Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your host,
and we have a great show with you. You know, I just bought
a brand new, pretty expensive pad. It's called something Pad from Apple for
my Mac and it just a Bluetooth. It just froze when I'm trying to
start the show here, so I apologize for those listening live. My name
is Martin Willis, I'm your host, and our guest this evening is longtime
UFO researcher Nigel Watson. He's from the UK, staying up late tonight to
discuss his new book Captured by Aliens, History and Analysis of American Abduction Claims,
and he's going to be talking about much more. He has other books.
He's been around, like I say, a long time since all the
way back in the nineteen seventies, and so it will be I'm saying,
he's been researching the topic that is since then, so it'll be great to
talk to him about all of that. Hey, guess what I have al
Jandro Rojas coming up for a few minutes and after I get done chatting away
here. And first of all, I have to say that I am happy
that I've actually sold some paintings to some of my listeners. I had three
UFO Triangle UFO paintings and they actually sold off onto Triangle destinations, one to
New York bill that helps out with the show. Another Triangle went up to
Iceland, and the other ones on the way to the UK. So I'm
actually working on underwater USO painting two usos underwater going one going into a cave.
I know that sounds pretty mysterious, doesn't doesn't it. I'm going to
try to make that look pretty interesting. So my art website banner is on
and that's Martin Willis art dot com by the way, and that's actually on
the sidebar of podcast ufo dot com. So while you're over there, you
can check out this week's blog by Charles Lear and the name of that is
Leonard Stringfield and the UFO Vortex. Also, while you're there, there's a
link to our Facebook page. You can check that out. There's twenty some
one thousand people active on the Facebook page, and Peggy helps with that puts
new stories up just about every single day, space related or UFO related.
So I encourage you to click like on that page. Anyone can support the
show, and I really do want to thank each and every one of you
that help out. We are on Patreon and that link is found also on
our website. And thanks to anyone that listens to the show. Of course,
I don't want to be talking to myself. It's believe me, it's
not pretty. So thank you all for listening. I really do appreciate it.
And for right now, we're going to bring in the one and only
Alejandro Rojas and let me just bring him on in. Alejandro, how are
you? Whoops, I'm not hearing you, man, we can't hear you.
Oh you can't hear me. Thank you very much. Yeah, you
really like to add just a little bit of stress, don't you, buddy.
I gotta mess with you a little bit. Yeah, I know.
That's what I had someone write me from actually San Rafell, California, and
I'll say hi to Sarah out there, and I used to live in San
Rafell and she listens to the show and she said, I really enjoyed Alejandro
picking on you. I believe it was her. It was either her or
someone else. So yeah, you do a pretty good job at that.
It's pretty fun. Sorry, buddy, but that's all right. I'll get
you half man and you do get me every once in a while. Yeah,
So anyway, what's going on. I would like to make an announcement
that involves us. I'm helping you out with your show. Your back your
podcast every week so and it's it's kind of long form. It's not the
old you know, twenty five minutes or whatever it used to be. Now
where we go like almost an hour sometimes, right, yeah, you're on
longer. So essentially what I'm doing is for those of you who missed the
podcast and did not realize that the podcast is back. Open Mind UFO Radio
is back. But essentially I'm doing it. You know, I'm like Martin.
