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Good afternoon. You're listening to Gambling
with an Edge. Now here are your

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host Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin.
Good afternoon, welcome to Gambling with an

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Edge. I'm Bob Dancer and I'm
Richard Munchkin, and our guests today are

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different than what they usually are.
I am going to interview Richard, and

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then Richard is going to interview me. And we've never done this before,

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and we're not sure how it's going
to work out, but let's find out.

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So, Richard, you and Darryl
were gambling partners for more than three

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decades. So let's take a hypothetical
amayment, not be hypothetical, assume um

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twenty years ago, the early two
thousands, you and Darryl found a whole

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card play at Harrow's New Orleans.
Now, I don't know if you've ever

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played New Orleans, but for the
sake of the discussion, we did so.

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And let's kind of go through some
of the nuts and bolts of the

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play. So Harris New Orleans is
um near the French Quarter and their arm

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ten or more other hotels within three
blocks of Harris New Orleans. So would

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you and Ryl have stayed in the
same hotel or in different hotels. Um.

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Well, first of all, we
did play Harris New Orleans twenty years

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ago. Um and at that time, I don't know if it's changed,

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but Harris New Orleans did not have
a hotel themselves, so you had to

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stay off property, which we would
do anyway, um and um were there

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was someone else with us as well, usually when we were playing back then.

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UM, but um, we so
definitely we would stay at another hotel.

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And because it was not connected to
the casino, I mean, we

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weren't staying on a comp We would
pay for the hotel and so yeah,

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we would stay in the same room. And even if there were three or

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four of us, we would often
stay in the same room, not because

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we couldn't afford another room, but
just because everybody wanted to be talking long

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into the night. One of the
my favorite parts of the job actually was

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the hotel room after the play or
before or planning the play or whatever.

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So yes, we would be together
in a hotel room. All right,

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So Harris New Orleans has at least
four separate entrances, would you I'm assuming

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you're not all four, all three
of you coming in together at exactly the

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same time, So how would you
space it. Would you come in the

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same entrance or would you come in
different entrances or was that non important?

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It is important, and we would
not enter the casino at the same time

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at all. So usually if it
was a whole card play, or even

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if it's not, even if it's
another kind of play, we would stagger

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entering the casino. If in particular, if it was a whole card play,

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the reader would go in first and
start looking around for a game.

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And then, depending on how much, it doesn't matter what door you're going

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in if there's a bit of time
in between the entrances, so if you're

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coming in fifteen minutes later, it
doesn't matter, you know, if you

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came in the same door as somebody
else. So yeah, we would.

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We would stagger the entrance. We
would all be scouting until we found the

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game that we wanted, and then
the reader would sit down first. Now,

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sometimes let's say that I was going
to be the big player and I

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found the game, I would sit
down in the lucky seat and wait for

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the reader to see me, at
which point I would signal to him.

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And we had a signal that meant
take me out, you know, switch

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seats with me. And in this
case, for example, let's say I

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would switch with the reader, I
would walk away, and now maybe Daryl

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would come sit down as the big
player, and then maybe later I would

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come back and join the table as
well or not, or I might go

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look for another game or whatever.
So that's kind of the way we would

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do. And by the way,
that the idea about entering the casino together.

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I've said in the past that I
think the fact that I was a

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dealer really helped me as a player. And I can't tell you how many

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times I saw two guys walk into
a casino together and then suddenly head off

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in different directions, as if they
don't know each other, you know.

