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Everybody, Thank you so much for
being with us throughout the day. And

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I couldn't be more pleased to sit
with Elon Musk as our final interview of

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this remarkable time we've all had together. He doesn't need much of an introduction,

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but I want to say a couple
of things. He's the richest person

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in the world. He may very
well be the most console, most consequential

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individual in the world right now.
He runs the most innovative companies in the

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world Tesla SpaceX, Starlink, which
is part of that Neurolink, the boring

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company X, and his X dot
Ai and he's disrupted each of these lanes.

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He's moved a breakneck speeds, but
he's facing us from controversy in the

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process. He joins us today following
and visited, as you all know so

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well, and we discussed earlier on
Monday to Israel, where he met with

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the Prime Minister there and the President
of Israel. And we're going to talk

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about everything, and my hope is
that we can talk about how he thinks

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about his influence, about his power, about all of it. And we're

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going to talk about innovation and everything
else. I want to say just two

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other things real quick. We met
each other for the first time sixteen years

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ago. Time, it's been a
long time, and all the kids were

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three when we first met. I
think you're just you're about to deliver your

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first roadster. I don't think you
had yet. Larry Page was still waiting

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to get like seven, two and
seven and eight, and I remember it

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was a little in two thousand and
eight. I remember going back to the

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newsroom and saying, I think I
just met the next Steve Jobs and I'm

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going to hold to that. I'm
going to hold to that. But a

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lot has happened between when I first
met you and now you came to deal

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Book and Boring that's for sure.
Actually, technically I do to have a

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boring company. Twenty twelve, you
came to deal Book and sat on this

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stage, and we're thrilled to have
you back. But there's been so much

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that's happened between now and then,
and there's been so much that's happened in

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the past week, week and a
half, and a lot of folks,

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and I want to tell you this, A lot of folks called me up

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and said, you really you're really
going to host elon musk here can you

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believe what he just said on Twitter
one x X no idea? What this

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Twitter? Should you platform him?
That's what they said, should you platform?

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And then I said that I think
it's our role. And I know

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you have issues with journal I have
a platform, and I know you have

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an issue with journalist oftentimes, But
I said, it's our role to have

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conversations and to inquire and to and
sometimes even interrogate ideas. And that's I'm

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hoping we can do that. So
I want to start just so we can

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begin this conversation and just level set, take us through everything that happened.

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If you could everything, no over
the past week and a half long.

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If you're God, we're gonna We've
got the time. Okay, you send

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out, you send out a post
or X or a tweet whatever. As

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I'm trying to say, you like
when things were just one hundred and forty

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characters, that made says to call
my tweet because it's like a bunch of

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little boasts chopping. But when you
know point which you can put like three

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our videos on, it's like it's
a very long tweet. So here we

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are. This is more descriptive,
I think, and at some point I

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don't know where you were, but
you write in responding to another tweet,

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yes, this is the actual truth, and it's set off a firestorm of

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criticism all the way to the White
House. Right, and then you make

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this trip to Israel. You have
advertisers who left the platform, people calling

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well, the trip to Israel is
independent of it wasn't something like apology to

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our clear that was. Let's talk
about that. So just but just take

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us back to the moment at which
you write that trip to israelative to indepenitive

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in response to that at all,
well, let's do We'll do israelan in

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a moment. I have no problem
being hated by the way I hear it

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away. Well, but you know
what, let's go straight to that then

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for a second. Sure, because
there is an idea and you could say

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that I think it's a real weakness
to want to be liked, a real

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weakness. I do not have that. Well, let me ask you this.

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Then there's a difference between saying I
don't care if anyone likes me or

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they hate me. But given your
power and given what you have a massed

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and the importance you have, I
would think you want to be trusted.

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I would think maybe you don't need
to be liked or hated, but trusted

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matters. If X is going to
become a financial platform where people going to

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put their money, where people where, where the government's going to give you

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money for rockets, where people are
going to get into the they need to

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ultimately decide that you are. Maybe
they don't have to say that they love

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you, but that you are ultimately
a decent and good human being. Yes,

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I mean I think I am,
but I'm certainly not going to do

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some sort of tap dance to prove
to people that I am. So.

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As for trust, I mean,
I think you break that down in a

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few ways if you want. If
you want satellites cent to orbit reliably,

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SpaceX will do eighty percent of all
master orbit this year. China will do

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twelve percent. The rest of the
world will do eight That includes Blowing Locke

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Eat and everyone else. So the
track record of the rocket is the best

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by far of anything. You could
hate my guts next you could not trust

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me. It is relevant. The
rocket track records speak for itself. With

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respect to Tesla, we make the
best cars. Whether you your hate me,

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likely or indifferent. Do you want
the best car or do you not

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want the best car? So?
Uh so I will certainly not pander and

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Jonathan like, the only reason I'm
here is because you are a friend,

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Like what was my speaking fee?
You know you're not making any First of

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all, I'm Andrew, but yeah, sorry, it's okay. Second of

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all, we've known each other for
a very long time, smoking yes,

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and listen, you know, uh
what, I'm trying to illustrate us that

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sometimes I say the wrong thing.
I think there are a lot of people

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who are tired. But let me, let me, let me go back.

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You should hear the sketches that SNL
wouldn't post. By the way,

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those are really good. And I
would say, unfortunately or fortunately or unfortunately

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whatever friendship we have not great.
We don't talk to you other that much.

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But let me ask you this true, that's true? Where am I?

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That doesn't matter long calls. Yeah, I'm here because you're you're a

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friend, not because I mean paytable, because I need any validation or anything.

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Is that we've been friends for sixteen
years and I promise you i'd be

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here, and that's why I'm here. Well, I appreciate you being here

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for other reasons. But let me
ask you this this then just go go

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at it. Just tell me what
happened. You write this tweet that says

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that this is the actual truth.
People read that tweet, yes, and

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they say Elon Musk is an anti
Semite. That he is. He is

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riling up this base. You're hearing
it from, as I said, the

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White House, You're hearing it from
Jewish groups all over. I think Jonathan

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green Black from the ADL is here. There's there's lots of people who say

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this. And by the way,
it's not just that read the whole thing

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I did. And that's why I
want I ask the responses. Excuse me,

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I said more more responses? Yeah, I said more. I said

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more than what you just read.
Yes, there was absolutely more. Yes,

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But I'll tell you the thing that
struck me. It wasn't and I'm

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an American Jew, It wasn't just
the people who who had that view.

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It was actually people who really are
anti Semites who said, oh my goodness,

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go Elon, this is fabulous.
And that actually was the thing that

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really really set me back. I
said to myself, what's going on here?

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And I want to know how you
felt about that? In that moment

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when you when you saw all of
this happening. Yeah, well, first

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of all, I did clarify almost
immediately what I meant. I would say

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that that was you know, if
I could go back and say, I

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should, in retrospect not have replied
to that particular person, and I should

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have written in greater length as to
what I meant. I did subsequently clarified

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in replies, but those topifications were
ignored by the media, and essentially I

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handed a loaded gun to those who
hate me, and arguably to those who

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are anti Semitic too, And for
that I'm quite sorry that that is not

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that was not my intention. So
I did, you know, post on

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my primary timeline to be absolutely clear
that I'm not anti Semitic, and that

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I, in fact, if anything, am filo Semitic, and the trip

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to Israel was planned before any of
that happened. It was neither handle there.

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Do you see you see this thing? You know what it is?

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I do because I actually followed your
entire trip to Israel, right, what

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do you tell everybody? This is
this says, says bring them home the

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hostages. It was given to me
by the parents of one of the hostages.

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And I said I would wear it
as long as there was a hostage

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store remaining. And I have what
was that trip like? And obviously you

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know that there's a public perception that
you're clarifying this now, but there's a

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public perception that that was part of
a apology tour, if you will,

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that this had been said online.
There was all of the criticism, There

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was advertisers leaving. We talked to
Bob, I stop, you hope don't

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advertise. You don't want them to
advertise? No, what do you mean

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if somebody's going to try to blackmail
me with advertising, blackmailing with money,

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go fuck yourself, but go fuck
yourself? Is that clear? I hope

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it is. Hey, Bob here
in the audience, Well, well let

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me ask you. Then that's how
I feel. Don't advertise? How do

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you think that about the economics of
of x if if if part of the

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underlying model at least today, and
maybe it needs to shift. Maybe the

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answer is it needs to shift away
from advertising. If you believe that this

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is the one part of your business
where you will be beholden to those who

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have this view, what do you
do why? I understand that, but

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there's a reality too, right,
Yes, no, no, I mean

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Lino Yakarino's right here and she's got
to sell advertising absolutely, so no,

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no, tell you so no,
Actually, what what this advertising boycott is

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is going to do. It's it's
going to kill a company. And you

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think that that and the whole world. Well, no, that those advertisers

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killed the company, and we will
document it in great detail. But there

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are those advertisers, I imagine are
going to say. They're going to say,

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we didn't kill the company. They're
going to say to tell it to

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Earth. But they're going to say
that they're going to say, Elon that

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you killed the company because you said
these things and that they were inappropriate things

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and that they didn't feel comfortable on
the platform. Right, That's that's what

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they're to say. And let's see
how Earth responds to that something. Okay,

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this then this goes back to well, we'll both make our cases,

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right, and we'll see what the
outcome is. What are the economics of

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that for you? I mean,
you have enormous resources, so you can

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actually keep this company going for a
very long time. Would you keep it

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going for a long time if there
was no advertising? I mean, if

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the company fails because of advertised boycott. It will fail because of an advertised

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boycott, and that will be what
bankrupt of the company. And that's what

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everybody on earth will know. What
do you think then, of the against

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This goes back to the idea of
trust though it I'll be gone, and

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it will be gone because of an
advertised boycott. But you recognize that some

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of those people are going to say
that they didn't feel comfortable on the platform,

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and I want I just wonder and
ask you and think about that for

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the judge. But the judge is
going to be the judge of the public.

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And you think that the public is
going to say that that Disney is

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making a mistake. Yeah, and
they're going to boycott Disney. There already

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are well, there are some that
are for lots of different reasons. But

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you think that this is going to
that you have? This goes actually the

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interesting of power and leverage. Let
the chips fall where they may, let

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the chips full where they may can. I ask why that is the approach.

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I ask it because you've been very
approached well, you've been very particular

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about the approach to Tesla. When
you think about the engineering involved in that

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the approach to SpaceX, the approach
to some of the stuff you're doing with

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AI has been very specific. Right, there's not a let the chips fall

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where they may approach to those businesses. I don't think we're focused on making

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the best products and Tells THO has
gotten to where it's gotten with no advertising

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at all. I understand that Tells
the currently sells to twice much in terms

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of electric vehicles as the rest of
electric carmakers in the United States combined.

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Tells has done more to help the
environment than all of the companies combined.

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Be fair to say that, therefore, as a leader of the company,

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I've done more for the environment than
everyone else, any single human on earth.

