WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:12.119 Loop host Radio. We welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Roja. Open 2 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:17.920 Minds Radio is the UFO news authority presenting evidence and the latest news regarding the 3 00:00:18.079 --> 00:00:36.399 UFO phenomena. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas, and you're listening to Open 4 00:00:36.399 --> 00:00:40.159 Minds Radio. Thank you very much for doing so. By the way, 5 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:45.280 we have a great show today. We have Nick Redburn and I've never had 6 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:48.359 him on the show actually before, so it's great to have him for the 7 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:52.679 first time. I've met to and we've never been able to coordinate, and 8 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:56.320 we still don't know one hundred percent if we'll be able to cortinate. I 9 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:59.399 mean, everything's set up. I just talked to him. He's willing, 10 00:00:59.560 --> 00:01:03.200 he's ready. But since we're doing it live, you never know what can 11 00:01:03.239 --> 00:01:07.000 happen, and that's what we're going to do. We usually, actually very 12 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:10.480 often, we pre record these shows, but this one is going to be 13 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:14.560 live, so hopefully everything goes okay. We tried to pre record, but 14 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:19.159 this big storm in Texas, all hell broke loose in Texas right when we 15 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:26.599 wanted to record this spectacular interview with Nick so and because of the holidays and 16 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:30.599 the turkeys and everything, we ended up having to do it live, which 17 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:34.480 is going to be exciting. And if for some reason you're not aware of 18 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:38.480 who Nick Redfurn is, and some of you may not, He's written quite 19 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:46.359 a few big books on this field, one on contact ees, on Men 20 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:53.599 in Black, on Roswell. He does a lot of cryptozoological type of stuff. 21 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.920 In fact, he's got a book called Memoirs of a Monster Hunter that 22 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:02.000 sounds quite scary. So we'll be talking a lot about this. I love 23 00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:07.879 the contacty subject, and we've talked about the contacts of the fifties, those 24 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:14.039 crazy guys that used to go around and do wild and crazy stuff talking to 25 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:19.360 aliens, and some of them, you know, allegedly took pictures and videos 26 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:23.319 of UFOs and these aliens. So we're gonna ask Nick what he thinks about 27 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:25.879 them. And the reason why I'm particularly interested in what Nick has to say 28 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:32.120 because he also has kind of a controversial idea about UFOs and their origins in 29 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:37.080 the first place. So we'll talk to Nick about how he got into this 30 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:43.360 crazy, crazy build and how he came to his crazy crazy ideas. We 31 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:47.599 although I think his ideas are very interesting and possibly right on point, and 32 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:53.319 he happens to have an accent as really because he's swum across the poem as 33 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:58.599 they say, so Harry Potter Lands, he's very popular. So we'll talk 34 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:01.360 more about that coming care but before that, we're going to talk about the 35 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:07.240 news. And I did want to mention, of course, the UFO Congress, 36 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:12.159 which is like February, we're going to have a lot of cool speakers. 37 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.840 Maybe when Jason, our news correspondent, comes on, we'll talk more 38 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:22.639 about that, and let's just get to him right now. Every day on 39 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:30.479 Open Minds and on our Twitter, and remember the UFO Daily News Twitter, 40 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:36.719 we are tweeting and following up on news at UFO headlines from across the world. 41 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:40.719 And every week we bring in the best UFO correspondent that money can buy, 42 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:46.039 and that is Jason McClellan. You pay him and he'll do anything for 43 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:52.840 a buck, and so we gave him a couple bucks and he comes and 44 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:57.719 does the news for us. So it's great. Hello Jason, Hello mister 45 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:02.120 Landro, and hello everyone. News bread for Monday, November twenty eighth, 46 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:10.479 twenty eleven. A reason articles published by Space Daily state quote, most scientists 47 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:14.479 think that we are not alone in the universe. But as why have recently 48 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:18.759 explained, most of these scientists are focused on Earth like slilists as the best 49 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:25.160 candidates for finding extraterrestrials birth life planets are extremely rare in comparison to the number 50 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:29.199 of total planets in the universe, and with scientists focusing only on these few 51 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:32.959 planets, the extremely narrow search overlooks so many of the worlds that could be 52 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:40.040 home to extraterrestris of civilizations. That is why a team of scientists recently proposed 53 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:44.800 a wider set of criteria with planets that could support life. This team of 54 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:48.959 astrobiologists proposed two new planetary rating systems that could help widen the search for extraterrestrial 55 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:57.600 life. The researchers just ranking class on both and Extraterrestrial Similarity Index VSI and 56 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:03.600 in broader Planetary Ability Index a PHI. Why aren't explains quote. The first 57 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:08.160 index looks at how close the planet is to Earth in mass, temperature, 58 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:12.639 and composition, while the second is based on whether or not it possesses more 59 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:16.399 exotic chemistries, liquids, and energy sources than found on our planet. Alien 60 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:20.959 life could be based on elements other than carbon require liquids other than water and 61 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:27.160 gain energy through means other than sunlight end quotes. Able Mendez at the University 62 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.920 of Puerto Rico and Ourcibo is one of the co authors of the proposed rating 63 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:34.879 system. He explains, quote, we are trying not to be geocentric calculating 64 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:42.160 planetary habitability independence of liquid water in quotes which he supposed rating system was published 65 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:46.839 in the journal Astrobiology on November twenty first. While Hundra, this is something 66 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:50.639 that you and I have been mentioning week after week after week when we talk 67 00:05:50.720 --> 00:06:00.040 about the Kepler Telescope and all the efforts to search for extraterrestrial life, and 68 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:04.279 you know, we point out that we're operating, we being the scientists doing 69 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:09.879 this stuff up in space, NASA and the life are looking for Earth or 70 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:15.800 life as we know it, and how big the universe is the reasoning that's 71 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:21.519 the biggest we think it is there. We have no idea what other life 72 00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:26.680 could be out there. We have ideas, but not all life. And 73 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:30.879 we're basically it all off what we know what life is on Earth. So 74 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:35.160 by looking at all of these other worlds up there, there's so many bizarre 75 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:42.800 alien planets and we passed them by very quickly. If we say, oh 76 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:48.000 it's too hot, well doesn't have water. But now thanks to these scientists, 77 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:54.439 they're re evaluating that. Yeah, I think these guys are coming up 78 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:58.360 with more scenarios. They're widening the scope a little bit. It's meat that 79 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:01.680 they're talking about it and thinking of about it. I think that you know, 80 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:05.639 they're getting somewhat creative as opposed to the small scope, like you said, 81 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:11.920 kind of being unimaginative and looking for our perspective of what life is like 82 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:15.879 here on Earth. But I think you know what's funny about this is that 83 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:23.040 there's until we find something and find many different types of life out there, 84 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:28.720 we have absolutely no idea. So no doubt that because it's such a legling 85 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:32.040 science, I mean, because we haven't found like yet at least they haven't 86 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:39.000 in their official capacities, that it'll look a lot different when it's really rolling 87 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:46.319 than it does now, and perhaps efforts should be conflentrated more on the bodies 88 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:49.439 closer to Earth, where we could actually do something with what we find. 89 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:56.000 I mean, things have been passed over before move mars. I mean, 90 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:01.680 we're planets that once we're just kind of blampd at are now being evaluated because 91 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:09.199 we're now finding new things that indicate water was before we're just looking for standing 92 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:13.120 surface water. Yeah, and I still have never explained I don't know about 93 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:16.399 you. I've never why we really go back to the Moon so much. 94 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:20.800 I understand going to Mars, which is great, we have the bigger rover 95 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.240 going out there, but all of this effort. You know, we had 96 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:28.000 the first space lab, which was you know, trash and they let it 97 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:33.639 burn into the atmosphere, and we have the Space Station which has had you 98 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:35.879 know, kind of limited access to scientists. A lot of it's been defense 99 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.480 stuff. We could have all of this effort if it was focused at the 100 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.320 Moon. I mean we'd be up there mining away, we would be at 101 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:48.200 the pools where they think there might be water. I mean, there could 102 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:50.879 be a lot more to find at the Moon, and instead we're passing it 103 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:54.879 up and we're going to Mars and now other countries. I mean, China's 104 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.440 going to be able to have a base on the Moon before we are, 105 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:03.159 the way things are looking at right now. So yeah, we're could have 106 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:07.000 missed out. China's going to be playing with some moon monkeyss from and we're 107 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:11.480 going to be with our little rover in Mars. We talked about that before 108 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:16.000 and I'm sure I meany of our listeners that that same question. It makes 109 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:22.399 absolutely know such why on their plenty of conspiracy theories to have to go around 110 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.120 for everybody with that one. But yeah, it's such a bizarre concept that 111 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:33.360 there it is the closest body to Earth, so we could get to the 112 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:37.240 easiest. It's not that easy to get to the Moon, but we can 113 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.000 do it. So to just abandon that and then focus on other things that 114 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:46.559 are kind of not achievable with our current technology is Yeah, I'm kind of 115 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:50.679 bizarre where. I don't where did the space station get us? I mean, 116 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:54.600 sure, everybody you can definitely see the benefit and kept learn now and 117 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.639 in the hubble, But really, you know what amazing discoveries have we had 118 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:07.799 on the space station that it's still kind of hanging out. Yeah, I 119 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:11.480 think that's pretty impressive. Yeah, piece of space junk hasn't hasn't brought it 120 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:13.799 down yet. I think it would be cool if we had that thing on 121 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:20.440 the mood based Alpha. That'd be pretty cool, and they need to work 122 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:24.039 on it. I don't know, Bigelone needs to uh yep, quit camping 123 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.679 out and move based. Bigelo's get a move on. Well, let's get 124 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.480 it to another story, Lejandro. Residents of Rippon. I should ask my 125 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:37.120 friends and wis constant if it's Rippon or Ribbon. I think it's rip Home, 126 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:43.279 so I think it's Americans. Probably stay up Rippon to French who established 127 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:48.759 it, Probably stay Okay, we'll go with Ribbon. Residents of Ribbon, 128 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:54.559 Wisconson, b UFOs, and the nice guy. On November sixteen, according 129 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:58.919 to Rippon's press quote, suddenly everything rumbles, which caused residence towards the sky 130 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:05.600 where they saw a strange glowing light that lit upright and then faded out in 131 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:11.559 twoquence. Ripping Police Chief Dave Leckowski claims he witnessed the event, but that 132 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:18.039 it was military jets. He described quote was a screaming jet going over us 133 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:24.440 Greenlay County Chief Deputy Mark Kuski said there were no reports of UFOs and his 134 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:28.000 jurisdiction that night, and that representatives from the Wisconsin Air National Guard claimed the 135 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:33.600 Guard was flying missions over Rippon at the approximate time of the sightings on November 136 00:11:33.639 --> 00:11:37.159 sixteenth, but a video is supposed to be of the same event shows covering 137 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:43.080 lights in the sky, fading out then turning on again. The objects in 138 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:48.159 the video don't appear to be screaming military jets. So while the military has 139 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.720 taken credit for the incident, this video doesn't appear to support their story or 140 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:58.879 the witness accounts. Yeah, sounds like an interesting, exciting and it sounds 141 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:05.320 like a story that we hear frequently with sightings that happened over a populace. 