WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.519 --> 00:00:13.080 Good afternoon. You're listening to Gambling with an Edge. Now here are your 2 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:18.839 host Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin. Good afternoon, Welcome to Gambling with an 3 00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:23.960 Edge. I'm Bob Dancer and I'm Richard Munchkin. Today our guest is Captain 4 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:31.559 Jack Andrews, one of the principles and co founder of unabated dot com who 5 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:37.560 talks about all things sports betting related. Captain Jack, Welcome back to Gambling 6 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:40.960 with an Edge. It's a pleasure to be here, guys. I guess 7 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:44.479 this is the Farewell Tour, so I'm honored to be one of the guests 8 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:48.320 on the on the farewell Tour. Yes, and right now, we don't 9 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:55.679 know how long this Farewell Tour is going to last. We hum when we 10 00:00:55.719 --> 00:01:00.359 announced it last week. In the next two days, we've got four emails 11 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:04.079 from people who want to be part of the tour and they seem to keep 12 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:07.959 coming. So I don't know if anybody's going to let us retire, but 13 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:11.680 we're trying. So in the meantime, let's have a good show today with 14 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:22.319 Captain Jack. All right, So, last December, Unabated put out a 15 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:29.239 new tool that some of your users have been able to use to extract a 16 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:34.719 considerable amount of money from sports books. What happened. Yeah, So here's 17 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:40.640 the funny thing about sports betting is when we started Unabated, one of the 18 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:45.920 main detraction point of detractions was what if they suck all the edges out of 19 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:49.640 sports betting, then there'll be nothing left for everybody else. And what we've 20 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.719 found in the two plus years that we've been around is edges keep on showing 21 00:01:53.799 --> 00:02:00.400 up. There are always new ways that sports betting is expanding throughout the country, 22 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:04.519 and as a result, there's new edges to be found just about every 23 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:07.599 day. And we put out a tool in December. Now let me let 24 00:02:07.639 --> 00:02:12.439 me just cavy out this by saying, I'm a firm believer that discretion is 25 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:15.919 the better part of valor. So I don't want to spell everything out implicitly 26 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:20.639 here, explicitly here, because I don't want other sports books to say, 27 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:22.879 oh, okay, well, here's what we can learn from this, and 28 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:25.759 here's how we could protect ourselves from this. I'm talking more to the players. 29 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:30.479 And so we put out a tool. And this tool was intended for 30 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:37.199 one thing. It was intended for It was intended for football, and we 31 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:43.479 found just through coincidence, that this tool could point towards edges in basketball, 32 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:47.439 and our user base quickly found this out as well. And there was a 33 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:53.680 major US sports book, one of the bigger brands that's out there, that 34 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:58.439 had a couple different inefficiencies in how they were making their markets. And I 35 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:00.120 don't want to again, I don't want to spell it all out, but 36 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:06.520 they were doing multiple things in an inefficient manner, and our users picked up 37 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:08.360 on it. Rufus and I picked up on it. In fact, we 38 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:13.560 had a discussion shortly after this tool became public going man, if we would 39 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.360 have realized that this was going on, maybe we wouldn't have made this tool. 40 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:23.199 And long story short, our users were able to use this tool to 41 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:30.599 find edges in a basketball market and do so to great profitability. In fact, 42 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:36.840 in the first week of March, the major sports book finally realized the 43 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:40.319 error of their ways and they kind of changed a couple of things that caused 44 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:45.199 it no longer to be as great an edge there. But we took a 45 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:49.759 poll and found that our users had already made somewhere between six and eight million 46 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:54.400 dollars they had taken from this sports book in the roughly three months, and 47 00:03:55.120 --> 00:04:00.479 it wasn't something that got blasted all around Twitter or anything like that. That 48 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:03.080 wasn't how the edge finally got under uncovered. It was probably just due to 49 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:06.159 the sports book saying, wait a minute, our numbers, we don't seem 50 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:10.759 to be holding as much in this market as we once were, but our 51 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:14.120 users who did a great job in finding the edge and then sort of kind 52 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:16.800 of keeping it on the down low, not blasting it around to everyone else. 53 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:23.199 We make a point at unabated to kind of teach not only the science 54 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:28.519 of sports betting, but also the art of sports betting, and they find 55 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.399 that sometimes you need to be a little discreete and how you handle things. 56 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:35.000 You need to go about things in a way that not only allows you to 57 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:39.680 get the money down, but also allows you to stay under the radar or 58 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:44.399 stay outside of the radar that many sports books are looking at when they're trying 59 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:47.480 to find what the shark betters are on and who's beating them. But I 60 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:53.879 think we did a very good job, you know, pulling off that substantial 61 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:58.839 score from that major sports book was a big boost to a lot of users 62 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:00.680 on our site as well as as well as to Rufus and I and the 63 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:04.600 other founders that Unabated because it kind of helped prove that, uh, you 64 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:08.759 know, there was an edge out there. Nobody else really picked up on 65 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:12.040 it. We quietly were able to help our users kind of get the money 66 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:15.600 and it was a success story for us. I want to be clear that 67 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:23.240 the tool was there, but but there wasn't anything at Unabated that was saying 68 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:28.040 to the players, hey, look at this, here's you know, here's 69 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:31.319 a big edge for you. That's correct, right, right, So the 70 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:35.959 tool was out there just to be used against any sports book in any market, 71 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:42.560 and it was able to everyone kind of thinks of this tool as being 72 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:46.639 focused on football. Stamford Wong made it a very popular way to approach football. 73 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:49.399 There's that's probably too big of a hint, but I'll throw that out 74 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:54.360 there, and people were used. We were able to use this tool to 75 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:57.759 apply it to basketball, and it was, you know, sort of one 76 00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:00.399 of these things that kind of popped up in our community discord that we have. 77 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:05.360 We have a community of like minded betters that all kind of correspond with 78 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:10.720 each other on the discord, and uh, you know, it got posted 79 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:12.879 a few times, like, hey, does anyone have as anyone tried this, 80 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:15.040 and once I looked at it, I go, oh wow, that's 81 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:19.319 that's that's really powerful. And it sort of kind of went from there, 82 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:23.639 and like I said, I kind of I kind of preached to these people 83 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:26.759 that hey, look, discretion is the better part of valor. That's something 84 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:30.319 I've learned early in my AP career that you definitely need to figure out the 85 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:35.160 best way to approach and edge rather than just kind of just blasted all over 86 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:39.720 the universe. So, yeah, the tool was very agnostic and how it 87 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:42.920 approached things, but it was able to kind of uncover something that people just 88 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:48.879 really didn't think was possible. So you originally started out gambling as a black 89 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:56.879 deck player and moved into sports. Did you see um correlations between you know, 90 00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:00.639 being a card counter and sports betting. Yeah, you know, Richard, 91 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:04.959 I started out as a blackcheck player as a card counter, And that's 92 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:08.160 one of the reasons I kind of wanted to come on gambling with an edge, 93 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:11.639 is because gambling with an edge was always very influential in my career, 94 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:16.680 in my personal evolution as an advantaged player. I was able to kind of 95 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:23.680 learn about things that