What is crack lacking hardwareknos listeners. I am Dance vallec coming at you without my co host Adam frommel I am, however, pleased to be joined by one of my favorite people who covers follows the Celtics, Alex Kungu. Follow him on Twitter at Ku n gu Underscore NBA. Great follow on Twitter for the entire MBA, but also for the Celtics. I think, as anyone can tell, at this point, I'm probably gonna ask him a bunch of questions about the Boston Celtics, who have had a pretty eventful post postseason arc. First and foremost, though, Alex, how are you doing? I'm doing well. It's much more free time than I'm used to at the Celtic fan. It's been very weird watching your Knicks in the playoffs, while you know, being much better than myself. It's been a very weird year, man. But I'm doing okay. Thank you for having me, uh who, I don't know. I mean, watching the Knicks was was painful, so kind of right there with you. But look, Boston, I have to I have to kind of start here. Is how surprising were the moves plural this past week? Was it a situation where the Angel news didn't surprise you, but the Brad Stevens news did. Did you see like both of these moves happening. Were you shocked by by both of them? What was the pulse amongst Celtics fans media about this happening? Yeah, so like amongst of fans, everything was like a blind side amongst like media and then like you also heard a little bit more from like national side. There wasn't understanding that this was most likely Angels last year with the team. People did understand that a lot of people were expecting that around the league. What was surprising though, was the Brad Stevens promotion, which I'm sure you're gonna ask you about next, that caught everybody up guard, including myself, because just wow, it's it's just you don't see you don't you don't see a coach that good just leave a leave a job like that, and just and like it was just it was crazy because but it makes sense, but it was. I would say that the Brad Stevens promotion was definitely the thing that shocked all of us around and I have the most questions about that, But I want to ask you about a specifically, First, do you think it was time for him to step down? Like was this the independent of what happened after him stepping down their decision to go to Stevens. Do you think that this was the right move for him to step down in general? Yeah, I mean, I think the past couple of years, I know, I know the reports have been like he's been having a lot of trouble, Like what's like the bricks of the job. He's been there for eighteen years, almost twenty years. It's not a job where those guys usually stayed for like two decades. That's not the norm. So and I do kind of think it was time for the Celtics and kind of turn turn to page bringing new people, have a little bit of diverse idea is age Age was himself someone that tried to push the edge with open minded and his open mindus is what God is Brad Stevens in the first place. But I do think at the top there needed to be just someone that could see things a little bit different because we were just out of position now where the team has to has to figure out some things really quick and the way and just you know, the last one or two years for age. It's pretty clear that what he wanted to do did not work out, and it just seemed to take time now to change and let somebody else figure out what the next step is going to be for the scenes, What did you think about the decisions to go with Brad Stevens. Were you surprised that if this was going to happened that there wasn't a more extensive or if we gave him the benefit of the doubt and said, okay, well maybe they did it behind the scenes, that the search wasn't more public. But I think it's pretty clear from anything that anyone's heard, but also just the way it happened that this was not a situation where they canvassed far and wide. Uh So, how do you feel about it just going to to Stevens in general? Yes, my initial reaction was that it was really shocking, just you know, like like anybody else, like a coach, it just turns to the president of Mass Operations, like what the hell? And then and then like what you hear is like, oh yeah, but he's kind of like been in the room for a lot of these things. Now, I don't know how familiar that it's like a lot of coaches, I know, and like most quotes are there in the draft room. But the way what what what Boston's front office right now he's putting out here was that, yeah, he doesn't have actual experience, but he's been kind of learning, and it looks like him in Age, I've been preparing to do something like this maybe for a little bit longer than any of us realize. So who knows if that's true or that just like the spin they want to put on it now because the backlash that they received were not casting a wide met But you know, we'll see, like we really don't know. It's helpful that it seems like Mike Saren is gonna stay. It also seems like Danny Age wants to at least stay around during like the transition, which means that he might be involved in some of like the initial off season stuff. We'll see. But you know, it's again but that the subfics are taken because there was, you know, there was a market for that. There were a lot of talented front office exacts that could have came in and helped. And you do have to wonder if maybe because it gave Stevens that extension last year, that they knew if they brought in anew exactly what's the first thing most exects want to do, have their own coach to push their system. So there were some talks about that we don't know what's true or not. It's just been it's been a whirldwin. But yeah, I was. I was very shocked. And we'll just see how how have it molted because it's definitely gonna be attic. Cath bras all and you already responded to this when stephen A said that, effectively, it seems like he was annoyed that more players weren't speaking out, that these jobs weren't going to more people of color, and then it seemed he did take issue with the way that the actual search and transition took place. I don't want to actually whitewash the conversation too much with my own thoughts, but I'm just curious how you felt because that specific if you have a problem with the way that the search went, and I totally like, I'll listen to that, but I don't know how you're supposed to shift like the onus of responsibility here onto the players, who are i e. The employees as opposed to their employers. Yeah, And I mean that was that was mostly my thoughts as well. It just doesn't make any sense to put to put the onus on on athletes in that way we expect them to have any effect, them to go out there on play and perform at a high level and and and part blockout noise and focus on like the job that's in front of them. So for them to now also be the persons that have to be the front line when when to got social justice, be the front lines and putting out their money when it comes to those things, be the first line, costing themselves money for their protests to raise awareness. Meanwhile, the billionaire owners that continue to rack in, you know, like the money and the investments, and they don't have to put their base there. They don't have to go out and perform for it, you know. Like I feel like if you want to start the blame and start and starts wanting change, it has to come from them. And I know Stephen A made a comment about how the Rooney rule may not be that effective because they didn't work in the NFL. Personally, I think the Rooney rule would work extremely well in the NBA, just because it's less people and letting players have more power in a way where if it becomes a thing where players are choosing locations because of diverse front offices, it can become a thing where that becomes a thing where teams do as a as a competitive advantage. And I don't think I think that the amount of players that are in the NFL, it's hard that the organize that way. So I do think Steven as Heart was in the right place. I just think he blamed the wrong people, But I do and I do feel that installing something like the Rooney role would be a helpful tool for the NBA going forward. That's a really interesting take on the Rooney rule. I didn't think about it like that, and I'm inclined to agree. The other thing about this search too, and it obviously doesn't apply to that is just like, are you surprised that, like didn't it kind of seem like if Angel was going to leave, that maybe it would be Mike Zarin that would be next in line for this for this job, and instead it's you know, they don't even do like this search. It's somebody within the organization that essentially gets promoted over him. And I think that took me aback just as much as the Celtics, not you know, doing a more extensive canvas of the league for this job. Yeah, and it does kind of feel like then you and wanted to retire, which is fine, but it's a key distinction for people to understand. Andrew retired, Ange didn't get fired. What that means is that it's not like the front ops and the ownership wanted to get rid of everyone in the front offers right, And I think they made decisions based on that, which may or may not end up being a mistake, because I do think they're right, and I do think people are right who questioned the process on how this worked. This was definitely a situation where I do feel like the team kind of shows this arrangement versus maybe other arrangements that could have led to more turnover because they're not interested in as big of a turnover. I think they kind of just wanted a facelift more than just a whole cosmetic makeover. This is and it's not related to Brad Stevens's new job, really, but there was I saw a bunch of you know, the jokes are funny, but it does seem like the actual opinion or I don't want to say consensus, but there are a ton of people outside of the Boston media slash fans that think Brad Stevens effectively failed upward here and again, I don't know whether he's qualified for this job, but has he become just underrated or miss represented as a head coach because it does feel like to me personally, and I'll throw this out there first that this is more of an issue of people who don't follow the Celtics didn't wash the Celtics are choppering in without taking it into account of context, which was for Brad Stevens. Yeah, there was a talent drain. And then aside from the talent drain, there was also Jayson Tatum getting COVID. You had Jalen Brown getting injured towards the end of the year, Kemba Walker dealing with injuries essentially all year. Even Marcus Smart was injured for a little bit, And I just don't know what else was he supposed to do with this roster and there are maybe his biggest blemish is when you look at the past few years, is the stuff about him trying to force feed Gordon Hayward down like the throats of his teammates and if that was actually a problem. But you even date back to like just years, all the injuries they've dealt with, and then they were even you know, the season where you had Terrier's year and Marcus Morris in addition to Jayson Tatum and Jalen Brown taking on larger roles. Those other two guys are playing for their next contract. And in the backdrop of all this is, oh, you have Warford, you have Cover, you have Hayward. I just don't you know. I'm I feel like he's become a meme because of the one pole that was tweeted out about would you rather have your choice of player as a building block or Brad Stevens whatever the actual poll was. I can't believe I forgot what the verbatim was at this point. So has he become as a coach at least? Has he become underrated at this point? It's weird, but I I feel like what's happening is that, like on the Twitter discoorse, a lot of it is like polluted and goes off of like game to game analysis. So I do feel like on that specific medium there is a bit of like over overheating, which I think a lot of it comes from the fact that Mannis at one point tweeted that he'd rather have Brad Stephens Lebron James. I think that has done irreparable harm to Brad Stevens reputation on the Twitter space, because that's obviously an unfair standard to live up to. But I actually agree with like everything you said. But at the same time, as a fan, I did kind of film myself wondering like, is was it kind of time for a coaching change? I mean it just from my point of view from the outside, I'm not you know, some plugged in guy. It didn't really seem like one. There was a lot of like change game like season the season with his offense, for example, he kind of he runs like very basic sets that are basically based on it's essentially without getting too much in the weeds, a lot of it is like players make decisions, player options, and what happens is if players choose to they can turn it into like just an isolation play at any time. Most of the time, so like simple sets like horns and stuff like that can generate into pick and rolls, which they can generate into you know, like taking