1 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:20,160 What is up, fellow thermonuclear a empers. I am Dan Favalley coming at 2 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,440 you with another twenty twenty three twenty twenty four NBA team look Ahead. We 3 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:29,199 are on to the Dallas Mavericks and that means we must we have to. 4 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:35,600 We're excited to speak with Kirk Henderson. Follow him on Twitter at Kirk Serious 5 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,600 Space. That's with a K and the rest is spelled exactly as it sounds. 6 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:45,359 He does stuff at MAV's Moneyball and he is also the host, right 7 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,079 co host of that that's not on your bio but the po I've listened to 8 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,560 you on it pod Mavericks on the Blue Wire Podcast Network. Did I get 9 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:57,079 that right? That's right, Kirk? How are you doing Okay? We're 10 00:00:57,119 --> 00:01:00,240 apparently close to basketball season. I've had a long time off, so it's 11 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,560 been weird to be like, oh, hey, we need to start doing 12 00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:07,760 doing math stuff again. It's always sort of a I started them a little 13 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:08,959 early this year to try to not be out of my mind by the time 14 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,760 we're getting to open a night with the look Aheads. But whenever I start 15 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,159 the series, I'm like, oh, the NBA off season is just it's 16 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,239 over, Like for me, and I'm not gonna liees I've gotten older. 17 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,519 I've grown to like very much appreciate the off season. I'm so saturated with 18 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,280 basketball content, like ten and a half months out of the year, that 19 00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:29,159 does like six weeks or so go by way too quick for me. That's 20 00:01:29,239 --> 00:01:33,120 right, just catching up on stuff, enjoying not doing things until the dead 21 00:01:33,159 --> 00:01:38,200 of night, and it's it is nice. But I think once I once 22 00:01:38,239 --> 00:01:41,000 I see some games, you know, and I really didn't enjoy the World 23 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,480 Cup, but that was at like six in the morning, so that was 24 00:01:42,519 --> 00:01:47,599 like a very different basketball experience. Once once uh, the night games flare 25 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,760 up again, I think I'll enjoy getting back into the rhythm again. It's 26 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:55,319 a year. It's somehow year ten or eleven for me. At Math's Moneyball, 27 00:01:55,439 --> 00:02:00,000 so oh wow, I am at year. If you do Math carry 28 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,640 the six, No, I'm you're twelve. At bleacher Report, I think, 29 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,799 so we're getting I would say it goes by quickly, but that's not 30 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,800 really true. It's just you know, certain things where it's like, wow, 31 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,439 was that long ago? Like my coast and I last night, I 32 00:02:13,439 --> 00:02:17,840 started talking about Josh Howard's rookie season, which just happened to be twenty years 33 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:23,719 ago? What the world? Oh man? Yeah, that's like I have 34 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,960 those reminders every so often, like seeing kind of like Lebron and Steph and 35 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,719 kd get older. Is the sobering reminder, like, dude, you're you're 36 00:02:30,719 --> 00:02:36,479 getting You're getting up there. I'm with you though that I get excited for 37 00:02:36,599 --> 00:02:38,960 the season, but I very quickly. I don't know if you get like 38 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,879 I know you're following the cover of the MAVs, but that like first couple 39 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,280 of nights where there's like the twelve or thirteen games, I get I have 40 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,639 like this existential dread. I just get so anxious, like how how did 41 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,159 I do this all these other years? Yep, yep, it's great. 42 00:02:53,719 --> 00:02:59,479 So the Mavericks, let's start with Kyrie Irving here before we get to just 43 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,319 the attractor every Well, how did you feel about the contract they ended up 44 00:03:01,319 --> 00:03:05,000 giving him? You knew they were gonna resign him. I think a lot 45 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,360 of people were just like, why are you getting in the Kyrie irving business? 46 00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:09,479 They were already in the Kyrie irving business? Like relative to that, 47 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:14,199 what did you think of the contract terms that they came to I was not 48 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:20,680 particularly thrilled, but then then just because I sort of took the Bill Simmons 49 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,080 tack of like who else is giving him that money? But you know, 50 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,319 as I've sat with it for most of the summer, I tend to agree 51 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,520 with I've sort of moved a little bit in the sense of I think you 52 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:36,319 have to pace. You want him to feel respected. Kyrie Irving is a 53 00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:40,319 particularly difficult person to talk about in all sorts of ways, but you want 54 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,159 him, like, you don't want to give him any reasons to not show 55 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,879 up to work and a three year deal. No one else is giving him 56 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:50,919 a three year deal forty million. No one else is giving him forty million. 57 00:03:51,599 --> 00:03:54,560 But what the Mavericks weren't going to do anything else with the money because 58 00:03:54,599 --> 00:03:58,159 they didn't, you know, they were the only team they could go over 59 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,439 the cap to keep him, and it just it's sort of worked, and 60 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,400 you know, the player option of it all is very interesting to me. 61 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,879 Kyrie Irving is not you know, he's a small, slight guy. That's 62 00:04:10,879 --> 00:04:14,680 one thing that I don't think is really translated on TV because he's obviously like 63 00:04:14,759 --> 00:04:17,759 wondrously athletic and so gifted, but he's like a one hundred and seventy five 64 00:04:17,759 --> 00:04:23,079 pounds. It's like small guards like that, just it's it's tough. So 65 00:04:23,079 --> 00:04:27,560 it's like his game will probably age well because it's it's so beautiful. But 66 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,480 at the same time, it's a thirty three year old Kyrie Irving might struggle 67 00:04:31,519 --> 00:04:34,720 to stay on the floor just because I mean, lord, I'm approaching forty 68 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,040 and it's sometimes hard for me to get out of bed in the morning. 69 00:04:38,439 --> 00:04:41,319 So it's it's, you know, as you get older, it's just tough 70 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,199 to do this sort of stuff. And I don't know, I think it 71 00:04:44,319 --> 00:04:47,920 probably works out for the beast Hillfield respected. I think I think the Mavericks 72 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,879 are are, you know, taking this one year at a time. They 73 00:04:49,879 --> 00:04:54,160 have one good year out of Kyrie Irving, and I think that that is 74 00:04:54,199 --> 00:04:57,639 pretty important to to what, you know, for the starting point of what 75 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,240 they're trying to rebuild here. When I saw the terms of the deal submax 76 00:05:00,319 --> 00:05:02,920 money, they didn't go out four years the player option, like you said, 77 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,920 is interesting. I just thought you were going to keep him. I 78 00:05:05,959 --> 00:05:09,759 thought it worked. I think I thought it worked out as well as it 79 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,800 could be expected for the MAVs, given out invest that they were in this. 80 00:05:13,079 --> 00:05:16,720 What did you actually think though of the on court fit, both during 81 00:05:16,759 --> 00:05:20,879 the Luca and non Luca minutes, because I do think a lot of what 82 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,439 happened with the MAVs towards the NLST season, aside from them deciding to punt 83 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,639 on the playoffs, it was just attributed to the Kyrie Irving trade. They 84 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,800 were having issues beforehand. They were winning the minutes those two were on the 85 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,120 court, and I just I'm not, like, you know, I wonder 86 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,240 if Kyrie was gonna show up to work. You gotta mention that before, 87 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,720 like I am one of those people, But I just don't know. I 88 00:05:40,759 --> 00:05:45,800 didn't see anything that I thought made the fit terrible or that anything went wrong 89 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,439 with the Mavericks needed to be ascribed to him. I thought it was absolutely 90 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:54,879 electric when Kyrie and Luca played together. One of the things that I could 91 00:05:54,879 --> 00:06:00,240 tell from just kind of the national pundits was whether or not you know when 92 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,040 you start Kyrie and Luca can't play together. No, they can play together 93 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,360 just fine. They had a lot of fun. Their minutes were fantastic, 94 00:06:08,399 --> 00:06:11,720 and they kind of ruled if you were watching a lot of the games. 