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This week we are at the pinnacle
of the best of the best. And

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if you have been following the Earth
Ancients podcast for a few years now,

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you know that we do a culmination
of top names, top speakers, top

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individuals who are the movers and shakers
of all things ancient, all things questioning

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the anomalies of the past, the
history of the past. And today my

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guest is Graham Hancock, and we
just finished our interview and we're covering a

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number of provocative topics, including his
work on ancient apocalypse, what the reaction

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of the scientific community was. We
also get into DMT, the psychedelic drug

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used for exploring consciousness, as well
as other realms. We talk about what

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the previous epoch looked like, what
the Homo sapiens were like, because we

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do know there are Homo sapien sapiens
in the previous epoch. And it's fun

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for me to catch up with Graham
because we are seeing each other at different

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conferences. But he's basically saying,
Cliff, I'm not going to talk with

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you until the end of the year. We do a kind of a culminating

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year for him and we touch base. So today is the best of the

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best with Graham Hancock. Here on
Earth Ancients or Saturday, December sixteenth,

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twenty twenty three. This is Earth
Ancients. I'm your host, Cliff dunning

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Well. Hello, happy holidays,
Welcome to Earth Ancients. Come on in

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and have a chair and let's talk. I've been doing the culminating series now

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for god. I think it's been
at least five or seven years now.

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People like used to beat Randall Carlson, Graham Hancock, Michael Krimo and so

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forth and so on. Every year
it shifts, But I try to keep

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focused and get Graham on the program
because he's a hard one to track down.

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He's very, very busy. He's
traveling all over the place and we

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bump into each other all the time
at different conferences, and he kind of

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knows that we're gonna be speaking towards
the end of the year, and so

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he won't typically sit with me and
do a impromptu interview because he knows we'll

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catch each other at another time.
So today this is what we're doing.

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We're speaking with Graham on a lot
of different topics. Although it's only about

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an hour, we do get into
the depth of making Ancient Apocalypse. I

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had a little bit of a hand
in doing that. So his I mentioned

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this before his producer who was contacting
me wanting to know about people who could

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be on the program here in the
Americas, and I was happy to help,

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and so I was kind of a
consultant, I guess you could say,

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for the program, and it was
my pleasure, of course. And

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we also discuss other areas in this
one hour interview. And you know,

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the whole thing about the ancient past
is that it's interpretation and questionable theories.

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And you know, we're given a
history that for a great deal the periods

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that are discussed, it's guesswork.
It's simply guesswork. And we know this

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when it comes to the Maya,
which is one of my favorite subjects and

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the basis for my research and writing, but also other ancient cultures in the

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Middle East, which is the Egyptians. Because there's no writing, because there's

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no data on these we have archaeologists
and anthropologists guessing along the way, you

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know, and a lot of its
educated guests, and so it's not too

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far off, but a lot of
it is far off. And you'll hear

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in our interview with Graham today.
He also wondering why these academics are so

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upset at his conclusions. And it's
not just Graham. There's you know,

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many people that he represents and highlights
in his works and his writings who are

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also on what is considered an alternate
perspective of history, not necessarily the mainstream

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narrative. And I don't know why
archaeologists get so upset at Graham Hancock's Ancient

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Apocalypse series. They were very threatened. But I believe that Graham gives a

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honest perspective of an alternative look at
the ancient past and another way to look

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at it. And what he says
is something that I've come across a lot,

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is that a lot of the world
is questioning our written history. It

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doesn't feel right. There's a natural
inclination to really question, wait a minute,

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what are you writing about here.
We really find it when it comes

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to indigenous people who look at our
history and go, wait a minute,

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this is not what we are about. This is not our history. This

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is a narrative that is the white
man's point of view. And as I've

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talked about when we talk about the
natives of the Americas, the Maya,

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the toll Tech the Aztec and so
forth and so on. It's completely whitewashed,

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literally whitewashed. And the perspectives we're
getting our dummied down. They're not

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necessarily the stories or the oral traditions, which in many cases are never used.

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And it's wrong, it's not right
at all. So we don't want

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to beat up on anthropologists and archaeologists
because they're having problems of their own with

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what they're putting out there. We
just want to and in this case,

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Graham Hancock wants to offer another narrative. And I think if you begin to

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look at his work, if you
haven't read his books, you should go

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out and get him. And if
you haven't seen Ancient Apocalypse, which is

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on I believe it's free, if
you're a prime member of Amazon, you

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should look at his seven part series. It's fascinating and it's not that deep,

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I mean, and it's easy to
see because there are each episodes like

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thirty or forty five minutes, and
they go quick and they're fascinating to consider.

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So we had a lot to talk
about, and I could sit down

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and talk with Graham for hours and
hours and hours because a lot of his

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work is compelling. I consider earth
ancients to also be a platform for original

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thinking, for also alternative thinking.
And if you've been listening to me for

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a while, you know that although
there is a case to be made for

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ancient aliens in the distant past,
most notably through the indigenous traditions of star

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people and which are aliens, know
that the other side of it, which

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is anything we can't explain what's to
be ancient aliens, is really abhurrent for

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me. It's something that I think
has been taken a little too far.

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You know. It's a great deal
of fun, you know, And this

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is why the entire industry, the
ancient alien industry, is so big,

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because people are like, wow,
are we from the stars? Are we

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from ancient alien? And so on? But I don't want to beat that

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up too much because I kind of
flow with it to some degree. And

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whenever you have guys on the program
like doctor Avy Loeb who are now directing

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our thinking towards probes, ancient probes
affecting the Earth and scanning us for our

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data and also breaking up in our
atmosphere. These probes are breaking up and

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landing in the ocean, and he's
going out and collecting bits and pieces of

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him to see what's going on.
This is a important you know. So

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there is an alien component, but
it's different for me, and I think

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you know that. So today's program
is Earth's Hidden History, and my guest

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today is Graham Hancock. You know
the old saying, I love coffee,

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but coffee doesn't love me. It's
really true. In my case, I

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drink too much coffee. I love
it, though, but I have been

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A lot of people take it with
breakfast. We've got a special program

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code Ancient twenty, you can get
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Also a great product to start the
new year. We've been talking about epochs

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then a number of weeks now.
We've had a number of different guests on

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the program, and it's still a
question about our past, but it's getting

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clearer and clearer. And my guest
today is Graham Hancock. You guys all

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know who he is. Prolific writer, fascinating lecturer and recently the host of

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Netflix Ancient Apocalypse, which was a
seven episode series that came out November of

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last year. I was amazed when
I was looking at the numbers. Twenty

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five million people on the first series
in thirty one country. This is an

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amazing number of people and it shows
you just how interested people are in the

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ancient past. So I want to
welcome Graham. Graham, great to see

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you, Thank you for joining me
today on Earth Ancients. Thank you,

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Cliff, and you're right, I
think there is a huge interest in the

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past, and there's an increasing there's
an increasing disrust distrust of the narrative that

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is spun by mainstream archaeology. Just
as we rightly become becoming suspicious of all

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authority figures, it's good to not
take everything that archaeologists say at face value.

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I'm not saying that there's an archaeological
conspiracy to hide the truth. I

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don't think there is any such thing. But I think that archaeologists get locked

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into their particular perspective and their particular
framework, and it makes it difficult for

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them to see outside the box.
And that's why it's useful that it's possible

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to have some outside the box thinking
put into the mix. As well as

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the dominant role that archaeology plays in
our thinking about the past. I mean,

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archaeologists complain that I was given a
huge platform by Netflix, but I

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don't think we should forget that archaeology
itself has a huge platform. Archaeology dominates

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all teaching in our schools and universities
about prehistory, and it dominates all stories

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on prehistory in the mainstream media.
So nobody can match that level of outreach

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that people are taking in almost from
their early years of childhood all the way

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through their life, Which which which, which archaeology has and I think it's

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I think it's really important that there's
some opposition to that and and and alternative

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narratives that are being offered. I
want to talk about their reaction to your

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Netflix series in a second here,
but I'd like to get a sense after

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writing for years and going through publishers
and dealing with editors of your books and

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that whole headache can be a headache, what was your experience like with a

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a company like Netflix? And and
I mean it must have been hours and

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hours to set up each location,
to decide on what to choose, and

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then bringing it all together in an
edited format. Absolutely, Yeah, it

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was. I I would say that
the experience by and large was extremely positive

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to me. To be clear,
Netflix don't make much programming themselves. The

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programming for Netflix is almost all made
by independent production companies, particularly where it

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comes to documentary programming. And the
independent production company that made my series is

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ITN Productions. That's independent Television News
Productions here in the UK. They're a

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big news organization, but they have
a separate production house that makes documentaries and

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it was they who pitched the series
to Netflix, and eventually we were able

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to go ahead with it. I
found them a top class professional team to

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work with, and I found the
feedback that we got virtually weekly from Netflix

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along the way also very positive and
helpful. There was a sense of everybody

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working together towards a common objective,
and there was very little friction or difficulty

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at all. It was a very
positive experience in every way, and a

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creative experience. You know, my
field, as you rightly say, is

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writing books and making television series is
a different way of telling stories. It's

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a different it's a different form of
creativity. So it was very education for

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me to see a top class director
like Mark Tyley, who's the director of

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our series at Work, and the
way that a really good director works to

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put together factual information in documentary form
so that people can enjoy it and benefit

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from it. It's a really good
form of storytelling. Almost goes back to

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storytelling around the fire. Really yeah, the written word. You know,

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you're you're seeing images and you're and
you're hearing the words. So it's a

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I'm very very fond of it as
a way of communicating the reaction here to

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my group on Facebook was overwhelmingly positive. I don't think I had one of

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the many thousands of people that listen
to this podcast, and I didn't have

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one person that was naysayer. But
I'm curious, did you feel that was

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a positive reaction from the public overall? I mean, the numbers you must

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have been blown away with. Yeah, are millions of people watching this all

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over the world. There was a
massively positive reaction. I mean, I've

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been a minor public figure in my
own writer as an author for thirty plus

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years, but I would say since
anciented Apocalypse, the recognition factor has gone

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up enormously. So I get stopped
in almost every airport, in almost every