hunting mismatches. I saw blah blah blah, and I really didn't think he did that great of a job offensively, like getting getting more off on movements for some of his supporting casts utilize a little bit more people on the floor. I mean, part of the reason Gordon Habert left was because you know, he spent a lot of time on offense standing in the corner. And we're talking about you know, like a six six six seven combo wing who can pass create be like the fact of point guard, and you have him sitting on the corner while Marcus Smart is running pick and rolls with Daniel Tys. You know, like that's like like that's the problem, it really is, And I think we do there was there was a time for now a new mind to kind of come in and kind of like see if we can because I honestly believe the Celtics have much more talent than what they showed. I think certain players that kind that came on at the end of the year, like aaron Ni Smith, uh Romeo Lank for the lay edition, Evan Fournier, they're actually really offensively versatile pieces. But the way Brad Stevens kind of ran the offense. It was almost like, if you're not you know, Kemba Walker, Dayson Tatum or Jaylen Brown, you're mostly getting your points off of just spotting up. And I think they have enough talent to utilize that a little bit better. And this year was definitely disappointing about the defense. So I side with you more that that was a lot more about this year in general, as opposed to it being an indictment on how he on his uh on on his defensive principles where I think it's where I think was the strongest point in the code of his strongest point as a coach. So long story short, I think he was a good coach. I think if he wanted to come back, he could come back like instantly. But I did also feel like there are there are there are ways where a better coach could end up lifting this team much higher than what appears to be their ceiling at this point. I guess maybe uh And I don't mean to displace the blame onto like non Celtics fense or basketball people. It does, like you said, it feels like that tweet for man exit irreparable damage to how we to how we view him where the media probably propped him up too much, and then like when something immediately went wrong, there was that impetus to want to drag him all the way down. And so as always there's there's a happy medium that no one really wants to exist in. These days. We had talked, we were hoping that there'd be more updates on the coaching search. By now there have not been. There's just been like cursory names mentioned, so you don't have to go into those unless there's a name that you are looking at. I'm more curious is to see, like what would you expect from Stevens. Do you think he's gonna you know, will he be looking at his assistant staff and immediately the name there is like Jay Laranaga, Or do you see will he go a little bit more outside the box where you know, will it be looking at a college coach? Will he be looking more inside the box that maybe a bigger name that you know, seeing like Terry Stotts is available. Now does Mike D'Antoni speak his way into this at all? Do you have any guests? Since I don't think anyone really has a real feel for worse direction, they'll go in or anything that you're hoping or expecting to see from Boston during this coaching search. Yeah. Well, the one thing I would say about Stevens which makes us very fun, is that he had a really diverse coaching staff. I mean he had, you know, guys from you know, Darren Erman had came in and coached the G League team, Jerome Allen who's coached at the college level, Kara Lawson, who I think I want to talk about a little bit later, Alison Feaster, Scott Morrison, Jaylor and Ego who's when it interviewed at a couple of different places. Michael Shrewsberry who's now a head coach and at college. So he has a lot of diversity and his coaching staff and people that come from all the different tracks, like Scott Morrison was a guy that's been there since Doc Rivers was here, and you know, like a guy like Darren Erman was a lawyer who with kid who would like turn in you like, people know Theren Irmin know his story. So my point with this is that Brad, I think it's gonna be really open minded about the process. He's going to give a lot of different people chances, even people that no one in the media is talking about right now. It's my it's my assumption, but I do think he wants to make a decision really quick on it, and I and the one thing I think is what's you know been reported and I think it's fair enough to say, is that I do think Boston is going to aim to hire a minority candidate for this coaching position. I would probably tend to agree with you there too, And I'm assuming like this is a situation where I would expect them to have one in place well before the draft, and not because the draft is super important to them, but just because like of all the offseason prep work that they need to get into. Yeah, exactly, and part of that, you know, It's why I actually think that the person that might end up being their coach has actually already been a coach with the team already. What would make what would make a ton of sense there, And it would be cool to see Carol Lawson get an NBAHA coaching job. I'm assuming. I think the assumption too, is that she's going to at least get if they're actually going to cast a net, that she will be among the candidates who are interviewed. I would be a little bit surprised if she wasn't. Yeah, I do believe it was reported that she at least get an interview. There hasn't really been anything out right now about like someone leading the search and not leading the search. It was interesting that Jason Kidd withdrew his name from Portland, so I think those were due to issues that existed outside of basketball. But I do, I mean all things aside. If I had to pick a name for the Celtics, I really do think Carol Lawson checks all the boxes. One from just like a superficial pr optics point of view, it'd be a pie. It'd be a pioneer decision, like it'd be the first woman and she and she'd be a black African woman coming from the team that had the first black head coach in the first black starting vibe. It's a nice it's it's it's a neat little boat that can help I think rebrand kind of like the reputation that they've kind of had that that Kyrie kind of poked that during during the Restaground series, and something that the Celtics know is is is a sensitive topic for them and has cost them free agents before, so I think off top that that that would be a huge check mark. Then on top of that, I mean if you, if anyone has ever listened to krelass and speak, And I don't mean just in terms of media, just like how she talks about basketball. She sounds like Brad Stevens to the tea, like a clone, like honestly, like oh like, oh, like a female version of Brad Stevens. Like that's how she talks. He's very mechanical, she's very like process oriented, next step at a time, put one foot forward to the other. And she does a really good job commanding a room and the closest, you know, my dadd used to always say, familiarity is the closest ingredient to trust. And you and I wonder, you know, like Brad Stevens wanting wanting to get a coach in before you know, like the draft and a bunch of their phasions this didn't have to come in, but you know, also wanting to have somebody that can like help transition and maybe you know, even potentially keep most of his staff because she was also part of that staff. And I know guys like you know, like Alison Feaster, who's another woman on our staff who's gotten a lot or brave reviews. She probably wanted to keep her Jerome Allen, Jay Larenega, Scott Markston if he still wants to stay. That's another consideration that might actually boost Kara loss in the fact that Brad probably doesn't want to fire his coaching Stapp or let another coach come in and change his whole coaching Stapp and Kara might be the Karen might be the person where she's gonna be She's gonna be strong enough of a leader where she's not gonna basically act as like Brad's puppet like. People will know that she's having her own opinions, but there's still enough familiarity there where the team doesn't feel like they're going through like a whole different facelift, or or he's Brad's at the risk of bringing in someone that doesn't necessarily doesn't necessarily listen to him or see the game the same way as he does, which could impact, you know, how the free agents and draft picks he brings in perform. So I would I would, honestly, I would honestly think that Kara Lasson is in prime position. It's only just gonna be a matter of are the Celtics willing to, you know, put that spotlight on her and she willing to be in that spotlight because it's obviously going to be a massive story if that were to happen. Yeah, And I could imagine, and I could imagine there were probably some people at Duke who are very nervous about listening to you talk like this the entire time. I don't know that I would remember an occasion or like an instance where someone took such a high profile job and then left it, but obviously for a better one, just so quickly when you're looking at the collegiate ranks. So that would be another interesting element of all this. Oh yeah, yeah, and I mean yeah, like I mean, like another candidate, John Howard, he just you know, he's become like a folk hero there at Michigan already. That would be huge. And I don't know, he's been aboved in a couple of searches, so I think it's fair to say he's definitely looking for an MBA position. Jerry Stackhouse another guy who did some really good work with Vanderbilt. I really like, I mean, part of the reason why I loved Aaron E. Smith was how many like NBA SEPs that house had him running in Vanderbilt, And I think he's a very smart basketball mind. But I don't know, I don't know. I don't necessarily know how if if he's gonna get a fair shake this time, just because you know, I still think people are people are still waiting. I think there's like some personal stuff there with him first that he has to get over. But yeah, there's gonna be a lot of interesting names, like from college, from the NBA ranks. It's gonna be really interesting. I really don't know who Brad is gonna go with. I don't know who the Celtics want to go with, And so much of it also comes to who Brad is gonna be as a president of basketball operations, which kind of makes this nervous but like exciting because you kind of felt like you kind of had an idea of what Ain't wanted to do with a lot of stuff. Most of the time, he's conservative, he wants to make the best possible moves. He's not gonna pay more than he has to, even if he has the ability to, which you know, has been a big demo of how he handled the Brooklyn picks and stuff like that. So it's it's just very principled. And we don't really know how Bright is going to be like that because he's he's he's been a coach for eight years and even before that, those guys are built to win. Now is he gonna how quickly is he gonna be able to switch that process from winning the day so you know, winning the next three to four years. So it's all it's all very interesting to see. I'm also curious to see how he deals with evaluating players as assets. And I don't want that to be confused as like property or commodities, because they're players humans, but there are going to like you have to make trades. He coached so many of these guys, some of them for very long times. I'm just curious like how he's gonna view them. And Marcus Smart might be the big one, someone who's extension eligible and you get to the point of looking at their capstion moving forward. They could try and extend him for seventeen point two million as a starting point in the first year that new deal. Does he accept that? Is that enough to keep him? Is that too much? The Celtics want to pay him. He's all of a sudden kind of thrust into like this weird decision making process, and I would imagine he has to be attached to. I mean, you look at the core of this team Jalen, Jason Tatum and Marcus Smart, like those players specifically, you would have to imagine he's attached to. And so I'm very curious to see how willing he's going to be to shuffle the roster over the offseason. I know that the Celtics aren't too flexible. They start out the year essentially in the luxury tax before even factoring in what they want to do with in Evan Fournier. So there's they're limited in theory, but you can always make trades. I'm just wondering, could it be like, does he trust this roster a little bit more than a brand new executive would or is he gonna be willing to, you know, take a stick of dynamite if that's what needs to be done. Yeah, well, I think I think before even that the important thing a big decision is we're gonna learn a lot about the Celtics owners strip this off season, because it looks like if they were to keep like if they just try to keep everybody together like the