1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:06,559 You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio 2 00:00:06,799 --> 00:00:33,880 in the UK and around the world. Welcome to the Paranormal Pendel Podcast and 3 00:00:34,039 --> 00:00:37,280 coming to you from the heart of Pendel, which country in the northwest of 4 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,240 England. My name is Craig Bryant, author, the investigator and collector of 5 00:00:42,359 --> 00:00:47,200 stories. To join me as we take a journey into the paranormal, UFO 6 00:00:47,359 --> 00:01:00,280 sightings, cryptozoology and big casts. This is the Paranormal Pendel Podcast. Welcome 7 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:07,040 to episode thirty nine of Paranormal PANDUL, broadcasting to the Paranormal UK Network at 8 00:01:07,079 --> 00:01:11,879 pa UK radio dot com. So my guests on this episode, and that's 9 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:18,760 guests as in plural, So I've got two guests on this episode. Returning 10 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,599 guest is Lee Nicholson, who think if I remember rightly, Lee, you 11 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:27,719 were my second ever guest, yeah, going back quite a few well well 12 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,040 over a year now I think. And David Cayton. David, welcome, 13 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,719 first time guest on the podcast. Yes, very nice to be here. 14 00:01:36,879 --> 00:01:41,239 Great, Thank you God, thank you thanks for coming on. As you're 15 00:01:41,359 --> 00:01:44,920 the new guest, David, would it be possible for you just to sort 16 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:47,400 of tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your background 17 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:53,400 and your interests. Yes, okay, Well, obviously some events in Cyprus 18 00:01:53,439 --> 00:01:57,879 whenas in the RAF I was surf for ten years, but I spent two 19 00:01:57,879 --> 00:02:04,799 and a half years of that in Cyprus the Joint Airy Connerssence Intelligence Center Middle 20 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:14,919 East place called Episcopy not far from Limosol, and I was a photographer and 21 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:22,520 for a spell we had to have a photographer up on the Tudos Mount Olympus 22 00:02:22,599 --> 00:02:30,479 radar site to photograph the screens because we're tinking around with some then secrets over 23 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:38,680 the horizon radar and a UFO event took place. It wasn't me up there 24 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,080 at that time. It was a colleague of mine, Barry Porter, who 25 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:50,120 was now deceased sadly, who witnessed or carry on and took his camera in 26 00:02:50,159 --> 00:02:54,039 the in the raidar room expecting to photograph. To think, anyway, that's 27 00:02:54,080 --> 00:03:02,719 another story in its own married to be married for forty three years. I 28 00:03:02,759 --> 00:03:13,800 think, three daughters, seven grandchildren ranged from three to or two and a 29 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:23,719 half to twelve. Right I worked for I left the Air Force in nineteen 30 00:03:23,039 --> 00:03:31,400 sixty five. I joined British Air Space was then in Chaddoton and then we 31 00:03:31,439 --> 00:03:39,400 moved to the Woodford Planet. Later on in the Engineering research department in the 32 00:03:39,439 --> 00:03:43,520 Air Force one. In my last post thing, I was lucky enough to 33 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:54,520 get involved in non destructive testing, which involves using radiography, an ultrasound and 34 00:03:54,639 --> 00:04:00,840 other methods to find cracks and crows and and aircraft structures oponents. So I 35 00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:05,400 did this radiographic course. Was one or two other photographers that were that desperate 36 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:11,520 because it was a new thing progressing very fast. When I was demolved, 37 00:04:12,919 --> 00:04:16,279 I applied for photographic work but there wasn't a thing available, but they realized 38 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:21,879 from my CV from the Air Force but this radiography thing, so I was 39 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:31,839 employed in the laboratory doing X ray work and that progressed and after three years, 40 00:04:31,879 --> 00:04:39,240 I think nineteen seventy thereabouts, our boss decided to leave the company and 41 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:46,839 form his own private NDT company and because of a certain ministry a CEA approvals 42 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:53,199 are taken in these practices. The meantime, I was promoted to head of 43 00:04:53,240 --> 00:05:00,839 the NDT, which I did for twenty odd years twenty two years retirement in 44 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:09,800 nineteen ninety three. And because of my interests from way back in nineteen fifty 45 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:16,920 eight of the UFO stuff. I approached Quest International and spoke to Tony Dodd, 46 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:25,279 who was then the director of Research and Investigations, if you wanted an 47 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:30,360 investigator for the greater Manchester area. I sent him a bit of a CV 48 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:31,680 thing and he said, oh, yes please, and I was signed up 49 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:39,160 in no time. So that's that's where your your interest in UFOs stems from? 50 00:05:39,199 --> 00:05:43,399 Then, is it going back to the to the nineteen fifties, Yeah, 51 00:05:43,519 --> 00:05:47,399 fifty eight, it was right. I had minded before that. I 52 00:05:47,519 --> 00:05:55,480 was believed that we couldn't be alone. So sorry, what was the What 53 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,879 was the incident then, David? That sort of set all this off right? 54 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,680 Well, this is August fifty eight, about six o'clock in the morning. 55 00:06:06,639 --> 00:06:12,399 Barry realized some commotion going on the radar room and went in with this 56 00:06:12,519 --> 00:06:17,720 camera under ready, and I found that they had this objects on radar which 57 00:06:17,759 --> 00:06:27,040 had come up from Alexandra in a Cairo direction, heading northwards, roughly speaking, 58 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,160 across the Mead, and he was doing about eight thousand miles an hour, 59 00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:38,199 which is pretty fast for ninety fifty eight, let's face it. Anyway, 60 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:44,600 it did an abrupt ninety degree turn northwest back more close to the coast 61 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:50,279 of Cyprus, the west coast of Cyprus. It was also on radar in 62 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:58,160 Libya a place called l Adam, which we used to have as a base 63 00:06:58,439 --> 00:07:03,920 post the war too, and it was also on radar R f Luka in 64 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,800 Malta right down to the end of the mats, so it must have been 65 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:13,639 a pretty big object. Anyway, we scrambled two q R A that's quick 66 00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:23,319 reaction Alert hawker hunters spiders from headquarters at Nikosia who dispatched to intercept this object, 67 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:30,439 which was a thirty eight thousand feet altitude at the time. And then 68 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,040 as the two jets approach, well, it stopped dead, stopped moving in 69 00:07:35,079 --> 00:07:43,680 an instant and when it made a move that turn must have pulled thirty odd 70 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:48,480 Jesus would think, if not more. And then it jumped immediately to sixty 71 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:55,120 thousand feet in a flash of a second, and they hunted aircraft couldn't achieve 72 00:07:55,199 --> 00:08:00,920 the altitude back then, but they were sent back to base. Then proceeded 73 00:08:01,759 --> 00:08:07,839 westwards, went across the fourteen miles of ocean towards Turkey, and increased his 74 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:15,120 speed to eighteen thousand miles an hour gather eighteen thousand miles an hour, and 75 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:24,839 it went over Turkey to the what's it see well, heading towards Soviet Russia 76 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:30,480 generally speaking and events your radar. Now, about eight o'clock that morning, 77 00:08:31,399 --> 00:08:35,679 a wind commander which I was quite a rank it drove up the tortuous mountain 78 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:43,279 road from Nicassia, aligned everyone up, including Barry, and reminded them you 79 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:48,360 all signed official secrets lads, so you don't mention this to anybody, especially 80 00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:54,519 the media. So I thought, considering that this demo day of pooh pooed 81 00:08:54,519 --> 00:08:58,440 it all and say no defends significance and all that jazz according to Nick Pope 82 00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:05,600 because we didn't know about Nip Pope in nineteen fifty eight, but years later, 83 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,720 I thought, if there was nothing too it, why did he just 84 00:09:07,799 --> 00:09:16,080 pack this wink amander to warn off all the witnesses at the Trudos Radar bet 85 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:22,759 site, and I presume similarly to the radar people in Malta and Libya would 86 00:09:22,799 --> 00:09:30,960 also be warned off. So that was that. But the day before I'll 87 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,200 just throw this one in. Unbeknown to me at the time, I've only 88 00:09:33,279 --> 00:09:39,639 known more recently because the guy who was retired as a group captain and right 89 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:46,879 some rent of course lying one of our as a scrubb leader. Then one 90 00:09:46,919 --> 00:09:56,559 of our Avro shackleton's around Cyprus. He was based in Malta Luca and he 91 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,720 done instinct of going around the coast of Cyprus looking for Excipriot gunboats bringing in 92 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,000 arms in for the Yoka terrorists, which was going on at the time. 93 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:07,919 And then they were flying back to their mead. They picked up they went 94 00:10:07,919 --> 00:10:13,720 to Arkachery picked up the ground crew. So I had sixteen people aboard crammed 95 00:10:13,759 --> 00:10:18,639 in there in the shackleton, which is looked like an upgraded Lancaster Ford. 96 00:10:18,639 --> 00:10:22,960 Hear that sort of thing, four engine prop aircraft and they're just off crete. 97 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,759 Is now I'm getting down time. Anyway, some of the people noticed 98 00:10:28,799 --> 00:10:33,919 there was an object on my left on the port wing with a red light. 