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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. I am your host Alejandro

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Rojas, and I am here with
Martin Bourgeois. Willis Bourgeois. You know

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this is a true story. I
never know what you're going to stay and

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I don't think you do. You're
right, I do you know when I

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knew when it came out of my
mouth? Yam yeah, wow. Do

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you know why I'm waiting to hear
No, it was because you just told

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me the story about visiting some poor
people, and you must have felt,

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not necessarily that you are bourgeois,
but you probably felt a bit like you

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are. I mean, I feel
humbled a bit, and I feel like,

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man, what a you know,
we just take it for granted all

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that we have. Yes, you
know, I'm not going to really get

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into the details. It was just
some really nice people here in Russia that

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just they basically live off the land
and very hard lives and they were just

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the sweetest people. So it was
really a good that was just happened tonight.

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I was talking prior to the show
in really interesting. Yeah, it's

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an interesting culture and for people who
don't know, I mean people who might

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have missed the last couple of shows
or whatever. You're in Russia, and

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this is like your third week in
Russia, that's right, yep, and

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seeing a bit of the country.
You're going to be in Moscow next week

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for about a week visiting with Putin. No. Actually he was in Sochi

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when I was in Sochi. So
he spends He has a big, huge

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compound there goes on for like blocks
and he was there then, and you

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know, I think that's where his
home is, but I'm not. I

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really don't know for sure. Where
are you, Yeah, he does.

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I'm in Nova Assisk, which is
on the Black Sea. It's directly across

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from Istanbul, Turkey. Seven hundred
miles straight across the Black Sea is Istanbul,

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Turkey. Well, if I remember
right, I remember writing about a

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UFO story there and no assist.
Yeah, because there was, there was.

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There have been a lot of sighting
and I've tried to connect with people

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here about that, and so far
I haven't been able to find any English

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speaking people I can do a show
with. But someone is trying to set

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me up with someone on the roof
ours Facebook page from Russia Moscow is trying

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to set me up with English speaking
you follow just the recorder show on podcast

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UFO when I do a show,
a pre recorded show, So I'm looking

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forward to that if that can work
out. I haven't heard back, but

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hopefully that will work out. Cool. That sounds fun. You're having a

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good time, having a great time, and it's really different. And you

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know what, we really take a
lot of things for granted. I just

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want a cold glass of water,
and everyone, you know, drink No

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one drinks cold water here, they
you know, And it's just the little

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things you get used to that.
It's you know, I can't wait to

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go back and have a nice cold
glass of water. When are you going

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to be back the around the first
of June? Okay, and that's assuming

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they let you out. That is
right, as far as I know,

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I can still get out. But
you never know here you really don't not

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even not even joking you and you
can get out, that's right. Yeah,

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we had to bribe the chiuara in. We might have to bribe him

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out. Yeah, you never know. Well, good, if you have

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money, you can do about anything
here. But you know that's you gotta

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have the cash. Yeah. Well, I hope you get Peanut out because

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I hope you bring him again.
This February to the conference because I'd like

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to hate chill with Peanut again.
He's a great one, that one.

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Yeah, yeah, all right,
well this is actually a UFO show.

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Oh I forgot, Yeah, but
I thought I wanted to hear about what

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you were there. But we talked
a little bit about UFOs there for a

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second, I think. But yeah, there's the travel portion of the show.

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And we do have someone talking about
UFOs later in the show, and

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that would be our guest interview,
and that is Cheryl Costa, who writes

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for the Syracuse New Times on UFOs. Yeah, she's an interesting person.

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Has I was surprised that when I
had a talk with her of some of

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the data she had in the sightings, especially out you know, toward Long

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Island and stuff like that, really
amazing. What's fun, too, is

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I found out how her blog came
about, and that's a great story.

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So that's a lot of fun and
so and you know, seeking to write

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a UFO blog, which is interesting. So yeah, it's really cool that

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she's got this online. It's very
popular writing about UFO stories. We talked

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about her how she goes about choosing
the types of stories she writes and lots

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of fun stuff, lots of cool
sightings and stuff, so so yeah,

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it's great. She actually spoke at
the UFO Congress this last year. Was

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it last year of the year before
twenty fifteen. Maybe you're right, I

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get them all mixed up. You're
probably grys. Yeah, I think you're

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right. It was a one before. But as for the conference, we're

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we've already got the a lot of
speakers. Oh, I've got him.

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We're going to be getting a names
out fairly soon and taking registration fairly soon

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too, so we're already getting ramped
up for the next conference. Can you

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drop any names yet? No?
All right, never mind, let's move

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on. Not yet but soon.
So again, as usual, a great

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list of names, and some people
you probably haven't heard speak that you may

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have thought, oh man, I
would like to hear that person speak,

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and now you're going to have your
chance. And of course these are people

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who we know have some great work
that they've done recently, so very very

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exciting stuff. Great, But before
we get into that, let's get into

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UFO news. And that's what you
usually are here to join me and talk

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about. And usually you have a
UFO story to talk about to start things

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off, is that the case today. It is indeed, and this takes

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place, you know, near New
York. It's actually in New Jersey and

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this happened back in on June twenty
ninth, twenty fifteen. It's a move

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on report written by Jeff by Roger
Marsh and basically it's a New Jersey witness

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says, ufo lights are connected by
a black bar now at night. I'm

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not really sure how they'd know that
it was black bar or not, or

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a different color or whatever. But
this took place in the Monroe township,

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which has a population of approximately forty
thousand people, and the reported the people

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that reported it were videotaping it two
bright lights in the sky that appeared to

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be connected, and according to the
witness, they said, basically, here's

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a quote here, So I looked
up in the sky and saw a large

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bright white light attached to a smaller
bright light that appeared to be a black

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bar attaching them and unquote. And
so this was looked into by New Jersey

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field investigator Glenn Green, and he
said the pictures were actually above average,

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and he wrote in his report the
fact that they commonly walked back to the

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house when the object was in full
hover outside was telling I'm ruling out a

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glider being told because it was at
night and the angle of the object was

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very low and not moving tends to
satellite and this one they ended the report

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as an unknown so far. So
anyway, I thought it was a pretty

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interesting observation. And there's a video. You can check out the video and

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watch it for yourself. There's a
little kid that's pretty cute saying some things

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about it. But yeah, it's
a good story. What did you think

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of the video? Well, it's
hard to say, you know. I

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mean, I thought, you know, they're just stationary lights. It's always

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hard to tell when it's lights in
the sky at night, but you know,

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they were definitely unusual and really hard
to explain what something like that could

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be. It's definitely I wouldn't say
it was anything to do with Chinese lanterns

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or anything like that. Yeah,
I agree, Chinese lanterns, but it's

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hard to tell. It's kind of
a short video, just a couple of

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lights in this guy, so you
can't really make a whole lot out,

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and like you said, you can't
make out a black bar in between the

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lights. So maybe just visually they
could see that better than it recorded.

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But the little girl is cute,
Yeah, on the video, I understand.

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I understand also about when I don't
know if you've ever tried to tape

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anything with you, like your iPhone
or something, but that it's hard.

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Yeah, I mean it's so much
better to see by the naked eye.

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It's by one of those things.
But yeah, by far, I mean

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at night, I mean you can't
really zoom in and out. Even if

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you could, there's not much light, so it can't get as much detail.

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Uh So you're right, it's difficult. Although Phoenix move On or Arizona

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move On had a meeting on Saturday, and they brought in Ruben Uriarte,

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which was a lot of fun.
You've had him on your show, I'd

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assume yes apt times. Yeah,
he's great. So and he's out of

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California. But we did a night
watch and we walked up this path and

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the chief investigator for the area,
Dennis frayer Mouth, I've talked about him,

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raved about him before, but he
brought this black light and I've never

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seen a live scorpion out here in
Arizona, and with this black light,

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however, he was we went through
and we found a couple. They're so

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small and they blend in and they're
they're skittish. They don't run up to

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you. They try to hide,
and it's hard to get him to even

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move if you poke him produm like
you know, which I don't recommend at

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all. And you can hear in
this video, I'm telling someone stop it

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quick, you know, but because
I'm gonna post it. But yeah,

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it looks really cool. They glow
in the black light and it's kind of

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amazing. So that's just a night
video where lighting this thing up with black

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light made it visible on the phone
and it looks really cool. Just reminded

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me of a night video I took
of a not so anomalous object, but

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cool again. Right now, did
you do any like was this a SkyWatch?

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Did you say, yeah, SkyWatch? So luckily, you know,

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we were able to take a couple
of We've got a couple of night vision

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things here at Open Minds that we
took up there, but it was a

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little cloudy, so we couldn't see
a lot of sky. In fact,

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I don't even know that we were
even to spot it, able to spot

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his satellite because it was so cloudy. Earlier on in the night, it

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cleared up a little bit, but
it was still a lot of fun.

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We didn't see anything anomalous this time, unfortunately, and we were there with

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our night vision camera ready to capture. But yeah, that's something that we

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do out here a casely. However, for the rest of the summer it'll

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probably be too hot, so we
won't be able to do that again until

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it cools down and the late fall. Now, I've always heard that it

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really cooled down at night even during
the summer, and that no, no,

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like, no, it doesn't time, no, no, no,

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Unfortunately, sometimes it'll cool down like
ten degrees, but of course if it's

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one hundred and five or one hundred
and ten, it's still one hundred degrees

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at night, and it's too hot. So some parts of the year it

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does cool down a bit more,
but some parts of the year sometimes it's

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just as hot at night, I
mean, because it just like the temperature

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gets a little hotter even once the
sun goes down, and so it like

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stays consistent where it barely cools down
at all. So yeah, it still

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gets too warm at night, but
times like this where actually the next few

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days are a little cool, but
times like this time of year cools down

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a bit more. So it was
perfect out there the other night when we

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were out there, it was really
nice, all right. So yeah,

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So a couple other stories to get
to this one. Have you see did

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you see the interview Leslie Kane did
with yes? Uh huh, so you

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were able to look at it?
Yes, yeah, very very good Christopher

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Christopher Mellon. Yeah, So this
was a great interview that she did,

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and I wrote a kind of a
summary of it and kind of I think

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the core part of what he was
trying to say essentially, but her interview,

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the whole thing is fascinating. So
Leslie Kane, of course, she

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wrote the book UFOs. Generals and
other important people talk about UFOs. That's

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not what it's called, but I
can't remember the exact pilots and government officials.

