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In a comedic saga of an Iowa
town hall, former presidential hopeful Vivick Ramaswami

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faces a cosmic challenge how to charm
atheists even if you're hungry, be cautious

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when trying to digest this word salad, where Christian nationalism gets a downplay,

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wokeism takes center stage, and secular
values do the cha cha. The theatrics

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hit a high note when a question
about school bibles spots lights Ramaswami's dance with

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inconsistency. Protagonist Justin Scott, seeking
enlightenment, gets an unexpected eviction, turning

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the town hall into a political vaudeville, and this hilarious Heartland circus, the

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Quest for Genuine Answers unveils the struggle
with reality that atheist voters face. This

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story is from The Friendly Atheist by
Hemmett Metta on January sixth, twenty twenty

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four. Vivic to be generous is
quite an amazing campaign, and the attempt

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to run against someone that you refuse
to run against it is absolutely mind boggling

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that you can do that. But
his answer to this quest question does show

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that same inability or unwillingness to be
pinned down. You know, he would

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prefer to ooze his way out of
some uncomfortable situation into what a pre recorded

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track of comfort, because that's really
what he did in this particular word salad,

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and I think that is a very
valid of particular putrid word salad.

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He was asked about the dangers of
that Christian nationalism posed, and he completely

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dismissed that and went right back to
us Christian nationalist right wing talking points.

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I don't feel that's a major threat
now. And when the person Scott mentioned

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January sixth, he's like, I
feel like wokeism and transgenderism is did I

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miss where a herd of woke assist
came storming out of there, you know,

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in the churches and temples forcing reassignment
surgery to people at random. You

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know, I don't know what this
guy's talking about. He's just running the

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same old, tired refrain that we
hear over and over again, and we've

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heard it the last few election cycles. Fortunately, as we've discussed before,

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I do think that it is wearing
thin. If they bring the same old

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routine to the party. I do
think that it's going to be a long

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road for people like that because he's
just playing to his bass, you know,

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which is really odd to me because
you know, understanding this base does

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happen to be white and evangelical.
That's the song you play. But a

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Hindu carrying water for the white Christian
nationalists? How nice phoebe? You think

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it sounds like what's his name?
The Prime Minister of the UK, Rishi

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Suda. A Hindu carrying the water
for the you know, the Christian country

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that's run by the Anglican Church in
the UK, would be weird. It's

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not just a bit weird when we
see that we have previously talked about,

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you know, a Hindu Prime Minister
of the UK in what is a country

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with established to the Church, and
it's just very weird when you do see

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Hindus and Muslims propping up Christian establishment. It's just just go, I don't

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get it. I don't get it. But reading this article, I found

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one thing to be very telling of
society at large, particularly every politician on

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the face of this earth written large, and every person that's a talking head

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written large, including the four of
us, is that we don't actually recite

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things the way that they were actually
undertaken. And I think it's an indictment,

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particularly on the political class of the
world, when it's embellished to the

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point that it's no longer a reflection
of what actually happened. Because at the

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first town hall, when the question
was asked, it was answered in a

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certain way. At the second town
hall it was anecdotalized for the crowd in

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a way there had no bearing on
what had actually occurred. I mean,

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everyone's guilty of it, every talking
head under the sun, the four of

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us this week, the four of
us next week, and the four of

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us in the future. We'll all
be guilty of it to some degree.

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But it's when we are called out
on it how we react to that.

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How has it reacted to here?
Off your dropped. I'm going to pick

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you up, buy your shirt,
collars, and buy your lapels and you

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know, drag you out like a
British bobby that's had a bit too much

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to see around here, and it's
gone, I don't like what you're doing,

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and them the law has felt your
collar and gone up wait and wiked

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you out. What it's a bit
over the top, I mean, just

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go look, Okay, maybe I
embellish a little bit because you know,

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otherwise it's a boring story. Not
to go oy clearly your collar. Now

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I'm hiking you out like you know, just bonkers. But that's the world

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we live in. Don't tell me
I'm wrong, even if I know I'm

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wrong, and you're the person that
I'm talking about. What one of the

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good things we can say about this
story is that it's pretty much moot in

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the respects, in many respects because
Ramaswami did drop out of the race last

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week, but it is indicative of
a problem that we face as atheists in

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today's United States, because his answer
is not just indicative of his own feelings,

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but how many people on the political
right feel right. So while we

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don't have to worry about what Vivek
thinks anymore, we still have to worry

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about the people that support the far
right movements, the very people that Ramaswami

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was trying to attract. Right.
So when you hear him speak the words

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he did in this town hall,
and you're hearing you are literally hearing the

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words of a lot of Republican voters. And I'm not smart enough to know

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who's right or wrong when it comes
to politics. I can't tell you what

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side you should be on politically,
But if you are an atheist, there

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are candidates out there that do share
some of the same values as you do.