99 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,480 You say so, they thought, But some of the aircraft and realize 100 00:10:39,919 --> 00:10:43,639 if it's on the port, they should be looking at a green light on 101 00:10:43,799 --> 00:10:52,360 aircraft wings the starboards green port is red. Anyway, it was following the 102 00:10:52,399 --> 00:10:56,639 aircraft of their speed. Probably only do it, I don't know, two 103 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:01,360 hundred and one miles and are not much more about twelve thousand feet or something 104 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:09,240 that wasn't pressurized, so the captain couldn't see it from his patch to see 105 00:11:09,279 --> 00:11:11,840 because of the wing and the engines. So on the top of the shack 106 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,519 there's an observation dome in the middle of the fusal horde which used to be 107 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:22,279 a gun to it on lancasterdays. And he ordered every man to go up 108 00:11:22,639 --> 00:11:28,759 and climb up into this observation thing, and he wanted everyone to witness it. 109 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:37,279 And then what he did. Then he dived to shackleton and then pulled 110 00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:41,279 the stick back suddenly, so suddenly lost a lot of speed, and he 111 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,360 managed to get behind the objects short a few seconds, but long enough to 112 00:11:46,399 --> 00:11:52,360 see this was a cylindrical thing with the red light on the nose, which 113 00:11:52,759 --> 00:11:58,120 was about thirty feet long by twelve foot diameter to the estimate. And as 114 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,879 soon as he did that, it jumped back to the same position on its 115 00:12:01,919 --> 00:12:11,399 port wing. So he radioed forward to on the secret NATO frequency to Malta 116 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:22,799 and they scrambled to Javelins Javelin aircraft nineteen septor Javelins lost the Javelins to come 117 00:12:22,879 --> 00:12:26,600 and catch up with him down the middle of the mead, and as the 118 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:31,559 javelins approach at higher altar should apparently they could see this object to the office 119 00:12:31,639 --> 00:12:37,600 wing and as they come down to close on aircraft, is shot up vertically 120 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:43,440 in a flash in a way. Why when they all got back to Luca, 121 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:50,679 every man was individually interviewed by men in gray suits. I'm told not 122 00:12:50,759 --> 00:12:54,679 to button, let them not mention it. So within four jurs was two 123 00:12:54,720 --> 00:13:03,360 major events. I'll never know whether that's object. It was seen on radar 124 00:13:03,639 --> 00:13:09,000 Luca, but I don't know whether they found it in Cyprus radar. But 125 00:13:09,039 --> 00:13:16,360 anyway, Yeah, lots of those two objects doing peculiar things. Yeah, 126 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,080 I was going to say that the way that they were behaving, certainly the 127 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,240 first one that you described, that's your sort of classic maneuvering, isn't it. 128 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,240 Yes, Yes, whether they sort of stopping on a on a sixpence 129 00:13:28,279 --> 00:13:35,840 and they're turning at forty five degrees and high acceleration beyond many that you know 130 00:13:35,919 --> 00:13:39,720 we have. I said, wait, I'm talking about human beings, not 131 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:45,679 not the RAF. But yeah, I mean that that is really quite interesting. 132 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,240 I mean, have you heard of those two stories late? I'm conscious 133 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,559 that you've been set in the background, just listening away and that's fine. 134 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,600 Well, of course, yeah, I mean I've heard them from David actually, 135 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,600 but I think I think one of the was documented in the magazine Years 136 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:07,840 Obama, right, David US magazine Probably I'm Shackleton case maybe, But they're 137 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,600 very impressive. I mean, nowadays they call them up observables, aren't they. 138 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:20,000 But yes, classic performers characteristics. Yeah, and you mentioned David about 139 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,279 Nick Pop. I'm just wondering whether whether you knew him, whether you'd ever 140 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:30,279 met him. Then I mention him the question. Conferences are Ryan Leeds. 141 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,639 It was two thousand and one. I think it was the first talking given 142 00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:41,480 on the animal mutralations, all right, and he wasn't happy at all. 143 00:14:41,159 --> 00:14:46,519 We ended up sat sharing a breakfast table in the hotel actually in the morning 144 00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:52,120 before the first day of the conference, and he was all shuffling about. 145 00:14:52,519 --> 00:15:01,960 He was uncomfortable. Obviously, I didn't know how to respond, you know, 146 00:15:03,039 --> 00:15:13,600 with any significant comments about the animal mutilation phenomena. So I can't say 147 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:18,039 we got on very well. We were polite and all the rest of it. 148 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:24,440 But yeah, and also it was also a conference giving a speech was 149 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,320 doctor Stephen Greer, right, and he realized what I was going to talk 150 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:33,039 about and we met up in the hotel lobby when Graham asked me to round 151 00:15:33,039 --> 00:15:37,480 people up for the Many Boss to take us to the conference Vence venue, 152 00:15:39,399 --> 00:15:41,360 and he had a bit of a go at me, right, okay, 153 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,960 very lofty, I know, it's all you know nothing sort of attitude. 154 00:15:48,159 --> 00:15:52,759 And I realized for years we've got on and it's still at it that he 155 00:15:52,799 --> 00:16:00,919 believes all the mutilations have done. Why American military or specialist groups not done 156 00:16:00,919 --> 00:16:04,960 by ET because it doesn't like the ET is to be seen as bad mother 157 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,919 than bad. And considering the number, I mean, Tony Doddie said, 158 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:15,159 I think it must be thirty at least types of extraterrestrial species, all at 159 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:22,200 different levels of technology, coming from different places, different sorts of craft. 160 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:29,200 So so Stephen Career wasn't having that at all. It was put me down 161 00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:33,720 and put the whole subjects of mutilations down because it didn't suit his gender. 162 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,639 Well, that's that's interesting, that that theory that he has, because you 163 00:16:37,759 --> 00:16:44,759 have to wonder what American special forces will be doing up Upper Moor in Toddmdon 164 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:51,200 in West Yorkshire. Yes, because that's that's how myself and Lea we first 165 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,080 got to know each other. Isn't it like through that that case that happened 166 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,240 now a couple of years ago? I mean, did you have any any 167 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:03,639 deep dealings with that at all? David and Lee? Has anything come to 168 00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:07,519 light since we last? We'll ask chatting about that or has that one sort 169 00:17:07,559 --> 00:17:11,799 of gone? Had the pleasure of talking to Lee about us and the chap 170 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:22,640 who stumbled across the calf port. Yeah, Albert Tires took some excellent photographs, 171 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,839 which is it makes a change, don't do it? And then I 172 00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:32,920 had to know of it from what was that lady's name, Haswell, Debbie 173 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:38,720 Hatchwell. I spoke to her and she put me in touch Lee, so 174 00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:44,039 I got to see the pictures. But you have on file and we deduced 175 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:52,319 I am confident it's the same farmer who lost his calf. It never made 176 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,440 any inquiries that the calf was never moved, he never reclaimed the carcass. 177 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,599 Some years early, I've been to his farm which was shared with a lady 178 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:10,359 who lived next door the land, and it had Robert Hols and I went 179 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:18,720 to view a sheep mature you who had got throat and face injures. Typical 180 00:18:18,759 --> 00:18:26,160 things and eventually I got out of the farmer a confession here or two. 181 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,440 After that event, he had two or three others, but he never despite 182 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:36,720 his promises, he never let me know. He was obviously very unhappy about 183 00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:41,799 it an autumn, disbelieving that he wanted it to be some natural predator or 184 00:18:41,839 --> 00:18:48,279 something. So he's been in trouble with the DEFRA about health issues on his 185 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:56,240 farm and learns so it run out to help us to train future cases. 186 00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:00,519 He didn't want people parking around, then, did he not? No? 187 00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:03,440 No, I suppose not. No. I mean I know quite a few 188 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,359 farmers because I live in in a particular rural area around here, and I 189 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:14,640 do know quite a few farmers, and they can be very secretive about everything, 190 00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:18,680 really, And if death had been poking around, obviously, then then 191 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,480 he wouldn't want sort of any indication that there might, you know, the 192 00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:29,599 might have been any malpractice on his part. Yeah, Yeah, that's it. 193 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,279 I mean, that's one of the reasons we chose. So I really 194 00:19:32,319 --> 00:19:36,000 wrote the whole thing up as an article recently, and that's one of the 195 00:19:36,079 --> 00:19:38,119 reasons we chose to keep his name out of it, because we did identify 196 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:44,839 the farmer. Yeah, you know, it wasn't immediately around the twenty twenty 197 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,920 period. It was more like twenty eleven, I think, right when when 198 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,880 the charges were brought against him, right, Yeah, but he would still 199 00:19:52,920 --> 00:20:00,119 obviously be quite aware of those one being quite quite wary of people getting involved. 200 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,359 Yeah. I mean, one interesting thing was we were looking for an 201 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,440 ear tag because the ear was missing, and sometimes in these cases the tag 202 00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:11,920 is left behind strangely enough, so we were looking for one. We didn't 203 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,160 find one. But what we did discover is a couple of months after we 204 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,880 first went to the site, was the herd that it was from, which 205 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:25,240 was up near Guddings Dam, And it was a mixed herd with carved about 206 00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:27,079 the same age, so we could pretty certain. And I did get told 207 00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:32,759 who the farmer was, who was this herd belonged to, And none of 208 00:20:32,759 --> 00:20:36,000 them were tagged actually, so you know, he's sort of skirting the regulations 209 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,039 a little bit, so we didn't want to get him in trouble or anything 210 00:20:38,079 --> 00:20:47,920 like that. You know. So is animal mutilation as one of your favorite 211 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,839 subjects, David, but but one of your it was a pet subject that 212 00:20:51,839 --> 00:20:59,400 would be even worse one that nately one of one of the subjects that you're 213 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:04,720 interested, then yes. After three years of interviewing people about things seen in 214 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:12,000 the sky for across international very often, I filed a report for Tony Dodd, 215 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:17,359 got them usually filled in and all the rest of it. And that's 216 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,640 the end of it. So you either believe that person of what they've witnessed 217 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:26,920 or you don't and you can't take it forward. That's it. So having 218 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,839 found out about the mutilations, partly from Tony Dodd, but also from Linda 219 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:36,200 Moulton how in the States, and I met Linda a few times down in 220 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,960 Wiltshire because one of the things I was doing in the past was investigating seriously 221 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,960 crop circles. About twelve years I joined a center crop circle and research, 222 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,640 and of course I was through a friend who used to work are shared space. 