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Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willishure host and we have

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a new start time for those of
you who are watching this live, it's

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going to be this time from here
on out. The six o'clock start time

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has always been difficult for me because
of what I do for a real job.

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For one thing, I've a lot
of times I run late or run

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right up to the deadline. Another
thing is a lot of my guests are

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on the West Coast, which means
that they would have had to start at

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three pm in the afternoon, and
a lot of people have actually turned down

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being on my show because it's too
early for them because they have a job

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and things like that. The only
place it hurts at all is when I

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talked with someone in Europe. It
was a little bit easier in that case.

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So I am switching till seven o'clock. So it's going to be on

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KGr A Radio from seven to eight
every week. I may go longer on

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the live with some of the guests, and this day is no exception.

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With my good friend Lie Spiegel,
you may know of him from the Huffington

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Post. He was writing there for
years, but he's also known all the

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way back into the nineteen seventies.
He brought UFOs to the un And we're

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going to be talking tonight about this
great album that he has that he shared

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with me, and this was in
interviews that he did with Key People back

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in nineteen seventy five. He was
released in nineteen seventy six. I believe

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he may correct me on some of
that. We have a couple of clips

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we're going to play from at this
Week's a blog by Charles Lear is a

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UFO and Arguments in British Columbia,
Canada. Charles Lear has been writing blogs

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consistently for us for several years.
I really appreciate his great work. He

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also has a book out. I
encourage anyone that would like to get his

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book, and it is called The
Flying Saucer Investigators. He was on here

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as a guest and we were talking
about that. But he does great work.

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It's a great book. I'm getting
a lot of feedback about his book.

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A lot of people really love it. And without further ado, I'd

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like to bring in my friend Lee. Welcome Lee. Well, thank you

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Martin for inviting me on. I
was curious, when are you going to

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tell the audience about your day job
working in the intelligence community for the government.

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Eventually, eventually I will, you
know, along with Richard Doughty and

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those other people I work with.
Yes, we need to know what you

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know. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, No, I don't think there'll

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be any surprises like that coming out
of me. But you know, you

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haven't. Oh, you just might
have started something a rumor. Now it's

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you know, UFO Twitter, I
can't wait to have We've opened the Martin

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Willis Pandora's box. That's right,
that's right. So you've had a couple

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of changes lately and you're on UNIX. How do you say that? Is

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that? Did I pronounce that correctly? It's it's actually UNEXX. Yeah,

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just the letters unex, which really
kind of stands for unexplained and so it

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kind of encompasses all things paranormal.
So I not only am I doing my

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own show there now on Thursday nights, but I'm also the managing editor for

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the unex magazine that is a quarterly
issue, and I've had some really interesting

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stories so far. I've what I've
brought to the magazine was, instead of

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just writing a story like I used
to do with The Lington Post, I'm

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offering for the monthly what's not a
monthly, it's a quarterly issue. Each

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issue will have basically the interview of
the issue, and I'm choosing really interesting

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who I think are newsmakers in the
field of paranormal UFOs and and in fact,

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you are familiar with the gentleman who
is my interview subject in the current

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issue that just came out. The
overall theme of the magazine is time travel,

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and my interview is with Montana tech
archaeologist anthropologist doctor Michael Masters. Yes,

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great guy. He's going to be
coming up on the show and the

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next I think the next month or
so at some point. Yeah, he's

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he's very funny, he's very interesting, and what a theory. He has

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a really great theory. I mean
as good, if you ask me,

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as good as good as any other
theory that's out there. He has.

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He's opened my e eyes. You
know. I've actually gone through changes or

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my attitude about UFOs over the last
fifty years that I've been involved with reading

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and researching and offering information to the
public about UFOs. And I remember when

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I first started out, my attitude
was, Oh, they must be from

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Alpha Centauri. They must be from
the playades or why not Zeta Ridiculive.

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And my attitude was this technology must
mean they have to be coming from other

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planets. Now I've sort of modified
that. I think that some UFOs,

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like our old friend nuclear physicists Stan
Friedman you used to say and says on

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the album that we're talking about tonight. He starts it up by saying,

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some UFOs are definitely, you know, intelligently controlled extraterrestrial vehicles. And I

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believe that. I don't think all
unexplained UFOs are that, because jeez,

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as we now know, is there
anybody out there who hasn't yet seen the

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new images from the James Webb Space
Telescope. They're just beautiful. Wow.

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I mean this to me. If
anyone ever says to me, hey,

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what do you think is proof that
we're not out, that we're not alone?

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That's proof. Look at the images
and what it's showing, and it

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will make all of us seem so
insignificant. I was going to say insignificant,

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but maybe that's not the appropriate word
to use, because I don't want

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us to think that we're insignificant.
But oh my god, the images are

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now showing and the scientists are saying, without denying it, yeah, we're

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definitely not alone because look at who
our neighbors are. They're everywhere everywhere we

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look now and now we can see
right there, we're looking at a very

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very tiny, tiny grain of sand
image of outer space that shows thousands of

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galaxies. And people have to understand
if they don't know what a galaxy is.

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We live on a planet. Our
planet is one of several that is

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in orbit around what we call the
Sun. But the Sun is a star.

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We know that galaxies are made up
of billions and billions of stars,

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and now astronomy is telling us those
billions and billions of stars in each galaxy

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contain they have planets orbiting them,
and so the numbers are so it's not

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scattered. It's just mind boggling.
We almost can't seeve of what we're talking

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about here that we I don't think
anybody that logically thinks about this will say,

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yeah, we're the only ones out
here. Now, we couldn't possibly

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been what a creator of the entire
universe have only chosen our little planet among

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other planets are going around one star
among the billions and trillions of stars and

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galaxies why would the creator have chosen
only our little planet on which to put

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intelligent life? Right? Can't agree, You can't agree. I always love

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this Arthur C. Clark Um saying, a possibilities to exist, either we're

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alone in the universe or we're not, both are equally terrifying. Yeah,

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it's like, wow, we have
to we have to grow up to the

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possibility that we're not alone. And
back in nineteen sixty eight, at the

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at the Air Force Academy in Colorado
Springs, in a textbook, a science

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textbook that was only seen by Air
Force cadets, you know, our future

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military leaders. And the Science Physics
textbook, which was called Introductory Space Science

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Chapter thirty three was titled Unidentified Flying
Objects. And in this chapter in nineteen

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sixty eight, the Air Force described
to their cadets very strong cases of where

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humans, humankind, mankind has been
reporting and interacting with unidentified objects going back

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almost fifty thousand years. And they
stay outlined and spelled us out to the

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cadets. Well, if that's true, if humans have been seeing these things

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in the skies and reporting these things, and people are now seeing and reporting

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the same things, what are we
talking about? Oh, it's it's it's

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no longer valid to say, oh, it must be the angels of the

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Lord, or it must be the
gods. No, because we don't think

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like that anymore. We think we
think in terms of what we now know

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is part of our own reality.
Yeah, that's a really good point,

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because you know, I mean there's
uh, you know, the talk of

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fairies and the talk of you know, all the way along lepre cons maybe

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even that's you know, who knows. Yeah, but it kind of fits

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the times whatever, Yes, societal
times are. Um. So, I

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you know, here's a question.
I I don't believe in all these years

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that we've talked and known each other, I don't believe I've ever asked you

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this question. Oh maybe I have. But all right, are you an

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American? No? Um? All
right? What got you interested? I

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know you started you were in the
seventies. You're interest in this topic and

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doing amazing work. We'll talk about
that in a few minutes. But what

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got your interest to very begin with? How old were you when you first

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were fascinated with this topic. Well, I'm going to say that I first

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began to hear about it in the
news around around nineteen seventy seventy one,

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when a book, actually, no, maybe a little earlier, the book

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called The Interrupted Journey by John Fuller, in which he described the amazing story

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of Betty and Barney Hill of New
Hampshire. And I grew up in New

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Hampshire, and in fact I went
to college just a few miles south of

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where their close encounter, abduction,
whatever the incident was, happened. And

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when the story broke, it broke
first in New Hampshire and became a big

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story before it went national, because
it was really the first story of anyone

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in America, I believe, where
somebody actually claimed to have been abducted or

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kidnapped and taken aboard either a ship
or taken somewhere where they were they were

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put under examination by some kind of
beings. And there's that's probably an updated

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version of the book from the original. And I became very very good friends

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with Betty Hill. This was after
Barney had passed away, and she and

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I became friends in nineteen seventy five
when I was working on my documentary record

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that we'll talk about later, and
just to meet her and to get to

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know her and spend time with her
and you, and I are also friends

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with a woman who's probably the most
knowledgeable expert in the whole Betty and Barney's

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story would be Kathleen Martin. Kathleen
who is an expert in her own right.

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In people who are now who call, they're called experiencers, people who

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have had the close encounter of the
third kind experience. But what people don't

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know unless you tell them is Kathy
Martin was the niece of Betty Embarney Hill.

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And so when Betty Embarney returned home
having lost two hours of time somewhere

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along the journey from Canada to Portsmith, New Hampshire, the first person that

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Betty called when she got back to
their home. She got on the phone

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and called her sister, And on
the other end of the line where her

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sister was listening to this encounter story, was a young Kathy Martin who was

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hearing her mother's side of the story. So Kathy was like the second person

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to hear about this, and it's
an amazing story. And I was living

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in conquered New Hampshire at the time, and so Kathy and I didn't know

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each other until later on in you
know, in our lives, when we

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met and became friends, the whole, the whole Benny and Barney Heels story.

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So when the story broke, it
really got my attention. Yes,

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yeah, because I was still,
you know, in nineteen seventy, I

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was figuring out what I wanted to
do with my life, and the only

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thing I was interested in doing at
that point was leaving New Hampshire, stuffing

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a suitcase, grabbing my guitar,
that's right, getting on a Trailways bus

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in Conquer New Hampshire and going to
New York City and trying to live the

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life of a folk singer in Manhattan
and to try and get a record deal.

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Because and by the way, I
know you're you're humble about this,

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but Lee has some amazing He has
an amazing voice, singing voice, and

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beautiful, beautiful music. Really,
I know it's not out there to share,

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but you did share it with me, and I just want to say

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I'm very very impressed. Well and
my friend as well. Well. I

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I thank you. You know,
when you're when you're back in the seventies

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or even the late sixties, when
you when you were a folk singer making

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the rounds of Greenwich Village in New
York and you wanted to make a name

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for yourself and get a recording contract, what you had to do was to

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go to Greenwich Village and go to
different clubs and the place that everyone always

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had to go to. And I
went my first week in New York.

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There's a place called the Bitter End, very famous club where all of the

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folk singers, going back to the
Peter Paul Mary's, the Golden Lightfoots,

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the Bob Dylan's. Yeah, all
these people would always go to the Bitter

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End. And you go there on
the mic, the open mic night,

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and I went there to do and
you could invite anybody you wanted, if

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you knew anybody in New York who
might be interested in seeing you. And

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I was so nervous knowing that,
just the fact that I walked into the

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Bitter End with my guitar, thinking
what the hell am I doing here?

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Maybe I should just go back to
New Hampshire, give up the dream.

