What is up, fellow thermonuclear a empers. I am Dan Favalley coming at
you with another twenty twenty three twenty twenty four NBA team look Ahead. We
are on to the Dallas Mavericks and that means we must we have to.
We're excited to speak with Kirk Henderson. Follow him on Twitter at Kirk Serious
Space. That's with a K and the rest is spelled exactly as it sounds.
He does stuff at MAV's Moneyball and he is also the host, right
co host of that that's not on your bio but the po I've listened to
you on it pod Mavericks on the Blue Wire Podcast Network. Did I get
that right? That's right, Kirk? How are you doing Okay? We're
apparently close to basketball season. I've had a long time off, so it's
been weird to be like, oh, hey, we need to start doing
doing math stuff again. It's always sort of a I started them a little
early this year to try to not be out of my mind by the time
we're getting to open a night with the look Aheads. But whenever I start
the series, I'm like, oh, the NBA off season is just it's
over, Like for me, and I'm not gonna liees I've gotten older.
I've grown to like very much appreciate the off season. I'm so saturated with
basketball content, like ten and a half months out of the year, that
does like six weeks or so go by way too quick for me. That's
right, just catching up on stuff, enjoying not doing things until the dead
of night, and it's it is nice. But I think once I once
I see some games, you know, and I really didn't enjoy the World
Cup, but that was at like six in the morning, so that was
like a very different basketball experience. Once once uh, the night games flare
up again, I think I'll enjoy getting back into the rhythm again. It's
a year. It's somehow year ten or eleven for me. At Math's Moneyball,
so oh wow, I am at year. If you do Math carry
the six, No, I'm you're twelve. At bleacher Report, I think,
so we're getting I would say it goes by quickly, but that's not
really true. It's just you know, certain things where it's like, wow,
was that long ago? Like my coast and I last night, I
started talking about Josh Howard's rookie season, which just happened to be twenty years
ago? What the world? Oh man? Yeah, that's like I have
those reminders every so often, like seeing kind of like Lebron and Steph and
kd get older. Is the sobering reminder, like, dude, you're you're
getting You're getting up there. I'm with you though that I get excited for
the season, but I very quickly. I don't know if you get like
I know you're following the cover of the MAVs, but that like first couple
of nights where there's like the twelve or thirteen games, I get I have
like this existential dread. I just get so anxious, like how how did
I do this all these other years? Yep, yep, it's great.
So the Mavericks, let's start with Kyrie Irving here before we get to just
the attractor every Well, how did you feel about the contract they ended up
giving him? You knew they were gonna resign him. I think a lot
of people were just like, why are you getting in the Kyrie irving business?
They were already in the Kyrie irving business? Like relative to that,
what did you think of the contract terms that they came to I was not
particularly thrilled, but then then just because I sort of took the Bill Simmons
tack of like who else is giving him that money? But you know,
as I've sat with it for most of the summer, I tend to agree
with I've sort of moved a little bit in the sense of I think you
have to pace. You want him to feel respected. Kyrie Irving is a
particularly difficult person to talk about in all sorts of ways, but you want
him, like, you don't want to give him any reasons to not show
up to work and a three year deal. No one else is giving him
a three year deal forty million. No one else is giving him forty million.
But what the Mavericks weren't going to do anything else with the money because
they didn't, you know, they were the only team they could go over
the cap to keep him, and it just it's sort of worked, and
you know, the player option of it all is very interesting to me.
Kyrie Irving is not you know, he's a small, slight guy. That's
one thing that I don't think is really translated on TV because he's obviously like
wondrously athletic and so gifted, but he's like a one hundred and seventy five
pounds. It's like small guards like that, just it's it's tough. So
it's like his game will probably age well because it's it's so beautiful. But
at the same time, it's a thirty three year old Kyrie Irving might struggle
to stay on the floor just because I mean, lord, I'm approaching forty
and it's sometimes hard for me to get out of bed in the morning.
So it's it's, you know, as you get older, it's just tough
to do this sort of stuff. And I don't know, I think it
probably works out for the beast Hillfield respected. I think I think the Mavericks
are are, you know, taking this one year at a time. They
have one good year out of Kyrie Irving, and I think that that is
pretty important to to what, you know, for the starting point of what
they're trying to rebuild here. When I saw the terms of the deal submax
money, they didn't go out four years the player option, like you said,
is interesting. I just thought you were going to keep him. I
thought it worked. I think I thought it worked out as well as it
could be expected for the MAVs, given out invest that they were in this.
