1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:09,640 Three The Thinking Atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol, an 2 00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:14,720 idea. The population of atheist this country is going through the rule, rejecting 3 00:00:14,839 --> 00:00:19,920 faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I tell the truth, 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,000 it's because I tell the truth, not because I put my hand on a 5 00:00:24,039 --> 00:00:29,359 book and made a wish and working together for a more rational world. Take 6 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:33,280 the risk of thinking feels much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom 7 00:00:33,439 --> 00:00:40,320 will come to you that way. Assume nothing, question everything, and start 8 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:57,439 thinking. This is The Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Said andrews Oh. I've 9 00:00:57,479 --> 00:01:02,600 been a bad example. I've been a bad boy. I'm a fugitive from 10 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:11,280 justice. I'm lawless. Here's the story. I was coming back from a 11 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,840 couple of tour stops in Texas. I'd spoken in Dallas, Texas. Then 12 00:01:15,879 --> 00:01:21,879 I went down to Houston and left on Sunday around one o'clock PM. From 13 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,200 Houston Oasis, I was just going to drive all the way home, and 14 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:30,040 I am not making this up. I'm not kidding. I was a great 15 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:34,239 driver. I drove like two miles an hour over the speed limit all the 16 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:40,239 way home, like nine hours. I obeyed the law. Okay, and 17 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,680 one of the reasons is, and I got to admit this. A few 18 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:47,799 weeks ago, I got pulled over for going a little bit fast and I 19 00:01:47,879 --> 00:01:51,760 was given a warning. Now, I haven't had a speeding ticket in decades. 20 00:01:52,439 --> 00:01:57,159 My driving record is immaculate. Okay, it's perfect, and so I 21 00:01:57,159 --> 00:02:01,439 didn't want to screw that up. So I'm driving the limit, got my 22 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:07,240 audio book in, I'm just cruising right along, and eight hours into my 23 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:14,599 nine hour drive, I end up going through this little one horse town called 24 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:21,680 Henrietta in Oklahoma. Henrietta, the highway goes through and there's a stoplight, 25 00:02:21,759 --> 00:02:23,960 and then you go through this small section of highway or whatever. And I'm 26 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:29,560 doing sixty five. Stop at the stop light, and then I cruise back 27 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:34,080 up to sixty five. Okay, no harm, no foul. But I 28 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:39,479 was listening to my audio book and apparent light didn't see these little signs and 29 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:46,759 they didn't say sixty five for no reason on a stretch of highway near nothing, 30 00:02:46,879 --> 00:02:53,039 I mean, there's nothing got highway. It said forty five. And 31 00:02:53,159 --> 00:02:58,960 lo and behold in my rear view there are the police lights. Shit right, 32 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:04,719 shit, nine o'clock at night. I'm tired, I'm cranky, I 33 00:03:04,759 --> 00:03:09,520 want to get home. I pull over and this small town police officer, 34 00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:14,759 you know, this Beauford Tea pusser. By the way, that's a seventies 35 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:19,360 reference. Bauford Tea Pusser was a real police officer. It's a real shaff. 36 00:03:20,319 --> 00:03:23,240 Beauford Tea Pusser pulls me over and he walks up to the window and 37 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:29,159 he's like, license and insurance please, And I was like, oh my 38 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:34,199 god, I don't even know what the speed limit had been, right, 39 00:03:34,759 --> 00:03:37,759 I thought it was sixty five and I'd gone just a little bit over. 40 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:43,759 The word speed trap going off in my mind. But I also know better 41 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,520 than to try to weasel my way out of whatever's about to happen. Right, 42 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:51,199 cops, they've heard every story, every excuse in the book. I'm 43 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,599 late for work, my wife is pregnant, someone says, in a crisis, 44 00:03:54,639 --> 00:03:58,360 blah blah blah. I mean, why bother right? I mean, 45 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,479 the best thing to do is just and over your stuff, own it, 46 00:04:00,919 --> 00:04:05,360 and hopefully you'll get some grace. So he takes my stuff and he goes 47 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,240 back, and I can tell I'm getting a ticket because of the length of 48 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,960 time it takes him to come back to the car finally comes back and he 49 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:21,600 says, you realize you were going sixty seven and a forty five. Now 50 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:27,040 I'm doing the math on that. I think over twenty miles an hour over 51 00:04:27,079 --> 00:04:30,160 the speed limit isn't just speeding. I think I think they can call that 52 00:04:30,319 --> 00:04:36,519 reckless driving. It's like I bumped her down to fifty five and a forty 53 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:42,560 five. Best I can do for you. Here's your ticket, and I'm 54 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,680 just looking at this thing. Thanks officer. Slow down out there now tonight, 55 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:53,040 yes sir, yes, sir, and then I drive away. So 56 00:04:53,240 --> 00:05:00,879 for one quarter mile stretch in a nine hour journey, I a speed sign 57 00:05:01,439 --> 00:05:06,079 and got caught. And now I have a ticket, and I'm just pissed. 58 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,600 And the writing on the ticket is like a carbon copy. I can't 59 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,319 read anything. I can't read what is there a fine? Is there an 60 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:20,480 amount? And then there's a court date, which I thought said this. 61 00:05:21,639 --> 00:05:28,800 Apparently it did not. So I had mailed my fine one hundred and forty 62 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,439 nine dollars to the town of Henrietta. And you are welcome, okay, 63 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:38,040 Henrietta. You just enjoy that money. You go buy everybody some donuts and 64 00:05:38,079 --> 00:05:42,040 do whatever you're going to do with this speed trap revenue that I have sent 65 00:05:42,079 --> 00:05:46,040 your way. Okay, But the next day I receive in the mail a 66 00:05:46,199 --> 00:05:53,959 letter that says you have missed your court date. You failed to appear before 67 00:05:54,160 --> 00:06:03,720 the judge. Holy shit, I'm now in content to court. What it's 68 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:09,240 just been a few days. I'm lawless. I'm now a fugitive from justice. 69 00:06:09,319 --> 00:06:12,279 The men in dark sunglasses going to show up at my door and they're 70 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,399 gonna hold me away, like the town of Henriette is going to send somebody 71 00:06:15,439 --> 00:06:18,360 an hour into Tulsa, Oklahoma to come get me. But you know, 72 00:06:18,439 --> 00:06:23,000 curse, your mind goes to places like what does this look like on my 73 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,439 record? What are the consequences? I call the court clerk and I'm like, 74 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,759 look, you should have a check with my name on it. I 75 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:36,199 just don't want the ca stop to show up and do something to me, 76 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:41,000 and I don't want anything bad on my record. And she laughed and she's 77 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,720 like, you're fine, honey. I love it when small town people call 78 00:06:43,759 --> 00:06:46,279 you honey. It's like going into a to a little restaurant, you know, 79 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,720 a little truck stop restaurant. They call you, hey, darling, 80 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,839 can I get you some pancakes. There's just something so endearing about that. 81 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,959 I just love it. So she's like, don't worry about it, honey, 82 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,360 you know, give me the ticket number. I said, don't worry 83 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,920 about not being able to read the writing. That always happens these police officers. 84 00:07:02,959 --> 00:07:05,879 Their writings just terrible. Don't you sweat it? Oh no, look, 85 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,439 you've got a zero balance. We got your money, and so that 86 00:07:10,519 --> 00:07:14,399 letter goes out automatically. And don't you just throw that in the trash, 87 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,680 dear, don't you worry about it. You are just fine. In fact, 88 00:07:17,199 --> 00:07:21,759 we don't report our tickets to the state, so it won't go on 89 00:07:21,879 --> 00:07:26,839 your record. Okay. And I've have two minds on this. One is 90 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,680 my record remains clean. The second thought is, now I know this is 91 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:39,079 a speed trap, right because it's not about the law. It's not about 92 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,399 trying to make me a better driver and keep me in the straight and narrow 93 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,879 under the limit. No, this is about one hundred and forty nine dollars, 94 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,040 that's what that's about. So anyway, I just I'm walking around all 95 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:55,199 the time telling people I'm lawless, fugitive from justice. You know, I 96 00:07:55,319 --> 00:08:00,480 can't be governed, I can't be contained. That's been the story I've been 97 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:07,000 telling lately. Just an interesting and enjoyable anecdote to start the conversation today. 