WEBVTT

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Oh years show time. People pay
good money to see this movie. When

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they go out to a theater,
they want cold sodas with a hot popcorn

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and no monsters in the projection booth. Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. No,

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no, nosh. A storm is
brewing, my friends, someone has

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to stop. Every Sunday for about
a year now, we've been inviting a

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guest over for dinner and discussion.
But this is morth right. Far zu

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damn liberals? Are you Nazi?
Or I can part of the letter?

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Can't marry have the right idea?
Excuse me that this passed. We can

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go on with the rest of our
lives. What if you kill somebody whose

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death makes the world a better place? Blue bottle is bad, the green

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bottle is good. Everyone. This
is Reverend Gerald Hutchins. Homosexuality is the

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terrible disease, and age is the
queer. When a woman cries, right,

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it's usually because she's already concerned the
sun. Really yeah, really,

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I've never met anyone whose anti earth. We're not even giving people a decent

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meal anymore. The fat basher had
Hinese. Have you seen any of these

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men ready for my life? Whether
have you lost your mind serving me this

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filthy stun. I think we're in
the clear and we just kick off those

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glasses and that homeboy hat. It's
a secret Challas wouldn't know a guy gets

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eason meal around here, which you
yes, file this under amazing story in

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my friends. Welcome to the projection
booth. I'm your host. Mike White

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joined me once again is mister Rob
Saint Mary. You left wingers make me

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want to puke. Also joining us
as mister Martin Kessler. I'm I'm pro

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earthling. We continue talking about comedic
films this month with a look at Stacy

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titles The Last Supper, released in
nineteen ninety five. The film is a

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dark comedy. We're in a handful
of liberals decide to try and make the

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world a better place by poisoning scuzz
ball right wingers and planting them in their

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garden. We will be spoiling this
film as we go along, So if

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you haven't seen The Last Supper before, go ahead and track it down and

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come on back after you have watched
it. We will still be here.

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So, Rob, when was the
first time you saw this film and what

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did you think? Sir? I
know that it didn't play locally. I

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don't believe it played in local theater, and if it did, it came

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and went so fast because it was
a little indie film. Maybe it played

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at the Main or something or the
Maple around us here in Detroit. But

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I think it was my dad who
had rented it on VHS. Must have

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been my senior year of high school
was nineteen ninety six, so maybe I

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saw it around then, and I
don't think I had rewatched it since,

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So for me, it was interesting
to go back and rewatch it. I

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have to say that there's aspects of
it that still hold up in terms of

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I had noted in my notes.
I said, you know, it's amazing

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that the film feels contemporary of political
discourse and division that were so often sold

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in this country. I'm sure we'll
be talking a little bit about politics in

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here, because you know, the
movie has nothing to do with politics.

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Rob. If my reviewers have one
thing to say about that, there's no

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such thing as politics and movies,
you gotta be crazy. What are you

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talking about out? Yeah, I
know, and exactly like the first time

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when I was on this show,
oh twelve years ago, when I talked

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about bloodsucking Freaks, and someone put
a note that they said they didn't want

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to lecture on what is it?
Socialist feminist critique? And I was like,

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okay, whatever, and Martin,
now by yourself. I didn't see

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it right away when it came out
either. I think I saw it for

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the first time on the IFC channel
on television when that was still the thing.

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I found it really captivating, and
it's a film that I haven't watched

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super often in the years since,
but it's one I kept thinking of and

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kept kind of coming back to,
because, like you said, there's definitely

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aspects that are still relevant, and
you know, it's a film that's very

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easy to think of when you're spending
too much time on Twitter. This is

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actually a new one for me.
I stayed away from this film. I

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think I was confusing it with the
title being the Last Supper. I was

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not confusing it with the Da Vinci
Code, but I was confusing it with

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another film. And I don't think
it's Peter's Friends, though it has a

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very similar plot to Peter's Friends.
But basically, there were a couple of

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movies in the nineties where people were
holding dinner parties and they were saying goodbye

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to their friends, usually because they
had aids, and I remember walking out

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of Peter's friends. I just couldn't
stand that movie. So I think I

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was confusing this with something like that
with that title, but I was delighted

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when I finally sat down and watched
this movie. Though there are some interesting

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politics and we'll definitely talk about that
as we go along. And it's so

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funny to think of this being a
little indie film and I'm doing air quotes

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just when you look at the cast
of this and you just like Cameron Diaz,

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Courtney b Vans, Ron Pearlman,
Bill Paxton, Nor Dunne, Charles

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Durning, Mark Herrman, Jason Alexander, It's like Wow. To have this

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level of talent in one film was
really very surprising. I got together over

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the weekend with Paul Zimmerman, who
you've had on the show, and I

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was talking to Paul about that we
were going to do this and he said,

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oh, when he was editing film
Threat, he said, they did

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a big like set visit and they
wrote about it. He goes, yeah,

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he goes, that's the movie that
came out where charmeron Diaz had been

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in the mask, but she hadn't
blown up yet, so it was kind

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of in between. So you look
at it and go, okay, not

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you know something about Mary or whatever. You know that finally launched her huge.

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So but yeah, the cast is
just amazing. You're just like,

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wow, it's a pretty simple plot. I don't think we're going to go

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through this beat by beat because especially
once we get to there's a couple extended

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montage sequences. But really it's basically
a group of friends all getting together having

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dinner and the very first time this
happens, one of the friends, Peter,

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he brings home a guest. Basically
he was having car trouble and this

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guy picks him up. And that
guy is Bill Paxton, who I had

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to laugh out loud when he talked
about being a former Marine because I was

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thinking about him the Space Marines taking
out Aliens. But always great to see

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Bill Paxson show up and anything.
Still sorely missed his presence and stuff,

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and especially him playing trying to remember
what his character's name was in Weird Science.

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But he's really channeling a lot of
that Chet energy. Yeah, big

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Chet energy, big big Chet energy, and especially I mean he still reminds

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me of people that I've known in
real life, where he just starts talking

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about, you know, Hitler really
had some great ideas and you know,

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you're just being very unfair to just
label him as being so anti Semitic,

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and you know, he had some
really good things going on. And he

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eventually shows even more of his true
colors by pulling a knife or is it

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a knife or a gun, It's
a knife that he holds to Peter's throat,

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and eventually Mark, and yes,
there are a lot of biblical names

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in this movie. Mark played by
Jonathan Penner, who we've had on the

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show before, and you'll hear a
little bit later on, ends up stabbing

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him in the back. And that's
really what sets them on their path of

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Hey, we're a whole bunch of
bleeding heart liberals that talk of things to

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death. Maybe it's time we start
doing something about things. We've tried nothing

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and we're all out of ideas.
Well. It's all predicated on this scenario

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that they have of if you found
yourself in nineteen o nine sitting at a

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table from across from Adolf Hitler,
would you kill him? And you know

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their answer is of course, yes
you would. So let's basically kill these

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potential future Adolf Hitler's before they have
a chance to become Hitler. Once the

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Bill Paxton character is stabbed, it's
like, okay, well, what are

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we going to do? I mean, do we go to the cops?

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And what if we go to cops? Then what are they gonna you know,

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you stabbed him, Like you really
want to go to jail for this

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guy? Do you really? Is
there a better target? It's kind of

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like, if you're going to do, if you're going to do a prison

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sentence, you should at least have
a better reason to go to jail.

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I guess it's really the philosophy that
they're thinking through their head, like why

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throw yourself away on this guy?
So at the same time, there's this

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parallel story of the sheriff that's played
by Nora Dunn, who you know,

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she's in what is it The Weed
to Southland Tales and which is the other

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film that I was thinking of that
we did. You haven't done anything else

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with her in it? Because oh
yeah, I am blues. Oh yeah,

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that's right. You know, she's
always great. I always thought she

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was underappreciated, you know, in
terms of the work that she could do.

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So she's the sheriff and she's looking
for this lost girl. So this

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becomes this kind of guess the tension
of being found out aspect for this group

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of people as they continue on their
path of hosting these dinner parties for people

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they don't agree with. Yeah,
I'm very kissed where they fi these people.

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I mean, they do make a
point a few times to say,

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like Charles Journing, like oh I
interviewed him. He was the counterpoint to

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this argument about basically like compassionate care
for AIDS patients, and he is just

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vehemently against gay people and against AIDS
patients, and he's very much this homosexuality

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is the disease and AIDS is the
cure type of person. And again I

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love Charles Journing, and he plays
a son of a bitch like nobody's business,

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especially when he's there with papal collar
on and just being so holier than

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now. So when he bites it, I'm pretty happy about that. But

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yeah, Jenny is the person that
they're looking for, apparently played by Elizabeth

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Moss or that's her in the photos. Do we ever see her in real

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life? Do we ever see Elizabeth
Moss moving around in here, and are

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we supposed to think that Bill Paxon
actually murdered her. That's what we're led

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to believe, is that maybe he
was the killer, and so maybe that's

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supposed to the swash our guilt a
bit as to are people killing off others.

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I think it's interesting that it's this
loose end that's never quite tied up

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either. You sort of get the
sense that maybe this is something that could

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have been resolved, but because of
these characters actions, it's left is this

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loose thread which just kind of hangs
by the end of the film. And

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I don't know Norah Dunn's character,
it reminds me a little bit of Farnsworth

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in Misery, where there's this long
build up of the tension waiting for them

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to stumble onto the crime, stumble
into the main plot, and then it

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subverts that before the end by killing
them off. That kind of comes out

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of nowhere for me when she shows
up and according to the Vans, is

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back in the garden, because like
I said, they do plan all these

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corpses in the garden, and there's
this whole thing where the tomato plants that

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are above the corpses just take off, and I really think we're supposed to

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see all of this tomato sauce is
basically a stand in for blood and all

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this blood that's on their hands.
And after a while we see tomatoes everywhere

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in the house and all these jars
of sauce everywhere in the house. It's

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like the blood is kind of closing
in on them, and if anything,

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it feels like the blood is poisoning
them, because they get more and more

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vicious as this movie goes on and
kind of stray away from their own politics.

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But I'd say of all the people
at stray the most, it's courting

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to be advance as Luke here where
he ends up pretty much just going off

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the deep end, especially when he
takes a shovel to Norah Dunn's face and

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it's like, oh, okay,
so now we've gone from murdering right wing

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nut jobs to just straight up gang
and a police officer. Isn't that where

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the title of the Cohen Brothers movie
Blood Simple comes from that basically, like

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you've gone kind of blood mad,
like you've killed enough that it's like you've

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lost your sanity kind of, And
I think that's kind of what happens with

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these characters. And they do have
that conversation early on about sort of the

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moral culpability. It's like, well, we're not, you know, if

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you kill one person, it's like, kind of where does it end?

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So it becomes this question of the
sanctity of life, which, of course

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is always the right to life crusaders
always used. And that also reminded me

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of George Carlin's whole thing about the
sanctity of life in his stand up bit

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from nineteen ninety two, a few
years before this movie, Sanctity of Life?

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You believe in it? Personally,
I think it's a bunch of shit.

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Well, I mean life is sacred. Who said so? God?

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Hey, if you read history,
you realize that God is one of the

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leading causes of death, has been
for thousands of years. Even if there

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worth such a thing, I don't
think it's something you can blame on God.

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Now you know where the sanctity of
life came from. We made it

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up. You know why, because
you're alive. It's pretty funny how it

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progresses, and it feels like at
a certain point they're going after smaller and

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smaller fish instead of bigger and bigger
fish. It does get into this question

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of ad like, is this person
really evil or are they just stupid?

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Are they just a illiterate? Are
they just a stupid teenager? You know,

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it gets into that gray area of
you know, are we really killing

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somebody who's evil or are we just
trying to satisfy our own stance. They

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have this montage, so Mark Harman
basically is very much male chauvinist, peg

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very not necessarily women should only be
in the kitchen type of thing, but

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pretty darn close to it. You
get the right to life crusader, so

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that is that whole thing of you
know, I will murder to protect the

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sanctity of life. As you're talking
about, You've got Jason Alexander coming in

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as this anti environmentalists, eating cheeseburger
and sa poking and drinking, I think,

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all at the same time, kind
of a George Costanza thing. It

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reminded me of him when he's having
sex with Susan and eating the Astramian stuff.

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You've got all of these folks and
then you show up with like the

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back black Muslim guy and I'm just
like, Okay, I'm really sure what

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the problem is with this black nationalist
guy, and he's not even a black

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nationalist who's not like, he doesn't
express his politics at all for me,

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and he's just coded as this kind
of ferracon guy and like Farra Coon was

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a piece of shit, But I'm
not seeing the piece of shit in this

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black Muslim. I'm just like,
okay, yeah, he's got the boat

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tie, all right, what you're
trying to go for, but I'm not

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seeing it. And then you get
the one guy who apparently likes to go

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out and beat homeless people, and
he actually starts to have second thoughts and

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he's just like, oh, like
the light bulb goes off over his head

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and they ended up murdering him anyway. And I'm like, oh, okay,

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so yeah, like you said,
they're going after petty crimes or petty

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things. And then when they actually
talk to one of these people and they

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start to have second thoughts, they
don't care. They're just going to murder

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that person anyway. I mean,
it's definitely understandable how somebody might find it

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more satisfying to obliterate somebody then to
change their mind. It's funny also to

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me to how it's reflected in the
quality of the meals that they're serving up

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as the last sepparate to these people. It starts off as, Oh,

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we're going to give them a nice
last meal. We're going to be very

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civil about this, and then gradually
as it goes on, like you said,

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you know, if there's the hamburger
at a certain point, it's just

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like white bread and macaroni and cheese, like they're not putting any effort to

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these meals anymore. I almost wish
there wasn't a line to draw attention to

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it, because it just plays very
funny, as like a small background detail

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if you if you notice these meals
getting worse and worse. Another thing that

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I liked, and I know this
is just by virtue of you have enough

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people in the way the table is
set. But there's at least one shot,

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especially later into the montage that reminds
me of the exact same set up

228
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as in Texas Chainsaw Masaker, where
the families like looking down the barrel of

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the camera at you know, their
dinner guest, and it looks exactly the

230
00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:15.480
same staging in here as in Texas
Chainsaw, and probably just as menacing because

231
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they're all kind of like laughing and
sneering and all of this. This is

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great. It's almost the exact same
visual nod. I was getting a lot

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of Shallow Grave while I was watching
at this time, and just that montage

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of the three kind of pieces of
shit main characters. Shellow Grave is a

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great movie, and that I really
care about these people who are just absolute

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whankers. These folks, I don't
know if I necessarily care about them as

237
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much, but to see that same
shot where they're interviewing all the potential housemates

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and felt very much like when they're
on that other side at the table looking

239
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at their victim. But yeah,
I can totally see that Texas chainsaw massacre

240
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thing. I love shell Grave as
well. I'm glad we got to do

241
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that on the show because it's,
you know, one of the underappreciated of

242
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the Danny Boyle films early one.
It also ruins me a little bit of

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these Frederick Knought type one location murder
plays like Dialing for Murder or Wipe until

244
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Dark. It has a little bit
of fat fuel to it, which I

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like a lot. There's like a
little bit of Hitchcock in this, I

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00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.799
think, but playfulness and a dark
humor, a little bit of that.

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I was seeing a lot of arsenic
and old lace as well, especially the

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choice of poisoning as their way to
dispatch people. And I do have to

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say, when things really come to
ahead, it's really their own fault because

250
00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:45.680
they invite this underage girl to come
over, who's one of these like promise

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rang no sex before marriage type girls, And I'm just like, she's not

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good to drink poison wine. You
guys really need to come up with an

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alternative. Now there's there's your milk, your tea, you know, something

254
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else, because this girl is definitely
not going to have any wine at dinner.

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Try the why aren't you drinking?
I never drink? Why remember joking

256
00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:14.519
many years ago because this takes place, I mean, we're led to believe

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that it takes place, I guess
in Iowa based on the license plates,

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and they're checking the newspaper to see, oh is anyone missing in the newspapers

259
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and things like that. And I
remember joking many years ago about the show

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Murder she wrote right, which takes
place in a small town. I'm like,

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that place has the highest murder rate
per capita of any place in the

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world. I'm like, that makes
see you dad Warez, look like mister

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Rogers neighborhood. You know, it's
just like, what the hell's going on?

264
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Look, at some point, all
of these people that are disappearing,

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you think that there would be a
bigger outcry. You think that there would

266
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be like a bunch of these flyers
all over the place, like where's the

267
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priest and where's this person? Where's
that? You know, which would have

268
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:56.920
added I think a little bit more
tension. But obviously, you know,

269
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we're playing in a heightened reality in
which these you know, it's not supposed

270
00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.799
to be real, but there is
just part of you just had to laugh.

271
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Like if you look at it from
a rational standpoint, it's like,

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there's really no way you could get
away with killing I think at least seven

273
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to eight people, maybe eight within
a summer and in a small town in

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Iowa and people not know what you
know, notice something funny? Well,

275
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according to the one guy's cast,
that's ten people. Though they argue about

276
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that. Like you said, there's
a lot of things that if you look

277
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at this film as if it takes
place in the rational world, it wouldn't

278
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.519
really hold up or makes sense.
But like he said, as that heightened

279
00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:37.559
reality. I always think of this
movie is a little bit like a parable,

280
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you know, with the paintings and
something about all the fruit imagery and

281
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the way the story unfolds. By
the time you get to the end,

282
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it feels like the punchline to this
sort of dark political parable. Maybe.

283
00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.519
Yeah, let's talk about the painting. So, the Jonathan Penner character Mark

284
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.559
is a painter. The whole movie
starts off with a series of paintings and

285
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it ends with the painting, and
we get to see him paint through this

286
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.799
and it's kind of a trying to
remember what the name of the actual painting

287
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.920
is, but it's basically where God
is reaching out to Adam and giving them

288
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:14.359
the spark of life that's on the
origin of Man. Yeah, thank you,

289
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.759
Right, he can't sleep, he's
kind of possessed. He ends up

290
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:22.599
painting mess and we saw his paintings
earlier in the movie. They're interesting paintings.

