What is crack the lack and fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am Damp Valley coming at you with some hoops talk. The usual housekeeping goes before we can evolve in here. Please remember to subscribe wherever you're consuming us Apple, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Play, wherever. Throw us the permanent subscriptions this year first time here. Ratings and reviews on Apple and Spotify help a ton to bring us up the charts. Subscribe to us on YouTube if you're watching me us there as well, like and comment, help the algorithm, love us back and do both. Subscribe to the audio podcast subscribe on YouTube. If you've done both those things, I would humbly ask that you tell people about us. Recommend us, reteat our promos on Twitter, Shout us out on Twitter, just shout us out in general. Join our discord. The link to that is in the podcast and YouTube description. We appreciate any and all shoutouts or word of mouth recommendations. Those are what keep Grant and I going at the moment. And follow us on the social channels. We are at Hardwood Knox on YouTube, TikTok, and Twitter, and we're at Hardwood Underscore Knox on Instagram. I believe that is it? So Ken joint Discord subscribe tell people about us. Shout Outs are always nice. They help massager egos, and we really appreciate it, especially when I'm coming at you with an attempt to number two record a seventy plus minute podcast on the Magic and Hawks, only for it to get fucked up because I'm an idiot and I was changing the way I was recording because my Internet was fucked up, So went to bed reset trying to squeeze it in amid moving and a bunch of other stuff that I have going on too. You know, I did a bunch of research, thought about it a lot, and wanted to make sure that the podcast went out. And so we start with where else Trey Young come on? Chris Haynes a Bleacher report reports that executives at the Glee showcasing Las Vegas are kind of expecting or wondering or bracing for Trey Young to be the next superstar to ask out, depending on your definition of superstar. Do you think that's going to be Lavigne or Beale in Chicago first? Who knows? This was backed up by Mark Stein, basically of the Steinline, reporting that the relationship between Trey and head coach Nate McMillan has effectively worsened since the whole miscommunication. I'm using quotes in my hands if anyone's watching between them about Trey's status for a game a few weeks ago, and you know we'recovering from an injury. So if that's worsened, that makes you curious is to what's going to happen. And there's also just the past reporting of again we know that him Nate McMillan clashed, but also, and I can't remember who reported, I'm not sure if it was the athletic or somewhere else that if you were to pull people in the Hawks, the players would be more likely to side with Nate McMillan then Trey Young. Amid all this travish slank steps down or is promoted into an advisorial however you want to phrase it. Landry Fields is going to take over as the primary overlord in charge of basketball operations. I think that's just what we should call it at this point. That change is and let's start with the Trey Young stuff. I'm gonna get into trade destinations if you're here for that, and I will clip it and post a separate video of it as well for people who just want the Tray Young destinations on YouTube. But I would be floored if there's a Tray Young trade mid season. He has four years in one hundred and seventy eight point one million left on his deal. The final year of that is an early termination option, so that's still three years under team control. We did just see Utah moved Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert when they had a ton of time left on their contracts. That was still a move, a decision they made over the offseason, and so for this to happen mid season, he would have to go full blown Anthony Davis Sarca twenty nineteen and that didn't even work out. But you would have to really push for a trade demand. Maybe one comes. But the Hawks are they feel like they're in dire straits, even though as they're recorded they're at five hundred, which they clearly expected to be better. And you look inward or outward for solutions to figure out whether you can fix this. First, since you already doubled down on it, you have some picks headed out to San Antonio at this beginning in two twenty five. You have Murray coming up on free agency after next season. What are you even looking for in a Trey Young trade at that point? So we will get into that. But can the Hawks fix themselves this season? As for that is, I don't know, and I think you look at them, they've underachieved on offense. If you want to say that Nate McMillan should be fired, that he should have been more creative with some of the bench lineups or rotations in general, I kind of get that going back and looking at some of the lineups that they've used. They've also been really banged up this year. I will say, under no circumstance should this team be in the bottom five with three point at attempt rate and three point percentage. Trey is a part of the three point percentage. He is shooting under thirty percent or about thirty percent on his pull up threes. He's at under thirty four percent on his catch and shoot threes. The fit with Murray has not been super clean. There are lineups like they're expected. Starting five this season has actually played pretty well when they've been available, but it does feel like it doesn't even feel like your turn, my turn, so much as trying to fit like two round pegs in the same square hole at times, and you can see the vision of it when it actually is working, but it's never felt like it's clicked. And that's to be expected. To some extent. They were in their first season together. We are thirty two games deep into a season that for them that they have not played in every game together, and so I get that there's the functional awkwardness there. And also Trey Young's volume off the ball. We've seen him use more off the ball, but it hasn't like skyrocket it. Catch and shoot attempts still only account for like seven percent of his total field goal looks, and so that's not this huge number, and it makes you wonder, are things a little bit too cramped for Atlanta when you're looking at these two and a half court I would say yes, because of how much they're lying on the mid range, which it makes sense when you look at trays in between game, when you look at where Jean da Murray has been strongest. He has hit his threes at a good clip this season. But you need to open things up probably a little bit more, to have more diversification when you're looking at guys who can put the ball in their hands, but also just opening up with your shooting. John Collins comes back from injury, He's been shooting twelve and a half percent from three. Ever since that's the name that I think you start on this team, you wonder, Okay, well, what's happening here? He has three years and like seventy eight million whatever it is left on his contract. That seems like it's viewed around the league as a net negative now, just based off the rumors. Stein did report also that the Hawks are reinvigorated to move him, whatever the hell that means. I don't know what they get for him at this point. I would give up more for John Collins. I think most would becase. I'm a big believer. I don't even think he needs to be used as the primary screener. But you can't marginalize him to the point where you're not even going to test his floor game. You're not going to use him a ton as a screener. And he's someone who you know, if his three point shots not going to fall, that yeah, that could be on him. Is he just bystand or duty not suiting him? I still think he could