What is krak alak enveloped mouqui a efforts. I am Dana Valley coming at
you with a very brief introduction. I'm posting the podcast I went on setting
the pace. Follow them on Twitter at Pacers pod STP spelled exactly as it
sounds. It's hosted by Alex Golden. Follow him on Twitter at Alex Golden
NBA as well as I believe it's Anthony Fauci at a underscore Fatci fac C.
I have been on them a few times before. They're kind of up
to send me the audio over on this And so if you're if you follow
us on YouTube, but you also get the audio podcast, it's only posted
on the audio. So go tell all the YouTube subscribers they should subdu us
on Apple, Spotify to trick Google, the whole nine to get stuff like
this. When it happened, so we got into the Pacers their advancement to
the N Season Tournament semifinals. We did not know that they were going to
be playing the Bucks when we recorded it, but we talked about the N
Season Tournament at large, the Pacers at large, them taking the next step.
They wanted a national perspective hopefully I did you all justice. It was
a fun conversation, so go ahead and follow them again. Like I said
on Twitter at Pasters pod STP, I'll include the links to their Apple Spotify,
and I believe they're on YouTube as Bustle. I will include that in
the YouTube and podcast description. It's a good conversation. And hey, if
you're new around these parts for some reason, just remember to subscribe. And
if you've done all that ratings and reviews on Apple spot if I helped us
out a ton. We were recently downvoted on Apple. I don't know what
we said or maybe something Grant or I wrote that got us down voted.
So head over there and throw us a bunch of ratings and some nice reviews
would be great. As always, appreciate every single one of you and all
the support. Grant and I'll be back with our own pod actually on Wednesday
night, I'll probably throw it up and then we'll have another one up on
Friday morning as well. Thank you all for your support. As always,
Let's get to talking some pacers with the fellas from the Setting the Pace podcast.
All right, everybody joining us now on Setting the Pace. He's been
on this show before to talk trades with this, but obviously we're gonna just
talk some basketball today. It's dam Fa Valley from Hardwood Knocks Dan. What's
going on man, Nada? How are you guys doing? Doing great?
Happy to have you back. I'm doing great. Pay guys so much for
having me. It's always a pleasure. Oh yeah, I mean I'm doing
great. Pacers got a huge win against the Boston Celtics on Monday night one
twenty two to one to twelve, advancing to Vegas in the n Season Tournament
semifinals. So your thoughts on the n Season Tournament and then what you think
the NBA has done in terms of promoting it. I've enjoyed it, like
almost every element of it. For the most part. I love the courts
and hate the uniforms. Ironically, the Pacers' uniform is actually probably the best
uniform it's up there. But their court was spectacular. I love seeing the
differentiation with the courts. Love that, you know, there were some players
that seem a little b annoyed about the way the point differential tie breakers worked.
I loved it. The fact that you're seeing, you know, players
get intentionally foul when you're up big buckets because that stuff matters. I'm actually
interested to see next year if players and teams kind of understand the value of
the point differential earlier, so we see that stuff happen before the final week
of those you know, initial group play games, and I think, look,
it's still gonna take a while for the NBA Cup to catch on with
meaning you probably if they get a few under your belt. But I never
understood why no one would, why anyone, excuse me, would come into
this with anything. But in open mind, this isn't a victory left to
say, Look, the NBA just did something great. There's something to see
some of it play out, But we get moments where it's like the let's
use the Indiana game as an example, Like the crowd was into it,
and you have Tyre's Halbert and clung it the most important game he's ever played
in. That's really freaking cool for because the casual fan does not care about
the NBA before the NFL season is over. So anything you can do to
drive interest not just from the fans but from the players and to get those
guys on the court. I've enjoyed it. I think it's been a home
run in year one. Yeah, I mean, do you think that coming
into this, I thought this was a money gramb I mean, come on,
they're just trying to have more people tune into Tuesdays and Friday games than
usual early on, But so far it's worked. It's felt different. But
do you feel that this n season tournament has maybe meant more to the underdog
teams that are trying to fight for that extra nationally televised game, for instance,
like an Indianana. Just look at the statement they made by being able
to advance compared to maybe you know, some other teams where they're like,
you know what, it's just another game. Yeah, for sure, I
think you're going to see a lot of that because there's an element of when
it's just single elimination, and even when it's just one game, when you're
looking at group play, because you're playing every one of your group once,
anything can happen. Whereas we know over the course of a seven game series,
the best team is probably ninety five percent of the time just just going
to win unless they're so evenly matched. And then if you're an underdog team
to go into the playoffs and have to win, you know, three,
four playoff series. It's just such a big ask if you're a low seed,
and so I do think it provides an avenue for not just these younger
teams to kind of make a name for themselves, get on national TV.
