1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:07,320 If we go specifically to our type of architecture, we are creating a dialogue 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:12,000 from not only in the micro, from that particular golf hole that you're playing, 3 00:00:12,279 --> 00:00:16,039 but also in the macro what we like to call a carousel of emotions. 4 00:00:16,359 --> 00:00:20,079 It's an eighteen chapter book where it has a plot, the rising action. 5 00:00:20,679 --> 00:00:23,920 We like to design with all of that in mind. So when you're 6 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,320 playing one hole, it creates a dialogue with your strategy. But when when 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,520 you're playing the whole golf course, it's going to have these emotional up and 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,719 downs. It's not only the story of a golf hole Part three, Part 9 00:00:36,799 --> 00:00:42,759 four, Part five, heroic strategic penal, It's what the whole storyline of 10 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,560 playing one through eighteen is also going to tell you. WELLO, this is 11 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,679 Roys Kassoff from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I play golf McCall Golf Club. This 12 00:00:50,759 --> 00:00:56,240 is Golf Smarter, Episode nine thirty six. Course design should take the golfer 13 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:02,960 through a carousel of emotions with architect Doggy Pie Saw. This is Golf Smarter 14 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,680 sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to help you lower your 15 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:14,640 score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome 16 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:19,439 back to the Golf Smarter Podcast Oggy. Hello Fred, excited to be here, 17 00:01:19,439 --> 00:01:22,400 as always, great to see you. Great to have you back. 18 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,280 It's been almost exactly a year since the last time you were on, and 19 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,680 we learned so much from you. I just couldn't wait to do this again. 20 00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:36,599 Was looking at your website. What is the Pisa effect? Oh, 21 00:01:36,879 --> 00:01:41,680 well, the pizza piece I effect is something that we like to call of 22 00:01:42,519 --> 00:01:45,439 when we have a saying in our in our in our practice, which is 23 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,000 the passion begins when you live the experience. So when you when you sign 24 00:01:49,079 --> 00:01:53,959 up with us for us said to do to do, to work together in 25 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:59,560 collaboration with with with a giving development. We believe, we firmly and strongly 26 00:01:59,599 --> 00:02:06,840 believe that you that that our clients uh live an experience, a unique experience 27 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:13,479 throughout the process of of of of design. So it's not just the turning 28 00:02:13,479 --> 00:02:16,800 in the end product it is it is about the journey. It is about 29 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:24,840 the the the piside effect, which which uh you know, gives you that 30 00:02:25,039 --> 00:02:31,800 opportunity to to live to uh to live your passion. So the passion begins, 31 00:02:32,439 --> 00:02:38,719 uh when you live the experience with Okay, well, thank you for 32 00:02:38,719 --> 00:02:43,919 correcting me on how to pronounce it. That's yeah, it has a little 33 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:49,759 line on the A, so it's but I know, I mean I understand 34 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:55,080 that that that when it so it's pisa when it gets anglicizes, Hey, 35 00:02:55,199 --> 00:03:00,439 what's pizza. We're not. We're not. We're not as good as a 36 00:03:00,479 --> 00:03:05,639 pizza. There's only one z. Not too, but we're trying. We're 37 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:14,560 trying for that. So as a golf course architect, and and I love 38 00:03:14,599 --> 00:03:17,960 to try to get into the head of golf course architects. As an amateur 39 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:28,199 golfer, I don't think that we appreciate what an architect does and how we 40 00:03:28,439 --> 00:03:32,280 as amateur golfers can take advantage of it when we step up to the first 41 00:03:32,319 --> 00:03:37,199 t what we should be looking at, how we should be looking at it. 42 00:03:37,759 --> 00:03:40,680 And I would love to be able to use the language of an our 43 00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:46,319 course architect. Well, that's a that's that's a good one, Fred, 44 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,800 because at the end, I mean, it's not an intention to add to 45 00:03:49,879 --> 00:03:54,039 your swing thoughts. Now, definitely we have enough already, especially as it 46 00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:59,039 as you know, as us amateurs going out there, it's like we're already 47 00:03:59,039 --> 00:04:01,719 thinking of sixty read things to think about what just on our backs league? 48 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,039 So but but I would I would say this, it all depends where you're 49 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:12,479 playing for it because it depends on who was involved, who designed it, 50 00:04:13,039 --> 00:04:15,720 uh and to what intention. It all depends on on the why. And 51 00:04:15,759 --> 00:04:21,160 that is something again going back to the pside effect to to this process. 52 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,639 It is it starts with the why. So the first thing you need to 53 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:31,199 understand as an as a golfer out there on the first T is, am 54 00:04:31,199 --> 00:04:35,920 I playing a player's course. Am I playing a resort course? Am I 55 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,319 playing a parkland course, am I playing a public course, am I playing 56 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,879 got a private all of these? That's the first thing that we need to 57 00:04:43,959 --> 00:04:47,399 understand. Okay, So when you're out there saying, oh this was very 58 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,040 easy and very very very you know it doesn't have a lot of character. 59 00:04:51,399 --> 00:04:59,800 Well, maybe maybe it's a resort course that is designed for the super average 60 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:04,800 golf for to break one hundred. Yes, if it's a player's course, 61 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:11,360 then it's going to ask you for some shots. It's going to be designed 62 00:05:11,439 --> 00:05:16,120 completely different. A TEPC sawgrass, a you know, a private golf community 63 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:25,040 where where they're handicapped. Their average handicap could be twelve, a player's course, 64 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:30,399 country club or a resort where you know it's you expect people to be 65 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:34,639 a twenty six twenty eight to come in and play the course. So that's 66 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:40,600 the first thing that we need to find out is what are you play in 67 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:46,199 order to at least critique it or try and and decipher what you should be 68 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:50,199 out there looking at. So once your once you find that out, then 69 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:56,160 then you can look at different features, different aspects, angles of attack, 70 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,920 et cetera. And as we know, golf course up a A well designed 71 00:06:00,959 --> 00:06:05,000 golf course should be played or planned from backwards. Yes, where you want 72 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:10,120 your first shot to land in regards to the second, in relationship to the 73 00:06:10,199 --> 00:06:13,839 flag. Uh So it depends on to what level you want to take it. 74 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:19,160 But the first thing that I would recommend is to find out what are 75 00:06:19,199 --> 00:06:25,040 you playing and what was the intention of that design and before you go off 76 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:30,480 and critique and uh any any any designer. But when you say, you 77 00:06:30,519 --> 00:06:34,920 know, go start from the back and forward, you're talking about start your 78 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:39,439 view from from the green, from the green going back to the t. 79 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,000 Yes, if you if you're out there on the first t or you're out 80 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,120 