What did you actually think though of the on court fit, both during
the Luca and non Luca minutes, because I do think a lot of what
happened with the MAVs towards the NLST season, aside from them deciding to punt
on the playoffs, it was just attributed to the Kyrie Irving trade. They
were having issues beforehand. They were winning the minutes those two were on the
court, and I just I'm not, like, you know, I wonder
if Kyrie was gonna show up to work. You gotta mention that before,
like I am one of those people, But I just don't know. I
didn't see anything that I thought made the fit terrible or that anything went wrong
with the Mavericks needed to be ascribed to him. I thought it was absolutely
electric when Kyrie and Luca played together. One of the things that I could
tell from just kind of the national pundits was whether or not you know when
you start Kyrie and Luca can't play together. No, they can play together
just fine. They had a lot of fun. Their minutes were fantastic,
and they kind of ruled if you were watching a lot of the games.
I mean, they played Philadelphia where each of them scored forty and it was
incredible. The problem came with the fact that they gave up just the kind
of pieces that were keeping everything together by you know, kind of with like
sticks and glue, and when you trade, you know, the connective tissue
of the team, and like a Dorian Finney Smith, that means everything else
sort of falls apart because they were playing brutal lineups last year they got they
were already small before they traded all the pieces to get Kyrie, and then
they ended up just tiny. Luca was often the best rebounder that that's you
know, that's some of that's by design, but it ends up eating things
up. And so it's just the non Luca minute. Like everything with those
two were fine, even Kyrie, you know, leading the team, which
he did. I think he played the first three games without Luca, they
were like three to zero. It was he was great. It's just the
Mavericks as a team were so is bleak because in April, March and April
twenty nineteen they had particular lineups which featured like Jalen Brunson, Tim Hardaway,
Maxi Kleeba, Dwight Powell, Luca Don Chich and at least one other guy.
It was like six or seven people, and then darn Finnish Smith and
then as of February twenty twenty three, those players were all still on the
team and in the lineup. So they just rolled out the same group over
and over and over again. And they just needed to do something different because
they were diminishing returns on a lot of that stuff. And so to get
Kyrie Irving, I was not particularly thrilled, just because I'm not. It's
when you have Kyrie on your team, you just got to take it a
season at a time. You're not to think assuming that you're building around Kyrie
is messy. It just because it hasn't worked. It hasn't worked since he
left, since the championship in Cleveland, he's barely gone a year, or
where he's been particular. It's it's anything past year seems to be, you
know, particularly challenging. It's just it's not something I think you can do.
But I enjoyed the fit. I'm looking forward to seeing what they can
do now that they have a whole host of new pieces, and at the
very least it's gonna be interesting. The Mavericks of last year were not interesting.
They were mediocre to bad and boring, and that's not fun to watch.
No, And I think, really the I think I used to be
like this where I was worried about the one ball stuff years ago, and
then just ever since, probably like Lebron and Kyrie around that time, I've
just been like, they're gonna figure it out, like James Harden Chris Paul
figured it out. Look what Brooklyn was when they were actually available, Like
he said, the offense was electric. The devents was the concern in large
part because it wasn't great to begin with. You trade it away, Dorren
Finnie Smith, you already mentioned that. I think they were around the bottom
five and points a lot per possession once Kyrie made his debut. There was
availability issues and sure they clearly knew that was a weakness. They go after
Matisse, Thyball, they end up with you know, you add Dante exam,
but they end up with Grant Williams. I'm curious how you feel about
the Grant Williams fit, especially given how it was framed, because you give
up the twenty thirty swap and then a lot of people are talking about like,
yeah, this is someone who's really gonna anchor I saw him like called
a wing a bunch of times. I'm like, he's very switchable, but
he's not a wing. Like those were not the assignments that he was just
taking last year, and so I'm just like, what are the expectations for
him won? And then you know, divorcing those or I guess attaching them
to reality. I should say, like, how do you feel about the
overall fit of Grant Williams and Dallas? Well, you're right, It's funny.
There was a particular MAVs podcaster who I know last night Grant Williams is
at the Wings game and he took a picture with Tim Hardaway and the guy
was like, what what, Grant Williams is shorter than Tim Hardaway And it's
like, yeah, he's like a six five power forward. He's he's PJ.
Tucker at Texas with a little more youth in his legs, and he's
very interesting on passing. He's a weird player. He's a weird player that
I think fits in weird ways and gives this team a lot of optionality.
He is not going to fix their problems. But the other part of that
is their problems on the wing were so bad that even if he's not a
good solution, he's still better than what they were rolling out there. So
I think like this assumption that he is going to be any sort of stopper
is pretty silly. I do think that he allows their defense to be very
multiple depending on who else he's out there with. Like if Maxi Kleeba can
stay any approximation of healthy for part of the year, I think him and
Grant Williams will have a lot of fun with like their switchability yea and things
like that. So so you ask if here in the in the sheet said,
is he also like a lot to start? I think so. But
I'll so think what Jason Kidd has now in this lineup is a bunch of
weird guys where it's like Luca's gonna play point at six eight, Kyrie will
play shooting guard at six two. We'll probably throw out somebody like Tim Hardaway
to start the year at three. But I think, oh, Max Olivier,
Max saus Prosper, their second first round draft pick, will probably end
up starting at some point just because he just bringings Jason Kidd to me.