142 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:11.519 We've have many witnesses and then made or because of the response is you get 143 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:18.080 the military claiming responsibility or providing an explanation, but it doesn't quite fit with 144 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:22.879 what people saw. And this case, you on the video, it doesn't 145 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:28.559 show screaming military jets doing by it. Yeah, and then you have a 146 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.240 police officer and a lot just like you know, sometimes they want to just 147 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:39.919 write things off too. Just like last week with our guests we talked about 148 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:45.480 saying that youfhone cops came out and said it was a star. So yeah, 149 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:50.000 Unfortunately people blow these things off a little too quickly sometimes. And I 150 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:54.879 will point out that certainly, you know, I'm not saying that the police 151 00:12:54.960 --> 00:13:00.000 or the military in the case are intentionally lying. You know, there can't 152 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:05.360 the multiple incidents on the same night, and you know we saw that very 153 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:11.000 light. They were multiple things in the sky that night, so you'd have 154 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.960 different stories. So just because one person that I saw this and somebody else 155 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.480 has the video that showed something else that the men a person's lying. You 156 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:22.440 didn't see what they said. Like Steubenville where there were jets in one area 157 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:26.879 and then there was a siding in another area, and then through FAA radar 158 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:33.360 reports, the move On investigators demonstrated that it appeared that some of those jets 159 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:39.240 broke off from the routines that they were carrying out in another location to kind 160 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:45.440 of go by where the sightings were, presumably to check out what it was 161 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:50.559 that was being reported or gone on radar, and which is what witnesses said. 162 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:52.240 They said they saw the uf and they said they saw jets fly by 163 00:13:54.639 --> 00:14:00.279 soon after so and everything that the witnesses had reported in this case, yets 164 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:07.440 and the UFO four out and were confirmed by the radar reports. And we 165 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:13.799 also see this a lot with incidents that are claimed to be a Chinese lanterns 166 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:20.279 by a second party. We have the witnesses come forward and tell the behavior 167 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.919 of the light Luke sky and things they saw, and then you know, 168 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:28.080 days later you'll hear a group come forward and say, oh, that was 169 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:31.519 up. We were having a party with realyship lanterns. But you know, 170 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:37.200 the wind's testimonies. In these cases, you have descriptions of things changing altitude 171 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:43.440 rapidly and changing shape and size and color and different things that don't exactly match 172 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:48.519 behavior of Chinese lanterns. It's stuff. I mean, I've seen video of 173 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:54.480 something that's round and red flying around in the sky and a tip's around super 174 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:58.480 quick. It was following people's got it, and it was when it was 175 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:03.080 closed, it more like a six feet tall thing. Video of this thing. 176 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:07.960 It was getting super bright and super dark, and it fits the description 177 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:13.919 of a Chinese lantern because it's drowned and red. But it certainly wasn't right. 178 00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.960 And so if there was someone floating some Chinese lanterns that light night, 179 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:20.960 oh that was just me. And they may think that, oh those people 180 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.240 were pulled with little did they know or did they witness you know, this 181 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:30.080 other amazing object flying around and maybe we're seeing that more and more with the 182 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:33.759 stunt planes too. Yeah, well it seems like there's more of that, 183 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:37.120 especially Chinese lanterns. There's more of that. I saw them in my town, 184 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:41.240 which was kind of cool and separate from the ones that we launched. 185 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:45.679 And I don't know about step planes, there's a lot of that. There 186 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:50.639 seems to be more of the parachooters with the flares than there used to be. 187 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:56.840 And of course radio control planes with LEDs and tights with LEDs O the 188 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:00.240 LED technologies, a lot of that. Yeah, that's one. A little 189 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:06.039 bit of Hollywood news here, director of at least Scott's highly anticipated film Prometheus, 190 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:11.279 who was apparently partially inspired by the writing of Swiss author Eric Bondanikin. 191 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.919 According to The Hollywood Reporter, Scott explains, NASA and the Vatican agree that 192 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:21.240 it is almost mathematically impossible that we can be where we are today without there 193 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:23.559 being a little holf along the way. That's what we're looking at in the 194 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:29.960 film at some of Eric Wondanikin's ideas of how did we humans come about. 195 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.159 Wondanakin is known for his books like Chariots of the Gods and God from Outer 196 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:40.759 Space, which delivered his ancient astronaut theory, an idea that suggests extraterrestrials in 197 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:45.279 contact with ancient civilizations on her and made perhaps be responsible for starting the first 198 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:49.799 civilizations on her. Wondanican frequently appears on the Popular History Channel program Ancient Aliens. 199 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:56.360 Prometheus was originally planned as a prequel to the Alien movie franchise. Screenplay 200 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:00.159 was reworth though, and the movie will now reportedly occupy both the theme general 201 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:07.359 universe as the Alien movies won't be directly related to those films. Is scheduled 202 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.359 for a twenty twelve vidas. So it's funny though, because now they're saying 203 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.759 the aliens from Alien are going to be in there, So it really and 204 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:18.359 it happens before, so it's really a pre quill it's turning out to even 205 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:22.000 though they said it with him, it's kind of morphed, but I'm so 206 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:26.559 excited about it. And it's funny that it's top of stitching and he he 207 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.720 pretty much adopted the ancient Adien's idea. You know, he's are vandemikin. 208 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:41.880 But what did I say, Oh yeah, sch vandanakn and uh he you 209 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:47.279 know, has pretty much come out really stotton seddey, and I believe that 210 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:51.759 there'll you know, this is a real thing that happened, this Acadian Paul 211 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:53.880 theory, which is kind of cool. And I don't know if you noticed 212 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:59.440 this. If you guys haven't seen the pictures, check out the links on 213 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:03.880 open my TV and they're you can go see the pictures because they look really 214 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:11.720 cool. And one of the pictures has this big human shape carving, very 215 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:17.319 similar to the picture that the Mexican uh, the Mayan documentary documentary. Yeah, 216 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:22.039 that's exactly what I thought too. Yeah, it's a large head, 217 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.440 cars and stone. It must have been inspired by it. It definitely was 218 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:30.920 inspired by Olmec or some Mayan type of thing because it's a flat bace and 219 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:34.839 but it's this real big carved space. Pretty cool. I'm really excited about 220 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:38.759 this movie. Yeah, I mean it's gonna be huge. There's been so 221 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:45.920 much hype about this and very little information release. Yeah, the big talking 222 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:51.200 about it then the idea even started. Yeah, they're being very secretive when 223 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:53.759 it's supposed to launch, you know, mid two. Okay, so we 224 00:18:53.880 --> 00:19:00.079 got some time. Well. The UFO Science and Consciousness Conference was held over 225 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:04.880 the weekend in Johannesburg, South Africa. The conference featured presentations on a variety 226 00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:11.000 of eat related topics from thirteen speakers, including most of interesting Laura Eisenhower, 227 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:18.039 the great granddaughter of White Eisenhower. She spoke about art technology being used to 228 00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:25.559 spend the Earth's population and Michael's Slender, who organized the conference, told attendees 229 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:29.960 that quote, all the governments in the world are puppets controlled by extraterrestrials, 230 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.000 and that the South African government had been one of the most important puppets to 231 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:41.440 these extraterrestrials because of the country's richness in gold and diamonds. The theory of 232 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:45.720 gold hunting extraterrestrial isn't new, kind of similar to well, a lot of 233 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:49.400 people have said this, and there's a lot written about it, and even 234 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:56.240 Stephen Hawking with his wonderful statements sort of support this notion that then extraterrestrials would 235 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:03.599 come and take our resources and wipe us up. Yeah. Thank But evidence 236 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:10.240 that there's evidence to suggests that there is more gold elsewhere in space than on 237 00:20:10.359 --> 00:20:15.640 Earth. Yeah, for example, on the asteroid Aeros euros Uh, there 238 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:22.200 is more aluminum, gold, silver, zink in other base and precious metal 239 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:27.759 and have ever been excavated in history or ind could ever be excavated from the 240 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:33.319 upper layers of the Earth's crust. Whoa, that's just a one asteroid and 241 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:36.759 not a very large one at that. There are thousands of asteroids out there, 242 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:41.279 and that's according to a statement from the BBC in nineteen ninety nine. 243 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:45.960 Yeah, so with that in mind, we don't have anything on this planet. 244 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:52.200 So yeah, couldly in comparison to what's out there. Maybe they would 245 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:57.279 argue that they don't have these hairless monkey animals they can save to extract the 246 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:02.759 gold for their mommos. There be rock, that's true. If they could 247 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:06.759 shoot them with their lasers and then pick up the gold, you have you 248 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:11.000 have an army of people to do things for you. Yeah, so that 249 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:14.640 could be the possible argument. But interesting that you know, Africa should have 250 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.880 their first conference. It's it was slated as the first UFO conference. Is 251 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:22.680 this first? Yeah, and it was. It was like a pretty good 252 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:26.440 and they went straight to the fringe type of staff from all the headlines I 253 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:30.720 thinking, and there were a lot of them. Yeah, it was definitely 254 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:36.400 pushing out the fringe. But unfortunately it didn't seem to have the that the 255 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:42.079 mega conferences such as the UFO Congress have no I if you can call it 256 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:48.400 the the uf the world it is. The UFOLD is definitely mega conference. 257 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:52.640 Yeah, definitely so but when you're just starting, you know, fit of 258 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:56.440 steam and keep rolling and uh yeah, and you know what, even I'm 259 00:21:56.480 --> 00:22:02.079 glad these guys uh had their conference go off this past weekend. That's great, 260 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:06.200 and I hope he continues. I mased on. You know, a 261 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:08.720 lot of the stories that we've covered from this year and last year, I 262 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:12.160 would really like to see Australia get theirs off. Yeah, they were, 263 00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:15.440 they were getting closer. They were going to get some government funding for it, 264 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:21.039 and they lost the funding and I haven't heard any more about them, 265 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:25.359 but a lot of interesting things out of Australia. I think Australian conference would 266 00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:27.400 be really du Yeah. In other countries, a lot of conferences would be 267 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.279 cool. England, I think they were they were going to have one and 268 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:36.240 then it kind of I don't think it's happening anymore. The people who do 269 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:45.880 the UFO magazine now there, but yeah, they have a couple so but 270 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:49.240 I was reading you know what Nick rope Pope wrote about the UFO Congress last 271 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:53.079 year that you posted. I think you tweeted that, or or Maureene did 272 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:56.680 and got a lot of cool stuff to say, and he was kind of 273 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.079 the same, hoping that they could have a conference. The UFO Congress is 274 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.880 out there, so it'd be cool to have the big conferences, you know, 275 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:10.160 all over the world, which hopefully would help inspire them some more communication. 