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But no, I did like a
four or five song set that they would

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let you then to be like a
smattering of applause. Yeah, and you

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know, and you hope that maybe
nobody ever heard you. All you ever

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hoped for in a moment like that
is are the strings in tune? That's

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all you really hope for when that
happens. All those were the days,

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and but that landed you in New
York, where you've sayed all these years.

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Yeah. Yeah, And at one
point in nineteen seventy three, I

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was working a day job while still
trying to get something happening with my music.

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I was working at the biggest music
store, a retail store in the

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country called sam Ash Music, and
I was a salesperson and I sold musical

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instruments. One day, Jackson Brown
walked in and I sold him two guitars,

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and it was great to do that, and he was so happy with

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the sale and what a great salesman
I was with these guitars. He invited

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me to come to see him do
a show at Carnegie Hall that night,

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and it was like an amazing thing. My name was at the stage door

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at Carnegie Hall. They brought me
up to his dressing room and there he

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was tuning his guitar and sitting in
the dressing room with Linda Ronstadt. Oh

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my goodness. I don't remember much
after that moment, missing time, yeah,

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I know, but it was I
was living for things like that.

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But in nineteen seventy three, while
I was doing this as a as a

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salesperson, there something happened. Within
the same week in October of nineteen seventy

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three. Two UFO cases were so
big and so important that they're still unexplained,

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and they actually were paid attention seriously
by the media. The case of

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the two fishermen, Charlie Hickson and
Calvin Parker, fishing on a pier off

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the Pascagoula, Mississippi River in Mississippi, and something happened to them where they

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claimed that they were taken on board
some craft and they were examined. And

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what was amazing about that case We've
learned in years subsequent there were witnesses on

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the ground who kind of saw this
thing going on, and the media got

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00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:52,000
hold of it and it stuck.
Doctor J. Allen Heineck, the astronomer,

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00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,759
used to be the scientific consultant to
the United States Air Force Project Bluebook.

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He was really convinced that there was
something that case. And I was

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00:19:02,519 --> 00:19:07,240
at Samash Music one day selling things, and in the back of the store

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there was a radio on on the
local news channel, and I happened to

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hear in the news about these two
fishermen. I thought, well, that

217
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,240
was amazing, and I started paying
more attention. And in the same week

218
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:27,160
over Ohio, a four man Army
helicopter crew almost collided with a UFO that

219
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:32,720
they thought it was going to kill
them. Larry Coin, Larry Coine,

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00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,480
Major, Larry Coin at the time, We're going to play a clip on

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00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,799
so I think this is a good
segue, okay, and by continue on

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00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,400
but into what made you decide to
do your your album? Well, that

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00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:53,200
that's the thing. I There were
so many people that we're talking about UFOs,

224
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:59,359
and I started reading books and the
first one of the first books I

225
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,799
got was called Beyond Earth Man's Contact
with the UFOs, and it was written

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00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:11,160
by husband and wife Ralph and Judy
Blum, and I knew at the time

227
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,920
from reading the book they had done
a lot of interviews with astronauts, military

228
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:21,480
people and people in politics, law
enforcement, scientists, and they were working

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00:20:21,559 --> 00:20:26,559
on what was then an NBC News
white paper report, a news report about

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UFOs. So I knew that he
was connected with NBC in some way,

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and I just loved their book and
I wanted I wanted to meet him because

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I thought, boy, I would
like to hear the voices of the people

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that I'm reading about in his book, and if there's a way that I

234
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,119
could do something like that, that
would be amazing. But I didn't have

235
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the right connections at the time to
make a pitch anywhere to any record company.

236
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And I knew at the time in
the mid nineteen seventies CBS Columbia House

237
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:11,000
Records, which was a subsidiary of
CBS Incorporated. They had they were doing

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nightly infomercials, some of the first
infomercials on TV in prime time, and

239
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:26,640
they were selling to viewing audiences recordings
vinyl recordings of the famous hits of Mitch

240
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:33,039
Miller in The Gang, Montevani and
the Strings, and if you order now

241
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,880
let us know if you want the
vinyl record or if you want instead eight

242
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,680
track tape. We'll send you a
chever when you want. So I thought,

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00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,079
well, this is great. No
one's ever sold a record about UFOs,

244
00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:52,359
and so I wanted to meet Ralph
Blum and I figured out a way

245
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:59,839
of how to do it through NBC, and I was able to meet some

246
00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:04,359
at NBC who who thought it would
be a good idea. If if I

247
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,960
just was able to. They gave
me his mail. They knew he was

248
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,200
out of town and they liked the
idea. And there's Ralph and Judy's book

249
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,480
that you just showed there. And
they said, we've been trying to get

250
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,759
a hold of Ralph to give him
his mail because he's been gone a while

251
00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:22,519
doing some work. Why don't we
wrap it up for you and you can

252
00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:25,720
bring it to him. And I
said, it's a great idea. Thanks,

253
00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:29,519
I'd love to do it. And
so that day, same day,

254
00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:33,880
I took a cab up to their
apartment in New York City and rang the

255
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,640
bell and there was no answer,
so I couldn't actually just give him the

256
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:44,680
mail. So I got the super
of his building and said, I'm delivering

257
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,480
some mail for mister Blom. Kind
of give it to you to give to

258
00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:49,759
him. He said sure, So
I wrote a little note to give with

259
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:55,640
the mail. Dear mister Blom,
I'm a big fan of your book.

260
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,519
I've got an idea of a way
to help promote your book with another idea

261
00:22:59,559 --> 00:23:03,279
that I'm thinking of, I would
love to meet you. Here's my telephone

262
00:23:03,319 --> 00:23:07,599
number. Lei Spiegel and I gave
all that stuff to his super and a

263
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:12,960
few days later my phone rang and
I said hello, and I heard this

264
00:23:14,039 --> 00:23:15,920
voice and said, are you Lei
Spiegel? I said, yes, I

265
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,119
am. He said, this is
Ralph Blum. Who the hell are you?

266
00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:23,799
And how the hell did you get
my mail? I'm thinking, Am

267
00:23:23,839 --> 00:23:29,160
I in trouble here? Did I
did? I not make the right decision?

268
00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:36,480
My father loved what I did.
What I did. Ralph said what

269
00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:40,680
do you want? And I told
him my idea and he said, well,

270
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,359
okay, let's meet. And from
that point on we became friends,

271
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and he had connections. Their book
that you just showed was published by Bantam

272
00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:56,839
Books, and so he knew all
the people in publishing and production and marketing

273
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,880
at Bantam, and he had friends, and I had some friends in the

274
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,240
recording industry. So we worked it
out to do a pitch to the people

275
00:24:04,279 --> 00:24:11,200
at CBS of the idea of letting
me, with Ralph's help, contact all

276
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,400
these people that were in his book. He gave me all their contact information

277
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:19,599
so that I could start calling them
and ask them if they would be interested

278
00:24:19,599 --> 00:24:25,119
in having me come to visit them
wherever they were in the country and interview

279
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:30,359
them for a Vinyl documentary. Recording
that I was going to produce for CBS,

280
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:37,480
and people said sure, and we
worked out the deal so that if

281
00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:41,319
they bought the record album from the
TV commercial, we ended up having for

282
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,680
it. If you didn't like the
album or the eight track tape, well

283
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,960
okay, you could send the album
back to us, but keep the book.

284
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:56,319
Keep the Ralph Blum book as our
gift. Don't. You don't see

285
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,839
much of that kind of stuff anymore. No, but it was first time.

286
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,799
It kind of became an instant classic
in uphology that it was the first

287
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:11,839
time that a major recording company like
CBS offered a UFO product to the public.

288
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:18,000
It was the first time that a
UFO documentary was presented on TV in

289
00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:23,599
a two minute infomercial. And it
was one of the first UFO products that

290
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:30,920
doctor j. Allen Heineck chose that
was offered for sale in the renowned Edmund's

291
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:37,039
Scientific catalog at the time. Edmund
Scientific approached doctor Heineck and asked him if

292
00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:41,519
he would choose some products related to
UFOs because they wanted to devote an entire

293
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:48,079
section and page in their Science catalog, and so he chose a variety of

294
00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:52,279
things like best books, He liked
best slide shows, and mine was the

295
00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:56,640
only record that was offered, and
it was like, wow, it just

296
00:25:56,759 --> 00:26:03,799
I couldn't believe my luck of getting
that far so quickly. And so okay,

297
00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:07,359
I came to New York with a
guitar looking for a record contract,

298
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,559
and I finally got a record contract
that had nothing to do with folk singing.

299
00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:17,920
It was about chasing extraterrestrials. Go
figure, Well, it's great,

300
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,400
and I'd like to I'd like to
play a couple of clips. I'll shot

301
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,279
out. This is a from side
one, okay, and so just for

302
00:26:25,319 --> 00:26:30,640
the listener and the people watching live, it's just it's six and a half

303
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,720
minutes. The other one is about
four minutes, but this is six and

304
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,720
a half minutes. I'll play it
right now here it goes. October eighteen,

305
00:26:37,839 --> 00:26:42,680
nineteen seventy three, a terrifying encounter
takes place between a four man crew

306
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:48,079
aboard an Army helicopter and a UFO
while the crew is en route to Cleveland,

307
00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:52,880
Ohio, from Columbus. This mid
air drama is witnessed by several ground

308
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,119
observers and it is considered to be
one of the most impressive sightings in history.

309
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,559
The commander of the helicopter, Major
Larry Coin, and his crew thought

310
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,680
at first that the light on the
horizon was a radio tower beacon. The

311
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:12,160
crew chief on the helicopter observed a
light, a red light on the east

312
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:18,160
horizon. He then informed me that
the light was closing on the helicopter,

313
00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:22,839
that it was coming at us on
a collision course. And I looked to

314
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,960
the rights and I observed that the
object became bigger and the lights became brighter,

315
00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:30,400
and I began to descend the helicopter
towards the ground to get out of

316
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:36,160
the collision course path, and this
object continued to come directly at the aircraft.

317
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,079
It was like a missile locked onto
the helicopter. It looked like we

318
00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:44,039
were going to collide with it,
and we braced the impact. Then I

319
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,559
heard the crewman in the back,
so they look up and I did,

320
00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:51,160
and I observed this craft stopped directly
in front of us. It was hovering

321
00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:55,799
right over the helicopter. We assumed
it was a high performance fighter, but

322
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,839
when it stopped directly in front of
us, all four of us realized was

323
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:03,240
no high perform at aircraft. This
craft from the angle we saw it was

324
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:10,000
cigar chicked. These four men are
trained military personnel with thousands of hours of

325
00:28:10,079 --> 00:28:15,400
flying time behind them. What occurred
next might seem like science fiction, but

326
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:19,000
it happened. We were seventeen hundred
feet at this time. I was worried

327
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,079
we were going to hit the ground, and I looked at my altimeter and

328
00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:27,160
the R helicopter was three thousand,
five hundred seats climbing one thousand feet a

329
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:32,640
minute with no changes in the control. We went from seventeen hundred feet to

330
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,720
three thousand, five hundred feats in
a matter of seconds and never knew it.

331
00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:40,440
And there was a bumper like turbulence, at which time we had control

332
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,880
of the aircraft again. Then we
continued on to Cleveland to encounter a UFOLD.