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supermarket, on almost every street,
several times a day and asked to take

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a selfie or sign an autograph.
And I really appreciate that. It makes

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me feel good. And you know, I never forget that I owe everything

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to my readers and my viewers,
and it's important. It's important for me

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to give back. So I take
my readers and my viewers extremely seriously,

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and whenever anybody wants to talk to
me, I'm absolutely ready to talk to

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them. I love to share my
time with them, definitely an increase in

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the recognition and very very warm and
very very positive. I've never had people

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stop me in the street and say
nasty things to me. They've always been,

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always been very nice and very positive. I've even been stopped in the

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street by archaeologists. There was a
Swedish archaeologist who stopped me in the street

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here in the city of Bath where
I live in the UK, and she

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said, you're Graham Hancock. You
should know that not every archaeologist takes you

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a lot of us. Yeah,
no, they totally. I have a

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lot of archaeologies friends here who just
thought that the show was wonderful. I

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want to touch on real briefly though, that the National archaeological community here in

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the United States had a conniption and
wrote a very serious letter. I wanted

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just to talk briefly about it,
because it's not a positive point. They

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called you a racist, they called
you every other kind of stupid, a

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verb to describe what you were trying
to do, a threat to their institutions,

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and so on. That must have
just been well, I mean,

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you've had this before, and we
know that you've had the level. Yeah,

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the level was much higher. Yeah, they dial, they really ramped

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up the level of this. I
published that open letter that the Society for

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American Society for American Archaeology wrote to
Netflix. I published it on my website,

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and I also published a detailed refutation
of that letter on my website,

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both both together. So if anybody
wants to see the full text of that

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letter, just go to my blog
page on my website, Grahamhancock dot com

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and you'll find it very quickly.
You'll see the whole letter from the Society

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for American Archaeologists, and you'll see
my response to it. Point by point.

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I mean, it's clearly an exercise
in propaganda, not in any kind

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of straightforward academic criticism that the Society
for American Archaeology was involved in. It's

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propaganda designed to do damage to me, to defame me, and to misrepresent

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me. Thus, for example,
accusing me of encouraging racism and white supremacism

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in a show that doesn't have a
single word to say about race or color

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is an extraordinary thing to do.
It's almost as though they either deliberately misrepresented

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the show or they just didn't watch
the show and they just said, what

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can we say? What can we
say that, we'll turn people off Hancock's

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work. Oh, we'll call him
a racist. We'll call him a white

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supremacist. Not only that, they
also said that the show promoted misogyny and

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anti semitism. None of these issues
are in any way touched upon in the

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series, but they're useful labels if
you want to use propaganda to put somebody

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down, and that's clearly what was
going on here. So shame on them

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as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I thought it was a little over

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reaction to your material. Since you've
been out for it, You're not like

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coming out of nowhere. You've been
established for decades. Yeah, more than

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thirty years. I've been writing and
invest the gating and researching in this in

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this field, and I've I've published
more than a dozen books related to the

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subject. And these are big books. I mean books sometimes running six seven

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hundred pages in length, often with
thousands of footnotes. I tried try my

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best to thoroughly document my sources so
that so that people can can know where

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where I'm coming from. And I
think that I think that the institution of

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archaeology. I will not say any
specific archaeologists, but archaeology as an institution

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reacted to my series much of the
way that that the human body reacts to

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to an infection. They treated me
like some sort of infection of archaeology.

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There and and and that their immune
system rose up to try and strike me

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down in every possible way and and
and utilize me. And it's a pity

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that it has to be like that. I I I actually couldn't do any

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of the work that I do without
the work that archaeologists do. I have

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a lot of for archaeologists, and
I appreciate the groundwork they do. I

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don't think they're engaged in any kind
of conspiracy against me. I think they're

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just very locked in to a particular
mindset, and they honestly believe they're right

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and that I'm wrong, and that
I'm a danger to the narrative they tell

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about the past. And unfortunately,
instead of engaging in positive and worthwhile discussion

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with me, they chose to take
this propaganda route, and I think ultimately

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that will play very badly for them. Yeah. I have a close friend

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who actually leads our meso American tours
named doctor Edwin Barnhardt, who made a

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great statement about two months ago.
He says, we have about one percent,

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less than one percent of our knowledge
about the Maya, and yet we

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write the books on it. And
this is very, very telling, simply

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because any question about the Maya outside
of the Orthodox is pretty much put down.

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Why does orthodoxy have such a problem
with the possibilities of an earlier epoch

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and the development of a high civilization. Yeah, it's I think it's a

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very worrying it's a very worrying situation
that there is such closed mindedness about the

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past, and that archaeology as an
institution has such a conviction that they're right

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and that everybody else is wrong,
and that they're the only people who are

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authorized to speak about the human past. This simply cannot be healthy. The

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human past is the possession of all
of us human beings. It's our shared

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legacy from the past, and we
all have a right to express our points

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of view and tell others what we
think we know and what we've found out

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about the past, and share that
with others. And it's very unhealthy that

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a very small group of individuals,
I mean, I suppose there might be

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perhaps in the United States five or
six thousand archaeologists, and those who are

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particularly active in putting down alternative points
of view, or even less in number,

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probably not more than a few hundred
of them. And it's very it's

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very unfortunate that they should have,
you know, such a dominant voice,

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such a dominant public voice, within
within archaeology. And I don't think they're

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doing archaeology a good service, and
I don't think they're doing humanity a good

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service by doing that. They would
they would do much better by themselves and

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by the rest of us if they
were a little kinder and a little more

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generous in spirit, and a little
more open minded, a little more willing

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to consider that they actually could be
wrong about things, that they could make

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mistakes, because we're all human beings, and we all we all make mistakes,

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and and and and for for for
a discipline to say we are right,

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we know the truth about the past, We absolutely know the truth about

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the past. That's that's really wrong, especially when so little of the world

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has actually been subjected to any kind
of detailed archaeological investigation, and when so

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much of the past has been lost. I mean, consider those five thous

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and Mayan codices that were burnt by
the Spaniards on a huge bonfire. Consider

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what was lost to the human race
in that, in that immolation of knowledge

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from the from the remote past.
How can we possibly say that we know

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everything about the remote past when so
much of it has been deliberately burnt and

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destroyed. How can we say that
we that we as they said in that

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Society for American Archaeology led it to
Netflix. They said, they literally said,

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we know that there was no lost
civilization during the Ice Age. How

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can they possibly know that there's so
much There's so much of the world that

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they haven't excavated. There's almost Yes, a little bit of work has been

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done in the Sahara Desert, but
not very much, not enough to have

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confidence that they know everything. But
the Sahara Desert was green and lush and

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fertile during the Ice Age, and
it should be. If archaeologists are going

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to say they know everything about the
past, they should have done a whole

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lot more work in the Sahara Desert, and they actually have done. Now

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I understand why little archaeology has been
done there. It's very expensive, it's

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very remote, it's very difficult.
But that's fine. But they then should

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not complain to have complete knowledge of
the past, such complete knowledge of the

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past that they can write off any
possibility of a lost Ice Age civilization.

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Same goes for the Sahara deser it's
about nine million square kilometers. By the

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way, same goes for the submerged
continental shelves. We know that sea level

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rose four hundred feet about one hundred
and twenty meters with the ending of the

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Last Ice Age. That led really
the best real estate on Earth in that

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time the coastal lands to be inundated. The continental shelves that are now under

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as much as four hundred feet of
water were at that time above water and

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inhabited by people. And again,
yes, there's been a little bit of

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marine archaeology done, but not enough, not enough at all to say that

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they know for sure that there was
no loss civilization. There's twenty six a

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million square kilometers there that has not
been properly studied. They're wasting too much

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time looking at shipwrecks from the sixteenth
century and spending too little time looking at

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the submerged continental shelves. I'm glad
that some work is now being done.

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The area that is called Doggerland between
Britain and continental Europe has recently been recognized

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as an area that was richuly inhabited
during the Ice Age, and some attention

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is beginning to be paid at that, but we're looking at decades of work

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ahead before archaeologists can be sure about
the past, so they shouldn't claim this

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certainty. The other area I frequently
mentioned in this connection is the Amazon Rainforest,

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and again, yes, there's been
some archaeology done, but far too

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little for them to be certain about
what's going on there. And there's at

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least five million square kilometers of the
Amazon Rainforest still covered by dense canopy,

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rainforest where almost no archaeology has been
done at all, and the little archaeology

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that is being done is already producing
fascinating results. So I think, on

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the basis of all of this,
that it's beholden upon archaeologists to stand back

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a little bit and to have less
pride and less arrogance in their own knowledge,

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less certainty in their own knowledge of
the past, and to be willing

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to consider alternative points of view,
or at least to engage with alternative points

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of view without mounting ridiculous ad hominem
attacks designed to smear those who they see

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as their opponents, and that's what
they did in my case. They attempted

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to smear my name because they considered
consider me, I suppose to be a

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threat to their narrative. You're too
popular. You're too popular, Graham as

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what it is. Well, thank
you, But there's too much narrative control

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in our society by different by different
organizations, different institutions, different companies.

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There's too much of this going on. As a species, we need to

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learn to think for ourselves. And
if we're going to think for ourselves,

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we need to have access to a
wide range of information. And this is

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why I think researchers who are taking
an alternative view of the past are playing

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a very useful and helpful role.
Talk a little bit about some of the

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prehistoric I'm going to call that the
term for discoveries. You you brought up

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the Amazon. This the soil,
the tree preta. This is this is

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a brilliant soil that is so vital
that it can practically grow anything. Talk

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a bit about that well. Terra
preta. It's also known as Amazonian Dark

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earth Ade is an extraordinary invention of
human beings in the Amazon. And this

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invention took place more than eight thousand
years ago. We don't know how much

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more could go back ten, twelve, fifteen thousand years We're not certain yet,

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but it's at least eight thousand years
old, and it was deliberately.