95 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:15,399 I mean, they played Philadelphia where each of them scored forty and it was 96 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,759 incredible. The problem came with the fact that they gave up just the kind 97 00:06:19,759 --> 00:06:26,399 of pieces that were keeping everything together by you know, kind of with like 98 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,959 sticks and glue, and when you trade, you know, the connective tissue 99 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,839 of the team, and like a Dorian Finney Smith, that means everything else 100 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:39,000 sort of falls apart because they were playing brutal lineups last year they got they 101 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:44,240 were already small before they traded all the pieces to get Kyrie, and then 102 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,879 they ended up just tiny. Luca was often the best rebounder that that's you 103 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,720 know, that's some of that's by design, but it ends up eating things 104 00:06:50,759 --> 00:06:55,720 up. And so it's just the non Luca minute. Like everything with those 105 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,600 two were fine, even Kyrie, you know, leading the team, which 106 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,079 he did. I think he played the first three games without Luca, they 107 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,800 were like three to zero. It was he was great. It's just the 108 00:07:05,879 --> 00:07:15,120 Mavericks as a team were so is bleak because in April, March and April 109 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:20,560 twenty nineteen they had particular lineups which featured like Jalen Brunson, Tim Hardaway, 110 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:27,800 Maxi Kleeba, Dwight Powell, Luca Don Chich and at least one other guy. 111 00:07:28,639 --> 00:07:31,040 It was like six or seven people, and then darn Finnish Smith and 112 00:07:31,079 --> 00:07:36,319 then as of February twenty twenty three, those players were all still on the 113 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:41,399 team and in the lineup. So they just rolled out the same group over 114 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:46,839 and over and over again. And they just needed to do something different because 115 00:07:46,839 --> 00:07:48,959 they were diminishing returns on a lot of that stuff. And so to get 116 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:54,199 Kyrie Irving, I was not particularly thrilled, just because I'm not. It's 117 00:07:54,959 --> 00:07:57,279 when you have Kyrie on your team, you just got to take it a 118 00:07:57,319 --> 00:08:01,399 season at a time. You're not to think assuming that you're building around Kyrie 119 00:08:01,519 --> 00:08:05,800 is messy. It just because it hasn't worked. It hasn't worked since he 120 00:08:05,879 --> 00:08:09,240 left, since the championship in Cleveland, he's barely gone a year, or 121 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,279 where he's been particular. It's it's anything past year seems to be, you 122 00:08:13,319 --> 00:08:16,279 know, particularly challenging. It's just it's not something I think you can do. 123 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,519 But I enjoyed the fit. I'm looking forward to seeing what they can 124 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:26,240 do now that they have a whole host of new pieces, and at the 125 00:08:26,399 --> 00:08:31,120 very least it's gonna be interesting. The Mavericks of last year were not interesting. 126 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,879 They were mediocre to bad and boring, and that's not fun to watch. 127 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:41,360 No, And I think, really the I think I used to be 128 00:08:41,399 --> 00:08:45,120 like this where I was worried about the one ball stuff years ago, and 129 00:08:45,159 --> 00:08:48,639 then just ever since, probably like Lebron and Kyrie around that time, I've 130 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:50,039 just been like, they're gonna figure it out, like James Harden Chris Paul 131 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,360 figured it out. Look what Brooklyn was when they were actually available, Like 132 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,399 he said, the offense was electric. The devents was the concern in large 133 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,440 part because it wasn't great to begin with. You trade it away, Dorren 134 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,840 Finnie Smith, you already mentioned that. I think they were around the bottom 135 00:09:03,879 --> 00:09:07,679 five and points a lot per possession once Kyrie made his debut. There was 136 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,600 availability issues and sure they clearly knew that was a weakness. They go after 137 00:09:11,639 --> 00:09:16,559 Matisse, Thyball, they end up with you know, you add Dante exam, 138 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,679 but they end up with Grant Williams. I'm curious how you feel about 139 00:09:20,799 --> 00:09:24,440 the Grant Williams fit, especially given how it was framed, because you give 140 00:09:24,519 --> 00:09:26,639 up the twenty thirty swap and then a lot of people are talking about like, 141 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,559 yeah, this is someone who's really gonna anchor I saw him like called 142 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,600 a wing a bunch of times. I'm like, he's very switchable, but 143 00:09:33,639 --> 00:09:35,360 he's not a wing. Like those were not the assignments that he was just 144 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,000 taking last year, and so I'm just like, what are the expectations for 145 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,559 him won? And then you know, divorcing those or I guess attaching them 146 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,000 to reality. I should say, like, how do you feel about the 147 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,960 overall fit of Grant Williams and Dallas? Well, you're right, It's funny. 148 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:56,200 There was a particular MAVs podcaster who I know last night Grant Williams is 149 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,360 at the Wings game and he took a picture with Tim Hardaway and the guy 150 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,759 was like, what what, Grant Williams is shorter than Tim Hardaway And it's 151 00:10:01,759 --> 00:10:05,039 like, yeah, he's like a six five power forward. He's he's PJ. 152 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,440 Tucker at Texas with a little more youth in his legs, and he's 153 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:15,240 very interesting on passing. He's a weird player. He's a weird player that 154 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,960 I think fits in weird ways and gives this team a lot of optionality. 155 00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:24,919 He is not going to fix their problems. But the other part of that 156 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:30,240 is their problems on the wing were so bad that even if he's not a 157 00:10:30,279 --> 00:10:33,000 good solution, he's still better than what they were rolling out there. So 158 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,960 I think like this assumption that he is going to be any sort of stopper 159 00:10:37,039 --> 00:10:39,960 is pretty silly. I do think that he allows their defense to be very 160 00:10:41,039 --> 00:10:43,919 multiple depending on who else he's out there with. Like if Maxi Kleeba can 161 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,960 stay any approximation of healthy for part of the year, I think him and 162 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,240 Grant Williams will have a lot of fun with like their switchability yea and things 163 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,120 like that. So so you ask if here in the in the sheet said, 164 00:10:56,159 --> 00:10:58,639 is he also like a lot to start? I think so. But 165 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:03,799 I'll so think what Jason Kidd has now in this lineup is a bunch of 166 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:07,720 weird guys where it's like Luca's gonna play point at six eight, Kyrie will 167 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:13,879 play shooting guard at six two. We'll probably throw out somebody like Tim Hardaway 168 00:11:13,919 --> 00:11:18,120 to start the year at three. But I think, oh, Max Olivier, 169 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,399 Max saus Prosper, their second first round draft pick, will probably end 170 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,600 up starting at some point just because he just bringings Jason Kidd to me. 171 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,840 I mean, he's he's just like he's he's a big guy like he number 172 00:11:30,879 --> 00:11:35,200 one, the guys enormous like he is Paul George sized like I can't And 173 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,840 after having a bunch of undersized wings like Josh Green for years, I'm looking 174 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,279 for it. So it's like that guy at like six eight, I'll play 175 00:11:41,279 --> 00:11:43,519 wit probably played the three and maybe a little bit of four. And it's 176 00:11:43,519 --> 00:11:46,919 just like, remember, you're not asking a lot of these guys to do 177 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,759 a lot of playmaking because Kyrie and Luca are gonna be doing most strubbling. 