291
00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:27.839
They're they're kind of outsider artish type
of stuff. But yeah, I

292
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.279
like them, and I like that
he's this painter. It's the only he's

293
00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:37.119
the only character who really stands out
for me as far as just being a

294
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little bit different from the rest of
them, because everybody else other than perhaps

295
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.359
Courtney b Vans, they'll feel like
they're very much cut from the same cloth.

296
00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:49.799
I wouldn't be able to tell you
the difference between Cameron Diaz as Jude

297
00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:56.319
versus Adambeth Gish as Pauli. They're
the women characters, you know, there's

298
00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.880
not a whole lot unique about them. But then you get Mark and he

299
00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.640
and Lease got the paintings. You
know, even when it comes to Pete,

300
00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:06.680
it's like, Okay, he's got
a cast on his arm. He

301
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:08.920
doesn't really have a lot of personality. I mean, this is very much

302
00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:11.559
like you said, Martin, this
is very much a parable. It's basically,

303
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.720
are these people get together and they
murder these people? And are they

304
00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:18.920
in the right? Are they in
the wrong? And it's interesting because this

305
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.279
whole movie, you know, it
begs the question are they right? Are

306
00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:26.799
they wrong? And I would like
to think, and this is going to

307
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.440
sound very sick and twisted, oruld
like to think they're in the right,

308
00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:36.519
but they're definitely painted as being in
the wrong. And it's like, okay,

309
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:38.960
well do you feel for these characters
or do you not feel for these

310
00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:41.599
characters? And at the end of
the movie. I mean, they are

311
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:48.440
not victorious. It's the biggest of
all of the pieces of shit. Ron

312
00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:53.839
Perlman as Norman Abernoff, he is
basically a stand in for at the time,

313
00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:57.559
Rush Limbaugh. I could see him
being more of a Tucker Carlson these

314
00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:03.079
days, where he sells his whole
line of shit to his audiences but really

315
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:07.960
doesn't believe it himself and just is
doing it for the ratings. And he's

316
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:11.960
the one who figures out everything and
ends up poisoning all of them. So

317
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:17.279
it's like, okay, well they
haven't vanquished evil. If anything, evil

318
00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:22.279
just vanquished them. I think the
irony is that after this debate about,

319
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:23.920
you know, is it right or
wrong what they're doing, when they are

320
00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:29.079
in fact sitting across the table from
the next Edelf Hitler, that's when they

321
00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:34.200
fail. Cortney Bevans is the only
one who is maybe correct in that situation,

322
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.799
and he's outvoted because, like you
said, he's the one who's most

323
00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:44.039
over the edge and is perhaps killing
for not the reasons that he supposes he

324
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:48.160
is. But I think, like
it's interesting that they've been picking on these

325
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:52.799
or killing these people who are easy
to argue against you know, their opinions

326
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:57.279
are a stupid and by the end
when they run into Ron Roman's character,

327
00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:03.039
he's smarter than they are. He's
persuasive, he knows exactly how to drive

328
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:07.839
a wedge in between the lines of
division in them, and you know,

329
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:11.279
he's completely capable of destroying them.
You know, it's it's like, oh

330
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:14.440
no, never mind killing Hitler from
the other end of the dinner table.

331
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:19.400
Hitler's going to kill me. But
you know, he's so expert at talking

332
00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:25.920
in circles around them and sowing doubt
within them. I think Rob Prohn's really

333
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:30.960
fantastic in this also one of my
favorite performances of his. And you know,

334
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.960
I like his work in Je Jocket
though films and Shell Pierholt in his

335
00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:37.319
movies. But I mean, he
said rush Limba and I've heard like Pat

336
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:41.039
Bichannon kind of compared to this character. But he does something a little bit

337
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:42.880
different than them. His voice.
He's got like, you know, a

338
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:47.319
little bit of a silky voice thing
that I don't really associate with either of

339
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:51.880
those guys. How does he say
it like I would reason with him?

340
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.559
You know, the way he says
it, it's so devilish and when he

341
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:59.799
grins, it's that mouthful atif.
That's wonderful. I really like his performance

342
00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:03.640
here where you feel like he is
the big dog in this film. In

343
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.200
a way, he's the one who
can really flip the script and obliterate these

344
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.920
characters who've been killing all these speciople. You know, at the very beginning,

345
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:14.759
they set up this character where you
know they're watching him on television and

346
00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:18.960
saying, oh, he's he's so
stupid, he's an idiot. And I

347
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:22.160
think a character, maybe it's Mark, says like, oh no, he's

348
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.759
a genius. I think Courtney Bevans's
character says he's the devil, and I

349
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:29.880
think both of those things turn out
to be true in the end. He

350
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.599
is the devil. He is the
next Adolf Hitler. I think as that

351
00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:40.119
final painting and the political speech that
overlays it suggests. I've heard some people

352
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:44.039
kind of argue different interpretations at the
ending. I know it's it's a little

353
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:47.519
ambiguous, and I've heard some people
say, well, how can the painting

354
00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:51.640
exist if Mark died so he couldn't
paint it, But again, it's a

355
00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:53.680
parable. I think the paintings are
telling the story in a way. I

356
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:59.400
think one of the lessons is it's
not really the believers that are the issue.

357
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:03.480
It's the those who understand how to
manipulate the believers. It's those who

358
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:07.640
they're the real problem. But the
thing is is that when you're so in

359
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:12.559
the ideology, you don't see that
you focus more on the people who are

360
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:18.559
the believers as opposed to the people
who are able to manipulate to get the

361
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:23.000
people to believe. And this is
where I saw kind of talking about contemporary

362
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:29.200
for twenty twenty three to the connection
to as Mike said, oh, maybe

363
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:33.359
he's a Tucker Carlson with the whole
Fox News dominion lawsuit thing, which is

364
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.359
to me a perfect illustration where all
the texts and emails come out and they're

365
00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:40.799
like, oh, God Trump,
and I can't stand him. I hate

366
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.160
this guy so fucking terrible, Like
I can't wait for him to go away,

367
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.559
And they're saying that behind the scenes, but on camera they're constantly like,

368
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.720
Oh, he's our guy, and
all of this so feeding the audience

369
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:57.759
what they want or what that person
feels they need in order to raise their

370
00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:02.880
own stature to make the money,
but at the same time they really don't

371
00:27:02.920 --> 00:27:07.559
believe in anything. So it becomes
a question of how do you battle in

372
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:11.680
a moral figure really, because really
that's what Ron Perlman's character is. I

373
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:15.880
mean, I think if he could
see the value of control within being a

374
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.440
liberal, I think he would have
been a liberal, or he would have

375
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:22.559
been a conservative. It just depends
on where he could have seen the ability

376
00:27:22.599 --> 00:27:26.759
to manipulate and control and to build
his power base and the money and the

377
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:30.359
stature and all the other things he
wants. So the point that they're trying

378
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:36.880
to make thematically is that you can't
you can't battle someone who's immoral in that

379
00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:41.680
way because there's really no way to
kind of defend against them in this kind

380
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:45.839
of I guess you would say,
this hardcore way of just you know,

381
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:49.400
we'll just kill him. I remember
I saw they're warning me about white supremacists

382
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.799
and these types of people, and
his advice to me was that, like,

383
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:59.160
most of these people are just stupid
playing dress up, wearing jack boots

384
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:03.839
and getting sust cut tattoos. But
if you run into somebody who's who knows

385
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:07.640
better and still embraces this idea legally
anyway, somebody who's who's too smart for

386
00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:12.079
he said that those are really dangerous
people to stay away from them. I

387
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:17.519
don't know if you've seen the Daniel
Redcliffe movie Imperium, whereas the FBI agent

388
00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:22.839
going undercover, there's like the one
character and Edge who's he's a white supremacist

389
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:26.119
who still listens to Leonard Bernstein,
and I'm like, that's the guy.

390
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:27.839
That's the guy who's going to do
the ball. Maybe it's like in the

391
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:32.200
back of my head. So I
think a little bit of that. Also,

392
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:37.480
these people who are who are smarter
than their own politics and who use

393
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:42.359
it to their advantage to gain power
to destroy opposition, you know, I

394
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:45.839
think it's It's something I definitely try
to be aware of. A good friend

395
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:51.079
of mine actually was a drummer in
the band I was in in high school

396
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:53.960
and we're still friends now, but
there was a period in our early twenties

397
00:28:53.960 --> 00:29:00.240
where he showed up at my house
with a skinhead jacket and tattoos and all

398
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:04.079
of this, and I was like, what the fuck, dude, And

399
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:07.200
I'm like, I go, you're
Polish man. I'm like, do you

400
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:11.200
have any idea what the fucking Nazis
did to the Polish people? I mean,

401
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:15.240
come on, you know, and
I kind of pushed his ass out

402
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:18.079
the door, and a few years
later he came back to me and we

403
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:21.440
met up for dinner recently and he
goes, you know what, I want

404
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:23.640
to thank you for doing that.
I met these people at a time in

405
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:26.440
my life when I was very isolated, I was very lone. I was

406
00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.839
very upset with the world. I
didn't I was looking for answers. I

407
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.160
wasn't finding the answers that I wanted. And it was just comfort. It

408
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:38.119
was. It was friendship is what
I found, really, And eventually what

409
00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:42.960
happened was they kind of turned on
me too. Like I thought it was

410
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:47.880
one thing, and it became something
else, and I had to take a

411
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:52.039
hard look at myself and go,
no, this is yeah, this is

412
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:53.279
wrong. You know. It took
him a couple of years to kind of

413
00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:56.839
snap out of it, but when
he kind of came back to reality,

414
00:29:57.319 --> 00:30:00.000
he was like, you know,
it just didn't just didn't make any sense

415
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:03.039
because they were telling me that.
You know, He goes, part of

416
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:06.400
it was he was a musician,
and he was just like, you know,

417
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:10.400
all the music I love was created
by black people. So he's like,

418
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:12.160
how am I supposed to hate black
people? He goes, I love

419
00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:15.799
jazz and I love blues. That
you know, it's like, what the

420
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:18.799
fuck? But really, like I
said, for him, it was that

421
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:23.920
it was finding community. And I
think to this film some of these sort

422
00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:27.920
of lesser people as we're talking about, not the Ron Perlman character, that

423
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.440
maybe it's much the same for them, Like obviously we don't get into their

424
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:34.720
backstories and things like that, but
it could be you know, I found

425
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:37.440
community. I found community in a
church, I found community in this I

426
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.319
found community, and that this just
happens to be what I've been told and

427
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:47.039
I've come to believe as what I
should be following. But it's really more

428
00:30:47.079 --> 00:30:51.519
about about that kind of thing.
So when you see people who you're just

429
00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:55.680
like, no, this guy's Harvard
educated. This guy wanted to Yale,

430
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:59.559
that is you know, like like
you look at people in the GOP and

431
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:02.599
you're like, round to Santis went
to Harvard and Yale. You know,

432
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:07.799
Ted Cruz went to Harvard and Yale. I'm like, these guys are educated

433
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:11.160
people, and so there's part of
me that goes, they know what they're

434
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:17.160
doing, they know that they don't
really believe this stuff. They've just found

435
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:21.559
a way to get people to back
them and give them money and positions of

436
00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:25.160
authority, and that's really what it's
about, more than anything that's disturbing.

437
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:30.799
That's very disturbing. I think about
a movie like Black Clansmen, where I

438
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:34.160
mean, yes, the White supremacists
are very dangerous, there's the bomb that's

439
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:38.640
being set off, but they're portrayed
as being just buffoonish, even all the

440
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:41.880
way up to David Duke, and
I'm just like, I don't think that

441
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:48.400
these people are as stupid as you're
portraying them. They're all comic relief and

442
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:52.640
Spike Lee he wants this cake and
to eat it too. He wants to

443
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:57.000
make fun of the white supremacists and
also show that they're evil but stupid at

444
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:01.559
the same time. And it's just
like they're not always mutually exclusive in Illinois

445
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:07.640
Nazis. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking
of skinheads, though there's a skinhead that's

446
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:13.119
credited in the credits Patrick Lawrence,
I don't remember a scene with a skinhead

447
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.920
in this movie. There was another
character I noticed when I was going through

448
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:21.720
the im tob like illegal alien haters
something like that. That notice in the

449
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.000
film, so I assume maybe there
were more vignettes that just didn't make it

450
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:28.039
into the final cut at a certain
point of place, a little bit like

451
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:32.279
a montage, or it's going through
these different characters who get killed quite quickly.

452
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:37.839
I don't think you see all ten
or eleven, so presumably there's some

453
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:40.559
other cutting room floor. I guess
it would make sense. Especially it would

454
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:45.200
be kind of more biblical too,
if they had twelve people that they ended

455
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:49.359
up killing and then the thirteenth is
the one that they can't kill. I

456
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:53.640
didn't really think about the whole painting
can't be done if Mark is dead.

457
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:58.160
That's a really good point, Martin. I think I read this on an

458
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:00.599
im D message board like fifteen years
ago. It's not my point, but

459
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:05.799
I've seen that some people have that. I actually wrote it down in my

460
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:08.799
notes why I rewatched it. So
it's funny. Yeah. And the other

461
00:33:08.839 --> 00:33:13.839
thing that I wanted to say real
quick was that having Courtney b Vance be

462
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:17.559
the guy who starts to kill a
little bit more for fun and as the

463
00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:22.000
one that kills the sheriff and is
just really adamant about killing people, it's

464
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:27.599
kind of a bad look. Since
he's one of only two black characters in

465
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:30.200
this entire movie, and it's like, maybe you could make one of the

466
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:37.000
milktoast white guys be a little bit
more murderous. I mean, give for

467
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:40.480
Ron Elder and something to do.
You know, that might be the answer

468
00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:45.599
to your question about the black Muslim
that the idea was they had to bounce

469
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:47.559
that off a little bit. Oh, you know, he's not the only

470
00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:52.440
black character. Ron Elder is an
interesting guy because I've seen him in so

471
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:57.200
many movies, but I didn't realize
that I was looking at him in so

472
00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:00.920
many movies. When he showed up, I was just like, I know

473
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.079
this guy. I don't know where
I know him from. And then I

474
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:08.599
realized that I watched every single episode
of Blind Justice back in two thousand and

475
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:15.840
five, one of many blind detective
shows. Actually, there's also a deft

476
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:21.119
detective from Canada, a woman,
and I've watched all of her shows too,

477
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:25.440
So I don't know pa for the
differently abled I suppose, but apparently

478
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:30.559
like differently abled detectives to me.
There is several different readings that you can

479
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:34.880
have on this ending. One is
is that they're all dead, and that

480
00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:40.360
basically the idea that Martin said is
that we'll just kind of divide and conquer.

481
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:44.400
You know that you can't all come
together to figure out what it is

482
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:49.199
that you want, and that's why
the left will always be as Bill Paxton

483
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:51.559
says, up the front, it's
like, oh, you liberals, all

484
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.320
you do is talking, don't do
anything, which also reminds me of the

485
00:34:54.400 --> 00:35:00.239
line of Dark Helmet and spaceballs.
Now you see that evil will all he's

486
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:06.599
triumph because good is dumb. I
also saw it as the idea of,

487
00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:08.599
well, why the tomatoes, Like
you were saying, there's this great visual

488
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:12.199
with the idea of okay, it's
a stand in for blood, but the

489
00:35:12.280 --> 00:35:15.239
idea also of reaping what you sew, right, So if they're sowing this

490
00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:19.559
death and they're sewing all this,
then of course it's going to eventually come

491
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:22.719
back onto them. Those are the
big ones that I kind of took away,

492
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:27.400
and then sort of the third was
that maybe Norman let them live.

493
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:30.519
Maybe he didn't figure it out like
we're led to believe that he figured it

494
00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:32.519
out based on the editing and the
way things are put together. But at

495
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:36.119
the same time, in order for
someone like him to be a demagogue,

496
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:40.400
he needs someone to fight against.
He needs people who have who hate his

497
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:46.000
guts, he needs people who who
hold differing opinions. So therefore, yeah,

498
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:49.760
well, of course, you know
if if there was a group of

499
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.679
liberals that got together and killed a
bunch of right wingers, wouldn't that be

500
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:55.679
great fodder for your campaign. See, we can't trust these liberals. They're

501
00:35:55.719 --> 00:36:00.119
all trying to kill us capitalists.
If you think that you can play foot

502
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:05.480
seas with these people, you're wrong. They will come for you and drag

503
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:07.920
you into the streets and kill you. I always imagine, even though it's

504
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:15.119
not explicitly stated, that surviving his
encounter with them is what propels his political

505
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.719
career at the very end that you
know, the fame of that is what

506
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:22.079
would lead him to become president of
the United States. And well, it

507
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:24.239
is nice that they've got that has
shown a knife cover of Top of the

508
00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:29.400
World, playing basically like, yeah, he is going to be at the

509
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:31.719
top of the world. He is
that new Hitler as you're talking about.

510
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.639
So yeah, I think that's a
really good reading of it, is that

511
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.800
this is what helps him out in
his career. No matter what, he's

512
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:43.519
going to be able to spin it, whether all five of them die or

513
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:47.880
whether they don't. And he just
continues on regardless, he always seems to

514
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:51.559
have the upper hand. All right, we're going to take a break and

515
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:54.480
play a pair of interviews for stuff. We'll hear from Mark himself Jonathan Penner,

516
00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:59.559
and after that you'll hear from screenwriter
Dan Rosen, and we'll be back

517
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:10.519
with both of those right after these
brief messages. Hello everyone, this is

518
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:16.880
Malcolm McDowell. I just want to
say that this is a request to listeners

519
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:25.079
of the Projection Booth podcast to become
patrons of the show via patrion dot com

520
00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:34.400
PA t r e o n dot
com slash Projection Booth. That's pretty simple.