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The studies have now made it absolutely
leave no doubt that this is a man

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made deliberately the constructed soil which was
designed to open up areas of fertility within

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the Amazon rainforest. Soils by themselves
are not particularly fertile for growing crops and

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so on on. And that's why
the burning down of the Amazon rainforest to

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create cattle ranches and soyerban farms isn't
a brilliant idea because because because those those

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ranches and farms will only be viable
for a few decades and then they will

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cease to be viable. What the
ancient Amazonian peoples did with the creation of

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Terra Prator was to create areas of
fertility within the Amazon where crops could be

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grown. And we now know,
and again this is very recent knowledge,

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we now know that the Amazon was
not simply a pristine rainforest inhabited by you

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know, simple hunter gatherers. These
were not simple people at all. These

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were people who had expert knowledge of
the plants and the potential of the Amazon,

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and knew what they could do by
creating terra preative. They made it

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possible for the Amazon to host populations
of millions. This is something that was

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just inconceivable to archaeologists a few decades
ago, but it can't be disputed anymore.

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The remains of enormous cities have been
found in the Amazon, cities that

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were thriving until the time of the
Spanish conquest. And it wasn't actually swords

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and guns that led to the ending
of these cities. It was smallpox.

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It was the diseases that the Spaniards
brought in to Latin America that decimated these

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cities, and of course, in
cities in jungles, once the population dies

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out within a century, the whole
city has been overgrown and eaten up by

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the jungle and becomes invisible. And
it's only with modern technology, particularly lied

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on that it's become possible to recognize
these huge centers of habitation that once existed

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in the Amazon, Centers of habitation
that were joined by straight roadways, sometimes

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more than one hundred kilometers in length. There's a whole, massive, untold

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story just waiting to be told in
the in the Amazon. I'd like to

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pay tribute to the work of Marty
Parsinen from the University of Helsinki, and

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I'll say a Ramsey. I'll say
a Ramsey as a Brazilian geographer. They've

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worked together on revealing this beginning,
to reveal this untold story of the Amazon,

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and not only to do with the
discovery that enormous populations lived in the

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Amazon, but also that they created
giant earthworks, geometrical earthworks, enormous circles,

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earthwork circles, a circle enclosing a
square, rectangles, triangles, the

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whole exercises in geometry were being conducted
in the ancient Amazon on a gigantic scale,

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expressing all of the geometrical ideas that
we've been habitually attributing to the Greeks.

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They were found, they were being
explored in the Amazon thousands of years

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before the Greeks. And it's a
sad thing that the destruction of the Amazon

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is the reason why we know that
these things exist, because the clearance of

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the forest revealed the existence of these
They call them geoglyphs now rather similar to

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the Nasca lines in a way.
Aspects of the Nasca lines, but on

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an enormous scale, rather similar to
the henges of Europe, like Avebury Henge

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here in England. You know,
we talk about stonehenge. Actually a henge

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is an earthwork, and if it's
got a stone circle erected inside it,

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then it can be a stonehenge.
But essentially a henge is a gigantic earthwork,

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and the gigantic earthworks that we find
in Europe were preceded by these gigantic

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earthworks in the Amazon. And where
stone was available in the Amazon, and

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it isn't available in every part of
the Amazon, where it was available,

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they did also erect stone circles,
such as at Rego Grande in northern Brazil.

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So there's a big, untold story
just crying out to be told in

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the Amazon right now. And again, the I think it's required of archaeology

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to be more open minded about this, and I want to make the point

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that in this case, it's archaeologists
who are leading the way in revealing the

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truth about the Amazon, and other
archaeologists should be more aware of what they're

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doing, of what these teams are
doing in the Amazon, and more aware

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of what of the implications it has
for our understanding of the past. Whole

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areas of the world have just not
been properly studied by archaeology. And the

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Amazon proves that when archaeology does roll
up its sleeves and begins to study these

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00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:35.360
areas, extraordinary findings are made.
You do make the good point that there

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are actually in America. Before your
most recent book you show observatory stone observatories,

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00:34:42.760 --> 00:34:47.599
and in the Amazon you also show
megalithic structures. Why does the orthodoxy

398
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have such a problem with the diffusion
though they thought that migrating people could come

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00:34:53.360 --> 00:35:00.519
from the different oceans land in the
Americas and perhaps settle and develop culture.

400
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Yeah, I there's there's a real
prejudice against any notion of diffusion in modern

401
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:12.800
archaeology. And and that's weird because
human cultures have been all about diffusion since

402
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:16.039
the beginning of time. Human beings
share ideas constantly. That's how that's how

403
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:21.280
human societies grow and flourish, is
by sharing ideas, by learning from others,

404
00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:23.480
by teaching others all the time.
This is this is this is what

405
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:29.039
happens. And I think the other
thing that's not properly understood is that ideas

406
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:34.960
themselves can be carried by relatively few
people who may not leave They may not

407
00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:37.840
leave an archaeological trace, they may
not leave a DNA trace, but they

408
00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:44.440
leave an idea trace. The same
ideas keep cropping up again and again all

409
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:49.320
around the world, and I often
think that the best explanation for this is

410
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:53.639
that they all share a remote common
ancestor not necessary. It's not necessary to

411
00:35:53.719 --> 00:36:00.119
assume that people went from area A
to Area B carrying these ideas. That

412
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:02.960
people went, for example, from
ancient Egypt to ancient Mexico, or from

413
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:07.119
ancient Mexico to ancient Egypt. It's
possible that both ancient Egypt and ancient Mexico

414
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:13.760
benefited from a legacy from a much
earlier civilization. And this is an idea

415
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:17.360
that I've explored in many of my
books. Right, I want to talk

416
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:21.519
about something that's been coming up more
and more in the last couple of years,

417
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:28.079
and this is what I call temple
technology. And it looks like the

418
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:34.920
previous epoch used natural earth based energy, geomagnetic energy, telluric energy. You

419
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:38.360
talk a little bit about it in
a couple of the Locations in the America

420
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:47.000
before book, but talk a bit
if you have any thought on temples being

421
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:57.320
built over tulleric fields and then the
temple itself being a benefactor for agriculture.

422
00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:00.400
Yeah, well, I think I
think it's a very good idea. I

423
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:04.920
think it's very clear that the sites
of many sacred sites around the world,

424
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:12.159
the locations upon which they stand,
were deliberately chosen because there's something special about

425
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:16.679
those locations. And you will often
find that when a temple falls into disrepair,

426
00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:21.320
another temple is built on top of
it, and when that falls into

427
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:24.239
disrepair, another temple is built on
top of that. The Temple of Horace

428
00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:29.519
at Edfu in Upper Egypt is an
excellent example of this, because the Temple

429
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:34.880
of Horace as we see it today
at Edfu dates from the Ptolemaic period roughly

430
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:39.119
what three two hundred and eighty BC. Relatively recent in other words, But

431
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:43.599
it turns out that it was built
on the foundations of a much older temple,

432
00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:46.159
which in turn was built on the
foundations of an even older temple.

433
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:51.679
And in the texts written on the
walls of the Temple of Horace at Edfu

434
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:55.599
we find an account of this.
We find that they preserved archives from these

435
00:37:55.639 --> 00:38:00.000
former temples, archives that have been
written on animal skin that were falling into

436
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.599
disrepair, and that they copied these
archives onto the walls of the temple that

437
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:07.960
we see today in order to make
them more permanent, to make sure that

438
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:15.039
they would last into the future.
And it's fascinating. Although the current incarnation

439
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:20.239
of the Temple of Horace at Edfrew
is Ptolemaic, form of the Egyptian language

440
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:23.360
that is used in those texts is
way pre Ptolemaic. It's Middle Egyptian.

441
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:30.079
It dates back to two thousand BC
plus, and clearly they are attempting to

442
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:36.280
preserve and pass on to the future
a very ancient message which was ancient even

443
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:44.159
in two thousand BC. We're going
to take a short commercial break to allow

444
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:50.199
our sponsors to identify themselves and we
will be right back with my guest today,

445
00:38:50.880 --> 00:39:29.440
Graham Handcock. My guest today is
Graham Hancock. He is the host

446
00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:35.880
of the Netflix series Ancient Apocalypse,
which looks at a different narrative of Earth's

447
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:42.480
distant past. To come back to
your point, part of the arrogance of

448
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:47.000
our civilization today, it's shared by
the arrogance of archaeology, the notion that

449
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:52.480
somehow we know everything and that the
ancients knew nothing. So you'll find that

450
00:39:52.519 --> 00:40:00.719
most people who define themselves as scientists
are extremely dismissive of an hostil to any

451
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:04.960
notions of earth energies of telluric energy. They don't want to touch it,

452
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:08.480
They don't want to get close to
it. Even in the face of of

453
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:19.360
literature and scientific research that identifies these
on top of pyramids, on geoglyphic landforms

454
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:23.280
and other temple bodies, this stuff
is happening, they don't want to even

455
00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:25.360
go there, like it's I don't
want to They don't want to go there

456
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:30.679
because they they associated in their minds, they've they've used they keep using this

457
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:36.719
term pseudoscience or pseudo archaeology, and
they regard themselves as the only people who've

458
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:39.559
got a right to define what is
or what is not pseudo archaeology. Actually

459
00:40:39.559 --> 00:40:44.639
a lot of what is now current
mainstream archaeology is in my view, pseudo

460
00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:50.719
archaeology. Uh you know. But
but they choose to define any such idea

461
00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:53.760
that that there might be energies in
the Earth which could be harnessed and mobilized

462
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:58.599
for the benefit of humanity as observed. But these ideas are not observed,

463
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.559
and they were not observed to the
a They were ideas that were very central

464
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:05.960
to the thinking of the ancients.
So when we look at the careful sighting

465
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:08.960
of many of these of many of
these temple structures, we do find that

466
00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:14.880
they are at nodes and at the
nexus of earth energies and where and were

467
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:20.639
indeed used. Part of their function
was to promote the development of agriculture.

