WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:05.080 A fundamentalist preacher turned to Oklahoma State senators on a mission to enforce his extreme 2 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:11.000 Christian nationalists beliefs through legislation. Dusty Devers wants to outlaw porn, criminalize abortion 3 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:15.960 as homicide, and eliminate no fault divorce. Devers sees government as a tool 4 00:00:16.000 --> 00:00:21.679 to enforce God's will and view society as divided between Christian and Satanic forces. 5 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:26.839 He aims to impose his moral values on others, even proposing felony charges for 6 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:31.960 peorn viewers. Devers radical views have gained national attention, highlighting the threat Christian 7 00:00:32.039 --> 00:00:38.240 nationalism poses to democracy. Despite criticism, he remains unapologetic, claiming to act 8 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:43.000 in accordance with Oklahoma Republican's will. This story is from Rolling Stone by Tim 9 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:47.600 Dickinson on February second, twenty twenty four. Jonathan, why don't you start 10 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:51.320 us? I'm sorry, infidel. Let's go to infidel first. Start us 11 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:54.240 off with this one. One of the first things that struck me with this 12 00:00:54.439 --> 00:00:59.880 article was that Dusty Devers believes, and I quote that the government should tear 13 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.840 arise evildoers. Now, for me, that just sounds like an admission that 14 00:01:03.879 --> 00:01:08.920 you're a terrorist. Starting off the top. I mean, according to him, 15 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:15.480 government's sole purpose is to promote what is good in accordance with the will 16 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:18.920 of God. And as you mentioned, Scott, you know, he thinks 17 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:22.040 that, you know, porn, it should be a viewing porn should be 18 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:26.120 a felony up to twenty years and wanted a bounty system similar to what we 19 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:30.760 have here in Texas. Horribly so on the abortion issue. He wants his 20 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:36.599 neighbors to be reporting their neighbors about, you know, their porn viewing habits. 21 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:42.560 And I couldn't help but think how invasive is this for anyone to think 22 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:47.079 that not only is it we got to peek under the stall to see what 23 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:49.519 you look like when you're in the bathroom, but now we've got to peek 24 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:55.159 through your windows so we can tell on you when you're watching porn. It 25 00:01:55.400 --> 00:02:01.519 just absolutely boggles my mind that this person could not only be elected but stay 26 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:06.760 there because I had to check. I was just curious, is this guy 27 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:09.240 married? Does does he have kids? And yes, he has six or 28 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:14.800 seven kids and he's married. And my next thought was poor missus Devers. 29 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:23.639 But yes, absolutely, and you know, and even wants to criminalize sexting 30 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:28.879 except between spouses, And I'm like, you're going to say that words that 31 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:34.199 people tight to each other consensually is as bad as porn, that you should 32 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:38.719 I mean, I don't have and I'm not making a judgment on porn, 33 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:44.039 but I understand that there are certain groups of people who have an uptight mentality 34 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:46.960 towards the topic. But are you Jesus Christ, are you kidding me? 35 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:53.000 You know, even sexting and eliminating no fault divorce. I just couldn't help 36 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:58.759 but think how anti women all of his policies seem to boil down to abortion 37 00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:02.400 being homicide. Once we lock you down into a marriage, you're stuck and 38 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:08.439 you got to stay. It's amazing that this passes for reasonable thought anywhere, 39 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:13.680 even in Oklahoma. You know, I guess I've grown accustomed to hearing this 40 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:16.680 type of behavior and these type of things from people in Florida and here in 41 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:22.719 Texas. I knew Oklahoma was bad, but I didn't know they were going 42 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:25.479 to try to become a subsidiary of Texas or Florida. And with that in 43 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:31.120 mind, I can only hope that people's eyes are open and realize just how 44 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:39.759 absolutely unreasonable, unhinged and incredibly invasive. Doing something like this would be I 45 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:45.479 have no idea how you would stop people from watching porn, but since this 46 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:49.120 is all cutting into my porn time, I figured I'll go ahead and pass 47 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:52.319 this over to you, Jonathan and see what you have to say about this. 48 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:58.759 When you get done with yours, you can send it to mainly before 49 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:03.240 it becomes a felony. Said it over the internet, right. I don't 50 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:08.360 know where to start with this pos and you can use your imagination on the 51 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:15.240 term. I'm getting really tired of trying to people trying to sell me a 52 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:20.000 bill of goods that really actually attempts to harm and criminalize normal human rights, 53 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:26.879 seeing government as a means to coerce the public into their dystopian desires of a 54 00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.399 discat dictatorship of Christ. I got news, buddy, Christ don't exist. 55 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:34.839 So you know, mellow out, you know, take a chill pill. 56 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:43.120 I have some I could recommend to you. But there is unceasingly an attempt 57 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:47.199 to victimize and demonize already marginalized people. They wouldn't do it on a majority. 