help teams. I don't know what they give up for him at this point. If you're Atlanta, are you just interested in a salary dump at this point where you get expiring contracts back, in which case Kuzma Barton for Collins. Is that something Washington looks at with Kuzma going into free agency? Is Collins really additioned by subtraction? Though? I don't think just moving him is additioned by subtraction. If you were to move him for just say, expiring money for players that you're not actually planning on using, I don't think that necessarily helps your team. And so if you're getting someone back like Kyle Kuzma, yeah, that could help. And there are teams that I think should go after him that probably wouldn't. I mean, like Toronto could build something interesting you start with GTJ salary, and that's someone who I think could probably help the Hawks, even if he's a little bit smaller, because you would want them to get like the Harrison Barnes type player they were supposed to get in a Collins trade, Which is sort of a big what if is what if instead of making the Kevin Hurder trade, you make the College trade and you have Harrison Barnes and Kevin Hurder instead of John Collins. Does his team look a lot different? I don't know. Barnes started the season pretty roughly, but he is again a squeak ear clean fit for this team. The Kings are certainly going to be out on Collins now with the way they're playing in just the setup of their roster. Dallas would love to get their hands on him, I would assume, especially with the Maxi Kleiba injury. But they're just I wouldn't expect them to give up future first for him, and they don't even have attractive expiring money or any young like I guess Josh Green or Jaden Harvey would they give You know, they would have to give one of those guys up in the dealers because they're not sending back palatable contracts. But they're not giving up Dorian Fitny Smith at this point. For John Collins, you could look at Utah. I would just love to see him there because the vibes are great in Utah and the way that they play. You could play him next to Walker Kessler, who's just been an absolute beast this season on defense, or you can you know, they've played bigger while while spacing the floor out too. You could go Lenick Marketing and John Collins. I don't know who's a part of that deal. Marketing would be a great fit for Atlanta, but you would have to give up first round equity in addition to Collins, and I don't think they have enough to do that. Utah really have to be in love with Collins. The Hawks can trade their first round pick this year, but it gets murky and difficult for them to trade future picks beyond that. So but if you if it's if the asking price is just I don't know, is it is it Malie Beasley at this point or are there Jazz even doing that? Malik Beasley and stuff. Kelly Olynik and Jordan Clarkson was floated, but Jordan Clarkson is an extension talks with Utah right now. I would love to see John Collins in Utah though, if you keep Lyar Marker in there, just the vibes are great. Not like a super intuitive basketball fit, I guess, but it would be incredibly fun to watch. And then like there's not Phoenix has been mentioned. I don't know you can get to the money without trading your core pieces and maybe they'd be likely to give up a first round pick. But is that where you're again, if you're Atlanta, if it's Sharich, Jay Crowder and a first and then sham it like and then it's kind of a three for one, or you're throwing smaller salary there to make it work. Are you doing that? I don't necessarily love the Collins fit in Phoenix if you think he can lead some bench units with campaign or that it's really just gonna help. If you don't expect CEP three to be the score that he was long term leading into the playoffs, that that could certainly help, but you're going to run into some of the same issues where he's if he's sharing the fourth DeAndre in which he can do, you're just reliant on him basically being able to hit threes as a bystander. So I don't necessarily love that fit other teams. That's pretty to mind. It's like, I will admit that for as much as I love John Collins, he does feel like a very specific fit. I already mentioned Toronto is one of the ones that I would keep coming back to. I don't know who you give up for that specific with Gary Trent Junior, would would Chris Bouche and Gary Trent Junior? Is there is there something there is that too much in Toronto's view? Do they not want John Collins's money? I think that would be Gary tren Jinior's head towards free agency. I'm a big fan of Chris Bouchet not hanging his threes right now, but you could technically work him into Atlanta's front court, clears the runway a little bit from Yeka kong Wu with John Collins gone, and you could technically play those two together, Bouche and on Yeka off the bench, so you could look at that. I thought about, I thought about for a minute, and I'm moving on. I just thought about Memphis have Jared Jackson junior John collinsby don't you just don't fuck with it with what you're doing in Memphis. I'd love to seem in Okay. See, they can't get to the money until the start of the off season. They're you know, third highest paid player is check home Grin at nine point nine million, and they're not moving him. They're not moving door, they're not moving Shay to get John Collins. They're not moving John's giddy at this point to get John Collins. He would be fun there though, when they have cap space a little bit to work with the Spurs taking a flyer if they wanted him, they probably would have done that in the John Da Murray trade, or at least we would have hurt him a little bit more linked Miami could be semi interesting and you would assume you get first round EQUI out of them. But again, now you're getting into a scenario where it's okay, they gave us Duncan Robinson and Kayla Martin or Victor Ladipo and picks like is that the return? We're okay with Douglan Robinson could certainly help the three point volume of this team, but what is he going to do for your defense, which has by the way, when you watch the Hawks and they're at fifteenth dead on perclean glass and both offensive and DEFENSI efficiency right now, the defense just feels off too, and like they've had some excellent, excellent stretches here, but you have to wonder if, like you know, even during this stretch where they are five and nine over their last four teen games, like you you've gotten a little bit lucky on or you've gotten unlucky and opponent three point shooting, and so that's almost a good harbinger. And you look at their indicators for the season, they're not all like just super off. So but Clint Coppel has gone down, and even before Capella went down, it was just like Atlanta felt like they weren't doing enough to get set after they were making their own shots or when they had time to get back. And they're not twenty second in offense, so excuse me. They are twenty eight right now points allowed per possession after a make since the Clinkapela injury, and like that's just stuff that's low hanging fruit that you should be able to gobble up. And the fact that they've gotten to even league average defensively overall while being around the bottom five in FAAL rate and then they're also in the bottom ten of defensive rebounding right now, that's like that's just weird and noisy. And they do they they did force some turnovers. The fact that they don't turn the ball over themselves, that's a that's a four of defense in itself. But like they've gotten lucky on opponent three point shooting overall this season and we're seeing it starting to normalize now. Opponents are under thirty five percent from three this year under thirty four percent above the break. I don't think Atlanta is doing