I mean, he's he's just like he's he's a big guy like he number
one, the guys enormous like he is Paul George sized like I can't And
after having a bunch of undersized wings like Josh Green for years, I'm looking
for it. So it's like that guy at like six eight, I'll play
wit probably played the three and maybe a little bit of four. And it's
just like, remember, you're not asking a lot of these guys to do
a lot of playmaking because Kyrie and Luca are gonna be doing most strubbling.
So it's like, can you move, can you cut? Can you post?
Do you know where you're supposed to be? Can you play defense?
And I think so that sort of variability that Grant Williams will give teams.
I think he'll start, but if he doesn't always start, I think that's
fine too. Do you think it's sort of suggest that they are going to
switch a lot more or at least make it a crutch because you have him.
I think we've seen the Kyrie switched in Boston years ago. I believe
a bunch and Luca has size. You mentioned Maxi Kleiba. They're still Dwight
Powell here, So is that like does that intimate and they don't have like
a like a true blue rim protector on this team, I guess, unless
you expect that to be Derek Lively or I do, but not until like
game fifty, so it's like to start the year. I do think they
go with a really switch heavy, effort based scheme. I mean, I
don't think Kid can coach a lick honestly, but one thing he did do
was get him to play really hard in twenty twenty two, twenty I'm sorry,
twenty one twenty two. So I do think that they can do that
again and at least seal some games that way. I mean, really,
it comes down to, like Kyrie gave great effort on defense last year,
they need to get Luca to give consistently great effort because he's gonna get targeted
a lot, but he's huge, So it's like, if you know,
you at least like use what you got. And so I think, like
on paper, at least the idea makes sense with sort of a switch heavy
scheme and really effort based. I'm at least intrigued with what they're going to
try to do defensively. It does seem that just based on how the roster
is set up, regardless of what defensive scheme you're going to run. And
we saw this to an extent last year, that there's a ton of pressure
on Josh Green defensively in addition to what we've seen what we saw from him
offensively like progression last year. So how do you feel about, like,
is he up to that sort of task to be, you know, their
top wing defender and then a bizarre basketball player, really bizarre basketball player.
You look at his numbers, they just don't make sense. He averages nine
points a game while shooting forty percent from three. And then you go look
at his box score and he'll have six games in a row where he has
zero points, and then they'll have four games in a row where he scores
over twenty. He And I know you asked about his defense, but I
think he's just he's a weird player that I don't know how to talk about,
you know. And I don't think he's a good defender. He's small.
He's a six four. He's not six five two hundred. You know,
he's a stocky guy, but he's small. You see that whenever you
pair him up against any true like you know, kind of a caliber wing
in the NBA. He's a six four shooting guard, is what he is.
And to me, you know, he's up for a contract extension.
I think they get that done just like kind of blocked him. Do Yeah,
I do, because like, what what are you gonna you know,
let him play it out and go get twenty million dollars a year or somewhere,
and why not pay him, you know, about the same as the
Lakers just paid what's his name. Yeah, So something like that, where
it's like a four or fifty five million dollars a year or something like that.
I mean, even if it's more than that, yeah, it's it'd
be fine. And it's like, didn't even if if he doesn't work out,
you move him down the road. He's a guy and considering where he
was during Rick Carlisle's like rookie, Like during his rookie year, I thought
he was going to be out of the league. So him being functional is
impressive. But I don't, I don't I think they can really count counting
him. I really don't. I keep going back to the rookie omax.
I really think that guy's gonna just play twenty to twenty five minutes a game.
By season's end, maybe not like averaging for the whole year, but
I think he'll be a key part of their rotation really quickly. On Josh
Green, it's like you just don't buy into like the stability like he did
get like his driving game improved a bunch last year. Like that's just not
You don't count on him as a stable offensive he was. I don't because
it's he doesn't have the score mindset, and so I think that can harm
it. Like when he was out there with either Luca or Kyrie, he
was pretty good. When he was out there with both of them, he
was remarkably matt He's kind of a weird X factor player. He does odd
things with the basketball that players don't anticipate, and so that can work both
foreign against him. But if he's out there and he's not getting the ball
a ton, I don't really think he's that effective. He's not a good
he's a good standing, like catch and shoot guy, but he's not a
guy who will naturally take like six open threes a game. He kind of
does like the auto rotate thing where you can see he's gonna make the pass
even before he gets it. Does that make any sense? No? I
get that. Yeah, it's just it's it's not really he's improved so much,
but I just I have concerns about what his top level ought to be.
That's not to say I don't think they should pay him. I just
said they should. But yeah, I just I don't know what I don't
see this Like, It's not like he's some burgeoning hidden superstar. He's a
guy. He'll play ten years in the league and be fine his first team.