98 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:13,439 What else is going on? Oh, here's another anecdote. It is. 99 00:08:15,399 --> 00:08:18,399 It's an example of how I'm not always the man I wish I could be. 100 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,600 And I'm going to throw myself at your feet. I'm gonna throw myself 101 00:08:22,639 --> 00:08:26,639 at your mercy and the hopes that you will give me the grace and mercy 102 00:08:26,759 --> 00:08:30,480 that the Henry at a police officer did not. Because I screwed up. 103 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,679 We went to go see Oppenheimer at the Imax. I'm not going to give 104 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,440 you any spoilers here at all, so you're safe. Oppenheimer. The new 105 00:08:37,519 --> 00:08:45,600 Christopher Nolan film starring Silly and Murphy is brilliant. It is so thick and 106 00:08:45,879 --> 00:08:50,279 smart and challenging and amazing. I've never seen anything like it. Different than 107 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:52,440 what I expected. I thought it was going to be more of a kind 108 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,600 of a special effects showcase about bombs, you know, knowing Christopher Nolan, 109 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,919 but it was really more a political thriller with so many gears in the machine, 110 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,759 so many moving parts. I'm gonna have to see it again, maybe 111 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:11,159 twice. More just to catch everything that was happening. But it was a 112 00:09:11,159 --> 00:09:13,840 big deal. So there are four of us, took my family, and 113 00:09:13,919 --> 00:09:16,960 after the tickets, Imax tickets, and popcorn, we're talking over one hundred 114 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,440 dollars, so it's kind of a big deal. And we're in this packed 115 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:28,279 matinee theater and the trailers are playing, and I noticed the couple next to 116 00:09:28,279 --> 00:09:33,960 me, the man and a woman, and they're both pulling their phones out 117 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:39,639 of their pockets and talking to each other. Now, I let this slide 118 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:46,080 during the trailers, even though you know how I feel about people talking and 119 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,240 texting in a theater. You've heard my rant about social contracts and how the 120 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,600 sign says don't be discourdious, don't talk or text, and people do it 121 00:09:54,639 --> 00:10:00,279 anyway. So I was already ramped up. The movie begins. It's a 122 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:05,480 critical first ten minutes, as all of the pieces start coming into place. 123 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:11,519 You really got to pay attention in a Christopher Nolan film. And during that 124 00:10:11,639 --> 00:10:16,120 first ten minutes, to my right, this man and this woman continue to 125 00:10:16,279 --> 00:10:22,159 yank their cell phones out of their pockets and start talking to each other so 126 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,679 loud that I notice even Natalie is distracted. She's looking over at them. 127 00:10:26,799 --> 00:10:30,840 I'm looking over at them, And before I realized I was doing it, 128 00:10:31,279 --> 00:10:37,440 I leaned over and I said, hey, hey, stop talking. And 129 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,320 this man, kind of a stocky bearded guy, looked at me and he 130 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,159 said, why did't you mind your own business and shut the fuck off? 131 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:56,000 And I said, why don't you shut the fuck up? Oh my god, 132 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:00,000 I just I just said it. Before I realized, I said, 133 00:11:00,159 --> 00:11:03,840 what, you shut the fuck up? And immediately Natalie is like, you 134 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,879 know, she's sort of pushing me back, and his wife's pushing It's not 135 00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:09,519 like we were going to go to blows, but we were definitely having words 136 00:11:09,639 --> 00:11:13,759 right there in the middle of a dark theater. It was so I mean, 137 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:20,559 I have confronted people before, but this is the antithesis of the kind 138 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,799 of behavior that I have been trying to exemplify in my life, which is 139 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:30,159 being the adult in the room right being a de escalator. And I was 140 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,080 guilty of all the things I've been condemning. And I sat there and I'm 141 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,200 sure both of us were just ramped up. I'm sure he was over there 142 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,200 steaming and I was over here steaming. And so the movie goes on for 143 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,519 another half hour, Natalie, I'm sure wanted to crawl into her chair. 144 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,919 I'd embarrassed her and made her weird. And then he gets up to go 145 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:54,159 to the bathroom. Now I found out later that Natalie at this moment was 146 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,279 concerned he was going to the parking lot to his car to get a gun 147 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:03,480 and come back and kill me. I didn't know that at the time, 148 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,279 but if he got up and he went out to the bathroom, I got 149 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:13,279 up and I followed him out, and I could see him. He was 150 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:18,120 walking down toward the men's restroom and I was behind him, and I walked 151 00:12:18,159 --> 00:12:22,000 into the restroom and there he is, and he's standing against the wall at 152 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,240 the urinal and I was over near the sink, and I let him see 153 00:12:26,279 --> 00:12:31,440 me. And the first thing I said was, Man, I'm so sorry 154 00:12:31,759 --> 00:12:35,600 for blowing up at you in the theater. So I was just I screwed 155 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,799 up. And he smiled and he said, oh, don't worry about it, 156 00:12:39,879 --> 00:12:41,360 you know, it's it's no big deal. It's and I said no, 157 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,399 and then he said, well, the thing is, my daughter was 158 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,639 in a car wreck. And so we were getting text and we were trying 159 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:54,159 to figure out if you know what was going on, and I said, 160 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,759 you know, I'm sorry to hear that, but honestly, there's no excuse 161 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,480 no matter what you were talking about. I'm really sorry for my behavior. 162 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,279 I totally screwed up. And he's like, well, I'm sorry too, 163 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,159 you know, I I overreacted. And then there was a pause and he 164 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:16,440 looked at me and he goes, you know, we're guys, me big 165 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:22,200 man, get a thing. And so I sort of sagued over and I'm 166 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,879 standing at the wall in another few moments passed and I said, you know, 167 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:33,120 I apologized at the urinal. This is awkward, and we both busted 168 00:13:33,159 --> 00:13:37,720 out laughing again. And so we ended up back out in the lobby and 169 00:13:37,799 --> 00:13:43,279 we walked into the theater. He held the door for me and I both 170 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,919 we both went back to our chairs, and Natalie just looked at me like, 171 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,639 what the hell just happened? And I whispered in her ear we are 172 00:13:52,759 --> 00:14:00,080 best friends now, and she smiled, and everybody relaxed and we enjoyed the 173 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,320 rest of the movie. But I I was driving home, I really felt 174 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:09,519 a sense of shame. What's that about? You know, yes, they 175 00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:13,240 should have gone to the lobby, okay, but I didn't know what the 176 00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:16,360 context was. You know, they were going through a crisis. They probably 177 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,840 weren't thinking about anybody else. They were thinking about their kid who could have 178 00:14:18,879 --> 00:14:22,879 been injured in a car wreck. There was something going on with their family. 179 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,200 And my first thought was, you are inconveniencing me. I am watching 180 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:31,039 the movie. And then I just went from zero to crazy. I just 181 00:14:31,159 --> 00:14:37,639 blew it. I just became what I despise. And so as we were 182 00:14:37,759 --> 00:14:41,200 driving home, we were kind of laughing about it. But I told Natalie, 183 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,000 I'm like, you know, I know I was wrong, and I'm 184 00:14:43,039 --> 00:14:48,519 sorry I embarrassed you, and and you know, I hope you'll allow it. 185 00:14:48,559 --> 00:14:50,279 I can kind of grow through failure here and that I'll do better. 186 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,679 I'm gonna make a commitment to try to just be better next time. And 187 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:56,919 she was laughing, and I said, you know, I can be an 188 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,039 asshole, but I'm also a good man, and she's like, you are 189 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,720 a good man. It's okay, It's okay, yea. So it was 190 00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:09,840 a lot over a little, but it's still something I kind of blush about. 191 00:15:09,919 --> 00:15:13,480 What's wrong with me? Why did I go there? Why did it 192 00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:16,120 bother me so much? Why did I turn on this guy so quickly. 