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Yeah, there you go, And
it's a great book and it's New

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York Times bestseller and it's I think
made an incredible impact on his field and

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people taking it seriously. And one
of the people she's been able to contact

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because of a careful way she approaches
this topic is Christopher Mellon, and he

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is a guy who's retired, but
he worked in intelligence with intelligence organizations his

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whole career in the Department of Defense. He even won a couple of awards,

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including a Defense Intelligence Agency Director's Medal. At one point, they show

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her him with a picture with different
officials. He worked for a couple of

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presidents. So, but he's always
been into UFOs ever since he was a

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kid, which I think is fascinating. And he talks about this, but

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he essentially said that there's first of
all, Hillary Clinton, although she was

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Secretary of State, would not know
anything necessarily, because he says, and

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he actually sent me because I had
a mistake in my story. I wrote

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that even if she was president,
she wouldn't have access to compartmentalized programs or

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as he calls them, SAPs,
and those are special access programs, sorry,

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which means they're very highly secret programs. And he says in the past

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they have denied people who have asked
from the White House. I wrote that,

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and he said he actually got a
hold of me, which was really

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exciting, and he said, I
just want to clarify because this wasn't clear.

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And this is an important point that
however, even though as Secretary of

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State, we could deny her access. We don't deny president any access.

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If a president asks about a program
and wants to be briefed on it,

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we will do it. The statement
he said was we move mountains for presidents,

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which I think is really interesting.
He made it sound as though presidents

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don't really ask because really they rely
on their advisors and their advisors giving them

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information, so they usually don't stray
outside of what their advisors are giving them.

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But that's interesting, No, even
though yeah, yes, I had

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the pleasure of having a conversation with
Christopher actually, oh you did really interesting

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and he did mention about this thing, having a going back and forth with

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you about it. But it's really
interesting to think this way that it's possible

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that when a president gets in office, even if they thought, well,

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this is one of the things I
want to check out, that they're so

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overwhelmed with with all other topics,
especially United the state of the world,

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that this is when it kind of
goes down on the list. And Chris

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himself said, you know, this
is probably the most important information ever that

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we could find. If we do
find that there's we are actually being visited

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by you know, extraterrestrials would be
like the most important thing humankind could know.

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So it is, let's just say, if Hillary gets in, who

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knows, if you know, she'll
even remember that statement she made a couple

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of times. I'm sure she'll be
reminded of it. Yeah, I'm sure

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she will. But we'll see how
far she wants to push it. But

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the problem, the thing is is
that he feels, even if she does

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decide to pursue it, there's nothing
to how He says that, you know,

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having even worked with and visited Area
fifty one, he had an oversight

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he was involved with like auditing,
the like underwriting or groups. Yeah,

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just going so he was there to
touch on all these programs and the entire

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time, he said he never saw
or was given an inkling that anyone was

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interested in UFOs. Even at Area
fifty one, there were people that contacted

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him like this incredible sighting from a
Navy guy. But that these guys you

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know, nothing in an official capacity. And what's interesting is, he says,

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very much like John Alexander says,
that this frustrates him that they all

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kind of treat the UFO topic like
a hot potato. If there's a UFO

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sighting, they try to bury it. They don't want anything to do with

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it because it's embarrassing, so they
want it to go away. And so

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it's kind of like Alexander calls it
ignorance or idiocy. I think he's even

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called it. He's a little stronger, and but Melan is frustrated that they

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don't take it seriously and he thinks
that they should. But essentially he's saying

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there's no big government conspiracy there though. And you know, I think one

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of the things that was when we
had the conversation, a point that he

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made was that he's really going out
on a limb doing this, and I

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thought that was really interesting. He
says, this is my reputation and you

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know what if I want to run
for office and all that. So he's

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really going out on a limb because
he wants, like the UFO data to

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really do scientific research. He wants
people to take it seriously, and he

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wants it to be approached, right
mm hmmm. Yeah. So when he's

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joined the UFO Data Group, this
is a group of scientists and other professionals

243
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who are trying to put together some
kind of telemetry. We've interviewed Mark d'

244
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antonio often who's doing something similar,
but unfortunately they're doing these separate lee but

245
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yeah, where they're going to be
able to try to observe these stations that

246
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will observe this guys to try to
capture video, but other telemetry like electromagnetic

247
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frequencies and different light spectrums and stuff
like this when an event occurs to better

248
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understand the phenomena. So he's involved
with that because he thinks that science needs

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to really pursue this. So yeah, I think it's even though some of

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you are like, oh man,
these guys full of crib you know,

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probably thinking that right now. Read
his interview, the full interview. You

252
00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:59.079
can find links to the interview and
a summary of the interview at Open Minds

253
00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:02.880
to at TV, but read the
full interview. Definitely go and do that

254
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because it's I think it's great.
So it is really did you talk to

255
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him on the phone? I did, And if I can say a little

256
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spoiler, he's going to be on
my show June first. Oh okay,

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wow, great, yeah cool?
So and and uh yeah, he's he's

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like really into this topic and basically
what I've asked him to do there's a

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lot of comments, is like one
hundred and fifty comments underneath the posting on

260
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the Huffington Post, And I said, why don't we address some of these

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intelligent questions that are on there that
people are asking, like barely there's intelligent

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questions in the comments. There's a
couple of the there's a couple. That's

263
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why I said, you know,
weed him out and ask a few of

264
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the ones that actually make sense and
are addressing, because when someone does an

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interview and they post questions under it, a lot of times people really do

266
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have those questions, you know,
and it's good to address them. Yeah,

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well the last yeah, go ahead
if they're not too goofy, right,

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or just being flat out jerks,
which so many people do. Nancy

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Drake or namely Nadia Drake is her
name. I did all the female and

270
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names Naughtia Drake. Frank Drake's daughter
did an article about how she thinks it's

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ridiculous that Hillary's talking about UFOs,
but she's really disparaging the whole topic of

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UFOs and which is unfortunate. But
man, oh man, people attacked her

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and they were mean and they just
sound like idiots. Unfortunately, I mean,

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of course, I think there's a
great argument to be made, and

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I did comment, and I did
comment about how it's unfortunate even well known

276
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UFO researchers are in there attacking her
personally, and which is really sad because

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they just sound like complete jerks and
they are being completely unprofessional in trying to

278
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make their argument. But yeah,
so even you know, the most of

279
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the comments were just so heated,
so just awful that you know, there's

280
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a way to have civil discussion with
people, and people appreciate that much more,

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as Mellon said in his interview,
which I thought was really great.

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Yeah, But moving on to the
last story just very quickly, is I

283
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just think it's kind of fun.
Is this ghost story that has to do

284
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with UFOs and it's a UK story. It was posted by Roger Marsha to

285
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:42.640
move on story where this couple was
at Saint Just in Cornwall and this actually

286
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:48.920
happened in nineteen ninety three. They
were in their little MG car and they

287
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:53.000
decided to go get some fish and
chips and then go to the coast.

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There's these coastal, beautiful coastal cliffs
to watch the ocean and enjoy the little

289
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meal. Well, while they're there, they see a guy coming up the

290
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cliff. He looks like they call
him an olden times smuggler from the seventeen

291
00:25:10.759 --> 00:25:17.559
hundreds or eighteen hundreds period, and
they say he has a smuggler type of

292
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coat, a large wooden staff,
and a small barrel or keg under his

293
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right arm. They said he looked
like a character from Pole Dark and Pole

294
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Dark is an era television show that's
been on well here in the US,

295
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:38.319
it's on PBS, a Masterpiece Theater
you can catch it, but it's a

296
00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:42.000
BBC show. It looks great.
I haven't seen it, but I love

297
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:47.400
those shows. But yeah, so
you could see what they're talking about.

298
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Anyways, this guy disappears and then
soon after behind them there's this white orb

299
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that is floating there before it disappears. Of course, the orbit the UFO,

300
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and they felt that this what they
feel is a ghost had something to

301
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do with this UFO. So kind
of a fun, weird sighting that was

302
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:18.799
reported to move on. It's either
interdimensional or time travel right there. Yeah,

303
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.680
no, that is a strange one. And you know, I heard

304
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:26.920
I've heard people say that they think
everything's connected, you know, all these

305
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:30.440
things that connect and sometimes you hear
stories that makes you wonder if there may

306
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.720
be a little bit of truth to
that. Yeah, yeah, weird one,

307
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.480
but yeah, pretty interesting. And
I don't know, the visuals are

308
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.920
fun, you know them going to
I think we can all kind of imagine

309
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:48.160
those beautiful cliffs that are in England
that they have and you know, taking

310
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your little car and having some fish
and chips and experiencing this. I think,

311
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:56.640
you know, it's kind of what
goes on in your mind, especially

312
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:02.119
for Americans if you're vacationing. You
know, you think of the television shows

313
00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:07.119
that relate to these sort of things
and so funny, so fun. Well

314
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that's it. That's all the news
I got for today. What about you.

315
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:15.720
I'm good over across the pond.
Okay, yeah, you're way across

316
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:21.839
the out there, So you enjoy
your trip the rest of your trip out

317
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:26.279
there and Russia and be safe.
Hi Will, thanks man, have a

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00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.119
good show with Cheryl. All right, yep, thank you very much,

319
00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:33.480
and thanks for joining us. Let's
go ahead and talk to Cheryl. I

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00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:40.559
am very excited to have Cheryl Costa
on the phone. Hello, Hi,

321
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.440
how are you good? How are
you doing? Terrific? It's an absolute

322
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.200
treat to be on your show,
sir. Oh, well, it's wonderful

323
00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:51.279
to have you. You know,
we've met several times at the conference.

324
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You spoke at our conference, which
was wonderful to have you speak. And

325
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:59.960
of course, I, like probably
many of the listeners are reading your articles

326
00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:07.359
online quite regularly. Thank you.
I appreciate that a lot. Yeah,

327
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.839
So, I guess we'll start off
with because this is the first time you've

328
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:18.720
been on with a podcast surprisingly over
the years, you know, having followed

329
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:25.559
your work, but now you're here, and so what originally got you into

330
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:29.599
UFOs? Have you been into this
since you were a kid? Yes,

331
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:34.079
I guess my first site what really
got me into it? I was about

332
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:40.880
twelve and it was the tail end
of August in an upstate New York that's

333
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:45.400
really seriously getting in the fall.
And it was a clear blue sky one

334
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:48.440
Sunday afternoon. We were coming back
from an uncle's house in the country and

335
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:55.039
we were coming down the side of
a hill looking westward and sit parked out

336
00:28:55.079 --> 00:29:00.279
there in the sky at about forty
five degrees from the ground was this big

337
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:07.640
silver ball, clear blue sky,
no clouds. There he was and it

338
00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:10.880
was there for a good twenty minutes. My father pulled the car off the

339
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:12.799
side of the road and we sat
there and looked at it. Mom explained

340
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:15.559
to me, you know what this
might be. Yeah, okay, it

341
00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:18.839
could be an Air Force balloon or
something like this, but you know,

342
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:22.000
it also might be people from another
world. And we talked. She was

343
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:29.119
very very very very very gentle but
explaining it to me, and that got

344
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:34.960
the two of us really really bonded
in that one context. Okay. And

345
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:40.160
what was funny was my father started
driving again and I watched that thing for

346
00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:44.119
about another ten minutes, and when
it decided to go, this thing was

347
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:47.720
no balloon. This thing shot off
like a starship gone, you know,

348
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:52.640
wow, And it was amazing to
see and it changed my life. Now.