521
00:37:34.519 --> 00:37:37.280
I think you can do that.
It's a great show and Mike he

522
00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:44.079
provides hours of great entertainment. So
now it's time to give back my little

523
00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:47.920
drugs. Settle down and take a
listen and have a sip of the old

524
00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:52.239
molocco and then you'll be ready for
a little of the old in Out,

525
00:37:52.400 --> 00:38:00.880
in out, real horror show.
Bye bye, John Papenner's great having you

526
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:05.440
back on the show. We were
talking about the Last Supper. Can you

527
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:08.360
tell me where were you at in
your career around this time? My wife

528
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:15.199
Stacy title and I were just kind
of getting started. I had done my

529
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:20.840
first TV series as an actor,
the show called Grapevine, which was created

530
00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:23.559
by David Frankl, who went on
to win his own Oscar and have a

531
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:28.400
big career in the movies and on
TV. We were so poor, How

532
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:32.360
poor were you? We were so
poor that the tax refund that I got

533
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:37.079
from Dowey Grapevine was enough to pay
for a short film that we made.

534
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:43.760
Made a short film called Down on
the Waterfront that was nominated for an Academy

535
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:47.119
Award. And that's a whole other
story. Because we'd been nominated and we're

536
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:52.480
feeling pretty great. We were at
a backyard barbecue honestly and just talking,

537
00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:55.599
you know, like what's going on, and somebody introduced like Lee just got

538
00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:59.280
nominated for an Oscar and I'm like, yeah, it's incredible, you know,

539
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:02.159
And he said, really, we're
looking for filmmakers to make this new

540
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:06.360
movie that we have a script,
and we're not sure who's going to direct

541
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:09.480
it. They sent it over to
Stacy and to me because I was producing.

542
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:13.679
They had seen the short at that
point. They got to see the

543
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:15.639
short and they were like, you
know, would you guys like to do

544
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:20.000
this Jonathan you should be in the
movie, and Stacy, you should direct

545
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:23.639
the movie. And because we had
written the short they wanted they asked us

546
00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:28.119
to sit down and work with Dan
Rosen, who had written the script,

547
00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:31.199
to just tweak it a little bit
and turn it into you know, the

548
00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:36.679
movie that you see today. So
we worked with him and got hired.

549
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:38.840
I don't know how many other people
they met. I'm sure they met more

550
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:43.400
than just us, but that's where
we were in our career. Was that

551
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:47.079
launched our feature career. So that
was in the early nineties. What was

552
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:50.880
the state of the script when you
guys started working with Dan, Well,

553
00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:54.079
it was great. You know,
there was there was an extra housemate.

554
00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:58.440
If you've seen the film, there
five of us living in the house,

555
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:02.239
and at that point were six,
and it just sort of felt like there

556
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:08.880
was one character too many. We
just wanted to strengthen all five characters by

557
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:14.440
taking the best lines of this sixth
character and saying like, this is the

558
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:16.360
aggressive one, and this is the
nerdy one, and this is the sexy

559
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:21.960
one, and this is the whatever, and just made five great characters instead

560
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:25.800
of six good characters, and just
kind of punched everything up a little bit.

561
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:29.719
You know, but honestly, the
script, you know, that's why

562
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.760
he gets soul screen credit was because
it really is his script that we just

563
00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:37.760
helped as a good set of producers
and a director would do anyway, I

564
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.639
think, you know. So then
we started to have to cast it,

565
00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:45.880
and this is a real, you
know, Hollywood story. Stacy and I

566
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:51.079
had a manager who's now a big
agent, guy named Brian Schwartztrong was our

567
00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:53.719
manager at the time, and he's
like, well, I've got Annabeth Gish

568
00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:58.599
and I've got Ron Eldard and we're
like, very incredible. That's two of

569
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.119
them, you know, two of
them. And he had Bill Paxton and

570
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:05.559
we worked with Bill. That was
a whole Bill was really on the rise

571
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:10.679
at that point. He was shooting
of Apollo thirteen and he really tested Stacy

572
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:15.480
to see if she was up for
the task, and she of course passed

573
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:19.400
with flying color. So he signed
on and that really helped, you know,

574
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.840
I mean, suddenly he got a
really pretty serious cast. The last

575
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:27.440
one was a Cameron Diazt And so, you know, we had a manager

576
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:30.800
and we also had an attorney,
and our attorney said, you know,

577
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:38.800
I've got this foot pull super talented
young client who just dropped out of a

578
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:45.239
movie called The Phantom, a movie
that was that got made with Billy Zane.

579
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:49.320
Aburn was going to be the female
lead, or one of the female

580
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:52.639
leads, and she dropped out of
it for whatever reason. She was looking

581
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:57.039
for a job, you know,
and would we go and see her in

582
00:41:57.079 --> 00:42:00.360
the Mask, which was the only
job that she'd had, And we were

583
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:00.960
like, well, who is she? You know, we never heard of

584
00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:05.199
her, not that we were any
you know, you know, like louis

585
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:08.440
this person. And she had been
like a copper tone model, and she

586
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:13.039
was quite a bit younger. I
mean, she was younger at that point.

587
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:15.159
It seemed like a big age difference. You know. She was twenty

588
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:21.000
three and I was thirty or something
or twenty nine with Stacey and I went

589
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:23.840
out that day and saw The Mask
in the movies and of course what she

590
00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:29.519
was asked to do in the Mask
was look gorgeous and be vivacious, and

591
00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:30.960
you know, but she's like a
star, I mean, she's wonderful in

592
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:34.519
the movie. And we said,
I don't know, we'll take a shot.

593
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:39.159
So we thought that she would play
the kind of the sexier character and

594
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:43.719
she said, no, I want
to play the more serious character, and

595
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:46.760
so they she had had Abeth Gish
kind of flipped the characters that we would

596
00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:51.960
have expected them to play, and
she was fantastic. You know, we

597
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:53.880
had a ball working with her at
that time. She was like, yeah,

598
00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:57.079
I'm going to do this. For
a couple of years. She was

599
00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:00.639
engaged, I think, to be
married or she was very arius lean ball

600
00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:02.079
with somebody. You know, I'm
gonna get married, I want to have

601
00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:07.480
kids, and we're like, really, you should ride this thing because you're

602
00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:09.639
going to be you know, you're
great. And of course now she has

603
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:13.480
kids and she's married. But it
took a long time. She had an

604
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:17.119
extraordinary as an extraordinary career. The
other piece of the puzzle Courtney b Vans.

605
00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:22.280
He is just amazing in this role. We did not audition him.

606
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:27.239
Well, you know, we had
David Bonnie Zane again. You know,

607
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:30.039
I went to college with Deb Zane, so you know, and this is

608
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:36.920
certainly how every kind of creative project
comes together. It's like who do you

609
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:37.719
know? Who do you want to
work with? Who do you love?

610
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:42.840
It makes it much easier to work
with folks that you that you know and

611
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.800
love. I certainly knew of Courtney. I didn't, you know, I'd

612
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:50.519
never worked with him, none of
us had. But deb was like Courtney

613
00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:52.480
Vans and we're like, yeah,
can you get him, that'd be amazing.

614
00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:55.440
And it was like that, you
know, he read the script,

615
00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:59.880
loved it, and so it was
it was really pretty easy, you know,

616
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:02.039
once a train and this is something
that you know, we were spoiled

617
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:06.119
on our We were spoiled on our
first short. You know, went to

618
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:07.159
the Oscars. Oh yeah, well
that's how it goes, you know,

619
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:10.840
go to a dinner party and wind
up with a with a movie, you

620
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:15.440
know, and with financing. It
was financed by the brother of one of

621
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:20.119
the producers, who was like a
dentist, you know, and he said,

622
00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:23.320
yeah, you know, this was
this was when video stores really were

623
00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:30.280
and HBO would showtime and things like
that. Were desperate for material, you

624
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:35.320
know, if you could make a
viable independent movie. And this was in

625
00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:38.320
the days of I guess we were
at Sundance, like the year of Spank

626
00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:42.840
the Monkey and a couple of other
pictures like that. You know, this

627
00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:45.960
was like the heyday of independent cinema
in America. Quarter of a million dollars,

628
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:49.960
you know, if you can put
it in the right place and put

629
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:52.800
together a decent movie. This movie, you know, ran for a year

630
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:57.239
literally in a Paris movie theater.
You know, a lot of people made

631
00:44:57.239 --> 00:45:00.119
a lot of money on this particular
movie. Was the right right movie at

632
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:06.239
the right time. It wasn't particularly
successful in the movie theater on its initial

633
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:08.280
you know run, which we you
know, hoped it would be. But

634
00:45:08.360 --> 00:45:12.920
it's forever and we're still talking about
it thirty years later, which is amazing.

635
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:15.920
But you were asking me about Courtney
Vans and he with no brainer,

636
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:20.960
he said yes, And so that
made the five of us. We put

637
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:24.280
that together very very easily. How
did all the cameos come about? Are

638
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:32.320
the victims? Stacy's cousin is married
to Jason, and Jason and I met

639
00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:38.480
on a movie called White Palace,
which had predated this. He had a

640
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:42.960
great sized part and I had a
small part. But we became good friends

641
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:45.719
because we were shooting in Saint Louis, and like you know, we didn't

642
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:49.519
know anybody in Saint Louis. We
were in the hotel together and we just

643
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.199
started hanging out. He and his
wife introduced me to Stacy, and we

644
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:57.880
fell in love very immediately, you
know, and we're inseparable almost immediately.

645
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:01.920
So he was in the Shore film
that we made, He and I and

646
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:07.599
Ed Asner and a guy named Mike
Starr and a guy named Pete Adkins.

647
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:09.920
The were the actors in that.
And then when we got the opportunity to

648
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:13.360
do the feature, we of course
asked him, you know, if he'd

649
00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:15.840
if he'd do a partner. He
was hilarious. Some of the other parts

650
00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:22.400
that see Rachel Chagall, who she
does as she has she uses her finger.

651
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:25.239
I don't even remember what the hell
she was talking about. She was

652
00:46:25.639 --> 00:46:29.800
she was in White Palace with us. She was actually his wife. In

653
00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:34.280
White Palace. There's a woman named
Pamela Dean who was hilarious. She's like

654
00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:37.840
the librarian who's talking about dirty books, and she's you know, she was

655
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:44.599
in an acting class with Jason and
I wonderful actor Mark Harmon. And you

656
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:46.960
know, here's a funny thing like
Mark Harmon. We were like, really

657
00:46:47.559 --> 00:46:52.519
Mark Harmon, the guy from Summer
School. You know, we didn't you

658
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:57.000
know here we were like snobby young
gun actors and stuff, and and deb

659
00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:00.639
Zane was like, are you fucking
kidding me? If I can get you

660
00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:04.119
Mark Harmon to play this part.
Are you nuts? Shut the fuck up

661
00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:06.079
and do it, you know,
and we're like, okay, okay,

662
00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:09.039
Mark Harmon. He was fabulous,
right, and of course he went on

663
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:14.320
to be you know, mister Ncis
and and you know is a huge,

664
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:17.679
huge stuttar and was just a joy
to work with. He was so funny

665
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:22.599
and humble and wonderful. Bill Paxton, the course was great. Who plays

666
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:28.679
the Louis ferret Con character. He
was a comic that we had worked with

667
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:35.920
done some improv with. The writer
Dan Rosen was doing an improv show called

668
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:43.360
The Dysfunctional Show and he played a
rush Limball like character named Whitey Fiord and

669
00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:47.559
all of us wound up doing little
cameos in this tiny theater in Hollywood and

670
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:52.239
did a lot of improv together at
that time. We found him through there.

671
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:58.199
He was hilarious. Charles Derning,
who kind of fell asleep at the

672
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:01.599
table and couldn't remember his lines.
But you know, the movie was so

673
00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:07.760
low budget and shot so fast that
basically we just put them all in the

674
00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:12.199
chair like one at a time,
and you know, set the camera like

675
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:15.599
this. I guess Charles Journey,
we probably booth the camera once or twice.

676
00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:20.079
Bill Paxton, We certainly did,
but most of those other ones were

677
00:48:20.119 --> 00:48:22.360
just working in front of a locked
off camera. We shot them in one

678
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:29.000
day or probably one afternoon, and
they just killed I mean, you know,

679
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:31.400
they just cracked us up and it
was it was great. There's at

680
00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:36.880
least one person that's in the credits
on IMDb, and I think there are

681
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:40.000
the credits in the movie that I
don't think it's in the film. Frederick

682
00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:45.360
Lawrence as a skinhead character. Yeah. Yeah, we shot him. He

683
00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:50.840
was great. We just sort of
stuff gets cut out. And I think

684
00:48:50.920 --> 00:48:54.199
that because he was so funny and
we liked him so much, we kept

685
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:59.119
him in the credit so that he
would get his residuals. Like that's like

686
00:48:59.159 --> 00:49:02.280
how my wife, who was literally
an angel, would be like, oh

687
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:05.480
no, he was hilarious. If
we cut him out, he still gets

688
00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:07.679
paid. Put him in the credits
and he'll get his he'll get his residuals.

689
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:12.440
You know. Is it true Elizabeth
Moss was the girl in the photo

690
00:49:12.519 --> 00:49:15.920
on the Missing Fire. I've been
told that. I'm not going to say

691
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:19.800
it's not true. I don't know. I was not there when they shot

692
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:22.000
it, but I mean it probably
is true. And let's let it be

693
00:49:22.039 --> 00:49:25.199
true. Yeah, that's Elizabeth Moss
and at first to parts I don't know.

694
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:28.519
I don't know, but I've been
told that, what are some of

695
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:30.840
your favorite memories of working on the
film. You know, we was we

696
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:37.719
were young and ambitious and hungry,
and we tried all sorts of things.

697
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:42.039
There's a lot of footage that never
made it into the picture. We were

698
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:45.480
trying to find the exact tone.
One night, you know, Stacy had

699
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:52.760
shown everybody His Girl Friday, right, which is the classic screwball comedy.

700
00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:59.119
It's Rosalind Russell and Carry Grant and
they talk a mile a minute. Everybody

701
00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:02.880
is funny is hell and just like
the cues are picked up like this,

702
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:07.880
and she wanted she wanted it played
like that and some of the books I

703
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:10.360
remember, you know, we all
sat and we sort of bonded, and

704
00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:16.079
we watched the TV and we got
the videotape and saw that movie and camerons.

705
00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:20.400
For one, I remember very clearly, she had never seen a movie

706
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:23.960
like this, you know, she
was not even aware that these that a

707
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:29.320
movie like this existed, let alone
that there was people like Stacy and I

708
00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:31.480
who were you know, movie fanatics
who would be like, oh, you

709
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:34.480
got to watch this, and you
kind of watch this and it's like this

710
00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:38.159
and and so she was quite moved. She was like, oh my god,

711
00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:43.320
there's like a world of movies that
I don't know about yet. So

712
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:47.000
that was really fun sort of bonding
over that and realizing the movie could be

713
00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:52.880
played in this. You know,
these were college students and very witty,

714
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:57.000
almost to their own detriment. They
were witty. Oh. Ron Perlman was

715
00:50:57.039 --> 00:51:00.360
the other one that we cast.
Stacy used to work out at Hollywood Why,

716
00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:04.519
right, You know, she didn't
she wasn't. She didn't care like

717
00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:07.239
for a fancy gym. She went
to the Why and Ron Perlman also went

718
00:51:07.239 --> 00:51:10.159
to the Why, and the two
of them would hang out and bullshit each

719
00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:15.880
other, you know. And he
saw her reading a script on the treadmill

720
00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:19.920
and said, hey, Stacy,
what do you read? You know?

721
00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:22.519
And they would always do that with
each other, and she said, it's

722
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:27.679
a movie and actually really really perfect
for this. So he read it and

723
00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:31.519
loved it. And he was at
a point in his career where he was

724
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:37.199
saying to us, I just worked
with this crazy young kid dad in Mexico,

725
00:51:37.880 --> 00:51:43.199
and he's really talented, you know, and I really just want to

726
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:47.800
work with people like am and you
young people who are ambitious, and I

727
00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:52.400
don't want to do the old Hollywood
bullshit. The stuff that people are offering

728
00:51:52.440 --> 00:51:55.559
me in Hollywood is you know,
the ugly guy, you know. And

729
00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:59.639
so of course that was Diarmo del
Toro, and he had just done a

730
00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:02.280
Crow Knows and was you know,
he came back and said, yeah,

731
00:52:02.360 --> 00:52:06.400
he's fantastic, this kid, you
know. And of course they've had a

732
00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:10.440
really really long, long and positive
collaboration and del Toro seems to be doing

733
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:14.800
pretty good. If he keeps it
up, maybe he'll get it right eventually.

734
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:17.880
So we fought for Ron Pearlman,
right. The producers who now saw

735
00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:23.519
this cast coming together, said yeah, Ron Pearlman, we can do better

736
00:52:23.519 --> 00:52:28.519
than that. And Stacy and I
are like, we had the reaction that

737
00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:34.239
deb Zin had to us about Mark
Harman ncis. You know, there's like

738
00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:37.400
we can do better, and we're
like better than Ron Perlman, what does

739
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:40.519
that mean? Always that and they're
like that maybe Bill Murray. And I'm

740
00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:45.000
like, you're gonna get Bill Murray
for this movie. You've got Ron Pearlman

741
00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:46.639
and you're gonna try to get Bill
Murray. Okay you want to, I'll

742
00:52:46.679 --> 00:52:50.719
give you ten minutes to try to
get Bill Murray and then you better lock

743
00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:54.000
up Ron Pearlman. Honestly, we
drove over to their office, Stacy and

744
00:52:54.039 --> 00:52:58.719
I jumped in the car. We
were like on the phone and we didn't

745
00:52:58.719 --> 00:53:00.639
have zoom. Then we said we're
coming over there, you know, and

746
00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:05.519
we hung up the boat and literally
drove across town and just gotten their faces

747
00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:07.719
like, are you nuts? He's
perfect? Cast him, cast him,

748
00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:12.000
cast him, and we just made
them cast run Erlman. And of course

749
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:15.400
he was. He's fantastic in the
park and he's fantast Bill Murray's pretty good

750
00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:20.000
too. But we weren't going to
get Bill Murray no way. So that

751
00:53:20.079 --> 00:53:22.440
was fun. I remember that now
driving across town and Stacy and are just

752
00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:24.719
going they gotta do it, They
gotta do it. We gotta get him,

753
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:28.639
you know. So they responded to
that, and people, you know,

754
00:53:28.760 --> 00:53:32.920
respond to passion and enthusiasm. They
really do. They want to be

755
00:53:32.920 --> 00:53:36.360
a part of that. You know. He's something that I kind of say

756
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:38.840
to to people is is you know, if you build it, they will

757
00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:43.039
come. If you give them something
to do. People want to work and

758
00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:45.000
if they see like, yeah,
you're gonna do it, whether they help

759
00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:49.159
you or not, then they want
to help you. You know, if

760
00:53:49.400 --> 00:53:52.559
you're not coming to them for help, it's very easy for them to say,

761
00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:58.079
let me help you. We were
able to put it together really pretty

762
00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:02.119
quickly. Things came together. Alec
Hammond who was our designer. That was

763
00:54:02.199 --> 00:54:07.800
his first movie that he was the
straight up designer. Renfields his movie,

764
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:13.400
so he's been doing fantastic for years, Mark Mother's Ball. I think we

765
00:54:13.400 --> 00:54:16.239
were his first feature. He'd been
working kind of for Nickelodeon and he had

766
00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:21.639
this little band Devo, but he
was trying to get into features and he

767
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:24.159
had done our short again a friend
of a friend, and he said,

768
00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:28.960
sure, I'll do it. So
we were able to pull together some really

769
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:32.400
really wonderful, talented, talented people. Norah Dunn came on board. I

770
00:54:32.440 --> 00:54:36.480
think she might have been a friend
of Dan Rosen through the comedy world.