there at the clubhouse trying to decipher the golf you know what the what the 81 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,439 the architect is trying to communicate with you. Look at the golf course from 82 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,279 the back to the front. You know, if you're if you were, 83 00:06:55,079 --> 00:06:59,839 if if if it's a short part for and you're and you're, you know, 84 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:09,160 your go to yardage is Okay, where should I put my driver or 85 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,800 my initial shot so that I can I can I can have that area around 86 00:07:13,879 --> 00:07:17,319 one forty five and I have my money shot at one forty five to hit 87 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,560 that green. So if I hit if it's like I said, if it's 88 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:27,439 a short part four of three fifty three seventy five, uh, and you 89 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,720 hit a nice driver, then you're going to be that then you're gonna say 90 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,079 you git a two hundred and fifty yard driver. You're at one hundred and 91 00:07:34,079 --> 00:07:40,920 fifty, So that's your that's your that's your perfect point for a four hundred 92 00:07:40,959 --> 00:07:44,800 yard But if it's a three hundred and fifty, three hundred and seventy yard 93 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,720 part four, then then maybe you should you should tee off with the three 94 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,399 wood if your money shot is at one forty three or if you're you know 95 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,079 those are I mean, there's a million combinations, but It all depends on 96 00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,560 your game, on the on the person's game. And once you're at that 97 00:08:00,759 --> 00:08:03,920 level of of golf where you know your game and you know what your money 98 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:09,680 shot is and you're you're confident and you're you're there and you know you're gonna 99 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,959 you're gonna flush it and that ball is gonna hit like a dart on the 100 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:16,240 green. That's that's why I mean that you should or you can plan at 101 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:22,040 that level. You can plan to to to to to play the golf course 102 00:08:22,279 --> 00:08:26,720 from the from the green to the tee so that you know exactly where you 103 00:08:26,759 --> 00:08:31,000 want your ball for your money shot. Part five, the same thing. 104 00:08:31,439 --> 00:08:35,399 Par five. Okay, my money shot is one twenty, So where what 105 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:41,559 does it take to put my ball in two shots at that one twenty Because 106 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,879 I know that I'm going to hit a dart there from that one twenty on 107 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:50,279 money and I can burdy this thing. So you know, if you're if 108 00:08:50,279 --> 00:08:54,879 you're just just hitting it to and just you know, thinking, just thinking, 109 00:08:54,879 --> 00:08:58,600 hey, just landing on the fairway, fair enough, But in order 110 00:08:58,639 --> 00:09:03,759 to take your golf to the next level in reading the golf course, that's 111 00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:07,279 what you should do. That's what I recommend because you're going to have creaks, 112 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,000 you're going to have bunkering. If you have a proper design, you 113 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,600 should always read it from the back to the front. And it's that second 114 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:22,720 shot that we're setting up that where the challenge really begins or does it really 115 00:09:22,879 --> 00:09:28,080 begin at the T box? No, it should begin. I mean if 116 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:33,919 we if we go specifically to our type of architecture, we're we are creating 117 00:09:33,919 --> 00:09:39,600 a dialogue from not not only not only in the micro, from that particular 118 00:09:39,639 --> 00:09:43,320 golf hole that you're playing, but also in the macro with what we'd like 119 00:09:43,399 --> 00:09:46,080 to call our treasure maps. We're going to be you're going to be on 120 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:54,000 whole number one. Then then then we create what in uh, you know, 121 00:09:54,039 --> 00:09:56,240 a band, a musical band would say, this is our set list 122 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,759 for the for our concert tonight. How's that going to change? Well, 123 00:10:01,279 --> 00:10:05,080 it depends on if we're if we're you know, what are we going to 124 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,200 play tonight? So it's the same. They're gonna take you in a in 125 00:10:07,399 --> 00:10:11,279 what we like to call a carousel of emotions. So they're gonna take you. 126 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,679 They're gonna start either with a bang, or they're gonna start softly, 127 00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:20,399 or they're gonna whatever they they are going to manipulate, per se the audience. 128 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:26,200 It's it's something similar that we like to do with our golf courses. 129 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,919 From one to eighteen. It's an eighteen chapter book per se or a nice 130 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,679 you know, or or or a nice play or a nice uh you know, 131 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:41,799 theater, or or where it has a plot, the rising action, 132 00:10:41,039 --> 00:10:46,159 the so you we we like to design with all of that in mind. 133 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,480 So when you're play in one hole, it creates a dialogue with your strategy. 134 00:10:50,799 --> 00:10:54,440 But when when you're playing the whole golf course, it's gonna have these 135 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,120 up and downs, emotional up up and downs. At some point we're going 136 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,759 to take a shot off of you. We're going to really challenge you. 137 00:11:03,039 --> 00:11:05,919 But maybe the third hole it's going to be like, oh hey, it's 138 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,879 wide open, it's there for the taking, there's no bunkers. If I 139 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:16,360 don't score here, then you know, it's it's it's you know, we 140 00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:22,519 can't do much about that one. So but that's how we like to decide. 141 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:28,320 It's not only the story within the frame of a golf hole. Part 142 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:35,360 three, Part four, Part five, Heroic Strategic Penal. It's it's it's 143 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,159 what the whole storyline of playing one through eighteen is also going to tell you, 144 00:11:41,399 --> 00:11:43,279 Oh my gosh, I have so many more questions just based on that 145 00:11:43,399 --> 00:11:46,679 answer, and we're going to deal with that, but I need to take 146 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:56,480 a break. We'll be back right after this. Now I'm really concerned. 147 00:11:56,799 --> 00:12:01,440 I'm where am I going to go with because I had so many questions that 148 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:07,240 I wanted to ask you about. But let's let's keep talking about when you're 149 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:16,559 designing for amateur play. Okay, but do holes get more complicated in design? 