I think like the Pacers are gonna be like a household team after this,
just because they're seeing people are seeing how fun they all are to watch play.
Then just Tyres Halberton being a megastar, and I think what actually might
end up happening, and maybe we're seeing it a little bit with the Lakers,
is you could see the flip side of this as well, where it's
these older players who might not be as durable or fully healthy. When we're
talking about games in April, May and June, we're gonna see Lebron James
get up for the n Season tournament because he's gonna be as fresh as possible.
And the Lakers have very clearly cared about these games despite their injuries,
and so I think that's something that could catch up. But for the young
teams specifically, it wouldn't shock me if, even if they're not gonna win,
if we just routinely see a team or there, they could be a
plucky playoff team, or maybe they're a playing team, but a team like
the Pacer or even a team like the Pelicans that dealt with injuries and are
kind of a question mark, that those might be the teams that get up
the most for these games and maybe enjoy them and glean the most from them,
and do it as getting some of their younger players who might not have
experience in these high leverage situations as playing in those big time games. There's
of course no replicating the postseason, but this comes as close as you can
in the middle of December. And I think one of the things too that
the NBA probably one of them kind of curious your thoughts on this too,
is like everybody loves March madness. Everybody loves single elimination games type style,
and you really won't ever see that happen with the playoffs because they really want
the seven game series for all the reasons why they want to do that.
So do you think maybe this is their way of saying, Okay, we
can kind of have like a March madness feel in you know, November December
by doing a tournament here where it's single elimination and you get that win or
go home type feeling, oh for sure. And I think the other part
of it, even aside from that, is part of the reason why the
NFL such an institution is scarcity of product and the nd season tournament because it's
so short, like it really was like it's gonna be a month long basically,
and you're only playing these teams once. That there's that scarcely a product
baked into the single elimination then, and that's also why March Madness does so
well. Yes, you watch these teams play twenty something games or whatever the
college season is, but that's one that's a very small sample size to begin
with. But you're just going through this trenetic sixty plus team bracket and so
this is like you're it's that in miniature for the NBA on both fronts,
is the NBA Cup is scarcely a product because it's so like, think how
long the playoffs last, like the three months at this point, d n
season tournament lasts a month, and so I think that helps as well.
But the single elimination element absolutely for sure. It's you know, the people
who love want some of the rounds to go back to best of five,
like this is that on steroids, Like it's just because it's all this single
elimination stuff. Every single game matters from the start of group play through the
end of course of the NBA Cup Final. It just matters a metric ton
you know, I'm not trying to be a homer over here, but has
any player really elevated their status more throughout this in season tournament than Tyrese Halliburton,
who has really come out to show the NBA, maybe NBA casuals,
just how good of a player that he really is. Probably not just because
when you're talking about the elevation he's made and I have not gone through my
ladder just yet. Like this is someone who in some of these games,
because of some of these games, has probably vaulted himself into like the top
five, top seven of the MVP conversation. And we saw that with shake
Gil just Alexander last year. Independent of this in season tournament. Of course,
that doesn't just put a player on the map. It puts an entire
team on the map. Because we have changed nationally, the way the thunder
have been talked about has changed dramatically when you look at the start from last
season until now, and something similar is probably going to happen with the Pacers
just based off Tyre Haliburton's play all season. But if they end up being
the first NBA Cup holder or whatever in an end season tournament champion, whatever
we're calling it, that goes a long way, I think toward putting them
in the national conscience. Yeah, I mean last night, I'm sure that
game against Boston, nobody expected the Pacers to really win that game. Everybody's
kind of got their eyes on Boss and fifteen and four heading into the night,
