1 00:00:08,519 --> 00:00:13,080 Good afternoon. You're listening to Gambling with an Edge. Now here are your 2 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:18,839 host Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin. Good afternoon, Welcome to Gambling with an 3 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,960 Edge. I'm Bob Dancer and I'm Richard Munchkin. Today our guest is Captain 4 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:31,559 Jack Andrews, one of the principles and co founder of unabated dot com who 5 00:00:32,039 --> 00:00:37,560 talks about all things sports betting related. Captain Jack, Welcome back to Gambling 6 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,960 with an Edge. It's a pleasure to be here, guys. I guess 7 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,479 this is the Farewell Tour, so I'm honored to be one of the guests 8 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,320 on the on the farewell Tour. Yes, and right now, we don't 9 00:00:48,399 --> 00:00:55,679 know how long this Farewell Tour is going to last. We hum when we 10 00:00:55,719 --> 00:01:00,359 announced it last week. In the next two days, we've got four emails 11 00:01:00,439 --> 00:01:04,079 from people who want to be part of the tour and they seem to keep 12 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,959 coming. So I don't know if anybody's going to let us retire, but 13 00:01:07,079 --> 00:01:11,680 we're trying. So in the meantime, let's have a good show today with 14 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:22,319 Captain Jack. All right, So, last December, Unabated put out a 15 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:29,239 new tool that some of your users have been able to use to extract a 16 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:34,719 considerable amount of money from sports books. What happened. Yeah, So here's 17 00:01:34,719 --> 00:01:40,640 the funny thing about sports betting is when we started Unabated, one of the 18 00:01:40,799 --> 00:01:45,920 main detraction point of detractions was what if they suck all the edges out of 19 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,640 sports betting, then there'll be nothing left for everybody else. And what we've 20 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,719 found in the two plus years that we've been around is edges keep on showing 21 00:01:53,799 --> 00:02:00,400 up. There are always new ways that sports betting is expanding throughout the country, 22 00:02:00,599 --> 00:02:04,519 and as a result, there's new edges to be found just about every 23 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,599 day. And we put out a tool in December. Now let me let 24 00:02:07,639 --> 00:02:12,439 me just cavy out this by saying, I'm a firm believer that discretion is 25 00:02:12,439 --> 00:02:15,919 the better part of valor. So I don't want to spell everything out implicitly 26 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,639 here, explicitly here, because I don't want other sports books to say, 27 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,879 oh, okay, well, here's what we can learn from this, and 28 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,759 here's how we could protect ourselves from this. I'm talking more to the players. 29 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,479 And so we put out a tool. And this tool was intended for 30 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:37,199 one thing. It was intended for It was intended for football, and we 31 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:43,479 found just through coincidence, that this tool could point towards edges in basketball, 32 00:02:44,319 --> 00:02:47,439 and our user base quickly found this out as well. And there was a 33 00:02:47,479 --> 00:02:53,680 major US sports book, one of the bigger brands that's out there, that 34 00:02:53,879 --> 00:02:58,439 had a couple different inefficiencies in how they were making their markets. And I 35 00:02:58,479 --> 00:03:00,120 don't want to again, I don't want to spell it all out, but 36 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:06,520 they were doing multiple things in an inefficient manner, and our users picked up 37 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,360 on it. Rufus and I picked up on it. In fact, we 38 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,560 had a discussion shortly after this tool became public going man, if we would 39 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,360 have realized that this was going on, maybe we wouldn't have made this tool. 40 00:03:16,719 --> 00:03:23,199 And long story short, our users were able to use this tool to 41 00:03:23,159 --> 00:03:30,599 find edges in a basketball market and do so to great profitability. In fact, 42 00:03:31,479 --> 00:03:36,840 in the first week of March, the major sports book finally realized the 43 00:03:36,919 --> 00:03:40,319 error of their ways and they kind of changed a couple of things that caused 44 00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:45,199 it no longer to be as great an edge there. But we took a 45 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,759 poll and found that our users had already made somewhere between six and eight million 46 00:03:49,759 --> 00:03:54,400 dollars they had taken from this sports book in the roughly three months, and 47 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:00,479 it wasn't something that got blasted all around Twitter or anything like that. That 48 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,080 wasn't how the edge finally got under uncovered. It was probably just due to 49 00:04:03,719 --> 00:04:06,159 the sports book saying, wait a minute, our numbers, we don't seem 50 00:04:06,199 --> 00:04:10,759 to be holding as much in this market as we once were, but our 51 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,120 users who did a great job in finding the edge and then sort of kind 52 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,800 of keeping it on the down low, not blasting it around to everyone else. 53 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:23,199 We make a point at unabated to kind of teach not only the science 54 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:28,519 of sports betting, but also the art of sports betting, and they find 55 00:04:28,639 --> 00:04:31,399 that sometimes you need to be a little discreete and how you handle things. 56 00:04:31,519 --> 00:04:35,000 You need to go about things in a way that not only allows you to 57 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,680 get the money down, but also allows you to stay under the radar or 58 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,399 stay outside of the radar that many sports books are looking at when they're trying 59 00:04:44,399 --> 00:04:47,480 to find what the shark betters are on and who's beating them. But I 60 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:53,879 think we did a very good job, you know, pulling off that substantial 61 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,839 score from that major sports book was a big boost to a lot of users 62 00:04:58,879 --> 00:05:00,680 on our site as well as as well as to Rufus and I and the 63 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,600 other founders that Unabated because it kind of helped prove that, uh, you 64 00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:08,759 know, there was an edge out there. Nobody else really picked up on 65 00:05:08,759 --> 00:05:12,040 it. We quietly were able to help our users kind of get the money 66 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,600 and it was a success story for us. I want to be clear that 67 00:05:16,439 --> 00:05:23,240 the tool was there, but but there wasn't anything at Unabated that was saying 68 00:05:23,319 --> 00:05:28,040 to the players, hey, look at this, here's you know, here's 69 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,319 a big edge for you. That's correct, right, right, So the 70 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,959 tool was out there just to be used against any sports book in any market, 71 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:42,560 and it was able to everyone kind of thinks of this tool as being 72 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,639 focused on football. Stamford Wong made it a very popular way to approach football. 73 00:05:46,759 --> 00:05:49,399 There's that's probably too big of a hint, but I'll throw that out 74 00:05:49,399 --> 00:05:54,360 there, and people were used. We were able to use this tool to 75 00:05:54,399 --> 00:05:57,759 apply it to basketball, and it was, you know, sort of one 76 00:05:57,759 --> 00:06:00,399 of these things that kind of popped up in our community discord that we have. 77 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,360 We have a community of like minded betters that all kind of correspond with 78 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,720 each other on the discord, and uh, you know, it got posted 79 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,879 a few times, like, hey, does anyone have as anyone tried this, 80 00:06:13,079 --> 00:06:15,040 and once I looked at it, I go, oh wow, that's 81 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,319 that's that's really powerful. And it sort of kind of went from there, 82 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,639 and like I said, I kind of I kind of preached to these people 83 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,759 that hey, look, discretion is the better part of valor. That's something 84 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,319 I've learned early in my AP career that you definitely need to figure out the 85 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,160 best way to approach and edge rather than just kind of just blasted all over 86 00:06:35,199 --> 00:06:39,720 the universe. So, yeah, the tool was very agnostic and how it 87 00:06:39,759 --> 00:06:42,920 approached things, but it was able to kind of uncover something that people just 88 00:06:42,959 --> 00:06:48,879 really didn't think was possible. So you originally started out gambling as a black 89 00:06:48,959 --> 00:06:56,879 deck player and moved into sports. Did you see um correlations between you know, 90 00:06:56,959 --> 00:07:00,639 being a card counter and sports betting. Yeah, you know, Richard, 91 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,959 I started out as a blackcheck player as a card counter, And that's 92 00:07:04,959 --> 00:07:08,160 one of the reasons I kind of wanted to come on gambling with an edge, 93 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,639 is because gambling with an edge was always very influential in my career, 94 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,680 in my personal evolution as an advantaged player. I was able to kind of 95 00:07:16,759 --> 00:07:23,680 learn about things that maybe I wouldn't have otherwise learned about by listening to episodes 96 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,759 of Gambling with an Edge, and I go all the way back, Bob, 97 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,680 I go back when I would have to tune into an internet link for 98 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,560 a radio station somewhere in Vegas, and the show was just aired at that 99 00:07:33,639 --> 00:07:36,800 