WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:08.400 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. Being Frank. 2 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:15.439 We're the only way to be is Frank. Hello, and welcome to Being 3 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:19.839 Frank. We're the only way to be is of course, Frank. I'm 4 00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:23.199 your host, Frank Lebrono, and we'd like to thank you for joining us 5 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:28.800 here on the Intelligent Conversation podcast. We know that your time is valuable and 6 00:00:28.920 --> 00:00:33.840 competition is fierce, but we'd like to think of ourselves as an alternative to 7 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:38.320 all that noise, so we appreciate you sharing some of your day with Being 8 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:42.399 Frank. You know we're streamed from Hudson River Radio dot com. That's our 9 00:00:42.439 --> 00:00:46.799 home base where the mailman, mister Neil Richter as our engineer because he always 10 00:00:46.840 --> 00:00:51.079 delivers. 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It's certainly the intelligent thing to do. Tonight, we are 20 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:38.439 recording live on the twenty fourth of March, so you'll be able to hear 21 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:42.439 us either late in the day the twenty fourth, or certainly anytime on the 22 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:48.799 twenty fifth. Our guest has been a frequent contributor to Being Frank, bringing 23 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:53.359 us his unique brand of intelligent talk to share with us. Doctor Paul Levinson 24 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:57.840 is a colleague at Fordham University, where he's a media arts professor and often 25 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:04.400 quoted expert on the First Amendment. It he's so much more risking the predictable. 26 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:07.639 I will dare say that he is the renaissance man. He's a blogger, 27 00:02:07.639 --> 00:02:13.280 a musician, composer, reviewer, and author to literally just name a 28 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:19.319 few. His science fiction books a multi award winning and his nonfiction books on 29 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:24.159 politics and media have been translated into fifteen languages. He has been quoted on 30 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:30.680 virtually every major TV news channel in his latest work, he combines his love 31 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:35.400 of music, the Beatles, and science fiction in its real life, a 32 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:39.199 radio play that presents a day in the life of an alternative universe, a 33 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:44.919 well known DJ, and of course the Beatles. Without further ado here to 34 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:47.960 explain it all as my friend and colleague, doctor Paul Levitts. And Paul, 35 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:51.879 thank you once again for joining us. Not some fun tonight, Arwick. 36 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:53.960 Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It's always great being on the 37 00:02:54.000 --> 00:03:00.840 alternative, but tonight it's going to be especially good. We're pretty a pretty 38 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:06.719 alternative. I think that that's that, Paul, So why not anyway, 39 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:10.240 So let's begin before we actually get into the play. To tell excuse me, 40 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:14.719 radio play, let's talk a little bit about you know, your background, 41 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:16.879 and I mentioned and with a little bit of sense of humor, but 42 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:20.800 it's the truth. You really do so many things, and one of the 43 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:25.080 things is this radio play, amongst many others. But it's coming. If 44 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:30.560 you look certainly at your page, your personal Facebook page, etc. You 45 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:34.680 have a love of music and the Beatles in particular. What is it that 46 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:38.719 that grabs you grabbed you from the beginning as a young man with the Beatles 47 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:43.479 and continues to this very day. You obviously have a fascination with them. 48 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:49.120 Where does it come from. Well, the first thing that I ever did, 49 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:54.319 even partially professionally, was music. That was before I started writing science 50 00:03:54.360 --> 00:04:02.759 fiction, before I began studying media history, writing about Marsha mclohan and I 51 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:09.840 way back in nineteen fifty eight, when I was just in sixth grade, 52 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:17.120 I created a group, an a cappella group called Little Levy and the Emeralds. 53 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:19.759 And it had nothing to do with being Irish. I just, I 54 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:24.240 don't know. I thought Emeralds was a good idea for a group name because 55 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:28.560 the Diamonds were a big hit. So even before the Beatles, I was 56 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:32.879 very very much into music. By the time we get into the nineteen sixties, 57 00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:38.720 I had left Little Levy in the Emeralds. I broke maybe like one 58 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:44.680 person's heart, you know, my mother's, you know. And but at 59 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:48.879 that point I was part of a folk rock group that I created. Initially 60 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:54.720 it was called the Transits, and then it was called the New Outlook. 61 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:59.720 And you know, we were singing in subway stations. We weren't busking. 62 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:01.959 No they ever offered us any money. I don't know what one of the 63 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:06.519 places we would sing in, by the way, was Poe Park, which 64 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:15.160 takes a little bit of a place in the real life radio play that I'll 65 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:19.000 tell you about a little later. But anyway, when the Beatles broke in 66 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:24.120 in, you know, here in the United States, and it was a 67 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:28.480 really wild juxtaposition. It was really around the same time that John F. 68 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:33.199 Kennedy was assassinated, so you know, that ripped the world apart, and 69 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:39.680 you know, the Beatles came along and I wouldn't say they sewed everything back 70 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:46.759 together again, but they also did make us feel much better. And I 71 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:51.759 realized the first time I heard any of their music, which believe it or 72 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:56.959 not, was actually before the At Sullivan Show. They were on the Jack 73 00:05:57.079 --> 00:06:00.759 Parr you know show he originally did the Tonight Show, and I remember being 74 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:03.199 struck by them. And by the time you know, they got to Ed 75 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:06.879 Sullivan, I want to hold Jahan was playing well over the place, and 76 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:14.079 it was crystal clear to me and the other people in my group, the 77 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:17.560 Transits then called the New Outlook. It was crystal clear to all of us 78 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:25.680 that this was something incredibly new in music, that yeah, it was rock 79 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:29.839 and roll, but it was much more than rock and roll, and you 80 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:34.279 know, part of it sounded like the Everly Brothers, part of it sounded 81 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:40.639 like the Kingston Trio. You know, they sounded a little bit like everything, 82 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:46.399 but also in a way sounding like nothing we had ever heard before. 83 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:51.959 And at that moment I knew that the world had changed, the world of 84 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:58.560 music had changed, and the world of everything else had changed in a very 85 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:01.759 real sense, that as the beginning of the nineteen sixties. You know, 86 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:06.160 we're talking about the end of nineteen sixty three, the beginning of nineteen sixty 87 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:12.120 four, that's when the sixties began, not in nineteen sixty or sixty one. 88 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:15.720 Well, you know, you and I are contemporaries, basically, Paul, 89 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.639 so certainly I certainly remember that time. I don't remember the Jack part 90 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:25.839 show so interesting. I certainly remember the Ed Sullivan appearances, and I remember 91 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:30.040 seeing them live because they were creating such a stir. But you and I 92 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:32.920 realized, and I think it might be important for some of our audience, 93 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:39.439 particularly our younger members, if we have them. Certainly, I don't know 94 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:45.079 that's necessarily our demographic. Iungus, remember, is ninety seven years old. 95 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:53.360 I think that just might be sad, But true, But I think what 96 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:58.000 I'd like to hit upon is the fact that it was so much more affected, 97 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:01.240 so much more than music. I mean, it was a cultural revolution 98 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:03.560 from the way we wore our hair, so the way we dressed. I 99 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:09.360 remember beetle boots. If you didn't have a pair of beetle boots, i 100 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:15.120 e. Those kind of low slung semi boots that they wore, weren't you 101 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:18.759 weren't all that hip. So it really was very much a revolution, as 102 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:24.000 you mentioned, beyond just the music, it really affected our culture. They 103 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:26.079 talked to that a little bit, if you