maybe I wouldn't have otherwise learned about by listening to episodes 96 00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:25.759 of Gambling with an Edge, and I go all the way back, Bob, 97 00:07:25.800 --> 00:07:29.680 I go back when I would have to tune into an internet link for 98 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:33.560 a radio station somewhere in Vegas, and the show was just aired at that 99 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:36.800 time, and if I missed it, I missed it until it showed up 100 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:42.439 in some archives somewhere. You know, it wasn't necessarily a regular podcast like 101 00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:46.480 it is these days. And I learned about a lot of new things in 102 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:51.399 advantage Play, and I guess one of them was sports betting. You know, 103 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:56.279 maybe those early episodes with like Frank b or somebody like that, that 104 00:07:56.680 --> 00:08:00.800 really kind of piqued my interest into what's out there. And I found over 105 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:05.079 the years that sports betting and card counting are not as far apart as people 106 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:09.920 might think. It's all about it's all about game selection. It's all about 107 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.319 quantifying your edge. It's all about betting your edge. It's all about getting 108 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:16.959 the money down when you have an edge. And you know, for a 109 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.879 card counter picking the right casino to play in is a huge part of the 110 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:26.279 battle, right you know, everyone knows this. You got to find the 111 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:30.199 games that are beatable. Not all the games are beating and the right table 112 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:35.080 within that casino exactly like you got to find you know, what games are 113 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.879 being dealt, and sports betting similar you got to find what sports have a 114 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.679 beatable, have some kind of inefficiency that's beatable. You need to find the 115 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:46.840 right sports books to play at. You need to find where the edges are 116 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.000 at. You need to quantify your edge, right, you need to say, 117 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:54.039 and now, in card counting, it's very simple. Oh, it's 118 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:58.120 all based on a fifty two card finite deck or you know, a multiple 119 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:01.200 of that in a shoe game, and so it's easy to quantify your edge. 120 00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:05.519 In sports betting, it's a little harder to quantify your edge because you 121 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:11.080 don't know the exact quantification of how the game is going to play out. 122 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:18.159 However, it's all about being less wrong than the bookmaker. And so if 123 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:20.399 you're using sort of like that, we call this the top down method. 124 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:24.320 You're looking to sources of truth within the market that are sharper than the rest 125 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:28.840 of the market, and when they move, you move, and you play 126 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:35.840 those lines at the less sharp books that are that are more wrong than the 127 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:39.320 market makers, and you can profit that way, and you can quantify your 128 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:41.320 edge that way, and you say, oh, I have a two point 129 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:46.919 four percent advantage based on what this sharp book has the line at, and 130 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:52.720 then you know you can bet Kelly criterion subsequent to a two point four percent 131 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:56.360 edge, although you probably wouldn't bet full Kelly in sports betting. You bet 132 00:09:56.360 --> 00:09:58.799 more of like a half or a quarter Kelly. And that was kind of 133 00:09:58.759 --> 00:10:03.720 the it is behind Unabated We we built these tools that people probably don't have 134 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:09.960 on their own in order to help them find the edge using our odd screen, 135 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:13.799 quantify your edge using our various edge tools that basically show right on the 136 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:18.720 screen you have a two point four percent edge if you bet this at Caesar's 137 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.840 Sportsbook relative to the unabated line, which is the unabated line is your your 138 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.159 market maker truth line, and you know, and then we have various tools 139 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:33.320 for helping you to get the money down, maybe in derivative markets or alternate 140 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:37.039 line markets, or maybe you're just here for the education and talking about the 141 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:41.639 art of sports betting. It's a lot like card counting, where you kind 142 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:46.159 of you basically rinse and repeat and you grind out your edge over time, 143 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:50.440 and you can always learn a little bit more about ways to beat blackjack, 144 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:52.720 just like you can always learn a little bit more about ways to beat sports 145 00:10:52.720 --> 00:11:00.919 betting. Yeah, anything else, yeah, yeah, or any form of 146 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:03.919 gambling right right. I was talking to my son the other day and he 147 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:09.639 said, you know, you could be the smartest mass genius in the world 148 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:16.080 and find a way to get a big edge at sports betting. But if 149 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:20.960 you only have one account, you can't make any money. I mean even 150 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.919 if you have one account at every sports book. So to really make money, 151 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:31.559 you need a lot of outs. And which do you think is actually 152 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:37.639 more important finding being able to find the edge or being able to get actually 153 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:39.960 get the money down. Well, you know my answer to that, Richard, 154 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.480 because this is something I learned from gambling with an edge for years. 155 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:48.120 Because you're you're the guy that I think put this into everyone's consciousness the most 156 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:50.840 over the years. Has been uh, you know, you're old saying of 157 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:54.759 it's the gold mine that nobody's figured out how to get the gold out of 158 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:56.879 yet, or you know, you can have the science of something, but 159 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:01.159 the art of it is trying to get the money down. So absolutely getting 160 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:05.080 the money down is big and just like a card counter. They don't ever 161 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:09.360 just play at one casino. That's no way to have a career or even 162 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:13.240 a side hustle. As a card counter. You need to go around and 163 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:16.960 find where the games are, find the better games. Just like a sports 164 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:22.279 books sports better you need to be able to shop around find the ideal line. 165 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.159 We talk about the landmark book The Logic of Sports Betting by Ed Miller 166 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:31.559 and Matt David l And what they kind of put in everybody's head with that 167 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:39.159 book was this idea of synthetic hold, where your disadvantage against the sports book 168 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:46.799 is only as great as the best line at multiple different sports books. And 169 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:50.000 so if you have one shop that has seven mins one ten and you have 170 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:54.120 another shop that has plus seven minus one oh five, well then you've already 171 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:58.840 kind of lowered the synthetic hold because you're not betting into a four and a 172 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:03.440 half percent disavanta. You're betting into more like a like a three point two 173 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.159 percent disadvantage. And if you get enough sports books and you shop enough lines, 174 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.080 you can find that synthetic hole gets lower and lower. Look, we're 175 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:16.320 into baseball season now, and baseball is probably the king sport of synthetic hole 176 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:20.679 being low. You can shop around and you can basically find no more than 177 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:24.320 a one percent disadvantage when it comes to betting baseball based on the best line 178 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.759 of l but multiple books now you're still betting into a disadvantage, which for 179 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.639 many of your listeners is not something they kurt want to do. But when 180 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:37.720 you have that many different options, you sometimes have a synthetic edge, a 181 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:41.399 synthetic house edge that goes against the casino and as an advantage for the player, 182 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:45.399 and you can get into arbitrage betting that way, and you can get 183 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:50.399 into situations where you have the edge over multiple books and zero risk. There's 184 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.919 a lot of betters that love that, and yeah, getting the money down 185 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:58.399 is the hardest part. But if you can kind of get this large stable 186 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.360 of sports books that you can play at, maybe you're in a good state 187 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:05.120 for sports betting, like Colorado in New Jersey and some others Ohios a kind 188 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:09.879 of an up and coming state. You have a lot of options. And 189 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:11.639 then if