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Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your host,

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and we have a great show with
you. You know, I just bought

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a brand new, pretty expensive pad. It's called something Pad from Apple for

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my Mac and it just a Bluetooth. It just froze when I'm trying to

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start the show here, so I
apologize for those listening live. My name

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is Martin Willis, I'm your host, and our guest this evening is longtime

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UFO researcher Nigel Watson. He's from
the UK, staying up late tonight to

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discuss his new book Captured by Aliens, History and Analysis of American Abduction Claims,

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and he's going to be talking about
much more. He has other books.

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He's been around, like I say, a long time since all the

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way back in the nineteen seventies,
and so it will be I'm saying,

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he's been researching the topic that is
since then, so it'll be great to

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talk to him about all of that. Hey, guess what I have al

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Jandro Rojas coming up for a few
minutes and after I get done chatting away

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here. And first of all,
I have to say that I am happy

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that I've actually sold some paintings to
some of my listeners. I had three

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UFO Triangle UFO paintings and they actually
sold off onto Triangle destinations, one to

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New York bill that helps out with
the show. Another Triangle went up to

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Iceland, and the other ones on
the way to the UK. So I'm

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actually working on underwater USO painting two
usos underwater going one going into a cave.

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I know that sounds pretty mysterious,
doesn't doesn't it. I'm going to

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try to make that look pretty interesting. So my art website banner is on

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and that's Martin Willis art dot com
by the way, and that's actually on

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the sidebar of podcast ufo dot com. So while you're over there, you

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can check out this week's blog by
Charles Lear and the name of that is

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Leonard Stringfield and the UFO Vortex.
Also, while you're there, there's a

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link to our Facebook page. You
can check that out. There's twenty some

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one thousand people active on the Facebook
page, and Peggy helps with that puts

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new stories up just about every single
day, space related or UFO related.

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So I encourage you to click like
on that page. Anyone can support the

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show, and I really do want
to thank each and every one of you

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that help out. We are on
Patreon and that link is found also on

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our website. And thanks to anyone
that listens to the show. Of course,

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I don't want to be talking to
myself. It's believe me, it's

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not pretty. So thank you all
for listening. I really do appreciate it.

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And for right now, we're going
to bring in the one and only

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Alejandro Rojas and let me just bring
him on in. Alejandro, how are

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you? Whoops, I'm not hearing
you, man, we can't hear you.

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Oh you can't hear me. Thank
you very much. Yeah, you

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really like to add just a little
bit of stress, don't you, buddy.

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I gotta mess with you a little
bit. Yeah, I know.

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That's what I had someone write me
from actually San Rafell, California, and

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I'll say hi to Sarah out there, and I used to live in San

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Rafell and she listens to the show
and she said, I really enjoyed Alejandro

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picking on you. I believe it
was her. It was either her or

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someone else. So yeah, you
do a pretty good job at that.

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It's pretty fun. Sorry, buddy, but that's all right. I'll get

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you half man and you do get
me every once in a while. Yeah,

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So anyway, what's going on.
I would like to make an announcement

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that involves us. I'm helping you
out with your show. Your back your

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podcast every week so and it's it's
kind of long form. It's not the

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old you know, twenty five minutes
or whatever it used to be. Now

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where we go like almost an hour
sometimes, right, yeah, you're on

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longer. So essentially what I'm doing
is for those of you who missed the

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podcast and did not realize that the
podcast is back. Open Mind UFO Radio

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is back. But essentially I'm doing
it. You know, I'm like Martin.

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Martin convinced me that I need to
charge people. He's always told me

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I'll give those people so much free
stuff. Just kidding, but he has

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you know, we do often talk
how do we afford this and how do

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we keep going doing this stuff when
it's so expensive and difficult. So I

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have begun to charge for something.
So the Friday newscast where I have go

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over the news of the week is
Open Mind UFO Radio, and I have

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a guest with me, usually Martin. At least last time it was I

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had least be going but hopefully,
Yeah, Martin, if you could do

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Friday, we could do that again. Yeah, we'll talk about it after

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see how would you do the rust
of tonight? So so that's what's going

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on with that. But then I
also have the Rojas Report, and that's

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where I do my interviews, I
share analysis and or do reports. So

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for example, tonight, actually at
seven pm, I'm doing a report on

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Spilberg and UFOs, although this is
going to be for Phoenix move On,

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so this is going to be shared
for free to everybody. So if you

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can make it, you can do
that at the open Mind YouTube page or

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at the Phoenix move On Facebook page. I'll be streaming that otherwise. I've

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had Brian Bender from Politico. I've
had Colonel John Alexander. I've had Chris

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Mellon to the Stars, pretty much, the man of the hour, the

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guy who essentially, I think probably
had the biggest role. I think that

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undoubtedly had the biggest role in getting
the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence to request

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from various different intelligence agencies a UAP
report, and in doing so, essentially

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revealed that there is a UAP task
force that consists of many different intelligence agencies

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looking into the UAP situation. So
I was very lucky to get that interview

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with Chris Mellen. I wrote a
Den of Geek article focused on how Unidentified

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season two is coming up, and
of course I started this weekend, but

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also about the influence that the Unidentified
television show had on getting that Senate decision

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request reporting request done so and what
rule you know season two will have which

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it will have a role. Essentially, Chris Mellen had a whole strategy here

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that season one and season two play
heavily into the show. So yeah,

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that's essentially. I've got lots of
great interviews. I should have luon and

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if you're a member of my Patreon, you can join live and ask lu

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Alisando questions. So we're scheduling that
now. Hopefully that'll be this week,

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but it might be next As soon
as we can't I can get that nailed

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down, we'll let you know.
But otherwise, you I've got a lot

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of great interviews and analysis coming up. You know, I made the mistake

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of going on Facebook. I don't
think I'm gonna do that as much,

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but anyway, I went on in
one of the groups and someone wrote I

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think was Kurt Kurt Collins wrote something
like, hey, so what everyone think

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of episode one, season two of
Unidentified And I wrote I loved it because

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I did love it, and um, I think I wrote something like what's

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not to like about it? And
you can't believe the negatives of people are

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saying like, hey, we just
want to see, you know, real

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new videos, and you know,
what's up with that? We need to

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see the real videos. And one
other person said it was a dud.

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Um, you know, unless my
senses are completely wrong, I thought it

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was a great show because the first
time stories the production was really high production

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value. So anyway, that's kind
of just my thought. I agree on

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everything that you just said. There. There have been a couple of people

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who are in the field who kind
of who I respect, who have had

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the criticism that, you know,
we don't need to see clips and bits

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from the Nimitz events. Again,
we're aware of it. But I think

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at first of all, they're building
on that, you know, they're building

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on this investigation. That is kind
of the backbone of this investigation is what

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happened with Nimitz and the tic tac
UFOs. So that's why that plays a

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part and we have to remember,
you know, it's something that I do

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on my show and I do here
with you. It's every time we mentioned

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something, a case or something.
I try to remember to also give the

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background for many of our listeners who
have heard these stories in a boring to

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them because they're like, I know
what Randalls from Forrest is, I know

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what you know this or that is. But of course there's so many new

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people coming into all of this.
That's why we need to explain it all.

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And so I don't mind that so
much. I can see how people

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familiar with the Nimitz situation would get
forward with seeing that over and over again.

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But that's only real criticism I've heard
from some of the old timers or

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some of the people that didn't love
it, like you and I. But

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you know, when you go on
social media, there's always going to be

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so much hate and nobody's going to
be satisfied. So I think that people

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don't appreciate how difficult I mean.
There's a whole history on how those videos

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got out, and essentially came down
to luck that they were released when they

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weren't supposed to be, not by
Elizondo. He got permission, but who

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we got permission from didn't follow all
the steps. So imagine where we would

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have been if we didn't have those
videos in the public. Yeah, did

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you hear is this a rumor that
those that at least one of the videos

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came out in Germany from a private
contractor or something? Did you hear about

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that didn't come out in Germany?
What had happened was when the video came

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out, there was someone it ended
up. You know, one of the

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places where it was house was erver
for German company that does filmwork, including

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some CGI stuff. Some doubt,
but really it seems as though, and

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the consensuses and this seems accurate,
that it was someone who worked for that

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company who downloaded that video and put
it on their public FTP server. So

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really, they say a lot of
people had access to this FTP server that

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they offered for people to use their
clients or you know, to share files

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back and forth. So it wasn't
surprising to them that, you know,

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they don't they weren't aware that that
filed was there. They weren't sure if

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it was a previous employee that had
put it there or who had put it

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there. But the owners of the
company were not aware that it was even

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on their servers and the In fact, we have an article on open Minds

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from a German researcher who spoke with
that company, and others who have followed

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up on that have found the same
thing. So that was a controversy about

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that part. However, you know, it first appeared on above top Secret

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the forum, and it seems that
someone who had access to actually went on

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board probably the Princeton or one of
the aircraft or the ships that had that

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in their computers and downloaded that accessed
it. So the process of accessing and

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downloading at and sharing it publicly is
certainly, you know, something that wasn't

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supposed to have been done. But
it doesn't appear as though there's an ongoing

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investigation. There could be, so
I'm not sure if that person will get

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in trouble. I've heard that the
cases closed, they're not sure who shared

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it and they're going to leave it
at that. But yeah, okay,

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one thing I did want to mention
to everybody from last week, and that

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is, as you know, I
was speaking with Don Schmidt and all of

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a sudden he vanished, He just
like vanished in his phone. When I

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dialed it during a break. It
came up that the number was not a

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working number. Well, and then
so I tried everything to reach him,

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and the next day he sent me
an email. He did respond to me,

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but it went to my spam box
some one thing after another. But

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anyway, Don is doing just fine. I just wanted to tell everyone what

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happened was live during it was a
hot day where he lives, and live

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during the show, lightning struck a
transformer down the road from him. His

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phone and everything is hooked into this
to his WiFi and all that. So

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he lost everything until the next morning
and couldn't couldn't communicate with anybody. So

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Don is fine, and I invited
him to come back on by himself.

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He's coming back on the twenty eighth
up in a few weeks. So I

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just wanted to make sure because people
were very concerned. Of course. Yeah,

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it's like some people in the chat, we're afraid he was abducted.

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Yeah, that came up quite a
bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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that's pretty funny. All right,
alle hundred, Well all right, well

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I'll be talking to you this Friday
on your okay. So yeah, and

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if I could share one more thing, you've got something else that you'll be

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participating in that you always participate in, which is great. I've got to

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mention this for my significant other,
which is that the UFO Congress UFO congress

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dot com. The registration for tickets
is open. It'll be a live stream

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event, so you'll be safe at
home. But the tool that we're going

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to be using. Once you go
get your tickets, you're going to be

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able to enter this tool and kind
of see all this really cool functionality where

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you can communicate and have these forms
and group chats with other people and all

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of this sort of thing. But
of course you can also see the excellent

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lineup that is forming. In fact, the lineup will be completed here very

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soon, but you'll see most of
the speakers up there, so really cool.

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So UFO Congress dot Com to check
that out, to go get your

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tickets to be sure to join us, but also to see all of the

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people who will be speaking, and
there are some really good ones. Okay,

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I do have to just gently address
something, just just real quickly,

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because I've got so much response about
this. Something terrible did happen involving a

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member of move On, and I'm
not going to discuss it. That's all

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I'm gonna say live right now.
I don't want to give it any airtime.

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It's terrible and I'm just going to
leave it at that, but i

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just want everyone in the chat to
know that I'm not going to discuss it.

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So anyway, Alejandro, thank you
so much, and to leave on

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a good note. Thank you,
and I'll be looking forward to talking to

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you this coming Friday. As always, it's always a lot of fun.

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Thank you so much. Calculator,
all right, you bet take care.

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All right, everyone, So our
guest of this evening, we have Nigel

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Watson, and like I said before, he's a long time UFO investigator all

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the way back. He's been investigating
sightings all the way back into the nineteen

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seventies, and he's published our articles
in the Fourteen Times, Fate, Flying

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Saucer Review, Magnonia, Magonia,
and UFO Magazine. And also he's the

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author of a book we're going to
be talking about this evening, and the

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name of that book is called Captured
by Aliens. History and Analysis of American

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Abduction Claims. And of course we'll
be discussing much more. Nigel, Welcome

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to the show. Hello, Yes, what time is it there? Twenty

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first eleven that night, so it's
not that bad. Yeah. I always

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get a kick out when people do
coast to coast and they're in England.

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It's like, you know, four
o'clock in the morning or something like that.