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And I think it's important for us
as atheists, if we want to

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vote for the ideals that we believe
in, for us to be very attentative

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to what these politicians are saying,
especially in an important election year like this.

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So do it. Get out there, look at these people and hear

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what they're saying. I'm not like, again, I'm not going to tell

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you who you should vote for,
but you really really should educate yourself to

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what the people who are running stand
for. Jimmy, you have something you'd

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like to add to that. Yeah, On that note, I think that

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people will tell you who they are
and you should listen to them. Right

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for somebody to say that a coup
attempt on the United States is less of

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a threat or not a threat,
Where someone who questions the gender that they

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were assigned at birth is a threat, well, that person's letting you know

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exactly who they are and exactly who
they're really here to serve. But on

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another level, getting back to the
article, vivik Ramaswami himself lost me at

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so here is what I believe there
may be points in our history where that

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would be applicable. Talking about the
checkered past of Christianity or of religion in

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general and the atrocities that have come
from it, Well, that is a

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disingenuous approach and an attempt to kind
of water down the abusive and destructive history

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of religion. So I have to
kind of look at that and say,

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well, this guy's full of it. You know, anything that comes out

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of his mouth is untrustworthy at best. And that's a problem for me because

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I can't believe the promise he is
thus like pretending to make when he says

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that we all have the right to
live freely without anyone standing in their way.

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How does he say something like that
and then goes on to say that

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Thomas Jefferson, of all people,
is his favorite president. I mean,

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this is a guy who was instrumental
in writing the Constitution and talked about equal

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rights, but then had slaves and
forced them into sexual situations. Thomas Jefferson

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had thirteen illegitimate children with his slaves. Who knows how many times he abused

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them. This is the worst person
to talk about being the vanguard of equal

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rights. So I don't know what
Vivic is even talking about. And this

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just goes to show you somebody that
is not only denying history, but really

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has no idea what they're talking about. And I want to allude to a

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quote that I heard a long time
ago, and I was in a lecture

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and there was a presenter who,
forgive me, I don't remember his name,

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but I never forgot the quote.
He was presenting a lecture on how

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Arabic, the Arabic math system influenced
Western mathematics and the number system. And

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he said, when we deny history, we open the door to abuses of

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our liberty. And I think that
is exactly what happens when you ignore the

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fact that somebody is standing in the
way of your equal rights, but you

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support them anyway, or you don't
listen to them when they tell you exactly

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who they are. So in the
end, I heard nothing but buzzwords liberty,

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freedom, constitution, Thomas Jefferson.
But it's all just a moot point.

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He is appealing to a base that, you know, is it really

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supporting him back. So yeah,
that's what I got on that, Infidel.

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I think you're exactly right on he's
trying to pander to a base that

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didn't really support him. But once
again, that goes back to exactly having

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the lack of intestinal fortitude to actually
run against the guy you're running against.

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At least you know, he never
even made that step. But the truth

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is is that history has no bearing
whatsoever on almost anything that comes out of

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someone like his mouth, because history
is not where they base their decisions.

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The truth is, I think that
people like this are more in line with

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running against history, not understanding what
is history, because in the long run,

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history is going to judge all of
us. You know, we look

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at different people, and you mentioned
Thomas Jefferson. You know, Thomas Jefferson

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held in a certain esteem in certain
areas at certain times. But it's a

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little difficult regardless of where you stand
in the political spectrum when you go,

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yeah, but he right to slaves. So when it comes down to making

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decisions and what history makes those decisions, I have a sneaking suspicion that people

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like this are going to be looked
rather unkindly in the long run because to

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them, people are political pawns.
They're just things to shift around to make

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their lives or their gain or their
want, their desires something of importance.

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Therefore support me. It has nothing
to do with reality, It has nothing

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to do with the betterment of the
people around them. And that alludes right

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back into what Kelly's saying. Pay
attention to who the people around you and

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what they're saying, because just because
it sounds good and tickles your ears doesn't

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make it right. That's just as
true for his supporters as it is for

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people like us, because sometimes,
just like Phoebe said, when you're called

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out on it, that's when people
learn who you are. Because when you're

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wrong, what is your reaction?
Do you go, Damn, I was

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wrong, I jumped to a conclusion, or do you jump and see up

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out with them, get them out
the door. We don't want to hear

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any more of that. Enough cut
the mic. That's really what it boils

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down to. This raises a wider
question. Is it possible in today's society

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where everything is, you know,
boiled down to a fifteen second sound bite,

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or some disingenuous talking head running out
of candidate with a camera and then

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making up a narrative about things,
or some other lunatic that's hanging out at

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some State Capitol building, changing their
shirts twenty four times, and filming a

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whole day's worth of footage making out
there there every day of the month,

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to actually have a genuine discussion with
somebody and a genuine debate with someone where

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it challenges to positions exist where people
are allowed to go, Hey, I

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listened to the arguments and I changed
my mind or went hey, I came

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in here without a position, and
I made my mind up based on what

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was presented to me. Is that
something that we can do in today's society?