All people want you to know they watch a lot of basketball though,
when they talk about so you caned o Max twice. I didn't have him
on the outline until lower so we have to talk about him. You mentioned
he's a Jason Kid player. I think he's shot. I saw his like
forty one point eight percent on NBA range threes last year two, So is
that like part of the appeal. It's like, you just want us around
Kyrie and Luca with a bunch of three in D guys, and right now,
I guess the only three D guy on this roster would be Grant Williams.
Like, do you consider like throwing Josh Green in that conversation like a
little bit a little bit yellow omax, That is the appeal. And there's
also so I've gone to Summer League every year for ten years. I have
watched some horrific that's a lot of Vegas by the way. Well, and
just the Mavericks have not ever been good. They were good in Summer League
the year that they had Jalen Brunson, Luca couldn't play. Brunson was so
bad at Summer League I thought he was a bust. Like that was kind
of the root of my Brunson disbelief. He was awful at Summer League,
and I watched so much bad basketball the good parts stand out in my mind,
So perhaps I'm overrating him. But during Summer League, I saw a
guy that was much bigger than I realized, much stronger than I realized,
and had a willingness to do stuff with the basketball. And so when I
see a guy you know lots of like we moved off ball real well attacked.
Well. He gave the guy who the Pacers drafted at eight, what's
his name, shoot Jaris. He gave Jaris Walker the business. I mean,
absolutely took his lunch money in a game. And I'm probably overrating that
sort of stuff, but I just haven't seen it. From a Mavericks player
before, and so I think that he's going to be a guy very and
I sort of compared him to Josh Green last night, where in Josh Green's
not Josh Green, Josh Howard, two thousand and three dollars Mavericks draft pick
who came into a very good team and slow, and not that the Mavericks
are a good team now, but as a rookie, earned his minutes in
like a garbage man way, getting offensive rebounds Locke, like playing hard defense,
and like with a team with Luca and Kyrie, that's all you need.
You just need a guy willing to do that stuff, and so you
throw all those sids and everything else. I find myself unreasonably excited about him.
Plus the fact that the Celtics lost their minds on Draft night when the
Mavericks snuck up and took him, because they traded back three times after the
Mavericks took him. That's how flustered they were by that baby. Maybe this
will be another Desmond Bame all over again, different obviously, because that was
the actual Celtics pick. But uh, and look, the threes he's gonna
get from Luca and Kyrie are just like they're gonna tee him up. And
so I think that's a reason to buy into a shooting and I think to
an extent, that can streamline your offensive development where it's, hey, we
need you to do X, Y and Z on defense, but like you're
just gonna like you're just gonna fan out and dot the arc on offense,
and like, these guys are gonna see you right up. So I'm officially,
after listening to you, way more excited to watch Oh Max than I
was coming into this podcast. You'll see him, and I think you'll understand
what I mean where it's just like NBA players and this doesn't come across in
TV. A lot of NBA players are very thin and to the point where
it's like, wow, these guys like Dirk Nevitsky and Tyson Chandler were so
dang skinny. I mean, I wait, two hundred and forty pounds from
sixty three Dirk seven foot he wigh two hundred and forty pounds. It's like
it's just a different body type. So when I see a guy that's why
I like Lebron just stands out. Why you know, Zion Williams and obviously
just stands out O Max has shoulders that look like a line backer, and
I just I'm addicted to those kind of like like tough dude traits. I
could be completely off base, but I find myself excited. They did a
lot of other stuff over the off season, and we generally, I will
say the only thing I was uncomfortable with about their off season was just that
twenty thirty swap. Just the idea that you've kind of given up control of,
like those two back end picks in twenty nine and thirty. I really
liked their off season overall of the other moves that they made, Like,
there is there anything that stood out that you really liked that you were concerned
about. What were just your general impressions of their off season looking at it
in some oh man, So the fact that they so for everyone who may
have forgotten they slow ten, you know, they were just awful from March
first on that that can't really be properly you need to go look like their
game log. They were awful. So the notion that as a ten seed
that they could have somehow made the finals like Miami or the Lakers nearly did
was insane to me, because they could I don't think they won two games
in a row for a month, so they slid in and they tanked.
They did tank, let's make that clear. But they would have been lit
up had they been in the playoffs. So everyone's killing him, understandably for
tanking, which why the Mavericks got killed. But you know everything, Damian
Lillard, you know, tanking for the fourth year in a row is somehow
noble. I don't understand it. They turned that that tenth pick that they
ended up with into they moved off of Lasers contract Burton's, which was a
horrendous contract. Yeah, they picked Derek Lively, whom I was a little
on but I've grown to be interested in. Then they traded into the first
round and got what's the shoot Holmes Rashaun Holmes from the Kings into the trade
exception they created from moving on from Labby and Laser, and then took Maxillun's
prosper So they added a big guye to the rotation who's basically been sitting on
ice for over a year. No goody still play by the way, idea
how good he is, but he's such a weird player. He has a
push shot from like the y m c A from the fifties. He's shooting
like sixty by the way, he's shooting like sixty five plus percent on those
of the past three years. I can't wait to see Luca. I can't
wait to see him and Luca operate in a pick and roll because it's gonna
be a such from such a different space than Lucas operated with other guys.
