Welcome to the Seafood Matters Podcast, a voice for the UK fishing industry.
I'm your host, Jim Cooey. Hi Roberta, Welcome the Seafood Matters Podcast.
I'm delighted that you're able to join me and are shure. Can you
please start by telling our audience about you, where you have come from and
who your career has progressed. Thank you, Jim. It's it's lovely to
be able to join you all the way from Australia. Isn't modern technology amazing?
So I think you and I met through your son Anthony, because he
was working in hospitality down here in Sydney, wasn't he. That's correct?
Yeah, And I was running Sydney Seafood School at the time, which I
did for twenty three years. So Sydney Seafood School is Australia's largest recreational cooking
school and a lot of the chefs, including Giam who Anthony was working for,
were doing cooking classes for me. So the cooking schools at Sydney Fish
Market, which is the largest fish market in the Southern Hemisphere, and we
were teaching about twelve thousand home cooks each year how to Prepare Fresh Austrayan Seafood.
Yeah, and I think I met you when you came down to visit
Anthony and you came along and did one of our classes, didn't you.
That's good it one several. I think that team. We were there for
just over three weeks and I was on the Sydney Fish Market eleven teams in
Oh my goodness for you. It's a good spot and they're building a brand
new fish market right next door, so by twenty twenty five it'll be an
incredible new, state of the art facility. But I'm not there anymore.
Yeah, agree with that's all. And you've progressed from there, I take
it. Indeed. Indeed, I left two years ago, so twenty twenty
one after we got through our first big COVID lockdown and I thought it was
all clear sailing and I left to start my own business, not knowing we're
about to go into a second lockdown. But anyway, that is what it
is. Yeah, yeah, if you don't mind, if I could start
with what the Seafood School said, I have to say, Roberta, I
thought the whole set up, the whole mark from this auction to the Seafood
school and the stalls selling all the different kinds of seafood. It was just
such a vibrant feeling and so exciting and interesting, educational, anything, any
word you want to to bring up, and I just feel suddenly have certainly,
and and I know, although you won't tell me, I know from
Anthony that you had a major, major part in the role to get the
Seafood School where it is. But the whole setup is so fantastic and it
brings so many people to understand the fishing industry. It is an incredible venue
and the new one hopefully will be even more amazing. It's got a lot
as far as I know, it's unique in Australia at least that combination of
wholesale and retail, so having the early morning auction where the fishermen are actually
all the auctioneers are auctioning that day's catch, and then having the retailers on
site as well, and the school was certainly a very big draw card,
and it did evolve a lot over the twenty three years I was there.
Yeah, I would say the only place, the only place I know almost
certainly in Europe and probably the world, there will not be many quite as
far ahead as the Sydney Fish Market, and the closest I can think of
any idiots come to you, is billings Get Bullie. Yes, yes,
so do I think bullians Get's got a lot of character. But it's it's
not it's not on the heart, it's not on the sea where there it's
not good. It's fish has been sent over land to buildings Get. It's
not a fish market on a horror look, A lot of the seafood that
arrives at Sydney Fish Market is sent as well. I mean, there's no
way that a market like Sydney can be supplied just out of our local waters.
So we do have a local I say we. I still, even
two years later, I think of it as a little piece of meat.
Sydney Fish Market has a local fleet, but a lot of the seafood comes
from up and down the coast, from the various fish co ops, and
also from interstate and even as far away as New Zealand and further Afield.
Okay, okay, that's interesting then. And Billingsgate, by the way,
the cooking school at Billingsgate is modeled on Sydney Seafood School. So when they
were building that cooking school. They came and visited us and I gave them
a lot of help and they went away and created their own seafood school,
but it was largely modeled on Sydney Seafood School. Well that's interesting, I'm
not surprised. And the girl, I'm sure you know CJ who I know
CJ very well. Yeah, she's a lovely person as well and equally as
I would say, equally as enthusiastic about buildings. Get seafood schoolers. You
are a boot Sydney. I actually had the pleasure of collaborating with CJ.
She edited the or wrote the DK Seafood Cookbook and she asked me to edit
the Australian addition, so we got to work together on that, which was
a fabulous project. Yeah. Oh is that is that what we'res that published?