would. Yeah, I just 104 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:30.319 want to say musically, you know, if you think about the Four Seasons, 105 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:35.399 the Beach Boys, the Cherrells, there were groups that were almost there, 106 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:39.720 and in fact, the Beach Boys pretty much caught up with the Beatles, 107 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:43.440 but the Beatles were the ones that made the breakthrough. And yeah, 108 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:48.360 their hair was a very important part of that. And you know, now, 109 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:50.679 of course I'm happy I have any hair, but back then I had 110 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:56.399 a lot of hair, and in late nineteen fifties, early nineteen sixties I 111 00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:01.120 used to comb my hair. The expression in the Bronx was like a rock, 112 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:05.759 not like a rock in you know, in the ground like a rock. 113 00:09:05.799 --> 00:09:09.399 I don't know what it was short for, but you know it's like 114 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:13.919 slick back hair, you know, sort of Elvis hair, sort of Pampa 115 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:16.879 do hair, believe it or not, That's the way I combed my hair 116 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:22.759 like in nineteen sixty nineteen sixty one. But pretty much as soon as I 117 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:26.759 and my friends saw the Beatles, and even more importantly, when we saw 118 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:33.000 what the girls around us really loved, we just let our hair grow, 119 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:37.919 you know, pretty long. And I remember, this is all the sounds 120 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:41.639 ridiculous. I'd been going to the same barber since I was I don't know, 121 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:43.960 eight years old when my father took me to this barber, and I 122 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:48.320 think I broke his heart because I went there, you know, after the 123 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:50.120 Beatles, and I try to tell him, look, I let my hair 124 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:52.639 grow along. I want like a little trim and you know, but I 125 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:58.039 want it long, and he was incapable of giving me a little trim, 126 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:01.639 so he basically scalped me. And that was the little last time I saw 127 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:05.639 him. And finally my hair grew long. And actually this is a video, 128 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:11.799 but I have a mustache today that I grew after Sergeant Pepper and the 129 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:18.600 Beatles debuted with their mustaches, So that's how much they influenced me. The 130 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:22.320 other thing is I'm the kind of person I'm always like singing harmony. Anytime 131 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:26.840 I hear a song, I've just been in a harmony part. There was, 132 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.759 and is to this very day, nothing more satisfying to me than putting 133 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:37.399 in a harmony to a Beatles song, in part because, in addition to 134 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:43.360 their music, their voices just blended together so beautifully. You think about a 135 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:46.519 song like Nowhere Man, even an earlier song like this Boy, it's such 136 00:10:46.559 --> 00:10:52.639 a rich, satisfying thing to hear them sing. I want to search someone 137 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:56.159 talking about the comfort of hearing the Beatles harmony, and I think that's a 138 00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:01.360 good word for it. And that's something that with me while these years. 139 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:05.039 I have to admit, to make a statement about a fashion statement, I 140 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:11.000 did have a neighborw jacket because the Beatles had neighbor jackets. I couldmit that 141 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:15.840 now. No, I still don't have it any longer, But at one 142 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.600 time, yes, it had. It really did. That had that kind 143 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:22.960 of influence. I think. Another thing Paul Worth mentioning too, was the 144 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.720 image of the Beatles at that time was quote unquote wholesome where coming up at 145 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:35.039 around approximately the same time the Rolling Stones and Mick Jagger would would perform in 146 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:39.440 a T shirt or sometimes a semi jacket, but certainly not that that dressed 147 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:45.120 up look that the Beatles had, that buttoned down image. They had that 148 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.840 kind of clean cut image that I think they were a little resistive of. 149 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:52.960 Certainly at one point they became very much so. But in the beginning the 150 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:58.039 Fab four they were a bunch of nice young men from Liverpool, so that 151 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:01.759 image was cultivated to a degree, but they eventually did rebel about that. 152 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:07.320 So some of your thoughts on their evolution as both musicians and people, Well, 153 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:13.879 you've touched on what the essential difference between the Beatles and just about every 154 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:18.159 other rock and roll group or rock group in history is, and that difference 155 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:26.679 is that the Beatles constantly evolved. They constantly changed not only the way they 156 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:31.600 looked, but the music that they made, the style of the music. 157 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:35.320 And this was a very courageous thing to do because the way things work in 158 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.279 the music industry is you have a hit record, and you know, the 159 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.679 record company says, go in and make another record that sounds pretty much like 160 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:48.639 the hit record because we don't want to take a chance on anything different. 161 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.039 Let's just keep going with the same stuff. So if you think about, 162 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:56.440 you know, you know, a group like the Chiffons, you know, 163 00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:01.360 he's so fine, sweet talking guy. They a series of records. They 164 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:07.120 were all number one records, and they all sounded exactly the same the Beatles, 165 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:11.360 and I attribute this, you know, I don't know how much Ringo 166 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:16.399 contributed to this, but I attribute this most to John Lennon and Paul McCartney 167 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:20.240 and to some extent George Harrison. When they had a hit record and then 168 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:26.799 they came back into the studio, they deliberately avoided sounding too much like that 169 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:31.759 hit record. And the difference between one album and another was enormous. And 170 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:37.039 I remember, you know, thinking when Rubbist Soul came out, which is 171 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:43.080 to this day tied with Revolver for my all time favorite album. But Rubbert 172 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:48.080 Soul was so different from the albums in which She Loves You was on, 173 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:54.960 you know, even great songs like yes It Is you Know, which is 174 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:58.519 a halfway between I Want to Hold Your Hand and the songs on Rubbert Soul. 175 00:14:00.279 --> 00:14:03.720 But the Rubbist Soul was just something that you you could hear it was 176 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:07.320 the Beatles, but it almost could have been a different group. And then 177 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:13.519 they took off with Revolver, going into the psychedelic, you know, realm 178 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:20.320 and you know, playing with guitar sounds and instruments, then Sergeant Pepper and 179 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.919 it just got better and better and better. And you know, if you 180 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:28.480 want to see the Beatles near the end of their career, of course, 181 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:33.120 there's Peter Jackson's wonderful documentary that you know, came on the year late last 182 00:14:33.159 --> 00:14:39.200 year in November twenty twenty one. Um, but you know, you see 183 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:41.519 how they work there, and you see the chances that they took, and 184 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:50.480 you see the different uh styles that they would even perform in, even in 185 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:56.360 one group of songs or or one album. So you know, there's uh, 186 00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:00.720 there's there's a very big difference. If if you think of, you 187 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:07.039 know, a basic Beatles song like um, I Want to hold your Hand, 188 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.000 and you listen to that, and then you listen to here, there 189 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:16.559 and everywhere, those two songs are from two different ears, and you know, 190 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:20.600 that's amazing in itself. But by the time we get to what Peter 191 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:28.840 Jackson put on his in his documentary, you listen to the Beatles performing up 192 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:35.200 there, and every song sounds completely different. And that is, more than 193 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:39.679 anything else, I think what kept the Beatles so vibrant, you know, 194 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:50.639 and so alive, and and that's why I remember in nineteen seventy six, 195 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.279 I was having a conversation with Neil Postman, who was a professor at New 196 00:15:54.360 --> 00:16:00.879 York University. In fact, he became my PhD mentor, And he was 197 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:10.360 talking about popular culture