58 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:51.279 They have to attack a minority, some small group of people who aren't 59 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:58.959 doing anything to harm you or society and demon demonize them all for this fantasy 60 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:01.680 attachment to the chair. He picked words of a book of fables from the 61 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:09.720 Mid East Bronze Age, ostensibly written compiled in Bibelos and Lebanon about seventeen to 62 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:17.199 fifteen seventeen to maybe nineteen hundred years ago, and before that passed for hundreds 63 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:21.639 of years like a game of telephone, so before it was ever written down. 64 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:27.600 And this they think is what they think is a holy thing and is 65 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:33.639 absolutely worth trading in all the liberty, rights and equality we've gained in the 66 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:39.720 last two centuries. So I'm like Dusty Divers loudly shouts the quiet part. 67 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:44.319 He wants that. He wants legislate what where, and what you when you 68 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:48.000 believe. To him, the government should be used whatever force necessary to uphold 69 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:55.279 his draconian Dark Age mythology. Women should be persecuted, prosecuted, even face 70 00:05:55.360 --> 00:06:00.759 the death penalty for losing a baby or even having a miscarriage. How fucking 71 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:04.000 bad is that? Pardon my language, but damn, you know where does 72 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:09.319 this guy get from that? You know, he's a deranged individual. He's 73 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:14.279 even hated by mainstream pro lifers. You have to be really, really bad 74 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:17.199 to get those people afraid of you, you will poison their movement. So 75 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:24.199 the maniac sees the world as a battleground of righteous Christians, only righteous if 76 00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:27.519 they agree with him, of course, on all things, and against everything 77 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:30.560 else, I mean everything. If you're not part of that, then you're 78 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:33.040 evil and need to be destroyed, including the country if possible. This is 79 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:40.800 beyond anti democracy, anti American, anti republicanism. It's anti everything we stand 80 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:44.680 for and a lot of people who died to support it and to keep it. 81 00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:49.079 So as there's no doubt in my military mind, this guy is a 82 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:56.759 total idiot. We need to better Civics education in school and a mandatory class 83 00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:00.399 in the history of the separation of religion and government. And that would mean 84 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:05.560 getting into the letters of people like Madison and that and telling them some of 85 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:11.639 the other literature that said that displays the mind of the founders. They just 86 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:17.560 left religious wars in the country they came from that killed thousands and thousands of 87 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:21.759 people, and they were trying to prevent that by saying you can't have a 88 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:27.000 religious government, it has to be secular. So anyway, if you think 89 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.000 differently than that, you are dead wrong. Not only that you've been lied 90 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:33.759 to a lot. Start digging into the actual history and you'll find out what's 91 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:40.759 really going on. I know you won't, but just friendly advice, educate 92 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:46.319 yourself free of charge, free of charge, and the immortal words of an 93 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:50.800 MMA coach. I know. Fuck this guy, of course would add, 94 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:56.519 and not in a good way, you know. So you know that's Scott. 95 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:59.360 I'm getting vulgar. You might want to take this from me. That's 96 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.480 to follow there, and so I'm gonna have to crank it up a notch 97 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:05.360 from the vulgarity. So if you'll turn with me and your Bibles to the 98 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:11.720 Book of Proverbs thirteen, verse twenty four, which says those who spare the 99 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:16.079 rod hate their children, but those who love them are diligent to discipline them. 100 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:20.519 And Dusty Devers wants to be that rod. He wants to be the 101 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:26.879 shaft that's shoved in and around the face area of America, or perhaps smuggled 102 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.800 in through the back door of the legislative process. When we think of horrible 103 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:33.120 pricks, Dusty Deaver wants to be damn sure that we think of him. 104 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.879 And I tell you he's off to a great start. So in our last 105 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:41.919 segment for this week we talked about the dangers of Christian nationalism. Well, 106 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:43.039 here it is. I mean, this is what we're talking about. This 107 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:46.840 is what we're looking at. This is what it looks like. This is 108 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.360 what the end of that particular Well, geez, I hope it doesn't get 109 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:52.320 worse than that, but you know, this is what's happening. Okay. 110 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:56.879 He wants to put people in jail for watching porn. By the way, 111 00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:00.639 infidel with your admission there, I think he just won me to ten thousand 112 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:05.200 bucks, but I'll have to double check on the jurisdiction there. He wants 113 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:07.879 to punish anybody that's involved with an abortion. He wants to force people to 114 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:11.840 stay married against their will. He wants to and this was good too. 115 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:16.399 He wants to enact what he calls an eye for an eye punishment for people 116 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:22.159 filing false police reports, meaning that he wants the accusers to receive the same 117 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:26.919 punishment as the crime for which they're making the accusation. I don't know this, 118 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:31.799 but I wonder if he happens to have a personal stake in that particular 119 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:35.279 one. But anyway, for him, obviously, it's not about justice or 120 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:39.799 fairness or rehabilitation or any of that stuff. For him, it's all about 121 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:43.879 inflicting pain via punishment. And he said he believes we talked about this already. 