anything specifically that you know, we go into whether three point shooting of opponents is lucky. I tend to subscribe to that theory. And then Atlanta just overall, their location effective field goal percentage, which is where what you would expect other teams to shoot based on where you're allowing shots, is twenty fifth, and so they're not like necessarily allowing the right the right kind of shots. There's definitely the element of Clink Capella helping there. At the same time, they are twenty eight in the share of rim attempts that opponent's take. That's really disastrous. They do do a good job of limiting three pointers overall, and I think when you have the aggression of Jean Day Murray DeAndre Hunter is healthy, that is certainly that can be part of it. But I look at this team and think, what is it they need to target to turn around their season, And it's a combination of I guess three point volume and I'm boiling it down, simplifying it down. If you want to call it shooting and better shooting from Tredy Young specifically, and then just diversifying their front court rotation to where you're not relying on John Collins, who is at best a combo big or just a one position player if you consider them before, you need combo wings, combo forwards, and how do you go out and get something like that? Jake Crowder would help, but as Jake Crowder the answer, I mean, he's his three point longume would certainly juice up the offense, and he's confident in his kind of owned floater, but he's not going to solve everything there. And he's been a touch and go three pointer historically. When you look at it, could you look at getting PJ. Washington doesn't move the needle here for me, even at Kelly Bridge Junior. Charlotte's selling, and that's kind of the other issue here is there aren't a lot of sellers right now. We know that there's Houston, we know that there's San Antonio, and that's like kind of if you think about it, like Detroit could be a seller with Bunan Bogdanovitch, but they're saying they might want to keep him. We thought Indy was going to be a seller. Let's not guaranteed they're better than expected. Maybe they just extend Miles Turner. It seems like Buddy heel has been good for them, and you're you're not a team that's you can't make moves in free agency right now anyway, free agency is just so completely fucked at the moment when you look at the pool of players, you don't need extra flexibility and so can you get what Indie make a move? Yeah? Sure, but we look at them. You look at even Orlando if you're gonna paint them as a seller, and it's just kind of like, well, what do they have to sell? Gary Harris hasn't really played. Maybe some team would roll the dice on him. Would they trade Wendel Carter Junior when he's healthy? I don't know, Like maybe you get Mo Bamba, but that's not helping. None of these players I'm naming really are helping the Hawks when you have Capella there, when you have on Ko Kongu. So the dearth of sellers really hurts. And even the Spurs. I thought about, like, if you're Atlanta, it would have to be a third team. But if you can get Josh Richardson and Doug me dermott. Those are two players who help your team. Even Zach Collins with San Antono, be want to give him up there? Or do they think that he's kind of been better than John Collins to this point? So put like Josh Riginson, Zach Collins, Doug McDermott, are you even able to move John Collins for those players? And is that too low over a turn? Again, I have no idea what his value is because I would give up at least one first round pick for him, which is I guess good that I'm not in negotiations Portland. I thought it might have been a surprise seller this season, and they are. They've settled into sort of mediocrity. But I don't know that they're just gonna make Jeremy Grant available. I guess that he gets an extension before they make a trade. Houston, Eric Gordon and Jayshawn Tate. I would prefer him over kJ Martin, but maybe they don't want to go that route. But with Tarry Ewson's emergence, could you get jay Shawn Tate out of Houston? I mean, when he's healthy, that's going to help your defense not your three point volume. Eric Gordon will help with that. He is still one of the best long, long, long distance three point shooters. By the way, he's like fourth in makes outside it's twenty eight feet, so he's pulled back, but he's still really good. John Collins and Brooklyn, the Joe Harris stuff, I wouldn't I wouldn't mind it for Hawks. I'm question it for the Nets. He can work with Ben Simmons, he can work with Nick Claxton, but you're not having all three of those guys close games. And I'm not even sure that you want John Collins and Nick Claxton closing games, and so could that be sort of awkward there. But again, I don't know which team is going to trade for him, and also given Lanta players that immediately helped him, I'm looking at let's even stretch the scope. A Doug McDermott Josh Richardson trade feels like the baseline of something that would really help or Eric Gordon, Jay Shawn Tate is something that could really move the needle for them. They need to go out there and find it, though, because I don't look at this roster and think that it's going to settle itself from within. Detrey Young stuff. He's going to get better. I don't think his efficiency's going to be in the toilet forever. He's still really good by the way, he's first an assist thrown at the rim, remains one of the better passers in the game. What I will say, and what's interesting is that it does seem like his playstyle greats on his teammates, just based off reports. Then we've really even heard with a James harn Luca don Chich. We've run into issues with both players to jail brun and leave Dallas in part because of Luca Nanci. It's possible did christops Porzenkis. I don't really like it's Chris stops porzenc Is having a great year, maybe a fringe All Star, but okay, you've seen hard and butt heads with Chris. Paul didn't nessarily work out with Russell Westbrook, but like you have Dalmore continuously trying to trade for him. PJ. Tucker goes back to play with Harden and Philly out of his way to go there. By the way, so it just feels like with the locker room stuff and the clashing with coaches that some and I know Luca clashed with Rick Carlisle, so I'm not trying to get put all this on Tray Young. It does just feel like there is something weird there. The whole report about if you pulled players in the locker room they would side with Nate McMillan over Tray Young. It's a little unsettling you would get rid of Nate McMillan before you get rid of Tray Young, though I think that's pretty clear. I do also wonder, though, now that Landry Fields is in charge, how much was he aligned with Travis Schlank Cowans fas say did he have in the first place? Could he decide to take the roster in a different direction. Is he more just motivated to move Collins or whatever to maybe trying to open up the rotation and enforced with Milan to attempt at different things, or is he maybe more open to starting over Because this is kind of like, oh, I want to leave my mark. He's been there for a while, so I want to make that clear. But if he wants to make his mark lead into a new era or rebuild, would he even consider a Trey Young trade in the off season? Is he just more likely to do that than Travis Shlank is. In my point, Slank is the one who made the trade to get Trey Young in the first place, which is they should have fought out. You should have went with Luca Dantech. But it hasn't turned out to be like this catastrophic deal because of how good that Trey Young actually is at his peak, and that those are factors that come into play with all this too. And it's a tough situation. Read you would have ideally liked to I know Slank had