Ah, that's so d K. You might have to take this offline
to actually get the details, but I think it's Dora Kin. I'll send
you the details, so you might have to edit that section out. I'll
make a note how to do it. I think DK is a British publisher
and it was a cookbook that CJ wrote and I edited the Australian edition,
but I'll send you a link to the details. Okay, thank you,
thank you. And it must have been. I mean I used to see
that all the top, top the top, all the top chefs, everyone,
even you know, Tetsuya, Neil Perry, Matt Moran, they all
taught there. I mean it's it's clear to you for inspired in that gaze
to come along and do that look the hospitality industry, and I really for
those twenty three years, and even now am still part of that industry,
on the fringe in Sydney, at least in Australia. It's very much looking
after each other. So I supported them and still do and they supported me.
I mean we even had the likes of David Thompson and Chong Lu internationally
acclaimed chefs doing classes with us. I'm not sure that's still the case,
but it was certainly an amazing time. It must have been, because I
mean the must have taken on a lot of talent and inspired a lot of
people. I think during my I think I worked out during my twenty three
years there, we had over two hundred and forty thousand people come through our
doors. So and I know I hear from some of them still, and
I know they cook some of our recipes regularly, so the recipes became favorites
and are on high rotation, as they say in their households, which I
guess there's no higher compliment they can pay me than to say that, because
I wrote a lot of those recipes. Well, when you talk about that,
Robert, I've even said it, Franz, your husband, and he's
he agreed with me. We were talking about recipe books and he reckons,
well, I reckon it's me had said it. I think that Sydney Cookbook,
Sydney Seafood Cookbook is one of the best ever written. Oh thank you.
That means a lot to me because that was a collaboration with so many
dear friends that are chefs. I think we have over forty five Ossie chefs
in that cookbook, and a couple of whom are no longer with us anymore.
So it's a real snapshot in time. And every one of those recipes
was taught at the Seafood School at some time or other. Is that right?
Yeah? I thought it was a terrific book, really fantastic book,
and it's funny who can and be you know, I've seen it in so
many other things that we can be so far apart at the opposite ends of
the world. But you can see a recipe and although you don't I don't
have the fish that you cook it with in Australia, you can still there's
everywhere you go in the world there's a species you can use for that dish,
of course. And it's not just about seafood. I mean, that's
what I love about food and cooking and recipe writing that you start, you
use a recipe as a springboard, don't you to create your own. It's
inspiring. That's why I call my new business be Inspired, because recipes inspire
us to go off and do our own thing. Funny, you should say
that when I started in the Captain's Gully when I and I was never a
chef. I just went as a very true student to the local college just
to get the basics. And as I was doing that and then started cooking
myself in the restaurant. If anybody was to ask me who and who did
I get the inspiration from to start with, if I would be totally honest
about it, it was my mother. And I tell you a lot of
chefs have said that to me, that their inspiration was either their mother,
their father, or their grandmother. Yeah, well my grandma me. I
became a chef because my mother cooked so well, you know, she inspired
me. And others say I became a chef because my mother was such a
bad cook that I had to learn to cook if I wanted to eat anything.
A few chefs have said that to me, O, mothers are inspiring.
I'm sure yours was a very good cook. Well she was, and
it was all real, wholesome, good food. And she was still with
us when we opened it in early days when we opened and I would phone
out and say, Mom, I've got this certain species cord or something like
that, remember that you used to make. How did you what's a recipe?
She she never ever had a recipe. It was just spontaneous. It
was just and she would say, oh, I just I said, you
must have what what what ingredients? She would just say that handful of this,
and uh, that's how people's book. It was just on the cuff,
you know, as she was going. There was no following recipe.