223 00:21:53,960 --> 00:22:08,079 He knew any which is down. He introduced me to Plan Andrews gentleman. 224 00:22:08,519 --> 00:22:15,799 I knows rupture. It's okay, all right, come to me. 225 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,599 I have the same problems with my memory, David, don't worry anyway with 226 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,640 him. Were such up the APFU animal pathology. Feel you unit, okay, 227 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:33,640 Phil, Phil Hail, thank you very much. Memory. He had 228 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:41,559 lots of personal experiences and abductions for many years. So it was aware of 229 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,920 the animal stuff. And I got talking to and we decided to try and 230 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,680 form a group, and I think it was four or five us for a 231 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:55,640 while, but the others soon dropped out for various reasons won't bore you with, 232 00:22:56,599 --> 00:23:00,319 but though one of them, it was obviously when I gave that talk 233 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:07,279 at the QUEST conference in two thousand and one on the stage when I was 234 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:11,880 I was wrapping up and Gray and Birds was getting a vote of thanks and 235 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,839 resting the audience, he said everyone was eight hundred people there. Eight hundred 236 00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:23,200 said David needs help on this. Anyone willing to help catch up with me 237 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,559 at the conference? You see, well on this one person came forward as 238 00:23:27,599 --> 00:23:36,000 in the audience, and very intelligent bloke down in down house somewhere, and 239 00:23:36,519 --> 00:23:42,039 anyway, we concluded, particularly Phil Hoyle, who was more stute at spotting 240 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:48,920 these people. He was quite clearly from affiliated in some way with some government 241 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,240 department checking up to see how we were getting on look at this animal stuff, 242 00:23:53,240 --> 00:24:00,680 because it was all hush and popped off and buried and giving the and 243 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,279 that's what they were doing. So and also something happened one day when he 244 00:24:04,759 --> 00:24:11,720 was chasing me for some photographs of some of the bodies, and I rang 245 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,039 him and he answered the phone, which was a land line, and then 246 00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:21,000 while I was on the line, I heard a mobile ring or to the 247 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,680 must have be another way around, so he put me on hold and walked 248 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,799 down the passageway to be other phone. I could hear him say things like 249 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:38,200 yes, he's here right now, it's me. So whoever was orchestrating him 250 00:24:38,319 --> 00:24:44,079 or in charge of him doing what he was doing, were anxious to get 251 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:48,000 hold of any images I could provide pass them on to him without to me 252 00:24:48,039 --> 00:24:52,359 it was a clue what he was up to, so we sort of dropped 253 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:59,680 him out. It just ended up in the end with a Phil Hoyle and 254 00:25:00,079 --> 00:25:07,480 but Holtz who came with me to one or two events locations to try and 255 00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:14,960 retrieve a carcass or whatever. All The main thing is Phil devised the name 256 00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:18,839 and a more pathology feel, you know, because using the word pathology, 257 00:25:18,839 --> 00:25:25,759 because now that was for pathologies. Obviously. I was lucky enough to meet 258 00:25:25,759 --> 00:25:33,039 a professor of pathology who was criminal pathology from Manchester UNI on a BBC Radio 259 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:41,640 breakfast program interview chat which I got Graham Bursl got me to go because he 260 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:47,039 couldn't make it, and I'm went like seven miles eight miles from Manchester the 261 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:55,279 studios. And it was the morning after that Bloody Ray Santilly had released his 262 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:03,319 so called alien Autopsy, And so the BBC asked this professor and a colleague 263 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,119 to view the program the night before and come and make comments about what you 264 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:14,519 thought of the prestigures that the film showed. Now we got around the table 265 00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:18,880 with the microphones. It's just two lady presenters, so we didn't know each 266 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:25,680 other from Adam, and they did a bit of an introduction thing. There 267 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,680 was a weather forecast and something or other, and previously has spoken to the 268 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:36,839 program producer and making it quite clear to him as a UPO upologists working for 269 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,960 quests, quests as a whole, and a lot of work that Tony Dodd 270 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:49,720 and Graham had done to disprove raised Antelli's claimed that this was a real military 271 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:59,440 black and white movie film or real Ailien having an autopsy. But he failed, 272 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,160 well, accidental or deliberate, he didn't inform that to the two lady 273 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,440 presenters, who thought I was going to say, Ureka, we've got the 274 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,680 smoking gun. This is what we've been mading for. And I went then 275 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:18,680 enter a cross swords with Professor Fremont. So while they were having their weather 276 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,119 forecasts and the mics were off, asked a bit of paper across to say 277 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,759 who he was, and I sent a bit back saying, you know I 278 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,599 was. You see, So the whole program in terms of the discussion fell 279 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:37,200 a bit flat because there was no raised voices or arguments, which it was 280 00:27:37,319 --> 00:27:41,319 about the illinutopsy film. Yeah, which of course has been proved to be 281 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,960 an absolute or to complete hawks. Yes, believe the people that made the 282 00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:52,440 dummy have come forward since somethen Thet'm speaking to Philip Mantle about it a while 283 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,559 ago. At one time he was pushing it. Mantle yeah, yeah, 284 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:02,440 yeah, yeah, very early, so he didn't have to he was forced 285 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:07,720 into autun us flit. Mantle, yeah, yeah. Interesting. So that 286 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,160 event just interrupting me. Sorry. As we were going out, I said 287 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,319 Tony Fremont, you know, if I got some animal carcases of tissue, 288 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,839 would you prepare to help me? And he said, oh, yes, 289 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,640 certainly. Well after that we raised a meeting at my house. Tony Dodd 290 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:30,240 came. He had to stop port and Tony Fromont Fremont came to join us. 291 00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:34,559 And Tony brought quite a few images, lots of Lindam all the house 292 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:40,319 stuff which we were passing around, and he wasn't making comments. And what 293 00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:45,960 really got Professor Fremont going was Tony put his hand in his pocket brought out 294 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:52,640 the brown envelope with three or four pictures of that poor man in Brazil from 295 00:28:52,720 --> 00:29:00,519 nineteen eighty eight who had all these mutilations. You remember him that I know 296 00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:04,240 in case now that nineteen right, I'm not familiar with that that story, 297 00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:11,160 to be honest, what what mutilation? No, I haven't heard it. 298 00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:18,039 Sort of briefly going to what that was about. Yes, right, So 299 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:25,319 that Tony Fremont is Dando was really up and he looked at very closely a 300 00:29:25,319 --> 00:29:30,640 long time. What these photographs that Tony dad produced? And he said, 301 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:37,279 and I had a tape recording at the time with his permission, he said, 302 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,240 like talking to himself or talking for his profession. He said, looking 303 00:29:42,279 --> 00:29:48,599 at the injuries, I don't see how we could do this. That was 304 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,559 a very telling remark. He also said, because of some of the bluish 305 00:29:52,599 --> 00:30:00,119 stains around some of the holes in his thigh, in his arms, and 306 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,200 he said, that's a sign that the poor guy was alive at the time. 307 00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:08,720 These some of these energies were done right. So it was like bleeding 308 00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:15,200 into the tissue, he said, because his heart was pumping, and it 309 00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:21,279 leaves this bluish staying under the skin. Were in showing through the skin. 310 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,960 So that's that's remarks she made. So when people say, oh, it's 311 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,960 done by the military or wild animals and or I said, absolute rubbish. 312 00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:41,079 So and the information we've gathered since I have I've spent twenty over twenty years 313 00:30:41,319 --> 00:30:48,960 looking at the animal mutilation stuffs because it was very time consuming, traveling, 314 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:55,920 putting adverts in the farming press to get information back from farmers, which is 315 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,759 very difficult. There's a majority of them because we're only looking at a tip 316 00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:07,000 of an iceberg. Because the majority of farmers fine one they might be baffled 317 00:31:07,799 --> 00:31:12,000 thinking I've lost a sheep or lamb on whatever. They only get foxes to 318 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:18,160 take them down again. So it's part of farming life to lose amount of 319 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,599 stock through one reason or the other. And they were just bury it or 320 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,000 sent it to the drag hunt. And that was the end of that. 321 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,640 So some farmers would have been on to a farm, and I've asked. 