276 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:17.559 You know, I wrote this Chinese upology story for the upcoming magazine about 277 00:23:17.559 --> 00:23:19.720 their recent sightings and stuff, and that's one thing it would be nice, 278 00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:23.480 is if we can have more contact with the Chinese or you know, we've 279 00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:29.400 written about the Russians, more contact to talk back and forth and cover each 280 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:33.880 other's stories and feed each other information and help each other out. That'd be 281 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.680 so great. You're right, I mean, we might I talk about this 282 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:41.640 a lot. There's so many amazing researchers in China that would be fantastic to 283 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:47.119 have an opened eye a lot with them. Our buddy Rank sitch out that 284 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:49.160 we've gotten to talk to them, but we love them just the same. 285 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:53.839 We do. Yeah. Well, on the topic of conferences, we have 286 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:59.440 another one to talk about here. UFO investigative Journalists. Kaula Harris is pretty 287 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:03.759 a conference. She said, we'll highlight women in apology. Those involved in 288 00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:07.799 the field of eupology have historically been predominantly male, and therefore UFO conferences have 289 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:12.880 had predominantly male attendees. Paula Harris is hoping to change that with her women's 290 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:18.839 UFO symposiums. As she explained to The Uffington Post, women are not on 291 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.640 the forefront of many UFO conferences. It's kind of an old boys club. 292 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:29.160 Women's UFOs Oposium will take place May nineteen, twentieth, twenty twelve in Glen 293 00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:33.240 Rose, Texas, near the town of Stephenville, the site of the well 294 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.000 publicized UFO sidings in two thousand and eight. And while all the speakers of 295 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:41.480 this conference are women, men are certainly welcome to his end. Yeah, 296 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.839 that's really exciting. I think that's great that she's going to be doing that, 297 00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:49.160 and that she's going to have the daughter of Kenneth Arnold. That is 298 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:56.440 really that's as time speaking about Kenneth Arnold and talking about other sightings that he 299 00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:59.160 have, not just the one that he's known for. Yeah, right, 300 00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:02.519 that he had others sidings. And she said she's going to write a story 301 00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:07.119 of this interview for the magazine for our magazine Open Minds, so that's going 302 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:11.480 to be that's I think. I love that she's putting together this women's one 303 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:17.279 to just kind of, you know, because they always seem to be the 304 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:22.319 minority in these conferences because there aren't as many researchers. But it's cool to 305 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:26.480 have them highlighted. There's some great women doing some incredible stuff out there. 306 00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:29.359 I think that you know, Betty who we talked to last week, that's 307 00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:33.440 cool. She's written her book and it's a different perspective, you know, 308 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:37.839 her dealing with her husband as opposed to hear a lot about husbands dealing with 309 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:41.599 their wives in this field. So it's really cool. I think it can 310 00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.319 open it up and hopefully make some of the wives of the husbands be more 311 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:49.799 open and you know, hopefully make women feel more comfortable to be involved with 312 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:53.759 this field. I'm very proud to say that the strong majority of the speakers 313 00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:59.359 at the conference have been just on this radio show. That's right. Then 314 00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:03.240 there are better that's right, and they're cool. Leads are good, and 315 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:08.200 Romani's wife is going to be one of the speakers. That's really exciting because 316 00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:15.160 I think our radio show is about the only outlet she's had to really speak. 317 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:21.680 She's because people don't invite her. They invite Stan And that's why I 318 00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:26.160 like to have her in the un because I think her perspective is is really 319 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.039 interesting because she's a witness and she's a credible witness. So it is her 320 00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:34.440 book out here, I don't think so she's written her own book. I 321 00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:40.359 think it'll be out by then, but I think it's finished and it's in 322 00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:45.079 the process of being published or however they're doing that, and I don't have 323 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:48.319 to listen in front of me that I remember Carol Rossin was speaking at that's 324 00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:53.079 home, Ye, Carol Rods And of course that involved with Stephen Bill will 325 00:26:53.200 --> 00:27:00.880 be Angela Joiner. Angela Joiner and she's getting a special award which is really 326 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.759 cool. And yeah, you're the news guy, you're supposed to have the 327 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:11.119 list. It's on the video for people watching the video when they watch this 328 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:15.720 on YouTube, they can see the list. But we also have the information 329 00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:18.519 on our website of the mind's on TV. Yeah, but congratulations, Paul. 330 00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:22.880 I think this is a wonderful idea and it's something I will definitely plan 331 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.839 to attend, even though I am a one of these old boys, good 332 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.119 old boy. I'm a good old boy. Now she's could be a good 333 00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:33.000 old boy. That's true, all Von Smith. If we've had on the 334 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.359 show recently, mean, we've had Carol Rosin Amy Sparrow, we're good friends 335 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:41.039 with her, but we haven't had her on the show. And I didn't 336 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.640 know that she had stuff to say, So that's awesome. I'm interested to 337 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:47.079 see what she has to say. She's involved and she helps out in the 338 00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:52.359 LA area. And then Tracy Austin Peters who mostly does ghost stuff in Las 339 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:56.039 Vegas. Right, so, but she used to host actually the move On 340 00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:02.519 Symposians and she's a really neat lady. In fact, her husband before he 341 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:06.400 moved to California, because she used to do a TV show out of California. 342 00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:11.039 He was in Colorado. I think he was the state director of moufund 343 00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:15.200 in Colorado for a while. Yeah, really cool people, so pretty exciting. 344 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:18.039 We should have her on the show, Yeah, we should. I 345 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:21.559 know. I talked to her not too long ago too, and she mostly 346 00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:25.759 does ghost stuff, but I haven't thought about She's interviewed a lot of people 347 00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:30.640 on UFO, so that would be really interesting. What's the pump on to 348 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.319 you? Up there. No, well, I did what she's going to 349 00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:38.319 be speaking at out of the UFO conference, and I don't think they have 350 00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:42.200 those details yet. Yeah, I'm sure she's got plenty today. Right, 351 00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:48.200 She's done quite a lot. But I'm also interested in her ghosto. But 352 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:51.319 that's cool if they have her. I didn't know that she had been involved 353 00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:56.720 with the new fund. Yeah, she was a host. I mean John 354 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.240 Greenwalt has been the host for a long time, but she was as in 355 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:03.480 between the one year and that was and she was great. It was a 356 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.880 lot of fun because she had a great She's I can't remember Australian or English, 357 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:14.960 but because unfortunately Tess Americans and I apologize for my Australian and British friends, 358 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:18.119 but we can't always tell all the difference and I am so sorry. 359 00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:21.599 No, we're not good at picking that. Ugh. Yeah, well a 360 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:23.960 longo. That is it for the news for today. Remember to check out 361 00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:29.240 all these stories and tell me more at open mind dot tv, your source 362 00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:32.640 for UFO. We waited news. I'm Jason mcfowen, your Open Mind News 363 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:37.960 corresponding and you have been briefed back to you, mister. All right, 364 00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.799 thank you, Jason, So All of these stories you just talked about, 365 00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:47.559 of course, can be found on the website open minds dot tv, and 366 00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:51.680 you can see the pictures and stuff that we talked about. And I think 367 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:55.880 we've covered all the stories that are on there pretty much this time. Sometimes 368 00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.839 we talked about a couple afterwards. But let's go ahead and try to bring 369 00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:06.160 up mister reg Vernon. What we're going to do is we're going to dial 370 00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:07.880 him, so you'll hear some dial music and then we'll have him come on 371 00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:15.680 and let's do some dialing music by up do do do do do do? 372 00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:22.920 Were dialing La la la do do do do do? Ba? Up? 373 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:30.960 Hello? Hello, can you hear me? Yes? Second? Okay, 374 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:33.599 great, Nick, how are you? I'm doing good? Thanks, Hell 375 00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:38.119 and Josie going very good. It's great to have you on. I'm excited 376 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.799 to talk to you. Well. Thanks having me on. I appreciate it. 377 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:48.839 Thank you. Yeah. So what I wanted to talk about first was 378 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:56.960 sort of your cool how this all started for you. I've never heard story 379 00:30:57.079 --> 00:31:02.119 a story about how you got interested in the paranormal on, how you kind 380 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:07.240 of started this crazy journey. All right, are you ready to go? 381 00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:14.240 Yeah, We're good to go. You're on live and we are a one, 382 00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:18.359 all right, cool. Well, basically what happened was that my dad 383 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.519 was in the British Royal Air Force. He worked on radar, and this 384 00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.599 was during the what was called national service national services like the English or was 385 00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:30.079 the English equivalent of the draft in the same way you know, there's no 386 00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:34.599 draft in America. Now there's no national service in England. But back when 387 00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:38.640 my dad was sort of eighteen nineteen, he was drafted into the military and 388 00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:42.720 he chose to go into the Royal Air Force. He had an interest in 389 00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:48.759 aircraft and even to this day he actually works as as a guide at a 390 00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.720 Royal Air Force museum in England called our AF Cosford. He sort of gives 391 00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:56.960 tours and things like that. So he chose the Royal Air Force and worked 392 00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:02.039 on radar and he trained in radar. Basically, this was the height of 393 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:06.279 the Cold War, and of course, you know, everybody thought there was 394 00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:08.440 going to be some sort of confrontation with the Russians, so you know, 395 00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:14.640 it actually wasn't that sort of like a relaxed, easy draft. You know, 396 00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.720 everybody was really highly trained because they thought war was coming. And my 397 00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:21.720 dad worked, as I said, on radar, and he was involved in 398 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:27.319 three UFO incidents, or rather he could call it one incident that occurred over 399 00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:34.279 three nights in September nineteen fifty two at the height of a NATO operation called 400 00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:38.039 main Brace. And what happened was that both pilots and the radar in the 401 00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:45.240 air and the ground based radar personnel reported seeing these or tracking these objects on 402 00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.759 the radar, and the pilots seeing these strange balls of light in the sky. 403 00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:52.319 Again, first thought was it was the Russians. So aircraft more aircraft 404 00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:57.039 were scrambled to try and intercept them, couldn't get close to them, and 405 00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:01.640 eventually the pilots returned to base because they literally running out of fuel. As 406 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:06.160 I said, this went on over the course of like seventy two hours something 407 00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:09.119 like that, and eventually everybody was taken into a room, everybody who was 408 00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:12.799 involved, and was told, you know, you won't talk about this, 409 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:16.119 this is sort of national security issues. And my dad didn't tell me till 410 00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:22.279 I was like about thirteen or fourteen, and so that sort of got me 411 00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:25.319 interested in UFO's not just because you know, the story had come from my 412 00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:30.160 own dad, but because he was also trained in the military to work on 413 00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:36.039 radar and understand, you know, the difference between picking up like a solid 414 00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:39.279 object on the radar screens versus you know, like a shadow of a return 415 00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:44.680 from a cloud or something like that, which can happen on occasion. And 416 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:46.759 when I finished school, you know, I was one of these kids who 417 00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:51.599 I didn't do very well at school. I was pretty much useless with everything, 418 00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:54.920 and