771
00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:39.119
I'm not sure how he got her, but she was great. The movie

772
00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:44.320
was an eighteen day shoot. You
know. The last night, one of

773
00:54:44.360 --> 00:54:51.119
the interns who was smoking way too
much weed, accidentally knocked over a worklight

774
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:55.000
in the attic and set fire to
the house. That was exciting. So

775
00:54:55.039 --> 00:55:00.000
we were all evacuated and there's one
shot that we got a really one take,

776
00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:06.239
and that's what's in the movie because
as we're as we're acting, we're

777
00:55:06.239 --> 00:55:08.559
sort of aware that, like,
you know, behind the camera, people

778
00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:13.679
are starting to like run back and
forth, and Stacy was just like,

779
00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:15.840
keep going, you know, keep
going. So we just talked, talk,

780
00:55:15.880 --> 00:55:17.880
talk, cut everybody, get out
of the house, Get out of

781
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:22.719
that. The house was on fire. The worst thing that could have happened,

782
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:25.280
you know, instead of having a
big party that night. There was

783
00:55:25.360 --> 00:55:29.719
the fire trumps, you know,
and the house was brenched in water.

784
00:55:30.199 --> 00:55:34.599
But then we were able to make
an insurance claim and get two days of

785
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:37.639
reshoots using the insurance money. So
you know, it turned out to be

786
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:40.280
a good thing. So it really
taught us that, you know, what

787
00:55:40.360 --> 00:55:44.800
seems to be a bad thing might
actually be a good thing because we got

788
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:46.840
a bunch of extra shit that we
could shoot. Oh I was saying that,

789
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:51.400
you know, the tone of the
picture was not quite clear, and

790
00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:55.920
we found it as as as we
cut. But we did try some slapstick

791
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:04.079
stuff. We tried some really out
there you know comedy that was two out

792
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:07.079
there didn't it didn't fit tonally,
and so that all got cut out of

793
00:56:07.119 --> 00:56:10.880
the picture. So the picture is
right now, much more contained and what

794
00:56:12.000 --> 00:56:16.199
you see. Honestly, the music
helped immeasurably. When Sony came on board.

795
00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:20.679
We had all this temp music.
Again, we had no idea what

796
00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:22.320
we were doing. You know,
so when you make a movie, when

797
00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:27.280
you do anything, I guess,
you put the soundtrack that you want and

798
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:30.000
then and then you realize, like, well, we can't ever use any

799
00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:32.960
of this music because it's all really
expensive music. But you get the idea

800
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:37.480
of what should be here and there. And Sony picked up the movie and

801
00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:39.239
said, you know what, the
music's great. We'll just pay for all

802
00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:43.920
the music. So that basically doubled
the budget. It was, you know,

803
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:47.519
quarter of a million dollars in making
the movie and then another couple of

804
00:56:47.639 --> 00:56:52.400
hundred thousand dollars to get all that
fantastic music. And then they put out

805
00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:59.000
a pretty successful soundtrack using many of
those songs and some of the Mark Mother's

806
00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:04.960
Ball original music. A mite of
Sony One Sony got their hands on the

807
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.840
picture and they you know, had
a theatrical release. As I say it,

808
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:13.480
was not as successful at theatrical release
as we all had hoped it would

809
00:57:13.480 --> 00:57:15.639
be. When we can talk about
why that might have been. But but

810
00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:19.599
you know, once they got their
hands on the picture and we're going to

811
00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:23.519
turn it into a Sony movie,
that extra two hundred thousand dollars, which

812
00:57:23.639 --> 00:57:27.480
was, you know, an enormous
amount of money for us. Was like,

813
00:57:27.480 --> 00:57:30.480
oh, yeah, sure, we'll
spend that's that makes sense to us.

814
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:34.639
You know, we're like, right, perfect, you play a painter

815
00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:37.400
in the film, and I know
these aren't your paintings, there's somebody else's.

816
00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:40.679
But what was that like for you? And what do you take as

817
00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:45.000
far as the symbolism of these paintings
that's going on. The symbolism was that

818
00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:52.880
I was a creative character who you
know, wound up creating something way beyond

819
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:57.639
is controlled and he was sort of
an intellectual character, as I say,

820
00:57:57.840 --> 00:58:04.559
creative character who put some into the
world that was tosic and disgusting. The

821
00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:08.679
symbolism of the paintings themselves. We
were in the hands of the painters who

822
00:58:08.760 --> 00:58:12.920
made the work for us. We
were able to talk a little bit,

823
00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:15.679
and we talked to a couple of
different painters who presented. You know,

824
00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:22.280
we couldn't afford to buy too much
original artwork. We'll talk about that in

825
00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:25.960
a set. But but so there
were two different painters I believe, who

826
00:58:27.199 --> 00:58:30.480
showed us their work, you know, this work for you guys. I

827
00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:35.280
guess we'd give them some nominal amount
of money to use their paintings. And

828
00:58:35.400 --> 00:58:40.400
then there were one or two pictures
that I ostensibly was painting in the movie.

829
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:44.880
I think if you see the way
it's cut, though I'm painting,

830
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:49.639
I'm not sure I'm ever actually painting
in front of the cantling. You know.

831
00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:55.079
The one painting that was commissioned Bill
Paxton, who was a big art

832
00:58:55.159 --> 00:59:00.480
collector actually in aficionado, and you'll
forgive me, I don't remember the painter's

833
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:04.599
name. Um, he collected these
paintings of this guy and he said,

834
00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:09.119
let's use his work. So all
of the paintings on the opening credits are

835
00:59:09.320 --> 00:59:16.159
his. And there was one painting
that he created for the movie, and

836
00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:21.679
that's the that's the end painting,
you know, with the bodies and all

837
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:25.039
that. So that I guess we
paid him a thousand dollars or something to

838
00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:29.679
make a painting for us. I
wish I was smarter a bad symbolism.

839
00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:34.400
Don't know how to answer it.
Is your character prescient? Or do you

840
00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:40.440
survive the evening with Ron Perelman because
the last painting is him alive and it

841
00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:45.440
looks like the rest of you dead. Right, What a great question.

842
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:50.639
I think that I'm dead, and
I guess now that we're talking about it,

843
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:53.679
God must have made the Ron Pearlman
painted the painting. I don't know.

844
00:59:53.920 --> 00:59:58.960
It's a fake. It's like this
fake said of Bascuiats that somebody you

845
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:01.880
know made a because the story was
going to be the story was going to

846
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:07.079
be a hugely successful story. This
is just a facile answer. The answer

847
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:09.199
is it was stupid of us.
We didn't ever think of it. I

848
01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:13.800
haven't thought of it until this second. That, of course, if I

849
01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:16.159
was dead, how the hell could
I paint that painting? So I'll say

850
01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:21.480
I was prescient. I knew I
had some idea that this was what was

851
01:00:21.559 --> 01:00:25.159
going to happen, and I painted
a painting of my own demise. That's

852
01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:29.840
the answer. Terrible answer. Sara, tell me about the reception of the

853
01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:34.519
film. You mentioned that before,
the affection for the film has grown.

854
01:00:35.079 --> 01:00:42.159
I think that the flaws in the
filmmaking. These seems were pretty obvious.

855
01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:47.400
You know when the picture was made. There's two musical interludes. You know,

856
01:00:47.519 --> 01:00:52.360
there's two montages. That's probably one
montage too many. If you have

857
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:57.760
to lean on a montage, boy, that's tough. And so that was

858
01:00:57.880 --> 01:01:02.360
that was like the storytelling on our
part was a little sloppy. The script

859
01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:05.719
and again, you know, you
don't know what you don't know. We

860
01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:09.119
never made a feature, never any
of us. So you know the fact

861
01:01:09.159 --> 01:01:15.880
that the script structure probably could have
been would have been different. There's no

862
01:01:16.039 --> 01:01:20.920
regrets because the picture stands up.
It's a very interesting kind of product of

863
01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:23.159
its time, and I still think
it works, you know today, it's

864
01:01:23.199 --> 01:01:28.920
an interesting movie and a fun movie. But for whatever reason, it didn't

865
01:01:28.960 --> 01:01:31.079
take off in the way that they
hoped it would. And I don't know

866
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:36.679
if it wanted to have a slower
rollout, I just don't know. Some

867
01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:39.159
of the critics were like lukewarm on
it. Yeah, this is kind of

868
01:01:39.239 --> 01:01:44.199
funny, and this is kind of
interesting, but what's it really saying?

869
01:01:44.519 --> 01:01:47.679
What's it really about? And I
think in time over time now as we're

870
01:01:47.719 --> 01:01:52.719
talking about it, I think everyone
can say what they think it's about it's

871
01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:58.360
really open for interpretation, and that's
a good thing and not a flaw to

872
01:01:58.519 --> 01:02:01.360
the movie really as embraced. I
think it's a liberal movie, but I

873
01:02:01.559 --> 01:02:07.320
have conservative not too many conservative friends, but I know conservative folks who say,

874
01:02:07.360 --> 01:02:09.239
like, oh, you know,
it's totally anti liberal. They all

875
01:02:09.280 --> 01:02:13.519
fucking die and deserve to die.
And the one who's you know, his

876
01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:16.920
left standing is rush Limbaugh Archie saying
that the you know, the power is

877
01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:21.519
in the is in the hands of
the media, and you know that that

878
01:02:21.639 --> 01:02:23.719
if you're too extreme in either end, you're going to get it in the

879
01:02:23.880 --> 01:02:28.239
neck. And that's kind of the
message I think, you know, Certainly,

880
01:02:28.280 --> 01:02:32.599
Stacy and I would said that we
were liberal, progressive people. Um

881
01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:37.280
Dan Rosen certainly was, you know, but he also, more than any

882
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:40.960
of us, saw the absurdity in
some of the extreme views on the right

883
01:02:42.079 --> 01:02:45.360
and the left, and so he
was able to kind of skewer the extreme

884
01:02:45.719 --> 01:02:50.960
folks, and we were able to
put some fun characters up there and really

885
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:52.280
try to make people laugh, you
know, the picture. We saw it

886
01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:58.360
as a straight up comedy that had
some intelligence behind it, you know.

887
01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:01.920
But again, we were moving so
fast on such a low budget. You

888
01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:07.840
know that mistakes like the painting mistake, which is clearly like we never even

889
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:10.960
thought about it got made. Thirty
years of hindsight is a lot of time

890
01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:14.880
to think about a movie that was
made, you know, in a couple

891
01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:20.239
of months. Really, there are
theatrical versions of it. People have talked

892
01:03:20.239 --> 01:03:23.559
about doing a musical of it.
People have made plays of it. I

893
01:03:23.719 --> 01:03:28.719
have nothing to do with them and
haven't seen them, but I know that

894
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:31.679
once in a while it shows up, because it's basically five people sitting around

895
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:37.159
the table, you know, And
the movie itself was shot all on one

896
01:03:37.239 --> 01:03:40.840
location except for one or two days
when we went outside, you know,

897
01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:46.119
and so it's very, very contained. And the poster of the movie this

898
01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:51.079
is this maybe one of the reasons
it didn't succeed, or did succeed to

899
01:03:51.159 --> 01:03:54.679
the degree it did. But you
know, Tim Carey was at his absolute

900
01:03:55.199 --> 01:04:01.320
ultra same at that point, and
the distry eater put a guy in the

901
01:04:01.480 --> 01:04:06.960
foreground dead on the table in front
of us, and I said, he's

902
01:04:08.400 --> 01:04:11.719
well, he's not in the movie. That's not a character that even shows

903
01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:15.039
up in the movie. And the
distributor was like, yeah, but maybe

904
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:18.199
people will think Jim Carrey is in
it, and so you know the same

905
01:04:18.280 --> 01:04:23.960
folks that were kind enough to buy
it and put all that music in were

906
01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:27.519
the folks who are responsible for trying
to figure out how to get an audience

907
01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:30.920
in front of it. And they
marketed it in a way that I don't

908
01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:35.800
think really heed into the power of
the movie. But maybe they were right

909
01:04:35.880 --> 01:04:41.320
in trying to go for a big
broad comedy audience and not a more specific,

910
01:04:41.679 --> 01:04:46.079
nuanced audience. I don't know anyway
that happened. The team that produced

911
01:04:46.119 --> 01:04:49.480
it in the company that produced it, and they called themselves the Vault.

912
01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:55.440
I'm not sure why. Maybe they
thought they'd get buried in the vault.

913
01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:59.760
I think they only made one more
movie after that. You know. So

914
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:03.880
Tony doesn't have a streaming service of
their own. Unger for the picture just

915
01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:11.480
may not be there until until people
see this extraordinary podcast and then they demand

916
01:05:11.719 --> 01:05:15.000
that it be made available on Bluebred. I can certainly reach out to some

917
01:05:15.159 --> 01:05:18.000
folks, I know it's Sony and
say, what do you guys think it

918
01:05:18.199 --> 01:05:21.480
is the thirtieth anniversary this year?
Is that right? Yeah? They should

919
01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:25.519
do something. I mean, it's
got it well of a cast. Oh

920
01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:28.519
hell, yeah. Yeah, And
that's the thing. It's just amazing to

921
01:05:28.719 --> 01:05:31.239
list off the people that are in
there and be like, this is all

922
01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:36.400
one movie. All these people are
in Yeah, crazy Charles, who was

923
01:05:36.519 --> 01:05:40.719
so fun. I mean, you
know, just just person after person that

924
01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:43.480
we wield that. Yeah, that's
great. Well, Jonathan, thank you

925
01:05:43.559 --> 01:05:45.559
so much for your time. This
is great talking with you as always my

926
01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:48.679
pleasure though. Thanks everybody, go
check it out, enjoy the movie.

927
01:06:15.800 --> 01:06:18.880
Dan Rosen, thank you so much
for joining me today. I'm so excited

928
01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:23.800
to talk with you. You started
a comedy club when you were eighteen years

929
01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:29.039
old, technically one week before I
was eighteen. Holy cow. It was

930
01:06:29.119 --> 01:06:31.519
one of those things I was too
young to know that I couldn't do it,

931
01:06:31.960 --> 01:06:34.800
and it was basically just going into
I had made a little bit of

932
01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:40.679
a name of my summer that summer
in Baltimore and seeing at a comedy club

933
01:06:40.719 --> 01:06:43.360
called city Lights. You know,
I thought, it's pretty simple to do

934
01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:45.559
a comedy club. You bring in
the comedians and you put them up and

935
01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:49.559
you do the show. So I
went to a place that was doing really

936
01:06:49.639 --> 01:06:54.199
bad business nearby. I said,
hey, give me your third floor.

937
01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:57.760
I'll take the cover charge, you
take the bar, and I'll bring in

938
01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:01.079
comedians. And our first comedian with
Paul Reiser, who had been in the

939
01:07:01.159 --> 01:07:04.320
movie Diner, which had a big
hit in Baltimore. Of course it was

940
01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:11.559
filmed there and he drew a lot
of people, and that gave us,

941
01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:15.199
got us enough money for the next
weekend, and we had Bill Maher.

942
01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:18.679
This is all nineteen eighty I want
to say eighty three lasted about seven or

943
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:23.599
eight years. That's amazing. So
you both owned it, ran it,

944
01:07:23.719 --> 01:07:27.000
and then were a comedian yourself.
Yeah. Yeah. I was a stand

945
01:07:27.079 --> 01:07:30.679
up as well for thirteen year.
Yeah, and then stop when I had

946
01:07:30.800 --> 01:07:33.559
written the last right when I was
starting to think about, all right,

947
01:07:33.559 --> 01:07:36.079
maybe I don't want to stand up
anymore and I want to be a film

948
01:07:36.159 --> 01:07:42.679
writer. And then I was on
a not a great gig for two weeks

949
01:07:42.719 --> 01:07:45.280
in Rino, Nevada. Had just
down out. The day before that,

950
01:07:45.639 --> 01:07:50.239
my girlfriend left me for my best
friend back home, and I was supposed

951
01:07:50.239 --> 01:07:55.719
to meet her in Lake Tahoe while
I was working in Rino. So I

952
01:07:55.760 --> 01:07:58.840
didn't want to leave my room anyway, and I thought, all right,

953
01:07:58.880 --> 01:08:00.920
I'm just not going to leave my
room until I write ten pages a day.