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So this was just me, you
know, looking around the casino as I

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was dealing or on the floor or
whatever. I remember one time walking into

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Harris in Las Vegas, and there
were two guys in front of me,

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and they walked in the door of
the casino and and like walked off in

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different directions, and I was like, Oh, these guys are up to

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something, you know. So I
just kind of followed one of them to

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see where what they were doing.
Where they were going, what table they

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were, you know, and it
turned out to be two guys who were

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playing a whole card. Now if
so, let's so there's this readable dealers

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that you've found, and the dealers
are is it forty minutes on twenty minutes

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off at the normal dealers schedule?
You know, it varies. Some places

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it's they were twenty minutes at the
table and then run to a different table

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and they don't come back for you
know, an hour and a half or

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something, So it varies. Sometimes
they have their own table, which is

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obviously the best, and sometimes they
run they run a rubber band, it's

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called and they get sent to a
different table each time. And then there's

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a third option where there's like a
four table rotation and they go twenty twenty

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twenty off or three table routineous twenty
twenty twenty off. You know, so

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it just varies. Okay, So
if it was going to be going to

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keep coming back to the same table, say forty on twenty off, but

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back to the same table, would
you play during the twenty minutes that the

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other dealer presumably who's not readable,
was there or you want this, you

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know, people who are knits will
get up and go to the bathroom.

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You know. The reader, of
course, will stay. He's got to

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stay in the seat. You know, people who are knits, who don't

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want to give up anything, will
get up and leave for the twenty minutes

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and there's nothing I mean, I
mean, it becomes really obvious when people

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do that, but people do it. So we would usually stay and play

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through. We might bet a little
less than we were when the good dealer

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was there, but usually we would
stay. Now, if they're going to

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be gone for an hour and twenty
minutes or whatever because they're you know,

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they go, they rotate to two
other tables and then come back, well

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then yeah, then we'd leave for
the hour or whatever, but get back

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to the table before the dealer came
back, so we were already there when

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they came back from that rotation.
Well, if the dealer was readable and

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it goes to another table, wouldn't
you follow him to his new table?

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No, not, unless there was
a separate reader at the at the other

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table. Again, it just looks
too obvious if you're just following the dealer

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around the casino. You know,
it's fine if you're betting quarters or something,

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but if you're trying to bet close
to table max, you don't want

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again. It just becomes too obvious. So if there were three of you,

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and presumably you're off content at all
the jobs, that's a big assumption.

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Usually the reader is a very specialized
skill, and a good reader is

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hard is hard to find. So
I mean, if it's a I mean,

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you know, there were games,
especially on carnival games, where the

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dealer basically just put the card in
your face. You know, you couldn't

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not see it. They were so
bad at some of these carnival games.

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In that case, then yeah,
anybody could read. And if there were

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three of you, you would post
a one of your readers on the next

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table he would be at, and
so your big player would move, but

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your racial reader would stay. Yeah, and in that case it might be

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good for the big player to get
up before the dealer leaves and go to

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the new table. And now suddenly
the dealer gets their break and they moved

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to your table, so it doesn't
look like you're following them. It looks

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like they followed you basically. Okay, Now at it Harris, New Orleans.

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Usually it's good enough weather and the
distances are short, you can walk

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to the casino. But let's say
the same kind of situation is in the

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middle of Iowa in winter and there's
no hotel within a few miles of the

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casino. Oh yeah, that's okay
in the ass, So you have to

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drive and so so presumably runted a
car and you come in the same car,

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but one of you stays in the
car for a while. How does

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that work. Well, back twenty
years ago, there were a lot fewer

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places that had cameras in the parking
lot, you know, So, so

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yes, we would park far from
the door and stagger going into the casino.

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You know. Nowadays it's really better
to have two cars, and even

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then if you can park not in
the because of these cameras all over the

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parking lots. Now it's better if
you can park not in the casino parking

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lot. Many times, if there
was a big win or or some heat

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on the play, the big player
would would just get a cab and not

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take it to the hotel, but
take it to somewhere like a Starbucks or

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something like that, and then get
picked up by the team later. You

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know, And I, you know, one of the guys I worked with

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one time walked back to the hotel. It was like seven miles at night,

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you know, because because you know, there's been some heat on the

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play and he just walked seven miles
to go back to the hotel. Wow,

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with a bunch of money or chipps
in his pocket. Well he was

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the reader, so well, yeah, he probably did have a bunch of

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money and chips in his pocket.
Yeah. Well, now you know when

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when, um, when I was
younger and stupider, UM, I had

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a situation at UM well, I
guess I could say the name now um

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at Paula and which is kind of
in the middle of nowhere in California.