I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I went down 419 00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:58.839 what in England's called the job center one day and I was like sixteen or 420 00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:04.519 seventeen, and turned out they had an opening on a music and fashion and 421 00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:07.640 entertainment magazine in the town I was living at the time. It was called 422 00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:09.800 Zero the magazine. And I thought, well, you know, this sounds 423 00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.880 like a cool job. It sounds like the sort of don't sound like a 424 00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:15.880 real job. You know, we've got to go to work and wear a 425 00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:19.360 suit and tie and be told what to do, right, more relaxed and 426 00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.320 chilled out and whatever, you know. And I was getting paid to do 427 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:27.400 like gig reviews and record reviews and all that sort of stuff, and you 428 00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.280 know, and it was fun. And I thought, well, you know, 429 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:32.760 I've enjoyed sort of getting into the world of writing with not much of 430 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:37.559 an academic background behind me really, and then I thought, well, why 431 00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:42.880 not try now and combine not exclusively, because I'd still do a lot of 432 00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:46.000 sort of music stuff and entertainment stuff, you know, as well. I 433 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:50.440 don't just sort of write about paranormal stuff. But what happened was that I 434 00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:52.400 thought, well, you know, I've got this sort of two year background 435 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:59.159 on this magazine in journalism, and I've got this interest in UFOs and paranormal 436 00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:02.400 stuff. Why not try and combine the two. And so that's basically what 437 00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:06.199 I did. You know, I had held down sort of regular jobs for 438 00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:09.840 sort of five or six years, turing sort of mid twenties, and then 439 00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:14.239 sort of took the plunge and thought, you know, it's like one of 440 00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:15.920 those now or never situations, you know what I mean, where it was 441 00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:19.400 kind of like, well, I'll give it a try and if it works 442 00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.360 out, it works out. If it doesn't, then I'll fall back and 443 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:25.719 go on writing about you know, fire service coming to try and get somebody's 444 00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:29.320 cat out of the tree or whatever, you know what I mean, right, 445 00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:32.679 and just you know, just continue on writing, but on whatever subject. 446 00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:36.280 So that's sort of what really kicked me off. It was this combination 447 00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:39.440 of hearing this story from a dad when I was a kid, and then 448 00:35:39.800 --> 00:35:45.639 from there, you know, getting involved in journalism and thinking about combining the 449 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:50.039 two. Mm hmm. Yeah. Wow. An amazing story that your father 450 00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:52.960 had there, because, like you said, you know, they're on alert 451 00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:57.000 back then, they're really freaked out about the Russians. Yeah, I mean, 452 00:35:57.079 --> 00:35:58.559 this is you know, it's a long time ago. I mean, 453 00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:01.360 my dad's eighteen next year. He still talks about this and still remembers it, 454 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:05.719 you know, and to his credit, you know, he doesn't speculate 455 00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:07.639 or overspeculate on what it was. He just said, you know, we 456 00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:10.480 picked up something and he said, I can tell you for shure, back 457 00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:15.199 in fifty two, there was no way we were flying things that could travel 458 00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:20.320 at that speed and perform you know, almost like left and right hand turns 459 00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:23.480 at you know, fantastic speeds, he said. And the the movements, 460 00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:28.119 you know, it was clear these things were under some sort of intelligent controls. 461 00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:35.519 Now, when was it that you moved to the United States about eleven 462 00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:39.000 years ago something like that. Although my wife's from Texas, we lived just 463 00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:43.400 outside Dallas, just like about fifteen minute drive from Dallas. Twenty minute drive 464 00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:47.159 from Dallas. Although she's was born in Texas, act she grew up in 465 00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:52.960 the Cayman Islands. So we got like a real international relationship. I suppose 466 00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.519 we live in Dallas. She grew up in the Cayman Islands. I grew 467 00:36:54.599 --> 00:37:00.679 up in England and just outside Dallas. And yeah, I've been over a 468 00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:05.199 sort of or lived here I should say, about eleven years. I first 469 00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:09.880 came over about thirteen or fourteen years ago for a conference something like that. 470 00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:17.719 Okay, Now I'm curious because these days, you know, Britain news is 471 00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:22.800 bully. You at those stories the Sun, the Daily Mirror, the Daily 472 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:27.920 Telegraph, you know, even the Guardian writes stories. It's a big topic 473 00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:31.400 that you see a lot of, you know, and others too, because 474 00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:36.159 you know, we're covering new stories in England all the time. They seem 475 00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:39.000 to have almost as many as we have here in the States. So I 476 00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:44.159 know it's a big deal now. But what was it like growing up where 477 00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:47.920 people open to the idea of UFOs, you know, prior to something out 478 00:37:47.960 --> 00:37:52.679 here. Well, I mean that's a good question, because there's absolutely no 479 00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:57.159 doubt that in terms of the British media, stuff's definitely changed in the last 480 00:37:58.400 --> 00:38:01.960 significantly changed the last five years. But there's been a definite trend probably over 481 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:07.079 the last nine, ten eleven years, and a lot of it actually coincided 482 00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:12.119 with when the government started to release and declassify some of its biles, which 483 00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:14.320 was showing, you know, that the government did have an interest and that 484 00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.280 there were credible reports from pilots, military people, et cetera, and you 485 00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:22.079 know, a substantial number of very good reports from the general public. And 486 00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:25.360 I think what happened was that the media began to realize, you know, 487 00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:30.239 this wasn't just as they previously perceived it, Like you know, the typical 488 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:34.960 approach that the media takes all around the world that if you investigate UFOs, 489 00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:37.000 you're kind of weird, you know, and you have no life or whatever. 490 00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:40.119 You know what I mean. I think we're all just kind of one 491 00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:45.960 step away from a serial killer or whatever. Yeah, But I think what 492 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:50.119 happened was that when the media sort of realized that we'll hang on a minute, 493 00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:52.519 you know, the British Ministry, Defense, the Royal Air Force, 494 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:57.280 you know, and friends and colleagues in the US or France and Germany wherever 495 00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:01.119 were also releasing files. They began to realize that, yeah, when you 496 00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:06.840 weave your way through the hoaxes and misidentifications, et cetera, et cetera, 497 00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:12.199 were left with a small percentage that are really good reports. And I think, 498 00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:15.159 you know, to their credit, at least to a degree, you 499 00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:17.440 know, the media did change its approach, and yeah, they still have 500 00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:23.079 this slightly condescending, humorous approach, but equally they do take the subject far 501 00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:28.079 more seriously than they did, and I think given out of the situation was 502 00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.800 sort of fifteen years ago and further back than that. You know, any 503 00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:35.079 advance has got to be a good advance, and of course it brings more 504 00:39:35.559 --> 00:39:39.599 publicity, excuse me, more publicity for the subject, which hopefully encourages more 505 00:39:39.639 --> 00:39:44.320 people to come forward with their accounts, which will, you know, lend 506 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:49.159 more support to the idea that you know, this phenomenon exists, right, 507 00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:52.480 Yeah, some of the papers I can think of, you know, especially 508 00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:58.400 recently, stories and what with Shire and Trapshire and Eastbourne are some of the 509 00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:04.039 towns where and some of the smaller local papers where they take these UFO reports 510 00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:07.360 very seriously. They don't really make fun of it. They tell it pretty 511 00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:13.119 straight to interviews with the witnesses, and it's pretty cool. Yeah, I 512 00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:15.320 think you actually get that. I mean yeah, I mean I know that 513 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:19.840 from working in just general journalism that you know, if there's breaking stories in 514 00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.800 the town you live in, you know, the little local newspaper wants to 515 00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:27.239 cover it. You know, whether it's a murder, a car accident, 516 00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:30.679 you know, truck goes off a bridge, whatever, you know, it's 517 00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:34.639 big news because it's at a local level. And I think when it's something 518 00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.239 that's a mystery as well, you know, somebody sees a UFO or somebody 519 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:42.079 sees bigfoot or whatever. You know, it's it's one of these things where 520 00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:45.679 the media like to cover it, you know, because it's an entertaining story 521 00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:47.800 and it's an interesting story, and it's a local one as well. So 522 00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:52.320 yeah, curious now that you see that you've seen in the two worlds. 523 00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:55.039 You know, you've lived here in the States for quite some time, Texas 524 00:40:55.480 --> 00:41:00.199 of all places that you've seen, you know, real Americans and and what 525 00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:04.840 American mic is like thinking back when you grew up because you were you know, 526 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:09.239 your father telling you these incredible UFO stories you being into the subjects. 527 00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:15.440 Did you bring up the subject with your friends when you were young and how 528 00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:20.159 did they react any different than the US think Americans would have reacted? Not 529 00:41:20.679 --> 00:41:22.920 really. I mean it's like even today, you know, if I go 530 00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:24.760 back to England and you know, I mean my mates go down the pub 531 00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:28.519 and watch the football, you know, the sort of soccer as it's called 532 00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:30.559 over here, you know, on the big screen, right, you know, 533 00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:35.559 it's not like we're all sort of talking about UFOs or Area fifty one. 534 00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:37.559 You know. It's kind of like I you know, I have a 535 00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:43.079 deep passion for UFOs and I write about it, but I also like to 536 00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:45.920 have a life away from it, you know, and most of my friends 537 00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:49.320 aren't interested in it. But that doesn't bother me because we have a lot 538 00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:52.599 of other interests that we share anyway, you know, and it's cool to 539 00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:55.639 just hang out with the beer and talk about who's going to win you know, 540 00:41:55.760 --> 00:42:00.079 the cop this year in the football or whatever, or you know what 541 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:04.079 everybody's been doing and who's got married or you know who's done this or whatever. 542 00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:09.920 You know, So for me, it's never been an issue or you 543 00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:14.360 know, some sort of dark secret that I don't discuss with people. You 544 00:42:14.440 --> 00:42:16.239 know, people into it, that's cool if they're not. You know, 545 00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:21.280 I've got plenty of other things that interests me to talk about as well, 546 00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:24.079 you know. So yeah, but it's you know, I mean I've been 547 00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:27.199 as I said, I've been into it since as a kid. You know. 548 00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:30.760 Most of my friends know that. But you know, some of them 549 00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:34.559 are interested. Someone like to know what I'm up to. You know. 550 00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:37.280 Others are interesting because they know me as a friend, but they're not necessarily 551 00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:43.079 interested as such in the phenomena. You know, it's and that's cool. 552 00:42:43.159 --> 00:42:46.239 You know, it doesn't have any bearing on friendships. It's just you know, 553 00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:51.199 somebody likes listening to rock music, someone likes reggae, you know whatever. 554 00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:53.000 You know, it's a ye, it could be boring if we're all 555 00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:55.639 into the same stuff, I guess, so, oh yeah, they'd be 556 00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:00.719 real boring. But and likely you're into the law and rock and roll, 557 00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:05.639 so you can cover it all. Yeah, exactly. So I wanted to 558 00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:10.159 talk a little bit about your perspective the phenomena because you have some unique perspectives 559 00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:15.360 and I think that you like to which I think is a good thing personally, 560 00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:20.960 because I've talked about all of the other possibilities, and I feel similar. 561 00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:25.480 But you are certainly like to look in all the possibilities out there. 