you don't have a lot of options, well you always have friends, 190 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:15.720 right, and maybe you're friends that are willing to put a bet down 191 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:18.759 for you at a sports book that they have access to and you kind of 192 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.440 work as a team that way, a little bit of a division of labor, 193 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:24.320 right. You come up with the plays use maybe using a site like 194 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:28.279 unabated, and you send them out to your friends and they get the bets 195 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:31.720 down, and you know, you kind of group all your funds together and 196 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.519 and pretty soon you find that you know, you're a you're a pretty good 197 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:41.159 little mini syndicate there attacking sports betting. How do you see sports betting in 198 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:46.120 five years or ten years from now? Uh, you know, that's that's 199 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:48.679 a big question that I think a lot of people are trying to approach, 200 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:54.480 both people in the industry as well as advantage players who want to know what's 201 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:58.440 the next wave. You know, I've talked about that in the past. 202 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:01.720 It's like you always need to be a little at what's coming next when it 203 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:05.919 comes to any form of advantage play. And so if you're able to have 204 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:07.799 a crystal ball and you don't want to use it to find out who's going 205 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:11.039 to win the World Series this year, but you want to use it for 206 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:15.279 you know, where is this industry headed? You kind of have to look 207 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:18.159 at what we've seen in other countries that are a little bit further along the 208 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:24.360 evolutionary scale than the United States is, and what we've seen is that sports 209 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:30.399 betting tends to give way to fewer operators. You know, I think there's 210 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:33.279 going to be more consolidation as some of the smaller operators just don't see the 211 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:41.159 profit in the relatively low margin of sports betting. And we've seen that sports 212 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:45.240 book operators tend to, because of that low margin, tend to dream up 213 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.720 ways to get more of your money. So they're dreaming of things like the 214 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:54.879 single game parlay, where you know, the the edge is significantly higher, 215 00:15:54.320 --> 00:16:00.279 or they want to talk you into playing microbetting where you're betting on like at 216 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:03.519 batter even each pitch of a baseball game, each drive of a football game, 217 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:10.200 and they tend to pack a lot more theoretical hold into those markets. 218 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.120 But the ultimate goal of any sports book operator in the United States right now 219 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:21.279 is to get you towards their forthcoming internet casino. And many of you that 220 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:23.080 are listening to this right now in the United States, you're like, well, 221 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:26.480 my States has sports betting, but they don't have internet casinos. Trust 222 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:30.840 me, they will, they absolutely will. That's the end game here of 223 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:34.440 all of this push towards legal legalization sports betting. They want to get to 224 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:40.039 the point where people are going to be using their internet casino. And why 225 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.519 is because the frequency of betting in an internet casino is so much higher than 226 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:48.840 sports betting. You can make a bet on a football game, and you 227 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.360 could sit down and watch that football game and you have your nice little sweat 228 00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:55.759 there for three hours. Whereas you sit down at a slot machine and you 229 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:59.639 make a bet, you're still not sitting there enjoying the machine. Three hours 230 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:03.360 later. Your spin was done in six seconds, and you can make ten 231 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.000 of those bets in a minute, and you can make you six hundred bets 232 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.680 in an hour, and that's far more advantageous for the casino, you know, 233 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.880 for the house to take your money from you by having you bet into 234 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:18.440 these markets again and again and again more frequently. So they want to kind 235 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.680 of get us to the point where we're playing in their internet casinos. Now, 236 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:27.400 do internet casinos offer any edge for the advantage player, It's yet to 237 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:30.640 be seen. Like we know, there's promotions and bonuses. We saw that 238 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:36.480 with the sports betting boom over the past five years or so. Look, 239 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:40.480 I remember coming on gambling with an edge and talking about all of the opportunities 240 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:45.799 that are out there for betters to maybe fly to New Jersey and sign up 241 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:48.839 for all these accounts and maybe make six to eight thousand dollars in an afternoon 242 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:55.920 just going through all these promotions and bonuses. Those opportunities are gone that you 243 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:59.400 know, New Jersey is a very saturated state. You can still find some 244 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:03.200 edges as new states pop up. We saw Massachusetts earlier in March, we 245 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:07.079 saw Ohio in January, but they're not nearly as strong as they used to 246 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.359 be. And internet casinos they're going to be a certain wave of that. 247 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.680 But for the most part, you already signed up for their sports book. 248 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.839 They already have your name, they already have your information. They don't need 249 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.599 to entice you with a bonus, so they don't have as many people that 250 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:30.000 need the brand awareness. In terms of ap plays for casinos internet casinos, 251 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:33.599 there's going to be some of the same plays that are available to the slot 252 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:37.640 hustlers that are out there. Some of the same slot plays are going to 253 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:38.920 be there. Some of them won't be there, but some of them will. 254 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:42.720 There's going to be progressives and things like that. One of the things 255 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:48.440 that I think I've found most refreshing about internet casinos in relation to land based 256 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:53.920 casinos is they all run on basically the same part sheet. They all have 257 00:18:55.000 --> 00:19:00.000 the same probabilities, and they broadcast not broadcasts. They spell out those probabilities 258 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.359 in the help screens. So you can find a slot machine where the average 259 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:10.160 return, the average theoretical return is ninety six point seven percent, and it'll 260 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:12.440 say that right on the instruction screen. This game returns ninety six point seven 261 00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:18.039 percent over time. So those of you who want to kind of figure out 262 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:22.359 how to find an edge at online slot machines, you can go ahead and 263 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:25.960 try to find that when they come to your area or you go to an 264 00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:29.519 area that has them. There's not a lot of edges out there for online 265 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:32.319 casinos, but I think there will be some, and there will be many 266 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:37.160 who who profit from it. Yeah. Boy, there's a lot a lot 267 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:42.640 to unpack there. But first I'd like to say that when you were talking 268 00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:48.799 about how the sports books want to push you to, you know, bet 269 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:55.599 on every down in football or whatever, you know, there was this big 270 00:19:55.680 --> 00:20:00.759 problem of you try to make those in game bets and you get the spinning 271 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:04.680 wheel and then the bet doesn't go through unless you've already lost that kind of 272 00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:10.000 thing I mean is that's still a big problem, and how are people going 273 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:15.559 to be able to bet that frequently if if that continues to be a problem. 274 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:21.440 So we do still have that certain amount of lag time that favors the 275 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:25.480 operator, it doesn't favor the better. That's sort of that free role against 276 00:20:25.480 --> 00:20:30.359 the better. Now, we've had some advances over the years. Some of 277 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.920 the first advances have been in some of the operators. They they now are 278 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.000 trying to be a little bit more agile with that betting process. You know, 279 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:41.920 you had Alex Kane from sport Trade on not too long ago and he 280 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:45.400 talked about how sport Trade has kind of taken away that spinning wheel, and 281 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.480 it's yes, it's an instantaneous you know, how much money is available to 282 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:53.359 you to bet into. You can bet rapidly. There's far less friction in 283 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:56.759 that market. You get in and out of a position very easily. I 284 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.319 use sport Trade. I love sport Trade. It's very it's a very good 285 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.400 product. In fact, a lot of my action these days are on the 286 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.960 exchanges here in New Jersey. But how are they going to kind of make 287 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:11.839 it so that that's a little bit more available to the general public. Well, 288 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:15.960 there's this company called simple Bet and they have been the pioneers in microbetting. 