that lasts a long time and popular culture that evaporates like 198 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:14.000 overnight. And I said to him, well, if you wanted an example 199 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:18.000 of popular culture that's gonna last forever, it's the Beatles. And he said 200 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.679 really. I said yeah, really, And he said, well, but 201 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:23.519 you know, a lot of people we don't really listen that much to Little 202 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:27.879 Richard anymore, you know, So we don't even listen that much to the 203 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:32.960 Supremes anymore. So the Postman knew something about music. And I said, 204 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:37.440 yeah, that's right. But the Beatles are different. The Beatles are here 205 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:41.399 forever. And you know, I've been quoted as saying that I think the 206 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:48.159 Beatles are now literally in the same league with Shakespeare, and a thousand years 207 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.240 from now, we're going to be singing and loving Beatles, songs, Beethoven, 208 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:59.080 Mozart, you know, composers, musicians from hundreds of years ago that 209 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:03.799 certainly remain in popular memory. And I agree with you, and you know 210 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.200 I was thinking when you said hold your hand. Immediately my mind went from 211 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.559 there to also a day in the life. In terms of contrast of music, 212 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.640 my God, from something very simple, a simple kind of everybody could 213 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:21.119 come to a much more complex both lyrically and musically. A day in the 214 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.559 life. It's just extraordinary contrast. We might give you a little allegory to 215 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:27.519 how important the Beatles were in my life, and I'll give a shout out 216 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:32.759 to a good childhood friend who's also a composer and musician, Jerry Patenti, 217 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:37.000 who lived down the street from me on Stillwell Avenue in Fort Lee, New 218 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:41.799 Jersey, not far from the George Washington Bridge, and we would eagerly anticipate 219 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:48.480 the release of every new album. And he had a nice victrola real excuse 220 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:51.599 me record player in his basement, and as soon as he got it, 221 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:55.759 we would rush downstairs immediately to listen to it over and over again, to 222 00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:59.559 the point where eventually we might be able to sing a few of the songs 223 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:06.240 together, so certainly people of our era, that's I think. Any any 224 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:12.079 time we mentioned the Beatles, it brings mostly certainly fond memories for all of 225 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:17.559 us because their music was so broad. And you mentioned what could be certainly 226 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:22.640 amongst the greatest songwriting duos of all time, McCartney Lennon, What was the 227 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:26.039 secret to their success? Different people, often great friends, They loved one 228 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:32.079 another, but also had some Titanic riffs in their life of not speaking to 229 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:37.240 one another. It seems to be par for the creative process, where they 230 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:40.359 don't always see to eye to eye, but yet at the same time the 231 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:45.440 results of their creations are extraordinary. How did that happen? Why did that 232 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.319 happen? In your mind? Well, it's very interesting Lennon and McCartney. 233 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.599 First, let me say that a lot of what we think are Lennon and 234 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:57.359 McCartney's songs were written pretty much by one of them and the other just put 235 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:03.160 in a couple of lives or a couple of words. The early Beatles songs 236 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:07.880 were written by both of them, but as they evolved, they increasingly began 237 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:12.519 writing their own songs. So and sometimes you even you mentioned a day in 238 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:18.839 the life. You can hear two songs. There's the main thing of day 239 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:21.799 in life. I read the news today, oh boy. But then there's 240 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:26.839 a god Mahad. So that was written totally by McCartney. So they even 241 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.400 began doing that. But the reason why they worked so well together as certainly 242 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:36.799 as musicians in the studio, but also as songwriters, and the reason why 243 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:41.440 their harmonies were so tight is on the one hand, they both came from 244 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:45.559 Liverpool. They came from the same culture, they went up to the same 245 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:51.400 schools. You know, in that sense they shared a profound unity of culture 246 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:55.440 because you know, Liverpool is a much smaller city than New York City. 247 00:19:55.640 --> 00:20:00.799 Two kids can grow up in New York City and completely different color cultures in 248 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:07.559 Liverpool. That's much harder to do. But even though they had that connection, 249 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:15.440 they also were very different people. And you know, Lennin was much 250 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:22.440 more sarcastic, He had a harsh side to him. He had a more 251 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:29.680 cynical side to him, and that is reflected in his music. McCartney was 252 00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:33.440 much more of a traditional songwriter. He was at his best friend, he 253 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:38.559 was writing songs about love. I mean, he wrote some leninesque songs also 254 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:45.920 like Helter Skelter, but basically he was the softer side of that relationship. 255 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:51.240 And the two, even though they worked together, were very much in competition. 256 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:53.319 Who could come up with the better lyric, who could come up with 257 00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.279 the better song, who could come up with a better record. They used 258 00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:03.680 to almost come to blows over who would have the A side and who would 259 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:10.160 have the B side? And you know, sometimes EMI and Capitol made some 260 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:15.400 smart decisions. For example, how can you choose between rain John Lennon's song 261 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:21.640 in the Rain and paperback writer Paul McCartney's song I can't say which one is 262 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.759 better? They're both fabulous, and so em I said, hey, you 263 00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:26.880 know what, We'll make them both the A side. So there was such 264 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.319 a brain group. They had no B sides. There was no such thing 265 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:34.799 as a B side for the Beatles, because even their B sides were great. 266 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:38.839 As a matter of fact, one of the things in the radio play 267 00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:44.440 Yes it is one of my all time favorite Beatles songs was the B side 268 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:48.519 to Ticket to Ride, And by the way, Lennon is pretty much responsible 269 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:51.839 for writing both of those. And you know, as much as I love 270 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.720 Ticket to Ride, that is a great song, you know, an excellent 271 00:21:55.799 --> 00:22:00.079 example of Beatles hard rock and you know again Lenna's like sock Chasm, But 272 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:07.240 yes it is is a real treasure just in terms of like the beauty of 273 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:11.920 the harmony in that song. So as we worked towards its real life radio 274 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.160 play, we have to mention also, as they did in the lead, 275 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:18.599 it combines science fiction, another one of your loves that you do quite a 276 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.759 bit of writing on. It's you, As I've mentioned, your books have 277 00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:26.839 won many awards within the circle of science fiction writing. How does that work 278 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:33.440 into first your your overall writing philosophy, etc. And then towards the radio 279 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:38.079 play, how you combined again love of music, the Beatles, science fiction? 280 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.960 Where did your Where did your love from science fiction? Where's the germ 281 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:47.160 of that? Well? Going back to the nineteen fifties, In addition to 282 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:52.799 listening to and loving rock and roll and listening to Alan Fried live on w 283 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:57.240 I N S. That was one of the two well springs of popular culture 284 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:03.400 that I drew upon and imbibed and grew up on. The other was science 285 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:08.960 fiction and the novels of Isaac Asmo, the Foundation Trilogy, the novels of 286 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:17.640 Robert Heinlein, you know that those to me were as important as the music. 287 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:21.799 And I came to realize pretty soon that, at least for me, 288 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:26.640 they were really both coming from the same part of my soul or brain. 