954
01:08:01.639 --> 01:08:04.159
There was a book. I don't
know if I was using it or

955
01:08:04.239 --> 01:08:08.440
not, a book called Vicky King
How to Write a Movie in twenty one

956
01:08:08.519 --> 01:08:10.440
Days. I don't know if you
ever heard of that book, and I

957
01:08:10.440 --> 01:08:13.000
don't even know if I was doing
it, but I was trying. My

958
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:15.639
goal was I'm going to write ten
pages a day. I'm going to be

959
01:08:15.679 --> 01:08:17.920
finish in nine days. And that's
what I did, and that was the

960
01:08:18.039 --> 01:08:24.439
last supper. That first script is
pretty close to what became the shooting script,

961
01:08:24.960 --> 01:08:29.479
although there were some changes, though
if my math is correct, that

962
01:08:29.680 --> 01:08:32.960
was probably around ninety two ninety three
when you wrote that. There was a

963
01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:39.119
ninety three spring of ninety three.
Can you tell me your version of how

964
01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:42.960
you ended up getting this thing made? So spring of ninety three, I

965
01:08:43.039 --> 01:08:46.119
write this script again. I might
have seasons off a little bit, and

966
01:08:46.239 --> 01:08:49.680
I had read the whole movie took
place in one room, in the dining

967
01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:54.520
room, and I wrote it that
way, specifically thinking, Okay, I

968
01:08:54.640 --> 01:08:58.000
can either make this as a movie, like a cheap movie, or I

969
01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:01.720
can make this as a play.
And I got so. I was a

970
01:09:01.760 --> 01:09:04.039
stand up comic. I have a
lot of friends who were stand up comics,

971
01:09:04.359 --> 01:09:06.880
and I put a group of comics
together to do a table read.

972
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:13.279
In that table read was Bob oden
Kirk, who was you know, nobody

973
01:09:13.359 --> 01:09:18.439
back then, Janine Garoffalo Sarah's Silverman, my friend Warren Hutcherson who ended up

974
01:09:18.439 --> 01:09:23.560
having a small part in the movie
David Cross. And that was before odin

975
01:09:23.600 --> 01:09:26.880
Kirk and Croft. That was way
before they did their show together. And

976
01:09:27.079 --> 01:09:30.359
I had a comedy improv show at
the time called The Dysfunctional Show and all

977
01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:33.680
these Guys, which was kind of
like a improv Jerry Springer show. And

978
01:09:33.720 --> 01:09:38.279
all these guys were in that show
or had been in it, So that

979
01:09:38.560 --> 01:09:41.880
was pretty much. There were some
other people. I'm forgetting who else was

980
01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:45.000
in that cast. I just invite
everyone I know was that it was.

981
01:09:45.079 --> 01:09:46.840
Back then it was called the Richard
Pryor Theater. I don't think it's there

982
01:09:46.880 --> 01:09:49.960
anymore in Hollywood, and I think
I rented it for one hundred bucks,

983
01:09:50.359 --> 01:09:55.399
which is a lot of money in
me back then. And then one guy

984
01:09:55.560 --> 01:09:59.720
came who was a my father said, oh, you should invite my friends

985
01:10:00.880 --> 01:10:04.600
Larry Weinberg, who wants to be
a movie producer. And then Larry came

986
01:10:04.680 --> 01:10:08.600
and said, oh my god,
this is really good. I have some

987
01:10:08.840 --> 01:10:11.239
notes, but you know, I'd
like to try and make this or whatever.

988
01:10:11.680 --> 01:10:13.920
So he gave me some notes.
I didn't think the notes were very

989
01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:18.399
good. And then nothing really happened. And then a couple months during that

990
01:10:18.600 --> 01:10:25.359
summer, Jeanine Garofolo people Forget dream
Garofolo was on the cusp of being America's

991
01:10:25.359 --> 01:10:29.199
sweetheart. She was she could have
been the next Sandy Bullock. She had

992
01:10:29.239 --> 01:10:32.760
been in I'm Trying of Reality Bites, and then she followed it up with

993
01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:38.199
a great movie, The Truth about
Katine Dogs. And we were we were

994
01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:42.960
friends and we were talking once and
she was saying how she's getting all these

995
01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:46.199
scripts and they're all horrible. And
she goes, whatever happened to that reading

996
01:10:46.279 --> 01:10:48.760
that we did? And I said, oh, this producers involved gave me

997
01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:51.880
some notes. I'm so figuring out
or whatever, and she goes, because

998
01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:55.600
I would love to do that.
That's the kind of felon I want to

999
01:10:55.640 --> 01:10:58.560
do. And I go really,
and she goes yeah. And so then

1000
01:10:58.600 --> 01:11:00.439
I went back because she wasn't like
famous when she was in the reading,

1001
01:11:00.479 --> 01:11:03.199
but like a couple months later she
was. So I go back to Larry

1002
01:11:03.199 --> 01:11:06.000
and said, hey, Janine,
wants to be in this, and by

1003
01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:09.720
the way, it was a part
of Jude played by Cameron Diaz ultimately,

1004
01:11:09.920 --> 01:11:14.359
and Larry said, oh god,
well that changes some things a little bit.

1005
01:11:14.800 --> 01:11:17.119
Did you make the changes to the
script? And I paused for a

1006
01:11:17.159 --> 01:11:19.880
second. I'm like, yeah,
yeah, yeah, I made all your

1007
01:11:19.960 --> 01:11:21.840
changes. I didn't. I didn't
do any of them. And then I

1008
01:11:21.920 --> 01:11:26.600
handed the script back to him and
he read it and wrote me back or

1009
01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:29.359
called me back and goes, oh
my god, my change is really worked.

1010
01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:31.520
The script reads so much better now. And that was because, you

1011
01:11:31.640 --> 01:11:35.920
know, he saw Janine in the
part, probably so it's not quite as

1012
01:11:35.960 --> 01:11:40.600
idiotic as maybe I've made it up
to do. But but I didn't make

1013
01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:43.880
any changes. So now Janine's gonna
be in it. And then I don't

1014
01:11:43.960 --> 01:11:46.720
know their complete end of it,
but he got this guy involved named Matt

1015
01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:51.600
Cooper's family had a lot of money
somewhere, and they started putting things together

1016
01:11:53.359 --> 01:11:59.359
and they started sending it out to
some directors. There was a guy named

1017
01:11:59.399 --> 01:12:01.239
Michael Addas, so I'm still friends
with us to this day, Stacy.

1018
01:12:01.359 --> 01:12:05.439
Of course, there was one other
person, and then, to their credit,

1019
01:12:05.520 --> 01:12:10.119
I met with each of them to
discuss like the film or whatever,

1020
01:12:10.800 --> 01:12:15.439
and we all decided on Stacy.
Then at some point the cast just started

1021
01:12:15.479 --> 01:12:18.239
coming in and I realized Courty Evans
with the first actor I met with.

1022
01:12:18.880 --> 01:12:21.840
He said to me like, oh
my god, you know I love your

1023
01:12:21.880 --> 01:12:25.720
script. And I go, what
do you like so much? Because my

1024
01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:27.720
first script? Like, what do
you like so much about it? And

1025
01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:30.159
he just flips through the script and
goes, look at all this dialogue.

1026
01:12:30.720 --> 01:12:33.760
He goes, this is every any
actor's dream. He goes, any actor

1027
01:12:33.800 --> 01:12:36.720
would love the script. And then
I realized, oh, of course,

1028
01:12:36.800 --> 01:12:40.479
actor, it was like the act
after the to talk whatever, and this

1029
01:12:40.680 --> 01:12:45.359
was him coming off of John Legar's
sixties of separation, so that was like

1030
01:12:45.439 --> 01:12:47.640
the biggest compliment ever. So I
think he signed on board. And then

1031
01:12:47.680 --> 01:12:54.239
at some point Jeanine got Sarenette Live
and couldn't do it and wasn't available,

1032
01:12:54.920 --> 01:13:00.600
and Stacy's lawyer, Patty, I
forget her last name, his Patty.

1033
01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:06.680
She represented young Cameron Diaz who had
just been in The Mask and they'd given

1034
01:13:06.720 --> 01:13:11.600
the script of her. She'd liked
it. We did a reading for her.

1035
01:13:12.159 --> 01:13:15.920
She came to the reading and really
she did read. She watched and

1036
01:13:16.079 --> 01:13:19.039
really liked it and said she wanted
to do it. And then at that

1037
01:13:19.199 --> 01:13:24.680
point, I think for budgetary reasons, we had six roommates. David Cross

1038
01:13:24.880 --> 01:13:28.119
was the sixth one, playing a
character named Daniel. There. I don't

1039
01:13:28.119 --> 01:13:30.880
know if you notice, they're all
named from the Bible, and Daniel was

1040
01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:34.600
the part I wrote for myself,
of course, being Daniel and David was

1041
01:13:34.680 --> 01:13:40.520
great. And I had to call
him and tell I couldn't get him on

1042
01:13:40.520 --> 01:13:44.399
the phone and left the message saying, sorry, the director cut you out

1043
01:13:45.239 --> 01:13:48.000
down to five roommates. And he
has never spoken to me since. Oh,

1044
01:13:48.119 --> 01:13:51.520
out the nineteen ninety three as if, by the way, as if

1045
01:13:51.600 --> 01:13:56.079
the writer has anything to do.
And then I found years later a friend

1046
01:13:56.119 --> 01:14:00.279
of mine was dating him and she
said I told her that story. She's

1047
01:14:00.319 --> 01:14:01.359
like, oh, let's let's hang
out with David or whatever, and I

1048
01:14:01.520 --> 01:14:04.159
go, I don't think he likes
me. And I was friends with him,

1049
01:14:04.199 --> 01:14:08.079
and I said, no, and
are you kidding me? That's ten

1050
01:14:08.239 --> 01:14:12.399
years ago. He or whatever,
he knows he makes movies. He knows

1051
01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:15.439
that that's not that's not your decision. And she called me the next day

1052
01:14:15.479 --> 01:14:18.159
she goes, oh, he really
is still mad at you about that again,

1053
01:14:18.279 --> 01:14:20.319
like I had anything to do with
this. I mean, it all

1054
01:14:20.319 --> 01:14:25.039
about made. So I wrote it
springing ninety three. We were shooting like

1055
01:14:25.359 --> 01:14:29.399
fall of ninety four, so that
was I got very spoiled. That was

1056
01:14:29.479 --> 01:14:32.560
really fast, and then we made
it. There was a very mysterious fire.

1057
01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:35.399
We got to do a little bit
of reshoots. Then we had a

1058
01:14:35.479 --> 01:14:39.439
screening at Paramount. Again, I
want to say that was the summer,

1059
01:14:40.119 --> 01:14:43.359
and I thought that was a little
premature. They sold the film. This

1060
01:14:43.640 --> 01:14:48.760
was like a ninety four ninety five
before like Sundance's obviously like very prestigious,

1061
01:14:49.079 --> 01:14:53.000
but they had not had those like
movie deals like you hear about now.

1062
01:14:53.520 --> 01:14:56.760
And I really think if we would
have waited, certainly, if we would

1063
01:14:56.760 --> 01:15:00.399
have waited, we screened it to
Toronto Film Festival first, then we did

1064
01:15:00.479 --> 01:15:02.760
London, then we did Sundance,
and I think we're one of the only

1065
01:15:02.880 --> 01:15:08.800
films to ever do Toronto and Sundance
because they don't they don't allow that anymore.

1066
01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:12.960
I think we would have probably sold
and had a bigger profile. So

1067
01:15:13.079 --> 01:15:15.239
you said that the script that you
wrote was very close to what we end

1068
01:15:15.359 --> 01:15:20.520
up seeing. Yes, do you
remember any of the differences between the two.

1069
01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:25.640
Well, the big one was The
Roommates. We opened up the script

1070
01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:30.199
a little bit. Actually, the
original idea was that they I never finished

1071
01:15:30.239 --> 01:15:32.960
that version of it. The original
idea was that they would kill the person

1072
01:15:33.039 --> 01:15:36.159
and then they would eat them in
the next meal. I was influenced by

1073
01:15:36.199 --> 01:15:39.479
that movie, Diva. But there
was another movie that was kind of like

1074
01:15:39.600 --> 01:15:42.760
that. Forgot who was That came
out around the time, but I dismissed

1075
01:15:42.760 --> 01:15:45.800
that I had pretty quick. But
it was The Roommates, and it was

1076
01:15:45.920 --> 01:15:50.119
same beginning, same ending. Jenny
Tyler was still in there. Actually,

1077
01:15:50.199 --> 01:15:54.199
ironically, the person that wasn't in
there was a character played by me,

1078
01:15:54.920 --> 01:15:59.159
Deputy Harford, And I think that
was because Stacy said, oh you because

1079
01:15:59.199 --> 01:16:02.359
Stacy at that point was coming to
see and Jonathan and Jonathan was in it

1080
01:16:02.720 --> 01:16:05.079
this dysfunctional show, and she's like, oh, you're really funny. You

1081
01:16:05.199 --> 01:16:09.560
need to be in the film.
And so we wrote this part of the

1082
01:16:09.680 --> 01:16:14.520
deputy, who's kind of like the
backstory was he's kind of in love with

1083
01:16:14.680 --> 01:16:18.680
Nora Dunne, the sheriff. And
there was one version this was not in

1084
01:16:18.840 --> 01:16:24.159
my original script. There was one
version of the film that we actually filmed

1085
01:16:24.880 --> 01:16:30.680
where the roommates are killed and then
it's Deputy Hartford that finds Jenny Tyler and

1086
01:16:30.800 --> 01:16:34.239
they find her alive. And Stacy
had me write that, and but we

1087
01:16:34.439 --> 01:16:39.800
never we film We did film it
because I have these strange pictures with me

1088
01:16:40.159 --> 01:16:44.000
and oh my god, I always
forget her name who played Jenny Moss,

1089
01:16:44.399 --> 01:16:46.479
that was her Eliza's boss for film. I have her like on my shoulder,

1090
01:16:46.600 --> 01:16:49.720
like I saved her from like she
was tied up in a shack or

1091
01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:53.479
something like that. And there was
also a scene where we walk in and

1092
01:16:53.880 --> 01:16:57.720
we see all the roommates dead in
the house, but we ended up not

1093
01:16:57.840 --> 01:17:00.079
using any of that, so we
pretty much stuck to the original scrip it.

1094
01:17:00.479 --> 01:17:03.039
Now, if the roommates are dead, who paints the picture of them

1095
01:17:03.199 --> 01:17:06.640
with Ron Pearland walking away? I
don't know, because that wasn't in my

1096
01:17:06.720 --> 01:17:10.800
script. Yeah, I think that's
just supposed to be, Like, I

1097
01:17:10.840 --> 01:17:13.520
don't think anyone was to us to
have painted that. The use of the

1098
01:17:13.600 --> 01:17:17.000
tomatoes is fantastic. Everyone everyone talks
about that, Oh the tomatoes. It's

1099
01:17:17.039 --> 01:17:21.479
a metaphor because they're they're blood red
or whatever. It literally was just because

1100
01:17:23.199 --> 01:17:27.720
I have this weird thing where I
love com catch up, I love tomato

1101
01:17:27.760 --> 01:17:31.279
sauce. I don't like tomatoes,
and I'm sure when I was writing it,

1102
01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:35.279
I probably ordered a club sandwich that
came with a tomato and I'm like,

1103
01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:39.279
God, I hate what kind of
tomato. And then I put in

1104
01:17:39.399 --> 01:17:43.239
the script this being your first movie
that you were able to make where you

1105
01:17:43.319 --> 01:17:46.640
ultimately satisfied with what ended up happening
with it. I thought Sony made a

1106
01:17:46.720 --> 01:17:50.680
big mistake. They released it like
in the spring of ninety six, there

1107
01:17:50.800 --> 01:17:56.560
was like a big presidential election going
on, and they definitely shied away.

1108
01:17:56.600 --> 01:17:59.960
It was so crazy. The reason
people loved it was because of the Paul

1109
01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:03.000
politics of it. And you could
tell right away Sony was completely scared of

1110
01:18:03.039 --> 01:18:06.560
the politics of it, even though
they bought it. And you know,

1111
01:18:06.720 --> 01:18:10.399
I had this suggestion and was like, oh my god, we need to

1112
01:18:10.600 --> 01:18:17.560
do like a fundraiser for some bipartisan
group or something for debates or somehow tie

1113
01:18:17.640 --> 01:18:21.640
it in, and they just kind
of like buried it. And it didn't

1114
01:18:21.680 --> 01:18:27.000
really it didn't really do anything in
the States. It became a giant hit

1115
01:18:27.119 --> 01:18:30.159
in France. So I was like
the Jerry Lewis of independent screenwriters there for

1116
01:18:30.199 --> 01:18:34.279
a while. It played in one
theater for two years, and that's how

1117
01:18:34.359 --> 01:18:39.520
I got to direct right and direct
my next film because the producers of that

1118
01:18:40.319 --> 01:18:44.000
made so much money off The Last
Supper in France. They came to me

1119
01:18:44.039 --> 01:18:46.760
and said, well, anything you
want to do, will we'll finance.

1120
01:18:47.239 --> 01:18:50.279
Yeah. The one thing that I
really admired about The Last Supper was just

1121
01:18:50.439 --> 01:18:54.640
the level of talent and the cast, you know, and even you're talking

1122
01:18:54.640 --> 01:18:57.680
about the table raid and just the
level there, but then who actually gets

1123
01:18:57.760 --> 01:19:00.479
casts. It's just fantastic. I'm
a huge Tron Perlman fan. Of course

1124
01:19:00.560 --> 01:19:04.600
Bill Paxton, I mean all the
way down, like Mark Harman and Charles

1125
01:19:04.680 --> 01:19:09.000
Diurning was in the film. Yes, Oh my god, it's just amazing.