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There's really not much around. Um
yeah, in southern California, southern California.

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Yeah, and UM, so I
was playing a whole card and um

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they barred me. They came and
barred me and um but they they really

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had no idea what was going on
because they didn't say a word to the

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reader. And so I got up
and I left. They were trying to

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get me to go cash out,
and I said no thanks, and I

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just headed to the door and they
were asking for ID and I was like,

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no, I'm just leaving. And
I left and I was parked in

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their parking lot because there really isn't
anywhere else to park, at least there

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wasn't at that time. But now
my reader is there, and where do

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I go? So I drove on
the edge of the parking lot. There

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is a gas station, and so
I drove to the gas station, and

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I parked up at the gas station
and here come a couple of security guards

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on bicycles and they pull in and
you know, blocking my car in,

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not that I'm gonna take off at
that point, and make a big show

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of pulling out a notepad and you
know, looking at my license plate and

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writing down my license plate. So
that was a mistake on my part.

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I should have just headed down the
road and then you know, after my

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reader came out, he could call
me and we could I could pick him

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up somewhere. But so after they
wrote down my license plate, that is

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what happened. I drove down the
road and and then you know, eventually

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he got out and called me and
I ended up picking him up down the

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road somewhere. So let let me
ask you a question now, or are

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we still in this whole card scenario. Well, I have more for you

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you'll have a chance to ask me. Okay, so you're talking about a

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situation where cell phones are necessary part
of calling each other in. But cell

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phones were i don't know, mid
nineties or something, the greatest invention for

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advantaged players. Ever, it was
just a nightmare before cell phones. Could

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tell us a little bit about how
it would be with about cell phones.

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How would you, uh, how
would you do these kind of things?

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Well, it was all signaled.
So before a play, we would agree

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on a backup casino. So if
if we if we can't find anything at

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this casino, we're going to go
to casino number two. And there was

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a signal for that which was which
meant go to the backup club. There

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was a famous story on the Ken
Houston team of a guy who they were

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going to play at the Dunes.
Now this is forty plus years ago.

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They were going to play at the
Dunes and the backup club was the Sahara,

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and so they couldn't find a game
at the Dunes, they gave the

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signal. They go down to the
Sahara and one of the guys just doesn't

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show up, never shows up,
And the next day they're back at the

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apartment and the guy calls and he
says, what happened to you, guys?

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And they say, what happened to
you? We were at the Sahara

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And he says, I'm here right
now at the Sahara and Reno, and

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I never saw you guys. And
this guy went to the There was a

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Sahara in Reno, and another one
in Tahoe, and of course the one

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in Vegas. And for some reason, this Brady act thought the backup club

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meant get on a plane and go
to the Sahara and Reno anyway, so

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we would have a backup club.
And then at the end of the play,

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usually the meeting place was and if
you didn't find a game at the

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backup club, then you would go
to the meeting place. And the meeting

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place was almost always the Peppermill restaurant
on the Las Vegas Strip, which is

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still there. It's kind of across
the street from Circus Circus. And yeah,

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that was that was always our our
meeting place after plays or in between

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plays or but yeah, many many
messed up, you know, evenings because

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of no not having the ability to
communicate. Yeah, that does sound like

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a nightmare now. It used to
be on the show. Sometimes you would

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miss a week or we would tape
shows twice, and the answer was,

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you're off playing a secret game,
and that's what. That was a kind

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of a running joke. And sometimes
you were filming a movie in Texas or

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somewhere, but on this air,
we always would say, Munchkins is off

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playing the secret game. Now,
a few years ago, you actually were

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playing a secret game, but it
was a video poker game. And I

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was disappointed that I was not part
of that. But the general consensus was

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I bring my own heat, and
I'm so well known that I'm more likely

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to be spied recognized. And if
they can't figure out what Bob d Answer