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Terrible. Yeah, yeah, I
did on the other week and it

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was like three am in the mornings
to bed before or after the event.

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Oh geez. Yeah. Yeah,
But thank you for being willing to you

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know, be on uh. And
you have a reputation of someone that does

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some really good research over the years. So I want to ask you,

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after bat, what made you decide
to write this book on American abductions?

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Um, mainly because it was a
switch that came up from the nineteen eighties

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with Bud Hopkins and Jay Comes some
people like about to wrote best selling books

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about alien abductions, and we always
subject took off in popular in my nation

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as well, with the X Files
being very popular, and I kind of

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was more of an observer of those
investigations and things going on, and it

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was only in the last sort of
ten or fifteen years I thought it would

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be worth looking back at how that
research came about and what relevance it is

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today and so captured by aliens is
something that sort of started on quite a

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long time ago, and I just
started off with a few notes and observations

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about it. The most intriguing thing
about it is most of a major events

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in uthology always seem to grow in
the United States. You know, you've

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got ross well and even rendered from
forest and those US military personnel. So

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you know, that's what made me
so I think it'd be great to look

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back at abduction research after you know, the dust that settled basically, yeah,

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I know, well, getting a
little bit of feedback coming through.

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Um, I know there's the Warminster
Um I used to be called the Warminster

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Monster or something like that, but
womin thing a thing, that's what it

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was. Yeah, but there I've
talked to a number of people in the

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UK and they say that, you
know, there aren't as many sightings in

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particular because of the weather. You
know, I mean, is that does

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that play a key factor in your
opinion? Well, where I live in

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Plymouth, whether it can be very
changeable. It can be sunny of a

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morning, raining, the evening sunny
again you know an hour or two later.

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Um, so I suppose whether conditions
can be very variable. Um At

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one Minster's a brilliant place because there's
so many hilltops nearby, and Cradle Hill

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was the most popular site for people
to go to look at UFOs mainly.

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The saw came about in nineteen sixties
something at nineteen sixty five, I think

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was the year it all kicked off. And when you know, it was

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easy to go up this lane and
then go over as off five bar Gate

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and up a little track, and
at its peak, I think a few

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hundred people went there. I saw. I went there in the early seventies

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when it got a lot quieter,
and so it seems like I always turn

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up a few years late, really, but you know, there were still

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quite a few interesting people about you
could speak to and reminisce about what happened

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there. And we um, we
went up there and we sell a few

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strange lights and things, but troubles
are quite a lot of military camps and

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exercises going on in the area.
So um we did see some lights in

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the sky, but we kind of
concluded for sort of searchlights and flares.

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But because at nighttime there are hills
in the distance that you can't see,

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there are roads on them. Sometimes
traffic and car headlights can make it look

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like the lights, you know,
flaing in the sky when we're by hills.

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There was a lot in the mountains
and the hills. Um. You

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know. As soon as I said
there wasn't a lot of sightings because of

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the weather, the chat room kind
of kind of lit up a little bit,

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um um, And and someone just
let me just see if I can,

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I can post these pictures upon upon
the site in front of you here.

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And wasn't there someone posted for sure
posted wasn't there a famous abduction case

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with three women in England? Are
you familiar with that? Um? I

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can't think of any off And to
be honest, I know we're aving a

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few cases involving women in Britain,
but abduction cases are fairly fairly rare here

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because we don't really use hypnotic regrets. You know. It was I think

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for we're aving a couple of cases
where women were hypnotically regressed and have a

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kind of traditional um or abduction event
similar to Americans. One piece of research

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for about English cases is that we
tend to get um tall audit type aliens

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as opposed to the gray aliens and
you know, we have been famous cases

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involving them. Alan Godfrey policeman who
who came across a landed flying saucer in

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front of his police car and then
he was hypnotically redressed and record being examined

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inside a flying saucer. We're like
dog like humanoids with dog like faces and

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you know, so that was a
bit different from the usual type of case.

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But it was sort of highly traumatized
by this incident and it's one of

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a classic cases British uthology. Yeah. So actually I believe this is the

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gentleman that bart my about my triangle
ufo painting in the uk Um. He

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says, look up the Falkirk ufo
triangle nineteen ninety. I was in Scotland.

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Yeah, Yeah, were numerous sightings
up there in the nineteen nineties and

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there was a sort of how hotbed
of activity. I suppose it became very

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equivalent of Mormons to have been,
you know, in the sixties, and

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there was something called a bonnie Bridge
triangle to be an area where a lot

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of UFOs were seen and I think
a local counselor even said he'd been abducted

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by aliens and a sort of relationships
with aliens. So you know, quite

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a lot was going on in the
sort of nineties. I suppose a lot

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of this came about because of you
know, the end of a millennium really

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and things like the h files and
abductions and everything like that was seeing to

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00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:03,680
come into a head. And for
some reason, UFOs seem to like specific

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localities and in a Warminster. I
suppose it's still attractive to uthologists in Britain

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to go to, even if it's
just with a sense of nostalgia, and

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I suppose bonnie Bridges become the same. And then Scotland there is a classic

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case that happened at Livingstone and a
man there saw a landed ufo and these

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00:25:27,799 --> 00:25:36,000
like round objects with spikes came rolling
towards him and ripped his trouds or some

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ny He went unconscious and I don't
think there's any abduction recollected by the person.

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But that was a very unusual case
and there is a book about that

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by Malcolm Robinson, a British uthologist. So you know, we're are quite

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a few intriguing cases. Often,
you know, like a lot of these

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areas really a lot of the majority
of sights and sort of lights in the

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sky of the occasional contact with perhaps
space people and landing craft. But they

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tend to be in a minority.
Obviously they have the most interesting cases.

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Yeah. Um, you know I
didn't ask you in the beginning, you

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00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,079
know what cut you interest in the
topic. We can talk about that later.

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But while we're on the subject of
basically what people are claiming abductions right

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now. I remember speaking with class
Faun from Sweden. He's been on the

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show a number of times, and
he's saying, you know, it's very

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very low there. What's it like
in where you're from. Do do people

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talk about abductions as much as are
anywhere near as much as they do in

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the Usum No, I don't think
people do. They're more likely to mention

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you thos in terms of science fiction
programs or films. Um. Yeah,

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And it doesn't really come up much
in conversation. Yeah, like I said,

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because we haven't used it not it
regressions so much as in the United

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States. That might be one reason
why these cases are coming up, you

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00:27:25,759 --> 00:27:30,079
know, and perhaps people are reticent
about it. And also people are more

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likely to go on the internet now
and put their experiences on social media through

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you know, in the past,
people had to sort of seek and sort

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of third party to write up their
case or anything, whereas now, you

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00:27:45,319 --> 00:27:49,960
know, we can just put a
comment on Facebook. In fact, often

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you get people mentioning, oh,
yeah, I had an abduction several years

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00:27:55,079 --> 00:28:00,960
ago or something. But you know, we're often we're just off from sort

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of never really been um you know, interviewed or written down the case is

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in any detail. Um. So
that might be another reason my um um,

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you know, would come across to
many abduction reports as well. You

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00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,680
know, right, well, um, I think you know, it's it's

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it's interesting. I don't really know, you know, I have uh,

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like I said, when you and
I were talking, I was on the

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00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:37,559
fence about you know, abduct abductions
in general. Um, you know,

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to begin with, and uh,
you know, I just think, um,

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you know, I have to have
an open mind about it. First

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00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,160
of all, because if you know, definitely there's something going on, we

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are definitely being visited from. I
don't know who we're being visited from.

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There's something flying around the skies,
um, and there's a lot of evidence

333
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,720
of that. And also I have
to always keep an open mind as well,

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00:29:03,799 --> 00:29:11,200
because if you know, the nature
of exploration is not just you know,

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00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:17,559
observation from afar. You know,
we don't do that. I'm not

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00:29:17,599 --> 00:29:21,640
saying that we can expect whatever it
is to be like us. But still

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00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:26,440
it's possible these things are happening,
you know, But I do I did

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00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:30,400
think it was. I always thought
it was very strange that it was so

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00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,720
much in the US compared to other
places. Yeah, it's interesting out Timmy.

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00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:41,319
So nineteen fifties, when the kind
of subject took hode, the scientific

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00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:48,519
uthologists wanted to just pin it down
to remote controlled craft and we're just you

342
00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:53,119
know, objects that were probing us
and investigating us a bit like the probose

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00:29:53,240 --> 00:30:00,240
we were sending to moon to the
moon and Martin Venus and well, don't

344
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:06,359
really that much talk about alien entities. The contacts spoke about them a lot,

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00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,240
and people like Jackie Domsky was regularly
meeting them in you know, diners

346
00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:18,960
and cafes and places. And because
they got so much publicity, scientific uthologies

347
00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:23,759
and people like Donald o' kehoe,
we're trying to promote the idea that these

348
00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:32,720
were space probes that were just sort
of probing and investigating us in the same

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way we were probing our own solar
system. And that's seeing quite logical really,

350
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,839
But then I suppose with a Betty
and Barney Hill case and a few

351
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:48,279
other cases are very similar to it, that kind of put the catamounts of

352
00:30:48,359 --> 00:30:53,160
pigeons really and people ben thought,
well, if it's logical that these or

353
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,839
extraterrestrial craft, then another step of
logic is that you know, we're being

354
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:04,200
piloted by something, you know,
and not just remote remote control objects,

355
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:10,640
So you know, it became a
bit more credible that there might be aliens

356
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:15,519
inside them, and then you know, another credibility lead us to think,

357
00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:22,319
well, perhaps there really are abducting
people to carry out research into human beings

358
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,519
as well as surveying our planet.
So you know, I suppose by the

359
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:34,720
nineteen seventies abduction cases began to take
route within you know, more sensible uquolity

360
00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:41,039
beyond the contact area. So you
know, it was kind of a slow

361
00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:49,440
tradition transition really, and groups like
Nightcap were set against abductions really, but

362
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,839
when faced with a bet In Barney
Hill case, I think we felt that

363
00:31:55,799 --> 00:32:00,240
this was something more than just a
fantasy, and you know, it kind

364
00:32:00,279 --> 00:32:08,480
of opened the floodgate sent for it
to be acceptable within the uthology right um,

365
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:15,319
speaking of the Beady and Berney Hill
case, is that when you spent

366
00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:19,880
a lot of time on looking into
over the years. Yes, I think

367
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,880
what struck me was that it was
one of the first cases. I don't

368
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:28,680
think it was exactly the first one, but it was the one that really

369
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:36,240
took worldwide attention when it was publicized
in John Fuller's book The Interrupted Journey.

370
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:44,839
And also it kind of as as
um it reflects on modern day uthology was

371
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:50,200
still at the legacy of that case
and we're quite you know, we're very

372
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:57,039
credible witnesses. But also you can
track it back in time to re Anton

373
00:32:57,119 --> 00:33:04,039
near villas BoA's case in nineteen fifty
seven Wary he said it's a UFO when

374
00:33:04,079 --> 00:33:10,559
he was playing a field at night
and then a fling sorts landed near him,

375
00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:16,920
and then aliens sort of dragged him
into his craft. And so that

376
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:24,519
that was one of the earlier abduction
cases that though uthologists felt it might have

377
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:31,920
been a fantasy, it was it
was another really credible witness who persisted and

378
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:39,839
tell him the same story over over
many years. Really, and it might

379
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:45,480
have helped influence the Betting Barney hillcase
because water Webb, one of the investigators

380
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:52,160
of the hillcase, was pretty well
aware of Brazilian cases. I don't know

381
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:59,119
if it might have been a bit
of cross contamination there, but even so,

382
00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:06,640
I think it showed that for Brazilian
cases have opened up people's ideas to

383
00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:15,119
the possibility of alien abduction. But
it's interesting Antonio villas BoA's cases that he

384
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:20,440
actually had a fight with the aliens
and were dragged him on board, and

385
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,760
same with Betty and Barney Hill.
We're kind of forcibly dragged onto the craft,

386
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:32,119
whereas in later cases people are sort
of beamed through walls and windows into

387
00:34:32,119 --> 00:34:40,280
a craft. So the aliens have
had a leap technological leap, or you

388
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:46,079
know, perhaps cases like that would
have been just totally ignored by youthfully just

389
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:53,119
thinking they were too fantastic. I
think it needed people like Bud Hopkins and

390
00:34:53,280 --> 00:35:00,920
David Jacobs too, you know,
consider the cases from a a fresh point

391
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:06,480
of view and too, And they
gave him a sort of legitimacy and in

392
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,360
a way was still got what they've
given to the subject. Really, whether

393
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:19,599
you know we agree with it or
not. M yeah, I was unaware

394
00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:24,159
of this nineteen fifty seven Brazilian case. I just had never heard of it

395
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:29,039
until you just mentioned it. Um, So I'm definitely going to look into

396
00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:35,880
that more. But you said that
he was forcibly dragged upon a craft burning.