150 00:12:18,279 --> 00:12:22,159 You know, like where where do you want to put your number one 151 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:28,559 handicap or your number eighteen handicap which is supposed to tell the golfer when they're 152 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,519 looking at their scorecard, Oh, this is going to be the most difficult 153 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:37,120 hole on the course. Is your number one and or if you're on the 154 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:41,840 other side, it's number two, could be even. I don't know how 155 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,279 do they decide which one's one through the odd numbers on which ones are the 156 00:12:46,279 --> 00:12:50,279 even numbers? But in your design, how do you determine Is it the 157 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:56,600 geography that dictates what is going to be your number one and your number eighteen 158 00:12:56,639 --> 00:13:03,000 handicap holes? Yes, well, there's a lot of factors. But the 159 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,360 brief is the number one. What are we going to what do we want 160 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,399 to achieve? Again, is it a players course, is it a resort 161 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,399 course, is it a members course? What's the average handicap? All of 162 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:20,799 that? Okay, So it just all depends. And so when you say 163 00:13:20,879 --> 00:13:26,200 a player's course, that means, of course you're designing that's going to be 164 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,879 on the tour. It could be on the tour, I mean not necessarily 165 00:13:30,919 --> 00:13:33,600 because that all depends on the on the client and there you know, what 166 00:13:33,759 --> 00:13:39,440 they want to create for their for their for their project. But it means 167 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,320 that it's going to challenge a player. It means that we are designing for 168 00:13:45,039 --> 00:13:50,120 the not necessarily for the for the top players in the world. And now 169 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,759 that could be in the proof like what happened at TPC Sargress. You know, 170 00:13:52,799 --> 00:13:56,799 hey, we want to we want we want to challenge the top players 171 00:13:56,799 --> 00:14:01,600 in the world. Then that's what Pete I did very fantastically well on that 172 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,840 course. Uh And but that was a brief, that's what he was. 173 00:14:05,919 --> 00:14:11,159 He was there to try and make the player's life miserable in that in that 174 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:16,559 particular time. So and it's worked to perfection it's one of the most intriguing 175 00:14:16,879 --> 00:14:22,600 uh non majors sad to say out there. So, but it's a terrific 176 00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:28,480 it's a terrific course. So it all depends on on what are the needs 177 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,960 of the of the place. Because if you're looking at now, let's say 178 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:37,000 that we do create a world class tournament, Now it's a different ballgame because 179 00:14:37,039 --> 00:14:43,360 now we have to create areas for television, for for for the uh for 180 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:52,440 all the everything that goes to bringing a huge production of hospitalities uh et cetera, 181 00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:56,919 merchantes et cetera, et cetera, merchandising, et cetera. Yes, 182 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:01,399 so that that's a whole different ballgame. Now. Course at that at the 183 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,679 regular level that we're talking about, is is a challenging course. Uh, 184 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:11,480 it's a it's a character course. It's it's a long course and uh. 185 00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:16,960 But but obviously you know and for made for for players, so you're not 186 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,320 going to be able to spray it. If you don't, if you don't 187 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:28,480 hit one hundred and twenty feet wide uh land the areas, then then then 188 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,639 you're it's not a it's not a golf course made for that for that golf 189 00:15:33,919 --> 00:15:37,559 When you said intriguing. Did you mean from Uh, let me ask it 190 00:15:37,559 --> 00:15:43,879 this way. Whose perspective are you talking about when you say intriguing, Well, 191 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,360 well, you we like to we like to design for the end user 192 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:54,799 in mind. And that is having the brief, the projections, the the 193 00:15:54,840 --> 00:16:00,480 business plan, everything set, the market, et cetera, et cetera, 194 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,639 everything set, so that we can come and interpret that and create the best 195 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:11,759 golf development for that brief. So that is the that is the the the 196 00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:15,200 the important aspect of of of anything you create. I mean, I'm not 197 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,600 inventing anything. This is if you want to build your house, you need 198 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,120 you need you need to uh to be in in good terms with the with 199 00:16:23,159 --> 00:16:26,159 the wife, because we we're gonna be there. You know, what do 200 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,360 you want? What do you need? What are your needs? Uh? 201 00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:33,080 What would you like? How would you like the house to flow? Oh? 202 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,480 I like this, Well I want my man cave right here in the 203 00:16:36,519 --> 00:16:38,720 in the in the center. Well put it over there in the garage. 204 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:45,600 I mean, just with that. If you if you're not in symphony with 205 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:52,440 and if there's no uh you know, centered synchronicity synergy with that in that 206 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,720 aspect, then we're just there kind of like going, okay, so what 207 00:16:56,879 --> 00:16:59,879 do we want? This is going to take a while before we have a 208 00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:03,440 plan when anybody. Yeah, but obviously we come in and and suggest and 209 00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:07,799 gives our you know, sometimes we have those projects where it's, hey, 210 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,799 what do you guys recommend? What do you see here? Well, we 211 00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:17,680 see this, we see that, but let's let's address this side to make 212 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:22,799 sure that we're in the right direction and we we will create that uh that 213 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,359 creative you know, the why for the client as well. Okay, what 214 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,880 do you think the percentage of your clients. I I'm not going to talk 215 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,680 about the industry, but if your clients come and say, I want a 216 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:41,480 player's course and I want this to eventually I would love for this to be 217 00:17:41,519 --> 00:17:48,480 on the tour, that for us on the tour you not always you sometimes 218 00:17:48,559 --> 00:17:55,319 let's say, let's say that two out of ten golf courses that you're kind 219 00:17:55,319 --> 00:18:00,920 of like, you know, visualizing and creating the visual aspect and and the 220 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:06,640 why it is it is like, hey, we are open for for some 221 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:11,279 sort of tour either either I mean this could be all the way from the 222 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:18,160 WGC, uh all the way down or what was the WGC. Either World 223 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,440 Golf Championship just as an example, or even the lack the you know, 224 00:18:22,519 --> 00:18:26,759 the Latin American Amateur Championship or stuff like that, and for for our Latin 225 00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:30,519 American for our Project Star in Latin America. They sometimes they do think of, 226 00:18:30,759 --> 00:18:33,880 hey, I would love to host that lack. Well, I mean 227 00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:38,759 these guys they're amateurs, but they they I mean that the distance now from 228 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:45,400 from that level to the tour level, it's college level. It's it's it's 229 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,640 been uh, it's getting closer. It's getting closer. That's what That's what's 230 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,759 been happening in the past, in the past probably seven to ten years, 231 00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:57,000 that that gap is not as you see more amateurs making the cuts. You 232 00:18:57,079 --> 00:19:03,599 see more amateurs I mean mature. But we just won this year, and 233 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:10,200 so that gap is getting closer. It's not like it's the amateur and let 234 00:19:10,279 --> 00:19:15,119 him participate. No, he's there to he's there to compete. And that's 235 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,359 that's the beauty of what's happening. One of the beauties