333
00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:47,759
When it does approach the aircraft,
you have no idea what it is,

334
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,359
so I think if it wanted a
collide with us, it could,

335
00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:52,759
but you can't get away from it. You don't have that much time to

336
00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:57,799
respond. Some UFOs are really flying
saucers, in other words, are really

337
00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:06,480
somebody else's spacecraft. Intelligently controlled extraterrestrial
vehicles. Stanton Friedman, nuclear physicist who

338
00:29:06,519 --> 00:29:10,839
says we must keep open minds regarding
the reality of UFOs coming from other planets,

339
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,640
they'd probably come from a variety of
sources for a variety of purposes.

340
00:29:14,839 --> 00:29:18,079
Certainly, there's an intelligence behind the
maneuverability, and one of the places where

341
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,240
even people who want to believe in
UFO has come a cropper, as they

342
00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:26,000
don't understand the maneuverability. That's not
mystery, it's technology. When somebody says

343
00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:30,079
that that bit of UFO behavior is
impossible, what they mean is I don't

344
00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:33,160
know how to do that, and
if I don't know how to do it,

345
00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:36,880
it must be impossible. Well,
that kind of approach is obviously ridiculous.

346
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,559
I mean, it's not scientific.
In our own space program, many

347
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:47,400
UFOs have been reported by the astronauts. The first sighting took place in June

348
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,640
of nineteen sixty five on the Gemini
four mission. Astronaut Jim mcdivott caught side

349
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,920
of a strange looking object out in
space. At the time that I saw

350
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,960
it, I said, there was
something half in front of me that out

351
00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:03,720
inside the spacecraft that I couldn't identify, and I never have been able to

352
00:30:03,759 --> 00:30:07,319
identify, and I don't think anybody
ever will. We were in drifting flight

353
00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:11,519
and my partner, Ed White,
was asleep. Spacecraft was drifting around,

354
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,079
and as it was rotating around,
I noticed something out in front that was

355
00:30:15,119 --> 00:30:18,960
a white cylindical shape with a white
pole sticking out of one corner of it.

356
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:22,839
It had about the same dimensional relationship
as a beer can with a smooth

357
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:26,359
pencil sticking out one corner of it. I couldn't tell how close it was,

358
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,599
and I couldn't tell what the size
was. I thought I might run

359
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,920
into it, so I turned on
the flight control system and in the meantime,

360
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,920
I grabbed two cameras which were floating
into spacecraft, and I grabbed one

361
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,200
and took a picture, and I
let go of it, and I grabbed

362
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,640
the other one took a picture.
As the sun shone on the window,

363
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,440
I could no longer see out,
and the thing just disappeared. I never

364
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,759
did find out what it was,
and nobody else ever did either. They

365
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,960
checked nor AD records to see what
they had up on radar, and there

366
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,480
wasn't anything within a very close range
of us. I've seen the photos that

367
00:30:56,519 --> 00:31:00,720
were released, I've seen them published
in magazines and newspapers. I went back

368
00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:03,039
and went through each frame of all
of the pictures that we took after the

369
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:07,240
flight, and there wasn't anything in
there like what I had seen. General

370
00:31:07,359 --> 00:31:14,680
mcdibbott has made it absolutely clear that
NASA never did show him any pictures of

371
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,839
the object which he photographed her.
Another astronaut, Colonel Gordon Cooper, originally

372
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,720
was assigned to a jet fighter group
in Germany during the early nineteen fifties.

373
00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:30,720
He recounts the day a group of
circular objects passed over the airbase, a

374
00:31:30,839 --> 00:31:36,480
weatherman spotted some strange objects flying apparently
fairly high out here some large binoculars while

375
00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:40,799
tracking a weather blown. Before long, the entire fighter group was out peering

376
00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:45,160
through binoculars at these groups of objects
coming over, and all in very strange

377
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:51,279
patterns. Was in when fighter formations, but unlike fighters, they would almost

378
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:56,119
stop in their forward velocity in chains
nine degrees sometimes in their flight path.

379
00:31:56,839 --> 00:32:00,000
We never could get close enough really
to pin them down, but they were

380
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,920
round and shape and very metallic lucking. Personally, I believe in UFOs,

381
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:09,079
and my personal opinion is that I
think that they are very likely travelers from

382
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,799
some other planet, if not in
our galaxy and a neighboring galaxy, Vistors

383
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,920
from some planet that is hundreds of
thousand years more developed than we are.

384
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,440
I think we can navigate equally as
well as they do, but we certainly

385
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:29,799
don't have the sophisticated propulsion systems that
they apparently do. Colonel Cooper also recalls

386
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,759
an incident that took place at the
Edwards Air Force Base Flight Test Center in

387
00:32:32,839 --> 00:32:40,200
California, and to this day the
photographic evidence is unavailable, the case of

388
00:32:40,319 --> 00:32:45,480
one that landed out on the dry
lake bed right out from a number of

389
00:32:45,559 --> 00:32:49,079
camera crews we had who found it, and the film was there and sent

390
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,000
forward to a safe keeping somewhere in
Washington, never to be seen again.

391
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,759
We'll play a clip Lee from the
other side, and a little bit.

392
00:33:15,079 --> 00:33:19,559
So this is just a small clip. It's I think it's twenty some odd

393
00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:22,839
minutes long. And this is just
that was a six minute clip from one

394
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,960
side, twenty minutes twenty some odd
minutes on each side, I believe rightly.

395
00:33:28,799 --> 00:33:32,440
Yeah, And you know, Martin, really, for all these years,

396
00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:38,160
forty four forty five years later,
every time I hear any of these

397
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:45,240
clips or any of these voices,
and it reminds me how fortunate I was

398
00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:51,200
and how lucky I was to get
to meet these people and to talk to

399
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:59,720
them and to have them say things
about what they encountered that people are still

400
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:07,799
claiming to report today. It's like
nothing has changed, that's the most important

401
00:34:07,799 --> 00:34:09,480
thing. It's like, if I
just decided to get involved in the UFOs

402
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:16,000
today in twenty twenty two, I
might not have the passion about wanting to

403
00:34:16,039 --> 00:34:21,320
remind people that this is nothing new
that we're hearing about in the news.

404
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,079
It might be new to people who
haven't really spent much time thinking about it,

405
00:34:25,559 --> 00:34:31,719
but everybody needs to be reminded that
this has been going on, Like

406
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,599
as the Air Force told the cadets, it's been going on for tens of

407
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:45,079
thousands of years, and it's so
frustrating to me that nothing has changed,

408
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:47,360
and yet we get little bits and
pieces. The government now just in the

409
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:54,360
last few years, has kind of
acknowledged the reality of UFOs. The Navy

410
00:34:54,880 --> 00:35:00,159
has shown us their little videos and
now everybody's talking about that tic TAC videos,

411
00:35:00,519 --> 00:35:06,119
the go Fast video, the Flear
video. Oh wow, Okay,

412
00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:08,559
the Navy is like chasing these things. And I keep wondering, now,

413
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:15,599
after all the decades, ever since
the United States Air Force closed Project Bluebook,

414
00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:22,239
in nineteen sixty nine, nineteen seventy
and after decades of denying that anything

415
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:29,639
unbelievable happened at Roswell, New Mexico
in nineteen forty seven, denial, denials,

416
00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:32,880
denials all of a sudden when the
Navy started talking about, just over

417
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:38,280
the last few years, about their
own jet fighter pilots having encounters with UFOs

418
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,960
off the east coast, off the
west coast. Now almost on a daily

419
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,559
basis, I'm saying to people,
where's the Air Force? Why haven't we

420
00:35:47,599 --> 00:35:52,760
heard from the air Force? Because
technically, isn't the air Force protecting the

421
00:35:53,199 --> 00:35:59,199
protecting the skies? Like, hello, air Force. It's almost as if

422
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,079
they're saying, you know what,
we've had enough egg on our face for

423
00:36:02,119 --> 00:36:07,000
a long time. What happen Navy
deal with this? That's what I'm feeling.

424
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:13,679
I wonder it's it's been a puzzle, um why they have not you

425
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,719
know, I mean, you would
think that it would they would be in

426
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:21,800
the in the front on this because
it's it's the skies. I think the

427
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,000
Navy has done a great job.
Yeah uh. And it's it's so weird

428
00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:29,440
because you'd think that they that they
would would want to do something like together.

429
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,320
Okay, Air Force, since we
have jurisdiction over the skies, we'll

430
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,760
cover all the things in the skies. You Navy, you've got the oceans.

431
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:44,440
You cover the USOS, the unidentified
submersible objects, so you know,

432
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:49,280
you do the That makes more sense, you know, let's work together.

433
00:36:49,519 --> 00:36:52,920
But no, the Air Force,
it's like nowhere to be seen. Oh

434
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:59,880
my god. Yeah, but I
think that's all reporting. Now that they're

435
00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:02,400
scoring, there are some changes so
all the read there will not be the

436
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,960
stigma about reporting for the Air Force
as well for all military from what I

437
00:37:07,039 --> 00:37:14,880
understand right, I mean they're trying
to make it more available to military personnel

438
00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:19,960
who want to report something, give
them specific roots and places to go to,

439
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:25,679
complete people to talk to. But
it doesn't It doesn't solve the mystery

440
00:37:27,039 --> 00:37:30,760
of what we're talking about and what
we're dealing with here. I don't want

441
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:37,119
to know who to report something too. I want someone who's in command,

442
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,119
and I don't know if that's anyone
who's in the United States or even in

443
00:37:42,159 --> 00:37:47,119
any country. Maybe it's a United
Nations thing, but I think what the

444
00:37:47,159 --> 00:38:00,480
public really deserves or needs is some
equilateral international voice thing or someone that speaks

445
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,599
for the nations of Earth, for
all the citizens of Earth, to say,

446
00:38:06,159 --> 00:38:09,920
all right, folks, now that
we have sort of acknowledged the reality

447
00:38:10,199 --> 00:38:16,199
of many UFOs, we're not just
ridiculing people anymore. We're not making you

448
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,000
think that that thing that you saw
the other night, that was zigzagging in

449
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,840
the sky, We're not going to
try and make you believe that was Venus.

450
00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:28,840
Venus doesn't behave that way. You
know, We're not going to make

451
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,000
you feel like you don't know what
you're talking about, and we're not going

452
00:38:32,039 --> 00:38:37,840
to do We're not going to ridicule
and ruin people's lives anymore like it used

453
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,199
to happen. We want to get
rid of the stigma, and the only

454
00:38:42,199 --> 00:38:45,639
way to do that is to say
to you, we're looking into it.

455
00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:52,360
We thought at first it might be
Russia or China and some advanced technology,

456
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:59,559
but maybe we're not going in that
direction because the properties associated with the phenomenon,

457
00:39:00,199 --> 00:39:06,519
the maneuverability, the characteristics are all
the same things that were described in

458
00:39:06,599 --> 00:39:13,519
nineteen forty seven in a memo by
Air Force General Nathan Twining to the Air

459
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:19,360
Material Command. And that was back
then. They weren't even calling them UFOs

460
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,920
or flying sauces. They were known
as flying discs. And and in that

461
00:39:23,679 --> 00:39:31,280
that memo begins with the phenomenon reported
is something real. It's not imaginary,

462
00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:37,159
it's not made up. It has
objects that approximate the size and characteristics of

463
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:43,800
man made aircraft that have incredible maneuverability. Blah blah blah, especially when approached

464
00:39:44,119 --> 00:39:49,920
by a friendly aircraft. They're very
evasive. Nineteen forty seven. I love

465
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:54,679
to remind people this was a real
document in nineteen forty seven, seventy five

466
00:39:54,800 --> 00:40:01,079
years ago. The military was talking
behind the scene means about the things that

467
00:40:01,119 --> 00:40:07,239
are still being encountered by the military. What is wrong with this picture?