397
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,519
Yeah, it was an egg shape
craft, but it's kind of unusual

398
00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:45,639
because it had a sort of rudder
I think out the front or back,

399
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:51,760
sort of little wings, and it
had a platform around it, and he

400
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,840
was kind of dragged up a little
metal ladder, and so it sounds a

401
00:35:54,840 --> 00:36:01,960
bit more like a kind of a
ship or something rather and anything that can

402
00:36:02,039 --> 00:36:07,519
fly very well, let alone be
a spaceship. And when when he was

403
00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:15,159
dragged aboard, he was the aliens
had helmets on and everything, and he

404
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:20,920
was putting the room sort of gas
as smoke was injected, and he was

405
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,320
sort of forced to have sex with
an alien woman. And you know,

406
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:31,320
this was what really kind of upset
you followed us at the time, thinking,

407
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,280
you know, it was just just
some sort of male fantasy or something.

408
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,960
But now I think I've heard about
it now that you mentioned that part.

409
00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:47,519
Yeah, No, I didn't rise
with him fifty seven. Yeah,

410
00:36:49,199 --> 00:36:53,760
it was not long after the spoke
Nick launch Teaps would say that you know,

411
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:59,440
space exploration was in the air at
the time, and that you know,

412
00:36:59,519 --> 00:37:06,480
spot grab a headlines throughout the world, so space issues were in everyone's

413
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:14,480
mind. And also where I've been
newspaper articles about flying sources over that period,

414
00:37:15,039 --> 00:37:22,079
and that encouraged Antonio Villa Spos to
write of a newspaper about his story.

415
00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:27,400
But he never really made any money
out of it. And I've read

416
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:32,400
a sad story. But he's now
buried in a unmarked grave in Brazil because

417
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:38,400
his family don't want sort of UFO
supporters to come and visit his grave.

418
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:45,320
I think it's rather sad that somebody
had such a pivotal role in the evolution

419
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:52,239
of uthology and abdutching cases is now
you know, almost like forgotten in his

420
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:58,440
own land. I think that's quite
quite sad, ending really yeah, yeah,

421
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:04,079
that is sad when that when that
happens, and you know, uh,

422
00:38:04,119 --> 00:38:07,440
there's been a lot of iconic people
and as a matter of fact,

423
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:13,960
that's what one of our blog our
blogs of this last week about Springfield is,

424
00:38:14,599 --> 00:38:16,519
you know, addressing that, um, you know, some of the

425
00:38:16,639 --> 00:38:20,880
some of the people from the past
that we're really you know, really good

426
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:27,840
researchers. Um, and uh so
you you were, you were following Bud

427
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,159
Hopkins, which I think is he
did some pretty fascinating work. Um.

428
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:37,920
There's always one one case that baffles
me because of the witnesses and everything.

429
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:44,119
And you probably heard about the Brooklyn
Bridge. Oh yeah, yeah, that

430
00:38:44,159 --> 00:38:46,159
one is fascinating. Do you know
the details of that at all? For

431
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,159
some of the people that have never
heard about that, I don't. I

432
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,320
know there was some type of celebrity
or someone. Yeah, I think it

433
00:38:53,559 --> 00:39:01,159
involved the head of a UN Yeah, okay, woman think was I think

434
00:39:01,199 --> 00:39:08,039
she was sort of levitated, levitated
out of her apartment window, and it

435
00:39:08,159 --> 00:39:15,519
had some connection with the United Nations
leader. But I can't remember the exact

436
00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:20,880
details of it. Something started or
someone wrote it, Yeah, getting attacked

437
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:27,360
by flies now, but it's a
yeah, that was one of the big

438
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:36,760
cases that Hopkins put about. But
some people are skeptical because it paralleled a

439
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,199
fictional story. I don't know if
it's a story called nightfall or something like

440
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:50,000
that. But and also it was
impossible to track down the people connected with

441
00:39:50,079 --> 00:39:57,199
the UN to to confirm what this
woman said. Um, but apparently there

442
00:39:57,199 --> 00:40:02,800
were witnesses to a UFO that night
for a woman, I think Linda m

443
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:10,679
Nappa Napoloney, I think she was
called she was beamed out, And I

444
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:17,840
think some people didn't report seeing UTHO
activity at that time. But I think

445
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,960
that's a frustrating thing with a lot
of these kind of UTHOT cases where you

446
00:40:23,039 --> 00:40:28,760
get a certain amount of detail,
but it's it's very hard to confirm,

447
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:35,079
and also with it being a famous
political person, even if it was true,

448
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:40,360
it'd be very hard for them to
to say that that's what occurred,

449
00:40:40,519 --> 00:40:46,159
you know. So so I think
that's one of the problems of this type

450
00:40:46,159 --> 00:40:50,559
of uthology really. And of course, you know a lot of the older

451
00:40:50,639 --> 00:40:53,119
cases people are dying off, you
know, Betty and Barney Hill are dead

452
00:40:53,159 --> 00:41:00,440
and Antoni and Villas BoA's instead,
so we've only got you know, items

453
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:05,039
in magazines and a few books really, so I think it's you know,

454
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:12,239
current cases we should regard as being
more precious really before you know, anything

455
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:19,440
happens to people. Yeah, just
because I haven't seen your book, haven't

456
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:22,119
read through your book, can you
just kind of give a list off the

457
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,719
top you ahead of some of the
cases that you discuss in the book itself.

458
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,599
Well, I do mention the Villa's
first case of Betty and Barney Hill

459
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:37,159
case. I use for nearly every
chapter to look at how it relates back

460
00:41:37,199 --> 00:41:44,159
to the past of the future,
a Travis Wolton case which became the subject

461
00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:54,079
of Firing the Sky movie, Whitley
Strivers experiences recounts and communion, and you

462
00:41:54,119 --> 00:42:04,360
know the piscolar the Mississippi case with
Hixon and Parker. But what I'm trying

463
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:10,079
to do is put put obvious material
into perspective, really from a from a

464
00:42:10,199 --> 00:42:15,000
historical point of view, as much
as relating the cases for themselves. You

465
00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:21,039
know, there's plenty of other books
that tell us about the cases, but

466
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:28,079
we often neglect looking at different perspectives. Too. Many UFO books are promoting

467
00:42:28,199 --> 00:42:34,639
one viewpoint chin of were extraterrestrial,
of ultra terrestrials, or you know,

468
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,480
time travelers, or you know,
usually somebody's got one theory to promote.

469
00:42:39,159 --> 00:42:45,920
And I'm trying to look at them
these cases from different angles really, um

470
00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:51,719
and being a British uthologist or a
European uthologists, we tend to look at

471
00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:58,800
the social and psychological aspects of UFOs, whereas with states it tends to be

472
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:04,599
more an extraterrest viewpoint. So you
know, I have mentioned quite a few

473
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:13,280
psychological explanations for cases, but what
I find a problem is a lot of

474
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:22,079
psychologists mentioned sleep paralysis as an explanation
for abductions. But I think that's too

475
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,159
you know, we're trying to use
one explanation to explain a lot of things.

476
00:43:25,559 --> 00:43:30,519
And I think with this subject,
from you know, lights of a

477
00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:37,960
skyto abductions, there was never one
all embracing answer to them. You know's

478
00:43:37,039 --> 00:43:42,679
usually lots of different answers to different
cases. So you know, I think

479
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,480
you have to look at every case
on its own merits, really and look

480
00:43:47,519 --> 00:43:54,480
at it from a fresh perspective.
And I think we've abductions. You know,

481
00:43:54,679 --> 00:44:02,639
some might have a you know,
explanations like hallucinations or fantasies or nightmares

482
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:08,519
and things like that. Others a
far more complex and might be you know,

483
00:44:08,559 --> 00:44:13,239
a combination of those things, or
you know, it could be just

484
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:19,199
something really exceptional that is going on. You know, you know, that's

485
00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:24,039
the thing that always encourages us to
you know, research and read really,

486
00:44:24,119 --> 00:44:32,559
and that you know was never the
automate answer. Yeah, as now you

487
00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:36,960
mentioned the case you looked at but
did you also have you ever looked into

488
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:44,679
the Ala Gash incident. I think
that's really a fascinating That was like for

489
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:51,159
men, young men who were camping
out on a boat and we'd left a

490
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,079
flare burning on the shore. I
went out on a boat and the a

491
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:02,000
UFO and I think we returned back
to Sure and then we found the fire

492
00:45:02,039 --> 00:45:07,119
had burned down a lot further of
them that they had expected, So there

493
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:14,199
was an element of missing time.
I think one one person sort of denied

494
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,679
the validity of a case, but
the other three witnesses stuck to that story.

495
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,920
UM, and I think, um, they were hypnotically regressed, but

496
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:30,840
I'm not sure. I think they
then had a sort of classic abduction experiences.

497
00:45:31,599 --> 00:45:36,440
Yeah, yeah, it was one
story I didn't mention in the book.

498
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,320
Yeah. No, I mean there's
there's plenty of them. You can

499
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,880
only do so much in a book. Um. Yeah, that I've actually

500
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:47,760
spoken directly to our three. Actually, I'm sorry to two of the people

501
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:52,199
that were involved in that. That
pretty amazing. Um. But getting back,

502
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:57,800
you mentioned the Pascagoula incident, and
I just wanted to, um,

503
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:02,039
let the listeners know. I spoke
with Calvin Park today and trying to get

504
00:46:02,079 --> 00:46:08,679
there are two more witnesses that actually, when that whole case gain traction in

505
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:15,199
publicity, there are two people that
were able to put themselves exactly. They

506
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:20,280
had this experience where they actually saw
the craft the same day at a different

507
00:46:20,559 --> 00:46:24,039
and a different location. But you
know, going over to that and I'm

508
00:46:24,039 --> 00:46:29,480
trying to get all those people on
one of the upcoming shows. Hopefully they'll

509
00:46:29,519 --> 00:46:35,280
be within a month or so we'll
have all three people on one of the

510
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,719
shows. Interesting case, yeah,
because I think the critics said that because

511
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:46,599
it happened there a motorway flyover,
but surprising that nobody traveling past, so

512
00:46:47,039 --> 00:46:54,719
I didn't see a UFO or anything. But I think Philip Mantle and Parker

513
00:46:54,800 --> 00:47:00,519
himself have found where are people who
might have actually seen some thing on that

514
00:47:00,679 --> 00:47:07,199
day or evening, and some were
traveling in cars. So perhaps it's just

515
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:13,119
taken a long time for people to
realize that, you know, we've been

516
00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:17,000
an abduction at the same time,
because I suppose some people might have you

517
00:47:17,039 --> 00:47:22,840
know, not not seen in news
reports or I didn't really put any importance

518
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:28,360
on what they're signed to A lot
a lot later, But it is a

519
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:34,840
bit frustrating when it does take it
can take you literally decades to get confirmatory

520
00:47:35,039 --> 00:47:40,039
evidence. And I suppose a frustrating
thing about this case as well as that

521
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:49,480
Charles Hickson was the main spokesman Father
case and Calvin Parker didn't say anything until

522
00:47:49,559 --> 00:47:55,320
recent years and after the death of
Hickson really, so, you know,

523
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:01,480
I think that tends to happen with
a lot of UFO cases involving um more

524
00:48:01,559 --> 00:48:07,599
than one person, and that you
know, there's always one who was a

525
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,960
spokes person and then the others tend
to fade into the background. Um,

526
00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:16,000
you know, with a Betty and
Barney hillcase, you know, Barney wanted

527
00:48:16,039 --> 00:48:20,920
to repress it, whereas Betty wanted
to talk about it, you know,

528
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,679
so very again, it was quite
a bit frustrating really about you I seem

529
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:31,760
to get to two different characters involved. And I think it's good that Parker's

530
00:48:32,639 --> 00:48:38,320
so I've come out and started talking
about his experience because if you if you

531
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:45,320
look at his testament, you know, obviously affected him a lot, and

532
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:51,079
I think he had a nervous breakdown
shortly after the case. And also it's

533
00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:55,599
interesting in fact he was worried about
radiation. I think both of them,

534
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:05,400
I've been exposed to eye levels a
radiation that might be very detrimental to her

535
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:12,239
health. And that's one reason why
the local Air Force base actually interviewed and

536
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:20,079
didn't detect any radiation on them.
But it's quite interesting because Betty Hill also

537
00:49:20,199 --> 00:49:28,480
said she reported her experience because she
was frightened of radiation and I think they

538
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:35,360
cleaned out the car or did something
where they were quite frightened about that possibility.