same exact team. They're gonna be in the luxury tax for like a little bit over forty million dollars. We have no idea if that if that team is, if the Celtics ownership is willing to pay any tax at all. They haven't really been tested. We know this this season. I guess last season now for them, they traded Daniel It's tights one hundred percent because of to cap. It was it was a cat move period. It was just to get under the tacks and that was a move that made their team worse overall, and it came up really hurt. It hurt really bad when Rob Williams was injured in the playoffs and they didn't and they had to play Grant Williams at the five because they had no other options. So we have to see first there if they're if they're gonna be a team, they're gonna be an ownership group that says okay, we're gonna we're gonna go into the tacks, We're okay going to the attacks. Then that becomes a very interesting story about what you're Tom Brad Stevens. So then he actually has the ability to extend Marcus Smart even maybe Rob Williams and then the Fournier as well. But if the team doesn't want to actually go into a taxi to trying to act like avoid it, the flip side of this is now he might have to start thinking about trading Kemba Walker and Mark gut Smart at the same time, and how how he communicates and navigates. I think either way it's gonna be it's gonna be very interesting and telling to see because as as we're learning, like a as players get more empowered, it's not just how you presented them to get in the door, how they're how they get how they get exited as well. It's very important. The Celtics suffered and irreparable harm and reputation to the way they handled the Isiah Thomas train. Even though any NBA fan or analysts would have done that trade one hundred percent of the time. It's the human side of it where the Celtics had failed. And I mean, you know, like Anthony Davis didn't want to come to Boston because in part because of that in some way, whether it was like five percent or ninety percent, like that mattered to the to a plan that Danny wanted to put together for three years. It mattered how he handled, how he how he was so cut the road. So I'm gonna see it's gonna be interesting if Brad can kind of you know, whether it's negotiating an extension or dealing somebody, whether he's going to be able to do that and kind of like a kind and a kind way that doesn't make people feel like they want to burn the bridge when it's done. So I'm so yeah. I mean, like I'm very interested in Rabbit. I don't know what his job is gonna be this offseason. I don't know if it's gonna be a job of clearing house which would you know with with Mike Zarian that's right where Hill sign, or it's gonna be about reloading and how to how to maximize the little flexibility that he has. So I mean, that's a big question to see it going forward. So this was and I had, like it's probably better to talk abate from a macro view rather than I had like specific questions about the you know, Kemba and the market smart extension and those kind of this What would you do? What would be your preference for this team? Are you you know, the first one be are you trying to shop Kemba? Like, would you want would you expect Kemba to be on this team next season? No, really, I don't. I don't. I don't. I think, Okay, so I'll put it this way. I think if the cell, if it was up to the Celtics, he wouldn't have even been on this team last year. Wow, I think that. I don't. I don't. I don't think that, which you know. I mean, I'm trying to be careful here, but I just don't think that the team sees him as a fit as much with the Jay's Like from a human perspective, from a person I perspective, there's no like Kemba is implappable, Like he's a great guy to have around, he's a great teammate. Nobody has a bad word to say about him. But I think, you know, you're looking at a guy that's you know, like six foot maybe ball dominant guard who after you know, not having a lot of jury history. And Charlotte came to Boston and from like the first year, it's been a lot of nagging stuff. It's stuff that you know the team is putting on a brave face, like you know, Brad Stevens had made some comments that, oh, you know, like he's injury in the plafficmore bone bruise, which you know now that he's a GM, we have no idea whether he those comments being completely a different thing now, we don't know whether that's actually true or whether you know, he was thinking about down the line how he's gonna deal him and I's gonna talk about that stuff. So from my point of view, I think the team has no idea how he is anymore. They hope for the best, but they don't expect the best. And I think and I think they want to trade him. I don't know who who will take him and can they can they used zis they might be willing to give you exactly and then yeah, but then that's the other thing. If you make it feel like that, are you okay one paying and still kind of being in the tacks? Are you looking at are you are you looking to trade him and hope of actually finding a third star? Are you looking to trade him in hopes of saving money? That's that's that's another thing which again kind of comes back to, you know, like the season ownership. But I do think either way, they do want to They do want to trade him. I just think at this stage they don't really see I don't think the fit is there. As the Jays get better, and with the injury history hisself, he just he doesn't mesch the timeline anymore. It's I think they'd like to get younger and maybe find a better complimentary third piece. So I don't think he'd be on the team. And Marcus Martin, I'm probably like fifty fifty on. Yeah, he's would you extend him at that number? I believe they could start him at seventeen point two million, No, you wouldn't. Would you pay him what he's gonna next season, which is fourteen point three a little bit more than that? Yeah, because I mean right now, he kind of he's stagnated as an offensive player. Back then, when that contract was there, there was at least like a slight hope like, hey, you know, he's still kind of on a track with like Kyle Lowry, where you know he's the sort of have his like backup, like kind of like role player guards, you know, develop up their three point shot. Even though his contract here last time was horrendous and this year he wasn't necessarily that great at a shooter either, but I just think, you know, like he's gotten better at finishing, he's gotten better at learning how to draw some vouls, but his best skill is his playmaking. And he just doesn't want to believe that. He clearly wants to be a scorer. And it's part of the reason, you know, Like in part I did blame Brass Team's offense to this, but like a part of the reason why his offense can be like that is because it gives players like Marcus smart like and out to just kind of seek their own offense when they want. And there were so many nights when it's like if either one of like Kemball or Jaylen is out instead of his role, instead of seeing his role as all right, I got up my playmaking and help everyone get involved in and stuff like that, he sees himself like, Okay, now I got to replace those twenty shots myself and and maybe like a thirty thirty year old, thirty one year old Marcus whose seasoned and kind of understands his role would be perfect for the team. And the guy even I would consider paying paying like his like mac ascential value but the guy who he wants to be right, he's still trying to figure out who he is right now and and that, and during that process it's not it's at times it could be a not great fit with the Jays. So personally, I don't know if I wanted to keep him, I lean I change a lot from day to day just because of the fact that he is still like, you know, like he's still in that positive He does a lot of things that impact winning. A lot of the dirty work that you know, like your stars don't want to do, he still does that. He's still a very respective He's still a very respective person in that organization and more importantly, in that city. He's he's pretty much a de facto captain. He's been here as long as Brad has, so that stuff doesn't matter. But at some point, like you can't, you can't let a resume keep somebody at a job if that's not if they're not doing their job at the best that they can. And I think with Marcus Smart, there's a little bit of that where there's an emotional attachment to him, but that emotional attachment is outweighing what he's providing the Celtics on the court. So personally I would I would I would look to deal him because I actually think you can get like positive value for him, Like you have a better option of finding a third piece to fit the Jay's trading Marcus that you do with Kevabo. To be honest, yeah, I'd be curious to see what has to happen in a Kemba trade because it's I don't I don't think you want to be in a position where you have to attach something to him. And he has two years and seventy two point six million left on his deal I think, or seventy three point six whatever that number is. But you also you know, if it's going to be a challenge trade or you end up taking back a bad player or another bad contract that doesn't his at least has a light at the end of the tunnel, maybe well not, maybe there's two years left on it. So I'd just be curious as to what happens in that situation. And you know, he is theoretically really important to this team when he's healthy, So are you're even willing to just you know, what if the Knicks came along and offered to take into to cap space. If you're planning on it seems like you're kind of leaning towards like, hey, let's really kind of red not maybe not an entire rebuild, and you can only rebuild so much because Jen Brown and Jason Tatum make you so good on their own, but it seems like you do lean towards them making some substantive changes. Would you do that, Like if someone just came along or was offering strictly capitally for expiring contracts for Kemba Walker, Is that something that you're at the point of doing right now? Yeah, because I think with that you could do something like create create a trader Trader player exception, which the Celtics are pretty good at that you could do so for example, like you could do that, create a create like a thirty three thirty four million Trader player exception, and then one like you could go to see like let's see what happens at the Wizards, let's see what happens with Dame. If you were willing to, you could you know, be like, Okay, look, we can take Rally Bill and Tos Tpe and we'll obviously you have to trade somebody, like for example, in that scenario like Jaylen Brown, or you could go another route. You could use that TPE and then go to OKAC bring bring out a Horford back. You still have eleven million from the other TV for Gordon Hayward. Use that and maybe you have to attach like a draft or something like that, bring in another piece and then you know what I mean, Like there's like there's ways to retool it and use it. So I don't think they would actually be completely against that at all, because I think they would see that it's like, all right, we have an asset here. The last one we used to sign Evan Fournier. We got his bread rights, were able to keep him. He seems like like like a woman shooter, the perfect compliments of the Jay's. Now let's try to find like, you know, like a playmaking guard or something like that, or you know, like a big like a four to five that can you know, be a good small ball five when we need him to, but also play alongside Rob and the starting lineup. Maybe that guy's like a John Collins for example. I don't know, I don't know, but I do think I do think they'd be interested in something like that just because of that kind of that's of a flexibility that it could offer them, and it's much better than potentially being saddled was like bad contracts on multiple years were example, you know what I mean. So yeah, I mean essentially not like if if it's if it's if it's give Kemba to the Knicks and get a thirty three million TV exception or send him to Dallas and deal with Chris asport zingis. I don't know, I think, yeah, exactly, I'd rather have that exactly. So yeah, So to answer, yeah, I would definitely like I think a deal like that would be would be a pretty happy, uh medium for the Celtics. All I could say is hypothetically ri ip to Kemba's knees if he ever ends up playing for TIBs. Yeah. So a couple of questions for more questions I get out of here, Whether the Celtics paid attacks, whether they sort of you know, trade away pieces. The youngsters on this team, the the the picks that were assets that all of a sudden turned into players. They're they're all, We're not there all but a handful of them, like have to become important. You need to hit on these or you need them to contribute at least through next year. So of that, you know, we know what when he's healthy, what Robert Williams has become. But if you have any