468
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:14,719
That's right, I mean this this
long ago. Yeah, and the military

469
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,920
talking about it. And yeah,
a lot of a lot of people have

470
00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:22,480
said, you know, along the
lines of the more things change, the

471
00:40:22,559 --> 00:40:25,599
more they stay the same type of
oh yeah, you know, yeah,

472
00:40:25,639 --> 00:40:30,920
I'm going to pull up that the
twining membo, but I have it here.

473
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:36,199
I just have to convert it.
Um, what about this album that

474
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,960
you have? Yeah, are you
gonna are you going to be able to

475
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:44,679
offer that yes, so people can
actually listen to it. And I do

476
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,000
have that other clip I'm going to
play in just a minute. Okay.

477
00:40:46,559 --> 00:40:53,400
My plan is that because it's still
relevant. Everything that's on this album,

478
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:59,039
all the things that the people mentioned
talked about, it's all relevant all these

479
00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:02,440
years later, and a lot of
people have been asking me if I'll ever

480
00:41:02,599 --> 00:41:07,960
rerelease it. Yes, I'm going
to soon rerelease it as like an anniversary

481
00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:14,159
presentation. And what I will do, Martin, is as soon as I'm

482
00:41:14,199 --> 00:41:17,440
ready to go with that, I
will let you be one of the first

483
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:24,199
people that will offer it to you, to offer it to your your listeners,

484
00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:28,960
and then we'll put it out there. We'll post all kinds of notices

485
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,039
about it. We'll do it through
the unexed network that I'm on. But

486
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:36,440
once I make the decision to do
this, I really want people to hear

487
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,480
this because every time I hear it, and god knows how many times I've

488
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:45,320
heard it now overtheless, you know, five decades, I keep thinking,

489
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:50,039
oh my god, this is still
this is still relevant. Now. You

490
00:41:50,159 --> 00:41:53,320
obviously were right there when these people
were talking. Right, Oh yeah,

491
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:59,440
just some icons here, j Alan
Heinike of course, who you knew who

492
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,840
had a friendship with, but you
know, Gordon Cooper. I think he

493
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:07,599
was an amazing guy. I thought
he was wonderful, and several other people.

494
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:12,360
And I'm going to play your side
too. This is a shorter clip.

495
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,320
This is only about four minutes on
this one. Right here, here

496
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,679
we go, Congressman J. Edward
Roush, The people shouldn't be told.

497
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,519
I think there's nothing which is more
frightening than to be confronted with something that

498
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:29,719
is new, particularly in this area. And through knowledge we can perhaps relieve

499
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,559
the fears of a lot of people. I want to know, I should

500
00:42:32,639 --> 00:42:37,800
know. I deserve to know.
And this curiosity which I have and which

501
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:43,000
is whetted by the various sightings,
is such that I want to pursue it,

502
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,639
just as I think the great majority
of the American people would like to

503
00:42:45,679 --> 00:42:50,599
pursue the question in order to come
to the place where they have an answer.

504
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,599
Major Donald Kehoe, this thing is
building up rapidly. You have publicity

505
00:42:54,880 --> 00:43:00,559
constantly, almost every day, there's
something on TV or there's a side report.

506
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:05,239
There should be a plan and operation, a gradual teaching of the public

507
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,159
what these things are building. All
up to the more serious aspects, but

508
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,519
in emphasizing that there is no proof
of any danger, that's the way it

509
00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:16,360
should have been done long ago.
Astronaut Gordon Cooper. I think people are

510
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:20,639
prepared for it if it were done
in the right manner. But I think

511
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,639
likewise the same way that a lot
of people don't believe anything about UFOs because

512
00:43:23,639 --> 00:43:29,559
of some of the totally absurd treatises
that have come out on them. Everyone's

513
00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:31,760
afraid of the unknown. But the
more they know about them, the more

514
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,840
that we have the likelihood of somebody
treating some of these with a little friendly

515
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,840
or fashion and perhaps less frightened fashion, maybe we can begin to find out

516
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:45,440
more about them. Astronaut Jim mcdippick. There are an awful lot of stars

517
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,639
in our universe, and our star
our son has a lot of planets around

518
00:43:49,679 --> 00:43:52,960
it, and it would seem highly
egotistical. I think that if we thought

519
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,440
that we were the only planet in
the entire universe that had life on it,

520
00:43:55,559 --> 00:44:00,559
and I can't imagine myself that there
aren't environments throughout that entire universe and

521
00:44:00,639 --> 00:44:06,840
are in some way similar to ours. Missus Betty Hill. Knowledge belongs to

522
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:12,119
everyone. I don't think anyone has
the right to censor, or deny or

523
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,719
prevent anyone from learning. I think
the people have the right to know because

524
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:22,159
you have bows. As everybody's business. Doctor j Alan Heineck. Alert would

525
00:44:22,199 --> 00:44:25,559
depend on how the news was broken
to us. What is the whole point?

526
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:30,039
If something is so good, Heavens, we should be mature enough to

527
00:44:30,039 --> 00:44:39,639
know that. The situation is we're
just now beginning to explore beyond our own

528
00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:46,440
planet. It's not inconceivable that other
civilizations could have already begun their exploration of

529
00:44:46,519 --> 00:44:52,800
other planetary systems, including our own
Solar system. It is, after all,

530
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,840
one of the objectives of our space
program to seek out and study other

531
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:02,039
forms of life. I urge you
to keep an open mind about UFOs and

532
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:08,239
the probability of the existence of other
intelligent life throughout the universe, because it

533
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:13,159
is there. Think about that the
next time you gaze up at the stars

534
00:45:13,159 --> 00:45:19,440
in a clear night, Gaze long
and hard. The credibility factor of UFOs

535
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:38,880
needn't stretch the imagination too far.
I'll get to it. That was great,

536
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:45,559
you know. With every person who
I interviewed on that album, I

537
00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:49,360
was sitting there on the other side
of the microphone, and while they were

538
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,360
answering my questions, I kept thinking
to myself, God, please, somebody

539
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:59,000
pinch me. This is great stuff
I'm getting. Nobody's going to believe this.

540
00:45:59,679 --> 00:46:04,800
And here's another thing that people don't
realize. You know, when you

541
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,039
do an interview with someone, I
mean you're not just going to meet them

542
00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:08,599
for ten or fifteen minutes. You're
going to sit with them for a while,

543
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:13,679
spend a day with them and get
a lot of really good information in

544
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,320
an interview. I can't block them. And and like you, you do,

545
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:22,840
you edit down to the most interesting, relevant stuff to put on a

546
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:28,400
forty five minute album. And I
still have all the original interview tapes that

547
00:46:28,559 --> 00:46:31,239
has stuff on them that no one
no one has ever heard. I haven't

548
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:37,719
even listened to these recordings in almost
fifty years, so there's a lot of

549
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:44,000
stuff there that is just sitting there
waiting to be heard. And that's one

550
00:46:44,039 --> 00:46:49,280
of the reasons that it's almost forcing
me to re release this to give I

551
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:54,360
guess a new generation to people,
maybe another piece of credibility in the UFO

552
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:59,360
field that maybe it wasn't there.
So I'm proud of it. Have always

553
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:04,480
been proud of this. And if
it wasn't for this record album, I

554
00:47:04,519 --> 00:47:07,639
never would have made it to the
United Nations without this album. Yeah,

555
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:13,920
let's talk a little bit about that. That that is just totally amazing to

556
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:21,320
me. Well after after the album
came out in nineteen seventy six, and

557
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,719
and we we sold some copies of
it, and it did pretty well.

558
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:30,239
And several months went by and I
started thinking, well, okay, I've

559
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:34,679
done this album? What left is
there for me to do? I mean,

560
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,400
really, you know who am I? I mean, you know what

561
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,360
else I think I can do?
And I thought, boy, I would

562
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:50,119
like to reach a larger audience somehow, if possible. And a couple of

563
00:47:50,119 --> 00:47:52,400
people friends of mine and said,
well, why don't you take it to

564
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,880
the United Nations? And I thought, I don't know United Nations really,

565
00:47:55,639 --> 00:47:59,679
And then others said to me,
no, you you You can't just go

566
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:04,559
to the United Nations and knock on
the front door and say hello, may

567
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:08,000
I come in and talk to someone
about doing a presentation here about UFOs And

568
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:15,079
either a they would politely ask you
to leave, or they would impolitely have

569
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:21,880
you arrested for even thinking of such
a thing. And someone else said to

570
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:25,599
me, the only way you can
do a presentation at the United Nations is

571
00:48:25,639 --> 00:48:32,679
if you are a citizen of a
country that is interested in this topic and

572
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:38,960
wants to do a presentation and sponsor
it for the country. And I thought,

573
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:44,559
well, okay, and I did
some digging, and in nineteen seventy

574
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:50,599
eight, the little country of Grenada
was the only game in town. No

575
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:58,440
other country, honor, was doing
anything to open up the subject of UFOs.

576
00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:04,800
But there in like early nineteen seventy
seven, I started noticing every once

577
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,519
in a while the Prime Minister of
Grenada, Eric Gary, was doing these

578
00:49:08,559 --> 00:49:15,360
little speeches and press conferences and trying
to get the media and the un interested

579
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:22,480
in his personal UFO crusade. He
wanted to create some kind of a of

580
00:49:22,519 --> 00:49:28,400
a UFO committee that that would be
open internationally for all countries of the world

581
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:34,000
to to share information and and just
you know, share it with each other,

582
00:49:34,639 --> 00:49:37,679
and that he wanted the country of
Grenada to be the clearinghouse. Let's

583
00:49:37,679 --> 00:49:43,400
have this little committee happened in my
country. And I'm thinking, no,

584
00:49:43,559 --> 00:49:46,280
it's an interesting idea, but no, I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want

585
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:52,679
to open it in the Grenada if
we can't even get that far. And

586
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:57,199
so but again, nobody was doing
anything about UFOs. So I am going

587
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,280
to touch with the with the Grenade
the Mission. As you probably know,

588
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:06,679
every country in the United Nations,
they have their own offices in and around

589
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,320
the United Nations area on the East
side of New York, and they're called

590
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:15,480
missions. Each country has its own
mission. And so I just got in

591
00:50:15,519 --> 00:50:19,960
touch with the country of Grenade and
Mission, and I got one of the

592
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:27,280
ambassadors on the phone, introduced myself
and said that I'm only Spiegel. I

593
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:34,760
just recently finished producing a recording a
documentary record album for CBS. I wanted

594
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,559
to say that so they would understand
that I did something for a large company,

595
00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:45,360
and I would like to present my
album to your Prime Minister as a

596
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:50,360
gift because I have an idea of
something that I could do that could help

597
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:55,679
him and you in your country to
be heard by the United Nations. And

598
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,639
they said, come on down,
bring your album down. Knock, come

599
00:50:59,679 --> 00:51:04,400
on down Grenada, but come on
down to our mission. Take a subway

600
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,039
it comes to yes, and I
did. I brought a copy of the

601
00:51:07,039 --> 00:51:10,599
album when it was still a vinyl
album, and they were very nice to

602
00:51:10,639 --> 00:51:15,880
me and they were going to forward
the album to Grenada to the Prime Minister

603
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:20,000
and they said they'd get back to
me, and a couple of weeks later,

604
00:51:20,199 --> 00:51:25,119
one of the ambassadors called me and
said that Prime Minister Gary was coming

605
00:51:25,119 --> 00:51:31,760
to New York soon to be knighted
as Sir Eric Gary in a big ceremony

606
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,679
at the UN. Would I like
to be there? Would I like to

607
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:42,400
come and be part and watch the
ceremony because the Prime Minister would like to

608
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,400
talk to you about your idea?
And I said yes, I would love

609
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,599
that very much, thank you.
So in the meantime, I put together

610
00:51:49,639 --> 00:51:53,400
an actual proposal, a proposal of
what I would like to do at the

611
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:58,280
United Nations. Who I would bring, what I would show there, how

612
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,199
I would do it, what the
timeline of should be. And I brought

613
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:06,280
this proposal with me to the UN. And it was the first time I

614
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:12,400
ever set foot in the United Nations
for the caronation the nineteenth of Sir Eric

615
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,079
Gary. It was a whole big
deal. It was very nice to be

616
00:52:15,159 --> 00:52:19,159
there. When it was all over, they brought me into a private room

617
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,960
and then they brought the Prime Minister
in and they left us there alone.