539
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:43,679
So being contaminated by whatever they didn't
count it showed that was something you

540
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,199
know, it was beyond just her
imagination, if you know what I mean.

541
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:53,159
They felt that something was coming from
outside and you know it could affect

542
00:49:53,400 --> 00:50:00,320
her health, you know, right, yeah, I know, Oh that

543
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:06,840
they had those circles like on the
back of the trunk or something right bad

544
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:12,360
in Bernie Hills something. Yeah,
we had amounts on the car and I

545
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:17,400
think that also put a compass on
the car and it spun round, that's

546
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:23,079
right, you know, But something
strange had happened to the magnetic polarity of

547
00:50:23,159 --> 00:50:29,039
a car or something. But you
know, it was something she was definitely

548
00:50:29,079 --> 00:50:35,119
worried about. And interestingly, it
was at a time when I think the

549
00:50:35,199 --> 00:50:40,760
Soviet Union was trying to start atomic
testing again. So you know, it's

550
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:45,519
say much in the news that,
you know, because it was in the

551
00:50:45,639 --> 00:50:51,920
period of a code wall in the
nuclear arms race or something on people's minds,

552
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:57,400
and you know, like the contacts
were always speaking to space people who

553
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:04,400
are one in us about you know, ourselves annihilating our planet and upsetting cosmic

554
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:10,920
balance of things, and so you
know, I suppose, you know,

555
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:16,079
it's just something for foremost in people's
minds as well. But it's just interesting

556
00:51:16,159 --> 00:51:22,880
that two of the most important abduction
cases do do mention radiation. I think

557
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:30,719
I think Calvin Parker actually, I
think he was quick to get a shower

558
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:37,159
really to kind of clean himself off. I suppose in a way that's physically

559
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:43,280
and mentally wanting to you know,
shed the experience really and so be fresh

560
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,239
and new again. So I think, um, you know, it does

561
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:53,800
show that whatever happened to him and
to Betting Barney Hill did have some you

562
00:51:53,840 --> 00:52:00,320
know, lasting the emotional and psychological
effects on the you know, whatever we

563
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:06,480
think, you know might have triggered
it, but certainly quite powerful events to

564
00:52:06,639 --> 00:52:09,880
them. Right, We're going into
break here in just a couple of minutes

565
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:15,320
and the you know the case I
think i've read off the bat is Ryndelshoon

566
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:22,079
Forest when they actually had you know, traces of radiation. Is is that

567
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:27,760
our comment now you aware of?
Is that a common thing that for like

568
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:35,199
evidence trace evidence of some landings.
Yeah, we got interested in the subject.

569
00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:39,639
We were always you know, people
were getting Geiger counters. So if

570
00:52:39,679 --> 00:52:45,360
anyone ever saw landing traces that would
come a Geiger counter. I think it's

571
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:52,960
because always stories of you know,
atomic powered flying saucers. Really so it

572
00:52:53,119 --> 00:52:58,519
was a kind of assumption that we
use atomic power and so we would leave

573
00:52:58,679 --> 00:53:04,480
traces in the ground. Um,
it's people, there's space, gravity and

574
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,159
time. I think it was called
a something that a book by Leonard Crump,

575
00:53:07,639 --> 00:53:13,000
and he spoke about propulsion systems like
that, which was very popular in

576
00:53:13,079 --> 00:53:19,800
Britain. So it was something people
did think about in terms of flying sources.

577
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:24,199
I suppose it was logical that that
is the most modern type of propulsion

578
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:30,239
system. And you know, obviously
it was something at least you could it

579
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:36,360
was something tangible for you to try
and check. Why you say, with

580
00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:43,159
Randall Shaun Forest they did have a
guide a counter out to as we're sort

581
00:53:43,159 --> 00:53:50,440
of seeing flying sources in the sky. So yeah, that's the implication,

582
00:53:50,599 --> 00:53:52,519
really, I suppose. Yeah,
all right, it's time for us to

583
00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:55,800
go in to break out. I
know Cash Landrum there was an issue there

584
00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:00,320
too, Right, we're going to
go into the break and hanging any shoot

585
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:04,679
YouTube, We're going to play Betty
Hill for you during this break, so

586
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:12,239
over at KGr A radio. We'll
be back right after these messages. Betty

587
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,920
Hill claims she and her husband Barney
were abducted while driving through New Hampshire in

588
00:54:16,039 --> 00:54:22,000
nineteen sixty one. Her full story
was only revealed when she was hypnotized.

589
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:27,559
She said a spacecraft blocked the road
in front of them. She and Barney

590
00:54:27,559 --> 00:54:35,079
were taken aboard by its crew of
aliens. There was one person there who

591
00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:39,039
spoke English in a very limited way, who kept trying to reassure us that

592
00:54:39,199 --> 00:54:43,559
no harm was going to come to
us. They just wanted to do some

593
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:50,920
simple chests. Both of our exams
were very similar and most parts, and

594
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:55,519
that they were very interested in our
eyes, ears, nose, throat.

595
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:02,159
They scrapings of a ski and say
of a hair, and I'm interested in

596
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:09,639
a feet. Then with me they
did what they called testing my nervous system,

597
00:55:09,679 --> 00:55:15,119
and he tried to insert a needle
like instrument into my navel, which

598
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:20,360
he called a pregnancy test, and
it caused pain, so they stopped doing

599
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:25,119
it. They did not all look
alike. They ranged in heights probably four

600
00:55:27,079 --> 00:55:35,320
forty five feet as far as appearance. They had no hair and no protruding

601
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,639
part of the ear. They had
large eyes, small dose thin slipped for

602
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:49,000
a mouth. They were all basically
dressed alike in a one piece dig outfit.

603
00:55:49,679 --> 00:55:52,480
But some are wearing jackets, but
not all of them. Some were

604
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:59,000
wearing caps, but not all of
them. If you've been abducted, you

605
00:55:59,079 --> 00:56:02,000
know something I U will has happened, you go to the police. Every

606
00:56:02,119 --> 00:56:07,599
real abduction I worked with has gone
directly to the police within five hours.

607
00:56:07,559 --> 00:56:15,159
And not only that, these people
who think they've been abducted it happened a

608
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:22,800
real abductions. They always take some
possession belonging to the person. About six

609
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:28,039
weeks after our abduction, Money and
I came home one night and on the

610
00:56:28,119 --> 00:56:32,280
kitchen table with a pile of dry
leaves and my blue earrings I was wearing

611
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:38,239
that night, So we knew they
knew where we lived, all right,

612
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:44,039
welcome back. This is Martin Willis
and I'm with my guest tonight, Nigel

613
00:56:44,079 --> 00:56:49,519
Watson from the UK. And that
was quite an interesting clip with Betty.

614
00:56:49,639 --> 00:56:54,079
Some things I didn't ever hear her. I didn't actually watch that clip.

615
00:56:54,119 --> 00:57:00,599
I found it and quickly I just
loaded it. But had you ever heard

616
00:57:00,639 --> 00:57:07,920
of people having things that were missing? Yeah, with her case, quite

617
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:13,000
a few spooky things happened to her. I think a neighbor said she saw

618
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:19,000
some of men in black hanging around
her house long after the incident. Remembers

619
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:24,880
of things about the earrings and the
leaves being left on the dining room table

620
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:30,760
or the kitchen table, and you
know, like she says, it was

621
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:35,400
like a mark about the aliens knew
where she lived, which is quite chilling

622
00:57:35,519 --> 00:57:40,679
really. And I think Betty went
on to have a lot more UFO experiences

623
00:57:40,719 --> 00:57:46,840
after that. I think she used
to regularly go on skywatches and saw all

624
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:53,280
types of different UFOs and I think
she also saw like pumpkin head identities as

625
00:57:53,320 --> 00:58:00,239
well. But you know, most
attention has been focused on the i've An

626
00:58:00,239 --> 00:58:05,320
incident. Some people think she kind
of got a bit carried away with a

627
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:09,519
subject. But she did publish a
book which she called euphos and common Sense,

628
00:58:10,039 --> 00:58:15,559
and in a way she did.
She was sort of skeptical of a

629
00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:22,199
lot of modern day abduction cases,
and you know, she hated the fact

630
00:58:22,199 --> 00:58:29,920
that some people came up to Savord
seen aliens exactly like the one she'd seen,

631
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:34,960
when really they were describing the sort
of modern day Grade type. But

632
00:58:35,239 --> 00:58:42,880
she saw more human looking aliens that
weren't anything like the grades really, So

633
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:47,360
you know, her case was a
little bit different from a lot of the

634
00:58:47,519 --> 00:58:54,199
cases in a sort of eighties and
nighties. And I think that's why her

635
00:58:54,239 --> 00:58:59,760
case is so interesting, because it
has so many elements really, you know,

636
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:07,000
things you know, like missing time
and being prode by wires and a

637
00:59:07,159 --> 00:59:15,400
needle inserted into a navel. And
it seemed like people like Hawkins and Jacobs

638
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:20,239
have said, you know, the
aliens seem to be overly interested in us

639
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:24,280
of reproductive organs that rather than you
know, we never seemed interested in our

640
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:29,920
heart or even our brains. You
know, we seem to be mum,

641
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:34,440
which has led some to think about
the aliens and sort of trying to breed

642
00:59:34,559 --> 00:59:40,119
hybrid babies of things. But you
know, the antony of the suppose case

643
00:59:40,199 --> 00:59:47,039
and for Betty and Barny Hill Case
kind of bring those issues into focus really,

644
00:59:47,119 --> 00:59:53,719
but you know, we're not just
like well even with contact tease who

645
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:59,320
were shown around the craft, but
we usually they had contact with like beautiful

646
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:06,360
space people and some did say we
had relationships with beautiful space within them things,

647
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:10,760
so you know there was that element, but they were more like the

648
01:00:12,039 --> 01:00:19,480
movie science fiction sort of stories rather
than you know, more nightmarish elements of

649
01:00:20,119 --> 01:00:27,320
the Hillcase. M hm um,
well, uh, yeah, that that

650
01:00:27,519 --> 01:00:30,280
is really something. One of the
things that she did say, though,

651
01:00:30,639 --> 01:00:34,480
she said when she was describing them
is that, um, you know there

652
01:00:34,679 --> 01:00:37,159
she didn't really notice the ears.
A lot of people say that about you

653
01:00:37,199 --> 01:00:40,079
know, the graz or other type
of things that they see, and also

654
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:45,480
a very small slit for the nose
or something like that or I think she

655
01:00:45,559 --> 01:00:50,679
said something like that, and that's
also similar to what people have. Yeah,

656
01:00:50,719 --> 01:00:58,199
it's also interesting sort of where sees
awhere uniforms, you know, with

657
01:00:59,039 --> 01:01:06,199
a lake trapped in cases, the
spacecraft always seem to be very sterile environments.