some it's beside their personal things going on in his life. Hopefully everything is fine there. This is ideally, I would think something if you're going to what feels like a regime shift, let's not even call it a change. The probably would have wanted that over the off season, before you go through the draft, even though a J. Griffin looks like he's going to pan out, before you go through free agency, the Dejante Murray trade, extending to Andre Hunter, you would want your primary executive to still be in place after making those decisions, ideally, but now it could be up to Lander's Shields maybe decide what's happening with the coach and Trey Young. I will say these are moves that get made over the offseason, though. If you're going to move Trey Young, and I think he's really going to have to push forward because you don't just get one of the what could be in any given season one of the ten to fifteen best players in basketball, all NBA type player in his age twenty four season and just move on when you also have him under team control for three more years now. The Trey Young trades specifically, and we had a question from Rome eighty one eighty about this with the rumor that Trey will be the next player to ask out which teams should actually consider trading for him and what's the reasonable amount to give up. He's a tough fit in a lot of ways. In my opinion. He can't play off the ball, is possibly the worst defender in the NBA, doesn't seem to get along with teammates and coaches. I've actually defended his game in the past. I don't think you average thirty and ten without being a great player. But this year has really soured me on him. I get all that. I still think there's like it's almost TBD on whether he can play off the ball. But I get all those concerns. Let's start with the asking price, and that's going to be up to Atlanta if you're moving Trey Young, I think the reflexive response is to believe, oh, we're going into a rebuild. I don't know if that's guaranteed. They might look at this roster and say, well, why don't we recalibrated around de Jontay Murray. But he's also if you were going to rebuild, he's going to be a free agent in twenty four. It would make sense to just trade everybody, recool a bunch of picks, and start over from there. Again, that gets a little easier to do over the off season when there are teams that are more flexible. I don't know what call they make, and so it depends on that. If I'm Atlanta, I'm looking to rebuild, you do what Utah did when they traded Rudy Goberton don Van Mitchell. You can go the route of, well, we kind of want a young centerpiece involved, but we'll take all the picks and then either useful players or just players who are there for salary matching. And that's important. Malik Beasley's played really well this season. Walker Castle has been great, Jared Vanderbilt has given them some really good miss Kelly Olynnock has been really good. Colin Sexton has been really good. They didn't make the trade with any of those players in mind as centerpieces. Walker Castle was kind of like an extra first round add on. They did it for the picks, for the control of these drafts into the long term future. That's what you do if you're not concerned with the president. Just so happened they got maybe an All star this year and lowry marketing too. If you're Atlanta, you could look at Mitchell Gilbert and say I want something similar. Mitchell's been the better player this year. Trey would have been identify as the better player leading into this season. I think you expect ask for a similar haul. Now. If you're looking to just recalibrate the roster around de Chantey Murray, that's probably gonna eat into your pick equity. Where you're looking at teams to send you an impact player or two so that you can continue contending for tenth in the East or whatever, thinking that you have a pathway to getting better. That complicate It doesn't complicate the trade, but it would open up suitors to maybe where if they're not super pick rich, it would allow them to join the sweepstakes, but then it would also hurt a team like let's say Dallas. Dallas would be just objectively funny to see Trey and Luca on the same team, But they could after this season feasibly offer there after this season, assuming their first round picks, the Knicks conveys, they could offer a twenty twenty four first, a twenty twenty six first, a twenty twenty eight first, and then a twenty thirty first. We're talking about trading Trey Young for them. When the league calendar resets four picks plus three swaps. That is the meat and the potatoes and the dessert of their trade. They would be including salary matching after that. Maybe Josh Green and Jay and Hardy are in there, but that's the meat and potatoes of their deal. Or all those picks, they immediately get bounced from the running if the Hawks want more established impact players and so looking at these destinations, I thought about this a lot, and I didn't inticipately talking about this team in the first place, but I did on the first generation of this podcast. Would Boston give up Jaylen Brown for Trey Young. Is that something they would consider. I don't know. If Atlanta was confident they could resign Jalen Brown, I think that's something they would be interested in, pairing him with de Janty Murray and quint Cappela and Bogda Bodonovitch. I could see it. Boston. They had an historically great start to the season offensively this year, and Brown has been great, like Capslock great. But if the offense continues to fall off, or if they think they need more of a Capslock shot creator and someone to drive even the playmaking of an offense in a playoff final situation and they don't believe that's Jason Tatum, would they consider it. I wouldn't at this point. I want to make it clear if the season ended in less than palatable fashion for Boston. I'm saying, let's say they miss the conference finals and it's just it's not even pretty. I wouldn't predict that, but maybe that's when they enter the fold. Brooklyn just doesn't have the juice to get him, and I don't think they need him. Charlotte really doesn't have the juice to get him, which is unfortunate because they're fucking terrible. I don't know why you'd want to pair him with Lamello anyway, Chicago. I guess if Atlanta really liked something built around Zach Lavine and Patrick Williams and stuff. But at that point, if you're Chicago, what you're pairing tred Young with Damarta Rosen and then resigning Booch and like that's your team moving forward? So no, Cleveland, he doesn't need him. I mentioned Dallas again. They could trade when the league counter sets four first round picks, presumably in three swaps us to get your attention a little bit. If you're Atlanta, the absence of, oh, we're getting back other good players in the process that we really like. Do you want Kliba At that point, when he's coming back from injury, which sounds like he based on the surgery timeline, he's probably not gonna be back until May, which could be the end of the year, would they give up Dorian's Phinney Smith and all those picks. I think you need Dorian Phinney Smith to kind of insulate Trey and Luca, even defensively. But if you're going the picks route, yeah, Dallas gets involved Denver is an interesting thought exercise depending on how this season ends. Could you build something around Jamal Murray? I wouldn't. The two man game between Yoki and Jamal Murray is just divine, and so don't take the ball out of Yoka's hands when you have someone in Murray who you know can work off him. Detroit, if they put jay Nivy on the table, they just don't have enough extra picks, and it's like that would be that they would have to go jay Nivy and picks and that would be the full blown building mode