WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:07.320 If we go specifically to our type of architecture, we are creating a dialogue 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:12.000 from not only in the micro, from that particular golf hole that you're playing, 3 00:00:12.279 --> 00:00:16.039 but also in the macro what we like to call a carousel of emotions. 4 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:20.079 It's an eighteen chapter book where it has a plot, the rising action. 5 00:00:20.679 --> 00:00:23.920 We like to design with all of that in mind. So when you're 6 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:28.320 playing one hole, it creates a dialogue with your strategy. But when when 7 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:32.520 you're playing the whole golf course, it's going to have these emotional up and 8 00:00:32.600 --> 00:00:36.719 downs. It's not only the story of a golf hole Part three, Part 9 00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:42.759 four, Part five, heroic strategic penal, It's what the whole storyline of 10 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:46.560 playing one through eighteen is also going to tell you. WELLO, this is 11 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:50.679 Roys Kassoff from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I play golf McCall Golf Club. This 12 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:56.240 is Golf Smarter, Episode nine thirty six. Course design should take the golfer 13 00:00:56.320 --> 00:01:02.960 through a carousel of emotions with architect Doggy Pie Saw. This is Golf Smarter 14 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.680 sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to help you lower your 15 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:14.640 score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome 16 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:19.439 back to the Golf Smarter Podcast Oggy. Hello Fred, excited to be here, 17 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:22.400 as always, great to see you. Great to have you back. 18 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:26.280 It's been almost exactly a year since the last time you were on, and 19 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.680 we learned so much from you. I just couldn't wait to do this again. 20 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:36.599 Was looking at your website. What is the Pisa effect? Oh, 21 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:41.680 well, the pizza piece I effect is something that we like to call of 22 00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:45.439 when we have a saying in our in our in our practice, which is 23 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:49.000 the passion begins when you live the experience. So when you when you sign 24 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:53.959 up with us for us said to do to do, to work together in 25 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:59.560 collaboration with with with a giving development. We believe, we firmly and strongly 26 00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:06.840 believe that you that that our clients uh live an experience, a unique experience 27 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:13.479 throughout the process of of of of design. So it's not just the turning 28 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:16.800 in the end product it is it is about the journey. It is about 29 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:24.840 the the the piside effect, which which uh you know, gives you that 30 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:31.800 opportunity to to live to uh to live your passion. So the passion begins, 31 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:38.719 uh when you live the experience with Okay, well, thank you for 32 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:43.919 correcting me on how to pronounce it. That's yeah, it has a little 33 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:49.759 line on the A, so it's but I know, I mean I understand 34 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:55.080 that that that when it so it's pisa when it gets anglicizes, Hey, 35 00:02:55.199 --> 00:03:00.439 what's pizza. We're not. We're not. We're not as good as a 36 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:05.639 pizza. There's only one z. Not too, but we're trying. We're 37 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:14.560 trying for that. So as a golf course architect, and and I love 38 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:17.960 to try to get into the head of golf course architects. As an amateur 39 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:28.199 golfer, I don't think that we appreciate what an architect does and how we 40 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:32.280 as amateur golfers can take advantage of it when we step up to the first 41 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:37.199 t what we should be looking at, how we should be looking at it. 42 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:40.680 And I would love to be able to use the language of an our 43 00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:46.319 course architect. Well, that's a that's that's a good one, Fred, 44 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:49.800 because at the end, I mean, it's not an intention to add to 45 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:54.039 your swing thoughts. Now, definitely we have enough already, especially as it 46 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:59.039 as you know, as us amateurs going out there, it's like we're already 47 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:01.719 thinking of sixty read things to think about what just on our backs league? 48 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:06.039 So but but I would I would say this, it all depends where you're 49 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:12.479 playing for it because it depends on who was involved, who designed it, 50 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:15.720 uh and to what intention. It all depends on on the why. And 51 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:21.160 that is something again going back to the pside effect to to this process. 52 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:26.639 It is it starts with the why. So the first thing you need to 53 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:31.199 understand as an as a golfer out there on the first T is, am 54 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:35.920 I playing a player's course. Am I playing a resort course? Am I 55 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:40.319 playing a parkland course, am I playing a public course, am I playing 56 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:43.879 got a private all of these? That's the first thing that we need to 57 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.399 understand. Okay, So when you're out there saying, oh this was very 58 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:51.040 easy and very very very you know it doesn't have a lot of character. 59 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:59.800 Well, maybe maybe it's a resort course that is designed for the super average 60 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:04.800 golf for to break one hundred. Yes, if it's a player's course, 61 00:05:04.839 --> 00:05:11.360 then it's going to ask you for some shots. It's going to be designed 62 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:16.120 completely different. A TEPC sawgrass, a you know, a private golf community 63 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:25.040 where where they're handicapped. Their average handicap could be twelve, a player's course, 64 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:30.399 country club or a resort where you know it's you expect people to be 65 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:34.639 a twenty six twenty eight to come in and play the course. So that's 66 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:40.600 the first thing that we need to find out is what are you play in 67 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:46.199 order to at least critique it or try and and decipher what you should be 68 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.199 out there looking at. So once your once you find that out, then 69 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:56.160 then you can look at different features, different aspects, angles of attack, 70 00:05:56.279 --> 00:06:00.920 et cetera. And as we know, golf course up a A well designed 71 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:05.000 golf course should be played or planned from backwards. Yes, where you want 72 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:10.120 your first shot to land in regards to the second, in relationship to the 73 00:06:10.199 --> 00:06:13.839 flag. Uh So it depends on to what level you want to take it. 74 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:19.160 But the first thing that I would recommend is to find out what are 75 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:25.040 you playing and what was the intention of that design and before you go off 76 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:30.480 and critique and uh any any any designer. But when you say, you 77 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:34.920 know, go start from the back and forward, you're talking about start your 78 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:39.439 view from from the green, from the green going