658
01:01:06,559 --> 01:01:12,079
They never have lounges and TV screens
for recreation. They always seem to

659
01:01:12,119 --> 01:01:20,239
be rather code places with examination tables
and sort of reception rooms and perhaps control

660
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:25,480
rooms, but very rarely is there
something like a cinema room or recreation rooms

661
01:01:25,639 --> 01:01:34,000
or anything suggesting that they've got sort
of life beyond their mission, if you

662
01:01:34,039 --> 01:01:38,360
know what I mean. A so
some people think the grays are almost like

663
01:01:38,599 --> 01:01:46,039
robots, really are around the drones
like yeah, But I think with Betty

664
01:01:46,159 --> 01:01:52,920
Hill, she had quite a conversation
with a leader and other craft and was

665
01:01:52,000 --> 01:02:00,320
a bit of mixture of telepathy and
speech, and you know, she try

666
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:06,639
to recover a book from the aliens, and she nearly got away with it,

667
01:02:06,679 --> 01:02:12,960
but we took it off before she
could take it away. And you

668
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:17,000
know about something like the old fairies
stories of a past where somebody goes into

669
01:02:17,039 --> 01:02:23,440
an enchanted circle of fairies and there's
a way in fairyland for what they think

670
01:02:23,599 --> 01:02:29,559
is only a few minutes or days, and we come back home to find

671
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:35,639
the been away for years, and
they're often they often try and take something

672
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:43,480
fair from fairyland to proof we've been
somewhere different in it, either stopped from

673
01:02:43,519 --> 01:02:47,880
doing that, or wherever they retrieve
when we get home turns to dust or

674
01:02:49,079 --> 01:02:55,880
ashes. So you know, there
ares of historical aspects of such events,

675
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:02,800
and perhaps it's something so always happened
to humanity that people believe have been taken

676
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:08,079
away by you know, aliens or
witches or fairies or you know, some

677
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:13,920
enchanted land. And you know,
it's something that's in our fiction as much

678
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:22,800
as our folklore. And I think
we've bet in Barney Hill UFO it's quite

679
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:30,440
you know, a place of examination, and that's a control room where Betty

680
01:03:30,519 --> 01:03:37,559
saw a famous stormap which is again
you know, an area of controversy,

681
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:45,000
you know, and some people have
finded out its seat to ridiculium, but

682
01:03:45,159 --> 01:03:51,679
others have said it might have represented
our solar system, and others have said,

683
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:58,079
you know, it's just you know, because it's recorded from hinautic regression,

684
01:03:58,159 --> 01:04:02,880
it doesn't really have much solid foundation
in fact. And I think Shall

685
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:10,199
Valley in particular said, you know, why should advance space beings have a

686
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:14,519
space chart like you know, it's
something an ode pirate ship might have,

687
01:04:14,679 --> 01:04:18,599
but not on modern day space vehicle, you know, even our own cause

688
01:04:19,239 --> 01:04:26,519
of GPS now and we don't really
use maps like we used to. Perhaps

689
01:04:26,559 --> 01:04:33,000
as as to anode space ship.
Yeah, if you start sur for decoration,

690
01:04:34,719 --> 01:04:38,920
well I was I was one of
the things that One of the things

691
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:43,920
I was impressed, actually impressed by
SETI that they actually did was he actually

692
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:48,079
pointed their telescopes to Zeta particular to
see if they could pick any signal up.

693
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:53,679
Speaking of that, I have to
mention something because something went wild on

694
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:59,679
social media on the internet a couple
of days ago, and because SETI posted

695
01:04:59,719 --> 01:05:03,039
on their site, but it was
it was satire, because The Onion wrote

696
01:05:03,599 --> 01:05:09,440
that The Onion, which is basically
a satire site, wrote an article saying

697
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:15,000
that SETI has been picking up signals
every fifty minutes and it's a classic rock

698
01:05:15,079 --> 01:05:18,679
and it was just this satire and
SETI posted on their own website as as

699
01:05:18,719 --> 01:05:23,400
a joke saying this is on the
Onion and all that. So many people

700
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:29,320
took that serious. It's unbelievable.
It was a joke everybody. So,

701
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:32,679
yeah, I think that's a problem
with joking on the internet. Is that?

702
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:40,599
Uh, same with me. You
read the headline and then you might

703
01:05:40,679 --> 01:05:45,400
not just solve gloss over the rest
of a taste exactly. Yeah, I

704
01:05:45,519 --> 01:05:47,639
think, oh, it's that true, and then you go back and read

705
01:05:47,679 --> 01:05:50,800
it and you think, oh,
you know, it's you know, made

706
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:57,400
up story or something, and I
suppose social media is sort of notorious for

707
01:05:57,559 --> 01:06:00,880
that. And you know, I
think quite a few kind of UFO stories

708
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:08,159
to start off as Joe Sorry,
April fool things, and then we're kind

709
01:06:08,159 --> 01:06:13,800
of infiltratement into euthology, and so
people forget where it originally came from,

710
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,559
and then you know, you have
to kind of do a massive a lot

711
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:23,239
of work to find out where where
it came from. If yes, there's

712
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:27,440
a number of things like that,
like, for instance, Alexander the Great,

713
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,360
you know UFO sighting, Well,
there's a lot of people that think

714
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:34,599
that was factual, but that when
that was deeply researched, it only goes

715
01:06:34,639 --> 01:06:38,960
back to I believe in nineteen fifty
two. It was in it was in

716
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:43,320
a book, you know, as
uh and went went from there. That's

717
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:46,679
as far back as you can find
it. So yeah, yeah, myth

718
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:53,679
becomes reality a lot of times if
the story gets repeated enough. It's unfortunate

719
01:06:54,280 --> 01:07:00,960
famous case of British soldiers marching into
a cloud and being abducted in the First

720
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:06,719
World War, and you know,
this has been repeated a lot in UFO

721
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:14,199
books, and it's based on testimony
that was given by these ants soldiers celebrate

722
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:18,800
in the anniversary of the First World
War. I think we wrote in the

723
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:28,599
sort of nineteen sixties and often got
repeated, but were actually soldiers that did

724
01:07:28,679 --> 01:07:35,000
go missing in particular time frame,
but after the war were actually found in

725
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:41,719
a mass grave. And I think
it was a kind of it was just

726
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:45,360
a collapse of different things. Really, were soldiers going missing, and that

727
01:07:45,559 --> 01:07:50,599
was a strange cloud in the area
and two things, and the testimony of

728
01:07:50,679 --> 01:07:58,159
the ants at soldiers many years later
got conflated until it become a classic story

729
01:07:58,239 --> 01:08:02,880
of abduction in the First World.
And you know, that's another example of

730
01:08:03,239 --> 01:08:09,480
if you trade it back to its
origins, you find that there's several different

731
01:08:09,519 --> 01:08:14,440
strands to it, really, and
then other writers have come along and sort

732
01:08:14,519 --> 01:08:18,000
beefed up the story, and you
know it does sound quite convincing, really,

733
01:08:18,039 --> 01:08:24,039
and so you kind of look back
at it and find out why why

734
01:08:24,119 --> 01:08:30,720
the story of of these disappeared soldiers
touts along to become you know, public

735
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:35,199
knowledge as well. Um, yeah, so you know, I suppose that's

736
01:08:35,239 --> 01:08:40,960
another thing with anything to do with
you folks so much. You know,

737
01:08:41,119 --> 01:08:45,520
folks information, you know, some
of it deliberate and other is just people

738
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:49,880
having fun. Really, you know, it's just uh, yeah, you

739
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:56,319
were talking a while back, you
talked about um, you know that it

740
01:08:56,439 --> 01:09:02,399
was strange that they knew Betty Hill's
location, and this seems to come up

741
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:09,119
sometimes that. But I want to
tell just quickly now, I'm doing a

742
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:15,520
book on tape for someone narrating a
book that's going to come out, and

743
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:20,079
in it is an abduction story.
And I hope I'm not going to get

744
01:09:20,079 --> 01:09:25,960
in trouble by telling this, but
it's it's an incredible story where this roommate

745
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,000
of this woman who's telling the story, she is in the Caribbean and she

746
01:09:30,079 --> 01:09:34,640
comes back and she's totally different,
and she was only gone a few days.

747
01:09:35,159 --> 01:09:41,239
And so that night, that same
roommate that came back from the Caribbean

748
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:43,479
asked, she said, I can't
sleep alone. Do you mind if I

749
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,479
just stay in your bed? And
she thought it was very peculiar because they

750
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:50,960
weren't really close or anything, and
she said okay. And anyway, three

751
01:09:51,039 --> 01:09:54,239
nights or so later, it was
happening. You know, every night she

752
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:57,800
want to go. She felt scared
and wanted to be in the bed.

753
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:00,399
So she wakes up in the middle
of the night, she sees what she

754
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:03,880
thinks is a hall light on or
something. This is not the girl that

755
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:08,800
went to the Caribbean. The roommate
the one telling the story. And she

756
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,680
sees like a sliver underneath the door. I guess the door is up quite

757
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:15,840
a bit and she sees movement.
So she realizes, you know, there's

758
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:19,680
only two people in the house and
anyway, so she eventually wakes up her

759
01:10:20,279 --> 01:10:27,960
roommate. She said, there's someone
in the house. And the girl looks

760
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,880
at the door and all of a
sudden they see these feet that are floating,

761
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,800
you could see through the bottom crack
of the door, that weren't even

762
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:38,760
touching the ground. And the roommate
screamed. Basically, it was an abduction

763
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:43,279
case. That she was abducted in
the Caribbean, according to her, and

764
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,239
with the same beings, and she
said they were telepathic and she was scared

765
01:10:46,279 --> 01:10:50,840
to death and didn't know how to
stop it. And what a scary story

766
01:10:51,039 --> 01:10:56,119
that one is. They called the
police. The police arrived and you know,

767
01:10:56,159 --> 01:10:58,439
all the lights were off and there's
no trace of any break in or

768
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:02,680
anything. I don't know what's going
on, but there's there's definitely some very

769
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:09,920
strange stories that people are telling.
Yeah, I find a problem when you

770
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,600
know, it's all right coming up
with different theories, you know, like

771
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:17,800
sleep paralysis or hypnosis and hallucinations,
but when you actually you know, speak

772
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:23,119
to people or see them give a
testimony on film, you know, like

773
01:11:23,239 --> 01:11:29,239
the clip of Betty Hill, you
know, it just were so convincing really

774
01:11:29,319 --> 01:11:33,600
and you know, um, you
know some people might lie about it,

775
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:41,039
but I think people like better Hill, you know, genuinely experience something to

776
01:11:41,239 --> 01:11:45,840
do quite eloquently told you know,
what happened to them. And you know,

777
01:11:45,319 --> 01:11:47,680
you know, you can't really just
say to them, oh, it's

778
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:53,560
just a fantasy or something. You
know, I think that's been you know,

779
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:58,199
too dismissive. And if it is
just a fancy fantasy, you know,

780
01:11:58,279 --> 01:12:01,760
why why you have that to fantasy? Why does it have that format?

781
01:12:02,239 --> 01:12:08,680
You know, it's a piece of
research Eddie Bullard did, who said,

782
01:12:09,279 --> 01:12:13,920
um, looking at a lot of
abduction cases, they found out there

783
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:21,840
is a sub classic scenario of you
know, capture being probed and a conversation

784
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:27,640
with the aliens and being returned home. So it seemed to be a sub

785
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:36,319
classic format to these stories or experiences. And you know, very often repeat

786
01:12:36,399 --> 01:12:44,880
the same themes as well, which
is often hard to dismiss unless there's something

787
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:51,880
you know, some common ground with
them. But we're missing in being too

788
01:12:53,039 --> 01:12:58,079
rational about it. And I think
there's something, you know, strange going

789
01:12:58,119 --> 01:13:01,640
on. But you know what,
it is going to be a wide combination

790
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:05,840
of things. I suppose none of
us really have the answers, and you

791
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:12,199
know, we just have to keep
looking in a scared sometimes. Yeah.

792
01:13:12,399 --> 01:13:15,439
Um. You know the people that
I've actually talked to, um, you

793
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:19,359
know, offline, not not not
on a show, up sat across from

794
01:13:19,399 --> 01:13:25,960
Travis Walton a number of times,
had many conversations with him. I don't

795
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,279
doubt his story. There's nothing about
his story that I doubt. I don't

796
01:13:29,319 --> 01:13:32,560
doubt Calvin Parker in any part of
the way, you know. And I

797
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:39,720
spent a lot of time with Calvin
H. Parker, um and um uh

798
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:43,439
and by the way he was he
was. He came back on this show

799
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:47,239
first, um was the first appearance, and I got him connected with Philip

800
01:13:47,239 --> 01:13:51,600
Mannell and the whole thing. So
yeah, so I was really glad that.

