I'm Casey Tanner and I'm Camille Lewis, and this is safe word. Safe
word is sex therapy unhinged because instead of being a blank slate that's just here
to support you, we're telling you all the details on our own sex lives,
relationships, identities and more. This isn't sex and it's not therapy,
but we are sex therapists and what you hear today may excite you. Each
week we'd talkle a theme related to sex, relationships, gender and more.
This week we're answering your questions about dom and sub dynamics with a very special
guest. Yeas Harris at Yazz is an Iranian, non binary, bisexual,
PolyAm educator and selet from Toronto, Canada. They are an in house professional
dominant at the Ritual Chamber, where they go by mix airis the non binary
dom. They specialize in psychological play and are most passionate about working with queer
and trance clients. They've hosted a panel of non binary doms through Seven Days
of Domination, hosted a queer dating reality show throughout TV called Dating Unlocked,
and are on the advisory board for the Youth Sexpert Program. And of course
they work full time for Queer Sex Therapy as a social media manager. You
can find them on Instagram at yazz dot the Human, where they are usually
honest and often naked. All stood off by saying this might be the episode
of this season I'm most excited for, because, Yeah, As, you're
the guests that we know best and work with every day, and it's the
expertise you're bringing today is an expertise that we don't really get to benefit from
on the other sides of your work. So I'm super pumped to see this
side of you. I'm a little bit nervous for you to see this side
of me. I feel like I don't get to talk a lot about my
whole other side of my work life, so this will be very interesting talking
to my boss about some of this. But I think this is the whole
point of the work that we do, is talking about sex and destigmatizing and
d shaming, So this whole checks out. I can't wait. Did I
tell you, Camille, when we were hiring a social media manager that the
language I was using before we ever interviewed Yas was that I was looking for
a social media Do you did that language that we were using? I was
like, I really I need somebody to come tell me what to do,
tell me how to do it, but also do it in like a really
soft holding environment. And then Yas came alog and literally is a dom and
social media extraordinarror couldn't have been better. So so social media Yeas is meeting
dom Yaz right here on Safer and today it's the collab that we couldn't have
dreamed up if we tried. I was gonna say, though, half the
time when Casey, when I'm asking Casey certain things to do, half the
time they're saying no. Anyway, So there it is. Well, we
are your bosses, and so let this be known. Anything you don't want
to answer, you do not need to answer. First person asked, I
want to explore power dynamics with my partner, but I have no clue how
to bring this up or begin to negotiate. I also think I might be
a switch help. It's a lot going on in this question, for sure,
and I can totally resonate and relate to the feeling of being so new
and just feeling like there are questions coming at you in every pulsele area of
what this might be. So I think My first question, first and foremost
back to this person, would be why is it that you're fearful to bring
this up to a partner. Is it because you are nervous about what their
own reaction might be or is it your own shame or insecurities that are coming
up that are making you feel nervous about bringing up this kind of conversation.
If you're nervous about what your partner's reaction to this might be, I think
that it's a great opportunity to bring in someone else, like a therapist or
a coach, to help you kind of unpack, because you can't do that
on their behalf. They're having their own reactions to things like That's where it
might be really helpful to ask them to do some of their own work outside
of you, or bring somebody else into the equation. But if it's your
own insecurities, this is also a really good chance to say, Hey,
I really want to talk to you about potentially exploring power dynamics. I'm really
interested in kink, but I'm feeling really nervous and insecure about this conversation and
I'd love some support from you from you, so it's a good opportunity to
kind of like get support from your partner from the get go. But if
you're also nervous about how you get started in developing a power dynamic, I
think that one of the most helpful things to start to determine is what your
interests are. So yes, no or maybe lists are going to be your
best friend. A There's a ton of resources online if you just search kink
yes no, maybe list, b DSM Yes no, maybe list. There
are a ton of educators who have already done a lot of that work for
you. But if you want to create one from scratch on your own,
how is it that you're going to see what kinds of things are out there?