thoughts on him, I welcome those. I will say, as someone who is not watching only the Celtics and choppering in for games here and there, he seemed he got so much better this year, it really felt like and there were just moments even when he was injured where it looked like his one on one defense was a lot better, which is huge for them because they gave away Daniel Tye for nothing and there's you know, sort of his void at the center position right now if he's not going to be it. But you also have Pritchard, Nie Smith and Langford. So I'm just curious as to who you view aside from Robert Williams, unless you don't view him, is the most important. But who you view is the most important. From that bunch, any thoughts or takeaways you have on them, hopes you have for them moving forward? Oh yeah, percent it's Rob. I mean, I think Rob is a unicorn, honestly, Like he's a rim running big who can pass. And I don't mean like like it's not even passed like the way it Clinkopello learned how to like hit the corners on the short roll. It's like he manipulates and he can like he can like be going up for an alley, you cast the ball to one hand and find a guy at the top of the key and like it's things that like it's like flashes of Yoga. He's not Yoga. I'm not saying that, but it's like he makes like creative passes like that along with being able to make like a simple reasons. So like player types like that are not usually like high i Q guys that you can even like run run sets through, you know what I mean. So I think he's he's special and has a chance to you know, one one he compliments the Jay's right, he like like Evans, so like he'll be a great kind of piece to go along with like the Jays. And if they have like one a playmaker at at the point guard spot, a law threat, a vertical threat, like someone that's gonna sink the defense. He's someone that they can play through, like like you could run da Joes from the elbow, uh pick and pops. He can hits a short roll and stuff like that. So I think he's I think he's by far like the best young ass that they have, and they would be smart to lock him up. I think I think his injuries are gonna kind of like sour like his his his or year average. But I think something like four years forty mil where he's making around mL money, which seems to be the going rate for like start like start up quality bigs something like that, with maybe some potential bonuses if he hits like the game's played threshold and stuff like that that I believe. I believe the books is can only go up to like fifteen percent, so something like that, where like it could potentially make him like twelve million a year. I will say, and sorry interrupting. What might be an interesting barometer for him is what Rashawn Holmes ends up getting in free agency this year. They are different players, but like they are kind of similar in what they can do on offense. For Shawn Holmes isn't the same passer, but he has a little bit better A Flowers, like if if he's someone who gets fourteen or sixteen million, and you're Robert Williams, you might be looking at that. And if to sell Eltics come and look, if you can get him for even four and forty eight, I'm like, extend him on the spot. I don't know what the number is right extent, but he might look at that and be like, you know what, I'll just take my chances in restricting free agency. So Rashaun Holmes might be the brohmter for like these future bigs that are even you know, even some veterans where it's like a Clint Capello who's two years out sort of looking at, well, what's the market going to be for me when I get out there? That'll be just a number that I'm watching like a vulture this summer. Sorry to interrupts you there, Oh no, no, but it's a good point because that is that is a good rammer for him to watch his value. But I also think the Celtics, like to a certain extent, like they're not they're not held over the barrel in the way they were held over the barrel for like facing Tatum's extension, but and at certain extent, like you kind of need these have a contracts. It's been a problem for the Celtics. They always had either guys make him backs money or gods somene where he contracts, and it hurts their ability to like make trades, like honestly almost like being being too good at contract the valuation where it's like we value you highly, or like we value like right here. And I think having a guy like Rob like twelve thirteen million and having got like Smart twelve million, having got like having Fournier with his extension, maybe that's like, you know, maybe that's a little bit higher like fifteen, but between fifteen eighteen million or something like that. Those are kind of like the pieces that you need where you're kind of put together trades for like the next star that might become available. So I think, outside of the fact that he is a good player, I do think that they might be interested in doing and maybe doing a slight over pay just to have that asset. Oh but to answer like your previous questions, outside of Rob, I actually think the second most important young player is going to be Romeo lank Verge. Yes, yes, I'm so happy you said that. I was prepared to riff about Romeo Langford myself. I'm sorry for interrupting you again. I'm just super stoked. No, No, it's great because like I was watching because obviously like he spent the first two years like being really injured, and he spent like, you know, like his first his only year in Indiana, like trying to play through an injury, which hurt his draft stoff. But I mean, this is a guy who legit has ball handling ability, can was legit like a shot creator all high school and all college, and I think right now it's just crazy to see him win minutes and get on the court because of his deepens. So that's just not really who we saw him as. But you know, the Celtics are able to get him as Deepens the player. We kind of saw what he could what he could do when his jump shot is hitting. I think in their last game he had seventeen kind of reminded me of It's not a perfect comparison, but his offensive roll kind of felt like Loue Dortish in a way where it's like he's kind of like he's really active, he's looking for cutters. The jump shot is not there, but like when it when it's there, like it's there, and then he's just a crazy defender who's gonna guard four or five different people, have no problem by ending over screens, chasing ninety four It kind of reminds me a little bit of like Blue Dorton that way. Granted he's not built like a tank in that way, but just kind of like roll Roll And that's a good bit with the Jas, there's some of that's gonna run around do crazy things. Another another person could be like a PJ. Tucker esh role, Like they might actually have that piece already on their team and they did give him another year, Like this is actually gonna be his first off season in the NBA where he's not recovering from an injury and he's actually gonna get a summer league, you know what I mean. Like I think I think he has the chance to surprise the most people, Like he has a chance next year to come in and be like some of that just instantly makes an impact off their second unit that you know, most people aren't going to realize. So I would say I would say he's second. Nie Smith is third, just because I say this offseason he's gonna get used to the NBA three pointer. I think it threw him off after coming off his entry in Vanderbilt, just coming here no summer league. There was there was no g league red clause during the first half of the year where he could have maybe been in the bubble working on the team, like get like getting used to that range. But you know, he figured out how to get on the court on the defensive end, which was huge because a lot of a lot of the people that were negative on him coming out of the draft was like all he can really do is shooting, nothing else. The fact that he became an asset to the team as a defender, as a firstal defender speaks volumes and then you know, like as he gets something with his jump shot. I kind of saw like a little bit of like a Gary Trent role for him, where I don't know if he's explosive as are as a scorer as Gary Trent has become, but kind of like those first years when Gary Treand was making a name for himself in Portland where he was just kind of a guy where he was. He fouled too much at first, but then he figured it out. He started he started becoming a good pressure release for Dames as a as a spot up shooter, and as he got more confident, like the rest of his game starting to come out. And I think that's a path that Aaron Nesmith could follow up. And then the last is Payton Pritcher, who I think was was the rookie who first came and first made an impact for the team that looked like m be the best. I think some of the stuff to like his size, some of his decision making, like taking taking those thirty foot threes are really cool and they're good and they look really nice when they go in, but just knowing when take them is also another skill. And there's a lot of times where you know, like when you're on the court of like Jason Tatum Man, you know, like the team, the team needs us, bucket, and you're coming off one pick and roll of like twenty one on the shot lock and pulling up from thirty and you're like, you're a rookie, that's you know, that's that's that's not gonna win. You trust with your teammates. So there are things I like about him. I think he's quicker than people realize, which is, you know what they say about every white guy. He's able to like, I feel like he's able to get in the pain, but his size doesn't necessarily allow him to do much when he gets there. He's one of those guys that's gonna have to learn how to like anticipate where the cholastic defense and make the reads before they get there, which is something that you know, like when he gets adjusted to NBH do something he could be better at. So he's the guy who I think like could end up end up being like the most productive one next year. But in terms of like long term value and in terms of like you know, bits and long term projections, I think he's the last one in terms of core pieces because unless you're projecting him to be a starting point guard, you don't waste a lot of like investment time and player development capital on backup point guards. There's just too many of them in the league. So he wouldn't He would need to substantially change his ceiling for me to have like any interest beyond him just potentially being a role piece. I think I'm with you in lockstep with your packing order. I might only consider Nie Smith above Langford because they're all of a sudden you have to make like a contract, like an extension decision on him fairly soon, but they're his defense. Really towards the end of the season two kind of blew me away, and there was this it was granted it was in the fourth quarter of a blowout game too, but there was just this nets play at the beginning of fourth and there was needed to be like a basically a triple switch when I think had Harden had the ball, Harris and Claxon are involved in the action, and then you had Tristan Thompson, Nie Smith and Langford and just the IQ of Nie Smith and Langford on that play together knowing like how and the communication was there, but it was just like it blew my mind. And then Langford specifically you mentioned lu dor which is, you know, if he's about Ludoran offense, the thing about him on defense that really differs. He feels like just so smart away from the ball now too. And I don't know if it helped that he wasn't playing much over there to two years, but he seems to know how to use like spacing and angles when he's not covering guys who were necessarily pinballing around the quarter or have the ball in their hands. So I think I'm just most intrigued by his ceiling. I'm curious how valuable the Celtics view him, just internally knowing like, Okay, he's now he's two years in. I guess next season just ends up being an absolutely huge year for him in terms of how they his development obviously, but also how they evaluate him against their future. Yeah, exactly, And I mean I know they like him a lot, and just thing a thing with a thing with Langford, which that what you're hitting on, which I think it's really helped. Like his feel for the game is actually like really really high, and it's something that Brad Stevens noted like after just like his first practice with the team, And like you're saying, like a theme for me going to this offseason is I want the team to think about team building within the concept of who compliments Jason Tatum, Dalen Brown the best. So how I evaluate these players, it's just how they compliment him and how they compliment them. And I think a guy like Romeo Langford is because of his field for the game. It's not just that, you know, it's not just that he has the potential to be like a like a like a creator as a score. It's also he's one of the old guys like that you