But I think that's one of the reasons I started writing cookbooks, because that's
actually her chef's book too. Many of the chefs that I've worked with don't
have written recipes. Sometimes they do in their kitchens for their apprentices than their
staff to follow. But most people who cook cook by instinct and feel and
a handful of this, a pinch of that, cook it till it's ready,
Smell it, look at it, here it taste it. Yeah,
Indeed, to be disciplined with our big kitchen, it's better with something doing
for on paper for chefs to follow. Definitely, the one thing I felt
would be quite important with me anyway, would be I wanted to do it
like that and have it on paper because it didn't matter. Consistency was more
important to me, and I want it didn't matter who was in the kitchen,
the food was consistent. Look, I think consistency is key in good
restaurants, but I also know that chef's tweak recipes constantly. Most of the
chefs I know their recipes are ever evolving. Yeah. Well that's a good
thing as well, because it's got and it pulls good chefs away from the
average. And I guess also ingredients change, they change seasonally. You know,
one lemon is not as sour as another. Lemon. You know,
one head of garlic might a certain time of year, garlic might be more
pungent than other times of year. So even once your recipe is written down,
you do have to learn to smell, to taste, to work with
the ingredients you've got, don't you totally? Yeah, seafood it probably and
you can tell me more about this oil content. At certain times of year,
even oily fish will be more oily or less oily than other times of
year, or perhaps depending on where they're caught. Would that not be the
case? Oh? One, you take that well. One of the when
you talk about oily fish in this area, we would be talking about herring
and markrel mostly and the you know that the the the people buying herring for
say, to smoke it for as kippers, they would buy their herring,
their their year's supply. There they would be producing it all year round.
They would buy their herring in June and July because its oily, because that's
when it was at its peak, and maybe and the markrel would be later
in the year and then they would get the it was in the autumn,
and and that would that would was so important for depending on what what the
market, what the market was, and they obviously remarkrel in this country.
Now a lot of it goes to Japan used in the like a sushi and
things like that. Well it's of major importance. And even when with a
hearing, when a lot it's not so much now. But hey, we
used to do a lot of salting, salting herring and that would be absolutely
we would just I still I still do it myself for giving away the old
friends and things. And it was absolutely crucial. You caught it just before
it spawned and you had the row and it's just at its best, yes,
and the melt and the male and the row and the female and that
was that was primo. So it's all it's all about the seasons and all
about the oil content and working with what you've got. And do you know
good smoked fish That is something we can't really get in Australia. I mean
we get smoked trout and cold smoked salmon, but that's about it. And
when I get to Scotland, the first thing I want is some kippers.
Yeah, I wish someone was doing good kippers here. Well i'll tell you
what if you were does me for what's my favorite you want to try it
a couppered marcarel Okay, no, I think because are normally hearing, aren't
they? Kippers are normally heading, but kipper kept kippering as we call it.
Here is a you would do it differently. It's called smoked, right,
so markarel are predominantly hot smoked. All right, you get a cup
it and cold smoke it, just cool cool smoke the market, which is
like a cupper kippening, and then go it or do it you would do
with a the same way as you'd cook a heading. A smoke cup it
what it's out of this world. I'll look out for that next time.
Yeah, I'll tell you what if you ever have you ever admitted this far
north in the hemisphere, I'll cook going for you. Oh you know,
I'll be back, Jim. I would never come to Scotland and not go
to the very north. The highlands are my favorite part. Yeah. Well
we still we still enjoy enjoy the halins. I mean, we're we're sitting
in the garden. It's obviously better weather with us just now. We're out
in the garden watching all the birds given as a song. And we have
egg we have nests in our garden and they're feeding their young. The sun's
set in and the seeder he you know, it's it's just lovely brilliant.
I'm hoping to bring a food and wine to it to Scotland in twenty twenty
five. Actually I'm just sorry that you won't. Well you don't have the
Captain's galley anymore. The Compain's galley is still there doing well. Yeah,
absolutely, yeah, I'll bring my tour group to eat there in twenty twenty
five. Well, that would be fantastic. I think there would be well
looked after. He's a really talented cheffer as far as a chef is concerned.
He's a way better than me. I know a better about seafood.