322 00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:36,359 I can tell why pretty sure by their body language and things that they've had 323 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,759 something they know about it, but they wouldn't admit to me in a certain 324 00:31:40,839 --> 00:31:45,640 day or time scale they had a lamber or sheep or a coutever found with 325 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,880 these sort of injuries, because I used to take photographs to show them. 326 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:53,200 And I put an advert in the farming press, which was agreed by Tony 327 00:31:53,240 --> 00:32:00,839 Freemant without mentioning his name, because unfortunately eventually got warned off tell you about 328 00:32:00,839 --> 00:32:07,720 that little bit if you want, so, I sort of I decided that 329 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,559 that was got quite a good results. Actually, the adverts co three hundred 330 00:32:12,599 --> 00:32:20,480 pounds in the Farmers Weekly for one week in the classified section undergrounds for two 331 00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:25,960 column widths, and the first one I did. Tim Good kindly paid the 332 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,519 three hundred quid for that. In fading, I got him a vat specific 333 00:32:30,599 --> 00:32:35,720 get back, which I did. Richard D. Hall, who I've worked 334 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:42,720 with rich planet a few times, he paid for one for the wasn't Farmers 335 00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:47,480 Weekly as Farmers Guardian. The Farmer's Guardian was a more animal orientated farming magazine 336 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:53,400 and the Farmers Weekly, and then drain burstl Bess his Heart paid for another 337 00:32:53,440 --> 00:33:00,839 advert in the Farmer's Guardian, and they all pursues some results, and I 338 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:06,759 missed some animals by a week, some several weeks, summer months and some 339 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:12,039 years. So the farmers recognized by by description what we're looking for. I 340 00:33:12,079 --> 00:33:19,079 didn't want them to waste time going for arriving seventury of miles or more to 341 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,440 find it was just normal predation and that seem to work. But it was 342 00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:30,400 costly thing to do each time, but it got me some results. So 343 00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:35,119 what are your theories then, David, about what's causing these mutilations? I 344 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:43,119 mean, is it is it extraterrestrial or is there some predation by well, 345 00:33:43,559 --> 00:33:47,240 let's you know, big cats, that that sort of thing. What's what's 346 00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:52,599 your take on it? Without a shadow of doubt, it's it is. 347 00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:59,720 It's very highly advanced procedures. They're taking larger organs through small holes in the 348 00:33:59,759 --> 00:34:04,759 bow. How they do that isn't the mystery? With no blood, there's 349 00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:07,800 no blood let around the carcass, there's no blood on the on the carcass, 350 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:13,280 apart from a bit of when the animals being tipped over. Sometimes residual 351 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:19,719 blood seeps out of the wound or the mouth. And because of the EMO, 352 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:27,679 it's pretty much the same. There's a pattern from animos anal and all 353 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,639 species are affected worldwide. It's not just in America as people that like to 354 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:38,920 thought or think at one time, or just wherever in Britain. It's all 355 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:45,519 around the world. The and the EMO is the same. So so much 356 00:34:45,559 --> 00:34:50,199 for Stephen Greer saying all the American military are doing it to scare you off, 357 00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:53,199 to me, to make a bad light. The eats and a bad 358 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:59,039 light. And there these lovely extraterrestrials. We must communicate with them and all 359 00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:05,400 their meetings you have as getting people to to try and make contact and all 360 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:12,599 that jazz. Yeah, so I'm no doubt there can't be anything else now 361 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,480 because I think we've exhausted all the other possible things. And as for mutilation 362 00:35:16,679 --> 00:35:22,440 by another wild animal, I mean when the animal predates on something, it 363 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:29,199 does it to eat and the carcass will be a mess, teeth and claw 364 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:36,320 marks, tissue over the place, wool from a sheep scattered about, skin 365 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,599 and a lot of blood around too. So it's no way are these as 366 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:51,119 twenty three months said highly advanced medical procedures and not done by mister Fox or 367 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:57,960 a dog, because dogs do attack sheep and lambs particularly, So that's my 368 00:35:58,119 --> 00:36:02,039 take on it. So I mean that brings us quite sort of nicely really 369 00:36:02,079 --> 00:36:07,000 to one of the questions I wanted to ask, which is about the recent 370 00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:15,800 disclosure evidence. So obviously, you know, people, different people within this 371 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:25,480 this particular sphere have different different thoughts on the information that has been that has 372 00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:30,400 been brought out in these these hearings of over in America. I mean, 373 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,559 late, let's let's start. I'll start with you, because again I'm conscious, 374 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:38,440 I'm conscious you've been sat there very patiently. Lead is more into this 375 00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:44,559 and not at it most carefully than me, Yeah, or not David Gruc's 376 00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:49,039 announcements or ust of it. Yeah, yeah, So what's your thoughts on 377 00:36:49,119 --> 00:36:52,599 it? Like, well, yeah, I mean it's complicated, isn't. 378 00:36:52,639 --> 00:36:55,000 I think that's part of the problem. I've had to learn quite a bit 379 00:36:55,039 --> 00:36:59,599 of American politics, you know, just just to understand what's going on. 380 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:05,639 But you know, if if you'd take a step back what was discovered years 381 00:37:05,639 --> 00:37:08,679 ago is that I don't know if you'd know about the story of Thomas Wilson, 382 00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:15,079 Admiral Wilson, and he was involved in a meeting with several people, 383 00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:17,599 including doctor Greer actually, but that was when he was doing some decent work 384 00:37:19,079 --> 00:37:23,199 and Edgar Mitchell, the former astronaut, and the upshot of the meeting was 385 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:29,320 they informed him about these particular projects that were going on involving crash recoveries of 386 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:35,559 UFOs and reverse engineering, and they gave him enough information so he could go 387 00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:38,320 and check basically, and so he did, and a document leaked out a 388 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:44,840 few years ago which was a meeting between this guy and another person and discussing 389 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,639 what he learned basically, And what he learned was that, I mean, 390 00:37:47,679 --> 00:37:51,679 this guy was his next job was going to be ahead of the Defense Intelligence 391 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,440 Agency at that time, so it was a very high ranking and what he 392 00:37:54,559 --> 00:38:00,800 learned was he was not allowed access and that actually more most of the government 393 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:05,320 didn't have access. And what was happening was the federal government that the intelligence 394 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,320 agencies and the military agencies were keeping its secret from the congressional side of government, 395 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:15,159 and so the people who should have been informed weren't being So this is 396 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:20,679 exactly what Grush discovered years later when he were working for the task Force, 397 00:38:21,559 --> 00:38:23,880 you know, So for people that don't know David Grish, he was with 398 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,480 the Air Force, he was with the National Geospatial Agency, and he was 399 00:38:28,519 --> 00:38:32,559 with the National Reconnaissance Office and he got tasked I think it was twenty nineteen 400 00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:38,039 to join the UFP Task Force, which had been mandated by Congress at that 401 00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:44,239 time. And part of his job was given was to look for any projects 402 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,440 that might be duplicating the work essentially, and that's where they've discovered them. 403 00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:52,119 You know, they actually knew where to look because of things that happened previously. 404 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:58,840 And Grush succeeded in interviewing forty witnesses I think is the figure that's going 405 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:04,239 around now, people who worked inside these projects, people who have you know, 406 00:39:04,559 --> 00:39:08,079 knocked on cross UFOs, seen the bodies and what have you. Right, 407 00:39:08,519 --> 00:39:13,440 And he was, you know, a little bit concerned and a little 408 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,039 bit disturbed, if you will. And so as a result of his investigation 409 00:39:16,159 --> 00:39:23,239 official investigation for the UFP Task Force, he experienced reprisals from the government I 410 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,159 think. I think he went into work one day and his security clearance had 411 00:39:27,199 --> 00:39:32,320 been gone. So his reaction to that was to go to it's called it's 412 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:37,159 the ICIG, so it's the Intelligence Community Inspector General's Office and file an official 413 00:39:37,159 --> 00:39:43,039 complaint. And the complaint you filed was about these programs and the fact that 414 00:39:43,079 --> 00:39:47,840 they were being ruin without congressional oversight. So you know, in America, 415 00:39:49,079 --> 00:39:52,559 the Gang there's eight members of Congress in the Senate who had head the heads 416 00:39:52,559 --> 00:39:57,239 of various committees. They call them the Gang of Eight. And they should 417 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:02,280 have access to all classified projects or these special access programs programs. Yeah, 418 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:07,000 they should have access, but they don't. They didn't, and this is 419 00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:10,199 what they discoveredly see, so this is what he can show, right. 420 00:40:10,199 --> 00:40:14,880 Sorry? Would would Project blue Book be one of those time? No? 421 00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:20,079 No, that was very much a public relations exercise essentially, it wasn't It 422 00:40:20,119 --> 00:40:24,480 wasn't classified. The special access programs are the real deep black stuff. You 423 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,840 know, nobody talks about it, and you know, usually aircraft developmental weapons 424 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,480 development. Or do you do you think that the president would have been kept 425 00:40:34,519 --> 00:40:37,039 out of the loop as well then, or whichever president you know, the 426 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,719 number of presidents that have been over the years, do you think all of 427 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:46,079 them have been kept in the dark about this as well? The information is 428 00:40:46,119 --> 00:40:51,719 that yes, some of them may have received limited briefings about, you know, 429 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,760 other aspects of the programs, like maybe sightings or something. One of 430 00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:00,679 the rumors is that Bush the first Bush, he probably did get a brief 431 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:05,280 in because of his position. He was deeply in the intelligence community anyway. 