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How do you feel about that?
I feel about that. Yeah,

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No, I'm asking you personally how
you feel about that? Because this goes

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We're talking about power and influence,
and I'm saying I'm saying what I care

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about is the reality of goodness,
not the perception of it. And what

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I see all of the place is
people who care about looking good while doing

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evil. Fuck them. Okay,
let me ask you this because I think

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part of this, By the way, there's some people who said, look

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owning X to begin with has just
created problems that You've created so many amazing

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things that are changing our world.
And and and I know you want to

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uh make X this fabulous town square
free speech platform, but that unto itself,

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that that has created such a distraction
of all of these things. This

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is the conversation we're having. We're
not focused, or we're not not talking

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at least yet, and we will
on Tesla. You have your cyber truck

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deliveries tomorrow and everything else that you're
doing. But is there any will be

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the biggest product launch of anything by
far on Earth this year? Is there

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any part of you though? It
just says, you know what, I

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just shouldn't have done this, or
maybe I should sell it or give it

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away or do something else with the
with the X piece of it, given

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given, given the propensity for some
of the things that you do and say

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on that platform to create these these
issues. Yeah, of all the posts

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I've done on the platform, I
think there might be thirty thousand or something

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like that. Right, Once in
a while I will say something foolish,

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and I have and I would certainly
put to that comment, as you said,

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the after truth among perhaps one of
the most foolish, if not the

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most foolish thing I've ever done on
the platform, and I did do my

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best to clarify afterwards that, you
know, I certainly do not mean anything

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anti Semitic in that the nature of
the criticism was simply that the Jewish people

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have been persecuted for thousands of years. There is a natural affinity therefore for

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persecuted groups. This has led to
the funding of organizations that essentially promote any

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persecuted group or any group with the
perception of persecution. This includes radical Islamic

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groups. Everyone here has seen the
massive demonstrations for Hamas in every major city

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in the West that should be jarring. Well, a number of those organizations

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received funding from prominent people in the
Jewish community. They didn't expect that to

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happen. But if you generically,
without condition sort of fund, if you

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fund persecuted groups in general, some
of those persecuted groups unfortunately want your annihilation.

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And what I meant by that,
when I subsequently clarified, is is

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that it's unwise to fund organizations that
support groups that want your annihilation. Is

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this coming across really? Yeah?
It was. I question to you,

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though I think logically this makes a
lot of sense. Is there any part

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of you? I mean, just
tell me what happens though, when once

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all this happens. Let's say you
fund a group and that group supports the

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mass who wants you to die.
Perhaps you should not fund them, but

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you but you do, thank you, you do appreciate that when you wade

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into these very delicate waters at these
very delicate times. Yes, that it

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can create a real I mean,
as it created headlines for the past two

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weeks and economic impact. What I'm
just so curious what happened in your brain

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when you see all this happening.
I think, are you sitting there going,

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oh my god, I stepped in
and I wish I didn't do that.

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Are you saying threw them I hate
these people day after me? But

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all of that, Yeah, there's
all of that. I mean, I

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mean, look, I'm sorry for
that that tweed or post. It was

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foolish of me. Of the thirty
thousands, it might be literally the worst

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and dumbest to post that I've ever
done. And I try my best to

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clarify six raceist Sunday, But you
know, at least I think over time

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it will be obvious that, in
fact, far from being anti Semitic,

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I'm in fact philo semitic, and
all the evidence in my track record would

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support that there are people who say
crazy things on x as. You know,

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maybe you think they're crazy, maybe
they're not. The aspiration FRACS is

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to be the global town square.
Now, if you were to walk down

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to let's say Times Square, right, do you occasionally hear people saying crazy

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things? Yes, but they're not
that they don't have the megaphone, right,

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And that's that's the conundrum. No, they can only stay to the

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fifty one hundred people that are that
are sitting standing there in Times Square.

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They don't have a mega. I
mean, look, the joke I used

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to make about old Twitter was it
was like giving everyone in the psych ward

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a megaphone. So, you know, I'm aware that things can get promoted

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that are negative beyond the sort of
circle of somebody simply screaming crazy things in

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Times Square, which happens all the
time, you know, So the it's

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actually it's pretty rare for something frankly
that is hateful to be promoted. It's

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not it's not it's not that it
never happens, but it's it's fairly rare.

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I mean, I would encourage people
to look at for those that use

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the system, when you look at
the sort of the feed that you receive,

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how how often is it is it
hateful? And over time hasn't gotten

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more or less hateful? And I
would say that if you look at the

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X platform today versus a year ago, I think it is actually much better.

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I mean, what is your perponce? Are you surprised? I'm just

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curious you use this. I use
the platform religiously. I not being an

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addict you and I use it for
you, and I will I will say,

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now the problem is because I'm a
journalist, I go looking for stuff.

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Well I'm not. I'm just saying
and because I and I also think

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the algorithm for me personally because I'm
looking for stuff also is feeding the others

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things. Well, this this is
actually a challenge in that like sometimes people

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will say like why is it showing
me h, you know post from this

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person that I hate? And then
we're like, well, did you interact

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a lot with this person that you
hate? Well? Yes, well therefore

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thinks that you want to interact more
with this person that you hate. That's

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like a reasonable you know you kind
of want to have an argument tweet.

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Yeah, do you ever post,
let's say, post when you post listen,

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I'm over. If anyone cannot come
up with a better word, that

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would be great. When you post
though, but the least bad way I

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can think of his post? When
you post though? Do you are you

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trying to rile up either a base
or an audience? Do you do you?

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Do you recognize the power you have
in that? And and also,

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by the way, not just up
rile up one version of Saturday, but

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also rile down, which is to
say, as I said, there are

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people who are demonstrably anti Semitic on
the site who I get jew boy things

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and all sorts of things that come
my way. For a while I thought

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I was dosh, so they would
you know, I get it to but

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but no. But the question is
do you ever think to yourself, you

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know what, I'm going to go
online and I'm going to say these people.

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I condemn these people that are on
my site saying these things because you

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say I've condemned as sims it.
But do you ever go I said,

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I can condemn I literally I literally
posted I condemn anti Semitism in all its

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forms. That is a literal,
I believe literal post that I've made.

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I mean, I'm like, listen, if I can get out the phosaurus,

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if you you know, and we
could you know, let me ask

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you a different question. You're you're
you composed it, I'll post it.

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Okay, let me ask you this. You you're a You're on a podcast

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about a month ago, and you
said something that struck me, and it

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struck me as accurate came out of
your mouth, so hopefully it is.

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But I'm hoping to go deep on
this. Just because it came out of

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my mouth does not mean it's true. But you said, you said,

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you said, my mind is a
storm. I don't think most people would

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want to be me. They may
think they want to be me, but

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they don't know, they don't understand. What did you mean by that?

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What was what your mind being a
storm? And I think it, I

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mean I have known you for quite
some time. I think it is a

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bit of a storm. Yes,
yeah, I mean in as much as

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a whey that metaphor makes sense.
My mind is often feels like a like

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a like a very wild storm.
I mean, I have a fountain of

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ideas. I mean, I have
more ideas than I can possibly execute,

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So I have no shortage of ideas. Innovation is not the problem. Execution

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is the problem. I've got a
million ideas. I mean, I've got

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an entire design for an electric supersonic
vertical takeoff jet. But I mean,

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I just if I just can't do
that as well. I've had that for

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ten years. I know there's a
million things. Does your storm a happy

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storm? Yeah, it's not a
happy storm. Tell us about that,

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because I think that that actually,
when people try to really understand you,

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I think that there's a lot of
this comes from some other place, and

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I want to talk about that.
What do you think that is? It

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should really need like a psychiatrist catch
here or something. You know. I

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think there's some degree I was born
this way, but and then I was

320
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amplified by a difficult childhood. Frankly
so, but I can remember, even

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in happy moments when as a kid
that there's just it just feels like there's

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just a a range of forces in
my mind constantly. But now this,

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you know, productively manifests itself in
technology and building things for the most part.

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So and I think on balance,
the output has been very productive.

325
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I think the results as we you
know, discussed earlier with SpaceX, Tesla

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PayPal, which is you know,
still going today. The first yearnet company

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that I started, in fact,
the first internet company I started, it

328
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too was funded by New York Times
company Hurst Night, Writter and Remberked.

329
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We wrote some of the software for
the New York Times website and we helped

330
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bring online several hundred newspapers that previously
were only in print. Now this is

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in the nineties, which at this
point is like like a Grandpa plack.

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But basically, you know, the
nineties and internet feels like a pre Cambrian

333
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era when there were only sponges.
So anyway, so you know, I

334
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feel like a lot of productive things
have been done. And you can also

335
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look at at Tesla's being sort of
many companies in one, like our supercharging

336
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:08.119
network is if it were if the
Tells a super talking network where its own

337
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:12.000
company, it would be a fortune
five hundred company by itself, just just

338
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:21.920
the supercharging system. We also make
the seals, We build the paralylectronics in

339
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:27.119
the power train for Scratch. We
have the most innovative structural design, the

340
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:33.000
largest castings ever used. We have
the best manufacturing technology at Tesla, better

341
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manufacturing technology than companies that have been
doing it for one hundred years. So

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these these demons of the mind,
you know, for the most part,

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harnessed to productive ends. That doesn't
mean that once in a while they you

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know, go wrong. But and
this is a question, I think a

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lot of people, you know,
are always trying to figure out about not

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just you, but sometimes themselves,
Meaning, what is driving all of this?

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You're doing all of these things.
Do you think it's Do you think

348
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that you would be as successful,
whatever success is, if it wasn't being

349
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driven by some I think that there's
something you're trying to prove, either to

350
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yourself or to somebody. I don't
know. We're all trying to prove that.

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We're trying to prove to my mother. I don't know. No if

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I were describe my philosophy as a
philosophy of curiosity, I mean I did

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have this existential crisis when I was
around twelve about what's the meaning of life?

354
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Isn't it all pointless? Why not
just commit suicide? Why exist?

355
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I read the religious texts, I
read the philosophy books that well, especially

356
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:04.319
the German philosophy books made me quite
depressed. Frankly once you'd not read Schopenhauer

357
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:12.200
Nietzsche as a teenager. But then
I read Douglas Adams Hitdack Guide to the

358
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:17.160
Galaxy, which is a book and
philosophy in the form of humor. And

359
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:25.359
the point that Adams was making there
was that we don't actually know what questions

360
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to ask. That's why I said
that, you know, the answer is

361
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forty two, Like, basically,
it was a giant computer and it came

362
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up with the answer forty two.
But then to actually figure out what the

363
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question is, that's the actual hard
part. I think this is generally true

364
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:44.240
also in physics. At the point
of which you can properly frame the question

365
00:29:44.839 --> 00:29:55.599
the answer is is actually the easy
part. So my motivation then was that,

366
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well, my life is finite,
really a flash in the pan and

367
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on a galactic time scale. But
if we can expand the scope and scale

368
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of consciousness, then we are better
able to figure out what questions to ask

369
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about the answer that is the universe, and maybe we can find out the

370
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meaning of life or even what question
to what what the right question to ask

371
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is? You know, where do
we come from? Where are we going,

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Where are the aliens? Are there
aliens? You know? These these

373
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questions you know? And is there
new physics to discover? Or is this

374
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:52.480
because this is real questions about dark
matter and dark energy. And so the

375
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:59.200
purpose of SpaceX is to extend life
beyond Earth on a sustained basis, so

376
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.039
that we can at least pass one
of the Firmi great filters, which is

377
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that of being a single planet civilization. For your single planet civilization, then

378
00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:15.319
we are simply waiting around for some
extinction event, whether that is man made

379
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or natural. But if you're a
single planet civilization, eventually you will something

380
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:26.400
will happen to that planet and you
will die. If you're a multiplant civilization,

381
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.599
you will live much longer. Also, a multiplanet civilization is that's the

382
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:36.599
natural stepping stone to being a multi
stellar civilization and being out there among the

383
00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:41.400
stars. So now this I think
has two. This is not simply a

384
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:49.160
defensive motivation, but it is also
one that you know that gives meaning.