289 00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:32.920 And that was true both in terms of appreciating a great science fiction story and 290 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:37.799 a great song. And it was true in terms of creating a science fiction 291 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:44.039 story or writing and singing a song. And when I eventually began doing scholarship 292 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.759 and you know, studying you know, Marsha mcluin's work and getting to meet 293 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:51.920 him and all that stuff, much to my surprise, I found out that 294 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:57.480 my scholarly work was part of that ball. Some people would probably say ball 295 00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:03.000 of confusion. I say bull of creativity. And to this day, you 296 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.759 know, when I get an idea, first of all, I, you 297 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.079 know, have to think, do I want to write an essay about this 298 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:15.279 or a science fiction story, And there's always music somewhere involved in there. 299 00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:22.599 I'm thinking about the music also, and usually when I'm thinking about the music, 300 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:26.480 it's almost like what music do I want to hear while I'm writing this. 301 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:33.240 But in terms of its real life, the story and the radio play, 302 00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:41.279 I knew that there would be music involved in that story, I got 303 00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:48.160 the idea to write it. P Forntell was a real disc jockey. I 304 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:56.480 remember him one one of my favorite WNWFM affordum student and started the legendary WFUV 305 00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:02.720 radio seventy five years of public radio, roundbreaking, etc. And Pete Forntell 306 00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:04.319 a big part of that as a student, and they went on to in 307 00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.200 my opinion, certainly greatness as dis jussee. I listened to him all the 308 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:14.279 time. Certainly one of my favorites, if not the favorite to disjunctive mind. 309 00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:18.359 But please continue, Paul, Yeah, well mine too. And Pete 310 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:26.599 tragically died in two thousand and twelve, and you know that's been on my 311 00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.519 mind for a while, you know, I. You know, there are 312 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:32.640 certain people that you missed more than others. And it's not that Pete and 313 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:36.359 I were close friends, but even a few times that we saw each other, 314 00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:41.359 it was always an occasion for a great conversation about one thing or another. 315 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:51.200 And a few years ago I saw that there was an announcement made about 316 00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:56.759 an anthology of alternate Beatles stories, and they were the people who are doing 317 00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.880 the anthogs were saying, send us you are the Beatles stories so I didn't 318 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:03.880 really write any story then. I just saw that, but I was busy 319 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:10.920 doing other things. But when I heard that, I said to myself, 320 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:17.920 somehow an alternate Beatles story tied into Pete Forna Tell, because I knew how 321 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.799 much he loved the Beatles. And you know, it was a couple of 322 00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:25.559 years ago. These things almost always come to me when I'm driving someplace. 323 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:30.000 There's something about driving. I remember, I can tell you where I was 324 00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:33.960 drivings on the spring Brook park Way. I was driving to Fordham University to 325 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.400 teach a class, and usually I'm thinking about what I'm gonna be talking about 326 00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:45.400 in the class. But just suddenly popped into my head that what did John 327 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.599 Lennon and Pete Fornatell have in common? They both died way too soon in 328 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:56.400 different ways, and somehow I felt there's an alternate history story here in which 329 00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.759 both Pete Forna Tell and John Lennon, and therefore the Beatles play a role. 330 00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:06.279 And that was really the beginning of it. And the way I write 331 00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:08.559 usually is, you know, you know, later that night or the next 332 00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:11.200 day, when I thought about it again, I just sat down. I 333 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:15.559 pretty much wrote the first draft of the story, and I put in some 334 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:19.160 more details you know, later on, but that's pretty much how the story 335 00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:23.319 was written a couple of years ago. Well, let's let's talk about a 336 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:27.680 little bit about the plot, the theme, How does it develop, set, 337 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:32.279 set the stage for us, what's happening, what's going on in there. 338 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.240 I listened to it. It's it's fun, it's fascinating, and we'll 339 00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:38.759 give we'll give a website later that's that people can listen to it themselves. 340 00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:42.880 But tell us a little bit more about the plot and the theme and and 341 00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:48.839 some of the some of the things we should take from it. Well, 342 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:56.559 Pete loved the Beatles and as many people did, and I know that he 343 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:03.000 was as heartbroken as I was when when John Lennon was assassinated. So I 344 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:12.400 begin the story with Pete playing some music on WFUV, and it soon becomes 345 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:21.279 apparent that Pete is living in a different universe, a different reality from the 346 00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:26.519 one that you and I and our listeners are living in a reality in which 347 00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:30.680 John Lennon was not assassinated. You know, these things are such tragedies, 348 00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:36.519 and it's something about John Lennon's assassination was especially tragic. I mean he's just 349 00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:41.480 walking back to his apartment with Yoko in the Dakota, and I've really never 350 00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:44.240 gotten over with that, by the way it's been. You know, it's 351 00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:51.200 such an upsetting thing. He wasn't even a politician. So I situate Pete 352 00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:56.720 in this world where that didn't happen. So Pete should be happy about that, 353 00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.960 and he is, but because he doesn't know that John was assassinated. 354 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:07.039 But the essence of this story is whenever Pete plays a Beatles song, and 355 00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:12.279 in particular, when he plays a Beatles song that he calls real Life and 356 00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:18.720 that's the name of the Beatles song, he feels this strange in cohte bear, 357 00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:27.200 this dread, this like the cosmos twisted up inside of him, and 358 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.880 that propels him to say, you know what, after his show is over 359 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:37.920 and we find, you know, listening to him, you know, talking 360 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:42.440 about things on his show, that this is an alternate reality that the Beatles 361 00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:47.559 didn't break up in nineteen seventy. The story takes place, it's real life 362 00:29:47.559 --> 00:29:51.680 takes place in nineteen ninety six. The Beatles are still together, you know, 363 00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:56.759 some things are still the same. Dennis Elsis has just interviewed John Lennon 364 00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.880 and you know, in our reality, Dennis Elsi said, you John Lennon 365 00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:03.559 back in the early nineteen seventies, and this reality just took place, you 366 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:10.039 know, twenty five years later. And in this reality, Paul McCartney has, 367 00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:14.240 for the first time in Beatles history written and recorded a song with someone 368 00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:18.400 who's not a Beatle My Brave Face with Elvis Costello. In our reality that 369 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:23.559 actually took place in the late nineteen eighties. So this is like our reality 370 00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:29.359 in many ways, but profoundly different in other ways. And but Pete he 371 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:37.200 plays this song real life, it's real, it really and he's almost brought 372 00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:41.839 to tears by this. There's something about that song. He doesn't know what 373 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:48.079 it is. And that's the beginning of the story. And Pete decides to 374 00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:52.839 you know, to clear his head, to go downtown to keep an appointment 375 00:30:52.880 --> 00:31:00.599 he has with wn ETTV. And he decided as though, rather than walking 376 00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:07.200 you know, on the ground to the Fordham Metro North station, which in 377 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:12.400 his reality is still conrail, he decides to go through the Fordham Tunnels and 378 00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:18.200 which are real place, really exists under Fordham University in rose Hill. Not 379 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:22.440 everyone knows that that's right, and you know, they're very attractive vehicle, 380 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:29.480 you know, because they're strange. I actually uh use them in another completely 381 00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.400 different story. Uh, and it worked very well in that