122 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:48.679 He believes the role of government is to protect innocent people and to punish 123 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.919 and terrorize evildoers. The suffering is the point to him. So I want 124 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.879 to hold this guy up as a warning to Christians. This is the kind 125 00:09:56.919 --> 00:10:01.559 of thing that your belief supports. I know I say this often when I'm 126 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:07.679 on the show, but it's that it's those liberal Christians, the followers of 127 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:09.480 Christ, the you know, whatever you want to call it, the softer, 128 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:15.679 lovey dovey Christianity. You're providing shelter for this kind of belief if you 129 00:10:15.879 --> 00:10:22.080 engage, if you endorse irrational beliefs in your philosophy, then you are giving 130 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:26.879 tacit approval for other people who have irrational beliefs, and they're not maybe not 131 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:28.720 going to be quite so nice as you are. Now. I don't know 132 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:33.000 how else we can say this does. If it doesn't persuade you, then 133 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:37.000 I don't know what does you know? It's hard to it's hard to imagine 134 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:43.279 what it would take to demonstrate the endgame, the results, the consequences, 135 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:48.879 of this kind of of accepting this type of belief. The article used this 136 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:52.080 word to describe divers and I thought it was really cool. It was Manichean. 137 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:56.559 Manichean. I had to look it up. It refers to anything related 138 00:10:56.559 --> 00:11:01.159 to Manicheism, which is a dualistic religion that combined Zoroastrian, Christian, Gnostic, 139 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:05.360 and other beliefs in a theology of a cosmic struggle between good and evil. 140 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:09.039 So he sees himself as a general in the army of God. And 141 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:13.320 you can't get more black and white than that from the article here. This 142 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:18.799 is a quote from the article. Devers embodies a threat that experts believe Christian 143 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:24.279 nationalism poses to democracy by literally demonizing his opponents and casting compromises moral corruption. 144 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:30.759 That's key there. In his eyes, compromise is moral corruption. His intent, 145 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.519 he's said, is to steer society away from the judgment that we deserve, 146 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:37.840 warning that otherwise the country will suffer not just from the effects of bad 147 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:43.519 policy and wicked rulers, but under the judgment of God. Brad Onishi, 148 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:48.679 author of an extremist History of a Christian Nation, recently described in an interview 149 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:52.600 with Rolling Stone. If you're a person who is convinced that the United States 150 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.600 is under threat by a Luciferian regime compromised, and here he hits all the 151 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:03.200 buzzwords here comprised of a Marxist, globalist, secularists, feminists, the LGBTQ 152 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:07.399 community, and so on. Democracy is not your sacred value. That's it 153 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:11.320 right there. Democracy is not the sacred value here, Infidel. Do you 154 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:15.600 have anything to add to that. I've got plenty to add. All right, 155 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:18.919 let's hear it. Let's hear it. Preach to us. I don't 156 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:26.000 think that Dusty believes in the American form of government. I think that's quite 157 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.240 clear. What he wants is something else, and I think that is something 158 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:35.200 that's very important for those people that we've talked about previously who they become radicalized 159 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:43.039 and they have this view that when Christianity comes to power and we do what 160 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:46.320 God wants us to do, in their mind, what God wants them to 161 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:52.120 do is what they believe is right, and that varies according to individual. 162 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:56.000 You can't even find ten people in the same church who are going to necessarily 163 00:12:56.039 --> 00:13:00.320 agree where those lines are. So when you start allowing someone to make those 164 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.720 decisions to decide what is right and wrong. What you're doing is you're setting 165 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:07.440 yourself up. You know, I don't know how many you have ever seen 166 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:11.399 Handmaid's Tail, but I've got a sneak in suspicion that there's going to be 167 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:16.240 more than a few people with missing fingers are hanging up on the wall if 168 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.399 this ever were to come to fruition, because they're not Christian enough. And 169 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:24.879 the truth is is that we've seen this time and again. Christians are savage 170 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:30.120 towards non Christians, but they can be really savage towards the ones that are 171 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:33.919 their brothers and sisters. Supposedly they can really take into the cleaners. So 