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Today we have Elon Musk Elon,
thank you for joining us, Thanks for

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having me. So we want to
spend the time today talking about your view

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of the future and what people should
work on. So to start off,

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could you tell us you famously said
when you were younger, there were five

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problems that you thought were most important
for you to work on. If you

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were twenty two today, what would
the five problems that you would think about

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working on. B Well, first
of all, I think, um,

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if somebody is doing something that is
useful to the rest of society, I

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think that's a good thing. Like
it doesn't have to change the world.

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Like you know, Um, if
you're doing something that has high value to

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people, and frankly, even if
it's something if it's like, um,

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just a little game um, or
you know, the some improvement in photo

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sharing or something, if if does
a small amount of good for a large

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number of people, UM, that's
I mean, I think that's that's fine.

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Like stuff doesn't need to be changed
the world just to be good.

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UM. But you know, in
terms of things that I think are most

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likely to affect the future of humanity, I think um ai is probably the

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single biggest item in the near term
that's likely effect humanity. So it's very

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important that we have the advent of
AI UH in a good way. That

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that is something that UM, if
you if you could look into the crystal

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ball and see the future, you
would like you would like that outcome,

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UM, because it is something that
could go UM could go wrong UM,

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as we've talked about many times UM, and so we really need to make

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sure it goes right. UM.
That's that's I think AI work working on

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AI and making sure it's great future. That's that's the most important thing I

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think right now, UM the most
pressing item. So UH. Then UM,

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I would say anything into do with
with genetics. UM, if you

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can actually solve UM genetic diseases,
if you can prevent dementia or Alzheimer's or

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something like that, that with genetic
reprogramming, that would be wonderful. So

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I think there's genetics. It might
be the sort of second most important item.

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I think, UM having a high
band with interface to the brain like

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UM, we're currently bandwidth limited.
We have a digital tertiary self in the

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form of our email capabilities of computers, phones, applications were effectively superhuman,

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but we are extremely bad with constraint
in that interface between the cortex and you're

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sort of that that tertiary digital form
of yourself, and helping solve that bandwidth

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constraint would would be I think very
important for the future as well. So

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one of the I think most common
questions I hear young people, ambitious young

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people ask, is I want to
be the next Elon Musk. How do

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I do that? Um? Obviously
the next Elon Musk will work on different

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things than than you did. But
what have you done or what did you

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do when you were younger that you
think sort of set you up to have

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a big impact. Well, I
think that's well, I should say that

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I do not expect to be involved
in all these things. So the the

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the five things that I thought about
the time in college, so quite a

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long time ago, twenty five years
ago, UM, you know, being

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you know, making life multiplanetary UM, slttering, the transition to sustainable energy

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UM, the Internet broadly speaking UM, and then genetics and AI. I

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think I didn't expect to be involved
in in all of those things. I

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actually, at the time in college
I sort of thought m helping with electrification

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of cars was how we sought out
and that's uh, that's actually what I

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worked on as an intern was an
advanced ultra capacitors with to see if they

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would be a breakthrough relative to batteries
for energy storage and in cars. And

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then when I came out to go
to Stamford, UM, that's what I

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was going to be doing my grass
studies on is as it was, working

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on advanced energy storage technologies for electric
cars. And then I put that on

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hold to start an internet company in
ninety five because um, there does seem

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to be like a time for particular
technologies when they're at a steep point in

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the inflection curve. And and I
didn't want to you know, do a

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PhD at Stamford and then and what
should all happen? Um? And then

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and I wasn't entirely certain that the
technology I'd be working on would actually succeed.

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Um, like you can get you
can get a you know, doctrine

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on many things that ultimately are not
do not have a practical bearing on the

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world. UM. And I wanted
to, you know, just I really

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was just trying to be useful.
That's the optimization. It was like,

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what what what can I do that
would actually be useful. Do you think

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people that want to be useful to
day should get PhDs? UM? Mostly

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not so what is the best way? Yes, but mostly not. UM.

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How should someone figure out how they
can be most useful whatever this thing

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is that you're trying to create,
what would what would be the UM utility

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delta compared to the current state of
the art times how many people it would

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affect. So that's why I think
UM. Having something that has a that

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that has a makes makes a big
difference but affects a sort of small to

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moderate number of people is great,
as is something that makes even a small

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difference but but affects a vast number
of people. Like the area yeah,

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you know under the curve, Yeah
exactly, the area under the curve is

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would actually be roughly similar for those
two things. So it's actually really about

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uh yeah, just trying to be
useful and matter when you're trying to estimate

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probability of success. So you say
this thing will be really useful area under

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the curve. I guess to use
the example of SpaceX. When you made

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the go decision that you're actually going
to do that was kind of a very

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crazy thing at the time, very
crazy for sure. Yeah, well I'm

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not sure about saying that, UM, but I kind of agree. I

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agreed with them that it was quite
crazy crazy if m If the objective was

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to achieve the best risk adjusted return
UM, starting a rock company is insane.