562 00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:30.440 I like to get your perspective on the what it's able, because we always 563 00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:37.119 need acronyms etch or the extraterrestrial hypothesis. But about some of your other ideas, 564 00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:42.000 what do you think about the eth these days? Well, you know, 565 00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:45.360 I mean, I think I think like most people, when you get 566 00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:46.880 into the UFO subject, I think a lot of people get into when you 567 00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:50.840 are a kid, you know, like a young teenager, whatever. And 568 00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:53.639 it's either often because you've had a sight in which I've never had, you 569 00:43:53.719 --> 00:43:59.039 know, or you have a friend or a colleague or whatever who has what 570 00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:01.760 I did with my dad and you get into it that way, or you 571 00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:04.840 know, you just have to pick up a book and it fascinates you. 572 00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:07.159 There's different ways. But I think when you kind of that age, a 573 00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:10.199 lot of things in life are just black and white, you know, And 574 00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:15.639 it's only when you get older your sort of perceptions I won't say change, 575 00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:19.480 but you just you become more sort of worldly, you know, and know 576 00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:23.559 what's going on, et cetera. And so you know, in that respect. 577 00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:27.039 I think when I first got it, well, I know when I 578 00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:29.360 first got into the subject. You know, for me, it was all 579 00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:32.880 UFO was in nuts and bolts craft, you know, coming from this star 580 00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:37.880 system or that star system. Now, I don't dispute that could be the 581 00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:44.719 case, but I would probably say at least sort of round about my late 582 00:44:44.840 --> 00:44:49.760 twenties onwards, I kind of began to change the views I had, not 583 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:54.079 as some people think. You know, I don't believe in a genuinely unknown 584 00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:58.760 UFO phenomena, and explain, which is, you know, complete garbage, 585 00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:01.400 I do, you know, I'm just not or not sure. I should 586 00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:06.880 say not convinced, but not sure. It's literally extraterrestrial in the sense we 587 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:09.960 understand it. And I'll tell what I mean by that. When you you 588 00:45:10.039 --> 00:45:14.400 know, you dig more and more into the complexities of the UFO subject. 589 00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:20.199 One of the things I've found is that you find crossovers between certain aspects of 590 00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:27.320 the UFO subject and other areas of what people might term paranormal stuff supernatural issues, 591 00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:32.000 where you find kind of parallels between alien abduction stories and accounts that you 592 00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:37.159 know, five hundred years ago people would place into the realm of encounters with 593 00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:39.679 goblins and things like this, you know, or demons, you know, 594 00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:44.599 where it seems like the event is kind of similar. The person's paralyzed in 595 00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:50.000 bed, there's this sort of force watching them, et cetera, you know, 596 00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:52.639 and they experience this in time. You know, you have all these 597 00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:59.039 archetypal aspects to it. So what I would say is that there's absolutely no 598 00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:04.599 doubt in my mind today as before, that there's a genuine UFO phenomenon of 599 00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:08.519 unknown origins that is nothing to do with us as the human race. But 600 00:46:09.079 --> 00:46:15.760 whether it's literally extra terrestrial you know, aliens in metal craft coming from points 601 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:20.559 A to point B, or if it could be like interdimensional extra dimensional, 602 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:24.239 you know, things like quantum physics are allowing today for the existence of extra 603 00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:31.760 dimensions. I think I think we're dealing personally with something that manifests and interacts 604 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:37.679 with us from like a far closer point to home than we actually suspect, 605 00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:44.079 and I actually sometimes think it could masquerade as extraterrestrial to kind of camouflage its 606 00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:47.960 real origins. Now you know exactly what that means, what it is, 607 00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:51.800 you know, that's the big question, you know, I always say to 608 00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:55.400 people, even though UFOs exist, you know, sort of sixty four years 609 00:46:55.440 --> 00:47:01.079 after Kenneth Arnal coined the term flying sources know it's the U in UFO still 610 00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:07.480 stands unidentified. You know. The idea it means alien spacecraft is a theory 611 00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:10.199 or a belief system, you know. So my mind, there's no doubt 612 00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:15.159 that there's a UFO phenomenon from somewhere else, But it's the nature of that 613 00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:20.320 somewhere else I'm not entirely sure of, you know. I mean, I 614 00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:24.719 mean, I've investigated cases, for example, UFI encounters where someone's had like 615 00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:30.039 an abduction experience and then a couple of days later in the house they've experienced 616 00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:35.239 like violent poltergeist activity, you know, and it's difficult to sort of reconcile 617 00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:39.480 that with like just the equivalent of you know, NASA's Apollo astronauts coming here 618 00:47:39.480 --> 00:47:43.719 and do you know what I mean? Ye to me, there's something else 619 00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:46.840 going on, you know, And I have a big interest in, for 620 00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:52.440 example, research that's been done into like like how psychedelics can kind of open 621 00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:57.800 you know, portals or doorways to other realms, things like mushrooms, DMT 622 00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:02.360 that sort of thing where you know, you're altering perceptions and it seems to 623 00:48:02.440 --> 00:48:07.119 open a portal where we can interact with entities that you know, some people 624 00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:10.159 would say, well, you know, you're just tripping, and you know 625 00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:15.039 it's just your mind distorted and you know, conjuring up imagery. But a 626 00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:22.559 lot of this imagery is almost like archetypal abduction type experiences. Now, some 627 00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:24.559 the skeptics would say, well, that means abductions are all in the mind. 628 00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:30.039 I don't think that. I think altered states can actually open doorways to 629 00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:35.719 allow us to interact with these entities. And I think that's why thousands of 630 00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:40.320 years ago, you know, the equivalents of abductees and contactees. Back then 631 00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:44.480 we're like shame and you know, people would go up into the mountains and 632 00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:49.280 meditate and they'd encounter or interact with these higher entities. You know, it 633 00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:52.320 wasn't just that they were tripping. It actually was that they had found the 634 00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:57.719 secrets as to how to interact with these higher entities that for the most part 635 00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:02.280 with most people today interact randomly with them. But I could actually provoke the 636 00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:10.559 experience, right, That's what I like about investigators and some of the you 637 00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:16.159 know moveau more investigators. I mean, you work with a group of people. 638 00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:20.639 Great bishop, and you work with Mactoni, who unfortunately has passed away, 639 00:49:20.679 --> 00:49:25.199 who had similar perspectives. But it's also I think you know a lot 640 00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:30.119 of people. It's an area that makes it difficult for science because I agree 641 00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:36.880 with you, there's all this bleedover there is there are these experiences people have 642 00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:45.719 that are internal their mental experiences. And then some of these experiences seem very 643 00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:51.639 similar to paranormal experiences, but they do. Like you said, I agree, 644 00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:55.239 there's there's a phenomena that is external to a person and internal, and 645 00:49:55.320 --> 00:50:00.599 they're more similar than I think we'd like to go. And I think people 646 00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:04.760 don't want to go there because it grazes the water and then you can't have 647 00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:09.320 this, you know, strictly extraterrestrial investigation, and they think science is going 648 00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:13.840 to shy away from that. And I can see it be difficult for scientists 649 00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:17.079 to play in that area. But if that's what's going on, that's what's 650 00:50:17.159 --> 00:50:22.159 going on, and it's just so extremely enigmatic and complicated. No, yeah, 651 00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:24.840 you're absolutely right, And I mean one of the things I would say, 652 00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:29.960 and you know this isn't meant as a criticism of the UFO field, 653 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:32.679 it's meant as what I see as an accurate observation. I think there are 654 00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:38.280 a lot of people within eupology and keep players in uthology consciously or not, 655 00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:46.000 who Yes, they believe that it's extraterrestrial, but equally they take the view 656 00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:52.320 that you know, from a cynical perspective, the eth and saying what people 657 00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:54.599 want to hear sells books, It gets people into conferences. You know, 658 00:50:55.280 --> 00:51:00.320 I don't say what I think people want to hear. I say what I 659 00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:02.920 think's going on. I put the information out for people to seies. If 660 00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:07.920 they think I'm full of whatever, that's fine. If they gravitate towards it, 661 00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:10.719 that's fine, you know. But I'm not going to say, you 662 00:51:10.840 --> 00:51:14.400 know, what I think people want to hear, because oh, that's going 663 00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:16.599 to sell me another five thousand books, you know, that's right what I 664 00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:21.239 do. Now. I'm not saying most people do that consciously. I don't 665 00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:24.360 think they do. But there is a percentage where for a lot of people, 666 00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:30.079 ufology becomes like a belief system. You know, it's a it's aliens 667 00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:35.119 from Zeta reticuli and they're coming here because their race is dying and they need 668 00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:39.079 our DNA. You know and UFO has been back engineered at area fifty one. 669 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:45.440 That's kind of the scenario that we're almost led to accept as being true 670 00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:52.039 rather than being led to understand that it's just a theory. And so that's 671 00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:58.239 why, you know, to me, it would be dishonest to me to 672 00:51:59.239 --> 00:52:02.159 lock away in a filing cabinet. All the stories I've got where you know, 673 00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:07.519 things like somebody has poltergeist activity after seeing a UFO, or somebody else 674 00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:13.119 trips on d MT and they have a classic abduction experience. You know, 675 00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:15.719 if it's part of the phenomenon, just because it doesn't sit well in you 676 00:52:15.800 --> 00:52:20.440 know, what this person rights or that person rights, doesn't mean we should 677 00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:22.920 hide it, you know, be in a cabinet because we want to kiss 678 00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:25.920 that person's ass because we want to get on at their conference next year. 679 00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:30.480 Do you know what I mean? Right? No, that's that's to me, 680 00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:36.800 that's a terrible wrong approach. You know, if I if conference organizer 681 00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:37.920 says to me, what do you think about abductions? And I say, 682 00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:43.280 well, you know, I'm not going to sugarcoat it and say I think 683 00:52:43.320 --> 00:52:45.639 it's this or that because I want to speak of their conference. I'm going 684 00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:47.360 to say I think it's connected with this and that, and if you don't 685 00:52:47.360 --> 00:52:51.280 agree with it, you don't want to just speak that's cool, you know, 686 00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:55.360 it's your conference. You know, I kind of you know one of 687 00:52:55.440 --> 00:53:01.159 the films. One of the issues I have with being able to kind of, 688 00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:07.280 you know, adopt one of these ideas and stick to it. That 689 00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:10.800 there's a lot of people saying a lot of difference. There's so many people, 690 00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:14.920 and they all seem great, incredible, and I don't believe all these 691 00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:19.440 people to be Charlatan's suppose we don't talk to Zeta reticulans. But they don't 692 00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:23.559 all have the same story. There's people talking directilions or have stories about REFILM, 693 00:53:23.639 --> 00:53:27.719 but they don't all have the same story. And there are all these 694 00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:31.039 people sure that their story is the only story, but they all can't be 695 00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:35.760 right. And somehow there are a lot you know, these conferences that you 696 00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:39.000 talk will have several of these people, but they're not all saying the same 697 00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:45.000 thing. They're conflicting, and and the people going and attendance will sometimes believe 698 00:53:45.079 --> 00:53:47.440 all of them. But how can you if the stories aren't the same, 699 00:53:47.960 --> 00:53:52.639 Which leads to, like you said, something more complicated. Well, yeah, 700 00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:54.719 I mean, I mean don't get I actually encourage, you know, 701 00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:59.400 I mean, I would love it if somebody put at a conference where let's 702 00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:04.039 say hypothe particularly an abduction conference, and you had somebody talking about, you 703 00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:07.280 know, the whole issue of alien