story. And 382 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:40.000 so I have Pete walked through the tunnels, and somehow walking through that tunnel, 383 00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:45.200 he finds when he gets downtown to Manhattan, he soon discovers that he's 384 00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.880 in a different world. And in fact, we're going to play a clip. 385 00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:52.920 And yes, I'm going to say we have a clip, if Neil 386 00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.640 can get ready, we have a first clip that we call funny Money, 387 00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:01.119 where when when in paying for his fare, he realizes that something might not 388 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:07.519 be quite right here. So let's let's it's only thirty seconds or so twenty 389 00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:10.960 five thirty seconds. Let's play that first clip from its real life, and 390 00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:16.480 it's called funny Money. Let's let's take a listen. It's real, it's 391 00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:29.359 real, it's really He places a ten dollar bill in the open guitar case 392 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:36.640 with a flourish isn't that President Reagan? Right? When did they change the 393 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:42.200 guy in the money Alexander Hamilton's on my ten dollar bills? Okay, maybe 394 00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:45.440 take a little horror there with with Ronald Reagan on money forgive me for the 395 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:52.440 political Hey might that might be a little horror part of the story. Forgive 396 00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:58.400 me, But explain what's what's going on there, Paul in that clip. 397 00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:02.359 So, first of all, Pete doesn't run into any problem on the train 398 00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:07.240 downtown because he's not yet into the alternate reality. I mean, he isn'to 399 00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:12.279 the altered reality because that happens in the tunnels, but he hasn't seen any 400 00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:16.559 evidence of it on the train downtown except for one thing. He again, 401 00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:24.599 he knows of this train as a Conrail network of trains, but he as 402 00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:30.880 as the conductor who collects his fair walks away, and she's wearing a nice, 403 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:35.079 tight outfit, and he looks at her. He sees like on the 404 00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:38.960 back of her shirt it says Metro North. So he just doesn't understand this, 405 00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:43.359 what happened. This is like a special branch of Conrail or whatever. 406 00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:47.559 He doesn't quite get it. But after that clip that you just played and 407 00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:54.920 what's going on there is First of all, Pete asks this busk group, 408 00:33:55.160 --> 00:34:00.559 can you play this song real life? That's what Pete knows, And the 409 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:05.720 buskers laugh at him and say, you know, we don't know real life. 410 00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:07.960 You mean Real Love, right, but they wind up playing real Love 411 00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:15.559 and the time that the alternate reality becomes crystal clear to Peters in a very 412 00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:22.440 generous move, he basically makes this grand gesture of putting a ten dollar bill 413 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.679 into their guitar case. That's a pretty nice, uh, you know, 414 00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:31.920 tip for buskers. And that's when this scene takes place, and you know, 415 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.320 one of the buskers says, you know, what's Ronald Reagan doing on 416 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:39.760 the money? Because if Peache still has the money from his reality, who 417 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:44.719 knows. Maybe in Peach reality, Reagan was a good president, so that's 418 00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:49.760 why they put him on the money. But but these people are something and 419 00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:53.639 something much closer to our reality, where Ragan was never on any dollar bill 420 00:34:54.760 --> 00:35:00.119 or ten dollar bill. And this is really the first tangible evidence. It's 421 00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:02.400 not a mistake. It's not like, you know, they put Metro the 422 00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:07.719 auth on the back of the conductor's uniform for whatever reason. This is basically 423 00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:15.800 tangible proof in hand that there's something very different about this world that Pete is 424 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:20.400 in. Well, one of the things I noticed, and it's interesting, 425 00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:24.119 you have certainly some sound effects, some great music contributed by others, but 426 00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:29.840 you're the voice of Pete Fournitel was that was it important for you to play 427 00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:34.079 Pete, to be the voice of Pete for Titel? Yeah, well, 428 00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.719 listen, you know, I, as a science fiction writer, have have 429 00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:42.360 a lot of experience of reading my stories at conventions and so on, so 430 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:50.079 I'm used to putting voice to my characters. And when then I'm I have 431 00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:55.440 to say. He now pronounces his name Vin Tease. But when I knew 432 00:35:55.519 --> 00:36:00.679 him, he was actually my student in the Master's pro gram in which I 433 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:05.159 was teaching before I came to Fordham back in the early nineteen eighties, and 434 00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:08.159 then he was Vin TC, so I still think of him as Vin TC. 435 00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:14.519 Anyway, he is the incredibly talented producer who put in all those sound 436 00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:16.000 effects. And he asked me, says, you know, who do you 437 00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:20.079 think we can get to play Pete fourn to tell? And he said to 438 00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:23.519 me, you know, I have this Rod Sarlon like announcer Bobby Roberto. 439 00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:28.039 He'll be great, trust me, And he is. I think Bob Roberto 440 00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:32.519 does a brand narration. And I said to you know, I said, 441 00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:37.599 look, you know then I'll be happy to do it. He says, 442 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:39.000 yeah, you think you can do I said, yeah, so you know 443 00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:44.920 he's a tough customer. Vin TC said, Okay, I'm gonna give you 444 00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:49.400 a series of lines. Let me hear you read them. So I didn't. 445 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:51.599 He thought it was good and that's how I got to do it. 446 00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.840 Great pause, We'll take a little break. I want to come back talk 447 00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:59.480 a little bit more about its real life. We have a few more clips 448 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:06.960 to play from it. Talk about how well received the radio play has been 449 00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:12.280 so far. FEV has played in a few other places. It's getting good 450 00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.840 reviews, getting good playtime. So much more to talk about. But well, 451 00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:20.039 let's take a quick break. You're watching being Frank. We're the only 452 00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:22.400 way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Labono. Our guest 453 00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:27.320 is doctor Paul Levinson, and we're discussing his new radio play. It's a 454 00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:30.079 real life. We'll be back with more right after these brief commercial messages. 455 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:36.119 Don't go anywhere yet Hudson River Radio dot com. Be sure to check out 456 00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:40.320 another one of our podcasts, Big Jim Wheelers Classic Radio Theater. It features 457 00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:45.920 historic radio shows from the nineteen thirties through the nineteen sixties, including Dragnet, 458 00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:52.119 Gunsmoke, The Shadow, and tons of other classic hits. Check out Big 459 00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:58.079 Jim Wheelers Classic Radio Theater on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever 460 00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:08.760 you get your podcasts Hudson River Radio dot com. Be sure to check out 461 00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:15.519 The Rock and Roll History Show podcast Brian Harrowitz and the Crambones explore the history 462 00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:20.719 of rock music and the true stories behind your favorite hit songs. Check out 463 00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:24.519 The Rock and Roll History Show on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, or 464 00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:34.840 wherever you get your podcasts Hudson River Radio dot com. We're back. It's 465 00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:37.800 Being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host, 466 00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:44.360 Frank Lamono. We'd like to thank our listeners. The mailman reminded me 467 00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:47.679 Neil Richter, our engineer. No, Frank, we're watching us. No 468 00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:52.639 one else is. Hopefully they're listening, so we get it right before the 469 00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:58.440 end of the show. Get thank you listeners for joining us here on Being 470 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:02.280 Frank. Remember our home base is Hudson River Radio dot com, but you 471 00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:07.679 can catch us listen to us virtually anywhere, at any time, wherever you 472 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:14.280 get your favorite podcasts, and whenever you get your favorite podcast, please think 473 00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:17.360 about becoming a subscriber so you can join it on all this fun that