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But that was not that was not
my objective. I had some of

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the come to the conclusion that if
something didn't happen to improve rock technology would

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be stuck on Earth forever. Um
And and the big aerospace companies had just

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had no interest in radical innovation.
UM. All they wanted to do was

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try to make their old technology slightly
better every year, and in fact sometimes

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we would actually get worse. Um
And, particularly in rockets is pretty bad.

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Like the in sixty nine were able
to go to the Moon with a

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Saturn five, and then the Space
Shuttle could only take people to lowth orbit,

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and then the Space Shuttle retired.
I mean that that trend is basically

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trends to zero. If you also
I think technology just automatically gets better over

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a year, but it actually doesn't. It only gets better if smart people

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work work like crazy to make it
better. That's how any technology actually gets

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better, and by itself. Technology
if people don't work in it actually will

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decline. Um. I mean you
can look look at the history of civilizations,

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many civilizations, and look at say, um ancient Egypt. Were they

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able to build these incredible permids,
and then they basically forgot how to build

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permits, and and then even in
hieroglyphics, they've forgot how to read hier

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hieroglyphics. Or we look at Rome
and how they're able to to build these

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incredible roadways and aqueducts and indoor plumbing, and they've forgot how to do all

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of those things. Um. And
there are many such examples in history.

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UM. So I think she always
bear in mind that you know an entropy

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is not on your side. Ye. One thing I really like about you

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is you are unusually fearless and willing
to go in the face of other people

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telling you something that's crazy. And
I know a lot of pretty crazy people.

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You still stand out. Where does
that come from? Or how do

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you think about making a decision when
everyone tells you this is a crazy idea?

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Or where do you get the internal
strength to do that? Well,

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that's all I'd say. I actually
think I think I fear feel fear quite

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strongly, so as one as though
I just have the absence of fear.

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I feel it quite strongly. But
there it's times when something is important enough,

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you've believe it enough that do you
do it in spite of fear.

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So speaking of important things like people
shouldn't think I should, people shouldn't think,

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well, I feel fear about this, and therefore I shouldn't do it.

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It's normal to feel fear, like
you'd have to definitely something mentally wrong

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if you should feel fear, so
you just feel it and let the importance

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of it drive you to do it
anyway. Yeah, you know. I

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Actually something I can be helpful isism
some degree. Um, if you just

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if you just accept the probabilities,
then that diminishes fear. So um.

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Starting SpaceX, I thought the odds
of success were less than ten percent,

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and I just accepted that. Actually, probably I would just lose, lose

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everything, but that maybe would make
some progress if we could just move the

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ball forward, even if we died, maybe some other company could pick up

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the baton and move and keep moving
it forward so that we're still doing some

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good. Um. Yeah. Same
with Tesla. I thought the odds of

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a car company succeeding were extremely low. What do you think the odds of

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the Mars colony are at this point
today? Well, um, oddly enough,

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I actually think they're pretty good.
Um, So like when can I

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go? Okay? Um, at
this point, I am certain there is

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a way. I'm certain that success
is one of the possible outcome for establishing

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a self sustaining mass colony about growing
mass colony. I'm certain that that is

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possible, whereas until maybe a few
years ago, I was not sure that

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success was even one of the possible
outcomes. Some meaningful number of people going

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to Mars. I think this is
potentially something that can be accomplished in about

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ten years, maybe sooner, maybe
nine years. I need to make sure

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that SpaceX doesn't die between now and
then, and that I don't die,

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or if I do die, that
someone takes over who will continue That shouldn't

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go on the first launch, Yeah, exactly. The most launch will be

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a robotic anyway, so I want
to go. Except for the Internet latency,

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Yeah, the INNRT latency will be
pretty significant. Mars is roughly twelve

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light minutes from the Sun and Earth
is eight light minutes, so closest approach

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Mars is four light minutes away that
first approaches twenty a little more because you

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have to you can't talk directly through
the on speaking of really important problems um

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AI. So you've been outspoken about
AIM. Could you talk about what you

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think the positive future for AI looks
like and how we get there? Okay,

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I mean I do want to emphasize
that this is not really something that

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I advocate or this is not prescriptive. This is simply hopefully predictive, because

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who looks on a sailor will like
like, this is something that I want

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to occur instead of something I think
that probably is the best of the available

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alternatives. The best of the available
alternatives that I can come up with,

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and maybe somebody else can come with
a better approach or better outcome, is

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that we achieve democratrazation of AI technology, meaning that no one company or a

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small set of individuals has control over
advanced AI technology. I think that that's

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very dangerous. Um it could also
get stolen by somebody bad, you know,

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like some evil dictator or country could
send their intelligence agency to go steal

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it and gain control. It just
becomes a very unstable situation. I think

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if you've got any any incredibly powerful
aim. You just don't know who's who's

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going to control that. So it's
not as that I think that the risk

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is that the AI would develop a
will of its own right off the bat.