time, and if I missed it, I missed it until it showed up 100 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:42,439 in some archives somewhere. You know, it wasn't necessarily a regular podcast like 101 00:07:42,439 --> 00:07:46,480 it is these days. And I learned about a lot of new things in 102 00:07:46,319 --> 00:07:51,399 advantage Play, and I guess one of them was sports betting. You know, 103 00:07:51,439 --> 00:07:56,279 maybe those early episodes with like Frank b or somebody like that, that 104 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,800 really kind of piqued my interest into what's out there. And I found over 105 00:08:00,839 --> 00:08:05,079 the years that sports betting and card counting are not as far apart as people 106 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,920 might think. It's all about it's all about game selection. It's all about 107 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,319 quantifying your edge. It's all about betting your edge. It's all about getting 108 00:08:13,319 --> 00:08:16,959 the money down when you have an edge. And you know, for a 109 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:22,879 card counter picking the right casino to play in is a huge part of the 110 00:08:22,879 --> 00:08:26,279 battle, right you know, everyone knows this. You got to find the 111 00:08:26,319 --> 00:08:30,199 games that are beatable. Not all the games are beating and the right table 112 00:08:30,279 --> 00:08:35,080 within that casino exactly like you got to find you know, what games are 113 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,879 being dealt, and sports betting similar you got to find what sports have a 114 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,679 beatable, have some kind of inefficiency that's beatable. You need to find the 115 00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:46,840 right sports books to play at. You need to find where the edges are 116 00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:50,000 at. You need to quantify your edge, right, you need to say, 117 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:54,039 and now, in card counting, it's very simple. Oh, it's 118 00:08:54,039 --> 00:08:58,120 all based on a fifty two card finite deck or you know, a multiple 119 00:08:58,159 --> 00:09:01,200 of that in a shoe game, and so it's easy to quantify your edge. 120 00:09:01,279 --> 00:09:05,519 In sports betting, it's a little harder to quantify your edge because you 121 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:11,080 don't know the exact quantification of how the game is going to play out. 122 00:09:11,639 --> 00:09:18,159 However, it's all about being less wrong than the bookmaker. And so if 123 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,399 you're using sort of like that, we call this the top down method. 124 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,320 You're looking to sources of truth within the market that are sharper than the rest 125 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,840 of the market, and when they move, you move, and you play 126 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:35,840 those lines at the less sharp books that are that are more wrong than the 127 00:09:35,919 --> 00:09:39,320 market makers, and you can profit that way, and you can quantify your 128 00:09:39,399 --> 00:09:41,320 edge that way, and you say, oh, I have a two point 129 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:46,919 four percent advantage based on what this sharp book has the line at, and 130 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:52,720 then you know you can bet Kelly criterion subsequent to a two point four percent 131 00:09:52,759 --> 00:09:56,360 edge, although you probably wouldn't bet full Kelly in sports betting. You bet 132 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,799 more of like a half or a quarter Kelly. And that was kind of 133 00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:03,720 the it is behind Unabated We we built these tools that people probably don't have 134 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:09,960 on their own in order to help them find the edge using our odd screen, 135 00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:13,799 quantify your edge using our various edge tools that basically show right on the 136 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,720 screen you have a two point four percent edge if you bet this at Caesar's 137 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,840 Sportsbook relative to the unabated line, which is the unabated line is your your 138 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,159 market maker truth line, and you know, and then we have various tools 139 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:33,320 for helping you to get the money down, maybe in derivative markets or alternate 140 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,039 line markets, or maybe you're just here for the education and talking about the 141 00:10:37,159 --> 00:10:41,639 art of sports betting. It's a lot like card counting, where you kind 142 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,159 of you basically rinse and repeat and you grind out your edge over time, 143 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,440 and you can always learn a little bit more about ways to beat blackjack, 144 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,720 just like you can always learn a little bit more about ways to beat sports 145 00:10:52,720 --> 00:11:00,919 betting. Yeah, anything else, yeah, yeah, or any form of 146 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,919 gambling right right. I was talking to my son the other day and he 147 00:11:05,039 --> 00:11:09,639 said, you know, you could be the smartest mass genius in the world 148 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:16,080 and find a way to get a big edge at sports betting. But if 149 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,960 you only have one account, you can't make any money. I mean even 150 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,919 if you have one account at every sports book. So to really make money, 151 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:31,559 you need a lot of outs. And which do you think is actually 152 00:11:31,639 --> 00:11:37,639 more important finding being able to find the edge or being able to get actually 153 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,960 get the money down. Well, you know my answer to that, Richard, 154 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,480 because this is something I learned from gambling with an edge for years. 155 00:11:43,519 --> 00:11:48,120 Because you're you're the guy that I think put this into everyone's consciousness the most 156 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,840 over the years. Has been uh, you know, you're old saying of 157 00:11:52,039 --> 00:11:54,759 it's the gold mine that nobody's figured out how to get the gold out of 158 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:56,879 yet, or you know, you can have the science of something, but 159 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,159 the art of it is trying to get the money down. So absolutely getting 160 00:12:01,159 --> 00:12:05,080 the money down is big and just like a card counter. They don't ever 161 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,360 just play at one casino. That's no way to have a career or even 162 00:12:09,399 --> 00:12:13,240 a side hustle. As a card counter. You need to go around and 163 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,960 find where the games are, find the better games. Just like a sports 164 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:22,279 books sports better you need to be able to shop around find the ideal line. 165 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,159 We talk about the landmark book The Logic of Sports Betting by Ed Miller 166 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:31,559 and Matt David l And what they kind of put in everybody's head with that 167 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:39,159 book was this idea of synthetic hold, where your disadvantage against the sports book 168 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:46,799 is only as great as the best line at multiple different sports books. And 169 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,000 so if you have one shop that has seven mins one ten and you have 170 00:12:50,039 --> 00:12:54,120 another shop that has plus seven minus one oh five, well then you've already 171 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,840 kind of lowered the synthetic hold because you're not betting into a four and a 172 00:12:58,879 --> 00:13:03,440 half percent disavanta. You're betting into more like a like a three point two 173 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,159 percent disadvantage. And if you get enough sports books and you shop enough lines, 174 00:13:07,919 --> 00:13:11,080 you can find that synthetic hole gets lower and lower. Look, we're 175 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:16,320 into baseball season now, and baseball is probably the king sport of synthetic hole 176 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,679 being low. You can shop around and you can basically find no more than 177 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,320 a one percent disadvantage when it comes to betting baseball based on the best line 178 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,759 of l but multiple books now you're still betting into a disadvantage, which for 179 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:33,639 many of your listeners is not something they kurt want to do. But when 180 00:13:33,639 --> 00:13:37,720 you have that many different options, you sometimes have a synthetic edge, a 181 00:13:37,759 --> 00:13:41,399 synthetic house edge that goes against the casino and as an advantage for the player, 182 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,399 and you can get into arbitrage betting that way, and you can get 183 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:50,399 into situations where you have the edge over multiple books and zero risk. There's 184 00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:54,919 a lot of betters that love that, and yeah, getting the money down 185 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,399 is the hardest part. But if you can kind of get this large stable 186 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,360 of sports books that you can play at, maybe you're in a good state 187 00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:05,120 for sports betting, like Colorado in New Jersey and some others Ohios a kind 188 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,879 of an up and coming state. You have a lot of options. And 189 00:14:09,919 --> 00:14:11,639 then if you don't have a lot of options, well you always have friends, 190 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,720 right, and maybe you're friends that are willing to put a bet down 191 00:14:15,799 --> 00:14:18,759 for you at a sports book that they have access to and you kind of 192 00:14:18,759 --> 00:14:22,440 work as a team that way, a little bit of a division of labor, 193 00:14:22,559 --> 00:14:24,320 right. You come up with the plays use maybe using a site like 194 