abductions. You had somebody talking about alien 704 00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:12.719 implants, but also you had somebody talking about the idea of things like sleep 705 00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:16.480 paralysis, somebody else talking about how, you know, something like a psychedelic 706 00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:22.559 could open a portal to really to another realm where these entities can interact with 707 00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:24.519 us. I actually really do believe that happens. It would be great if 708 00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:30.440 that could happen. But I just don't see the mainstream conferences going down that 709 00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:32.880 really alternative path, because, as you pointed out before, you know, 710 00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:37.000 it's much of an uphill battle already, particularly if you want to get scientists 711 00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:45.760 involved without suggesting, you know, undergoing some sort of DMT related you know, 712 00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:50.920 altered state. You know, most scientists are going to shy away from 713 00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:55.039 it. And I think most ufologists shy away from it because I think a 714 00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:59.360 lot of them want to be accepted by mainstream science. You know, I 715 00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:07.159 kind of I kind of view me my position as not an upholder of belief 716 00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:10.199 systems or theories, but someone who's just looking for answers. And that's precisely 717 00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:14.679 why sometimes my views on different things have changed over the years, you know. 718 00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:19.079 I mean, I've spoken to some UFO researchers who who clear I won't 719 00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:23.320 name them, he's not my place to name, but who clearly feel uncomfortable 720 00:55:23.639 --> 00:55:28.360 if they have to admit that ten years down the line their views on some 721 00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:31.119 sort of change. It's almost like they view it as they've failed if their 722 00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:34.760 views have changed. Well now, I mean, you know, it's kind 723 00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:38.360 of like, you know, it's it's kind of like if you're thirteen, 724 00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:42.039 you know, and you can't talk to girls, and suddenly at seventeen you 725 00:55:42.159 --> 00:55:45.199 can. You know, people change, you know what I mean. It's 726 00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:50.760 that sort of thing. And you know, if somebody believes that case number 727 00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:54.119 one or case number two involved you know, a secret aircraft in nineteen ninety 728 00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:58.440 seven, but by two thousand and seven they believe it involved a UFO, 729 00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:02.159 and then in two d and twelve they swing back to the whatever. To 730 00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:07.760 me, that's not a problem because we're dealing with an unknown phenomenon and so 731 00:56:08.599 --> 00:56:13.880 the onus and the responsibility is on us to present new data as when as 732 00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:17.199 and when we find it and if it changes our initial perceptions. Well, 733 00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:21.360 to me that we've been honest in saying, well, hey, you know, 734 00:56:21.559 --> 00:56:23.239 yeah, this is what I thought, but there's more data now that's 735 00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:27.559 pushing it down this path. That's one of the things I never really understand 736 00:56:27.559 --> 00:56:30.960 about upology. Why this person is like, oh, he's the guy who 737 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:36.079 believes aliens crashed at Roswell. He's the guy who thinks the mogul balloon crashed 738 00:56:36.079 --> 00:56:39.920 at Roswell. She's the abduction researcher. That person's the cattle mutilation person who 739 00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:45.920 thinks it's government experiments. That's the person who thinks cattle mutilations are done by 740 00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:49.440 aliens. This is the person who thinks it's the time travelers are coming, 741 00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:52.239 not aliens. This is the person who thinks he's reptilians. I don't understand 742 00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:58.119 why a lot of researchers end up pigeonholed. Why it can't just be the 743 00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:01.760 case that you investigate the phenomenon and you go where it goes, and if 744 00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:05.800 you've used change, we'll put the information out there explaining why. You know, 745 00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:09.360 yeah, I mean, that's that's all good, and it's science. 746 00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:14.360 I mean, there are a lot of scientists who they're sure this theory is 747 00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:17.599 probably what it is. But if there's a scientists have always done scientists have 748 00:57:17.719 --> 00:57:22.320 always done that, and they're always shown to be wrong, you know exactly, 749 00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:24.679 and a good scientists is open to that. We'll say, well I 750 00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:28.440 was wrong. You know, it turned out I was looking this way, 751 00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:30.679 but it went that way. And you know I used to think that this 752 00:57:31.199 --> 00:57:36.360 case, but due to our experience experiments, we've found out that that's not 753 00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:38.840 the case, that this is the case, you know, because things change, 754 00:57:38.920 --> 00:57:43.800 we find out more information, and you've got to go with the data. 755 00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:45.440 Oh well, I can tell exactly why. That is a lot of 756 00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:50.760 them for you. Reputations, you know, it's like, but with scientists 757 00:57:50.800 --> 00:57:54.320 it's not just reputation. It's also getting government grants, university grants, where 758 00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:59.559 they're fearful of losing that. But within euthology, I think it's mainly a 759 00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:01.920 fear of reputation. It's like if you change your view, change your mind, 760 00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:06.519 or you've lost your reputation. Well my view, you don't lose reputation, 761 00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:10.119 but to be to be I don't care about reputations. You know, 762 00:58:10.639 --> 00:58:14.400 people said, well, what about reputation, Well, I say, I 763 00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:15.719 ain't got one. You know, I do what I do. You know 764 00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:19.400 what I mean. If I say what I say, it's I don't. 765 00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:22.760 I don't really, I don't care it diging a hole and falling into it. 766 00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:27.960 You know, it's like it's not even on you know, it's on 767 00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:30.840 the radar. I don't. I don't feel like I have to apologize or 768 00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:36.880 whatever about having this view of that view, or this reputation or whatever. 769 00:58:37.000 --> 00:58:40.440 You know, it's just it's just what I do, right, And I 770 00:58:40.519 --> 00:58:44.719 know you're, like you said, you're very open to other people having their 771 00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:49.559 views and working out things from their area. And today I agree with you 772 00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:52.880 one hundred percent. I try to have a rated people on the show, 773 00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:57.039 and it's great. I want to hear people's ideas and what they think. 774 00:58:57.119 --> 00:59:00.800 I don't dat agree. I mean, I'll give you a good example, 775 00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:02.280 you know, when you talk when you just said about me being open to 776 00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:05.840 other people's views. I mean, you know, I wrote a book a 777 00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:10.159 few years ago, actually seven years ago now about Roswell with the possibility if 778 00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:15.440 it been some sort of sort of dark military experiments. Now, on the 779 00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:17.559 other hand, you have Kevin Randall, who's sort of you know, who 780 00:59:17.719 --> 00:59:22.280 thinks there's a very strong probability I think the Aliens crashed at Roswell. But 781 00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:28.199 you know, me and Kevin are friends, you know, and we don't 782 00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:31.519 let that stand between us. You know, last time I saw Kevin was 783 00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:37.000 at the move On conference last year. You know, we hung out for 784 00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:39.840 the weekend, just our booths, our tables were next to each other. 785 00:59:39.880 --> 00:59:43.880 We're just having a laugh, you know. But we have, i would 786 00:59:43.960 --> 00:59:47.800 say, fairly significantly different views on Roswell. But you know, I don't 787 00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:52.760 feel intimidated or I have to try and change Kevin's point of view. You 788 00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:57.320 know, My view is we're both looking for the truth about Roswell. It's 789 00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:02.119 a fascinating case where clearly the goverments, you know, the government's stance or 790 01:00:02.199 --> 01:00:07.480 its explanations just don't hold water or in terms of balloon, don't hold hot 791 01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:12.840 air, so to speak. And so we're both looking for answers. But 792 01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:15.400 you know, I don't feel the need to be defensive or you know, 793 01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:19.519 oh, well you're wrong and I'm right. No, you know, we're 794 01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:22.039 both looking for answers, and you should be able to do that and work 795 01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:27.320 well together even if you don't necessarily agree on anything. But unfortunately, within 796 01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:31.400 upology you don't often get that. You know, people get hostile if you're 797 01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:35.639 against what they believe. And I've never really got that. You know, 798 01:00:35.719 --> 01:00:37.679 It's like, we're all we're dealing with a mystery. If we're dealing with 799 01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:40.760 a mystery, well, you know, be open to the fact that it's 800 01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:45.000 a mystery. You know, it's not something that you've solved and everybody else 801 01:00:45.159 --> 01:00:49.679 is wrong. It's a mystery. So let's treated as a mystery. But 802 01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:52.559 let's work together. And if it falls in this camp, it falls in 803 01:00:52.679 --> 01:00:55.320 that camp. One of you is going to be right, one of is 804 01:00:55.360 --> 01:00:59.079 going to be wrong. But if if you're right or wrong, have the 805 01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:00.840 balls to admit to say I got it wrong, but they got it right. 806 01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:04.599 But the most important thing is we solved it, you know what I 807 01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:09.639 mean. Yeah, I hope that that continues in the future, that people 808 01:01:09.760 --> 01:01:14.519 become more open because I know, speaking of Roswell, you know, and 809 01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:19.559 I don't like that being out names either. It used to be that the 810 01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:23.599 Roswell different Roswell guys. You couldn't get them in a room together, refused 811 01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:28.119 to talk to each other, they didn't like each other. But these days 812 01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:30.079 you can do that now, and even though they disagree with each other, 813 01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:36.159 they can all be in the same room. They can and talking and friends. 814 01:01:36.280 --> 01:01:39.559 And now they have a shared history because they've been through all of this 815 01:01:39.719 --> 01:01:44.760 different stuff. You know, they've maybe even been battling each other, but 816 01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:49.440 more than that, so these other government theories that come forward that everybody agrees 817 01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:54.079 is ridiculous or not in some cases. And they've been to several conferences with 818 01:01:54.199 --> 01:01:57.880 each other, and now they see each other on a regular basis. I 819 01:01:58.119 --> 01:02:00.320 like to think that, and I hope that people are starting to get along 820 01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:04.519 better. Well, you know, I mean, I think that does happen. 821 01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:06.760 You know. I don't want to sort of, you know, sort 822 01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:09.840 of painted black and white, because it certainly is. You know. Again, 823 01:02:09.880 --> 01:02:13.559 I think what would be great if if somebody put on a Roswell theme 824 01:02:13.639 --> 01:02:16.480 conference where you know, they had somebody talking about what the military might have 825 01:02:16.519 --> 01:02:22.159 been doing at White Sands in New Mexico, somebody else talking about the definitive 826 01:02:22.519 --> 01:02:25.719 alien angle, somebody else. Maybe it'd be great if you have somebody from 827 01:02:25.719 --> 01:02:29.559 there from the Air Force even talking about the crash test dummies, you know, 828 01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:35.480 and there afterwards have a roundtable discussion Q and A where the audience can 829 01:02:35.519 --> 01:02:38.800 ask questions and it's all out in the open, you know. I think 830 01:02:38.840 --> 01:02:42.679 that would be that would be great, you know, And I don't understand 831 01:02:42.760 --> 01:02:45.800 why there's this sort of hostility of or we don't want that person there because 832 01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:52.199 he believes weird stuff. You know. Yeah, here's a question for you 833 01:02:52.079 --> 01:03:01.159 kind of to put you back. Is then the tempition that went to the 834 01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:08.199 White House about it was very pointedly, of course, extraterrestrial base. What 835 01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:12.679 were your thoughts on that? Well, you know, I mean I don't 836 01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:15.480 mind, you know, being extraterrestrial base, because you know, this was 837 01:03:16.360 --> 01:03:20.599 a petition that you know, was put together, you know, unfair, 838 01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:22.800 you know, and let's give you know, kudos to the person who put 839 01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:25.679 it, you know, the people who put it together, because that they're 840 01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:30.039 actually doing something. They're getting you know, off the couch or whatever and 841 01:03:30.559 --> 01:03:36.119 making a move the I don't have any problem with that. The only problem 842 01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:42.360 I have with things like petitions and petitioning for disclosure and stuff like that is 843 01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:47.840 that I always think it's a little bit naive to believe that just because thousands 844 01:03:49.000 --> 01:03:55.320 or hundreds of thousands even people demand something that people in government are actually going 845 01:03:55.360 --> 01:03:59.320 to listen and act upon it. You know, maybe that makes me cynical, 846 01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:02.199 and it probably does to do a degree, but it's kind of like, 847 01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:06.159 you know, if aliens did crash at Roswell, and despite what some 848 01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:09.360 people have said, you know, I don't rule that out at all. 849 01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:13.760 You know, I think if it wasn't a dark and dubish military experiment, 850 01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:18.760 it was something definitively non human. You know. Again, whether extraterrestrial in 851 01:04:18.760 --> 01:04:21.800 is a dimensional or something, you know, I don't. I don't give 852 01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:28.360 any leeway for like weather balloons and crash the dumbies and Mogul balloons. So 853 01:04:28.519 --> 01:04:31.199 in that respect, you know, if the if the government's deepest and darkest 854 01:04:31.239 --> 01:04:35.119 secret about UFOs is that, yes, aliens really crashed at Roswell and for 855 01:04:35.199 --> 01:04:39.679 whatever reason, they don't want to tell us. You know, if that 856 01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:43.760 is the truth, and it could be even if a million people petition the 857 01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:48.159 governments no disrespect to the people who plan the petition, but if they really 858 01:04:48.280 --> 01:04:51.239 are, if they've got that secret, but it's so deep for a specific 859 01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:58.119 reason, why on earth would they release that information just because somebody put sense 860 01:04:58.119 --> 01:05:01.079 in a petition, right, you know. To me, again, I 861 01:05:01.159 --> 01:05:05.599 don't want to take away the importance of what people are doing or the fact 862 01:05:05.639 --> 01:05:10.800 that they're actually motivated to do it. That is all important stuff. Without 863 01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:15.320 motivation in the subject, it will stagnate and get stale. So we need 864 01:05:15.440 --> 01:05:17.519 that. But on the other hand, we need to look at the history 865 01:05:17.599 --> 01:05:24.199 of government or governments, you know, throughout history. You know, they 866 01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:27.199 want to get elected, they want to get the person's vote, but when 867 01:05:27.239 --> 01:05:30.519 they're in, you know, it's like do what I say, you know, 868 01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:40.239 And I think the issue of actually respond you know, actually releasing the 869 01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:44.960 truth about Roswell because one hundred people, one hundred thousand people want to know. 870 01:05:45.719 --> 01:05:47.920 You know, I probably dropped down in a dead feint. If the 871 01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:51.280 government said, oh, we're going to release the truth about Roswell because fifty 872 01:05:51.320 --> 01:05:57.760 thousand people asked us to, that's not going to happen. You know, 873 01:05:58.079 --> 01:06:00.360 that is not going to happen. You know. It's kind of like somebody. 