move for the Hawks. And I don't know that you think you're good enough and even have the sample size with Kid Cunningham who's going to be out for the year himself, to be like, oh, we're that good, let's push our chips all in on. What we don't know is even like any pairing when you're getting a megastar could technically be combustible, you feel more confident in making it. Let's say, if you're Cleveland and you're coming off a standout year and your process has been accelerated, Detroit says, not Golden State. I thought about because look at the end of the season, Jordan Pools, the money kicks in build something around Jordan Pool Jonathan cominga mo? Was this movie in Future Picks beginning in twenty twenty six? And later? Does that catch at Lana's I And you might just say, well, why would you have Trey and Steph play together? I will say yes, put Steph can play off anyone. And how much worse is Trey defensively than Jordan Pool? I mean size wise, Jordan Pools is going to be bigger. So there's that. But I wouldn't hate it. I wouldn't hate it. If that's the move for Golden State, I would be interested to see it. They wouldn't be one of my favorite destinations. Houston Semi interesting, But like, what are you giving up? You have all these future Picks hodgepodge of players that you could send out, But are you saying, Okay, Jabari Smith Junior and jail and Green are untouchable in this or you won't to give up one of those guys for Trey Young. And if you don't have to give one of them up, how many picks is this costing you? And then Trey Young, Jabari Smith Junior, and Jalen Green. It just feels like you're trying to push your timeline too quickly in that regard and it could end up blowing up in your face, where by the time maybe you already to win. Trey has eyes for another team, but they have the equity to get involved. And if you're able to keep two of Eason Green and Jabari Smith Junior and move and I guess Shanegon if you want to throw it that way, the Shanegoon Tray Young defensive lineups would be horrific. But maybe, but I just I don't know. They could certainly use someone to drive the offense as a point guard, and I don't think that's kpj or Jalen Green, but can Jalen Jalen Green could work off Trey Young. But you want to bring in someone so ball dominant when you haven't fully explored when you're probably not even maximizing Shan Whon as it is, and when you haven't fully explored Jabari Smith's offensive game. Indiana's a no with Albert and the Clippers just don't have the equity the Lakers we could they have after this season. They can offer some picks that go out a little bit further, But two picks and three swaps. Let's say what they could get to. Plus they'll have cap space so like and a small salary that it's just it's not happening Lakers fans. Tray could ask for a trade of Lakers. It's not happening Memphis with Jaws and no Miami. I initially thought it was a no, but Bam and Jimmy Butler with Trey so he's insulated defensively there, and then they have Yovich and after this season, it gets interesting with the picks that they could offer. I mean, it's kind of interesting now, but they owe that twenty twenty five first to Okase. Let's just say they can unprotect that and Okayse's willing to work with them. You can offer after the draft, so you would offer the twenty twenty three player that you actually draft, a twenty twenty four swap, a twenty twenty six swap, a twenty twenty seven pick, a twenty twenty eight swap, a twenty twenty nine pick, and a twenty thirty swap, And so you can effectively offer if we're just gonna include the twenty twenty three pick in here, but you're moving it again. Once the calendar resets, you can trade three first round picks and four swaps. You have Yovich then and you have Tyler hero Is there a deal there to be made? Even if you think that I'm wrong about the pick numbers, but twenty three, twenty seven, and twenty nine is three. You can swap in twenty four, twenty six, twenty eight, and twenty thirty again once the league calendar resets. So three picks, four swaps, Tyler Heroes twenty seven million dollars salary next season to play around with. Does that I mean if you're given the full pick boat and I'm probably trying to get Duncan Robinson off that deal, so you get to keep Kyle Lowry with Trey Young. You can also use Kyle Lowry as the primary salary ballast there. Does Atlanta think he'll stay for a year and that he kind of helps them remain competitive? They could look at it that way. But I wouldn't mind playing Lowry with Trey Young. It's an undersized backhoor but I think it could work. So you also, if you need to get to the rest of the money to bring in Trey young salary, there's Duncan Amason. We talked about Dwayne Deadman. You could throw that in there, or maybe even Kayla Martin's on the table. That's a player who's just super useful. I wouldn't I Miami feels like a Trey Young sleeper. I'm not gonna maybe they're more obvious to some people than me, but that's the team that I'm almost in love with now. The idea of it. Let's see with Trey clash with Jimmy Butler, who needs the ball in his hands, and bam who's been a monster this season. The Heat are very malleable, and so are their stars Butler, Lowry, bam Adebayo. I just wouldn't ruled out Milwaukee's and no Minnesota. People have talked about the karl Anthy Towns or Trey Young challenge trade. I don't know if Atlanta does that, because then you're recalibrating your team around Capella and Cat and Deshonte Mary. I'm assuming you trade John Collins is part of that deal. You would have to make more moves in the front court, and Minnesota's is not going to have extra picks to give you if they were willing to give you. Jane McDaniels like, maybe that makes it more palatable, but I do think Trey has exponentially more value than Karl Anthony Towns, who cannot be moved to this summer. By the way, the Pelicans know that. I just I don't want to see them invest in a point guard who's not if it was an A plus plus plus defender point guard. But you have Zion and CJ. McCollum and Brandon Ingram, I just don't think you need to go that route. The Nicks, yeah, they'd be involved. I've wondered whether their assets are sexy enough. The conditional first round picks from Detroit and Washington I think sound better in theory than practice. They've also look Iq was playing really well right now. I think Obi before his injury and he was going through kind of a rough patch, but he showed that he could hit the three ball. Those guys are approaching approaching extension eligibility, and that's going to make them less valuable to their new teams. RJ. Barrett, is he more valuable on his new deal to a team like the Hawks. That would be the big one here. I think RJ. Barrett of Quentin Grimes are your single most valuable trade assets still if you're going the megastar route, I don't I don't know the answer to who it is, to be honest, Quentin Grimes is two years left on his rookie scale and might have some off the bounce stuff in addition to lacious defense. Deuce McBride not in this conversation, but he's definitely up his trade value based off what he's done since getting some more playing time. I think the big factor here would be, aside from the Hawks's direction, because the matching money going out, if it's RJ. Barrett, it really does help you. So how many picks would you be willing to attach to him if you're the Knicks, I mean, if it's not RJ. Barrett, like you're really going the super duper pick route with just some of your prospects, and you weren't willing to do that for Donovan Mitchell, who's a cleaner fit next to Jalen Brunson then Trey Young. Would Jalen Brunson be a part of that trade? How much does that impact the pick equity that you're sending out. It depends on Atlanta's aim. I