385
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:56.640
Man search for meaning. Let me
finish this philosophy point. Even though it

386
00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:01.680
may seem rather esoteric, it may
resonate for a few people. We must

387
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:07.400
get past this Firmi filter. Of
being a straight filter of being a single

388
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:13.279
planet civilization, and if we do
that, we're more likely to understand the

389
00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:17.079
nature of the universe and what questions
to ask. If you believe her in

390
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:22.960
the philosophy of curiosity, then then
I think you should support this ambition.

391
00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:30.960
And but it's more, there's being
a multipliant species is more than than simply

392
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:37.720
you know, life, life insurance
for life collectively. That's a defensive reason.

393
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:42.920
But but I think also that that
that life has to be more than

394
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:47.400
simply solving one sad problem after another. You know, there have to be

395
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:52.440
there be reasons where you wake up
in the morning and you're happy to be

396
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:58.680
alive. There have to be reasons
that you have to say, why are

397
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:05.960
you excited about the future? Like
what gives you hope? And if you

398
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:12.640
if you're if you'ren't sure, ask
your kids. And and I think the

399
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.720
idea of us being a space faring
civilization and being out there among the stars

400
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:23.240
is incredibly inspiring and exciting and something
to look forward to, and there need

401
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:28.039
to be such things in the world. Let me ask you a different question

402
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:31.720
about confidence. We were having a
conversation here earlier, but people and where

403
00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:37.519
where people get their confidence from.
Some people have great and security, other

404
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:44.640
people have great confidence. And I
was thinking about you because you have a

405
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:50.200
very interesting history where people have told
you over and over again that you're wrong.

406
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:54.960
Well sometimes they're right. Well sometimes
they are, But I would say

407
00:33:55.039 --> 00:34:00.519
that when it comes to Tesla,
when it came to SpaceX, people told

408
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:02.440
you that you were crazy, You're
out of your mind. This was never

409
00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:06.759
going to happen. This is never
going to work. And so I ask

410
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:13.599
you this, though, is now, when people say you're wrong, this

411
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.480
isn't right, do you look at
that and say, you know what?

412
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:20.599
That's like a red flag for me
because you know, I've been told so

413
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:24.639
often that I'm wrong that I know
that and I know I'm right because I've

414
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:30.000
had that experience. Or are there
people in your life when they say,

415
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:32.760
you know what, Elon, this
is not this is not right. Do

416
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:37.960
you know what I'm saying? I
mean, I think what you start trying

417
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:40.119
to say, is that to do
at this point? Think because I've been

418
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:43.800
right so many times for others I
said I'm wrong, that now I passed

419
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:46.320
believe I'm right when I in fact
I'm wrong. You did very well.

420
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:57.119
What do you think no, I'm
right, so uh yeah, No.

421
00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:04.639
Look, here's the thing. Physics
is unforgiving. Physics is unforgiving. So

422
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.760
I mean, I have, you
know, these various little sayings that I

423
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:15.159
have come up with that physics is
the law and everything else is a recommendation

424
00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:21.719
in the sense that you can break
any law made by humans, but try

425
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:25.800
breaking a law made by physics.
That's much more difficult. So if you

426
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:30.679
are wrong and persistent being wrong,
the rockets will blow up and the cars

427
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:38.960
will fail. So this is we're
not trying to figure out what flavor of

428
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:45.840
ice cream is the best flavor of
ice cream. Like if there's a thousand

429
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:50.599
things that can happen on a rocket
flight and only one of them gets the

430
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:59.199
rocket to orbit, and so being
wrong results in failure when dealing with physical

431
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.400
But that's the interesting part. So
now you've built this these great companies that

432
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:10.440
physically the physics of them are enormously
successful, so successful arguably that you have

433
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:15.159
leverage over everybody else. Right,
there's nobody else can do starlink, nobody

434
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:20.719
else can get nobody else can get
the rockets in space. Yet Amazon and

435
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:23.760
Jeff Bezos are trying, but they
haven't yet I hope he does. You

436
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:27.400
hope he does? Yeah, yeah, I mean I think you know,

437
00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:31.920
but I actually agree with with with
a lot of Jeff's motivations. I mean,

438
00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:39.480
I think you know he's so they're
put this way. If there was

439
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:43.760
a button I could press that would
delete blue argin, I wouldn't press it.

440
00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:49.880
So I think it's good that he's
spending money on making rockets too.

441
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:53.760
You know, it's just peraps you
spend more time on it, but you

442
00:36:53.800 --> 00:37:00.960
know it's up to him the the
But I should make a point here,

443
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:07.519
So nothing, nothing any of my
companies have done has been to stifle competition.

444
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:12.440
In fact, we've done the opposite. So at Tesla we have open

445
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:17.599
sourced our patents. Anyone can use
our patents for free. How many companies

446
00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:22.719
do you know who've done that?
Can you name one? I can't.

447
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:30.039
At SpaceX, we don't use patents, So I mean, she said,

448
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:34.079
once in a while, we'll file
a patent just so some patent trol doesn't

449
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:39.159
cause trouble. But we're not stopping
any we've done. We've done nothing anti

450
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:45.639
competitive. We've done nothing to stop
I always want to clarify for the audience

451
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:51.880
because some companies have done anti competitive
things. I think the strange thing,

452
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.880
the unusual thing about SpaceX and Tela
is that we've done things that have helped

453
00:37:55.920 --> 00:38:04.039
our competition. So at Tesla,
we have made our supercharger system open access.

454
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:12.559
We've made our charger technology available for
free to the other manufacturers. The

455
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:15.039
reason that no wall of garden.
We could have put a wall up,

456
00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:17.760
but instead we invited them in.
The reason I mentioned this though, is

457
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:22.400
because you've had the success in the
physical physics world, you now have these

458
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:29.039
very difficult decisions that have huge impacts
on the world that are not physical decisions

459
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:32.760
at all. They're decisions of the
mind, the decisions that you and others

460
00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:36.239
have to make. It there's a
question whether you should be making these decisions

461
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.320
at all. And I think about
it in the context of starlink. Obviously,

462
00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:44.679
there was the report about how it's
being used in Ukraine and the Russian

463
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:49.760
War. There's questions about Taiwan,
whether Taiwan should use it or will use

464
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:52.800
it. I believe they're not right
now because they're worried that at some point

465
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:57.039
maybe the Chinese will tell you that
you have to they have leverage over you,

466
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:59.559
and you're going to have to turn
that off, right, I mean,

467
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:02.280
these these are very difficult decisions,
and I'm so curious how you think

468
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:06.559
about that, and not just the
decisions, the fact that you have that

469
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:10.800
power. I just I think it's
important for they order to understand that the

470
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:14.440
reason I have these powers not because
of some anti competitive actions. It's simply

471
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:16.639
because we've executed very well. Oh, I'm not dismissing that. I think

472
00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:20.360
there's so many people, by the
way, who work huge supporters of what

473
00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:23.039
you. There are are satellites out
there, you know, but they're but

474
00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:25.719
they're not as good as yours and
the same and we can say that maybe

475
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:29.800
make the same argument of the cars
and everything else. But as a result,

476
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:34.800
that gives you enormous leverage. Right
with the exception of that, By

477
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:37.599
the way, these advertisers who aren't
on X in every other instance, everybody

478
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:44.320
needs you, I mean, nobody's
them. They use our product if it's

479
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:47.159
better than use somebody else's product,
if it's the other products better, And

480
00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:51.760
I accept that it maybe one days
also better products, Like you know,

481
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:55.760
how is it a bad thing to
make better products than other companies? Well,

482
00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:59.639
and I want to go back to
this, to the starlink piece of

483
00:39:59.719 --> 00:40:04.800
it, though, because that has
sort of a geopolitical ramification in terms of

484
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:09.280
your power and how you think about
that specific power, and then the power

485
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:13.480
that the US government might have either
over you or not over you, the

486
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:16.320
power that Chinese government might have over
you or not over you, and how

487
00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:24.400
those things get used. I mean, what are you suggesting. I'm asking

488
00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:30.559
the question around this very idea of
how these satellites are going to be used,

489
00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:35.000
whether you think that you should have
control of them, whether the government

490
00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:38.760
should have control of them. How's
the government? Well, that's there's a

491
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:43.079
lot of people who don't trust the
government exactly. But then this goes back

492
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:45.239
to the trust of you, right, I mean, like I said that,

493
00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:51.440
we're not the only company who has
communications satellites. AL satellites are just

494
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.400
much better than theirs, So it's
not like we have a monopoly. Right.

495
00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:59.599
Do you feel like anybody has a
products? It's not like do you

496
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:06.480
feel anybody has leverage over you?
I mean, I think at the end

497
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.559
of the day, if we make
bad products that people don't want to use,

498
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:20.599
then the users will vote with their
resources and do something else. Pivot

499
00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:23.679
the conversation for six. I mean
certainly me and my company's overseen by regulators.

500
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:37.119
And while you know once since SpaceX, Starlink, Tesla are overseen by

501
00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:43.519
you know, cumulatively over one hundred
regulators in actually more than that few hundred

502
00:41:43.559 --> 00:41:51.360
regulators, because you've got we're fifty
five countries. If you sum up all

503
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:58.519
the times that I had an argument
with regulators of hundreds of regulators over decades,

504
00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:02.280
it can sound really terrible, except
for they forgot to mention that there

505
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:07.280
were ten million regulations we complied with
and only five that I disagreed with.

506
00:42:08.599 --> 00:42:10.880
But it was still the five and
it sounds like, Wow, this guy's

507
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:14.559
a real maverick. I'm like,
yeah, but what about the ten million

508
00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:17.199
we complied with? Do you let
me let me one related thing on this

509
00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:23.440
and the leverage of countries and things
over you and regulators X is this free

510
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:27.920
speech platform? You do business in
China, lots of business China. That's

511
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.679
an important part of your business,
I imagine, well, not SpaceX.

512
00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:37.280
How do you think about the leverage
that the Chinese have over you? And

513
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:42.119
do they have leverage over you?
And how do you feel about some people

514
00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:45.760
say is it hypocritical for you to
be doing business in China or frankly in

515
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:51.400
other countries as it relates to X
and other things that don't follow this free

516
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:58.440
speech path that you have his spoused. The best that the platform can do

517
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:01.880
is adhere to the laws of any
given country. Do you think there's something

518
00:43:01.960 --> 00:43:05.599
more we could do than that?
I think it would be very hard.