see like actually making timely cuts to the basket, knowing how to move level with the ball, handler when they're driving to the rim, knowing how to like just knowing where to be at all times. And he reads kind of the game like with a guard, like he sees he sees the floor in a way that I think helps him in terms of projecting like how how much better he can be even though you know it's still going to start with the jump shot, though he does have to become as a competent spott up guy for a lot of the rest of his game and talent to be able to open up. My final question is, so what does the ideal offseason look like if you're, for you just looking up Boston, Like, what would you want to see them do? Maybe it's aside from the which head coach they choose, but like if you had to identify like a specific you know, is it you want them to move? CANBA move smart, capitalize on those assets? And then there's you know, go from there, maybe reload to be more aggressive two twenty two or what kind of direction? What are what are you just hoping to see from them on that functional team building level this offseason? Yeah, I'm I'm I'm hoping to see like a little bit of a reset where honestly, it might. It might actually hurt going into the next year. They might actually be like a little bit less team. But I'm actually hoping like one day pick like a smart a smart new coach that you know, like as a fresh new voice that's gonna have kind of different ideas of how to run basketball. I want them to kind of if the owners if if ownership is good with uh using going into attack stuff like that, I'd like them to use their TPE and maybe bring in someone like someone like a four or five that you know, a guy like I said earlier, can can start alongside Rob and then also play small ball five. The reason they signed Jabari Parkers because they're definitely looking for that piece because it's a good compliment to the Jays that way. Granted, Jabarri are the guys in the roster right now who we're gonna go for it. But I don't have high hopes on either of them, to be honest. So if they could get like a Vet or someone new who could actually do that role, that would be good. Resigning resigning Evan Corniers is pretty important to me. I know somethings, you know, I'm not sure it's worth it. But to me, I think his shooting, his floors facing, just just like his VET savvy and stuff like that, it seemed like a pretty good compliment to the to the Jay, So I'd want him to stay and then from there, you know, like I hope they don't have to attach this year's draft pick to move off of anybody, because I actually like where they are this year with the draft and they actually have a chance to draft somebody who could be a role player for them on and you know, when you're a tax team, chief chief talent means a lot more to you. So I so I hope they don't have to I don't I hope they don't have to trade their draft pick to get off any money. Then, you know, like if they go into if they couldn't come into this year. Oh oh, one more thing I don't want take back is that? What is that where this is going? Absolutely not, But I do want to dissitate them to not play in the Olympics. I think that's important. I would I would, I would, I would prefer him to take this rest because I mean, then you know, like then with this offseason, I do I know, I do want to say trade, trade Kevin Marcus, But I don't know if I need that to be to be part of my dream scenario. I think I could be okay even if they saved for this year, you come in again. I like a full off season, fully rested. It's it's it's more normal. Now you have Evan for the full year, a guy like Rob is uh locked up, you have a new coach that's going to be able to bring in new things, another year development for Romeo and Nate Smith, and maybe you bring in like a vet like another bet On to bring off the bench. We'll see what they do with Tristan Thompson. But either way, like him or like some other big, it's very easy to get back up big. So it's not something that I lose a lot of sleepover. And then I think, like you could really make an argument like if you don't get hit with the COVID the way you got hit in a more normal setting, within more normal like development process, like maybe you're actually like a you know, like a forty nine fifty win team instead of what I think what they projected as in a forty one forty two win team, And the difference between like forty two one team and a forty nine win team is the forty nine win team could be like the huck straight now who has to play the Knicks in the first round and got a chance to battle six or team with their best player hobbled, and they have a chance to make a row series and potentially get to the Eaton Conference Final. It's not saying that's likely, So it might sound like, oh, well, a fifty win team is still in NBA purgatory. About like when you start considering the seedings and the reality that that stuff can happen, you're still good enough where you're in a position where you can get home court and benefit from potential. Look like James Harden just went down with the handstring and drew out of nowhere, So I would I think there's an argument for them to like kind of like load up a little bit, rest up, and try it again. Though I would be just as interested in like maybe like a cap a cap reset where they maybe where they're maybe worse off this year, but they can be role players in the next offseason. So whichever one. But obviously, as a as a fan who follows them day to day, the one where they're winning more would be better for my health. Yeah, I am. I honestly don't know what direction they're gonna choose. The Evan Fournier future will probably be for me, at least from a distance, just the bell weather for where they like, if they let him walk, then it's just gonna seem like, Okay, well, next year is not about I'm trying to win as much as possible. And maybe they're looking at the East thinking, okay, Hawks, Sixers, Bucks, Nets, what if the Knick signed somebody, what if the Pacers are healthy, what if the heater back, Like maybe they do try and take that contrived step back to load up again in twenty twenty two or something. But that's the you know, unless we get a Kemba deal before, like announced around the draft first. But I'm looking towards free agency and Evan Fournier because if they just let him walk, I do feel like it's sort of the implication would be that, all right, they they're not as concerned about making a push to come out of the East next year as they have been these this past half decade or so. Yeah, I agree with that, yeah exactly. So, Yeah, that's gonna be the big sign for a lot of people watching this obviousely it's gonna be how exactly they're they're they're moving, because if it becomes Evan Fournier is not even being offered a contract at all, like I definitely expect to see a little bit of fireworks. So that means that they're trying like hell not to pay the tax and they can't do that without moving off at least one of Kemba or Marcus. So just know, like, if Evan is not being even considered, then which by which to you know, just just a side note, he does seem to have been settling pretty well in Massachusetts and I think that expectations is that they do resign him. But we'll see, we'll see, you never know. So I'm just interested to see how how it all unfold, because despite the limited cow flexibility, it's still actually really interesting year of part of the Celtics this offseason. Yet again, as always, you can follow the latest Evan Fournier and news by googling only his last name and hitting images for anyone who needs to do that. Alex, thank you so much for coming on and talking about this. I'm sure you know that I'm going to be bothering you after the offseason is over or before it's over, but after they've made all these moves, so we can sort of tackle the actual outlook with actual evidence. So I hope you will come back. I implore everyone to follow Alex on Twitter at ku n GU underscore NBA once more with feeling. Alex, thank you so much for coming on, and I'll be talking to you soon. Thanks a lot, and hopefully I can come on when Sharif Cooper is leading the Celtics and there's to their Summer League title this season, so I'm looking forward to that days in Boston. If you're harping on the Summer League title right now, all right, Dan, thanks for having me on. Man. All right, let's get started for all the many, many thousands upon thousands of people that are already in the hardwood Knox room. Okay, shout out to the one and only Noah. I am going solo this week because Adam frommel Is as I've mentioned many times before, a trader. Any live questions that you want to ask, feel free, we'll get to them. I'm gonna try to make this a little bit shorter because we're all trying to enjoy Clippers and Mavericks right now. But also we have as you've all just listened to if you're listening to this via the podcast, we just had that had Alska congu on to talk about from Celtics. So we're gonna try and keep this little brief. But we did have a bunch of questions from rail Beck, so we'll get to that first. Might as well start with Noah's since he's here, He asked, is there a potential rivalry in the work here between the Knicks and the Hawks coming on the heels of them beating the Knicks in five games? It's possible. I don't know how what your thoughts are on that one, Noah, I would say maybe Trey Young seems to have become the NBA's biggest heel at the moment. He was even basking sort of in it during Game one against the Sixers, So it seems like he's becoming one of the NBA's bigger villains at the moment, which one, I think is fantastic for the game, and two, it opens the door for some sort of rivalries. I kind of think though that for the Knicks Hawks thing to be a rivalry either, that series needed to have been a classic, which you know it was not or the Knicks still need that star to go punch for punch with him, and it wasn't Julius Randall in that series. And so maybe if a certain someone whose name rhymes which Mamian Pillard ends up in New York, that gives Trey Young someone to go head to head against. But really, mostly I think that the series just wasn't didn't end up being enough of a classic for this to be something that people are going to look forward to, you know, in the regular season seeing them play three or four times, or even waiting for the next playoff series, you probably want to see two teams that are on a closer level or again, just how that start to go opposite. Noah says Dame won't end up in New York. I kind of agree, just because I'll be a little bit surprised if the Blazers trade him. But I also what people aren't talking about enough is if Dame wants to leave Portland to have a better chance at winning, that's not New York right now, and I don't think that's a spicy take. Damian Lord and Julius Randall is a core that works, but is Damian is it better than Damian Lillard and see McCollum, plus the supporting cast that Portland's put together with Robert Covington specifically, even use of Nurkics. It's so far as he wants to be there, which it doesn't sound like he wants to be there. I also shout out to him for I don't know, he has a non guaranteed contract for next season at money that's you know, more than reasonable for a starting center, and he was talking about like not coming back. He doesn't really have control over that. I'd like to think that he just didn't understand the language of his contract, not because he's an idiot, but because if I were an NBA player, I would one hundred percent not you know, look at the nuance of non guaranteed team option, earily termination option, player option. Still if the Damian Lillard stuffs since it is just kind of in the ether he wants Jason Kidd to coach the Blazers, Jason Kidd pulled his name out of the running for the Blazers. Whether or not you think that Jason Kidd deserves a chance at coaching again given his history, or deserve a chance in the first place, I don't think that Jason Kidd has proved he's a good head coach, you know. Aside from that, all that the domestic abuse stuff, and that's a different conversation where we have to get into redemption and do people have to atone publicly pro depending on what's actually happening. I would argue that atonement in this case needs to happen publicly just because coaching in the NBA. Working in the NBA is not a right. And for the victims to see their abusers if they're consuming this product, that could be really problematic for them. And if they're not seeing this person atone for what they did, or have to address it at all, I would imagine that puts more of a mental drain on them. Didn't expect to go down that Jason Kidd rabbit hole, but the Blazers anyway, they are gonna have to confront their future. And Noah says in the chat, CJ is gonna be the first to go. I think I agree. If it's between Dame or CJ. If that's what people are waiting for, then yes, CJ. Mccollumb is