that that that's what's 236 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,960 happening in golfering, or at least in competitive golf. Well, as we 237 00:19:22,039 --> 00:19:26,559 learned last week our guests John Marshall is I think was John Marshall who was 238 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:33,200 talking about how the gap between a scratch golfer and an eighteen handicap is closer 239 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,680 than scratch golf to a tour player. Well, that's yeah, that's a 240 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,160 different perspective. That's another Would you agree with that? I mean, especially 241 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,240 from your personetive facts. But if I had to to to bet on that, 242 00:19:45,319 --> 00:19:48,880 I would put out I would say yes. Okay, I would say 243 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,400 yes because I I can go out right now and play with the scratch golfer, 244 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,160 a regular street scratch golf like a buddy of mine. That's that's zero 245 00:19:57,279 --> 00:20:00,519 or whatever, right, because I you know, at the at the end, 246 00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:04,079 it's it's there. It's their indexes zero zero, zero, zero, 247 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,119 whatever it is. But but you know that you can go out there and 248 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,880 they're going to still make a lot of mistakes. You're gonna have fun, 249 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,200 et cetera, et cetera. And the problem is with the scratch golfers that 250 00:20:14,279 --> 00:20:17,359 think that they can be in the tour. And that's the problem when you 251 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,240 have that attitude mixed. I'm like, man, come on, man, 252 00:20:19,599 --> 00:20:23,799 just to just to try and qualify, you need to be a plus six 253 00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:30,960 like on on a regular like a consistent basis, you need to be a 254 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,680 plus six, So don't give me that that your club. Definitely, definitely 255 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:40,240 the scratch golfer to the level of the tour player. I believe that it's 256 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:47,000 longer than the than the than the than the the other one that you mentioned 257 00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:49,759 on a regular eighteen handicap. Well, I mean, like, uh, 258 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,119 I have a single digit index, but I also play a slope of you 259 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:02,200 know, one twenty five two in there, and you put me on a 260 00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:04,279 course that's got a slope of a one thirty three, one thirty five, 261 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,759 I'm shooting in the nineties. And that's why I play the white tees. 262 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,599 Yes, I don't. I don't see a reason to make golf any harder 263 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,240 than it already is. So we know, so well, sure I'll play 264 00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:22,799 the white teas well. You know it's golf. Golf is one of the 265 00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:27,680 one of the oldest ways to to commit masochism in the world. So I'll 266 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:33,799 watch it. So hey, we you know it's it's just it's it's a 267 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,240 full on suffering out there. We love to suffer. We love we love 268 00:21:38,279 --> 00:21:41,480 it out there. And uh, I still have to I still have to 269 00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:48,480 meet fred a golfer that is happy with their golf game at any level, 270 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:52,640 at any love. I've known one. I had a barber. I had 271 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,000 a barber who said, oh yeah, I'm a good golfer. I've never 272 00:21:56,079 --> 00:22:00,079 met another businesses Yep, I'm a good golfer. Rest is soul? All 273 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:08,960 right, another time out, we'll be right back. Last time that we 274 00:22:10,039 --> 00:22:14,400 talked, you introduced a concept that I was absolutely blown out by in the 275 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:19,880 butterfly design. Can you give us an update on that? Explain it first 276 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,079 for those who didn't get to chance to hear it last time, and also 277 00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:27,000 any updates. Yes, I love it, well, thanks for asking, 278 00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:33,480 freend Yes, we are. We've been described as concept creators, so it's 279 00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:38,920 not the only concept that we have designed. I've been creating concepts, you 280 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:45,960 know, since twenty seventeen that I think that we've we've really created a lot 281 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:51,839 of concepts that are now known. But I've the butterfly golf is a four 282 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,599 loop of nine. So just imagine a butterfly, you know, body, 283 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:02,759 where the center is the body of the butterfly, where the center of gravity. 284 00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:06,759 The four loops come back to that center of gravity. So when you're 285 00:23:06,799 --> 00:23:11,279 playing an eighteen whole golf course, you only need three of the wings, 286 00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:15,240 you know, because there's three loops of six and there's always one that's free. 287 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:21,599 So with that said, if you can create all sorts of combinations that 288 00:23:21,799 --> 00:23:27,200 are really permutations, because you don't care where whole number one is, so 289 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,720 it's if it's one through six on each one to add eighteen, you can 290 00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:37,480 play you know, a root A Let's say that the roots are A, 291 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,759 B and C and D. So you can play A B and C, 292 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,640 and then a C and B, and then a B and D and then 293 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:51,720 a C and D, A D and c H there for each for each 294 00:23:51,880 --> 00:24:02,079 letter there's six different combinations. So you're playing twenty four combination. So to 295 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,400 cut a long story short, it is in twenty four days that you could 296 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,200 be there on this resort or whatever. In twenty four days, you will 297 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,640 not repeat the same routing, and you will be able to play an eighteen 298 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,440 hole, par seventy, par seventy one, or par seventy two, depending 299 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,480 on the combination that you've played. And six holes will always be open to 300 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:33,960 social gatherings or or you know, conventions, et cetera. And also this 301 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:41,400 is a kind of like a school yard for all sorts of levels because joining 302 00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:48,920 the inside of this of this concept design, it's also we take you know, 303 00:24:49,079 --> 00:24:55,160 for SI, there will be six holes that are catered to beginners, 304 00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:56,799 you know, like like ten year olds, eight year old, six year 305 00:24:56,799 --> 00:25:02,880 olds that have their extra tee and that and that have that strategy just for 306 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,519 them. But obviously you can use it on a like on a regular golf 307 00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:11,880 course. But these are things that we are thinking of creating. In one 308 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:17,160 of our projects. Another six would be catered to the uh, you know, 309 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:22,119 the best female golfers. Yes, that speaking of second shots, that's 310 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,119 where the situation, that's where the problem is. It's not just cutting the 311 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:33,880 t box to to to