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is doing here, then yeah,
that wouldn't be good. So I didn't

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00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:18,039
get part of it. But so
what do you remember the playing? What

207
00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:22,559
can you tell us about that?
Oh? Well, I definitely remember the

208
00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:29,519
play. But it's also it was
a very very unusual play for me because

209
00:17:29,559 --> 00:17:32,839
I had nothing to do with it. I mean I didn't find it,

210
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:37,319
I didn't manage it. I didn't
recruit the people. Basically, I got

211
00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:45,880
a phone call from someone that I
really had not worked with much at all,

212
00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:49,920
and I mean we knew each other
and we were friendly and we had

213
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:56,839
worked with some mutual people to you
know, but it was his play and

214
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:03,839
he called me and I you know, he told me what the game would

215
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,680
be worth hourly and said, you
know, can you fly here tomorrow?

216
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:14,839
And I said, yeah, absolutely, And because it was a very very

217
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:22,799
high hourly, and this was a
machine that was misspaying you know, um,

218
00:18:22,519 --> 00:18:27,440
and it was misspaying in a way
that was completely legal for unt so

219
00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:32,480
you know, it wasn't like an
ATM that was spending money out when it

220
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:37,960
shouldn't be. And I remember I
said how much cash should I bring and

221
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:45,240
he said, oh, forty bucks. I was like, okay, he

222
00:18:45,279 --> 00:18:48,359
goes, yeah, there's there's no
variance at all. You just sit down

223
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:55,480
and start winning. So uh,
you know, it was really enjoyable.

224
00:18:55,519 --> 00:19:00,160
I ended up working with a bunch
of guys I had never worked with before,

225
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:08,680
and they were very professional and and
you know, it was a lot

226
00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:18,200
the stars aligned correctly for a lot
of really really great things to happen that

227
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,640
allowed us to win a lot more
money than normally you would on something like

228
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:29,200
this. So I mean, so
just for example, you know, I

229
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,599
mentioned this is a video poker that's
not paying the way it should well.

230
00:19:33,079 --> 00:19:38,400
So one thing that helped was it
was on a bar, and it was

231
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:44,920
the last machine on the bar,
so only there's only one person that could

232
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:53,920
be next to you who might notice. Number two, it was a When

233
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,880
a jackpot hit, the sound had
been turned off, so there wasn't no

234
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,720
boys happening all the time with bells
ringing. So that's another thing that helped

235
00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:11,200
us. Number three, because it
was there was only one seat next to

236
00:20:11,319 --> 00:20:17,720
us, we could employ a blocker
to sit in that seat, so nobody

237
00:20:17,799 --> 00:20:22,000
could happened to be sitting next to
us and notice that we were hitting jackpots

238
00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:26,960
left and right. And number four
it was a fifty cent machine, so

239
00:20:27,079 --> 00:20:33,359
that the only time the machine would
lock up is if you got a royal,

240
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:41,400
And so we threw away any chance
of getting a royal, you know,

241
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,680
unless it was a delt royal,
in which case you had no choice.

242
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,720
The machine locks up if that happens. But if we had like a

243
00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:52,400
single king, we're keeping a tent
off suit ten with it or something to

244
00:20:52,519 --> 00:21:00,279
make sure that we didn't draw a
royal accidentally, and we did. I

245
00:21:00,319 --> 00:21:03,079
think we played it for ten days
or something. Um And the reason that

246
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,119
it lasted as long as it did. Was the casino had something going on

247
00:21:07,799 --> 00:21:14,400
where it was the busiest week of
the year for them, so you know,

248
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:19,319
they they just were super busy,
and I guess did not notice how

249
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,920
much this machine would so so,
as I say, the stars just kind

250
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:29,759
of aligned in a very lucky way
to allow us to play as long as

251
00:21:29,799 --> 00:21:34,920
we did. Yeah, when you
first told me about this, I had

252
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:44,519
not played using a blocker before,
and I was an experienced video booker player

253
00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:51,640
and had never considered that that was
necessary or and then when you when you

254
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,240
said, yeah, we used a
blocker, I's going, holy shit,

255
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,599
that makes just so much sense.
Well, also, you know, we

256
00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:03,359
were playing the machine four hours a
day, and there was this little old

257
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,880
lady who was like in her seventies
or eighties who knew about it, and

258
00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:14,680
you know, she had made some
comment about how she had paid her taxes,

259
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,599
you know, off that machine,
that it was her lucky machine.