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,279 unabated, and you send them out to your friends and they get the bets 195 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,720 down, and you know, you kind of group all your funds together and 196 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,519 and pretty soon you find that you know, you're a you're a pretty good 197 00:14:35,559 --> 00:14:41,159 little mini syndicate there attacking sports betting. How do you see sports betting in 198 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:46,120 five years or ten years from now? Uh, you know, that's that's 199 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,679 a big question that I think a lot of people are trying to approach, 200 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:54,480 both people in the industry as well as advantage players who want to know what's 201 00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:58,440 the next wave. You know, I've talked about that in the past. 202 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,720 It's like you always need to be a little at what's coming next when it 203 00:15:01,759 --> 00:15:05,919 comes to any form of advantage play. And so if you're able to have 204 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:07,799 a crystal ball and you don't want to use it to find out who's going 205 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,039 to win the World Series this year, but you want to use it for 206 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:15,279 you know, where is this industry headed? You kind of have to look 207 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,159 at what we've seen in other countries that are a little bit further along the 208 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:24,360 evolutionary scale than the United States is, and what we've seen is that sports 209 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:30,399 betting tends to give way to fewer operators. You know, I think there's 210 00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:33,279 going to be more consolidation as some of the smaller operators just don't see the 211 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:41,159 profit in the relatively low margin of sports betting. And we've seen that sports 212 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,240 book operators tend to, because of that low margin, tend to dream up 213 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:48,720 ways to get more of your money. So they're dreaming of things like the 214 00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:54,879 single game parlay, where you know, the the edge is significantly higher, 215 00:15:54,320 --> 00:16:00,279 or they want to talk you into playing microbetting where you're betting on like at 216 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,519 batter even each pitch of a baseball game, each drive of a football game, 217 00:16:04,279 --> 00:16:10,200 and they tend to pack a lot more theoretical hold into those markets. 218 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,120 But the ultimate goal of any sports book operator in the United States right now 219 00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:21,279 is to get you towards their forthcoming internet casino. And many of you that 220 00:16:21,279 --> 00:16:23,080 are listening to this right now in the United States, you're like, well, 221 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,480 my States has sports betting, but they don't have internet casinos. Trust 222 00:16:26,519 --> 00:16:30,840 me, they will, they absolutely will. That's the end game here of 223 00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:34,440 all of this push towards legal legalization sports betting. They want to get to 224 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:40,039 the point where people are going to be using their internet casino. And why 225 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,519 is because the frequency of betting in an internet casino is so much higher than 226 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,840 sports betting. You can make a bet on a football game, and you 227 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,360 could sit down and watch that football game and you have your nice little sweat 228 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,759 there for three hours. Whereas you sit down at a slot machine and you 229 00:16:55,799 --> 00:16:59,639 make a bet, you're still not sitting there enjoying the machine. Three hours 230 00:16:59,679 --> 00:17:03,360 later. Your spin was done in six seconds, and you can make ten 231 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,000 of those bets in a minute, and you can make you six hundred bets 232 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:11,680 in an hour, and that's far more advantageous for the casino, you know, 233 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,880 for the house to take your money from you by having you bet into 234 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,440 these markets again and again and again more frequently. So they want to kind 235 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,680 of get us to the point where we're playing in their internet casinos. Now, 236 00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:27,400 do internet casinos offer any edge for the advantage player, It's yet to 237 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,640 be seen. Like we know, there's promotions and bonuses. We saw that 238 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:36,480 with the sports betting boom over the past five years or so. Look, 239 00:17:36,519 --> 00:17:40,480 I remember coming on gambling with an edge and talking about all of the opportunities 240 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,799 that are out there for betters to maybe fly to New Jersey and sign up 241 00:17:45,799 --> 00:17:48,839 for all these accounts and maybe make six to eight thousand dollars in an afternoon 242 00:17:49,319 --> 00:17:55,920 just going through all these promotions and bonuses. Those opportunities are gone that you 243 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,400 know, New Jersey is a very saturated state. You can still find some 244 00:17:59,519 --> 00:18:03,200 edges as new states pop up. We saw Massachusetts earlier in March, we 245 00:18:03,279 --> 00:18:07,079 saw Ohio in January, but they're not nearly as strong as they used to 246 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,359 be. And internet casinos they're going to be a certain wave of that. 247 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,680 But for the most part, you already signed up for their sports book. 248 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,839 They already have your name, they already have your information. They don't need 249 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,599 to entice you with a bonus, so they don't have as many people that 250 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:30,000 need the brand awareness. In terms of ap plays for casinos internet casinos, 251 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:33,599 there's going to be some of the same plays that are available to the slot 252 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,640 hustlers that are out there. Some of the same slot plays are going to 253 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:38,920 be there. Some of them won't be there, but some of them will. 254 00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:42,720 There's going to be progressives and things like that. One of the things 255 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:48,440 that I think I've found most refreshing about internet casinos in relation to land based 256 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:53,920 casinos is they all run on basically the same part sheet. They all have 257 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,000 the same probabilities, and they broadcast not broadcasts. They spell out those probabilities 258 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,359 in the help screens. So you can find a slot machine where the average 259 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:10,160 return, the average theoretical return is ninety six point seven percent, and it'll 260 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,440 say that right on the instruction screen. This game returns ninety six point seven 261 00:19:12,519 --> 00:19:18,039 percent over time. So those of you who want to kind of figure out 262 00:19:18,079 --> 00:19:22,359 how to find an edge at online slot machines, you can go ahead and 263 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,960 try to find that when they come to your area or you go to an 264 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,519 area that has them. There's not a lot of edges out there for online 265 00:19:29,519 --> 00:19:32,319 casinos, but I think there will be some, and there will be many 266 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:37,160 who who profit from it. Yeah. Boy, there's a lot a lot 267 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:42,640 to unpack there. But first I'd like to say that when you were talking 268 00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:48,799 about how the sports books want to push you to, you know, bet 269 00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:55,599 on every down in football or whatever, you know, there was this big 270 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,759 problem of you try to make those in game bets and you get the spinning 271 00:20:00,799 --> 00:20:04,680 wheel and then the bet doesn't go through unless you've already lost that kind of 272 00:20:04,759 --> 00:20:10,000 thing I mean is that's still a big problem, and how are people going 273 00:20:10,079 --> 00:20:15,559 to be able to bet that frequently if if that continues to be a problem. 274 00:20:17,279 --> 00:20:21,440 So we do still have that certain amount of lag time that favors the 275 00:20:21,519 --> 00:20:25,480 operator, it doesn't favor the better. That's sort of that free role against 276 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:30,359 the better. Now, we've had some advances over the years. Some of 277 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,920 the first advances have been in some of the operators. They they now are 278 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,000 trying to be a little bit more agile with that betting process. You know, 279 00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:41,920 you had Alex Kane from sport Trade on not too long ago and he 280 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,400 talked about how sport Trade has kind of taken away that spinning wheel, and 281 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,480 it's yes, it's an instantaneous you know, how much money is available to 282 00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:53,359 you to bet into. You can bet rapidly. There's far less friction in 283 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,759 that market. You get in and out of a position very easily. I 284 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,319 use sport Trade. I love sport Trade. It's very it's a very good 285 00:21:00,319 --> 00:21:03,400 product. In fact, a lot of my action these days are on the 286 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,960 exchanges here in New Jersey. But how are they going to kind of make 287 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,839 it so that that's a little bit more available to the general public. Well, 288 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,960 there's this company called simple Bet and they have been the pioneers in microbetting. 