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I think it's more that's the consumers
that someone may use it in a

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way that is bad, or and
even if they weren't going to use it

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in a way that's bad, that
somebody could take it from them and use

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it in a way that's bad.
That that I think is quite a big

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danger. So I think we must
have democratrazation of AI technology and make it

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widely available. And that's you know, the reason that obviously, you mean,

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the rest of the team you know, created Open the Eye was to

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help with the democtras, help help
spread out AI technology so it doesn't get

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concentrated in the hands of a few. UM. And but then of course

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that needs to be combined with solving
the high band with interface to the cortex.

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UM. Humans are humans are socla, yes exactly, UM. But

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you know, we already have a
situation in our brain where we've got the

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cortex and limit system, and the
limit system is kind of the I mean,

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that's that's the primitive brain. It's
kind of like the your your instincts

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and um whatnot. And then the
cortex is the thinking upper part of the

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brain. Those two seem to work
together quite well. Um. Occasionally your

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cortex and limbic system they disagree,
but they generally works pretty well. And

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it's like rare to find someone who
I've not found someone who wishes to either

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get rid of the cortex or get
rid of the living system. Very true,

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Yeah, it's that's unusual. So
so I think if if we can

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effectively UM merge with AI, like
UM, improving that the neural link between

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your cortex and the the your digital
extension of yourself, which already, like

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said, already exists, just has
a bandwidth issue, UM, and then

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then effectively, UM, you become
an AI human symbiote UM and and if

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that then is widespread with anyone who
wants it can have it. Then we

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solve the control problem as well.
We don't have to worry about UM some

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sort of evil dictator AI because kind
of we are the aim collectively, that

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seems like the best outcome I can
think of. So you've seen other companies

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in their early days that starts small
and get really successful. UM, hope

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I don't get asking this on camera, but how do you open aye is

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going as a six month old company, I think should go pretty well.

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I think we've got a really talented
group of Opening Eye and yeah, really

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really talented team and they're working hard. UM. Open Eye is structured as

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uh see a five one through a
nonprofit UM. But you know, many

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nonprofits do not have a sense of
urgency. If it's fine, they don't

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have to have a sense of urgency
UM. But Opening EYEASUM because I think

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people really believe in the mission.
I think it's important UM, and it's

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it's about minimizing UM the risk of
existential harm in the future. And so

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I think it's going well. I'm
pretty impressed with what people are doing in

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the talent level, and obviously we're
always looking for UM great people to join

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who believe in the mission for people. Yes, all right, just a

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few more questions before we wrap up. How do you spend your days now?

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Like? What what do you allocate
most of your time too? My

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time is mostly split up between SpaceX
and and Tesla, and of course I

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try to spend it's a part of
every week at Opening Eye UM. So

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I spend most I spend basically half
a day at open eye most weeks,

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um. And then and then I
have some opening eye stuff that happens during

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the week, but other than that, it's sax or tesla. Like what

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does your time look like there?
Yeah, so that's a good question.

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Um. I think a lot of
people think I must spend a lot of

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time with media or on business see
things. But actually, almost almost all

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my time, like eighty percent of
it is spent on engineering and design.

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Engineering and design, so it's um, developing the next generation product. That's

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percent of it. Um. You
probably don't remember this a very long time

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ago, many many years, you
took me on a tour of SpaceX,

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and the most impressive thing was that
you knew every detail of the rocket and

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every piece of engineering that went into
it. I don't think many people get

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that about you. Yeah, I
think a lot of people think I'm kind

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of a business person or something.
It's just fine, like business is fine,

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but like I really it's you know, it's like it's SpaceX. Gwyn

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Shotwell is chief operating officer. She
kind of manages legal, finance, sales

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and kind of general business activity.
And then my time is almost entirely with

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the inteering team working on improving the
Falconine and the Dragon spacecraft and developing the

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most colonial architecture. And then at
Tesla it's working on the Model three and

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yeah something. The design studio typically
UM happy day a week dealing with this

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aesthetics and and look and feel things, and then most of the rest the

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week is just going through engineering of
of the car itself as well as engineering

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of the factory. UM because the
biggest epipany I've had this year is that

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what really matters is the is the
machine that builds the machine, the factory

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UM, and that is at least
towards magitude hotter than the vehicle itself.

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It's amazing to watch the robots go
here and these cars just happen. Yeah.

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Now, this actually is has a
relatively low level of automation compared to

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what the Giga factory will have in
what Model three will have. What's the

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speed on the line of these cars? Actually, the average feed on the

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line is incredibly slow. It's probably
about UM including both X and sum,

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it's maybe five, you know,
five centimeters per second? And what can

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you do? This is very slow? Or what would you like to get

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to I'm confident we can get to
to at least one per second, so

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a twenty fold increase that would be
very fast. Yeah, um, at

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least I mean, I think quite
a one meter per second. Just put

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that perspective, is a slow walk
or a co medium speed walk. A

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fast walk could be one and a
half meters per second, and and then

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the fastest humans can run over ten
meters per second. So if we're only

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doing points oh five meters per second, that's very slow current current speed.

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And at one meter per second,
you can still walk faster than the production line