back to the t. 79 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:43.000 Yes, if you if you're out there on the first t or you're out 80 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:46.120 there at the clubhouse trying to decipher the golf you know what the what the 81 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:50.439 the architect is trying to communicate with you. Look at the golf course from 82 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:54.279 the back to the front. You know, if you're if you were, 83 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:59.839 if if if it's a short part for and you're and you're, you know, 84 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:09.160 your go to yardage is Okay, where should I put my driver or 85 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:13.800 my initial shot so that I can I can I can have that area around 86 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:17.319 one forty five and I have my money shot at one forty five to hit 87 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.560 that green. So if I hit if it's like I said, if it's 88 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:27.439 a short part four of three fifty three seventy five, uh, and you 89 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:30.720 hit a nice driver, then you're going to be that then you're gonna say 90 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:34.079 you git a two hundred and fifty yard driver. You're at one hundred and 91 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:40.920 fifty, So that's your that's your that's your perfect point for a four hundred 92 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:44.800 yard But if it's a three hundred and fifty, three hundred and seventy yard 93 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.720 part four, then then maybe you should you should tee off with the three 94 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:51.399 wood if your money shot is at one forty three or if you're you know 95 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:56.079 those are I mean, there's a million combinations, but It all depends on 96 00:07:56.160 --> 00:08:00.560 your game, on the on the person's game. And once you're at that 97 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:03.920 level of of golf where you know your game and you know what your money 98 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:09.680 shot is and you're you're confident and you're you're there and you know you're gonna 99 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:11.959 you're gonna flush it and that ball is gonna hit like a dart on the 100 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:16.240 green. That's that's why I mean that you should or you can plan at 101 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:22.040 that level. You can plan to to to to to play the golf course 102 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:26.720 from the from the green to the tee so that you know exactly where you 103 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:31.000 want your ball for your money shot. Part five, the same thing. 104 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:35.399 Par five. Okay, my money shot is one twenty, So where what 105 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:41.559 does it take to put my ball in two shots at that one twenty Because 106 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:45.879 I know that I'm going to hit a dart there from that one twenty on 107 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:50.279 money and I can burdy this thing. So you know, if you're if 108 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:54.879 you're just just hitting it to and just you know, thinking, just thinking, 109 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.600 hey, just landing on the fairway, fair enough, But in order 110 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:03.759 to take your golf to the next level in reading the golf course, that's 111 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:07.279 what you should do. That's what I recommend because you're going to have creaks, 112 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:11.000 you're going to have bunkering. If you have a proper design, you 113 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:16.600 should always read it from the back to the front. And it's that second 114 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:22.720 shot that we're setting up that where the challenge really begins or does it really 115 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:28.080 begin at the T box? No, it should begin. I mean if 116 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:33.919 we if we go specifically to our type of architecture, we're we are creating 117 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:39.600 a dialogue from not not only not only in the micro, from that particular 118 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:43.320 golf hole that you're playing, but also in the macro with what we'd like 119 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:46.080 to call our treasure maps. We're going to be you're going to be on 120 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:54.000 whole number one. Then then then we create what in uh, you know, 121 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:56.240 a band, a musical band would say, this is our set list 122 00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:00.759 for the for our concert tonight. How's that going to change? Well, 123 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:05.080 it depends on if we're if we're you know, what are we going to 124 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:07.200 play tonight? So it's the same. They're gonna take you in a in 125 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:11.279 what we like to call a carousel of emotions. So they're gonna take you. 126 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:15.679 They're gonna start either with a bang, or they're gonna start softly, 127 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:20.399 or they're gonna whatever they they are going to manipulate, per se the audience. 128 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:26.200 It's it's something similar that we like to do with our golf courses. 129 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.919 From one to eighteen. It's an eighteen chapter book per se or a nice 130 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:35.679 you know, or or or a nice play or a nice uh you know, 131 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:41.799 theater, or or where it has a plot, the rising action, 132 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:46.159 the so you we we like to design with all of that in mind. 133 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:50.480 So when you're play in one hole, it creates a dialogue with your strategy. 134 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.440 But when when you're playing the whole golf course, it's gonna have these 135 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:58.120 up and downs, emotional up up and downs. At some point we're going 136 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:01.759 to take a shot off of you. We're going to really challenge you. 137 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:05.919 But maybe the third hole it's going to be like, oh hey, it's 138 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:09.879 wide open, it's there for the taking, there's no bunkers. If I 139 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:16.360 don't score here, then you know, it's it's it's you know, we 140 00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:22.519 can't do much about that one. So but that's how we like to decide. 141 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:28.320 It's not only the story within the frame of a golf hole. Part 142 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:35.360 three, Part four, Part five, Heroic Strategic Penal. It's it's it's 143 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:39.159 what the whole storyline of playing one through eighteen is also going to tell you, 144 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:43.279 Oh my gosh, I have so many more questions just based on that 145 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.679 answer, and we're going to deal with that, but I need to take 146 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:56.480 a break. We'll be back right after this. Now I'm really concerned. 147 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:01.440 I'm where am I going to go with because I had so many questions that 148 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:07.240 I wanted to ask you about. But let's let's keep talking about when you're 149 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:16.559 designing for amateur play. Okay, but do holes get more complicated in design? 