618
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:27,079
And I remember thinking, why would
they leave that the leader of their country

619
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:31,360
alone with this guy? Exactly?
It's like, wait, a minute.

620
00:52:31,639 --> 00:52:37,480
Okay, you know, am I
being watched? You must have been,

621
00:52:37,639 --> 00:52:38,880
hey, Lee, Just so let
you know we only have one minute for

622
00:52:39,039 --> 00:52:43,679
kgra A Radio. Okay, to
continue on, but just let you know,

623
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,239
okay. Well, and so that's
kind of how it all started.

624
00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:54,199
Over a handshake deal. Eric Gary
agreed to sponsor my proposal and I became

625
00:52:54,440 --> 00:53:00,320
an actual delegate of Granada. They
issued me a delegate's card, which made

626
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:05,559
me officially a sponsor of Grenada and
allowed me to go to the UN whenever

627
00:53:05,639 --> 00:53:09,400
I want through the main gates of
security to have meetings with people. And

628
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:15,599
because of what I was doing there, word got back to the State Department

629
00:53:15,599 --> 00:53:19,320
of Washington, we later learned,
and they were also keeping an eye on

630
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:22,280
what I was doing with the people
that I was bringing to the United Nations.

631
00:53:22,519 --> 00:53:25,880
And then all right, so we're
just going to say goodbye right now

632
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:30,840
to the people at KGr A Radio. If you're watching on Facebook or YouTube

633
00:53:30,880 --> 00:54:05,159
hanging there, we'll be right back. Yeah. Great, So we're continuing

634
00:54:05,159 --> 00:54:09,039
on here. I forgot to announce
that next week's guest I wanted to tell

635
00:54:09,039 --> 00:54:13,320
the people over at KGr A Radio. But before I forget, we have

636
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:19,960
Frank Marchus. He's the senior planetary
astronomer at SETI Institute. He'll be on

637
00:54:20,079 --> 00:54:22,960
next week, so it should be
a very interesting show, and we are

638
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:29,639
going to talk about UFOs and SETI
together somehow. I have a question for

639
00:54:29,679 --> 00:54:36,519
you to ask him. Okay,
the question is why doesn't city Why don't

640
00:54:36,519 --> 00:54:42,119
city scientists, especially astronomers, why
don't they like to talk about UFOs in

641
00:54:42,159 --> 00:54:46,920
general? What is the overall opinion
of city of UFOs? Oh? I

642
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:53,320
had Seth Shostack on three. Yeah, and he basically told me that,

643
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:57,519
and some people are pretty angry about
it. But he's a very good debater,

644
00:54:57,639 --> 00:55:02,639
by the way. And he told
me that if you had a wing

645
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:09,280
of the Smithsonian with UFO parts,
then maybe he would believe that they exist.

646
00:55:09,599 --> 00:55:15,159
And so I basically said, does
this threaten your your your ability to

647
00:55:15,519 --> 00:55:19,719
fundraise for said he is that why
you don't want to talk about it?

648
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,559
You know, I asked some questions
like that, and you know, he

649
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:29,199
was very good at working around the
question. Yeah, and he was very

650
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:30,719
good at, you know, kind
of making me feel like a fool for

651
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:35,199
asking some of the questions I did. But you know, now he's part

652
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:39,079
of the Galileo project with Avi Loebe. So I wonder how that's all going.

653
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,880
Well. You know, I don't
know who told me this, but

654
00:55:43,039 --> 00:55:47,719
several months ago, when I first
read that his name was associated with the

655
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:53,440
Galileo project, someone else told me
that he's not actually really a part of

656
00:55:53,480 --> 00:56:00,960
it. I don't know that he
was even invited by doctor ave Lobe.

657
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:07,880
I mean, it could be wrong, but seth shots tacks overall opinion about

658
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:12,800
UFOs is that until, like until
the Smithsonian has pieces and parts from a

659
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,480
UFO or flying saucer, then there's
no evidence at all that we should even

660
00:56:17,519 --> 00:56:24,320
consider that something from far away is
visiting us. They just won't consider that.

661
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:30,800
And ave Lobe's opinion is we think
that something has come past us,

662
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:35,679
and that there might be other things
that indicate that we are not alone.

663
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:42,079
And I wouldn't think that they would
want anyone in that study, the Galileo

664
00:56:42,119 --> 00:56:49,280
study, or the project to be
tossing in sentences like no, there is

665
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,079
no evidence that there's any life out
there. All that we're doing is just

666
00:56:52,119 --> 00:56:57,440
putting all of our money and our
funding into listening with our little radio telescopes

667
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,639
and find a signal. And then
you say to them, Okay, what

668
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:06,679
if we do get a signal from
somewhere and it's maybe like a two or

669
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:10,559
three words like hi, and we
can actually get that signal and we can

670
00:57:10,599 --> 00:57:15,719
figure out a way of replying like
hi back to you. How long would

671
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:21,639
that exchange take? How many more
decades would it be to get to the

672
00:57:21,719 --> 00:57:25,039
third exchange? And there'll be none
of us left on earth anyway? Who

673
00:57:25,039 --> 00:57:30,679
are talking about this now? And
it's like really? And I once did

674
00:57:30,679 --> 00:57:37,000
a project with doctor Frank Drake,
who created the SETI Institute. We worked

675
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,360
on a radio show together and we
were alone in a conference room and I

676
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:46,239
said to him, Frank, I
know how the SETI Institute normally likes to

677
00:57:46,679 --> 00:57:51,960
avoid talking about UFOs, and how
do you feel about it? And he

678
00:57:52,039 --> 00:57:57,920
said to me, well, I
haven't really been shown anything by officials that

679
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,719
would make me consider that thing is
here. And I said, but Frank,

680
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:08,360
they're landing in people's backyards. And
does that mean that everyone who makes

681
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:15,320
these kinds of reports are lying that
they're out of their minds, They're they're

682
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:22,519
crazy, they're they're just totally out
of out of reality. We can't continue

683
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:28,000
to have that attitude about people there
has to be a new attitude that requires

684
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:35,199
science looking at this there's too much
going on. And I even reminded him,

685
00:58:35,199 --> 00:58:37,159
like I do all the time,
Frank, have you ever heard of

686
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:42,360
General Nathan twenty nineteen forty seven memo? I mean, come on, this

687
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,800
is nothing new. I'm glad you
asked those questions. Anyway, you know,

688
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:51,519
and you know I've I've talked to
us. I talked to Stan Freedman

689
00:58:51,599 --> 00:58:53,320
many times about said he and you
know, and he had that I forget

690
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:59,280
what he called the silly I forget
what he had a great phrase for.

691
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:04,679
But anyway, um, you know, it's better than doing nothing them,

692
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:09,719
Yeah, at least looking. But
I mean for them to actually find a

693
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:15,079
radio signal. We have no idea
how they would communicate, That's right.

694
00:59:15,079 --> 00:59:21,679
I have no idea when and how, um, different society levels can pass

695
00:59:21,719 --> 00:59:25,880
by each other, you know,
for technology or what type of technology?

696
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:31,719
You know? Are they so far
advanced that they're using something that radio signals

697
00:59:31,719 --> 00:59:37,079
are passe for for thousands of years? Who knows? But um, if

698
00:59:37,079 --> 00:59:39,800
they find something, I think the
James Webb has more of a chance in

699
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:45,360
finding something than um. With the
atmospheres, they will be able to detect

700
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:51,360
um, you know, pollutions and
atmospheres, I believe by colors or something.

701
00:59:51,679 --> 00:59:53,199
Yeah. About about a week ago, one of the one of the

702
00:59:53,239 --> 00:59:59,760
first images that came back from the
webbe was an image that they said they

703
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:05,679
would definitely now able to to know
one of the large exo planets around a

704
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:12,239
far Sunum. It now shows definitely
that it has water in its atmosphere,

705
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:17,920
and we didn't know that before before
James Webb got got turned on. So

706
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,840
now it's not to say that this
planet has life on it or what kind

707
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:28,400
of life it is, but the
fact that we're that much closer to even

708
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,159
knowing. But again then you have
to you have to ask the next question.

709
01:00:31,159 --> 01:00:35,880
Okay, well, so let's say
we find whatever maybe is the closest

710
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:42,920
exo planet to Earth that maybe has
possible life on it. So what is

711
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:49,199
my my question? How do we
get there? We we currently don't have

712
01:00:49,719 --> 01:00:57,559
the technology, the the Star Trek
or the Star Wars technology warp speed hyper

713
01:00:57,679 --> 01:01:01,639
drive to get us there in a
couple of minutes. We don't have that.

714
01:01:02,159 --> 01:01:07,440
But it's like every time Stanton Friedman
used to do a lecture, he

715
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:12,760
would always say to his audiences he
would say, all of the skeptics,

716
01:01:13,079 --> 01:01:17,119
the naysayers, the debunkers, they
all live by the same mantra, and

717
01:01:17,159 --> 01:01:22,679
that mantra is don't bother me with
the facts. My mind is already made

718
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:29,800
up. Or he would say another
one you would say, as he says

719
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:35,960
on the album, when somebody says
that that bit of UFO evidence is impossible,

720
01:01:36,159 --> 01:01:37,639
what they're really saying is, I
don't know how to do that.

721
01:01:38,199 --> 01:01:40,800
So so if I don't know how
to do it, that means nobody else

722
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:47,320
knows how to do it either.
And how long have we been with technology

723
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:52,960
that can fly in the skies?
I mean we're talking white brothers or pre

724
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:58,239
write brothers with aircraft, But hasn't
been more than two hundred years that we've

725
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:07,079
had flying ality technology. So let's
say any other planet somewhere out there that

726
01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:10,079
maybe, oh, let's give them
five hundred years ahead of us, Oh,

727
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:14,719
let's let's be let's be nice,
give them a thousand years ahead of

728
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,800
us. Do you think someone who's
a thousand years ahead of us now has

729
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:25,400
the ability to do some hopscotching through
wormholes or better yet, time travel.