gonna The Blazers are gonna make another move with the roster before they trade Damian Lillard, who has four years left on his contract still, and so he can't. I admire what he said about how he would rather go down swinging in Portland than forge a super team. He can't. You know he's gonna catch ship, and rightfully so. If he has four years left on his deal and wants out after saying all that, I would understand it. But you don't get to play the card that heavily say what you did about Paul George and then turn around with four years left on your deal and one out, Which is why I actually don't think that he's going to request the trade. He was also giving input or is going to give input on the head coach. So why would you force your way out of this situation at the moment. What is interesting about the Blazers They've made these other moves and this is look. You can criticize neil' sha for what happened in twenty sixteen. I think it was signing Evan Turner matching the Allen Crab contract. Everybody between twenty and sixteen two and seventeen front offices teams seem to have lost their minds. Just with the revenue influx from the from the TV dollars. There were a lot of bad contracts, all of which are off the books now by this point, or this should be the last year of them if they were signed in twenty seventeen. I what they've decided to do essentially was keeps He Jane Dame together and try and futs and it'll make these, I don't want to say, really tiny improvements, but significant, not blockbuster improvements. Getting Robert Covington remaining in the Gordon Hayward not the Gordon Hayward, Aaron Gordon sweepstakes. I'm looking at a Celtics question right now and immediately went to Gordon Hayward. But so to sort of wrap up on that, they make these smaller moves, and they also kind of hold on to some of their younger guys. Zach Collins injury, by the way, not talked about enough. He said into restarch free agency. He was supposed to be an important part of their team these past few years, someone who could stretch the floor, which he did not prove he could do over a long period of time, and protect the ram and he was pretty good on defense, fairly mobile there too. Anthony Simons came on towards the end of this year. I feel like that happens every single year for him. But you've made these let's call them medium sized moves, and in doing so, now you don't have the assets to go out and make that blockbuster should another star become available, one that's an upgrade over CJ. McCollum. And that's what's really tough about this situation, regardless of what they've done, is C. McCollum is really good. It's when you were looking at the Bucks and Chris Middleton is better than C. McCollum in my eyes. But when you look at the Bucks before the Drew holiday trade you're talking about of Chris Middleton or some we're talking about Chris Midleton was an imperfect number two. I tended to disagree, but it was a conversation. What were you supposed to do to upgrade that situation? The Bucks they mortgage their future to the hilth, They went out and got through holiday time was on there like that. It was a perfect storm of circumstances. They were able to get out of it. But what were when people would talk about trading Chris Middleton are upgrading from Chris Middleton rather than addition to Chris Middleton. It's so hard to do that because you have to find a player who's available that is an upgrade over CJ. McCollum. How many players does that amount to? Honestly, how many players does that amount to? Probably, let's say let's say there are conservatively thirty to thirty five players who are better than CJ in the league. Maybe that's ambitious. You need one of them to become available. What are you then attaching to him? And so I think the move for the Blazers would have been James Harden if you really wanted to go all in. Could you have found a third team that wanted CEJ and then thrown in all the picks, thrown in whatever young players you had and beaten what they got from the nets? Now, probably not, but it would have to have been that type of situation. Could they technically still do that? Sure, But they've given up some of these other assets along the way, including you know, they're they're not first round pick strapped, but they have traded they treated this year's first round pick. I believe, I will I will confirm that, you know in a moment. But yeah, so that's what's really tough about the Blazers. But we have a speaker request from Noah. I'm assuming on this, So Noah, you're gonna have the talking stick. I believe right now. Hit it? Hey, Dan, how you do no? Are you there? Yes, I'm there, I can hear me, Yes, I can hear you. All right, Okay. So basically, when it comes to see J mccollin too, like, I feel like the Trail Blazers are in this weird involved which the talent of their players have basically the talent of Damon Lillard have made them overachieved for the last four years basically, And you know, I agree with your point where CJ. McCollum, you don't really have many upweights over him that aren't MVP caliber type talents. But in my whole thing going into this offseason is I'm looking at the Warriors, I'm looking at that pick, I'm looking at James Wiseman, I'm looking at the need for the Blazers to somewhat not rebuild totally, but retool and maybe get younger at certain positions. We don't know if you Submurkics is going to be their long term if they can get if they could get that pick flipping for something else, or even just get package that includes that pick, James Wiseman and maybe Kelly Ubre flip CJ McCollum and one of the other younger players. I don't see how that it could be in, you know, help for both teams, both the Warriors and the Blazes. To do a deal like that, that's interesting and I think it brings up also, like this just bigger point of can you justify trading CJ. McCollum for a return that possibly doesn't help you immediately, just because Wiseman still needs to develop whoever you would draft with that pick, which could also not convey into twenty twenty two. And I think that's the other dilemma they're in is if you trade Damian Lillard, Like, yes, you can enter a rebuild because you're gonna be rebuilding anyway, But if you trade CJ. McCullum, you almost in that situation, I would guess need a and he would help the Warriors a ton. Imagine Cji on the Warriors this past year, especially with the defense that they had in place. He might have been I wouldn't have made them, you know, one of the foremost title favorites, but they might have snuck into the title contention circle at that point. I just I think you would need a third team, would be my stance in that situation to send the Blazers something that helps them win now. And so I'm curious to to your thoughts on not just that, but like these overarching point of what do you do if you're the Blazers Because teams that you know, teams are gonna be interested in CJ McCollum and the three years and plus million dollars he is left on his deal. H They're probably not going to send you back a player that's an upgrade because they're not going to have that player to offer, and you're going to need to attach other stuff to see J if you actually want an upgrade. Otherwise you will be looking at the return that you just mentioned, which I'm just not sure you know what message are you sending to Dame in that scenario. I think personally for me, like I think the Blazers, they kind of it's it's it's in. They're in a weird spot where like they don't have the cap stas to go out and get somebody a free agency and their main assets that can be traded are few and far between, and if you do trade one of them, you're basically entering a rebuild mode in that So if they, if you were You're right, they have would have to be a three team trade. And like everyone's talking about the Knicks, and if they, if Dame would request the trade to the Knicks and the package it's said, it still would put Portland in a rebuilding situation. Let's say Damian Lillard for Julius Randall, Kevin Knox and a couple first round picks. That's still a rebuilding situation where now CJ. McCollum is your number one option. You know, I still think no matter who what move the Blazers do, as long as they keep Dame, they will still be better than anticipated, because that's just how good Damian Lillard has been in elevating this team. But at the same time, it's it's odd that they can, you know, try at this again next year and maybe hopefully add some defensive wings because they really do need, like a real wing that could offer more offensive power than Robert Covington did. Maybe you hope Anthony Simon's develops into more of a I can score off the bench role, but I don't think that will ever happen. But at the same time, I still think that more most likely we'll see the Blazers just try and run it back with this same same team with a little retooling done. Yeah, I'm probably an agreement with you too. And you know, people have mentioned that Knicks is a destination for McCollum as well, and he would be interesting there. They would still fall pretty short of being this like serious contender with him as basically their studio number one guy. But that again get you into the position of what are you sending the Blazers that really helps them win at the moment, which makes this so so curious, And I think you would have to find a situation where it's it's not a challenge trade, but can you get any you know, and I don't know if the Sixers are gonna let's say they lose to the Hawks in four or five games in the second round, are they willing to move Ben Simmons And how much in addition to CJ McCom do you have to send out to get Ben Simmons, Because that might be a scenario where I don't know how much. You know, you don't upgrade your offense in that scenario, though, Simmons is a much better playmaker, but you do have Norman Powell, which is sort of the other interesting element here is that you have these three dudes now who are six four or shorter, and he's gonna probably command a contract in the sixteen to twenty million dollars range this year. You probably shouldn't be paying all these guys, Like it just doesn't make a ton of sense. But at the same time, you can't really let Norm walk. I know you didn't give up a ton to get him, but Gary Trent Junior is a really good player, and so if the implication he's back, yeah, maybe it makes season McCom a little bit more expendable to you. I just don't know where you go out and build a different offer or even thought like, is there something they could do if the Thunder don't want to pay Shay because he's extension eligible, they're so early in the rebuild, he's gonna command to Max. But I'm not even sure, Like Shay isn't that you know, you mentioned their defense and Robert Covington is a fantastic team defender, but I think you're right. They need that guy who could play really one on one and give them minutes there. And so if you end up trading McCollum for less than a star, maybe like a you know, the poop poop platter where it's like two or three players who help you immediately. One of them needs to be like a lockdown wing defender. And I don't even think you look at teams across the league and see squads that are in that position to consolidate those type of players. I thought about the Pacers a little bit, but they don't have the defensive player we're talking about. They do have, like between having Turner, Sabonis, Warren, Lavert, Brogden, they have a bunch of these really good players, none of whom are superstars, and so maybe they'd be looking to, you know, would you give up Lavert plus something out Turner and Lavert for Turner. That would be interesting. I just don't know how much better it makes the Blazers. Yeah, I agree with you there. Well, thank you for the question, Noah, and thank you for listening. As as always, we have a question from Taco J in the chat. Who are the Celtics going to bring in as their head coach. Look, Taco J, if you figure that out before it's broken by woj or Sham Sharania, please let me know. I'm very curious to see how the Celtics are going to handle this search. You know, is there you know how many of their assistants are going to be in the mix. I think we can assume at least one of them are going to be. But is Brad Stevens also willing to go off the beaten path? Sort of like I don't want to say Danny Ainge do with him, but where Danny Ainge hired a first time NBA coach, Will he go that route whether he's an assistant or if it's plucking someone from the college ranks. Isn't even go after one of the flash year names. I'm honestly, I'm so curious. I'm also very curious to see how he viewsed a lot of the players he just coached, because this is the team that needs to improve. There's been a talent drain over the past few years. And you have Kemba, you have Jalen Brown, you have Jayson Tatum, and you have Marcus Smart. Plus you know, I would say those are closest to your