think the biggest question though, is how does Atlanta view the Knicks picks, And with the Donovan Mitchell trade, it was said, well, get the distant Knicks picks, you should short the next future. That's always been the smart play. When you look at where they're at now, they're not going to get worse with Trey Young. And I think there were more questions about this roster because of what happened last season, even after acquiring Jalen Brunson than there are now after seeing it in practice, seeing them lean into more playing time for the guys that should be playing, getting away from Fournier, getting away from Rose, etc. Etc. Even experimenting with the Jericho since Julius Randall Isaiah Hartenstein front court. I don't know, like why you would believe that their picks are going to suck when they're getting Trey Young and if they have if they get to keep because they're not given up both if they have Jalen Brunson and or RJ. Barrett still there after the fact, I don't know that their distant picks are going to seem as valuable as they might for other teams, maybe just because they're the Nicks and they're viewed as combustible on the outside. I think they would be in this trade. I think the cost of getting Trey young and less Atlanta is in love with RJ. Barrett might be higher than people are expecting because the Knicks and this is a compliment. I do think their future first round equity is almost declined in value a little bit their own picks, is what I'm saying. Perhaps I'm wrong there, Okay, see one of my favorites here for that they can't do anything until the summer when they have cap space, just because they're not if they really wanted to. Yeah, you go lue Dort, Chet Homegren right now. You're not doing that. You're not trading Chet or Schee Gillers Alexander. You make them off limits in a trade Young trade otherwise. I don't really know what the appeal would be. Do you make lu Dort off limits? I think Atlanta's gonna want him, and I don't think you should rule it out. I think Trey would be very insulated defensively long term here between the way that Shay's played this season, Ludorf could still be here, Chet Holmegrin coming back, is Josh Giddy still around? I think he's probably your primary. He's played well this season, and he's played better off of Shay and has made me appreciate his game more. I thought he was a very unflexible, like inflexible player looking at his offense. So he's impressed me there. But Ushman Jang, Jay Dubb, even Jeremiah Robinson, Earl, even Poke Chevsky, if they keep him, they have a lot of disruptive, disruptive defenders or defensive projects product like I think Jay Dubb is gonna wind up being an incredible defender by next season. Even Ushman Jang rest in peace to his wrists. I mean, he didn't lose his wrist, But could we get him like a some sturdier risk there, please, so you could very much inoculate Trey defensively. You have all these picks. If Atlanta is looking to go the rebuilding route, I think, okayc makes a lot of sense, and you start with Giddy and you flushed out from that because you could go with the cap space. They have Giddy, a couple of small salaries and you're there. Now, does Atlanta want lou Dort That's a different discussion. I think that impacts the pick equity here they're going up, but they would be a fun destination. Orlando is a team that people have mentioned, and I think it makes sense. What are you giving up who's untouchable, Palo Bank Caro and are you putting Franz Wagner off limits in that deal? I probably would just because of the picks that it's going to cost me. I want trade coming in and playing with Palo and Franz Wagner. Jalen Suggs is not off the table. The question becomes how much is Jalen Suggs worth in this trade? And the answer is I don't know. I view Jalen Suggs before his injury. You know, you want to monitor the ankle. I felt like people were too low on him still, but he's going to be viewed. I would argue highly internally throughout Orlando and trade talks, but not if you're a team like Atlanta. What does it cost if you're going the picks salary Jalen Suggs and they could have Chumokk, they could have I mean r J hands will be off the books by then. You don't quibble over including Cole Anthony if you still have Mobamba even if they want Wendell Carter Junior, don't know why they would, he's really good. If they want Mark el Foltz, his salary next year is non guaranteed. Same with Jonathan Isaac. They could if you want to make the money work, and Atlanta's just looking for flexibility moving forward. Atlanta's a good partner, but it's if Suggs is the primary tangible centerpiece going out. What else is involved? How many picks you have all your own? So this year's pick is good, You have that Chicago pick this year, so those two first, if you're want to give those up, that might be a good baseline with Jalon Suggs to ensure that you don't have to eat into the Franz Wagner being there because you're not trading Palo. I just think that franz Wagner, who's been really good, is someone Atlanta would would push for there Philadelphia, no Phoenix. I thought about it, because Devin Booker can work off anyone. He's just absolutely spectacular. But would you be willing to say, all right, well CP three is we think he's done, or we're gonna move him in this deal and send him, send him to Atlanta, and then the what if becomes what if Atlanta drafted CP three comes to fruition eighty years later? That would be pretty callous of them. They could they have all their own picks, but you're probably looking at you need Atlanta to be in love with Deandreton, which touchy proposition because they have Capella on Yako Kongwu and even John Collins there still, And then it's are you giving up Michael Bridges. You can get to the money if you're gonna include CP three, But yeah, it's it would be interesting. I would say the defense with Booker and Young would be rough, but Booker's improved, And like I said, I don't worry about Booker playing off anyone Portland's and oh with Dame Sacramento, if you want to build something around Daron Fox, I just don't know. The vibes are good there. I guess if you wanted to level up a little bit, reunite Trey Young with Kevin Hurder and you could unprotect the pick that you owe them in twenty four to open up your packages. But Sabonus and Trey Young and then Kevin Hurder is still there. You're giving up Keegan Murray and that deal, you're resigning Harrison Barnes. He's an free agent this summer, so he wouldn't be a part of an offseason trade. I don't know. The Spurs not really their player and they're just so early into their Toronto. Yes, trade doesn't fit Projects six nine. But if you get to keep, you keep Pascal, and then you say we're keeping one of an Anobi or Scotty Barnes and then so it's Trey Anobi or Scotty Barnes and Siakam and you're flushing out your team from there. And yeah, Fred van Fleet maybe is a part of that deal. It would help the Raptors if it was part of this season, or maybe it's a sign and trade over the summer, because maybe Atlanta wants to remain competitive. Pair him with Murray and Capella and DeAndre Houre, like that's an infrastructure that works. And if you were to make the trade this season, like you could include Gary Trent Junior is part of this. I would give up I would give up og or Barnes for Tray. I wouldn't give up both, and so you'd go one of them. And I think I've changed. I'm not lower on Scotty Barnes a long term but samson Folk mentioned this. I'm Sam Bossini's podcasts at the Athletic. I feel like sometimes we overcomplicate trades for superstars, where it's if Toronto could have traded Scotty Barnes for Kevin Durant in hindsight, they should have done it. I don't believe for a second that it was just the Scottie Barnes hang up. But I