But on chef in Jody, the guy who's name Jody Sinklett. He's a
really talent. But what you created their gym was very very special. Even
having the foresight to turn that building into a restaurant, it's quite amazing.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's like I'm not going to start being sully
and beaten myself. But yes, I think, but it's everybody's got their
tame and sure, no, it's like me leaving the seafood school. You
do what you do and then you get out of the way and let someone
else do their thing. Absolutely. Yeah, I think I often see it
to people. I think it reached the stage where we needed away and the
Captain's Gali needed that away. Yep. Well that's possibly the same story as
me and the Seafood School. Yeah, but you must take a lot of
prayed and what you're talking about what I created or what you created? What
where was it when you started? It's a long long time ago. Look,
it certainly didn't have the profile that it had when I left, and
I think, you know, bringing in all of the top chefs was very
exciting for me because I love those guys and being able to collaborate with them
put them in front of the audience. You know. Some of them were
very experienced presenters, but some of them were just starting out and I was
with them on that journey and that was pretty exciting. And also in two
thousand and nine, the school turned twenty years old. I can't remember when
you saw it, but we closed for three months in two thousand and nine
and basically gutted it and rebuilt it. And the way it is now fifteen
years later, Nelly. It is still a beautiful, state of the art
facility and a really really good venue. So that was one of my proudest
moments actually leading that redevelopment. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, it's a how
long ago was that? So that was two thousand and nine, nearly fifteen
years ago, So I can't remember if you saw it before the renovation or
after. But it always had good bones, but what we did with it
in two thousand and nine made it very very special. We got media accolades
for that from all over the world because we had a really really good designer
work on it. And he's also I brought him on board to design the
new seafood school at the New Fish Market, which you'll open in twenty twenty
five. All right, Okay, I think I've seen both from memory,
because when I come up it was quite different when we were there last year,
just after I sold the restaurant and we were there along we went for
a session there, and it was much different than Oh my goodness, what
of us, what facilities credible? You were all broken up in your groups
and you're there was three of us, Anthony, Alexandra and myself and we
all had you know, around the what you call them, the station's bench,
yes, yeah, aliens, yeah, yeah, anything like that.
And it was so well equipped. I was hugely impressed. I don't think
there's anywhere else like it for hands on cooking. It would be the largest
hands on cooking facility that I know of in for recreational cooking, at least
in Australia. Yeah. Yeah, it was quite funny. At once stage
Anthony was asking me and I said, oh, I'm not I'm not making
them out and I'm not hearing them properly. And he said, there must
be something far wrong. You're hearing that before you're when you're not hearing that.
I says, yeah, but it's what's bah. It was better to
me it was bah. But anyway I sorted it out. It was a
compromise. I got hearing as when I come home as well. Did you
okay? But no, I thought it was. It's just so inspirational and
I just feel it brings the public to you know, it's such a great
day way of getting it. I would I could see by looking at it.
I just feel how much the fishing industry in this country would benefit if
they had something like a facility like that. Well, you find me the
space and I'll pop on over and organize it. Jim ah, Well,
well, for example, the Lake of Peterhead, it's the biggest fish I
think it's the biggest landing by landing, it's the biggest in Europe. But
unfortunately there are we behaved. As far as everything else is concerned, there's
still it's still a talking auction. There's no electronics. And and then you
go up to the Lake of Shetland and an Ailand community and and there they
were all electronic and doing fantastic. Took the electronics certainly more efficient, but
there's something charming about the voice auction as well. Up until a few years
ago, Sydney Fish Market still did the sashimi fish by voice, and people
used to love hearing that. You know, when we took people through the
market for tours of the morning, they'd love hearing the live voice auction.
Okay, I've done much for twenty five years myself, and it's a skill
that will be lost if it's not used. You know, the real danger
for Sydney Fish Market now that there's no voice auction as people retire is those
clocks can break down. Electronics, you know, things go wrong and there
needs to be someone there who still knows how to call an auction properly.
Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. I'm not there against it.
I just think electronics progress. But he just said that they want me
to come over and organize a cooking school for them, and I will because
the one in New Zealand was modeled on Sydney Seafood School, and so was
the one up in Newcastle. So that's three other cooking schools that I know
of that have been modeled on what I did at Sydney Seafood School. Well
okay, and they don't need to go to so far to see you what
you've created, because you did the same thing for indeed. But when you
talk about auction, they talking auctions. I remember more than once, Colin.