519
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:09.400
But I just wonder, given the
sort of strong philosophical approach that you've you've

520
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:14.760
you've you've been vocal about whether you
say to yourself, you know, maybe

521
00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:20.880
I shouldn't be doing business in that
country. Well, first of well,

522
00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:27.320
Starlink and SpaceX do our no business
in China whatsoever. Tesla has one of

523
00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:32.079
four factories for vehicle factories in China, and China is you know, I

524
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:36.559
don't know a quarter of our market
or something like that, and so it's

525
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:39.039
a quarter of the market of one
company. The same is true, by

526
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:44.159
the way, of all the other
car companies. They also have something on

527
00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:49.400
that order of a quarter of their
sales in China. So if you if

528
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:53.039
that's a problem for Tela, it's
a problem for every car company. I

529
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:58.719
mean, I think one has to
be careful about not conflating the various companies

530
00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:01.480
because I can only do things that
are within the bounds of the law.

531
00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:06.599
I cannot do beyond that. My
aspiration is to do as much good as

532
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:09.199
possible and to be as productive as
possible within the bounds of what is legal.

533
00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:15.000
More than that I cannot do.
I want to pivot and talk about

534
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:16.960
AI for a moment. We had
Jinsen Wong here, who's a big fan

535
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:21.119
of yours, as you know.
Yeah, Jensen's awesome talk about talked about

536
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:24.400
bringing you the first box by the
way, with Ilia. Interestingly enough,

537
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:31.320
back in twenty sixteen, I think
there's a video of Jensen and me unpacking

538
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:38.079
the first AI computer at open AI. So I'm so curious what you think

539
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:43.639
of what's just happened over the past
two weeks while you were dealing with this

540
00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:50.360
other headline series of headlines, there
was a whole other series of headlines and

541
00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:58.440
so forth at open AI. What
did you think, Well, you founded

542
00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:02.480
it, co found it, found
it. Yeah, I'm well. The

543
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:08.320
whole arc of Opening I, frankly, is a little troubling because the reason

544
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:14.480
for starting Opening I was to create
a count counterweight to Google, Google and

545
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:20.079
deep Mind, which at the time
had two thirds of all AI talent and

546
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:23.400
basically infinite money and compute, and
there was no there's no counterweight. It

547
00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:28.280
was unipolar world. And Larry and
Paige and I used to be very close

548
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:30.239
friends, and I would stay at
his house and I would talk to Larry

549
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:37.559
until the late hours of the night
about AI safety, and I became imparent

550
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:44.599
to me that Larry did not care
about AI safety. I think perhaps the

551
00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:47.559
thing that gave it away was when
he called me a specist for being pro

552
00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:52.800
humanity, as in, you know, like a racist, but for species.

553
00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:58.360
So I'm like, wait a second, what side are you on,

554
00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:02.400
Larry? And then I'm like,
okay, listen to this guy calling me

555
00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:07.159
a specist. He doesn't care about
AI safety. We've got to have some

556
00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:14.960
counterpoint here, because this seems like
we could be this is this is no

557
00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:19.519
good. So open I was actually
started and it was meant to be open

558
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:24.679
source. I named it open AI
after open source. It is in fact

559
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:30.000
closed source super closes it should be
it should be renamed super closed source for

560
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:38.199
maximum profit AI. So because this
is what it actually is, I mean,

561
00:46:38.280 --> 00:46:43.119
fate loves irony. I mean,
in fact, a friend of mine

562
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:46.360
has this says like the way to
predict outcomes, is the most ironic outcome

563
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:51.480
is the most It's like this oukhomes
Razor, like the simplest sort of explanation

564
00:46:51.559 --> 00:46:54.840
is most likely. And my friend
Jonah's views that the most ironic outcome is

565
00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:59.599
the most likely. And that's what's
happened with open AI. It's gone from

566
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:06.599
an open source foundation of five one, two three to suddenly it's like a

567
00:47:06.679 --> 00:47:10.119
ninety billion dollar full profit corporation with
closed source. So I don't know how

568
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:15.679
you go from here to there,
but that seems like a I don't know

569
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:20.320
how you get I don't know if
is this legal. It's like, so

570
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:23.719
as you saw Sam Waltman get housted
by somebody you know, Ilia, and

571
00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:27.880
Ilia was somebody who was a friend
of yours. Yes, you brought him

572
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:31.800
there. Your relationship with Larry Page
effectively broke down over you recruiting him away.

573
00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:36.400
I think that's correct. That was
the fact that was the Larry refused

574
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:40.000
to be present to me after I
recruited Elia. And so here's Ilia apparently

575
00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:45.519
saying something is very wrong. I
think we should be concerned about this because

576
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:49.440
I think Ilia actually has a strong
moral compass. He thinks about it,

577
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:54.639
you know, he really sweats it
over questions of what is right and if

578
00:47:54.679 --> 00:48:02.039
Ilia felt strongly enough to want to
you know, fire Sam, Well,

579
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:07.079
I think the world should know what
was that reason. Have you talked to

580
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:09.920
him? I've reached out, but
he doesn't want to talk to anyone.

581
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:14.559
Have you talked to other people behind
the scenes? Is this all happening?

582
00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:22.079
I've talked to a lot of people
as nobody. I have not found anyone

583
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:27.519
who knows. Why have you?
I think we are all still trying to

584
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.519
find out. I mean, look, one of two things. Either it

585
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:34.760
was a serious thing and we should
know what it is, or it was

586
00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:37.679
not a serious thing and then the
Portraite resign. What do you think of

587
00:48:37.719 --> 00:48:50.519
Sam Altman? I have mixed feelings
about Sam. I do you know the

588
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:59.960
ring of power? You know can
corrupt and here is the ring of power?

589
00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:07.599
Are so you know? I don't
know. I think I want to

590
00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:10.960
know why Eliot felt so strongly as
the fire Sam. This sounds like a

591
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.559
serious thing. I don't think it
was trivial, and I'm quite concerned that

592
00:49:19.159 --> 00:49:22.679
that there's some you know, dangerous
element of AI that they've they've discovered.

593
00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:30.000
Yes, you think they've discovered something
that'll be my guess. Where are you

594
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:36.519
with your own AI efforts relative to
where you think open AI is, where

595
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:45.840
you think Google is, where you
think the others are, I mean on

596
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:51.559
the AI front them in somewhat of
a quandary here, because I've thought AI

597
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:54.360
could be something that would change the
world in a significant way since I was

598
00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:59.079
in college, I mean like thirty
years ago. But the reason I didn't

599
00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:06.199
bull AI right from the get go
was because I was uncertain about which which

600
00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:09.480
edge of the double edged sword would
be sharper the good edge of the bad

601
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:15.920
edge, So I held off on
during anything on a I could have created.

602
00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:19.960
I think the leading a company kind
of opening eye actually kind of is

603
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:25.039
that because I was just uncertain,
if you make this magic genie, what

604
00:50:25.079 --> 00:50:32.960
will happen? You know? Whereas
I think building sustainable energy technology is much

605
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:37.679
more of a single edged sword,
that is, single edged good, making

606
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:45.639
like multiplanetary I think single edged good, you know, Starling mostly single edged

607
00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:50.440
good. I mean giving people better
connectivity to people that you know don't don't

608
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:54.960
have connectivity or too expensive. I
think it's very you know, very much

609
00:50:55.000 --> 00:51:00.599
a good thing. Starling was instrumental, by the way, and halting the

610
00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:06.840
Russian advance, and the Ukrainians said, so, so you know, I

611
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:14.519
think there's But with AI, you've
got the magic gene problem. You may

612
00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:20.239
think you want a magic Jenny,
but one season that genie's out of the

613
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:23.480
bottle. It's hard to say what
happens. How far are we away from

614
00:51:23.519 --> 00:51:27.320
that genie being out of the bottle? You think we think it's already out,

615
00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:35.400
when the genie is certainly poking its
heat out. AGI the idea of

616
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:38.199
artificial general intelligence, given what you
now are working on yourself, and you

617
00:51:38.360 --> 00:51:44.639
know how easier hard it is to
train to create the inferences to create the

618
00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:47.559
weights. I hope I'm not getting
too far in the weeds of just how

619
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:52.559
this works, but those are the
basics behind the software end of this.

620
00:51:53.960 --> 00:51:58.440
It's funny, you know, all
these weights, they're just basically a number

621
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:01.360
is in a common separated value file, and that's our digital god, a

622
00:52:01.480 --> 00:52:12.760
CESP file. Not that funny,
but that's kind of literally what it is.

623
00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:16.599
So I think it's coming pretty fast, you know, is that?

624
00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:22.199
I mean you famously have admitted to
overstating how quickly things will happen, But

625
00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:30.679
how quickly do you think this will
happen. If you say smarter than the

626
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:37.440
smartest human at anything, Yep,
it may not be been quite smarter than

627
00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:43.960
all humans old machine augmented humans,
you know, because we able got computers

628
00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:49.159
and stuff as a hire bar.
But you say smarter than any you know,

629
00:52:49.719 --> 00:52:52.320
you can write as good a novel
as say J. K. Rowling,

630
00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:58.559
or discover new physics or invent new
technology. I would say that we

631
00:52:58.639 --> 00:53:01.400
are less than three years from that
point. Let me ask you a question

632
00:53:01.480 --> 00:53:07.239
about XAI and what you're doing.
And because there's an interesting thing that's different.

633
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:12.000
I think about what you have relatives
to some of the others which you

634
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:15.719
have data, you have information,
You have all of the stuff that everybody

635
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:22.159
in here has put on the platform
to sort through. And I don't know

636
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:35.599
if everybody realized that initially. What
is the value of that? Yeah,

637
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:39.679
I mean data is very important.
You could say that data is probably more

638
00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:45.840
viable than gold. But then maybe
you have actually maybe you have more.

639
00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:50.519
Maybe you have the gold in x
in a different way in a way again

640
00:53:50.840 --> 00:53:57.960
that I don't know if the public
appreciates what that means. Yes, excess

641
00:53:58.039 --> 00:54:05.320
the that might be the single source
of data. I mean it is they're

642
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:09.679
more you know, people links that
go to feel click on, more links

643
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:14.679
to X than anything else on Earth. As sometimes people think Facebook or Instagram

644
00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:16.960
is a bigger thing, but actually
there are more links to X than anything

645
00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:20.599
you can there's public information. You
can google it. Okay, let me

646
00:54:20.599 --> 00:54:24.960
ask you a So it is.
It is where you would find what is

647
00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:29.599
happening right now on Earth at any
given point in time. The whole open

648
00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:35.519
Air drama played out in fact on
the X platform, so it is one

649
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:38.280
of the it's not there. You
know. Google certainly has a massive amount

650
00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:45.119
of data, so does Microsoft.
So it's not like but it is one

651
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:51.920
of the best sources of data.
Can ask you an interesting IP issue,

652
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:54.960
which I think is actually something I
can say as somebody who's in the creator

653
00:54:55.039 --> 00:55:00.400
business and journalistic business and whatnot or
care about copyright. Right. So,

654
00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:06.559
one of the things about training on
data has been this idea that you're not

655
00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:10.039
going to train or these things are
not being trained on people's copyrighted information.

656
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:14.760
Historically that's been the concept. Yeah, that's a huge lie. Say that.

657
00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:20.159
Again, these as are all trained
on copyrighted data obviously, so you

658
00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:23.639
think it's a lie when when open
AI says that this is not None of

659
00:55:23.679 --> 00:55:28.360
these guys say they're training on copyrighted
dat. That's a lie. It's a

660
00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:35.039
lie, straight up lie. Okay, it's been trained on appropriated data.