Martin convinced me that I need to charge people. He's always told me
I'll give those people so much free stuff. Just kidding, but he has
you know, we do often talk how do we afford this and how do
we keep going doing this stuff when it's so expensive and difficult. So I
have begun to charge for something. So the Friday newscast where I have go
over the news of the week is Open Mind UFO Radio, and I have
a guest with me, usually Martin. At least last time it was I
had least be going but hopefully, Yeah, Martin, if you could do
Friday, we could do that again. Yeah, we'll talk about it after
see how would you do the rust of tonight? So so that's what's going
on with that. But then I also have the Rojas Report, and that's
where I do my interviews, I share analysis and or do reports. So
for example, tonight, actually at seven pm, I'm doing a report on
Spilberg and UFOs, although this is going to be for Phoenix move On,
so this is going to be shared for free to everybody. So if you
can make it, you can do that at the open Mind YouTube page or
at the Phoenix move On Facebook page. I'll be streaming that otherwise. I've
had Brian Bender from Politico. I've had Colonel John Alexander. I've had Chris
Mellon to the Stars, pretty much, the man of the hour, the
guy who essentially, I think probably had the biggest role. I think that
undoubtedly had the biggest role in getting the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence to request
from various different intelligence agencies a UAP report, and in doing so, essentially
revealed that there is a UAP task force that consists of many different intelligence agencies
looking into the UAP situation. So I was very lucky to get that interview
with Chris Mellen. I wrote a Den of Geek article focused on how Unidentified
season two is coming up, and of course I started this weekend, but
also about the influence that the Unidentified television show had on getting that Senate decision
request reporting request done so and what rule you know season two will have which
it will have a role. Essentially, Chris Mellen had a whole strategy here
that season one and season two play heavily into the show. So yeah,
that's essentially. I've got lots of great interviews. I should have luon and
if you're a member of my Patreon, you can join live and ask lu
Alisando questions. So we're scheduling that now. Hopefully that'll be this week,
but it might be next As soon as we can't I can get that nailed
down, we'll let you know. But otherwise, you I've got a lot
of great interviews and analysis coming up. You know, I made the mistake
of going on Facebook. I don't think I'm gonna do that as much,
but anyway, I went on in one of the groups and someone wrote I
think was Kurt Kurt Collins wrote something like, hey, so what everyone think
of episode one, season two of Unidentified And I wrote I loved it because
I did love it, and um, I think I wrote something like what's
not to like about it? And you can't believe the negatives of people are
saying like, hey, we just want to see, you know, real
new videos, and you know, what's up with that? We need to
see the real videos. And one other person said it was a dud.
Um, you know, unless my senses are completely wrong, I thought it
was a great show because the first time stories the production was really high production
value. So anyway, that's kind of just my thought. I agree on
everything that you just said. There. There have been a couple of people
who are in the field who kind of who I respect, who have had
the criticism that, you know, we don't need to see clips and bits
from the Nimitz events. Again, we're aware of it. But I think
at first of all, they're building on that, you know, they're building
on this investigation. That is kind of the backbone of this investigation is what
happened with Nimitz and the tic tac UFOs. So that's why that plays a
part and we have to remember, you know, it's something that I do
on my show and I do here with you. It's every time we mentioned
something, a case or something. I try to remember to also give the
background for many of our listeners who have heard these stories in a boring to
them because they're like, I know what Randalls from Forrest is, I know
what you know this or that is. But of course there's so many new
people coming into all of this. That's why we need to explain it all.
And so I don't mind that so much. I can see how people
familiar with the Nimitz situation would get forward with seeing that over and over again.