178 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,360 So it's like, can you move, can you cut? Can you post? 179 00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:54,600 Do you know where you're supposed to be? Can you play defense? 180 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,559 And I think so that sort of variability that Grant Williams will give teams. 181 00:11:58,639 --> 00:12:01,720 I think he'll start, but if he doesn't always start, I think that's 182 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,200 fine too. Do you think it's sort of suggest that they are going to 183 00:12:05,399 --> 00:12:09,159 switch a lot more or at least make it a crutch because you have him. 184 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:13,080 I think we've seen the Kyrie switched in Boston years ago. I believe 185 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,919 a bunch and Luca has size. You mentioned Maxi Kleiba. They're still Dwight 186 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,879 Powell here, So is that like does that intimate and they don't have like 187 00:12:18,919 --> 00:12:24,000 a like a true blue rim protector on this team, I guess, unless 188 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,759 you expect that to be Derek Lively or I do, but not until like 189 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,679 game fifty, so it's like to start the year. I do think they 190 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,679 go with a really switch heavy, effort based scheme. I mean, I 191 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,519 don't think Kid can coach a lick honestly, but one thing he did do 192 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,120 was get him to play really hard in twenty twenty two, twenty I'm sorry, 193 00:12:41,799 --> 00:12:45,080 twenty one twenty two. So I do think that they can do that 194 00:12:45,159 --> 00:12:48,559 again and at least seal some games that way. I mean, really, 195 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,799 it comes down to, like Kyrie gave great effort on defense last year, 196 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,720 they need to get Luca to give consistently great effort because he's gonna get targeted 197 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,200 a lot, but he's huge, So it's like, if you know, 198 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,720 you at least like use what you got. And so I think, like 199 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,519 on paper, at least the idea makes sense with sort of a switch heavy 200 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:13,480 scheme and really effort based. I'm at least intrigued with what they're going to 201 00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:18,440 try to do defensively. It does seem that just based on how the roster 202 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,679 is set up, regardless of what defensive scheme you're going to run. And 203 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,000 we saw this to an extent last year, that there's a ton of pressure 204 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,679 on Josh Green defensively in addition to what we've seen what we saw from him 205 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:33,039 offensively like progression last year. So how do you feel about, like, 206 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,399 is he up to that sort of task to be, you know, their 207 00:13:35,759 --> 00:13:41,919 top wing defender and then a bizarre basketball player, really bizarre basketball player. 208 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,240 You look at his numbers, they just don't make sense. He averages nine 209 00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:48,919 points a game while shooting forty percent from three. And then you go look 210 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,360 at his box score and he'll have six games in a row where he has 211 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,639 zero points, and then they'll have four games in a row where he scores 212 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:56,960 over twenty. He And I know you asked about his defense, but I 213 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,480 think he's just he's a weird player that I don't know how to talk about, 214 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,519 you know. And I don't think he's a good defender. He's small. 215 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,559 He's a six four. He's not six five two hundred. You know, 216 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,759 he's a stocky guy, but he's small. You see that whenever you 217 00:14:11,799 --> 00:14:16,320 pair him up against any true like you know, kind of a caliber wing 218 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,559 in the NBA. He's a six four shooting guard, is what he is. 219 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,639 And to me, you know, he's up for a contract extension. 220 00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:26,440 I think they get that done just like kind of blocked him. Do Yeah, 221 00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:28,159 I do, because like, what what are you gonna you know, 222 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,480 let him play it out and go get twenty million dollars a year or somewhere, 223 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,159 and why not pay him, you know, about the same as the 224 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:39,159 Lakers just paid what's his name. Yeah, So something like that, where 225 00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:41,919 it's like a four or fifty five million dollars a year or something like that. 226 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,960 I mean, even if it's more than that, yeah, it's it'd 227 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,399 be fine. And it's like, didn't even if if he doesn't work out, 228 00:14:46,519 --> 00:14:50,279 you move him down the road. He's a guy and considering where he 229 00:14:50,399 --> 00:14:54,120 was during Rick Carlisle's like rookie, Like during his rookie year, I thought 230 00:14:54,159 --> 00:14:58,679 he was going to be out of the league. So him being functional is 231 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,480 impressive. But I don't, I don't I think they can really count counting 232 00:15:01,559 --> 00:15:05,120 him. I really don't. I keep going back to the rookie omax. 233 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,120 I really think that guy's gonna just play twenty to twenty five minutes a game. 234 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,960 By season's end, maybe not like averaging for the whole year, but 235 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,759 I think he'll be a key part of their rotation really quickly. On Josh 236 00:15:16,799 --> 00:15:18,320 Green, it's like you just don't buy into like the stability like he did 237 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,039 get like his driving game improved a bunch last year. Like that's just not 238 00:15:22,159 --> 00:15:26,639 You don't count on him as a stable offensive he was. I don't because 239 00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:31,399 it's he doesn't have the score mindset, and so I think that can harm 240 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,559 it. Like when he was out there with either Luca or Kyrie, he 241 00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:37,759 was pretty good. When he was out there with both of them, he 242 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,120 was remarkably matt He's kind of a weird X factor player. He does odd 243 00:15:41,159 --> 00:15:46,120 things with the basketball that players don't anticipate, and so that can work both 244 00:15:46,159 --> 00:15:50,080 foreign against him. But if he's out there and he's not getting the ball 245 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,720 a ton, I don't really think he's that effective. He's not a good 246 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,960 he's a good standing, like catch and shoot guy, but he's not a 247 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,759 guy who will naturally take like six open threes a game. He kind of 248 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,600 does like the auto rotate thing where you can see he's gonna make the pass 249 00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:06,600 even before he gets it. Does that make any sense? No? I 250 00:16:06,639 --> 00:16:11,279 get that. Yeah, it's just it's it's not really he's improved so much, 251 00:16:11,399 --> 00:16:15,759 but I just I have concerns about what his top level ought to be. 252 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:17,559 That's not to say I don't think they should pay him. I just 253 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,399 said they should. But yeah, I just I don't know what I don't 254 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,000 see this Like, It's not like he's some burgeoning hidden superstar. He's a 255 00:16:25,039 --> 00:16:27,879 guy. He'll play ten years in the league and be fine his first team. 256 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,519 All people want you to know they watch a lot of basketball though, 257 00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:34,919 when they talk about so you caned o Max twice. I didn't have him 258 00:16:34,919 --> 00:16:37,960 on the outline until lower so we have to talk about him. You mentioned 259 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,519 he's a Jason Kid player. I think he's shot. I saw his like 260 00:16:41,559 --> 00:16:45,960 forty one point eight percent on NBA range threes last year two, So is 261 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,799 that like part of the appeal. It's like, you just want us around 262 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,720 Kyrie and Luca with a bunch of three in D guys, and right now, 263 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,159 I guess the only three D guy on this roster would be Grant Williams. 