193 00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:20,840 I've been thinking about that kind of thing. No, I didn't know him. 194 00:15:20,879 --> 00:15:22,879 He was the stranger, he was the other. And then I'm watching 195 00:15:22,879 --> 00:15:28,759 the film Oppenheimer, which is rooted in the Second World War, And on 196 00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:35,799 the larger philosophical note, I'm thinking about the human desire and tendency, especially 197 00:15:35,879 --> 00:15:39,600 by men, to want to dominate and take over the world. Right, 198 00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:48,879 I mean, Hitler wanted world domination. Japan's emperor Hirohito wanted world domination at 199 00:15:48,919 --> 00:15:52,080 that time. Right, these were people who were willing to blow up the 200 00:15:52,080 --> 00:16:00,200 world, to consolidate power, to procure resources, and dominate everybody and everything. 201 00:16:00,799 --> 00:16:06,279 And I keep thinking about who drew the border lines. We see the 202 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:11,159 nationalist here in the United States, we're better than everybody else, We're superior 203 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,159 to everybody else. And once you cross this line, which was drawn here 204 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,679 at this river or at this point, you know this geographical location, once 205 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:25,559 you take a step over that, now you are in inferior territory with inferior 206 00:16:25,639 --> 00:16:30,279 people. They matter less. Well. Who drew the line, like some 207 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:36,039 human beings, some subjective person drew that line, Who said the line can't 208 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:41,960 be moved or changed or expanded or erased. Oh, there he goes, 209 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,679 there he goes. He's going all John Lennon on us. You know, 210 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:56,559 imagine a world, imagine Yeah, Okay, somebody somewhere took a sharpie and 211 00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:00,200 said, this land is my land? Why is the gospel? Why is 212 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,200 that sacred? I just don't get it, this tribal thing. I mean, 213 00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:08,640 I get the benefit of tribes. I think I'm not opposed to having 214 00:17:08,759 --> 00:17:15,279 nations, but this idea that the lines are sacrosanct and that makes us superior 215 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,039 and everybody else inferior. And then the dominionists want to go and they want 216 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:22,880 to not just own what we have here and sign the line. They want 217 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,839 to go and own everything outside the line. They want everything in this block 218 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:33,319 and that group, and this continent whatever. We are a planet that's been 219 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,799 marked up on a map by somebody somewhere, and we never stopped a question. 220 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:42,200 Who drew the line, and why would it make us more important than 221 00:17:42,279 --> 00:17:48,440 somebody else. Now I was a Christian nationalist. I felt that we are 222 00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:52,720 superior more than anybody else. God has picked us right, and we are 223 00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:56,240 to go out and convert the world and make everybody like us. But when 224 00:17:56,279 --> 00:17:59,079 I came out of the faith. It was more like, we are all 225 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,400 brothers and sisters, We are all the human condition. I love my country, 226 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,920 but it doesn't mean I love anybody else less. Why would it have 227 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,000 to be binary? Why does it have to be a zero sum game? 228 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:15,279 Why can't I advocate for my neighbors on this part of the planet but not 229 00:18:15,519 --> 00:18:21,200 cast out or vilify those who might be my further neighbors outside the fence. 230 00:18:21,519 --> 00:18:25,440 And what if I was to take down the fence and we could all share 231 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,480 the planet together as human brothers and sisters. That's a fantasy of mine. 232 00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:37,319 And watching Oppenheimer and the development of the Adam bomb to try to stop world 233 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,960 domination by dominators and then all the interworking politics and the power grab going on 234 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,160 within the United States just overwhelming. It's just overwhelming, at the very least 235 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:53,279 regarding one of the messages behind Oppenheimer's I'm sick and tired of the dominionists trying 236 00:18:53,319 --> 00:19:00,440 to stomp out the rest of us. Let's take some call, but first 237 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:11,680 short break, be right back. Glad you're here, Thanks for listening, 238 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:17,480 Thanks for your supports. Commercial free show. You get two days early if 239 00:19:17,519 --> 00:19:26,119 you become a patron Patreon dot com slash Seth Andrews to the switchboard. We 240 00:19:26,279 --> 00:19:33,319 go, Alex, are you there? I am what is on your mind? 241 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:40,759 Rebellion and reacting to pretty much what you just said. I've reached the 242 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:48,039 point where not acting is causing harm. And I was living in Rochester Hills 243 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:53,480 in a trailer park, Rochester Hills, Michigan, and my trailer was on 244 00:19:53,519 --> 00:19:59,359 a corner with the biggest bus stop in the entire park, basically, and 245 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,799 I was seeing kids from elementary all the way to high school getting on and 246 00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:07,000 off the bus every day. So I started sitting in my window and just 247 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:11,319 yelling out the window. God and Jesus are made up, just like Santa 248 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,519 and the Easter Money. I was telling them, hey, kids, mom 249 00:20:14,559 --> 00:20:18,240 and dad have to hate you. Jesus commands it in order for them to 250 00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:22,480 follow him. I was putting all kinds of Bible verses out there for kids. 251 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,039 I was sending them over to the Atheist Experience, to your Channel, 252 00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:30,319 to a lot of channels. Hugo and Jake back when they were doing the 253 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:36,559 Bible Reloaded, it was actually super successful. I had a lot of kids 254 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,559 come back privately and talk to me and ask questions and get sources. I 255 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,039 know for a fact I turned quite a few kids atheists. Some of the 256 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,920 parents moved with their kids out of the park. Some parents showed up at 257 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,599 my house and we're circling the signs that I had in my yard, taking 258 00:20:52,599 --> 00:20:57,759 pictures and all kinds of craziness. But the words spread and nobody ever got 259 00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:04,200 physical with me, and the kids were sharing the information as well. And 260 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,559 at the time I was threatened with eviction from the park, I had all 261 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:15,039 kinds of just backlash. Police were called. It was pretty nuts. I've 262 00:21:15,079 --> 00:21:21,160 recently moved to Highland, Michigan, into a very Trump supporting park. My 263 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:26,240 neighbor has a Trump flag hanging on his porch. So I'm telling you this 264 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,480 to show you that we are making progress in the atheist community. We are 265 00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:37,720 waking people up. It's becoming normalized. I went to the office to ask 266 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,359 for permission to put signs all over my house with the same Bible verses I 267 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:47,400 used in Rochester Hills, and they said absolutely, you can do that. 268 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,359 Years ago in the other park, I was not allowed to do that and 269 00:21:52,599 --> 00:21:57,519 was threatened by the park itself. So it's progress that I'm being allowed to 270 00:21:57,559 --> 00:22:02,799 have the same freedom my neighbor had, and I'm going to take full advantage 271 00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:07,119 of it. I plan to put the signs up this weekend. And there's 272 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,000 a lot of kids, especially young girls, living directly on both sides of 273 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:17,200 me. So I've already given a heads up to the women in those houses 274 00:22:17,519 --> 00:22:22,279 that I'm going to war against the men. Tell them to keep their hands 275 00:22:22,319 --> 00:22:27,359 off our bodies. And I'm going to post all the pro abortion verses and 276 00:22:27,559 --> 00:22:33,480 the verse where Jesus commands hatred of one's own children, the verse where Jesus 277 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,680 says He's going to make you eat your own sons and daughters, you know, 278 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,680 tell the truth about Jesus, that their mom and dad want them to 279 00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:45,440 commit their lives too. And it's stuff that's easy to look up in the 280 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,680 Bible. Well, I've got what you think. I've got no problem with 281 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:56,799 presenting in a private forum, even your own property, your concerns and condemnations 282 00:22:56,839 --> 00:23:02,640 of the religion. But if we were to reverse the streams, and if 283 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,240 you were boarding a bus or your kids were getting on a bus, and 284 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:11,640 somebody was nearby screaming out Bible versus and saying you're going to hell, well 285 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,559 they're doing that here. They allow that here they allow the churches, even 286 00:23:15,599 --> 00:23:18,759 one of them as an IFB church, they allowed them to come in here 287 00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:23,839 and propagate their crap. That's what gave me the idea was to counter the 288 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:30,039 lies that the churches are telling and show the truth about what the Bible really 289 00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:33,079 says. I would never be one to tell you to not do something that 290 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:41,200 is bringing results. I myself blanche a little bit at the idea of yelling 291 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,279 this stuff out at a bus stop, in a public square at children. 