661
00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:38.840
Okay. So the second question,
which is all of the people who have

662
00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:45.239
been uploading, all of the people
who have been uploading articles, the best

663
00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:52.000
quotes from different articles, videos,
two X, all of that can be

664
00:55:52.159 --> 00:55:57.679
trained on. And it's interesting because
people put all of that there, and

665
00:55:57.880 --> 00:56:01.159
those quotes have historically considered fair use. Right, people are putting those quotes

666
00:56:01.239 --> 00:56:05.519
up there and individually on a fair
use basis, you'd say, okay,

667
00:56:05.599 --> 00:56:08.400
that makes sense. But now there
are people who do threads. And by

668
00:56:08.440 --> 00:56:12.679
the way, there may be multiple
people who've done you know, an article

669
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:15.360
that has a thousand words. Technically
all thousand words could have made it onto

670
00:56:15.559 --> 00:56:22.760
X somehow and effectively. Now you
have this remarkable repository. And I wonder

671
00:56:22.519 --> 00:56:27.280
how you think about that again,
and how you think the creative community and

672
00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:35.079
those who were the original IP owners
should think about that. I don't know,

673
00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:37.760
except to say that by the time
these lawsuits are decided, we'll have

674
00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:43.679
digital God. So that's digital God. At that point, these lawsuits won't

675
00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:49.039
be decided before on a timeframe that
is relevant. Is that a good thing

676
00:56:49.159 --> 00:56:55.039
or a bad thing? I think
we live, you know, there's that

677
00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:00.519
I don't know if it's actually a
real Chines saying or not, but maybe

678
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:08.159
live an interesting times. It's apparently
not a good thing, but I would

679
00:57:08.199 --> 00:57:12.719
prefer to personally, I would prefer
to live in interesting times, and we

680
00:57:13.159 --> 00:57:19.440
live in the most interesting of times. I think for a while I was

681
00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:23.519
like really getting demotivated and losing sleep
over the sort of the threat of AI

682
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:28.239
danger, And then I finally sort
of became fatalistic about it and said,

683
00:57:28.280 --> 00:57:36.119
well, even if I knew it
was annihilation, was certain, would I

684
00:57:36.199 --> 00:57:39.079
choose to be alive at that time
or not? And I said, I

685
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:43.440
probably would have choose to be alive
at that time because it's the most interesting

686
00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:45.960
thing, even if there's nothing I
could do about it. So then,

687
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:52.679
you know, then basically sort of
a fatalistic resignation helped me sleep at night

688
00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:57.760
because I was having trouble sleeping at
night because of AI danger. Now what

689
00:57:57.880 --> 00:58:01.320
to do about it? I mean, I've been the biggest, the one

690
00:58:01.360 --> 00:58:06.880
banging the drama the hardest, by
far, the longest or least one of

691
00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:14.800
longest for AI danger and these regulatory
things that are happening. The single biggest

692
00:58:14.800 --> 00:58:16.880
reason that happening is because of me. We think we're ever going to get

693
00:58:16.880 --> 00:58:20.480
their arms around it. We talked
to the Vice President this afternoon. She

694
00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:22.840
said she wants to regulate it.
People can try to regulate social media for

695
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:29.760
years and have done nothing effectively.
Well, there's there's regulation around anything which

696
00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:34.239
is like a physical danger, a
danger to the public. So like cars

697
00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:38.960
are heavily regulated, communications are heavily
regulated, rockets and aircraft are heavily regulated.

698
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:45.960
The general will us be about regulation
is that when something is a danger

699
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:51.920
to the public, that there needs
to be some government oversight. So I

700
00:58:52.039 --> 00:58:57.360
think, in my view, AI
is more dangerous than nuclear bombs, which

701
00:58:57.719 --> 00:59:00.119
we regulate. Nuclear bombs, you
can't just go make it your clear in

702
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:07.000
your backyard. I think we should
have some kind of regulation with AI.

703
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:13.239
Now, this tends to cause the
AI accelerations to get up in arms because

704
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:20.079
they think AI is sort of heaven
basically, but you typically don't like regulation.

705
00:59:20.239 --> 00:59:22.280
You've pushed back on regulators for the
most party in the world of Tesla,

706
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:27.800
and so many instances where we read
articles about you pushing back on the

707
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:30.239
regulators. I'm so curious why in
this instances now you own one of these

708
00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:39.800
businesses. As I said a moment
ago, one should not take what is

709
00:59:39.880 --> 00:59:46.400
viewed in the media as being the
whole picture. There are literally hundreds like

710
00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:52.559
this is not an exaggeration. So
there are probably one hundred million regulations that

711
00:59:52.960 --> 01:00:00.360
my companies comply with, and they're
probably five that we don't. And if

712
01:00:00.760 --> 01:00:02.760
if we disagree with some of those
regulations, it's because we think the regulation

713
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:07.920
that is meant to do good doesn't
actually do good. But that is not

714
01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:14.119
the applying regulations. But the question
if there are laws and rules, whether

715
01:00:14.199 --> 01:00:16.480
the idea is that you're making the
decision that the law and the rule shouldn't

716
01:00:16.480 --> 01:00:19.960
be the law on the rule,
and then right, isn't I'm saying you're

717
01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:23.360
fundamentally mistaken, and you should be
obvious that you're mistaken. My companies,

718
01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:29.840
UH automotive is heavily regulated. We
would not be allowed to put cars on

719
01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:32.079
the road if we did not comply
with this vast body of regulation. Now

720
01:00:32.159 --> 01:00:37.519
you could you could fill up a
stage with literally, you know, six

721
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:44.679
foot high with the regulations that you
have to comply with to make a car

722
01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:50.119
would make you could have a room
full of phone books. That's how many.

723
01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:52.239
That's how big the regulations are.
And if you don't comply with all

724
01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.880
of those, you can't sell the
car. And if we don't comply with

725
01:00:55.920 --> 01:01:00.800
all the regulations for rockets or for
starlingk they shot a stack out. So,

726
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:05.400
in fact, I am incredibly compliant
with regulations. Now, once in

727
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:08.000
a while, there'll be something that
I disagree with. The reason I would

728
01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:12.639
disagree with this is because I think
the regulation in that particular case, in

729
01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:15.719
that rare case, does not serve
the public good, and therefore I think

730
01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:19.760
it is my obligation to object to
a regulation that is meant to serve the

731
01:01:19.760 --> 01:01:22.360
public good. If it doesn't,
that's the only time I object, not

732
01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:28.159
because I seek to object. In
fact, i'm incredibly rule following. Let

733
01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:30.920
me ask you a separate question is
social media related question. We've been talking

734
01:01:30.920 --> 01:01:37.079
about TikTok today ahead of the election. TikTok is what do you think of

735
01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:45.719
TikTok? Do you think it's a
national security threat? I don't use TikTok

736
01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:53.119
vidin you don't. I don't personally
use it, but for people that for

737
01:01:53.559 --> 01:02:00.519
teenagers and people in their twenties,
they seem almost religiously addicted to TikTok.

738
01:02:01.639 --> 01:02:12.000
So people, we'll watch TikTok for
like two hours a day. I stopped

739
01:02:12.039 --> 01:02:15.880
using TikTok when I felt the AI
probing my mind and I don't it made

740
01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:27.079
me uncomfortable, so I stopped using
it. And in terms of anti smitty

741
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:30.679
content, I mean, TikTok is
rife with that. It has the most

742
01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:35.320
viral anti Smittic content by far.
But do you think the Chinese government is

743
01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:40.079
using it to manipulate the minds of
Americans? No? Is that something that

744
01:02:40.159 --> 01:02:44.000
you think we should worry about.
I mean, you have different states that

745
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:45.920
are trying to ban it. I
don't think this is some Chinese government plot,

746
01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:54.800
but it is. The TikTok algorithm
is entirely AI powered, so it

747
01:02:55.000 --> 01:03:01.320
is really just trying to find the
most viral thing possible. But it's what

748
01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:06.280
is going to keep you glued to
the screen. That's it. Now.

749
01:03:07.480 --> 01:03:13.119
The on sher numbers, there are
on the order of two billion Muslims in

750
01:03:13.119 --> 01:03:19.960
the world, and I think you
know much smaller number of Jewish people for

751
01:03:20.119 --> 01:03:23.760
twenty million something, many orders of
magnitude few are so if you just look

752
01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:31.280
at content production just on sher numbers
basis, this is going to be overwhelmingly

753
01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:35.960
anti Semitic. Let me ask you
a number. Let me ask your political

754
01:03:36.039 --> 01:03:38.480
question. And I've been trying to
square this one in my head for a

755
01:03:38.519 --> 01:03:44.239
long time. Yeah, in the
last two or three years, you have

756
01:03:44.480 --> 01:03:49.679
moved decidedly to the right, I
think have I Well, we can discuss

757
01:03:49.719 --> 01:03:58.920
this. I think that you have
been espousing and promoting a number of Republican

758
01:03:59.000 --> 01:04:02.400
candidates and others. You've been very
frustrated with the Biden administration over I think

759
01:04:02.519 --> 01:04:10.960
unions and feeling like they did not
respect what you've created. Well, I

760
01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:17.079
mean without any doing nothing to provoke
the Biden administration. They held an electric

761
01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:20.679
vehicle summit at the White House and
specifically refused to let Tesla attend. This

762
01:04:20.800 --> 01:04:25.920
was in the first six months of
the administration, and we required, like,

763
01:04:26.119 --> 01:04:29.599
we literally make more electric cars than
everyone else combined. Why are we

764
01:04:29.679 --> 01:04:34.239
not allowed? Why are you only
letting your for GM, Chrysler and UAW

765
01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:40.079
and you're specifically disallowing us from the
ev summit at the White House. We've

766
01:04:40.119 --> 01:04:44.760
done nothing to provoke them. Then, Biden went on to add insult injury

767
01:04:45.519 --> 01:04:48.639
and publicly said that GM was leading
the electric car revolution. This was in

768
01:04:48.719 --> 01:04:53.960
the same quarter that Tesla made three
hundred thousand electric cars and GM made twenty

769
01:04:54.000 --> 01:05:00.760
six Does that seem fair to you? So tell me this thing. It

770
01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:05.519
doesn't seem fair. And I've asked
it repeatedly and you've probably seen it.

771
01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:10.920
Although I had a great relationship with
Obama, so this is not a but

772
01:05:11.440 --> 01:05:15.440
then there's for Obama seven hours for
six I certain line for six hours to

773
01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:18.400
shake Obama's head. Okay, okay, So let me just ask on a

774
01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:23.119
personal level. I can see it
in your face. This this hurt you

775
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:27.239
personally, and I hurt the company
too, and it was an insult to

776
01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:32.199
you. Know, Tesla has one
hundred and forty thousand employees, okay,

777
01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:35.320
of the half of them are in
the United States. Tells us created more

778
01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:41.079
manufacturing jobs than everyone else combined.
Soon, I asked, this thing.