So that's that part's gonna be fun. I think I saw someone I thought
it was a bonker's take said that Lucas never had like a lob threat before,
and he only had Dwight Powell is the thing. And I think Rashaun
Holmes gives you sort of like a multi level, like a two level pick
and roll threat, because he has that push shot and he can also be
that threat at the actual rim. And so that's why I'm very intrigued by
his bid on this roster. It's it's and he might be terrible defense too,
but I mean, anything to make their offense a little more of variable
as it could be fun. They also signed in what could be a very
interesting deal Dante exim to a one year deal, but with the I think
they have his bird rights, they could always resign him and Exam played astonishingly
well overseas the last year. He has apparently developed a shot, which I
didn't, you know, as bizarre after tearing his ACL he was out of
the league. He looks more like a small forward to me because he's like
six to five and two hundred and twenty pounds. Look right, it's right.
So it's just it's it's it's interesting. So it's like those were kind
of you know, the highlights, none of them really all of them together
I really liked because it's they were trying to build something different within the team
structure, and so, you know, will it work? I don't know,
But like I said, from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty three, they
had five or six players that were the same in the rotation and that's just
not gonna be the case this year. What are so when you're kind of
looking at these like I'll call him back end of the off season guys that
I'm so intrigued by how the secondary like perimeter rotation shakes out and so who
like plays a bigger role on this team when it comes down to Jaden Hardy,
Seth Curry, Dante Exim like that trio. That's an interesting one.
A lot of the scuttle butt I've heard just from talking to people is that
when you look at sort of the minute distribution, Hardy might you know,
a lot of people expected Hardy to take a second year of growth, like
step in the right direction. I don't see where the minutes are coming from,
because prior to the offseason, the mavericks best four players were all guards.
You have Luca Donchis, Kyrie Irving, Josh Green, Jaden Hardy.
Hardy I think is a particularly talented score. He has the body to where
I think he could become a pretty good defender if he wanted to be not
very good on offensive playmaking kind of shockingly bad at least hand, very looseyo
very It's like for a point like for a guy who's a point guard,
and like he doesn't really have a lot of functioning point guard skills. But
that's okay, you don't need him on this team. I think Seth Curry
is a breaking case of emergency type guy. They got him for a steal
of the deal. I also think the Mavericks would have tried and will continue
to try to trade Tim Hardaway Jr. Because he and Seth Curry's skills kind
of overlap. You want a guy willing to take the shots that Luca gets
you, but Seth Curry also has a history of kind of maddening injury issues.
So it's you know, I'm counting on forty five games of Seth Curry
Excellem's kind of the X factor for me to where if he makes a difference,
he gives kid another look. And so that's that's the guy I'm kind
of most interested in all of this is their room or runaway however you want
to fame it for Jayden Hardy to actually that's not even just crack the rotation,
but progress on this team. I guess if you were trying to identify
who's going to be the third ball handler off the bench, he would be
the best candidate. But you also have Luca and Kyrie, and it's like,
so, what kind of opportunity is going to be there for him to
do that. It's really not It's something that's sort of in the back of
everyone's head when you're really looking at the meat and potatoes of how Dallas will
function. But then the flip side is over an eighty two games year,
you have two superstars, one an older one who will need you know,
Kyrie just gets nickeled and dimed. I know that there's all these star resting
rules, but I don't know. I don't think you're gonna have to rest
Kyrie. I think you're gonna basically, he's gonna get hurt. Luca does
too, and so I think there'll be plenty of opportunities for these guys.
What my biggest beat for the Mavericks team building has been over the last two
is that they don't anticipate or haven't anticipated, the fact that Luca's going to
miss ten games because he plays, you know, he plays three yards in
a cloud of dust basketball where he just gets banged up, and that I
think there's there's multiple options built into this roster to where I don't think they
miss well, they'll miss a beat, but they're prepared to deal with injuries
and rest and guys out in a way that they haven't been at least last
year. In particular, you had mentioned that you're a little bit more intrigued
by Derek Lively. Now what has swayed you there and is like looking it
feels like there are three locks in the Big Man rotation. When you look
at Powell, Quiba and Grant Williams, what type of opportunity will be there
for him or is it going to be more Derek Jones Junior and Rishaun Holmes
in those minutes? Just what do you kind of see there? I think
they have to throw lively out there. Otherwise it's the waste of a draft
pick. I think you have to see what he gives you. He started
the year off on Duke's bench, and then by the end of the year
he was arguably one of the best ten defensive players in college basketball last year.