core guys, and Kemba's probably only in that because this contract is so bad right now. You also have Romeo Langford, Aaron E. Smith, Peyton Pritcher, Robert Williams, and Grant Williams like sort of as you're young asset base. Apologies to Myo July and Carson Edwards for not including their names in there, but I'm just curious to see what he does. In general, this is I'm not surprised at any Danny Ainge stepped down after the past few years of you know, just what's transpired over the past few years there the Brad Stevens move, I was very surprised by, especially because it doesn't seem like there was this extensive search, or at least public search beforehand. I don't I don't know who they're gonna end up going with as their coach. I feel like it'll be like a middle ground situation where I don't know if it'll be a first time NBA coach or even a first time a head coach. But I do believe they're gonna have some head coaching experience, and so I don't think they're going to be in the mix for these like you know, you've seen Jeff n. Gundy's names tossed around in Portland, Mike d'antoni's name tossed around. I think it would be more along the lines of, oh do they look at you? Chauncey billups as someone is a name that would bring to mind there, So that would be my guess. But I honestly have no feel for what Boston Is is going to do, and it's going to I think the way he handles this head coaching search is going to set the tenor for a lot of what they do moving forward, because if you go with the first time or does that is the implication that you're not necessarily as committed to winning immediately. You have take them, you have Brown, you keep those guys. But they're also young enough where you don't have to have this sense of urgency and they just they have questions. Kemba two years, seventy three million left, do you look at moving him Smart's extension eligible. You can sign him for starting at as much as seventy seventeen excuse me, point two million in the year after next. The two questions are is that enough? Or is he gonna want to enter free agency and s if he can get a better offer or the other questions, but the Celtics even want to give him that because that is a hell of a lot of money. I think Marcus Smart is one of the most valuable players in the NBA and gets a bad rap. You know, he's adventurous to a detriment on offense sometimes, but his three point volume helps and he's quietly shot thirty five point five percent from there over the past three years. But I'm sorry, I don't have a better answer for you, Tako j. There's just a ton of stuff moving parts going on in Boston that I don't think we fully understand. And since you have the benefit of listening to this live, there will be on this actual podcast a longer conversation with Alex Kungu, who covers the Celtics, where we'll get a little bit more in deaf into this discussion. Let's get to this next question from reply guy. If the Clippers advance, is there a good reason that you think the small brawl approach that has works so well against the MAVs will or won't be effective against Utah. I don't want to spend too much time on this question, just because I'm recording this as this game is going on, and as always, if you have any questions live send them here. If you want to talk about MAVs Clippers as it's happening in this second quarter right now. If we want to talk about Hawks six ers, the game we just watched, you are free to throw in a speaker request throw it in the chat. But the Clippers small ball approach is interesting. When people look at the Jazz, they remember what happened in that series against the Rockets. I think was that twenty nineteen I've lost all sense of time. It was really like a three or four game stretch where it was just it looked like a struggle for Utah. They're eventually able to adjust. I also don't think that the Clippers small ball lineup is as dangerous as that extreme, because you're looking at Marcus Morris as you're five there. Essentially he has not proven consistent enough on either end of the floor, and certainly isn't consistent enough on defense. I think to make it as big of a problem, I don't know that I would necessarily give the Jazz the edge full on in that series. But I think when you look at this Jackal and high act the Clippers have transpired. If we end up seeing Clippers jazz, I think my instinct would be to go with the jazz there, and I wouldn't worry if I'm utah too much about their small ball approach. I think, just given their personnel, Rudy Gobert could hang in a lot of different, you know, different switching situations there and or there just might be guys that he's able to leave when you're looking at some of their other small ball lineups because he's not going to be the primary Anna Paul George or a you know, a Kwhi Leonard. Maybe they just live with is Rondo. A part of that unit is Reggie Jackson, who's played had some really good spurts this year in that unit. Do you just say, hey, we'll live with them shooting from the perimeter and Rudy Gobert will stick off of them and still go and drop. I don't know. It's an interesting thing to consider. MAV's jazz will be interesting too, because Dallas has tried to go like super big at points against the Clippers with Boban and Chris Stops. I don't think. I don't think that's gonna fly at all against Utah, although maybe the impetus there is like, we don't want to have Chris Stops defend Rudy Gobert, so you want boban On there. I think Kleibla might be a better option even to defend Rudy Gobert on roles than Chris Stops. I don't think Christops a bad defender, by the way, for anyone listening to this, and he can be. He's a little bit twitchier in space and I think people will give him credit for but he's just not looked right. I think he's at the point where it doesn't hurt your defense as opposed to he's probably not going to elevate it too much. If you need him to be a rim protector five, if you need him to do just a ton of things, I don't think he's going to be your guy in that situation. Next question comes from Aaron one five six are the Sun is now your favorite to be the Western Conference champion after beating the Lakers. This is not a flex because first of all, it's they're not the West champion yet. But I had the Sons coming out of the West Initially my picks were Sixers sons in the finals. I have zero confidence in that prediction just overall, especially when you look at you know, the Sixers lost Game one of the Hawks, but also what is going to happen with him being played fantastic in that game? But I am scared shitless about his meniscus injury. I'm assuming the terrorists just microscopically small. Otherwise I don't know why he'd be playing and playing as much as he did in Game one. But then there's also the matter of seeing them that without James Harden saved for forty three seconds, just absolutely carving up the Bucks, and there was some coaching weirdness there with Mike Budenholzer, and then also the Bucks. You know, they didn't shoot well from three, but they also probably need to shoot more than thirty three's against the nets because the math will eventually not work if all you're trying to do is attack the pain and you're not, you know, shooting a trillion percent at the fall line. But I do have the Suns still coming out of the West. I think I said at the beginning of the playoffs, I thought the winner of Laker's Sons was going to come out of the Western Conference, in part because if the Lakers won that series, the implication for me was that, oh, they're healthier than we thought. Lebron is fantastic. Why would you bet against him at this point? I did bet against him and sons Lakers they are. There's no gimming matchups here, though. I would have them in six or seven against the Nuggets because I really think that Denver struggled with Portland's backcourt. And now you have CP three and Devin Booker. Those are two. You know, Damian Lillard better than both those guys right now, but I would say Devin Booker and Chris Paul are both better than CJ. McCollum. The issue there is what's gonna be up with CP three shoulder. We've seen it impact him and he went. He got better as the Sun's Laker series went on. But can he take more three pointers? Can he hit those you know, those pull up jumpers off his snakes? He's been great anyway, but if his shoulders not at seventy five percent, eighty percent, whatever, I don't even know how you ballpark or specific number, by the way, but just as the estimation there, I don't know. I don't. That'll feel like a series that's destined to go seven still, and it'll even it up a little bit for Denver without Jamal Murray. So interesting series. I do still have the Suns coming out of the West. I think the matchup I'd be worried most about for them is even more so than the Lakers one is the winner of if it's Jazz Clippers, I don't. I think they match up fairly well against the MAVs. Maybe that's a terrible take, but I think I'd be worried about them facing the Clippers or the Jazz more so than the MAVs or this upcoming Denver series. But there are no easy series in the in the Western Conference, I think, as we've seen time and time again. Next question comes from Gandoff Stormcrow. Are the Utah Jazz the most disrespected one seed in NBA history? Three All Stars, defensive Player of the Year, six Man of the Year runner up, six Man of the Year runner up, head Coach of the Year, top five offense, top five defense, five guys that can go for thirty on any given night. Did we get the full results for Coach the Year already? That I missed that Quin Schneider was runner up. I don't think they've announced that yet. They announced the Coaches Association one, but anyway, top three quin Schneider is the top three Coach of the Year candidate. Rudy Gobert's going to win Defensive Player of the Year. Yeah, I do think there. I don't know if they're the most disrespected number one seed in history. I you know, I've only been alive for a finnite amount of time there gandoff, so they've definitely been disrespected, though, because I think that everyone's been mentioning the Nets. They've been mentioning the Bucks. They've mentioned the Sixers, they were mentioning the Lakers beforehand. I think the Suns had finally come onto people's radars. Everyone wants to talk about the Clippers. People are talking about the MAVs more now because they thought that this would not necessarily be a rebeat of last year. And it turns out the MAVs, even though they lacked that secondary shock creator they've made, they gave the Clippers a ridiculously difficult time. The Jazz need to be up there. They were the best regular season team. I don't understand the sentiment that Rudy Gobert is gonna get played off the floor, or their offense isn't going to hold up in the playoffs. These are just outmoded takes. That one, the Rudy Gobert stuff, I still don't think was ever accurate. It was it wasn't even a matter of one specific team that no longer exists. The Jazz figured out a way to keep him on the floor by the end of that series. It was just too little, too late. So that has always just been a mistaken narrative to me anyway. And then the offense is just like, this isn't circa two or three years ago when it was only Donovan Mitchell. They have all these other shot creators in Mike Conley, Boyan mcdonovitch, Clarkson, Joe Ingles, and so maybe you want their second best shot creator be better than any of those guys. One, Mike Conley would like a word with you if you think that, fy, I think I'd like a word with you. Two been outstanding. He really just how anti poetic I guess of him, just absolutely throttling the Memphis Grizzlies at times in the first round. But anyway, even when the Jazz offense wasn't holding up, and I think you know Mitchell having kind of a rough go his first two postseason campaigns. I would say certainly at least one of those wasn't great. He was just overtaxed. And yet the Jazz is a team were still creating these high quality looks. It was just a matter of they didn't necessarily have as many guys that can knock them down. Again, that's very boy On Bydonovitch and Mike Conley help you a ton, and then Jordan Clarkson of course, but it was also just the one shot creator. And now you have a bunch I would say, two actually top level ones in Conley and Donovan Mitchell, and then you have legitimate secondaries in Joe Ingles has always been one but overstretched if you want him to be more than that. And now you're you have boy on Bygonch and Jordan Clark's in there even when he's not necessarily hitting his shots that the pressure that he puts on defenses to defend him is absolutely huge. So yes, ganned Off storm Crow, The Jazz are disrespected. I would say they are the most disrespected first seed in like at least a decade, maybe two decades. I don't know if I would say an NBA history, but that's probably a conversation to go back and look at they are title contender. My co host