 01:47:53.520
something new or do something different.
So did you find something that was fulfilling

1360
01:47:53.560 --> 01:47:58.720
in those last five years for you? Yeah? I ended up working like

1361
01:47:58.880 --> 01:48:01.119
maybe the last four year years three
and a half four years. I ended

1362
01:48:01.159 --> 01:48:05.600
up working like in the combat development
R and D type of thing, which

1363
01:48:05.720 --> 01:48:10.760
you know, was a great transition
out of the military. But that kind

1364
01:48:10.800 --> 01:48:14.760
of gave me, i don't know, the ability to learn about how body

1365
01:48:14.840 --> 01:48:18.279
armor is tested and how what a
helmet, how it needs to perform to

1366
01:48:18.359 --> 01:48:24.600
do X, Y and Z camouflage, uniforms, apparel, gear, all

1367
01:48:24.680 --> 01:48:30.239
that kind of stuff. So that
was incredibly rewarding, you know, and

1368
01:48:30.279 --> 01:48:34.520
fulfilling. So I had a ton
of fun with that. Yeah, did

1369
01:48:34.560 --> 01:48:40.119
you you know, did you have
an opportunity then because here you are on

1370
01:48:40.159 --> 01:48:45.039
the cutting edge and on the cutting
edge of like R and D and I

1371
01:48:45.039 --> 01:48:51.520
imagine part of the procure procurement chain. Did you have an opportunity to see

1372
01:48:51.560 --> 01:48:58.359
things that were in development or theoretical
that may not even be in production yet,

1373
01:48:58.359 --> 01:49:00.560
but stuff is like wow, if
this ever like comes online, it's

1374
01:49:00.800 --> 01:49:04.319
it's it's a game changer. Yeah, And that that was kind of like

1375
01:49:04.439 --> 01:49:11.479
my role was to be able to
see things and figure out how to apply

1376
01:49:11.680 --> 01:49:15.319
that to something you know, operational, to solve a problem or a deficiency

1377
01:49:15.439 --> 01:49:20.520
or a shortfall. You know,
so if a if a military unit says

1378
01:49:21.439 --> 01:49:27.000
I lack the ability to be able
to do X, the first thing that

1379
01:49:27.000 --> 01:49:30.680
the military unit looks at is cannot
be solved with training. If not,

1380
01:49:31.119 --> 01:49:35.039
you know, is it something that
we need an item? If it needs

1381
01:49:35.079 --> 01:49:40.239
to be an item. We're not
defining what the item is and saying we

1382
01:49:40.319 --> 01:49:45.199
need the X, Y, and
Z brand thing that does you know whatever,

1383
01:49:45.680 --> 01:49:49.880
You're basically saying, we need something
that's going to enable us to get

1384
01:49:50.359 --> 01:49:56.479
from here to here in a safe
manner. Whatever. You're kind of writing

1385
01:49:56.479 --> 01:50:00.680
a requirement for what the thing should
be, and then you're throwing that to

1386
01:50:00.800 --> 01:50:03.800
industry to see who can fill you
know, that void. Yeah, it's

1387
01:50:03.880 --> 01:50:09.560
kind of how that how that works? Now do you do you still like

1388
01:50:10.239 --> 01:50:14.359
watch the industry in terms of like
what people are creating, what kind of

1389
01:50:14.399 --> 01:50:18.279
new things are out there to some
degree, and you know, have developed

1390
01:50:18.279 --> 01:50:23.800
a bunch of stuff myself, Yeah, and with folks, and you know

1391
01:50:23.960 --> 01:50:30.560
that's been lucrative and and everything else. So I'm not in it so much

1392
01:50:30.680 --> 01:50:34.720
as like who's got a new boot? Right? You know, I don't

1393
01:50:34.760 --> 01:50:42.119
look down at that level. It's
more like looking at capability gaps or you

1394
01:50:42.119 --> 01:50:46.199
know, missing pieces that's something that
could this would help you know, this

1395
01:50:46.239 --> 01:50:51.520
is a good idea because these guys
are missing this one thing that would make

1396
01:50:51.560 --> 01:50:56.319
their job easier, better, whatever
it might be, Right, what do

1397
01:50:56.359 --> 01:51:01.479
you and we've seen technology, especially
war fighting technology like changed so rapidly over

1398
01:51:01.520 --> 01:51:06.800
the last years. What to you
as maybe as a futurist, you know,

1399
01:51:06.960 --> 01:51:12.039
not with you know, current technology, but as a futurist, what

1400
01:51:12.079 --> 01:51:17.520
do you think are like some really
exciting emerging technologies right now for the warfighter.

1401
01:51:19.000 --> 01:51:21.840
There's a lot of stuff that I've
seen that I won't talk about.

1402
01:51:23.560 --> 01:51:29.359
Uh, that's probably the most exciting
stay And yeah, not my place to

1403
01:51:29.399 --> 01:51:34.720
say. You know, I will
say that when if you go to a

1404
01:51:34.800 --> 01:51:40.680
show like like a Soft Week,
which used to be Soffik down in Tampa,

1405
01:51:41.359 --> 01:51:45.319
and it's kind of like SOCOM's Industry
Day more or less. If you

1406
01:51:45.399 --> 01:51:48.479
go to that, it used to
be did you see that new Arcteric's jacket?

1407
01:51:48.600 --> 01:51:51.640
Right? Did you see that new
you know, Merroal boot whatever.

1408
01:51:53.319 --> 01:51:58.439
It used to be all about the
gear and now it's all tech. Everything

1409
01:51:58.479 --> 01:52:04.840
is about tech. I correlate that
to the guys and gals being super happy

1410
01:52:04.920 --> 01:52:09.840
with the stuff that they have.
If the thing that's touching you every day

1411
01:52:10.800 --> 01:52:13.920
sucks, like you want to change
it. You know, if the thing

1412
01:52:13.960 --> 01:52:17.920
that's touching you every day is pretty
good, you know, let's worry about

1413
01:52:17.920 --> 01:52:20.800
other things. I'm so happy with
my wo and my bear suit, well

1414
01:52:21.399 --> 01:52:25.800
with my sleep. You know,
this this year it was like a lot

1415
01:52:25.800 --> 01:52:28.960
of drones. It was a lot
of technology. There's a little bit of

1416
01:52:29.039 --> 01:52:32.600
like Arctic warfare stuff that you probably
you definitely well, you definitely wouldn't have

1417
01:52:32.600 --> 01:52:36.720
seen that stuff five ten years ago. Yeah. Yeah. And you know,

1418
01:52:36.800 --> 01:52:42.000
the world's changing in an ever evolving
place, so you know, there's

1419
01:52:42.119 --> 01:52:47.920
all kinds of things I feel like
in the gear apparel world, nothing is

1420
01:52:48.000 --> 01:52:53.920
really going to significantly change until the
battlefield changes. Like, that's about as

1421
01:52:54.000 --> 01:52:59.880
mature as it can be for the
current you know, landscape, and you

1422
01:52:59.920 --> 01:53:02.279
know they've they've got everything dialed in, you know, Yeah, we've been

1423
01:53:02.359 --> 01:53:08.640
operating in one basic area, yeah, for twenty two years. And the

1424
01:53:08.680 --> 01:53:14.479
stuff that people have is good.
The levels of ballistic protection and how tweaked

1425
01:53:14.520 --> 01:53:16.680
that is, you know, it's
about as mature as you can get it.

1426
01:53:16.720 --> 01:53:20.840
Stuff isn't getting any lighter really,
maybe a little bit here and there,

1427
01:53:20.880 --> 01:53:28.479
but there's no real leap in technology
because you know, there really doesn't

1428
01:53:28.479 --> 01:53:30.840
need to be. It's about as
refined as it could be. Right.

1429
01:53:30.239 --> 01:53:33.000
So if you were to say,
all right, we're going to now be

1430
01:53:33.119 --> 01:53:39.119
fighting in the jungles of the Philippines
and we need gear and uniforms and things

1431
01:53:39.159 --> 01:53:41.880
like that that are going to sustain
us there, I think, wow,

1432
01:53:42.000 --> 01:53:46.239
Okay, there's a whole lot of
opportunity with that. But yeah, tech

1433
01:53:46.359 --> 01:53:49.600
is the big that's the big thing. And you heard it here first guys.

1434
01:53:49.640 --> 01:53:53.760
Brad Thomas, expert in the field, says we're going to be fighting

1435
01:53:54.079 --> 01:53:59.760
in the jungerles in the Philippine Next
Insider Knowledge d make sure you clip.

1436
01:53:59.800 --> 01:54:05.479
That's just kidding, but yeah,
it's uh, it is interesting because like

1437
01:54:05.840 --> 01:54:11.079
even looking at like cold weather gear, right, like you know, like

1438
01:54:11.279 --> 01:54:15.840
the civilian market has always moved so
much faster than the military, but the

1439
01:54:15.880 --> 01:54:23.319
military, and I think that like
jaysk Unison Jaysock had led that charge where

1440
01:54:24.359 --> 01:54:28.760
they were you know, adapting,
like you know, whether it was the

1441
01:54:29.039 --> 01:54:32.199
was it like reyk lely Blutes or
like just they were out there experimenting and

1442
01:54:32.239 --> 01:54:41.560
had the budget and the procurement process
to experiment where you know, I think

1443
01:54:41.840 --> 01:54:45.479
like during the nineties we were wearing
cold weather gear, the same cold weather

1444
01:54:45.640 --> 01:54:48.439
gear they were wearing in the Korean
War. Yeah, probably, Yeah,

1445
01:54:48.680 --> 01:54:54.159
Or you know, I get to
the Ranger Battalion in ninety one and I'm

1446
01:54:54.159 --> 01:55:00.960
wearing a Vietnam era web gear.
Yeah. I was a sawgunner in Mogadishu.

1447
01:55:00.800 --> 01:55:05.800
I had a LBE that had five
five six mag pouches on it that

1448
01:55:06.239 --> 01:55:13.079
because it was the Ranger sop oursop, I had to carry six magazines in

1449
01:55:13.159 --> 01:55:16.640
my magazine pouches for a for a
weapon that I wasn't even carrying. And

1450
01:55:16.680 --> 01:55:21.720
then I'm slinging around like bandoliers of
AMMO. There was nothing to carry that

1451
01:55:21.800 --> 01:55:27.720
stuff. Then. Now if you
see what these guys have now and the

1452
01:55:27.760 --> 01:55:30.319
way they're carrying it and how smart
it is, and they're like, you

1453
01:55:30.359 --> 01:55:34.239
know, this could be a lot
Like I have no idea. I don't

1454
01:55:34.239 --> 01:55:36.640
want to sound like I am,
but I don't want to be like,

1455
01:55:39.520 --> 01:55:43.920
here's a compass and that's what you
end up sounding like. But their whole

1456
01:55:43.960 --> 01:55:47.079
world is like different. They're trying
to improve what they've got and make it

1457
01:55:47.119 --> 01:55:51.760
better and everything else. They've got
really good stuff until we have like Star

1458
01:55:51.800 --> 01:55:57.199
Wars blasters that don't require magazine at
all. Like we've kind of gotten to

1459
01:55:57.239 --> 01:56:03.880
the point where we've maximized it.
Yeah, talk to us about retirement and

1460
01:56:04.520 --> 01:56:08.840
what you went on to the transition
process, and then and then we'll talk

1461
01:56:08.840 --> 01:56:14.439
about the music. Sure music always
gets the fucking very end, you know,

1462
01:56:14.960 --> 01:56:19.399
because it is fine. We're following. We're following because because we don't

1463
01:56:19.399 --> 01:56:27.520
like this the artist. Yeah,
this is like communists. Like every everything

1464
01:56:27.520 --> 01:56:30.359
that I do media wise, it's
like always at the very end, it's

1465
01:56:30.359 --> 01:56:33.640
like, talk about your story.
I don't mean a short change, not

1466
01:56:33.720 --> 01:56:36.800
at all. It's like, that's
when people are like and I'm done with

1467
01:56:36.920 --> 01:56:44.520
the I'm done with this. I
was ready to retire, and I feel

1468
01:56:44.560 --> 01:56:50.279
like for a large portion of people
that separated from them from the military,

1469
01:56:50.319 --> 01:56:58.079
whether that was retirement or whether that
was being medically retired or ets ing after

1470
01:56:58.199 --> 01:57:00.159
eight years or whatever it might be. I got to do it on my

1471
01:57:00.279 --> 01:57:05.239
terms. And there's a huge difference
in being able to do something on your

1472
01:57:05.359 --> 01:57:10.760
terms and when that's taken from you. So I lose the lower half of

1473
01:57:10.800 --> 01:57:15.640
my leg and I'm out. Man, It's like that's I was still doing

1474
01:57:15.720 --> 01:57:20.039
my I'm still trying to do that
thing. Right. I was ready to

1475
01:57:20.079 --> 01:57:23.560
retire, and it's kind of like, all right, I've I've had a

1476
01:57:23.600 --> 01:57:26.640
good run. I did a ton
of cool stuff. I work with the

1477
01:57:26.680 --> 01:57:30.439
best people. I you know,
a part of everything that you could be

1478
01:57:30.479 --> 01:57:33.640
a part of, and then some
and I'm just ready to move on and

1479
01:57:33.680 --> 01:57:36.760
do something else. Plus, you
did the thing that you went in to

1480
01:57:36.760 --> 01:57:41.680
see the Air Force recruiter to do
in the first place. Yeah, exactly,

1481
01:57:42.119 --> 01:57:46.000
exactly, So yeah, I was. I was super satisfied, ready

1482
01:57:46.000 --> 01:57:53.920
to you know, move on and
find another challenge. I recognized going into

1483
01:57:54.119 --> 01:58:00.560
that process that I'm gonna lose my
identity, that thing that I sack eight

1484
01:58:00.640 --> 01:58:04.840
years to become this, and then
I spent another twelve years doing that.