289 00:21:17,079 --> 00:21:22,400 Microbetting is betting on the smallest details in sporting events, such as, 290 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,039 you know, will this player have a strikeout, a walk, a hit, 291 00:21:26,559 --> 00:21:29,839 or make an out when they come up the bat in this inning. 292 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,279 And it's not as much rapid in terms of like the batters up to bat 293 00:21:34,599 --> 00:21:37,559 and you make this bet. It's sort of like you make this bet because 294 00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:41,720 they are the third batter do up in this inning, and you can make 295 00:21:41,759 --> 00:21:45,960 it sort of in advance, so it's not as instantaneous as you might think 296 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,240 when it comes to microbetting. But we're going to get there. And what 297 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:56,759 will be the driving catalyst of all of that is advances in broadcasting technology and 298 00:21:56,799 --> 00:22:02,359 we're starting to see that. We're starting to see they're coming up with ways 299 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,039 to make less and less latency in the broadcast of sporting events. And when 300 00:22:07,079 --> 00:22:11,960 that becomes available to both the operator and the better, that'll be a good 301 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,240 thing. If that is something that is only available to the operator, that's 302 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,559 a bad thing. The better is at a disadvantage. And what we're seeing 303 00:22:18,559 --> 00:22:22,519 with a lot of these streaming services out there is a better that's watching a 304 00:22:22,599 --> 00:22:26,559 game on YouTube or watching a game on some kind of streaming service like MLB 305 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:32,119 dot tv. You are a good minute and a half behind what's actually happening, 306 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,920 and the operators have access to the fastest feeds from sport Radar or from 307 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,079 Betting Is though, the two companies that handle most of the major sports leagues 308 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:48,279 and their live betting data, and they have the fastest feed, you don't 309 00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:52,079 have the fastest feed. There's an inequality there. Look at un Abated, 310 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:56,599 we actually contracted with sport Radar to get the fastest feed we could, and 311 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,799 we're pretty fast, like we're ahead of broadcast television when it comes to this 312 00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:03,000 doors for like the NBA, But we're still not ahead of the sports books 313 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,759 because the sports books have access to it and even faster fee that we can't 314 00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:11,319 as a company access. So there's always going to be an unlevel playing field 315 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,200 until we get to the point where there is full zero latency, and we're 316 00:23:15,319 --> 00:23:21,039 very close to zero latency and the betters and the bookies can be on the 317 00:23:21,079 --> 00:23:25,519 same playing field. But I don't know that the bookies are going to want 318 00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:27,079 that because that's just too much of a risk to them, and then they're 319 00:23:27,079 --> 00:23:30,319 going to start to build in the little delays like they have now the spinning 320 00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:33,440 wheels. So I don't know that it will ever be perfect, but we're 321 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,359 getting closer to perfect than we have in the past. I just want to 322 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,799 point out too that, sorry, Bob, I keep cutting you off, 323 00:23:41,839 --> 00:23:51,799 but when you're talking talking about adding these all these different kind of bets, 324 00:23:51,839 --> 00:23:56,559 this is a tremendous opportunity for players, just like for the card counters and 325 00:23:56,559 --> 00:24:03,000 the blackjack players when they start than adding all of these different carnival games. 326 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:10,559 Every time they add something or side bets, every time they add something new, 327 00:24:10,839 --> 00:24:17,400 it's an opportunity for them to screw up or to not realize that they 328 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,160 haven't fully analyzed what it is they're doing and that you may find vulnerability. 329 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,119 So absolutely, the more they throw out there, the better it is for 330 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,720 the players, because if there is no edge, well then you just don't 331 00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:34,039 have to bet on those things. Yeah, absolutely, Richard. We're not 332 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,559 on video right now, but I was nodding my head. I was kind 333 00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:42,680 of pumping my fist because that is exactly what any advantage player should welcome is 334 00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:48,559 the proliferation of this industry because they trust me, they're going to step in 335 00:24:48,599 --> 00:24:52,119 it, like they just can't help themselves. They're going to make mistakes. 336 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,759 Trust me. I know of plenty of mistakes that are out there that you 337 00:24:55,759 --> 00:25:00,200 know, I probably don't want to share because I can't believe how dumb they 338 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,880 are, Like they just there's too much surface area for them to defend. 339 00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:08,920 And the skill level on the operator side in sports betting is not as strong 340 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:15,000 as the skill level on the player side. And I don't think that I 341 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,440 don't think we're going to reach the kind of like a uniform distribution of skill 342 00:25:18,519 --> 00:25:22,680 level for quite a while because there's just very few people that have in the 343 00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:27,319 US at least that have experience in being a really good bookmaker. And this 344 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:33,079 industry doesn't seem to like want to pay to people what they're worth, and 345 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,000 they can make far more money on the player side and just you know, 346 00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:41,440 pick off the edges in whatever way they want to. And that's great for 347 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,240 any aspiring advantage player to continue to find new edges in sports betting. All 348 00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:48,319 right, I'm going to stick in a quick question before Richard was so root 349 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:55,839 it cuts me off again. You mentioned you mentioned casinos want to get you 350 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:03,000 onto their online apps. Well, in many states you have a bunch of 351 00:26:03,079 --> 00:26:08,599 bouts, whether it will just say Caesar's, MGM Van Duel and among others, 352 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:15,119 and on sites like unabated, they will tell you what the current price 353 00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:22,880 is on each of those sites, and the sites are probably eighty percent identical 354 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,519 at any given time. But Raftkings is going to be better in one direction 355 00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:36,119 on something and better at something else. The players can pick and choose whereas 356 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,759 using the online, whereas they couldn't do that so easily when they had to 357 00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:48,559 physically go to the sports books to place the bets. And because it's now, 358 00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:56,759 this is a huge advantage for the players and a disadvantage for casinos in 359 00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,880 the online. You agree with this, Oh, sure, absolutely, it's 360 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,559 it's definitely a huge advantage line shopping compared to what you used to have to 361 00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:11,759 do. Is I remember my earliest days going to Las Vegas and trying to 362 00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:17,000 do a little bit of line shopping. And I think I would maybe go 363 00:27:17,039 --> 00:27:19,960 across like I usually would stay at Center Strip area there and maybe I'd get 364 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,400 to the Imperial Palace and then maybe I would get too over to Caesar's and 365 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:26,799 then I would be like I just walked like two miles. I'm done, 366 00:27:27,039 --> 00:27:30,559 Like I'll just bet it here, you know, I don't care. And 367 00:27:30,599 --> 00:27:34,599 with spots betting these days, I can see what the line is. I 368 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,640 can see not only in the books. I have access to a New Jersey, 369 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,720 I can see offshore, I can see around the world. I can 370 00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:48,640 see exchanges in Europe, I can see sports books in Australia. And that 371 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,640 doesn't mean like I need to go bet there, you know. And I 372 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,440 think that's one of the misguided parts of regulation in the US is they tend 373 00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,160 to say all offshore betting is bad. You know, the bad actor is 374 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,240 offshore. No, that's all part of the ecosystem, all part of the 375 00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:08,079 economy. Like you don't watch CNBC and just focus on US stocks. You 376 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,680 focus on what the world is doing. Events overseas impact events in the United 377 