730
01:02:27,039 --> 01:02:35,000
The whole Michael Master's idea of many
UFOs could be us, our descendants using

731
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:40,320
time travel technology in the distant future
to come back in time to study their

732
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:45,400
own past. Gotta love that.
Yeah, yeah, I do love that.

733
01:02:45,519 --> 01:02:51,360
I think that is a fantastic thought. So I was. I actually

734
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:55,360
got to see the James Webb telescope
as it was being built. Oh cool,

735
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:59,000
And yeah, I took a bunch
of pictures just looking for them.

736
01:02:59,039 --> 01:03:01,519
Now I have them somewhere. You
know, people are all dressed up in

737
01:03:01,559 --> 01:03:07,000
there like Hazmatt white suits and yeah, you're very very careful this time because

738
01:03:07,039 --> 01:03:09,800
you know the Hubble space craft,
I mean the Hubble telescope. When that

739
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:15,800
went up, it had two microns
were often the mirror, which caused blurrness.

740
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:21,000
Now that Webb had a like a
folding type of mirror, which is

741
01:03:21,159 --> 01:03:25,320
really amazing. That everything worked perfectly
because they only had one shot at a

742
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:29,599
million miles away. That's right,
There's no way we could ever get to

743
01:03:29,639 --> 01:03:34,400
it to work on it exactly.
So we had the one shot and can

744
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,039
you imagine with the billions of dollars, I think it went way over budget.

745
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:43,199
They kept having to raise the stakes
on that to make sure that it's

746
01:03:43,199 --> 01:03:49,159
at a very cold temperature something like
three hundred below zero fahrenheit, and it

747
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:53,559
it has to maintain that cold temperature
in order to work properly. So there's

748
01:03:53,719 --> 01:03:58,239
a shield for the sun. There's
all these different things that are involved.

749
01:03:58,239 --> 01:04:01,559
It's really amazing technology, I know, and they I think that. I

750
01:04:01,599 --> 01:04:05,159
read an earlier report that once it
got out there and it unfolded and was

751
01:04:05,199 --> 01:04:11,760
getting going through all of its early
testing, that there were a few instances

752
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:17,199
where micro micro micro meteoroids had hit
it, you know, yep, but

753
01:04:17,239 --> 01:04:21,280
didn't They're going like forty some one
thousand miles an hour, yeah, you

754
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:27,440
know, and a bullet travels out
of fraction of that. It's like,

755
01:04:27,519 --> 01:04:32,159
so the amount of money and the
amount of risks, but so far the

756
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:36,360
rewards have been incredible so far.
I hope we get the twenty years plus

757
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:40,480
out of it. That would be
just amazing. Yeah. There's someone in

758
01:04:40,599 --> 01:04:45,000
chat that has asked over and over
again. I'm not familiar with this person.

759
01:04:45,079 --> 01:04:48,960
Maybe it's the first time he's visiting. Welcome anyway, Ray Nash.

760
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:56,039
He wants to know why there aren't
any interviews with Max Brazil Mac Brazil.

761
01:04:56,239 --> 01:05:00,400
Is it mac Brazil from roswell Well? I don't the interviews. I've never

762
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:06,960
seen one. I don't know,
m I I have heard, I have

763
01:05:08,079 --> 01:05:13,519
heard audio interviews that he had done, um possibly with like one of the

764
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:20,679
local Roswell radio stations. But I
believe that he did them under the under

765
01:05:20,719 --> 01:05:27,960
the watchful eye of whoever was in
charge of keeping things quiet on what it

766
01:05:28,079 --> 01:05:31,480
was it crashed on the ranch there
in Roswell, because once once he went

767
01:05:31,519 --> 01:05:35,000
to the military and you know,
started saying, this thing landed, and

768
01:05:35,039 --> 01:05:40,039
I've got these pieces and and I'm
going to go to the to the authorities,

769
01:05:40,159 --> 01:05:42,280
or I'm going to go to the
press and talk about it. Well,

770
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:45,960
then you know, the authorities as
they did the day after the initial

771
01:05:45,199 --> 01:05:50,840
famous Roswell Daily Record report, you
know, military captors UFO or Flying Saucer.

772
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:54,320
And the very next day, Nope, it was a weather balloon.

773
01:05:54,559 --> 01:05:59,039
Sorry, we goofed. You don't
make that kind of a goof. And

774
01:05:59,119 --> 01:06:05,360
so I think that in order to
keep mac Brasil quiet without actually out and

775
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:13,679
out making him disappear, was probably
a way of allowing him to do some

776
01:06:13,719 --> 01:06:18,480
interviews. I would bet Martin that
if you, if you or anyone would

777
01:06:18,599 --> 01:06:27,440
just do an actual Google search for
for any kind of audio clips from mac

778
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,519
Brasil and you know, you know
who else might be the person to talk

779
01:06:30,559 --> 01:06:34,599
to you about this, Dave Marler. I think we might have an archive

780
01:06:34,679 --> 01:06:41,280
of it. He Dave Marla has
the most incredible UFO facility of research in

781
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:45,880
his at his Albuquerque home. I've
been to the place. It's in fact.

782
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:53,119
Upon his demise, hopefully not too
soon, everything he has is going

783
01:06:53,199 --> 01:06:57,519
to go to the University of New
Mexico. He already has. He is

784
01:06:57,559 --> 01:07:03,039
now the curator of the complete Nightcap
original files, the complete j L and

785
01:07:03,119 --> 01:07:09,639
Heineck personal UFO files. All that
stuff was shipped to him over a year

786
01:07:09,639 --> 01:07:12,920
ago so that he can take everything, and he's in the process now of

787
01:07:13,079 --> 01:07:17,199
digitizing everything. I think I'm gonna
have to go visit him. You're gonna

788
01:07:17,239 --> 01:07:21,239
have to go visit him and maybe
even broadcast one of your shows that I

789
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:25,599
would like to do that. It's
will to talk to him about that,

790
01:07:26,519 --> 01:07:30,119
and I know he'd love to have
me out there. I'm up and I'm

791
01:07:30,119 --> 01:07:32,639
going to be in Shag Harbor in
October. I'm going to do a talk

792
01:07:32,719 --> 01:07:35,039
up there, so that should be
a lot of fun. And Dave and

793
01:07:35,079 --> 01:07:38,400
I are going to be hanging out
together. Oh, that should be a

794
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:42,119
lot of fun. Oh good,
Yeah, Now I want to I want

795
01:07:42,159 --> 01:07:44,679
you to. I know you've talked
about this many times on my show,

796
01:07:44,719 --> 01:07:48,079
but it's so incredible. This guy
has been patient asked right from the very

797
01:07:48,119 --> 01:07:51,639
beginning if you would talk about this, and it's right here, could you

798
01:07:51,679 --> 01:07:59,639
talk about your amazing sighting in North
Carolina the de Rito. Well, I

799
01:07:59,639 --> 01:08:02,039
know you've told him many times,
but I love hearing it every time because

800
01:08:02,039 --> 01:08:06,679
it's just amazing. Okay, And
at some point I'm going to ask you,

801
01:08:08,079 --> 01:08:10,840
but not not yet, I ask
you to put one of those two

802
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:15,159
pages up on the screen again,
that that you were showing before at the

803
01:08:15,239 --> 01:08:16,760
end of both of the clips that
you're ate. I do have that,

804
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:20,199
okay, but don't put it up
yet. Okay. I'll cue you for

805
01:08:20,239 --> 01:08:28,199
that one, Okay. In nineteen
seventy five, while I was in New

806
01:08:28,279 --> 01:08:36,279
York putting together the interviews for my
UFOs The Credibility Factor record album, I

807
01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:41,920
got a call one day from doctor
Henik at the Center for UFO Studies,

808
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:49,479
and he told me that he was
getting a variety of phone calls from sheriff's

809
01:08:49,520 --> 01:09:00,319
people. Highway patrolman police officers from
the Lumberton, North Carolina area, and

810
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:05,399
they were seeing something odd in the
skies for like two or three nights in

811
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:12,159
a row, and a lot of
police officer, a lot of police and

812
01:09:12,239 --> 01:09:17,399
law enforcement agencies and departments around the
country were all given an eight hundred number

813
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:23,119
that Alan Heinek had provided them all
with through the Center for UFO Studies.

814
01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:26,880
Basically said, I'm Alan Heinik.
I used to do this for Project Bluebook.

815
01:09:27,159 --> 01:09:30,079
Now I have the Center for UFO
Studies. I'd like to provide you

816
01:09:30,159 --> 01:09:33,199
free of charge with an eight hundred
number. If you folks get inundated with

817
01:09:33,199 --> 01:09:36,359
the calls in your area, give
us a call. We'll see you.

818
01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:42,560
We can do it to help.
And so the Lumberton police officials contacted them

819
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:46,479
and said, we don't have any
people down here that can investigate this.

820
01:09:47,039 --> 01:09:53,640
Can you come and help us with
this? And he asked me, he

821
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:56,800
said, I know that you're working
on your UFO album, but do you

822
01:09:56,840 --> 01:10:01,479
have any time to go down to
Lumberton and check it out? And could

823
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:06,479
you do some interviews down there with
people who are seeing this strange object?

824
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:11,880
So I said, what are they
seeing? He said, well, here

825
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:15,880
in nineteen seventy five, they're reporting
something that we haven't really heard much about

826
01:10:17,119 --> 01:10:21,920
in recent history. They're seeing something. They're saying it's either a V shaped

827
01:10:23,439 --> 01:10:28,760
or a triangular shape or boomerang shaped
object in the sky. So I said,

828
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:33,520
okay, let me get this straight. Instead of a classic flying saucer

829
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:38,119
circular shape, you know, flat
on the bottom, domed on top,

830
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:43,880
you're asking me to go there and
check out a flying dorito. Is that

831
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:47,640
what we're what we're getting at here? He said, well, if you

832
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:53,520
don't want to go, and I
said, Allan, don't finish that thought.