289 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:22.400 Microbetting is betting on the smallest details in sporting events, such as, 290 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:26.039 you know, will this player have a strikeout, a walk, a hit, 291 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.839 or make an out when they come up the bat in this inning. 292 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:34.279 And it's not as much rapid in terms of like the batters up to bat 293 00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:37.559 and you make this bet. It's sort of like you make this bet because 294 00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:41.720 they are the third batter do up in this inning, and you can make 295 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:45.960 it sort of in advance, so it's not as instantaneous as you might think 296 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:51.240 when it comes to microbetting. But we're going to get there. And what 297 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:56.759 will be the driving catalyst of all of that is advances in broadcasting technology and 298 00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:02.359 we're starting to see that. We're starting to see they're coming up with ways 299 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:07.039 to make less and less latency in the broadcast of sporting events. And when 300 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:11.960 that becomes available to both the operator and the better, that'll be a good 301 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:15.240 thing. If that is something that is only available to the operator, that's 302 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.559 a bad thing. The better is at a disadvantage. And what we're seeing 303 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:22.519 with a lot of these streaming services out there is a better that's watching a 304 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.559 game on YouTube or watching a game on some kind of streaming service like MLB 305 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:32.119 dot tv. You are a good minute and a half behind what's actually happening, 306 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:37.920 and the operators have access to the fastest feeds from sport Radar or from 307 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:42.079 Betting Is though, the two companies that handle most of the major sports leagues 308 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:48.279 and their live betting data, and they have the fastest feed, you don't 309 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:52.079 have the fastest feed. There's an inequality there. Look at un Abated, 310 00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:56.599 we actually contracted with sport Radar to get the fastest feed we could, and 311 00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:59.799 we're pretty fast, like we're ahead of broadcast television when it comes to this 312 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:03.000 doors for like the NBA, But we're still not ahead of the sports books 313 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.759 because the sports books have access to it and even faster fee that we can't 314 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:11.319 as a company access. So there's always going to be an unlevel playing field 315 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.200 until we get to the point where there is full zero latency, and we're 316 00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:21.039 very close to zero latency and the betters and the bookies can be on the 317 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:25.519 same playing field. But I don't know that the bookies are going to want 318 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:27.079 that because that's just too much of a risk to them, and then they're 319 00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:30.319 going to start to build in the little delays like they have now the spinning 320 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.440 wheels. So I don't know that it will ever be perfect, but we're 321 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:37.359 getting closer to perfect than we have in the past. I just want to 322 00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:41.799 point out too that, sorry, Bob, I keep cutting you off, 323 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:51.799 but when you're talking talking about adding these all these different kind of bets, 324 00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:56.559 this is a tremendous opportunity for players, just like for the card counters and 325 00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:03.000 the blackjack players when they start than adding all of these different carnival games. 326 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:10.559 Every time they add something or side bets, every time they add something new, 327 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:17.400 it's an opportunity for them to screw up or to not realize that they 328 00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:22.160 haven't fully analyzed what it is they're doing and that you may find vulnerability. 329 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:27.119 So absolutely, the more they throw out there, the better it is for 330 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:30.720 the players, because if there is no edge, well then you just don't 331 00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:34.039 have to bet on those things. Yeah, absolutely, Richard. We're not 332 00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:37.559 on video right now, but I was nodding my head. I was kind 333 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:42.680 of pumping my fist because that is exactly what any advantage player should welcome is 334 00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:48.559 the proliferation of this industry because they trust me, they're going to step in 335 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:52.119 it, like they just can't help themselves. They're going to make mistakes. 336 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:55.759 Trust me. I know of plenty of mistakes that are out there that you 337 00:24:55.759 --> 00:25:00.200 know, I probably don't want to share because I can't believe how dumb they 338 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:03.880 are, Like they just there's too much surface area for them to defend. 339 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:08.920 And the skill level on the operator side in sports betting is not as strong 340 00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:15.000 as the skill level on the player side. And I don't think that I 341 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:18.440 don't think we're going to reach the kind of like a uniform distribution of skill 342 00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:22.680 level for quite a while because there's just very few people that have in the 343 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:27.319 US at least that have experience in being a really good bookmaker. And this 344 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:33.079 industry doesn't seem to like want to pay to people what they're worth, and 345 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:37.000 they can make far more money on the player side and just you know, 346 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.440 pick off the edges in whatever way they want to. And that's great for 347 00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:45.240 any aspiring advantage player to continue to find new edges in sports betting. All 348 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:48.319 right, I'm going to stick in a quick question before Richard was so root 349 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:55.839 it cuts me off again. You mentioned you mentioned casinos want to get you 350 00:25:55.960 --> 00:26:03.000 onto their online apps. Well, in many states you have a bunch of 351 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:08.599 bouts, whether it will just say Caesar's, MGM Van Duel and among others, 352 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:15.119 and on sites like unabated, they will tell you what the current price 353 00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:22.880 is on each of those sites, and the sites are probably eighty percent identical 354 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:26.519 at any given time. But Raftkings is going to be better in one direction 355 00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:36.119 on something and better at something else. The players can pick and choose whereas 356 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.759 using the online, whereas they couldn't do that so easily when they had to 357 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:48.559 physically go to the sports books to place the bets. And because it's now, 358 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:56.759 this is a huge advantage for the players and a disadvantage for casinos in 359 00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:00.880 the online. You agree with this, Oh, sure, absolutely, it's 360 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:07.559 it's definitely a huge advantage line shopping compared to what you used to have to 361 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.759 do. Is I remember my earliest days going to Las Vegas and trying to 362 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:17.000 do a little bit of line shopping. And I think I would maybe go 363 00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:19.960 across like I usually would stay at Center Strip area there and maybe I'd get 364 00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:25.400 to the Imperial Palace and then maybe I would get too over to Caesar's and 365 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:26.799 then I would be like I just walked like two miles. I'm done, 366 00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:30.559 Like I'll just bet it here, you know, I don't care. And 367 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:34.599 with spots betting these days, I can see what the line is. I 368 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.640 can see not only in the books. I have access to a New Jersey, 369 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.720 I can see offshore, I can see around the world. I can 370 00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:48.640 see exchanges in Europe, I can see sports books in Australia. And that 371 00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:51.640 doesn't mean like I need to go bet there, you know. And I 372 00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:56.440 think that's one of the misguided parts of regulation in the US is they tend 373 00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:00.160 to say all offshore betting is bad. You know, the bad actor is 374 00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:03.240 offshore. No, that's all part of the ecosystem, all part of the 375 