What you can look at the obvious examples, like the kinds of things
that you're seeing coming up in porn or other media, things that you've heard
your friends talking about, things that maybe have desires that have bubbled out of
your own experiences, and then start to lay those out these are things that
I already might be interested in. And remember just at the start, when
you're just discovering what your interests and desires are, you're not locking yourself into
anything. This is you just trying to figure out what you may potentially want
to explore, So giving yourself some freedom to potentially say that you might be
interested in something that doesn't work out at all, that you don't end up
being interested in at all. And then the next step, once you've figured
out what those lists of things that you're interested in are for yourself, sitting
your partner down and comparing your answers. Do you already have things that are
in line that your shared interests are you could totally start to pursue with those,
And then yeah, starting there, I think is a fantastic opportunity to
get started. And I also just want to note for anyone who's super new
that there is a big differentiation between negotiating for a scene versus planning for a
scene. So negotiation is going to include things like what your hard limits are.
Those are things that you're absolutely not interested in. Your soft limits things
that you might likely I don't want to do but maybe somebody can ask you
about in the moment, versus your go aheads the things that are greens.
But your negotiation is also going to include things like setting a safe word,
discussing what a punishment is going to look like if you're incorporating that a punishment
if you're going to incorporate that what your triggers are. Your negotiation is a
collaborative effort, whereas scene planning is what you're dam or whoever is taking charge
of the conversation is going to use to curate a scene after you've done your
negotiation. If that makes sense, I never never knew that difference. That
makes so much sense and so helpful to set the stage in that way.
I love that you brought up just because you say you want to explore something
doesn't mean you're committing to a particular persona a particular approach, because I do
find so often people are like, if I put this out there with my
partner and they do the work to buy into it, and I do that
vulnerable work of asking, and then I don't like it, What is that
mean about me? Have I wasted everybody's time? And it's like, no,
this is this is a process of learning, trial and error, exploration.
All of that is okay totally. I think that it makes the whole
situation a lot less successiful if we go into it thinking that the second something
comes out of our mouth, we are locked into it. So for the
beginning or I don't know. I don't know. I've got, you know,
four or five years of experience within the lifestyle as a lifestyle player but
also as a professional in a dungeon type setting, And there are so many
things that I thought I was going to be interested in that absolutely were nos
for me. But I wouldn't have known that unless I'd verbalized it and given
it a try from the get go. So take the pressure off. You
don't have to have it all figured out right away. You need to have
safety practices and protocol in place. I do not in any way want to
encourage you to just be super wily nearly and take risks and when there's other
people's safety on the line. But when it comes to just not being sure
what it is that you want to do, I think you should totally just
go for it and try. Yeah. I think also I'm wondering if this
person is feeling a lot of pressure to already be an expert of like,
if I'm going to breach this subject, I need to have everything already figured
out rather than being like I might just like pose this as a curiosity and
invite my partner or partners in with me to this discussion rather than already feeling
like you have to have all of the answers. I think that there can
be a lot of pressure when trying to introduce anything new into a relationship,
and I think there's this additional level when you're considering power dynamics totally. I
also want to note that the last part of this question, just kind of
throwing peppered in at the end, is I think I'm a switch, help,
And I think that's a really common experience for people who don't think that
they fit, you know, really evenly on one end of the binary,
and the binary exists everywhere. But I'm not a dumb dumb I'm not a
sub. These feel like more tangible. I think I have a really clear
idea of what's expected of me if I exist on one end of these extremes.
But if I'm a switch, what does that mean? What do I
do? And I'm a switch myself, a very proud switch, and I
just want to mention that there are a lot of different context in which your
switchiness can kind of present itself. You can be a switch with one partner.
You can be submissive with one partner and dominant with another partner. So
that's you know, actively practicing that switchiness and getting that kind of experience of
both sides. You can also be switchy within a relationship with one singular person,
where there are certain scenes where you explore a more submissive side and other
scenes where you explore more dominant side. And then finally you can actually try
switching within a specific scene with one person. Yeah, so my long term
partner and I, that's one of our favorite things to do where sometimes we'll
just start playing and a scene will naturally arise and then all of a sudden,
one or both of us will look at each other like you want to
just this is where you to switch, And so that can be really fun
too, But there's lots of playfulness can go into all of this. Do
you feel like you've developed that just kind of innately from knowing each other and
anticipating each other's needs or as their language that helps you all frame That definitely
makes it so much easier when you're navigating that with someone that you already know,
because I can read their body language and I can see you and they're
not super into something. And I also don't feel shy at all being like
oo babes like isn't working for me anymore, like I'm not aroused, where
I probably wouldn't use that kind of like blatant language with somebody that I'm playing
with for the first time, saying oh I'm not into that, Let's try
something else. I'd be a lot more delicate, a lot more fearful to
be that honest about my feelings. But because we have such a long standing
relationship, I really will just say it straight up for how it is,
based on how I'm feeling in the moment, or again read their body language,
and I'll literally just say, hey, how do you feel about me?