292 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,400 These are conversations that need to be had. I worry a little bit about 293 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:55,880 the process and the efficacy overall of saying the Old Testament says God wants people 294 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,200 to eat babies. The verse may be in there. Oh, that's in 295 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,799 Revelation. I know it. Actually it's the Old Testament too, I believe. 296 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,559 Yeah, but it's you know, it is interesting, and I think 297 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,960 on your own term, certainly on your own property, within the boundaries of 298 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,759 your own life, being able to express your lack of faith in any sort 299 00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:18,960 of you know, magical other out there, and to condemn the atrocities and 300 00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:23,000 scripture. I think those are valid and you have every right to do that. 301 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,119 It's been beautiful. I mean, I really thought I was going to 302 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:32,160 get shot at some point, but I haven't. And I'm getting quite a 303 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,559 bit of support from the women, which surprises me. It's waking them up 304 00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:40,279 too, So just no, we are helping out there. We're doing what 305 00:24:40,319 --> 00:24:44,960 we can. I may be weird, but if I wasn't getting good results, 306 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,440 I wouldn't keep doing it. So thank you for everything you do. 307 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:55,240 I know you don't encourage necessarily some of the stuff that I do. You 308 00:24:55,319 --> 00:24:59,599 and I may stand apart on the process, but I am interested in your 309 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,319 story and if you are in fact getting results, and perhaps you can update 310 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,839 us on this six months down the way, Okay, I definitely will. 311 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,279 All right, hanging there, Alex, appreciate you. What are your thoughts. 312 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,839 You're at a bus stop. You know there are a lot of religious 313 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,799 kids who are getting on the bus, and you say, read your Old 314 00:25:19,839 --> 00:25:26,839 Testament. The Bible says God will burn you, or gay should be executed, 315 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,119 or your parents in the Book of Matthew are required to hate their children 316 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,920 for the sake of Christ if it comes down to that, because it's all 317 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:40,079 the divine popularity contest, open your eyes, read your Bible, so if 318 00:25:40,079 --> 00:25:42,240 someone was shouting that over a parking lot, would that be effective to you? 319 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,359 If it's effective to some, why is it effective? What are the 320 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,240 ratios and percentages? I think this call brings about a lot of questions. 321 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,319 It's not my thing, It's not what I would do, but I am 322 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:03,759 interested in Alex's story and I appreciate her sharing it. Seven zero three, 323 00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:07,119 who's this Laura? Laura? Thanks for calling. What's on your mind? 324 00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:11,799 Well? First of all, oh, mister Andrews. I have been a 325 00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:15,240 fan of your radio show since I was about sixteen, so it's an honor. 326 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,079 Thank you, Thank you, and please call me Seth. Mister Andrews 327 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:23,640 just kills a part of my heart because it makes me sound like Methuselah. 328 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,200 But you're very kind, you're very good. Go ahead. What do you 329 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:32,200 want to talk about, mister Seth? Go ahead? I just wanted to 330 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,559 talk about the issue of borders that you mentioned. I have to politely say 331 00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:41,599 that I disagree. I feel that stuff like that exists for a good reason, 332 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:47,480 in both safety wise and in terms of giving people a sense of identity 333 00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:51,759 who otherwise might not feel like they really have one. I also have to 334 00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:55,920 say in terms of like national identity. And I know that this is a 335 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,960 controversial view coming from an atheist, but I'm that actually a fan of the 336 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:06,519 two states system. And I'm also well, first of all, I'm a 337 00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:11,480 big advocate for my fellow disabled community, and I feel that the disabled community 338 00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:15,839 kind of feels like here in the US, they don't really see us. 339 00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:22,279 I feel that we need an Israel of sorts. It's like this, you 340 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,319 know how, at least on paper, Israel is seen as the home of 341 00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:30,359 the Jewish community. The reservations are seen as something like that for the Native 342 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,759 Americans. At least on paper, it's more complicated. But I wonder what 343 00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:41,720 it would be like if the disabled community had the option of going somewhere where 344 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:47,240 it's our bodies, ourselves, our laws, ourselves. People without disabilities could 345 00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:52,519 obviously live there, but I wonder what it would be like if we had 346 00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:56,559 the option of being able to say I'm not an American anymore. I live 347 00:27:56,599 --> 00:28:03,319 in whatever country would be specifically founded for people with disabilities. Do you feel 348 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,680 like that would cheat the larger, more healthy I would say, more healthy 349 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,079 attitude that we are all the human condition. I mean, wouldn't it further 350 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:17,440 marginalized disabled people to lock them away. I mean many people would consider that 351 00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:18,640 to be, for lack of a better way of saying it, kind of 352 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,839 an island of misfit toys. They would then be able to brush them off, 353 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:27,519 lock them away. They would be othered. Isn't the goal to help 354 00:28:27,559 --> 00:28:32,720 those with disabilities actually be a parts, an equal part of life with the 355 00:28:32,759 --> 00:28:37,160 rest of us. Wouldn't that be a more worthy goal than segregation? However, 356 00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:41,279 I would also consider it a comfort to know that there would be an 357 00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:47,519 option where it's people that actually get us because they are us and we don't 358 00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:53,720 have that well, I myself would never try to nullify the perspective of someone 359 00:28:53,759 --> 00:28:59,400 who lives with a disability every single day. I think it's yeah, I 360 00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:03,319 called the end. I'm autistic. I can't really feel what you have felt. 361 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,839 I can't see the world through your eyes. And I understand also the 362 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,759 healthy benefit of tribes, you know, the community of people who suffer with 363 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:18,319 cerebral palsy and autism who can get each other, perhaps share a space, 364 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,240 support each other. You can pursue common goals to raise awareness, even money 365 00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:27,200 for research to help cure or at least treat some issues. I totally understand 366 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:33,720 the benefit the pro social and productive aspects of tribes. I myself struggle a 367 00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:38,799 little bit with the idea of people sort of coordinate themselves off away from the 368 00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:44,000 rest of us, because I worry that a greater effect beyond the community you 369 00:29:44,079 --> 00:29:48,519 might feel is that you would be further cast off and not given the opportunities 370 00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:52,960 that we seek for everybody and to share the world equally. I don't know, 371 00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:57,440 it's an interesting idea that I've never heard said in that way before. 372 00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:00,240 Can you kind of let me chew on that for a while and everybody in 373 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,519 the in the listening audience and have some discussion about it. Also, I 374 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,960 kind of feel that in terms of disability advocacy, yeah, we have plenty 375 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,400 of equivalence to Susan B. Anthony and Marl Luther King, But where our 376 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:22,720 our equivalence to Emmeline Pankhurst and Malcolm X. Sometimes the non disabled majority needs 377 00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:26,200 to fear us. I understand why you wouldn't want a blind person with a 378 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,480 gun, But wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, 379 00:30:29,519 --> 00:30:33,559 wait on physically do that to fear you? No? No, no answer. 