What intrigues me about him? And if you'll allow me a minute to
kind of ramble in minutes I need. I've been very interested in American bigs
since about midway through PHEBO, when it became clear that Jaren Jackson Junior was
never taught how to rebound, and you know, comparing it to the euro
counterparts, where these guys are just getting waxed because the European basketball players have
skill sets that American basketball players don't. And then and then to jump in
a weird direction. I've this picture of Lebron James. The EBYL Basketball Tournament
has stuck in my head where he was surrounded by seventeen year olds that were
bigger than he was, And I think to myself, where in the hell
or all of these bigs going Some of them, it's like some of them
it makes sense. You got Carl Town's, you got Eton. They're not
American citizens. They go and play for their other countries. There aren't.
But when it comes to American bigs and basketball, I think younger players get
really if you're not a heliocentric guy, you get pushed out. You are
told to go be the garbage man. You are told to rebound and pass
to the guy that sucks. So you know, you find I think that
there's a dearth of American big men because it's like the roles that we allow
these guys to play, they don't really want to play them. Enter Derek
Lively, who has joined this team and basically said, I want to box
out, rebound role to the basket and dunk. I can do more,
but that's how I'm gonna help this team win. And it was just so
shocking to hear that it's obviously pr speak. He's been told to say this
stuff. He knows that's where his money's going to be made. But I've
watched Willie Cauley, Stein, Javail McGhee, some really true horror show centers.
The guys that think they're super skilled and awesome and have more to show
to the game, DeAndre Jordan, Eddie Curry, just some real rough,
rough players the last you know, ten years of my Mavericks fandom. And
so to hear a guy basically like I want to do what Tyson Chandler did
is so delightful to me. And I think the only way you learn how
to play basketball is and this is a wild concept, is by playing basketball.
Wow, MBA teens so practice. So I think you got to throw
the guy out there and play him fifteen minutes a game even if he fouls
out because he has a real fouling problem. That's okay. Do you know
who he sort of reminds me of? And I was, I want to
make clear as incredibly low on this player coming into last year. And I'm
just talking about not necessarily with their like physical attributes necessarily, but I was
low on this player last year. He ended up being spectacular just how he
plays within himself or wants to play within this specific role I could see like
a Walker Kessler type of turn for him. There's definitely more like I think
explosion there, and I don't think the opportunity that Kessler eventually got in Utah
will be there in year one, but I can kind of see that level
of defense from him, like all his wayscan is enormous. One of the
things I did like about him in Summer League is that he didn't do the
big man things that left his teammates hanging out to dry. JaVale McGee is
one of the most frustrating basketball players I've ever seen in my entire life,
because he's so athletically gifted, but he commits to doing the wrong thing with
such like tenacity and if he just it's like, don't get out of position,
just put your big hands up in the air. Stand there, box
out, go get the rebound. And that's the sort of stuff that Lili
Lively was doing. Where it's during summer the Yeah, the Mavericks had scored
on Yeah, they made a lot of mistakes, but it was never,
Oh, this happened because he chased a block and ended up being four feet
out of the lane, so an offensive rebound happened. That makes sense.
Yeah, I get that. So it's like the minimization of mistakes I think
will benefit him under a guy like kid who is a bit intense. Could
he, though, get lost in the shuffle of just like having Rashaun Holmes
there? And I think some people still view Derek Jones Junior as a wing.
He's a big and it's like you have him, Yeah, he's a
six six big. Yeah. Could he get lost? Like could Lively get
lost in that shuffle just by virtue of being a rookie? Yes, But
if he does do that, they will send him down to their G League
affiliate where he will get minutes. And that played very well for Jaden Hardy.
And obviously they're two very different positions, but Hardy had kind of a
twenty he had if you break his season down to the twenty game stretches every
twenty games, he was doing something a little bit different and a little bit
better. And I mentioned earlier in the podcast, by game fifty, I
expect something from Lively and that's sort of where I am right now. I
would love for them to play him more, but the more I think about
it, the more I realize it's probably not realistic. Maybe if there's like
trades that they make mid season that would open up extra playing time. Who
knows, but we mentioned the defense already. Is there any just sort of
low hanging fruit this team is built to improve upon or can feasibly improve upon
when you're looking at just maybe lineups with better rebounding aside from Luca being your
best rebound or just foiling less, anything like that that could help them,
because I think you look at the town, it's like, no, they're
not gonna what were they sixth in twenty one twenty two and points slot for
possession or whatever, even if they hustle their asses off. I would be
shocked if they could replicate something like that. There's duringly low hanging fruit that
you think that they can clean up that would make a big difference. Honestly,
No. I think one thing that will help though, and I don't
see this as a realistic thing, but it's a guy can dream. Jason
Kidd has to realize when lineups don't work. He stuck to the McGhee of
it all for ten games and they lost more games than they should have to
start the season, and no small part because of his commitment to McGhee.