1485
01:58:06.319 --> 01:58:12.119
I recognize that's all going away,
and so I knew it was coming,

1486
01:58:12.439 --> 01:58:15.880
and it didn't make it necessarily any
easier, but I kind of knew that

1487
01:58:15.920 --> 01:58:21.560
it was coming. And the one
thing I would say, and this is

1488
01:58:21.600 --> 01:58:29.000
like a double edged sword. I
never fully identified as just being an operator.

1489
01:58:30.560 --> 01:58:33.960
I play guitar, I'm a dad, I was a husband, I

1490
01:58:33.960 --> 01:58:38.520
am a brother. I love doing
these things. You know, all of

1491
01:58:38.560 --> 01:58:45.399
those things were as much a part
of who I was as being an operator.

1492
01:58:45.119 --> 01:58:50.039
And when it came time to not
being an operator anymore, it was

1493
01:58:50.119 --> 01:58:53.760
kind of like, I can follow
on these other things that I have that

1494
01:58:53.800 --> 01:58:59.239
are interests. It could be hobbies, it could be whatever. I started

1495
01:58:59.279 --> 01:59:05.439
struggling, not personally, I started
struggling with other people coming to me telling

1496
01:59:05.479 --> 01:59:12.600
me how they were struggling, and
it bothered me to the point that I

1497
01:59:12.680 --> 01:59:17.039
assembled a small group of former guys
like me was like, how do we

1498
01:59:17.079 --> 01:59:21.840
fix this fucking problem. There's people
that are, you know, full bird

1499
01:59:21.920 --> 01:59:28.920
kernels who were telling me that they're
ready to not be on the planet anymore

1500
01:59:29.039 --> 01:59:32.119
because they're struggling with something so badly, and people that I would never have

1501
01:59:32.319 --> 01:59:36.560
dreamed, you know, confiding in
me, and maybe I was a person

1502
01:59:36.600 --> 01:59:44.319
that was easy to talk to or
whatever. The double edged sword part of

1503
01:59:44.760 --> 01:59:47.920
I'll go backwards a second. The
double edged sword part of like not identifying

1504
01:59:47.960 --> 01:59:55.079
solely as a commando, is that
you're not the best commando. And in

1505
01:59:55.199 --> 02:00:00.399
a school of great white sharks,
it doesn't sit well sometimes, you know.

1506
02:00:00.640 --> 02:00:05.800
So No, I never claimed,
nor will I ever claim, to

1507
02:00:05.880 --> 02:00:13.359
have been the world's best commando.
I've seen tons of the world's best commandos

1508
02:00:14.319 --> 02:00:20.239
be horrible fathers, be horrible husbands, be horrible friends, be horrible drinkers,

1509
02:00:20.319 --> 02:00:27.319
whatever you name it. So when
I talk with young people about what

1510
02:00:27.399 --> 02:00:30.199
they're getting ready or think that they
are getting ready to do, I try

1511
02:00:30.239 --> 02:00:33.680
and explain that to them that just
being the world's greatest commando, you may

1512
02:00:33.680 --> 02:00:40.600
be a failure in everything else in
your life. So you know that it

1513
02:00:40.720 --> 02:00:45.000
takes a toll, right, So
anyway, I got to the point,

1514
02:00:45.199 --> 02:00:49.119
maybe twenty twelve, twenty thirteen,
two years after retirement, where all right,

1515
02:00:49.199 --> 02:00:54.279
people are confiding in me that they're
struggling with stuff. There's nothing that

1516
02:00:54.359 --> 02:00:59.439
exists to help them. You know. I didn't want to start a foundation.

1517
02:00:59.680 --> 02:01:01.319
I did want to be like,
my buddy killed himself, so I'm

1518
02:01:01.319 --> 02:01:03.840
gonna do this thing. I didn't
want to do that. I don't want

1519
02:01:03.840 --> 02:01:11.199
to ask people for money, and
I would every week kind of question,

1520
02:01:11.840 --> 02:01:15.359
you know, go out drinking,
whatever, what do I need to do?

1521
02:01:15.399 --> 02:01:19.039
So I assembled this like small group
of dudes like me that retired from

1522
02:01:19.039 --> 02:01:23.359
the same place, and like,
how do we solve this problem? And

1523
02:01:23.560 --> 02:01:29.159
started going and talking with the unit
leadership about we should be leading to charge

1524
02:01:29.159 --> 02:01:31.960
on this. It's not your job
to transition people out of the military.

1525
02:01:32.560 --> 02:01:36.840
Your job is to kill and capture
high value targets, to do whatever.

1526
02:01:38.640 --> 02:01:42.760
That's your role. I get it. But you have a lot of resources,

1527
02:01:42.800 --> 02:01:45.319
and if there's a way we can
go about doing stuff that's going to

1528
02:01:45.359 --> 02:01:48.560
make people feel better about separating or
retiring, we should be able to figure

1529
02:01:48.560 --> 02:01:51.640
that out. And I kept,
you know, talking with them about stuff

1530
02:01:53.720 --> 02:01:57.960
and got even more frustrated because it
just kind of that's not their job and

1531
02:01:58.119 --> 02:02:00.960
they don't know, you know,
it's I didn't join the army to be

1532
02:02:00.039 --> 02:02:05.039
a you know, squadron commander and
then figure out how to transition people the

1533
02:02:05.039 --> 02:02:09.399
military. It's interesting, like the
perspective of the person who's like in it

1534
02:02:09.600 --> 02:02:13.680
versus out of it, and like
you can be the unit sergeant major one

1535
02:02:13.760 --> 02:02:15.720
day and the next day you're out
of it. Okay, no one out

1536
02:02:15.760 --> 02:02:18.600
on the street gives a shit about
what who you are, what you did.

1537
02:02:18.840 --> 02:02:24.680
Ye, killing people isn't a marketable
job. You know, if you

1538
02:02:24.680 --> 02:02:27.279
want a contract or you want to
do that stuff, you know, have

1539
02:02:27.439 --> 02:02:30.720
at it. But yeah, that's
that's kind of the thing that I recognized.

1540
02:02:30.720 --> 02:02:34.479
And the frustrating part was realizing that
there is much of a problem,

1541
02:02:34.760 --> 02:02:40.800
a much of a part of the
problem as what the guy that's struggling is

1542
02:02:40.640 --> 02:02:45.319
the military leadership. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And the thing is their

1543
02:02:45.399 --> 02:02:50.960
job is to keep their unit operational
and running. So it's easier to ignore

1544
02:02:51.079 --> 02:02:56.920
guys with noticeable problems because those guys, like you say, can be high

1545
02:02:57.000 --> 02:03:01.079
performers on the job. It's just
when you leave them home for eight weeks

1546
02:03:01.359 --> 02:03:06.159
with nothing to do, yeah,
where they fall apart. Sure. So

1547
02:03:08.479 --> 02:03:12.600
I kind of got to a point
where maybe by twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen,

1548
02:03:12.680 --> 02:03:17.039
it just kind of felt like stuff
was falling on deaf ears a buddy

1549
02:03:17.039 --> 02:03:24.840
of mine, Tom Spooner, who
started Warriors Heart, and at the time

1550
02:03:24.920 --> 02:03:27.680
it was kind of a very you
know, there wasn't a lot of social

1551
02:03:27.720 --> 02:03:30.520
media presence. There wasn't a lot
of how do we get people help,

1552
02:03:30.600 --> 02:03:34.640
how do we help raise funds to
get people help, how do we you

1553
02:03:34.640 --> 02:03:38.279
know, do that kind of thing. And he and I didn't necessarily have

1554
02:03:38.319 --> 02:03:42.079
a formal agreement on anything, but
it was kind of like, if I

1555
02:03:42.079 --> 02:03:45.520
can help out in some way and
get the word you know, of the

1556
02:03:45.560 --> 02:03:50.720
service you're providing with the facility that
you've got going, I want to do

1557
02:03:50.800 --> 02:03:56.199
that for you. So yeah,
okay, cool. And anyway, our

1558
02:03:56.279 --> 02:04:00.800
mutual friend Jason Everman, this was
twenty seven team now, so I'm still

1559
02:04:00.880 --> 02:04:04.319
kind of floundering around trying to figure
out exactly what I want to do.

1560
02:04:05.479 --> 02:04:12.640
Twenty seventeen, Jason and I.
He came into Manhattan. We're going to

1561
02:04:12.640 --> 02:04:19.199
see Mastadon at a Hammerstein ballroom.
And I think he knew Bill Kelleher from

1562
02:04:19.239 --> 02:04:25.399
Mastadon and maybe it was a roommate
with him for a while. And anyway,

1563
02:04:25.920 --> 02:04:30.439
as I'm driving into the city,
the light bulb goes off, and

1564
02:04:30.479 --> 02:04:34.680
I was like, I'm going to
put together some kind of music something or

1565
02:04:34.720 --> 02:04:41.039
other, and I'll take the proceeds
of that and I'll contribute it to organizations

1566
02:04:41.039 --> 02:04:45.720
that are helping guys that need help. And I can at least be a

1567
02:04:45.800 --> 02:04:50.640
presence in social media and things like
that to kind of say, hey,

1568
02:04:51.000 --> 02:04:54.960
if you do this, this is
who it's contributing to, and this is

1569
02:04:55.000 --> 02:05:00.560
how it's helping. So and then
I meet up and we're hanging in the

1570
02:05:00.560 --> 02:05:04.239
bar beforehand, and I said,
and for people that don't know who he

1571
02:05:04.399 --> 02:05:12.880
is, he played guitar in Nirvana
and bass in Soundgarden, and then played

1572
02:05:12.880 --> 02:05:18.279
guitar for another couple of years in
mind Funk before Mogadishu happened, and he

1573
02:05:18.359 --> 02:05:25.239
got inspired in ninety four to join
the Army, so you know, was

1574
02:05:25.960 --> 02:05:30.359
touching the scene pretty significantly. And
he and I had been friends for a

1575
02:05:30.399 --> 02:05:34.720
number of years and would meet up
in New York and hang out from time

1576
02:05:34.760 --> 02:05:39.119
to time. But the light bulb
went up, I'm gonna do this music

1577
02:05:39.159 --> 02:05:41.800
thing. I'm gonna see if Jason
wants to be a part of it,

1578
02:05:41.840 --> 02:05:44.880
because that just makes sense. And
I'm literally getting ready to go see him

1579
02:05:44.920 --> 02:05:47.520
in just a few minutes, and
I'm going to ask him to see if

1580
02:05:47.520 --> 02:05:51.000
he wants to do this. So
we're at the bar and I said,

1581
02:05:51.159 --> 02:05:55.840
you know, we're having conversation and
everything else. Hey man, I got

1582
02:05:55.840 --> 02:06:00.000
this idea. I don't know what
it's gonna be. I have no idea.

1583
02:06:00.439 --> 02:06:02.880
You know, it could be just
me and you playing guitars together.

1584
02:06:02.920 --> 02:06:05.960
Like, I have no idea what
it's going to be. You know what,

1585
02:06:06.399 --> 02:06:09.800
I know you've been out of music
for a long time. I know

1586
02:06:09.880 --> 02:06:13.840
that you left with a bad taste
in your mouth. You know. Would

1587
02:06:13.880 --> 02:06:15.960
you want to be a part of
this? And he's like, yeah,

1588
02:06:15.000 --> 02:06:19.600
absolutely, hell yeah. So within
a week or two I started a social

1589
02:06:19.640 --> 02:06:25.439
media page. It was kind of
trying to convey as much as you can

1590
02:06:25.600 --> 02:06:29.680
through pictures and a few words that
people will read. Here's what I'm trying

1591
02:06:29.720 --> 02:06:35.239
to do, and it just kind
of grew organically. So that was in

1592
02:06:35.279 --> 02:06:40.760
like May of twenty seventeen. I
think by July, I have a mar

1593
02:06:40.840 --> 02:06:44.319
SoC officer. Hey man, I
don't know what you got going on.

1594
02:06:44.560 --> 02:06:46.760
I want to be a part of
it. Like do you play an instrument?