You know, I can just say how do you feel about me?
Switching into mommy mode, whereas a moment ago they were topping me, or
they had a more like caregiver type persona and I was the submissive. And
other times I'll just take on a physical action like putting my tit into my
partner's mouth and saying suck on it and see how they react and if they
if they take it and they begin to suckle, then I just assume at
that point that the mode now the rules have probably changed, makes total sense.
I love it. I love a physical sort of sign Yeah, you
also brought up shame when you were talking about this, and I wondered if
in your work with folks who are maybe new to this, if you notice
any different patterns in the type of shame that people who are totally new and
are wanting to try dominance have and totally new want to have try submissiveness or
are switchy have, Like, do you notice any particular flavors of shame that
show up that change depending on the thing that somebody's interested in exploring one hundred
percent, there are definitely like different categories or archetypes that I could classify people
under based on the kink or the power dynamic role that they want to participate
in. So with fellow dons other people who want to top and this is
an experience that I have most definitely had myself. Was a lot of shame
for feeling desire to want to inflict harm on another person and automatically equating being
a sadist with being an abuser, which blatantly is not the case. But
I personally felt really, really, really conflicted about why I wanted to dominate
someone, why I was so interested in this, and I kind of bypassed
my shame, not by properly working through it, but by ignoring my actual
desires. And so when I first stepped into the dungeon and began domming professionally
for the first time, I was one hundred percent certain that the only type
of dominance I would be interested in would be sensual dominance, where I was
only going to be very gentle. I was almost exclusively going to take on
more of a nurturing role. And then I realized that I was actually only
able to access that type of dominance with a very particular clientele, specifically with
queer clients or trans clients. It was very easy to find that style of
dominance, but for other folks it didn't come naturally to me at all.
And then I was confronted again, I really am more of a sadist.
I want to do this, this and this. This doesn't make me a
bad person. I'm not hurting anybody. This is a consensual activity that is
taking place between adults, and so it's okay if I want to do this,
so long as there are protocols in place in case I make a mistake,
because sometimes I do, or if somebody gets hurt. What am I
going to do. On the other end of it, folks who are really
interested in submission. I find that, honestly, regardless of gender, a
lot of people feel really shameful about it because it feels anti feminist to them
or go against their political views and values. And to that, I'd say,
and Casey and Camille, I know that both of you have spoken about
this before. Fantasy does not have to equal what you want in real life.
And I would apply that to kink as well. Just because I in
reality want these kinds of activities and things done to me within this role play
fantasy setting does not mean that I want these things to happen to me in
real life. And so and from Switches, I'd say that the shame that
comes up that I've experienced as people just feeling like they're too complicated or feeling
like they're too greedy for wanting to engage in so many different types of things.
And to that, I say, I am the epitome of greed because
I live at the intersections of in between in every facet of my existence.
I'm bisexual, I'm non binary, I'm polyamorous, I'm a switch, I'm
mixed race. Like I am literally just taken up space wherever I can,
So that doesn't mean that everybody has to deal with me. But I'm not
gonna try and force myself into a box for somebody else's comfort. No way,
oh way, O I know a word. I wish the mics could
pick up our head knots because Camilla and I were like little bobble heads,
were like yes, yes, yes, let's take a break to hear from
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description below or in the safe Word Instagram link tree. Okay, maybe another
listener question. Since we've taken over with our own KIO, now let's go
into the next question, which says, I know there must be more than
one way to be dominant, but I can't figure out what they are.
How do I figure out what kind of dominant I am? Great question.