I get that they have a lot of new options, but basketball, it's
like Greg Popovich talked about this during his Hall of Fame speech. He's like,
there's nothing new under the sun here. You know, don't need you
know, two hundred minutes to figure out that the lineup that you know,
we're Luca nanchen is your tallest player is not great for defense like that sort
of stuff. So we'll see. This is it's such a lazy question,
but I think it matters the manas were in this weird spot where they haven't
pushed in all their chips, Like there are moves on the trade market they
could make, but you've also made some pretty high stakes moves. Even just
looking at the Kyrie Irving acquisition, I would say Grant Williams as well.
Is this a team that you know, we're fifteen or twenty games into the
season, we could see some existential fireworks where it's, oh, Jason Kidd
is on the hot seat if they don't start off well or are they more
likely to then just sort of reseek out reinforcements on the trade market. Then
looking at the you know, the coaching aspect, that should be the case,
and if this were any other NBA team. Two things work against this.
The first is that Mark Cuban made the higher Mark Cuban made the higher
at Rick Carlisle's behest. I think Rick sort of thought it was a joke.
I don't know that for certain, but it's like you rarely let the
guy you're firing pick the coach you're hiring next. Mark Human is a stubborn
man. That is thing number one. So even though Jason Kidd has every
single team he's coached, he's only has you know, two other teams,
they don't perform well the longer he's there. That's just the historical fact to
this point. The other problem challenge with moving on from Jason Kidd is I
think he has Kyrie Irving's buy in and that can't be under sold as to
the importance there. It's it's Kyrie Irving and mercurial as he is. He
has talked about how Jason Kidd was one of his favorite players growing up and
that that matters, and keeping Kyrie locked in, you can't really put a
price on that. While you can't put a price on that based off of
some of the things he's done for their teams. So it's just that that's
the sort of where I fall. I think that they have a pretty good
likelihood of starting out the season rough because they're an overseas trip in preseason and
that's just kind of an historical thing. There's been a few outlier teams,
but it's difficult to get and then then they have a youngish team. But
I think they just sort of stick with it. They have one more trade
chip that they could really push in if they wanted to, in their twenty
twenty seven draft pick. I don't think that moves the needle on anything.
I think them and the Hawks are engaged into like a low stake staring contest
over whether the Hawks want to give up Clint Capella, and I think that
would mean like taking back like Tim Hardaway, but I don't think they want
to do it. And the Mavericks certainly aren't going to give up a first
round pick to give up, you know, potentially like Overwripe Banana and Clint
Capella. There's always some things there. I will say the Nico Harrison has
proven and they've hired some salary cap guys from the Knicks. The front office
has been reshaped into a place where Cuban still has a voice, but he
is not the voice, and I think that's helped them a lot this last
year. We are about to enter the cookie cutter portion of the podcast.
Are you are you ready sure? Are there any strength or concerns about this
team that have flown that are flying under the radar that we haven't discussed yet?
Strengths, No, the concerns are are are probably the youth. Where
Matt Moore of Action Network said to me yesterdays, like, are you really
this in on a team that might need to rely on rookies? And I'm
like, yeah, but it's better than if they had made the playoffs and
not had either of these guys like then they would have would have been real
bleak. Who would have been trying to get excited about Grant Williams, Lucananjich
and Kyrie Irving And that's it. So it's it's the youth of it all.
I've talked about it some, but I'm pretty I'm more excited about it
than others. I think, what is so as of right now, what
would you think at full strength of ten man rotation ends up looking like I
think there are I mean I jotted down in the outline. I think there's
probably like eight locks. It's feels like with two spots sort of up for
grabs. There's Luca Kyrie, THHJ. Grant, Williams, Dwight Powell,
Josh Green, and Kleiba and Jaden Hardy would be my locks. I don't
know if you agree with those eight. I don't have Jaden Hardy as a
lock, So I have Luca Kyrie, Tim Hardaway, Grant Williams, Dwight
Powell, MAXI Kleiba uh, and then I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna put o
Max in there. I'm not I really am a secret deep sleeper. Is
this guy that they signed to a two way named Mike Miles JR TCU.
He's another They just said he's a kid guy again, like a hard like
a guy willing to play his absolute ass off. That's That's just what the
Mavericks have right now. This is to some extent matchup dependent. But what
do you think should be their most preferred closing five unit? Is it just
the starting five or could you see some tinkering there? No, I think
you if you start with Powell or if you start with Holmes, I think
you have to end with Maxi Cleba. Cleban drives me crazy because he's so
hit or miss, but if he's if he's healthy, then I I and
you know he tore his hamstring last year and wasn't really right after that.