1126
01:19:09.560 --> 01:19:13.159
So Bill Paxson, the late grade
Bill Paxson sadly, so this is

1127
01:19:13.239 --> 01:19:15.800
kind of crazy. I had just
moved, wasn't even really living in LA

1128
01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:19.760
I was kind of commuting between New
York and la as a stand up as

1129
01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:24.479
working on that early Comedy Central show
writing for it. Somehow, I'm at

1130
01:19:24.520 --> 01:19:29.600
a Thanksgiving party and Bill Paxton is
there. Not famous Bill Paxton. This

1131
01:19:29.720 --> 01:19:35.079
is like nineteen ninety. I want's
say nine it's comin two and maybe nine

1132
01:19:35.239 --> 01:19:39.560
day actually, but we can figure
this out because I'm going to mention a

1133
01:19:39.560 --> 01:19:44.520
film. You can probably look it
up. And we start talking. Recognized

1134
01:19:44.600 --> 01:19:46.199
him from some film, maybe it
was Weird Science or something, and I

1135
01:19:46.279 --> 01:19:50.000
said, hey, aren't you in
that Predator sequel that came out today?

1136
01:19:50.079 --> 01:19:53.800
It was Thanksgiving Day? And he
goes, I am. He goes,

1137
01:19:53.880 --> 01:19:57.000
man, Man, I really want
to see it too, or whatever.

1138
01:19:57.159 --> 01:20:00.199
I'm like, well, if you're
as bored as I am here, why

1139
01:20:00.199 --> 01:20:02.640
because we didn't know anybody, why
don't we go Neither one of us drove

1140
01:20:02.720 --> 01:20:08.680
either. Why don't we take a
taxi and go to it's playing at Westwood

1141
01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:13.199
And back then Westwood was not like
a nice neighborhood. And he's like really,

1142
01:20:13.239 --> 01:20:14.880
and I'm like, yeah, let's
do it. So we get in

1143
01:20:14.920 --> 01:20:19.079
a taxi, we go and there
next to Bill Paxson watching Predators and he

1144
01:20:19.159 --> 01:20:24.600
gets his I don't even remember he
gets his head decapitated. And near the

1145
01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:30.319
end of the screening or the film, people started noticing him and like,

1146
01:20:30.439 --> 01:20:32.399
wait a minutum, Hey, that's
the guy that you know. And so

1147
01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:35.800
we get out of the movie theater
and then I don't see him again for

1148
01:20:36.359 --> 01:20:40.279
years, and then he was in
a movie called One False Move. Do

1149
01:20:40.319 --> 01:20:42.920
you ever see One False Move?
Oh? Yeah, that was huge in

1150
01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:46.279
the indie scene. Yeah right.
He plays a guy named named Wes,

1151
01:20:46.560 --> 01:20:50.920
a sheriff named West. So I
write the script. When I wrote that,

1152
01:20:51.199 --> 01:20:56.119
you were telling about to change his
script earlier. The original script,

1153
01:20:56.359 --> 01:21:00.279
the sheriff is a guy and his
name is West. West Stanley completely based

1154
01:21:00.560 --> 01:21:04.399
on that sheriff because I'd love that
character and I want to see another movie

1155
01:21:04.479 --> 01:21:09.600
with him, so I wrote him
into my script. Then by some miracle,

1156
01:21:09.800 --> 01:21:15.680
Bill Paxon ends up in the Last
Supper and he's perfect as that because

1157
01:21:15.720 --> 01:21:19.159
he was shooting Apollo thirteen at the
time, so he had the you know,

1158
01:21:19.319 --> 01:21:24.960
the crew cut thing. And he
comes up to me and he says,

1159
01:21:25.680 --> 01:21:28.000
you know, I'm introduced to the
writer. He doesn't remember that this

1160
01:21:28.119 --> 01:21:30.520
whole thanksgiven thing. He goes,
hey, man, before anything, I

1161
01:21:30.640 --> 01:21:32.640
got to ask you a question.
I read the whole script. And by

1162
01:21:32.680 --> 01:21:36.880
the way, by this time,
the sheriff is a woman played by Nora,

1163
01:21:38.279 --> 01:21:41.359
and he goes, I read the
script. The sheriff was the sheriff

1164
01:21:41.479 --> 01:21:44.880
supposed to be a man, and
I go, yeah, and he goes,

1165
01:21:45.119 --> 01:21:47.640
it's me, right, it's me. It's Wes, and I go,

1166
01:21:47.880 --> 01:21:50.439
yes, it is. And then
I told him, like, you

1167
01:21:50.479 --> 01:21:54.039
know, we're in this thing together. And he's a great guy. He

1168
01:21:54.239 --> 01:21:58.239
it's so sad. He they were
doing like a twentieth anniversary screening of The

1169
01:21:58.319 --> 01:22:03.000
Last Supper at the Film Festival and
it was in November. No, it

1170
01:22:03.119 --> 01:22:06.680
was at the end of October,
and he was gonna come. And then

1171
01:22:06.680 --> 01:22:10.680
I got an email like the night
before, Dan Man, so sorry,

1172
01:22:10.760 --> 01:22:15.039
buddy, can't make it. But
we had a mutual friend, my friend

1173
01:22:15.119 --> 01:22:16.960
Kevin Roth who lived in oh Hi, who lived next door to Bill,

1174
01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:19.239
and he goes, hey, but
man, when you come back to La

1175
01:22:19.399 --> 01:22:24.880
let's let's all get together. And
then he passed away like a month later.

1176
01:22:25.279 --> 01:22:27.560
But he was a great oh.
And then I remember once I ran

1177
01:22:27.640 --> 01:22:31.399
into Courtney Vance in line getting into
Dodgers Stadium and he was there with his

1178
01:22:31.560 --> 01:22:36.720
kids and Angela Bassett and Courney,
and Angela asked if they could but in

1179
01:22:36.840 --> 01:22:43.239
line and I'm like, your Angela
Bassett, why are you inn't there a

1180
01:22:43.399 --> 01:22:45.800
VIPs not wearing you could go?
But the greatest story, and I hope

1181
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:49.039
I get this right, is the
Ron Pearlman story. This is crazy.

1182
01:22:49.680 --> 01:22:56.479
It's ninth it's two thousand and one. Then Proud, it's like four in

1183
01:22:56.560 --> 01:23:00.520
the morning. I am in.
I don't know if you're been a prog,

1184
01:23:00.600 --> 01:23:03.520
but I'm in like this. A
lot of the nightclubs are like in

1185
01:23:03.640 --> 01:23:08.760
the basement because the city's so old, like the street just been built on

1186
01:23:08.840 --> 01:23:12.079
top of things, so it's like
four flight sounds. So I'm in this

1187
01:23:12.159 --> 01:23:15.800
weird cavernous like bar, like a
cake. I walk out of the bathroom

1188
01:23:16.359 --> 01:23:20.239
and I bumped into a guy,
a big guy who's wearing I just remember

1189
01:23:20.239 --> 01:23:25.079
it's an FBI hat on it,
and I say excuse me. He says

1190
01:23:25.159 --> 01:23:27.880
excuse me in English, which is
a little strange for Prague. At that

1191
01:23:28.000 --> 01:23:30.760
time. I look up. It's
Ron Perlman. Unbeknown to me, he

1192
01:23:30.880 --> 01:23:34.600
was there shooting Blade two. We've
run into each other. Ron's drunk.

1193
01:23:35.000 --> 01:23:39.359
He looks at me and he goes, don't fucking say a word until I

1194
01:23:39.479 --> 01:23:43.159
tell you ju. I'm like what. He like drags me his big guy

1195
01:23:43.319 --> 01:23:47.439
drags me about the shoulder to this
table. At the table it is I

1196
01:23:47.600 --> 01:23:53.680
recognize it later. It's the cast
of the Johnny Depp Jack the Ripper movie

1197
01:23:54.359 --> 01:23:57.279
from Hell. I now forget I
should look at I forget who all the

1198
01:23:57.319 --> 01:24:00.159
actors were. I think Heather Graham
was sitting at the table and some British

1199
01:24:00.199 --> 01:24:04.079
actors. And I'm telling you this
in real time as it happens. They

1200
01:24:04.680 --> 01:24:10.439
clearly Ron is sitting with these people, and I quickly figure out he just

1201
01:24:10.680 --> 01:24:14.800
left the table and quickly just came
back with me, right, And so

1202
01:24:14.920 --> 01:24:17.920
they're a little confused, and the
Ron, drunk again, points to this

1203
01:24:18.119 --> 01:24:21.359
guy, British guy, and says, tell this guy what you just said

1204
01:24:21.399 --> 01:24:27.319
to me? Oh about the movie? Yes, oh well, I was

1205
01:24:27.359 --> 01:24:30.680
just telling row On here that he
happens to be the star of my favorite

1206
01:24:30.720 --> 01:24:35.239
American film. It's a little independent
film called The Last Supper. And Ron

1207
01:24:35.359 --> 01:24:39.840
said, and then, what did
you say? Oh? Well, I

1208
01:24:39.960 --> 01:24:42.920
was asking Ron, I've always been
confused about the ending of the movie.

1209
01:24:43.520 --> 01:24:47.800
So I was asking Ron, I've
always been curious about what the writer meant

1210
01:24:47.960 --> 01:24:51.079
by the end of the movie.
And Ron says, so, then,

1211
01:24:51.159 --> 01:24:55.119
what did I tell you? Will
you tell me to be right back with

1212
01:24:55.239 --> 01:24:59.279
the answer, And Ron goes,
here's the writer, And what Ron med

1213
01:24:59.479 --> 01:25:01.840
was I'm going to go to the
bathroom right now, take a piss,

1214
01:25:02.000 --> 01:25:05.680
come back and tell you what I
think. And he runs into me in

1215
01:25:05.800 --> 01:25:12.159
the bathroom in Prague at three am
in two thousand and one, Ron Roma,

1216
01:25:12.319 --> 01:25:15.960
lady the gentleman. What a small
world and also just a little bit

1217
01:25:15.079 --> 01:25:19.520
extra thing. So last year these
actually a couple of years ago during COVID,

1218
01:25:20.039 --> 01:25:26.640
these two very talented writer people,
musical theater writer people, came to

1219
01:25:26.760 --> 01:25:30.119
me, Jeremy and Jeff, and
said they had the idea to do The

1220
01:25:30.199 --> 01:25:32.800
Last Supper as a musical. Now, I had held on to the playwrights

1221
01:25:32.800 --> 01:25:35.399
to the Last Supper all this time. And I don't know if you know

1222
01:25:35.520 --> 01:25:39.199
this, but it's been done to
the play around the world. It was

1223
01:25:39.279 --> 01:25:43.439
in Buenos Aires and one best New
Play at the Marta Plata play Festival.

1224
01:25:44.359 --> 01:25:47.000
It's played in the Netherlands, it's
played a couple of times in Australia.

1225
01:25:47.399 --> 01:25:51.640
There were a couple attempts at getting
a London West End production, and these

1226
01:25:51.720 --> 01:25:55.680
guys came to me and said,
we've always thought it should be a musical

1227
01:25:56.199 --> 01:25:59.359
and I always had that idea too, that be musical. And then they

1228
01:26:00.039 --> 01:26:03.199
they wrote up the music and they
did a great job and then we optioned

1229
01:26:03.239 --> 01:26:08.199
it to this big producer and they
paid for last summer, they did a

1230
01:26:08.760 --> 01:26:12.199
two week preview in New Jersey like
workshop production, and it was great.

1231
01:26:12.560 --> 01:26:15.399
And they're currently now working on I
don't know if it's finding a theater or

1232
01:26:15.439 --> 01:26:20.359
fundraising whatever, but soon there will
be the Last Supper Musical and it's pretty

1233
01:26:20.439 --> 01:26:25.239
freaking great. Like I'm it's hard
when you're like the original author and you're

1234
01:26:25.279 --> 01:26:29.000
seeing them taking your stuff, but
they stick very close to what I already

1235
01:26:29.039 --> 01:26:32.520
wrote, and they just wrote some
great songs. So I'll let you know

1236
01:26:32.600 --> 01:26:35.600
when that happens. I'm sure it
was very relevant when it came out,

1237
01:26:35.720 --> 01:26:40.479
and it feels even more relevant today. So hitting while the iron's hot with

1238
01:26:40.600 --> 01:26:44.880
a musical that's great. Yeah.
And also it's fascinating to me is that

1239
01:26:45.560 --> 01:26:46.960
every couple of years people come and
say, oh, we want to do

1240
01:26:47.000 --> 01:26:49.720
the play version. I'm like,
again, I've wrote this stroying the Clinton

1241
01:26:49.760 --> 01:26:54.159
Ears when things were not that bad, and it's just gotten worse, and

1242
01:26:54.359 --> 01:26:57.399
I would always go, oh,
Obama one, no one's gonna want to

1243
01:26:57.439 --> 01:27:00.680
do this anymore. Kumba. Yeah, America's can be more united than ever

1244
01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:04.560
before, and it just gets more
and more divided. We did a production

1245
01:27:04.640 --> 01:27:10.279
in New York off off off Broadway
production, and there was a review in

1246
01:27:10.520 --> 01:27:15.199
Breitbart, remember Breitbart, Oh yeah, said they loved it. So that's

1247
01:27:15.239 --> 01:27:18.640
the other crazy thing there's I've met
all kinds of people. Conservatives love The

1248
01:27:18.760 --> 01:27:24.520
Last Supper because they think they're the
hero, and then liberals love it because

1249
01:27:24.560 --> 01:27:30.840
they think they're the hero. And
Breitbart wrote a preview saying Dan Rosen is

1250
01:27:30.880 --> 01:27:38.560
the next great conservative genius because he've
managed to convince this gay liberal theater company

1251
01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:43.479
in New York to put on this
play that they think makes fun of conservatives,

1252
01:27:43.520 --> 01:27:46.199
but really makes fun of that.
So why did Man's Curve heard that

1253
01:27:46.439 --> 01:27:49.279
that was actually part of your stand
up back? Yeah, it's part of

1254
01:27:49.319 --> 01:27:54.199
my stand up back and sidebar.
There was a film that came out around

1255
01:27:54.239 --> 01:27:58.920
the same time called dead Man on
Campus and same premise, but they did

1256
01:27:59.000 --> 01:28:03.000
it more of a slapstick version.
And I had done that bit on MTV

1257
01:28:03.840 --> 01:28:06.439
and it was a staple part of
my act about oh your roomate kills and

1258
01:28:06.439 --> 01:28:09.960
stuff. You get it four point
er, it's like giving you a license

1259
01:28:10.039 --> 01:28:14.159
to kill jokes. Follow after that, I was in a meeting with producer

1260
01:28:15.039 --> 01:28:17.319
who told me, again, this
is hearsay, but she said, oh,

1261
01:28:17.359 --> 01:28:20.680
I met with the people they wrote
dead Man on campus. They came

1262
01:28:20.760 --> 01:28:23.920
up with the idea in a very
interesting way. And I'm like, oh,

1263
01:28:24.000 --> 01:28:27.800
what was that. And she didn't
know I had written dead Man's Curve.

1264
01:28:28.319 --> 01:28:30.439
She said, oh, they saw
comedian on MTV doing a joke about

1265
01:28:30.479 --> 01:28:33.760
it and that's where they got the
idea. So from that, yeah,

1266
01:28:34.239 --> 01:28:38.279
not great, but then that film, So we were kind of a big

1267
01:28:38.359 --> 01:28:41.760
deal at sun Dance. We were
like on the cover of Variety, and

1268
01:28:42.119 --> 01:28:45.720
unfortunately we had a bunch of infighting
between our French producers because a couple of

1269
01:28:45.720 --> 01:28:50.439
them owned the foreign rights, some
of them the domestic rights, and there's

1270
01:28:50.479 --> 01:28:55.000
just a lot of shady dealings going
back and forth. So we ended up

1271
01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:58.079
with Trimark. And then Trimark was
like, oh, we're going to be

1272
01:28:58.159 --> 01:29:00.479
this big thing. And they had
bought like the about Billy's Hollywood screen Kiss

1273
01:29:00.520 --> 01:29:06.319
and this other I think they bought
the film Cube that sun Dance and they

1274
01:29:06.359 --> 01:29:09.159
were like, oh my god,
this is good. We're going to do

1275
01:29:09.279 --> 01:29:13.600
great. And then we did a
test screening, these test screening that showed

1276
01:29:13.760 --> 01:29:16.079
if you know, if they put
fifteen million into marketing. The movie's going

1277
01:29:16.119 --> 01:29:19.159
to do the same as that movie
Wild Things, So we're gonna make like

1278
01:29:19.279 --> 01:29:23.960
seventy million dollars. That would make
it like one of the most successful and

1279
01:29:24.079 --> 01:29:28.840
have been in films of all time. And then Trimark just went belly up.

1280
01:29:29.159 --> 01:29:35.279
Basically they sold it to Blockbuster and
we were Blockbusters first straight to DVD

1281
01:29:35.640 --> 01:29:40.800
like Premiere. They called it.
I got to be he's passed away.

1282
01:29:40.920 --> 01:29:44.039
Now, this guy Dean Wilson,
who owned block Buff, It was very

1283
01:29:44.159 --> 01:29:46.279
nice and friendly, and he called
me after three weeks and he goes,

1284
01:29:46.319 --> 01:29:51.159
We've made seventeen million dollars renting your
film. And he goes, it's renting

1285
01:29:51.279 --> 01:29:56.960
like a film that would have made
seventy seven million dollars. And then when

1286
01:29:57.000 --> 01:30:00.439
I went to meet with Dean and
have lunch with him, and I was

1287
01:30:00.680 --> 01:30:03.880
working on another film that I was
in development, a new line with a

1288
01:30:03.920 --> 01:30:09.039
guy named Lloyd Segan. Another guy
that passed away unfortune named Chris Brinker this

1289
01:30:09.159 --> 01:30:12.439
little film, Little film History for
you, and we were meeting, and

1290
01:30:12.520 --> 01:30:15.960
also Adam Fogelson, who's now head
of lions Gate, was head of Sticks

1291
01:30:15.359 --> 01:30:17.880
and he loved the movie. He
was doing promotions for it. He was

1292
01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:21.560
really trying to get trimarked to,
like, you know, you got to

1293
01:30:21.640 --> 01:30:26.239
release his film and you have a
deal with paramount or whatever, and we

1294
01:30:26.359 --> 01:30:30.479
were trying to make that happen.
Ultimately it didn't happen, only because USA

1295
01:30:30.600 --> 01:30:34.239
Television would not push back the premiere
dates. They were premiering it. I

1296
01:30:34.359 --> 01:30:38.560
forget when over the summer and we
were trying to get them they could push

1297
01:30:38.600 --> 01:30:41.640
it back by three months. We
get at theatrical release, they refused to

1298
01:30:41.720 --> 01:30:43.880
do it, and I got on
the phone with the head of USA and

1299
01:30:43.920 --> 01:30:46.039
everything, like I was very vocal
about it. But while we're having lent

1300
01:30:46.119 --> 01:30:48.479
with Dean, I said to Dean, I said, hey, I'm going

1301
01:30:48.560 --> 01:30:51.520
to a screening of a friend's movie. Would you like to come? And

1302
01:30:51.640 --> 01:30:55.399
he goes, oh my god.
Yeah. Dean was so you know,

1303
01:30:55.439 --> 01:30:57.880
it was a very wealthy guy or
whatever, but never got to go to

1304
01:30:57.960 --> 01:31:01.279
Hollywood things or whatever. So I
took to a film which he saw and

1305
01:31:01.479 --> 01:31:05.600
liked and ultimately put money behind.
And that film was The Boondock Saints.