and the Pacers just were able to pull away in the third quarter and
got back to their style of play with Tyree's kind of being the head of
the snake for the Pacers there. But what did you see in that game
from the Pacers outside of Halliburton that made you think, Oh, I really
like this team. Like there's some things that they really do well, and
I would like to see them play more national televised games. So the first
one is, and they don't do this well because we know what the defensive
numbers are, but like they ratcheted up the defense of intensity in the second
half and to see them be able to do that in half court situation specifically,
it's kind of like, all right, like does this team have another
level? And you look at the personnel and it's probably no, that's not
sustainable. But it's good to know they can hit that gear and the other
thing. And he's done this pretty much all season. But holy Aaron Nasmith,
like this dude just like signed an extension. It was everyone kind of
after thought, oh why did we sign? And we knew he was important
at their rotation because of a lack of wings and bodies that you want to
throw it, and he's just come in. I used to be super nervous
when he would dribble or attack close outs, and now I'm just like,
oh no, he's killing it. And that on top of his three point
shooting, on top of the defensive assignments that he's shouldering. This is someone
who is you know, don't I don't know where he lands on the Pacer
scale of important players in the in the aggregate, but there's Tyrese Halliburton,
and there's Miles Turner and then Andrew Nemhar has probably been their best individual defender
this year, but like Iardy Smith has been one of their three to five
most important players this season. And to say that about him on a team
that has playoff aspirations is a pretty big deal. On so well, I've
been really he was good last season, but this is just from what I've
seen anyway, this is this is a pretty big jump for him now.
It is he's definitely taking his game to the next level to be able to
get ahead on that extension. Forernie Smith was just awesome. Love love to
see it. But I always love someone's opinion who's not just so centered around
the Pacers. I mean, we're eleven and eight, we have wins over
Boston, Milwaukee, Myami, Philly. There's been some great wins. There's
must have been some bad losses lost in Portland, Charlotte, Chicago, and
Toronto. From maybe outside of the Pacers point of view, does it feel
like Indiana is ahead of expectations or perhaps still in that play in category.
That's a great question, I feel like, I think just because when you
look at it and you have someone like Tyre's Haliburton, and like that's the
thing, that's the guy that's the hardest player to find, and even after
last year, it's oh, is this best player on a title contender?
Material? Is this top ten player in the NBA material The answer is now
yes, and so that the fact that you've answered that in the affirmative,
I think does put you slightly ahead of schedule. It's how do you kind
of react to not just his success and some of your own successes. We
know how great the offense is, but how do you react to some of
the flaws. How do you react? What's the player development look like?
Is Ben mcmather at the end of the season, can we point at him
and say, you know what, he's a core player of the Pacers.
Are they gonna give Jaris Walker an extended look as someone who maybe not as
a rook but could give them a lot of what they are missing defensively?
And if the answer is no on either of those fronts, where they don't
think jars Walker can inflict real defensive change over the next couple of years,
or if they don't view benedicmatherin as this core piece, do you have the
gall to step outside of your own internal development window, your own draft picks
and go out and trade for a player who is a co running mate for
Halbert. You have your best player who can be your best player. How
do you find that second or third best player. Is he already on the
roster? Is he not? And to me, that's a lot of what
the rest of this season is about for them, and I'll be curious to
see what they do. They've been linked to some names, but we know
that the Pacers are historically more prudent on the trade market might be the best
way to go about it. But I think because you have Tyre's Haliburt and
you are on this accelerated timetable, not because of his age, not because
of his contract situation, but because he's one of the ten best players in
the league right now, and I'll be very curious to see how they go
about that. Or I guess would be this is me, you know,
not someone who's following the Pacers as close as you guys. My guess is
that no, that player that they need is not on the roster right now.