But that's only real criticism I've heard from some of the old timers or
some of the people that didn't love it, like you and I. But
you know, when you go on social media, there's always going to be
so much hate and nobody's going to be satisfied. So I think that people
don't appreciate how difficult I mean. There's a whole history on how those videos
got out, and essentially came down to luck that they were released when they
weren't supposed to be, not by Elizondo. He got permission, but who
we got permission from didn't follow all the steps. So imagine where we would
have been if we didn't have those videos in the public. Yeah, did
you hear is this a rumor that those that at least one of the videos
came out in Germany from a private contractor or something? Did you hear about
that didn't come out in Germany? What had happened was when the video came
out, there was someone it ended up. You know, one of the
places where it was house was erver for German company that does filmwork, including
some CGI stuff. Some doubt, but really it seems as though, and
the consensuses and this seems accurate, that it was someone who worked for that
company who downloaded that video and put it on their public FTP server. So
really, they say a lot of people had access to this FTP server that
they offered for people to use their clients or you know, to share files
back and forth. So it wasn't surprising to them that, you know,
they don't they weren't aware that that filed was there. They weren't sure if
it was a previous employee that had put it there or who had put it
there. But the owners of the company were not aware that it was even
on their servers and the In fact, we have an article on open Minds
from a German researcher who spoke with that company, and others who have followed
up on that have found the same thing. So that was a controversy about
that part. However, you know, it first appeared on above top Secret
the forum, and it seems that someone who had access to actually went on
board probably the Princeton or one of the aircraft or the ships that had that
in their computers and downloaded that accessed it. So the process of accessing and
downloading at and sharing it publicly is certainly, you know, something that wasn't
supposed to have been done. But it doesn't appear as though there's an ongoing
investigation. There could be, so I'm not sure if that person will get
in trouble. I've heard that the cases closed, they're not sure who shared
it and they're going to leave it at that. But yeah, okay,
one thing I did want to mention to everybody from last week, and that
is, as you know, I was speaking with Don Schmidt and all of
a sudden he vanished, He just like vanished in his phone. When I
dialed it during a break. It came up that the number was not a
working number. Well, and then so I tried everything to reach him,
and the next day he sent me an email. He did respond to me,
but it went to my spam box some one thing after another. But
anyway, Don is doing just fine. I just wanted to tell everyone what
happened was live during it was a hot day where he lives, and live
during the show, lightning struck a transformer down the road from him. His
phone and everything is hooked into this to his WiFi and all that. So
he lost everything until the next morning and couldn't couldn't communicate with anybody. So
Don is fine, and I invited him to come back on by himself.
He's coming back on the twenty eighth up in a few weeks. So I
just wanted to make sure because people were very concerned. Of course. Yeah,
it's like some people in the chat, we're afraid he was abducted.
Yeah, that came up quite a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's pretty funny. All right, alle hundred, Well all right, well
I'll be talking to you this Friday on your okay. So yeah, and
if I could share one more thing, you've got something else that you'll be
participating in that you always participate in, which is great. I've got to
mention this for my significant other, which is that the UFO Congress UFO congress
dot com. The registration for tickets is open. It'll be a live stream
event, so you'll be safe at home. But the tool that we're going
to be using. Once you go get your tickets, you're going to be
able to enter this tool and kind of see all this really cool functionality where
you can communicate and have these forms and group chats with other people and all
of this sort of thing. But of course you can also see the excellent
lineup that is forming. In fact, the lineup will be completed here very
soon, but you'll see most of the speakers up there, so really cool.
So UFO Congress dot Com to check that out, to go get your
tickets to be sure to join us, but also to see all of the
people who will be speaking, and there are some really good ones. Okay,
I do have to just gently address something, just just real quickly,
because I've got so much response about this. Something terrible did happen involving a
member of move On, and I'm not going to discuss it. That's all
I'm gonna say live right now. I don't want to give it any airtime.
It's terrible and I'm just going to leave it at that, but i
just want everyone in the chat to know that I'm not going to discuss it.
So anyway, Alejandro, thank you so much, and to leave on
a good note. Thank you, and I'll be looking forward to talking to
you this coming Friday. As always, it's always a lot of fun.
Thank you so much. Calculator, all right, you bet take care.
All right, everyone, So our guest of this evening, we have Nigel
Watson, and like I said before, he's a long time UFO investigator all
the way back. He's been investigating sightings all the way back into the nineteen
seventies, and he's published our articles in the Fourteen Times, Fate, Flying
Saucer Review, Magnonia, Magonia, and UFO Magazine. And also he's the
author of a book we're going to be talking about this evening, and the
name of that book is called Captured by Aliens. History and Analysis of American
Abduction Claims. And of course we'll be discussing much more. Nigel, Welcome
to the show. Hello, Yes, what time is it there? Twenty
first eleven that night, so it's not that bad. Yeah. I always
get a kick out when people do coast to coast and they're in England.
It's like, you know, four o'clock in the morning or something like that.
Terrible. Yeah, yeah, I did on the other week and it
was like three am in the mornings to bed before or after the event.