801
01:13:53,319 --> 01:13:55,680
And Calvin keeps telling me, by
the way he says, you know,

802
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,000
I'm all done in this thing.
I'm not going to talk anymore,

803
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:00,520
and I still get him him.
He's still going to be on at least

804
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:06,880
one more time anyway. But they're
actually making his um, they're making a

805
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:13,399
screenplay of that situation, so that
should be interesting. Yeah, I think

806
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:18,479
we're also doing UM. I think
is a TV series of Betty and Barney

807
01:14:18,560 --> 01:14:26,159
hillcase as well. Yes, that's
Bryce Stables. That should be very good

808
01:14:26,199 --> 01:14:32,359
as well. It's a very short
film cover Brumby Encounter, and that's a

809
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:38,560
very good little story based on a
Betty and Barney hillcase. You know,

810
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:44,600
just change the names. But it's
set of the sixties, and it focuses

811
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:50,640
on the fact that we were an
interracial couple and that Barney's being sort of

812
01:14:51,039 --> 01:14:57,560
manhandled by the investigator who somehow thinks
the abductions and sort of cover up for

813
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:01,840
him abusing his wife. You know, it's quite a neatly little, neat

814
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:08,720
little story. But if you go
back to nineteen seventy five in for maybe

815
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:14,920
UFO Incident based on a Betty and
Barney hillcase, and that's a very good

816
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:19,960
film about you know, their relationship
of the set in and there isn't so

817
01:15:20,039 --> 01:15:27,640
much about the aliens and you know, so I think it's really well done

818
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:32,760
for that period because it could easily
go for cheap special effects and you know,

819
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:38,199
invaders from space and everything, whereas
they made it more of a human

820
01:15:38,359 --> 01:15:46,439
story. And I'm hoping this TV
series will sort its flavose issues really because

821
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:55,399
you know, it's such an important
case. And yeah, I'm just I

822
01:15:55,439 --> 01:16:00,520
didn't like the way Project blue Book
TV series featured case and it changed,

823
01:16:01,159 --> 01:16:09,000
it changed the color of the different
characters. And I think we have Bonnie

824
01:16:09,079 --> 01:16:14,720
held false and we investigators to listen
to his story at gunpoint. It just

825
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:17,359
got a bit too to Ludy Chris, I know you can have a bit

826
01:16:17,399 --> 01:16:25,319
about just it license, but you
know that was just just beyond you know,

827
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:30,079
we're already fantastic cases. You know
why you why add such stupidness?

828
01:16:30,159 --> 01:16:33,720
Really? You know, that was
a bit frustrated about the way they presented

829
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:39,319
it there, So yeah, you
know, I didn't want I think I

830
01:16:39,399 --> 01:16:43,279
might have missed that episode or I
saw. I do recall something about them

831
01:16:43,319 --> 01:16:46,399
going to a big house or something, but I don't remember the details in

832
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:54,960
that particular Um blue Book episode.
But I wonder what Kathleen Marden thinks of

833
01:16:55,039 --> 01:16:59,199
that particular, she probably get sheet, probably got pretty upset about that.

834
01:17:00,159 --> 01:17:04,399
But I'm a bit critical of some
of thin of a thing she says about

835
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:11,840
the Betting Banning Hill case, even
though she's obviously, you know, a

836
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:16,319
family relations so she knows not far
more about you know, we have dynamics

837
01:17:16,319 --> 01:17:20,439
of it anyway, and let's here, let's here what that is if you

838
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:28,680
wouldn't mind, Well, the evidence
is something like you know, some Betty

839
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:34,239
Hill stress that's been you know,
scientifically examined. But I think the trouble

840
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:42,760
is something that's been sitting in somebody's
closet for decades and then subjected to analysis

841
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:47,800
doesn't really you know, it's just
frustrating because it doesn't prove anything really,

842
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:55,560
And a problem with a lot of
scientific analysis is that it doesn't really identify.

843
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:59,640
It might might be, you know, it might be a bit stranger,

844
01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:02,760
but it cappined down what that strangeness
is. You know, is it

845
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:08,520
just mode of fun guy or you
know whatever? You know, you know,

846
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:13,039
a believer think it's caused by the
fact that the dress was touched by

847
01:18:13,079 --> 01:18:17,159
the alien hands and they left some
sort of oil or substance on the dress,

848
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:23,640
and you know, like just markings
on the car. You know,

849
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:30,239
they don't really add up to anything
really, and I think it's like the

850
01:18:30,279 --> 01:18:39,720
old thing of abductees trying to get
hold of something like the book or a

851
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:45,600
solid object but never do. But
even the landing traces are a bit unspecific,

852
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:49,159
and I think with a better in
Barney Hill case, there's been a

853
01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:55,680
bit dispute about where the actual landing
took place. And you know, so

854
01:18:56,359 --> 01:19:00,119
you know, it's very hard to
pin things down life that really and also

855
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:05,920
you know, even the thing is
it's easy to make fun of psychological explanations,

856
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:13,239
but the human mind is pretty complex, and you know it can cause

857
01:19:14,039 --> 01:19:16,640
real effects on your own body.
You know, if you believe, if

858
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:23,000
you've got very negative thoughts, you
know, it can have a detrimental effect

859
01:19:23,079 --> 01:19:26,760
to your health in reality and not
just you know, a fantasy thing.

860
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:35,000
So you know, things can be
explained by extreme psychological conditions or distressful or

861
01:19:35,039 --> 01:19:44,760
strange experiences. So whereas I think
Kathleen is more keen on setting it and

862
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:48,359
something about was something physical and not
some boats. But you know it might

863
01:19:48,399 --> 01:19:55,520
be misquoting of books, you know. I think that's why you know,

864
01:19:56,079 --> 01:20:00,680
you get you get five yu folages
and you get five different it's opinions.

865
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:04,680
Really, yeah, the dynamics of
it. Yeah, well that happens in

866
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:11,279
anything really, you know see that? Yeah, yeah, well that's interesting.

867
01:20:11,319 --> 01:20:14,960
And what do you think? You
know, someone in the chat room

868
01:20:15,079 --> 01:20:17,279
a while ago, and a lot
of times I can put um, you

869
01:20:17,279 --> 01:20:21,479
know, I can put things up
on the screen so we both can see

870
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:25,520
it, you know, like they
can to pop that up like that.

871
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:30,560
But anyway, um, someone said, what about evidence in the chat room?

872
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:33,520
There's not you know, I mean
what type of you mentioned earlier that

873
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:38,039
if only you know, Betty could
have grabbed a book, you know that

874
01:20:38,199 --> 01:20:42,560
was supposedly she had her hands or
whatever. You know, I guess that

875
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:45,560
would be a game changer if we
had something that couldn't be explained. But

876
01:20:46,119 --> 01:20:51,520
what besides implants that people claim that
they're getting, is, does anybody ever

877
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:55,479
talk about any other type of evidence? You know, I mean it's kind

878
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:59,920
of like the UFOs. It's hard
to gather evidence on you know, it's

879
01:21:00,159 --> 01:21:04,199
for video and radar and you know, but I mean physical evidence. Yeah,

880
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:10,880
people have collected alien writing. I
think Budd Hopkins in particular did,

881
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:16,760
but I think with a villa supposed
case Amber Beet in Barney Hills case saw

882
01:21:17,199 --> 01:21:23,640
sort of alien writing. And you
know, different people of views gone into

883
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:31,079
trances or even done automatic writing allegedly
from alien sources, and we always tend

884
01:21:31,119 --> 01:21:36,439
to look like Hiy glyphics. And
it also links with even rosswell, the

885
01:21:38,039 --> 01:21:44,319
the sort of strange beams of wood
found at the wreckage site, they had

886
01:21:44,359 --> 01:21:49,800
Hiroy glyphics on them. So since
to be a theme of any alien craft,

887
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:55,760
since to have that type of writing
above any other sort. So I

888
01:21:55,800 --> 01:22:00,000
suppose in a way, I think
Bud Hopkins actually kept a a booklet of

889
01:22:00,119 --> 01:22:05,319
alien writings like that, so that
when he came across a new case he

890
01:22:05,399 --> 01:22:13,880
could compare their alien writings with the
ones he already had collected. I think

891
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:19,960
it was even a project to investigate
Anian writings, but I don't think we

892
01:22:20,079 --> 01:22:27,439
came to any solid conclusions where they
I suppose it's getting enough of this material

893
01:22:28,039 --> 01:22:33,560
to be able to to do any
analysis on it. And I suppose another

894
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:38,039
thing is if it is alien,
perhaps you know, it might be so

895
01:22:38,239 --> 01:22:43,239
beyond our human comprehension, but we
will never you know, crack the code

896
01:22:43,279 --> 01:22:50,880
anyway. And you know, it's
also interesting Bover with a bet in Barney

897
01:22:50,960 --> 01:23:00,560
hillcase. So what was some anomalous
radar returns that night? But forn't really

898
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:06,079
got a lot of detail about them. I would sort of dismissed as sort

899
01:23:06,079 --> 01:23:12,600
of radar and knowledgies, but it's
just a bit of a coincidence that happened

900
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:18,960
on the night of their experience.
But that seems to be something we always

901
01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:24,319
seem to be trying to find any
solid evidence, and it seems to be

902
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:30,359
elusive. And that's why, you
know, especially if you're a believer,

903
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:34,359
you know, you can believe people's
testimony. But I suppose if you're a

904
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:40,199
skeptic, there's plenty of room for
you just to dismiss it because it doesn't

905
01:23:40,199 --> 01:23:45,399
fit in. You know, we've
not some boat, spacecraft or any anything

906
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:49,640
like that. Yeah, I just
want to post this up here because I

907
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:57,560
think this gentleman here is making I
believe it's a gentleman address to you have

908
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:01,840
to remain ignostic or you'll end up
engaging and belief system belief systems. I

909
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:08,479
think that's a really good statement because
it's true. We all have to approach

910
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:11,960
this, you know, whatever it
is, because you know, we're not

911
01:24:12,079 --> 01:24:14,279
actually going to come up with the
answers. I mean, I don't.

912
01:24:14,319 --> 01:24:17,600
I don't feel we are. And
what do you feel about that statement?

913
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:20,840
I think it's a good one myself. Yeah, I think it's a good

914
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:25,880
one. But I think it's a
bit like a Russian doll as belief systems

915
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:30,439
and belief systems, so I think
you're outside of the UFO belief system,

916
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:34,399
but when you get kind of sut
into the kind of skeptic belief system or

917
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:42,479
a magical belief system or you know, spiritual one. So in a way,

918
01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:46,479
I suppose it's best if you're just
aware of these different things. And

919
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:55,640
sometimes you know it's it's with me
because I was originally a kind of believer

920
01:24:55,720 --> 01:25:01,199
in the UFOs and contact cases,
you know, I can look at it

921
01:25:01,279 --> 01:25:08,399
from a different viewpoints really, Whereas
I think if you've dismissed from as rubbish

922
01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:13,800
from the start, you're not really
going to enter into this subject. And

923
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,159
you know, a lot of wacky
things and weird things in the subject,

924
01:25:17,279 --> 01:25:24,000
so you know, I think you've
got to be aware of what's going on.

925
01:25:24,039 --> 01:25:28,520
And it also there's lots of different
belief groups within uthology. You know,

926
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:33,640
I've mentioned, you know, contact
teas and abductees and vembers of scientific

927
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:42,039
uthologists and you know, more mystical
lad uthologists sort of, you know people

928
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:50,760
I suppose, in European viewpoint a
more psychological and sociological uthologists, you know.

929
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:56,720
So I suppose in a way,
it's just being aware of, you

930
01:25:56,760 --> 01:26:01,119
know, different belief systems that are
going on, and you know, to

931
01:26:01,159 --> 01:26:06,079
embrace some rather than props ignal of
them sometimes. Yeah, yeah, that's

932
01:26:06,159 --> 01:26:09,960
right. I just wanted to let
everyone know, and we already have a

933
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:14,600
call coming in Loops. It just
they just hung up themselves. It looks

934
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:17,600
like a car calling back. So
the number is up on the screen and

935
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:23,479
YouTube. But if you're over at
kg R a radio, I think they're

936
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:28,000
having trouble getting through because they hung
up twice. But anyway, that number

937
01:26:28,159 --> 01:26:32,960
is eight five five four seven two
five four eight three. Hopefully it'll work

938
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:38,560
this time. There's a man in
black topped in the lines. I think,

939
01:26:40,439 --> 01:26:42,680
yeah, it looks like this.
It's hanging in there. So that

940
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,319
call is going to be ready.
And it's Andy who's called the number of

941
01:26:45,359 --> 01:26:53,279
times. Always has some pretty good
points that he makes, and so let

942
01:26:53,359 --> 01:26:57,680
me just put you here and we're
going to take Andy on the air in

943
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:00,680
just a second here as soon as
I can move a window over here.

944
01:27:02,239 --> 01:27:06,039
Andy, Welcome to the show.
Andy from Connecticut. Hi, Martin.

945
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:11,520
Hi. My question for Nigel is
is kind of an easy one for him

946
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:15,880
to answer. I would imagine what
are his thoughts on the fact that,

947
01:27:16,359 --> 01:27:20,600
you know, with the abduction phenomenon, it doesn't matter what year it occurs

948
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:28,800
or where in the world it occurs, that the abductee reports generally the same

949
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:34,439
circumstances, the same procedures, And
I'd like to hear his thoughts on that,

950
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:40,760
but as always, and I'll listen
for the answer off the air.