264 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,600 Like, do you consider like throwing Josh Green in that conversation like a 265 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:03,000 little bit a little bit yellow omax, That is the appeal. And there's 266 00:17:03,039 --> 00:17:06,519 also so I've gone to Summer League every year for ten years. I have 267 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,480 watched some horrific that's a lot of Vegas by the way. Well, and 268 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:14,559 just the Mavericks have not ever been good. They were good in Summer League 269 00:17:14,759 --> 00:17:18,079 the year that they had Jalen Brunson, Luca couldn't play. Brunson was so 270 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,759 bad at Summer League I thought he was a bust. Like that was kind 271 00:17:21,759 --> 00:17:25,720 of the root of my Brunson disbelief. He was awful at Summer League, 272 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:30,440 and I watched so much bad basketball the good parts stand out in my mind, 273 00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:36,319 So perhaps I'm overrating him. But during Summer League, I saw a 274 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:41,079 guy that was much bigger than I realized, much stronger than I realized, 275 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,359 and had a willingness to do stuff with the basketball. And so when I 276 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:51,359 see a guy you know lots of like we moved off ball real well attacked. 277 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:56,599 Well. He gave the guy who the Pacers drafted at eight, what's 278 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,759 his name, shoot Jaris. He gave Jaris Walker the business. I mean, 279 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,599 absolutely took his lunch money in a game. And I'm probably overrating that 280 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,279 sort of stuff, but I just haven't seen it. From a Mavericks player 281 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,640 before, and so I think that he's going to be a guy very and 282 00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:15,519 I sort of compared him to Josh Green last night, where in Josh Green's 283 00:18:15,599 --> 00:18:19,920 not Josh Green, Josh Howard, two thousand and three dollars Mavericks draft pick 284 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,720 who came into a very good team and slow, and not that the Mavericks 285 00:18:25,759 --> 00:18:27,920 are a good team now, but as a rookie, earned his minutes in 286 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:33,680 like a garbage man way, getting offensive rebounds Locke, like playing hard defense, 287 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,039 and like with a team with Luca and Kyrie, that's all you need. 288 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,160 You just need a guy willing to do that stuff, and so you 289 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:45,000 throw all those sids and everything else. I find myself unreasonably excited about him. 290 00:18:45,079 --> 00:18:48,680 Plus the fact that the Celtics lost their minds on Draft night when the 291 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,319 Mavericks snuck up and took him, because they traded back three times after the 292 00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:57,200 Mavericks took him. That's how flustered they were by that baby. Maybe this 293 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:02,480 will be another Desmond Bame all over again, different obviously, because that was 294 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,279 the actual Celtics pick. But uh, and look, the threes he's gonna 295 00:19:06,279 --> 00:19:08,440 get from Luca and Kyrie are just like they're gonna tee him up. And 296 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,119 so I think that's a reason to buy into a shooting and I think to 297 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,039 an extent, that can streamline your offensive development where it's, hey, we 298 00:19:15,079 --> 00:19:17,559 need you to do X, Y and Z on defense, but like you're 299 00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:19,920 just gonna like you're just gonna fan out and dot the arc on offense, 300 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,640 and like, these guys are gonna see you right up. So I'm officially, 301 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,960 after listening to you, way more excited to watch Oh Max than I 302 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,319 was coming into this podcast. You'll see him, and I think you'll understand 303 00:19:30,319 --> 00:19:34,759 what I mean where it's just like NBA players and this doesn't come across in 304 00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:41,279 TV. A lot of NBA players are very thin and to the point where 305 00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:44,119 it's like, wow, these guys like Dirk Nevitsky and Tyson Chandler were so 306 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,799 dang skinny. I mean, I wait, two hundred and forty pounds from 307 00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:48,680 sixty three Dirk seven foot he wigh two hundred and forty pounds. It's like 308 00:19:48,759 --> 00:19:52,880 it's just a different body type. So when I see a guy that's why 309 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,920 I like Lebron just stands out. Why you know, Zion Williams and obviously 310 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,000 just stands out O Max has shoulders that look like a line backer, and 311 00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:03,640 I just I'm addicted to those kind of like like tough dude traits. I 312 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,440 could be completely off base, but I find myself excited. They did a 313 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,039 lot of other stuff over the off season, and we generally, I will 314 00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:15,559 say the only thing I was uncomfortable with about their off season was just that 315 00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:18,480 twenty thirty swap. Just the idea that you've kind of given up control of, 316 00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:21,599 like those two back end picks in twenty nine and thirty. I really 317 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,759 liked their off season overall of the other moves that they made, Like, 318 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:26,400 there is there anything that stood out that you really liked that you were concerned 319 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,599 about. What were just your general impressions of their off season looking at it 320 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:37,000 in some oh man, So the fact that they so for everyone who may 321 00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:41,759 have forgotten they slow ten, you know, they were just awful from March 322 00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:45,720 first on that that can't really be properly you need to go look like their 323 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:51,720 game log. They were awful. So the notion that as a ten seed 324 00:20:51,799 --> 00:20:55,759 that they could have somehow made the finals like Miami or the Lakers nearly did 325 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:57,960 was insane to me, because they could I don't think they won two games 326 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,480 in a row for a month, so they slid in and they tanked. 327 00:21:03,599 --> 00:21:06,880 They did tank, let's make that clear. But they would have been lit 328 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:11,039 up had they been in the playoffs. So everyone's killing him, understandably for 329 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,039 tanking, which why the Mavericks got killed. But you know everything, Damian 330 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,960 Lillard, you know, tanking for the fourth year in a row is somehow 331 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,079 noble. I don't understand it. They turned that that tenth pick that they 332 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:30,799 ended up with into they moved off of Lasers contract Burton's, which was a 333 00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:37,000 horrendous contract. Yeah, they picked Derek Lively, whom I was a little 334 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,200 on but I've grown to be interested in. Then they traded into the first 335 00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:48,359 round and got what's the shoot Holmes Rashaun Holmes from the Kings into the trade 336 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:53,200 exception they created from moving on from Labby and Laser, and then took Maxillun's 337 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,160 prosper So they added a big guye to the rotation who's basically been sitting on 338 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,559 ice for over a year. No goody still play by the way, idea 339 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,400 how good he is, but he's such a weird player. He has a 340 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,920 push shot from like the y m c A from the fifties. He's shooting 341 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,599 like sixty by the way, he's shooting like sixty five plus percent on those 342 00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:14,440 of the past three years. I can't wait to see Luca. I can't 343 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,319 wait to see him and Luca operate in a pick and roll because it's gonna 344 00:22:17,319 --> 00:22:21,119 be a such from such a different space than Lucas operated with other guys. 345 