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And if not, where does this
leaders to where society is going with

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entrenchment and what is in effect ignorance. The one thing that really made me

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think the most about this story was
it illustrates how important it is for us

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to build community and normalize atheism.
If atheists were as normal as Christians in

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the USA, do you think we
would get these half asked answers like we

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got. Of course not. Modern
politicians in the USA, on both sides,

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are often quick to run away from
atheists and their questions because they're afraid

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their voters will drop them if they
don't hold these strong Abrahamic values. They

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need to be shown that we are
a political for to be reckoned with.

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There are more atheists now in the
USA than there are Jews, and many

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many politicians catered to the Jewish vote. We need to show them that listening

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to atheists and recognizing that our issues
is not a losing proposition. If there

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is anything I could ever get atheists
to do better, it would be to

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go out in public and let everyone
know that we are here, We're not

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going anywhere, we all vote,
and we're just normal people, just like

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everyone else. I think that is
so important, And I again, like

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I say, I thought this story
really illustrated how important that was for us

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to do that. Jimmy, you
want to you have some other words you'd

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like to say, Well, yeah, I think that your point speaks volumes

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to the fact that this man was
or not vivic, but the person questioning

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him, and forgive me, I
forget the name Justin Scott was removed from

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answer asking these questions. You know. I think that goes to show that

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these politicians don't want to be challenged
by thinking. Uh, you know skeptics,

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you know, people who take the
time to put in the work and

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really think about not only the cosmic
questions about our universe or or history,

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but the rules that govern our everyday
lives. You know, we don't just

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stand there and take what's given to
us. We investigate, we pick it

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apart, and we try to make
it better. And somebody that it comes

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equipped with buzzwords and kind of you
know, these religious these religious fallback points

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really isn't equipped and so instead of
facing the music, will sick their security

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on the atheists to kind of remove
them. And that is a microcosm of

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what we as atheists deal with on
a daily basis and over the course of

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our lives, because people would rather
just toss us to the side that kind

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of hear what we have to say, we're automatically the bad ones, when

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in reality, I think that people
have a lot to gain by listening to

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somebody who thinks critically about well everything. I was a little excited for a

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moment when Kelly was talking about we
need atheists to go out openly in public,

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and I say, okay, talking
about me, talking about me,

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and then he got to the normal
part and I was like, okay,

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so to make a little bit of
normal people, damn it, Infidel like

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you, Kelly. I thought that
Ty was saying a bit more out would

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you know outnusts Now, I will
say that I agree that it's important that

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candidates of all persuasion understand that whether
it's atheists, are just people who are

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outside of religion in general. The
nuns, even the ones that have a

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lot of WU, aren't going to
be so easily swayed by the talking points

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of either side. And that's where
it gets so important for them to understand

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that no, you you going to
talking points and there're certain and I'm old,

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but the gen Zers and some of
the younger ones, they quit listening

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at some point when you start running
some of those talking points. There's a

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huge portion of them that just tune
you out. So I'm hopeful that we

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see a point where you can't just
string along thirty sentences together and make a

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fifteen minute speech just repeating the same
old refrains over and over. With that

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in mind, I guess we'll see
because there's no shortage of politicians out there

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more than willing to try, and
as long as they keep trying, I

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think that's one more reason that is
so important. Like Kelly mentioned, that

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we go out there and say,
you know what, that really doesn't add

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up. And that's not even about
being an atheist, but that's just about

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encouraging critical thinking in people. For
encouraging people because you know what, you

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can go to church, you can
do all those things. That's finding good.

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But if I can get you to
think about, well, maybe I

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don't have a good reason for thinking
what I do. Okay, sit in

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that church pew, I'm glad I'm
not there, but you do that.

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But if I can get you to
think, hey, maybe this isn't the

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way I should be treating or viewing
other people, that's a win all around.

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And I think that's really what we're
all trying to achieve here. And

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with that in mind, I think
I've already said too much already. So

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around the hole, yes or no? Is genuine debate dead, Kelly,

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genuine debate dead? No, I
don't know that. I don't know that

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genuine debate ever got us anywhere anyway. It's good to share ideas, but

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I think debate turns into somebody trying
to win or some or defeat the other

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person. And I don't think that's
the reason why we needed to have a

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debate. We need to have the
debate to share the ideas, and we've

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kind of lost the idea of what
a debate is good for, I think

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at modern times. So Jimmy,
yes, in the political arena, know

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everywhere else ifid I think that,
I'm not sure how valuable debate can be,

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because at the end of the day, only you can change your mind.

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I think it's more important that we
have conversations, and that we have

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conversations in a way that allows people
to think, and that I think is

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far more effective than two, three, or a dozen people yelling at each

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other formally or informally in a debate
or any other setting. Talking to people.

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Well, I say, debate is
all you've got. Debate is just conversation plus