150 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:22.159 You know, like where where do you want to put your number one 151 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:28.559 handicap or your number eighteen handicap which is supposed to tell the golfer when they're 152 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:31.519 looking at their scorecard, Oh, this is going to be the most difficult 153 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:37.120 hole on the course. Is your number one and or if you're on the 154 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:41.840 other side, it's number two, could be even. I don't know how 155 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:46.279 do they decide which one's one through the odd numbers on which ones are the 156 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:50.279 even numbers? But in your design, how do you determine Is it the 157 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:56.600 geography that dictates what is going to be your number one and your number eighteen 158 00:12:56.639 --> 00:13:03.000 handicap holes? Yes, well, there's a lot of factors. But the 159 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.360 brief is the number one. What are we going to what do we want 160 00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:09.399 to achieve? Again, is it a players course, is it a resort 161 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:13.399 course, is it a members course? What's the average handicap? All of 162 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:20.799 that? Okay, So it just all depends. And so when you say 163 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:26.200 a player's course, that means, of course you're designing that's going to be 164 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:30.879 on the tour. It could be on the tour, I mean not necessarily 165 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.600 because that all depends on the on the client and there you know, what 166 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:39.440 they want to create for their for their for their project. But it means 167 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.320 that it's going to challenge a player. It means that we are designing for 168 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:50.120 the not necessarily for the for the top players in the world. And now 169 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:52.759 that could be in the proof like what happened at TPC Sargress. You know, 170 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.799 hey, we want to we want we want to challenge the top players 171 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:01.600 in the world. Then that's what Pete I did very fantastically well on that 172 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.840 course. Uh And but that was a brief, that's what he was. 173 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:11.159 He was there to try and make the player's life miserable in that in that 174 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:16.559 particular time. So and it's worked to perfection it's one of the most intriguing 175 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:22.600 uh non majors sad to say out there. So, but it's a terrific 176 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:28.480 it's a terrific course. So it all depends on on what are the needs 177 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:31.960 of the of the place. Because if you're looking at now, let's say 178 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:37.000 that we do create a world class tournament, Now it's a different ballgame because 179 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:43.360 now we have to create areas for television, for for for the uh for 180 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:52.440 all the everything that goes to bringing a huge production of hospitalities uh et cetera, 181 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:56.919 merchantes et cetera, et cetera, merchandising, et cetera. Yes, 182 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:01.399 so that that's a whole different ballgame. Now. Course at that at the 183 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:05.679 regular level that we're talking about, is is a challenging course. Uh, 184 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:11.480 it's a it's a character course. It's it's a long course and uh. 185 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.960 But but obviously you know and for made for for players, so you're not 186 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.320 going to be able to spray it. If you don't, if you don't 187 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:28.480 hit one hundred and twenty feet wide uh land the areas, then then then 188 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:33.639 you're it's not a it's not a golf course made for that for that golf 189 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:37.559 When you said intriguing. Did you mean from Uh, let me ask it 190 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:43.879 this way. Whose perspective are you talking about when you say intriguing, Well, 191 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:46.360 well, you we like to we like to design for the end user 192 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:54.799 in mind. And that is having the brief, the projections, the the 193 00:15:54.840 --> 00:16:00.480 business plan, everything set, the market, et cetera, et cetera, 194 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:04.639 everything set, so that we can come and interpret that and create the best 195 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:11.759 golf development for that brief. So that is the that is the the the 196 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:15.200 the important aspect of of of anything you create. I mean, I'm not 197 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.600 inventing anything. This is if you want to build your house, you need 198 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:23.120 you need you need to uh to be in in good terms with the with 199 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.159 the wife, because we we're gonna be there. You know, what do 200 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:29.360 you want? What do you need? What are your needs? Uh? 201 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.080 What would you like? How would you like the house to flow? Oh? 202 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.480 I like this, Well I want my man cave right here in the 203 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:38.720 in the in the center. Well put it over there in the garage. 204 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:45.600 I mean, just with that. If you if you're not in symphony with 205 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:52.440 and if there's no uh you know, centered synchronicity synergy with that in that 206 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:56.720 aspect, then we're just there kind of like going, okay, so what 207 00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:59.879 do we want? This is going to take a while before we have a 208 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.440 plan when anybody. Yeah, but obviously we come in and and suggest and 209 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:07.799 gives our you know, sometimes we have those projects where it's, hey, 210 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.799 what do you guys recommend? What do you see here? Well, we 211 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:17.680 see this, we see that, but let's let's address this side to make 212 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:22.799 sure that we're in the right direction and we we will create that uh that 213 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:27.359 creative you know, the why for the client as well. Okay, what 214 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:32.880 do you think the percentage of your clients. I I'm not going to talk 215 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:34.680 about the industry, but if your clients come and say, I want a 216 00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:41.480 player's course and I want this to eventually I would love for this to be 217 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:48.480 on the tour, that for us on the tour you not always you sometimes 218 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:55.319 let's say, let's say that two out of ten golf courses that you're kind 219 00:17:55.319 --> 00:18:00.920 of like, you know, visualizing and creating the visual aspect and and the 220 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:06.640 why it is it is like, hey, we are open for for some 221 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:11.279 sort of tour either either I mean this could be all the way from the 222 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:18.160 WGC, uh all the way down or what was the WGC. Either World 223 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:22.440 Golf Championship just as an example, or even the lack the you know, 224 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:26.759 the Latin American Amateur Championship or stuff like that, and for for our Latin 225 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:30.519 American for our Project Star in Latin America. They sometimes they do think of, 226 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:33.880 hey, I would love to host that lack. Well, I mean 227 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:38.759 these guys they're amateurs, but they they I mean that the distance now from 228 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:45.400 from that level to the tour level, it's college level. It's it's it's 229 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:48.640 been uh, it's getting closer. It's getting closer. That's what That's what's 230 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.759 been happening in the past, in the past probably seven to ten years, 231 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:57.000 that that gap is not as you see more amateurs making the cuts. You 232 00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:03.599 see more amateurs I mean