I don't think bennec Mathern's a bad player, but I tend to be
on like the mid end outcome of his trajectory compared to everybody else, and
then after that, it's well, we haven't really seen enough or any of
Jaris Walker this season to know what he's going to bring to the table,
and even if we do get a sense of it, that's just like you
have to scale ahead like two or three years, and the Pacers are very
much still Yeah, they're a team that's their eyes are on the future,
but they're good now. Tyres Haliburton is a superstar now, and so that's
kind of where I land with the Pacers. I think they're slightly ahead of
schedule, but I'll be very curious to see how they respond or go about
actualizing this timeline that Tyrese Haliburton alone basically has put them on. Tyri's has
said it, he wants to win, he wants to be in the playoffs,
and that does kind of speed up their timeline a little bit. Because
jaris Walker. I think everybody expected him to get at least a backup four
minutes and play maybe ten to twelve minutes a night, and now he's not
even seen the floor. He's gotten so many coaches decisions, dnps, and
everyone's kind of frustrated as a Pacer fan because they don't even get a chance
to see what he can do, especially in meaningful minutes like he might play
in garbage time, but that doesn't really show you a whole lot. So
it is a tough dynamic to kind of figure that out. And you talked
about it, like Miles Turner is probably the second most impactful player on this
team. But I think we've seen enough for Miles's career to realize he's not
a number two guy. He's a third, fourth, fifth option on a
team that's really trying to be good in the playoffs. So you kind of
hinted at it maybe going out and getting a second star. Is there a
name or two that you think would make a lot of sense to go after
with this Pacers team age wise, contract wise, that and what you'd have
to give up wise, that would make sense for the Pacers to kind of
be aggressive, you know. Ironically, and this is it's counterintuitive to some
extent, is that given how reluctant the Pacers do seem to part with their
own future draft picks in general, is you might be better off targeting as
soon to be free agent, even though Indiana is not viewed as this market
that's going to bring guys in just off the street, and if you already
have them, I think it's a lot different. But the cost of going
after those players if they are being traded, should theoretically be cheaper than if
they had two or three years left on their deal, and they've been I
know you guys have talked about everyone's talked about it. They've been linked to
Pascal Siakam just like again and again and again, and they're of the teams
that have been mentioned. Like. He makes way more sense on the Pacers
than he does on the Hawks or the Warriors. I still do think that
they need someone who skews more wing than like combo big like Siakam can do
some of this stuff on the perimeter against these hir end guys. But og
Ananobi, if he were to become available, is probably the better fit,
and I wouldn't call him a star as well. Don't expect him necessarily to
become available unless he's unhappy with his offensive role in Toronto. They need a
player like that, though I could see Siakam coming in and making a big
enough difference on the defensive end alongside Miles Turners specifically that it would matter.
But I think you need that three four combo Kai type, just big body
that can go out there and defend the other team's best player, almost irrespective
of the position. That they play. You talked about the Pacers should be
more aggressive to you know, go in in line with Halliburton's talent, not
necessarily his age. He talked about the trademarkt But Indiana's never been necessarily a
premier free agency destination. We could put it that way. When we had
players like Paul George or Victor Odipo or Sabonis, it didn't translate to attracting
free agents. Do you feel that Tyres Haliburton could be the difference maker there
in attracting talent to come to Indiana in free agency? Now, obviously money
is always gonna talk. It's always gonna talk the loudest, But does it
feel like Halliburton could be the difference maker compared to other franchise players the Pacers
had that couldn't learn talent. I would say yes in the sense that he
feels very much in the and I'm not saying he's as good as Nicole Jokic.
He's in the realm of Nikolajokic, of this dude who is gonna get
other dudes paid. And so if you're coming there like a even a Bruce
Brown who's on this inflated one plus one deal, but if you come there
and you're able to solidify yourself to the point where you can opt out and
another team or the Pacers are gonna give you a longer term deal that's worth
close to something annually, or you see what happened with Aaron Gordon when he
was slotted into a different role alongside Yokich, doesn't go there in free agency
but ends up getting an extension that people thought was too big at the time.
And so even if it's not, because free agency right now has changed
to where the most important players really aren't hitting the open market, Tyre's Haliburton
changes the complexion of the complexion of the conversation in the sense that, Okay,
maybe we're not just signing free agents out right. There are a lot
of things our own cap situation that goes into it, and then who's available.