Adam frommel Again, a trader who's not here today, picked them to win at all, and it's I don't agree with him, but it's a legitimate pick because the Jazz are really freaking good. Next question comes from Mile High Core four. When will the MVP Award be announced? I honestly couldn't tell you at this point. It looked like they were rolling them out when they were announcing sixth Man, but then we haven't heard anything and Most Improved Player obviously, but we haven't heard anything since about the other stuff. They were normally announcing it towards the I think it was the end of the playoffs, like right before the finals, or maybe even after the fact. They were trying to make the award show happen. At one point two, I couldn't tell you. It'll probably be the last ward that's announced, though, and so by my estimation, we still have Rookie of the Year Coach of the Year. I don't think they don't really make a big to do about Executive of the Year, but we have that, we have Defensive Player of the Year and then of course MVP. So I wish I could could tell you, but I honestly cannot. All I can tell you is that Nicole Yoki is going to win in a mother effing landslide. Next question comes from Jeremy Tanner Allen. Who has a better chance against the Nets, the Suns or Jazz. I'm assuming that Jeremy's assuming the Nets make it to the finals, and then it'll be the Suns with the Jazz in the finals as well. That's a great question. I think I'm gonna go with Phoenix there. I could see some of the Nets small ball units giving the Jazz some fits when you look at having Jeff Green at the five, or when it's kd is kind of at the five, but he's really not because it's Bruce Brown at the five. And then I don't know that the Jazz had the same type of individual wing defense. Well it's not that I don't know, they definitely don't have the same type of individual wing defenders. When you look at Phoenix, they have Jay Crowder and McHale. Bridges give you a lot of different options to use with those two guys, and no, are you going to stop the Big three in full of course not, but CP three might be able to steal some minutes against harden End or Kyrie for you. And then again you have Jay Crowder, you have McHale bridges to help out in those situations. I would expect to see probably Jay Crowder on KD or maybe that's McHale there, just because Katie's not like super strong, so you don't need the broliness of Jay Crowder. He's probably better off against harden there. And then yeah, it does get interesting when you're looking at, Okay, what happens with Kyrie if we're as the odd man out. CP three again help you there for a little bit if he's healthy. They do have Tory Craig that they could unbutton for that matchup. I like the sounds better though, just because they have those defensive options, whereas with the Jazz it's like, okay, Royce O'Neil, we'll go up against one of those three. You guys, how are you divvying up the rest of those defensive responsibilities? I honestly just don't know what you do, And so that's really gonna push excuse me as I yawn, Joe Ingles and Bayabardanovitch to their defensive limits. And if you get in a situation where you, you know, Donovan Mitchell and my Kami are defending some of those guys Harden and Kyrie specifically, that's just tough. I mean, maybe Conley can help you in some of those instances. I think Donovan Mitchell will be overmatched a ton against both of those guys. I'm starting to see why, and I always saw, but I get why people just as the Nets are going to the finals, watching them against the Bucks. In Game one, James Harden goes down with the hamstring injury, Kyrie and Kad combined to shoot abysmal bysmally from three, and they just still roll over them. I know that the Bucks are just you know, there are things that they're gonna have to change as well, But my god, I get I've always gotten why the Nets are scary. Whenever you watch them have one of those games, those nights, those extended string of moments, it gets really hard to envision anyone beating them four times at seven tries. That being said, I will not back off my Bucks over Nets pick, and if the Sixers for some reason make it out against the Hawks, I will pick them over the nets too, if Joel Embid is playing. That is you know, subject to change with more information, of course, but nets are scary. Just don't think that they're I think that they would be able to make mince meat more so of the Jazz defense than they would of Phoenix's defense, which is wild to say about the best defense in the MBA. I just don't know as well as Rudego Bert can hold up and switches if your primary guy is best suited in these drop situations. A lot of teams are built to carve that up. But the nets specifically might be able to kill you. And I think we saw look at and Bead versus Tray Young in Game one. The Sixers eventually put you know, a ton of pressure on him, so that changed the calculus of you know, the defensive matchups in that situation. But you saw Trey Young killing the Sixers with loads early on or passes in lobs because of that's the how reliant you are on the drop, and Joelombie didn't really seem to know how to react in that situation. Rudy Gobert will be going through a lot of the same stuff. I imagine this question also comes from and it will be our final one. Like I said, if anyone has any questions in the room, feel free to ask it, but it will be our final one because I said I was going to keep this shorter. Aaron won five six. Asked again, people always criticize coach Bud for not playing Middleton Drew Jannis for forty plus minutes. Do you think this is the main reason that they lost to the harden List nets. I don't think that's the main reason that they lost. They shot five of thirty. I think it was from three that's a big reason why they lost. I don't understand the minute's distributions necessarily, where it feels like some games he's trying to steal too many minutes with bench players, like he's saving his guys for the fourth quarter. But you could put yourself in a situation where the game gets away before that. I would say that in a closer game, because this wasn't close. And that's what really messes this up is that they lose one fifteen to one oh seven. That score was closer than the game actually was. Janna is playing over thirty five minutes, Middleton over thirty six, Drew over thirty six. It's like, kind of it's shocking they even got that high, is my point, because that's how far away the game was. I don't think that's the main reason why they would lose. But this is the flyoffs. You guys have committed to this championship timeline. I would say that all three of those guys are capable of giving you thirty eight to forty two minutes. Maybe not every single night if you're that worried about it, but you're willing to play PJ. Tucker twenty eight minutes, he shouldn't be logging just seven fewer minutes than Janis would be my argument. And also, fourteen minutes of Jeff Teague is fourteen minutes too much of Jeff Teague in this scenario. And when you're looking at even Brent Forbes and his twenty two minutes, he was getting carved up on defensive, was not making his shots. His confidence remains aspirational. I want to make that clear, but you need to play them more. I don't think that's the main reason that they lost again. They were six of thirty from three, So I apologized them speaking they didn't really get to the falone. They were eleven of nineteen when they were there, and so you look at that and the nets were from three point riders alone were plus twenty seven. And then they're also you know, they actually only had not the Bucks won the free throw competition, but they didn't leave a ton of points on the board, and they were just like that team for what they are, knowing how small that the Nets are playing, you would like to see a situation where the Bucks are controlling the glass even more. I know that they had fifteen offensive rebounds, but still you want to be able to try and beat up on some of these lineups that Brooklyn is running out there, and it's not going to get easier because as Anarn mentioned, James Harden didn't play that game, and as I mentioned already at the top, like Kevin Durant and Kyrie iring kamand to shoot four fifteen from three, how much do you bank on that more? I love the story there, though, is I think while attacking the rim against Brooklyn is important and making sure you're out in transition too, you need to the three point shooting is gonna be huge in this series because the Nets are built too. They don't always focus on necessarily three point shooting like they're built to make a ton of them, even when they're best guys aren't hitting them at the highest clips. Joe Harris five of nine break, Blake Griffin excuse me, had his moment going four of nine from deep. You're gonna want to keep up with that. And also I wasn't recording this. James Harden is gonna be out for Game two against the Bucks Nets was announced by Sham Sharani. I'm assuming the team announced it and that it's not for him, but anyways, so that gives the Bucks an opportunity to make up for this. The other thing that I think maybe it wasn't talked about enough, but like this very much looked like a team that hadn't played in basically a week. When you were watching the Bucks, the pace was so frenetic through like the first quarter maybe, and then it felt like all of a sudden, ramping it up got to them a little bit. So let's see what adjustments coach Bud makes in Game two. As this series goes on, he has made adjustments throughout the year. We saw the Bucks switch. More so, more of y'all as the screener, even if it was as a decoy, not necessarily as a finisher, had guy stashed in the dunker spot. They ran more zone this year than they did last year. Statistically, he has made adjustments, but their bench is shallow, and I don't think that you could rely on it that much, especially when Dante de Vincenzo was out. When those Dante de Vincenzo minutes are becoming more Jeff t slash Pat Connaton slash Bryn Forbes minutes, No, you're not getting the same defensive from for many of those guys. I would like to see. I didn't look up the data because I was only half paying attention to this game when it got out of hand. But I was not very this is to say, not very locked in by the fourth quarter of it. I would like to see the maybe Explorer going even smaller because you had Brook Lopez playing, you know, twenty eight minutes, and then you had Bobby Portis. He ended up with seventeen, and so that's forty five minutes of the game with a quote unquote traditional big see give the honest and PJ. Tucker Frontline just run at this point. I know it's maybe a little bit harder without Dante Devancenzo there, but you have you have Tucker, you have Holiday in Middleton. Finding the fifth is tough, and so I get why you maybe wouldn't lean on that as much. Just give it a shot. If it's content, if it's Bryn Forbes, I guess it should probably be conntent in that situation. I honestly don't know. That might just be something for them to go to because even if the Nets have Nicholas Clacks on the court, like they're not big. We even saw it with like they had the Blake Griffin Bruce Brown lineup, like that's not a traditional sized French court of French court, wow front court. You could get away with going small in those scenarios. So those are things that I'm looking for. It will be interesting to see how, if at all, he adjusted his rotation. I will say his options are limited here just is Yeah, I think the obvious answer is to play your stars more minutes because you are so shallow. But if you're looking to keep guys within certain limits where you don't trust Lopez or Tucker to give you thirty plus in this series, then yeah, you're getting into some some thorniness because you're running out of bodies at that point. And do you want to be at a point where you're relying on Nazis Attentacopo in this I would argue no. So that's where the absence of Dante de Vincenzo is huge. But it was one game and they are catching a break I think without James Harden in game two, and that should make things easier. And look, hamstrings are fickle. He missed twenty something games with it, I believe already had it didn't really have much of a ramp up before the playoffs, it wouldn't surprise me if he misses a little bit more time. If they wouldn't game two, I'll almost guarantee you that he's not playing in game three because why risk it. But the Bucks get a little bit lucky there, Let's see how they adjust. That's all I got for you, though. Thank you everyone who came in and out of the room. Thank you Noah as always for coming on to speak. I hope you enjoyed. For anyone listening to this later, I hope you enjoyed. The Celtics conversation I had with Alex Kongou. That was great to talk to him as always, until next time, I leave you with the shout out to the one the only The recruitment is underway, Damian Lillard.