mature. But we just won this year, and 233 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:10.200 so that gap is getting closer. It's not like it's the amateur and let 234 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:15.119 him participate. No, he's there to he's there to compete. And that's 235 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.359 that's the beauty of what's happening. One of the beauties that that that's what's 236 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.960 happening in golfering, or at least in competitive golf. Well, as we 237 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:26.559 learned last week our guests John Marshall is I think was John Marshall who was 238 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:33.200 talking about how the gap between a scratch golfer and an eighteen handicap is closer 239 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:37.680 than scratch golf to a tour player. Well, that's yeah, that's a 240 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.160 different perspective. That's another Would you agree with that? I mean, especially 241 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:45.240 from your personetive facts. But if I had to to to bet on that, 242 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:48.880 I would put out I would say yes. Okay, I would say 243 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:53.400 yes because I I can go out right now and play with the scratch golfer, 244 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:57.160 a regular street scratch golf like a buddy of mine. That's that's zero 245 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.519 or whatever, right, because I you know, at the at the end, 246 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.079 it's it's there. It's their indexes zero zero, zero, zero, 247 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.119 whatever it is. But but you know that you can go out there and 248 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:10.880 they're going to still make a lot of mistakes. You're gonna have fun, 249 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:14.200 et cetera, et cetera. And the problem is with the scratch golfers that 250 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:17.359 think that they can be in the tour. And that's the problem when you 251 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:19.240 have that attitude mixed. I'm like, man, come on, man, 252 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:23.799 just to just to try and qualify, you need to be a plus six 253 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:30.960 like on on a regular like a consistent basis, you need to be a 254 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.680 plus six, So don't give me that that your club. Definitely, definitely 255 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:40.240 the scratch golfer to the level of the tour player. I believe that it's 256 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:47.000 longer than the than the than the than the the other one that you mentioned 257 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.759 on a regular eighteen handicap. Well, I mean, like, uh, 258 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:56.119 I have a single digit index, but I also play a slope of you 259 00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:02.200 know, one twenty five two in there, and you put me on a 260 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.279 course that's got a slope of a one thirty three, one thirty five, 261 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:10.759 I'm shooting in the nineties. And that's why I play the white tees. 262 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.599 Yes, I don't. I don't see a reason to make golf any harder 263 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:18.240 than it already is. So we know, so well, sure I'll play 264 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:22.799 the white teas well. You know it's golf. Golf is one of the 265 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:27.680 one of the oldest ways to to commit masochism in the world. So I'll 266 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:33.799 watch it. So hey, we you know it's it's just it's it's a 267 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:38.240 full on suffering out there. We love to suffer. We love we love 268 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:41.480 it out there. And uh, I still have to I still have to 269 00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:48.480 meet fred a golfer that is happy with their golf game at any level, 270 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:52.640 at any love. I've known one. I had a barber. I had 271 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:56.000 a barber who said, oh yeah, I'm a good golfer. I've never 272 00:21:56.079 --> 00:22:00.079 met another businesses Yep, I'm a good golfer. Rest is soul? All 273 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:08.960 right, another time out, we'll be right back. Last time that we 274 00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:14.400 talked, you introduced a concept that I was absolutely blown out by in the 275 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:19.880 butterfly design. Can you give us an update on that? Explain it first 276 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:23.079 for those who didn't get to chance to hear it last time, and also 277 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:27.000 any updates. Yes, I love it, well, thanks for asking, 278 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:33.480 freend Yes, we are. We've been described as concept creators, so it's 279 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:38.920 not the only concept that we have designed. I've been creating concepts, you 280 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:45.960 know, since twenty seventeen that I think that we've we've really created a lot 281 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:51.839 of concepts that are now known. But I've the butterfly golf is a four 282 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:56.599 loop of nine. So just imagine a butterfly, you know, body, 283 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:02.759 where the center is the body of the butterfly, where the center of gravity. 284 00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:06.759 The four loops come back to that center of gravity. So when you're 285 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:11.279 playing an eighteen whole golf course, you only need three of the wings, 286 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:15.240 you know, because there's three loops of six and there's always one that's free. 287 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:21.599 So with that said, if you can create all sorts of combinations that 288 00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:27.200 are really permutations, because you don't care where whole number one is, so 289 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:32.720 it's if it's one through six on each one to add eighteen, you can 290 00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:37.480 play you know, a root A Let's say that the roots are A, 291 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.759 B and C and D. So you can play A B and C, 292 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:45.640 and then a C and B, and then a B and D and then 293 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:51.720 a C and D, A D and c H there for each for each 294 00:23:51.880 --> 00:24:02.079 letter there's six different combinations. So you're playing twenty four combination. So to 295 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:07.400 cut a long story short, it is in twenty four days that you could 296 00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:11.200 be there on this resort or whatever. In twenty four days, you will 297 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:15.640 not repeat the same routing, and you will be able to play an eighteen 298 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:19.440 hole, par seventy, par seventy one, or par seventy two, depending 299 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:23.480 on the combination that you've played. And six holes will always be open to 300 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:33.960 social gatherings or or you know, conventions, et cetera. And also this 301 00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:41.400 is a kind of like a school yard for all sorts of levels because joining 302 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:48.920 the inside of this of this concept design, it's also we take you know, 303 00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:55.160 for SI, there will be six holes that are catered to beginners, 304 00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:56.799 you know, like like ten year olds, eight year old, six year 305 00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:02.880 olds that have their extra tee and that and that have that strategy just for 306 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.519 them. But obviously you can use it on a like on a regular golf 307 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:11.880 course. But these are things that we are thinking of creating. In one 308 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:17.160 of our projects. Another six would be catered to the uh, you know, 309 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:22.119 the best female golfers. Yes, that speaking of second shots, that's 310 