779
01:05:42.280 --> 01:05:45.119
You've devoted at least the last close
to twenty years of your life, if

780
01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:50.400
not more, to the climate climate
change, trying to get Tesla off the

781
01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:55.119
ground in part to improve climate You
talked about that. Yeah, a real

782
01:05:55.280 --> 01:06:00.440
right wing motive. Is repeatedly got
far right. If I stand that,

783
01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:05.719
and then it's guys reverse psychology next
level. Well no, but so here's

784
01:06:05.760 --> 01:06:11.039
then the question, which is,
how do you square the support that you

785
01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:16.559
have given. I believe you were
at a fundraiser for Viva Gramaswami, for

786
01:06:16.599 --> 01:06:23.960
example, who says that the climate
climate issue is a hoax. Right,

787
01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:27.199
I disagree with him on that.
I but I would think that that would

788
01:06:27.199 --> 01:06:30.000
be such a singular issue for you. I would think that the climate issue

789
01:06:30.079 --> 01:06:35.119
is such a singular issue for you
that actually it would disqualify almost anybody who

790
01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:40.920
didn't take that issue seriously. Well, I haven't endorsed anyone for president.

791
01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:45.079
I mean I wanted to hear what
Vic had to say because I think some

792
01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:47.960
of his things are That's some of
the things he says I think are pretty

793
01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:54.199
solid. You know, he is
concerned about government over each about government control

794
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:59.320
of information. I mean, the
degree to which old Twitter was basically a

795
01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:04.199
soft puppet of the government was ridiculous. So, you know, it seems

796
01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:10.639
to me that there's a very severe
violation of the First Amendment in terms of

797
01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:14.199
how much a government control, how
much control the government had of an old

798
01:07:14.199 --> 01:07:18.519
Twitter and it no longer does,
so you know, there's a reason for

799
01:07:18.599 --> 01:07:23.280
the First Amendment. The reason for
the First Amendment, for the freedom of

800
01:07:23.320 --> 01:07:28.239
speech is because the people that immigrated
this country came from a place is where

801
01:07:28.559 --> 01:07:30.639
there was not freedom of speech,
and they were like, you know what,

802
01:07:31.400 --> 01:07:36.039
we've got to make sure that that's
constitutional because where they came from,

803
01:07:36.119 --> 01:07:40.679
if they said something that would be
put in prison, whether it be you

804
01:07:40.760 --> 01:07:45.920
know, something bad, what happened
to them. So and freedom of speech

805
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:50.079
you have to say when is it
relevant. It's only relevant when when someone

806
01:07:50.159 --> 01:07:55.519
you don't like can say something you
don't like or it has no meaning.

807
01:07:57.119 --> 01:08:01.760
And as soon as you sort of, you know, throw in the towel

808
01:08:02.199 --> 01:08:06.719
and concede to censorship, it is
only amount of time before someone censors you.

809
01:08:08.760 --> 01:08:13.360
And that is why we have the
First Amendment. Could you see yourself

810
01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:17.279
voting for President Biden if it's if
they Biden Trump election, for example,

811
01:08:23.359 --> 01:08:27.920
I think I would not vote for
Biden. You'd vote for Trump. I'm

812
01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:33.560
not saying i'd vote for Trump,
but I mean this is definitely a difficult

813
01:08:33.640 --> 01:08:38.199
choice. Yeah, you know,
we would you would you vote for Nicki

814
01:08:38.239 --> 01:08:44.199
Haley? Nicki Haley, by the
way, once all social media names to

815
01:08:44.279 --> 01:08:46.560
be exposed as you know, no, I think that's outrageous. Yeah,

816
01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:51.199
no, I'm not going to vote
for some pros and censorship candidate, Like

817
01:08:51.279 --> 01:08:55.600
I said, I mean, I
think these you have to you have to,

818
01:08:57.319 --> 01:09:00.920
you know, consider that there is
a lot of wisdom and these amendments,

819
01:09:01.479 --> 01:09:06.479
you know, I mean the Constitution
and uh, you know a lot

820
01:09:06.479 --> 01:09:10.880
of these a lot of things that
we take for granted here in the United

821
01:09:10.920 --> 01:09:16.399
States that don't even exist in Canada. There's not no constitucial rights to freedom

822
01:09:16.439 --> 01:09:21.159
of speech in Canada, so you
know so, and there's no Miranda rights

823
01:09:21.199 --> 01:09:24.279
in Canada. People like think like
you know, you have the right to

824
01:09:24.520 --> 01:09:30.600
romancean you don't actually in Canada,
so you know have Canadian I can say

825
01:09:30.680 --> 01:09:34.600
these things both, but you know
so, so like you just got,

826
01:09:35.880 --> 01:09:45.079
the freedom of speech is incredibly important
even when people say and like I said,

827
01:09:45.079 --> 01:09:48.800
it's it's actually especially important. In
fact, it is only relevant when

828
01:09:49.880 --> 01:09:54.119
people you don't like can say things
you don't like. And do you think

829
01:09:54.199 --> 01:09:57.720
right now as the meaningless do you
think right now? The Republican candidates or

830
01:09:57.720 --> 01:10:00.439
the Democrats are more inclined. I
mean, this is where you go to

831
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:05.560
I assume to to woke an anti
woke in the mind virus issue that you've

832
01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:12.680
talked about, which party do you
think is more pro freedom of speech?

833
01:10:12.760 --> 01:10:15.119
Given all the things you've seen,
we also see you know, desantus,

834
01:10:15.720 --> 01:10:19.520
uh, you know, preventing people
from reading certain things. Maybe you maybe

835
01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:27.239
you think that's that's that's correct.
No, Look, we actually are in

836
01:10:27.279 --> 01:10:34.199
an odd situation here where on balance
the Democrats appear to be more pro spensor

837
01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:39.319
censorship than the Republicans. And that
used to be the opposite. It used

838
01:10:39.319 --> 01:10:45.720
to be, you know, the
left position was freedom of speech, you

839
01:10:45.800 --> 01:10:51.840
know, ugly at one point the
ACL you even defended the right of someone

840
01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:55.319
to claim that they were Nazi or
something like that, you know, so

841
01:10:55.800 --> 01:10:59.920
like they were there really were,
Like the left was free of us.

842
01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:05.279
Each is fundamental, and I mean, my perception, perhaps it is inaccurate,

843
01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:13.520
is that the pro censorship is more
on the left than the right.

844
01:11:14.880 --> 01:11:17.920
We certainly get more complaints from the
left than the right that way. So,

845
01:11:20.840 --> 01:11:26.039
but my aspiration for the X platform
is that it is the best source

846
01:11:26.079 --> 01:11:30.640
of truth, well the least inaccurate
source of truth. And well, you

847
01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:32.279
know, I don't know if people
are believing or not. But I think

848
01:11:32.920 --> 01:11:38.119
honesty is the best policy, and
I think that the truth will win over

849
01:11:38.199 --> 01:11:43.279
time and the you know, We've
got this great system and it's getting better

850
01:11:43.399 --> 01:11:49.199
called community notes, which is fantastic. I think it correcting falsehoods or adding

851
01:11:49.279 --> 01:11:54.840
context. In fact, we make
a point of not removing anything, but

852
01:11:55.000 --> 01:11:59.680
only adding context. Now that context
could include that this is completely false and

853
01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:03.439
here's why. And no one is
immune to this. I'm not immune to

854
01:12:03.520 --> 01:12:06.880
it. Advertisers are not immune to
it. In fact, we've had community

855
01:12:06.920 --> 01:12:12.279
notes, which has caused us some
loss in advertising, speaking of lots of

856
01:12:12.319 --> 01:12:18.760
advertising revenue. If a community note, if this false advertising, the community

857
01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:26.479
note will say this is false and
here is why. I mean, there's

858
01:12:26.520 --> 01:12:29.399
one specific example that is public knowledge, so I'll mention it, which is

859
01:12:29.720 --> 01:12:33.039
at one point, Uber had this
ad which said earned like a boss,

860
01:12:34.079 --> 01:12:38.479
and it was community noted if by
a boss you mean twelve dollars and forty

861
01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:45.600
seven cents an hour. This did
cause at least a temporary suspension of advertising

862
01:12:45.680 --> 01:12:47.239
from Uber. I got to ask
you a question that might make everybody in

863
01:12:47.239 --> 01:12:50.399
the room got uncomfortable or not uncomfortable. It goes to the free speech issue

864
01:12:51.039 --> 01:12:56.000
the New York Times company and the
New York Times newspaper. It appeared over

865
01:12:56.039 --> 01:13:00.760
the summer to be throttled. What
did the New York Times? Well,

866
01:13:01.119 --> 01:13:06.840
we do require that that everyone has
to buy a subscription, and we don't

867
01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:11.680
make exceptions for anyone. And I
think, if I want the New York

868
01:13:11.760 --> 01:13:14.760
Times, I have to pay for
a subscription, and they don't give me

869
01:13:14.800 --> 01:13:17.439
a free subscription. So I'm not
going to give them a free subscription.

870
01:13:17.560 --> 01:13:21.000
But were you But were you throttling
the New York Times relative to other news

871
01:13:21.079 --> 01:13:24.960
organizations, relative to everybody else?
Was it was? It? Was it

872
01:13:25.039 --> 01:13:30.720
specific to the to the Times,
they didn't buy a subscription only costs like

873
01:13:30.720 --> 01:13:33.760
a thousand dollars a month. So
if they just do that, then then

874
01:13:33.840 --> 01:13:39.720
they're back in back in the settle. But but but you are saying that

875
01:13:39.800 --> 01:13:42.479
it was throttled. You know what
I'm saying. I mean, was there

876
01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:45.319
a conversation that you had with somebody
you said, look, you know,

877
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:48.279
I'm unhappy with the Times. They
should either be buying the subscription or I

878
01:13:48.319 --> 01:13:54.680
don't like their content or whatever whatever. Any organization that refuses to buy a

879
01:13:54.720 --> 01:14:00.760
subscription is not going to be recommended. But then what does that say about

880
01:14:00.800 --> 01:14:06.279
free speech? And what we'll say
about amplifying voices. It costs a little

881
01:14:06.319 --> 01:14:12.880
bit, right, But that's it. But that's an interesting you know,

882
01:14:13.039 --> 01:14:18.039
it's it's like an South Park when
they say, you know, freedom isn't

883
01:14:18.039 --> 01:14:23.479
free. It costs a bucko five
or whatever. So but it's pretty cheap.

884
01:14:23.720 --> 01:14:27.960
Okay, it's low cost, low
cost freedom. I got a couple

885
01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:32.640
more questions for you. You're heading
back to Texas after this to launch the

886
01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:36.439
styber truck. Yeah, it's going
to be a big launch. But I

887
01:14:36.520 --> 01:14:42.319
wanted to ask you right now more
broadly, just about the car business and

888
01:14:42.439 --> 01:14:47.399
what you see actually happening, and
specifically, the government put in place lots

889
01:14:47.439 --> 01:14:51.159
of policies, as you know,
to try to encourage more evs. And

890
01:14:51.199 --> 01:14:55.680
one of the things that's happened uniquely
is you have now a lot of car

891
01:14:55.800 --> 01:15:00.079
companies saying, actually, this is
too ambitious for us, these plans or

892
01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:01.920
too ambitious four thousand dealers. I
don't know if you saw just yesterday sent

893
01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:05.560
the letter of the White House saying
this has gone too far. You're going

894
01:15:05.600 --> 01:15:12.640
too far. You had this ev
it was this is going too fast,

895
01:15:13.199 --> 01:15:17.279
too far, and that there's not
enough demand. Underneath all this is his

896
01:15:17.399 --> 01:15:20.920
idea that maybe there's not enough demand
for evs, that the American public has

897
01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:25.399
not bought into the I mean they
bought it into with your company, but

898
01:15:25.479 --> 01:15:28.680
they haven't bought into it broadly enough. Well, I think if you make

899
01:15:28.720 --> 01:15:30.159
a compelling electric car, people will
buy it, no question about it.