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:18,519 States economy. So it's similar in sports betting. I want to see what 378 00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:22,039 the line is at Betfair, at Matchbook, at some of the bigger European 379 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:27,640 sports books, even on US sports because sometimes there's an influence there. And 380 00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:32,599 similarly, I want to see what the line is in Nevada at CERCA because 381 00:28:32,599 --> 00:28:34,960 I don't have circu out here in New Jersey, but I know Circus really 382 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,240 sharp, and I want to see what they have as their line and when 383 00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:41,440 their lines are moving, and how they're moving, and when their limits go 384 00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:45,319 up because they're willing to take more liquidity on a market because they're more certain 385 00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:49,200 of their number. It's all part of this market, and I think that's 386 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,119 one thing that advantage players need to understand when it comes to if they want 387 00:28:53,119 --> 00:28:56,759 to get involved in sports betting, if they're looking for an edge, even 388 00:28:56,799 --> 00:29:00,079 after gambling with an edge goes off the air, you need to approach this 389 00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:04,240 as if it's a living, breathing market and trying to see the intricacies of 390 00:29:04,279 --> 00:29:10,200 how the market moves and reacts. And baseball is not the same as football, 391 00:29:10,319 --> 00:29:12,559 is not the same as hockey. All of these markets kind of move 392 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,640 differently. There's different market makers in each market, and you kind of have 393 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,839 to learn that if you want to get involved in a certain market, you 394 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,799 don't need to learn the players and the coaches. You need to learn how 395 00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:26,440 the market moves and what it moves and reacts to. All right, let's 396 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:33,400 shift scars scars a little bit. You've been a listener to gambling with an 397 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,680 edge for a decade or so. Do you have any favorite memories? You 398 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:44,359 know, I have a lot of favorite memories of gambling with an edge because 399 00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:48,160 gambling with edge has been like an institution for me and for a lot of 400 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,279 advantage players out there. And we live in an age where there's plenty of 401 00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:56,359 podcasts these days, you like, look, I even have a podcast. 402 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:03,599 Everybody's got a podcast these days. And well, the thing of gambling an 403 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,519 edge was it was always a little bit different. It was always there was 404 00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:11,519 always something. It wasn't just focused on card counting, it wasn't just focused 405 00:30:11,559 --> 00:30:15,960 on you know, video poker. It was everything was covered. And it 406 00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:21,000 really opened my eyes to all the different things that were out there as an 407 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,920 advantage player. Look, I remember you talked about a guy that was getting 408 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,519 an edge at scratch cards with lotteries. You know. When I was a 409 00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:33,279 card counter early on, I would say, you know, if you're playing 410 00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:37,279 scratch cards, man, you gotta you're dreading into a huge disadvantage. Well, 411 00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:41,519 maybe you are. Maybe there's an inefficiency in that market, you know, 412 00:30:41,519 --> 00:30:45,640 And and hearing some of the legends of the industry, of our industry 413 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:51,000 of advantage play. Hearing them talk that was a great education to me. 414 00:30:51,759 --> 00:30:53,519 You know, Anthony Curtis, Like, there's just something about the way that 415 00:30:53,559 --> 00:30:57,960 Anthony Curtis talks about things that I always find appealing, Like I like listening 416 00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:02,559 to the guy. I like even when I see him in person, like 417 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,680 Blackjack ball and things like that, I just like hearing him explain something. 418 00:31:06,759 --> 00:31:08,680 He just has a way of talking that I've tried to adapt and try to 419 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,480 relate to people when you explain things to them. And you know, some 420 00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:18,519 of the things with Gambling with an Edge have been they take me back to 421 00:31:18,599 --> 00:31:22,599 a time when I would store up a lot of episodes because I would have 422 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,559 some travel and I know there's people listening to this that can relate to this. 423 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,359 You have a long flight coming up, you store up three or four 424 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,720 episodes of Gambling with an Edge to listen to on the flight, or you 425 00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:37,559 have a long car ride. And I had this play that I was doing 426 00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:40,759 for a number of years that would often require about a four and a half 427 00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:45,920 hour drive, and me and my partners we would always store up Gambling with 428 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,480 an Edge episode to listen to in the car as we drove between these two 429 00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:56,359 areas that we were making this play at, and we always had like a 430 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,519 running commentary of the episode as we go, and to this today, when 431 00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:04,920 I hear certain words or certain phrases, it takes me back to be driving 432 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,240 those roads and listening to it, and you know, we were laughing or 433 00:32:08,359 --> 00:32:12,359 we were saying like that's a great comment, or that's that's a dumb comment. 434 00:32:12,559 --> 00:32:14,640 You know, it was. It was all over the map. So 435 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,400 I think when it comes to gambling with image, I think one of the 436 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:21,599 things I'll miss was the variety of it, and it had a certain structure 437 00:32:21,599 --> 00:32:23,759 to it that was was very unique. And I think Bob, that's a 438 00:32:23,839 --> 00:32:28,119 credit to you and Richard as well, and even to him, Mike Shackelford 439 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:34,680 before him like it. It was just a unique way of looking at advantage 440 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,839 play. And uh, you know, I still I will still go back 441 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:44,200 to some old episodes and he listened to them. List Bob er session episodes 442 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,599 were always great because there was always something that maybe I didn't understand about the 443 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:54,599 legal intricacies that Bob would would explain well and he'd pound the desk and it 444 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,759 would it would always be a great listening to anytime he had had things to 445 00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:05,319 say about the legal side of things. Always great for recording him pounding on 446 00:33:05,359 --> 00:33:13,039 the desk, right. Yeah, he takes the award for the best pounder 447 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,960 on the Gambling with an Edge guest. Yeah, yeah, he's leading that. 448 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,920 You know. I just want to say, I'm one of the things 449 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,839 I'm proudest of about this show is that we have had people on the show 450 00:33:24,759 --> 00:33:32,519 talking about ways to beat almost every possible game you can imagine, and as 451 00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:39,039 he said, from scratch off lottery tickets to you know, craps roulette, 452 00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:44,559 I mean everything. Um, you know, ten years ago, if you 453 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,200 had said, uh, yeah, there's this podcast where they have guys on 454 00:33:47,359 --> 00:33:52,160 who are beating slot machines, I would have, you know, said that's 455 00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:57,119 ridiculous. But you know, now that's the up and coming thing. I 456 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,000 would have said it's ridiculous, said for years in my classes that you're not 457 00:34:02,039 --> 00:34:06,400 going to be slot misses. Now I spend a lot of time doing it. 458 00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:14,320 And it's as a and it's because, yeah, as a consumer and 459 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,039 Gamily with an Edges. Even though I'm a host, I still get I 460 00:34:17,079 --> 00:34:22,960 get to listen to what these guys say and some of which I've applied personally. 