00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:08.079 economy. Like you don't watch CNBC and just focus on US stocks. You 376 00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:12.680 focus on what the world is doing. Events overseas impact events in the United 377 00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:18.519 States economy. So it's similar in sports betting. I want to see what 378 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.039 the line is at Betfair, at Matchbook, at some of the bigger European 379 00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:27.640 sports books, even on US sports because sometimes there's an influence there. And 380 00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:32.599 similarly, I want to see what the line is in Nevada at CERCA because 381 00:28:32.599 --> 00:28:34.960 I don't have circu out here in New Jersey, but I know Circus really 382 00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.240 sharp, and I want to see what they have as their line and when 383 00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:41.440 their lines are moving, and how they're moving, and when their limits go 384 00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:45.319 up because they're willing to take more liquidity on a market because they're more certain 385 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:49.200 of their number. It's all part of this market, and I think that's 386 00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:53.119 one thing that advantage players need to understand when it comes to if they want 387 00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:56.759 to get involved in sports betting, if they're looking for an edge, even 388 00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:00.079 after gambling with an edge goes off the air, you need to approach this 389 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:04.240 as if it's a living, breathing market and trying to see the intricacies of 390 00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:10.200 how the market moves and reacts. And baseball is not the same as football, 391 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:12.559 is not the same as hockey. All of these markets kind of move 392 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:15.640 differently. There's different market makers in each market, and you kind of have 393 00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:18.839 to learn that if you want to get involved in a certain market, you 394 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:22.799 don't need to learn the players and the coaches. You need to learn how 395 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:26.440 the market moves and what it moves and reacts to. All right, let's 396 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:33.400 shift scars scars a little bit. You've been a listener to gambling with an 397 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:38.680 edge for a decade or so. Do you have any favorite memories? You 398 00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:44.359 know, I have a lot of favorite memories of gambling with an edge because 399 00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:48.160 gambling with edge has been like an institution for me and for a lot of 400 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:53.279 advantage players out there. And we live in an age where there's plenty of 401 00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:56.359 podcasts these days, you like, look, I even have a podcast. 402 00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:03.599 Everybody's got a podcast these days. And well, the thing of gambling an 403 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:07.519 edge was it was always a little bit different. It was always there was 404 00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:11.519 always something. It wasn't just focused on card counting, it wasn't just focused 405 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:15.960 on you know, video poker. It was everything was covered. And it 406 00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:21.000 really opened my eyes to all the different things that were out there as an 407 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:25.920 advantage player. Look, I remember you talked about a guy that was getting 408 00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:30.519 an edge at scratch cards with lotteries. You know. When I was a 409 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.279 card counter early on, I would say, you know, if you're playing 410 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.279 scratch cards, man, you gotta you're dreading into a huge disadvantage. Well, 411 00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:41.519 maybe you are. Maybe there's an inefficiency in that market, you know, 412 00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:45.640 And and hearing some of the legends of the industry, of our industry 413 00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:51.000 of advantage play. Hearing them talk that was a great education to me. 414 00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:53.519 You know, Anthony Curtis, Like, there's just something about the way that 415 00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:57.960 Anthony Curtis talks about things that I always find appealing, Like I like listening 416 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:02.559 to the guy. I like even when I see him in person, like 417 00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.680 Blackjack ball and things like that, I just like hearing him explain something. 418 00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:08.680 He just has a way of talking that I've tried to adapt and try to 419 00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:12.480 relate to people when you explain things to them. And you know, some 420 00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:18.519 of the things with Gambling with an Edge have been they take me back to 421 00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:22.599 a time when I would store up a lot of episodes because I would have 422 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.559 some travel and I know there's people listening to this that can relate to this. 423 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.359 You have a long flight coming up, you store up three or four 424 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.720 episodes of Gambling with an Edge to listen to on the flight, or you 425 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:37.559 have a long car ride. And I had this play that I was doing 426 00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:40.759 for a number of years that would often require about a four and a half 427 00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:45.920 hour drive, and me and my partners we would always store up Gambling with 428 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:51.480 an Edge episode to listen to in the car as we drove between these two 429 00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:56.359 areas that we were making this play at, and we always had like a 430 00:31:56.440 --> 00:32:00.519 running commentary of the episode as we go, and to this today, when 431 00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:04.920 I hear certain words or certain phrases, it takes me back to be driving 432 00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:08.240 those roads and listening to it, and you know, we were laughing or 433 00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:12.359 we were saying like that's a great comment, or that's that's a dumb comment. 434 00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:14.640 You know, it was. It was all over the map. So 435 00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:16.400 I think when it comes to gambling with image, I think one of the 436 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:21.599 things I'll miss was the variety of it, and it had a certain structure 437 00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:23.759 to it that was was very unique. And I think Bob, that's a 438 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:28.119 credit to you and Richard as well, and even to him, Mike Shackelford 439 00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:34.680 before him like it. It was just a unique way of looking at advantage 440 00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:37.839 play. And uh, you know, I still I will still go back 441 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:44.200 to some old episodes and he listened to them. List Bob er session episodes 442 00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:47.599 were always great because there was always something that maybe I didn't understand about the 443 00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:54.599 legal intricacies that Bob would would explain well and he'd pound the desk and it 444 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:59.759 would it would always be a great listening to anytime he had had things to 445 00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:05.319 say about the legal side of things. Always great for recording him pounding on 446 00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:13.039 the desk, right. Yeah, he takes the award for the best pounder 447 00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:15.960 on the Gambling with an Edge guest. Yeah, yeah, he's leading that. 448 00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:19.920 You know. I just want to say, I'm one of the things 449 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.839 I'm proudest of about this show is that we have had people on the show 450 00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:32.519 talking about ways to beat almost every possible game you can imagine, and as 451 00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:39.039 he said, from scratch off lottery tickets to you know, craps roulette, 452 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:44.559 I mean everything. Um, you know, ten years ago, if you 453 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:47.200 had said, uh, yeah, there's this podcast where they have guys on 454 00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:52.160 who are beating slot machines, I would have, you know, said that's 455 00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:57.119 ridiculous. But you know, now that's the up and coming thing. I 456 00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:02.000 would have said it's ridiculous, said for years in my classes that you're not 457 00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:06.400 going to be slot misses. Now I spend a lot of time doing it. 458 00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:14.320 And it's as a and it's because, yeah, as a consumer and 459 00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.039 Gamily with an Edges. Even though I'm a host, I still get I 460 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:22.960 get to listen to what these guys say and some of which I've applied personally. 