349
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:57.119
The deal is, from that time
on tough high school, my mom

350
00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:02.440
and I would go to the library. This is late sixties. We were

351
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:06.480
getting books by Frank Edwards and all
of these guys, you know, and

352
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:08.440
if i'd get it, i'd read
it and share it with her. She'd

353
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:11.160
get one, read it, share
it with me. And then I went

354
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:17.680
off to join the Air Force in
nineteen seventy and I had an experienced when

355
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:22.480
I was in Vietnam. It was
Christmas Eve. I was walking to the

356
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:27.160
Bass Chapel to go to midnight Mass
with some friends, and I looked up

357
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:30.200
in the sky and saw the single
moving across the sky. I thought it

358
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.799
was a star, and I thought, well, maybe it's just a plane.

359
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:37.920
And plenty of jets in Vietnam at
that time. And all of a

360
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:44.119
sudden, I'm looking up at it
and it stops, sits there right underneath

361
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:48.599
the constellation Tourus, and then starts
darting around in a weird little pattern,

362
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:55.400
and then bang, he was gone, you know. And again. For

363
00:30:55.960 --> 00:31:00.039
the probably the next twenty years,
I was read on the topic matter,

364
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:07.079
read everything Stanton Friedman ever wrote,
but I was more largely a UFO bystander.

365
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:12.480
I was interested in the topic.
In the early nineties, I got

366
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:21.119
hospitalized about the time. I was
between apartments and a friend of mine he

367
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:23.920
said, Hey, I'm taking care
of my dad. He's got taking chemo.

368
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:29.079
Here's the keys to my house over
in the suburbs of the suburbs of

369
00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:32.480
Maryland. And he says, go
over there, feed the cat, pay

370
00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:37.039
the utilities. So I did.
I went over there, and I recuperated

371
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:41.680
over there for several months. Okay, this guy get every hardback first edition

372
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:47.279
of all the major UFO publications up
until about nineteen ninety one. Wow.

373
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:51.920
So I in this house had no
cable, so I had plenty to read.

374
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:57.839
And so we're going, okay,
fine again, I'm a bystander.

375
00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:00.960
I'm interested in the top I think
I was very conversant in it, but

376
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:05.319
I really didn't talk about other people
unless I knew they were into it.

377
00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:08.079
Okay, here we go. Many
years later, I'm a career leve.

378
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:15.319
I'm a career person with Lockheed Martin
thirty two years. I retired back in

379
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:19.519
twenty eleven. And again, nothing
to do with UFOs. I'm working for

380
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:24.440
a newspaper and one night I happened
to look up at the CNN dot com,

381
00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:29.200
you know, and they have little
sidebar stories and there's this one and

382
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.799
said, oh, uofos have been
on the decline, and maybe they were

383
00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:37.319
all just an urban legend anyway,
and I opened up the article and it

384
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.960
sat there, and it had the
nerve to sit there and say they've been

385
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.599
on the decline and all this bologne
and going, Man, that doesn't feel

386
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:49.920
right. So for the first time
in my life, I went out,

387
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:53.400
like to the move on website,
got on their CMS system. There their

388
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:58.480
their their website, and I pulled
a few charts over like you know,

389
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:01.319
just quick samples New York State over
the years. And you know, and

390
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:07.640
like I said two years ago at
the UFO congress there in Arizona, I

391
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:12.279
said, what memo didn't the UFOs
get because it was on a steve curve

392
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:19.920
upwards. So at that point I've
had enough. I was finishing my It

393
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.839
only took me forty years to get
my degree in writing, and I started

394
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:29.799
approaching newspaper editors here in upstate New
York. I got laughed out of thirteen

395
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:35.720
different editors offices, and with my
proposal to write a weekly column, in

396
00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:39.480
fact, I promoted it as an
online features with a lot of newspapers were

397
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:45.799
starting to try and get online type
of material going. And then I came.

398
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:51.160
I went to the Syracuse new Time. So it was a weekly and

399
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:55.079
Larry Dietrich was the executive editor there, and when I went in to go

400
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:58.359
pitch him, he wouldn't take the
pitch. Initially, he sat there and

401
00:33:58.359 --> 00:34:00.680
talked to me. He knew what
the topic matter was going to be about,

402
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:05.000
and he had apparently had read a
lot of the same books I had.

403
00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:07.640
Was we had a great conversation about
it, and he said, okay,

404
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:10.360
show me your slides, and it
was like six six pieces of paper.

405
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:14.480
Here's the charts, here's the facts, here's how many people and you

406
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:20.800
know that that National Geographic poll from
a couple of years ago. And I

407
00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:22.119
had all that, and I said, like, the demographics are here.

408
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:27.599
If we go and do an online
blog, it'll be good for boosting your

409
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:31.719
your fledgling online presence, which is
what they were trying to do. And

410
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:36.679
they hadn't had a lot of luck
at that point, so they put me

411
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:42.599
up. And this is back in
July of twenty thirteen, and I've been

412
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:49.440
there three years now and I'm one
of the heaviest read columnists at the paper

413
00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:54.280
with international readership cool on, which
is cool. So if we've been doing

414
00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:59.440
it now for three years, so
this is one hundred and over one hundred

415
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:02.480
and fifty yard. I do charts
and grass on big into statistics and that

416
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:07.880
type of thing, and a lot
of the stories that I wrote have been

417
00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:13.159
principally stuff that was here. The
column is called New York Skies and what

418
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.119
I pretty much did was I curled
through the two National Data Days, looked

419
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:20.280
at the stories of people and people
what they said. People said, well,

420
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.639
you can't prove all that. I
said, I don't have to.

421
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:25.960
It's what people say, they said, saw you know, And that's what

422
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:30.599
That's how. That's the tone I've
taken. And what's happened is because I

423
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:32.960
was very respectful of the topic.
You know, a lot of people in

424
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:37.960
the press tried to for years,
always been very snarkying, tongue in cheek

425
00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:45.159
about it until recently, really and
and so I started getting emails inviting me

426
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:47.239
in the backyard barbecues we went he
to come over and talk to our uncle

427
00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:51.639
Ralph, you know. So I'd
go over and have a glass of lemonade

428
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:53.440
with them and a hot dog,
and Uncle Ralph would sit down and you

429
00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:57.599
can see it in their eyes if
they're genuine. It's like a case of

430
00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:00.400
like the soldiers have the case of
PTAD. You can see it in their

431
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:05.320
eyes or reliving it again when they're
telling it to you. And I've had

432
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:09.039
heard some amazing things, so I've
written them up as they come. I

433
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:13.360
have to change the names. We
have an understanding with the editor. We're

434
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:17.440
changing, We change the names even
if we know the real names, and

435
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:21.840
unless they're dead, Unless they're dead, that's a different ballgame. But that's

436
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:23.519
kind of how I got into this. Yeah, I had to go out

437
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:27.880
there and tell the truth. How
cool. Well, that's really cool that

438
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:32.079
you are bold enough to kind of
take this idea of a UFO, you

439
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:37.199
know, weekly, and and after
trial and error, you finally got someone

440
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:42.000
to look to take it. Huh. Yeah, that's that's how it worked.

441
00:36:42.199 --> 00:36:46.320
Like I said, I went out
there and pitched for probably six seven,

442
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:50.199
eight weeks. It was like about
two editors a week. And one

443
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:54.000
of the interesting things is I reached
out to the local bureau chief of the

444
00:36:54.239 --> 00:37:00.719
Associated Press at one point, and
you know the answer I got back from

445
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:06.440
him, Huh, we're not the
old Associated Press. We don't report things

446
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:13.559
like that anymore. What the heck
was that supposed to mean that? I

447
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:19.840
don't know. I guess they just
decided they drank from the same kool aid

448
00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:22.960
the New York Times did many years
ago and decided they won't they won't report

449
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:28.239
the topic, although now it's sort
of changing with everything going on with Hillary.

450
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:31.440
Yeah, so that's interesting. Yeah, but it's really cool that you

451
00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:36.719
were able to get on there.
Of course, is the Syracuse New Times

452
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:39.320
like we have the Phoenix New Times. Here are they kind of owned by

453
00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:43.920
the same group? No, they
aren't. And you know it's funny.

454
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:50.800
About four months ago I wrote them
a proposal and said, hey, here's

455
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:54.960
a chart of what the UFO sightings
in the last fifteen years. This is

456
00:37:55.039 --> 00:38:00.079
part of my national magnitude study I've
been working on. And I sent the

457
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:04.519
Maturity and says, hey, here's
the UFO sightings for every county in Arizona

458
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:08.039
for the last of fifteen years.
I said, would you here's the column

459
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:12.239
I write for New Times, And
I gave him a link and I said,

460
00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:14.440
I, how would you like me
to write a similar thing. We'll

461
00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:17.119
just call it Arizona's Guys, and
I can write a similar thing for you

462
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:22.519
guys. It's some tremendous things for
our online edition. Not a peep out

463
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.480
of them. And I said,
hey, you've got Phoenix fights coming up,

464
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:29.719
why not christen this in with that
kind of flavor. No, not

465
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:31.760
a peep out of them. Yeah, not surprised. You know, there's

466
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:35.800
a strong, you know, UFO
presence out here with you. Lots of

467
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:40.679
UFO researchers with the Phoenix Sights and
all the other media actually is really into

468
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:44.719
it, and you know, they
talked to us, they talked to move

469
00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:47.800
on quite a bit in the area. But the Phoenix New Time, it's

470
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:53.719
one media outlet, perhaps the media
outlet that covers this the least actually interesting

471
00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:59.519
enough. Yes, and that's what
surprised the heck out of me. I

472
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:05.079
probably will them better with the what's
set one out there in Fountain there Fountain,

473
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:09.039
Yeah, and they send yeah,
they send a reporter and what I

474
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:14.519
found is interesting. That's why it's
neat that the Syracuse News New Times started

475
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:21.719
running our articles because like in Denver, uh, the alternative paper was called

476
00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:25.760
Westward, and they also were kind
of hostile to the UFO topic. In

477
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:30.000
fact, we had a symposium out
there and they they made fun of it,

478
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:32.920
and then the reporter came and he
loved it and wanted to write a

479
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:37.280
follow up about how credible it was, and they wouldn't let him do that.