1595
02:06:47.239 --> 02:06:51.039
I play bass? Like all right, well, where do you live?

1596
02:06:51.319 --> 02:06:56.199
Raleigh. Okay, I come down
to Raleigh, we hang out.

1597
02:06:56.279 --> 02:07:00.000
I was like, man, a
A list guy, like just awesome.

1598
02:07:00.039 --> 02:07:04.840
I'm human being, phenomenal bass player, you know, kindred spirit, all

1599
02:07:04.880 --> 02:07:08.520
of that stuff. And it's like, yeah, man, you're you're the

1600
02:07:08.560 --> 02:07:12.960
right guy. So it just started
to grow. Doesn't Jason play bass?

1601
02:07:13.199 --> 02:07:18.319
No, so he does guitar stuff
yeah, and you guitar. Yeah.

1602
02:07:18.359 --> 02:07:27.800
So that grows to a point that
by the fall, h a list producer

1603
02:07:28.640 --> 02:07:31.560
hits me up on social media,
sends me a d M. Hey man,

1604
02:07:31.760 --> 02:07:34.800
love what you got going on.
I'd love the produce your album.

1605
02:07:35.000 --> 02:07:41.399
And I'm like, who's this guy? Right? So I google him and

1606
02:07:41.439 --> 02:07:50.239
I'm like, holy shit, this
is Bieber's producer, Celine Dion Bad Bunny

1607
02:07:50.479 --> 02:07:56.840
d Lipa Like it's pretty the pretty, the biggest. So then I don't

1608
02:07:56.840 --> 02:08:00.239
even know who the artists are.
It's like, who's this bad Bunny?

1609
02:08:00.319 --> 02:08:03.199
And I looked that up and it's
like four hundred and ninety ka billion followed

1610
02:08:03.279 --> 02:08:09.760
like holy crap. So I tell
him tell him a straight up line,

1611
02:08:09.000 --> 02:08:13.760
sorry, straight up line, man. Yeah, we're ready to go.

1612
02:08:13.600 --> 02:08:18.640
We've got three people in the We're
ready to go. And he's like,

1613
02:08:18.760 --> 02:08:24.399
okay, my schedule, I've got
like about a two week gap in here

1614
02:08:24.439 --> 02:08:28.760
in January. If you guys can
get out to La I'll book studio time.

1615
02:08:28.800 --> 02:08:31.920
I'll find a place, we'll get
a discounted rate. I'll do all

1616
02:08:31.960 --> 02:08:35.640
this, you know, pro bonome
kind of deal. And uh, man,

1617
02:08:35.720 --> 02:08:41.640
we pulled it together, pulled it
out of our ass, you know,

1618
02:08:41.279 --> 02:08:45.359
and uh and got it across the
who's the band at that point?

1619
02:08:45.680 --> 02:08:54.199
So the band was a guy Brandon
on drums, and you probably know Brandon

1620
02:08:54.239 --> 02:08:58.479
on drums, Jason playing some guitar
stuff. So Jason has always been and

1621
02:08:58.520 --> 02:09:03.880
you know j and Jason is Jason. He's as unplugged as anybody could possibly

1622
02:09:03.920 --> 02:09:09.279
be. He's always been like a
fringe type of member. So he adds

1623
02:09:09.319 --> 02:09:13.960
things to the writing. He adds
things in the studio and these little nuanced

1624
02:09:13.960 --> 02:09:18.560
things that make a huge difference in
a song, but you wouldn't know it,

1625
02:09:18.640 --> 02:09:20.960
Like if you just listen to the
song, the meat and potatoes is

1626
02:09:22.000 --> 02:09:28.039
there. They'll just add a little
flavor to it. Tyson on bass and

1627
02:09:28.479 --> 02:09:33.039
Fred who was an active duty E
nine in the Air Force and he's our

1628
02:09:33.119 --> 02:09:41.039
singer. So that's where we are
in the Fall and we have four rehearsals

1629
02:09:41.079 --> 02:09:46.239
together. Four. We literally joke
about this, were like we recorded the

1630
02:09:46.239 --> 02:09:50.880
first album with about sixteen hours of
total playtime together. That's crazy as a

1631
02:09:50.920 --> 02:09:56.840
complete set, you know. So
yeah, we get to LA and we

1632
02:09:56.920 --> 02:10:00.800
did a lot of We didn't even
have enough material. We had about twelve

1633
02:10:00.800 --> 02:10:03.680
songs. We recorded eight, we
recorded ten, and we wikered that down

1634
02:10:03.720 --> 02:10:09.960
to eight. But we didn't even
know, like, what's our sound,

1635
02:10:09.079 --> 02:10:15.319
right, It's our vibe until you
start to kind of like these four songs

1636
02:10:15.359 --> 02:10:20.439
go together, right, these three
kind of don't go. So we got

1637
02:10:20.479 --> 02:10:24.479
to a point where we cut it
to the stuff that we felt like fit

1638
02:10:24.560 --> 02:10:28.920
together. Once we got that first
album done, it's like, now I

1639
02:10:28.960 --> 02:10:31.000
know our sound, I know what
we are. Now it's very easy for

1640
02:10:31.039 --> 02:10:35.960
me to write more stuff of that
vibe right, that genre, because now

1641
02:10:37.000 --> 02:10:39.319
I know what we are. But
man, it was like pulling teeth to

1642
02:10:39.359 --> 02:10:43.119
get that thing done. So outside
of Barry Manilow, who I love,

1643
02:10:43.199 --> 02:10:46.640
by the way, outside of Barry
Manilow, who were your other influences?

1644
02:10:46.720 --> 02:10:54.159
Like growing up so my folks got
I grew up in suburban Maryland, north

1645
02:10:54.159 --> 02:10:58.840
side of DC, like Bethesda and
my folks took me to me and my

1646
02:10:58.880 --> 02:11:05.600
sister too, like a summer concert
series at Merriweather Post Pavilion, and I

1647
02:11:05.640 --> 02:11:09.840
saw, like as a very little
kid, saw Chicago, the Beach Boys,

1648
02:11:11.119 --> 02:11:13.720
another guy, Mac Davis, it
was kind of like a country guy.

1649
02:11:15.600 --> 02:11:20.159
There was one or two others and
I saw that stuff and it was

1650
02:11:20.239 --> 02:11:24.640
like, this is you know,
this is what I want to do when

1651
02:11:24.680 --> 02:11:28.399
I look back, and I had. It's funny because I had a guy

1652
02:11:28.520 --> 02:11:37.399
asked me the other day through through
the DM and he's like, do you

1653
02:11:37.479 --> 02:11:41.359
feel like you missed out on a
career in music and spent it, you

1654
02:11:41.399 --> 02:11:46.000
know, twenty years in the military
and you really should have been doing a

1655
02:11:46.039 --> 02:11:50.239
career in music. And I was
like, absolutely not. I didn't have

1656
02:11:50.359 --> 02:11:58.880
the depth back then to actually write
anything worth the damn. There are a

1657
02:11:58.920 --> 02:12:01.840
lot of people that are druggling with
a lot of trauma and stuff that are

1658
02:12:01.920 --> 02:12:07.640
really talented people, and that all
comes from somewhere, and in a way,

1659
02:12:07.760 --> 02:12:11.840
it's like I had to go to
the Army to get trauma to be

1660
02:12:11.840 --> 02:12:16.800
able to write. I had a
very accomplished musician once told me that you

1661
02:12:16.840 --> 02:12:22.720
know today's generation are they've gone to
these music schools. They've gone to art

1662
02:12:22.760 --> 02:12:26.039
schools, and they're incredibly talented at
playing their instruments. But the issue is

1663
02:12:26.079 --> 02:12:31.720
they don't have quite the emotional maturity
that they they haven't really loved life.

1664
02:12:31.920 --> 02:12:37.079
Yeah, so people send me the
you know, the here's this like nine

1665
02:12:37.159 --> 02:12:39.600
year old kid on the guitar just
ripping it up, and it's like,

1666
02:12:39.680 --> 02:12:43.159
okay, cool, write a song. You know. I've always identified with

1667
02:12:45.439 --> 02:12:48.560
musical influences. I've always identified with
the people that wrote songs. And there

1668
02:12:50.319 --> 02:12:52.720
there are different, you know,
kind of camps that I subscribe to and

1669
02:12:52.880 --> 02:12:56.600
like. But I look at a
guy like Jerry Cantrell from Alice in Chains

1670
02:12:56.640 --> 02:13:01.039
and he's not the most pyrotechnic guy
on the guitar are but man, can

1671
02:13:01.079 --> 02:13:05.399
he write a song that fucking hits
you? Yeah? Well, I mean

1672
02:13:05.439 --> 02:13:07.840
in the gut? You know.
You mentioned mac Davis. I haven't heard

1673
02:13:07.880 --> 02:13:11.079
that name for years but years,
but he had like he was he was.

1674
02:13:11.399 --> 02:13:13.880
I mean, he had some great
songs that he wrote that other people

1675
02:13:13.960 --> 02:13:18.560
performed, and yeah, phenomenal songwriters. The other thing, performer is another

1676
02:13:18.640 --> 02:13:24.520
thing. So where did Silence and
Light come from? Where did the name

1677
02:13:24.560 --> 02:13:28.119
come from? So the name It
was something that Tyson threw out to me,

1678
02:13:28.359 --> 02:13:33.640
the bass player, marsk officer.
He was like, I'm going to

1679
02:13:33.680 --> 02:13:37.880
send you a picture. Sends me
a picture and I'm looking at it and

1680
02:13:37.960 --> 02:13:43.680
it was like the valley floor in
Afghanistan, probably circa you know, twenty

1681
02:13:43.840 --> 02:13:48.680
fifteen, twenty sixteen, something like
that, and he's like, this was

1682
02:13:48.720 --> 02:13:54.640
always the most surreal photo because it's
like so serene and beautiful, but like

1683
02:13:56.640 --> 02:14:03.199
the stuff that's out there right is
deadly, know, and he goes,

1684
02:14:03.239 --> 02:14:07.079
it reminds me of this poem called
in Between the Silence and the Light,

1685
02:14:07.199 --> 02:14:11.039
and so we started talking about the
poem and he sent me the poem and

1686
02:14:11.079 --> 02:14:15.920
I started reading that and I don't
know how it came to be, but

1687
02:14:16.399 --> 02:14:20.159
we just were kind of like,
what about silence and light? And we

1688
02:14:20.239 --> 02:14:24.800
google it and the only thing you
could find was like maybe three Google entries

1689
02:14:24.840 --> 02:14:28.560
about in Between the Silence and the
Light, and that was about it.

1690
02:14:28.880 --> 02:14:33.640
And anyway, so that's where it
came from. It really didn't have any

1691
02:14:33.199 --> 02:14:39.479
significant meaning. I liked it from
the perspective that like I don't want to

1692
02:14:39.479 --> 02:14:46.520
be like war Machine, you know, it's like so overdone and like a

1693
02:14:46.600 --> 02:14:48.760
name that makes you think of something
like what does this mean to you?

1694
02:14:50.119 --> 02:14:52.600
And people will say, like to
me, it means this, and I

1695
02:14:52.600 --> 02:14:58.600
don't know what it means. It
just I wanted to be something that it's

1696
02:14:58.600 --> 02:15:03.039
thought provoking, like what does it
mean to you? I don't know it

1697
02:15:03.039 --> 02:15:07.800
can mean anything. Oh, it's
like it's like the silence before the bomb

1698
02:15:07.840 --> 02:15:11.920
flash goes up, Like no,
it's not bad, it's not bad.

1699
02:15:11.079 --> 02:15:16.960
But yeah, that's where it came
from though. Yeah. And then in

1700
02:15:16.039 --> 02:15:20.800
terms of like your band, Like
we've talked about your musical influences a lot,

1701
02:15:20.840 --> 02:15:26.880
but in terms of your band,
is there sort of a musical influence

1702
02:15:26.119 --> 02:15:31.680
or musical influences that your band sort
of draws from. So I write all

1703
02:15:31.680 --> 02:15:39.039
the music, I do some of
the lyrics, and usually it's more about

1704
02:15:39.079 --> 02:15:41.359
like, this is the vibe of
the song. This is kind of what

1705
02:15:41.399 --> 02:15:45.640
I was thinking it could be about. I don't want to put words in

1706
02:15:45.760 --> 02:15:50.039
Fred's mouth or make him write or
sing words that he's not good at singing.

1707
02:15:50.760 --> 02:15:56.399
And so there's a lot of you
know, define who writes a song,

1708
02:15:56.600 --> 02:16:01.399
Like everybody's adding their own stuff,
but it's kind of got to be

1709
02:16:01.479 --> 02:16:03.840
in a box, you know,
it's like, you can't come in with

1710
02:16:03.560 --> 02:16:09.399
some wicked tool drum beat and it
fit with something that's meant to be jangly

1711
02:16:09.560 --> 02:16:13.920
nutshell kind of gets you know what
I mean, It's got to work together.