461 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:30.119 And another advantage I had when I would get the same guy coming back 462 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:36.440 they year and a half later, I would frequently go back and listen to 463 00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:45.000 his earlier episode to refresh what we talked about before and what in mind, 464 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:50.559 what his individual stick was, and I would hear things that I had missed 465 00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:53.880 the first time around. And so if when I only listened to him once, 466 00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:59.400 I don't like watching a movie twice. You see things. If you 467 00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:01.880 watch a movie twice, you see something different in the second time than you 468 00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:07.199 did in the first time. And so I frequently did that, and that 469 00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:14.480 helped my personal gambling career absolutely. I'll add to that you always had a 470 00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:20.280 very wide spectrum of guests. It wasn't just Blackjack Hall of famers, it 471 00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:23.559 wasn't just known advantage players. Sometimes it was people that I had never heard 472 00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:30.119 of and I had no idea that they even existed in the world. And 473 00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:34.599 I've probably made some contact based on listening to somebody on Gambling with the Edge 474 00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:37.880 and going that's a really smart person. I need to find a way to 475 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:42.199 get in touch with them and maybe work with them in the future. It 476 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:45.159 was a great way to kind of get your name out there if you were 477 00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:49.000 an advantage player and you know, there's two sides of that coin. You 478 00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:53.079 sometimes had guests on that's what's the phrase. But I think Mark Twain is 479 00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:59.159 like, better to be a fool and not expose yourself by opening your mouth 480 00:35:59.239 --> 00:36:02.719 or something like that. Um. There we there's many guests that I've gone, 481 00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:07.280 wow, I gotta steer clear of that guy. Like so it goes, 482 00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:10.239 it goes both ways. Yeah, they're definitely ye guest who will be 483 00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:17.239 making our farewell tour appearance. Yeah. Yeah, But and that is one 484 00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:22.280 of the criticisms of the show is that, Yeah, sometimes a guest will 485 00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:25.039 get on and you know, I mean, we don't know all these people, 486 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:29.440 right, and and you think they're going to be a good guest, 487 00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:31.920 and then you get them on and you're like, oh my god, you 488 00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:37.719 know, um but you know you still I mean, we have to fill 489 00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:42.800 fifty two weeks a year, so um And and that has been one of 490 00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:50.360 the struggles in doing the show is doing that. Um. So yeah, 491 00:36:50.440 --> 00:36:53.079 So we have more questions for Captain Jack, but first we're going to do 492 00:36:53.559 --> 00:37:00.400 have a commercial break. If you're serious about card counting, the blackjack apprenticeshipbership 493 00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:04.079 is a great way to learn, train, network and get the resources you 494 00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:07.519 need to succeed. We've had quite a few guests on gambling with a nants 495 00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:12.559 who exclusively trained and got their start through Blackjack Apprenticeship. Check out the website 496 00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:16.639 at Blackjack Apprenticeship dot com. They have member forums, training software and guides 497 00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:21.800 to help you learn. That's Blacksack Apprenticeship dot com and you will find a 498 00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:24.920 link in the show notes video. Poker dot com is the best place to 499 00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:29.639 play lots of games. Sign up for the Gold membership eight ninety five a 500 00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:32.559 month or seventy nine ninety five a year. It's allows you to get correction 501 00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:37.719 on most of the game. Game of the Week is Max's Action Poker, 502 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:42.800 where you play six to ten coins per line and all the pay schedule categories 503 00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:46.000 from three of a kind and hire get bumped up, get a lot more 504 00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:52.280 valuable games. The more coins you play will also get more variants. It 505 00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:59.400 will require learning an entirely new strategy, brushes and straits, pay so much 506 00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:01.760 more to what you're used to. Your intuition will be way off on how 507 00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:07.480 to play, and without studying it will not be particularly difficult as existing video 508 00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:13.519 poker software is fully capable of creating a new strategude for you. Everyone seems 509 00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:16.239 to me talking about sports betting lately. If you're looking to learn more about 510 00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:21.199 how you can profit from the sports betting gold rush, than unabated dot Com 511 00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:24.599 is a great resource for you. Founded by frequent gambling with an edge guest, 512 00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:30.199 Captain Jack, who's here with us today at rufus p Buddy, unabated 513 00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:35.280 dot Com has free educational articles and odd screens to help you shop launch if 514 00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:40.280 you've got props. Their Essentials tier has projections and simulators you won't find anywhere 515 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:46.119 else. Premium Tier membership adds an array of pricing calculators in game tools and 516 00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:52.719 the most advanced real time oddscreen available. Take a trial run with their tools 517 00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:57.199 to decide if unabated dot Com is right for you. All right, we're 518 00:38:57.239 --> 00:39:01.400 back talking with Captain Jack. Can I just say what an honor it was 519 00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:07.480 to be a commercial as sponsor on on your podcast. Trust me, there's 520 00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:10.840 a lot of advantage players out there that I know try to skip through the 521 00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:15.280 commercials as as efficiently as as possible. So to having been one of the 522 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.559 sponsors that people tried to skip over. Um, it was a little bit 523 00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:22.079 of an honor, but it was good to be associated with such an institution 524 00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:25.920 as your podcast. You know, thanks, I appreciate that, and I 525 00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:31.480 also I just want to add that, um uh, you know, for 526 00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:38.039 people who think that, um, I don't know whatever, there are sponsors 527 00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:43.360 that we turned down, like not everyone who wanted to be a sponsor, 528 00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:47.559 did we just take so uh. One to come that comes to mind is 529 00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:53.840 the ball shaver. Bob refused to shave his balls, um with this thing. 530 00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:57.920 So but anyway, so I just wanted to point that out, that 531 00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:02.719 that we were selective in who we accepted as sponsors. Bob refused to talk 532 00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:10.519 about shaving his fault all right now, is anything coming up in the near 533 00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:16.639 future Unabated that our listeners should listen to, should be aware of. So 534 00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:21.400 I like to say, Unabated it's a lot like Disneyland, because you go 535 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.159 to Disneyland and there's always something new. Now, there's all the traditional things 536 00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:28.320 that you always want to see when you go to Disneyland, but there's always 537 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:32.119 a new ride. And we've Walt Disney said Disneyland will never be finished. 538 00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:36.239 Well, Unabated will never be finished. We're always adding something new. We're 539 00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:39.519 always kind of finding a better way to present something or a more efficient way 540 00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:45.920 of presenting it. So we currently have an array of tools for baseball. 541 00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:51.079 We're getting started into the baseball season here we have the main push lately have 542 00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:55.360 been towards prop bets. I think there's more liquidity being offered in prop bets 543 00:40:55.360 --> 00:41:00.519 than ever before in sports betting. I think NFL props are a viable play 544 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:05.000 for a lot of advantage players that may have thought that prop plays are just 545 00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:08.760 too esoteric to be able to last long at a sports book. I think 546 00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:14.119 you can last betting NFL props. I think you can last betting some NBA 547 00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:16.599 props, and I'm hoping to see some of the same thing with baseball props 548 00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:22.760 going forward. So we have a tool that allows people to simulate player performance 549 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:30.400 based on the projections they give and convert a mean projection and average projection into 550 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:34.719 a median projection, because sports books put out a line based on the median 551 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.840 line, not based on the mean. And that's an important part that I 552 00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:42.440 think a lot of people never really realize when it comes to sports betting, 553 00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:45.719 is you're betting against a medium, not against a means, so you reach 554 00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:51.920 that medium by running simulations, and so we have stimulation tools that users can 555 00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:57.320 use. We also have some partial game derivative calculators coming out to attack not 556 00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:00.719 only first five inning lines, but first three and first seven inning lines. 557 00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:05.679 That's something that some of these bigger, newer sports books are putting out there, 558 00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:09.679 and it kind of lends to Richard's comment earlier about they keep coming out 559 00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:13.840 with new stuff and maybe they're making a mistake. Well, you know, 560 00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:17.159 maybe they're making a mistake in first three inning lines or first seven inning lines. 