I want to preface answering this question by saying, please try not to get
too stuck in finding a label, because, on the one hand, finding
a label can be really helpful in the sense that it gives you language for
your own understanding and also language to be able to effectively communicate with a potential
partner or play partner what it is that your interests are. If I were
to say I'm a sadistic dominant and I were to communicate that to someone else,
that's really helpful because I'm assuming that they have a shared understanding of what
that means. But even in that case, these terms change so often in
and are so expansive that even with having some kind of label to describe what
it is that you're into, I still think that you should have some kind
of like debrief conversation to find a shared definition of what that means. Otherwise
you're operating under the assumption that you both know what you're talking about, when
chances are you actually are not on the same page. But if you can't
find a label that fully encompasses what your dominant style or submissive style is,
that's okay because you can combine any of these. But let's start by talking
about different dawnmark types. So one of my favorite BDSM educators, her name
is Evilupine. She's an incredible YouTube channel, so so smart, and in
one of her videos, she kind of breaks down different categories of dominance and
she breaks them down as the following dominance who are service focused, which would
be folks who are really interested in the pleasure of their submissive. They're really
wanting to provide things in service of the submissive pleasure and enjoyment, but they
are still dominant because they are the ones providing them with that experience. The
second category would be action focused folks who are dominant because they have an interest
in the act of flogging, the act of caning. They're really fascinated by
when an implement comes into contact with somebody's body, So that could be your
style. There's also reaction focused. I can't remember what episode of safe word,
it was, but it was really interesting. Y'all were talking about what
happens when someone's main objective for play is for somebody else's pleasure, and kind
of how things get kind of muddy when you lose touch with your own desire.
But not to say that's what this is necessarily, but when you're domining
in order to see how somebody reacts, and then finally suffering focused. One
guess from y'all what you think my main interest is there more than not?
Yes, just a suffering focus. But so if we were to look at
those main categories, we can find so many different additional terms that would fall
under these. So caregiver mommy daddy type that could potentially go under any of
those main categories that we spoke about, depending on what the intentionality is behind
it. But for the most part, when I picture a caregiver mommy daddy
type situation as an dom archetype, I think of someone who's very gentle or
nurturing, wants the best for their bottom, for their submissive, that kind
of thing. There's also the brat tamer archetype, a pet trainer, the
service domb. But then it's also you can look at the quality at which
you're domming. Are you sensual, gentle, strict sadistic? Disciplinary? See
how many layers of the onion there can be, Like, there's a lot.
And then if we were to look on the other side of it,
if we were looking at submissive archetypes, you could be a pet princess,
a little a brat, a prey, a service submissive, And you can
find so much information about each of those things. And then, like I
said, you can make your own so long as you're in honest communication with
whoever it is that you're playing with, what it is that you mean,
or what it is that you're looking for. When you say that those are
the things that you're interested in as an archetype, then I think you're good
to go. Try not to get too caught up in finding a label.
I've never taken so many notes for a podcast, like I'm really learning right
now, like you identify with any of these casey, Yeah, I was
going to ask what were you writing down? Oh no, I mean I'm
just writing literally everything you said is what I wrote down because I need to
process all of this. I don't really identify as a dumb. I think
if anything I'm like switchy, leaning a little bit submissive. I don't think
I'm any of these. I don't think I'm any of these. Okay,
Camille, what about that's my answer? I think same, I'm like bookending
the first one and the first one that you mentioned is that also sometimes referred
to as a pleasure domb yes, okay, and then the suffering one,
the reactionary one, and the action one. Yes. How about how about
an easier question when you are or if you've been in a situation where you've
been dominant, which I know that you have been because you did text me
asking me for advice, so I do know it happened. I did.
When you were approaching that scene, what kind of dom era? Yeah?
Were you trying to embody? I think maybe the reactionary? Okay, while
you were doing things to see what your partner's reaction would be. What kind
of reaction would have turned you on the most to see um maybe like or
maybe like here, I'm like very into like the auditory feedback, so like
a lot of like moaning, would it felt good? Or like I think
also just like maybe like a slight little like wincing or a little bit of
like apprehension with like an I roll, like a back of the head I
roll, and pleasure combo of those things. Okay, So in that I
hear that you're interested in your partner's pleasure, but that you also wanted to
see them struggle a little bit. Yeah, so you were trying to assert
maybe your power through giving them certain things that you knew would be enjoyable,
or withholding it from them. Yes, yes, definitely that makes sense.
It's so generous of you to workshop this with us. Yes, it's so
funny, Like I live in a bubble a lot of the time, where
it's so helpful to have to explain things and in this way and to kind
of like force myself to see things in simpler terms because I feel like I'm
just in this world constantly trying to navigate between, you know, different powers.