1712
02:16:13.079 --> 02:16:18.600
So we've done a very good job
of speaking the same language and saying

1713
02:16:20.600 --> 02:16:24.359
this is kind of what I'm feeling. People kind of know we're talented enough

1714
02:16:24.399 --> 02:16:26.159
to kind of know what to put
into something to make it sound right,

1715
02:16:26.199 --> 02:16:30.640
and then we just start tweaking it. And then usually I think, like

1716
02:16:30.720 --> 02:16:33.319
most bands, you put something down
in the studio that's not the way we

1717
02:16:33.600 --> 02:16:37.959
rehearsed it a thousand times or played
it or played it live even, and

1718
02:16:39.000 --> 02:16:41.840
then you have to learn how you
played it on the album right, because

1719
02:16:41.840 --> 02:16:43.559
you're like, wait, we tweaked
that one part and we did this and

1720
02:16:43.760 --> 02:16:46.639
changed this, and then you hear
it and it comes out and you're like,

1721
02:16:46.799 --> 02:16:52.000
man, I've been playing that wrong. But yeah, that's that's kind

1722
02:16:52.040 --> 02:16:58.959
of how it comes to be.
But like with this last album that released

1723
02:16:58.000 --> 02:17:05.520
in Gue, it specifically came from
a place in me and I had been

1724
02:17:05.559 --> 02:17:11.159
doing a lot of traveling down to
Benning and hanging out with friends and stuff

1725
02:17:11.200 --> 02:17:13.600
like that. There hanging out with
current Ranger buddies and stuff like that,

1726
02:17:15.399 --> 02:17:22.840
and it's a weird place. I
spent eight years there, and it was

1727
02:17:22.760 --> 02:17:26.120
like the soundtrack of my life when
I was there, with Stone Temple,

1728
02:17:26.159 --> 02:17:33.600
Pilots and Nirvana and all of that
stuff from that era sound Garden, and

1729
02:17:35.360 --> 02:17:39.600
I didn't realize what an impact it
made on me, maybe not as a

1730
02:17:39.639 --> 02:17:43.799
guitar player, but just as a
human. The first time I heard smells

1731
02:17:43.840 --> 02:17:48.959
like teen Spirit was low crawling down
the hallway, you know, in the

1732
02:17:48.040 --> 02:17:52.600
Ranger barracks and hearing that song and
it was like evil and you know,

1733
02:17:52.680 --> 02:17:58.959
my team leaders cranking it and wow, holy shit. And there was also

1734
02:17:58.079 --> 02:18:03.799
this thing where life was very uncertain
back then, like you didn't know if

1735
02:18:03.799 --> 02:18:05.040
you were going to be there.
I'm like, will I make it through

1736
02:18:05.120 --> 02:18:09.600
tomorrow? Am I going to be
here in three months? The guy that

1737
02:18:09.639 --> 02:18:13.120
I was roommates with that said that
he would never quit. Just jacked it

1738
02:18:13.200 --> 02:18:18.639
in this morning and goes packing his
bags and moving down to the RFX RFS

1739
02:18:18.680 --> 02:18:24.520
platoon and he's gone. And it
was just a revolving door of people.

1740
02:18:24.239 --> 02:18:28.360
Guys getting hurt on jumps. This
guy's getting shoulder surgery, and then he's

1741
02:18:28.399 --> 02:18:33.239
out of the army, you know, and I didn't realize what an impact

1742
02:18:33.239 --> 02:18:37.040
it had on me. But this
album is really a part of me.

1743
02:18:37.120 --> 02:18:43.719
Wanted to call it nineteen ninety one
because it really comes from there. Man,

1744
02:18:43.879 --> 02:18:46.360
Like every sound that you hear is
something that was from that era.

1745
02:18:48.159 --> 02:18:56.319
And it's not it's not what do
they call it a concept album. It's

1746
02:18:56.360 --> 02:19:00.600
not that it's but it kind of
is. It's kind of turned into that

1747
02:19:00.680 --> 02:19:03.719
a little bit where it's like a
little bit of everything that really affected me

1748
02:19:03.879 --> 02:19:09.280
and made an impression. I mean, people will have to ultimately go and

1749
02:19:09.399 --> 02:19:13.559
like listen to the album to understand
what it is. But like, yeah,

1750
02:19:13.719 --> 02:19:16.600
I mean I hate to even put
you on the spot to ask you,

1751
02:19:16.680 --> 02:19:20.639
but like, what is that emotion? What what is that place that

1752
02:19:20.639 --> 02:19:24.799
that came from? Well, I
mean I think I just explained it to

1753
02:19:24.840 --> 02:19:33.799
some degree. It was like uncertainty
and despair and also hope and aggression and

1754
02:19:33.360 --> 02:19:37.440
like all of those every emotion that
you could tap into at the time.

1755
02:19:37.559 --> 02:19:39.639
You know, hey, you guys
need to fight. Hey one of our

1756
02:19:39.680 --> 02:19:46.959
privates just got you know, snatched
down on weapons. It's all of that

1757
02:19:46.120 --> 02:19:52.479
stuff, you know, It's the
driving around in and around Fort Benning on

1758
02:19:52.639 --> 02:19:58.200
roads that I've driven thousands of times
and feeling so completely removed from it because

1759
02:19:58.239 --> 02:20:03.079
it's thirty years years later, yeah, twenty six years later or whatever it

1760
02:20:03.159 --> 02:20:05.959
might be. It's kind of all
of that stuff. Yeah, and so

1761
02:20:07.000 --> 02:20:11.200
it really was like this kind of
man very accurate soundtrack of like all my

1762
02:20:11.319 --> 02:20:16.799
feelings and emotions of that time.
And you know what is tomorrow brain?

1763
02:20:16.920 --> 02:20:20.760
I don't know, but I'm gonna
keep going at it, machine under it.

1764
02:20:20.000 --> 02:20:24.239
Yeah. So you know, you
can buy their almost you also listen

1765
02:20:24.319 --> 02:20:28.959
on Spotify Silence and The Light.
If you don't, you're not an American.

1766
02:20:28.280 --> 02:20:31.399
I'm just gonna put that out.
You hate the troops, you hate

1767
02:20:31.520 --> 02:20:37.799
you hate America. Listen. It's
great music. I mean I enjoy like

1768
02:20:37.120 --> 02:20:41.719
you're basically if you have Apple Music, Like first of all, it's on

1769
02:20:41.840 --> 02:20:46.840
every platform that anything that you'll get. You know, we have CDs We've

1770
02:20:46.879 --> 02:20:50.680
got so there are people that still
have a CD player in their truck and

1771
02:20:50.719 --> 02:20:54.680
they don't have the ability to connect
the place World School. Where should we

1772
02:20:54.680 --> 02:20:58.680
go to get the CDs? On
our website? Yeah, So I mean

1773
02:20:58.719 --> 02:21:01.000
if you google Silence online or you
google me, You're going to find everything

1774
02:21:01.000 --> 02:21:05.760
that you need to. You can
also get bomb ass swag and T shirts

1775
02:21:05.760 --> 02:21:09.760
on their website down the description of
this farm, by the way. But

1776
02:21:09.760 --> 02:21:11.639
I want to I want to say
this, and like there there are a

1777
02:21:11.639 --> 02:21:16.360
couple of things, and if there's
this is almost like the SoundBite that goes

1778
02:21:16.440 --> 02:21:20.680
in front of this whole thing.
But sure, the reason I'm doing what

1779
02:21:20.799 --> 02:21:24.319
I'm doing, and the reason that
I started it was because I wanted to

1780
02:21:24.399 --> 02:21:30.840
be you know the old adage of
like rangers lead the way and lead by

1781
02:21:30.879 --> 02:21:37.719
example. It really is I've lived
all the stuff that anybody else can say

1782
02:21:37.719 --> 02:21:43.079
that they've lived. And if I
can figure out a way to do something

1783
02:21:43.280 --> 02:21:48.680
that's healthy and positive and creative and
gives back to the community that I love.

1784
02:21:50.600 --> 02:21:52.559
If I can figure out a way
to do it, anybody can do

1785
02:21:52.639 --> 02:21:58.600
it. Just figure out what it
is and you know, and follow that

1786
02:21:58.719 --> 02:22:03.799
dream. So I put myself out
there to say that it's not I want

1787
02:22:03.799 --> 02:22:07.120
to be a rock star riding around
a limos or anything else. It's to

1788
02:22:07.159 --> 02:22:11.000
say I'm a real person. I
lived all these things. I did all

1789
02:22:11.000 --> 02:22:13.200
these things, and if I can
do it, no matter what you face

1790
02:22:13.360 --> 02:22:18.360
or what you know, stuff is
out there rattling around in your brain.

1791
02:22:18.520 --> 02:22:22.879
If I can do it, you
can do it. The music, Like

1792
02:22:24.000 --> 02:22:28.040
if you buy an album, great, it's just more royalty that we're contributing

1793
02:22:28.159 --> 02:22:33.639
to places like Warriors Heart, places
like Marine Raider Foundation that do a lot

1794
02:22:33.639 --> 02:22:39.000
of good stuff for a lot of
people. If you stream it, you're

1795
02:22:39.040 --> 02:22:43.159
still contributing. So like, there's
no reason why everybody can't get on to

1796
02:22:43.280 --> 02:22:50.159
Spotify or Apple Music or Google Play
or YouTube or it's on every platform you'd

1797
02:22:50.159 --> 02:22:56.959
normally get music. So anyway,
we're taking all of those royalties and we're

1798
02:22:56.959 --> 02:23:01.600
contributing those to not those like the
Spotify, Google Play things like that.

1799
02:23:01.680 --> 02:23:11.600
Apple royalties work. Is it Is
it more beneficial? And for I mean,

1800
02:23:11.079 --> 02:23:18.040
is it more beneficial people like buy
an album? Uh? Is it

1801
02:23:18.079 --> 02:23:22.399
more benefic Get the CD? Don't
be aus, get the CD. And

1802
02:23:22.600 --> 02:23:26.120
the plan is to do some vinyl
here soon too. But you know,

1803
02:23:26.239 --> 02:23:31.280
it's it's more lucrative. Royalties are
more lucrative with purchases than they are with

1804
02:23:31.360 --> 02:23:35.920
streams. Streaming you have to hit
a certain mark before it becomes actually like

1805
02:23:35.040 --> 02:23:41.360
Metallica lucrative, right poper Roach lucrative. You know, we could probably name

1806
02:23:41.440 --> 02:23:45.319
artists and at the point it's like
it's pennies, you know. So if

1807
02:23:45.399 --> 02:23:50.639
we sell a song for ninety nine
cents, Apple is taking thirty cents of

1808
02:23:50.680 --> 02:23:56.959
that. That the forget what the
name is called, but the service that

1809
02:23:58.000 --> 02:24:01.399
we use that does all the upload
yeah, basically codifies everything and it puts

1810
02:24:01.479 --> 02:24:07.879
a GPC code on it and that's
that's how music is bought and everything else

1811
02:24:07.120 --> 02:24:13.799
is GPC code we get Once a
song is done. We end up with

1812
02:24:13.879 --> 02:24:18.280
about sixty three cents if you buy
it, if you stream it, you

1813
02:24:18.319 --> 02:24:20.479
know, who knows, We've got
to be in the thousands. We're like

1814
02:24:20.520 --> 02:24:26.440
approaching a million streams on stuff.
So yeah, buy it done by buy

1815
02:24:26.520 --> 02:24:28.000
it. If you don't want to
buy it, stream it. And we

1816
02:24:28.079 --> 02:24:33.120
made a decision way long ago.
We were like, let's just sell CDs

1817
02:24:33.479 --> 02:24:35.440
yeah, and they're like, I'd
rather people just have access to the music.

1818
02:24:35.600 --> 02:24:41.280
Yeah, And it's connected with a
lot of people. There's two albums

1819
02:24:41.280 --> 02:24:43.799
worth a really good stuff. It's
only getting better. We'll be doing another

1820
02:24:43.879 --> 02:24:48.719
EP here in a few months.
So so now just like a three or

1821
02:24:48.719 --> 02:24:50.799
four song thing. So this is
what I recommend in order you know,

1822
02:24:50.959 --> 02:24:56.079
to help the causes by it is
buy it, buy it but don't listen

1823
02:24:56.440 --> 02:25:03.000
to the CD, or don't listen
to it to what you buy, listen

1824
02:25:03.079 --> 02:25:07.840
to it on Spotify, so that
it adds up every time. Sure,

1825
02:25:07.879 --> 02:25:13.520
so buy it and then stream it
every every little bit helps. Other thing

1826
02:25:13.639 --> 02:25:24.319
is, you know, recording albums
isn't cheap. Mixing, mastering, you

1827
02:25:24.360 --> 02:25:28.000
know you're you're talking about. Mastering
a song is about one thousand dollars a

1828
02:25:28.000 --> 02:25:31.719
song. So just mastering that album, which makes it the same whether you

1829
02:25:31.760 --> 02:25:35.120
listen to it on a device or
you listen to it in your headphones or

1830
02:25:35.159 --> 02:25:39.079
you listen to it in your car. That's the thing that kind of makes

1831
02:25:39.120 --> 02:25:43.319
everything sound okay and no matter what
platform. So that just that in itself

1832
02:25:43.360 --> 02:25:46.920
is about one thousand dollars a song. So we have twelve tunes on this

1833
02:25:46.000 --> 02:25:52.680
album. That's twelve g's just in
mastering, mixing, maybe about the same

1834
02:25:52.639 --> 02:26:00.000
studio time, hotels, food,
all of that stuff is incredibly expended.