432 00:41:06,639 --> 00:41:08,440 So but yeah, the rumors are that he was probably the last one. 433 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:14,360 Yeah. I mean the reason that I asked and I had a discussion with 434 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,440 with some other guests a few weeks ago about this is obviously, you know, 435 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:22,960 there's certain more recent presidents find it very difficult to keep the mouth shut 436 00:41:23,079 --> 00:41:28,679 or have found it very difficult to keep the mouth shutting something something I think 437 00:41:28,679 --> 00:41:32,920 we all know I'm referring, so something like this, if if because you 438 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:37,079 know, some of the rumors have been that presidents one of the first things 439 00:41:37,119 --> 00:41:44,360 that they briefed on when they become presidents of the United States is extraterrestrial contact. 440 00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:46,880 Now, if that that was the case, there will will have been 441 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:53,079 certain presidents or or president singular who you know, found it quite difficult not 442 00:41:53,159 --> 00:41:57,199 to open the mouth and say the wrong things at the wrong time. So 443 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,159 it would just seem that this information that's coming out was actually you know, 444 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,880 beyond even that of the Office of Presidents. Yeah, no, that really 445 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,519 is the implication. Yeah, strongly, And that's kind of the concern as 446 00:42:12,519 --> 00:42:15,440 well. You know, lack of oversight is was the issue, you know, 447 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,840 Yeah, Trump, I don't. I don't think Trump was briefed in 448 00:42:20,119 --> 00:42:23,079 I agree if he was. If he was, he was, he probably 449 00:42:23,119 --> 00:42:25,480 went in one ear and out the other. He was probably busy doing something 450 00:42:25,519 --> 00:42:28,559 else. Well, I mean, he's referenced it a few times, and 451 00:42:28,559 --> 00:42:31,639 he's referenced Roswell as well. Yeah, but when you listen to his the 452 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,679 content of what he refers to, I think it's clearly he's had a briefing 453 00:42:35,679 --> 00:42:38,719 from the USP Task Force because he's talking about the pilot sightings and things like 454 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,360 that. Yeah, so that he hasn't had a briefing by these special access 455 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,159 programs as far as I can tell, you know, Yeah, so go 456 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:52,679 on the special access program Sorry I interrupted you. No, that's all right. 457 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,159 So, so Grush found these programs, and that's what would say that 458 00:42:55,199 --> 00:43:00,400 hadn't we and then he went to the Inspector General's office and lodge this complaint, 459 00:43:00,519 --> 00:43:05,639 which they formerly have to investigate. That's what they do. They're essentially 460 00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:10,880 the police of the intelligence community, and what they did is that they essentially 461 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:15,199 passed past him and his witnesses. Because he brought witnesses with him, he 462 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:21,800 wasn't the only one that testified, so that this office is probably in possession 463 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,199 of the evidence we're all looking for at the moment, but it's classified, 464 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:29,119 so you know, not the hardware, but there are rumors to be documents 465 00:43:29,159 --> 00:43:32,239 and pictures among in all this, not to mention the testimony from multiple insiders, 466 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:37,599 you know, who are clearly in the positions they claim to be. 467 00:43:37,519 --> 00:43:43,199 You know, I've said this before. Bubblers Are he had some interesting information 468 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,360 and he may or may not have been to as ay fifty honest for you 469 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,320 know. The reason we don't know for sure is because bubbles Are couldn't even 470 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,519 presue prove his educational background, you know, and so that leaves a real 471 00:43:54,599 --> 00:43:59,400 big question mark there, whereas Gross is absolutely who he says he was, 472 00:43:59,639 --> 00:44:02,039 you know, and not only that his bosses have backed him up as well, 473 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,440 from the task Force. You know, there's quite a few people back 474 00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:12,639 to him up. Yeah, go on, David, Yeah, I was 475 00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:19,039 just thinking that all the good stuff there leave, but I don't think I 476 00:44:19,039 --> 00:44:22,840 still don't think they'll go for a full disclosure. I think they'll still try 477 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:28,639 and keep it under wraps as much as possible, because I think there's too 478 00:44:28,639 --> 00:44:36,320 many ramifications if they made an announcements that we're definitely not alone and that we're 479 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:42,960 being attacked in raised ways by these unfriendly ones. And because his friendly ones 480 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:49,400 as well do good things to abductees. I know a few personally who've benefited 481 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:54,880 from their abduction experience. Give us an example of that, da there's bad 482 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,719 ones. Example of the good experiences. Yeah, yeah, I mean you 483 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:09,760 don't have to mention any names, just well improved attributes and skills like art 484 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:16,840 things, art photography, singing that the family. One case of family were 485 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:23,400 abducted off the M five some years ago and the two daughters suddenly Charlotte school 486 00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:29,679 one particularly she didn't didn't want to do with her because she was right at 487 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:36,199 the top classic because I ever think of to put her intelligence is improved and 488 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:43,559 their attributes and as skills. Some have had medical procedures fixed or improved upon, 489 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:52,880 you know, physical injuries miraculously fixed in a way just like Jesus Christ 490 00:45:53,000 --> 00:46:00,360 used to do. Is healing because Jesus Christ and my belief was high et 491 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:07,480 and Mary was abducted and implanted with Jesus, and he was sent here to 492 00:46:07,519 --> 00:46:13,760 try and sort us out and fail these stupid human beings with the Romans and 493 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:19,440 what I was going on at the time, and he failed and they ended 494 00:46:19,519 --> 00:46:27,800 up puttinghim on the cross and killing him. So there's clues. Robert Holes 495 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,480 is very much of Fay with things in the Old Testament, and there's plentive 496 00:46:31,519 --> 00:46:38,280 clues in the Old Testament of the Bible pointing to external involvement with human beings 497 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:50,039 over the millennaia. And I think the church leaders have altered they've written the 498 00:46:50,079 --> 00:47:00,039 Bible basically and hidden things and twisted things around and want to great impression of 499 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:06,639 the power of the church, particularly their own Catholics. So if the full 500 00:47:06,679 --> 00:47:12,280 disclosure came out, it was send all the mainstream religions in a flat spin, 501 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,880 particularly the Catholics. In my belief. Yeah, no, absolutely, 502 00:47:15,079 --> 00:47:19,639 I agree that. So that's one of the reasons why I don't think we'll 503 00:47:19,679 --> 00:47:23,079 ever get it. There's too much pressure on the United States government and in 504 00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:27,760 case what they're trying to prove, and so there's so much evidence out there. 505 00:47:28,039 --> 00:47:32,719 It's almost a joke in my opinion of them trying to say about certain 506 00:47:34,639 --> 00:47:38,880 information they have stacked up in the Pentagon or wherever when they think of every 507 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:45,039 Air Force p actually around the world have had interactions and intercepts with crafts, 508 00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:52,800 you know, scrambles like that Cyprus event I've mentioned, so, I mean, 509 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:59,119 and what they're doing to the animals and unfortunately human beings. And I've 510 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:07,719 quite a few human cases now in my file pictures and the m again is 511 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:14,239 very similar to Ebo on certain regions of the animals. So but you know, 512 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,920 Equing not three months, Professor three months comments about that poor Brazilian man 513 00:48:19,679 --> 00:48:23,360 don't see how we could do this, And he's talking about the medical profession 514 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:30,159 and his knowledge and profession as a pathologist at deals with murder cases and this 515 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:38,320 sort of thing. Manchester Police. I find it amusing in a way, 516 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:44,519 in a sad way, all this Who are and the media making hey about 517 00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:50,239 what the Americans are releasing or not releasing when there's so much information already had 518 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:58,119 there out there. Organizations like our irmod our, ministry, defense and the 519 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:07,559 Air Force head people have enough information to hand like these Cyprus events just two 520 00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:13,960 within four to eight hours in nineteen fifty eight and the reactions to the MD 521 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:19,320 when that happened to the people who witnessed it. To me, what more 522 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,360 do you need? You know, it just it's just ridiculous. Yeah, 523 00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:27,480 well, I get a bit frustrated all this carry on, the media make 524 00:49:27,559 --> 00:49:31,280 about people like David Groush being a whistleblower and all of us of it. 525 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:38,599 But it doesn't I'm hoping wrong, it doesn't just fizzle out, no inn 526 00:49:38,599 --> 00:49:44,199 others of the Muslim Yeah, yeah, I mean it's interesting what you're saying 527 00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,519 that there is There's there's an awful lot of information out there now. I 528 00:49:46,559 --> 00:49:52,480 mean, obviously in the in the era that we're in now of being able 529 00:49:52,559 --> 00:50:00,320 to access any amount of of daterin information online, and obviously, you know, 530 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:06,760 people like ourselves talking about these things now, any number of people out 531 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:13,480 there who have had experiences. I mean, I was talking to my last 532 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:20,280 podcast last a couple of weeks ago, was about Calvin Parker, who sadly 533 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,480 obviously you know, passed away recently. But I was talking about, you 534 00:50:24,519 --> 00:50:28,639 know, his particular case. Again, I mean, it's this a very 535 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:34,159 famous case, but you know, there are any number of people who have 536 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,039 had similar experiences over the years, and so I agree. I think it's 537 00:50:38,159 --> 00:50:44,920 I think it's almost amusing that, you know, the the American authorities in 538 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:50,800 particular sort of trying to drip I think they are trying to drip feed information 539 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,719 out to people. But I also think you're right, David, and that 540 00:50:53,840 --> 00:51:00,119 there are you know, interested parties, vested interests, you know, whether 541 00:51:00,199 --> 00:51:08,880 it be religious or industrial or political, who were trying to stop the information 542 00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:14,159 coming out. Because you're quite right, it would throw the whole of society 543 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,280 and to complete panic and chaos. If somebody came on the news now and 544 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:22,199 said, actually, this alien sat next to me is such and such a 545 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:27,159 body from such such a planet and they've been coming here for years and we're 546 00:51:27,199 --> 00:51:31,119 not alone and blah blah blast. So so yeah, I mean it'll be 547 00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:37,519 interesting to see where where they go with it. Yeah, yeah, well 548 00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:39,880 certainly. I mean it's certainly interesting as well. I think about what other 549 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:44,519 governments, No, because obviously it's not it can't just be can't just be 550 00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:46,599 the American government. I mean, the American government likes to think that, 551 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:51,440 you know, America is the center of the world and everything else all the 552 00:51:51,519 --> 00:51:54,039 shots. Yeah, exactly. They call all the shots when you top Doug, 553 00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:00,559 Well, exactly, but there's obviously, you know, an apologies to 554 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:06,559 so if anybody is listening to this podcast from the from the States, but 555 00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:09,199 obviously, you know, like like you said, David, our own military 556 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:14,559 and obviously military of other countries as well will have had their own experiences. 557 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,199 Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, And I mean it's actually part of 558 00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,039 the testament ites part of the information that's coming out is that the Five Eyes 559 00:52:22,039 --> 00:52:25,360 Allies are involved in this. It's not just America, and I'm sure they 560 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:30,360 do take the lead. But you know, just to address David's point really 561 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,760 about if this is going to come to anything, we're actually at a really 562 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,639 at a crux point right now because this has already come to something, and 563 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:45,000 that is that there's a new legislation been drafted, sixty four pages of language, 564 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:49,559 which will become law if it gets past it's been debated right now, 565 00:52:49,639 --> 00:52:51,960 and if it gets past the House, then it will go to the President. 566 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:58,400 It's called the National Defense Authorization Act, and this act allows Congress and 567 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,159 the Senate to import new laws essentially on the intelligence communities and the military, 568 00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:06,960 and it comes along with the budget, so they have to follow the laws, 569 00:53:07,039 --> 00:53:08,519 you know, if they have to comply with the new legislation to get 570 00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:12,639 the budget. Although they're not instant, you know, it does take a 571 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:16,519 little bit of time. So what's in place right now is there's sixty four 572 00:53:16,559 --> 00:53:22,800 pages of legislation and it's called the twenty twenty four Disclosure Act, and if 573 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:29,519 you read through it, it's basically compels any organization, even private organizations in 574 00:53:29,559 --> 00:53:36,880 the States, to release and reveal to the congressional side of government that information, 575 00:53:37,159 --> 00:53:42,199 including allowing it will be our row will get the job essentially to go 576 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,599 and audit it as well. And it goes much deeper than that. They 577 00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:50,119 have to give up every agency has to give up every single document. There's 578 00:53:50,159 --> 00:53:52,599 going to be the creation of a board appointed by the President, I think 579 00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:58,480 the nine member board, and they will decide which, you know what information. 580 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,880 It's all presumed to be declassifiable, but obviously they do come up with 581 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:07,719 excuses not too you know, and so I if this come goes through, 582 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:09,599 then we might be in with a good chance of discovering that. Yeah, 583 00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:15,719 you know, these intelligence agencies have their hands on hardware, you know, 584 00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:21,239 so it's all right. I actually sightings and I always will but it's important 585 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:23,760 for me to know if somebody's got the hard evidence there of a craft, 586 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:29,159 because that does that craft match with the witness reports we get in from the 587 00:54:29,199 --> 00:54:31,079 civilians? And I'm sure it does. You know, is it a disc? 588 00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,639 Is it a tik tak or a triangle? You know? Do the 589 00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:39,000 bodies look like the ones that are showing up in people's bedrooms. I'm pretty 590 00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,679 sure they do, do you know what I mean? And we may also 591 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,559 learn us with it. It's like some of the information that's leaking out, 592 00:54:45,639 --> 00:54:50,199 which isn't confirmed, suggest that these and we've heard this all along, really 593 00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,440 a lot of these beings are manufactured. This seemed to be manufactured, you 594 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,719 know, this seemed to be all the same. And some of the most 595 00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,920 recent information is that they may be manufactured from materials found on Earth, so 596 00:55:02,199 --> 00:55:06,119 from animals and human parts. I don't mean cobbled together, I mean at 597 00:55:06,119 --> 00:55:09,440 the cellular level. Yeah. And you know, if you've ever heard of 598 00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:16,639 the von Neuman probe concept, no, so it's it's it was proposed by 599 00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:21,559 von Neuman, and the idea is that it's a way to carry out space 600 00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:24,599 travel. Is that a civilization instead of sending people out into space. They 601 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:29,880 send a probe which is as now we'd we'd call it AI, and that 602 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,239 probe is fitted with the ability to find a destination of interest, set up 603 00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:40,079 base, start harvesting resources locally, and manufacturing the extra probes and you know, 604 00:55:40,199 --> 00:55:45,639 whatever it needs essentially. So if something like that had happened here thousands 605 00:55:45,639 --> 00:55:49,079 of years ago, set up under the sea or under the under the Earth, 606 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,599 or out in the Solar system, you know, that might explain a 607 00:55:52,679 --> 00:55:55,800 lot of what we're seeing, including the animal mutilations, and including the fact 608 00:55:55,840 --> 00:56:01,719 that these beings are non human but not sarily extraterrestrial because there may be being 609 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:09,239 manufactured locally, you know. Yeah, and that could explain religion, just 610 00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,920 just going back to what you were saying before, David about the Catholic Church, 611 00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:21,480 going back to looking at the Bible and similar teaching, similar writings from 612 00:56:21,639 --> 00:56:29,679 other religions, even going back to the Egyptians, Babylonians, you know that 613 00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:34,280 those those sort of religions that could that could be an explanation of that. 614 00:56:35,679 --> 00:56:37,800 Yeah. Of course cargo cult, isn't it you know? So, yeah, 615 00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:44,199 very possible. Just mentioning religion from an't it a week ago? Had 616 00:56:44,199 --> 00:56:49,079 a knock on the front door. It was two nice middle aged ladies who 617 00:56:49,199 --> 00:56:53,320 turned out to be and I never asked the question whether they were Jehovah's witnesses. 618 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:59,119 I think they possibly were something similar to that. Yeah, and they 619 00:56:59,199 --> 00:57:01,960 started off. I say, we're not from the government. What do you 620 00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:08,360 think of the government? And I made some joke like the Irish commentator said, 621 00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:13,280 to be sure, the trouble with general elections is the government always gets 622 00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,599 in, which they thought using and the next thing she said, and what 623 00:57:16,719 --> 00:57:27,960 do you think about that? The share the Bible or right? She said? 624 00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,480 Anyway, she she came clear what they were really about. There were 625 00:57:32,519 --> 00:57:39,480 Bible bashes, and they went away, probably a bit shocked, a bit 626 00:57:39,519 --> 00:57:45,280 being used, and a bit horrified when I pointed out what my beliefs were 627 00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:50,760 and what I'm into. So they scuttled off down the drive for the tails 628 00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,119 between the legs. But I mean that's they were typical as the sort of 629 00:57:54,239 --> 00:58:00,320 people who follow whether it's Jaws or latter days say so whatever, Yeah, 630 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:07,800 any religion will be the same. I know I have one system of elders, 631 00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:12,639 particularly who's quite religious and she's a big church goer. Things in the 632 00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:17,199 choir pointing and what have you. And she's certainly not happy, happy at 633 00:58:17,239 --> 00:58:24,079 all what I'm doing, never has been, and she she doesn't allow me 634 00:58:24,239 --> 00:58:31,960 to talk about it when she's here or I'm there a flat Some people take 635 00:58:32,239 --> 00:58:37,480 take the religious writings literally, aren't they. Yeah, so yes, they're 636 00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:44,719 completely sold in the churches doctrine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, 637 00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,320 when when you look back at when some of these texts were written, 638 00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:52,760 it is, you know, it is highly feasible. But a lot of 639 00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,800 these stories that, let's say, for instance, are in the Old Testament, 640 00:58:55,880 --> 00:59:01,400 and I'm sure that there are writings and teaching in other forms of religious 641 00:59:01,639 --> 00:59:08,000 books as well, were because of the time when these events were supposed to 642 00:59:08,079 --> 00:59:13,960 have happened, and the time when these events were recorded in these religious books, 643 00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:19,559 that our ancestors didn't understand what they were seeing in the same way that 644 00:59:19,639 --> 00:59:22,519 we would understand it today. So you know, so in other words, 645 00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:27,679 you know, if if if we did see an alien, if an alien, 646 00:59:28,159 --> 00:59:31,400 an extraterrestrial, did suddenly appear in front of you, you will probably 647 00:59:31,519 --> 00:59:36,440 now we will probably think, oh, that's an extraterrestrial. Two thousand years 648 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:40,440 ago, one of our ancestors might think that's a god. Oh absolutely, 649 00:59:40,679 --> 00:59:45,320 Yeah. Yeah, and so that's that's obviously the difference. The thing which 650 00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:50,519 is, she's really interesting, and I think that's it's a whole massive subject 651 00:59:50,599 --> 00:59:54,519 on its own. Isn't it really about about religious teachings? Yeah? Yeah, 652 00:59:54,719 --> 00:59:59,800 I first retained uncomfortable with it when I was eleven. Issue I was 653 01:00:00,119 --> 01:00:06,239 tending confirmation classes in our church and even more Saint Paul's church. It was 654 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:15,199 and I thought, I felt, that's age uncomfortable. But about this guy 655 01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:22,039 telling me he's a load of fairy tales Bible events. Yeah, the ones 656 01:00:22,039 --> 01:00:25,000 would would like to hear this, But it was all leaning up to you 657 01:00:25,159 --> 01:00:34,719 being ready, being ready for confirmation. Yeah, class, I didn't like 658 01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:37,280 it that I'm misgiving us about it then, yeah, yeah. And I 659 01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,559 mean, you know, we all have our we all have our views, 660 01:00:40,599 --> 01:00:44,679 don't when we all have our religious views? And I'm sure that there are 661 01:00:44,719 --> 01:00:50,159 a lot of people who have very strong religious views and they firmly believe in 662 01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,920 their beliefs in the same way that we believe in ours. So you know, 663 01:00:57,159 --> 01:01:02,920 I would never criticize anybody for having a belief system which is different to 664 01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:09,280 mine. It's just that I believe that you know those belief systems, the 665 01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:13,800 genesis of those that's a joke. That's not a joke. Actually, the 666 01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:21,840 how those reliefs, those religious beliefs and writings and teachings started. I believe 667 01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:27,920 that they actually came from a different place than somebody who literally believes everything that's 668 01:01:28,079 --> 01:01:32,760 that is written in in their particular religious books or and I'm just very conscious 669 01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:38,280 of not you know, upsetting people, let's say, who would have a 670 01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:45,360 different religious belief but can recommend it's a ploy to get j who was off 671 01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:52,519 your doorstep and returned it was returned. You sh any interest or parallels with 672 01:01:53,199 --> 01:02:00,599 Bible teachings that they like to talk? What does it think about the player 673 01:02:00,199 --> 01:02:07,039 that was it? She said that at one point. Yea, so well, 674 01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:12,199 very interesting, take it, leave it. Yeah, it's very interesting. 675 01:02:13,599 --> 01:02:15,480 Late are you what what are you working on at the minute then, 676 01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:19,519 because it's because it's been a while since with spoke, I've been keeping up 677 01:02:19,519 --> 01:02:22,440 with your blog. What's what sort of stuff are you looking at at the 678 01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,840 minute? Well, not a lot a minute, to be honest. I've 679 01:02:25,119 --> 01:02:30,119 I've been obviously keep at it, and I keep getting reports, some more 680 01:02:30,199 --> 01:02:32,679 interest than others, But I haven't got anything right now, I've got several 681 01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:38,159 articles half written and free quarters written. So yeah, I mean one one 682 01:02:38,559 --> 01:02:44,480 article I've almos got written is an interesting case and it's one of those that 683 01:02:45,039 --> 01:02:47,239 for me, at least frustratingly, I just don't have the answer to whether 684 01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:52,280 it's a conventional object or an unconventional object. But this, this video was 685 01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:58,320 filmed on V Day barn Olswick, above barn Olswick. It's been on YouTube. 686 01:02:58,679 --> 01:03:00,039 It was twenty twenty. I've actually it was May, so it was 687 01:03:00,159 --> 01:03:04,320 not far before the you know, a couple of months before the Tommin and 688 01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:08,000 Calf case and not far away. And if you look at the video, 689 01:03:08,039 --> 01:03:13,000 it looks really impressive. It looks like you've got a silver orbe flying around 690 01:03:13,079 --> 01:03:15,960 in its changing direction and it's you know, flying all over the place. 691 01:03:15,639 --> 01:03:21,079 And the witnesses are really impressed. And what makes it so interesting to me 692 01:03:21,199 --> 01:03:23,760 has won it occurred Overballic. But two, I've actually got a second witness 693 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:28,719 with a second video of the same event. So it was about nine o'clock. 694 01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,400 Both of these people were filming it because because it was V Day, 695 01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:36,320 they you know, it was during towards the end of lockdown. Everybody was 696 01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:42,760 out having the garden parties and so it's really interesting video. But frustratingly, 697 01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,920 I've shared it with an image analysts and they're all of the opinion that they 698 01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:50,400 can't rule out a quad cop to drone right. And although at first that 699 01:03:50,519 --> 01:03:52,519 seems like a bit of a crappy explanation, when you're really look into it, 700 01:03:53,119 --> 01:03:57,599 you can't really out. And the reasons are this is because in May 701 01:03:57,639 --> 01:04:00,760 about nine o'clock, the sun is very low, and I've done some tests 702 01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,239 where you send up drones and things and you do get a bright reflection off 703 01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:09,320 it, you know, so we can't rule out this. This probably is 704 01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:15,280 a reflection you're looking at rather than a self illuminating object. Where we was 705 01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,840 just sighted over. It was over bon Holswit where I live. Yeah, 706 01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:24,679 and I actually I got in touch with the local police and they confirmed me 707 01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,679 that it wasn't them, So I can rule out that it's a police drawne. 708 01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,559 I've never been able to track down I've drawn pilot or anything or any 709 01:04:30,599 --> 01:04:34,559 footage, and it's it's very erratic flight, so I would suggest that anyone 710 01:04:34,679 --> 01:04:40,599 that was piloting it wasn't filming really, And the other interesting factories that I 711 01:04:40,719 --> 01:04:43,760 think if it was a drone, they would have had to have had the 712 01:04:44,519 --> 01:04:48,519 first person view helmet on because it departed from the center of town right down 713 01:04:48,599 --> 01:04:53,920 to the low end of town, which is quite a distance, and there's 714 01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,880 no way the pilot could have had eyes on it essentially the whole time. 715 01:04:57,239 --> 01:05:00,119 Yeah, you know, so there are some interesting elements to it. I 716 01:05:00,239 --> 01:05:02,639 can't rule out that it wasn't, you know, an unknown if you will 717 01:05:02,719 --> 01:05:08,440 as well. And you know, for me, the history of sightings in 718 01:05:08,519 --> 01:05:13,159 this town alone, because I've got a lot, at least thirty going back 719 01:05:13,199 --> 01:05:16,440 to you know, the sixties. You know that that keeps my interest open. 720 01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:19,760 So that that's the case, that it's open essentially, and I will 721 01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:25,159 publish this article eventually. Yeah, but if anything, it highlights the difficulties 722 01:05:25,239 --> 01:05:29,440 sometimes of trying to draw a firm conclusion, you know, without enough information. 723 01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:30,880 Yeah, of course, Yeah, it's very difficult, isn't it. 724 01:05:31,199 --> 01:05:42,400 So what's your what's your blog address? So I post my articles on Medium, 725 01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:47,119 So it's anomalous dash I at medium dot com and if you put if 726 01:05:47,119 --> 01:05:50,280 you put that in there, I've got about ten or eleven articles on there. 727 01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:54,639 I think maybe more. Yeah, I mean one of the interesting ones 728 01:05:54,719 --> 01:05:57,960 that I read recently, and this is probably going back a while now actually 729 01:05:58,079 --> 01:06:03,639 is the was it was it over Coln the portal, the the elderly couple 730 01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:09,320 that you. Yeah, that now, that was really quite strange to me. 731 01:06:10,719 --> 01:06:13,679 Yeah, it's it's a brilliant report, that one. Yeah, I 732 01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:15,239 just want to go through it. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, 733 01:06:15,239 --> 01:06:17,679 if you're okay too, Yeah. Yeah, So it was I think it 734 01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:23,440 was twenty second of February. It was twenty twenty one, and it was 735 01:06:23,519 --> 01:06:27,800 in Corn. Yeah. The witness was a gentleman called Ian Gibbons, and 736 01:06:28,599 --> 01:06:31,840 he was sitting watching TV I think, but he had his window open. 737 01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,360 He was he's likes to watch the stars and things. He's got quite a 738 01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:39,800 decent view over the hills where he lives. And he said that he noticed 739 01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,840 first of all, this distortion in the sky, which is a really unusual 740 01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:48,760 aspect of it and a really trading part. And as he watched this distortion 741 01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:51,440 sort of seemed to expand, if you will, get bigger, and then 742 01:06:54,119 --> 01:06:58,920 orange object for better you know, for lack of a better term, and 743 01:06:59,079 --> 01:07:01,400 merged out of it is the way he described it. And he described it 744 01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:06,840 as oval shaped more like an oblong, if you will, or an oval, 745 01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:15,039 and into his eye this object was just hovering. Distortion faded behind it, 746 01:07:16,159 --> 01:07:19,840 and this object, in his mind rotated towards him to become a perfect 747 01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:26,199 circle. So you've got in almost a gimball type object here, if people 748 01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:30,079 familiar with that gimbal footage. And then as he as he carried on watching, 749 01:07:30,119 --> 01:07:33,000 he shouted his wife to come and have a look, and he went 750 01:07:33,079 --> 01:07:35,880 to get a pair of binoculars, and while she was looking at it, 751 01:07:36,039 --> 01:07:41,119 she described and if anybody wants to read the articles on that website, there's 752 01:07:41,239 --> 01:07:45,079 interviews with him as well, a set of red lights equally space going all 753 01:07:45,119 --> 01:07:50,960 the way around this sphere. Well, this circle of orange light is how 754 01:07:51,039 --> 01:07:55,599 he described it. And he came back and he got his binoculars on it, 755 01:07:55,639 --> 01:07:59,599 and he's done sketches and things for us. And then it shot up 756 01:07:59,719 --> 01:08:02,760 as he as he says, at forty five degrees or thereabouts, and hovered 757 01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:06,679 again, and then from his perspective, it appeared, he said, it 758 01:08:06,719 --> 01:08:10,360 looked quite a bit faint and a bit redder as it was higher, but 759 01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:14,159 he could still see it quite clearly. And then it appeared to rotate again 760 01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:16,359 whereupon it looked like a disc or as he said, a flying saucer. 