951
01:27:41,279 --> 01:27:44,159
All right, Andy, thanks for
the call. Okay, bye bye.

952
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:49,479
Hi. Yeah, I can mentioned
before you pull out it seem that just

953
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:55,840
seemed to be a kind of template
for alien interruptions. You know, people

954
01:27:55,840 --> 01:28:01,880
are captured and investigated. I suppose
it's a scenario, but you might take

955
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:06,159
spects really from a you know,
if you're being debarred the craft, you

956
01:28:06,199 --> 01:28:10,600
know, there's only certain amount of
things that might happen to you and then

957
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:18,680
be beam back. And also a
lot of fiction about alien abductions it's very

958
01:28:19,039 --> 01:28:24,720
similar, perhaps a bit more.
It can be more exciting and a bit

959
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:30,560
more detailed. Really, some abduction
reports can be Yeah, we have that

960
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:35,840
sort of thrilliant element to it that
sort of film producers had to them.

961
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:45,840
But yeah, I think also people
originally used sort of a betting Barney hillcas

962
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:51,760
as a template for their experiences,
and then it's sort of evolved more into

963
01:28:53,199 --> 01:29:02,079
people being beamed aboard and having implants
and having suffer from screen memories and different

964
01:29:02,079 --> 01:29:08,520
things like that. More elements have
been added to abduction stories, so we

965
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:16,119
have changed over time. But it's
interesting, same with things like grays years

966
01:29:16,119 --> 01:29:21,479
ago, nobody ever so it's finly
grays with large eyes, and now you

967
01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:28,279
know, that seems to be the
main sort of alien being that people report.

968
01:29:29,359 --> 01:29:36,119
Some people say such things give you
a kind of authorized myth, so

969
01:29:36,319 --> 01:29:43,880
that if you do have strange experiences, you have already made template to fit

970
01:29:44,159 --> 01:29:48,920
by those strange experiences into, you
know, like if you see a light

971
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:53,960
in the sky, like now,
we might first thing, oh, is

972
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:59,199
it an aircraft? Is it a
weather balloon? Is it venus? And

973
01:29:59,279 --> 01:30:02,079
then if it do something really weird, we'll think it's is it a flying

974
01:30:02,159 --> 01:30:06,720
sourcer? But I suppose in wartime
you'd think is it an enemy aircraft and

975
01:30:06,920 --> 01:30:12,960
start shooting at it? Or you
know, is it a sort of illegal

976
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:19,439
flying activities? You know. So
and back in the turn of a back

977
01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:26,039
in nineteen o nine in Britain,
people sort phantom airships, which you know

978
01:30:26,159 --> 01:30:30,720
a lot of them were basically lights
in the sky, but people believe there

979
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:35,039
were German and Zeppelins come into,
you know, search out the land in

980
01:30:35,159 --> 01:30:43,760
preparation for invasion. So, um, what what we might experience might be

981
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:48,279
the same, but how we interpret
it depends on you know, the social

982
01:30:48,479 --> 01:30:58,479
setting and perhaps on you know,
our own sort of psychological um viewpoints as

983
01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:01,079
well. You know, how stressed
we hour and what you know, whether

984
01:31:01,199 --> 01:31:08,720
we're um interested in science fiction or
not, or you know, other aspects

985
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:15,039
of a human condition can affect you
know, how all these weird things are

986
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:20,359
interpreted. Yes, yeah, we
have a caller coming and I'm just waiting

987
01:31:20,399 --> 01:31:26,399
for um for it to be screened. Uh yeah, that's uh, that's

988
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:33,920
all all really good good points.
And um, hang on, I'm waiting

989
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:39,199
for this thing to be screened.
Um. I did mention Bill to screen

990
01:31:39,279 --> 01:31:41,840
a little extra. Um, I
guess they wanted to talk about something.

991
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:45,199
I told them that we can't talk
about so they're gone. So that line

992
01:31:45,319 --> 01:31:50,680
is open again. That's eight five
five four seven two five four eighty three

993
01:31:50,840 --> 01:31:56,520
not gonna bring up the move on
topic UM tonight and then so if anyone

994
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:59,079
wants to call about that, that's
that's not going to happen. I'm afraid.

995
01:31:59,119 --> 01:32:04,399
I'm sorry, m But what do
you think about um? You know,

996
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:09,560
I mean we've we've often talked about
we want, you know, science

997
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:15,520
to take the UFO thing more seriously, and there are some there's kind of

998
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:20,359
a movement in that direction, but
you really don't hear anyone talking about the

999
01:32:20,520 --> 01:32:27,079
abduction part as far as trying to
get more evidence about that or do you

1000
01:32:27,319 --> 01:32:31,319
do you ever hear anything about that? Um? No, because I suppose

1001
01:32:31,399 --> 01:32:34,840
in a way, a lot of
the latest things have things, you know,

1002
01:32:35,039 --> 01:32:41,800
like being filmed by jet fighters and
you know, TikTok euphos and things

1003
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:45,880
like that. I mean, we
don't really seem to fit the abduction scenario.

1004
01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:50,319
And you know what one reason might
be about, you know, abductions

1005
01:32:50,359 --> 01:32:57,720
have been actually created by the CIA
to cover other events or to explore the

1006
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:02,760
possibilities of brain rushing in the past. Um. You know that might be

1007
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:10,319
true in some abduction cases, but
um, like with a Betting Barny Hill

1008
01:33:10,399 --> 01:33:15,720
case, it seems highly unlikely because
they'd gone on their trip to Canada and

1009
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:20,319
back almost on a whim, so
would have had to be constantly tracked by

1010
01:33:20,399 --> 01:33:29,319
the CIA and you know and tracked
you know, for ages before we could

1011
01:33:29,359 --> 01:33:34,520
actually you know, some brain rushwomen
too. Thinking of being abducted, it

1012
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:40,199
seems a bit outlandish that would be
able to do it like that. You

1013
01:33:40,279 --> 01:33:45,359
know, we would have to be
far more organized than to be able to

1014
01:33:45,439 --> 01:33:51,880
capture somebody out random, really like
that. Um, And you know,

1015
01:33:53,279 --> 01:34:00,640
I think that's a problem really with
alien abductions. Is I suppose alien implants

1016
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:05,520
is an area that it might be
able to get some evidence, but it

1017
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:12,560
seems to be when when Versus is
retrieved, it's very minute material that's gathered

1018
01:34:13,159 --> 01:34:18,079
and you know, since you know, whether it's just you know, bodily

1019
01:34:18,279 --> 01:34:25,159
matter or you know, something that's
you know, your body's going around a

1020
01:34:25,319 --> 01:34:30,560
sort of blister or something. So
we're not the dot seem to be able

1021
01:34:30,600 --> 01:34:35,560
to do anything scientifically with the implants
if we do go old of them.

1022
01:34:36,600 --> 01:34:42,239
I think Willis Travers says that,
um, if you do have an implantment?

1023
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:46,039
When people look again, it's disappeared
again and that's removed. I've heard

1024
01:34:46,079 --> 01:34:50,960
that too. Yeah, yeah,
we have a go ahead. I'm sorry,

1025
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:57,359
did you have a thought? I
have a call from Sweden? Are

1026
01:34:57,359 --> 01:35:02,319
you ready for that? Okay,
we have Andreas from uh probably said your

1027
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:05,760
name wrong, it's how it's spelled
there from Sweden. Welcome to the show.

1028
01:35:08,039 --> 01:35:17,000
Yeah, oh, thank you,
and go ahead. Yeah. I

1029
01:35:17,159 --> 01:35:28,600
have a question. Actually it's more
of a I'm thinking of perhaps you have

1030
01:35:28,840 --> 01:35:38,439
to be experienced USO experience to believe
me. Seeing is believing, right,

1031
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:46,119
m yeah, more following you?
Yeah? Yeah? Is this what you

1032
01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:50,359
you want to talk about our UFO
in general or do you have more to

1033
01:35:50,479 --> 01:36:00,079
that question? No? I just
think it's a fundamental state man. Because

1034
01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:13,119
many people are curious about you.
Perhaps maybe you have to see to believe,

1035
01:36:14,199 --> 01:36:24,199
that's my point. Yeah, I
often say so. I believe often

1036
01:36:24,479 --> 01:36:30,880
in Facebook arguments, people you know, talk about government UFO sightings or disclosure,

1037
01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:35,439
and then they'll they will say,
well, I don't particularly care if

1038
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:41,800
the government does just disclose it or
not. I've had my UFO experience and

1039
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:47,159
I know what I've I've seen an
experienced and perhaps some modern one occasion.

1040
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:53,319
So in a way, I don't
need confirmation from elsewhere. You know,

1041
01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:59,039
we know it from inside. Um. But you know, suppose even a

1042
01:36:59,159 --> 01:37:03,560
quite a few youth favor researchers have
had experiences which has often led them to

1043
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:09,359
become an investigator in the first place. Um. You know, I've seen

1044
01:37:09,399 --> 01:37:14,239
a few odd things in the sky, but nothing that's convinced me was anything

1045
01:37:14,319 --> 01:37:18,479
extraterrestrial or anything you know beyond that. So all I can go is by

1046
01:37:18,600 --> 01:37:23,920
what what people say. And you
know, I think you know, there

1047
01:37:24,039 --> 01:37:28,680
are a lot of people out there
are you know, utterly convinced of being

1048
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:34,840
um, you know, abducted or
seen something genuinely exotic in the sky.

1049
01:37:35,159 --> 01:37:43,720
You know, yeah, anything else
you have not nigea, you have not

1050
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:56,560
experienced ufool Um. Well, like
I say, I did see something once

1051
01:37:56,760 --> 01:38:00,199
when I was in Warminster, and
I nearly become I believe, because it

1052
01:38:00,319 --> 01:38:05,680
looks so spectacular. But when I
heard the engines of it and it was

1053
01:38:06,239 --> 01:38:13,359
one of these good year glimpse So
but I could I could get a feeling

1054
01:38:13,439 --> 01:38:17,279
of what it would be like if
if it had been something exotic. Really,

1055
01:38:17,359 --> 01:38:24,840
But you know, I've I've I've
not not experienced anything like that.

1056
01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:30,479
So, uh, have you had
any UFO experiences then of your own?

1057
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:35,520
Yeah, I would like to.
I would like to address something both Andre

1058
01:38:35,720 --> 01:38:43,279
and u Um and Nigel at this
time, and that basically is, Um,

1059
01:38:44,239 --> 01:38:49,960
I don't think one has to have
a UFO experience to take this topic

1060
01:38:50,119 --> 01:38:55,760
seriously. There's so much out there
and there always has been that has been

1061
01:38:56,600 --> 01:39:00,279
really very fascinating, and you know, I had I had an experience,

1062
01:39:00,319 --> 01:39:05,039
but it doesn't mean anything. You
know, the topic has always been there

1063
01:39:05,079 --> 01:39:12,119
and has captured some people like Stanton
Friedman, you know, Stephen Bassett.

1064
01:39:12,199 --> 01:39:16,000
There's a number of people that say
they never had an experience that are really

1065
01:39:16,159 --> 01:39:20,359
taken seriously and they look at the
topic seriously. Um. There is another

1066
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:26,479
podcaster who was on my show in
twenty thirteen said he never had a sighting,

1067
01:39:26,920 --> 01:39:30,239
and now he has his own podcasts
and he keeps repeating a sighting that

1068
01:39:30,359 --> 01:39:34,760
he had as a child. So
he made up his sighting and he talks

1069
01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:38,520
about it all the time now on
He's been on TV and a few other

1070
01:39:39,319 --> 01:39:42,000
a few other times, but he's
always talking about a sighting. But on

1071
01:39:42,159 --> 01:39:45,319
my show he said, I never
had a sighting when I was a child.