If he can be healthy, he's sort of the stretch five that that the
team needs. And I think you can play him and Grant Williams together with
Kyrie and Luca and that's pretty smallish. But if you're to play uh,
you know, you have your options there that as the fifth guy anywhere from
Tim Hardaway, Josh Green to too even O Max or Dante Exum like,
I think they have real optionality there. But I would say Luca, Kyrie,
Grant Williams and Uh, Maxi Clebo would be my like consistent lock for
for four of the five guys. Is there a quirky weirdo on conventional lineup
you would like to see him try this season? Even to say, I'm
not sure because the whole lineup is weird where it's think when your point guard
six five and you're shooting guards six two and your your your power forward is
six five, Like, there's just weirdness going on here. The whole thing
is weird. I just I just don't know. I'm gonna be curious to
see if Derek Jones actually gets any run. He's pretty interesting out of Pick
and Roll. There's there's just there's some odd options, but nothing really is
jumping out at me at the moment. I think I'd like to see them
play what would be their version of super Big but not Too Big, where
it's Luca Graham Williams who's not big. I want to make that clear.
MAXI Kleiba and now I'm all in on o Max after you just said him
and then like, let's throw Dante x him in there is like another bigger
guard or something, just to see what that looks like. But you're right,
I guess the whole roster is kind of weird, and any line up
you put the even that lineup, I'm like, that kind of makes sense
in some ways. It's not really weird though, but that might just be
relative to the state of the roster right now. Yeah, yeah, no,
it's it's it's a it's an odd situation. So their win total is
currently set as we record this, it is September twenty eight at forty four
and a half. Would you lean over or under on that, And how
do you you know which teams are you sure are better than them? In
the Western Conference? Right now, I'd probably go under, just because I'm
still i still got kind of the nasty taste of a thirty eight win season
in my mouth. But when I look at the Western Conference, you go,
I'm very confident that Denver is better than them. I'm confident about Phoenix,
Golden State, as much as it pains me, the Lakers, the
thunder those are those are the main teams I am not. Memphis can kiss
my ass. The Mavericks play them three times in the first twenty five games,
and that's like when Jaws out, and I just think Dallas is going
to annihilate them. The Kings are probably better too. I think I skipped
them by accident. I don't believe in the Pelicans. I don't believe in
the Timberwolves. Yeah, there's certain teams where I'm just like total disdain for.
But we'll see. It's it's a long season. I think you have
more. I know it's right now it's tough to lose, but I think
you have more teams that I'm I would guarantee are better than the Mavericks than
I would, because I'm I'm like kind of only in on in the Western
Conference, Phoenix in Denver. I'm just like, those are the top of
the West. And then you could almost tell me any order that doesn't involve
the Rockets of the Spurs shooting into the playoffs, and I'd probably buy it.
The Warriors are just such a pain matchup for Dallas because the ideal perfect
center to play with, Luca John Chich is on their roster. It's and
he you know, he's he's he's the guy who's gonna save American American basketball
next year. And Kevon Looney he's gonna be our guy in the in the
United States playoffs. I this is this my my bizarre take, but it's
they just they're not a good matchup for the Mavericks. Mavericks can run them
off the floor sometimes because that's just how basketball goes. But that's just where
my head is. I mean the Clippers, I just I have also PTSD
from the only two the only two series that quite that the Clippers have ever
been any good at where the dang series where they beat the Mavericks both times.
Yeah, and that was one of those series was that the bubble,
what was the teams or Chris Stops was actually playing really well? Yes,
and it was. I got this poster up on my board where it's like
the triple the double overtime game where Luca had like forty five, sixteen and
seventeen and then they lost the series because of course they did. Is there
anything anyone else we haven't discussed that you think we need to cover before we
get out of here. You have any strong thoughts on Luca Dotchich's offseason conditioning.
I'm pleased with his conditioning. He looked good in the World Cup and
for the first half the World Cup he managed to basically ignore the challenging referees
and be a good sport and then he got thrown out during the quarterfinals.
And I don't Luca is going to come in this year and the narrative around
him fairly so let me point out, is going to be one hundred percent
villain oriented. People are fucking sick of him. So the complaining is as
a I don't want to say impartial observer, I guess, but like from
someone who's just ten thousand foot view and covers the entire league, it is
very annoying to watch him complain over and over again. No, it's awful,
Kirk. This was fun as always. I appreciate the time are you're
just able to tell our listeners where they can find you and all the great
work that you do. If you would like to find us. For the
website, I run MAVs Moneyball dot com. If you're interested in any podcast
or video, there's a YouTube channel, pod Maverick, and then the podcast
is this audio version only pod Maverick on anywhere you can get your stuff.
I run my cost and I will basically do a recap after every game and
then I run like a late night lunatics lounge of sorts depending on whether the
Mavericks win or lose. That's just like me. And you're talking here on
this app where I am crazy enough to where I send out that link that
you can have. I put it out there on social media and people just
come and join and we talk about ball till you know, one, two,
three in the morning. And all those things I've seen some I don't
know that I've seen them live. I've seen some of those things are bear
So you guys do a great job. You engagement on that stuff. The
links to all those things will be in our podcast and YouTube description for those
listening. As always, Kirk, I really do appreciate the time, and
as I'm sure you know by now, i'll be spamming your dms again in
the future. Of course, thanks for having me