468
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:23.679
And consider how many places in the
world are referred to as navels of the

469
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:27.440
earth. You know, what's that? What does that mean? What does

470
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:30.079
it mean? A navel of the
earth considered the Temple of Delphi in Greece,

471
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:35.320
and and it's Enfholos, the Temple
of Delphi is an ancient navel of

472
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:39.000
the Earth. Easter Island in the
Pacific in the Pacific Ocean Tepituo Tehenua,

473
00:41:39.079 --> 00:41:45.400
its ancient name means navel of the
earth. Gobekle Tepi means naval. The

474
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:51.360
Hill of the Navel Anchor in Cambodia
was a navel of the Earth. There's

475
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:54.599
so many of these places. It's
almost as though the ancients created a grid

476
00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:00.000
around the world, a kind of
anchoring system, and the key key point

477
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:05.559
points on this network were called navels. Navels of the Earth, and they

478
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:07.559
still bear those names to this day, and they turn out to be the

479
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:14.320
most extraordinary and remarkable places. One
of the most famous stories, and you

480
00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:17.360
know exactly what I'm about to say, is that when Robert Shock and John

481
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:22.599
Anthony West were debating that Mark Lerner, and Lerner goes, there's no evidence,

482
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:28.440
show me the pot shards. Yeah, And I want to ask you

483
00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:35.280
about this because I'm beginning to believe
that these temples in Egypt, the pyramids,

484
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:39.840
and many other buildings were so old
that when they when the Pharaohs or

485
00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:45.960
the pre dynastics came and found them, they repurposed them. I think this

486
00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:51.440
is a huge issue that needs to
be looked at because a lot of these

487
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:55.519
places, temples, sit on earlier
temples, and the Egyptian authorities just don't

488
00:42:55.559 --> 00:43:00.480
want to use new technology. They're
just hesitant. There's a problem for them,

489
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:04.360
you know what I'm talking about.
What do you think about the idea

490
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:12.000
that repurposing is a way to discover
the ancient past. Yeah. I think

491
00:43:12.039 --> 00:43:16.119
that the first thing to realize is
that some of these sacred sites have been

492
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:21.800
sacred for a very, very very
long time. Yes, take the Great

493
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:24.960
Pyramid. For example, we know
that the Great Pyramid is built on top

494
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:32.559
of a natural hill, the original
primeval mound in my view, and that

495
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:37.360
cut down into the body of this
natural hill, which is only about thirty

496
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:44.760
feet high, is a long descending
passageway that goes down to the subterranean chamber

497
00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:49.840
beneath the Great Pyramid. That passageway
is about three hundred feet long, and

498
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:52.159
it slopes, as all the passageways
in the Pyramid itself do, at an

499
00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:55.719
angle of twenty six degrees, which
by the way, is half of the

500
00:43:55.760 --> 00:44:00.920
angle of slope of the exterior of
the Great Pyramid, which is fifty two

501
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:07.719
degrees. None of this is accidental, and you can't walk upright down that

502
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:10.320
passageway or any of the passageways except
the Grand Gallery. You have to you

503
00:44:10.400 --> 00:44:14.119
have to crouch, you have to
kind of eight walk down them. It's

504
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:16.679
quite uncomfortable and quite difficult. And
in the case of getting to the subterranean

505
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:22.360
chamber, that passageway is cut through
bedrock all the way down to the bottom,

506
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:25.920
and then you come into the subterranean
chamber, which itself has a well

507
00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:31.280
in it of some kind of excavation
inside it, and another passageway leading off

508
00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:35.159
it that seems to end. I've
been into that little passageway I've called right

509
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.639
to the end of it, and
it ends in a dead end. But

510
00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:40.760
then it leads you to question what
may be beyond this? What more,

511
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.840
what more passageways and chambers are there
underneath and within the Great Pyramid that we

512
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:52.360
haven't that we haven't found yet.
And almost every every year new discoveries are

513
00:44:52.360 --> 00:44:55.679
being made. I mean, go
back to eighteen seventy two, and nobody

514
00:44:55.760 --> 00:45:01.440
knew that there were two so called
are air shafts running out of the Queen's

515
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:05.119
so called Queen's Chamber. I'm going
to use the word so called because we

516
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.519
have no idea what the ancient Egyptians
called these chambers or what their maker is

517
00:45:08.599 --> 00:45:12.360
called them. We have no idea
at all. But today they're referred to

518
00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:15.920
habitually as the subterranean Chamber, the
Queen's Chamber, and the King's Chamber.

519
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:21.920
Now, it's been known since the
nineteenth century, if not before, that

520
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:25.239
the shafts from the King's Chamber one
exits on the north wall and one exits

521
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:30.039
on the south wall of the King's
Chamber that they cut all the way through

522
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:32.320
the body of the pyramid and emerge
on the outside of the Great Pyramid.

523
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:37.400
And this could be established and was
established simply by rolling a cannon ball down

524
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:42.119
one of these shafts from the outside
of the Great Pyramid. Somebody would climb

525
00:45:42.199 --> 00:45:45.320
up the Great Pyramid, find the
opening to the shaft, put a little

526
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:46.719
cannon ball in there, and roll
it down, and sure enough it would

527
00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:51.280
turn up in the King's chamber.
Wow. This is true both of the

528
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:54.519
southern and the northern shaft. But
nobody knew that there were two similar shafts

529
00:45:54.519 --> 00:46:00.360
in the Queen's chamber, because when
that chamber was complete, they walled over

530
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:07.840
the access to the shafts. And
it was only an enterprising guy called John

531
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:13.480
Weyman Dixon back in eighteen seventy two
who noticed that there were two shafts in

532
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:16.400
the King's Chamber and he thought,
I wonder if there's something like that in

533
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:22.119
the Queen's chamber. And he went
around knocking on the walls and he discovered

534
00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:25.320
two hollow points, one on the
north side, one on the south side.

535
00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:28.960
In those days, people could do
what they liked with a great pyramid.

536
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:30.440
There was a lot of vandalism.
I'm afraid to say, and he

537
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:35.199
just broke it through with a chisel, and he opened up these previously unknown

538
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:39.000
shafts. And for a long time
nobody knew where those shafts led because they

539
00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:43.480
don't exit on the outside of the
pyramid. Then in the early nineteen nineties

540
00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:49.360
we have the first robotic exploration of
those shafts Upwolt, run by Rudolph Gantenbrink.

541
00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:53.039
And what does he discovered That each
shaft is actually blocked after a distance

542
00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:58.880
of about one hundred and seventy feet
by a door and a doorway with two

543
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:04.119
little metal handles. What lay beyond
that? Well, the technology came up

544
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:07.239
with an answer, We're going to
drill through those doors and see what's beyond

545
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:09.920
them. But what they found was
an even bigger puzzle. Three feet beyond

546
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:13.880
the first door is a second door, and they still have to that a

547
00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:16.400
way to get through that one,
you know. So it's like it's like

548
00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:22.400
it's like challenging us. This incredible
monument is challenging us to explore it.

549
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:27.320
It's challenging us not to accept simple
minded theories like this being the tomb of

550
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:30.960
a megalomaniac Pharaoh's challenging us, challenging
us to figure out why they went to

551
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:37.960
all this trouble to create these features
within the Great Pyramid. And almost every

552
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:43.280
year we're finding more and more new
features in the Great Pyramid. That huge

553
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:46.719
space above the Grand Gallery that's been
revealed by remote scanning in the last five

554
00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:51.960
or six years and still not entered, it looks like a second Grand Gallery

555
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:58.320
exists inside the Great Pyramid. Another
passageway lies above the original entrance to the

556
00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:02.119
Great Pyramids. Something is something is
calling upon us. It's saying to us,

557
00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:07.480
explore me, find out about me, Learn about me. Why am

558
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:12.599
I using the angle twenty six degrees
and fifty two degrees? Why do I

559
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:16.239
incorporate the dimensions of the earth in
the height and the base perimeter of the

560
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:20.480
Great Pyramid on a scale of one
to forty three two hundred? Which is

561
00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:22.559
the case? You know? Again, Egyptois know this, but they say,

562
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:25.599
oh, it's just a coincidence.
Do you believe it's a mechanism?

563
00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:30.719
Graham, do you meet? I
mean, Chris Dun for years has been

564
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:35.079
hypothesizing that it's an energy generator of
some kind, but we don't know what.

565
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:37.920
No. Chris Dunn is an excellent
researcher. I've known Chris since the

566
00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:42.719
early nineties, and I've got great
respect for him, and he's done fantastic

567
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:45.880
work. And he's looking at one
particular aspect of the Great Pyramid, which

568
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:50.920
is that it may have been some
kind of mechanical device. But was it

569
00:48:51.519 --> 00:48:54.000
Obama who came up with that,
saying that I can walk and chew gum

570
00:48:54.039 --> 00:49:00.199
at the same time. I think
the Great Pyramid walks and chews gum at

571
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:01.800
the same time. I think it's
got more than one function. I think

572
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:07.199
it's got multiple functions. There are
no doubt in my mind that one of

573
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:10.800
its functions is concerned with a mystery
that all of us are sooner or later

574
00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:15.079
going to confront, and that is
the mystery of death and what happens to

575
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:19.559
us after death. And the effect
that the Great Pyramid has upon human consciousness

576
00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:23.719
are undeniable. I've had the privilege
to be alone in the Great Pyramid in

577
00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:28.599
total darkness, in silence, actually
in the sarcophagus in the King's chamber,

578
00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:32.119
and I almost immediately entered a visionary
state. There's no doubt in my mind

579
00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:37.039
that something about that Pyramid is designed
to enhance and elevate consciousness, but that

580
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:40.039
doesn't mean that it couldn't do other
things as well. So I take Chris

581
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:46.079
Dunn's work very very seriously. I
think it was a multifunctional structure, and

582
00:49:49.480 --> 00:49:53.960
it's likely to sit on an energetic
geomagnetic field of some kind. Yeah,

583
00:49:54.119 --> 00:50:01.119
definitely sits on a navel of the
Earth exactly. Say, I want to

584
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:07.320
talk to you briefly about not only
Rick Strassman's work, but I was at

585
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:12.480
contact in the desert this past summer. You were there speaking as well,

586
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:20.199
and there was a scientist Andrew Guillemour
is doing amazing work with d MT,

587
00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:23.760
and this is something that you're very
much aware of. His idea, though,

588
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:30.159
along with Rick's work, is to
keep someone in a state of mind

589
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:35.880
where they can cross over a barrier
and work with these other beings. He

590
00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:43.360
believes this is possibly how our ancestors
work, bringing across ideas from other dimensions.