1835
02:26:00.399 --> 02:26:05.799
So if people buy merchandise, that's
one of the ways that we can help

1836
02:26:05.920 --> 02:26:09.920
recoup and not even recoup, it's
more like start balance sort of offset.

1837
02:26:09.159 --> 02:26:13.520
Yeah, we've just kind of gotten
to the point where it's like starting to

1838
02:26:13.559 --> 02:26:16.280
pay for itself, you know,
and I view that as success from the

1839
02:26:16.319 --> 02:26:20.719
beginning of Like, if we can
make enough selling merchandise, you know,

1840
02:26:20.760 --> 02:26:22.479
we play a show, we saw
like eight hundred dollars in merchant Like,

1841
02:26:22.520 --> 02:26:26.399
okay, it starts to kind of
help the offset some of those costs.

1842
02:26:26.440 --> 02:26:31.200
But that's the way if you want
to contribute and help the band, That's

1843
02:26:31.239 --> 02:26:37.520
one of the ways you can directly
contribute is by buying merchandise. What's uh?

1844
02:26:39.000 --> 02:26:41.879
I mean you said that there's maybe
an EP coming in the near future,

1845
02:26:41.920 --> 02:26:48.159
but what do you see as the
future for the band? Definitely going

1846
02:26:48.239 --> 02:26:50.520
to be playing a bunch of shows. So we've got one next week in

1847
02:26:50.639 --> 02:26:56.520
Virginia Beach. We've got I think
two or three lined up in Wilmington,

1848
02:26:56.799 --> 02:27:01.840
Raleigh. But our goal is really
to be like we don't want to.

1849
02:27:03.319 --> 02:27:05.799
Yeah, it's a nice scream,
that's just life around. Yeah, we

1850
02:27:05.840 --> 02:27:09.399
don't we don't want to, you
know, get in a van and drive

1851
02:27:09.479 --> 02:27:13.360
up and down the East Coast playing
for seven people on a Thursday night,

1852
02:27:13.079 --> 02:27:16.000
right, Like that's now. We
do a lot of special events, and

1853
02:27:16.360 --> 02:27:18.319
I've done a lot of one off
shows and things like that with different folks.

1854
02:27:18.319 --> 02:27:22.360
Our first show was playing with Lenny
Kravitz in front of about five thousand

1855
02:27:22.360 --> 02:27:26.879
people, so still it was kind
of like yeah, yeah, yeah,

1856
02:27:28.000 --> 02:27:30.719
yeah, So we did that,
and we've done that, I think three

1857
02:27:30.799 --> 02:27:35.239
times. Play with Third Eye Blind, play with Old Dominion. We did

1858
02:27:35.280 --> 02:27:39.040
like just an unplugged kind of acoustic
set because we're like their country, We're

1859
02:27:39.079 --> 02:27:43.399
not. We don't want to come
out and be banging all over everything.

1860
02:27:43.479 --> 02:27:48.360
So yeah, but twenty twenty four
should be a lot of shows, and

1861
02:27:48.639 --> 02:27:52.120
our goal is really to kind of
get in and be like the act that

1862
02:27:52.239 --> 02:27:56.600
opens for the Melbourns. When the
Melbourn's playing Raleigh Downtown in front of two

1863
02:27:56.600 --> 02:28:00.120
thousand people, we can bring in
one hundred extra people or something. You

1864
02:28:00.159 --> 02:28:03.520
know. That's that's kind of where
we want to be. Uh And for

1865
02:28:03.600 --> 02:28:11.799
people who are not watching this,
uh So the information and audio questions questions

1866
02:28:11.840 --> 02:28:18.959
for Brad, there are many questions. There are many questions, so hopefully

1867
02:28:18.040 --> 02:28:26.799
there's not just like one. So
check out It's fun, Silence and Light

1868
02:28:28.120 --> 02:28:33.559
music dot com to buy the CD, to buy the swag. I've got

1869
02:28:33.639 --> 02:28:37.000
my swag and I'm buying more.
You have a really cool T shirt that

1870
02:28:37.040 --> 02:28:39.600
was out of stock when I went
to order it last time. It's back

1871
02:28:39.639 --> 02:28:45.040
on it. So the issue with
that was the screen printing. This is

1872
02:28:45.040 --> 02:28:50.200
one of the things you learn about
a band is business man. It's like,

1873
02:28:50.760 --> 02:28:56.319
no, everything like this is silence
unless incorporated. It's going to have

1874
02:28:56.399 --> 02:28:58.200
like, am I paying taxes on
the money that's coming in? Who's paying

1875
02:28:58.200 --> 02:29:01.879
taxes on them? You have to
figure out every aspect of this. Who's

1876
02:29:01.879 --> 02:29:05.959
doing the design for the artwork?
You know, where is this coming from?

1877
02:29:05.040 --> 02:29:09.399
What fonts are we using? Video
questions about this podcast? And I

1878
02:29:09.440 --> 02:29:13.840
think I think the meat we should
be paying taxes on this podcast. I

1879
02:29:13.879 --> 02:29:16.760
should hook up with a girl for
some of your swag. Yeah, we've

1880
02:29:16.760 --> 02:29:22.799
done. I hooked up with her
like four years. Have you seen this?

1881
02:29:22.719 --> 02:29:26.079
Yeah? She's rad man. Yeah, I started. I started promoting

1882
02:29:26.079 --> 02:29:30.319
her stuff all over the place probably
like four or five years. You know,

1883
02:29:30.360 --> 02:29:35.879
we're super happy original work of hers
here. Yeah, go ahead please,

1884
02:29:35.159 --> 02:29:39.120
I've got a print that she did
and I kind of gave her some

1885
02:29:39.159 --> 02:29:43.559
guidance on it and she did one
that was fucking amazing. That's awesome.

1886
02:29:43.879 --> 02:29:46.959
Have you guys done any swag with
her yet? No? Let me know

1887
02:29:46.959 --> 02:29:52.840
when you do, because I'm all
about it. Okay, So all right,

1888
02:30:01.040 --> 02:30:05.959
what is this baker hitch? Thank
you very much? Would you let

1889
02:30:05.040 --> 02:30:13.959
Andrew Tait on your soft team?
Uh, you're gonna You're gonna have to

1890
02:30:13.959 --> 02:30:18.879
ask the other Jack Murphy about that
question. Uh. I am the reporter

1891
02:30:20.079 --> 02:30:24.600
Jack Murphy, not the masculinity expert
Jack Murphy. So look, I'm the

1892
02:30:24.719 --> 02:30:30.120
I'm the real giga Chad. That
guy is just fraud. But you're gonna

1893
02:30:30.120 --> 02:30:31.959
have to go and talk to him
about Andrew Tait. I can't. I

1894
02:30:33.000 --> 02:30:37.559
can't answer that, and I don't
think Brad can either. Yeah, I

1895
02:30:37.559 --> 02:30:39.959
don't know who he is. Good
for you, you're a better man for

1896
02:30:41.040 --> 02:30:48.159
it, Alejandro Ranger two seven five, Thanks very much. When you got

1897
02:30:48.200 --> 02:30:52.840
to the unit where you disappointed by
the lack of dirt bikes with rockets like

1898
02:30:52.879 --> 02:30:58.159
the Chuck Norris movies, gotta ask
the real questions. Mm No, definitely

1899
02:30:58.239 --> 02:31:03.959
not disappointed. Yeah, definitely not
disappointed. He was there, he was

1900
02:31:05.000 --> 02:31:09.440
there to greet me. Shock gave
you the like son of a bitch.

1901
02:31:09.840 --> 02:31:15.399
It's funny because I never I never
saw that movie before. You know,

1902
02:31:16.239 --> 02:31:18.200
I think at some point in like
The Rangers, I saw it, but

1903
02:31:18.280 --> 02:31:22.879
I never saw it before joining the
military. And to be honest, I

1904
02:31:22.879 --> 02:31:24.559
don't know where when I told a
recruiter that's what I wanted to do,

1905
02:31:24.799 --> 02:31:28.719
I don't even where. Did you
know that? Yeah, because it wasn't

1906
02:31:28.840 --> 02:31:35.079
definitely wasn't a thing. When I
think of a secret unit has motorcycles with

1907
02:31:35.239 --> 02:31:39.159
rockets, I don't think fire.
I think Mega Force with the flying motorcycles.

1908
02:31:39.680 --> 02:31:43.319
That's way before your time. That's
way before my time. Do you

1909
02:31:43.360 --> 02:31:48.079
remember Mega Force? Yeah? Yeah, I do remember Chuck with a dirt

1910
02:31:48.120 --> 02:31:50.559
bike and like firing these like mini
rockets off of the s dirit bikes.

1911
02:31:50.680 --> 02:31:56.520
It's like huge, like gasoline explosion, super lightweight technical. Yeah yeah.

1912
02:31:56.959 --> 02:32:03.280
Uh. Also, Alejandro are thank
you girdo question? I saw that you

1913
02:32:03.319 --> 02:32:07.600
play Orange amps? What made you
choose them over others? What guitars and

1914
02:32:07.719 --> 02:32:13.399
effects are you running? Thanks for
coming on, dude, that's a lot.

1915
02:32:13.879 --> 02:32:16.920
Let's see. So Orange are no
longer. I haven't been playing those

1916
02:32:16.959 --> 02:32:22.399
for a few years, so there's
probably like some Google images and stuff like

1917
02:32:22.440 --> 02:32:28.319
that that have those, but I'm
currently playing Bogners and I probably won't switch

1918
02:32:28.399 --> 02:32:31.440
or DBA from those. It's like
the first amp that I've found that has

1919
02:32:31.520 --> 02:32:37.200
like a amazing clean and dirty channel. And it also I had some Friedman

1920
02:32:37.479 --> 02:32:43.799
JJ's, which this guy will probably
know what those are, but it sounded

1921
02:32:43.879 --> 02:32:48.840
like I felt like I sounded like
somebody else. And the Bogners are the

1922
02:32:48.840 --> 02:32:52.120
first amps that I've played that are
like, it feels like it sounds like

1923
02:32:52.200 --> 02:32:58.520
me. In terms of effects,
I'm pretty like basic. So I've got

1924
02:32:58.520 --> 02:33:01.399
some stuff that I'll use, the
color stuff, but mainly that's just for

1925
02:33:01.479 --> 02:33:05.600
live shit. I've got a bunch
of vintage pedals that I'll use in the

1926
02:33:05.680 --> 02:33:13.879
studio, but they're not They're not
like roadworthy, Like I'm not gonna step

1927
02:33:13.879 --> 02:33:18.559
on those half lit on a stage
jumping around like it'll break them. So

1928
02:33:18.159 --> 02:33:22.360
I'll use them in the studio.
And then I've got like rugged eyes Boss

1929
02:33:22.360 --> 02:33:26.760
stuff that I'll use like on my
pedal board for live stuff. In terms

1930
02:33:26.760 --> 02:33:31.760
of guitars, I'm kind of all
in on on Fender strats and I modify

1931
02:33:31.799 --> 02:33:37.600
all those or I buy custom shop
models and they all have the same pickup

1932
02:33:37.600 --> 02:33:41.840
in them, like a MotorCity halfway
U I use basically all they all sound

1933
02:33:41.879 --> 02:33:46.360
the same. So and then I've
got other stuff that like I've finned the

1934
02:33:46.399 --> 02:33:52.200
guitar herd considerably, but I've got
other stuff that I'll use to record telecasters

1935
02:33:52.399 --> 02:33:56.280
or Gibson Less Paul specials or you
know, stuff like that. But as

1936
02:33:56.280 --> 02:34:00.719
far as just playing in the comfortability, like, I'm definitely in under strat

1937
02:34:00.799 --> 02:34:05.799
ish guy, if you have an
unlimited budget, if there has there been

1938
02:34:07.040 --> 02:34:09.559
like a guitar that's come up for
auction and that's been sold, that you

1939
02:34:09.639 --> 02:34:16.399
would have been like, that's it. The only one that so interestingly,

1940
02:34:16.399 --> 02:34:20.920
I think David Gilmour's black Strat sold
for like three point four million at auction,

1941
02:34:22.920 --> 02:34:28.879
No big deal, Yeah no,
no big whoop. Jimmy Hendrix's star

1942
02:34:28.920 --> 02:34:31.600
spangled banner woodstock Strat would be the
one that I would want, and I