would say the same thing here. At this point, you can make a case that it's they're less likely to take that route. If it's Trey, then it would be Kevin Durant. But I would give up one of that Anobi or Barnes I think for Trey Young, and then you have the other one who don't trade with Siakam build out your roster from there. It precious that Chew is probably not part of the package you're going to. I would say salary plus Barnes or an Anobi and then Picks is how you're building building out the package, and it would it would help you even more. I don't know that you have to give up as much if Fred van Fleet is tradeable, like if they actually want Fred van Fleet, and if Atlanta wants to compete, they might trade in Utah not so much. I think, like, yeah, he beat Upgrade over Mike Conley or Join Clarkson or Collin Sexton. But are you're cashing in your picks for Trey Young and Atlanta is probably gonna want Beasley and or marketing is part of that deal, So that's just the No. Washington will probably fancy themselves Tray Young suitors, but unless they convey that twenty twenty three pick to the Knicks, I don't see them having the juice to get there. And Trey and Bradley but I think they could work, but I just don't know. I think other packages would be more attractive. My favorites if you want me to ask for my five or six favorites, because there are a few of their experimental that I think i'd like. My flat out favorites would be I love Miami all of a sudden I taught myself in Miami. I love Toronto, I love Okay See, I love Orlando. Those are the four that I love and think that they could cobble together. Might be different types of packages, and most of them are better suited over the offseason, except Toronto could offer a better one now, and I also would Boston is an interesting exercise, not one of my favorites though, just Dallas being in Andre would be hysterical. So I throw those two just sort of tangentially into it. And those are just the six teams that I sort of I and I don't think there's another one that I'm forgetting that I'm in love with. It's really good New York so and I would like New York more than Boston just because I don't want to mess with with Boston has So it would be Dallas and New York is sort of just I don't they would be in I don't know if it's the best possible course for either of them, but I don't. I would want to see it, is my point, even if it's a car crash theory, and just by virtue of what did the Knicks have to pay to get Trey Young, who is hated by the fan base but would be immediately loved if he's traded there, And then I mean, if I was going to really experimental Golden State. But New York and Dallas are in the one tier for me and in the tier of my own if what I just would actually really like to see teams that could go after Trey Young if you move him, which I don't know the Hawks do, would be Miami, Orlando, okay See, and Toronto. Speaking of Orlando, they've been on a tear and I wanted to talk about them. They've won seven of their last eight. Is it sustainable? They've done it without Jalen Suggs, without Wendell Carter. Junior chumok Okak's injured. Also, so is who else are they missing right now? Markov Foltz has been back for a while. He's that's been a big We have to get into that, Like, I feel like him managing the game for them when you go back and watch has been huge. Oh, Gary Harris and the hamstring, and then of course John and Isaac that was the name that I was misremembering there. I'm not heard by any of this happening without jam and Suggs. I just want to see him be able to play healthy with a full strength Orlando backcourt, because I think that if you have faults, or if you even have kol Anthony playing the way he is, they're not just a polo and Franz, it really helps streamline the game for him. We just haven't seen enough of long stretches with that, so I don't think he comes. Maybe he disrupts some of what's happening. Orlando is seventh in offense and seventh in defense during this time. They're not doing necessarily anything too spectacular on offense. They're doing a good job on the offensive glass, they're getting in the foul line a ton not appreciated enough part of Palo Bankara or Franz Wagner's game. Quite frankly, you look at both of them, but especially Pallo. The zero step speed where from any angle back to the basket, left side, strong side, basically he doesn't need to be above the break to even get that head of steam is really like he can just get by guys, and he is such a physical force around the basket. It's just been a joy to watch, and he's the clear Rookie of the year front runner. There might be there are impact metrics that actually like Walker Canceler better. It's Palo owners is not even close this year. He's been on fire during this stretch. Twenty two points, shooting forty two point one percent from three on nearly five attempts per game. Still making some issues with ball control as a passer, but he's going to be just, I would say, in a minus passer at his peak at minimum. Is just sort of where I'm at with him. He, like Franz Artner last year, has been better defensively than I thought. Orlando's rim defense during this stretch and for the season has been wonky, but I've actually liked like some of the help or the contests around the basket that we've seen from Franz and Palo Bank Carol specifically, and you're looking at beyond those two, Orlando seems to have found something with Cole Anthony off the bench. He is it's just during this stretch, but he has been and for more like more of the season, he's just been a steadying force off the bench, and not just as a score. He's hitting. He has an effective field goal percentage of sixty three plus on his off the dribble jumpers over the last eight games. That's huge, but he's also been like it's really good driver, not talking just as a score. He's shooting sixty percent on his drives over the last eight games. But he's also has an assist rate of seventeen. He's reaked havoc and been able to capitalize on it when he's journeying inside the arc. And you look at all the players during the stretch who have finished fifty drives. The only other players to have an assist rate as high Mike Conley, Russell Westbrook and Lebron. And yes, that's a compliment with Russ being in there, given the way that he's played off the bench for LA. If that's something new, that's not new, but if that's a level they've tapped into with coll Anthony, who's always seemed like a natural fit off the bench, that is huge for them. Also huge, Oh, we're just gonna throw Keevan Harris on these really tough defensive covers and he's gonna hit some of his threes too while he's on the core, or we have Admiral Schofield, like he's not really supposed to be playing, but he's gonna come. He's hit some of his threes and he's been good on the glass for them. Also huge pull bowl not been great defensively, and that I think it has a lot to do with just his body frame, but his offensive archetype is formless and the best possible way going through sort of a you know, slump with with with his three pointer. But that's another guy that they have who just really levels up their depth and the way that they're able to attack on offense. Even Mo Bamba has had some good minutes during these stretches. His straight up rim protection numbers have been fine, which is good, but again, Orlando's rim defense is just so wild. I think some of it is they're failing more often too, which hasn't helped them. So when they're getting guys are getting in the basket, it feels like they are overreacting. But having Mo Bamba, that's like you are also just absolutely stacked in the front court. And this is you know, they are good in a way where right now where it makes me feel like have they tapped into something