591
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:45.679
What do you have to say about
that. I think there's a lot

592
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:50.320
to it. Just as I have
great respect for Chris Dunn, I also

593
00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:55.400
have great respect for Andrew Gallimore and
for Rick Strassman. Andrews and Rick have

594
00:50:55.519 --> 00:51:01.440
been involved in the creation of what
is called d MT X Extended DMT technology.

595
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:07.039
Most people who experience DMT in the
West will experience it by smoking it

596
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:16.159
or vaping it, and it produces
a very rapid onset extraordinary visionary journey into

597
00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:25.559
a completely convincing parallel world. But
it's very fast, starts and ends within

598
00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:30.840
about ten or twelve minutes. And
actually sometimes that can be a relief,

599
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:36.119
because it can be terrifying. It
can be so disturbing, so disorienting to

600
00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:40.639
find yourself suddenly plunged into a completely
other kind of reality that is so different

601
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.719
from our own reality. I found
myself thinking that during a DMT trip,

602
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:49.199
thank God, I'm going to be
out of here in ten minutes. It's

603
00:51:49.239 --> 00:51:52.000
so terrifying. On other times,
I wish to be in there longer because

604
00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:55.960
it's so interesting. And that's what
they've achieved with the DMTX technology, where

605
00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:01.480
they delivered DMT to the volunteers by
rip directly into the vein, and they've

606
00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:06.480
found a way to keep volunteers in
the peak DMPT state for an hour.

607
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:08.119
In fact, they could stay in
it for longer than an hour, but

608
00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:13.360
they haven't attempted to keep people in
that state for longer than an hour yet,

609
00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:17.280
and this is all completely legal done
at Imperial College in London. And

610
00:52:17.320 --> 00:52:23.119
there's a new project starting at the
University of California in San Diego in April

611
00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:30.119
twenty twenty four which is also going
to be given extended DMT to volunteers.

612
00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:34.880
And this time, instead of looking
simply for the therapeutic effects of psychedelics,

613
00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:37.360
which is where the main scientific work
on psychedelics is focused at the moment,

614
00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:45.119
they're looking at the implications for consciousness
of DMT and the implications for our understanding

615
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:49.440
of reality. Why is it that
so many people who experience DMPT, and

616
00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:54.599
particularly so with extended DMT, are
encountering what appeared to the intelligent entities which

617
00:52:54.639 --> 00:53:00.239
communicate with us and which have teachings
for us. Now scientists have had no

618
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:02.000
experience of this just roll their eyes
and say, oh, it's runnish.

619
00:53:02.039 --> 00:53:06.679
But I challenge them to go have
a DMPT journey and see if they still

620
00:53:06.679 --> 00:53:09.440
feel that way. And if they
haven't had a DMPT journey, they really

621
00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:15.000
shouldn't be expressing opinions about it,
because mysterious. What we're finding is that

622
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:22.320
these volunteers are coming back with consistent
reports of encounters with the same entities who

623
00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:28.039
are offering the same teachings and advice
to them. It's as though it's as

624
00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:35.039
though these entities are real, not
just figments of our imagination. And that's

625
00:53:35.079 --> 00:53:39.119
where I think it's very helpful to
consider Rick Strasman's idea that we should view

626
00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:45.639
the brain as a receiver of consciousness
rather than as a manufacturer of consciousness.

627
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:52.559
And if it's a receiver, then
it's receiver wavelength can be tuned and at

628
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:55.760
the moment, and it's necessary for
our survival, the receiver wavelength of our

629
00:53:55.800 --> 00:54:00.159
brains is very much tuned into this
physical reality. It's very much tuned into

630
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:04.840
the laws of physics on planet Earth, and if it wasn't, we wouldn't

631
00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:07.360
be here as a species. We
have to pay attention to how this world

632
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:13.760
functions. But that doesn't mean there
aren't other wavelengths and other realities that we

633
00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:17.280
normally don't have access to, but
which by retuning the receiver wavelength of the

634
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:21.800
brain with d empty, we can
gain access to. And that is one

635
00:54:21.800 --> 00:54:25.960
of the hypotheses that is being tested
at Imperial College and will be tested at

636
00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:34.119
UCSD in twenty twenty four. Is
what is the reality status of these encounters

637
00:54:34.199 --> 00:54:37.599
with these entities, these beings which
have seemed to have teachings to impart to

638
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:42.000
us. Are they just figments of
our brain? And if so, what

639
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:45.639
on earth is going on in our
brains? You know that in itself would

640
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:51.159
be a miracle. If the brains
of multiple different individuals who aren't comparing notes

641
00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:54.679
are having the same experiences and encountering
the same entities, what does that say

642
00:54:55.079 --> 00:55:00.280
about us? How can we explain
that? To me? The best possible

643
00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:06.599
explanation is they are gaining access to
another level of reality which is normally closed

644
00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:09.079
off to us. Maybe there are
some people who don't need the empty to

645
00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:15.480
gain access to that level of reality. Maybe highly advanced yogies can gain access

646
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:20.880
to that level of reality. Maybe
people who do intense deep meditation can gain

647
00:55:20.920 --> 00:55:24.480
access to it. Maybe there's other
ways. But what's necessary for a brief

648
00:55:24.519 --> 00:55:30.320
period is to alter the individual's state
of consciousness to such an extent that the

649
00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:36.119
overwhelming power of this dimension is released
and we gain access to other dimensions.

650
00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:39.960
I think that's the best hypothesis to
explain what's going on here, rather than

651
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:45.440
some kind of brain module which just
weirdly generates images of creatures that are part

652
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:51.239
animal, part human inform and that
have very wise things to say to us

653
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:57.400
and give us moral teachings. You
know, that just doesn't make sense to

654
00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:01.000
me that there's a brain module for
that. The point I make about this

655
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:06.239
is, yes, we do have
brain modules. There is a brain module

656
00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:13.599
for intuitive physics. Everybody has a
way of doing incredibly complicated physics calculations without

657
00:56:13.599 --> 00:56:16.679
even thinking about it in their heads. Just consider somebody throwing a rock at

658
00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:21.920
you and your ability to dodge that
rock or to deflect it with your hand

659
00:56:22.119 --> 00:56:25.639
as it flies towards you. That
is physics. Your brain, without you

660
00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:30.719
thinking about it consciously, is calculating
the strength of the throw, the position

661
00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:34.920
of the thrower, the object that's
being thrown, the speed of the throw,

662
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:37.199
and is so fast that you're able
to often able to get out of

663
00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:45.519
the way. And I can understand
why evolution would favor such a brain module,

664
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:51.079
because you know, if you don't
have rock dodging genes, you are

665
00:56:51.159 --> 00:56:53.760
much less likely to pass your genes
on to the next generation, and if

666
00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:57.719
you do have rock dodging genes,
then you're more likely to pass it.

667
00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:01.079
I get that, but why would
we have a brain module that shows individuals

668
00:57:01.119 --> 00:57:06.679
all out over the world these extraordinary
entities that are part animal, part human

669
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:12.320
inform coupled with amazing geometric patterns,
and the entities communicating with us in a

670
00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:15.960
seemingly telepathic way. What's the survival
value of that? Has? How has

671
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:21.079
that ever happened? Especially when you
consider that the individual who is having those

672
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:25.119
experiences is physically helpless in this realm, because that's the case with DMT,

673
00:57:25.239 --> 00:57:30.480
you're physically helpless while you're under DMT. So there's a deep mystery here,

674
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:34.679
and the work of Andrew Gallimore and
Rick Strassman, and the work at Imperial

675
00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:37.920
College and the work that's coming up
at UCSD I believe are going to be

676
00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:39.880
shedding a great deal of light on
this mystery in the future. One of

677
00:57:39.880 --> 00:57:44.199
the things that Andrew is doing,
which I thought was pretty amazing, is

678
00:57:44.519 --> 00:57:52.519
selecting individuals who can keep enough consciousness
to be able to use a keyboard and

679
00:57:52.639 --> 00:57:59.159
type in the data in some system. He believes that we could have perhaps

680
00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:07.960
machines, complicated scientific algorithms, and
other data coming through this way, and

681
00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:12.360
it's like a whole different level of
working with the other dimensions. Yeah,

682
00:58:12.519 --> 00:58:19.199
I mean, it seems to me
your feeling that this is perhaps fragmentary bits

683
00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:22.440
of evolution happening to us, where
we're getting data come through and it's like,

684
00:58:22.599 --> 00:58:24.920
Okay, we have a new way
of looking at things, we have

685
00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:31.960
a new model. Yeah. I
think that it's obviously going to be helpful

686
00:58:32.039 --> 00:58:36.440
to the human race in the future. And we've done ourselves no favors by

687
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:43.239
cutting ourselves off from this kind of
communication, as has happened with the most

688
00:58:43.320 --> 00:58:46.639
unfortunate episode called the War on Drugs, which caused so much harm and so

689
00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:52.239
much damage. Much more harm and
damage than any of the drugs caused was

690
00:58:52.280 --> 00:58:55.320
caused by the War on drugs,
which ended up ruining the lives of thousands

691
00:58:55.400 --> 00:59:00.360
and thousands of sovereign adults who should
never have been interfered with by their government

692
00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:05.360
in any way for exploring their own
consciousness. But it's led to a delay

693
00:59:05.960 --> 00:59:10.239
in investigations into these mysteries. And
I'm glad that finally the breaks are coming

694
00:59:10.280 --> 00:59:15.559
off and we're beginning to see projects
being approved where it is possible to do

695
00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:21.800
work that would have been inconceivable forty
or fifty years ago. And it remains

696
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:23.760
to be seeing what we will learn
from this. Let's not forget that Chamans

697
00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:28.800
have been interacting with these other dimensions, if that's what they are, for

698
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:34.039
thousands and thousands of years, and
perhaps we should be more humble and more

699
00:59:34.039 --> 00:59:38.159
willing to learn from the knowledge and
experience of indigenous shamans in cultures like the

700
00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:43.719
Amazon Rainforest. They might have a
lot to teach us about how to manage

701
00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:50.000
these interactions with entities which they construe
as spirits, but which we don't know

702
00:59:50.039 --> 00:59:52.400
what they are, and nobody knows
what they are. We need to investigate

703
00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:57.840
it much more closely and keep our
minds open to all possibilities. Could it

704
00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:00.400
just be our brain on drugs.
Maybe let's keep our minds open to that

705
01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:05.039
possibility too, But let's keep our
minds open to the possibility that these are

706
01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:10.599
real entities at another level of reality
that is willing to communicate with us and

707
01:00:10.639 --> 01:00:16.360
may have vital truths to teach us
wonderful As we conclude, I want to

708
01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:22.400
talk about one of the last programs
that you feature on The Ancient Apocalypse,

709
01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:29.639
and this is this new site,
Carahan Teppi. I've been looking at your

710
01:00:29.719 --> 01:00:35.039
work, but also Hugh Newman's research
on the area, which is pretty spectacular.