Specifically because I'm constantly planning out scenes with my clients, I'm constantly thinking
about what kind of sex I want to be having with my partner play partners,
and so it's so interesting to me to see how much amazing sex people
are having outside of this realm and that there is really so much pleasure to
be had with sex and connection that can be within the realm of DSM and
also outside. There's just so much for everyone. Well said, I love
that this person wants to know. How do I uncouple being dominant from masculinity
and being submissive from femininity. This is another big source of shame. I
think when people assume that being dominant is going to look a certain way,
and when they don't feel like they're able to embody what it is that they're
assuming dominance is supposed to look like, they feel like they're unfit for that
kind of role. And then on the vice versa. I think that the
most helpful thing in my process of uncoupling these things have been a starting to
write down what it is that I think that masculinity is, and then what
it is that I think that dominance is. And Okay, yeah, society
has shown me that a lot of these things are the same or interchangeable,
but not in its healthiest form. These are just assumed roles that we've been
asked to take. And so if I were to start to look at dominance
and I were to list out things like in control or knows best or is
very patient or whatever qualities of dominance that I think are interesting, even when
sometimes the things that you're listing out feel like they're in opposition to one another.
One of the most helpful things that I've found decoupling masculinity from dominance has
been listing out what I think are dominant qualities and really asking myself if I
think that that's attached to gender in any way, and what does masculinity really
mean anyway? So if we were to remove masculinity entirety, entirely, remove
femininity entirely, and just look at what is dominance and what is submission,
I think that that idea is so perfect, Like that exercise that you talked
about of kind of like writing it down these two lists and literally physically having
this cathartic experience of decoupling them and being like, does this actually signify masculinity?
Because some of the things you talked about patients, caretaking, anticipation,
I don't necessarily associate that with masculinity. So I think that that's a really
wonderful practice, and I can see myself like integrating that into my experiences.
So I'm here for it. It'd be cool too for somebody to sort of
sit with, like, Okay, what is what is my authentic gender expression,
and what is my authentic leaning as it relates to dominance, switchiness and
submissiveness, And how can I map one of them onto the other. So,
if my gender expression is you know, androgynous leaning fem and I know
that I'm you know, dominant, what happens when I map those two things
onto each other? What roles come to like, what statements might come to
mind? What scenes might arise from that? Like a sort of wonder if
you take, like whatever your authentic gender expression is, leave previous definitions of
masculinatan family behind, how can you use that to actually allow like a really
euphoric dynamic to emerge for yourself? Totally? So, our next question says,
I struggle with getting into a dom or subheadspace mostly because I lack confidence
and feel imposter syndrome. How do I get better? This imposter syndrome is
so real for so many of us in so many facets of our life,
and so it's only understandable that it's going to come up in our sex lives
as well, especially if we're trying something so new like incorporating power dynamics or
anything. I think that the most helpful thing that you can do is start
to develop some kind of character. And so I'm super into role play.
And one of the main reasons I'm super into rule play is because it's given
me permission to act in a certain way that maybe Yaz myself would feel really
nervous about. But this, you know, dommy top persona, my work
persona goes by mix airis that mix Arras doesn't feel nervous about. And so
when I've started to develop the kinds of qualities that mix Arras has, one
of their main things is that they're confident, and I don't have to worry
about whether or not yas themselves. It's actually confident because I'm going to step
into fully embodying this role. And so one of the things that has been
really amazing in kind of like actually actualizing that is ritualizing the process having an
outfit, laying out your outfit, feeling the material. I'm a big slut
for leather, so leather now is one of my main rituals in terms of
like getting into the headspace, listening to the leather, smelling the leather,
feeling the leather on my body. I feel this like dominant persona is starting
to bubble up inside of me, certain mantras that you say to yourself in
the mirror. I know y'all are big into mantras and affirmations, so that
can be super super helpful too, And of course on the other side of
as well, if you are more submissive leaning. But yeah, developing a
character persona is super helpful. But also not feeling like you have to sit
in this fear or this insecurity alone. I think that it's actually really powerful
to speak whatever it is that you're feeling nervous about allowed to your partner.