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,119 So that's that part's gonna be fun. I think I saw someone I thought 346 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,880 it was a bonker's take said that Lucas never had like a lob threat before, 347 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,440 and he only had Dwight Powell is the thing. And I think Rashaun 348 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,880 Holmes gives you sort of like a multi level, like a two level pick 349 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,359 and roll threat, because he has that push shot and he can also be 350 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,000 that threat at the actual rim. And so that's why I'm very intrigued by 351 00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:48,279 his bid on this roster. It's it's and he might be terrible defense too, 352 00:22:48,279 --> 00:22:51,759 but I mean, anything to make their offense a little more of variable 353 00:22:51,799 --> 00:22:56,440 as it could be fun. They also signed in what could be a very 354 00:22:56,559 --> 00:23:00,279 interesting deal Dante exim to a one year deal, but with the I think 355 00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:04,720 they have his bird rights, they could always resign him and Exam played astonishingly 356 00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:11,119 well overseas the last year. He has apparently developed a shot, which I 357 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,519 didn't, you know, as bizarre after tearing his ACL he was out of 358 00:23:14,519 --> 00:23:18,279 the league. He looks more like a small forward to me because he's like 359 00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:22,000 six to five and two hundred and twenty pounds. Look right, it's right. 360 00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:26,240 So it's just it's it's it's interesting. So it's like those were kind 361 00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:30,759 of you know, the highlights, none of them really all of them together 362 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,599 I really liked because it's they were trying to build something different within the team 363 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,039 structure, and so, you know, will it work? I don't know, 364 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,200 But like I said, from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty three, they 365 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,839 had five or six players that were the same in the rotation and that's just 366 00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:49,039 not gonna be the case this year. What are so when you're kind of 367 00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:52,880 looking at these like I'll call him back end of the off season guys that 368 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:57,279 I'm so intrigued by how the secondary like perimeter rotation shakes out and so who 369 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,759 like plays a bigger role on this team when it comes down to Jaden Hardy, 370 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,240 Seth Curry, Dante Exim like that trio. That's an interesting one. 371 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,119 A lot of the scuttle butt I've heard just from talking to people is that 372 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,119 when you look at sort of the minute distribution, Hardy might you know, 373 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,279 a lot of people expected Hardy to take a second year of growth, like 374 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,480 step in the right direction. I don't see where the minutes are coming from, 375 00:24:21,759 --> 00:24:26,359 because prior to the offseason, the mavericks best four players were all guards. 376 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,480 You have Luca Donchis, Kyrie Irving, Josh Green, Jaden Hardy. 377 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,400 Hardy I think is a particularly talented score. He has the body to where 378 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,400 I think he could become a pretty good defender if he wanted to be not 379 00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:44,799 very good on offensive playmaking kind of shockingly bad at least hand, very looseyo 380 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,519 very It's like for a point like for a guy who's a point guard, 381 00:24:47,559 --> 00:24:51,200 and like he doesn't really have a lot of functioning point guard skills. But 382 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,920 that's okay, you don't need him on this team. I think Seth Curry 383 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,400 is a breaking case of emergency type guy. They got him for a steal 384 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,799 of the deal. I also think the Mavericks would have tried and will continue 385 00:25:02,839 --> 00:25:07,039 to try to trade Tim Hardaway Jr. Because he and Seth Curry's skills kind 386 00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:11,519 of overlap. You want a guy willing to take the shots that Luca gets 387 00:25:11,559 --> 00:25:15,640 you, but Seth Curry also has a history of kind of maddening injury issues. 388 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,200 So it's you know, I'm counting on forty five games of Seth Curry 389 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,599 Excellem's kind of the X factor for me to where if he makes a difference, 390 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,960 he gives kid another look. And so that's that's the guy I'm kind 391 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:32,440 of most interested in all of this is their room or runaway however you want 392 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,400 to fame it for Jayden Hardy to actually that's not even just crack the rotation, 393 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,359 but progress on this team. I guess if you were trying to identify 394 00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:41,680 who's going to be the third ball handler off the bench, he would be 395 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,240 the best candidate. But you also have Luca and Kyrie, and it's like, 396 00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:48,640 so, what kind of opportunity is going to be there for him to 397 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,240 do that. It's really not It's something that's sort of in the back of 398 00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:56,880 everyone's head when you're really looking at the meat and potatoes of how Dallas will 399 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,359 function. But then the flip side is over an eighty two games year, 400 00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:04,079 you have two superstars, one an older one who will need you know, 401 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,759 Kyrie just gets nickeled and dimed. I know that there's all these star resting 402 00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:12,880 rules, but I don't know. I don't think you're gonna have to rest 403 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,160 Kyrie. I think you're gonna basically, he's gonna get hurt. Luca does 404 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,319 too, and so I think there'll be plenty of opportunities for these guys. 405 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,279 What my biggest beat for the Mavericks team building has been over the last two 406 00:26:22,839 --> 00:26:27,039 is that they don't anticipate or haven't anticipated, the fact that Luca's going to 407 00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:30,119 miss ten games because he plays, you know, he plays three yards in 408 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,559 a cloud of dust basketball where he just gets banged up, and that I 409 00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:38,960 think there's there's multiple options built into this roster to where I don't think they 410 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,839 miss well, they'll miss a beat, but they're prepared to deal with injuries 411 00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:47,720 and rest and guys out in a way that they haven't been at least last 412 00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:51,480 year. In particular, you had mentioned that you're a little bit more intrigued 413 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,319 by Derek Lively. Now what has swayed you there and is like looking it 414 00:26:55,319 --> 00:26:56,799 feels like there are three locks in the Big Man rotation. When you look 415 00:26:56,839 --> 00:27:02,279 at Powell, Quiba and Grant Williams, what type of opportunity will be there 416 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,559 for him or is it going to be more Derek Jones Junior and Rishaun Holmes 417 00:27:04,559 --> 00:27:07,799 in those minutes? Just what do you kind of see there? I think 418 00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:10,359 they have to throw lively out there. Otherwise it's the waste of a draft 419 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,240 pick. I think you have to see what he gives you. He started 420 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,680 the year off on Duke's bench, and then by the end of the year 421 00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:18,880 he was arguably one of the best ten defensive players in college basketball last year. 422 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,480 What intrigues me about him? And if you'll allow me a minute to 423 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:30,400 kind of ramble in minutes I need. I've been very interested in American bigs 424 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,720 since about midway through PHEBO, when it became clear that Jaren Jackson Junior was 425 00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:37,960 never taught how to rebound, and you know, comparing it to the euro 426 00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:42,640 counterparts, where these guys are just