711
01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:37.239
Hugh and J. J. Ainsworth
have done some excellent work on Karahan

712
01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:40.960
Tepping. Yeah, I'm wondering.
It seems like, you know, I

713
01:00:42.039 --> 01:00:46.039
keep feeling and I think you've mentioned
this too. Is this a reboot area

714
01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:54.880
where man comes out from the end
of the Ice Age and is struggling and

715
01:00:54.920 --> 01:01:00.920
these are learning centers. There's just
a lot of strangeness about them. There

716
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:02.960
certainly is. Yeah, I think
you put your finger on it. I

717
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:07.440
think it is. It is an
attempt to reboot something that was destroyed during

718
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:15.239
the Ice Age, perhaps not completely
destroyed, a lot of civilization from which

719
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:21.960
there were survivors who passed down knowledge
through the generations and eventually manifested it in

720
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:27.079
sights like Gobeckley Teppe and Karahan Tepee. And then having used those sites to

721
01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:30.159
mobilize the local hunter gatherer populations because
they were all hunter gatherers at the beginning

722
01:01:30.199 --> 01:01:36.159
of go Beckley Teppe, to mobilize
them into activities that we would normally attribute

723
01:01:36.199 --> 01:01:39.280
to a high civilization within a thousand
years. They used these sites to do

724
01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:45.239
that, and then they deliberately buried
these sites like time capsules to hide them

725
01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:51.280
away to ensure that they weren't contaminated
until humanity was ready to understand these sites

726
01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:54.639
again. And well, we're exploring
these sites now. The only question is

727
01:01:54.920 --> 01:02:00.280
are we ready for the message they
have to teach us, for the truths

728
01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:04.039
they have to teach us about our
past? And I'm not sure whether we're

729
01:02:04.079 --> 01:02:08.440
ready. The human race at the
moment is full of terrible leaders, terrible

730
01:02:08.440 --> 01:02:15.079
governments, terrible corporations who are full
of the bullshit and lives and who only

731
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:20.719
seek their own profit and benefit,
and who are even willing to plunge the

732
01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:25.880
world into nuclear war if it suits
their objectives. Is humanity ready for this

733
01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:30.280
next level of message? That remains
to be seen, But it's time we

734
01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:34.199
grew up as a species if we
want to continue as a species on this

735
01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:39.639
beautiful garden of a planet. Amazing
Graham is always a pleasure speaking with you

736
01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:45.000
as we conclude. Give me a
hint if you can, of what the

737
01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:52.039
pre Deluvian people were like. Are
they Homo sapien sapien with a twist?

738
01:02:52.679 --> 01:02:58.360
Are they so focused on the earth
that they are Homo sapien? But they

739
01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:05.239
are more tied in, locked in, plugged in, and able to understand

740
01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:10.840
the ebbs and flows of energetics,
of the planets, of the Solar System,

741
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:15.679
so forth and so on. They're
just a different kind of a human,

742
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:19.960
more, for lack of a better
word, more naturalistic. Yeah.

743
01:03:20.119 --> 01:03:23.559
I think that there's no doubt that
the builders of Gobeckley Teppe were Homo sapien.

744
01:03:23.599 --> 01:03:27.960
Sapiens were anatomically modern humans like us. And that's because we know that

745
01:03:27.960 --> 01:03:30.679
go Beckley Tepe was made around eleven
thousand, six hundred years ago, and

746
01:03:30.719 --> 01:03:37.960
by that time the Neanderthals and the
Denysovans had become extinct. But we should

747
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:45.800
never forget the legacy that anatomically modern
humans owe to species human species like the

748
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:50.840
Neanderthals and like the Denysovans. Fortunately, new research is beginning to reveal that

749
01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:54.079
the Neanderthals were not at all these
shambling brutes that they used to be presented

750
01:03:54.119 --> 01:04:00.599
at, but were themselves symbolic creatures
who created art. Homo sapia and sapiens

751
01:04:00.599 --> 01:04:05.239
were not the first species to make
art. Neanderthals and Denisovans were all.

752
01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:08.800
And then, of course there was
the inter breeding, so that many of

753
01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:15.039
us today carrying Neanderthal and Denysovan genes. So anatomically modern humans are carrying within

754
01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:18.639
them a genetic heritage from earlier human
species, and I believe they're also carrying

755
01:04:18.679 --> 01:04:24.559
a heritage of ideas. I think
when we're looking at the possibility of a

756
01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:28.760
forgotten episode in the human story,
during the ice age of a lost civilization,

757
01:04:29.239 --> 01:04:31.920
we shouldn't look for a civilization like
our own. We shouldn't look for

758
01:04:32.840 --> 01:04:39.079
a civilization that was based entirely on
materialistic concerns, that was based highly on

759
01:04:39.480 --> 01:04:45.239
production and consumption and machines and mechanical
leverage and mechanical advantage. A civilization that

760
01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:49.519
deployed abilities within the human creatures that
have been allowed to lapse by our civilization.

761
01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:55.480
I often get laughed at for talking
about the possibility of telepathy and telekinesis

762
01:04:55.480 --> 01:04:59.400
in ancient civilizations. Actually, I
probably don't devote more than a dozen pages

763
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:02.199
to that possibility in all my books
over the last twenty years. But whenever

764
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:05.800
archaeologists want to attack me, they
take those dozen pages and say, ha

765
01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:10.639
ha, haikinesis and telepathy. Well, no, I don't, but I

766
01:05:10.679 --> 01:05:15.960
am interested in that, and I
do know that human beings do have potential

767
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:20.800
today which we're not realizing the work
of Rupert Sheldrake has been fantastic in showing

768
01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:25.880
that telepathy does exist. Everybody's had
the experience of telephone telepathy. You hear

769
01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:29.000
the phone ring, you know who's
at the other end of the phone,

770
01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:31.360
and it turns out that that's the
person you know. He's done work on

771
01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:35.679
dogs telepathy and dogs dogs know when
their owners are coming home. He did

772
01:05:35.760 --> 01:05:40.800
thorough scientific, randomized experiments where the
owners would come home at different times of

773
01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:44.679
day from different directions that dog would
always know when they were coming home.

774
01:05:44.960 --> 01:05:48.679
There's some sort of communication that isn't
physical, that doesn't involve scent or contact

775
01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:54.480
that's going on here, and so
it's foolish for us to dismiss this possibility

776
01:05:54.559 --> 01:05:57.760
and just roll our eyes at it. Instead, we should be investigating.

777
01:05:57.840 --> 01:06:01.000
So, in summary, I think
that the lost civilization that I've spent the

778
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:08.159
last thirty plus years of my life
trying to understand and explore was a civilization

779
01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:12.679
very different from our own and used
capacities of human potential that we are not

780
01:06:12.840 --> 01:06:18.960
using today, but that nevertheless was
capable of highly technological feats such as very

781
01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:24.840
advanced astronomy, such as knowing the
precise dimensions of the Earth, such as

782
01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:29.679
the ability to map the Earth in
great detail with extremely accurate relative longitudes.

783
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:34.119
These abilities are normally attributed to high
civilizations. There's evidence that they were present

784
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:38.440
during the Ice Age? Who were
they present among? This is what I've

785
01:06:38.480 --> 01:06:42.159
been looking for for so long.
Real fine speaking with you. For those

786
01:06:42.199 --> 01:06:45.239
of you are listening, you can
go to Graham Handcock dot com, I

787
01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:50.840
believe to get your material. My
next question is are you Is your lecture

788
01:06:51.199 --> 01:06:56.440
an event page on that too where
people go and see you. It is.

789
01:06:57.280 --> 01:07:00.360
Whenever I'm doing public lectures, I
put them up on the talks an

790
01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:03.239
events page of the website. I
don't have a blog on the website.

791
01:07:03.239 --> 01:07:06.760
I've been very busy in the last
few months and haven't done too many entries

792
01:07:08.679 --> 01:07:14.039
for the last few months. But
there there's for example, that that open

793
01:07:14.119 --> 01:07:17.159
letter for the Society for American Archaeologists
and my response to it are on my

794
01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:19.559
blog, so I'd encourage people to
take a look at that as well.

795
01:07:19.679 --> 01:07:24.039
All right, Hey, thank you
for joining me. Happy holidays to you

796
01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:27.519
and Santa, and thank you.
Real pleasure having you on the program.

797
01:07:27.639 --> 01:07:29.760
Great to talk to you. Cliff, Happy holidays, to you as well.

798
01:07:29.800 --> 01:07:32.440
Look forward to seeing you in twenty
twenty four. Okay, okay,

799
01:07:39.280 --> 01:07:46.400
If you get a chance to see
Graham Hancock live lecturing or a workshop or

800
01:07:46.440 --> 01:07:53.079
part of a tour, do it
because his slide presentations are excellent, and

801
01:07:54.239 --> 01:08:00.280
they're really over and above what he
presents in his books. A little insight.

802
01:08:00.559 --> 01:08:04.880
When an author writes, he'll submit
a number of photographs that he wants

803
01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:13.159
to use in a chapter, and
it's the editor who will either keep the

804
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:16.319
photo or he'll or she will say
no, we don't have room for it.