1072
01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:48,600
Um, I just got interested in
the topic because I stumbled into the

1073
01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:53,680
library. And so now he says
he has a sighting because he wants to

1074
01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:57,560
be more credible. I don't think
it has anything to do with being credible

1075
01:39:57,680 --> 01:40:03,760
myself. And looking at this topic, I think, well, I stumbled

1076
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:13,479
into a topic as well through the
library. But yeah, child experiences or

1077
01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:16,920
anything like that. And I suppose
in a way, perhaps some people do

1078
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:25,680
um sor invent a UFO siting to
make it seem more credible. But I

1079
01:40:25,800 --> 01:40:30,920
think you can study a lot of
things without having to have actually experienced and

1080
01:40:30,119 --> 01:40:34,239
I think you can have a certain
amount of empathy with people, and you

1081
01:40:34,359 --> 01:40:40,399
know, you just have to bring
what you can to a subject. I

1082
01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:45,640
just find it fascinating, you know, reading about it, talking to people

1083
01:40:45,720 --> 01:40:50,760
about it, and but it is
something that's had a powerful impact on our

1084
01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:58,399
lives in the last few decades.
And you know, I think perhaps,

1085
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:03,039
you know, being an ex experience
can perhaps color a viewpoint and perhaps you

1086
01:41:03,119 --> 01:41:10,680
know, make you believe other people
even if they might not be fully truthful,

1087
01:41:10,880 --> 01:41:14,520
you know, And like I say, some people, you know,

1088
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:19,439
perhaps who make up things might in
time come to believe what they've said anyway,

1089
01:41:19,479 --> 01:41:26,720
and you know, who knows really
unless you've got some evidence forever back

1090
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:31,159
in time. Perhaps that's what happened
to a lot of these contacts are made

1091
01:41:31,239 --> 01:41:38,039
up things and then um, you
know, come to believe their stories,

1092
01:41:38,079 --> 01:41:43,439
and often their stories got more fantastic
over time. And you know, I

1093
01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:48,680
think with you know, modern media
today, you know there's a big outlet

1094
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:54,840
for people to tell their stories.
And you know, TV always like,

1095
01:41:56,000 --> 01:42:00,880
you know, new characters and new
people who've got amazing stories to tell.

1096
01:42:01,319 --> 01:42:10,359
But yeah, if you if you
just more an optimistic skeptic on myself,

1097
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:15,680
you know you kind of so kind
of exposure really, I like that optimistic

1098
01:42:15,840 --> 01:42:20,880
optimistic skeptic. We have Brian calling
from New Jersey. Brian, Welcome to

1099
01:42:20,920 --> 01:42:26,880
the show. Hey, how's it
going, guys? Good? Good?

1100
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:32,439
So far great? You have a
question for our guests. Yeah, the

1101
01:42:32,520 --> 01:42:35,560
reason I'm calling in is, uh, just the backtrack a bit. You

1102
01:42:35,640 --> 01:42:44,760
guys were getting into um implants,
right, and from what I know,

1103
01:42:45,319 --> 01:42:51,079
the best scientific data that's really been
offered so far have been the late Roger

1104
01:42:51,239 --> 01:42:56,840
Lear. Yeah, and uh,
I don't know if you guys are familiar

1105
01:42:56,920 --> 01:43:00,439
with him. But basically, um, long story short, there was radiometric

1106
01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:08,159
analysis done on implants that were removed, and according to the read out,

1107
01:43:08,279 --> 01:43:12,720
what they were saying was that whenever
these things were made of that they don't

1108
01:43:12,720 --> 01:43:19,399
come from our neighborhood of the galaxy. And then besides that there was basically

1109
01:43:19,560 --> 01:43:25,039
radio waves emitting from these devices allegedly
as well. So I just wanted to

1110
01:43:25,079 --> 01:43:27,880
get your guys, like, you
know, synopsis and opinion on that,

1111
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:30,199
and I'll take my answer off the
air, all right, Brian, thanks

1112
01:43:30,199 --> 01:43:36,199
for the call. All right.
M Yeah, implants is something that kind

1113
01:43:36,239 --> 01:43:41,600
of came up in the nineteen eighties
and doctor Leah did quite a lot of

1114
01:43:43,439 --> 01:43:49,800
the basic research into this. But
yeah, one criticism was that it never

1115
01:43:50,239 --> 01:43:57,439
got any of this material in a
reviewed scientific journals. But because it's such

1116
01:43:57,479 --> 01:44:00,960
an outlandish thing, perhaps want to
accept it anyway, you know. And

1117
01:44:01,079 --> 01:44:08,159
some some implants have just been of
mundane things. Sometimes you can get things

1118
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:13,479
under your skin, you know,
Lad it's a metal or something, and

1119
01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:18,000
you know it could be mistaken for
an implant. But you know, some

1120
01:44:18,159 --> 01:44:26,760
people are postulated implants have been there
to guide people than to be communication devices

1121
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:31,119
between them and the aliens, and
you know, people have gone to you

1122
01:44:31,199 --> 01:44:40,000
know, regard them as quite exotic
pieces of technology, perhaps in a way

1123
01:44:40,079 --> 01:44:47,359
our own beyond our own technological reason. In any way, I did speak

1124
01:44:47,439 --> 01:44:53,920
to somebody not that long ago,
and it's got an implant and is convinced

1125
01:44:54,960 --> 01:45:00,680
but it would put inside and buy
aliens. And they add several sightings when

1126
01:45:00,760 --> 01:45:05,000
he was a teenager, and that's
when he got the implant. And he

1127
01:45:05,079 --> 01:45:12,600
says whenever he goes to airport airports
about it is that was triggering the metal

1128
01:45:12,720 --> 01:45:16,880
detectors. But it doesn't. It
kind of likes the fact that it's got

1129
01:45:16,920 --> 01:45:20,920
an implant, but it doesn't want
it scientifically examined. You know, he

1130
01:45:21,039 --> 01:45:26,520
just likes to believe it is an
alien implant and that if somebody is special,

1131
01:45:27,079 --> 01:45:32,119
but it doesn't want it to be
subjected to any further examination beyond that.

1132
01:45:32,880 --> 01:45:38,159
And you know, I suppose in
a way, if if if you

1133
01:45:38,319 --> 01:45:43,760
wanted to conduct a real scientific study
of abduction, you know, implants would

1134
01:45:43,800 --> 01:45:48,880
be one of the best things to
study. But you know, you know,

1135
01:45:49,279 --> 01:45:54,800
it's it would be looking at you
know, how do you determine what's

1136
01:45:55,800 --> 01:46:00,800
you know, alien technology using our
own technology? You know, what a

1137
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:06,840
Victorian understand, you know, Tom
it reacts to those you know, yes,

1138
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:13,600
you know what elements of right right? Um, you know, getting

1139
01:46:13,640 --> 01:46:18,439
back to uh, the topic of
you know, the grays, because I

1140
01:46:18,560 --> 01:46:25,000
think that's that's another fascinating uh subject
because you know, for instance, the

1141
01:46:25,159 --> 01:46:30,359
Zimbabwe Arielle school incident. Um.
You know, they weren't described at all

1142
01:46:30,760 --> 01:46:35,560
like that nineteen ninety two. They
were more like porcelain skin um one with

1143
01:46:36,159 --> 01:46:41,800
long, strange black hair. Uh. You know the almond the big oval

1144
01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:45,039
almond eyes. You know that that's
one thing that's mentioned a lot. But

1145
01:46:45,159 --> 01:46:46,920
I just wanted to ask you this, uh, if you've looked into this

1146
01:46:47,199 --> 01:46:54,640
part of it, was there ever
any grays mentioned before the Whitley Streeber book

1147
01:46:54,720 --> 01:46:59,840
Communion came out? You know,
well, no, I found I think,

1148
01:47:01,119 --> 01:47:05,960
you know, different who are as
variety of different aliens seeing you know,

1149
01:47:06,119 --> 01:47:14,520
mainly kind of little dwarfs, dwarfs
and Nordic types. And yeah,

1150
01:47:14,760 --> 01:47:18,000
I don't really I'm not really aware
of that many grades, I suppose,

1151
01:47:18,920 --> 01:47:24,119
but Bet in Baldy hillcase and nearly
like the grades, but like Thatt is

1152
01:47:24,199 --> 01:47:32,319
sever more like human creatures when grays
and I think something like close encounters of

1153
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:39,039
a thaird kind of help establish a
sort of vulnerable sort of a large eyed

1154
01:47:39,199 --> 01:47:44,239
alien, and you know about sort
of a bit creepy as well. And

1155
01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:50,279
you know, I've come I've come
across a lot of cases where the aliens

1156
01:47:50,279 --> 01:47:55,920
are being completely different. It's also
interesting, you know, back in the

1157
01:47:56,079 --> 01:48:01,079
fifties, like with Brazilian cases,
but a lot of the entities were in

1158
01:48:01,279 --> 01:48:08,840
space suits, and that was true
throughout the sort of sixties and seventies,

1159
01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:15,079
and then like the grade starts into
needs space suits. And one case I

1160
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:21,199
spoke to a person about what the
fact that she said her son saw these

1161
01:48:23,279 --> 01:48:26,920
aliens come out of of a UFO
of that landed on the roof of a

1162
01:48:27,079 --> 01:48:33,560
school. But the aliens were like
in goods and space suits with umbilical cards

1163
01:48:33,600 --> 01:48:41,560
attached to the spaceship. But they
didn't have any arms, and so they

1164
01:48:41,640 --> 01:48:45,560
were quite unusual. You know,
it sound like, you know, something

1165
01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:50,159
like space beings. But you know, I don't think there's that many are

1166
01:48:50,239 --> 01:48:56,600
reported without arms, and you know, will be a bit difficult to control

1167
01:48:56,680 --> 01:49:04,279
the spaceship. I should imagine without
them tortallepathy. But you know, there

1168
01:49:04,399 --> 01:49:12,479
are reports of aliens are faceless or
you know, I'll look like I said

1169
01:49:12,479 --> 01:49:17,479
with the Alan Godfrey case, they
looked like a dog like entities. So

1170
01:49:19,119 --> 01:49:24,239
yeah, well, I think if
you look back and nod ufo books and

1171
01:49:24,359 --> 01:49:32,039
magazines for variety of alien types of
quite wide ranging, whereas now the kind

1172
01:49:32,119 --> 01:49:40,720
of conform to grays um. And
you know, perhaps it's also interesting like

1173
01:49:40,840 --> 01:49:47,039
if people recall sightings from decades ago, the potential report grays as in my

1174
01:49:47,279 --> 01:49:53,840
actual time period, people never reported
such things. So it's interesting how people

1175
01:49:53,960 --> 01:50:00,960
in retrospect can make their stories conform
to what we expect now. Oh um,

1176
01:50:00,399 --> 01:50:04,359
you know, so you know there
was that thing about human memory really

1177
01:50:04,439 --> 01:50:10,159
and you know, complay tricks on
us and it just shows that the subject

1178
01:50:10,199 --> 01:50:16,439
does change over time and you know
it's never a static thing, right right,

1179
01:50:16,560 --> 01:50:20,359
and uh um, you know,
I mean there's there's just so many

1180
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:26,000
different uh you know, I mean
there's there's a lot of people that have

1181
01:50:26,279 --> 01:50:29,279
you know, besides the grace of
course, if you really look into it,

1182
01:50:29,359 --> 01:50:34,039
there's people that are saying, um, you know the insect you know,

1183
01:50:34,159 --> 01:50:39,159
mantis type and you know people are
um, which I think is another

1184
01:50:39,279 --> 01:50:43,039
bizarre, bizarre thing. I don't
know what to believe in any of that

1185
01:50:43,159 --> 01:50:47,239
stuff. It's for praying mantis type
of things are quite intriguing really because of

1186
01:50:47,960 --> 01:50:55,760
symbolically quite a frightening, nightmarish sort
of entity. And you know, I

1187
01:50:55,840 --> 01:51:03,720
suppose there's a nou subgenre of people
seeing pray mantis type aliens. They tend

1188
01:51:03,760 --> 01:51:10,159
to speak quite nightmarish really, and
you know, there is a sort of

1189
01:51:10,239 --> 01:51:15,560
symbolism about different entities like with grays
are almost like we're you know how we

1190
01:51:15,760 --> 01:51:23,199
conceive of highlight communist types as a
praying mantis as well. I didn't even

1191
01:51:23,319 --> 01:51:26,119
I just I'm sorry, the time
just snuck up on us here. I'm

1192
01:51:26,239 --> 01:51:29,880
terribly sorry. We are holy out
of time, and thanks so much.

1193
01:51:29,920 --> 01:51:32,640
We'll be back next week, I
believe. With Linda Simmerman, good night,

1194
01:51:32,720 --> 01:51:35,720
Thank you very much, Okay,
good night, all right, all

1195
01:51:35,760 --> 01:51:40,039
right everyone, So see you next
week, and remember thank you for listening,

1196
01:51:40,119 --> 01:51:41,399
and keep your eyes to the sky.