whatever yardage is. It's it's what's their angle of 312 00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:40,519 of trajectory and attack on the green when they're one hundred and eighty yards away 313 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,920 or two twenty on a short part five. Uh, that's the difference in 314 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,720 that angle from the from the gentleman players to the female players. There it's 315 00:25:49,759 --> 00:25:53,799 a it's it's there's a lot of change in the trajectory of the ball. 316 00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:59,200 So the golf course needs to be designed in a different way to catch or 317 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,039 to attract or to lure these players into going for it, and and and 318 00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:07,960 and getting it on the green. Uh. So all of these things is 319 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,799 what we factor in to betterfly golf. I don't want to I don't know 320 00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:15,279 how deep you want to go into this, but I think that this is 321 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,440 I have an explanatory video. Now you're gonna send it to you and maybe 322 00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:22,920 maybe maybe it can be part of the addition. Oh yeah, no, 323 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,039 I'll definitely link to it. We'll definitely link to it on the on the 324 00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:30,119 show notes, no question. So does I just love the idea because I've 325 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,359 always loved the idea of round, you know, six hole increments versus nine 326 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,319 hole increments, and so it makes so much sense. And then by adding 327 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:44,880 that fourth loop, I would think that the maintenance people would absolutely love this 328 00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:49,000 concept because that is another thing. It's for maintenance. Uh, it's it's 329 00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:53,319 for experimenting, if you want it's maintenance. It's uh, it's that if 330 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,160 you're conscious of time, you can play. If you're there for a week, 331 00:26:56,599 --> 00:27:00,839 you you can play six sols, you know, for days, and 332 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:06,759 you'll you'll play a different hole obviously you can depending on operations because this all 333 00:27:06,759 --> 00:27:11,039 depends on on on how busy the day is or the or the or the 334 00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:14,240 season is, but you would be able to operate, you know, having 335 00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:17,880 a nine hole loop, a twelve hole loop, a six hole loop, 336 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,039 and so all of that can be mixed. It's a multi multi use area 337 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,960 that that would depend on the on on what what what you and your customers 338 00:27:29,079 --> 00:27:33,799 want to want to live as an experience in in the in the butterfly golf 339 00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:37,519 and when it work with this concept, you hope work for any type of 340 00:27:37,519 --> 00:27:44,559 course, resort players, membership, yes, and you can even you can 341 00:27:44,599 --> 00:27:47,440 even mix it nuch and if you want to get let's say that if you 342 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,200 want to practice if it depends on who you you cater for. But maybe 343 00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:56,240 let's say that this butter that let's say that a butterfly concept is in is 344 00:27:56,319 --> 00:28:00,480 in Palm Beach, or in Florida or where you know that Arizona where you 345 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,960 know that a lot of professional players live. I mean we we can create 346 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,599 this as I mean, one wing can be a resort, the other wing 347 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,799 can be you know tour player, female tour players. The other wing can 348 00:28:12,839 --> 00:28:21,000 be as the male tour players and really challenge each each sixes and then there's 349 00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:26,039 a complete eighteen hole golf course where you'll have the different experiences of how a 350 00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:30,160 golf course is played. So yes, we can mix and match and and 351 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:37,000 and cater for the necessities of of of that particular project or your end your 352 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:45,599 end consumer. And you know you mentioned Florida and Arizona, which mostly we're 353 00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:51,000 talking about level land flat land, especially Florida, right, but here I 354 00:28:51,039 --> 00:28:55,559 live in northern California. There's a lot of ventulation everywhere. You're familiar with 355 00:28:55,599 --> 00:29:00,680 it. You live in California San Diego as well. It's not just flat. 356 00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:07,680 Would this concept be adaptable in areas that aren't just a level course? 357 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,440 Yes, of course. It all depends on the land whenever you have and 358 00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:17,160 that happens on every on every level, even designing a regular eighteen old golf 359 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,359 course. When you when you see the land, when the land is there, 360 00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:25,160 and let's say that you have let's say that that there's like, oh, 361 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,440 we have a five hundred acre piece of land. Oh, it sounds 362 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:33,119 beautiful, But how's the topography. If the topography is like this, then 363 00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:37,799 you don't have a five hundred piece of land, because you know, half 364 00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:42,359 of it is counts as the as the as the sheer drops and ups, 365 00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:45,680 and so the only thing you can use are the top parts or the middle 366 00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:48,799 or the valley parts, but that at the end of the day, we 367 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,799 have one hundred and eighty acres to play with, you know. So it 368 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:59,279 depends if if you have if you have whatever, five hundred acres in Florida, 369 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,160 usually you can use them all unless you're on wetland and stuff like that. 370 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,160 Then you have like sixty percent wetland, Well you're not going to use 371 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,200 that as well, you know. So it depends on environmental It depends on 372 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:18,960 your on your topography, a relationship. Those are the two things that are 373 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:25,920 going to dictate at the end how much land you really have to play with. 374 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,480 So yeah, it depends like here in California, let's say that over 375 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,759 there up where we live in this I mean, you know that there's a 376 00:30:32,839 --> 00:30:40,240 lot of us ups and downs and everything. So if the it would probably 377 00:30:40,279 --> 00:30:45,599 be a bigger on paper, we would probably have a bigger land. But 378 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,799 it's not necessarily a bigger one. It's just it's just that the topo map 379 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:55,359 reads five hundred acres, but you can only use two hundred, Yeah, 380 00:30:56,359 --> 00:31:00,200 because the other ones are impossible to go in or there, or they're part 381 00:31:00,319 --> 00:31:06,480 of of a park of a national forest or so all of that starts increasing 382 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,519 decreasing your piece of land, especially if if if you're if you want to 383 00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:18,920 do things right and uh and and not you know, not disturbs the important 384 00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:25,359 important areas in nature, right I have in mind, of course that I'm 385 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:30,880 sure many people have not played h Tpcdune Sante Bay in Mexico in the retto, 386 00:31:32,519 --> 00:31:34,279 which kind of snakes through the mountains. I mean there's a couple of 387 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:41,079 level holes there side by side, but mostly it's snaking through mountain areas. 