And then I'm reached the end and I booked the fish. I booked
the fish down and to one of the buyers, and another buyer says to
me, hey, Jim, you've missed my bid. I says, I
was still bidding. I says, oh, sorry, I didn't see you.
And he says to me, well, you'll feel me next time,
because I'll kick your leg fair enough. So yeah, it's it was.
I just feel it was an era and the industries needs to be beyond that
because people don't have to you know, to travel to the market. They
can bed indeed, especially in Europe, because you know, people need to
be able to source from further afield than those that are in the immediate community.
That's right, yeah, yeah, and they're going forward. Then where
have you gone? What you've done with yourself leaving Sydney's Seafood School. Well,
the thing I loved most about the Seafood School there were kind of three
different parties involved. There was all of those fabulous home cooks that were so
passionate about what we were doing and learning how to cook. There were the
great chefs that we worked with that were just so willing to give their time
and their knowledge. And there were the fabulous producers and providores, whether it
was the excellent seafood we got or greate fruit and veg, you know,
good good meat, good dairy. We are very blessed in Sydney. We
can get a lot of great produce. So I wanted to find a way
to continue to work with great chefs, awesome producers and passionate home cooks.
And the way I decided to do that was to create a new business called
be Inspired, which is online cooking classes. And it grew out of something
we did during COVID because when we went into lockdown like the rest of the
world, we took the Sydney Seafood School virtual and they've stopped doing that now
because they've resumed face to face classes, but I wanted to continue the virtual.
So each month I choose a different cuisine. I work with a great
chef. I get a whole lot of awesome produce and we do a series
of recipes and people can either get the ingredients along with those recipes and videos,
or they can just get the recipes and videos. So I have people
cooking all over the world and all over the country with me through the recipes
and videos each month. That's brilliant. It's a lot of fun, and
it's because I'm a very engaged online community too, so people we have a
private Facebook group, and I know not everyone loves Facebook, but it's good
for these sorts of things, and regardless of where you are in the world,
you can cook. You can access me for questions by email, even
by phone, and everyone comes together through the Facebook group to show off what
they're cooking, to ask questions, to share ideas, and it's become a
very supportive and engaged community, which is very exciting. Is it very time
for you? It's a big commitment. It's my own business. Like The
Captain's Galley was a big commitment for you. But I'm a bit like you,
Jim. When I do something I do at one hundred and ten percent,
So it's it's a huge commitment. I've never done anything this big before
because everything I've got on the line, it's my own business. I've funded
it, it's a startup. My husband France is supporting me. He's a
great videographer and photographer. And it's seven days a week. I've had very
few days off in the last twenty four months. We create a beautiful,
full color E magazine every month around the theme. We create twelve to fifteen
cooking videos which are on YouTube. Some of them are freely available, most
of them are available with the with the E magazine. But I don't find
it tiring because it invigorates me. It's so exciting seeing people cooking things they've
never cooked before, trying new ingredients, trying new cooking techniques, exploring new
cuisines. It's a journey and it's very exciting. Yeah. Sorry. What
I meant with that, Roberta, is if it's all over the world and
you're in Australia, it would be at all teams of the twenty four hours.
Oh well, it's not large with a different tech with the different team
changes. Oh I see, I thought you had art they add axis to
you. Well they do. They can email me and if I'm asleep,
I won't answer that email until I wake up and they can call me.
But if I'm asleep, I'll have my phone on silent, so I sort
of back to people within twenty four hours. So it's it's just another exceeding
part of our really exciting career. From what I can magoda that And how
would you tell people to you know, to say, our listeners, our
audience to get in touch. How would you tell them to do that?
Look, I think if they My website's very simple, it's be inspired dot
au. Are you for Australia, so nice and short? So be inspired
dot au? Or if you don't remember that, just google ROBERTA. Mure.