380 00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:37,039 Help me understand why would you want someone to fear you? Give me 381 00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:41,599 a context for that, because sometimes that's the only way that you can get 382 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:48,720 people's attention. Sometimes you need muscle behind the revolution. And you would support 383 00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:55,119 in that context the use of what force and or violence against able lists, 384 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:02,680 so long as as it was within a context of not hurting innocent people and 385 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,759 only against those who are like intentionally trying to hurt us. Who would make 386 00:31:07,799 --> 00:31:11,799 that determination? Warming of the bastield? But how would you make the determination? 387 00:31:11,839 --> 00:31:15,279 Where would the line be drawn? I'm going to commit violence against this 388 00:31:15,319 --> 00:31:18,839 person because they are an agent of harm. Who would set the line? 389 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,440 Who would determine what harm is specifically? And how would you mean? I'm 390 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:27,880 not sure, but that's why we need a community to know. So a 391 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:33,839 community would decide a guideline a specific someone says this sentence or tries to submit 392 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,880 or propos or past this law, they would then be an agent of harm 393 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:44,400 against the disabled, and we would then warrant or condone violence against them. 394 00:31:44,519 --> 00:31:48,279 Am I understanding that? Yeah? There are some laws within the US where 395 00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:53,559 it's like the early stages of what ke for ended up being I mean, 396 00:31:53,599 --> 00:31:57,720 you're not killing us outright admitting to it, but they're making it so well, 397 00:31:57,799 --> 00:32:00,559 you might as well say that you want to. You're acting like you 398 00:32:00,599 --> 00:32:05,319 wish we weren't here. Do you see it opening the door to a kind 399 00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:10,319 of reactive anarchy. People subjectively say you've harmed me. Now I'm going to 400 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:15,559 pull out a baseball bat or a gun or run somebody over in a crowd, 401 00:32:16,279 --> 00:32:22,920 justified because I feel subjectively harmed. I'm not trying to marginalize when it 402 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:29,680 works. I'm not an opponent that violence should only be the absolute plan z. 403 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,279 However, sometimes plan z is necessary. Okay, well, I'm not 404 00:32:35,359 --> 00:32:40,599 opposing pushback, even by force, against aggressors against you. I'm just trying 405 00:32:40,599 --> 00:32:45,519 to understand. Does someone qualify aggression as a word spoken. If someone says 406 00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:51,799 a certain word, is violence warranted against them? If someone says it would 407 00:32:51,839 --> 00:32:55,559 be better if we were all dead. If someone says that they do not 408 00:32:55,759 --> 00:33:01,160 view us as equals, no matter how hard we try. If someone says 409 00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:07,119 that they are inherently more human than us because they quote unquote looks apart, 410 00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:15,400 I feel that that is the early stages of genocidal ableism. I myself want 411 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:22,200 to express first and primarily, that I understand the tremendous frustration that the disabled 412 00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:28,000 feel in a world that has purposefully, in many cases been not fashioned for 413 00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:31,519 them. They've been dismissed and discarded. I have real concerns about calls for 414 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:38,000 violence against people who have not been approached violently first. That's a conversation. 415 00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:43,319 I think we're probably gone. We've been approached first. This is self defect. 416 00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:46,920 If someone speaks a word against you, even protected speech, which is 417 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:53,599 hate speech. I worry about living in a world where someone subjectively says I 418 00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:00,119 grew homes where they're letting people start. If somebody I'm not talking about one 419 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:05,119 needs to storm the back field, if someone is starving people to death, 420 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,440 it is different than I have spoken a hateful word, which is sadly but 421 00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:15,760 necessarily protected as free speech. The way to defeat that, I would argue 422 00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:19,800 is not to pull a gun and shoot them in the street and call it 423 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,039 self defense. I worry about that kind of thinking, and I think that's 424 00:34:23,079 --> 00:34:29,920 fair for shooting people for speaking. I feel that we need to be able 425 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:36,920 to defend ourselves against physical, emotional, sexual and mental harm. Okay, 426 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,880 well, when now we're talking about someone who is perpetrating physical harm, which 427 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:45,000 is a different conversation. It's like the punch a Nazi crowd. What they 428 00:34:45,039 --> 00:34:50,880 do is they say that someone who hates I'm sorry, I'm the image in 429 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,880 my head of Sean Spicer, all right, but not that I advocate violence 430 00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,719 out of nowhere. But well, I appreciate your call very much, and 431 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,119 we'll perhaps chat down the way. Okay, it was lovely to be on 432 00:35:04,159 --> 00:35:07,880 the shot, No, thank you. Where I was going with that is, 433 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:14,280 if you run into a white supremacist on the street, someone who doesn't 434 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,800 believe in equality and believes that people of color, etc. Are not of 435 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,960 equal status, even not even human, is the way to defeat that to 436 00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:27,400 sucker punch them in the street. And there's a culture of people I understand 437 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,920 their frustration, who believe that that is how we solve the problem. I 438 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,480 don't think myself. I don't think we sucker punch our way to a better 439 00:35:35,559 --> 00:35:38,519 world. I think it feels good in the second we watch the video of 440 00:35:38,559 --> 00:35:44,000 somebody getting their ass kicked, a neo Nazi gets pummeled with a fist in 441 00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:46,199 the street, We're like, yeah, fuck that guy. I understand the 442 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:51,079 emotional response, the satisfaction in the moment. I just don't think that's how 443 00:35:51,119 --> 00:35:55,199 we fix the world, and I don't think that's an unreasonable concern. These 444 00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:00,400 are difficult conversations, aren't they. There's certainly hot button conversation, but I 445 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,320 think we should be able to talk about them. I've got Matthew, thanks 446 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,840 for calling. What do you want to talk about? I've talked to you 447 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:08,880 a few times. I've always been a huge fan of your work. By 448 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,639 the way, thank you so much. Thank you. I heard you and 449 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,760 Matt Della Hunty recently speaking about the twelve step program. I think you guys 450 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,840 were maybe at a conference. I was curious your faults on the twelve step 451 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,920 concept because I myself am a recovering addict. I am an atheist, and 452 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:30,880 I'm pretty vocal humanist, and I know that we maybe had some disagreements here, 453 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,679 but I think some of it may just be misunderstanding. So I'm really 454 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,519 just curious to plish that out a little bit, if that's okay. My 455 00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:45,079 opposition to Alcoholics Anonymous and the twelve step program isn't that it hasn't worked for 456 00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:49,639 some people. In fact, for that reason, I will tell people who 457 00:36:49,639 --> 00:36:52,920 are recovering addicts that if the program helped you, I would never be the 458 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,400 one to negate that I would never be the one to say you shouldn't have 459 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,519 done it. You know, if it has helped you, then good for 460 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:07,360 you. My challenge with AA is that it wasn't begun from a science based 461 00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:13,920 framework, and it relies heavily on the concept of a higher power. You 462 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:19,360 put your trust or faith, you have an anchor in some other somewhere, 463 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,760 and they're kind of nebulous about what that is. My challenge with that twelve 464 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:29,840 step model is that it sort of robs you of responsibility and it cheats you 465 00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:35,920 of a feeling of real accomplishment when you do the heavy lifting of beating addiction. 