1306
01:31:06.039 --> 01:31:11.920
And that's where Boondock Saints got their
distribution. They got bought that night or

1307
01:31:12.039 --> 01:31:15.039
they he saw it that night and
then made the deal soon after. And

1308
01:31:15.119 --> 01:31:18.800
it was interesting because he even said
the Boondock Saints to him was very reminiscent

1309
01:31:18.920 --> 01:31:23.720
of the Last Supper because think about
it, people killing bad people, trying

1310
01:31:23.760 --> 01:31:27.039
to make the world a better place
kind of thing. Soon after I got

1311
01:31:27.199 --> 01:31:30.640
a well, a couple of things
happen. Here's a funny story that I've

1312
01:31:30.680 --> 01:31:33.960
never told anybody. I went to
Sundance without an agent. I had a

1313
01:31:34.039 --> 01:31:36.640
manager, so it was pretty exciting. Well, you go to Sundance,

1314
01:31:36.640 --> 01:31:39.600
you have a movie that does well, and you don't have an agent.

1315
01:31:39.680 --> 01:31:43.439
You get all these free lunches and
dinners and people taking you out or whatever.

1316
01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:46.039
And in fact, one of them
my agent. I did have an

1317
01:31:46.079 --> 01:31:50.680
agent called the Gersh Agency and the
Girsh Agency. My agent had moved to

1318
01:31:50.840 --> 01:31:55.960
New York, so I was kind
of picked up grudgingly by someone else.

1319
01:31:56.399 --> 01:31:58.920
And I had told them I was
going to go make this movie in Baltimore

1320
01:31:58.960 --> 01:32:01.039
Deavan's Curves and they were like,
I don't know why you're doing this.

1321
01:32:01.279 --> 01:32:04.359
It's I don't think it's going to
do anything. And they're like, all

1322
01:32:04.399 --> 01:32:08.760
right, well I'm going to do
it. And then six seven months later

1323
01:32:08.840 --> 01:32:14.239
we premiered the Sundance Film Festival,
and the Guerche agen See called my manager

1324
01:32:14.279 --> 01:32:15.520
and they say, hey, we
want to meet with want to meet with

1325
01:32:15.680 --> 01:32:20.279
Dan to talk about representing them.
She didn't tell them, well, actually

1326
01:32:20.319 --> 01:32:25.399
you currently do represent So we sat
across to them and heard their pitch and

1327
01:32:25.520 --> 01:32:29.840
then my manager said, do you
guys realize Dan is your client already?

1328
01:32:30.239 --> 01:32:32.079
And so that was very embarrassing to
them, but they deserved it. But

1329
01:32:32.239 --> 01:32:35.159
then so a couple of months later, not a couple of months later,

1330
01:32:35.399 --> 01:32:40.560
very soon after this is nineteen ninety
eight. I was in I think it

1331
01:32:40.560 --> 01:32:43.000
was ninety and I might get the
year wrong. I'd met with all these

1332
01:32:43.079 --> 01:32:45.359
different agencies and one of them was
ICN and there was a guy named Nick

1333
01:32:45.479 --> 01:32:47.760
I want to say Nick Stein,
who I think has gone on to like

1334
01:32:48.319 --> 01:32:53.359
produce Academy Award winning films. He
was super smart and I really wanted to

1335
01:32:53.399 --> 01:32:57.399
side with him. And his big
thing was the next big thing's going to

1336
01:32:57.439 --> 01:33:00.960
be scary movies for like the pre
team, And his big idea was,

1337
01:33:01.039 --> 01:33:04.840
we want to go get the Goosebumps
franchise for you, and you're going to

1338
01:33:04.920 --> 01:33:08.800
write the movies and direct them and
stuff, like that, Oh my god,

1339
01:33:08.880 --> 01:33:12.239
sounds great. And then my manager
is like, well, I already

1340
01:33:12.239 --> 01:33:15.199
set up all these meetings with c
A and all these other agencies, and

1341
01:33:15.880 --> 01:33:18.319
you gotta you can't pick anyone because
you'll make me look bad, which is

1342
01:33:18.359 --> 01:33:23.039
not the way manager should work.
But I was too young to do better,

1343
01:33:23.079 --> 01:33:25.279
and I was just like, all
right, well I'll wait. So

1344
01:33:25.520 --> 01:33:30.000
meanwhile, literally the next day,
I go to London to meet with the

1345
01:33:30.079 --> 01:33:33.720
people that bought the film for London. Guy named Hamish Macauby, great guy.

1346
01:33:34.199 --> 01:33:38.680
And while I'm there, I'm in
a bookstore and they see a book

1347
01:33:38.720 --> 01:33:42.439
that had just come out like that
week, not pick no one knew about

1348
01:33:42.479 --> 01:33:45.439
it, hadn't been picked up for
film rights or whatever. And it was

1349
01:33:45.439 --> 01:33:49.079
a little book called Harry Potter and
the Philosopher's Stone. And I read the

1350
01:33:49.159 --> 01:33:53.800
back of it, and I remember
going back to my hotel and calling Julie,

1351
01:33:53.960 --> 01:33:57.520
my manager, and I said,
hey, Julie, I think this

1352
01:33:57.800 --> 01:34:01.119
is what I see him was talking
about. And a reader the back and

1353
01:34:01.319 --> 01:34:05.439
she says to me, Dan,
nobody wants to see a movie about a

1354
01:34:05.520 --> 01:34:10.560
boy wizard, So I let it. Goot. Did it anything ever happened

1355
01:34:10.600 --> 01:34:14.239
in that book. I soon to
remember a story about it an NPR back

1356
01:34:14.319 --> 01:34:17.520
in the nineties, and that's about
it. Yeah, it never began a

1357
01:34:17.560 --> 01:34:20.439
movie or anything. No, and
that's that I'm aware of. So I'm

1358
01:34:20.479 --> 01:34:24.840
not bitter at all. Yeah,
No, I totally understand. Yeah.

1359
01:34:24.920 --> 01:34:28.279
So I did get a two picture
deal from New Line out of it,

1360
01:34:28.800 --> 01:34:30.520
but then all of a sudden,
It's funny, I made like two movies

1361
01:34:30.600 --> 01:34:36.119
in like three years without any studio
or Hollywood help or anything, and then

1362
01:34:36.119 --> 01:34:40.319
all of a sudden, I'm in
Hollywood and I get this two picture deal

1363
01:34:40.359 --> 01:34:43.239
and then I don't make another movie
for ten years. You just get stuck

1364
01:34:43.359 --> 01:34:46.199
in this development hell where you're spending
a year or two working on something and

1365
01:34:46.239 --> 01:34:49.760
then it doesn't get greenlit or drama
happens. I had a lot of drama

1366
01:34:50.039 --> 01:34:54.720
on those some of those projects,
and then like ten years later, I

1367
01:34:54.880 --> 01:34:58.279
end up making this film Freeloaders,
and then that just become that became the

1368
01:34:58.319 --> 01:35:01.560
biggest nightmare ever. Loud story.
That's a whole other podcast. So what

1369
01:35:01.680 --> 01:35:05.840
have you been up too lately?
I worked on a television show for Byron

1370
01:35:05.920 --> 01:35:10.439
Allen called First Family. It was
kind of a kid sitcom with my friend

1371
01:35:10.520 --> 01:35:15.319
Chris Turner Towner that was really fun. And then you know, occasionally sell

1372
01:35:15.399 --> 01:35:18.319
a script here and there. And
then lately I've been doing two main things.

1373
01:35:18.800 --> 01:35:23.640
I now have a writing partner named
Tess Garrison. You might know her

1374
01:35:23.760 --> 01:35:27.920
name. She writes the mystery novels
that Rizzolian Aisles are based on. Oh

1375
01:35:28.000 --> 01:35:30.239
okay, yeah, I love that
show. So we sold a series a

1376
01:35:30.359 --> 01:35:34.680
Lifetime about a year ago that we
got paid, but it didn't go forward.

1377
01:35:35.239 --> 01:35:40.560
And now we're working on a pitch
for another show that seems very promising.

1378
01:35:41.079 --> 01:35:43.720
And then the last five almost five
years, I've been a professor of

1379
01:35:43.800 --> 01:35:48.159
dramatic writing at the Savannah College of
Art and Design here in Atlanta and absolutely

1380
01:35:48.279 --> 01:35:54.439
love it. I've just been working
on screenplays. I just recently won a

1381
01:35:54.560 --> 01:35:59.159
fellowship I just got back from Rome. I won the fellowship to the American

1382
01:35:59.199 --> 01:36:04.359
Academy in Row for a proposal to
write a screenplay about I don't know if

1383
01:36:04.399 --> 01:36:10.039
you know who Bruno Leski is,
but famous architect and a famous rivalry that

1384
01:36:10.279 --> 01:36:14.600
led to the Renaissance. So that's
I'm currently working on that. That's like

1385
01:36:14.680 --> 01:36:18.640
by merchant Ivory scripts that the only
only idea I've ever had where I'm like,

1386
01:36:18.720 --> 01:36:23.000
oh, you could if if everything
went right, you'd get nominated for

1387
01:36:23.039 --> 01:36:28.439
Best Screenplay. You know, it's
about art and artists set in Renaissance times.

1388
01:36:28.600 --> 01:36:31.680
Like it's either Academy Award winning movie
or it doesn't get made. It's

1389
01:36:31.720 --> 01:36:34.279
one of the other. Thank you
so much, mister Rosen. This has

1390
01:36:34.319 --> 01:36:38.319
been so good talking with you.
Oh you're welcome. This has been great.

1391
01:37:09.880 --> 01:37:13.199
All right, we are back and
we are talking about The Last Supper

1392
01:37:13.800 --> 01:37:17.880
and we mentioned a few films that
this movie reminds us of upfront, But

1393
01:37:18.159 --> 01:37:21.960
Rob, I know you that you've
made it this far in the episode without

1394
01:37:23.079 --> 01:37:28.159
talking about Louis Bunwell, So that's
got a change. That's right, because

1395
01:37:28.239 --> 01:37:30.560
it's such a cliche with me.
But you know, as I was rewatching

1396
01:37:30.600 --> 01:37:35.319
it, I was thinking about how
dinner party films because there's a lot of

1397
01:37:35.520 --> 01:37:42.000
either it's just a one set kind
of play, or it's a movie that

1398
01:37:42.760 --> 01:37:46.239
it's set around people getting together to
have dinner, and then that becomes sort

1399
01:37:46.279 --> 01:37:49.840
of you know, comedy airs or
you know, some sort of satire.

1400
01:37:50.279 --> 01:37:55.520
It's all sort of centered around this
kind of ritual of getting together and having

1401
01:37:55.560 --> 01:37:59.800
dinner. And I was thinking about
it how it was used in reference to

1402
01:38:00.119 --> 01:38:04.199
least two of my favorite Bunwell films, Serminini Angel and Discreet Charm with Bourgeoisie

1403
01:38:04.279 --> 01:38:10.239
both have dinner party setups, And
then I was also thinking of another filmmaker

1404
01:38:10.760 --> 01:38:15.960
also made movies in France, Frances
Barber, who seems to be more well

1405
01:38:15.039 --> 01:38:18.840
known for his movies being remade in
the United States than the actual originals over

1406
01:38:18.920 --> 01:38:21.399
here in the US. I don't
know why that is, because I think

1407
01:38:21.439 --> 01:38:26.079
the originals are actually quite good.
But if you're not familiar with him,

1408
01:38:26.079 --> 01:38:30.000
I mean, go look at his
filmography. There's probably about a dozen movies

1409
01:38:30.079 --> 01:38:33.960
that he's either written and directed or
written that became remade in the United States

1410
01:38:34.079 --> 01:38:40.319
as comedies. And his movie The
Dinner Game, which actually played at the

1411
01:38:40.399 --> 01:38:44.239
main when I worked there in late
nineties, was remade into Dinner for Schmucks.

1412
01:38:44.520 --> 01:38:48.880
So that's a whole thing about this
guy who's a businessman and him and

1413
01:38:48.920 --> 01:38:53.560
his friends get together to have these
dinners in which they try to find like

1414
01:38:53.680 --> 01:38:57.199
the most ridiculous person that they can
find to invite them, and kind of

1415
01:38:57.279 --> 01:39:01.960
they humiliate them because they're weird,
and it becomes this you know, learning

1416
01:39:02.439 --> 01:39:08.560
more or lesson for the people who
judge others. So I really liked the

1417
01:39:08.640 --> 01:39:10.760
Dinner Game. I thought the Dinner
Game is really good. I did not

1418
01:39:10.800 --> 01:39:14.960
see Dinner for Schmucks because I figured
why bother because I liked the Verber original.

1419
01:39:15.399 --> 01:39:17.680
Yeah, we talked a little bit
about Verber. We talked about Buddy

1420
01:39:17.760 --> 01:39:23.840
Buddy actually, because he did the
original film that Buddy Buddy was based on.

1421
01:39:24.399 --> 01:39:28.359
And yeah, to your point,
he also wrote The Toy, which

1422
01:39:28.520 --> 01:39:32.600
then became the Richard Pryor film.
He wrote Lakaja Fall, which was then

1423
01:39:32.680 --> 01:39:39.880
remade with Nathan Lane and Robert Williams
in there, of the Bird Cage,

1424
01:39:40.800 --> 01:39:46.279
even that movie, the Three Fugitives
from the late eighties, even Pure Luck.

1425
01:39:46.359 --> 01:39:49.800
I mean, yeah there, It's
amazing to look at this guy's filmography

1426
01:39:49.840 --> 01:39:54.640
and be like, Okay, in
this year he makes the French version and

1427
01:39:54.800 --> 01:39:59.680
then the next year or the American
version comes out. Yeah. I'm just

1428
01:40:00.079 --> 01:40:02.439
completely amazed by the fact of how
many of his movies got remain in the

1429
01:40:02.520 --> 01:40:08.920
United States. I can't think of
another comedic filmmaker from a foreign country whose

1430
01:40:08.920 --> 01:40:12.119
stuff it has basically been redune at
the United States. How many times,

1431
01:40:12.720 --> 01:40:15.079
well even a pain in the ass, which is what Buddy Buddy is based

1432
01:40:15.119 --> 01:40:20.640
off of. That was remade twice, and I think he remade the second

1433
01:40:20.840 --> 01:40:27.199
version and then it was even done
in India as well. So yeah,

1434
01:40:27.319 --> 01:40:31.720
he's he's just basically a fountain of
talent over here and we can just cash

1435
01:40:31.800 --> 01:40:36.359
in on that. But I haven't
seen Dinner for Schmucks or a Dinner Da

1436
01:40:36.439 --> 01:40:41.920
Cone either. I've been wanting to, So with your recommendation, I think

1437
01:40:41.960 --> 01:40:45.000
I will definitely check that out.
It was fun, you know, I

1438
01:40:45.319 --> 01:40:48.119
really appreciate it, and like I
said, it's it's kind of a moral

1439
01:40:48.319 --> 01:40:51.119
kind of like this. It's a
parable Salem. It's you know, it's

1440
01:40:51.159 --> 01:40:57.039
got a good message in there in
certain ways. But it's also interesting because

1441
01:40:57.079 --> 01:41:00.439
I was reading the synopsis between the
two and the differences that there's certain aspects

1442
01:41:00.479 --> 01:41:05.199
in the French film about the character
having a mistress and all of this stuff

1443
01:41:05.239 --> 01:41:08.039
that it's like, well, we're
not going to put that in the American

1444
01:41:08.119 --> 01:41:12.279
movie. And you know, there's
certain there's certain kind of moralistic aspects that

1445
01:41:12.359 --> 01:41:15.560
they've rewritten in. You know,
when it came to one of these some

1446
01:41:15.720 --> 01:41:17.680
of the characters, I'm sure you
could do the same thing if you were

1447
01:41:17.680 --> 01:41:21.600
to go through all of Verber's originals
and put them up against the American remakes

1448
01:41:21.640 --> 01:41:25.960
and look at, you know,
what they decided to change, because well,

1449
01:41:26.000 --> 01:41:31.159
that won't play in Omaha. When
thinking about other dinner party or things

1450
01:41:31.239 --> 01:41:35.760
like that in reference to comedy or
satire, can you think of any any

1451
01:41:35.840 --> 01:41:41.119
other ones offhand? Just this film
had me thinking a little bit of this

1452
01:41:41.439 --> 01:41:45.199
television movie, HBO movie Conspiracy with
Kenneth Brana and Stanley Tucci, about the

1453
01:41:45.720 --> 01:41:53.159
Bonza Conference, the conference where they
decided to commit the Holocaust basically, and

1454
01:41:54.039 --> 01:41:59.279
it's I think it's script is taken
pretty much directly from the real transcripts,

1455
01:41:59.760 --> 01:42:01.760
and you know, it's a bunch
of people sitting around over a nice meal

1456
01:42:01.880 --> 01:42:08.359
and brandy and cigars and just talking
and it's like the biggest crime in human

1457
01:42:08.479 --> 01:42:12.199
history, you know. And I
think like there's something about that juxtaposition between

1458
01:42:12.199 --> 01:42:17.239
the stability of sitting around the dinner
table or a table and having a discussion.