getting waxed because the European basketball players have 427 00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:48,640 skill sets that American basketball players don't. And then and then to jump in 428 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,920 a weird direction. I've this picture of Lebron James. The EBYL Basketball Tournament 429 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,240 has stuck in my head where he was surrounded by seventeen year olds that were 430 00:27:56,279 --> 00:28:00,559 bigger than he was, And I think to myself, where in the hell 431 00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:04,720 or all of these bigs going Some of them, it's like some of them 432 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,960 it makes sense. You got Carl Town's, you got Eton. They're not 433 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,359 American citizens. They go and play for their other countries. There aren't. 434 00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:17,559 But when it comes to American bigs and basketball, I think younger players get 435 00:28:17,599 --> 00:28:22,319 really if you're not a heliocentric guy, you get pushed out. You are 436 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,799 told to go be the garbage man. You are told to rebound and pass 437 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,799 to the guy that sucks. So you know, you find I think that 438 00:28:30,839 --> 00:28:33,480 there's a dearth of American big men because it's like the roles that we allow 439 00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:37,519 these guys to play, they don't really want to play them. Enter Derek 440 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:42,839 Lively, who has joined this team and basically said, I want to box 441 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,319 out, rebound role to the basket and dunk. I can do more, 442 00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:52,720 but that's how I'm gonna help this team win. And it was just so 443 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,039 shocking to hear that it's obviously pr speak. He's been told to say this 444 00:28:56,079 --> 00:29:00,440 stuff. He knows that's where his money's going to be made. But I've 445 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:06,440 watched Willie Cauley, Stein, Javail McGhee, some really true horror show centers. 446 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,680 The guys that think they're super skilled and awesome and have more to show 447 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:14,759 to the game, DeAndre Jordan, Eddie Curry, just some real rough, 448 00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:18,720 rough players the last you know, ten years of my Mavericks fandom. And 449 00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:21,480 so to hear a guy basically like I want to do what Tyson Chandler did 450 00:29:22,119 --> 00:29:25,559 is so delightful to me. And I think the only way you learn how 451 00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:29,880 to play basketball is and this is a wild concept, is by playing basketball. 452 00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:34,920 Wow, MBA teens so practice. So I think you got to throw 453 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,839 the guy out there and play him fifteen minutes a game even if he fouls 454 00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:41,920 out because he has a real fouling problem. That's okay. Do you know 455 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,160 who he sort of reminds me of? And I was, I want to 456 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:48,799 make clear as incredibly low on this player coming into last year. And I'm 457 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,319 just talking about not necessarily with their like physical attributes necessarily, but I was 458 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,359 low on this player last year. He ended up being spectacular just how he 459 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,799 plays within himself or wants to play within this specific role I could see like 460 00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:07,000 a Walker Kessler type of turn for him. There's definitely more like I think 461 00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:11,319 explosion there, and I don't think the opportunity that Kessler eventually got in Utah 462 00:30:11,359 --> 00:30:15,440 will be there in year one, but I can kind of see that level 463 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,680 of defense from him, like all his wayscan is enormous. One of the 464 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,119 things I did like about him in Summer League is that he didn't do the 465 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:27,000 big man things that left his teammates hanging out to dry. JaVale McGee is 466 00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:30,680 one of the most frustrating basketball players I've ever seen in my entire life, 467 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,759 because he's so athletically gifted, but he commits to doing the wrong thing with 468 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,559 such like tenacity and if he just it's like, don't get out of position, 469 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,640 just put your big hands up in the air. Stand there, box 470 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:47,000 out, go get the rebound. And that's the sort of stuff that Lili 471 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,039 Lively was doing. Where it's during summer the Yeah, the Mavericks had scored 472 00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:52,079 on Yeah, they made a lot of mistakes, but it was never, 473 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,440 Oh, this happened because he chased a block and ended up being four feet 474 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,519 out of the lane, so an offensive rebound happened. That makes sense. 475 00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:03,359 Yeah, I get that. So it's like the minimization of mistakes I think 476 00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:08,160 will benefit him under a guy like kid who is a bit intense. Could 477 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,319 he, though, get lost in the shuffle of just like having Rashaun Holmes 478 00:31:11,319 --> 00:31:15,160 there? And I think some people still view Derek Jones Junior as a wing. 479 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,359 He's a big and it's like you have him, Yeah, he's a 480 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,440 six six big. Yeah. Could he get lost? Like could Lively get 481 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,039 lost in that shuffle just by virtue of being a rookie? Yes, But 482 00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:29,160 if he does do that, they will send him down to their G League 483 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,160 affiliate where he will get minutes. And that played very well for Jaden Hardy. 484 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,680 And obviously they're two very different positions, but Hardy had kind of a 485 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,359 twenty he had if you break his season down to the twenty game stretches every 486 00:31:40,359 --> 00:31:42,119 twenty games, he was doing something a little bit different and a little bit 487 00:31:42,119 --> 00:31:45,240 better. And I mentioned earlier in the podcast, by game fifty, I 488 00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:48,240 expect something from Lively and that's sort of where I am right now. I 489 00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:51,599 would love for them to play him more, but the more I think about 490 00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:55,759 it, the more I realize it's probably not realistic. Maybe if there's like 491 00:31:55,799 --> 00:31:59,039 trades that they make mid season that would open up extra playing time. Who 492 00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:02,200 knows, but we mentioned the defense already. Is there any just sort of 493 00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:07,960 low hanging fruit this team is built to improve upon or can feasibly improve upon 494 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,799 when you're looking at just maybe lineups with better rebounding aside from Luca being your 495 00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:15,079 best rebound or just foiling less, anything like that that could help them, 496 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:16,880 because I think you look at the town, it's like, no, they're 497 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,720 not gonna what were they sixth in twenty one twenty two and points slot for 498 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,519 possession or whatever, even if they hustle their asses off. I would be 499 00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:27,079 shocked if they could replicate something like that. There's duringly low hanging fruit that 500 00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:30,880 you think that they can clean up that would make a big difference. Honestly, 501 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,440 No. I think one thing that will help though, and I don't 502 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,279 see this as a realistic thing, but it's a guy can dream. Jason 503 00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:42,319 Kidd has to realize when lineups don't work. He stuck to the McGhee of 504 00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:45,359 it all for ten games and they lost more games than they should have to 505 00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:49,480 start the season, and no small part because of his commitment to McGhee. 