480
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:42.480
So similar I think they fight for
credibility, so they're careful about that

481
00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:45.559
sort of thing. So it's neat
because it's Syracuse New Time is kind of

482
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:51.639
an alternative paper out there. But
they do that. I mean, they've

483
00:39:51.639 --> 00:39:54.159
got your story on the front page
right now. I'm noticing. Yeah,

484
00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:59.679
I'm one what they call the as
my editor. I'm a Friday guy,

485
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:02.599
you know. They they put me, they put me up on Fridays.

486
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:08.519
There's new there's new content on the
see the print edition is published on Wednesdays,

487
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:15.000
okay, but the online and I'm
not in the print edition and the

488
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:21.679
but the online edition, there's new
material, new columnists almost every day,

489
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.800
and we have a re rotate through
through. Uh. When we started doing

490
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:31.480
the UFO column, there were three
of us and we couldn't we couldn't get

491
00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:36.400
bloggers to come and work with us
at the paper. And then we started

492
00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:40.880
developing some serious credibility. We had
these really good blogs, and suddenly the

493
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:45.400
bloggers started coming to us. And
they've got about ten that they rotate right

494
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:47.719
now. So it's new material every
day. In fact, when I was

495
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:55.079
at the twenty fourteen UFO Congress,
I reported live every day from the convention.

496
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:00.960
I would go back to my room
at night and not a four hundred,

497
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:05.039
five hundred word article. My spouse
would prove it and we put it

498
00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:07.760
online, send it back to the
editor and he headed up the next morning.

499
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:12.719
First thing cool, So that was
kind of a unique thing. Plus,

500
00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:15.559
I was a shooting video up in
the suite, and I'm sending back

501
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:19.840
video clips and interviewing Jan Hardison from
You Move On, and I got to

502
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:22.800
talk to the guy from Firing the
Sky and all that kind of stuff.

503
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:29.880
And it really does great things for
an online column to have that kind of

504
00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:32.280
visibility, right, And I mean, that's what's great that it's online.

505
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:36.960
Really, who cares about the print, especially for me because that's far away.

506
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:40.079
I'm never going to see the print. But all of us get to

507
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:45.559
enjoy your online articles all around the
country and well around the world. Well,

508
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:50.400
well, that's the cool thing.
I had been up about a year

509
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:57.480
and just before I came to speak
at the Congress. The December thirty first

510
00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:05.960
editorial for the print edition and the
online edition, Larry Dietrich wrote wrote an

511
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:12.639
editorial and he says, the most
popular column at this paper is not in

512
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:15.639
print. It's on our online edition. And he says, oh, Cheryl's

513
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:20.239
got international readership. We think if
we put her in the printed paper,

514
00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:24.840
we'd probably hurt her. Yea.
So they're quite contently keeping me the electronic

515
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:29.119
nave and at one point he called
me and told me I had a thousand

516
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:37.000
meads in Russia. You know that's
cool. So what are people interested in

517
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:42.199
out there? What have been some
of your big stories? You know what

518
00:42:42.239 --> 00:42:45.880
they really like? And we don't
know. My spouse has got the psychology

519
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:52.800
degree, so she says it's because
it's comfortable. They like vintage stories.

520
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:57.920
One of the earliest recorded ones we
have here in New York is set around

521
00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:04.400
seventeen ninety in Scullari County of Wow
Dutch. A Dutch a Dutch settler up

522
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:07.760
there saw what he called to be
a meteor came in around sunset from the

523
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:12.800
north and when it got down into
his field and hovered over the field,

524
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:15.840
he said, it was like a
long snake. In the front end of

525
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:17.920
it, or what he thought was
the front end looked like a tree uprooted.

526
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:22.559
So if you kind of hold your
arm out with your hand like a

527
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:24.719
claw, you got an idea what
looked like. And he said it was

528
00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:30.360
hot and all the smell of it
coming down it was a tremendous roar.

529
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:35.360
He said, you could the placement
like sulfur and tar. For two weeks

530
00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:39.800
around his farm, Wow and it
was recorded in I got that one from

531
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:45.119
the Historical Society up that way.
We had another one. We got a

532
00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:50.639
couple of them in the New York
City area. One lady saw a huge

533
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:55.000
cross in the sky about eighteen sixty
one. There was about about the same

534
00:43:55.079 --> 00:44:01.119
time, a couple about a year
later, and this wasted by eight other

535
00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:07.920
newspapers from Albany all the way down
to Norfolk, Virginia. Okay, they

536
00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:14.199
saw these two balls of fire going
across the sky. But the thing that

537
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:20.679
the New York reporters said, you
know, it was in the sky going

538
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:25.639
across the horizon for almost a minute, unlike normals shooting star like, oh

539
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:30.039
there it's gone, you know,
And it was in the sky. We

540
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:34.800
did a calculation out of myself and
another physics person sat down. Calculated the

541
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:42.280
window of an early evening sky would
be about a sixty mile arc and we

542
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:47.599
estimate the speed to be about thirty
five hundred miles an hour, which is

543
00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:52.920
a good speed for a reentry for
something like a space shuttle. And it

544
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:58.760
was last scene and just going into
a cloud bank in Norfolk, Virginia,

545
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:07.000
near Norfolk, virgin It's these older
stories people like I guess as my spouse

546
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:12.280
puts it, they feel comfortable with
something that happened some long time ago.

547
00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:17.239
I find it if I reported anything
much pasted about nineteen ninety, people get

548
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:23.440
a little twitchy about it. Yeah. Personal interesting. Yeah, it's weird

549
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:29.280
how people are a bit like that, because I love, you know,

550
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:32.719
even the fifty sixties type of stuff. But often I'll get some flack when

551
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:36.880
we print about that. Oh you
know what about the new stuff. But

552
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:42.559
there's exciting stuff, and of course, going way back, if people are

553
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:49.239
seeing craft flying around, that's even
more significant. We had one story where

554
00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:54.559
you're able to correlate with two different
two different sightings in a newspaper article.

555
00:45:54.800 --> 00:46:00.719
To support that, heard a story
from Matthew Sure of mine, who was

556
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:05.559
dying of cancer. This is back
about two thousand and five ish. He

557
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:07.880
sat down and had a cup of
coffee with me and said, you remember

558
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:09.800
Sow and so he went to high
school with him. I said, yeah,

559
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:13.960
well he was killing the car wreck. But I gotta tell you something.

560
00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:17.599
The kid was psychic. I said, okay, so you know,

561
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:22.679
and he says, well, one
night he was sitting in my front porch

562
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:28.079
and there had been all this who
how about UFOs. It was like the

563
00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:31.599
year after the Northeast blackout, and
we had a lot of UFO sightings around

564
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:37.199
power stations up here in New York. And so he said the kid was

565
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:39.280
psychic, and he said, well, I'm gonna try and call one.

566
00:46:39.320 --> 00:46:43.159
And everybody on the front porch.
It was the summer night, everybody laughed

567
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:46.519
and everything, and he closed his
eyes, quieted himself, and everybody's just

568
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:50.679
yeah, yeah, all right,
fine, you know, And that was

569
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:53.400
it, and Scott went on his
business, on Bob's business, went home.

570
00:46:53.920 --> 00:47:00.119
The next morning, the local newspaper
reported that now there's people in town

571
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:05.239
saw a U of flow flying at
Treetop Heights on the north side of town

572
00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:12.559
where this kid was. What's none
nuts about it was a person the same

573
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:15.440
date who I met much later,
only about two years ago. I met

574
00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:16.960
this person, and we areally correlate
the date bag we said it in his

575
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:22.039
diary saw it, and he saw
it out in the country where it went

576
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:24.159
out and moved out into the country. And I was saying, he gave

577
00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:27.320
me such an accurate description. I
was able to go to you know,

578
00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:31.239
those those the really big chart of
you know, the UFO profiles. I

579
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:35.280
was able to pull that out show
it to him and he said that one,

580
00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:37.960
you know, none of this a
bright light in the sky something he

581
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:44.519
pointed at a specific profile. Wow, that's pretty cool. And you know

582
00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:50.840
what's interesting too, is I hear
from some people everything from I've heard one

583
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:55.119
recording of a deathbed confession from a
mom. We saw this back during the

584
00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:59.840
war, you know, that type
of thing, and then other people who

585
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:02.679
are you know getting up there and
they figure, well, the government can't

586
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:07.239
come and get me. And I
get that's the biggest predicating thing I hear

587
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:13.239
all the time. They're afraid the
government's going to come get them or everybody

588
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:15.239
is going to make fun of them. And the reason they didn't report it

589
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:20.480
back in nineteen sixty or nineteen seventy
was because everyone in their family told them

590
00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:24.800
not to, which is weird.
Huh, isn't that so strange? I

591
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:30.239
found that change when I became an
field investigator form mof ON. Is that

592
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:34.519
a lot of them, you know, would right off the bat say that

593
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:37.199
you know, I would like to
stay anonymous. I'm afraid. Do you

594
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:40.960
think I'm going to get in trouble? Where's the government going to be mad

595
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:46.039
at me? It's interesting that people
have that perception. Yeah, you know.