874 01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:03.159 To me, that's like somebody saying I'm never gonna work because I'm going 875 01:06:03.199 --> 01:06:05.639 to buy the lottery ticket every week and one day I'm going to win it, 876 01:06:06.719 --> 01:06:13.079 you know exactly so and so your point of view and is, and 877 01:06:13.199 --> 01:06:15.360 I agree with you, it's a great effort. It got it gets public 878 01:06:15.840 --> 01:06:18.559 interested, and there are a lot of people who, you know, that's 879 01:06:18.599 --> 01:06:24.840 what they want to see exactly the way it happened happened. But I wouldn't 880 01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:27.599 be fair to say, in your point of view, no matter how well 881 01:06:27.679 --> 01:06:30.639 written it was, even if it wasn't based on extraterrestrials and it was based 882 01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:36.119 on you know, some more really heavy hard nuts and books UFO cases, 883 01:06:36.519 --> 01:06:41.360 that no matter how well it's worth it, no petition coming from the public 884 01:06:41.519 --> 01:06:44.719 is going to have an effect. No, I don't think it will. 885 01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:47.320 And of course the other problem is the other problem, the biggest problem, 886 01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:51.320 one of the biggest, but the other problem is that you know, who 887 01:06:51.400 --> 01:06:55.119 do you send the who are you sending petition to? You said, you 888 01:06:55.159 --> 01:06:59.840 know, to the presidential office basically, which you know they're in if they're 889 01:07:00.199 --> 01:07:02.199 lucky they're in for two terms. You know, they may just be in 890 01:07:02.239 --> 01:07:08.000 for one term. Bear in mind, you know that the president, you 891 01:07:08.079 --> 01:07:11.719 know, isn't sort of a fountain of knowledge on everything. You know, 892 01:07:11.840 --> 01:07:16.239 they rely on information provided by their advisers. Some of these people, you 893 01:07:16.280 --> 01:07:19.679 know, whether they're in the CIA, the NSA, you know, Air 894 01:07:19.760 --> 01:07:23.480 Force Intelligence, they're there for years. You know, you may have a 895 01:07:23.559 --> 01:07:27.360 president who's in power for four years. So in other words, you're sending 896 01:07:27.440 --> 01:07:32.559 it to the White House and by default the presidents who gets his information from 897 01:07:32.639 --> 01:07:39.199 advisors. In other words, the real keepers of the secrets are not the 898 01:07:39.320 --> 01:07:43.320 public face. The public face is the president. The real sort of movers 899 01:07:43.360 --> 01:07:47.920 and shakers and the string pullers are the people behind the scenes. And you 900 01:07:48.039 --> 01:07:53.119 know, it's kind of like we know throughout history, certainly from the Cold 901 01:07:53.199 --> 01:07:57.920 War era onwards, that things have gone on in the intelligence communities that the 902 01:07:58.000 --> 01:08:01.679 elected officials know nothing about. So you know, again there's this sort of 903 01:08:01.800 --> 01:08:04.760 naivety as I see it, that, well, if anybody's going to know, 904 01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:09.000 the White House has got to know. You know, ironically, the 905 01:08:09.400 --> 01:08:13.960 White House hasn't necessarily got to know what happened at Roswell. Know, it 906 01:08:14.079 --> 01:08:16.720 could well be that the secret is so deeply buried and held. In fact, 907 01:08:16.720 --> 01:08:19.640 that's what I actually believed, whatever happened, I think the secret is 908 01:08:19.680 --> 01:08:25.319 actually not known far and wide within the government. I think that the very 909 01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:29.640 fact that it's kept secret is because the number of people who know is actually 910 01:08:30.239 --> 01:08:35.720 probably incredibly small, and they actually choose who to bring into the fold, 911 01:08:35.800 --> 01:08:39.279 if you like, and who not to bring in, and at times, 912 01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:42.840 you know, that may include not bringing in presidents. You know, if 913 01:08:42.880 --> 01:08:48.199 the secret's right, they've confidently got that secret buried so deep that no one 914 01:08:48.319 --> 01:08:54.159 can penetrate it. They may well have the last word on who they let 915 01:08:54.880 --> 01:08:58.840 in on the truth. You know. Yeah, these guys who wrote these 916 01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:01.680 reports, the Air Force, I don't believe necessarily they were just you know, 917 01:09:01.960 --> 01:09:05.800 secret keepers are trying to do a hatchet chop. They could have genuinely 918 01:09:05.920 --> 01:09:11.319 thought they were doing a good job investigating this. I just don't think they 919 01:09:11.520 --> 01:09:15.159 even have access to the information. Well, actually, glad you said that, 920 01:09:15.319 --> 01:09:17.720 because that is my personal opinion, and there aren't many people who take 921 01:09:17.760 --> 01:09:19.960 that view. You know. On the one hand, you have the skeptics 922 01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:23.920 who champion it and say, oh, yeah, finally the Air Force solved 923 01:09:23.960 --> 01:09:28.920 it. On the other hand, you have a lot of pro roswell researchers 924 01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:31.039 and people who say, oh, this is just an evil government report, 925 01:09:31.239 --> 01:09:35.439 you know, right, I agree with you that that is my personal stance 926 01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:41.000 is that, you know, I think what happened is that the Air Force 927 01:09:41.840 --> 01:09:45.560 had been forced for years to deal with Roswell, took the view that probably 928 01:09:45.640 --> 01:09:49.800 something strange did happen, but were baffled by the fact that they'd made sort 929 01:09:49.800 --> 01:09:54.279 of a cursory study of their files and couldn't find anything at all, And 930 01:09:54.399 --> 01:09:57.479 they were getting more and more people knocking on the door, and they were 931 01:09:57.560 --> 01:09:59.600 like, well, enough's enough, you know, we've got to make a 932 01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:04.439 for effort to find stuff. They went looking and actually couldn't find anything at 933 01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:08.840 all. You know, contrary to what a lot of people believe, you 934 01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:12.680 know, all this stuff about Mogil balloons and crash test dummies, these were 935 01:10:12.760 --> 01:10:15.000 theories on the part of the Air Force. They actually didn't. They found 936 01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:20.279 files on crash test dummies and files on Mogle balloons, but nothing's actually tied 937 01:10:20.600 --> 01:10:25.159 Moga balloons and crash test dummies to Roswell. So, in other words, 938 01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:28.920 I actually believe that if this had been a hatchet job or a cover up, 939 01:10:29.560 --> 01:10:33.319 they would have done a better job of actually proving their point. They 940 01:10:33.359 --> 01:10:36.119 would have come up with something, but hey, you know, this proves 941 01:10:36.159 --> 01:10:39.520 it. But by their own mission, they said, well, you know, 942 01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:42.520 we've looked, we haven't found anything, but we think this is what 943 01:10:42.720 --> 01:10:46.079 it is. To me, that does sound more like a best attempt to 944 01:10:46.199 --> 01:10:51.439 solve it rather than some evil bunch of guys trying to hide it. And 945 01:10:51.560 --> 01:10:56.439 I think the irony is, you know, sixty four years after Roswell happened, 946 01:10:57.119 --> 01:10:59.880 the evidence, the body, is the craft, whatever they were, 947 01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:04.439 were sort of shuttled out of Roswell at high speed to somewhere, you know, 948 01:11:04.760 --> 01:11:08.600 whether they whether they're still in the same place or there's like a new 949 01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:13.000 sort of forty fied underground location forum. I don't know, but I think 950 01:11:13.079 --> 01:11:16.920 whoever has access to that material, you know, may I ironically not include 951 01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:20.960 the people and probably didn't include the people who wrote the Roswell reports. You 952 01:11:21.079 --> 01:11:26.199 know, we often, I think we sometimes give governments too much credit. 953 01:11:26.319 --> 01:11:30.039 You know, the idea that you joined the CIA and you're suddenly told about 954 01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:33.399 what happened at Roswell and who killed Kennedy. You know, it didn't work 955 01:11:33.520 --> 01:11:36.880 like that. You know, if you've joined the CIA and you're you know, 956 01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:41.880 you're fluent in Chinese, they're going to put you on analyzing, you 957 01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:47.720 know, listening on Chinese coding messages DFT. And here's how we did it. 958 01:11:48.319 --> 01:11:50.960 Yeah, that that that that doesn't happen. You know, that's just 959 01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:55.399 bizarre. You know, it just doesn't happen. And I think, you 960 01:11:55.479 --> 01:12:00.239 know, people should look more at how government works and how information is withheld, 961 01:12:00.800 --> 01:12:04.520 even from government agencies. And I think I think that applies to the 962 01:12:04.640 --> 01:12:10.039 Roswell report. I don't hold the Air Force at falls at all with those 963 01:12:10.119 --> 01:12:14.640 reports. I think they did their best efforts when faced with a realization that 964 01:12:15.199 --> 01:12:18.239 wow, we've not found anything, but clearly something did happen that wasn't a 965 01:12:18.319 --> 01:12:23.439 weather balloons. Yeah. I think you know, to your point earlier about 966 01:12:23.479 --> 01:12:29.640 the president's you know, even Clinton regarding the same issue, you have both 967 01:12:29.680 --> 01:12:31.239 said, you know, if you looked into it, they did reports, 968 01:12:32.199 --> 01:12:35.000 but he said they could have waited to me. I don't think I would 969 01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:41.079 be the first president that career bureaucrats have kept information from No. And I 970 01:12:41.199 --> 01:12:44.359 think, you know, sometimes I think, you know, it may not 971 01:12:44.520 --> 01:12:47.520 just as I said that it's kept from him. Even his advisors may not 972 01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:51.720 know where the information is. You know, they get their advice from further 973 01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:56.920 advisors, you know, and eventually the book stops with someone. But you 974 01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:00.600 know, it's it's like who knows who sitting on the secret and you know, 975 01:13:00.760 --> 01:13:03.840 when when the lie or the distortion begins, you know, it may 976 01:13:03.880 --> 01:13:08.760 be three uplisers down the line, not just you know, oh yeah, 977 01:13:08.840 --> 01:13:11.119 let's just see the president, you know, and it's all being done in 978 01:13:11.239 --> 01:13:14.600 the White House. You know, it could be three agencies or three people 979 01:13:14.680 --> 01:13:17.199 down the line who are feeding the fake stories or whatever. You know. 980 01:13:17.359 --> 01:13:20.279 Thinking about the same subject, I think in the other day, it could 981 01:13:20.439 --> 01:13:26.199 be that some of this stuff is so buried and so secret, and so 982 01:13:26.359 --> 01:13:30.199 if you know about it or in the loop, there could be many many 983 01:13:30.359 --> 01:13:35.399 projects out there that have been long forgotten and perhaps every player is no longer 984 01:13:35.479 --> 01:13:42.039 with us, you know, boxes like like Inannah Jones, where there's some 985 01:13:42.199 --> 01:13:45.760 sort of artifact with a report, but nobody even remembers it's Derek because all 986 01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:49.560 the people who recovered it work on this secret project, kept it so secret 987 01:13:49.600 --> 01:13:53.840 and they're all dead. Nobody knows it. No, that's right, And 988 01:13:53.920 --> 01:13:56.640 I think, you know, on that same line, and important thing is 989 01:13:56.800 --> 01:13:59.560 that, you know, there's no doubt in my mind that you know, 990 01:13:59.640 --> 01:14:04.800 coming up to Roswell that the government has probably you know, even if the 991 01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:11.800 government wasn't responsible for creating like the Mogul and the crash test dummy stories as 992 01:14:11.920 --> 01:14:15.640 cover stories. I'm pretty sure that whoever's in the know is happy that those 993 01:14:15.680 --> 01:14:18.439 stories are out there, you know, and I'm sure they've encouraged a lot 994 01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:23.600 of confusion over the subject over the years. But the interesting thing is that 995 01:14:23.720 --> 01:14:30.119 when you start spreading confusion and cover stories in the military after twenty thirty years, 996 01:14:30.319 --> 01:14:33.520 forty years, those guys who've long retired and said, well, I 997 01:14:33.600 --> 01:14:38.039 read a file you know that said a Mogil balloon came down to Roswell, 998 01:14:38.560 --> 01:14:44.000 not realizing that was a faked documents, you know, to sort of confuse 999 01:14:44.039 --> 01:14:46.920 the issue even more. In other words, thirty years down the line, 1000 01:14:46.960 --> 01:14:51.920 it's not just that everybody's died. It's like with conflicting stories, even the 1001 01:14:53.520 --> 01:14:58.720 government doesn't know what it knows and doesn't know which documents are true or which 1002 01:14:58.800 --> 01:15:03.760 documents were put out as like a psychological warfare cover story, And somebody may 1003 01:15:03.880 --> 01:15:10.199 legitimately go to their grave believing that because they saw a file saying crash test 1004 01:15:10.279 --> 01:15:14.560 dummies came down to Roswell. But that's what the bodies were not realizing. 1005 01:15:14.640 --> 01:15:19.439 Maybe that you know, somebody was purposefully encouraging maybe even encouraging the air force 1006 01:15:19.520 --> 01:15:25.880 to go with that angle. You know that he's light so much, including 1007 01:15:25.960 --> 01:15:29.199 to each other and themselves, and nobody knows that too, is anyone. 