172 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:39.320 they need to be more careful than we are because we're already labeled we're no 173 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:43.639 good, we're bad. But when the people who are supposedly on your side 174 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:48.399 betray you, that's even worse in their mind. So be careful what you 175 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:52.440 look for. And one other thing I wanted to point out is that time 176 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:58.159 and again we hear about people who rally against LGBTQ and we find out that 177 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:03.399 they've been, you know, having relationship same sex relationships, and we're all 178 00:14:03.440 --> 00:14:07.440 shocked. This is what happened. We sear people talking about all these things, 179 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:11.039 and we read about, you know, pastors who are sexually abusing and 180 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:16.080 assaulting people in their church. This isn't something new, and so I have 181 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:20.240 to wonder how long is it before we see Dusty Deb's porn hub account and 182 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:24.720 really find out what's going on? Because the truth is is that when I 183 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:28.279 was a believer, and I was growing up in a very conservative sect, 184 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:35.000 we would go to these different churches and we'd hear these preachers rail against fornication 185 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:41.519 and adultery and homosexuality and all these things they would just completely obsess over. 186 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:46.679 And then five, ten, fifteen years later you find out guess what, 187 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:50.480 and he just screams against things a bit too much. Now he may be 188 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:54.200 a true believer, he may be the real deal, because there are those 189 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:58.120 two. But if he is, I can assure you one thing, he 190 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:03.679 should never do any inside the political realm, because I don't see how in 191 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:07.960 good faith he could take that oath of office and declare to uphold the constitution 192 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:15.000 of this country because what he is standing for is completely opposed to what this 193 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.759 country stands for. You don't believe, you don't want to view porn, 194 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:22.919 then don't view porn. You don't think people should have abortions, well, 195 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.240 don't have abortions. You don't believe in same sex relationships, then don't have 196 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:31.120 one. Those are all choices you can make if those are things that you 197 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:35.639 believe you shouldn't do. But when you start crossing in and telling other people 198 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:41.519 that you can't do this and call yourself an American claim to uphold the constitution 199 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:45.519 of this country, that is what you call And I'm going to be very 200 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:48.919 tactful here. That's what you call a liar now. Having said that, 201 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:54.840 take us away, Jonathan, Oh gee, I me. He thinks he 202 00:15:54.879 --> 00:16:00.600 does protest too much. You think you think, and I don't mean you 203 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:08.039 in Fidel. Yeah, there's something about Christian nationalism. I think that the 204 00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:15.159 Christian nationalists may not realize. And I actually remember this from one of the 205 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.720 rallies they had, and one of the preachers, similar to Devers, got 206 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:26.559 up and railed against the Catholic Church. And the next person was General Flynn. 207 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.120 He's a Catholic and he says, I'm a proud Catholic. So you 208 00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:33.240 can see, you can start seeing the cracks in this already. Like I 209 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:40.480 said, the Founders escaped warfare religious warfare. And now you know, if 210 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:44.120 one of these people, you know, six out of nine on the Supreme 211 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:49.399 Quarter Catholic, if this religious group manages to take power, we're going to 212 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:53.919 have another set of religious wars. It's not about all us people getting our 213 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:59.000 right steped on. It'll be about how much they can kill each other in 214 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:03.159 very gruesome way. And they'll be killing each other, you know, And 215 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:11.640 that's something that's worthy of avoiding by not trying to push your particular version of 216 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:17.519 morality or reality, which isn't reality, but it's you know, your particular 217 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:22.880 fantasy of what life should be like on the rest of the religious world, 218 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:26.680 I mean, or US atheists. But you start pushing that shit, and 219 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:33.839 what happens is you get pushed back and the other side is just as just 220 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:37.960 as adamant as you that they're right. So your guy's going to get into 221 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:41.079 a very nasty mix up. Just take a look at the eleventh through the 222 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:47.480 sixteenth century and well, you know, in European history, okay, and 223 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:51.839 you'll see that there were over I think the ones I know about, there 224 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:55.680 were thirty two crusades. And it's not just the Holy Land, it's Eastern 225 00:17:55.720 --> 00:18:03.200 Europe it's Germany, it's all sorts of places, and they just flat raped 226 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:07.359 and murdered their way into Christianity. And you're going to see that happen once. 227 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:14.359 Martin Luther in fifteen hundred or so and Protestantism. Look at all the 228 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:18.720 hundreds of thousands of people who were murdered with them, and think about that 229 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.279 and alls it. It proved was that nobody was right. And that's what 230 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:26.640 I wanted to say about that. And again he does protest too much, 231 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:33.279 so he might start pinging on my gatar if he keeps doing that. Well, 232 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:34.680 let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Do you 233 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:40.079 think this guy, this Dusty Devers, do you think he was inevitable? 