1943
02:34:31.600 --> 02:34:35.639
would play the fuck out of it. It's not staying really yeah, there's

1944
02:34:35.680 --> 02:34:39.600
no way I'm letting that thing sit
in the case. And I think the

1945
02:34:39.639 --> 02:34:43.719
people that buy those are investors,
Yeah they're not. They're just looking for

1946
02:34:43.840 --> 02:34:48.319
it to which this is kind of
like a crazy sidebar and I don't know

1947
02:34:48.399 --> 02:34:50.440
like what our time is here,
but I'm a blabber, So whatever the

1948
02:34:50.440 --> 02:34:58.200
fuck You're like, there's eight people
watching, so now there's I had this

1949
02:34:58.399 --> 02:35:03.280
argument. It's always a band argument
with like how long is David Gilmour strap

1950
02:35:03.360 --> 02:35:11.799
worth three point four million dollars?
Like at some point nobody cares about David

1951
02:35:11.840 --> 02:35:16.799
Gilmour because our pop culture isn't feeding
that machine anymore. Nobody's listening to that,

1952
02:35:16.920 --> 02:35:20.639
so is it kind of like?
Then they'll bring up the counterpoint is

1953
02:35:20.680 --> 02:35:24.040
like, well, I'm sure if
Beethoven's piano bench was for sale that it

1954
02:35:24.079 --> 02:35:28.399
would fetch a lot of money.
Well, like, sure, but is

1955
02:35:28.079 --> 02:35:33.440
Beethoven correlate to David Gilmore or is
that just only have value now? While

1956
02:35:33.440 --> 02:35:39.319
there are people that are rich from
that era that can support investing in buying

1957
02:35:39.319 --> 02:35:43.079
that, I just can't think of
another instrument where it'd be like pick your

1958
02:35:43.079 --> 02:35:48.159
guy, you know who might be. I mean, but it's it's of

1959
02:35:48.239 --> 02:35:54.799
every generation they're going to be like
aficionados and of those officionados and also and

1960
02:35:54.959 --> 02:35:58.040
I was gonna say, of those
officionados, some get rich. But it's

1961
02:35:58.079 --> 02:36:03.360
also that some rich people as they're
like what do I spend my money on

1962
02:36:05.559 --> 02:36:11.040
sort of developed taste too. I
mean sure, like Superman Number one went

1963
02:36:11.040 --> 02:36:15.680
for five point three million dollars,
right, and it's not it's not that

1964
02:36:15.719 --> 02:36:18.719
there are a ton of people that
are crazy about Superman, like they know

1965
02:36:18.760 --> 02:36:22.920
them from the movies. But you
have to be somebody who one has the

1966
02:36:22.959 --> 02:36:26.879
money and two wants to collect I
guess, yeah, you know, and

1967
02:36:28.120 --> 02:36:33.000
yeah, willing to spend above what
somebody else is willing to spend absolutely absolutely

1968
02:36:33.120 --> 02:36:37.000
so that it's in your house.
Yeah, yeah, I totally get it.

1969
02:36:37.040 --> 02:36:39.440
I just feel like there's a there's
a time limit on the value of

1970
02:36:39.479 --> 02:36:46.120
something like David Gilmour, right,
Kirk Cobain's acoustic guitar that he played the

1971
02:36:46.200 --> 02:36:50.479
Unplugged Show with and his cardigan that
he wore during it, and there was

1972
02:36:50.559 --> 02:36:56.200
like something else that sold for like
seven million, you know. And again

1973
02:36:56.239 --> 02:36:58.440
it's like, Okay, if you're
a person that has that kind of income,

1974
02:37:00.440 --> 02:37:03.920
sure, and you're a fan,
sure, But I don't know if

1975
02:37:03.079 --> 02:37:09.600
that'll still be as notable in twenty
years because the music probably isn't going to

1976
02:37:09.639 --> 02:37:16.040
be around the same way and we'll
have moved on right generations by then,

1977
02:37:16.239 --> 02:37:18.479
you know. But there will,
but there will also always be like there

1978
02:37:18.479 --> 02:37:24.239
are cycles too, and and there
there are always people like kurk Obain,

1979
02:37:24.360 --> 02:37:28.440
Prince, like there. I don't
think there's stuff. They will always have

1980
02:37:28.520 --> 02:37:33.559
a following no matter how what generation. Yeah, and people, you know,

1981
02:37:33.680 --> 02:37:37.040
people in that generation, someone will
have money. And to think that

1982
02:37:37.319 --> 02:37:43.120
I'm the person of my generation.
You know, when I'm eighty, my

1983
02:37:43.479 --> 02:37:50.319
kids and grandkids may not care about
this. Yeah right, yeah, Jackson,

1984
02:37:50.600 --> 02:37:52.799
thank you very much. What was
the difference in culture like between the

1985
02:37:52.879 --> 02:37:58.920
squadrons during your time in the unit. Uh, that's like anywhere in the

1986
02:37:58.959 --> 02:38:03.159
military, like third platoon sucks,
first platoons the best. You know,

1987
02:38:03.319 --> 02:38:09.239
it's just it's always different. So
what I've noticed in terms of culture between

1988
02:38:09.399 --> 02:38:15.200
different organizations is like it comes down
to like how small you want to reduce

1989
02:38:15.239 --> 02:38:20.719
it. You know, when we
had ranger rendezvous every year or every two

1990
02:38:20.840 --> 02:38:26.040
years, it'd be like three seven
five is the best. But once you

1991
02:38:26.120 --> 02:38:28.840
guys left, it'd be like,
well, B companies better than R A

1992
02:38:30.000 --> 02:38:33.280
and C. And then in B
company it's like, well, third platoons

1993
02:38:33.319 --> 02:38:37.639
the platoon to be in, and
then well in third platoon second, third

1994
02:38:37.680 --> 02:38:43.680
and weapon squad suck. So first
squad is you know everything. Yeah,

1995
02:38:45.000 --> 02:38:46.799
it just wickers it down. Yeah, And you have nicknames, like you

1996
02:38:46.840 --> 02:38:52.479
make up nicknames for the other companies
for the platoons like, yeah, hate

1997
02:38:52.600 --> 02:38:56.120
all the way around. Yeah,
unless you know, it's just everybody's got

1998
02:38:56.120 --> 02:38:58.680
a band, But it's good to
have a nemesis like that, kind of

1999
02:38:58.040 --> 02:39:03.239
that kind of like competition keeps you
sharp, absolutely, Alejandra, thank you

2000
02:39:03.360 --> 02:39:07.959
very much, buddy, same question
I got, Pat Mac. What bands

2001
02:39:07.000 --> 02:39:11.520
are you listening to and have on
your play least? What bands up and

2002
02:39:11.559 --> 02:39:18.639
coming should peeps be on the lookout
for. Let's see. So, I'm

2003
02:39:18.760 --> 02:39:22.040
in the middle of doing a lot
of writing, and when I do a

2004
02:39:22.040 --> 02:39:26.000
lot of writing, I try not
to listen to stuff that I feel like

2005
02:39:26.120 --> 02:39:31.639
is gonna color my palette. Uh
huh. So I would love to be

2006
02:39:31.760 --> 02:39:39.159
listening to certain things like Alison Chains
and stp Is probably like that's my been

2007
02:39:39.239 --> 02:39:43.319
my go to for a number of
years, And I feel like I like

2008
02:39:43.399 --> 02:39:46.760
stuff that's diverse. I like stuff
that the guitar on this song doesn't sound

2009
02:39:46.799 --> 02:39:50.479
the same as a guitar on that
song, And there's an acoustic song.

2010
02:39:50.600 --> 02:39:56.120
This one's got acoustic and electric and
everything is a little different. Bands like

2011
02:39:56.159 --> 02:39:58.479
Aerosmith did that. You know,
not every song sounds exactly the same.

2012
02:40:00.120 --> 02:40:03.879
Kill them all, you know,
Metallica's first album, same guitar, same

2013
02:40:03.920 --> 02:40:09.280
settings, same sound, every song, and that works for that ac DC,

2014
02:40:09.760 --> 02:40:13.120
same kind of thing. So I
like, I like stuff that's a

2015
02:40:13.159 --> 02:40:20.920
little more diverse song to song on
an album. But I am listening currently

2016
02:40:20.159 --> 02:40:28.559
to a ton of seventies like not
even I guess it would be like pop

2017
02:40:28.799 --> 02:40:35.440
seventies pop. And when I'm not
listening to that, I'm listening to a

2018
02:40:35.479 --> 02:40:39.559
new wave. And I was a
fan of that stuff when it came out

2019
02:40:39.719 --> 02:40:43.479
back in the early eighties. But
it doesn't color you know, when I

2020
02:40:43.520 --> 02:40:46.959
pick up a guitar and start like
jamming a heavy riff and it's not like,

2021
02:40:48.440 --> 02:40:50.639
well that was kind of like love, hey love, you know,

2022
02:40:50.719 --> 02:40:54.879
or that was kind of like this, and it keeps me away from that.

2023
02:40:56.000 --> 02:41:03.000
So you're not adding a synthesizer to
your what no synthesizer keyboards like what

2024
02:41:03.159 --> 02:41:07.920
sounds and third album had keyboards though, Yeah, how tough is that as

2025
02:41:07.920 --> 02:41:09.360
a musician, because you know,
one of the things you say, is

2026
02:41:09.399 --> 02:41:15.280
it you like switching up. We're
not every song you know where it's not

2027
02:41:15.319 --> 02:41:18.159
the same guitar, it's not the
same sound. But also, like some

2028
02:41:18.280 --> 02:41:22.520
of the fans, it's like this
is nothing like their their other stuff,

2029
02:41:22.559 --> 02:41:28.079
Like I like this sound of silence
and light not you know, it's interesting.

2030
02:41:28.159 --> 02:41:35.200
So releasing this album and now because
we have multiples on like we're verified

2031
02:41:35.319 --> 02:41:39.040
artists on all the platforms, we
can see all of our analytics and everything

2032
02:41:39.079 --> 02:41:43.399
else. And our first album is
actually streaming better than our second album,

2033
02:41:43.440 --> 02:41:48.239
although our second album is by far
better in terms of maturity, in terms

2034
02:41:48.280 --> 02:41:52.440
of everything. It sounds better.
It just it's way more but where it

2035
02:41:52.600 --> 02:41:56.399
falls. So it's like when you
go to our page, the first one

2036
02:41:56.399 --> 02:42:01.639
that pops up is the old album, and it's like we're getting more streams

2037
02:42:01.680 --> 02:42:05.239
on older songs and we're getting on
newer songs. Yeah, not because they're

2038
02:42:05.280 --> 02:42:07.440
not good. I don't think it's
because people don't like them. Yeah,

2039
02:42:07.479 --> 02:42:13.399
there's such a difference. There is
a change from like from one to two

2040
02:42:13.000 --> 02:42:16.959
and the stuff that I'm writing for
three, Like I've already got eight songs

2041
02:42:18.000 --> 02:42:22.600
pretty much done, probably eight ten
songs pretty much done. We just want

2042
02:42:22.600 --> 02:42:28.239
to do like a three song EP
just to throw something out. We also

2043
02:42:28.879 --> 02:42:35.319
have a goal to like legit old
school record, meaning two tape live tracking,

2044
02:42:35.920 --> 02:42:41.559
just like Zeppelin did, Just like
everybody else did we almost We did

2045
02:42:41.559 --> 02:42:46.200
that on some stuff on this second
album, and we also took all of

2046
02:42:46.239 --> 02:42:50.959
our pro tools digital recordings and kind
of came up with the idea of like

2047
02:42:52.079 --> 02:42:56.120
running those to a tape machine and
then bouncing them back as so it gave

2048
02:42:56.159 --> 02:43:01.520
it like the analog warmth tape x
the way stuff sounds. So if you

2049
02:43:01.600 --> 02:43:07.319
listen to Angus Young's guitar live,
it does not sound like it sounds on

2050
02:43:07.360 --> 02:43:09.559
the album. It gets impressed on
the tape, which makes it sound a

2051
02:43:09.559 --> 02:43:13.639
little heavier, which makes it sound
a little more distorted, like all that

2052
02:43:13.680 --> 02:43:18.159
stuff. It's super geeky, but
we want to live track all our all

2053
02:43:18.200 --> 02:43:22.200
of our scratch tracks, and then
we'll overdub stuff and things like that,

2054
02:43:22.239 --> 02:43:24.280
but then then bounce it to pro
tools. Yeah, and then we can

2055
02:43:24.399 --> 02:43:28.440
kind of do the cut and paste
and scalpeling. Like this kick drum is

2056
02:43:28.479 --> 02:43:33.559
a little off, it's a millisecond
fast or whatever. That's the genius of

2057
02:43:33.639 --> 02:43:37.239
pro tools is like the second verse
you fucked up all the way through.