260
00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:21,880
And she kept trying to come back
and trying to come back, and there

261
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,160
would always be somebody there, and
there'd always be somebody so she couldn't even

262
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,079
sit next to it and wait for
them to leave, and she would come

263
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,480
at all hours, two in the
morning, four in the morning, I

264
00:22:32,519 --> 00:22:36,440
mean, just trying to get back
on the machine, and you know,

265
00:22:36,519 --> 00:22:41,000
of course she never could. But
yeah, you know, using a blocker

266
00:22:41,559 --> 00:22:45,920
is um. I mean, we
often have to occupy seats in blackjack to

267
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,039
keep other people away from a table, so um, they're not really blocking

268
00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:56,680
anybody's view, but they're there just
to block other players from from getting on

269
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,759
the table. So so uh,
yeah, it was. It was a

270
00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:04,880
great idea. Again, it wasn't
mine. You know, of all the

271
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,119
plays I've made, it seems weird
to be talking about this one because really

272
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,400
I was just kind of a button
pusher. Um. I was not any

273
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:19,839
of the creative aspect or any you
know, part of organizing the play.

274
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:26,640
So what pausit to end? Because
because obviously did end, it starts still

275
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,359
going on. Uh yeah. At
one point they just shut down all the

276
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:36,839
machines on the whole bar and started
going through them one by one, and

277
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:42,039
we kind of knew the jig was
up. And yeah, and you know

278
00:23:42,079 --> 00:23:48,319
they've I guess they eventually realized something
was happening and they sent somebody down there

279
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,960
to fix it. But the guy
who was playing at the time got out

280
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,039
with no problems. Nobody had any
heat. We I also would say that

281
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:04,680
they were very good about planning how
to handle the money, and that was

282
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:12,240
every time you got your your balance
up to about nine hundred dollars, we'd

283
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:18,599
cash out a ticket and then put
in one hundred dollar bill and you would

284
00:24:18,599 --> 00:24:22,839
accumulate these nine hundred dollars tickets and
you could go to Kiosks and cash those

285
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,759
nine hundred dollars tickets and nobody would
cash, you know, more than nine

286
00:24:27,759 --> 00:24:33,559
thousand dollars in any single day.
So yeah, so we were really just

287
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:40,960
kind of invisible, huh uh.
And to me, I found that a

288
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,359
very interesting play. All right,
So Rich, do you have any questions

289
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:51,400
for me? Well? Yeah,
my first question is you have started playing

290
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,160
slots and you're playing quite a number
of hours, and it just kind of

291
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:02,079
surprised me at your age, like
why why are you working so hard,

292
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:07,079
and especially being in casinos where with
all of the cigarettes smoke, and you

293
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,480
used to have some COPD problems,
right, so so why out there doing

294
00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:15,480
it? Well, first of all, I enjoy it. It gives me

295
00:25:15,799 --> 00:25:19,880
pleasure to kick a casino in the
butt. Yeah, I get that definitely.

296
00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:30,160
And the although I was seen once
in the in the airport they I

297
00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:34,640
saw through the glass and there that
the slots are in the smoking section they

298
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:40,559
have are there are weather slots in
a non smoking section too. But I

299
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,599
passed the smoking section and saw this
great game, and so I played.