833
01:10:54,199 --> 01:10:59,279
You're you're the last person in America
I want to piss off. I'm

834
01:10:59,319 --> 01:11:04,640
going. I'm definitely going. And
he said, look, if you get

835
01:11:04,640 --> 01:11:09,920
some really good interviews and write up
a report, I'll publish them through the

836
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:13,880
Center for UFO Studies. And I
said that great, thank you, and

837
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:19,960
off I went and actually flew down
to North Carolina with one of the reporters

838
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:27,479
for the National Star newspaper, which
was competing with the National Enquirer back then

839
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:33,399
in nineteen seventy five. And I
got there. I flew into Fayetteville and

840
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:40,359
was picked up by someone from Lumberton. They drove us down and instead of

841
01:11:41,199 --> 01:11:45,119
checking into the local holiday inn,
we went right to the Sheriff's department and

842
01:11:45,279 --> 01:11:50,399
that's where I met Sheriff's deputy and
dispatcher Ron Thompson, who I'm still in

843
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:58,640
touch with all these years later.
And Ron Thompson was on the dispatcher board

844
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:00,600
that night, and I was there
for a while talking to a variety of

845
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:05,079
people, and all of a sudden, after the sun went down, the

846
01:12:05,159 --> 01:12:11,039
calls started coming into the to the
board and he said to me, we've

847
01:12:11,079 --> 01:12:14,159
got a lot of calls coming in. Let's go. And I said,

848
01:12:14,159 --> 01:12:15,520
well, tell me what we're gonna
do. He said, You're gonna come

849
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,800
with me in one car. We're
gonna have a police radio. We're going

850
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:23,880
to keep in touch with the other
police officers in different places, and we're

851
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:28,119
going to stay in touch and see
where this thing is being seen, and

852
01:12:28,279 --> 01:12:30,640
we'll follow it and try and catch
up to it. And that's what we

853
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:39,880
did, and off we went in
pursuit of the flying Derritou and I was

854
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:43,680
I was really excited because I didn't
know what to expect, you know,

855
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:47,840
I mean, what could you expect
in a situation like this? But just

856
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:51,399
a few minutes later, we're off
in the wild and it's there in the

857
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:57,039
rural area outside of Lamboton, North
Carolina. And we pulled up in front

858
01:12:57,079 --> 01:13:03,000
of this field and everybody out of
the cars and turned off the car lights

859
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:09,680
and the entrance and it was very
quiet out there, and the only sound

860
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:14,960
that we could hear in the area
was a sound of animals that were very

861
01:13:15,039 --> 01:13:18,119
nervous about something. You could hear
horses in the documents. You can hear

862
01:13:18,199 --> 01:13:24,560
dogs barking there's something that was bothering
them. And there were there was no

863
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,800
moon out to cast any kind of
glare, and so we could see stars.

864
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:34,520
And as we looked across the field
in front of us, there was

865
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:42,079
a line of trees and from the
left side, moving very slowly from our

866
01:13:42,159 --> 01:13:45,199
left to our right, there was
a white light and then it became a

867
01:13:45,239 --> 01:13:49,640
red light, and then back to
white and back to red, just very

868
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:56,079
slowly above the tops of the trees, moving and then at one point it

869
01:13:56,199 --> 01:14:03,840
stopped and started moving again across the
field in our direction, and we just

870
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:09,520
stood there and watched it as it
came across the field, getting closer and

871
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:14,840
closer. Well, that's that's actually, you can keep that one up there

872
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,520
for now, but that's not the
one yet. But that's good because as

873
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:21,720
it got closer to us, that's
kind of what it looked like as it

874
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:29,079
got close to us and it stopped. Remember it was it wasn't just daylight.

875
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:32,880
It was darker at the time.
It had a row of white lights

876
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:38,960
up one side underneath and red lights
with a larger light at the apex where

877
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:42,840
the two sides came together. And
it just hovered there in the air above

878
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:47,560
us, and it made no noise. There was no sound. There was

879
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:53,880
no engine, no humming, nothing. It just sat there in the sky

880
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:57,800
above us. And I remember thinking, well, I feel pretty secure.

881
01:14:58,079 --> 01:15:01,319
I'm surrounded by Sheriff's people. How
are we patrolman? They got their six

882
01:15:01,359 --> 01:15:05,760
shooters ready, you know, just
in case. And then a moment later,

883
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:09,159
I'm thinking, wait, what am
I thinking? What am I saying

884
01:15:09,159 --> 01:15:14,960
to myself? How how confident and
safe do I feel? Because if whatever

885
01:15:15,039 --> 01:15:19,560
we're looking at up there is here
to eat us or to take us away

886
01:15:20,439 --> 01:15:27,000
to eat us later, you know, um, then then you know we've

887
01:15:27,039 --> 01:15:31,840
had it. And so I didn't
I wasn't scared because I was excited about

888
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:35,039
it, and then and then as
we watched it, and are you getting

889
01:15:35,079 --> 01:15:39,479
ready to show the other picture that
I can't find the other picture. And

890
01:15:39,479 --> 01:15:41,520
I always sent it to me.
No, no, no, I mean

891
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,920
you everywhere you had it up before. At the end of the clips,

892
01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:47,880
it was there were two pictures.
Oh, this one right here. Okay,

893
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:50,680
now, okay, if you can
zoom in on the can't zoom in

894
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:56,760
that's how okay. Painting on the
bottom right hand corner. Yeah, kind

895
01:15:56,760 --> 01:16:00,399
of depicts the situation. Yeah,
you can. You can see the thing

896
01:16:00,399 --> 01:16:04,399
in the sky and what you're seeing
there is from the bright light on the

897
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:08,960
top of it. It shot this
beam of light down to the ground and

898
01:16:09,039 --> 01:16:12,079
in the middle of the ground there
you can see one of the figures there

899
01:16:12,079 --> 01:16:15,560
with his arms outstretched. That was
me. That the that the painter Dale

900
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:21,920
Hendrickson painted me there to indicate that
that's how close I was to this beam

901
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:26,840
of light that hit the ground in
front of us. And the beam of

902
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:30,640
light was only there for a couple
of seconds, and then it went back

903
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:35,199
up into the craft again, still
no sound. Then the whole thing turned

904
01:16:35,239 --> 01:16:42,199
almost like an amber color and started
moving quickly away in another direction. The

905
01:16:42,199 --> 01:16:45,800
whole thing turned it. Yeah,
it was like it was like, it's

906
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:50,479
not a good picture, but this
is a Dale Hint that Dale Hendrickson.

907
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:57,680
He's a great by the way,
he's an amazing painter of outer space scenes.

908
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,800
And he called me one day a
few years ago and asked me to

909
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:05,720
describe what I thought was the most
amazing moment of our encounter. And I

910
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:11,479
described this moment, and he said, would you like it if I could

911
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:16,680
paint that kind of a moment and
maybe offer it and show it at UFO

912
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:20,760
conferences are on the country as Yeah, I think that would be great.

913
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:25,079
And I said to him, would
you like it if I connect you with

914
01:17:25,319 --> 01:17:29,960
Chef Sheriff's deputy now retired, Ron
Thompson, who was standing next to me

915
01:17:30,319 --> 01:17:33,520
when that thing was in the sky
above us, because let him tell his

916
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,840
version of the story, you might
as well get two people talking about it.

917
01:17:38,199 --> 01:17:41,680
And I connected him with Ron,
and from both of our stories,

918
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:45,800
he came up with that and it's
quite nice. I've seen that in person

919
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:50,319
here. I just found another rendition
of it, but it's it's pretty much

920
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:54,199
clear there. And you look like
the guy that looks like Serpico, right,

921
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:57,760
yeah, yeah, I think you
were told that a few times.

922
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:04,000
Yeah, a few times, so
ciprocal or if you will, because of

923
01:18:04,039 --> 01:18:11,039
the folksinger Cat Stevens, Okay,
Cat Stevens. Yes, that's a little

924
01:18:11,079 --> 01:18:14,439
better, better of a picture up. But anyway, that is just an

925
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:17,159
amazing story. It is. It's
an amazing calling. Because there was another

926
01:18:17,239 --> 01:18:21,199
officer and another location that got out
of his car and flashed a light at

927
01:18:21,239 --> 01:18:27,560
it or something. Yeah, we
kept finding other police officers in different counties,

928
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:31,039
and we stopped at one place and
found two police officers who were out

929
01:18:31,039 --> 01:18:35,720
of their car, and they knew
that we were coming because everybody was connected

930
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:40,000
by police radio. And they said
to me, we saw this thing coming

931
01:18:40,039 --> 01:18:44,199
down the road in our direction and
it got to ride above our car and

932
01:18:44,239 --> 01:18:47,000
without stopping, without stopping on a
dime, it made a ninety degree angle,

933
01:18:47,159 --> 01:18:51,319
quick turn and went flying off.
And I've talked with people who said,

934
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:57,720
if there was anything living inside this
thing, they could not have withstood

935
01:18:58,239 --> 01:19:02,319
that kind of an immediate change of
direction. But against you were talking,

936
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:06,840
this is what we think, based
on our knowledge exactly of how we would

937
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:12,319
react in a technology that we don't
know anything about. One thing I'd like

938
01:19:12,359 --> 01:19:15,399
to ask you, Lee do you
think there was Just because it's something I

939
01:19:16,199 --> 01:19:21,119
hear now and then, and it's
probably a kind of a weird thing to

940
01:19:21,119 --> 01:19:25,479
say, but do you feel there
was any time dilation of any kind?

941
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:30,039
No, not that I either know
of or ever experienced. I don't think

942
01:19:30,079 --> 01:19:41,680
anyone else did either. I think
the whole idea of what we experienced,

943
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:44,359
and it wasn't just that night.
I was there, maybe on the third

944
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:48,880
or fourth night when this was happening. I often, like people will often

945
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:53,279
ask me, why don't the UFOs
just show themselves everywhere and just you know,

946
01:19:53,319 --> 01:19:56,840
appear over the cities like in War
of the World's or you know,

947
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:01,960
or Independence Day or whatever. And
I keep saying to people, well,

948
01:20:02,079 --> 01:20:08,319
they have been showing themselves a lot. And and my response to them is

949
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:13,640
if the UFOs didn't want to be
seen, especially at night, all they

950
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:15,920
have to do is turn their lights
off. I mean, you know,

951
01:20:16,319 --> 01:20:21,880
an end of topic. But they
want to be seen. They know they're

952
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:28,279
being seen. How could they not. They know what they're doing, and

953
01:20:28,319 --> 01:20:33,880
they've always known throughout history. They're
not trying to hide from humans. They

954
01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:42,239
know what they're doing for whenever their
reasons. I mean, really, I

955
01:20:42,319 --> 01:20:46,119
can't think of any other way to
respond to that, And so I think

956
01:20:46,159 --> 01:20:49,439
that wherever they show up, you
know, they showed up. They hovered

957
01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:53,000
above us, shot a beam of
light down, as if as if to

958
01:20:53,119 --> 01:20:56,399
say. When the beam went back
up and it turned and went away,

959
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:59,600
it was as if it was saying
to us, yeah, okay, I'm

960
01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:01,079
done with you guys. I'm gonna
go screw around with someone else now.

961
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:08,680
So we after it. After it
left, I found a police chief sitting

962
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:13,640
in his car beside the road,
and he knew I was coming to ask

963
01:21:13,720 --> 01:21:15,399
him some questions. So I asked
him, I understand you had a little

964
01:21:15,399 --> 01:21:19,760
excitement here. He said, yeah. I was sitting in the car eating

965
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:24,439
my sandwich, and the whole inside
of my car was lit up with some

966
01:21:25,119 --> 01:21:28,640
bright light. I said, what
did you do? He said. I

967
01:21:29,119 --> 01:21:32,399
looked out, looked up at the
sky, and there was this thing parked

968
01:21:32,439 --> 01:21:36,479
in the sky right above my car. And made me think, Although no,

969
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:41,840
I was gonna say, it made
me think of the moment in Close

970
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:45,319
Encounters of the Third kind when Richard
Dreyfus is in his truck. Yeah,

971
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:48,319
and he does that, But then
I realized, no. In nineteen seventy

972
01:21:48,359 --> 01:21:53,920
five, Lumberton. That was two
years before the movie came out, exactly.