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.119 where the situation, that's where the problem is. It's not just cutting the 311 00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:33.880 t box to to to whatever yardage is. It's it's what's their angle of 312 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:40.519 of trajectory and attack on the green when they're one hundred and eighty yards away 313 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.920 or two twenty on a short part five. Uh, that's the difference in 314 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:49.720 that angle from the from the gentleman players to the female players. There it's 315 00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:53.799 a it's it's there's a lot of change in the trajectory of the ball. 316 00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:59.200 So the golf course needs to be designed in a different way to catch or 317 00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:03.039 to attract or to lure these players into going for it, and and and 318 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:07.960 and getting it on the green. Uh. So all of these things is 319 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:12.799 what we factor in to betterfly golf. I don't want to I don't know 320 00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.279 how deep you want to go into this, but I think that this is 321 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:19.440 I have an explanatory video. Now you're gonna send it to you and maybe 322 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:22.920 maybe maybe it can be part of the addition. Oh yeah, no, 323 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:26.039 I'll definitely link to it. We'll definitely link to it on the on the 324 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.119 show notes, no question. So does I just love the idea because I've 325 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:34.359 always loved the idea of round, you know, six hole increments versus nine 326 00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:38.319 hole increments, and so it makes so much sense. And then by adding 327 00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:44.880 that fourth loop, I would think that the maintenance people would absolutely love this 328 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:49.000 concept because that is another thing. It's for maintenance. Uh, it's it's 329 00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:53.319 for experimenting, if you want it's maintenance. It's uh, it's that if 330 00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:56.160 you're conscious of time, you can play. If you're there for a week, 331 00:26:56.599 --> 00:27:00.839 you you can play six sols, you know, for days, and 332 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:06.759 you'll you'll play a different hole obviously you can depending on operations because this all 333 00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:11.039 depends on on on how busy the day is or the or the or the 334 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.240 season is, but you would be able to operate, you know, having 335 00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:17.880 a nine hole loop, a twelve hole loop, a six hole loop, 336 00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:22.039 and so all of that can be mixed. It's a multi multi use area 337 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:27.960 that that would depend on the on on what what what you and your customers 338 00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:33.799 want to want to live as an experience in in the in the butterfly golf 339 00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:37.519 and when it work with this concept, you hope work for any type of 340 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:44.559 course, resort players, membership, yes, and you can even you can 341 00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:47.440 even mix it nuch and if you want to get let's say that if you 342 00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:52.200 want to practice if it depends on who you you cater for. But maybe 343 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:56.240 let's say that this butter that let's say that a butterfly concept is in is 344 00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:00.480 in Palm Beach, or in Florida or where you know that Arizona where you 345 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.960 know that a lot of professional players live. I mean we we can create 346 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.599 this as I mean, one wing can be a resort, the other wing 347 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:12.799 can be you know tour player, female tour players. The other wing can 348 00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:21.000 be as the male tour players and really challenge each each sixes and then there's 349 00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:26.039 a complete eighteen hole golf course where you'll have the different experiences of how a 350 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:30.160 golf course is played. So yes, we can mix and match and and 351 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:37.000 and cater for the necessities of of of that particular project or your end your 352 00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:45.599 end consumer. And you know you mentioned Florida and Arizona, which mostly we're 353 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:51.000 talking about level land flat land, especially Florida, right, but here I 354 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:55.559 live in northern California. There's a lot of ventulation everywhere. You're familiar with 355 00:28:55.599 --> 00:29:00.680 it. You live in California San Diego as well. It's not just flat. 356 00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:07.680 Would this concept be adaptable in areas that aren't just a level course? 357 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:11.440 Yes, of course. It all depends on the land whenever you have and 358 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:17.160 that happens on every on every level, even designing a regular eighteen old golf 359 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:21.359 course. When you when you see the land, when the land is there, 360 00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:25.160 and let's say that you have let's say that that there's like, oh, 361 00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.440 we have a five hundred acre piece of land. Oh, it sounds 362 00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:33.119 beautiful, But how's the topography. If the topography is like this, then 363 00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:37.799 you don't have a five hundred piece of land, because you know, half 364 00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:42.359 of it is counts as the as the as the sheer drops and ups, 365 00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:45.680 and so the only thing you can use are the top parts or the middle 366 00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:48.799 or the valley parts, but that at the end of the day, we 367 00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.799 have one hundred and eighty acres to play with, you know. So it 368 00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:59.279 depends if if you have if you have whatever, five hundred acres in Florida, 369 00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:03.160 usually you can use them all unless you're on wetland and stuff like that. 370 00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:07.160 Then you have like sixty percent wetland, Well you're not going to use 371 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.200 that as well, you know. So it depends on environmental It depends on 372 00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:18.960 your on your topography, a relationship. Those are the two things that are 373 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:25.920 going to dictate at the end how much land you really have to play with. 374 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.480 So yeah, it depends like here in California, let's say that over 375 00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:32.759 there up where we live in this I mean, you know that there's a 376 00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:40.240 lot of us ups and downs and everything. So if the it would probably 377 00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:45.599 be a bigger on paper, we would probably have a bigger land. But 378 00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:49.799 it's not necessarily a bigger one. It's just it's just that the topo map 379 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:55.359 reads five hundred acres, but you can only use two hundred, Yeah, 380 00:30:56.359 --> 00:31:00.200 because the other ones are impossible to go in or there, or they're part 381 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:06.480 of of a park of a national forest or so all of that starts increasing 382 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:11.519 decreasing your piece of land, especially if if if you're if you want to 383 00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:18.920 do things right and uh and and not you know, not disturbs the important 384 00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:25.359 important areas in nature, right I have in mind, of course that I'm 385 00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:30.880 sure many people have not played h Tpcdune Sante Bay in Mexico in the retto, 386 00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:34.279 which kind of snakes through the mountains. I mean there's a couple of 387 00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:41.079 level holes there side by side, but mostly it's snaking through mountain areas. 