we're 474 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:22.559 having every week as a new guest. This week our guest is doctor Paul 475 00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:25.840 Levinson for the Media professor, one of my colleagues, an author, a 476 00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:29.840 musician, a critic, and on and on and on, and we're talking 477 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:34.840 about his new radio play, It's Real Life, an alternative day in the 478 00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:38.159 life if you will, of the Beatles and a former great New York DJ 479 00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:44.280 Pete four ntell. Paul, we were talking about and you set up the 480 00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:49.880 first incident where Pete four Nitel and his alternate universe if you will discover something 481 00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:55.159 with money, and that's the first inkling. We have another clip about John 482 00:39:55.239 --> 00:40:04.199 Lennon and the shock of realization something happened to John Lennon that he is not 483 00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:07.159 quite aware of in his universe. Let's set it up a little bit, 484 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:10.519 Paul, and then Neil, I'm already will listen to that. Paul, 485 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:14.519 set it up for us if you wouldn't. Okay, So Pete is still 486 00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:19.239 talking to these buskers because you know they sound great. They now saw two 487 00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:23.239 great Beatles songs. Yes it is, and what Pete thought would be real 488 00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:30.719 life and it turns out to be real love and and he's also now found 489 00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:32.880 out that his money, at least some of his money, doesn't seem to 490 00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:39.599 be any good in this terminal, Grand Central Terminal. He's continuing the conversation 491 00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:45.119 with them, and they begin talking Pete and the buskers about John Lennon, 492 00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:52.800 and one of the buskers says, you know, the last time she heard 493 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:58.800 that song Real Love was you know, they they played a video of it, 494 00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:02.079 and it was so sad. She began, you know, crying, 495 00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:07.599 and you know, Pete doesn't understand why I was. And remember Pete has 496 00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:10.719 this feeling of fear every time he hears this, so also but he wants 497 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:15.079 to understand. He feels a kinship with this busker. You know, why 498 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:19.559 why did you feel so bad about that? And the busker says, well, 499 00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:23.559 you know, you know he he was assassinated in nineteen eighty and like 500 00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:30.519 yo, she's practically in tears. And this hits Pete like a bowling ball 501 00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:36.480 in the face because it's one thing, the money, you know, is 502 00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:39.280 not the same, and you know, in a way it's something that somehow 503 00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:46.559 he always feared. But what this busker says to him is believable and and 504 00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:52.679 this is like it's not a knockout punch because he's still there talking. But 505 00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:57.400 this really hits him in the gut. And and it's important to keep in 506 00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:01.800 mind, he's Pete forn A tell he would know if John Lennon was assassinated. 507 00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:06.159 That's not something he wouldn't have heard of. That's not something he ever 508 00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:10.400 could have forgotten. And so to hear this, Busker say that this basically 509 00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:16.159 wakes Pete up completely to the fact of he doesn't know how he got here, 510 00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:21.239 but he is not in the world in which he was when he left 511 00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:24.320 Fordham University. All right, that's the setup. Let's listen. When did 512 00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:29.320 you last hear that song? I saw the video on MTV the other night. 513 00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:32.360 Very moving. I don't think i've seen it. What did you find 514 00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:37.440 moving? The battas? I mean, you know, with Lennon and all, 515 00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:43.840 it was very emotional. John always has a voice that pulls at your 516 00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:46.719 heart. Yeah, and seeing him come back to life on that video on 517 00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:52.840 this song was really something. Did something happen to John Lennon that he somehow 518 00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:57.760 hadn't heard about it? Impossible? Well, yeah, I can imagine the 519 00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:02.199 shock, as he said, because it's not only the reality of something different, 520 00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:07.679 but the content of what was different, And I think people again, 521 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:10.800 remember we have listeners from outside of the New York area. Pete for Ntell 522 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:16.199 was a legendary NTS jockey in New York and certainly considered an expert on the 523 00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:20.519 Beatles as well. So, as you mentioned, if anybody would know, 524 00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:25.039 he would have known. How did it happened in his world? But so 525 00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:29.960 interesting to be able to capture the emotion of that. How much of your 526 00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:34.960 emotion did you write into that poll? Because obviously too as a fan, 527 00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:39.039 as a musicologist, etc. It had to take a piece of your heart. 528 00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:44.360 How did you use that to create that scene? Well, I think, 529 00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:46.599 at least for me, and I think for everyone who writes, whether 530 00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:52.079 it's music or just words, whether it's fiction or nonfiction, you want to 531 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:59.119 draw upon the deepest feelings you have in your heart and soul. And as 532 00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:02.400 I said before, you know I lived through the nineteen sixties. You know, 533 00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:07.960 the assassination of John F. Kennedy was horrible than Martin Luther King, 534 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:12.599 then Robert F. Kennedy. I mean, you know that was about as 535 00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:16.440 horrible and terrible as it gets. But there was something about John Lennon's assassination 536 00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:27.679 in nineteen eighty that was uniquely perverted and horrible. And I wouldn't say I've 537 00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:30.480 gotten over John F. Kennedy's assassination. You know, it happened a long 538 00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:36.000 time ago, but it has its place in history. I think we'd be 539 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:39.840 a much better world if he hadn't been assassinated. But I don't actively grieve 540 00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:45.440 for John F. Kennedy. I you know, I feel terrible when I 541 00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:50.599 think about it, but there's something about John Lennon's assassination that I still grieve 542 00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:53.440 for to this day. And in that conversation, you know that you just 543 00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:59.360 heard. I mean every time I hear John Lennon's voice singing, you know, 544 00:44:59.480 --> 00:45:05.000 I feel that way because look, George Harrison tragically Guide of Natural Causes. 545 00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:08.639 That's terrible too. He died way too young. But I don't feel 546 00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:14.079 like that he was robbed from us. But with John Lennon, I do 547 00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:16.559 feel that way. And you know, we don't want to get too much 548 00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:22.320 into politics tonight, but you know, the guns in this country, in 549 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:27.960 the United States, are just insane, totally in saying, you know, 550 00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:31.280 when are we going to do something about that? We're the only country in 551 00:45:31.280 --> 00:45:37.599 the world and this lunatic got a gun and you know, just as easily 552 00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:40.480 as going in buying a pack of cigarettes or a pack of chewing gun and 553 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:46.079 then snuffed out someone who brought so much joy in music to the world. 554 00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:51.519 So yeah, all of that is always in my heart. And I basically, 555 00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:53.079 you know, listen to the Beatles music and I feel that way every 556 00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:57.440 time. As much as I enjoy it, a part of me feels that 557 00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:01.320 way. And that's what I brought into this story in the radio play. 558 00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:05.880 Well, I think to give it a certain perspective. And you mentioned Kennedy's 559 00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:09.280 assassination as well, and I think it's one of those things where we all 560 00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:13.920 remember where we were when we heard about Kennedy. I was a child at 561 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:17.239 Madonna Parochial School in Fort Lee, New Jersey, and I remember being brought 562 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:22.679 out of the classrooms and standing in the hallway and the mother superior or whatever 563 00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:28.119 they called them at the time I've forgotten at this religious institution, went up 564 00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:31.480 and down the hallway informing us, and then the crying and the whaling when 565 00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:36.239 everybody realized that it was real. I think I was seven or eight years 566 00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:39.239 old at the time, and I remember also the same thing where I was 567 00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:46.000 hearing I think watching Monday Night football and Howard Cosell and his heartfelt shocked announcement 568 00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:52.639 about the assassination of John Lennon. So he certainly reached the status where many 569 00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:57.559 many years later, for so many of us, we remember exactly where we 570 00:46:57.559 --> 00:47:01.519 were when we heard the news. Are your thoughts on that ball? Yeah, 571 00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:05.199 you know, I have to tell you about the assassination of John F. 572 00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:07.800 Kennedy. I remember where I was too. I was a freshman at 573 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:13.000 the City College of New York. I was taking a class in calculus. 