506 00:32:50,359 --> 00:32:52,720 I get that they have a lot of new options, but basketball, it's 507 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,640 like Greg Popovich talked about this during his Hall of Fame speech. He's like, 508 00:32:55,759 --> 00:33:00,240 there's nothing new under the sun here. You know, don't need you 509 00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:04,759 know, two hundred minutes to figure out that the lineup that you know, 510 00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:08,160 we're Luca nanchen is your tallest player is not great for defense like that sort 511 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:14,559 of stuff. So we'll see. This is it's such a lazy question, 512 00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:16,720 but I think it matters the manas were in this weird spot where they haven't 513 00:33:16,759 --> 00:33:20,319 pushed in all their chips, Like there are moves on the trade market they 514 00:33:20,319 --> 00:33:23,519 could make, but you've also made some pretty high stakes moves. Even just 515 00:33:23,599 --> 00:33:27,519 looking at the Kyrie Irving acquisition, I would say Grant Williams as well. 516 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,839 Is this a team that you know, we're fifteen or twenty games into the 517 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,079 season, we could see some existential fireworks where it's, oh, Jason Kidd 518 00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:37,680 is on the hot seat if they don't start off well or are they more 519 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,039 likely to then just sort of reseek out reinforcements on the trade market. Then 520 00:33:42,079 --> 00:33:45,480 looking at the you know, the coaching aspect, that should be the case, 521 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,519 and if this were any other NBA team. Two things work against this. 522 00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:53,920 The first is that Mark Cuban made the higher Mark Cuban made the higher 523 00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:58,839 at Rick Carlisle's behest. I think Rick sort of thought it was a joke. 524 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,279 I don't know that for certain, but it's like you rarely let the 525 00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:07,039 guy you're firing pick the coach you're hiring next. Mark Human is a stubborn 526 00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:12,679 man. That is thing number one. So even though Jason Kidd has every 527 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,280 single team he's coached, he's only has you know, two other teams, 528 00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:20,400 they don't perform well the longer he's there. That's just the historical fact to 529 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,119 this point. The other problem challenge with moving on from Jason Kidd is I 530 00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:30,519 think he has Kyrie Irving's buy in and that can't be under sold as to 531 00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:38,039 the importance there. It's it's Kyrie Irving and mercurial as he is. He 532 00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:42,519 has talked about how Jason Kidd was one of his favorite players growing up and 533 00:34:42,559 --> 00:34:47,559 that that matters, and keeping Kyrie locked in, you can't really put a 534 00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:51,079 price on that. While you can't put a price on that based off of 535 00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:52,199 some of the things he's done for their teams. So it's just that that's 536 00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:57,840 the sort of where I fall. I think that they have a pretty good 537 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,719 likelihood of starting out the season rough because they're an overseas trip in preseason and 538 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,119 that's just kind of an historical thing. There's been a few outlier teams, 539 00:35:05,159 --> 00:35:08,719 but it's difficult to get and then then they have a youngish team. But 540 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,400 I think they just sort of stick with it. They have one more trade 541 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,079 chip that they could really push in if they wanted to, in their twenty 542 00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:17,559 twenty seven draft pick. I don't think that moves the needle on anything. 543 00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:22,320 I think them and the Hawks are engaged into like a low stake staring contest 544 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:27,079 over whether the Hawks want to give up Clint Capella, and I think that 545 00:35:27,079 --> 00:35:30,480 would mean like taking back like Tim Hardaway, but I don't think they want 546 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,000 to do it. And the Mavericks certainly aren't going to give up a first 547 00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:36,599 round pick to give up, you know, potentially like Overwripe Banana and Clint 548 00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:43,599 Capella. There's always some things there. I will say the Nico Harrison has 549 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:49,159 proven and they've hired some salary cap guys from the Knicks. The front office 550 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,039 has been reshaped into a place where Cuban still has a voice, but he 551 00:35:53,159 --> 00:35:58,000 is not the voice, and I think that's helped them a lot this last 552 00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:01,000 year. We are about to enter the cookie cutter portion of the podcast. 553 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:07,199 Are you are you ready sure? Are there any strength or concerns about this 554 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,199 team that have flown that are flying under the radar that we haven't discussed yet? 555 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:22,719 Strengths, No, the concerns are are are probably the youth. Where 556 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,079 Matt Moore of Action Network said to me yesterdays, like, are you really 557 00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:28,559 this in on a team that might need to rely on rookies? And I'm 558 00:36:28,559 --> 00:36:31,440 like, yeah, but it's better than if they had made the playoffs and 559 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,599 not had either of these guys like then they would have would have been real 560 00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:37,760 bleak. Who would have been trying to get excited about Grant Williams, Lucananjich 561 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,440 and Kyrie Irving And that's it. So it's it's the youth of it all. 562 00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:45,840 I've talked about it some, but I'm pretty I'm more excited about it 563 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,920 than others. I think, what is so as of right now, what 564 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,079 would you think at full strength of ten man rotation ends up looking like I 565 00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:57,360 think there are I mean I jotted down in the outline. I think there's 566 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,920 probably like eight locks. It's feels like with two spots sort of up for 567 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:06,000 grabs. There's Luca Kyrie, THHJ. Grant, Williams, Dwight Powell, 568 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,119 Josh Green, and Kleiba and Jaden Hardy would be my locks. I don't 569 00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:12,840 know if you agree with those eight. I don't have Jaden Hardy as a 570 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,559 lock, So I have Luca Kyrie, Tim Hardaway, Grant Williams, Dwight 571 00:37:16,639 --> 00:37:23,119 Powell, MAXI Kleiba uh, and then I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna put o 572 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:30,360 Max in there. I'm not I really am a secret deep sleeper. Is 573 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:36,559 this guy that they signed to a two way named Mike Miles JR TCU. 574 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,920 He's another They just said he's a kid guy again, like a hard like 575 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,239 a guy willing to play his absolute ass off. That's That's just what the 576 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,239 Mavericks have right now. This is to some extent matchup dependent. But what 577 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,840 do you think should be their most preferred closing five unit? Is it just 578 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,719 the starting five or could you see some tinkering there? No, I think 579 00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,199 you if you start with Powell or if you start with Holmes, I think 580 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,039 you have to end with Maxi Cleba. Cleban drives me crazy because he's so 581 00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:07,199 hit or miss, but if he's if he's healthy, then I I and 582 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,320 you know he tore his hamstring last year and wasn't really right after that. 583 00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:15,360 If he can be healthy, he's sort of the stretch five that that the 584 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,760 team needs. And I think you can play him and Grant Williams together with 585 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:22,960 Kyrie and Luca and that's pretty smallish. But if you're to play uh, 586 00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:27,559 you know, you have your options there that as the fifth guy anywhere from 587 00:38:27,559 --> 00:38:30,880 Tim Hardaway, Josh Green to too even O Max or Dante Exum like, 588 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,480 I think they have real optionality there. But I would say Luca, Kyrie, 589 00:38:35,519 --> 00:38:40,599 Grant Williams and Uh, Maxi Clebo would be my like consistent lock for 590 00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:45,719 for four of the five guys. Is there a quirky weirdo on conventional lineup 591 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,320 you would like to see him try this season? Even to say, I'm 592 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,639 not sure because the whole lineup is weird where it's think when your point guard 593 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:58,239 six five and you're shooting guards six two and your your your power forward is 594 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,039 six five, Like, there's just weirdness going on here. The whole thing 595 00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:07,519 is weird. I just I just don't know. I'm gonna be curious to 596 00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:10,840 see if Derek Jones actually gets any run. He's pretty interesting out of Pick 597 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,519 and Roll. There's there's just there's some odd options, but nothing really is 598 00:39:15,559 --> 00:39:20,000 jumping out at me at the moment. I think I'd like to see them 599 00:39:20,039 --> 00:39:22,239 play what would be their version of super Big but not Too Big, where 600 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,920 it's Luca Graham Williams who's not big. I want to make that clear. 