300
00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:53,599
And then somebody who's not one of
my fans saw me in the smoking section

301
00:25:53,839 --> 00:26:02,880
and decided to mention it to on
Twitter world. Yeah, and so I

302
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,400
was asked quite a bit about that, and uh and even Richard asked me,

303
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:14,319
you know, how Earth can ever
find it a reasonable play to play

304
00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:21,119
on in the smoking section? So
um, yeah. I was speculating myself,

305
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,759
like, how much would it have
to be worth an hour for me

306
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:30,200
goes in the smoking section of push
Buttons? Um. Yeah. So insofar

307
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:41,000
as um COPD goes, um,
that's largely gone away due to um my

308
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,119
my um my weight, my diet
and the amount of exercise I'm doing.

309
00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:52,880
So the I've talked a lot about
longevity situations in the recommended section over the

310
00:26:52,920 --> 00:27:00,400
past number of months, and for
me, that's that that's really working.

311
00:27:00,599 --> 00:27:10,559
I am healthier now than I have
been a long time, which so the

312
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,839
COPD is gone. I have an
inhaler with me, but I have not

313
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:21,240
used the inhaler in several months,
and um, you know, any time

314
00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:23,920
it could come back, of course, But um, yeah, well that's

315
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:30,599
good. It is. It's like
I've come to the opinion that that it's

316
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:45,759
almost as though, um, things
like asthma and certain other diseases are kind

317
00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:53,079
of voluntary diseases, which I'm sure
is very offensive to people who suffer from

318
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,799
one of these diseases. And that
will tell me that there's nothing voluntary about

319
00:27:56,839 --> 00:28:03,880
it. But a lot out of
it is curable by diet and exercise.

320
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,680
Yeah, and so there's people who
just don't want to hear that, And

321
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:19,640
so the long jeopardy stym reading is
suggests that it matters. Yeah, yeah,

322
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:25,559
you know, getting back to um
the you know, continuing to play

323
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:30,119
as much as you are. I
remember I met a legendary blackjack player back

324
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:37,640
in about nineteen eighty, a guy
named John Kretz, and he had already

325
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:45,559
made a million dollars playing blackjack,
and he went and had plastic surgery to

326
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:52,240
change his face so that he can
continue playing. And now remember in nineteen

327
00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:57,279
eighty resorts in Atlantic City had just
opened, and the only place to play

328
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:03,880
was Nevada and you know, basically
Vegas, Reno, Taho. So when

329
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,599
you get well known, you it
was hard to play anyway, So he

330
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,759
had plastic surgery, and a million
dollars in nineteen eighty was a lot of

331
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:18,359
money. And I said to him, like, you know, why would

332
00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:21,720
you have plastic surgery? I mean, you made a million dollars, what

333
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,680
more do you need? And he
was like, well, this is what

334
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,960
I do, this is my life. What am I going to do?

335
00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:32,000
Sit on the porch, you know? And I was like, oh,

336
00:29:32,039 --> 00:29:36,000
okay, yeah, I guess that
makes sense. I got it. Yeah,

337
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:41,200
I can see that. Yeah,
I'm and that's partly his answer would

338
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:48,440
be the same as my answer,
and I would need to have some sort

339
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:56,519
of intellectual stimulation. And so which
is why, in addition to gambling,

340
00:29:56,519 --> 00:30:03,279
I still do some improv I still
do storytelling, I still do a few

341
00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:10,000
other things. Is I'm so concerned
about people who say, well, he

342
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,680
worked for forty years and then he
retired and he was dead six months later

343
00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:21,240
because he just didn't know what to
do with hisself, and yeah, yeah,

344
00:30:21,799 --> 00:30:23,759
yeah, I get it. And
so I so there's just a whole

345
00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:27,400
bunch of things that I still do. In addition to gambling. Now.

346
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:33,839
One of the things I don't I
haven't talked a whole lot about it is

347
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:40,880
people on this who listen to this
show mainly know me since two thousand and

348
00:30:41,319 --> 00:30:49,480
ten. And my claim to fame
happened in like in two thousand and one

349
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:55,440
when I hit the million dollars in
six months, and that was a life

350
00:30:56,039 --> 00:31:06,079
changing situation. The I know,
I was a I was a real penny

351
00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:11,720
pincher saving up money too. I
would put Jimmy Jazz to shame. I

352
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:19,480
was to how would I would pinch
pennies and I would out frugal Jean Scott.