And I think there's this un fair expectation that, let's say, for example,
hypothetically you're feeling really nervous about being dominant, that if you bring up
that fear to your partner that you're supposed to be dominating that, then they're
going to think that you absolutely don't have it in you at all. As
if dominance is supposed to be this thing that is like inherent within you,
that you're supposed to come out of the womb knowing how to perform in that
way. Well, I hate to break it to you. If you were
socialized as a woman, chances are you did not come out the womb because
the second you were out into the world, everything around you was telling you
that you should not behave in that way. So you're being socialized in a
way that does not prime you or teach you how to embody that kind of
archetype. So it is something that I think is learned. People who just
say I'm naturally dominant, shut the hell up, No you're not. You
were given permission to take up a certain amount of space, your voice was
listened to for majority of your life. You were told that what you had
to say was important and that you were allowed to be big. So in
saying that I think that it is something that can be learned, I don't
want that to be misconstrued as a way to say that you can convince somebody
else to take on a rule that they don't feel comfortable taking on. So
I can say, yeah, I feel really nervous about being dominant, and
I think I need to take a course or a workshop or sit with myself
and develop my confidence. But if I do not feel like that is an
interest of mine at all and I don't want to do it, my partner
can't say, oh, well, yeah, it's said on a podcast that
you could learn how to do it. If somebody doesn't want to do it
and they're not interested, it's not going to happen. But it is a
practiced skill, and you can also develop your confidence by the actual skill building
elements that are involved in Kinkin BDSM, I got a lot more confident as
a dom when I properly learned how to can someone, when I properly learned
how to use saran wrap and mummify someone, When I learned the different ways
that I could fuck somebody with a strap on, the different paces and the
different dirty talk phrases that I like. It is a practice, and you
get more confident by practicing it and getting feedback and making mistakes. I love
that. I also it was like very when you talked about like developing a
person. I was like, oh, yeah, like Sasha fears the Beyonce,
But like, like I imagine that that feels really helpful, And I
feel like as the therapist part of me is like yeah, it's like parts
work, like thinking about the different parts of you that come alive in these
different spaces and how to highlight and care for those parts, like identifying what
textures feel good to you and ritualizing it. I'm big INTI virtuals. So
I love that. I love the therapist, and you're making this related to
parts work. It makes so much sense. I just really like that.
I also think, you know, regardless of what side of misogyny you were
raised on, no matter what way you were socialized, I feel like none
of it actually sets anybody up for real dominance. Right Like, even if
you were socialized as a man whatever that necessarily means, that doesn't make you
naturally a good domb either, right. In fact, it might it might
mean you have a lot of unlearning to do before you're ready to relearn what
this actually looks like. So to your point, yeahs, it's like who
is who is ready for this one? And that's what you just said is
so related to how Camille kind of wrapped up that activity that we just talked
about in when you're going through that process of uncoupling, if you were socialized
to believe that you are prepared to be dominant, realizing that a lot of
the qualities that you thought were dominant are actually not at all, or at
least not an expression of it in a way that anybody else wants to engage
with, or that feels good for you or for anybody else, and so
that whole process, Yeah, could be a lot of unlearning for sure.
Okay, next question, I really want to be submissive in bed, but
my partner doesn't feel ready. Is it okay to see a professional DOM?
And can I bring my partner to a session too? I love that this
person is considering hiring a sex worker to help them, because we can be
totally a helpful bunch. I'd say yes, it is okay to see a
professional DOM, so long as there is honesty with your partner about what it
is that you are trying to do. So for example, I have one
client who comes to see me and their partner fully knows that they are coming
into session to see me. But I also have other clients whose partners do
not know. And again, it's not really in my place to decide whether
or not that's okay. But if I'm speaking openly about this, I generally
think that honesty is the best policy. But you're dominant or whatever sex worker
you're seeing is actually never going to ask you. Do you have a partner?
Does your partner know that you're doing this? We don't care, It's
none of our business. Where they're to provide you with a service and we
are interested in your well being your safety, So whatever choice you make there
is up to you. But the second part of the question about whether or
not you could bring your partner with you, more likely than not, yes,
you'll just have to specify that in the booking form that you are speaking
to your dom through or whatever threat you're in communication with. Some of my
favorite sessions have been with couples, either that being folks who are interested in
developing some kind of BDSM or kinky type dynamic between them, but feel really
unsure and shy about how to do it, so they just like a professional
to help them. But it's also been a really cool way for clients to
come in and learn what their interests are and then to bring that back to
their clients. Because let's say you're feeling really not super confident in your own
ability, but then also your partner's ability, it can feel like a kind
of dangerous situation, especially if some of your kinks are a little bit further
on the spectrum of potentially dangerous, if you're interested in asphyxiation or certain types
of bondage, like I definitely don't think that you and your partner should just
be risk in it and rolling with it, like either hire someone to teach
the two of you how to do it, or experience it for the first
time with a dom to see whether or not this is something that you're actually
interested in that then you and your partner partners would want to put more time
and effort into developing and honing in that skill. But the joy that I
have witnessed from couples, and I've seen more than couples, I've seen polycueles.