seeing Mark phill folks being able to manage the game for them once they're at full strength with with sugs and Wendell Carter Junior, forget Jarry Harris and Jonathan Isaac, have they tapped into something that might get them to the play in tournament now or even the playoffs, but the play in tournament, I mean it's not. They have one of the worst records than the E says I'm recording this. They are I think in third to last in the East. That doesn't that doesn't really mean anything right now. They are only three games, three losses back of the plan. And so you look at Washington, Chicago, Toronto, Atlanta, Indiana teams in front of them. Those are all squads that I think have pullback potential. Whether it's by design or if it's Washington, Chicago and maybe even Toronto a little bit waiting for them to implode. I don't know the answer to that, and I would refrain from we have a couple of magic questions I want to get to. I would refrain from going by high right now. I would look at the Tredy Young situation for sure over the offseason. But could you do something medium sized here if you were able to get at Gary Trent Junior out of Toronto, but like Mobamba and if Gary Harris was healthy or Mobamba and Chumo OKK four Gary Trent Junior, which you're gonna have cap space and maybe you don't want them with him headed towards free agency, would you consider it? That's something that I think could really help juice up their machine there. Illuminato asked, if you were the Magic, would you look to trade Mobamba before the deadline? Considering there could be a five ourselves teams racing to the bottom. What would be a reasonable haul for him in Orlando's position? I don't know. I mean, like the one I just sort of outlined is could you get that from Toronto? I don't think you're getting a first round pick for him, But if someone who in theory gives you let's say stock still stand still, straight up rim protection plus some floor spacing, I think that that would be valuable to some teams. Could Charlotte talk themselves into giving up something for him? I don't think a lot of teams might be interested in him as a backup if you were to get into the you know you're not gonna get anything major from Boston or even Sacramento, who kind of use a different look at the at the big Man spot san Antonio that they're just not going to give up a ton of value for him. So I don't know what the value is, but I think you're looking to get a rotation player in exchange for him, and then maybe a good second or two good rotation players or just someone who's a you know, Gary Trent Junior outstay. He's on the higher end of the rotation player spectrum there, and so is that someone that you could look at the Pelicans they don't. I don't really think they have anyone that's gonna interest Orlando. I think you targets him was going to be part of your rotation just because you can't expect the first round pick would be my gut and if not, if that's what you if you can't get that, or if you can't put them into a package that gets you that you wait until the summer, guarantee a salary. Maybe you use them as an interesting salary matching tool. But I think you could make the case, yeah, look at it, because you have when Michael Carter's and you're healthy him Palo Bank Caro bull ball now, but Jonathan Isaac's not healthy. I don't know if this log gym is as crowded as we make it out to be or some of the national media make it out to be. It can work with mobamb but just just being there and they've gotten good minutes out of you know, that new starting lineup that has the Wagner's and bull Ball and Palo in it it's a minus three. I think over this stretch in total, that's good for me. When you're going up against opposing starting units, that's actually a big deal in my opinion. So being able to have the starters hold their own and the way that this team has set itself up on defense where no, they're not perfect, but they're getting back and you can see really the effort there, and you're looking at the pressure that they are putting on opposing offenses to where they're forcing them to go through multiple options and explore different levels of the shot clock when they're you know, when they're taking those opportunities. I think that really has helped out their defensive returns. They've gotten lucky on opponent three point shooting. Of course during the stretch opponents are under thirty two percent, but there, I think there's a foundation here and I would finish it up like this, Orlando could be like a small buyer at the trade deadline. But that's not how I want to frame this. It's if I had to say that Orlando, can Orlando be better than two of Chicago, Toronto, Washington, And if you want to throw Atlanta, Indiana in there. I think yes, and that's like kind of widening the field. But I think this season there's a chance the Magic end up being better than the Washington and Chicago specifically, and not just because those teams might tear it down. And if you can get into the plan and the returns are encouraging, you look over the offseason. If trail is available, you look at what can we upgrade this roster? Are you? You're kind of like the Calves then of last season, not quite as good maybe by record alone. Put your outlook. You have guys in play who are young but ready to go now, and you have assets to burn. If someone like Trey Young becomes available who profiles as a filthy fit, you go after it. That's how good the Magic are. And if we all knew, I think collectively, especially if we listen to this podcast, that their future was bright. But it feels like the swiftness with which they actually might arrive is going to be even faster than we could have projected here After this stretch, I don't want to read too much into the eight games. We need to see how they reincorporate sugs and Wendel Carter Junior in all this, but I find those guys as two useful players, Wendel Carter Junior more immediately, and if they come in and disrupt it, like you can look at moving them if you need to shake up the front court for real, Wendel Carter Junior is gonna have a lot of trade value. I just don't think you need to move him. I don't think I think Stugs is gonna be real good. We'll actually be a great fit for this team. Just plug him into the starting five when he's back. I want to see him with Faults and Palo and Frons Moore, and I want to see him, you know, can you run some bench shoots with him and Coolanthony together? This team has found something that's in itself in addition to depth, like yeah, okay, getting good minutes from O Wagner. Do you expect that to continue? How much is Keevan Harris really going to play? Same w Schofield? But to have those deaf pieces on your team is monstrous and it opens different avenues for you. And so I'll close it up just by reiterating, I'm just going to predict that they will be better than two of the Bulls, Wizards, Hawks, Raptors, or Pacers this season. That doesn't guarantee them a playing spot, but I think that we have yet to see where they're going to peak in the standings this year. And if they design a controlled demolition because someone gets injured, or they decide they want to jack up their own lottery odds, okay, fine, but that's where I'm at with the Magic because I think there is something here that they're going to continue to build upon throughout the season. I hope you enjoyed this podcast, not as long as the first attempt. I recorded a short change, the Trey Young's discussion a little bit, and the Magic discussion. I hope you stuck with me anyway. Please reminisc subscribe wherever you're consuming us to tell people about us. I'll brust you continue to build this community, and until next time, I need be shout out to one the only legendary my heartbeat, Frank Milkina