805
01:08:17.239 --> 01:08:19.439
And I've run into this, and
I know a lot of other authors

806
01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:24.760
run into this, and you can't
do anything about it because you are under

807
01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:30.159
contract to in some ways submit to
the will of the editors, and a

808
01:08:30.159 --> 01:08:35.399
lot of times it's not the most
positive outcome, and a lot of photographs

809
01:08:35.399 --> 01:08:43.880
and illustrations and images get tossed that
really help make a story. And so

810
01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:48.239
this is why I'm suggesting if you
can but to attend one of his talks

811
01:08:48.399 --> 01:08:56.039
and when he comes to your area. Other solution is to see him in

812
01:08:56.039 --> 01:09:00.840
a streaming format, a live lecture
that's being streamed lot cheaper. For the

813
01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:05.880
most part, the lectures that he
is typically a part of here in Northern

814
01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:10.399
California, here in San Francisco,
I should say, I think the most

815
01:09:10.479 --> 01:09:13.439
we charge is fifty bucks. But
that's a lot for some people, it's

816
01:09:13.479 --> 01:09:16.880
not a lot for other people.
He is a dynamic speaker, he is

817
01:09:17.039 --> 01:09:24.159
a well of information. He is
a unique individual, and I have a

818
01:09:24.199 --> 01:09:29.720
great time speaking with him and getting
his point of view. He's just been

819
01:09:29.880 --> 01:09:33.720
out there for so many years,
decades actually, and I always say this.

820
01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:40.159
When he was traveling to release one
of his earlier books, Fingerprints of

821
01:09:40.199 --> 01:09:44.800
the guid God, I can't I
think it came out in the nineteen nineties.

822
01:09:45.479 --> 01:09:49.199
He came to a bookstore here in
Northern California and Berkeley, and I

823
01:09:49.239 --> 01:09:56.560
think there was maybe thirty people or
something, and it was I was just

824
01:09:56.840 --> 01:10:00.199
spellbound at the whole concept because I've
been you know, I mentioned I've been

825
01:10:00.239 --> 01:10:05.720
questioning history for a long time.
At that point, Fingerprints of the Gods

826
01:10:06.359 --> 01:10:18.880
was basically determining and selecting specific sites
pyramids, temples, geoglyphs and other evidence

827
01:10:18.880 --> 01:10:27.319
from earlier civilizations and kind of calling
them out. And every book since Fingerprints

828
01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:35.000
of the Gods has been a drilling
down into specific continents like America. Before

829
01:10:35.159 --> 01:10:39.640
was all about the Americas, and
I don't think he's done with that.

830
01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:44.840
I think he is still spending more
time in the Americas because you know,

831
01:10:44.920 --> 01:10:49.119
the Amazon, We've had people on
this show who are in and around South

832
01:10:49.159 --> 01:10:54.720
America. South America has just been
scrap it's been you know, barely.

833
01:10:56.319 --> 01:11:00.880
It's just we just scratched the surface
in terms of what is available, what

834
01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:05.720
has been uncovered, and there's some
extremely old civilizations that are coming to light

835
01:11:06.439 --> 01:11:12.680
that are not discussed in Western culture. Now, if you heard what I

836
01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:20.880
asked him regarding the myopic view of
history, in other words, one cited

837
01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:31.000
one focused and eliminating Hindu, Chinese, other countries' historical notions. This is

838
01:11:31.039 --> 01:11:35.600
true, and his explanation was Excellent's
it's like, you know, it's our

839
01:11:35.640 --> 01:11:40.840
way or no way, and the
excuse is to be, well, this

840
01:11:40.920 --> 01:11:45.479
is the dominant culture. The United
States is the dominant country. Now,

841
01:11:45.520 --> 01:11:50.199
we're very wealthy, we have a
powerful military, and we have conquered the

842
01:11:50.199 --> 01:11:55.640
world. Well, that's almost in
the same view as the ancient Romans,

843
01:11:55.720 --> 01:12:02.439
they or other ancient armies and ancient
cultures who conquered other people and then basically

844
01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:08.800
rewrote the history according to them.
I can't say this is one hundred percent

845
01:12:08.920 --> 01:12:15.039
going on, but I do get
a lot of students in anthropology, archaeology,

846
01:12:15.600 --> 01:12:20.600
paleo history sending me, you know, emails like, how dare you

847
01:12:20.600 --> 01:12:25.880
you know have Graham Hancock, how
dare you you know, ask questions of

848
01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:30.760
our history? And it's really sad
when those people pipe up, because it's

849
01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:40.119
like, come on, stretch your
vision beyond your history books. Stretch your

850
01:12:40.199 --> 01:12:47.199
vision beyond the timetable that these books
and documents that you're studying to get your

851
01:12:47.439 --> 01:12:55.079
master's, your PhD or whatever.
Stretch your consciousness beyond this because it's not

852
01:12:55.640 --> 01:13:00.680
correct. You know, we've had
and I mentioned this a lot, and

853
01:13:00.720 --> 01:13:06.479
she's going to be on the show
again, doctor Paulett Steves, the indigenous

854
01:13:06.520 --> 01:13:15.279
anthropologist who is rewriting history. And
she's rewriting it because she is redating these

855
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:21.760
sites in the United States and in
Canada that were once thought to be one

856
01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:28.479
hundred gatherer sites that are you know, fifteen twenty thousand years old, redating

857
01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:33.119
them to seventy five to one hundred
and thirty thousand years old, and it's

858
01:13:33.239 --> 01:13:41.239
just freaking out a lot of established
scientists. They can't, you know,

859
01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:47.479
and it's sad that they can't consider. Now, I'm not talking about everybody,

860
01:13:48.640 --> 01:13:59.000
but where it hits the hardest are
university professors who are getting grants for

861
01:13:59.159 --> 01:14:05.119
research, and if they veer off
the main narrative, they don't get their

862
01:14:05.159 --> 01:14:11.119
money. Even worse, a lot
of these people don't get their PhDs.

863
01:14:11.159 --> 01:14:17.920
If they write a dissertation and it
has anything to do with questionable logic,

864
01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:25.119
they don't get their degree. Now
that's not everybody, and I'm not washing

865
01:14:25.479 --> 01:14:31.520
everybody in the universities in the same
manner, but I'm saying these guys need

866
01:14:31.520 --> 01:14:39.880
to begin looking beyond their education.
And I gotta say this, and we've

867
01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:43.600
had them on a lot, and
I had the pleasure of meeting doctor Ed

868
01:14:43.720 --> 01:14:47.840
Barnhardt when we are in chopis this
is the way to look at things.

869
01:14:48.039 --> 01:14:51.960
Yes, I'm educated, Yes I
have my PhD. Yes I follow a

870
01:14:53.000 --> 01:14:58.760
certain path. But wait a minute, I admit that the people who I

871
01:14:58.800 --> 01:15:05.239
am studying, the Maya of Mexico
and Central America have only been touched upon.

872
01:15:05.800 --> 01:15:14.840
We only have one percent or less
of our knowledge based on thirty ruins

873
01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:17.600
that we have excavated that's not a
hell of a lot to go on,

874
01:15:18.359 --> 01:15:25.199
and so he's very open to the
possibilities of new discoveries. So this is

875
01:15:25.760 --> 01:15:28.359
the way to look at it,
you know. And of course he comes

876
01:15:28.359 --> 01:15:33.399
from one of the most brilliant Mayanists
in archaeologists in the world, Linda Sheeley,

877
01:15:33.399 --> 01:15:42.319
who was started off as a as
an artist and then switched her focus

878
01:15:42.479 --> 01:15:49.680
on Mayan hieroglyphic decipherment, and she
broke a lot of rules, you know.

879
01:15:51.159 --> 01:15:56.119
So that's the way it should be. Yet you get your credential,

880
01:15:56.920 --> 01:16:03.279
you pass your test to get your
degree, and you follow in the footpaths

881
01:16:03.279 --> 01:16:09.600
of the previous generation. But you've
got to break out of it because there's

882
01:16:09.680 --> 01:16:14.560
nothing You're not going to find anything
if you keep on this same path.

883
01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:18.560
And what I say is, and
this is what I'm writing about. If

884
01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:24.920
you can follow the native traditions and
see where that goes, the oral traditions,

885
01:16:25.479 --> 01:16:30.560
you'll find a lot of descriptions of
technology, pyramid science, You'll find

886
01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:39.000
traditions on civic culture, how to
work civically with people, the sciences.

887
01:16:39.600 --> 01:16:45.239
I mean. The Maya that we
view in National Geographic are the last generations

888
01:16:45.279 --> 01:16:50.000
of the Maya the people who built
these big cities. They're very, very

889
01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:57.800
sophisticated, and we do have in
some museums figurines that are addressed with pants,

890
01:16:58.720 --> 01:17:01.760
that have their hair have They're very
they look almost like today if you

891
01:17:02.119 --> 01:17:08.800
if you see some of these figurines, they're dressed very, very conventionally and

892
01:17:08.920 --> 01:17:14.640
not walking around with loincloths, which
is how most Maya figures are are portrayed.

893
01:17:15.560 --> 01:17:21.199
So it's a it's a process,
it's the whole opening to other possibilities

894
01:17:21.720 --> 01:17:30.479
is a process. So anyhow,
I love this whole research and discovery and

895
01:17:30.560 --> 01:17:38.560
the possibilities of discovering the true nature
of ancient people because I think we've had

896
01:17:38.600 --> 01:17:42.399
it. We have it, we
have it backwards, and I think we

897
01:17:42.960 --> 01:17:48.840
view the ancient pass by our sophisticated
current lifestyle with our iPhones and our computer

898
01:17:49.039 --> 01:18:00.359
and our cloud databases and society's norms, which aren't the same as our ancestors.