2058
02:43:39.000 --> 02:43:41.319
We're just gonna copy and paste the
third verse and drop it in. It's

2059
02:43:41.360 --> 02:43:45.719
literally it's just like that's the way
stuff is recorded. There. Yeah,

2060
02:43:45.840 --> 02:43:48.799
yeah, and it's all on a
grid and it's like very the music doesn't

2061
02:43:48.879 --> 02:43:54.559
change, the beat doesn't change.
It's like everything's like a machine. So

2062
02:43:54.719 --> 02:43:58.200
that's that whole feel thing. Yeah, so this album, none of it's

2063
02:43:58.200 --> 02:44:01.200
on a grid like it's it's very
much much you know live. That's very

2064
02:44:01.239 --> 02:44:07.479
cool. Yeah, Jackson, thank
you very much. Did you enjoy selection

2065
02:44:07.719 --> 02:44:11.319
and OTC? What was your most
favorite moment, every moment of it?

2066
02:44:11.440 --> 02:44:15.639
Looking back? What was your most
favorite moment looking back on your time during

2067
02:44:15.639 --> 02:44:22.159
the training process. Let's see,
without fully answering the question, because I

2068
02:44:22.200 --> 02:44:28.959
don't think that I really can selection, I had a blast, and again,

2069
02:44:28.040 --> 02:44:33.879
there's a tangible selection, and there's
an intangible selection and timing and luck

2070
02:44:33.799 --> 02:44:37.360
are as much of a factor as
any skill. And I think when we

2071
02:44:37.479 --> 02:44:43.040
live those things, we tend to
say it's me, it's skill. I

2072
02:44:43.120 --> 02:44:46.879
did this, I did it happen
right, That's exactly. That's what like

2073
02:44:46.920 --> 02:44:50.879
boosts our confidence and everything else.
Looking back, it's like, dude,

2074
02:44:50.879 --> 02:44:54.200
I was one step away from falling
off the side of this fucking thing and

2075
02:44:54.399 --> 02:44:58.559
breaking my ankle and everything else,
And there's so much luck involved my OTC

2076
02:44:58.680 --> 02:45:03.120
class. We had a guy killed
in a helo crash, So like,

2077
02:45:03.120 --> 02:45:07.200
this shit is no joke. This
isn't. This isn't I'm going and doing

2078
02:45:07.239 --> 02:45:13.040
paintball in a room. It's serious
business, right And from day one,

2079
02:45:13.319 --> 02:45:18.840
I think when I passed selection and
I got selected, the weight and gravity

2080
02:45:18.840 --> 02:45:24.440
of the situation hit me and that
was now it counts like now I'm just

2081
02:45:24.600 --> 02:45:30.559
starting. And then you get through
the training course and you're like, now

2082
02:45:30.559 --> 02:45:35.239
I get to go prove myself to
my team. So there is no sense

2083
02:45:35.239 --> 02:45:37.760
of accomplishment. And I'm sure you
get that you've been in the Rangers,

2084
02:45:37.959 --> 02:45:43.600
in Special Forces anywhere. It's like
you're constantly in a point of having to

2085
02:45:43.639 --> 02:45:46.440
prove yourself. You know. It
never stops, so you never like,

2086
02:45:48.000 --> 02:45:50.159
oh yeah, man, I made
it. I'm great now. I think

2087
02:45:50.200 --> 02:45:54.079
after you've been in the building a
certain number of years and you're like,

2088
02:45:54.440 --> 02:45:58.000
whatever they throw at me, I
can handle. Okay, cool, you

2089
02:45:58.040 --> 02:46:01.440
know I'm amongst you know, the
tribe. Now, yeah, maybe it

2090
02:46:01.520 --> 02:46:05.000
levels off a little bit, but
yeah, you know, yeah, it's

2091
02:46:05.040 --> 02:46:11.239
no joke. Jos, gotcha.
Thank you very much. With your past

2092
02:46:11.360 --> 02:46:18.360
experience at r D, did the
unit try to push you out of sea

2093
02:46:18.360 --> 02:46:22.719
squadron into the operational support troupe and
do more clandestine stuff. I don't know

2094
02:46:22.760 --> 02:46:28.440
what he's talking about, Okay,
Clayton Jensen, thanks very much, buddy.

2095
02:46:28.879 --> 02:46:31.559
I don't see a question there,
so if you have a question,

2096
02:46:33.000 --> 02:46:37.879
throw it in the chat and I'll
check back. And good to see you

2097
02:46:37.959 --> 02:46:43.399
man. Allen Paramari, Thank you
very much. From a Kurdish American.

2098
02:46:43.680 --> 02:46:48.000
Did you ever work with Kurtishsoft?
What did you think of them? Thank

2099
02:46:48.040 --> 02:46:54.280
you for your service and long live, long live Kurdistan and America. No

2100
02:46:54.440 --> 02:47:01.799
experience. Adam White, thank you
very much much, buddy, great senior,

2101
02:47:01.120 --> 02:47:07.559
last week. Great show. Gentlemen, Brad any chance you opened for

2102
02:47:07.680 --> 02:47:11.959
President Bush at Fort Hood in two
thousand and five, Please permit the random

2103
02:47:11.079 --> 02:47:15.799
question. But if so, I
was a young private in your audience,

2104
02:47:15.840 --> 02:47:22.120
can you confirm it not? No, I did not, Alejandro, Thank

2105
02:47:22.120 --> 02:47:24.920
you very much, buddy, not
a question. Thank you for writing look

2106
02:47:26.000 --> 02:47:31.120
after Me that and Falling to Pieces
by Faith no More. Some songs just

2107
02:47:31.239 --> 02:47:33.680
really speak to the heart. Yeah, man, that look after Me was

2108
02:47:35.680 --> 02:47:41.239
I'll talk about that one real quick. That tune was written as a goodbye

2109
02:47:41.559 --> 02:47:45.600
to all the people that I never
got a chance to say goodbye to and

2110
02:47:46.040 --> 02:47:50.879
you know, you guys know the
deal. But when you're deployed and somebody

2111
02:47:50.000 --> 02:47:54.959
is killed, like you're still deployed, and the memorial service and a lot

2112
02:47:54.959 --> 02:48:00.440
of times the funeral and all that
stuff is happening, you're still over sees

2113
02:48:01.319 --> 02:48:05.920
doing your thing. And I feel
like I wanted to write something that was

2114
02:48:07.040 --> 02:48:09.239
just this is my goodbye to all
the people that I never had a chance

2115
02:48:09.280 --> 02:48:15.239
to. So we were in the
studio with Josh Goodwin, who and I

2116
02:48:15.319 --> 02:48:16.920
never completed the thought on him,
but he was a marine. He'd sarved

2117
02:48:16.959 --> 02:48:20.879
four years in the Marine Corps,
so that was his connection to the military.

2118
02:48:20.479 --> 02:48:22.559
When he reached out and said,
hey, I want to produce your

2119
02:48:22.559 --> 02:48:28.120
album anyway, that tune was originally
written not to be an acoustic song,

2120
02:48:28.920 --> 02:48:33.159
and played it. We played it
a couple of times recorded and he goes,

2121
02:48:33.200 --> 02:48:35.520
hey, man, something's not fucking
working and you need to figure it

2122
02:48:35.520 --> 02:48:39.120
out. But I want you to
go in there tomorrow and do this on

2123
02:48:39.159 --> 02:48:43.559
acoustic. And I was like,
okay, no pressure here. You know.

2124
02:48:43.680 --> 02:48:46.559
We finished at like two in the
morning, after slamming however, many

2125
02:48:46.600 --> 02:48:52.600
beers and smoking weed and doing all
kinds of crazy shit. And anyway,

2126
02:48:52.920 --> 02:48:54.799
on the way to the studio,
I got something in my head. I

2127
02:48:54.840 --> 02:48:58.559
was like, don't talk to me
or I'll lose it. You know,

2128
02:48:58.000 --> 02:49:03.079
I need to go go. I
think I've got it, And anyway,

2129
02:49:03.200 --> 02:49:07.040
went in and started playing it.
It was like record and I think I

2130
02:49:07.079 --> 02:49:13.360
recorded that on like a nineteen forty
eight Martin acoustic, which you know,

2131
02:49:13.639 --> 02:49:18.719
priceless kind of guitar. But yeah, super cool song. So we stripped

2132
02:49:18.719 --> 02:49:22.639
it totally down and sometimes when we
play it live, usually we'll pull out

2133
02:49:22.680 --> 02:49:26.319
stools, get a little bit soft, everybody up, We're gonna have a

2134
02:49:26.360 --> 02:49:28.760
toast for our friends, and we'll
talk about it a little bit. And

2135
02:49:28.440 --> 02:49:31.559
other times we'll play it the original
way, which is kind of like heavy

2136
02:49:31.639 --> 02:49:35.040
and everything else. But it's just
kind of a fun song, yea,

2137
02:49:35.639 --> 02:49:39.959
even though it's a heavy subject.
Yeah, I've had buddies that are like,

2138
02:49:39.040 --> 02:49:43.319
man, I fucking I was in
the gym and was on the treadmill

2139
02:49:43.360 --> 02:49:48.559
and this song came on. I
was like tearing up. It's a heavy

2140
02:49:48.600 --> 02:49:50.920
tune. Man Fred did a really
good job of writing the lyrics for it.

2141
02:49:50.959 --> 02:49:56.000
I mean, amazing job writing the
lyrics for it. So when you

2142
02:49:56.559 --> 02:50:01.440
like when you come up with the
a song like that, because like you

2143
02:50:01.479 --> 02:50:07.280
said earlier, like songwrite writing is
a complicated process. But when you were

2144
02:50:07.399 --> 02:50:11.040
playing the music for that or when
you're creating that, did you did you

2145
02:50:11.120 --> 02:50:13.559
know what that song was about?
And then you conveyed that to him?

2146
02:50:13.840 --> 02:50:18.360
Or it's got a vibe Like for
me, music has a vibe and it

2147
02:50:18.360 --> 02:50:20.920
could be heavy, it could be
happy. Like you listen to Van Haleman,

2148
02:50:20.959 --> 02:50:24.680
it's like, dude, let's break
out some six packs and yeah,

2149
02:50:24.719 --> 02:50:30.079
go troll skank and you know,
like that's what it's about, and it

2150
02:50:30.200 --> 02:50:33.159
just has a vibe. So it's
very much good time party. And I've

2151
02:50:33.159 --> 02:50:37.280
always been attracted to the stuff like
Alice in Chains where it's like, man,

2152
02:50:37.440 --> 02:50:41.680
this shit's got a dark side to
it and there's something there and you

2153
02:50:41.719 --> 02:50:46.959
know, there's also something very therapeutic
in about getting that out, you know.

2154
02:50:46.280 --> 02:50:52.680
Yeah, do do you know if
we have anything on Patreon? Nothing?

2155
02:50:52.760 --> 02:51:00.559
Okay? So again uh Silence and
Light music dot com. Buy the

2156
02:51:00.600 --> 02:51:03.600
CD links are down in the description
by the CD, check them out by

2157
02:51:03.639 --> 02:51:07.280
the swag. It all goes to
a good cause and also helps them pay

2158
02:51:07.280 --> 02:51:11.159
for their music and keep it all, you know, keeps it all going

2159
02:51:11.120 --> 02:51:18.479
like you said, like it's it's
not a cheap endeavor, uh And nope,

2160
02:51:20.399 --> 02:51:22.879
Brad, But what else have you
got for us? Who we are

2161
02:51:22.040 --> 02:51:26.319
at the end of the show here
we are, so tell me about how

2162
02:51:26.559 --> 02:51:33.920
when you joined the military. We
can go start over. Yeah from well

2163
02:51:33.959 --> 02:51:41.319
we did that on novel or Brook. Appreciate you guys having me in and

2164
02:51:41.399 --> 02:51:45.360
the outlet and everything else, and
you know, anything I can do to

2165
02:51:45.399 --> 02:51:48.799
help. We appreciate you coming in
and anything we gotta do help. And

2166
02:51:48.879 --> 02:51:54.000
we will definitely not only clip the
piece of out going to war uh in

2167
02:51:54.319 --> 02:51:58.040
the Philippines, but we'll also clip
like some of the music piece so that

2168
02:51:58.120 --> 02:52:01.319
it gets it does get you know, we want you so it gets its

2169
02:52:01.319 --> 02:52:05.280
own standout, like we want you
know, we'll definitely clip you out of

2170
02:52:05.319 --> 02:52:13.600
context to make it the worst possible. Yeah, no, yeah no,

2171
02:52:13.719 --> 02:52:16.559
But we deeply appreciate you coming in
because you know, it's it's like you

2172
02:52:16.600 --> 02:52:20.520
say, like we've talked, you
know, about log a issue, We've

2173
02:52:20.520 --> 02:52:26.319
talked about other stuff and like you
say, it's not it's not necessarily you

2174
02:52:26.360 --> 02:52:28.479
want to talk about this stuff all
the time. Sure, and so we

2175
02:52:28.520 --> 02:52:33.799
appreciate you taking the time to do
that. And also, I mean we

2176
02:52:33.840 --> 02:52:37.440
wish you guys the best of luck
with the music. I mean it's great

2177
02:52:37.520 --> 02:52:43.319
music. It's you know, it's
great music. Uh So everybody listen or

2178
02:52:45.239 --> 02:52:52.079
you're you're dead. It's interesting.
We've we've like fought tooth and nail and

2179
02:52:54.000 --> 02:53:01.920
you know the deal. But like
people in certain industries definitely aren't friendly or

2180
02:53:01.959 --> 02:53:07.399
helpful, and so for us,
it's like it's an uphill battle. We

2181
02:53:07.479 --> 02:53:13.680
do better than probably ninety eight percent
of actual music that's being released. Still

2182
02:53:13.719 --> 02:53:18.000
some tea brad, who is it
that hates the truth? Come on,

2183
02:53:18.319 --> 02:53:22.040
yeah, you know. But it's
one of those things where it's like we

2184
02:53:22.399 --> 02:53:26.959
brought in a publicist this last go
round, and she was like, first

2185
02:53:26.959 --> 02:53:31.079
of all publicists like won't take you
on if they don't believe in your story.