466 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,000 You know, it's saying, essentially you don't have it within you lean 467 00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:44,920 on a higher power. I think that's a legitimate concern, don't you It 468 00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:47,079 is. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I will say I think that's a 469 00:37:47,079 --> 00:37:52,320 great takeaway. So I'm not arguing with you. I just I want you 470 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,760 to if you can just maybe hear a little different perspective. So like myself, 471 00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:59,000 my sponsor, like a long line of the people that I'm in the 472 00:37:59,079 --> 00:38:01,800 Narcotics Anonymous program with, we're pretty much all atheists. Like I mean, 473 00:38:02,039 --> 00:38:05,559 there are so many religious people in our community. But like a lot of 474 00:38:05,599 --> 00:38:09,159 us are working towards We have what they call like conference agenda report, and 475 00:38:09,159 --> 00:38:12,599 I won't for you with all the details, but it's where we get together 476 00:38:12,639 --> 00:38:15,519 every couple of years and work towards changing the language in our literature. You 477 00:38:15,559 --> 00:38:19,599 know, some of it is an appeal to tradition. We see that fallacy 478 00:38:19,639 --> 00:38:22,719 along the lines of you know, how it was written, and a lot 479 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,639 of us see those problems. You know, a lot of us are more 480 00:38:24,679 --> 00:38:29,159 focused on like the community aspect of you know, when I got clean, 481 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,360 I needed somebody that had been there, you know, I needed somebody to 482 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,880 call and say, you know, hey, Seth, look, I don't 483 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,159 know why I'm thinking about using you know, but I am. And you 484 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,280 know, somebody would say, hey, look I've been there, this is 485 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,760 how I did it. It really does help, you know, that sense 486 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,639 of community. I have an undergrad and psychologist kind of my thing, and 487 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,400 that's the kind of nursing that I do, and we see it a lot. 488 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:52,280 And I really think that if you can remove some of the religious language 489 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,679 from the program, and a lot of us have I can't speak for people 490 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,880 as a whole, but I can say that for me, it helped a 491 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,840 great deal because it wasn't just about the higher power at that point, you 492 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:05,400 know, it was about the power greater than myself. Was the people around 493 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,079 me that helped me with my addiction. That has been there, you know, 494 00:39:07,119 --> 00:39:10,719 that unifying concept of hey, together we can. That's a that's a 495 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,440 recurring theme in our literature, you know, together we can. When I 496 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:20,159 hear community, I don't think God, I don't think spirits. I don't 497 00:39:20,159 --> 00:39:30,039 think higher power. I hear shared experience and human supports and love and no 498 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,400 gods, no monsters. You know, to me, that sounds like the 499 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,639 kind of thing I could really get behind. And it's only whenever people have 500 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,159 their agency removed that I start to become concerns. But if it has helped 501 00:39:42,199 --> 00:39:45,880 you, man, I'm just glad that you are on the other side, 502 00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:49,519 and I'm glad that you've had success, and I wish you an addiction free 503 00:39:49,559 --> 00:39:54,039 life of freedom and happiness, love and goodness absolutely well. And so I 504 00:39:54,039 --> 00:39:59,159 completely agree with that. I think that the net is very big. It's 505 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:00,679 kind of one of the biggest dogs in the fight, the whole twelve step 506 00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:05,039 program. I think that we still have a lot of reform with regards to 507 00:40:05,079 --> 00:40:07,400 the language, some of the religious language, some of the very gender specific 508 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:12,639 language. You know, we recently have voted on the idea of doing away 509 00:40:12,679 --> 00:40:15,519 with this terminology of God, you know, for people that prefer to say 510 00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:21,119 higher power or whatever. I think that, like you said, I agree 511 00:40:21,159 --> 00:40:23,440 that the core tenants don't have to involve a lot of that. I guess 512 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,440 I just wanted to give you a different picture. You know, a lot 513 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,480 of us don't feel that way. I mean, I don't think you and 514 00:40:29,519 --> 00:40:32,679 I disagree. I hear a lot. There are also some secular sobriety programs 515 00:40:32,679 --> 00:40:36,360 out there that are starting to get noticed, and they do the same thing. 516 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,320 It is about community. I think they may be a little more focused 517 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:45,199 on the science of addiction, how is the body acting and reacting to substances, 518 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:51,159 the psychology behind addictive behaviors, and then really focusing not on gods or 519 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,480 higher powers, but on the power that we have as human beings. And 520 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,719 if A does more of that, and the twelve step programs do more of 521 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,440 that. Moving forward, delighted, But I think you and I largely line 522 00:41:01,519 --> 00:41:05,719 up, and I wish you all success in your journey. Okay, we 523 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,440 definitely do it. Hey, Seth, thank you again for everything you do. 524 00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:10,119 I can't wait to see you at the at the next a bit you 525 00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:13,920 speak at buddy, very kind, so much. Thank you. We'll see 526 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,280 you later. Two five six is it? Dan? Yeah? Dan, 527 00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:20,800 appreciate you man. What's up? What do you want to talk about? 528 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,079 Well, I had a personal story I was wanting to tell you, but 529 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:29,400 I'm listening to the previous conversation. I just had a comment about borders and 530 00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:34,440 national identity. And you know, I was born and raised in the US. 531 00:41:34,559 --> 00:41:38,400 I lived here, but through work, I have the opportunity to travel 532 00:41:39,079 --> 00:41:45,559 about two hundred days a year through Africa, eur Middle East, Asia, 533 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:52,079 and through my experiences, the one thing I've determined is that we're really all 534 00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:59,280 the same. When you have the opportunity to get to know personally an African 535 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,960 or a German, or a Greek or someone from the Middle East, and 536 00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:09,360 you sit down and you have a meal with them, those imaginary lines disappear 537 00:42:09,559 --> 00:42:15,280 really quickly, and you find that we all really do want the same things. 538 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,320 We want, the same lives, we want, you know, we 539 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:23,519 all seek the same happinesses and so yeah, if you want to criticize governments 540 00:42:23,639 --> 00:42:29,280 by all means. You know, criticize the looks religions by all means, 541 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,719 but you always have to keep in mind that these people, they're just like 542 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:37,079 us. There's the borders are like you said, they're drawn by some person, 543 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:42,960 and they don't really mean anything in the lives of the people we meet. 544 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,760 Who was it who said one of the best cures for bigotry is travel 545 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,599 to go and meet the people that you have othered for so long. I'm 546 00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:57,719 fully aware that there are some right now who are screaming about the border wall. 547 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,360 We need a wall and at the Mexican border because them Mexicans, you 548 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,880 know, have come up, the illegals have come up. And yet you 549 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,280 know, there have been so many instances where we are introduced to immigrants and 550 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:13,679 people who are from other countries our southern border in past, and they meet 551 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,239 them and realize that they are people who simply want to escape oppression, who 552 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,519 love their families and want their protection, who work hard, who want to 553 00:43:21,519 --> 00:43:23,800 share this planet in peace. You know, when you see those walls, 554 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,800 you see the bigotries come down and dissipate. You're right, Let's meet the 555 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,840 people we share the planet with in good faith. Good things can happen. 556 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:36,920 That's why my brother. What else did you want to talk about today? 557 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,800 Well, I had a story that I think you might find interesting. It 558 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:45,960 was it was my conversion story, and I haven't really heard anyone like it. 559 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:50,800 A little backstory up in twenty twelve, me and my wife came out 560 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,440 of the religion of that we were raised in by our parents through research and 561 00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:00,000 watching videos online and stuff, and I had got into a place where I 562 00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:05,400 was like, I'm okay with the fact that I don't believe my religion anymore. 