461 00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:30,119 And another advantage I had when I would get the same guy coming back 462 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:36,440 they year and a half later, I would frequently go back and listen to 463 00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:45,000 his earlier episode to refresh what we talked about before and what in mind, 464 00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:50,559 what his individual stick was, and I would hear things that I had missed 465 00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:53,880 the first time around. And so if when I only listened to him once, 466 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:59,400 I don't like watching a movie twice. You see things. If you 467 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,880 watch a movie twice, you see something different in the second time than you 468 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,199 did in the first time. And so I frequently did that, and that 469 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:14,480 helped my personal gambling career absolutely. I'll add to that you always had a 470 00:35:14,599 --> 00:35:20,280 very wide spectrum of guests. It wasn't just Blackjack Hall of famers, it 471 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,559 wasn't just known advantage players. Sometimes it was people that I had never heard 472 00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:30,119 of and I had no idea that they even existed in the world. And 473 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:34,599 I've probably made some contact based on listening to somebody on Gambling with the Edge 474 00:35:34,599 --> 00:35:37,880 and going that's a really smart person. I need to find a way to 475 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,199 get in touch with them and maybe work with them in the future. It 476 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,159 was a great way to kind of get your name out there if you were 477 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,000 an advantage player and you know, there's two sides of that coin. You 478 00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:53,079 sometimes had guests on that's what's the phrase. But I think Mark Twain is 479 00:35:53,159 --> 00:35:59,159 like, better to be a fool and not expose yourself by opening your mouth 480 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,719 or something like that. Um. There we there's many guests that I've gone, 481 00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:07,280 wow, I gotta steer clear of that guy. Like so it goes, 482 00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,239 it goes both ways. Yeah, they're definitely ye guest who will be 483 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:17,239 making our farewell tour appearance. Yeah. Yeah, But and that is one 484 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:22,280 of the criticisms of the show is that, Yeah, sometimes a guest will 485 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,039 get on and you know, I mean, we don't know all these people, 486 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,440 right, and and you think they're going to be a good guest, 487 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,920 and then you get them on and you're like, oh my god, you 488 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:37,719 know, um but you know you still I mean, we have to fill 489 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,800 fifty two weeks a year, so um And and that has been one of 490 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:50,360 the struggles in doing the show is doing that. Um. So yeah, 491 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,079 So we have more questions for Captain Jack, but first we're going to do 492 00:36:53,559 --> 00:37:00,400 have a commercial break. If you're serious about card counting, the blackjack apprenticeshipbership 493 00:37:00,519 --> 00:37:04,079 is a great way to learn, train, network and get the resources you 494 00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:07,519 need to succeed. We've had quite a few guests on gambling with a nants 495 00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:12,559 who exclusively trained and got their start through Blackjack Apprenticeship. Check out the website 496 00:37:12,639 --> 00:37:16,639 at Blackjack Apprenticeship dot com. They have member forums, training software and guides 497 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,800 to help you learn. That's Blacksack Apprenticeship dot com and you will find a 498 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,920 link in the show notes video. Poker dot com is the best place to 499 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,639 play lots of games. Sign up for the Gold membership eight ninety five a 500 00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:32,559 month or seventy nine ninety five a year. It's allows you to get correction 501 00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:37,719 on most of the game. Game of the Week is Max's Action Poker, 502 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:42,800 where you play six to ten coins per line and all the pay schedule categories 503 00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:46,000 from three of a kind and hire get bumped up, get a lot more 504 00:37:46,679 --> 00:37:52,280 valuable games. The more coins you play will also get more variants. It 505 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:59,400 will require learning an entirely new strategy, brushes and straits, pay so much 506 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,760 more to what you're used to. Your intuition will be way off on how 507 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:07,480 to play, and without studying it will not be particularly difficult as existing video 508 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:13,519 poker software is fully capable of creating a new strategude for you. Everyone seems 509 00:38:13,519 --> 00:38:16,239 to me talking about sports betting lately. If you're looking to learn more about 510 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:21,199 how you can profit from the sports betting gold rush, than unabated dot Com 511 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,599 is a great resource for you. Founded by frequent gambling with an edge guest, 512 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:30,199 Captain Jack, who's here with us today at rufus p Buddy, unabated 513 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:35,280 dot Com has free educational articles and odd screens to help you shop launch if 514 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:40,280 you've got props. Their Essentials tier has projections and simulators you won't find anywhere 515 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:46,119 else. Premium Tier membership adds an array of pricing calculators in game tools and 516 00:38:46,199 --> 00:38:52,719 the most advanced real time oddscreen available. Take a trial run with their tools 517 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:57,199 to decide if unabated dot Com is right for you. All right, we're 518 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,400 back talking with Captain Jack. Can I just say what an honor it was 519 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:07,480 to be a commercial as sponsor on on your podcast. Trust me, there's 520 00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:10,840 a lot of advantage players out there that I know try to skip through the 521 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,280 commercials as as efficiently as as possible. So to having been one of the 522 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,559 sponsors that people tried to skip over. Um, it was a little bit 523 00:39:19,559 --> 00:39:22,079 of an honor, but it was good to be associated with such an institution 524 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,920 as your podcast. You know, thanks, I appreciate that, and I 525 00:39:27,519 --> 00:39:31,480 also I just want to add that, um uh, you know, for 526 00:39:31,519 --> 00:39:38,039 people who think that, um, I don't know whatever, there are sponsors 527 00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:43,360 that we turned down, like not everyone who wanted to be a sponsor, 528 00:39:43,679 --> 00:39:47,559 did we just take so uh. One to come that comes to mind is 529 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,840 the ball shaver. Bob refused to shave his balls, um with this thing. 530 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,920 So but anyway, so I just wanted to point that out, that 531 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,719 that we were selective in who we accepted as sponsors. Bob refused to talk 532 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:10,519 about shaving his fault all right now, is anything coming up in the near 533 00:40:10,559 --> 00:40:16,639 future Unabated that our listeners should listen to, should be aware of. So 534 00:40:16,679 --> 00:40:21,400 I like to say, Unabated it's a lot like Disneyland, because you go 535 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,159 to Disneyland and there's always something new. Now, there's all the traditional things 536 00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:28,320 that you always want to see when you go to Disneyland, but there's always 537 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,119 a new ride. And we've Walt Disney said Disneyland will never be finished. 538 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,239 Well, Unabated will never be finished. We're always adding something new. We're 539 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,519 always kind of finding a better way to present something or a more efficient way 540 00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:45,920 of presenting it. So we currently have an array of tools for baseball. 541 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:51,079 We're getting started into the baseball season here we have the main push lately have 542 00:40:51,159 --> 00:40:55,360 been towards prop bets. I think there's more liquidity being offered in prop bets 543 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:00,519 than ever before in sports betting. I think NFL props are a viable play 544 00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:05,000 for a lot of advantage players that may have thought that prop plays are just 545 00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:08,760 too esoteric to be able to last long at a sports book. I think 546 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:14,119 you can last betting NFL props. I think you can last betting some NBA 547 00:41:14,199 --> 00:41:16,599 props, and I'm hoping to see some of the same thing with baseball props 548 00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:22,760 going forward. So we have a tool that allows people to simulate player performance 549 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:30,400 based on the projections they give and convert a mean projection and average projection into 550 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,719 a median projection, because sports books put out a line based on the median 551 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,840 line, not based on the mean. And that's an important part that I 552 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,440 think a lot of people never really realize when it comes to sports betting, 553 00:41:42,559 --> 00:41:45,719 is you're betting against a medium, not against a means, so you reach 554 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:51,920 that medium by running simulations, and so we have stimulation tools that users can 555 00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:57,320 use. We also have some partial game derivative calculators coming out to attack not 556 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,719 only first five inning lines, but first three and first seven inning lines. 557 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:05,679 That's something that some of these bigger, newer sports books are putting out there, 558 00:42:05,679 --> 00:42:09,679 and it kind of lends to Richard's comment earlier about they keep coming out 559 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,840 with new stuff and maybe they're making a mistake. Well, you know, 560 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,159 maybe they're making a mistake in first three inning lines or first seven inning lines. 