2186
02:53:31.799 --> 02:53:37.239
And we brought in a publicist.
I got to compete out of twelve

2187
02:53:37.440 --> 02:53:43.639
like a list publicist. I got
to compete like eight of them because they

2188
02:53:43.639 --> 02:53:46.000
were all like, we're interested,
we do too much whatever they all wanted.

2189
02:53:46.159 --> 02:53:48.360
Yes, I got ties with here, blah blah blah blah blah.

2190
02:53:50.000 --> 02:53:54.159
Nobody picks up on anything. Nobody
picked up on a single story, you

2191
02:53:54.200 --> 02:53:56.520
know, and you're just like,
well, thanks for the help, you

2192
02:53:56.520 --> 02:54:00.920
know. Yeah, like you're gonna
write about Corey Taylor and slip nod and

2193
02:54:01.280 --> 02:54:05.879
you know, the same clickbait on
every you know. So we've we've done

2194
02:54:05.879 --> 02:54:09.200
this ourselves. We built a brand. You go to Google, We're all

2195
02:54:09.239 --> 02:54:13.360
over everything there. You know,
it's taken a lot of years and a

2196
02:54:13.399 --> 02:54:16.520
lot of hard work. So I
know we've talked about it a couple of

2197
02:54:16.559 --> 02:54:18.639
times, but like, no ship, where can people go to find you?

2198
02:54:20.200 --> 02:54:24.639
Instagram, Spotify, Instagram, Silence
and Light Official Brad Thomas Official.

2199
02:54:24.079 --> 02:54:26.719
If you google Silence and Light,
we're going to pop up there. I

2200
02:54:26.719 --> 02:54:30.760
think our music pops up there.
If you type it in YouTube, you're

2201
02:54:30.760 --> 02:54:33.680
gonna find it. If you type
it on Apple Music, Spotify, any

2202
02:54:33.680 --> 02:54:37.600
of that, you're gonna find it. Google Play, Amazon Music. We're

2203
02:54:37.639 --> 02:54:41.680
everywhere there. So all you have
to do is google it or you know,

2204
02:54:41.399 --> 02:54:48.840
look where you normally get music.
Okay, so we're going to do,

2205
02:54:48.600 --> 02:54:54.040
uh, Silence and Light hate Republicans, Clip silence Lights hate Democrats.

2206
02:54:54.079 --> 02:54:58.840
You can clip both of those.
It'll create, it'll create, it'll kind

2207
02:54:58.840 --> 02:55:05.879
of buzz. You'll get the hate
clicks and the people don't like, yeah,

2208
02:55:05.120 --> 02:55:09.280
I'm not I'm not gonna even go
over there. Yeah. So if

2209
02:55:09.280 --> 02:55:13.000
you clip both of those, no, but you know sience light bites,

2210
02:55:13.040 --> 02:55:18.079
the heads off live bats in concerts, Yeah, clip that. Yeah you

2211
02:55:18.479 --> 02:55:22.079
need the uh, you need the
controversy. The days, I guess it's

2212
02:55:22.120 --> 02:55:24.879
insane, man. You would just
think it's like it's a great story.

2213
02:55:24.040 --> 02:55:26.680
These dudes are like, we're going
out of pocket on this. Yeah,

2214
02:55:26.680 --> 02:55:31.280
you know this isn't This is me
throwing thirty five g's of my personal money

2215
02:55:31.280 --> 02:55:37.479
into something just to release an album
and recouping a quarter of that, you

2216
02:55:37.520 --> 02:55:41.000
know, from royalties and merchandise and
stuff like that, and then doing T

2217
02:55:41.120 --> 02:55:48.079
shirt collaborations and all that kind of
shit. They can find your tour schedule

2218
02:55:48.079 --> 02:55:50.959
on your website. Yeah, yeah, shows and everything else. But social

2219
02:55:50.959 --> 02:55:54.719
media is the best place, and
we do some on Facebook. It's just

2220
02:55:54.760 --> 02:56:00.479
like such a hassle. And Instagram. It's like I can pose the video

2221
02:56:00.479 --> 02:56:03.239
on there and I've got like fifty
five thousand views, and then I go

2222
02:56:03.360 --> 02:56:05.840
to Facebook and it's just like you
know, yeah, you got it.

2223
02:56:05.920 --> 02:56:11.000
Yeah, I know what you're talking
about. So aside from uh, the

2224
02:56:11.120 --> 02:56:16.760
music silence, like is there anything
else that you're working on personally that you

2225
02:56:16.799 --> 02:56:24.079
want to plug promoter talk about Probably
too early to do the promotion thing.

2226
02:56:24.079 --> 02:56:28.440
It might be something that go on, Brad next come on. What kind

2227
02:56:28.440 --> 02:56:31.920
of ties into the thing I was
talking about, like trying to figure out

2228
02:56:31.920 --> 02:56:33.920
this podcast? Yeah thing, And
I don't want to be a podcast like

2229
02:56:33.959 --> 02:56:37.760
I just I don't necessarily have the
baby. We're all here, we're all

2230
02:56:37.799 --> 02:56:41.799
here. You're in the trust,
you're in the trust trade. Yeah,

2231
02:56:41.799 --> 02:56:45.719
we're in the nest with the baby
birds with the I mean, what if

2232
02:56:45.719 --> 02:56:50.799
she's wearing you know, Eddy Whitey's
what what color is it? What?

2233
02:56:50.799 --> 02:56:54.040
What color is? We don't know? We want to ask. Yeah.

2234
02:56:54.159 --> 02:57:01.760
I I'm a part of a documentary
that Ridley Scott's doing that'll come out next

2235
02:57:01.799 --> 02:57:07.600
year. I think it's gonna be
a mat relex thing, like a four

2236
02:57:07.680 --> 02:57:13.559
part five part thing. Cool.
It's about Mogadishu. And I was able

2237
02:57:13.600 --> 02:57:16.159
to kind of insert some creative stuff
into that, like I'm not a part

2238
02:57:16.200 --> 02:57:20.200
of not a producer or anything else, but kind of working with the producer,

2239
02:57:20.399 --> 02:57:22.239
like, hey, have you thought
about this aspect? Have you thought

2240
02:57:22.239 --> 02:57:26.680
about uh, you know, some
of these types of things and connected him

2241
02:57:26.719 --> 02:57:31.200
with certain people, and I was
hoping from the beginning that it wouldn't be

2242
02:57:31.760 --> 02:57:37.239
like the same people that have been
on everything else, and it's not.

2243
02:57:37.719 --> 02:57:41.600
So that should be a pretty interesting
thing, but it's not ready for you

2244
02:57:41.600 --> 02:57:48.440
know, it's it's happening. It's
moving forward. But Brad, if if

2245
02:57:48.479 --> 02:57:52.760
you want to like continue your project
with the podcast, we'd be like happy

2246
02:57:52.760 --> 02:57:58.559
to support you. But if not, like we'll be happy to support you

2247
02:57:58.120 --> 02:58:05.680
way on your studio space with Onion
d. Yeah. So there's a dude

2248
02:58:05.399 --> 02:58:09.920
that I'm buddies with John Waters and
you can look him up on social media,

2249
02:58:09.959 --> 02:58:15.559
but he's got the Afterburn podcast and
he's a former like f sixteen part

2250
02:58:15.600 --> 02:58:20.840
of it. He's got a huge
following. So he was like, I

2251
02:58:20.920 --> 02:58:24.120
want to do something with you,
and that's kind of where this thing started.

2252
02:58:24.200 --> 02:58:26.879
And then I started talking with the
Ranger buddy and we kind of started

2253
02:58:26.879 --> 02:58:30.399
to sort things out, and the
plan was we would launch it off of

2254
02:58:30.479 --> 02:58:35.639
his just as like here's an initial
like three parts, now go get it

2255
02:58:35.760 --> 02:58:37.719
here. It's his own thing,
and it would have seen a couple hundred

2256
02:58:37.760 --> 02:58:43.239
thousand people like that. Yeah,
you know, so there was also talk

2257
02:58:43.319 --> 02:58:48.079
about, you know, maybe a
company that makes coffee would be, you

2258
02:58:48.079 --> 02:58:50.719
know, interested in helping out.
I was like, I don't want them

2259
02:58:50.920 --> 02:58:54.520
having anything to do with this.
Yeah, so I don't want anybody telling

2260
02:58:54.559 --> 02:58:58.840
me what creatively or any of that
stuff. That's kind of how I got

2261
02:58:58.840 --> 02:59:03.559
to the point of it being podcast. I would love to do it,

2262
02:59:03.760 --> 02:59:05.559
yeah, I mean I really would. And and the thought that I had

2263
02:59:05.600 --> 02:59:11.920
on it was that this would be
like a serial, so this Mogadishu thing

2264
02:59:11.959 --> 02:59:15.280
would be one part. But then
like I got all kinds of people that

2265
02:59:15.319 --> 02:59:16.879
I'm friends with that we're in nine
to eleven, Right, what kind of

2266
02:59:16.920 --> 02:59:20.760
stories about nine to eleven? Can
we hear? Not the there I was

2267
02:59:20.799 --> 02:59:24.639
the buildings were falling, but you
know, all the behind the scenes stuff,

2268
02:59:26.280 --> 02:59:28.959
and we could do one about Panama, We could do one about you

2269
02:59:28.000 --> 02:59:31.719
know, but you could start tapping
into once you become a thing, you

2270
02:59:31.719 --> 02:59:35.879
could start tapping in and doing other
stuff. That was that was my idea

2271
02:59:35.959 --> 02:59:39.600
for it. And you know,
so somebody was like, dude, you

2272
02:59:39.639 --> 02:59:43.079
need to pitch it to you know, these people, and it was like

2273
02:59:43.079 --> 02:59:46.280
like I don't know, no,
No, I hope, I hope you'll

2274
02:59:46.319 --> 02:59:48.959
do it. Yeah, only got
so much time you know, well,

2275
02:59:48.959 --> 02:59:52.399
if there's any way we can support
you, even if even if, even

2276
02:59:52.440 --> 02:59:56.280
if you know you do it,
or another podcast platform, because a lot

2277
02:59:56.319 --> 03:00:00.799
of those, you know, the
there are a lot a podcast out there

2278
03:00:00.799 --> 03:00:03.760
that have a huge platform, much
bigger than ours, and we'll so we'll

2279
03:00:03.760 --> 03:00:07.000
plug you no matter where you launch
it, and we're happy to help.

2280
03:00:07.319 --> 03:00:11.360
Yeah. Cool. Well, like
I said, if it does, it

2281
03:00:11.360 --> 03:00:16.600
would basically be you know, at
the end of twenty twenty four probably yeah,

2282
03:00:16.600 --> 03:00:18.639
And you know, I think there
was a lot of momentum and just

2283
03:00:18.719 --> 03:00:24.920
kind of emotions and stuff like that
that was gearing up towards the thirtieth sure,

2284
03:00:24.239 --> 03:00:26.639
you know, and we started talking
about it and it was like the

2285
03:00:26.719 --> 03:00:31.040
timing would be great, there's gonna
be other stories kind of piggyback off that

2286
03:00:31.159 --> 03:00:35.399
stuff. And now it's like,
I don't know, but I would be

2287
03:00:35.440 --> 03:00:39.719
interested in doing it. It's just
you know, no, I hope you

2288
03:00:39.799 --> 03:00:43.520
will. Yeah, me too.
I don't see Clayton's I don't think Clayton

2289
03:00:43.520 --> 03:00:48.239
never said anything. So final thoughts, Brad, Dave, No, I'm

2290
03:00:48.719 --> 03:00:54.799
good, I'm good. Okay,
We'll see you guys on Friday with Pete

2291
03:00:54.879 --> 03:01:01.399
Labor and that's it. That's the
show yep. Thanks Averbady, Thanks be

2292
03:01:01.440 --> 03:01:03.040
good. We'll see you guys next
time.