601 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,960 MAXI Kleiba and now I'm all in on o Max after you just said him 602 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:34,239 and then like, let's throw Dante x him in there is like another bigger 603 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,280 guard or something, just to see what that looks like. But you're right, 604 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:38,760 I guess the whole roster is kind of weird, and any line up 605 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,480 you put the even that lineup, I'm like, that kind of makes sense 606 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,079 in some ways. It's not really weird though, but that might just be 607 00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:49,000 relative to the state of the roster right now. Yeah, yeah, no, 608 00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:52,199 it's it's it's a it's an odd situation. So their win total is 609 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,960 currently set as we record this, it is September twenty eight at forty four 610 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,960 and a half. Would you lean over or under on that, And how 611 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,599 do you you know which teams are you sure are better than them? In 612 00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:09,079 the Western Conference? Right now, I'd probably go under, just because I'm 613 00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:13,320 still i still got kind of the nasty taste of a thirty eight win season 614 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,599 in my mouth. But when I look at the Western Conference, you go, 615 00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:21,840 I'm very confident that Denver is better than them. I'm confident about Phoenix, 616 00:40:22,119 --> 00:40:27,440 Golden State, as much as it pains me, the Lakers, the 617 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,920 thunder those are those are the main teams I am not. Memphis can kiss 618 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,159 my ass. The Mavericks play them three times in the first twenty five games, 619 00:40:36,199 --> 00:40:38,440 and that's like when Jaws out, and I just think Dallas is going 620 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:44,639 to annihilate them. The Kings are probably better too. I think I skipped 621 00:40:44,639 --> 00:40:47,559 them by accident. I don't believe in the Pelicans. I don't believe in 622 00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:52,440 the Timberwolves. Yeah, there's certain teams where I'm just like total disdain for. 623 00:40:53,039 --> 00:40:57,400 But we'll see. It's it's a long season. I think you have 624 00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,480 more. I know it's right now it's tough to lose, but I think 625 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,599 you have more teams that I'm I would guarantee are better than the Mavericks than 626 00:41:01,639 --> 00:41:05,599 I would, because I'm I'm like kind of only in on in the Western 627 00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:07,800 Conference, Phoenix in Denver. I'm just like, those are the top of 628 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:13,000 the West. And then you could almost tell me any order that doesn't involve 629 00:41:13,039 --> 00:41:15,639 the Rockets of the Spurs shooting into the playoffs, and I'd probably buy it. 630 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:22,639 The Warriors are just such a pain matchup for Dallas because the ideal perfect 631 00:41:22,679 --> 00:41:27,800 center to play with, Luca John Chich is on their roster. It's and 632 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,360 he you know, he's he's he's the guy who's gonna save American American basketball 633 00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:37,599 next year. And Kevon Looney he's gonna be our guy in the in the 634 00:41:37,679 --> 00:41:42,519 United States playoffs. I this is this my my bizarre take, but it's 635 00:41:42,599 --> 00:41:45,239 they just they're not a good matchup for the Mavericks. Mavericks can run them 636 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,519 off the floor sometimes because that's just how basketball goes. But that's just where 637 00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:53,039 my head is. I mean the Clippers, I just I have also PTSD 638 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:59,119 from the only two the only two series that quite that the Clippers have ever 639 00:41:59,119 --> 00:42:01,760 been any good at where the dang series where they beat the Mavericks both times. 640 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,800 Yeah, and that was one of those series was that the bubble, 641 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:07,679 what was the teams or Chris Stops was actually playing really well? Yes, 642 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,920 and it was. I got this poster up on my board where it's like 643 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,079 the triple the double overtime game where Luca had like forty five, sixteen and 644 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:21,199 seventeen and then they lost the series because of course they did. Is there 645 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,079 anything anyone else we haven't discussed that you think we need to cover before we 646 00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:28,679 get out of here. You have any strong thoughts on Luca Dotchich's offseason conditioning. 647 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,559 I'm pleased with his conditioning. He looked good in the World Cup and 648 00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:39,639 for the first half the World Cup he managed to basically ignore the challenging referees 649 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:44,599 and be a good sport and then he got thrown out during the quarterfinals. 650 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:51,559 And I don't Luca is going to come in this year and the narrative around 651 00:42:51,639 --> 00:42:54,639 him fairly so let me point out, is going to be one hundred percent 652 00:42:54,719 --> 00:43:01,480 villain oriented. People are fucking sick of him. So the complaining is as 653 00:43:01,559 --> 00:43:06,199 a I don't want to say impartial observer, I guess, but like from 654 00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:07,960 someone who's just ten thousand foot view and covers the entire league, it is 655 00:43:08,039 --> 00:43:12,280 very annoying to watch him complain over and over again. No, it's awful, 656 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,440 Kirk. This was fun as always. I appreciate the time are you're 657 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,039 just able to tell our listeners where they can find you and all the great 658 00:43:17,039 --> 00:43:21,039 work that you do. If you would like to find us. For the 659 00:43:21,079 --> 00:43:24,559 website, I run MAVs Moneyball dot com. If you're interested in any podcast 660 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:30,519 or video, there's a YouTube channel, pod Maverick, and then the podcast 661 00:43:30,679 --> 00:43:35,760 is this audio version only pod Maverick on anywhere you can get your stuff. 662 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,719 I run my cost and I will basically do a recap after every game and 663 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:45,280 then I run like a late night lunatics lounge of sorts depending on whether the 664 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,480 Mavericks win or lose. That's just like me. And you're talking here on 665 00:43:47,519 --> 00:43:51,760 this app where I am crazy enough to where I send out that link that 666 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,599 you can have. I put it out there on social media and people just 667 00:43:54,679 --> 00:43:59,280 come and join and we talk about ball till you know, one, two, 668 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,760 three in the morning. And all those things I've seen some I don't 669 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,719 know that I've seen them live. I've seen some of those things are bear 670 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,119 So you guys do a great job. You engagement on that stuff. The 671 00:44:07,159 --> 00:44:10,079 links to all those things will be in our podcast and YouTube description for those 672 00:44:10,159 --> 00:44:15,119 listening. As always, Kirk, I really do appreciate the time, and 673 00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:16,920 as I'm sure you know by now, i'll be spamming your dms again in 674 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,880 the future. Of course, thanks for having me