But we are confident enough that if we trade for Siaka going into free
agency, for Ananobe going into free agency, if they ended up with McHale
Bridges and he was headed into free agency, which he's he's not entirely soon,
you're gonna be confident that that player is not going anywhere. Because people
want to play with Tyre's Haliburt, and I think that's become pretty clear just
time and time again when you watch them. And then Rob Mahoney the Ringer
had the fantastic profile of Tyre's Haliburton, where Miles Turner was talking about how
when he was injured and he was just watching other people play with halburn all
he want to do is get on the court. So to have someone who
injects that feeling into it's not just going to be people that are already in
the Pacers locker room, and has to be you know, Bruce Brown now
understanding it, or like getting the out Aaronie Smith getting me the first chance
opportunity to play with them. And look, it wasn't too long ago that
Tyre's Haliburt was new to this locker room to begin with, and so someone
like Miles Turner, who was foreign too, Haliburton's watching him and saying,
no, I want to play with this dude. That's a big deal.
Whether it's happening we're signing free agents or we're acquiring maybe making some dice rolls
on the trademarket. He's twenty three years old. He's entering what you would
call maybe the MVP conversation right now as like a top five candidate and he's
just he's blossoming into the franchise's you know, star, they're superstar level guy.
What does he need to do to keep this going in terms of I
know you talked about attracting players, but keeping the Pacers relevant because their their
team record has been kind of inconsistent. They've had some big wins in the
Ncason Tournament, then they lose, like to Charlotte, they lose to Chicago.
They lose these games, but like, how do they stay consistent now
that they've got the eyes of the national media. I mean, it starts
and I don't know if it's something Tyres Halibert needs to specifically do. He
could be and we saw it kind of in the second half against the Celts.
Like he doesn't He's not always going to be as eminently targetable, but
he is a lot on the defensive end. But like, I don't think
there's anything else that he could feasibly do offensively than what like to lift up
the Pacers. They have the best This was a big Yeah. Their offense
is great. They have the best half court offense in NBA. That's a
big deal when you look at where they were at last season. They need
to figure out some stuff on the defensive end. I personally do not think
they have the personnel to do it, but like even maybe some low hanging
fruit where yes, part of what's good about their offense is it allows their
defense to get set, so they're not allowing teams to get out and transition
a bunch. When they do, it's so easy to get behind the Pacers
almost jarring, and so stuff like that feels like you could clean it up.
They're the team that fouls the most when they're guarding the pick and roll
like that stuff that you should be able to cut down as some of your
players get more experience or have more familiarity with one another, if they can
kind of just improve some of their like I'll say, improve their improvable defensive
vitals, like within the realm of feasibility with the personnel they have, that
would go a long way towards like I would think elevating the immediate ceiling of
this team, because if the Pacers were like even a twenty second ranked defensive
team is opposed to like one of the two worst defenses in the league,
like that changes their immediate trajectory a great deal. And that's the thing you're
talking twenty second. I think Pacer fans would kill for twenty fifth because right
now, you just can't be the worst defense in the league. But if
things don't change and the Pacers do remain, say a bottom three defense in
this league, do you feel that it's just a matter of time before they
find themselves on the outside looking in, perhaps maybe not even a playing team.
Because it's one thing to be the best offensive team in the league,
it's a whole another thing to be the worst defensive team in the league.
So do you think that is just far not sustainable. I think I would
be flabbergacid if they fell out of the play in chase, just when you
look at the landscape right now in the Eastern Conference. But could their defense
be the difference between all right, right now, we're comfortably a top six
seed and oh no, we have to go into the playoffs by virtue of
the playing and maybe we don't even have the seven or eight spot, like
maybe we're we're nine or ten. If Atlanta and Brooklyn like catch lightning in
a bottle and leap frog some of them, we know the Calves are probably
going to improve this season goes on. I absolutely think that's a possibility.
But as constructed now, barring injury to like one Haliburton or Turner or Brown
or maybe even Demhar like, this is a team that should even if its
defense doesn't get better, they should be I would think like one of the
top eight teams in the conference, depending on whether they're slotted obviously in the
top eight. You know seven and eight's gonna be tough. But do you
think if they're anywhere from that three to six range that they could win a
playoff series? Oh, that's a great question. I mean, matchups are
everything. I will say when you look at some of the teams that they
would be going up against, where it's like, I just like if you
have a series with the Knicks or the Sixers, maybe even the Celtics a
little bit, look caught off guard, even the Cavs. Just like,
there are teams when you look at their defenses, even when they're good defenses,
they are not used to defending the entire floor like the Pacers make you
defend. And this is a team that I think can catch anybody off guard,
even across an entire series because they're just looking to run, make miss
rebound steel turn like they're just running. And it's so I think teams,
even when you know this gown of report of the Pacers, even if you're
playing them, you know, seven set over the course of the best of
seven series, you just get caught off kilt there so often by the amount
that they're looking to run on offense that yeah, some of these games might
be like one thirty six, but like they're built to win those games.