There aren't too many of me. If you google my name you'll find
my website. Well that's good. And where would that tick them? Well,
that will take them to my to my website, to the b inspired
website. And as you know, Jim, you can subscribe to my weekly
newsletter as well, so I'll either get a pop up or there's a subscribe
button there. And whether people are getting the recipes and videos packs or not,
I still send out a free newsletter each week with a recipe. Plus
there's over two hundred recipes on my website. Yeah, well I do,
I get them. I have subscribed, and I think if you want,
in my honest opinion, I think it's well named because it doesn't it doesn't
spire it in each team an email comes in, I find it inspire the
thank you that's the aim that makes my heart very happy. Yeah, absolutely
totally. I think credit to you for for what you're doing. And you're
obviously a glass half full kind of person rather than half empty. That's the
Scottish way, isn't it. Remember I'm half Scottish. My dad was Scottish,
so I think it's just and my mum was a glass half full kind
of giral. So you just you get on with things, don't you totally
totally yeah, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, Well that's really that's
really fantastic. It's really exciting, and it's I like the when they come
in, the watching the emails and seeing the as you say, the inspirations,
even just the fact that I know your class he as a friend,
and I just think it's great to follow your journey. Well, given that
we're talking about seafood, I can tell you that one of the most exciting
things for me in developing the bee inspired product is each month we do four
menus entree and maine and sides or maine and sides, and desserts. And
it's not just seafood. Obviously, it's red meat, it's poultry, whatever.
But every time I do a dish with red meat or poultry, I
create a seafood equivalent because some of the people who cook with me are pescatarians,
so I can't cater for vegetarians, but I can cater for pescatarians,
and I take a classic dish like a beef Wellington, because this month we're
actually doing a month of British cuisine, so as well as the beef Wellington,
we did a salmon Wellington as well as a roast chicken. We did
some roast leather jackets with the same flavorings. Do you have leather jackets?
There is leather jacket of fish that you know? No, no, I
don't know what the closest equivalent would be. There are small fish with a
big head with a sharp spike on it, and the meat. Tetsu Ya
Wakuda, very famous chef, said that the texture of the leather jacket is
the closest he knows to Fugu fish, the famous Japanese fish. It has
a big, firm, white, flaky flesh and it's a really easy fish
to cook as a whole trunk without the head, and I love to use
it as a as an alternative to chicken for lots of things. Is it
an fish? Is it a is it aroned fish? A round fish?
No, we have very few round fish. It's it's a regular shaped fish.
I'll have to have a look. I'll see if I can find what
the closest. And it's called a leather jacket because it has a very thick,
leathery skin that you peel off. It doesn't you don't cook its skin
on because the skin would be inedible. I'll have to I've never thought about
it, but I'll have to think what the alternative would be in the northern
hemisphere. Yeah, I must have a look at that myself, because when
you talk about a big, chunky, wait fleak, I immediately think of
ling. Look, it's not dissimilar to ling in texture, but it's very
and we have ling down here. It's quite dissimilar to ling in appearance because
ling's quite eel like, isn't it. That's right. I'll send you a
photo and we'll work on it. We'll figure out what the equivalent would be.
But you could certainly use ling, but not whole. The beauty of
leather jacket is that you can use it whole. Yeah. Yeah, One
thing I did notice, ROBERTA have been back and forth in Australia. I
think you are. You have the edge definitely there. As far as shellfish
is concerned, I never really I didn't realize even that there were so many
different kinds of prawn right. Yes, we do have a good, good
selection of prawns and what we call bugs, some people call them slipper lobsters
maron. We have good fresh water shellfish as well. Beautiful maron from Western
Australia and yabbies locally, we are blessed, absolutely, but I did feel
that we have the edge as far as wet fish is concerned. You have
fish that we can only dream of, especially your big flat fish, your
turbot and things like that. That's right, they're amazing. And you have
much better scollops than us, do you think so? Oh yeah, Scottish
scallops are incredible. They are, they are, but I wasn't aware that
they would be better. Oh they're bigger, and Metia Australian scallops are quite
small. They're good, but they're quite small, and they're relatively in relatively
short supply, so often what you can buy is not good quality. Okay,
yeah, that's interesting. I wasn't aware of that, but I know
that the it's just a I mean ticking itut not just scallops. But I
remember when with shellfish oysters, there was a couple had an oyster farm up
in the Kayla Tongue, which is on the north coast here, just a
bit further awast, and the water displacement with two big tides every day was
fantastic. If you could imagine the nutrients and the oxygen and everything in the
water, and she the obviously the oyster farms, like anything with the bivalve
mollusks, muscle farmers and everything, they have to get water samples regular and
analyzed and over the course of the year, and maybe in the summer or
that they they would be closed. They would close officially because there would be
an algae bloom in the water and it was just an natural thing. It
didn't harm the animal, it didn't harm the shellfish, but it wasn't good
for us to eat. We've had it happen in Tasmania with our muscle industry.