563 00:44:06,199 --> 00:44:08,880 But I wasn't really interested in taking it any further. I was okay, 564 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,480 I can believe in God, I can believe in heaven and Hell, 565 00:44:13,559 --> 00:44:17,920 and I don't have to believe my religion that I was raised in. But 566 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,280 through my travels, I spend tons of time in hotel rooms and I passed 567 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:29,400 my time a lot of times watching YouTube. And I was in bed one 568 00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:35,800 evening watching some videos and ended up falling asleep, and I had left the 569 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:42,119 auto play on, so the videos just kept rolling through while I'm sleepy, 570 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:47,480 and I wake up the next morning with these memories of these vivid dreams that 571 00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:53,400 I had been having at night, and I had this overwhelming aha moment where 572 00:44:53,400 --> 00:45:00,000 I'm like it all makes sense. I finally get it, and I had 573 00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:04,679 never felt it. It was a close I guess I could say a religious 574 00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:08,079 experience for a lack of a better term. But I realized at that moment 575 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:15,639 that I don't believe anymore. And I noticed my YouTube was playing. So 576 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:21,599 I was that voice in my head is so crystal clear. I could still 577 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,719 hear that voice talking to me. So I'm like, was it something I 578 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,480 was watching? So I started hitting the back button, back, back back, 579 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:35,880 and I came to a video and it was Seth Andrews. Christianity made 580 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:40,039 me sound like an idiot, no way, I know. I hit play. 581 00:45:40,599 --> 00:45:45,079 As soon as I hit play, I'm like, that was the voice 582 00:45:45,159 --> 00:45:50,440 in my head, That's what I was listening to. And so I was 583 00:45:50,559 --> 00:45:54,800 so focused on that video, watched it intently, and watched another one and 584 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:59,920 another one. I probably spent the next twenty hours doing nothing but watching video. 585 00:46:00,199 --> 00:46:05,480 And it was like that voice in my head that and I don't know 586 00:46:05,559 --> 00:46:09,679 if it was that in my sleep. My cognitive dissonance wasn't able to kick 587 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:14,719 in and shut it down. Like we've been taught through religion. You know 588 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:19,920 you hear anything that contradicts you to shut it down. And it was the 589 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,519 first time that I was able to when I woke up, tell myself I 590 00:46:23,559 --> 00:46:29,800 don't believe. And for the first time I know why. It all made 591 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:36,159 sense. Every doubt I had had my entire life, every nagging question came 592 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:44,519 pouring back of I finally understand. And I have wanted to thank you so 593 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:51,559 deeply for the work that you do because it literally changed my life forever, 594 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,920 and I'm so grateful to you. Dude. I came to you in a 595 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:59,960 dream like it was like an apparition that appeared before the in the dream. 596 00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:04,119 That's just a story that I would like to tell at parties, you know, 597 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,719 But it was it was that face, I mean, the voice you 598 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:13,400 have for radio. It was so soothing and calming, and it just hooked 599 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:17,559 me. For the first time, it all just made sense. Well, 600 00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:22,199 that's tremendous for me to hear. You know. I think all of us, 601 00:47:22,679 --> 00:47:25,880 no matter where we are, even at a point position somewhere, you 602 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:30,320 know, I think sometimes we have imposter syndrome. You know, Do I 603 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:35,000 really deserve to be doing this? There are other people more qualified? Doesn't 604 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,800 really make a difference. And when someone tells you this kind of story, 605 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:43,840 I mean, it's totally blows my mind and makes my day. And you 606 00:47:44,039 --> 00:47:47,039 encourage me. You've done the heavy lifting. You're the one who's now living 607 00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:52,880 an authentic life on your terms acknowledging that you don't buy it. I think 608 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,039 that's inspiring and I'm so glad you told me. That's really amazing. Man. 609 00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,440 Well, if you ever have doubts about your work, just know that 610 00:48:01,519 --> 00:48:06,599 there's at least one person out there that owes you more than you'll know. 611 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:08,159 Now, you're very kind. I hope we get a chance to shake hands 612 00:48:08,199 --> 00:48:12,199 in person someday. Okay, now, I'd look forward to that. All 613 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,920 right, be safe. Thanks again. So if it works like that, 614 00:48:16,119 --> 00:48:22,880 could we lull other believers to sleep and then just sneak in and turn the 615 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:29,480 speech on, like if the defenses are down? Would that work? Oh 616 00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:32,599 aren't you sleepy? Go to sleep? Go to sleep? Da da da 617 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,960 da da dad. They're out, and then we go and put on a 618 00:48:37,039 --> 00:48:40,960 thinking atheist podcast. Maybe that's the way it. Maybe that's how we cut 619 00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:45,000 through. I don't know. Regardless, I am absolutely blown away by that 620 00:48:45,079 --> 00:48:50,760 call. Okay, if you want to go to sleep and listen to our 621 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,719 final segment. Subliminally, now would be the time. I'll be right back 622 00:48:54,760 --> 00:49:04,880 after this break. Don't forget. I've got a second podcast of short form 623 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:09,039 True Stories. Would love to have you check it out and subscribe True Stories 624 00:49:09,199 --> 00:49:16,159 podcast dot com. Three two three Are you there? What's your name? 625 00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:22,199 Joel? Joel? What's on your mind? Yeah? I was curious about 626 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:28,519 attitudes of Evangelical Christians towards Jews while you were still an Evangelical Christian. Just 627 00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:31,840 for a background, I grew up Jewish and a liberal family in Los Angeles, 628 00:49:32,679 --> 00:49:36,360 and you know, there's still a fair amount of Jews here, but 629 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,400 it's you know, there's still a very distinct minority. And you know, 630 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,440 I would get a lot of I mean, most people were fine, but 631 00:49:43,519 --> 00:49:46,719 I would get people either who just cannot understand why my family didn't sell very 632 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:52,280 Christmas down to kids who are telling me that I had murdered their Lord and 633 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:57,519 things like that. And I'm just curious what you saw as attitudes towards Jews 634 00:49:57,559 --> 00:50:01,480 when you were still an Evangelical Christian. My family honored the Jews. In 635 00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:06,119 fact, until my father's death a couple of years ago. I think They 636 00:50:06,159 --> 00:50:12,039 had on the back of their car a pro Israel window sticker to show solidarity 637 00:50:12,519 --> 00:50:15,960 for God's Chosen people and the Holy Land. You know, they were very 638 00:50:15,039 --> 00:50:21,119 much Zionists in that way. They were fans of the Jews even it's which 639 00:50:21,159 --> 00:50:25,519 is weird because I don't believe Jewish tradition holds to Christ or Christ's return. 640 00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,719 Was that true in your case? Right? You weren't. You're not a 641 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,880 Jesus oriented culture. If you're a Jew, Jesus is essentially irrelevant to Judaism. 642 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,079 Yeah, yeah, which is so it's weird to see devout evangelicals who 643 00:50:38,079 --> 00:50:45,039 were really very pro Jewish state honored the Jewish people when the Jewish people in 644 00:50:45,079 --> 00:50:47,960 that very important way, it kind of rejected Jesus. You think it was 645 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,000 because they really admired the Jewish people, or was it because they thought it 646 00:50:52,119 --> 00:50:57,599 was essential for the Book of Relation to play outs for the Jews to all 647 00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:00,280 go to Israel. I don't think it's binary. I saw both. My 648 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:05,360 father took us to a film I was, you know, I couldn't really 649 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,119 get into it. I was so young, but it was called The Chosen 650 00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:13,119 and the two characters in the film, one was sort of a mainstream, 651 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:19,239 casual cultural Jew and the other was a hardcore Orthodox Jew. And they were 652 00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,960 both teenagers and their lives intersected, and it was sort of a contrast of 653 00:51:23,079 --> 00:51:28,800 cultures. But both of these young men lived under the umbrella of Judaism, 654 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,079 and it showed how much they had in common against their differences, becoming human 655 00:51:32,159 --> 00:51:37,199 being sharing the same space, worshiping the same God. And my father thought 656 00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:40,960 that was an amazing story. He had real admiration for the Jewish people. 