And so if they're able to get in the postseason as a seed that is
not playing the you know, the one or the two, I do think
they're borderline capable of winning a playoff series. But I for that to be
as certifiable, yes, for me, something's gonna need to change. I
would again point towards the trade market, just because it doesn't look like Jaris
Walker is gonna have a big role this year, and that's really the only
defensive difference maker on the team that we don't know about. There are limitations
to what Bruce Brown can do when you look at his size. There are
gonna be limitations in certain matchups what Aaron E. Smith can do. And
so just after that, it gets a little bit difficult to bank on internal
defensive improvement right now. This Pacers team, they're a very deep team.
It's one of the strengths of Indiana. I mean, the last two nights
they've had seven players score double figures. There's also a couple guys like Jaris
Walker who can't get on the court right now. Now, if you are
Indiana and you own two first round picks this year, you own all your
picks moving for you have cap space, do you start to say, I
just don't think we need to bring another rookie onto this team. It's time
to maybe start to you know, empty out the treasure chest a bit and
consolidate. Because Jarris Walker, you're talking about, you know, the eighth
overall pick, technically someone that you expected to be on the court. Ben
Shephard, another first round pick, can't really get on the court that much.
A couple of minutes here and there, is this the time to say,
you know what, I think we've moved past looking to bring on another
rookie. We want to go for it. I would say absolutely yes.
And it feels like they've hinted at it, if not outright told us by
one how they're bringing along Jaris Walker and then even two deciding Okay, I
know this is for in theory, the benefit of what Benedic Mattherm is doing
when he's going up against opposing offenses as his defender, and maybe even the
quality of opponents he's facing when he's on the court, But like the fact
that he's just not starting, it kind of tells you, like, no,
they're invested. They're invested in the here and the now more than you
might think. And so I would agree whether if you agree with that,
and I don't know, but the sentiment you just laid out, it does
feel like they're tracking toward Maybe it's not a decision they make at the deadline,
but certainly heading into the offseason that this summer, by this summer they're
going to be done with kind of weight and see mode. And again even
right now, it just seems like they are done with that because of the
roles of Walker, Shepherd and again even Mathrin. Yeah, it's tough.
I mean everybody thought Mathroom would get the opportunity to just use this year be
the starter next to Tyres and it took what Rick maybe ten games before he
made a decision to put Buddy back in there, so I think that it
made sense because he needed to get more floor spacing out there. With that
first unit, there wasn't a lot of good floor spacing, and I feel
like Buddy is more beneficial playing with Tyrese and not playing with him. So
as many minutes as they can get together and then kind of let Ben run
the second unit once again like it did last year. It does make more
sense dynamically with what they're trying to do. But you bring up a great
point talking about it has been that number two guy. It's kind of hard
to see that fit with Tyrese right now, and maybe it is premature because
he is super young, but at this moment, I think there's looking for
the number two and I agree, I don't really think that he is on
the roster. But Dan, we want to thank you so much for coming
on this podcast and joining us talk about the Pacers. I mean, we
don't usually get a lot of national people coming on talking about Indiana for twenty
five to thirty minutes. So you know your stuff and where people find all
of your great work app then come check me out at Bleach Report Publishing all
the time over there and they should check out the Hardwood Notts podcast. They're
interested in hearing about the NBA at large. All right, man, we're
gonna be follow you out on Twitter. I think of my name at Dan
the Valley favam awesome stuff. We thank you so much for coming on.
We'll have to do it again soon and hopefully the Pacers are boys sent up
the first effort, first end season tournament championship. It's always a pleasure,
guys, Thanks how much for having me. Thanks a lot, Dan,