Okay, okay, Well you know when they had the farming tongue twelve
months through the year and never once where they stopped. Oh really, it's
just an amazing you know. The quality of the water was always a double
A and that was that was quite unique, even ruined our waters. Well,
maybe we'll visit them in twenty twenty five on the Food and Wine tour.
I'll have to start to pick your brains about seafood producers that we can
visit. Well, there's a as well as that Roberta. Bear in mind,
there's a seaweed producer here and now that would be wonderful too. And
there's a fantastic product one of the seaweeds well known in this area. I
got dulls dulce dults. Yes, well you know, I'll tell you how
far how close dull sister, my heart. I remember when we were children,
my father used to dry it on the fire at the sitting room,
so you can you can imagine the smell in the sitting room. But when
I cook cook it, I was using the shore the company called themselves,
and they're dry in it, and it's a really good product. And I
was doing a soul one of our soal dishes in the restaurant with adult butter
sauce. Oh, that sounds wonderful. And as it was just taking me
back to my child did when I was getting a smell. Smells very evocative,
isn't it. It's one of the many wonderful things about food. It
brings back such memories. Totally. I describe it. But you use all
every everything we were given. Your eyes, you can see it, you
taste it, even use your ear. You do. And I've known a
few chefs who more some more than others, who describe how you know when
something's ready by the sound that it's making when it's cooking. And I think
that's a really underrated sense. When we're cooking, listening to the food is
as important as tasting it, smelling it and seeing it. Yeah, I
agree, saying I have met the Reckstein and he was doing one of his
books around the British Isles and he was standing and scrubs the market and his
description of when cooking. I thought it was lovely, he says. You
know, Jim, He says, importance is not how what is the important?
Important thing is not what you do with them when you're cooking the fish,
it's what you don't do. That's a very good point, isn't it.
And I think that's true with a lot of cooking. Less is often
more. Yeah, absolutely totally. And another term somebody used once when your
fish is in the pan on the cooker, once you start asking yourself,
I wonder if it's ready, get it off because it's overcooked. Do you
know the thing I was asked most often all the years at the seafood School
media, you know, journalists would say to me, what's the biggest mistake
people make when they're cooking seafood? And I would say, over cooking it,
you have to be brave enough to get it out of the pan.
Just It's like cooking pasta. You always have to take the pasta out of
the pan just before it's ready because it's going to continue to cook in the
residual heat, isn't it. Absolutely totally Yeah. That's the thing that I
think. That's one of the intriguing things I learned myself as I was getting
involved in the restaurant. It's cutting on cooking when it's on the plate.
Absolutely yeah, ROBERTA. The full things up of a couple of questions that
I ask each guest, I would like to get your answers. Certainly,
best meal you've ever had? You remember? Can I? Can I name
two? And you'll just see why in a minute. My best dining experience
ever was at Paul Bocuse in Lyon and it was just so memorable. The
man himself was still alive. I don't know if he was in the restaurant
at the time. But the reason I want to name two is because a
very very close second is relatively close to you, and it's Inner Sere restaurant
in Wales. And if a lot of your listeners are in Britain. They
really really need to visit in are in Wales. Y n y s h
I r why n y s h I r in is here? That's right?
And Gareth Ward is the cook. I think he's English, but living
in Wales, I think it's starting to get quite a bit of recognition now.