899
01:18:00.359 --> 01:18:09.520
Our ancestors lived by natural forces,
by geomagnetic energies, temples focused on

900
01:18:10.239 --> 01:18:14.840
agriculture and things like that. So
keep listening. There's gonna be a lot

901
01:18:14.840 --> 01:18:18.640
more. And by the way,
twenty twenty four is shaping up to be

902
01:18:18.800 --> 01:18:24.319
a real fun and brilliant year.
At least the first part. We've got

903
01:18:24.399 --> 01:18:30.800
some really really fun, new new
authors, new voices that are opening our

904
01:18:30.960 --> 01:18:38.399
thinking to the ancient past. All
right, well, that's the best of

905
01:18:38.479 --> 01:18:41.399
the best. That's the tip of
the iceberg. With Graham Hancock. Next

906
01:18:41.399 --> 01:18:45.680
week the guest is going to be
Michael Kremo, author of Forbidden Archaeology,

907
01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:55.720
and we talk a great deal about
the previous epoch and what those individuals were

908
01:18:55.720 --> 01:18:59.159
all about, and we, according
to him, I think Graham said the

909
01:18:59.159 --> 01:19:05.960
same thing. They were Homo sapien
sapiens, and our current biology, our

910
01:19:06.000 --> 01:19:13.399
skeleton, skeleton, our physiology and
so forth and so on has been is

911
01:19:13.439 --> 01:19:17.079
the same, and it's been the
same according to Michael. For I think

912
01:19:17.079 --> 01:19:21.159
he said like fifty million years,
which is pretty amazing. And he'll talk

913
01:19:21.199 --> 01:19:25.119
a great deal about that too,
so it's always fun to have him.

914
01:19:25.399 --> 01:19:30.680
Then we finished the year with Stephen
Schwartz, and he is going to talk

915
01:19:30.720 --> 01:19:38.279
about a series of remote viewing into
the future that he has began to write

916
01:19:38.279 --> 01:19:44.840
about, and we're gonna hear what
the next few years looks like into I

917
01:19:44.840 --> 01:19:47.479
think it's twenty fifty and twenty sixty. He has a project called the twenty

918
01:19:47.560 --> 01:19:57.000
sixty Project where he looks at what
he believes is a new evolution of human

919
01:19:58.279 --> 01:20:06.319
and apparently it's kind of cool.
They are Jean splicing and in these evolved

920
01:20:06.399 --> 01:20:13.800
humans, you can actually evolve your
brain, your physiology, your body,

921
01:20:13.800 --> 01:20:16.039
and so forth and so on.
So a whole different class of humans are

922
01:20:17.399 --> 01:20:20.319
coming up, and we'll talk about
that with him. That's the last show

923
01:20:20.600 --> 01:20:28.119
of the year. That is the
thirtieth. That's December thirtieth, Saturday.

924
01:20:28.199 --> 01:20:31.720
So we got Graham this week,
and then we got Michael Krimo on the

925
01:20:31.720 --> 01:20:38.000
twenty third, and then Stephen Schwartz
on the future of mankind on the thirtieth.

926
01:20:39.239 --> 01:20:42.359
So oh, I also want to
mention we're going to do our annual

927
01:20:43.119 --> 01:20:49.760
panel. We're going to review twenty
twenty three with a panel that includes Reverend

928
01:20:49.840 --> 01:20:56.880
Jim Willis, archaeologist, Jen Dao, author and phil researcher, Matt Lacroix,

929
01:20:57.520 --> 01:21:02.720
and yours truly panel discussion of I
think six to eight of the top

930
01:21:04.359 --> 01:21:12.920
discoveries that happened this year and kind
of review them in a round robin panel

931
01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:17.479
discussion. So that'll be January sixth, twenty twenty four. I can't believe

932
01:21:17.520 --> 01:21:24.479
it. We're almost into the new
year, so us to look forward to

933
01:21:25.079 --> 01:21:29.920
stay tuned Earth Ancients. We do
our best to provide you with the cutting

934
01:21:30.039 --> 01:21:35.800
edge of history and everything in between. So fun. I have a lot

935
01:21:35.800 --> 01:21:41.039
of fun doing it. Hey,
we're into the holidays. That means gift

936
01:21:41.079 --> 01:21:43.840
giving, and you know, it's
fun to give gifts. It's fun to

937
01:21:43.960 --> 01:21:47.760
see people open packages that you've purchased
and the smiles on their faces. But

938
01:21:48.039 --> 01:21:51.840
hey, you need to give yourself
a gift too, And there is the

939
01:21:51.880 --> 01:21:57.439
best gift that you could give yourself, and that is a trip with Earth

940
01:21:57.479 --> 01:22:01.760
Ancients. We're going to be in
Egypt in the end of April into early

941
01:22:01.840 --> 01:22:05.399
May, and then we're gonna be
for the first time, we're gonna be

942
01:22:05.399 --> 01:22:13.159
in Turkey in August. August fourteenth
through twenty third, I believe. And

943
01:22:13.640 --> 01:22:16.479
these tours are what we call diplomatic, meaning that as soon as you get

944
01:22:16.479 --> 01:22:20.479
off the plane, you are whisked
away to your hotel, they check you

945
01:22:20.560 --> 01:22:27.520
in, and every aspect of the
tour is tailored to your desires, to

946
01:22:27.600 --> 01:22:31.319
your needs. And each of these
and I'm talking about Egypt and Turkey,

947
01:22:31.439 --> 01:22:38.279
each of these tours has an itinerary
that is top notch. We go see

948
01:22:38.720 --> 01:22:43.680
temples, pyramids, buildings. In
Turkey, We're gonna go to darren Kuru,

949
01:22:43.720 --> 01:22:47.920
the Underground City. We're gonna go
to Cappadocia. We're gonna see go

950
01:22:48.039 --> 01:22:53.800
Beckley Tepe. I mean, all
the places we talk about here on Earth

951
01:22:53.840 --> 01:23:00.159
Ancients, we're gonna check out.
And Egypt is always evolving, but I'll

952
01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:05.159
tell you I love it. There
some of the most beautiful temples and structures

953
01:23:05.319 --> 01:23:11.880
as well as artifacts that you'll ever
see. So for more information go to

954
01:23:12.000 --> 01:23:15.880
Earth Ancients dot com, forward slash
Tours, t O U R S and

955
01:23:16.560 --> 01:23:19.800
register as soon as you can.
Both of those tours are filling up,

956
01:23:20.279 --> 01:23:26.399
and I will mention we are also
going to be in Mexico next November.

957
01:23:26.439 --> 01:23:31.119
We're going to do a Yucatan tour. We're going to see Ushmol since you

958
01:23:31.199 --> 01:23:36.840
need all the wonderful pyramid structures and
cities of the Great Maya, and then

959
01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:40.399
we're going to see some other stuff
too that's kind of cool too. So

960
01:23:40.560 --> 01:23:45.159
all those tours are available on Earth
ancients dot com, Forward slash Tours.

961
01:23:45.600 --> 01:23:49.239
If you have any questions and you're
going cliff, you know, I need

962
01:23:49.239 --> 01:23:53.279
a new I need more information,
Send me an email. Send it to

963
01:23:53.319 --> 01:24:00.359
earth Ancients for you at gmail dot
com. Earth Ancients the number four the

964
01:24:00.439 --> 01:24:03.079
letter you at gmail dot com.
Go Hey, Cliff, I want to

965
01:24:03.119 --> 01:24:09.600
go, but I'm curious about this, or I need more information or you

966
01:24:09.640 --> 01:24:16.520
know what planes should I fly?
And basically there are certain airlines that are

967
01:24:16.560 --> 01:24:21.159
better to fly long distances than others. I mean, if you're in the

968
01:24:21.239 --> 01:24:28.359
United States and you're hearing me,
some of the long haul airlines now are

969
01:24:28.399 --> 01:24:33.119
not necessarily from the United States.
The better ones are from Europe, you

970
01:24:33.119 --> 01:24:39.560
know, because they've been doing it
consistently. And I have to say this,

971
01:24:39.640 --> 01:24:43.119
as much as I love my country, our airlines are just can be

972
01:24:43.159 --> 01:24:47.119
a problem. You know. It's
like the reason I fly German airlines a

973
01:24:47.119 --> 01:24:54.800
lot Lutanza is that their amenities are
like better free alcohol. You can have

974
01:24:54.840 --> 01:24:58.319
a glass of wine that they're not
going to charge your arm or a leg.

975
01:24:59.359 --> 01:25:02.600
Their food, general food, which
is not necessarily have to pay for

976
01:25:02.680 --> 01:25:08.479
it is much better, and they
just they just do it better. It

977
01:25:08.520 --> 01:25:11.920
just feels better. You get you
get to your destination and you're feeling better.

978
01:25:12.520 --> 01:25:15.720
And that's huge because some of these
flights are twenty hours. You know,

979
01:25:16.199 --> 01:25:19.920
you're stuck, you know, on
a plan for twenty hours until you

980
01:25:19.960 --> 01:25:26.800
want the best. So anyhow,
send me an email Earth Ancients for you

981
01:25:27.000 --> 01:25:30.920
at gmail dot com and I'm happy
to answer your question. So give yourself

982
01:25:30.960 --> 01:25:36.279
a wonderful gift. And I tell
you it's a reasonable tour, that's the

983
01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:42.079
big thing. We're half off the
typical tour and we cover a lot.

984
01:25:42.239 --> 01:25:46.760
It is a VIP as well.
So we're gonna have Mohammad on in a

985
01:25:46.840 --> 01:25:53.039
few weeks early January to talk about
his new book on Egypt. But we're

986
01:25:53.039 --> 01:25:59.000
also going to talk about the tour
in Egypt in April and May, and

987
01:25:59.039 --> 01:26:03.000
then in August we'll be in Turkey, so check those out. All right,

988
01:26:03.079 --> 01:26:05.880
Hey, that's it for today.
I want to thank my guest today,

989
01:26:06.199 --> 01:26:12.359
mister Graham Hancock, coming from his
home in Bath, UK, England.

990
01:26:13.199 --> 01:26:17.520
And as always a team of Guilt
Tour, Mark Foster and everyone who

991
01:26:17.560 --> 01:26:23.520
makes this thing happen. You guys
rock all right, take care of me

992
01:26:23.640 --> 01:26:25.960
well and we will talk to you
next time.