761 01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:23,760 And then and then from a standstill it set off twice as fast as a 762 01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:29,239 plane, he said, but accelerating as it went towards Skipton. A little 763 01:08:29,319 --> 01:08:34,079 interesting aside there is that that the more there between Skippton and Coln is Carlton 764 01:08:34,159 --> 01:08:39,600 Moore, which is the more that Philip Mantle talks about quite a lot, 765 01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:43,840 because the Graham Bird still, Tony Dodd and the Yorkshire U four guys in 766 01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,760 the eighties they went as far as to set a caravan up there. We 767 01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:54,279 were getting so many reports, you know. So, yeah, wasn't Gary 768 01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:59,880 Hesseltine police officer up there up in that area as well at one one stage, 769 01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:04,359 Yeah, based up about Carlton More quite a bit, all I haven't 770 01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:10,000 I haven't stopped some more interviewed man relief. It's Alton Moore as we're Chinnis 771 01:09:10,079 --> 01:09:16,039 Order and two other officers are their encounter. Yes, in nineteen seventy something, 772 01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,279 it is. Yeah, so this is the more. It's it's sort 773 01:09:19,319 --> 01:09:21,960 of it's my view, if you will, from from the town of bun 774 01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:27,680 Olswick. So it's it's no surprise we get the reports here. Why you 775 01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:30,600 know this is an active area, but it is. And of course Pendel 776 01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:32,279 Hill's class, isn't it as well? To both of us the main word 777 01:09:33,199 --> 01:09:36,520 one side of Pendel Hill and I'm on the other. Yeah. And of 778 01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:42,520 course we you know, we've we've both come across various reports over the years 779 01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:45,479 of objects either on this side of Pendel Hill or on your side of Pendel 780 01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:51,520 Hill. Yeah, and you know there are there are theories that that it 781 01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:57,079 could be, you know, the geology of the area that's bringing some of 782 01:09:57,119 --> 01:10:01,199 these objects, and we don't know, but I mean it it's certainly the 783 01:10:01,279 --> 01:10:06,399 whole area, isn't it. Really it's it's it's quite a hotbed of of 784 01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:13,199 UP and UFO activity and without a doubt. Yeah, I mean I sort 785 01:10:13,239 --> 01:10:15,479 of took a leaf out of posts in Clare's book and I thought, right, 786 01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:19,680 I'll focus on where I am and I'll reach out about thirty miles and 787 01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:24,039 then any reports I get, I can easily go and visit intoview the witnesses 788 01:10:24,119 --> 01:10:27,960 and visit the locations and all that. Yeah. It makes it very practical, 789 01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,279 and then you can map that particular area, So I mean I can 790 01:10:30,359 --> 01:10:34,479 go as far as Ilkley in one direction, and as far as sort of 791 01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:38,800 bolting not quite bolting me, but I sort of draw out because mit the 792 01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,520 Claren's all that way, if you will, but I don't. I wonder, 793 01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,479 you know, we know Pole's in a hot spot, and this is 794 01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:46,680 a hot spot, and the various other hot spots. You know, I 795 01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,319 do suspect that is the case, but you've got to wonder if it's a 796 01:10:49,399 --> 01:10:53,479 reporting bias as well, because people are active there, you know. Yeah, 797 01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,840 that's true. Yeah, that's true. That if you've got somebody such 798 01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:00,800 as yourself, for or such as Paul who into I'll be interviewing next week 799 01:11:02,359 --> 01:11:10,000 about about his his documentary that's just put out. It's very good. I 800 01:11:10,119 --> 01:11:13,439 enjoyed it. Yeah, me too, brilliant. Yeah. I mean, 801 01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:18,520 you know, if if you've got an area where you've got very active guides 802 01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:23,560 such as such as yourself, like and and and like Paul for instance, 803 01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:30,079 then it can seem as if and Mick down in you know, around Bolton 804 01:11:30,199 --> 01:11:32,920 and so on, it can seem seem like they are hot spots, whereas 805 01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:38,920 in fact there's probably other areas as well in between where things have been seen. 806 01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,199 It's just that that you're not you're not finding out about them because you're 807 01:11:42,239 --> 01:11:46,039 not you're not spreading your net out as wide as as you possibly could, 808 01:11:46,079 --> 01:11:51,039 because you want to concentrate quite rightly on on on a specific area. Absolutely, 809 01:11:51,239 --> 01:11:54,640 yeah. And so other hope is that you know, other people can 810 01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:58,199 fill in the Black Banks and the other other locations, and if we could 811 01:11:58,239 --> 01:12:00,880 do that all across the world, I think it could could prove fairly interesting, 812 01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:06,720 you know, absolutely, Yeah, Yeah, that's brilliant. So yeah, 813 01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:11,880 well, I mean we've we've covered an awful lot of stuff there. 814 01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:15,920 And as I said at the beginning before before we started chatting, we do 815 01:12:16,159 --> 01:12:18,760 tend to go off with a bit of a tangent at points, or I 816 01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:24,079 do like I do like my guests to go off at tangents. Is Is 817 01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:27,800 there any contact details for you, David, in case anybody wants to get 818 01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:31,760 in contact with you or report anything to you. Yeah, I could give 819 01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:36,640 you an email address and the phone and one well, an email address if 820 01:12:38,319 --> 01:12:42,159 we'll be fine if people want to contact you. Yeah, it's David A. 821 01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:47,039 Caydon. That's c A. Y G O. N. Yeah at 822 01:12:47,119 --> 01:12:53,880 hotmail dot com. Okay, So if if anybody's got any any interesting cases, 823 01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:58,119 any mutilation cases or anything like that, they can they can drop your 824 01:12:58,239 --> 01:13:00,960 line. Does that'd be good? Yeah? Yeah, and late people can 825 01:13:01,079 --> 01:13:11,039 contact you through well sorry on Facebook. Yeah, UFOs over Pendule is a 826 01:13:11,039 --> 01:13:13,960 page I have on there, so people contact me through there, or I 827 01:13:14,079 --> 01:13:18,720 do have an email which is Lee dot or m Oscar Mike is at hotmail. 828 01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:21,760 It's a dot coort at UK that one though, Okay, no problem. 829 01:13:23,279 --> 01:13:25,720 Well, it's been a pleasure talking to you both. Thank you both 830 01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,239 for coming on. As I said, we've we've covered a lot of subjects 831 01:13:28,319 --> 01:13:32,560 and I'm sure will we'll be able to have more discussions in the future or 832 01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:34,840 some lights to have you both back. And in fact, David, I'd 833 01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:39,239 like to talk to you about crop circles at some point, if that's okay. 834 01:13:40,359 --> 01:13:45,520 I'm just I'm just conscious that we've gone quite quite a long time on 835 01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,279 this particular podcast. So if you've got a quick minute, I'll tell you 836 01:13:48,359 --> 01:13:53,199 a very quick short crop crop circle story if you're interested, Yeah, sure, 837 01:13:53,279 --> 01:13:55,880 gone then yet before we sign off, So I mean, I guess 838 01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:59,039 might have to refer back to my previous interview where we talked about the Forward 839 01:13:59,079 --> 01:14:02,399 family. Yeah, businesses in bonn Halswick during that period of time, and 840 01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:06,520 there was actually a crop circle in barn Halswick, just on the outskirts of 841 01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:11,079 town. There was a corn field at the time, and I heard about 842 01:14:11,079 --> 01:14:15,439 this circle, so I went down to investigate. Mel didn't tell me about 843 01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:16,600 it. I don't think he even knew about it, to be honest with 844 01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:20,720 you, but it was probably a couple of years into his experiences. So 845 01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:26,319 things have been in the paper, if you will. Yeah. So anyway, 846 01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:29,199 we got there and it was a union formation, you know, the 847 01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:33,319 classic black and white symbol. So you know, the best I could do 848 01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:35,399 at that time was get up a tree and have a look, try and 849 01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:39,640 get a picture and stuff, which I did. But in order to investigate, 850 01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:41,960 what I thought is, well, how are you going to fake a 851 01:14:42,039 --> 01:14:44,800 crop circle? If you're going to fake one, you're going to use a 852 01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:46,359 compass essentially, aren't you. So so I thought, well, I'll look 853 01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:49,560 in the center of the hall and I'll see if I can fight in the 854 01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:54,000 circle and see if I can find a hole. And sure enough I did, 855 01:14:54,119 --> 01:14:56,960 and I found like a steakhole. You know, if you're sharpen a 856 01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:00,600 steak, what's the four sides? It was. He was quite deep in 857 01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:02,960 the center, and I thought, well, that's you know, interesting, 858 01:15:03,199 --> 01:15:06,560 could be a coincidence. So let me go, what would I do next 859 01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:10,399 to create the small circle? You're gonna have to put one in there, 860 01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:13,800 right, So I went and check out and they were one there as well. 861 01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:16,479 So you know, I'm not speaking for all crop circles, but I'm 862 01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:20,560 pretty sure a lot of more art pieces, but that one certainly was was 863 01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:25,600 man made. And how ironic that it was made in a location that's so 864 01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:29,199 active, you know what I mean, and somebody like me was like in 865 01:15:29,279 --> 01:15:33,479 the midst of investigating a really interesting case, you know, comes across it 866 01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:38,960 and actually manages to dink it. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, 867 01:15:39,159 --> 01:15:43,680 the crop circles are a whole different subject for discussion, aren't they. 868 01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,760 As I say, it's one that I'd like to talk about with you guys 869 01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:53,560 at some point in the future, if that's okay. Well, it's been 870 01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:55,920 a pleasure having you both, and thanks for giving up your time. It's 871 01:15:55,960 --> 01:16:00,479 been a fascinating sort of hour and fifteen minutes. I think we've been on 872 01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:03,800 now almost now in twenty minutes. Really great subjects, really interesting stuff. 873 01:16:05,159 --> 01:16:09,279 Yeah, thanks very much. Guys and hopefully I'll speak to you both soon. 874 01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:13,720 Okay, thank you, Greg, No, thank you. You can 875 01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:19,199 visit my website at www dot Craig Bryant dot co dot uk. Paranormal Pendule 876 01:16:19,319 --> 01:17:03,960 will return and remember to keep watching the shadows and