I think he's probably got one or two Michelin. But when France and
I went there maybe five six years ago, it was less on the map
and we were just blown away. It was one of It was the second
most amazing dining experience of my life after Paul Burcus. And it's in your
own backyard. Yes, that's something for me to go. And the other
question I ask each person, No, not not at restaurant, You're in
your own kitchen. It's your favorite pasta fagioli, Italian pasta and beans.
If I if I'm being lazy and I'm if France is away and I just
have to feed myself for a week, I make a big part of pasta
fajoli and I live off that comfort food. It is pure comfort food.
Those Italians they know comfort food. Yeah, fajuli beans, any beans I
use. I use a mixture actually of Bellotti and Cannellini, and I think
some people say it's a Venetian dish, but I think it's one of those
dishes that's made all over Italy with its own little regional variations. Okay,
yeah, well you've certainly you've certainly gone road the globe as far as or
no food from road the globe from your be inspired. Well, yes,
that's that's my thing. Food takes us traveling vicariously, and it certainly did
in the last few years when we couldn't travel quite as much. I think
the loveliest thing aboud Italian cook is a simplicity. Yes, I agree,
but lots of cuisines have that. If we go back, you know,
not so much in Asia, but in Europe, if we go back to
the rustic foods, they often were simple foods. And then look, I
think in Asia also it's not it. I don't understand Asian food as well
as I do European food, but I think simplicity is where we should be
heading. It's it's like Rick said about the seafood. It's not what you
do to it, it's what you don't do to it. Coco Chanel used
to say, as a woman you should look in the mirror and take one
thing off before you leave the house, because we tend to overdress, and
I think that applies to food and plates as well. When I'm designing a
dish, I think, now, what's the one thing I can take out
of this without harming the dish? And the dish is nearly always better for
having one less ingredient. Yeah. I love that sort of terms because it's
just so simple. Mix it so simple and simple as always the best I
think, so simple. Yeah, keep it simple as always been my water.
Well, I look forward to the next time I can cook for you,
Jim. So. I hope I see you and Mary back in Australia
sometime soon. You Well, we're certainly hoping to be as for sure.
Yeah, yeah, definitely, And it was great to see you just I
was going to say earlier this year, but it's actually last year now,
it was, it was it goes by so quickly. Well, hopefully we'll
get you back here and we can we can break bread and share a glass
of wine. Or are we dramed together soon? Well? Maybe maybe maybe
at all, maybe one of everything. Not. I I was in visiting
my brother in Malaysia, and he took me to this place and the guy
was he had fermented race Wayne thirty year old, fifty two percent proof.
Oh my goodness. It was just quite incredible. I've did feel the next
day. Oh I didn't have too much of it. I just got a
tiste of it, but it was I'm sure the food in Malaysia was wonderful
too. Oh, just to die for. I just enjoyed it so much.
And it's exciting because it's that fusion of different cultures that have come together.
And I think that's what makes Malaysian food so exciting. I think you
rate, I think you rate. There's Thai, Chinese, Malai, Indian,
Portuguese, Dutch and so many influences there. That's very true. That's
very true. You see that in the buildings and that as well. We
were in Malacca and very cosmopolitan. Absolutely just then figured it in as well.
It was the Malaise people are so lovely they are. Yeah, Son
of Malaysian Recipe Kit a few months ago and it was one of our most
popular. We did a duck luxA that people were very excited about. Yeah.
Yeah, well I had a duck pump panan curry. Ah. Yes,
actually made a Panang curry the other night with duck. Actually that's very
good. I think red curries and ducks of good combination. But it just
keeps coming out. Its it's funny. It's just it's good talking about the
mood. It never ends. It just ticks flo doesn't it. Well well
done you and it's it's it's quite exciting. And even sitting talking to you,
you know, and Jim, well done you. I mean, we
can have a mutual admiration society. But I remember the two amazing meals that
I've had at the Captain's Galley now, and I think you've left very big
shoes behind to be filled. No, it's they're well filled. They're a
well filled and I'm pleased please for that. Visits Texas tax A Restaurant to
are different to another level, and that's brilliant and it's good to see that
your your legacy is being well protected. Well yeah, you'll go different ways
and he's with his own stale and that it'll be good. Well, thank
you, thank you, Thank you so much, Jim. Thank you for
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