574 00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:15.800 I never liked math anyway. I didn't like math when I was a kid. 575 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:19.119 It's like the most boring thing in the world. I know there were 576 00:47:19.159 --> 00:47:23.159 mathematicians who love it, not me. And someone is like a knock on 577 00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:28.519 the door. A student is standing out there as a grave expression, says 578 00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:31.480 something to the professor, and the student leads. The professor says, you 579 00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:36.079 know, I have some really sad news. The President of the United States, 580 00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:39.360 John F. Kennedy, has been shot and it seems he's been assassinated. 581 00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:43.679 And the class, everybody in the class, and we were freshmen, 582 00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:45.360 I was like sixteen years old, you know. It was the fall of 583 00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:49.960 my first year at City College, I and the other kids in the class 584 00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:53.280 stand up and are getting ready to leave, and the professor says, no, 585 00:47:53.280 --> 00:47:57.199 no, sit down, We're gonna have to finish our math lesson. 586 00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:00.039 And I remember that's always stuck in my mind as well. This guy, 587 00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:06.000 this math professor, you know, not only does he love mathematics, which 588 00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:09.000 I find a little hard to understand, he couldn't bring himself to dismiss the 589 00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:13.719 class. He went on and taught the rest of the class for like another 590 00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:19.639 twenty minute. So that's you know, just you know, insane. But 591 00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:22.840 you know, I think you know this, you know issue of where we 592 00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:28.280 were and and so forth. You know, you have all these coincidences in 593 00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:30.920 life, and I think this is the first time I even talked about this. 594 00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:35.920 So this is a very good question. Marshall mclewin, whom I work 595 00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:39.119 with, you know, in the mid nineteen seventies and got to meet him, 596 00:48:39.159 --> 00:48:45.960 and he was really a brain guy. He and John Lennon died around 597 00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:50.800 the same time, h you know, at the end of nineteen eighty and 598 00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:54.039 so for me, it was like like a double whammy. And I was, 599 00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:58.480 you know, pretty close to Marshall mclewin and you know, I was 600 00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:01.840 just talking about how I felt about John Lennon. But that was one hell 601 00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:08.039 of an aggravating month. And you know, again you talk about the world 602 00:49:08.519 --> 00:49:13.800 turning and changing, and you know, I'll tell you something else, I, 603 00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:19.440 maybe wrongly, had always hoped and even expected that the Beatles would get 604 00:49:19.480 --> 00:49:23.199 back together. And you know, the first thing that I was feeling when 605 00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:30.280 you know John Lennon was killed is well, the Beatles were killed because they 606 00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:32.840 can't get anybody replaced John Lennon. There was even some thought for a while 607 00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:37.840 by getting you know, his son, Julian Lennon, who actually sounds pretty 608 00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:40.320 good, but he wasn't his father. And Paul mccartnin even said, you 609 00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:45.360 know, it's not right to Julian to put this much pressure on him. 610 00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:50.519 So at that instant, you know, in December nineteen eighty, I could 611 00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:57.119 see and feel and hear the world turn and not for the not for the 612 00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:01.239 better. We have another clip to play, Paul, or a third and 613 00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:07.679 last clip. It's a Beatles historic reference. Set that up for us a 614 00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:09.639 little bit before. When we listen, Neil, get that ready, and 615 00:50:09.679 --> 00:50:14.599 then well, but let's tell us a little bit about it first, Okay, 616 00:50:14.599 --> 00:50:17.480 So we left Pete in the caverns of Grand Central Terminal talking to the 617 00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:22.960 buskers. The buskers are telling him, and who cares anymore about who's on 618 00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:27.480 the money. The buskers are telling him that John Lennon was assassinated in nineteen 619 00:50:27.559 --> 00:50:30.519 eighty. Pete can't believe that. He feels in his heart and soul that 620 00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:37.599 it's true, but he cannot believe that it's crazy. So he runs out 621 00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:40.400 of Grand Central station and thinks to himself, I got to find a bookstore. 622 00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:44.400 Oh yeah, there's a Bonds and Nobles a couple of blocks, you 623 00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:47.519 know, up the street. He runs into Bonds and Noble, looks in 624 00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:53.480 the encyclopedias, and what you're going to hear is his response a little later, 625 00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:59.280 shocked, you know, to the core about what he found in those 626 00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:02.960 encycloped That's a confirmation of everything he feared and dread. All right, let's 627 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:07.760 play that clip if you would. Not only was John Lennon murdered in nineteen 628 00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:13.480 eighty according to those encyclopedias. The Beatles disbanded in nineteen seventy. Band on 629 00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:16.599 the Run was a McCartney only album with his new band Wings released in nineteen 630 00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:22.719 seventy three. Handle with Care a huge hit for the Beatles in nineteen eighty 631 00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:27.519 eight. The biggest of the decade was instead recorded and released by a supergroup 632 00:51:27.559 --> 00:51:31.159 that same year, a supergroup consisting of George Harrison, Bob Dylan, Boy 633 00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:37.800 Orbison and two guys. Pete never heard of that. So you can't see 634 00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:42.880 I see your smile. You're getting getting kick out of yourself there, so 635 00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:47.519 I can see you. People can't when I can play Bo big big creds. 636 00:51:47.519 --> 00:51:52.079 I got to Bobby Roberto. Wasn't that a great rendition of narration? 637 00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:59.559 But I also laughing because someone who heard the the radio play and who read 638 00:51:59.599 --> 00:52:05.239 the store actually beforehand. Another this jockey, his name is Phil Merkle. 639 00:52:05.320 --> 00:52:07.599 He goes by the name of Captain Phil, and he has a show on 640 00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:13.639 w USB radio. The first time he heard it, he said, you 641 00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:16.000 know, how dare you do that to Jeff Lynn? You know, you 642 00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:19.159 know, what do you mean? Pete never heard of Jeff Lynn? I 643 00:52:19.159 --> 00:52:21.519 said, well, what do you want? He comes from an alternate reality, 644 00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:24.360 right, That's that's what it was. And so that last piece, 645 00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:31.440 basically I hope brings home to the listener the differences between the two worlds, 646 00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:36.440 you know, the things that we take for granted. So just on that 647 00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:39.480 last you know point, Handle with Ked, this great song about the traveling 648 00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:44.400 Wilburies. You know who are the Traveling WILBURI is the supergroup you know, 649 00:52:44.679 --> 00:52:47.639 you know Roy Orbison, you know Bob Dylan, et cetera, et cetera, 650 00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:52.960 and you know they George Irrison obviously in Tom Petty and Jeff Lynn, 651 00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:59.079 we know that reality like the back of our hand. But Pete comes from 652 00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:01.679 reality where Yeah, Handle with Care was a great song, but the Beatles 653 00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:06.719 are still together in nineteen eighty eight, so George brought it to the Beatles 654 00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:08.360 John and Paul said, yeah, it's a great song. Let's sing it. 655 00:53:08.599 --> 00:53:14.599 So there's a version of Handle with Care out there in an alternate reality 656 00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:20.000 in which the original Beatles are singing it. And that's what that scene is 657 00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:23.800 supposed to bring home. Ultimately, Paul, what do you think people should 658 00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:30.920 take from its real life? What can they take away from it? I 659 00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:38.519 don't know the ultimate nature of reality any more than anybody else does, but 660 00:53:38.599 --> 00:53:46.679 I have always thought and felt that the lives we are living here there could 661 00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:52.719 be a hundred a thousand other variations on those lives, and obviously novels and 662 00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:59.679 movies have been you know, made about that. You know the girl we 663 00:53:59.719 --> 00:54:02.880 had a crush on and junior high school and maybe like we made out at 664 00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:07.400 some party and then that was pretty much the last time we saw each other. 