900
01:15:31.560 --> 01:15:36.079
I mean electric car sales in China
are gigantic. That's my father the biggest

901
01:15:36.119 --> 01:15:40.720
category, right, and I think
that would be the case, you know,

902
01:15:42.800 --> 01:15:45.159
I mean it's worth noting. Okay, So the probably the best reputation

903
01:15:45.279 --> 01:15:49.840
of that is that the Tesla model
why will be the best selling car of

904
01:15:50.039 --> 01:15:57.880
any kind on Earth this year of
any kind, gasoline or otherwise. Is

905
01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:02.359
there another car company that you think
doing a good job with these? I

906
01:16:02.439 --> 01:16:05.800
mean, I think the Chinese clock
companies are extremely competitive. By far,

907
01:16:05.880 --> 01:16:13.640
our toughest competition is in China.
So I mean there's there's a lot of

908
01:16:13.880 --> 01:16:17.640
people who out there think that the
top ten clock companies is going to be

909
01:16:17.680 --> 01:16:21.399
Tesla followed by nine Chinese clock companies. I think they might not be wrong.

910
01:16:23.479 --> 01:16:29.239
So China is super good at manufacturing, and the work ethic is incredible.

911
01:16:29.800 --> 01:16:35.920
So you know, like, if
we consider different leagues of competitiveness at

912
01:16:35.960 --> 01:16:41.399
Tesla, we consider the Chinese League
to be the most competitive. And by

913
01:16:41.399 --> 01:16:45.039
the way, we do very well
in China because our China team is the

914
01:16:45.039 --> 01:16:48.239
best China. How worried are you
that the unionized unionization effort that just took

915
01:16:48.279 --> 01:16:55.600
place at well, I shouldn't say
effort, but the new the new wages

916
01:16:55.640 --> 01:17:00.359
and the like at GM and FORD
are that they're coming for you. They

917
01:17:00.399 --> 01:17:02.600
are coming for you. What is
that going to mean to you in your

918
01:17:02.640 --> 01:17:08.000
business? Well, I mean,
I think it's generally not good to have

919
01:17:08.079 --> 01:17:15.079
an adversarial relationship between people on the
line, you know, one group at

920
01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:18.479
the company and another group. In
fact, I mean I disagree with the

921
01:17:18.560 --> 01:17:23.079
idea of unions, but perhaps for
a reason that is different than people may

922
01:17:23.079 --> 01:17:26.560
expect, which is I just don't
like anything which creates kind of a lords

923
01:17:26.600 --> 01:17:30.439
and peasants sort of thing, And
I think the unions naturally try to create

924
01:17:31.920 --> 01:17:39.520
negativity in a company and create a
sort of lords and peasants situation. There

925
01:17:39.520 --> 01:17:44.159
are many people at Tesla who have
gone from working on the line to being

926
01:17:44.319 --> 01:17:46.800
in senior management. There is no
lords and peasants. Everyone eats at the

927
01:17:46.840 --> 01:17:50.119
same table, everyone parks in the
same talking lot. You know, at

928
01:17:50.199 --> 01:17:55.960
GM there's a special elevator for only
for senior executives. We have no such

929
01:17:56.000 --> 01:18:00.760
thing as Tesla. You know the
things that I actually know the people on

930
01:18:00.880 --> 01:18:03.960
the line because I worked on the
line, and I walked the line,

931
01:18:04.239 --> 01:18:11.399
and I stepped in the factory and
I worked beside them, so I'm no

932
01:18:11.479 --> 01:18:17.720
stranger to them. And actually many
times where I've said, well, can't

933
01:18:17.760 --> 01:18:20.800
we just hold a union vote,
but apparently a company is not allowed to

934
01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:25.520
hold a union vote, so it
has to be somehow cull foral but the

935
01:18:25.600 --> 01:18:28.520
unions can't do it. So I
said, well, let's just hold a

936
01:18:28.560 --> 01:18:34.399
vote and see what happens. The
actual problem is the opposite. It's not

937
01:18:34.479 --> 01:18:40.840
that people are trapped at Tesla building
cars. The challenges is how do we

938
01:18:41.399 --> 01:18:46.159
retain great people to do the hard
work of building cars when they have like

939
01:18:46.359 --> 01:18:50.560
six other opportunities that they can do
that are easier. That's the actual difficulty

940
01:18:51.239 --> 01:18:57.600
is that building cars is hard work
and there are much easier jobs. And

941
01:18:57.680 --> 01:19:00.560
I just want to say that I'm
incredibly you should have of those who wove

942
01:19:00.680 --> 01:19:09.840
cars and they know it, you
know, So there's there's I don't know,

943
01:19:09.960 --> 01:19:12.960
maybe there will be unionized if if
if I say, like if Tesla

944
01:19:12.960 --> 01:19:15.800
gets unionized, will be because we
deserve it and we failed in some way.

945
01:19:17.439 --> 01:19:23.159
But we certainly try hard to,
you know, ensure the prosperity of

946
01:19:23.239 --> 01:19:29.840
everyone. We give everyone stock options. We've we've made many people who are

947
01:19:29.920 --> 01:19:31.880
just working the line who didn't even
know what stocks were. We've made the

948
01:19:31.960 --> 01:19:36.520
millionaires. So we're going to run
on time. Final A couple of quick

949
01:19:36.560 --> 01:19:43.800
quick questions. When do you have
the time to tweet or to post?

950
01:19:44.359 --> 01:19:46.399
How? I actually think about it
all the time. As I said,

951
01:19:46.479 --> 01:19:51.000
I use the bathroom sometimes. I
use it all the time. Being if

952
01:19:51.079 --> 01:19:54.399
if we were to, if we
were to open up our phones and look

953
01:19:54.439 --> 01:19:59.960
at the screen, time, what
does yours look like? Well about it?

954
01:20:00.079 --> 01:20:03.960
Every three hours I make a trip
to the laboratory. That's the only

955
01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:12.399
time you do this. It seems
like you're on there a lot. No,

956
01:20:12.760 --> 01:20:19.760
I mean there'll be like brief moments
between meetings. I mean, so

957
01:20:20.319 --> 01:20:27.159
obviously I have like seventeen jobs,
so you know, and no, no,

958
01:20:27.439 --> 01:20:30.000
I guess technically it's work at this
point. It is, But I'm

959
01:20:30.039 --> 01:20:32.439
thinking just in terms of your mind
sharing. I mean, by the way,

960
01:20:32.439 --> 01:20:35.079
there's a lot of people who should
be working who are on this.

961
01:20:35.479 --> 01:20:40.279
Technically posting on Twitter is or X's
is work. It just count as work.

962
01:20:40.439 --> 01:20:45.800
So that's you know, there's that. But no, I mean I

963
01:20:45.199 --> 01:20:50.920
think I'm on well, I guess
usually probably I'm on for longer than I

964
01:20:50.960 --> 01:20:54.479
think. I know. But do
you think that's five hours a day?

965
01:20:54.520 --> 01:20:58.359
If we have the screen time of
like number hours per week, sometimes that's

966
01:20:58.399 --> 01:21:02.359
a scary number. It's probably I
don't know, it's a little over an

967
01:21:02.399 --> 01:21:06.880
hour day or something like that.
Just an hour a day. If we

968
01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:11.119
really looked at this together. Do
you have your phone with you? Yeah,

969
01:21:11.640 --> 01:21:18.199
you want to look? Okay,
Okay, here we go. You

970
01:21:18.319 --> 01:21:25.199
ready to screen time? Sometimes there's
a scary number of it. I know.

971
01:21:25.399 --> 01:21:38.359
That's why I thought. I just
got a new phone. So I

972
01:21:38.439 --> 01:21:43.199
think this is not accurate because it's
one minute. I'm pretty sure it's more

973
01:21:43.239 --> 01:21:46.039
than that. Wait, it's over
the week. It'll go to the week.

974
01:21:47.520 --> 01:21:50.119
Okay, so it's still wrong.
It's it's more than four minutes.

975
01:21:51.720 --> 01:21:55.680
I just got a new phone,
so this is not accurate. It literally

976
01:21:55.960 --> 01:21:59.479
four minutes new phone. Tim cooks
into the phone, new phone. Who

977
01:21:59.520 --> 01:22:02.119
does Yeah, I should ask,
by the way, because I just mentioned

978
01:22:02.199 --> 01:22:04.760
him Cook, do you feel like
you're gonna have to have a battle with

979
01:22:04.840 --> 01:22:09.319
him eventually? Is that? Is
that the next fight? I mean over

980
01:22:09.359 --> 01:22:12.000
the app store? The idea of
making a phone? What do you mean,

981
01:22:12.079 --> 01:22:15.239
like, no, no, no, of the app store? You

982
01:22:15.479 --> 01:22:17.960
make a phone? Sam Alvans apparently
thinking about making a phone, Johnny,

983
01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:21.600
I, I mean I don't think
there's a real need to make a phone.

984
01:22:24.439 --> 01:22:27.199
I mean, if there's an essential
need to make a phone, on

985
01:22:27.359 --> 01:22:30.119
make a phone. But I got
a lot of christ to fry, so,

986
01:22:30.920 --> 01:22:33.520
uh, I mean, I do
think there's a there's a there's a

987
01:22:33.560 --> 01:22:39.800
fundamental challenge that phonemakers have at this
point because you've got basically a black rectangle.

988
01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:45.119
You know, how do you make
that better? So do you want

989
01:22:45.119 --> 01:22:46.560
to do that? What does that? What does that look like? In

990
01:22:47.319 --> 01:22:54.119
Elon's head? No, that's literally
yeah, good good phrase in the head

991
01:22:54.720 --> 01:22:58.159
A new link. Well, there
we go that we need to touch that

992
01:22:58.279 --> 01:23:01.840
before it's over. You know,
the best interface would be a neural interface

993
01:23:01.920 --> 01:23:05.439
directly to your brain, so that
that would be a neural how far we

994
01:23:05.560 --> 01:23:10.000
do you think from that, and
how excited or scary does that seem to

995
01:23:10.039 --> 01:23:13.960
be? And we read these headlines
obviously about monkeys who died as you know,

996
01:23:14.840 --> 01:23:23.199
what should we think about that?
Yeah? Actually this is the USDA

997
01:23:23.359 --> 01:23:29.159
inspector who came by the Neuralink facilities
literally said in her entire career, she

998
01:23:29.239 --> 01:23:33.880
has never seen a better animal care
facility. It is we are the nicest

999
01:23:34.279 --> 01:23:38.880
channels that you could possibly be,
even to the rats and mice, even

1000
01:23:38.880 --> 01:23:45.960
though they did the plague and everything. So it is it is like monkey

1001
01:23:45.039 --> 01:23:54.640
paradise. So the thing that gets
conflated is that there were some terminal monkeys

1002
01:23:54.680 --> 01:23:57.359
where you know, this is long. This is actually several years ago,

1003
01:23:57.760 --> 01:24:00.159
where the monkeys were about to die
and we're like, okay, we've got

1004
01:24:00.199 --> 01:24:02.960
an experimental device. It's so kind
of thing which only put in a monkey

1005
01:24:03.000 --> 01:24:06.119
that's about to die. And then
you know, now the monkey died,

1006
01:24:06.159 --> 01:24:09.880
but didn't die because the neural link
died because it was you add, a

1007
01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:16.800
total case of cancer or something like
that. So neurlink has never caused the

1008
01:24:16.840 --> 01:24:21.760
death of a monkey. It's best
unless they're hiding something from me. Has

1009
01:24:21.840 --> 01:24:26.359
never caused death of a monkey.
And in fact, we've now had monkeys

1010
01:24:26.399 --> 01:24:33.640
with the neuralink implants for two three
years and they're doing great so and we've

1011
01:24:33.680 --> 01:24:40.039
even replaced it a neurlink twice,
and we're getting ready to do the first

1012
01:24:40.800 --> 01:24:46.600
implants in hopefully in a few months. The early implementations of neuralink, I

1013
01:24:46.600 --> 01:24:49.239
think are unequifectly good. Speaking of
the double edged sword, I think these

1014
01:24:49.319 --> 01:24:56.319
early implementations are single edged sword because
the first implementations will be to enable people

1015
01:24:56.359 --> 01:25:00.720
who have lost the brain body connection
to to be able to operate a computer

1016
01:25:00.840 --> 01:25:04.800
or a phone faster than someone who
has hands that work. So you can

1017
01:25:04.840 --> 01:25:11.760
imagine if Stephen Hawking could communicate faster
than someone who had full body functionality.