561 00:42:19,119 --> 00:42:22,159 So we're going to have that in addition to the first five inning lines 562 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,719 that some sports books have out there. Most sports books have first five, 563 00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:29,920 some have first three and first seven. And I'll give a point here to 564 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:35,239 this is how edges show up is member as we're coming out of COVID, 565 00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:39,599 the Major League Baseball started doing seven inning games with their double headers, So 566 00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:43,719 if you had a double header, it was two seven inning games. Well, 567 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,079 there was a sports book I knew that had lines on the first three 568 00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:53,280 innings of a game, and they reached that line by basically dividing the total 569 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:59,199 or the side by three. So if the game total was nine, they'd 570 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,280 make the first three inning line to be three. Well, when you had 571 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:07,800 a seven inning double header, they divided that number that total by three. 572 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,599 So you can see you quickly, like you might have been a normal mine 573 00:43:12,639 --> 00:43:15,119 inning game, you might have like over under three. Well they were making 574 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,159 with a seven inning game and a total being more like six or seven, 575 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,760 they were making like over under one and a half for the first three innings, 576 00:43:22,599 --> 00:43:25,400 and they didn't realize it for the longest time. Like this went on 577 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:30,280 for months and months and months where they just didn't realize that they had that 578 00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:35,239 blind spot in how they were creating their lines, you know, And it 579 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,039 goes back to that, well, what's the art of getting the money down? 580 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,199 Well, sometimes the art of getting money down is giving them the best 581 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,760 in a way that they want to see it. And sports books love to 582 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,519 see parlays. So I was going through and I was parlaying these anytime that 583 00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:52,599 there was multiple double headers to be had, or even parlaying both games with 584 00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:55,800 the double header to have the over one and a half on the first three 585 00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,639 innings of both of the double header games, things like that. So that's 586 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,079 just an example of like there's always going to be blind spots out there, 587 00:44:04,119 --> 00:44:07,199 you just have to keep your eyes open to find them. But usually those 588 00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:13,239 blind spots are not going to be in the total of in you know, 589 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:19,159 NFL or MLB. It's not just going to be betting aside, right, 590 00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:22,239 but it could be in some derivative markets, like alternate lines. And that's 591 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:27,079 one of the first ones we created at Debated was to be able to price 592 00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:30,639 out what an alternate line should be. So if the game line in an 593 00:44:30,679 --> 00:44:36,280 NFL game is six, well, what about if you're able to find minus 594 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:37,960 seven, what should that be priced at? Or what if you find an 595 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,519 alternate line like minus eight and a half or minus ten and a half, 596 00:44:42,599 --> 00:44:45,599 what should be the accurate price of that? Because that's often where you find 597 00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:50,360 inefficiencies in the market. And then that Quinta lends to like, okay, 598 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,480 well, you can use these alternate line calculators to calculate what optimal teaser prices 599 00:44:54,519 --> 00:44:59,480 should be and other kind of promotional things where maybe they're like, you know, 600 00:44:59,559 --> 00:45:04,840 add three points on each team's score this week, and here you make 601 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,599 this parlay out of it, and you can find out how much that should 602 00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:10,000 be priced at. All these tools that allow users to say, Okay, 603 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:15,039 I have a giant sandbox here and they're they're they're offering me this bet. 604 00:45:15,159 --> 00:45:20,559 I can kind of construct in this sandbox how I need to approach this bet, 605 00:45:20,639 --> 00:45:23,199 what the math is behind it, without unabated saying oh, hey, 606 00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:25,960 look right here, this is where you have an edge. By doing this, 607 00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:30,719 you can kind of find your edge yourself. You can teach the person 608 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:35,159 to fish rather than just feed them a fish. Yeah, I was. 609 00:45:36,599 --> 00:45:40,679 I enjoy one of the things I just had figured out so much. What 610 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:47,880 you just said was you found this edge and so you parlayed it two edges 611 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:53,400 together, partly to the sguise that that's where the edge was. Just hit 612 00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:59,119 each of the edges individually, it would be a lot clear to the sports 613 00:45:59,159 --> 00:46:04,440 book exactly where your edge was. But when you're parlaying it for aren't thing 614 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:10,960 you hit less often but a bigger amounts. But if this guy's feature and 615 00:46:13,559 --> 00:46:19,079 video poker players need you to disguise themselves all the time. And that was 616 00:46:19,119 --> 00:46:23,199 an area that I didn't realize that sports betters did. Yeah. Absolutely, 617 00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:28,920 because look, when you are betting an edge and you are kind of identified 618 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,440 as a sharp better, they're gonna say, like Hey, what is this 619 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:37,079 guy doing? You know what if Richard in your book Emily Wizard's still one 620 00:46:37,079 --> 00:46:39,559 of my favorite books. You mentioned you were talking. I was in the 621 00:46:39,679 --> 00:46:43,719 I think the Doyle Brunson part of the book, and I think you asked 622 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:45,440 him, do you ever do anything else like card counting or something like that? 623 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,880 And Doyle's like, well, if the casino where to see me at 624 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,199 a blackjack table, they're gonna say, you know, what's what's Dolly doing 625 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,239 at the blackjack table? He must have an edge at the blackjack table? 626 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,480 What do we got going on there? You know? Similarly, like you 627 00:46:59,519 --> 00:47:04,559 know, if somebody he knew who Richard Munchkin was and saw him doing this 628 00:47:04,639 --> 00:47:06,880 at a casino, they go, well, he clearly has an edge. 629 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,920 He wouldn't play a game that doesn't have an edge. So sometimes you need 630 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,039 to disguise who you are to the casino, even when they don't see you, 631 00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:15,400 even like in a sports book operator online, they just don't they don't 632 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,400 see you. They just they just see the name, and you know, 633 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,400 you kind of throw them off the scent. And maybe maybe that means you're 634 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,440 making a lot of parlays in your first ten twenty bets at a at a 635 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:29,400 sports book. Ela who Foystel mentioned that when he was on your show a 636 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,239 while back. H you know, maybe you're using look parlays increased variants, 637 00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,679 right, But round robins are a very popular way to do parley bets, 638 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:45,039 and they actually reduce variants of parlay bets because they basically take all the permutations 639 00:47:45,119 --> 00:47:49,840 of a parlay between multiple teams. And so sports book see somebody making a 640 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,639 round robin bet and they go, ah, this guy's just he's like an 641 00:47:52,639 --> 00:47:57,239 action junkie. He's just looking for action and all these different parlay options. 