1459
01:42:17.359 --> 01:42:20.720
You know, it's very civil,
We're just talking. Nothing bad can

1460
01:42:20.800 --> 01:42:25.359
come out of this. It's just
a conversation. And then I think the

1461
01:42:25.479 --> 01:42:28.680
flip side of that is, oh, like the worst things can come out

1462
01:42:28.720 --> 01:42:31.560
of that, so it might be
an interesting film to pair with Last Supper,

1463
01:42:31.600 --> 01:42:34.880
even though it's I would say it's
really not a funny movie. I

1464
01:42:35.000 --> 01:42:40.960
was talking about that whole thing about
the tomatoes and the blood and the infection,

1465
01:42:41.359 --> 01:42:45.520
and I forgot that right before Courtney
b Vans takes that shovel to nor

1466
01:42:45.640 --> 01:42:50.680
Dunn's face that he's eating a red
popsicle. I'm wondering if that's just a

1467
01:42:50.800 --> 01:42:56.199
regular popsicle or if that's made out
of that tomato choose as well. And

1468
01:42:56.319 --> 01:43:00.159
I did notice too in that garden. I think it's Cameron d I was

1469
01:43:00.159 --> 01:43:03.399
just trying to plant flowers out there
instead, like trying to reclaim the ground.

1470
01:43:03.600 --> 01:43:08.159
But it's still just all tomatoes by
the end of the film. And

1471
01:43:08.239 --> 01:43:12.479
then even the poster for it is
I thought, originally looking at it that

1472
01:43:12.600 --> 01:43:16.640
it was a flaming heart, but
it's actually a flaming tomato with basically a

1473
01:43:16.760 --> 01:43:20.920
crown of thorns around the tomato.
Yeah, it uses the Catholic imagery of

1474
01:43:21.000 --> 01:43:26.880
the sacred heart that you'll see in
some paintings of our imagery of Jesus.

1475
01:43:27.039 --> 01:43:29.560
Yeah, it's funny. I told
a friend of mine that I would be

1476
01:43:29.640 --> 01:43:31.359
talking about the spielp and they had
never seen it, and I mentioned that

1477
01:43:31.439 --> 01:43:34.279
it was a dark comedy, and
right away they said, oh, is

1478
01:43:34.279 --> 01:43:38.680
there cannibalism in Bold? And at
first I was going to be like no,

1479
01:43:38.800 --> 01:43:40.520
and then I thought about it for
a moment, and I'm like,

1480
01:43:40.560 --> 01:43:44.680
well, they do eat those tomatoes. It's kind of like second degree cannibalism.

1481
01:43:44.800 --> 01:43:47.359
I don't know. Yeah, when
they started planting people in the garden,

1482
01:43:47.520 --> 01:43:53.880
I actually had a real quick vibe
of Motel Hell and just thinking of

1483
01:43:53.960 --> 01:43:57.680
all those people that are planted for
the sausage that you just keep them,

1484
01:43:58.119 --> 01:44:00.960
you know, you cut the vocal
cords, plant them in the ground,

1485
01:44:00.079 --> 01:44:02.680
they put the bags over their heads, and you play music to them.

1486
01:44:03.039 --> 01:44:08.720
I almost thought that they were going
to go to that extreme, especially because

1487
01:44:08.720 --> 01:44:14.279
I don't know how quickly arsenic works. So when Charles Darning starts keeling over,

1488
01:44:14.479 --> 01:44:15.640
I was like, Oh, he's
that dead. He's going to come

1489
01:44:15.720 --> 01:44:20.279
back and scer the shit out of
them and really make them rethink what they're

1490
01:44:20.319 --> 01:44:26.039
doing. But no, they poison
pretty effectively in this movie. Other than,

1491
01:44:26.159 --> 01:44:30.720
like I said, bringing an underage
girl who is very uptight to dinner

1492
01:44:30.319 --> 01:44:34.640
she's not about to drink that poisoned
wine. Arsenic poisoning effects at least one

1493
01:44:34.760 --> 01:44:41.319
hundred forty million people worldwide. This
is due to contaminated drinking water. People

1494
01:44:41.359 --> 01:44:45.159
in fifty countries are exposed to water
that contains potentially dangerous levels of arsenic.

1495
01:44:45.680 --> 01:44:49.800
You can show signs of arsenic poisoning
within thirty minutes of high levels of exposure.

1496
01:44:50.199 --> 01:44:54.359
I think arsenic it usually takes a
couple hours if you have a large

1497
01:44:54.359 --> 01:44:57.479
amount of poison. I don't think
it's quite as instantaneous, but it wouldn't

1498
01:44:57.479 --> 01:45:00.960
be as much of a comedy.
It was like a listic depiction of ar

1499
01:45:00.039 --> 01:45:04.960
snake poisoning. I think it's more
just the you know, it's like chaplain

1500
01:45:05.039 --> 01:45:10.119
in monsieur or like something like that, like if it's more playful that our

1501
01:45:10.159 --> 01:45:12.880
snake and old place like you mentioned. And of course, you know,

1502
01:45:13.000 --> 01:45:15.439
you can just use a little bit
of ar snake and the tea to slowly

1503
01:45:15.880 --> 01:45:19.319
poison your significant other over a protracted
period of time if you really wanted to.

1504
01:45:19.560 --> 01:45:26.279
Not that, I recommended the Young
Poisoner's Handbook over here. The writer

1505
01:45:26.399 --> 01:45:30.239
of this, Dan Rosen, I
didn't realize that I had actually seen another

1506
01:45:30.279 --> 01:45:33.000
one of his films. He also
wrote the film dead Man's Curve, which

1507
01:45:33.359 --> 01:45:38.560
is not the Jan and Dean's story, It is the whole idea of the

1508
01:45:39.319 --> 01:45:44.680
I think it's an urban legend about
if one of your housemates or roommates dies

1509
01:45:44.760 --> 01:45:48.159
in college, that they give you
stree days and it's I don't remember who

1510
01:45:48.239 --> 01:45:51.279
all of us is in there,
but I know for sure that Matthew Lillard

1511
01:45:51.399 --> 01:45:57.560
is in there. I was a
favorite, and I remember watching that because

1512
01:45:57.600 --> 01:46:03.399
they were like two or three movies
that were all based on that same legend.

1513
01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:08.239
So watch that. There was even
a Turkish film. I guess I'm

1514
01:46:08.279 --> 01:46:11.159
obsessed with Turkish films tonight. No, that was Indian, I said earlier,

1515
01:46:11.199 --> 01:46:14.760
But there was a Turkish film that
does that exact same thing and has

1516
01:46:14.800 --> 01:46:17.880
a cameo by Sean Claude van Dam
and I don't remember how that worked out.

1517
01:46:18.760 --> 01:46:24.399
I'm tilting my head like Mike is
mixing up the idea of the kids

1518
01:46:24.439 --> 01:46:28.439
with dead roommate getting all a's with
a movie where kids steal the answers to

1519
01:46:28.479 --> 01:46:31.640
their college entrance exam. This is
called The Exam from two thousand and six

1520
01:46:32.079 --> 01:46:36.800
and does indeed feature a cameo from
Jean Claude van Dam when you started talking

1521
01:46:36.880 --> 01:46:43.199
about dinner and dinner parties. Of
course, my mind immediately went to another

1522
01:46:43.640 --> 01:46:49.239
famous last supper, which is when
Eddie is dead and a coffin basically as

1523
01:46:49.479 --> 01:46:55.319
Rocky and Frankenfurter and all of them
from Rocky Horror Picture Show are eating.

1524
01:46:55.600 --> 01:47:00.720
And there's that great thing from Charles
Gray as the narrator talking about the place

1525
01:47:00.840 --> 01:47:08.279
of food and meals in popular cultures. Food has always played a vital role

1526
01:47:08.359 --> 01:47:13.159
in life's rituals, the breaking of
bread, the last meal of the condemned

1527
01:47:13.239 --> 01:47:17.600
man, and now this meal,
calling this the last supper, having all

1528
01:47:17.640 --> 01:47:24.279
of these biblical names in here,
you know, showing WWJD. Right,

1529
01:47:24.439 --> 01:47:28.640
Like, would Jesus be poisoning these
people? Maybe maybe he's a little bit

1530
01:47:28.640 --> 01:47:31.319
easier for him unless he had,
like I think he Jesus ended up killing

1531
01:47:31.479 --> 01:47:34.439
somebody. I think when he was
younger, right, he had somebody laughed

1532
01:47:34.479 --> 01:47:39.800
at him and he ended up murdering
them. So like he wasn't above doing

1533
01:47:39.920 --> 01:47:45.079
that. Who wasn't expecting a pull
from the Egancy Gospels. Heresy, heresy.

1534
01:47:45.640 --> 01:47:47.880
I only know of that because of
the video isn't it the Danzig video

1535
01:47:47.960 --> 01:47:53.319
where he talks about that. Oh, there's a good video of Danzig showing

1536
01:47:53.439 --> 01:47:56.079
his book collection. He's like,
he's my book collection. He's like,

1537
01:47:56.159 --> 01:47:59.279
shown all this. He goes,
this has a thing about Jesus killing someone

1538
01:47:59.399 --> 01:48:02.640
and all this. Welcome to my
book collection. There's the Lost Books of

1539
01:48:02.720 --> 01:48:06.479
the Bible. Tells you a lot
of stuff not be omitted from a Bible.

1540
01:48:08.399 --> 01:48:12.720
Here we go, infancy. He
told you about Jesus's childhood, stuff

1541
01:48:12.760 --> 01:48:16.600
that I guess most churches wouldn't want
you to know about because doesn't fit in

1542
01:48:16.720 --> 01:48:23.479
with their ideology Christ. And let
me see. There's one passage in here

1543
01:48:23.520 --> 01:48:28.279
where Jesus and a little kid are
playing on the Sabbath and Jesus is making

1544
01:48:28.319 --> 01:48:32.920
these clay statues he's formed come to
life. And the child says it's a

1545
01:48:32.960 --> 01:48:35.279
sabbath, he shouldn't be do that, and blah blah blah blah blah,

1546
01:48:35.279 --> 01:48:40.279
and so anyway, Jesus kills the
kid. Another time, when Lord Jesus

1547
01:48:40.399 --> 01:48:43.439
was coming home in the evening with
Joseph, he met a boy who ran

1548
01:48:43.600 --> 01:48:46.800
so hard against him that he threw
him down, to whom the Lord Jesus

1549
01:48:46.880 --> 01:48:53.199
said, as thou hast thrown me
down social voutfall nor ever rise, and

1550
01:48:53.319 --> 01:48:57.079
at that moment the boy fell down
and died. Do you see Glenn Danzi

1551
01:48:57.239 --> 01:49:01.840
goes shopping and the person just sing
out different items and a glunt Danzi voice

1552
01:49:02.439 --> 01:49:10.399
channel logo. That's good. That's
pretty good. All right, guys,

1553
01:49:10.479 --> 01:49:13.640
let's go ahead and take another break
and play a preview for next week's show.

1554
01:49:16.880 --> 01:49:29.800
Yes, there's a lovely rosy glow
in the valley Indians base. I

1555
01:49:30.000 --> 01:49:33.800
was just looking for your friend oil
rich Indians in space. The facts regarding

1556
01:49:33.800 --> 01:49:39.800
the situation remain the same state the
authorities, lionel I said, Back up,

1557
01:49:40.800 --> 01:49:45.079
the facts regarding the situation remain the
same state authorities. Don't you know

1558
01:49:45.159 --> 01:49:47.399
what that means. I'm proud of
you boys. I'm proud of the job

1559
01:49:47.479 --> 01:49:49.920
that you're doing for your country.
Go with the globe, boys, go

1560
01:49:50.039 --> 01:50:00.439
with the globe. Good gas,
it's bird gas. It's the best you

1561
01:50:00.560 --> 01:50:08.159
might get yourself. Not I'm bird. You know how to puck her up,

1562
01:50:08.239 --> 01:50:12.079
don't you? Huh? Just put
your lips together? What's up?

1563
01:50:12.399 --> 01:50:19.880
Huh? How what's is this gonna
cost? Yeahs back again? Yeah,

1564
01:50:20.840 --> 01:50:27.560
how do you feel about that I
don't feel I'm the executive quite did I

1565
01:50:27.720 --> 01:51:30.039
go for a big crip? I
hate music? That's right. We'll be

1566
01:51:30.119 --> 01:51:32.720
back next week with a look at
a very strange film, Neil Young's Human

1567
01:51:32.840 --> 01:51:36.199
Highway. Until then, I want
to think by co host Martin and Rob.

1568
01:51:36.479 --> 01:51:41.079
So Rob, what has been keeping
you busy lately, sir? In

1569
01:51:41.279 --> 01:51:45.359
the home stretch finishing off this master's
degree and then we'll figure out what we're

1570
01:51:45.359 --> 01:51:48.000
going to do after that. But
it's always nice to come on and get

1571
01:51:48.000 --> 01:51:50.840
a chance to watch a couple of
movies with you and do a couple of

1572
01:51:50.880 --> 01:51:54.760
episodes. I think I'm been more
episodes in the past six months than I

1573
01:51:54.880 --> 01:51:58.720
haven't last few years. Paid off
your debt to society, so I'm allowing

1574
01:51:58.760 --> 01:52:01.199
you back on. Speaking of dinner
parties, you and I need to get

1575
01:52:01.199 --> 01:52:04.359
together and have dinner, so you
know, we'll make sure to bring two

1576
01:52:04.399 --> 01:52:09.840
bottles or it sounds good. And
Martin, what's the latest with you,

1577
01:52:09.960 --> 01:52:13.479
sir? I've been working on a
few articles and things. I have a

1578
01:52:14.079 --> 01:52:18.640
three part series about the cinematic legacy
at King Kong out on tilm eighty nine

1579
01:52:19.359 --> 01:52:24.359
dot UK. I'm on part two
right now, but I think part three

1580
01:52:24.520 --> 01:52:27.159
might be out by the time people
listen to this, so they're welcome to

1581
01:52:27.239 --> 01:52:30.720
to that out Stacy title. One
of the last things she worked on was

1582
01:52:30.800 --> 01:52:35.560
a King Call television show, so
weirdly there might be a connection that comes

1583
01:52:35.680 --> 01:52:41.920
up in the third part. I
also have a series on the Way that's

1584
01:52:42.640 --> 01:52:46.800
about architecture in science fiction, but
really it's more about economics and politics,

1585
01:52:46.920 --> 01:52:51.520
so maybe people will find that interesting
and that should be out on the Pinksmoke

1586
01:52:51.640 --> 01:52:57.960
dot com. I also appear on
various podcasts, Wrong Reel and bunch of

1587
01:52:58.000 --> 01:53:00.920
other places, and best way to
find me is usually on Twitter at movie

1588
01:53:00.960 --> 01:53:03.960
Kessler, where I post all my
updates and stuff like that. There you

1589
01:53:04.039 --> 01:53:08.920
go, trying to inject politics in
the movies and stuff. Again, jeez,

1590
01:53:10.720 --> 01:53:14.279
when people are like, like,
get these politics out of my movies,

1591
01:53:14.319 --> 01:53:16.560
I want them to be entertaining,
and this has got very entertaining politics,

1592
01:53:16.640 --> 01:53:20.159
so it can coexist. It's fine. Well, thank you so much

1593
01:53:20.199 --> 01:53:24.199
guys for being on the show.
Thanks everybody for listening. If you want

1594
01:53:24.239 --> 01:53:26.359
to hear more of me shooting off
my mouth, check out some of the

1595
01:53:26.439 --> 01:53:30.239
other shows I work on. They
are all available at Weirdingwaymedia dot com.

1596
01:53:30.800 --> 01:53:33.239
Thanks especially to our Patreon community.
If you want to join the community,

1597
01:53:33.600 --> 01:53:39.279
visit patreon dot com slash Projection Booth. Every donation we get helps the Projection

1598
01:53:39.319 --> 01:54:09.600
Booth take over the world. Some
coming, no one, there is one

1599
01:54:10.119 --> 01:54:19.399
in the side. Now they got
my time be mind night, wont be

1600
01:54:19.640 --> 01:54:31.600
surprised to be if we mean I
wonder word. He's coming to his mishap

1601
01:54:32.119 --> 01:54:49.560
farm and the read be dose that
heaven riding. I suppose the one shut

1602
01:54:50.600 --> 01:54:57.800
shut and deal with it, and
they shall. I got fine. He's

1603
01:54:57.880 --> 01:55:06.319
a love that far. I should
be around the loves on the top,

1604
01:55:06.399 --> 01:55:33.560
bather, the water, the bar, the bunk, water in the winds

1605
01:55:34.039 --> 01:55:49.840
mind name gave me the things and
say if the breathing the bed symptom happy

1606
01:55:50.520 --> 01:56:08.439
water. And he's only one mind
any days like my mind mind that the

1607
01:56:08.760 --> 01:56:16.680
bore you. And before I will
be mind you, I want the blo

1608
01:56:16.840 --> 01:56:35.600
the word shine only that they shall
get mine tells you bend your under the

1609
01:56:35.800 --> 01:56:47.239
further word, the bother, the
bar, the bunder world, the bunder

1610
01:56:47.319 --> 01:57:03.399
ward, the bother, war,
the mod, the war, the bo

1611
01:57:03.640 --> 01:57:10.560
the water, the feeling calming over
me down yea the bu the wall,

1612
01:57:10.680 --> 01:57:16.000
everything that one. I want to
be down yea about the water home,

1613
01:57:16.840 --> 01:57:23.840
the one, the bo the wall. I'm on John Down, I'm on

1614
01:57:23.920 --> 01:57:30.560
the jong Cow, Yeah, the
bough, the Wall. I'm time time

1615
01:57:30.920 --> 01:57:31.479
back the boar,