388 00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.480 So, yes, that was it. That was a beautiful layout by Rhys 389 00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:49.039 Jones. Yeah, beautiful layout. And then you come up over the top 390 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:52.440 on number seventeen and you're out there at the Sea of Cortez and it's like 391 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:57.240 wow, yeah, this is breath tanking. Yeah. And anyone else ever 392 00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:00.839 had a chance go to this cold of course? Yes, yes, please, 393 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:06.799 yeah. And it's playable. I mean it's halfway halfway from San Diego 394 00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:10.759 to Cabo right, so but on the eastern inside, on the inside of 395 00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:15.440 the Sea of Court. Beautiful place. I love that place. That's why 396 00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:21.960 we became member owners in that time share. Nice good, Yeah, No, 397 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:27.960 I love that place. So tell me as far as the butterfly design, 398 00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:37.200 what's the reaction been and are there any in design and operation? Where 399 00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:40.119 are we with it? Not yet in operation, but yes, it's it's 400 00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:45.240 uh and thank you for asking. I'm not going to be able to disclose 401 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:51.319 on this show anyway yet. But we do have our first one, this 402 00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:58.079 one, I wouldn't worry about that. I love it. So so we 403 00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:06.240 do have three on the on on paper and that should and will begin construction 404 00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:12.920 this year twenty twenty four and uh in twenty twenty five, and uh so 405 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:15.759 we're very proud of that because you know, and it's it's it's kind of 406 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:19.960 funny, but this is how things work, and this is how creativity is 407 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:22.880 up there in the air. Great ideas are up there in the air. 408 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:28.559 If you're in the right frequency with the right sensitivity, you it's just you 409 00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:30.920 can bring down the ideas. I mean, so it's it's it was hard 410 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:35.160 to believe when we first came up with this concept of the four loops of 411 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:37.319 six. And you know that loops of six is not a is not a 412 00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:43.440 secret. Three loops of six is not a secret. But it's not done. 413 00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:47.200 Years in five hundred years of golf's existence, nobody thought of four loops 414 00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:53.319 of six and the and the combinations that you have right right. So it's 415 00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:57.440 been it's been great. It's been a great. When we pitched this to 416 00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:01.039 our to our clients, it's they love it. If they have land, 417 00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:05.079 they go for it. And I've told them, if you have the land, 418 00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:07.440 I would never design another eight hole golf course again. I mean, 419 00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:12.039 let's go for the twenty four because more is less. I mean, you 420 00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:16.760 do six holes more, but you're not going to invest ever in a twenty 421 00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:23.400 seven or a thirty six golf complex because you don't need to. Yes, 422 00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:30.360 right, you have twenty four golf courses right here now, unless you're going 423 00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:35.599 to build twenty thousand houses. That's a different we're going to have a different 424 00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:42.039 volume. But for a regular volume, for a regular master planned community, 425 00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:45.599 resort, master planned community or something like that, you're going to have fifty 426 00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:52.960 seventy one hundred rounds a day. It's more than plenty, more than plenty. 427 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:57.880 And it's a great solution. You can come out of the twenty seven 428 00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:00.800 whole layout, thirty six who layout. You know, it's better for the 429 00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:06.199 environment, better for water, better for space, it gives you, it 430 00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:10.079 gives you, you know, still a very good housing development. But but 431 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:15.280 you you you know, for for for water usage, for all of that. 432 00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:20.639 It is. It is a great example of sustainability as well. All 433 00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:30.719 right, one more break. We'll be back in sixty seconds. For a 434 00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:35.679 normal Uh, let's just say there's a housing development being made and they're going 435 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:39.519 to have five hundred homes. I don't know what a housing development is. 436 00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:44.079 They want to put a golf course in there. How much land do you 437 00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:49.119 need for the golf course, the practice area, the driving range, what? 438 00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:53.480 What is what's required? Generally? I know can't be because it can 439 00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:58.119 range. Yeah, they do whatever, And it depends on the on the 440 00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:00.199 on the type of on the use of land that you have. If you 441 00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:05.079 go go vertical, you know, for a golf course, we're gonna need 442 00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:08.880 we're gonna need one hundred and eighty two hundred let's just round up the numbers. 443 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:15.079 Two hundred acres, okay, So and that's the land. That doesn't 444 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:17.559 mean that the golf course is going to to be there. Maybe for the 445 00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:22.840 golf course, just for the grass, you're gonna you're gonna grasp one hundred 446 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:25.320 acres. I don't know. I'm just just to round up numbers. So 447 00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:31.199 if you use two hundred half of it, per se will be grassed. 448 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:35.679 Okay, now this is don't take this literally. This is just an exercise 449 00:36:35.719 --> 00:36:39.880 for for for for whoever's listening, maybe maybe my grandma is something else, 450 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:46.239 Just kidding, So just just to round up some numbers. So that's just 451 00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:52.400 the lot that we need for safety precautions. So those that's the quarridor that 452 00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:59.440 you need to you know, to uh to save the housing development from from 453 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:04.400 having that many golf hold balls hit or et cetera. You're always going to 454 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:09.760 have that that that uh, you know, percentage of balls that are that 455 00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:15.159 that go outside the corridors. We we all know that we all have been 456 00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:21.960 there, so windy day, more windy, et cetera, that's gonna happen. 457 00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:25.400 So with that in mind, that's what you need for a regular eighteen 458 00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:30.039 old championship. That includes the driving rains and and short game facility, and 459 00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:36.239 and and cutting green clubhouse and marking love not in as No, that's different. 460 00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:40.280 That's just just a golf corridor of everything that has to do with golf. 461 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:44.800 Okay, yes, but you still need the back of the house. 