596
00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:52.000
And what's funny is when I was
working at my national study the last

597
00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:57.360
six months, I've been crawling through
I've completely compiled all the national UFO Reporting

598
00:48:57.400 --> 00:49:00.199
Center data into a data in my
own database, and I've scrubbed the data,

599
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:06.159
so I've gotten rid of certain things
that were, you know, report

600
00:49:06.199 --> 00:49:08.800
for Beijing, China in an Alabama, I'm reporting. You know, I've

601
00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:15.519
gotten rid of that stuff. But
what was interesting was I find an average

602
00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:21.119
of about six percent for any one
state, somewhere between five and seven percent,

603
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:27.360
and average of six of unspecified cities. And in some of these unspecified

604
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:32.079
cities and report, it'll say,
uh, I don't feel comfortable telling you

605
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:36.800
is the answer they put in the
city block or I've been asked not to

606
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:40.679
tell you. Wow, you know, I've seen that probably two dozen times

607
00:49:40.880 --> 00:49:45.960
in the last six months as I've
been crawling through the databases. So I've

608
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:52.119
had to go through the blanks and
had put substitute in unspecified and I counted

609
00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:59.400
as a category. So the latest
state. Now getting into kind of how

610
00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:01.960
you do this, You like to
scrub the data and take this data the

611
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:06.880
latest state you kind of took a
look at in your article. I think

612
00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:13.960
that was supposted today, right,
is Pennsylvania And what did you find looking

613
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:21.159
at Pennsylvania? Okay, well,
it's interesting there the sample period for the

614
00:50:21.320 --> 00:50:28.679
entire study, the records were just
coming online in late nineties, you know,

615
00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:31.559
with BBS's and things like this,
and not even quite the web yet,

616
00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:39.000
and so citing numbers to chart and
plot didn't really get stable till around

617
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:44.679
two thousand. So I took a
nice round number two thousand and one to

618
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:50.760
twenty fifteen, a fifteen year sample, and I took every single state,

619
00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:54.960
Puerto Rico and DC, and I
crunched their numbers, okay. And that's

620
00:50:55.000 --> 00:51:00.199
what we're publishing in our book,
the UFO Desk Reference. It's designed to

621
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:05.920
be a reference book in the library, and it's got charts, grass tables,

622
00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:12.280
Okay, doesn't call out any specific
you know, UFO siting. It's

623
00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:19.159
just numbers. But somebody something we
did. Norfolk National UFO Reporting Center data

624
00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:23.920
does not have county data, and
we went to the trouble of inserting county

625
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:28.239
data. By looking at the city. You wouldn't believe how many people can't

626
00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:31.480
spell the name of their town.
Oh yeah, Well I go through with

627
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:36.360
the move On stuff and I do
the same thing. I've been doing that,

628
00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:40.800
and yeah, I've I've found people
can't spell anything practically correctly a lot

629
00:51:40.840 --> 00:51:45.880
of the time. Now, what's
also I just we just negotiated an arrangement

630
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:51.400
with mofon here a couple of weeks
ago, my wife did. And what

631
00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:54.119
we've done is we've got the move
On data. We're in a process.

632
00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:58.159
We've just finished scrubbing it. I've
got some more entries I have to put

633
00:51:58.159 --> 00:52:02.559
in that we're upplemental and what the
plan is we're going to be combining it

634
00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:07.599
with the National UFOL Reporting Center data
for the same time period. All right

635
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:14.320
now, it looks like about it
adds about thirty five percent to the numbers.

636
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:17.920
So give you like a national national
thing with National Ufoil Reporting Center was

637
00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:24.559
about seventy one thousand sightings in fifteen
years. Add the NEK the Mouffon data

638
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:29.280
on there, and it's coming in
right now somewhere between one hundred and fifteen

639
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:32.280
one hundred and thirty thousand for the
fifteen year window. That's a huge number.

640
00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:39.039
Wow. Yeah, so that's kind
of what we've seen. Plus I

641
00:52:39.079 --> 00:52:43.440
sent some and I give you guys
that I gave you a copy I sent.

642
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:46.880
There's a guy down there, an
author down in down in Florida at

643
00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:53.599
the Sarasota Herald and Billy Cox.
He does a blog down there and he's

644
00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:59.400
been doing a lot about the disclosure
project with Steve Bassett and Paradigm Research.

645
00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:06.719
And I sent him some charts and
I showed him what he had for Florida

646
00:53:06.960 --> 00:53:08.360
and he got back to me one
day and he said, wait a minute,

647
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:12.519
you're showing us a pattern over here, because again I got county data

648
00:53:12.519 --> 00:53:15.039
in there. And he's saying,
Wow, we're seeing a pattern in someplace

649
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:19.639
where there isn't a major population center. Next thing you know, I'm hearing

650
00:53:19.639 --> 00:53:23.400
from the chief moofon investigator down there, Morgan Biale, saying, wow,

651
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:29.119
this is incredible. You know.
So the fact that we've added this county

652
00:53:29.199 --> 00:53:32.639
data is opening up all kinds of
windows to some investigators to look at the

653
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:36.760
patterns and things like this. And
that's what we've designed the book to be

654
00:53:37.239 --> 00:53:39.840
is a reference book to the next
first level of investigation. If somebody wants

655
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:45.880
to look at the tables that got
stuff there to numbers to play with one

656
00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:50.719
of the things that I find interesting, and I was because I've mostly looked

657
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:54.960
at moof on data, right,
and with the moof on data, something

658
00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:59.920
that you point out is that there
was a drop twenty fifteen from twenty four

659
00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:06.039
team that was in Pennsylvania. You
said, in other states this happens,

660
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:10.719
and I looking at the movef on
data, I always assumed it was because

661
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:16.440
of the television show that Moufon had
that's no longer on, or the show

662
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:21.639
that focused on Mofon. What's interesting, though, is that that show was

663
00:54:21.639 --> 00:54:27.599
focused on Mofon. You're using newfork
data, So I don't know that newfork

664
00:54:27.639 --> 00:54:30.880
would have been impacted by that television
show. They shouldn't have been. Yeah,

665
00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:34.760
they shouldn't have been. So what
do you think about that drop off?

666
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:42.400
Either everybody has gotten bored with the
topic matter or intrument this drop off

667
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:46.639
in the amount of high visibility sightings
in twenty fifteen. Now you do you

668
00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:51.000
know, you probably notice as well
as I do, that there's about a

669
00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:55.159
five or six year you know,
a rolling cycle, you know where it

670
00:54:55.159 --> 00:54:59.519
does dip every few years, you
know, about every five or six years,

671
00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:02.760
And I'm wondering if that's the beginning
of the dip. But giving example,

672
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:08.159
if you look at what I'm going
to call my normal chart for from

673
00:55:08.239 --> 00:55:14.480
two thousand and one to twenty fifteen, around two thousand and eight, it

674
00:55:14.679 --> 00:55:20.760
jumps, it spikes, Okay,
And John Venturrey from Muffon told me,

675
00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:23.360
well that was because we did.
I had a documentary out there on national

676
00:55:23.440 --> 00:55:30.199
television, and I buy that it's
an artifact of reporting. But what we

677
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:32.760
also noticed is well it may have
dipped a little bit. The next year

678
00:55:34.119 --> 00:55:40.119
it started a rising ramp of sightings
nationally. Okay. Now, an interesting

679
00:55:40.119 --> 00:55:50.360
thing that I've noted is seasonal differences. You guys in Arizona have terrible amount

680
00:55:50.440 --> 00:55:53.280
of sightings in the summer months down
there, and you have most of your

681
00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:59.280
sightings in the fall winter months up
here in New York State. It falls

682
00:55:59.320 --> 00:56:02.119
off in the in the winter months, and it's good and during during the

683
00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:07.719
May, June, July, August
time frame, right, which makes sense

684
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:14.599
because we're hiding from the heat in
the summer, while you guys are hiding

685
00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:17.599
from the cold in the winter.
Yeah, that's that's what we think it

686
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:22.719
is. Uh huh. So I
think the biggest thing, you know,

687
00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:27.000
how this started, that this national
study. I was going to do a

688
00:56:27.039 --> 00:56:30.639
study of the four Corners area there
with Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado.

689
00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:37.599
I was going to do a study
about that. And when I got

690
00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:40.519
looking at just some of the data
I had brought down, someone said to

691
00:56:40.519 --> 00:56:44.280
me, Jesus, too bad.
You can't do this for the whole country,

692
00:56:44.360 --> 00:56:47.880
And I said I can, So
I waited till New Year's Day.

693
00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:57.039
Network performance on the New Year's Day
was astronomically good because everybody was fighting or

694
00:56:57.079 --> 00:57:00.719
hangovers, I guess. So I
was able to download all the public data

695
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:07.079
that Newfolk had that day, did
it all in about five hours, and

696
00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:12.480
that became my process of developing a
process to scrub the data. The first

697
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:15.639
couple of them took me weeks to
do. After that, I got it

698
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:21.119
down to I got it down to
an art and I got it so that

699
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:24.079
I can do it in many many
hours or a single day on a really

700
00:57:24.079 --> 00:57:29.920
big one like California, Versus when
I did in New York State for the

701
00:57:30.039 --> 00:57:34.920
UFO Congress down in Arizona, it
took me four months to scrub the data

702
00:57:35.480 --> 00:57:38.519
because they didn't know what I was
doing. And now I do, and

703
00:57:38.599 --> 00:57:42.840
I've got it down to an art
and for the millennials who are listening,

704
00:57:43.039 --> 00:57:45.639
No, there's not an app for
that because of all the bad spelling.

705
00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:51.920
You can't write a script. To
organize everything the way you want. You

706
00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:53.880
have to go in there and really
clean it up and get rid of some

707
00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:58.880
of the junk and organize that.
Once you get it organized, it's fine.

708
00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:00.800
Then I was able to get a
zip code lists load the counties in

709
00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:05.039
there and here in New York State
and in Florida. I even did it

710
00:58:05.079 --> 00:58:08.679
by congressional first time. It's sever
and done a couple of months. About

711
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:14.800
two months ago I published in my
weekly article, I published New York States

712
00:58:15.400 --> 00:58:21.400
UFO sightings from two thousand and one
to twenty fifteen and rank them by congressional

713
00:58:21.559 --> 00:58:27.320
district. So you'll be able to
tell if there's more UFO sidings in an

714
00:58:27.320 --> 00:58:32.079
area that goes for Trump or Bernie
or something like that. That'll be interesting.