388 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,480 So, yes, that was it. That was a beautiful layout by Rhys 389 00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:49,039 Jones. Yeah, beautiful layout. And then you come up over the top 390 00:31:49,079 --> 00:31:52,440 on number seventeen and you're out there at the Sea of Cortez and it's like 391 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,240 wow, yeah, this is breath tanking. Yeah. And anyone else ever 392 00:31:57,279 --> 00:32:00,839 had a chance go to this cold of course? Yes, yes, please, 393 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:06,799 yeah. And it's playable. I mean it's halfway halfway from San Diego 394 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,759 to Cabo right, so but on the eastern inside, on the inside of 395 00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:15,440 the Sea of Court. Beautiful place. I love that place. That's why 396 00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:21,960 we became member owners in that time share. Nice good, Yeah, No, 397 00:32:22,039 --> 00:32:27,960 I love that place. So tell me as far as the butterfly design, 398 00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:37,200 what's the reaction been and are there any in design and operation? Where 399 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,119 are we with it? Not yet in operation, but yes, it's it's 400 00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:45,240 uh and thank you for asking. I'm not going to be able to disclose 401 00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:51,319 on this show anyway yet. But we do have our first one, this 402 00:32:51,319 --> 00:32:58,079 one, I wouldn't worry about that. I love it. So so we 403 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:06,240 do have three on the on on paper and that should and will begin construction 404 00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:12,920 this year twenty twenty four and uh in twenty twenty five, and uh so 405 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,759 we're very proud of that because you know, and it's it's it's kind of 406 00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:19,960 funny, but this is how things work, and this is how creativity is 407 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,880 up there in the air. Great ideas are up there in the air. 408 00:33:22,079 --> 00:33:28,559 If you're in the right frequency with the right sensitivity, you it's just you 409 00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:30,920 can bring down the ideas. I mean, so it's it's it was hard 410 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,160 to believe when we first came up with this concept of the four loops of 411 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,319 six. And you know that loops of six is not a is not a 412 00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:43,440 secret. Three loops of six is not a secret. But it's not done. 413 00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:47,200 Years in five hundred years of golf's existence, nobody thought of four loops 414 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:53,319 of six and the and the combinations that you have right right. So it's 415 00:33:53,319 --> 00:33:57,440 been it's been great. It's been a great. When we pitched this to 416 00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:01,039 our to our clients, it's they love it. If they have land, 417 00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:05,079 they go for it. And I've told them, if you have the land, 418 00:34:05,519 --> 00:34:07,440 I would never design another eight hole golf course again. I mean, 419 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:12,039 let's go for the twenty four because more is less. I mean, you 420 00:34:12,119 --> 00:34:16,760 do six holes more, but you're not going to invest ever in a twenty 421 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:23,400 seven or a thirty six golf complex because you don't need to. Yes, 422 00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:30,360 right, you have twenty four golf courses right here now, unless you're going 423 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,599 to build twenty thousand houses. That's a different we're going to have a different 424 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:42,039 volume. But for a regular volume, for a regular master planned community, 425 00:34:42,119 --> 00:34:45,599 resort, master planned community or something like that, you're going to have fifty 426 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:52,960 seventy one hundred rounds a day. It's more than plenty, more than plenty. 427 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,880 And it's a great solution. You can come out of the twenty seven 428 00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:00,800 whole layout, thirty six who layout. You know, it's better for the 429 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:06,199 environment, better for water, better for space, it gives you, it 430 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,079 gives you, you know, still a very good housing development. But but 431 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,280 you you you know, for for for water usage, for all of that. 432 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,639 It is. It is a great example of sustainability as well. All 433 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:30,719 right, one more break. We'll be back in sixty seconds. For a 434 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:35,679 normal Uh, let's just say there's a housing development being made and they're going 435 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,519 to have five hundred homes. I don't know what a housing development is. 436 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,079 They want to put a golf course in there. How much land do you 437 00:35:44,199 --> 00:35:49,119 need for the golf course, the practice area, the driving range, what? 438 00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:53,480 What is what's required? Generally? I know can't be because it can 439 00:35:53,559 --> 00:35:58,119 range. Yeah, they do whatever, And it depends on the on the 440 00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:00,199 on the type of on the use of land that you have. If you 441 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:05,079 go go vertical, you know, for a golf course, we're gonna need 442 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,880 we're gonna need one hundred and eighty two hundred let's just round up the numbers. 443 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:15,079 Two hundred acres, okay, So and that's the land. That doesn't 444 00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:17,559 mean that the golf course is going to to be there. Maybe for the 445 00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:22,840 golf course, just for the grass, you're gonna you're gonna grasp one hundred 446 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,320 acres. I don't know. I'm just just to round up numbers. So 447 00:36:27,159 --> 00:36:31,199 if you use two hundred half of it, per se will be grassed. 448 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,679 Okay, now this is don't take this literally. This is just an exercise 449 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,880 for for for for whoever's listening, maybe maybe my grandma is something else, 450 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:46,239 Just kidding, So just just to round up some numbers. So that's just 451 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:52,400 the lot that we need for safety precautions. So those that's the quarridor that 452 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:59,440 you need to you know, to uh to save the housing development from from 453 00:36:59,519 --> 00:37:04,400 having that many golf hold balls hit or et cetera. You're always going to 454 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:09,760 have that that that uh, you know, percentage of balls that are that 455 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:15,159 that go outside the corridors. We we all know that we all have been 456 00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:21,960 there, so windy day, more windy, et cetera, that's gonna happen. 457 00:37:22,199 --> 00:37:25,400 So with that in mind, that's what you need for a regular eighteen 458 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,039 old championship. That includes the driving rains and and short game facility, and 459 00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:36,239 and and cutting green clubhouse and marking love not in as No, that's different. 