462 00:37:44.840 --> 00:37:49.119 You still need your maintenance facility, you still need your your clubhouse. I 463 00:37:49.159 --> 00:37:53.320 don't know if your clubhouse is going to be twenty thousand square feet or two 464 00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:59.480 or or two hundred square feet or or or two hundred thousand square feet. 465 00:37:59.719 --> 00:38:01.920 Why because I don't know if you're going to need a convention center. I 466 00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:06.800 don't know if you're going to do weddings or not. So all of that 467 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:10.679 factors in right. That's why you can't really say, ah, it includes 468 00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:15.400 this, because what's again, what's the brief? What what what are we 469 00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:22.480 doing this for? We're doing this for for to host a PGA show every 470 00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:29.400 year in Orlando. Well, then then your clubhouse, convention center is is 471 00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:31.800 going to be We're going to need more land. So all we're going to 472 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:37.880 we're going to cater for a PGA tour, Well, then we're going to 473 00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:40.800 need more land because we need hospitality, we need all the trailers. I 474 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:45.079 mean there's I don't know how many trailers there are out there, you know, 475 00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:52.159 but every time I'm touring a you know, a or I'm in some 476 00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:57.960 sort of a tour event, there's fifty trailers out there. I mean, 477 00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:04.840 you know, from television to equipment to bah blah, so that parking lot 478 00:39:05.280 --> 00:39:09.320 and then the regular parking so that changes again. So when you ask, 479 00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:15.800 I mean, what is what is? What is that? What are we 480 00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:20.280 catering for at the end of the day, But for the golf course, 481 00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:23.519 that's what you need and then the rest. Then what are we doing? 482 00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:30.559 Multi housing development? One family home development vertical? We can go to thirty 483 00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:37.639 thirty stories thirty story building because we're right close to the city. I don't 484 00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:40.519 know, so that that all depends. The important thing is to come up 485 00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:49.679 with that good factor of housing per golf per rounds so that we know that 486 00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:57.079 we're doing the right thing in regards to the business plan and we have a 487 00:39:57.159 --> 00:40:01.800 successful project for our clients. So I'm not going to ask you to be 488 00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:07.119 specific about anything, and if I if you can't even answer these questions, 489 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:13.119 don't. But I'm just curious about the people that have shown interest and will 490 00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:16.119 be developing a butterfly type type golf course. Is it the United States? 491 00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:21.800 Yes, one in Europe, one in the United States, and one in 492 00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:28.400 Mexico. Wow, can you give a state in the United States? Can't 493 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:30.199 even go that? Okay, then I'm done with that yet. Not yet. 494 00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:34.719 That's what I do. So you can you can invite me back in 495 00:40:34.840 --> 00:40:37.840 it. Oh I can't wait. No, no, no, no, 496 00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:42.000 I love I love having you on because you really help you put things in 497 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:50.239 perspective overall. Have you had uh pitches to to potential clients and you gave 498 00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:58.280 them this idea and they're like, no, yeah, well luckily we don't 499 00:40:58.280 --> 00:41:02.000 get the silly thing. Uh. We raise eyebrows and that's good, that's 500 00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:07.360 good. But they're thinking, but it's not. But it's not in the 501 00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:09.159 in the format, you know, it's not in the format. It's like 502 00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:14.039 no, you know, we we we we're a little bit more conservative. 503 00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:17.119 We want the eight old golf course fair enough, perfect or maybe sometimes we're 504 00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:21.960 doing a short game facility. You know, we're working with a top tequila 505 00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:28.320 brand right now that that we're going to do their their short game cool sexy. 506 00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:31.440 Uh you know, part three course short, part three course in their 507 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:36.000 hacienda for tequila, one of the top producers in tequila in the world. 508 00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:37.840 That you're going to love that one. But I can't disclose it the Navy 509 00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:42.320 yet. But those things that we love to do, those things that we 510 00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:47.599 love to do that that also comes in the equation. So just to try 511 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:52.360 and answer your question on a to maybe in another in another perspective, with 512 00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:58.440 another view. We're very lucky right now, Fred that that clients that call 513 00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:02.639 us, they call us because they want something unique. They call us because 514 00:42:02.679 --> 00:42:07.920 they're looking for something cool, something sexy, something original, something that's that's 515 00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:15.320 a little bit you know, out there, but still respecting the integrity of 516 00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:17.960 the game. So that's where we're at. That's our sweet spot right there. 517 00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:23.079 We do we can do traditional, yes, we love it. Yes, 518 00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:30.039 but clients right now are calling us because of our of our unique approach. 519 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:32.400 So that's pretty cool too. That's very cool. Congratulations. If we 520 00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:36.079 could be the friend, if we could be the with all due respect to 521 00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:38.079 Frank Getty, if we could be the Frank Getty of golf, I'm in 522 00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:45.440 yeah, I would think so, I would think. So tell me about 523 00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:49.119 Wellness Golf. I also saw on your website you had Wellness Golf. Yes, 524 00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:52.800 that is one of our concepts. That is our less is More collection 525 00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:58.559 and that is you know, something that we created seven years ago now, 526 00:42:58.599 --> 00:43:04.000 twenty seventeen, where we started. I created a list of uh in in 527 00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:06.719 our in our design studio, We're like, okay, what is golf. 528 00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:09.920 Everybody's talking about growing the game, nobody's doing anything about it. What is 529 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:15.239 golf? That's that's and this was this was in twenty seventeen. Though so 530 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:21.400 uh so, well, golf is intimidating, it's time consuming, it's judgmental, 531 00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:27.840 it's uh, it's it's it's land consuming, resource consuming. List. 532 00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:32.400 Okay, what can we do to counter that list? So let's create a 533 00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:37.480 concept that's going to call wellness golf. We're going to take invite people to 534 00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:40.800 take their shoes off, to connect with nature, to forget about the slope, 535 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:46.440 to forget about the rating, to just play primitive golf. And that's 536 00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:51.559 that's that's what we talked about. Primitive golf. You find the ball, 537 00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:54.519 you find the club, Let's go play horse, let's have fun, let's 538 00:43:54.519 --> 00:44:00.000 connect with nature. There's nothing, there's no scorecard, there's nothing out there. 