353
00:31:21,119 --> 00:31:25,799
And then all of a sudden,
I was a millionaire and it changes

354
00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:34,440
your perspective on things. It also
changed people's perception of me. The I

355
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:41,559
was not any smarter after I hit
after I had that million dollars six months

356
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,400
than I was before it, But
now the fact that I had it gave

357
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,799
me credibility, and people goes,
well, that guy did so well during

358
00:31:49,839 --> 00:31:56,519
that time period, he must be
you know, he must know what he's

359
00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:05,519
talking about. So yeah, writing
books gives you credibility to uh, not

360
00:32:05,599 --> 00:32:09,799
always deserved, but but just the
fact that you've written a book some people

361
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,519
just take that as well, he
must know something. He wrote a book.

362
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,079
So but yeah, you did become
the authority. But you know,

363
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:27,960
I also, you know, for
a big part of my career, I

364
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,440
was pretty frugal too, not not
to your degree, but um, I

365
00:32:32,599 --> 00:32:37,119
always had this feeling like it could
all be over tomorrow, and the one

366
00:32:37,119 --> 00:32:40,480
thing I did not want to do
was go get a job, you know.

367
00:32:42,119 --> 00:32:47,799
So so I was always worried that
that it could end and I would

368
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,480
run out of money or whatever.
But then, yeah, I reached a

369
00:32:52,519 --> 00:32:59,880
period where I had a quite a
bit of success and at some point of

370
00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:04,200
is like a weight was lifted off
my shoulders and I could just relax and

371
00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:09,119
go, it's it's gonna be okay. You know, I'm not gonna go

372
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:15,279
bankrupt, and you know, even
if things go really bad, well,

373
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:20,920
I'm always going to be able to
make money. There's always gonna be opportunities,

374
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,359
and I just stopped worrying about it. Yeah, And it's also an

375
00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:30,599
addition to those kind of feelings which
I had. It's like I also felt

376
00:33:31,559 --> 00:33:37,640
like if the gambling opportunities dried up, I would still be okay. I

377
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:45,920
didn't really need anymore me I did
um and less, I got really stupid

378
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:51,440
about things, or the world's economy
went belly yeah, which is of course

379
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,640
always a possibility. Yeah, we
have bigger problems than just our personal mind.

380
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,200
I mean, for it to go
that belly up, you know.

381
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:05,079
Uh, well, I was you
know during the two thousand and seven two

382
00:34:05,079 --> 00:34:12,280
thousand and eight where you know,
the market dropped over fifty percent, and

383
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,559
you know, real estate was done. Nobody knew for sure how it was

384
00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:25,639
going to end up, and it
was a worldwide situation due to the subprime

385
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:32,800
market going haywire. So it could
have gone it could have gone differently.

386
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:39,920
Do you consider yourself an optimist or
a pessimist? Oh, optimists optimists,

387
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:45,480
And it's and it's a real good
question. U. I. I'm not

388
00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:53,559
looking at worst case scenarios, but
I generally believe I'm gonna be okay.

389
00:34:54,400 --> 00:35:00,320
I generally believe that I'm smart enough
to figure out most things. Whether that's

390
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,920
true or not, I don't.
Um, time will tell. I suppose

391
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:12,639
you got this far? I mean, well, but it's like there's a

392
00:35:12,679 --> 00:35:20,440
famous example of of a turkey.
Yeah always uh you know, who's who's

393
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:27,280
being fattened for Thanksgiving? But so
his whole life has been uh, he's

394
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,960
been fed well, he's had all
the exercise he needs, he's very healthy,

395
00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:37,639
and um, he cannot foresee anything
going wrong because he's had no experience

396
00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:42,119
within going wrong. But then,
of course, uh, in the third

397
00:35:42,119 --> 00:35:49,400
week of November one year, his
world change in an unforeseen way. Now,

398
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:55,199
if the world economy goes to put, that could easily happen to us.