I've seen all sorts of different figurations of partnerships and folks coming in to
see me, And honestly, the more the merrier. The best sessions that
I've ever had are with groups of people who are hiring multiple doms, so
they'll be like my fun so they'll be like three doms and like a couple,
and I'll tell you are absolutely fucked. If you've hired that many doms,
you're just beginning. It sounds like my dream too, really lovely experience,
and I think this is also a good opportunity for me to mention all
of the different reasons why somebody might be interested in kink and b DSM.
So let's say you and your partner are in a romantic relationship, but for
you, you realize that you're super into kink and BDSM, or there's something
that's interesting you but it doesn't feel sexual to you. You don't necessarily want
that to be something that you're exploring with your partner, and it's something that
you'd like to go see a professional four as a form of grounding, or
something that you do just to have some kind of release, or you're really
interested in the art form of something, or all the other various reasons why
somebody might be interested in something. There are tons of asexual folks who are
interested in kink, and for some of them it might not be sexual at
all. But even if you're not a sexual or a romantic and you're somewhere
else on the sexuality spectrum, sex doesn't have to be the main motivating reason
why you would choose to pursue any of this. So to me, it
makes a lot of sense if for some folks they wouldn't want to explore this
with their partner, and it would be something they'd want to explore outside of
their partnership. Potentially, mal and I saw a dumb gosh, it must
be like a year ago now, and it was I cannot recommend it enough
and I'll tell you we need to have a million more sessions because this session,
it was not even sexual. We literally sat there, the three of
us and just talked. We just talked about how we felt going into it,
our anxieties about it. And so I don't know, I don't know
what typical is, but I can say like, it probably can look as
sexual or non sexual as you want it to be. I imagine yea as
you probably have had a number of conversations with people who maybe weren't totally ready
to dive into action, but wanted to explore. And the terminology that we
use in our space is a consultation. So there are lots of people who
will come in just to see what our vibe like between us, whether or
not they think that will be a good fit, or really they want to
sit there and say, I am so nervous, I have no idea what
to do, And I say okay, and I put my little notebook away
and I just look at them and I say, how can we figure this
out together? What do you want to do? And sometimes that results in
them booking a session. Sometimes that results in them booking a session ends up
just turning into another consultation and they just want to talk, and you know,
there are I'm a great conversationalist. I have no problem at all just
sittay down and having a chat with you. But I think it's also a
good good to come into those kinds of sessions remembering that we are also not
trained mental health professionals and so as willing as a lot of folks are.
I mean, sex workers are their own type of superheroes, and they're so
emotionally intelligent and they have to do so much emotional labor all the time.
But it doesn't mean that we're always the right people to be holding onto some
of that information. So just keep in mind that if you are booking a
caultation with someone or a session with a sex worker, a dom full service
sex worker, whoever it is that you're seeing that while it's very helpful for
you to bring forward what your anxieties and insecurities are, that if you start
going deep into your trauma or whatever it is that you want to discuss,
that the provider should hopefully have their boundary set in a way where they can
kindly say thank you so much for telling me that there isn't much that I
can say to that, or I can't actually hold space for that right now,
or I don't think I'm the best person to speak to you about that.
And I hope that you know, in being on the receiving end of
hearing some of that information, that boundary, that feedback, you don't take
it personally and this person doesn't hate you. They're actually protecting you as well
as themselves, and they're just not the best person to hold onto that.
A couple of years ago, I had the opportunity to work with a sex
worker and a client where I was the sex therapist working in conjunction with a
sex worker working with a client, and it was really amazing opportunity. I
think ye as for the client to know, like, Okay, this is
where I go for this part of this work, and this is where I
go for this other part of this work, and so it's amazing. It's
amazing to hear that that's part of the process of sex work, and just
like it's part of the process of therapy. Knowing knowing where your work ins
and where it begins is part of caring for people. Yeah, well,
I can imagine that if you're seeing a therapist who is potentially not king conformed,
that if you start talking to them about your kinks and your desires and
stuff that you're into that hopefully the therapist says the same, Pope, And
so maybe you go see a sex worker or some kind of bedious educator and
kind of draw the line there that you should go and explore that with somebody
else. Yeah. I hope that therapists do more of that. I do
too. I do too, Casey, can we just bring it back real
quick, just for a second, will you tell us more about your session,
which one oh yeah, of course meant yeah, yeah, Oh it
was amazing. I mean, I think it really just lowered both of our
anxiety and we need to go again. Is really the moral of this story.