539 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:04.320 It's a it's a it's a short game area, short game facility where 540 00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:08.039 depending on the on the project, we created one hundred and eighty yard shots 541 00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:13.960 or sixty yard shot shots. But but the important thing is for you or 542 00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:17.800 for us to to to to to you know, to connect with nature, 543 00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:24.360 to forget about golf as we know it, uh at that time and uh 544 00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:29.199 and and it's great. I mean that that is that is what we call 545 00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:34.239 wellness golf. Is those types of of projects that have been luckily picking up 546 00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:37.119 and that and that you can see now all over the place. Not not 547 00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:42.000 that we not not because of us, but funny enough, you know, 548 00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:46.800 the Cradle was was was born at the same time as the as chub Let 549 00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:52.800 wellness uh wellness wellness golf and many that we were doing. And we and 550 00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:55.079 I didn't know that that that that the Cradle was going on. So so 551 00:44:55.119 --> 00:45:00.639 it's pretty cool that that you know, it's it's the again at that uh, 552 00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:06.440 that creative those creative waves were out there in the universe just and and 553 00:45:06.559 --> 00:45:10.679 we were thinking, you know, doing some something different out there. So 554 00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:14.599 are there places that I can ask Now, it's like, can we go 555 00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:17.239 out and see that? Yes, of course you can go out and see 556 00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:22.480 it. On on in La Pause down in the Baja, we created a 557 00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:30.280 special place inside an area where there's an existing Gary Player course, the only 558 00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:34.119 Gary Player signature course in Mexico. You can play that, which is another 559 00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:40.039 gem out there in the Baja and in in twelve acres. We created a 560 00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:46.000 short game facility wellness golf course that is that it's great. I'll send you 561 00:45:46.039 --> 00:45:51.800 some pictures. And also in Many the Yucatan and the Yucatan Peninsula, in 562 00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:55.920 one of the most important and best resort spy resorts in the world, we 563 00:45:57.039 --> 00:46:02.000 have another wellness golf there and we created a golf lounge the pit, which 564 00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:07.239 you've probably seen. And we're working on special projects right now, very original 565 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:10.960 and unique, which I'll soon send you some pictures as well. Well. 566 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:17.679 I'm a huge fan of Mexico. I have had heated debates with people about 567 00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:23.960 Mexico versus Hawaii, and I feel like I win every time. So now 568 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:30.000 we know that there's actually great golf there too. Yes, that also competes 569 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:35.599 with Hawaii, especially if we're talking about these wellness golf resorts, that it's 570 00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:37.119 golf that you can take your family, because that was the whole point, 571 00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:42.199 you know, time restrictions, et cetera. I mean, these are designed 572 00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:45.639 to play in ninety minutes. So if you're there with your with your significant 573 00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:51.440 other and they're at the spa for ninety minutes or a couple of hours, 574 00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:53.119 nobody's going to miss you. When you're out there on the golf course for 575 00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:58.159 ninety minutes. That's the whole point. Part of the point is that these 576 00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:04.079 trips that you can take to these specific concepts, nobody's going to miss you 577 00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:07.760 for ninety minutes. Perfect, perfect, Augie is so great to talk to 578 00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:14.920 you again. It's pias A Golf Pack Golf and it's p i z a 579 00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:20.719 g o lf dot com to learn more about their design and everything that he's 580 00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:24.960 doing. The innovation is off the charts when it comes to golf course architecture. 581 00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:30.920 Thank you, sir, appreciate appreciate it, and any any Instagram followers 582 00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:36.719 at PISA Golf and we're there interacts, send us some questions and where we're 583 00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:40.400 on it. Thank you very much. Fred really appreciate it. Well. 584 00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:45.360 I have a great story about this week's Golf Smarter Ambassador, Royce Cossoff from 585 00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:51.719 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where he plays at McCall Golf Club. Royce is a 586 00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:55.840 longtime listener who even wrote a very kind review for Golf Smarter on Apple Podcasts 587 00:47:57.519 --> 00:48:02.440 back in twenty seventeen. But more in interestingly, Royce was so taken by 588 00:48:02.519 --> 00:48:08.519 hearing Jim Waldron on the podcast that he actually flew out west to Portland, 589 00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:14.760 Oregon to take two days of one on one lessons with Jim. And that's 590 00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:19.880 after doing Zoom lessons with Jim for three years. So then Royce wrote and 591 00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:24.920 said about his time face to face with Jim, quote absolutely life changing. 592 00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:31.000 Empty your mind and listen to everything he says and you will be saved. 593 00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:37.639 Wow. And that's why we have Jim on regularly. And now Royce is 594 00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:43.679 officially a Golf Smarter ambassador. Well why don't you become one of our ambassadors. 595 00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:47.039 Then you can take advantage of getting a free gift. If you aren't 596 00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:51.880 comfortable recording a show opening and that's been said to me, that's fine, 597 00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:55.000 But there's another way to get a choice of these three great gifts. Just 598 00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:59.880 leave the review for Golf Smarter, like Royce did, wherever you listen. 599 00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:02.400 Then send me the text of the review you wrote and where you wrote it. 600 00:49:02.960 --> 00:49:07.000 Or like Royce, you can record an episode opening on your phone or 601 00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:10.000 on our toll free listener line. I'm trying to make it so easy for 602 00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:15.599 you. Then you can choose one of those gifts, which includes Tony Manzoni's 603 00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:21.840 video of the Lost Fundamental Royce took advantage of the glove and glove storage compartment 604 00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:25.760 from redroostergolf dot com. And your third choice is an eight pack of Flightpathgolf 605 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:31.840 tees at flightpathgolf dot com. Just write me directly with your review or request 606 00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:36.239 to do a show opening, and I'll send you some simple instructions on how 607 00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:39.480 to record. Check out today's show notes to find links about each gift you 608 00:49:39.639 --> 00:49:44.519 have to choose from, and when you check out the show notes, you'll 609 00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:50.239 also see the summary and the bullet points provided by AI. If you have 610 00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:54.679 any questions comments, especially about how to get a free gift, or maybe 611 00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:59.719 you have a suggestion for an upcoming episode, write to Golf Smarter Podcast at 612 00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:05.360 mail dot com or click on the Heyfred button when you visit golfsmarter dot com