460 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,280 That's just just a golf corridor of everything that has to do with golf. 461 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,800 Okay, yes, but you still need the back of the house. 462 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:49,119 You still need your maintenance facility, you still need your your clubhouse. I 463 00:37:49,159 --> 00:37:53,320 don't know if your clubhouse is going to be twenty thousand square feet or two 464 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:59,480 or or two hundred square feet or or or two hundred thousand square feet. 465 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,920 Why because I don't know if you're going to need a convention center. I 466 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:06,800 don't know if you're going to do weddings or not. So all of that 467 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,679 factors in right. That's why you can't really say, ah, it includes 468 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:15,400 this, because what's again, what's the brief? What what what are we 469 00:38:15,519 --> 00:38:22,480 doing this for? We're doing this for for to host a PGA show every 470 00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:29,400 year in Orlando. Well, then then your clubhouse, convention center is is 471 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,800 going to be We're going to need more land. So all we're going to 472 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:37,880 we're going to cater for a PGA tour, Well, then we're going to 473 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,800 need more land because we need hospitality, we need all the trailers. I 474 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,079 mean there's I don't know how many trailers there are out there, you know, 475 00:38:45,199 --> 00:38:52,159 but every time I'm touring a you know, a or I'm in some 476 00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:57,960 sort of a tour event, there's fifty trailers out there. I mean, 477 00:38:58,559 --> 00:39:04,840 you know, from television to equipment to bah blah, so that parking lot 478 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,320 and then the regular parking so that changes again. So when you ask, 479 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:15,800 I mean, what is what is? What is that? What are we 480 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,280 catering for at the end of the day, But for the golf course, 481 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,519 that's what you need and then the rest. Then what are we doing? 482 00:39:24,199 --> 00:39:30,559 Multi housing development? One family home development vertical? We can go to thirty 483 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:37,639 thirty stories thirty story building because we're right close to the city. I don't 484 00:39:37,639 --> 00:39:40,519 know, so that that all depends. The important thing is to come up 485 00:39:40,519 --> 00:39:49,679 with that good factor of housing per golf per rounds so that we know that 486 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:57,079 we're doing the right thing in regards to the business plan and we have a 487 00:39:57,159 --> 00:40:01,800 successful project for our clients. So I'm not going to ask you to be 488 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:07,119 specific about anything, and if I if you can't even answer these questions, 489 00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:13,119 don't. But I'm just curious about the people that have shown interest and will 490 00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:16,119 be developing a butterfly type type golf course. Is it the United States? 491 00:40:17,559 --> 00:40:21,800 Yes, one in Europe, one in the United States, and one in 492 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:28,400 Mexico. Wow, can you give a state in the United States? Can't 493 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,199 even go that? Okay, then I'm done with that yet. Not yet. 494 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,719 That's what I do. So you can you can invite me back in 495 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,840 it. Oh I can't wait. No, no, no, no, 496 00:40:37,159 --> 00:40:42,000 I love I love having you on because you really help you put things in 497 00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:50,239 perspective overall. Have you had uh pitches to to potential clients and you gave 498 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:58,280 them this idea and they're like, no, yeah, well luckily we don't 499 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,000 get the silly thing. Uh. We raise eyebrows and that's good, that's 500 00:41:02,039 --> 00:41:07,360 good. But they're thinking, but it's not. But it's not in the 501 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,159 in the format, you know, it's not in the format. It's like 502 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:14,039 no, you know, we we we we're a little bit more conservative. 503 00:41:14,079 --> 00:41:17,119 We want the eight old golf course fair enough, perfect or maybe sometimes we're 504 00:41:17,159 --> 00:41:21,960 doing a short game facility. You know, we're working with a top tequila 505 00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:28,320 brand right now that that we're going to do their their short game cool sexy. 506 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,440 Uh you know, part three course short, part three course in their 507 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:36,000 hacienda for tequila, one of the top producers in tequila in the world. 508 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:37,840 That you're going to love that one. But I can't disclose it the Navy 509 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,320 yet. But those things that we love to do, those things that we 510 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:47,599 love to do that that also comes in the equation. So just to try 511 00:41:47,639 --> 00:41:52,360 and answer your question on a to maybe in another in another perspective, with 512 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:58,440 another view. We're very lucky right now, Fred that that clients that call 513 00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:02,639 us, they call us because they want something unique. They call us because 514 00:42:02,679 --> 00:42:07,920 they're looking for something cool, something sexy, something original, something that's that's 515 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:15,320 a little bit you know, out there, but still respecting the integrity of 516 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,960 the game. So that's where we're at. That's our sweet spot right there. 517 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,079 We do we can do traditional, yes, we love it. Yes, 518 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:30,039 but clients right now are calling us because of our of our unique approach. 519 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,400 So that's pretty cool too. That's very cool. Congratulations. If we 520 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,079 could be the friend, if we could be the with all due respect to 521 00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:38,079 Frank Getty, if we could be the Frank Getty of golf, I'm in 522 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:45,440 yeah, I would think so, I would think. So tell me about 523 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,119 Wellness Golf. I also saw on your website you had Wellness Golf. Yes, 524 00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:52,800 that is one of our concepts. That is our less is More collection 525 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:58,559 and that is you know, something that we created seven years ago now, 526 00:42:58,599 --> 00:43:04,000 twenty seventeen, where we started. I created a list of uh in in 527 00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:06,719 our in our design studio, We're like, okay, what is golf. 528 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,920 Everybody's talking about growing the game, nobody's doing anything about it. What is 529 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:15,239 golf? That's that's and this was this was in twenty seventeen. Though so 530 00:43:15,519 --> 00:43:21,400 uh so, well, golf is intimidating, it's time consuming, it's judgmental, 531 00:43:22,039 --> 00:43:27,840 it's uh, it's it's it's land consuming, resource consuming. List. 532 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:32,400 Okay, what can we do to counter that list? So let's create a 533 00:43:32,519 --> 00:43:37,480 concept that's going to call wellness golf. We're going to take invite people to 534 00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:40,800 take their shoes off, to connect with nature, to forget about the slope, 535 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,440 to forget about the rating, to just play primitive golf. And that's 536 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,559 that's that's what we talked about. Primitive golf. You find the ball, 537 00:43:51,639 --> 00:43:54,519 you find the club, Let's go play horse, let's have fun, let's 538 00:43:54,519 --> 00:44:00,000 connect with nature. There's nothing, there's no scorecard, there's nothing out there. 