399
00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:00,079
YEA, yeah, could. But
let's go back to game, all

400
00:36:00,159 --> 00:36:07,599
right, do you have any regrets
about your career? You know, I

401
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:15,960
used to say that I regretted not
working harder back when every time you turned

402
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:22,280
around there was another whole card to
play, or you know that I didn't

403
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:27,760
take more advantage of playing with computers
back in the early eighties when it was

404
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,599
legal. But now I think about
that, and I'm like, well,

405
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,719
what would the difference in my life
have been? Really? Not much.

406
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,480
I mean, maybe i'd have more
money in the bank, but I'm doing

407
00:36:40,519 --> 00:36:45,519
okay, So so no, I
don't, I don't. I mean,

408
00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:50,960
well, I mean I regret I
got scammed by a guy. You know,

409
00:36:51,039 --> 00:36:53,119
I think this is something that we
don't talk about enough. But I

410
00:36:53,199 --> 00:37:00,119
know a lot of gamblers who have
been scammed and and you know, I

411
00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:05,760
got scammed by a guy and um, and I really regret that. Man,

412
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,440
that was a nightmare. Um.
And and you know, the worst

413
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:15,159
part of it was that I had
a lot of friends who were involved and

414
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:20,800
they lost money. It was much
worse them losing money than me losing money.

415
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,719
And I ended up, you know, suing the guy. And that

416
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:28,480
lasted for five years and ended up
going nowhere. And you know, so

417
00:37:28,519 --> 00:37:31,400
I really regret that. Um.
And of course when it's all over,

418
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,280
you always look back and go,
how can I be that stupid? How

419
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,880
did I fall for that? But
UM, yeah, I guess that's my

420
00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:46,000
big regret. How about you,
Well, it's always uh, I have

421
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:57,119
um decades chasing a dollar. Both
of them are quite bright enough. We

422
00:37:57,199 --> 00:38:05,880
could have made in this world with
you know, trying to cure cancer or

423
00:38:06,079 --> 00:38:12,440
trying to do something more worthy than
just chasing a dollar, because casino gamblers

424
00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:19,920
are basically not contributing to the world. They are, no, but we

425
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,119
contribute through the arts, right,
I mean, you've been writing that's a

426
00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:30,239
contribution. That's certainly for me.
The gambling was always a means to an

427
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:35,079
end. It was a way to
make a living for me to pursue the

428
00:38:35,159 --> 00:38:38,880
creative endeavors. I was interested.
Yeah, so that's how I justify it.

429
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:46,199
So I have, but it is
still I think a lot of gamblers.

430
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:52,079
I think, you know, is
this if those of us whose parents

431
00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:54,880
are still alive, which is not
the case for me, you know,

432
00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:01,320
explaining to mom and dad this is
what I'm doing and h and then saying,

433
00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:05,400
you know, the idea of you
know, but you could be doing

434
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:12,840
so much more, and I'm going
yeah, but so overall, I'm happy

435
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,719
with my life, but I every
now and then I'm wondering, it's just

436
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:21,800
making money enough of a reason to
spend your life. Yeah, well,

437
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,320
maybe you should do some volunteer work. Oh well, I actually do,

438
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:34,280
and I actually, uh do things
other than gambling, and so yeah,

439
00:39:34,519 --> 00:39:38,000
I uh and I keep encouraging other
people to do that kind of things too.

440
00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:45,079
All right, So we've had a
nice episode. We're we're not doing

441
00:39:45,159 --> 00:39:52,519
sponsors today simply, uh, this
is a bonus episode that we originally didn't

442
00:39:52,559 --> 00:40:00,760
plan, and so we're still gonna
have one last session next week. It's

443
00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:07,480
a mailbag session and looking forward to
that one, and then it's goodbye for

444
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:12,880
gambling with an edge, so thank
you Richard. Go out and hit lots

445
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,440
of royal flushes. Everybody, good
day,