1008 01:15:29.560 --> 01:15:31.600 Yeah, that may be that there could just be like a small you know, 1009 01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:35.239 thirty four people who I mean, the the biggest, the biggest irony 1010 01:15:35.279 --> 01:15:39.479 could be that if Aliens did crash at Roswell, there could just be like 1011 01:15:39.560 --> 01:15:45.079 some underground vault with you know, the remains of a crash UFO six or 1012 01:15:45.119 --> 01:15:47.840 seven bodies in frozen storage, and the government and the people in the know 1013 01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:51.359 thinking well, we've got this material, What the hell would do we do 1014 01:15:51.479 --> 01:15:54.119 with it? You know, they just go in and look at it once 1015 01:15:54.159 --> 01:15:58.159 a day, make sure it's still there. They can't tell anybody about it. 1016 01:15:58.279 --> 01:16:02.279 It's so advanced they can't even even back engineer. It's all they know 1017 01:16:02.520 --> 01:16:06.800 is that they picked something up sixty four years ago that isn't human and it's 1018 01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:11.239 a huge albatross around the next because they don't know what to do with it, 1019 01:16:11.600 --> 01:16:14.960 so they just bury it and just look at it through the door panel 1020 01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:19.279 once and died like whoa you know, yeah exactly. That wouldn't surprise me 1021 01:16:19.319 --> 01:16:24.840 if that wasn't the truth of the scenarios. It's cynical and it's kind of 1022 01:16:24.880 --> 01:16:28.640 a nineteen eighty view of things or something that's over bureaucracy. But I think 1023 01:16:28.760 --> 01:16:32.880 that's entirely possible. I fully agree with that. I did want to ask 1024 01:16:32.920 --> 01:16:40.359 you about also because of your view of extraterrestrials and you're open minded this various 1025 01:16:40.399 --> 01:16:44.720 different possibilities out there, but also your interesting contact these, which I think 1026 01:16:44.840 --> 01:16:49.600 is great because there's a lot of history or some mythology of it's built that 1027 01:16:49.720 --> 01:16:54.560 it's getting forgotten, and this is one that the media never picked up on 1028 01:16:54.680 --> 01:16:57.159 it, and un let's you know, some of us talk about it who 1029 01:16:57.199 --> 01:17:00.239 are aware of it. It's going to get forgotten. And that's all whole 1030 01:17:00.319 --> 01:17:04.119 contact era the fifties, which was huge, thousands of people meeting in the 1031 01:17:04.199 --> 01:17:09.920 desert in California to see these contact these talks, and all of these people 1032 01:17:10.119 --> 01:17:15.640 had in some cases some fairly credible cases of talking with extraterrestrials. What do 1033 01:17:15.720 --> 01:17:17.840 you think about the contact ease in that era? Oh, well, I'm 1034 01:17:18.000 --> 01:17:21.079 very interested in the whole contact team movement. In fact, actually, in 1035 01:17:21.079 --> 01:17:25.720 fact, I wrote a book in two thousand and nine with the with the 1036 01:17:25.760 --> 01:17:32.359 stunningly original title of contact Teams. Yet yeah, you know, just so 1037 01:17:33.039 --> 01:17:35.920 just so people would know what it was called. Yeah, dumb it down 1038 01:17:36.039 --> 01:17:40.199 or whatever. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean the contact 1039 01:17:40.239 --> 01:17:42.880 team movement. You know, it gets a really bad rap today. You 1040 01:17:42.920 --> 01:17:46.640 know, everybody's cooled with abductions and little gray guys with black eyes and huge 1041 01:17:46.680 --> 01:17:50.680 heads and you know, stealing DNA and eggs and spurm et cetera, and 1042 01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:56.840 missing time because that sounds more credible and scientific, which you know it does. 1043 01:17:58.119 --> 01:18:00.960 A lot of people within eupology they're almost kind of embarrassed to deal with 1044 01:18:01.119 --> 01:18:08.439 the sort of you know, the long haired space hippie space brother type of 1045 01:18:08.560 --> 01:18:12.720 characters of the nineteen fifties. You know, the typical scenario for people listening 1046 01:18:12.760 --> 01:18:15.600 who you know might not be fully conversant with the early years of uthology, 1047 01:18:15.640 --> 01:18:19.880 you know, contacts hees were people who claimed, I mean chiefly sort of 1048 01:18:19.960 --> 01:18:24.199 kicked off in the early fifties, although there are a lot of parallels with 1049 01:18:25.199 --> 01:18:29.960 ancient reports and latter day stories, but kicked off chiefly in the early fifties, 1050 01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:32.199 where a lot of people, particularly across the US, but also across 1051 01:18:32.239 --> 01:18:39.439 the world claimed face to face contact with very human looking aliens often described slightly 1052 01:18:39.520 --> 01:18:42.359 shorter than us, are sometimes taller than us, but very often we like 1053 01:18:42.439 --> 01:18:45.199 heads of long blonde hair. This is for the men as well, you 1054 01:18:45.239 --> 01:18:47.800 know, which wasn't certainly sort of part of the course, you know, 1055 01:18:47.920 --> 01:18:50.880 in sort of nineteen fifties America. You know, you definitely look twice if 1056 01:18:50.920 --> 01:18:55.039 he saw a guy with the like long blonde hair halfway down his back, 1057 01:18:55.119 --> 01:18:59.600 you know what I mean. And you know they would a lot of them 1058 01:18:59.720 --> 01:19:03.319 had previous interest in UFOs but felt compelled for whatever reason, you know, 1059 01:19:03.399 --> 01:19:09.159 to go out to like remote desert locations in San Nevada or the California desert 1060 01:19:09.239 --> 01:19:12.399 and just wait, not knowing why, you know, And then they'd say, 1061 01:19:12.479 --> 01:19:16.319 this sort of gleaming flying source would come down, These human almost like 1062 01:19:17.239 --> 01:19:21.439 early flower Power equivalent aliens would come out of these craft, and you know, 1063 01:19:21.479 --> 01:19:27.319 there'd be this sort of philosophical exchange all about nuclear war and how we 1064 01:19:27.399 --> 01:19:30.640 need to disarm our atomic weapons and living peace and harmony. You know. 1065 01:19:30.760 --> 01:19:35.159 It very much was like an early sort of equivalent of you know, sort 1066 01:19:35.159 --> 01:19:39.880 of the peace movement that came with the you know, Vietnam War protests in 1067 01:19:39.960 --> 01:19:43.079 the sixties, but it was, you know, the message supposedly coming from 1068 01:19:43.079 --> 01:19:48.880 aliens. Now, for the most part, researchers of the Contact Team movement 1069 01:19:48.920 --> 01:19:51.199 sort of place it into two camps. You know, you've got the people 1070 01:19:51.239 --> 01:19:54.920 who say, you know, this is just total nonsense. You know, 1071 01:19:55.039 --> 01:19:59.800 the idea of aliens coming from wherever, looking just like us, talking like 1072 01:20:00.119 --> 01:20:03.920 us, dressing in like pilot's flight suits, long blonde hair, telling us 1073 01:20:03.960 --> 01:20:09.199 to disarmaias, and turning up in the you know, New Mexico desert or 1074 01:20:09.239 --> 01:20:12.560 the desert of California, and just chatting with people. And then on the 1075 01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:15.399 other hand, you have people interpret the stories literally. But I kind of 1076 01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:21.000 take a different view, the idea that the experiences I believe were genuine, 1077 01:20:21.279 --> 01:20:28.439 and I believe they were genuine experiences with some sort of alien phenomenon. Alien 1078 01:20:28.520 --> 01:20:32.039 in the sense of non human, whether alien in the terms of extraterrestrial or 1079 01:20:32.279 --> 01:20:35.960 something else, you know, interdimensional whatever, I don't know, but certainly 1080 01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:43.319 nonhuman. What I think and what I sort of discussed chiefly my Contact Tees 1081 01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:47.199 book was the idea that we're dealing with an intelligence that has the ability to 1082 01:20:47.319 --> 01:20:54.239 interact with the human mind and kind of get into our subconscious and what it 1083 01:20:54.399 --> 01:20:59.920 does, it kind of manifests in a fashion that's acceptable and applicable to the 1084 01:21:00.079 --> 01:21:02.520 people of the time. So in other words, it's almost like belve. 1085 01:21:02.520 --> 01:21:05.680 What I believe has happened is that the person has gone out, you know, 1086 01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:10.439 say nineteen fifty four, they go out to the California desert. They 1087 01:21:10.520 --> 01:21:13.800 have this experience which is very much like a shamanic experience, you know, 1088 01:21:14.439 --> 01:21:17.479 thousands of years ago, going up to the mountain and communing with the gods, 1089 01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:23.399 you know, or angels. But today it's like long haired, angelic 1090 01:21:23.479 --> 01:21:28.800 looking aliens, and there's this sort of philosophical exchange about how we need to 1091 01:21:28.880 --> 01:21:31.279 live our lives, which, you know, this gets into controversial territory, 1092 01:21:31.319 --> 01:21:36.319 but it's not much different to Moses going up Mounts Sinai and receiving the Ten 1093 01:21:36.359 --> 01:21:40.439 Commandments, which happen to tell you how to leave your life. You know, 1094 01:21:41.079 --> 01:21:45.079 there's not much difference. And I think this phenomena has the ability to 1095 01:21:45.159 --> 01:21:50.359 sort of pull imagery from our subconscious and appear for us in a fashion that 1096 01:21:50.479 --> 01:21:54.680 is acceptable to us. So I think, in other words, I don't 1097 01:21:54.760 --> 01:22:00.640 believe the contact tees had literal face to face encounters with long headed aliens coming 1098 01:22:00.680 --> 01:22:04.199 from nuts and bolt spacecraft. But that was the pop culture imagery through Hollywood 1099 01:22:04.239 --> 01:22:09.560 movies like Daily Earth Stood Still and Invaders from Mars and all these sorts of 1100 01:22:09.600 --> 01:22:14.760 films that existed at the time. People were aware of that imagery in the 1101 01:22:14.840 --> 01:22:17.560 same way that today people aware of like the are aware of like the gray, 1102 01:22:18.079 --> 01:22:24.199 black eyed alien imagery. And I think certain encounters today that fall into 1103 01:22:24.239 --> 01:22:28.680 that category are due to the mind being manipulated. I think this phenomenon, 1104 01:22:29.399 --> 01:22:31.199 whatever it is, wants to interact with us, who wants to teach us, 1105 01:22:31.239 --> 01:22:34.560 wants to tell us things. But I'm not sure we've ever seen it 1106 01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:42.000 in its real, original, raw form. I think we're seeing some like 1107 01:22:42.159 --> 01:22:46.600 almost like a hologram or something, an imagery instilled in our minds that we're 1108 01:22:46.640 --> 01:22:49.840 comfortable with. And I think, you know, when you find out that 1109 01:22:49.920 --> 01:22:55.600 some of the contactees, for example, you know they contacted their space brothers 1110 01:22:55.840 --> 01:23:00.239 not by going out into the desert, but by esp or. I mean 1111 01:23:00.279 --> 01:23:05.159 one George Fantassel, he said his contact was initially maybe what he called thought 1112 01:23:05.279 --> 01:23:11.279 transfers are what we call esp. George Hunt Williamson made his initial contacts by 1113 01:23:11.359 --> 01:23:15.119 WIGI boards. Others did go out into the desert. Others felt that they 1114 01:23:15.439 --> 01:23:19.600 fell asleep and then entered like a trance like state where these entities then entered 1115 01:23:19.640 --> 01:23:25.920 the person's dream state, as if they literally invaded the person's dreams. And 1116 01:23:26.079 --> 01:23:30.720 I think what this tells me is that many of the contactees had experiences with 1117 01:23:30.880 --> 01:23:34.840 something, but it's clear when you read their accounts they were having these experiences 1118 01:23:35.359 --> 01:23:40.960 in altered states. And I think that's an important thing that that's why I 1119 01:23:41.039 --> 01:23:45.760 believe their stories are real, but I don't take them literally black and white 1120 01:23:45.760 --> 01:23:49.840 as encounters with you know, Commander zag Of from Venus. You know, 1121 01:23:50.279 --> 01:23:55.920 that was the pop culture imagery that they were ripping from people's minds and manifesting 1122 01:23:56.000 --> 01:23:59.720 in that form. And I think the Contact team movement is a fascinating one 1123 01:23:59.760 --> 01:24:05.119 because I really do believe it demonstrates for me, at least undeniable contact with 1124 01:24:05.279 --> 01:24:12.399 something. When we get past the sort of camouflage imagery they use to interact 1125 01:24:12.439 --> 01:24:15.079 with us, then we kind of say beyond the veil, if you like, 1126 01:24:15.199 --> 01:24:19.840 beyond the curtain as to who or whatever this phenomenon really is right, 1127 01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:25.000 and that's why I love it because it is I think, you know, 1128 01:24:25.159 --> 01:24:30.119 it's it's so enigmatic that it's hard to put its kind of figure it out. 1129 01:24:30.239 --> 01:24:34.439 These people seem to have these experiences. At one hand, they're being 1130 01:24:34.479 --> 01:24:40.720 told these extremely wise things that we really need to hear as of culture as 1131 01:24:40.800 --> 01:24:44.920 individuals. On the other hand, here being told these crazy things that you 1132 01:24:45.000 --> 01:24:48.000 know, many would disregard it's certainly not true, such as you know, 1133 01:24:48.159 --> 01:24:51.840 maybe coming from the moon and the other side of the moon has gardens and 1134 01:24:51.920 --> 01:24:58.000 it's beautiful, and so because one side is definitely not true, the whole 1135 01:24:58.720 --> 01:25:01.960 the baby's throwing out with the backwater and the whole phenomenon is disregard it. 1136 01:25:02.439 --> 01:25:06.439 But I agree with you that it is something important that shouldn't be forgotten. 1137 01:25:08.520 --> 01:25:11.359 Yeah, and I think you just hit on a very important point there that 1138 01:25:11.479 --> 01:25:14.840 the issue of how it's you know, it's it's this or that is black 1139 01:25:14.920 --> 01:25:17.079 or it's white, you know, no pun intended, is often gray. 1140 01:25:17.359 --> 01:25:21.800 You know. It's like, you know, it's kind of like that's why 1141 01:25:21.840 --> 01:25:26.640 I said, Yeah, it's kind of like it's kind of like the contact 1142 01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:29.880 teas I said, they get a bad rap, because you know, on 1143 01:25:30.000 --> 01:25:32.399 the one hand, you have the people who interpret all literally and they're laughed 1144 01:25:32.439 --> 01:25:34.880 at saying, you know, oh, yeah, these aliens come from Venus. 1145 01:25:35.239 --> 01:25:39.199 On the other hand, you know, you have a lot of academic 1146 01:25:39.279 --> 01:25:45.279 people and scientific people who if they'd look beyond the just the front window image, 1147 01:25:45.319 --> 01:25:47.479 if you like, and just say no, this is nonsense, there's 1148 01:25:47.520 --> 01:25:51.279 no life on Venus, but then looked further into these accounts and see how 1149 01:25:51.359 --> 01:25:58.279 people who were clearly rendered into altered states or their perception was being manipulated. 1150 01:25:58.680 --> 01:26:01.760 I think we can actually learn a great deal from the contact tees, and 1151 01:26:01.840 --> 01:26:08.600 in many cases, studying their cases could be the key to actually understanding a 1152 01:26:08.680 --> 01:26:15.439 great deal about the nature of the intelligence behind the phenomenon. Possibly even you 1153 01:26:15.520 --> 01:26:18.600 know, we could learn far more from them than we could from today's abductees. 1154 01:26:19.000 --> 01:26:23.760 But it's kind of like a taboo area that oh, it's just that 1155 01:26:23.960 --> 01:26:27.920 ridiculous crap from the fifties, you know, And what you know what, 1156 01:26:28.079 --> 01:26:30.000 there's so much to say about this topic, and I love this topic, 1157 01:26:30.079 --> 01:26:33.239 and I think it would hit on something really important. I think it'd be 1158 01:26:33.319 --> 01:26:36.279 fun to talk about that. I want to have you on again in the 1159 01:26:36.359 --> 01:26:42.359 future hopefully not too far, and we'll hit this topic in particular and move 1160 01:26:42.439 --> 01:26:45.239 on to the contactees of today because it's so interesting. But right now we're 1161 01:26:45.279 --> 01:26:49.760 out of time. We've got missing time almost yeah, I think so, 1162 01:26:49.920 --> 01:26:54.520 there's always missing time, you know, and we get interested in it builds 1163 01:26:54.600 --> 01:26:57.279 like you know, two minutes to pass by an not a whole hour. 1164 01:26:57.840 --> 01:27:01.880 But I thank you so much for coming on. The show was really interesting. 1165 01:27:02.279 --> 01:27:06.119 And where's the best place for people to go find information and read your 1166 01:27:06.159 --> 01:27:10.439 books? Well, people can con well, people can find out more and 1167 01:27:10.560 --> 01:27:15.239 also contact me at Nick Redferns books dot blogspot dot com. Okay, Nick 1168 01:27:15.319 --> 01:27:21.319 Redferends books dot blogspot dot com, blog, popotlogs, all right, and 1169 01:27:21.399 --> 01:27:26.720 they could google you and you'll find all kinds of stuff, including full pictures 1170 01:27:26.720 --> 01:27:32.319 of you do and your different blackyear old poses. All right, thank you 1171 01:27:32.439 --> 01:27:36.039 so much for being on the show. Like I said before, and you 1172 01:27:36.119 --> 01:27:40.680 know, we'll talk soon. It's been a really interesting show. Well, 1173 01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:45.119 thanks Andrew, appreciate it. Thank you, thank you, and we are 1174 01:27:46.000 --> 01:27:49.840 out of time. Everybody, like Nick said, you know, go google 1175 01:27:49.960 --> 01:27:56.359 him Nick redfernsbooks dot blogspot dot com. I think I got that right. 1176 01:27:56.680 --> 01:28:00.279 So check him out and buy his books because they're very interesting. And I 1177 01:28:00.399 --> 01:28:03.000 really think, you know, this open mindedness and this being open to all 1178 01:28:03.079 --> 01:28:09.800 the different aspects but also not you know, hiding anything is so important because 1179 01:28:09.800 --> 01:28:16.359 it's phenomena tells us a lot about ourselves and you know, those consciousnesses that 1180 01:28:16.600 --> 01:28:20.199 are external to us. So it's a lot of fun to talk about this 1181 01:28:20.319 --> 01:28:26.039 stuff. We are out of time. Thank you so much for joining us 1182 01:28:26.119 --> 01:28:30.640 at open Minds TV. Don't forget to visit open minds dot tv for the 1183 01:28:30.720 --> 01:28:34.520 latest news. And again, like I said, you know, go visit 1184 01:28:34.600 --> 01:28:43.600 my Huffington Post blogs that I'll keep posting, and also ufodailynews dot com for 1185 01:28:44.119 --> 01:28:46.600 more UFO news. And that's where I post my Huffington Post stories when I'm 1186 01:28:46.600 --> 01:28:50.800 done with them. And I'm tweeting UFO news on a regular basis, so 1187 01:28:50.880 --> 01:28:59.119 you have a tweet news line to get the latest UFO news. Join us 1188 01:28:59.279 --> 01:29:02.600 next week, we're gonna have another exciting guess. I don't have a completely 1189 01:29:02.640 --> 01:29:04.760 confirmed right now, so I won't tell you the name, but I'll tell 1190 01:29:04.760 --> 01:29:09.640 you it's gonna be delat So we'll talk to you soon. Everybody, have 1191 01:29:09.760 --> 01:29:23.039 a great week. Got close music,