But I think I talked a little bit about my stubbiness. What I
understand. I know that I'm a little bit braddy. I know that there
are certain forms of dominance that don't arouse me that I don't respond to.
So for example, like if somebody were to call me slut or whore like
I don't like that, that doesn't arouse me. I note aroused a lot
of people doesn't arouse me. So it was helpful to just start to put
language to those things because I think mal exploring her dominant side. I think
she was starting out with some of the shame that the Yasu's described earlier,
what does it mean about me that I want this? And it was so
relieving for her to hear that that dominance doesn't mean I'd like hurting people.
In fact, it was the way that I was asking her to take care
of me. And when she reconceptualized it that way, she was so much
more open to it. I don't think she fully even knew that there were
many options for what dominance looked like. So that opened a lot of doors.
So even within a ninety minut a session, I think it just it
opened a million conversations and lowered our anxiety. And it wasn't therapy, I'll
clarify that. You know, she was very much holding the fact that we
had anxiety. But the questions were not trying to go deep into our past
or deep into trauma, nothing like that. It was it was more like
present focused. How does this relate to the types of negotiations and scenes that
you want to be in acting together? So it's very very cool. Highly
recommend that's so cool to hear, And has it made a big difference for
you in terms of what your exploration is? I mean, like now,
the two of us started at a zero, and I would say we're at
a three now Yes, yeah, progress, I love yes, yes,
and we're moving right along and yeah, it was it was essential. And
we're about to book like ten more sessions. Oh wow, okay, going
from a three to a seven. Maybe hopefully hopefully next season when we have
you on, yes, I'll have more to say. Yeah. I remember
when you like had that appointment. You're like, I, me and Mal
have an appointment with a dom. Gotta go. I was like, work,
work, Like, okay, I don't know if you'll keep this in,
but I do remember. I remember getting an email from Casey maybe like
eight months ago, sent to maybe all the managers or something, being like,
hey, does anyone have any like recommendations for a dom for Mal and
I parentheses not somebody that works here? And in my mind empathy aka me,
you're asking if anyone know any doms that aren't Yeah, I believe it
or not, You're not the only dom that works at TG. But yeah,
I pretty much. Just sorry, there's at least one another one.
I just thought it was so I know it's not a really inappropriate working about
this. I regrets I remembers about that. No, I feel that speaks
to our work environment that we get to create, you know, we get
to define all the things. So I love that, right, right,
I have the resource such a good point. That's such it's like my own
st agmatization, because if we're saying that therapists should be referring out to sex
workers more, there really is no reason that we can't talk about it as
if it's yea a mental health and physical health and spiritual health referral. Yeah,
absolutely, thank you, Thank you for that. Yes, everyone's gonna
want to work with you after this. So how do they do that?
Oh well, if you are located. Um I was going to say in
Toronto, but there's no reason why you can't travel for me. People have
done it in the past. He simply go to the Ritual Chamber dot com
and you can learn more about the dungeon that I work at. You can
peruse through all of the dominance as well as the professional submissive that works at
the space. It is a beautiful beautiful dungeon equipped with a medical room,
a schoolroom, all kinds of sex furniture. It's an amazing space. If
you're interested in looking at more of my sex work base to social media,
you can follow me on Twitter at the non Binary Dom. But if you
just want general sexiness, shenanigans, hearing about polyamory, sex for all the
things that I do, you can follow me on Instagram at yaz dot The
Human Work. Thank you so much, Yea, thank you for being here,
Thank you for having me. I'll be seeing you at work in ten
minutes. This week's safe Word is Porpoise and was given to us by star
Man Thank You. Safe Word is hosted by Casey Tanner and Kemmil Lewis and
is produced by coordinator et Townsend. Our theme song is written and performed by
Emma Jane and Toria Rainey. To support the show, please follow us on
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