561 00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:22.159 So we're going to have that in addition to the first five inning lines 562 00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:24.719 that some sports books have out there. Most sports books have first five, 563 00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:29.920 some have first three and first seven. And I'll give a point here to 564 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:35.239 this is how edges show up is member as we're coming out of COVID, 565 00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:39.599 the Major League Baseball started doing seven inning games with their double headers, So 566 00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:43.719 if you had a double header, it was two seven inning games. Well, 567 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.079 there was a sports book I knew that had lines on the first three 568 00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:53.280 innings of a game, and they reached that line by basically dividing the total 569 00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:59.199 or the side by three. So if the game total was nine, they'd 570 00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:02.280 make the first three inning line to be three. Well, when you had 571 00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:07.800 a seven inning double header, they divided that number that total by three. 572 00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:12.599 So you can see you quickly, like you might have been a normal mine 573 00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:15.119 inning game, you might have like over under three. Well they were making 574 00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:19.159 with a seven inning game and a total being more like six or seven, 575 00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:22.760 they were making like over under one and a half for the first three innings, 576 00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:25.400 and they didn't realize it for the longest time. Like this went on 577 00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:30.280 for months and months and months where they just didn't realize that they had that 578 00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:35.239 blind spot in how they were creating their lines, you know, And it 579 00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:37.039 goes back to that, well, what's the art of getting the money down? 580 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.199 Well, sometimes the art of getting money down is giving them the best 581 00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:43.760 in a way that they want to see it. And sports books love to 582 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:47.519 see parlays. So I was going through and I was parlaying these anytime that 583 00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:52.599 there was multiple double headers to be had, or even parlaying both games with 584 00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:55.800 the double header to have the over one and a half on the first three 585 00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:00.639 innings of both of the double header games, things like that. So that's 586 00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:04.079 just an example of like there's always going to be blind spots out there, 587 00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:07.199 you just have to keep your eyes open to find them. But usually those 588 00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:13.239 blind spots are not going to be in the total of in you know, 589 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:19.159 NFL or MLB. It's not just going to be betting aside, right, 590 00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:22.239 but it could be in some derivative markets, like alternate lines. And that's 591 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:27.079 one of the first ones we created at Debated was to be able to price 592 00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.639 out what an alternate line should be. So if the game line in an 593 00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:36.280 NFL game is six, well, what about if you're able to find minus 594 00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:37.960 seven, what should that be priced at? Or what if you find an 595 00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:42.519 alternate line like minus eight and a half or minus ten and a half, 596 00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:45.599 what should be the accurate price of that? Because that's often where you find 597 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:50.360 inefficiencies in the market. And then that Quinta lends to like, okay, 598 00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:54.480 well, you can use these alternate line calculators to calculate what optimal teaser prices 599 00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:59.480 should be and other kind of promotional things where maybe they're like, you know, 600 00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:04.840 add three points on each team's score this week, and here you make 601 00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:07.599 this parlay out of it, and you can find out how much that should 602 00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:10.000 be priced at. All these tools that allow users to say, Okay, 603 00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:15.039 I have a giant sandbox here and they're they're they're offering me this bet. 604 00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:20.559 I can kind of construct in this sandbox how I need to approach this bet, 605 00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:23.199 what the math is behind it, without unabated saying oh, hey, 606 00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:25.960 look right here, this is where you have an edge. By doing this, 607 00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.719 you can kind of find your edge yourself. You can teach the person 608 00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:35.159 to fish rather than just feed them a fish. Yeah, I was. 609 00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:40.679 I enjoy one of the things I just had figured out so much. What 610 00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:47.880 you just said was you found this edge and so you parlayed it two edges 611 00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:53.400 together, partly to the sguise that that's where the edge was. Just hit 612 00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:59.119 each of the edges individually, it would be a lot clear to the sports 613 00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:04.440 book exactly where your edge was. But when you're parlaying it for aren't thing 614 00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:10.960 you hit less often but a bigger amounts. But if this guy's feature and 615 00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:19.079 video poker players need you to disguise themselves all the time. And that was 616 00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:23.199 an area that I didn't realize that sports betters did. Yeah. Absolutely, 617 00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:28.920 because look, when you are betting an edge and you are kind of identified 618 00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:31.440 as a sharp better, they're gonna say, like Hey, what is this 619 00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:37.079 guy doing? You know what if Richard in your book Emily Wizard's still one 620 00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:39.559 of my favorite books. You mentioned you were talking. I was in the 621 00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:43.719 I think the Doyle Brunson part of the book, and I think you asked 622 00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:45.440 him, do you ever do anything else like card counting or something like that? 623 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:49.880 And Doyle's like, well, if the casino where to see me at 624 00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:52.199 a blackjack table, they're gonna say, you know, what's what's Dolly doing 625 00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:55.239 at the blackjack table? He must have an edge at the blackjack table? 626 00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:59.480 What do we got going on there? You know? Similarly, like you 627 00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:04.559 know, if somebody he knew who Richard Munchkin was and saw him doing this 628 00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:06.880 at a casino, they go, well, he clearly has an edge. 629 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:08.920 He wouldn't play a game that doesn't have an edge. So sometimes you need 630 00:47:08.960 --> 00:47:13.039 to disguise who you are to the casino, even when they don't see you, 631 00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:15.400 even like in a sports book operator online, they just don't they don't 632 00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:19.400 see you. They just they just see the name, and you know, 633 00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:22.400 you kind of throw them off the scent. And maybe maybe that means you're 634 00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:24.440 making a lot of parlays in your first ten twenty bets at a at a 635 00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:29.400 sports book. Ela who Foystel mentioned that when he was on your show a 636 00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:34.239 while back. H you know, maybe you're using look parlays increased variants, 637 00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:38.679 right, But round robins are a very popular way to do parley bets, 638 00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:45.039 and they actually reduce variants of parlay bets because they basically take all the permutations 639 00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:49.840 of a parlay between multiple teams. And so sports book see somebody making a 640 00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:52.639 round robin bet and they go, ah, this guy's just he's like an 641 00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:57.239 action junkie. He's just looking for action and all these different parlay options. 