657 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:47,239 But you bring to light one of the major excuses that white supremacists and other 658 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:52,039 racist and bigots have against Jewish people. They're saying, well, the Jews 659 00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:58,440 reject Christ, so we reject the Jews, and we must do so biblically, 660 00:51:58,559 --> 00:52:02,119 morally, etc. You know, that's how they excuse bigotry against the 661 00:52:02,199 --> 00:52:06,639 Jewish people. It's pathetic. Do you think that work. Do you know 662 00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:09,760 what people thought about Jewish salvation and do they think they could still go to 663 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:15,360 heaven even though they didn't accept Jesus. We never talked about that. I 664 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:19,159 think in my mind, our culture had always just assumed, well, the 665 00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:22,960 chosen people are in man, you know, say you're the chosen people, 666 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:27,360 so you always kind of got your back, right, You've already got the 667 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,519 golden ticket. We're not too worried about the Jews. That was our I 668 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:36,880 really do. I think that Christian homes are so varied the spectrum of this 669 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:42,000 sort of custom fitted Christianity, from the hardcore to the casual to everybody in 670 00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:47,159 between. Different interpretations, different Bible translations, different prophets, pastors, agendas, 671 00:52:47,159 --> 00:52:50,599 etc. I mean, you can go to any Christian home and ask 672 00:52:50,639 --> 00:52:52,880 them about the Jews. You're probably going to get a different answer. But 673 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,480 my culture where I came out of, we were very deferential. You know, 674 00:52:57,519 --> 00:53:00,880 we sort of honored the Jewish people because they were indeed chosen. But 675 00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:06,440 we are seeing in our headlines today a lot of Bible thumping Christians who have 676 00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:12,519 attacked and continued to attack Jewish people because they rejected Christ and or maybe they 677 00:53:12,599 --> 00:53:16,960 are just simply monstrous, awful people. So have you experienced as far as 678 00:53:17,039 --> 00:53:21,360 discrimination in that way? I mean, you live in the United States, 679 00:53:21,639 --> 00:53:24,239 are you feeling that heat? Not really? I mean, growing up I 680 00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:30,000 always get some ignorance and hostility, and especially kids telling me and either going 681 00:53:30,039 --> 00:53:32,519 to Hell or that we murdered their lord and things like that. I mean, 682 00:53:32,519 --> 00:53:35,920 as an adults, I've gotten very little, you know, I do 683 00:53:36,039 --> 00:53:39,000 see a lot of ignorance among other people about Judaism. And like I was 684 00:53:39,039 --> 00:53:43,559 having a conversation with a co worker a number of years ago. It was 685 00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:47,400 an evangelical Christian and she could not wrap her head around the fact that Jews 686 00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:52,119 did not believe in Jesus. That Jesus was irrelevant. Help me understand something. 687 00:53:52,159 --> 00:53:57,960 This is a conversation I'm interested in. Is being a Jew a belief 688 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,760 system or is it a netchnicity? Like if I was to decide I'm an 689 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:07,159 adherent to Judaism, would I then be a Jew? Or is jew more 690 00:54:07,199 --> 00:54:10,480 of a racial question? Or I mean, are these discussions that people have 691 00:54:10,599 --> 00:54:15,719 within Jewish cultures some extent? I mean, Judaism is a religion, it's 692 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:21,239 not an ethnicity. But at least most Jews are of a particular of the 693 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,320 Oscan Nazi ethnicity, which is extended from Jews who had settled, you know, 694 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,199 many centuries ago in Eastern Europe. So that's my background, and so 695 00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:34,360 there's a certain culture associated with it. And you know, talking about what 696 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,719 Jews believe, there's many, many different streams of Judaism, just like in 697 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:42,440 Christianity. You know, I grew up Jewish, but I became an atheist 698 00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,639 when I was fairly young. And most Jews I know in la and Los 699 00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:51,760 Angeles are not practicing. They're either atheist or just not practicing. But you 700 00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,599 know, there's a certain cultural association with you know, Yiddish culture and some 701 00:54:55,719 --> 00:55:00,280 of the holidays and things like that, but most most Jews or not particularly 702 00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:07,480 religious. So it would be akin to we see Islam more attributed to those 703 00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:13,159 of Middle Eastern cultures and ethnicities. But you can be anybody and believe the 704 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,239 Quran. You can hold to the religion of Islam. Would that be inaccurate? 705 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:21,159 Sure? Is that similar to how Judaism works. Yeah, Like there 706 00:55:21,159 --> 00:55:23,599 are Muslims of all stripes, there are Jews of all stripes, but you 707 00:55:23,599 --> 00:55:30,320 know, most of them who fall into either the Hashkenazi or the Phardic ethnicities. 708 00:55:30,679 --> 00:55:37,280 Interesting that what is it fifty percent of Jews. I'm trying to remember 709 00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:39,679 the study. Somebody look it up in fact check me, but it's like 710 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:45,440 roughly half of people who profess Judaism either don't believe in a God or have 711 00:55:45,679 --> 00:55:52,079 some significant doubts about God. Does that ring true for you? At least 712 00:55:52,199 --> 00:55:54,039 my experience, it does. I mean, there are Jewish communities that are 713 00:55:54,119 --> 00:55:59,960 very religious, but at least in my experience and Los Angeles that most Jews 714 00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:02,519 are not particularly religious. You know, they do believe in God, it's 715 00:56:02,519 --> 00:56:07,320 sort of a vague way. A lot of Jews I know who say they 716 00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,639 believe in God. You know, I think it's more they enjoy the you 717 00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:14,360 know, the culture and celebrating the holidays and going to temple and things like 718 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,400 that, but they're not deeply religious at all. I support that. I 719 00:56:17,559 --> 00:56:22,280 love the idea of ritual to frame the human experience. No God's required, 720 00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:28,880 so you can enjoy the music and the tradition and the dress and the stuff. 721 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:34,039 You know, you can fashion all of these accouterments for specific parts of 722 00:56:34,079 --> 00:56:38,639 your life, but you don't really necessarily needs supernatural thinking to be a part 723 00:56:38,639 --> 00:56:43,559 of it. And I think we're seeing this played out within much of the 724 00:56:43,639 --> 00:56:46,559 Jewish cultures out there, and I think that's very interesting to watch. You 725 00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:51,760 know. It's sort of a non theistic religion of tradition. Yeah, that's 726 00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,079 a good way to put up. Well, these are interesting questions. All 727 00:56:54,079 --> 00:56:59,159 I can say is from my experience, we honored the Jewish people. We 728 00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:04,480 wanted a Jewish state. Israel belongs to the Jews. Kind of thing against 729 00:57:04,599 --> 00:57:07,800 all the opposition. It is a holy war, if it must be, 730 00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:12,199 kind of thing in advance of the return of Christ, which the Jews didn't 731 00:57:12,199 --> 00:57:16,719 really believe in. But you know, welcome to religion. Right. Your 732 00:57:16,719 --> 00:57:21,639 brain just can compartmentalize it will, But I appreciate your call very much, 733 00:57:21,679 --> 00:57:23,400 my friend. Okay, thanks that all right, hang in there, we'll 734 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:28,679 see you. I'm gonna call it my friends. Let me finish this by 735 00:57:28,679 --> 00:57:32,599 saying that I'm glad that this is a community that transcends borders. We are 736 00:57:34,039 --> 00:57:39,199 a globe, we are a planet without border lines. And it's so cool. 737 00:57:39,239 --> 00:57:44,320 When I did local radio, we'd have people within the city. You 738 00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:47,280 know, there's this sort of broadcast radius as pretty narrow. But in the 739 00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:53,039 age of the Internet, I get correspondence from Japan. I hear from listeners 740 00:57:53,039 --> 00:58:00,880 in Russia and Brazil and Mexico, and it's crazy. And so we may 741 00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:07,760 be an example of humanity without borders. Right belief systems, convictions about the 742 00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:15,440 world are humanistic values. These are not national values. They are human values. 743 00:58:15,519 --> 00:58:20,119 And we are all the human race. Love you much, have a 744 00:58:20,159 --> 00:58:23,440 great week. We'll see you bye. Follow the Thinking Atheist on Facebook and 745 00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:29,119 Twitter for a complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and t 746 00:58:29,239 --> 00:58:34,320 shirts featuring the Thinking Atheist logo, links to atheist pages and resources, and 747 00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:38,440 details on upcoming free thought events and conventions. Log onto our website, The 748 00:58:38,559 --> 00:58:42,039 Thinking Atheist dot com.