973
01:21:54,199 --> 01:21:59,319
Yeah, And this police officer was
doing that looking up yeah, And

974
01:21:59,399 --> 01:22:00,439
so I said him, what did
you do? Then he said, well,

975
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:04,319
I've reached the back of the car
pulled out. We had this official

976
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:10,119
when whenever there's we need like an
official light for any emergencies on the roads,

977
01:22:10,319 --> 01:22:14,319
we have this big police lantern.
And I aimed it up at the

978
01:22:14,399 --> 01:22:18,680
thing and I blinked at it and
it blinked back at me. You know

979
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:23,640
how many times I've heard that?
You heard that Father Gilt case. Oh,

980
01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:26,680
yes, there's that so many times, Papua New Guinea. Yes,

981
01:22:27,159 --> 01:22:30,880
there's one case where I heard of. I was speaking about this recently on

982
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:38,960
the show where the person was doing
like the flashing and then he thought,

983
01:22:39,199 --> 01:22:42,960
all right, now I'm thinking I'm
going to flash, and the thing reacted

984
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:45,960
to it. That's reacted to him
thinking about it. That. You know,

985
01:22:45,119 --> 01:22:48,159
when I say that's funny, I
don't really mean it's funny. There

986
01:22:48,199 --> 01:22:55,800
are so many cases. Maybe maybe
we didn't know about these cases in earlier

987
01:22:55,880 --> 01:23:02,359
years, but now you hear about
We're a lot of the UFO phenomenon is

988
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:12,760
tied into the paranormal yea and things
that people describe like that that involves thought

989
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:19,479
processes or consciousness, and more and
more of these stories are coming out that

990
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:25,600
says to me, people aren't just
making this stuff up. They're really experiencing

991
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:31,039
things that have nothing to do with
what they're seeing. It has a whole

992
01:23:31,039 --> 01:23:36,880
other possibility. There were stories that
came out of the nineteen eighty Rendells from

993
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:45,800
forest encounter, the Ventwater's case,
where so many military eyewitnesses saw things in

994
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:48,960
and out of the forest, and
there were reports that some of them saw

995
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:54,359
something that was on the ground,
and some claims that some of the military

996
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:59,760
personnel got close to the object and
with the closer they got to it,

997
01:24:00,079 --> 01:24:02,640
thing moved out of the way.
It didn't fly out of the way,

998
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:08,000
It just moved away like a living
thing would just moved and didn't want to

999
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:13,680
be touched. Like WHOA, So
what are we dealing with here? There's

1000
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:20,079
a lot more to It's more than
just something that looks like a flying saucer

1001
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:26,920
or a dorito. There's something more
happening here, And for what it's worth,

1002
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:32,520
there's a big part of me now
that's thinking, maybe this is the

1003
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:42,840
reason why the governments of the world
haven't been entirely honest or totally transparent with

1004
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:48,279
the public about what's going on,
because maybe this is a little more serious

1005
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:54,239
than what most people would be able
to handle. I never used to think

1006
01:24:54,319 --> 01:24:58,159
that, you know, it's that
whole thing. Well with the public panic.

1007
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:01,520
I don't know if panic is the
right word, but well, is

1008
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:10,560
the public ready to be told what's
really behind the phenomenon? Do you think

1009
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:15,439
they do? You think they actually
know? I think that the governments of

1010
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:20,800
the world no more than they're saying
they are, probably no more than we

1011
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:26,720
do. Yes, yeah, but
I think that there could be a reason

1012
01:25:27,319 --> 01:25:34,720
why they're not saying anything more about
it, because because once one leader of

1013
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:40,279
some major country goes forward and says, oh, we're going to just release

1014
01:25:40,319 --> 01:25:43,960
this, well, then the cats
out of the bag, the Pandora's box

1015
01:25:44,039 --> 01:25:46,520
is open, and then what do
you do? Then? How do you

1016
01:25:47,279 --> 01:25:51,159
respond? How is it going to
affect religion? What does the Vatican think

1017
01:25:51,199 --> 01:25:57,800
about this? Why does the Vatican
have two different places where they have astronomical

1018
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:04,079
observatories and they have teams of Vatican
astronomers and quite amazing looking looking looking into

1019
01:26:04,079 --> 01:26:10,199
the heavens. What are you looking
for why? Yeah, come on,

1020
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:15,560
I mean someone's got to ask these
questions, and that's my job. It

1021
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:19,319
seems to me that I either had
someone or I spoke with someone one of

1022
01:26:19,319 --> 01:26:24,359
the astronomers at one time. I
don't think I had him on the show.

1023
01:26:24,399 --> 01:26:27,600
I think i'd remember that, but
I was trying to, I believe,

1024
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:30,600
which would be really fascinating. And
that's it somewhere in the United States,

1025
01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:36,560
that particular telescope Arizona. It's Arizona. Yeah, yeah, it's a

1026
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:45,159
Zona mountain in Arizona. I just
think it's all fascinating. I think that

1027
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:48,560
I'm going to have Colonel Chuck Holt
is going to be on my show on

1028
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:53,800
Thursday night. Yeah, he was
one of the primary witnesses at the Rendelshom

1029
01:26:54,319 --> 01:27:00,199
encounter in nineteen eighty and he's going
to talk about how he believes that there

1030
01:27:00,359 --> 01:27:04,920
is a slow disclosure going on.
And I'm going to say to him,

1031
01:27:05,079 --> 01:27:10,159
okay, but who's in charge of
how slow should this be? What will

1032
01:27:10,199 --> 01:27:15,600
determine when the slowness of it has
to stop? Great questions. I can't

1033
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,119
wait to watch that. I've had
Charles on a number of times, and

1034
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:23,359
yeah, I hope to have him
back. He's always he's always a great

1035
01:27:23,359 --> 01:27:27,600
guest. He's got a lot to
say, yes, and he doesn't mind

1036
01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:32,079
the controversy of what he has to
say, and I appreciate that. I

1037
01:27:32,119 --> 01:27:35,119
respect him for that. And he's
one of these people that wish had never

1038
01:27:35,199 --> 01:27:41,640
happened. Yeah, he's very sincere
about that. Yeah, so because if

1039
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:44,920
he didn't need it as a part
of his life, and he's told me

1040
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:48,000
that he's put it away for a
while sometimes, you know, kind of

1041
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:51,399
put it off so he didn't have
to deal with it. But it always

1042
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:55,760
he always comes back to it.
It always comes back to him. Actually,

1043
01:27:55,960 --> 01:28:00,079
he told me decades ago when we
first met. He said to me,

1044
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:03,079
all of that will tell you right
now is that when when the truth

1045
01:28:03,119 --> 01:28:08,319
finally comes out and the public is
told what's really going on, it's going

1046
01:28:08,359 --> 01:28:12,760
to change reality as we know it. And when he said that to me,

1047
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:15,159
I went, Okay, I accept
that, and that's a great way

1048
01:28:15,199 --> 01:28:19,119
to end this eve an interview with
him. But it was like, wow,

1049
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:26,000
and I believe that. I think
that it will change reality. And

1050
01:28:26,239 --> 01:28:30,680
maybe he's right that it'll have to
be it must be slow disclosure. But

1051
01:28:31,039 --> 01:28:34,279
on the other end of that,
what is it that they're going to disclose

1052
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:39,760
that requires it to happen slowly?
You know, I don't know yet.

1053
01:28:40,119 --> 01:28:45,000
Yeah, yeah, I think.
Also, someone said something like that,

1054
01:28:45,079 --> 01:28:48,000
and I'm trying to remember. Lou
Alesando said it's been happening, you know,

1055
01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:51,079
I mean, and I know you
have you recently I had a meeting

1056
01:28:51,119 --> 01:28:54,600
with him. Yeah, I know, you can't really talk about that,

1057
01:28:54,720 --> 01:29:01,079
but anyway, I think it's interesting
and I feel definitely that there's been a

1058
01:29:01,079 --> 01:29:04,520
lot of changes. And I've been
doing this for over ten years. In

1059
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:11,039
the last three years there's been some
major changes in the attitude. In general.

1060
01:29:11,079 --> 01:29:14,800
It's an easy talk to talk about
these days, nothing you want to

1061
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:19,159
worry too much about talking about and
being embarrassed about. And I like that.

1062
01:29:19,279 --> 01:29:24,319
I like that a lot because I
don't feel like the total odd uncle

1063
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:28,640
or whatever you want to say,
you know, the oddballum. And in

1064
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:32,359
a conversation, I've always thought of
you as my oddball uncle. Nephew,

1065
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:36,439
Oh, nephew, that's true,
that's right, That's why i'd be the

1066
01:29:36,560 --> 01:29:39,880
uncle. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, that's right. You're just a

1067
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:44,039
little older. Hey, Lee,
Um, so we're at the I told

1068
01:29:44,039 --> 01:29:45,880
you an hour and a half to
night and we're at the end of that.

1069
01:29:46,159 --> 01:29:50,199
And so how and did you say
halt is coming up this Thursday,

1070
01:29:50,319 --> 01:29:54,479
this Thursday night? All right,
so tell people how they can get a

1071
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:57,880
hold of that and watch that.
Okay, well it's going to be on

1072
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:02,840
UM. All they have to do
is go to nxnetwork dot com. It's

1073
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:11,079
un X network dot com. Uh. And if they do forward slash stream

1074
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:16,239
s t R E A M so
it's it's like unex network dot com forward

1075
01:30:16,279 --> 01:30:23,399
slash stream that will take them directly
to the page. That is the page

1076
01:30:23,399 --> 01:30:26,680
where you can just click on the
plate button and hear whatever is on the

1077
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:31,079
air live at that moment. Yeah. So it's seven o'clock, seven o'clock

1078
01:30:31,359 --> 01:30:35,760
from seven to eight thirty Thursday,
and that's seven to eight thirty Eastern time.

1079
01:30:36,199 --> 01:30:42,680
That's right, Lee. I've really
enjoyed our friendship over these years,

1080
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:46,079
as I always have fascinating guests.
I love having you on and I wish

1081
01:30:46,079 --> 01:30:50,079
you all all the best, and
please do let us know when and how

1082
01:30:50,119 --> 01:30:54,720
that album will be available. I
will definitely get the word out there.

1083
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:58,439
Thank you, Thank you so much
for having me on tonight. I love

1084
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:00,880
talking about this stuff. Yes you
do. I hope I don't come across

1085
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:06,159
like like an oddball relative. No, no, I don't think I'll get

1086
01:31:06,159 --> 01:31:10,840
that feedback. No, but anyway, all my best to you, and

1087
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:13,640
thank you so much. Thank you, thank you Martin. All right,

1088
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:17,199
take care right, all right?
Everyone, So again next week we will

1089
01:31:17,239 --> 01:31:24,760
have let's see Frank Marches he's the
senior planetary astronomer at the SETI Institute.

1090
01:31:25,039 --> 01:31:28,880
Again, the start time is going
to be seven as it was tonight.

1091
01:31:29,079 --> 01:31:32,600
And thank you all for watching.
And anyone can support the show, and

1092
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:38,720
that's over at podcast ufo dot com
to support the show, and I would

1093
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:43,159
appreciate that, and do appreciate all
the listeners and I appreciate everyone that does

1094
01:31:43,199 --> 01:31:45,600
support the show. And we'll see
you next week. Remember to keep your

1095
01:31:45,640 --> 01:32:00,640
eyes to the sky.