539 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,320 It's a it's a it's a short game area, short game facility where 540 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,039 depending on the on the project, we created one hundred and eighty yard shots 541 00:44:08,159 --> 00:44:13,960 or sixty yard shot shots. But but the important thing is for you or 542 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,800 for us to to to to to you know, to connect with nature, 543 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,360 to forget about golf as we know it, uh at that time and uh 544 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:29,199 and and it's great. I mean that that is that is what we call 545 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:34,239 wellness golf. Is those types of of projects that have been luckily picking up 546 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,119 and that and that you can see now all over the place. Not not 547 00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:42,000 that we not not because of us, but funny enough, you know, 548 00:44:42,039 --> 00:44:46,800 the Cradle was was was born at the same time as the as chub Let 549 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:52,800 wellness uh wellness wellness golf and many that we were doing. And we and 550 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,079 I didn't know that that that that the Cradle was going on. So so 551 00:44:55,119 --> 00:45:00,639 it's pretty cool that that you know, it's it's the again at that uh, 552 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:06,440 that creative those creative waves were out there in the universe just and and 553 00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:10,679 we were thinking, you know, doing some something different out there. So 554 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,599 are there places that I can ask Now, it's like, can we go 555 00:45:14,639 --> 00:45:17,239 out and see that? Yes, of course you can go out and see 556 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:22,480 it. On on in La Pause down in the Baja, we created a 557 00:45:22,039 --> 00:45:30,280 special place inside an area where there's an existing Gary Player course, the only 558 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,119 Gary Player signature course in Mexico. You can play that, which is another 559 00:45:34,199 --> 00:45:40,039 gem out there in the Baja and in in twelve acres. We created a 560 00:45:40,159 --> 00:45:46,000 short game facility wellness golf course that is that it's great. I'll send you 561 00:45:46,039 --> 00:45:51,800 some pictures. And also in Many the Yucatan and the Yucatan Peninsula, in 562 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,920 one of the most important and best resort spy resorts in the world, we 563 00:45:57,039 --> 00:46:02,000 have another wellness golf there and we created a golf lounge the pit, which 564 00:46:02,039 --> 00:46:07,239 you've probably seen. And we're working on special projects right now, very original 565 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,960 and unique, which I'll soon send you some pictures as well. Well. 566 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:17,679 I'm a huge fan of Mexico. I have had heated debates with people about 567 00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:23,960 Mexico versus Hawaii, and I feel like I win every time. So now 568 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:30,000 we know that there's actually great golf there too. Yes, that also competes 569 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:35,599 with Hawaii, especially if we're talking about these wellness golf resorts, that it's 570 00:46:35,639 --> 00:46:37,119 golf that you can take your family, because that was the whole point, 571 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:42,199 you know, time restrictions, et cetera. I mean, these are designed 572 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,639 to play in ninety minutes. So if you're there with your with your significant 573 00:46:45,639 --> 00:46:51,440 other and they're at the spa for ninety minutes or a couple of hours, 574 00:46:51,639 --> 00:46:53,119 nobody's going to miss you. When you're out there on the golf course for 575 00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:58,159 ninety minutes. That's the whole point. Part of the point is that these 576 00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:04,079 trips that you can take to these specific concepts, nobody's going to miss you 577 00:47:04,119 --> 00:47:07,760 for ninety minutes. Perfect, perfect, Augie is so great to talk to 578 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:14,920 you again. It's pias A Golf Pack Golf and it's p i z a 579 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:20,719 g o lf dot com to learn more about their design and everything that he's 580 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,960 doing. The innovation is off the charts when it comes to golf course architecture. 581 00:47:25,519 --> 00:47:30,920 Thank you, sir, appreciate appreciate it, and any any Instagram followers 582 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:36,719 at PISA Golf and we're there interacts, send us some questions and where we're 583 00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:40,400 on it. Thank you very much. Fred really appreciate it. Well. 584 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:45,360 I have a great story about this week's Golf Smarter Ambassador, Royce Cossoff from 585 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:51,719 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where he plays at McCall Golf Club. Royce is a 586 00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,840 longtime listener who even wrote a very kind review for Golf Smarter on Apple Podcasts 587 00:47:57,519 --> 00:48:02,440 back in twenty seventeen. But more in interestingly, Royce was so taken by 588 00:48:02,519 --> 00:48:08,519 hearing Jim Waldron on the podcast that he actually flew out west to Portland, 589 00:48:08,519 --> 00:48:14,760 Oregon to take two days of one on one lessons with Jim. And that's 590 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:19,880 after doing Zoom lessons with Jim for three years. So then Royce wrote and 591 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:24,920 said about his time face to face with Jim, quote absolutely life changing. 592 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:31,000 Empty your mind and listen to everything he says and you will be saved. 593 00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:37,639 Wow. And that's why we have Jim on regularly. And now Royce is 594 00:48:37,679 --> 00:48:43,679 officially a Golf Smarter ambassador. Well why don't you become one of our ambassadors. 595 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,039 Then you can take advantage of getting a free gift. If you aren't 596 00:48:47,079 --> 00:48:51,880 comfortable recording a show opening and that's been said to me, that's fine, 597 00:48:52,159 --> 00:48:55,000 But there's another way to get a choice of these three great gifts. Just 598 00:48:55,119 --> 00:48:59,880 leave the review for Golf Smarter, like Royce did, wherever you listen. 599 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,400 Then send me the text of the review you wrote and where you wrote it. 600 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,000 Or like Royce, you can record an episode opening on your phone or 601 00:49:07,039 --> 00:49:10,000 on our toll free listener line. I'm trying to make it so easy for 602 00:49:10,079 --> 00:49:15,599 you. Then you can choose one of those gifts, which includes Tony Manzoni's 603 00:49:15,679 --> 00:49:21,840 video of the Lost Fundamental Royce took advantage of the glove and glove storage compartment 604 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,760 from redroostergolf dot com. And your third choice is an eight pack of Flightpathgolf 605 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:31,840 tees at flightpathgolf dot com. Just write me directly with your review or request 606 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,239 to do a show opening, and I'll send you some simple instructions on how 607 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,480 to record. Check out today's show notes to find links about each gift you 608 00:49:39,639 --> 00:49:44,519 have to choose from, and when you check out the show notes, you'll 609 00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:50,239 also see the summary and the bullet points provided by AI. If you have 610 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,679 any questions comments, especially about how to get a free gift, or maybe 611 00:49:54,679 --> 00:49:59,719 you have a suggestion for an upcoming episode, write to Golf Smarter Podcast at 612 00:50:00,039 --> 00:50:05,360 mail dot com or click on the Heyfred button when you visit golfsmarter dot com