715
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:36.519
That would be cool. Yeah,
we could do that. The what

716
00:58:36.559 --> 00:58:40.480
the objective was though, was to
show what I suspected was that we have

717
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:45.639
a huge amount of UFO sightings around
the borders of New York State and around

718
00:58:45.639 --> 00:58:52.440
our water areas. Okay, and
the theme for move on symposium this year

719
00:58:52.639 --> 00:58:58.840
is Earth is Oceans in Sky,
So I was kind of screening for that

720
00:58:58.920 --> 00:59:04.559
particular flavor. Mm hmm. Yeah, which is interesting because I I've heard

721
00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:09.400
from others who have done studies although
they feel that the data supports that there

722
00:59:09.440 --> 00:59:15.480
are more UFO settings around bodies of
water. Yeah. Well here in New

723
00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:19.679
York State, Okay, at most
everybody. You talk to anybody in the

724
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:23.400
UFO community, particularly up here in
New York, and they will tell you

725
00:59:23.480 --> 00:59:30.519
all about the Eerie Lake effect.
Okay, everybody talks about the Leary Erie

726
00:59:30.599 --> 00:59:34.679
Lake Effect. Okay. In fact, to Erie, they've got to move

727
00:59:34.760 --> 00:59:37.199
on convention there in April, you
know, called the Erie Convention, you

728
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:44.039
know. And uh, what's notts
is when I did the county study for

729
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:45.679
New York State, which was the
first one I did because it's my home

730
00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:50.199
state, and I got to write
a weekly column. Uh, suddenly I'm

731
00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:53.960
seeing a similar thing over like Ontario. And when I put that chart up

732
00:59:54.159 --> 01:00:00.199
locally, the UFO man meisters around
here started going, wait, man,

733
01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:02.599
we never knew about that, Thank
god. You know, maybe maybe there's

734
01:00:02.599 --> 01:00:07.320
a base under Ontario or something,
you know, So this is we thought

735
01:00:07.360 --> 01:00:14.360
there would be something around the Finger
Lakes. Everybody thought that there wasn't it

736
01:00:14.440 --> 01:00:16.440
was up and down. It was
the Great Lakes, it was up the

737
01:00:16.519 --> 01:00:22.559
Saint Lawrence Seaway, down the Hudson
and into the Long Islands Sound. That's

738
01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:28.079
where all the heavy sightings were.
And when you look at these areas,

739
01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:36.039
is there are there areas that have
more like oval shaped sightings or triangular shaped

740
01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:42.559
sightings. Have you run across anything
like that. I didn't correlate by that,

741
01:00:43.480 --> 01:00:49.079
But another New York State guy did. His name's Tom Conwell. Think

742
01:00:49.159 --> 01:00:52.599
he just published a book. Okay, I can put you in touch with

743
01:00:52.679 --> 01:00:55.559
him. Tom is up near Albany
and he did a similar study. In

744
01:00:55.559 --> 01:01:00.800
fact, we were finishing our working
on our studies about parallel and we were

745
01:01:00.159 --> 01:01:04.880
prating notes back and forth. He
started out with a map in New York

746
01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:09.800
State and started putting pins in it
from we'll say orange fireball sightings, and

747
01:01:10.159 --> 01:01:16.519
he had a map of them and
where they clustered versus other places. And

748
01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:19.760
he has that kind of data.
In fact, he took it from New

749
01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:22.800
York State all the way down into
North Carolina. In his book, I'll

750
01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:27.000
offline, I'll send you the name
of the book because he just published it

751
01:01:27.239 --> 01:01:31.000
about two months ago, and it's
an amazing study of the shapes and where

752
01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:36.639
they are now. Me I simply
went for the numbers and I didn't break

753
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:39.119
it down by the types and things
like that. Though in the book,

754
01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:45.000
the reference book we're getting ready to
publish, we do do a breakdown of

755
01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:51.760
the shapes and we do it by
the fifteen year window and by month,

756
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:58.039
so you can see what the distribution
is by over the years and by the

757
01:01:58.079 --> 01:02:02.519
months of the months of the year. M hm, So what about at

758
01:02:02.599 --> 01:02:06.800
least for the years. I guess
it would be more anecdotal. But over

759
01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:13.280
the years you've been collecting these sightings
and doing this, have you seen changes

760
01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:21.960
in the types of reports? Yeah, it's intro Okay, a couple observations

761
01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:27.280
I made from Remember I'm in both
databases every week looking for things. Okay,

762
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:32.360
and two things I've observed from the
sightings. We owe a lot of

763
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:38.559
our sightings to smokers. I was
out having a cigarette. You wouldn't believe

764
01:02:38.559 --> 01:02:43.239
how many reports I read like that. Or I was out having a cigarette

765
01:02:43.280 --> 01:02:47.400
walking the dog. Yeah, we
have dogs to thank for this. And

766
01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:53.400
then it was that flavor of things
that I hear that a lot. We

767
01:02:53.480 --> 01:03:01.440
had one that we see up here
in New York State trying angler UFOs seem

768
01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:07.119
to be a big deal along the
throughway that cuts right through the middle of

769
01:03:07.159 --> 01:03:13.760
the state. Orange fireballs down in
the Cat Skills and other places, but

770
01:03:13.800 --> 01:03:16.880
the Cat Skills and out in the
what we call the Niagara Frontier out in

771
01:03:16.880 --> 01:03:22.519
Eurie, out there in Erie,
Buffalo, that whole area. And then

772
01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:30.239
where we've seen our share of flying
discs has been up in the North country

773
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:37.920
up along the Saint Lawrence Seaway.
That's a kind of a loose swag.

774
01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:43.199
Okay, I can't give you numbers, but that's roughly what I've noticed playing

775
01:03:43.239 --> 01:03:46.599
with the data. Mm hmm.
Wow, that's interesting. And then as

776
01:03:46.639 --> 01:03:53.840
far as changes that you've noticed in
how the media, have you seen a

777
01:03:53.920 --> 01:04:00.119
difference between when you started writing to
now, because I'm sure now you now

778
01:04:00.119 --> 01:04:06.280
that you're writing your your blog,
you pay a lot more attention to the

779
01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:11.360
meet what the media is doing on
this topic. Have you seen a difference.

780
01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:15.559
Well, yeah, give me an
example. We have a major newspaper

781
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:20.360
here in town and they're one of
the they're owned by a larger chain of

782
01:04:20.400 --> 01:04:27.519
newspapers. And I tried to approach
their VP and senior editor. When I

783
01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:31.239
had all of the county and voting
district data. I wanted to go over

784
01:04:31.239 --> 01:04:35.679
there and show him five PowerPoint slides. That's all I wanted to do.

785
01:04:36.519 --> 01:04:41.119
Could not get on his calendar once
he knew what the topic matter was,

786
01:04:42.679 --> 01:04:48.400
you know. And and it's that
closed mindedness that had me bug now.

787
01:04:48.440 --> 01:04:53.880
I reached out to the GANET papers. They're about the major Gannet papers are

788
01:04:53.880 --> 01:04:57.360
about thirty minutes about thirty five to
forty minutes down the road. I reached

789
01:04:57.400 --> 01:05:01.480
out to their VP editing who she
has interviewed me in the past, and

790
01:05:01.559 --> 01:05:09.440
I offered this stuff in the silence
was deafening. Of course, The New

791
01:05:09.519 --> 01:05:14.119
York Times has not been friendly to
this topic since the forties and especially since

792
01:05:14.159 --> 01:05:16.760
the sixties when the Conon report came
out, they published most of it in

793
01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:23.239
the paper I reached. I had
a reporter it was up here doing a

794
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:30.719
story on a different thing, and
I was at the interview as a watchdog

795
01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:32.760
to make sure. There were some
teenagers at a counseling center, and I

796
01:05:32.840 --> 01:05:38.559
was asked, as a friend of
the counseling center to sit there and make

797
01:05:38.599 --> 01:05:42.400
sure the press didn't go over the
boundaries and the rules that they had established

798
01:05:42.400 --> 01:05:45.880
where the topic matter. You know, what's on the record's off the record

799
01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:48.639
kind of thing. And she asked
me about what I was doing, and

800
01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:53.440
I told her about this column,
and she was very interested. We a

801
01:05:53.480 --> 01:05:57.760
couple of months ago, I sent
her some charts because last since January first,

802
01:05:57.760 --> 01:06:00.719
I've been building these charts. Center
some charts and I said, especially

803
01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:03.559
this one with the congressional districts.
I said, if you, if you

804
01:06:03.639 --> 01:06:10.559
and your editors are interested, I'm
available for an interview. Silence. Now,

805
01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:14.199
I'm a couple of people close to
me are expecting me to get a

806
01:06:14.199 --> 01:06:18.719
phone call, either if disclosure happens
in the near future or if Hillary wins

807
01:06:18.719 --> 01:06:21.920
and they want to suddenly it's going
to be okay to talk about UFOs.

808
01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:27.719
You know. That's that's the smart
money around me are saying, we think

809
01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:30.239
you'll hear from them. You know
the fact that they did an article recently

810
01:06:30.280 --> 01:06:35.400
about that that blew my socks off. I never thought i'd see that in

811
01:06:35.400 --> 01:06:45.280
my lifetime. Yeah, yeah,
So it's interesting then as far as uh,

812
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:48.199
your stories, I think it's cool
that you're going out and talking to

813
01:06:48.320 --> 01:06:55.519
people because not a lot of people
do that, unfortunately. And what are

814
01:06:55.599 --> 01:06:59.639
some of the fascinating, you know, uh, first hand stories you've been

815
01:06:59.679 --> 01:07:04.880
told or any situations that were just
kind of fun for you. Okay,

816
01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:12.320
one of the best ones, well, okay two, let's say the nineteen

817
01:07:12.400 --> 01:07:15.199
thirties. Okay. I had a
little old lady call me up. She

818
01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:20.719
runs a horse farm down in Tioga, Pennsylvania, which is Tioga County in

819
01:07:20.760 --> 01:07:25.159
New York State, was right down
the Pennsylvania border, but it's New York.

820
01:07:25.199 --> 01:07:31.000
Okay. She told me a story
about a Thanksgiving when and when she

821
01:07:31.159 --> 01:07:35.199
was coming back from Thanksgiving dinner at
her grandmother's house in Binging to New York.

822
01:07:35.639 --> 01:07:40.159
Now, in those days, there
wasn't the express interstate expressways that there

823
01:07:40.199 --> 01:07:43.920
is now. So what was now
from bringing to them out to what we'll

824
01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:48.119
call the Waverley area now would be
maybe a thirty five to forty minute drive

825
01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:53.360
in those days was about a two
hour drive because it was all single lane

826
01:07:54.159 --> 01:07:59.840
road, right, And they went
up over this hill and she was about

827
01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:01.840
eight or nine years old, about
about nineteen years old, she said,

828
01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:05.880
and they went up over a hill
and she screamed to her daddy to stop.

829
01:08:06.679 --> 01:08:11.360
They had pulled the car to a
stop and said, there's a greyhound

830
01:08:11.400 --> 01:08:15.480
bus down there in the cow pasture. He said, watch. This guy

831
01:08:15.519 --> 01:08:18.399
worked for IBM. He was a
smart he was a scientist for IBM.

832
01:08:18.800 --> 01:08:23.840
And they got out. She got
out, and they climbed over the fence.

833
01:08:23.920 --> 01:08:26.159
Of course, she was in her
Sunday bust and she stepping. She

834
01:08:26.199 --> 01:08:28.760
told me she was stepping in cow
pies and all that this kind of stuff.

835
01:08:29.479 --> 01:08:33.479
And got out there and there was
something, this gray thing parked out

836
01:08:33.479 --> 01:08:39.319
there in the middle of the cow
pasture. She said, it resembled a

837
01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:45.239
greyhound bus. Now, if you've
seen the sketches of what the UFO looked

838
01:08:45.279 --> 01:08:49.720
like for the Betty and Barney Hills
story like that, lots of big windows.