234 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:44.440 Do you think it was inevitable that this? Is this a product of human 235 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:48.480 nature? Is this a product Were there specific things in history that happened that 236 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:52.599 kind of guided us down this path here? Or do you what do you 237 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:56.039 think, Infidel? Do you think this was bound to happen eventually? Calvin? 238 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:03.960 I think that it is absolutely inevitable. When you start moving that line 239 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:10.640 away from freedom and start going in the method of fascism, it becomes a 240 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:18.799 one up because things that were once completely unreasonable that you knew were absolutely unhinged, 241 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:26.359 become reasonable now because in the backdrop of the whole anti LGBTQ scenario, 242 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:33.079 the whole anti women's rights fiasco, all these things, I think have emboldened 243 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.759 them to the point where all the other things that they used to whisper among 244 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:41.279 themselves and their echo chambers. That's what we're starting to see bubble out because 245 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:45.160 I don't know if you remember this, but you know, thirty years ago 246 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:48.279 or actually more than that, forty years ago, I'm old. I remember 247 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:53.720 my dad getting these things from what was Perkins Group, and you know, 248 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:56.000 they used to go out there and stand out in front of you know, 249 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:03.079 seventy elevens and things, protesting adult magazines behind the counter, and that kind 250 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.400 of faded away. With the advent of the Internet and things like that. 251 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:08.519 People have kind of, you know, moved away, but I don't think 252 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:12.640 that the viewpoint that was behind it ever went away. And that is exactly 253 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:17.799 what we're seeing here. We're seeing those people who who you know, they 254 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:19.839 don't have a they don't have to stand in front of abortion clinics because they've 255 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:25.319 already criminalized that, and they think they're winning every other debate, and I 256 00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:27.599 think they're saying, Okay, let's go on to new territory, let's find 257 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:33.559 a new thing that we can ran about that will get attention and get me 258 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:37.759 elected. And I don't think they care about the consequences. I think the 259 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:45.400 consequences are completely inconsequential to them. Jonathan, again, an answer question, 260 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:48.279 answer my question. Do you think this was inevitable or do you think there 261 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:52.880 was specific things in history that kind of led us this way or was it 262 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.920 just a product of human nature. I think that it's a I don't think 263 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:02.640 it's human nature. I think it's a product of society in general. And 264 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:08.839 I also think that it's inevitable. When people become convinced that they're being downtrodden, 265 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:14.039 they have several reactions they can take. A lot of them turn to 266 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:19.000 religion, and sometimes they turn to the most extreme form of it, and 267 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:25.160 you know, like death cults, like the resurrection shit, you know, 268 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:30.000 or the ones where they fall into we need to take over the government so 269 00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:36.240 that we can stop being you know, this oppressed quote unquote group, which 270 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:40.319 is not true. Christians are not oppressed in this country. They are in 271 00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.519 charge of this country. So you know, I'm kind of sure about that. 272 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:45.200 Are you sure about that? Because because you know, they have to 273 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:51.039 sell cakes to gay couples, right, yeah, that is bad. Yeah 274 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:55.240 yeah, well yeah, that's a whole other thing that we've done before on 275 00:21:55.319 --> 00:22:00.519 here. But I'm just thinking to myself that, yeah, it's an inevitable 276 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:07.720 this is going to evolve out of a complex society and Alvin Toffler's future shock. 277 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:12.519 Add that to a religious upbringing, and they have to get more extreme. 278 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:18.319 As we said in the last article, they're getting hardened, meaning they 279 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.480 have to get more and more extreme because they're losing ground every year. And 280 00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:29.240 they may not know this, but unconsciously they feel it happening, and they 281 00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:33.319 know that their culture what they want it to be, because it never was 282 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:37.799 the real culture, but their fantasy or what the culture is is diminishing and 283 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:41.519 fading away, not fast enough, but hopefully before they do any real damage. 284 00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.720 All right, Well, that's a great place for us to end this 285 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.400 conversation. I appreciate everything that both of you had to contribute.