642 00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:01.239 And sometimes like that's actually good the advantage player because you're making the parlay bet, 643 00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:06.239 but you're also lowering your variant. So sometimes round robins are a good 644 00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:09.159 way to approach it that looks square, but you're actually being sharp. Many 645 00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:14.239 different ways that you can be in a sports book finding your bets and still 646 00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:17.480 come across as somebody who doesn't have an edge. I want to make two 647 00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:27.920 points. One is that variance is really good for the players. And to 648 00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:31.800 give you an example from video poker, there are people who if they hit 649 00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:37.440 a twelve hundred and fifty dollars jack Pott. They will hit the double up 650 00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:44.760 feature because it means that their expectation is exactly the same. But half the 651 00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:50.159 time they're only getting half as many W two gs. So yes, it 652 00:48:50.199 --> 00:48:53.119 means that you may lose that twelve hundred and fifty dollars half the time, 653 00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:58.159 but you know the other half you're going to get twenty five hundreds, but 654 00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:01.559 you've made you've gotten one less W two G out of it, which eats 655 00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:07.960 up your time sitting there at the machine. Also, it's much more likely 656 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:12.400 for you too, for you to look like a loser. Right, It's 657 00:49:12.519 --> 00:49:16.880 it's much better to have a player that, um, you know, loses 658 00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:20.719 small, small, small, small, small, and then one day he 659 00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:25.159 hits, you know, twenty thousand dollars on some being hit that looks like 660 00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:30.000 a degenerate gambler to the to the casino. Um. The other thing is, 661 00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:35.559 if your edge is big enough, then there are times where you could 662 00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:40.760 make parlays on things that where you have your big edge, but the other 663 00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:45.960 the other legs of the parlay maybe don't even have an edge at all. 664 00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:51.559 But your edge is so big on the one that you're trying to disguise that 665 00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:57.559 it's okay to take that, even if it's small negative on those things to 666 00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:00.840 hide what it is you're doing up. And I know some people agree. 667 00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:07.800 Some people would just like hate the idea of you know, doing anything negative. 668 00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:14.760 You know, but if you have something that's really really strong, well 669 00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:19.000 it's okay to give away some money in what I would call advertising, like 670 00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:22.559 like for example, you know, you tip a lot when you have a 671 00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:27.159 really good hole card game. You can afford it, and you know it 672 00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:35.400 helps. Speaking of tipping the play that Richard mentioned of doubling up, when 673 00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:40.360 you get a twelve hundred and fifty dollars, you're only tipping half the time. 674 00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:46.800 So even if it's the same ev on the play tip on every w 675 00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:52.920 TG, you're only tipping half the time. And so for most people, 676 00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:57.599 a tip on twenty five hundred and a tip on twelve fifty would be their 677 00:50:57.719 --> 00:51:05.679 same minimal amounts for thing at your tipping costs in half, which UM definitely 678 00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:12.760 positive. Yeah, So we're getting close to the end of our hour. 679 00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:19.840 Any if this is going to be likely your last trip on gambling with an 680 00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:22.719 Edge? Do you have any last words for our listeners? I, you 681 00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:27.039 know, I just I just want to say thank you. Like I mentioned, 682 00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:30.960 you have been very influential in the my journey as an advantage player, 683 00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:36.559 and not just you, Bob, but the show and the topic of the 684 00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:39.079 show, and how the show has kind of been there week after week over 685 00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:46.280 the years. So I think that's I think that's my biggest takeaway is I 686 00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:51.719 still remember the first time I was asked to come on, I probably spent 687 00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:57.960 twelve to fifteen hours writing out all of my replies and then memorizing all my 688 00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:01.920 replies so it wouldn't sound like I was reading anything. And you know, 689 00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:06.719 I've been on subsequent times since then, and occasionally it'll just be I just 690 00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:07.920 kind of send a couple of notes saying, oh, here's a topic that 691 00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:12.239 I could talk about, and then we just wing it. So it's it's 692 00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:15.159 come a long way since the early days when I had to memorize was like 693 00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:21.320 six pages of type notes that I wanted to sound authentic without sounding like I 694 00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:24.719 was reading it. Yeah, well, thank you. You've been a great 695 00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:32.599 guest over the years, Yes, and very great guest, and I'm glad 696 00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:37.599 to have become your friend over the last five or six seven years. It 697 00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:43.880 was I appreciate that definitely, all right at the end of the show, 698 00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:51.679 we have recommended Richard, you have a recommended for our listeners. Yeah. 699 00:52:51.840 --> 00:53:00.800 My recommended this week is a podcast called People I mostly Admire, and I've 700 00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:07.199 recommended this podcast in the past different particular guests. It's an interview podcast with 701 00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:12.519 Steve Levitt, who wrote Free Economics, one of the authors of Free Economics. 702 00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:15.719 And this week the guest, I think it was this week, maybe 703 00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:23.079 last week is doctor Peter Atilla, and he has done a deep dive into 704 00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:30.039 the study of longevity, and so the interview is about longevity and the things 705 00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:35.960 you can do to live longer. And he has a new book out called 706 00:53:36.119 --> 00:53:43.320 Outlive, The Science and Art of Longevity, and the interview was fascinating, 707 00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:47.119 you know, because Levitt is an economist, there's a lot of stats in 708 00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:54.639 there as opposed to yeah, I think you should eat more whatever. So 709 00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:59.639 anyway, I have ordered the book. I haven't read the book yet, 710 00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:05.320 but the podcast was fascinating and if you're at all interested in health and longevity, 711 00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:08.559 I would recommend you listen to it and then you will know very quickly 712 00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:14.000 whether it's a book you're interested in reading. And it's one I certainly am. 713 00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:21.239 Yeah, and I've spoken about longevity and number of times about my search 714 00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:25.000 for that. And I have a new author on the subject. Name is 715 00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:34.760 Dan Buttneruet and here he has two or three books. They all have blue 716 00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:42.199 Zones in the title. And a blue zone is an area where there's a 717 00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:49.480 high proportion of one hundred year old plus people living. And there's some in 718 00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:55.400 the Pacific, there's some in California, and there's some in Central America, 719 00:54:55.519 --> 00:55:02.400 and there's some int training area. And his books discover what they have in 720 00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:10.119 common, how you can apply those lessons to wherever you're living. And so 721 00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:15.440 I kind of simultaneously reading two of his books, the Blue Zone Solution and 722 00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:20.880 The Blue Zone r itself, and then he has another one, one Recipe, 723 00:55:21.400 --> 00:55:23.360 and so I'm not finished with him yet, but I'm enjoying what I'm 724 00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:30.840 reading. And so it's the same general subject is what Richard's talking about. 725 00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:34.599 I wasn't going to have it recommended until he said that, and then it's 726 00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:38.360 gone, oh yeah, well I can talk about that. So, Captain 727 00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:43.239 Jack, do you have a recommended for our listeners? I do, But 728 00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:45.920 after this this love fest that I've had over the past hour with you guys, 729 00:55:46.400 --> 00:55:51.840 it's gonna sound a little repetitive, but honestly, the archives of Gambling 730 00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:57.599 with an edge like there are some great things to discover. Any Bobner ses 731 00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:04.239 seen episode, any Russell Fox episode, any Anthony Curtis episode, any Frank 732 00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:07.480 b episode like those are some of the tops that you know you're going to 733 00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:12.199 get quality information and it's going to be entertaining. And even in the case 734 00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:16.440 of Russell Box with the tax stuff, it's it's still knowledgeable information. And 735 00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:20.639 the if you go some of the really the deeper cut that I've found the 736 00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:25.199 most interesting small cap growth when you guys had him on, that's a hilarious 737 00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:32.400 episode or two. The episode with Prax and the episodes with Phoenix. Look 738 00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:37.960 those up. I'm not saying they're going to be the best thing you ever 739 00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:43.719 heard, but they're entertaining. I'll leave it at that. So I look 740 00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:46.760 forward to going back in the in the archives from time to time in the 741 00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:51.480 future when I feel like I need a little Bob and Richard fix and listening 742 00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:54.639 to some of those old episodes. Well, thank you, this is a 743 00:56:54.719 --> 00:57:01.880 love fish. We're having a nice little bromance here on our our farewell tour. 744 00:57:02.199 --> 00:57:07.239 Thank you very much. Jack on good luck with future of unabated, 745 00:57:08.199 --> 00:57:13.360 Thank you very much. Richard Well had lots of oil flushes. Everybody, 746 00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:15.239 good day,