1018
01:25:12.119 --> 01:25:14.720
Now in credible that would be well, that's what this device will do,

1019
01:25:15.399 --> 01:25:19.359
and we should have a proof of
that in a human hopefully in a few

1020
01:25:19.439 --> 01:25:26.960
months. It already works in monkeys
and worked quite well with monkeys that can

1021
01:25:27.000 --> 01:25:31.880
play video games just using just by
thinking. So then the next application,

1022
01:25:32.119 --> 01:25:41.039
after the sort of those you know
dealing with tetriplegics who quit quaraplegics, is

1023
01:25:41.199 --> 01:25:45.359
going to be vision. Vision is
the next thing. So it's like if

1024
01:25:45.399 --> 01:25:53.840
somebody is like has lost both eyes
or the optic nerve has failed. Basically

1025
01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:59.279
where there's they have no possibility of
having sort of some ocular correction. That

1026
01:25:59.560 --> 01:26:03.079
that be the next thing when your
link is a direct vision interface, and

1027
01:26:03.159 --> 01:26:06.479
in fact then you could be like
Jordia LaForge from Star Trek. You could

1028
01:26:06.479 --> 01:26:10.960
see it in like any frequency.
Actually you can see in radar. If

1029
01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:15.159
you want, two final questions and
then we're going to do end this conversation,

1030
01:26:15.399 --> 01:26:17.640
which I think has taken everybody inside
the mind of Elon Musk today,

1031
01:26:18.039 --> 01:26:27.000
not as well as in your link. Well, it actually goes to self

1032
01:26:27.079 --> 01:26:30.399
driving cars and vision and everything else. And I asked this question if Pete

1033
01:26:30.399 --> 01:26:34.399
Buddha Judge Transportation Secretary. It's actually
something you retweeted, so I wanted to

1034
01:26:34.439 --> 01:26:42.119
ask you the same question. There's
a big question about autonomous vehicles and the

1035
01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:46.800
safety of them, but there's also
a question about when it will be politically

1036
01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:59.760
palatable in this country for people to
die in cars that are controlled by computers.

1037
01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:02.279
Which is to say, we have
thirty five forty thousand deaths every year

1038
01:27:02.439 --> 01:27:06.119
in this in this country. If
you could bring that number down to ten

1039
01:27:06.199 --> 01:27:11.159
thousand, five thousand, that might
be a great thing. But do we

1040
01:27:11.239 --> 01:27:16.119
think that the country will accept the
idea that five thousand people that your family

1041
01:27:17.319 --> 01:27:24.079
might have perished in a vehicle as
a result not of a human making a

1042
01:27:24.159 --> 01:27:28.640
mistake, but of a computer.
Yes, Well, first of all,

1043
01:27:28.760 --> 01:27:31.840
humans are terrible drivers. So if
people text and drive, they drink and

1044
01:27:31.920 --> 01:27:40.680
drive, they get into arguments,
they you know, you know, they

1045
01:27:40.720 --> 01:27:46.159
do all sorts of things in cars
that they should not do. So it's

1046
01:27:46.199 --> 01:27:51.039
actually remarkable that there are not more
deaths than there are. What we'll find

1047
01:27:51.119 --> 01:27:57.319
with computer driving is I think probably
in order of magnitude reduction in deaths.

1048
01:27:58.199 --> 01:28:02.600
I think now the US has actually
far fewer death per capita than the rest

1049
01:28:02.600 --> 01:28:06.439
of the world. If you go
worldwide, I think there's something close to

1050
01:28:06.479 --> 01:28:15.920
a million deaths per year to accidents. So I think computer driving will probably

1051
01:28:16.000 --> 01:28:21.840
drop that by or more. It
won't be perfect, but it'll be ten

1052
01:28:21.880 --> 01:28:25.079
times. And do you think that
the public will will accept that? Do

1053
01:28:25.119 --> 01:28:30.840
you think the government will accept that? Well, in large numbers, it

1054
01:28:30.880 --> 01:28:35.039
will simply be so obviously true that
it really cannot be denied. And what

1055
01:28:35.119 --> 01:28:39.159
do you think. I know we've
talked about the timeline before and I know

1056
01:28:39.239 --> 01:28:44.720
people have criticized you for putting out
timelines that may not have come true just

1057
01:28:44.840 --> 01:28:46.880
yet, but what do you think
it will? And by the way,

1058
01:28:46.920 --> 01:28:48.720
do you feel like you ever say
yourself, Oh, I shouldn't have said

1059
01:28:48.720 --> 01:28:58.840
that, Sure of course, Wait
I should have said that. So uh

1060
01:28:59.319 --> 01:29:04.439
yeah, I mean I'm optimistic about
I mean, I think I'm like naturally

1061
01:29:04.439 --> 01:29:08.319
optimistic about time scales. And if
I was not naturally optimistic, I wouldn't

1062
01:29:08.319 --> 01:29:11.760
be doing the things that I'm doing. I mean, I certain wouldn't have

1063
01:29:11.760 --> 01:29:14.880
started a rocket company or like the
car company if I didn't have some sort

1064
01:29:14.920 --> 01:29:20.319
of pathological optimism. Frankly, so, as you pointed out, many people

1065
01:29:20.319 --> 01:29:24.119
said they would fail, and in
fact, I actually I agreed with them.

1066
01:29:24.119 --> 01:29:25.720
I said, yes, it probably
will fail, and they're like,

1067
01:29:26.039 --> 01:29:30.399
okay, but I thought spasics and
says I had less than a ten percent

1068
01:29:30.520 --> 01:29:38.399
chance of success when we started them. So yeah, anyway, But the

1069
01:29:38.479 --> 01:29:44.760
self driving things is, I've been
optimistic about it. We certainly made a

1070
01:29:44.800 --> 01:29:48.159
lot of progress. If anybody has
tried the very has been using the sort

1071
01:29:48.159 --> 01:29:53.479
of full self driving beta, the
progress is, you know, every year

1072
01:29:53.520 --> 01:30:00.640
has been substantial. It's really now
the point where in most places it'll take

1073
01:30:00.680 --> 01:30:04.520
you from one place to another with
no inventions, and the data is unequivocal

1074
01:30:04.760 --> 01:30:13.560
that that supervised full self driving is
somewhere around four times safer, maybe more

1075
01:30:14.000 --> 01:30:23.479
than just human driving by by themselves. So I know, I can certainly

1076
01:30:24.039 --> 01:30:27.319
see it coming. Actually, really
you think it's another five or ten years

1077
01:30:27.319 --> 01:30:29.720
and many people no, no,
no, definitely not, definitely not.

1078
01:30:30.760 --> 01:30:35.000
Do you feel like investors have invested
in something that hasn't happened yet? Is

1079
01:30:35.039 --> 01:30:38.439
that is that fair to them?
And that's the other question that people have

1080
01:30:38.520 --> 01:30:44.279
about that. Well, I mean, I think they're all with rare exception,

1081
01:30:45.159 --> 01:30:47.760
but it wasn't happening, so they
were investing despite thinking. They're very

1082
01:30:47.800 --> 01:30:51.079
clear that they don't think it's real, so they're not saying, oh,

1083
01:30:51.720 --> 01:30:58.960
we just believe everything. Elan says, Hooklient and Sacre. But the thing

1084
01:30:59.039 --> 01:31:01.000
is that, I mean, I
would be a fair criticism of me to

1085
01:31:01.039 --> 01:31:04.520
say that I am late, but
it isn't. But I always love her

1086
01:31:04.560 --> 01:31:09.159
in the end and ask you the
final question. I took note of this.

1087
01:31:09.840 --> 01:31:13.359
It was November eleventh and you took
to Twitter and you wrote only two

1088
01:31:13.399 --> 01:31:18.800
words. You said, amplify empathy. Right. I was taken back by

1089
01:31:18.840 --> 01:31:21.640
that. Given all the things that
have been going on in the world,

1090
01:31:24.439 --> 01:31:28.920
do you remember what you were thinking? Well, I think it's quite literally,

1091
01:31:29.880 --> 01:31:31.960
I understand it. But what was
going on? Why why did you

1092
01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:40.079
write then? Well, I was
encouraging people to amplify empathy. Literally,

1093
01:31:40.399 --> 01:31:45.600
I've enduring quite literal. But what
was there something that had happened that you

1094
01:31:45.680 --> 01:31:47.000
had seen that you said to yourself, I need to I want to say

1095
01:31:47.039 --> 01:31:53.680
that. I think I'm starting to
some friends and we all agreed that we

1096
01:31:53.720 --> 01:32:00.720
should try to amplify empathy. And
so I wrote, ampify empathy. If

1097
01:32:00.760 --> 01:32:02.880
you wanted an unvarnished look inside the
mind of Elon Musk, I think you

1098
01:32:02.960 --> 01:32:09.279
just saw it. Look sometimes it's
pretty simple, you know. Elon Musk,

1099
01:32:09.399 --> 01:32:12.319
thank you very very much for the
conversation. Thank you, appreciate it

1100
01:32:12.520 --> 01:32:15.800
very very much. Thank you,
Thank you so much. Right here,

1101
01:32:15.920 --> 01:32:21.279
take that with you for a second. I'm just going to say thank you

1102
01:32:21.359 --> 01:32:26.279
to everybody who stuck around for what
has been a remarkable day. We are

1103
01:32:26.359 --> 01:32:30.119
so appreciative of everybody who has been
with us for so many years, coming

1104
01:32:30.199 --> 01:32:32.840
back to this every year. So
thank you, thank you, thank you.

1105
01:32:32.960 --> 01:32:35.479
I hope you had a great day, and I hope we have an

1106
01:32:35.479 --> 01:32:39.439
opportunity to do this again. Elon
Musk, everybody, thank you.