665 00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:12.719 There's a reality in which we got happily married and now have grandkids. 666 00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:17.880 I mean, I think that there is more to life than just this world 667 00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:22.360 that's all around us, and I have no idea how to get there. 668 00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:28.320 I don't know whether or not that's just a feeling or a reflection of what 669 00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:34.480 the reality ultimately is. But that's what I want listeners to think about after 670 00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:39.079 they've heard this play, that maybe maybe it doesn't have to be It didn't 671 00:54:39.079 --> 00:54:45.079 have to be this way the way it is for us. Okay, where 672 00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:49.519 can our listeners here? The entire We play a few clips, the entire 673 00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:54.880 play is how long entire plays, like twenty three twenty four minutes. And 674 00:54:54.920 --> 00:54:59.840 then when you go to the site, you'll also hear an interview that wasn 675 00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:05.440 acted with me, but completely different from this interview because I don't want to 676 00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:09.239 take anything away from it, but couldn't possibly is good because this interview was 677 00:55:09.599 --> 00:55:15.760 our interview. That was Krem give us the site ball where Yeah, so 678 00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:22.280 it's it's it's Killer Watt dot co CEOs. That's Killer Watt k I L 679 00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:28.280 L E R W A T T dot c O. And when you go 680 00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:32.719 to that site, that's the radio station. Look Killerwat and uh it broadcasts 681 00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:40.280 someplace from Brooklyn overlooking the Gowanas Canal. God help them, but I know 682 00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:46.159 what they seeing in that canal. But when you go there, the first 683 00:55:46.159 --> 00:55:52.880 thing you'll see is Bobby Roberto presents its real life and you click on the 684 00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:57.760 player and that's when you and you can see all the credits also in the 685 00:55:57.880 --> 00:56:01.559 radio play. Well, we'd like to thank our guest doctor Paul Levinson for 686 00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:07.440 being Frank and his intelligent conversation. Of course once again, and a special 687 00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:12.559 bank to our listeners who take the time to give us a voice in their 688 00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:15.679 lives. Remember we offer a fresh topic every week and you can catch us 689 00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:22.440 wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts remember like Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, 690 00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:27.119 Speaker and more. You can also check us out on the Being Frank 691 00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:30.679 Facebook page. And we'll leave you with two last little nuggets. Of course, 692 00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:35.599 our slogan, and of course I had to take it from the Beatles' 693 00:56:35.840 --> 00:56:39.000 Hopefully you'll appreciate this, Paul, and everyone will. The love you take 694 00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:45.039 is equal to the love you make. Very poignant says it all right there, 695 00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:50.039 And we have some closing music, some of your music, Paul, 696 00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:53.239 that's also part of the teleplay that you wrote. Tell us a little bit 697 00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:57.960 about it. Set it up for us, please, Okay. So you 698 00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:00.880 know, as a science fiction writer, I sometimes write songs, not stories 699 00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:07.440 or novels. And back at the end of two thousand eleven, I got 700 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:10.039 in touch. I can't remember how we met. I think somebody recommended he 701 00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:14.599 wrote music. I wrote lyrics that maybe we could write some songs together. 702 00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:19.400 His name is John Annelio, and you know, we talked a little bit 703 00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:21.559 and he said, well, send me some lyrics and I'll, you know, 704 00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:23.480 you know, put it to music, see what you think. So 705 00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:28.199 one of the lyrics I sent to him is a song called If I Traveled 706 00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:31.440 to the Past, and it's a mixture of time travel and romance. And 707 00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:37.559 if you travel to the past and you fixed things with someone, and how 708 00:57:37.639 --> 00:57:40.360 would you know to change that in the first place? In the present, 709 00:57:40.599 --> 00:57:44.239 Why would you have traveled in the past in the first place, so that's, 710 00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:46.960 you know, one of the prime paradoxes of time travel. So we 711 00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:52.440 wrote that song in two thou eleven. In two thousand and eighteen, I 712 00:57:52.519 --> 00:57:57.280 began recording songs for Welcome Up. Songs of Space and Time. You've played 713 00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:00.840 some of them at the end of some of our previous interviews on our other 714 00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:06.760 shows. And one of the songs that I played for the producer Chris Hoisington, 715 00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:12.159 who is part of Old Bear Records. That's the label on which the 716 00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:15.800 album was released, and they have great studio, Old Bear Studios in Batavia, 717 00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:20.480 New York. He heard that song if I traveled to the past and 718 00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:22.239 say, hey, this is a great song. Let's record it and put 719 00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:27.360 it on the album. So we did record it. How did it get 720 00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:30.679 into its real life? I don't want to give too much away about the 721 00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:37.079 very ending, but there's yet another twist in this story, and it has 722 00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:43.280 to do with a this is something that happened in our reality. In our 723 00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:49.920 reality, Paul McCartney contacted Isaac Asimov and said to late nineteen sixties, hey, 724 00:58:49.960 --> 00:58:52.880 maybe we can write a musical together, you know, send me a 725 00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:59.119 treatment I'll write the songs, and Asimov sat down and wrote that I'm not 726 00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:05.519 going to say anymore, and I will say though, if you haven't heard 727 00:59:05.599 --> 00:59:09.840 that, the reason is it was never made. But in Pete's new alternate 728 00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:15.559 reality, it turns out that it was made. And this song, which 729 00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:22.239 I wrote with John Annelio Chris Hoisington produced. We took the track of that 730 00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:30.000 and a British singer by the name of Spencer Hannibus you'll hear is a great 731 00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:35.519 voice, and he sang if I traveled to the past over the track that 732 00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:42.199 Chrissington produced, and this is what pretty much rolls out the radio play at 733 00:59:42.199 --> 00:59:46.800 the end. It's real life a radio played by Paul Levinson. He gave 734 00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:51.360 you the website where you can check it out. I highly recommended, folks. 735 00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:53.719 It's an awful lot of fun, Doctor Paul Levinson, thank you once 736 00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:58.280 again for joining us, and of course thank you to Neil Richter, the 737 00:59:58.360 --> 01:00:02.360 mailman, our engineer drove our bustle all the way to our final destination. 738 01:00:02.840 --> 01:00:07.000 And of course thanks to our listeners for being frank with us. I'm your 739 01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:12.840 host, Frank Lebono, and we'll see you on the next Being Frank now. 740 01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:16.639 What you heard in the radio play was the backing track of that recording, 741 01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:22.679 which was produced for My Record. The track was produced by Chris Poisington 742 01:00:22.519 --> 01:00:29.440 and it was sung in the radio play by Spencer Cannabis. And here now 743 01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:35.320 is if I traveled to the past, If I traveled to the past to 744 01:00:35.719 --> 01:00:40.280 change all man, So you loved me then, and you love me now? 745 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:46.320 What I have known to travel back in the first place? If I 746 01:00:46.599 --> 01:00:52.280 travel best selfast the other world was blind? God a slip, good time, 747 01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:59.840 good to slip the vine of paradox that turns the best into the worst 748 01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:08.000 place. It ain't simple, It ain't round to turn the sun into the 749 01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:15.440 darkest night. If I can make it work just one time, I could 750 01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:23.519 have it all. I could make you mind. If I travel to the 751 01:01:23.760 --> 01:01:30.760 best. No, I'm never tell a sing, so my list would be 752 01:01:30.159 --> 01:01:38.079 sealed except when they brushed against your sweet face. If I travel to the 753 01:01:38.199 --> 01:01:44.840 past to change your mind, so you love me then, and you love 754 01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:50.960 me now? That I have known to travel back in the first place. 755 01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:59.039 No, it an't symbol. It ain't by to tell the sun or to 756 01:01:59.320 --> 01:02:04.559 my dark this night. Look, if I could make it one, just 757 01:02:04.840 --> 01:02:09.559 one time, I could have it off. I could have you mind. 758 01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:20.920 If only I could travel back through time. If only I could travel back 759 01:02:21.039 --> 01:02:53.159 to time. This is Hudson River Radio dot com, your local Rockland County station,