642 00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:01,239 And sometimes like that's actually good the advantage player because you're making the parlay bet, 643 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:06,239 but you're also lowering your variant. So sometimes round robins are a good 644 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,159 way to approach it that looks square, but you're actually being sharp. Many 645 00:48:09,159 --> 00:48:14,239 different ways that you can be in a sports book finding your bets and still 646 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,480 come across as somebody who doesn't have an edge. I want to make two 647 00:48:17,519 --> 00:48:27,920 points. One is that variance is really good for the players. And to 648 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,800 give you an example from video poker, there are people who if they hit 649 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:37,440 a twelve hundred and fifty dollars jack Pott. They will hit the double up 650 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:44,760 feature because it means that their expectation is exactly the same. But half the 651 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:50,159 time they're only getting half as many W two gs. So yes, it 652 00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:53,119 means that you may lose that twelve hundred and fifty dollars half the time, 653 00:48:53,599 --> 00:48:58,159 but you know the other half you're going to get twenty five hundreds, but 654 00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,559 you've made you've gotten one less W two G out of it, which eats 655 00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:07,960 up your time sitting there at the machine. Also, it's much more likely 656 00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:12,400 for you too, for you to look like a loser. Right, It's 657 00:49:12,519 --> 00:49:16,880 it's much better to have a player that, um, you know, loses 658 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,719 small, small, small, small, small, and then one day he 659 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:25,159 hits, you know, twenty thousand dollars on some being hit that looks like 660 00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:30,000 a degenerate gambler to the to the casino. Um. The other thing is, 661 00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:35,559 if your edge is big enough, then there are times where you could 662 00:49:35,559 --> 00:49:40,760 make parlays on things that where you have your big edge, but the other 663 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,960 the other legs of the parlay maybe don't even have an edge at all. 664 00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:51,559 But your edge is so big on the one that you're trying to disguise that 665 00:49:51,679 --> 00:49:57,559 it's okay to take that, even if it's small negative on those things to 666 00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,840 hide what it is you're doing up. And I know some people agree. 667 00:50:02,159 --> 00:50:07,800 Some people would just like hate the idea of you know, doing anything negative. 668 00:50:08,599 --> 00:50:14,760 You know, but if you have something that's really really strong, well 669 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,000 it's okay to give away some money in what I would call advertising, like 670 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,559 like for example, you know, you tip a lot when you have a 671 00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:27,159 really good hole card game. You can afford it, and you know it 672 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:35,400 helps. Speaking of tipping the play that Richard mentioned of doubling up, when 673 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:40,360 you get a twelve hundred and fifty dollars, you're only tipping half the time. 674 00:50:42,039 --> 00:50:46,800 So even if it's the same ev on the play tip on every w 675 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:52,920 TG, you're only tipping half the time. And so for most people, 676 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:57,599 a tip on twenty five hundred and a tip on twelve fifty would be their 677 00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:05,679 same minimal amounts for thing at your tipping costs in half, which UM definitely 678 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:12,760 positive. Yeah, So we're getting close to the end of our hour. 679 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:19,840 Any if this is going to be likely your last trip on gambling with an 680 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,719 Edge? Do you have any last words for our listeners? I, you 681 00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:27,039 know, I just I just want to say thank you. Like I mentioned, 682 00:51:27,079 --> 00:51:30,960 you have been very influential in the my journey as an advantage player, 683 00:51:31,199 --> 00:51:36,559 and not just you, Bob, but the show and the topic of the 684 00:51:36,599 --> 00:51:39,079 show, and how the show has kind of been there week after week over 685 00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:46,280 the years. So I think that's I think that's my biggest takeaway is I 686 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:51,719 still remember the first time I was asked to come on, I probably spent 687 00:51:52,519 --> 00:51:57,960 twelve to fifteen hours writing out all of my replies and then memorizing all my 688 00:51:58,039 --> 00:52:01,920 replies so it wouldn't sound like I was reading anything. And you know, 689 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:06,719 I've been on subsequent times since then, and occasionally it'll just be I just 690 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:07,920 kind of send a couple of notes saying, oh, here's a topic that 691 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:12,239 I could talk about, and then we just wing it. So it's it's 692 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,159 come a long way since the early days when I had to memorize was like 693 00:52:15,199 --> 00:52:21,320 six pages of type notes that I wanted to sound authentic without sounding like I 694 00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,719 was reading it. Yeah, well, thank you. You've been a great 695 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:32,599 guest over the years, Yes, and very great guest, and I'm glad 696 00:52:32,639 --> 00:52:37,599 to have become your friend over the last five or six seven years. It 697 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:43,880 was I appreciate that definitely, all right at the end of the show, 698 00:52:44,159 --> 00:52:51,679 we have recommended Richard, you have a recommended for our listeners. Yeah. 699 00:52:51,840 --> 00:53:00,800 My recommended this week is a podcast called People I mostly Admire, and I've 700 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:07,199 recommended this podcast in the past different particular guests. It's an interview podcast with 701 00:53:07,519 --> 00:53:12,519 Steve Levitt, who wrote Free Economics, one of the authors of Free Economics. 702 00:53:12,599 --> 00:53:15,719 And this week the guest, I think it was this week, maybe 703 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:23,079 last week is doctor Peter Atilla, and he has done a deep dive into 704 00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:30,039 the study of longevity, and so the interview is about longevity and the things 705 00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:35,960 you can do to live longer. And he has a new book out called 706 00:53:36,119 --> 00:53:43,320 Outlive, The Science and Art of Longevity, and the interview was fascinating, 707 00:53:44,119 --> 00:53:47,119 you know, because Levitt is an economist, there's a lot of stats in 708 00:53:47,159 --> 00:53:54,639 there as opposed to yeah, I think you should eat more whatever. So 709 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:59,639 anyway, I have ordered the book. I haven't read the book yet, 710 00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:05,320 but the podcast was fascinating and if you're at all interested in health and longevity, 711 00:54:06,119 --> 00:54:08,559 I would recommend you listen to it and then you will know very quickly 712 00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:14,000 whether it's a book you're interested in reading. And it's one I certainly am. 713 00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:21,239 Yeah, and I've spoken about longevity and number of times about my search 714 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:25,000 for that. And I have a new author on the subject. Name is 715 00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:34,760 Dan Buttneruet and here he has two or three books. They all have blue 716 00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:42,199 Zones in the title. And a blue zone is an area where there's a 717 00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:49,480 high proportion of one hundred year old plus people living. And there's some in 718 00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:55,400 the Pacific, there's some in California, and there's some in Central America, 719 00:54:55,519 --> 00:55:02,400 and there's some int training area. And his books discover what they have in 720 00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:10,119 common, how you can apply those lessons to wherever you're living. And so 721 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:15,440 I kind of simultaneously reading two of his books, the Blue Zone Solution and 722 00:55:15,519 --> 00:55:20,880 The Blue Zone r itself, and then he has another one, one Recipe, 723 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,360 and so I'm not finished with him yet, but I'm enjoying what I'm 724 00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:30,840 reading. And so it's the same general subject is what Richard's talking about. 725 00:55:30,639 --> 00:55:34,599 I wasn't going to have it recommended until he said that, and then it's 726 00:55:34,639 --> 00:55:38,360 gone, oh yeah, well I can talk about that. So, Captain 727 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:43,239 Jack, do you have a recommended for our listeners? I do, But 728 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,920 after this this love fest that I've had over the past hour with you guys, 729 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,840 it's gonna sound a little repetitive, but honestly, the archives of Gambling 730 00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:57,599 with an edge like there are some great things to discover. Any Bobner ses 731 00:55:57,679 --> 00:56:04,239 seen episode, any Russell Fox episode, any Anthony Curtis episode, any Frank 732 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,480 b episode like those are some of the tops that you know you're going to 733 00:56:07,559 --> 00:56:12,199 get quality information and it's going to be entertaining. And even in the case 734 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:16,440 of Russell Box with the tax stuff, it's it's still knowledgeable information. And 735 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:20,639 the if you go some of the really the deeper cut that I've found the 736 00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:25,199 most interesting small cap growth when you guys had him on, that's a hilarious 737 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:32,400 episode or two. The episode with Prax and the episodes with Phoenix. Look 738 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:37,960 those up. I'm not saying they're going to be the best thing you ever 739 00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:43,719 heard, but they're entertaining. I'll leave it at that. So I look 740 00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,760 forward to going back in the in the archives from time to time in the 741 00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:51,480 future when I feel like I need a little Bob and Richard fix and listening 742 00:56:51,519 --> 00:56:54,639 to some of those old episodes. Well, thank you, this is a 743 00:56:54,719 --> 00:57:01,880 love fish. We're having a nice little bromance here on our our farewell tour. 744 00:57:02,199 --> 00:57:07,239 Thank you very much. Jack on good luck with future of unabated, 745 00:57:08,199 --> 00:57:13,360 Thank you very much. Richard Well had lots of oil flushes. Everybody, 746 00:57:14,159 --> 00:57:15,239 good day,