839
01:08:50.800 --> 01:08:56.560
And they stood there for five minutes
looking at it, and suddenly it

840
01:08:57.840 --> 01:09:00.760
flashed. It lifted off the ground, iverried about ten or fifteen feet off

841
01:09:00.760 --> 01:09:06.000
the ground, and then shot straight
up. And this is an eighty eighty

842
01:09:06.039 --> 01:09:11.880
eight year old lady was telling me
the story. Wow. And we had

843
01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:16.399
another one where, oh, okay, there was one. It's been reported

844
01:09:16.840 --> 01:09:25.239
in National UFO Reporting Center's database.
It said saw a UFO at the World's

845
01:09:25.319 --> 01:09:30.920
Fair. Okay, now I'm a
reenactor. I do different kinds of reenactment,

846
01:09:30.920 --> 01:09:33.199
medieval reenactment and larpening, that type
of thing, and I'm also in

847
01:09:33.319 --> 01:09:38.880
to what we're going to call early
twentieth century live action role play. So

848
01:09:39.560 --> 01:09:42.520
I read the article and I said
fine, because I said it was in

849
01:09:42.760 --> 01:09:48.520
nineteen thirty three, and I was, I guess, half awake one morning

850
01:09:48.560 --> 01:09:53.880
about five o'clock in the morning,
and I rolled over and said, spoke

851
01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:56.880
out loud and said, wait a
minute, there wasn't a World's Fair in

852
01:09:56.960 --> 01:10:02.800
nineteen thirty three. So I started
digging into it. There was the Chicago

853
01:10:04.199 --> 01:10:10.359
Fair of what they called the one
hundred Years of Progress. So I thought,

854
01:10:10.359 --> 01:10:13.560
well, maybe she was mistaken,
maybe it was there, but the

855
01:10:13.640 --> 01:10:19.319
description that she gave was more suited
to the nineteen thirty nine World's Fair in

856
01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:25.840
New York City. I got brochures
from both events on the internet, pds

857
01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:29.119
of them, and I read about
the things that were featured, and it

858
01:10:29.159 --> 01:10:31.720
turned out to be the World's Fair
in nineteen thirty nine. She just had

859
01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:36.760
the date wrong. So we wrote
this really nice article describing what the World's

860
01:10:36.760 --> 01:10:44.079
Fair looked like in nineteen thirty nine
and described this Ufo siting that seemed to

861
01:10:44.119 --> 01:10:48.319
come down and hover over the nightly
performance. They had a symphony orchestra out

862
01:10:48.319 --> 01:10:53.359
there, and a great light show
with gas jets coming out of the water,

863
01:10:53.560 --> 01:10:55.920
kind of these water shows, you
know, type of thing, water

864
01:10:55.920 --> 01:11:00.000
fountain shows, and that was the
nature of it. One of the other

865
01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:06.079
the big ones we had here that
got huge shares was one called the Rocket.

866
01:11:06.199 --> 01:11:11.840
In fact, if you google Cheryl
Costa and you google the rocket with

867
01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:14.960
Cheryl Costa, you'll get this article. It's out there a lot of places

868
01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:18.319
on the Internet. And there is
this kid out in Lincoln, New York,

869
01:11:18.399 --> 01:11:24.119
out by the Hudson. He was
maybe seven years old playing on his

870
01:11:24.199 --> 01:11:30.239
family's farm, and one day he
started hearing his humming sound and he looked

871
01:11:30.319 --> 01:11:34.520
up above him and he saw what
looked to be like remember what the nineteen

872
01:11:34.600 --> 01:11:40.079
thirties buck Rogers rockets looked like,
you know, And he said, it

873
01:11:40.239 --> 01:11:45.680
sort of a pick a buck Rogers
rocket. And it started lowering itself and

874
01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:48.000
as the guy closer to the ground
where he was he had laid down on

875
01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:51.880
the ground, and it hovered about
three feet off the ground right above him,

876
01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:57.199
and there was this ring that was
around it and it rotated and would

877
01:11:57.199 --> 01:12:02.560
stop click click click, Okay.
And the guy told me, he says,

878
01:12:03.920 --> 01:12:13.319
to this day, I believe those
guys pictures of me someplace. Okay.

879
01:12:14.880 --> 01:12:16.199
And he told me, he says, I really wish they would come

880
01:12:16.199 --> 01:12:18.960
out with this disclosure stuff. I'd
like to know before I die. What

881
01:12:19.000 --> 01:12:23.159
the deal is? They asked,
there's some tourists that came down to take

882
01:12:23.239 --> 01:12:29.079
pictures of the local animals or something. Huh. Yeah. And what's interesting

883
01:12:29.199 --> 01:12:33.000
is is that the story correlates about
the same time period. It's the ghost

884
01:12:33.119 --> 01:12:39.840
rockets that they had over in Europe
and Scandinavia. It's about the same period.

885
01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:45.399
So the consensus by some of us
who are doing this is that when

886
01:12:45.399 --> 01:12:50.159
we detonated the first atomic bombs,
we attracted an awful lot of attention,

887
01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:57.119
and hence that's why there's such a
spike of ufosa. You know what's interesting,

888
01:12:57.600 --> 01:12:59.359
And I know you must be running
out of time here, but I

889
01:12:59.359 --> 01:13:02.000
have to give you one tidbit.
There was a guy who's an old a

890
01:13:02.119 --> 01:13:09.479
nightcap guy Boucher. Boucher was his
name. He was an actor, Okay,

891
01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:13.800
he wrote a paperback in the mid
sixties. He was an actor and

892
01:13:13.840 --> 01:13:16.680
he was on tour professional actor,
and whenever he was on tour someplace,

893
01:13:16.720 --> 01:13:21.760
he would spend his afternoons in the
library since they performed at night, and

894
01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:29.239
he was researching in their morgues news
clippings of UFO sightings, particularly back around

895
01:13:29.399 --> 01:13:32.760
the time of the Roswell incident.
But most people don't know when you watch

896
01:13:32.800 --> 01:13:36.520
all these television programs say, oh, it all started with Roswell. Well,

897
01:13:36.520 --> 01:13:40.039
we know that those of us around
this stuff. No, it didn't

898
01:13:40.079 --> 01:13:44.800
start with Roswell. But about that
time, for about a month either way

899
01:13:44.920 --> 01:13:49.319
of the Roswell is Then around July
seventh or whatever, there was a massive

900
01:13:49.359 --> 01:13:56.560
amount of UFO sightings in the United
States, reported in thirty eight to forty

901
01:13:56.680 --> 01:14:00.079
states, and the AP was carrying
it, and it was all over the

902
01:14:00.239 --> 01:14:03.079
New York Times, and then of
course they were making fun of it.

903
01:14:03.560 --> 01:14:09.239
Well, what this guy did was
he went around, copied all these articles,

904
01:14:09.680 --> 01:14:12.520
wrote down all the information these articles, went back and wrote a paper

905
01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:20.119
for Nightcap and he had sighting levels
during the middle of June of nineteen forty

906
01:14:20.159 --> 01:14:26.520
seven to about the end of July
nineteen forty seven. That spiked a couple

907
01:14:26.560 --> 01:14:30.680
of weeks before what we'll call the
classic Roswell incident. And most people who

908
01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:35.039
research will tell you they think what
happened really happened. The two crashes actually

909
01:14:35.039 --> 01:14:40.920
happened a couple of weeks into June. Okay, they'll tell you. Most

910
01:14:40.960 --> 01:14:45.840
the experts will tell you this.
So this guy published the paper and it's

911
01:14:45.880 --> 01:14:51.199
available online. I'll send you the
PDF for it. And he's got charts

912
01:14:51.199 --> 01:14:55.920
in there of where all the clusters
were based on where he'd been touring,

913
01:14:56.039 --> 01:15:00.000
was able to look at the newspapers. There was an Air Force Army airs

914
01:15:00.159 --> 01:15:02.680
Core General, and when he came
back to New York City, the press

915
01:15:02.720 --> 01:15:06.640
rounded him and said, hey,
what about all these UFO sightings and Flying

916
01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:10.760
Saucier sightings. He's all, guys, I've been up in I've been up

917
01:15:10.800 --> 01:15:15.079
in Oregon fishing. There was a
huge cluster going on in Oregon the week

918
01:15:15.159 --> 01:15:18.239
before when he was supposed to be
up there fishing. Where he's sitting with

919
01:15:18.399 --> 01:15:26.319
fishing was barely fifty miles from where
all the activity was. So there's a

920
01:15:26.319 --> 01:15:29.439
lot of stuff. I tell people
an article about a week or two ago.

921
01:15:29.439 --> 01:15:31.640
I told people, there's still plenty
of room to go and research and

922
01:15:31.680 --> 01:15:36.359
be a citizen scientist if you want
to dig into it. Yeah, I

923
01:15:36.399 --> 01:15:41.479
mean there's so much out there.
And I mean, even though we hear

924
01:15:41.600 --> 01:15:45.399
people interested, not a lot of
people doing the digging. And I know

925
01:15:45.479 --> 01:15:50.199
people finding new documents. I mean, even if you go through the blue

926
01:15:50.199 --> 01:15:56.039
Book, thousands and thousands of files, you might find documents and information that

927
01:15:56.079 --> 01:16:00.600
people really haven't gotten a time to
take a look at before. Yeah,

928
01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:05.560
there's a we have a little problem
in the UFO community called latest sighting itis.

929
01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:10.760
I gotta I've had a number of
podcasts call me and asked me to

930
01:16:10.760 --> 01:16:15.359
be on their show or one of
those krg A shows, and they always

931
01:16:15.359 --> 01:16:17.159
want to know what's the latest and
greatest sighting. I don't know. I'm

932
01:16:17.199 --> 01:16:20.479
a historian. I look at stats, you know. Yeah, which is

933
01:16:20.520 --> 01:16:25.199
fun and it's good that people do
that because I love that sort of thing.

934
01:16:25.239 --> 01:16:28.640
But I always get tied up in
what's the latest and greatest, and

935
01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:31.560
I don't have time to go back
to some of these other pet projects or

936
01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:35.520
stories I want to write about.
So I love seeing these older stories.

937
01:16:36.600 --> 01:16:40.680
Now what I love is some of
the stuff you've been putting up with open

938
01:16:40.720 --> 01:16:45.039
minds. Your open mind site has
been tremendous. I enjoy reading that,

939
01:16:45.119 --> 01:16:47.319
by the way, thank you,
And it's been very, very very helpful

940
01:16:47.319 --> 01:16:49.640
to me. And you said a
couple of cases you've kind of sparked my

941
01:16:49.680 --> 01:16:51.920
interests, and I'd go back and
say, why, what are what else

942
01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:56.159
is going around in that state?
You know? Yeah, I'd go back

943
01:16:56.199 --> 01:16:59.520
and pull my charts up for something. So, like I said, we're

944
01:16:59.520 --> 01:17:03.039
our target right now, Linda and
I hope to publish our reference book late

945
01:17:03.079 --> 01:17:09.159
summer early fall. Great, and
it should be one heck of a paper.

946
01:17:11.039 --> 01:17:13.399
It goes with it. Do you
want it for the Congress? Invite

947
01:17:13.439 --> 01:17:17.880
me? All right? Yeah,
send us the data. Awesome, Yes,

948
01:17:17.960 --> 01:17:23.119
send us a proposal and we'll take
a look at it. And because

949
01:17:23.159 --> 01:17:29.520
we are already getting ready, we're
already going to start we're going to start

950
01:17:29.560 --> 01:17:33.439
registration probably June first, and we're
gonna get out some speakers we've already talked

951
01:17:33.439 --> 01:17:38.079
to. So yeah, we're moving
ahead. I'll send your proposal over the

952
01:17:38.119 --> 01:17:42.119
weekend. Sounds good. So,
and if people want to read your stuff,

953
01:17:42.119 --> 01:17:45.119
they can go to the New York
skys UFO blog, which is at

954
01:17:45.159 --> 01:17:50.760
the Syracuse New Times Syracuse Times dot
com. All right, perfect, Well,

955
01:17:50.800 --> 01:17:55.520
Thank you so much for being on
the show. I hope you're enjoying

956
01:17:55.680 --> 01:17:59.760
I'm sure it's often chilly out there, but I'm sure the weather's getting better.

957
01:18:00.920 --> 01:18:04.000
They told us this morning we might
have from rain and a chance of

958
01:18:04.600 --> 01:18:10.600
snow showers this seek. Oh you're
kidding. Wow, welcome to upstate New

959
01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:15.439
York. We've seen snow on Mother's
Day before, so this doesn't surprise it.

960
01:18:15.119 --> 01:18:17.439
Yeah, we got a funny feeling
that's going to be up in the

961
01:18:17.479 --> 01:18:20.800
higher altitudes a little bit north of
us, by about fifty miles. Well,

962
01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:25.439
that's good. Hopefully you don't run
into any snow. But thank you

963
01:18:25.520 --> 01:18:29.560
so much, and you have a
great weekend. Thank you very much,

964
01:18:29.880 --> 01:18:32.199
have a wonderful week, and we'll
talk to you soon. Thank you so

965
01:18:32.600 --> 01:18:36.520
much to Cheryl for being on the
show. And as we talked about,

966
01:18:36.560 --> 01:18:43.279
you can go to Syracuse New Times
and see her articles. We often post

967
01:18:43.560 --> 01:18:51.239
her articles in the Open Mind UFO
news group on Facebook and in our news

968
01:18:51.319 --> 01:18:57.239
because of course we post headlines on
a daily basis on the website, so

969
01:18:57.279 --> 01:19:00.239
you can read her articles there.
But if you just go Syracuse New Times,

970
01:19:00.279 --> 01:19:04.000
like I said, her last article
was on the front page, so

971
01:19:04.039 --> 01:19:08.319
it sounds like every Friday there on
the front page, so you could read

972
01:19:08.319 --> 01:19:14.159
her articles about sightings in the New
York area, but historical cases and other

973
01:19:14.239 --> 01:19:17.720
things that she talks about there.
So and of course, as you heard,

974
01:19:18.039 --> 01:19:21.840
she's got a lot to share.
So thank you so much to Cheryl,

975
01:19:21.960 --> 01:19:29.359
and be sure to check out her
stories. Also, you could check

976
01:19:29.399 --> 01:19:35.720
out our stories, the news stories
that we talked about in our weekly YouTube

977
01:19:35.920 --> 01:19:43.760
video program, and of course other
podcasts at Openminds dot tv. You'll also

978
01:19:43.800 --> 01:19:46.960
see a link there and more and
more ads for our video portal because we're

979
01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:53.520
really excited. We have tons of
videos up there, and mostly they are

980
01:19:53.920 --> 01:19:59.279
lectures from the UFO Congress. However, we have other exclusive lectures that you're

981
01:19:59.319 --> 01:20:02.399
not going to get to see anywhere
else by people you will not see anywhere

982
01:20:02.439 --> 01:20:11.079
else, not just Bob Lazare and
Jacques Ballet, but we have a Travis

983
01:20:11.159 --> 01:20:15.239
Walton and a couple of panels that
were related to the Travis Walton case,

984
01:20:15.279 --> 01:20:19.560
where of course he's a guy who
has probably one of the most credible cases

985
01:20:19.600 --> 01:20:25.960
of UFO siding, let alone anything
else but that his sighting. There were

986
01:20:26.039 --> 01:20:30.439
several people that saw this thing with
him and you know, once they saw

987
01:20:30.479 --> 01:20:39.319
this UFO Travis was like beamed by
something and then he disappeared and the guys

988
01:20:39.399 --> 01:20:44.840
called the police once he disappeared,
and the police officer that they spoke to.

989
01:20:45.159 --> 01:20:50.640
Karen, my lovely girlfriend, was
able to find that police officer and

990
01:20:50.720 --> 01:20:55.960
get him to come to Travis's last
conference and what he said is fast.

991
01:20:56.159 --> 01:21:00.800
He's a fun, incredible guy.
But that video you could buy the DVDs

992
01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:04.000
at open mindset TV, but it's
also on our streaming video page. If

993
01:21:04.000 --> 01:21:06.920
it's not yet, I think it
will be soon. We're getting more and

994
01:21:06.920 --> 01:21:12.000
more videos up literally on a daily
basis, but we've got tons, dozens

995
01:21:12.000 --> 01:21:15.600
and dozens up there. But anyway, that's a video to look forward to

996
01:21:15.720 --> 01:21:19.399
if it's not up there, because
if you buy the monthly subscription, which

997
01:21:19.439 --> 01:21:24.479
is only a few dollars, you
have access to all of these videos.

998
01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:29.359
We actually have other lectures too from
other conferences where that are just rare,

999
01:21:29.399 --> 01:21:34.199
one off. So for instance,
these include like the Chilean general who runs

1000
01:21:34.199 --> 01:21:41.399
a UFO group, people with the
UFO group in France, so you know,

1001
01:21:41.479 --> 01:21:45.399
and these are lectures that you're not
going to get anywhere else. And

1002
01:21:45.439 --> 01:21:47.800
of course it's hard to get these
people from other countries. So yeah,

1003
01:21:47.840 --> 01:21:51.119
a lot of great stuff at our
video portal. It's the latest thing that

1004
01:21:51.159 --> 01:21:56.800
we're working on to get updated.
We always get requests for our videos to

1005
01:21:56.840 --> 01:22:00.880
be streamed, and so that's what
we're doing. We're streaming these videos.

1006
01:22:00.920 --> 01:22:03.319
So really excited to bring all this
to you. Just for a few bucks

1007
01:22:03.399 --> 01:22:09.359
a month, and it's recurring,
so you subscribe and you just have access

1008
01:22:09.359 --> 01:22:14.600
to all these great videos. So
check that out at openminds dot tv.

1009
01:22:15.800 --> 01:22:19.239
Otherwise, also join the email newsletter. I'm going to be sending one of

1010
01:22:19.239 --> 01:22:24.279
those out this week. I keep
reminding you guys of it. Not that

1011
01:22:24.319 --> 01:22:26.960
we make well, we don't make
money on a lot of stuff that we

1012
01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:30.199
do. All of our news and
everything is free for everybody. But the

1013
01:22:30.279 --> 01:22:34.520
email newsletter is a great way to
keep updated on everything that we're doing.

1014
01:22:34.680 --> 01:22:40.920
So every two weeks we send this
out and it just gives you a notice

1015
01:22:40.920 --> 01:22:44.279
of what we're up to, so
you know you don't miss anything like some

1016
01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:47.960
of the cool UFO photo videos that
we're posting from our archives on a weekly

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01:22:48.000 --> 01:22:53.680
basis and stuff like that. We
send that out usually on Fridays, every

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01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:57.680
other Friday, so on open mindstot
tv. In the upper right hand pick

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01:22:57.800 --> 01:23:00.199
corner, you'll see a place where
you can register for the email newsletter.

1020
01:23:00.479 --> 01:23:06.920
You can also just send an email
to contact at openminds dot tv and ask

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01:23:08.039 --> 01:23:11.199
us to add you and we'll add
you to the newsletter so you can look

1022
01:23:11.239 --> 01:23:15.720
forward to that soon. And like
every Friday, well we try to get

1023
01:23:15.760 --> 01:23:23.199
it up every Friday. If Michael, our creative and amazing video guy,

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01:23:23.279 --> 01:23:26.239
has gone or if I'm on vacation
or something, we don't get one up.

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01:23:26.239 --> 01:23:29.520
But of course we have the open
MINDGFO Report that goes up every Friday,

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01:23:29.560 --> 01:23:31.399
and we had a great one last
Friday, and we'll have one this

1027
01:23:31.479 --> 01:23:38.439
Friday. So we also will have
another podcast next week. So we've got

1028
01:23:38.600 --> 01:23:45.000
more great interviews lined up. And
it sounds like I'll have to get Chris

1029
01:23:45.039 --> 01:23:48.840
Mellan on our show before Martin does. Luckily he's in Russia, so I

1030
01:23:48.840 --> 01:23:55.560
can sneak in. Just gidding,
I think, actually I'm already booked out

1031
01:23:55.680 --> 01:23:58.800
before that, so that little son
of a gun might be able to get

1032
01:23:58.840 --> 01:24:00.800
melon before us. But you know, I think it's great. A lot

1033
01:24:00.840 --> 01:24:04.239
of people even say this that we
don't ask the same question. So it's

1034
01:24:04.279 --> 01:24:09.479
more like, you know, you
get two interviews with different information if we

1035
01:24:09.520 --> 01:24:15.119
do have the same people. But
anyway, thank you all so much for

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01:24:15.239 --> 01:24:18.479
joining us. Thank you to Caleb
Hanks for creating the Open and the Close

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01:24:18.640 --> 01:24:24.520
music. And it's wonderful to have
you guys joining us every week and we

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01:24:24.560 --> 01:25:24.199
will talk to you next week.
Audios, mood tuttos your emotionless so the glass tes