Oh geez. Yeah. Yeah, But thank you for being willing to you
know, be on uh. And you have a reputation of someone that does
some really good research over the years. So I want to ask you,
after bat, what made you decide to write this book on American abductions?
Um, mainly because it was a switch that came up from the nineteen eighties
with Bud Hopkins and Jay Comes some people like about to wrote best selling books
about alien abductions, and we always subject took off in popular in my nation
as well, with the X Files being very popular, and I kind of
was more of an observer of those investigations and things going on, and it
was only in the last sort of ten or fifteen years I thought it would
be worth looking back at how that research came about and what relevance it is
today and so captured by aliens is something that sort of started on quite a
long time ago, and I just started off with a few notes and observations
about it. The most intriguing thing about it is most of a major events
in uthology always seem to grow in the United States. You know, you've
got ross well and even rendered from forest and those US military personnel. So
you know, that's what made me so I think it'd be great to look
back at abduction research after you know, the dust that settled basically, yeah,
I know, well, getting a little bit of feedback coming through.
Um, I know there's the Warminster Um I used to be called the Warminster
Monster or something like that, but womin thing a thing, that's what it
was. Yeah, but there I've talked to a number of people in the
UK and they say that, you know, there aren't as many sightings in
particular because of the weather. You know, I mean, is that does
that play a key factor in your opinion? Well, where I live in
Plymouth, whether it can be very changeable. It can be sunny of a
morning, raining, the evening sunny again you know an hour or two later.
Um, so I suppose whether conditions can be very variable. Um At
one Minster's a brilliant place because there's so many hilltops nearby, and Cradle Hill
was the most popular site for people to go to look at UFOs mainly.
The saw came about in nineteen sixties something at nineteen sixty five, I think
was the year it all kicked off. And when you know, it was
easy to go up this lane and then go over as off five bar Gate
and up a little track, and at its peak, I think a few
hundred people went there. I saw. I went there in the early seventies
when it got a lot quieter, and so it seems like I always turn
up a few years late, really, but you know, there were still
quite a few interesting people about you could speak to and reminisce about what happened
there. And we um, we went up there and we sell a few
strange lights and things, but troubles are quite a lot of military camps and
exercises going on in the area. So um we did see some lights in
the sky, but we kind of concluded for sort of searchlights and flares.
But because at nighttime there are hills in the distance that you can't see,
there are roads on them. Sometimes traffic and car headlights can make it look
like the lights, you know, flaing in the sky when we're by hills.
There was a lot in the mountains and the hills. Um. You
know. As soon as I said there wasn't a lot of sightings because of
the weather, the chat room kind of kind of lit up a little bit,
um um, And and someone just let me just see if I can,
I can post these pictures upon upon the site in front of you here.
And wasn't there someone posted for sure posted wasn't there a famous abduction case
with three women in England? Are you familiar with that? Um? I
can't think of any off And to be honest, I know we're aving a
few cases involving women in Britain, but abduction cases are fairly fairly rare here
because we don't really use hypnotic regrets. You know. It was I think
for we're aving a couple of cases where women were hypnotically regressed and have a
kind of traditional um or abduction event similar to Americans. One piece of research
for about English cases is that we tend to get um tall audit type aliens
as opposed to the gray aliens and you know, we have been famous cases
involving them. Alan Godfrey policeman who who came across a landed flying saucer in
front of his police car and then he was hypnotically redressed and record being examined
inside a flying saucer. We're like dog like humanoids with dog like faces and
you know, so that was a bit different from the usual type of case.
But it was sort of highly traumatized by this incident and it's one of
a classic cases British uthology. Yeah. So actually I believe this is the
gentleman that bart my about my triangle ufo painting in the uk Um. He
says, look up the Falkirk ufo triangle nineteen ninety. I was in Scotland.
Yeah, Yeah, were numerous sightings up there in the nineteen nineties and
there was a sort of how hotbed of activity. I suppose it became very
equivalent of Mormons to have been, you know, in the sixties, and
there was something called a bonnie Bridge triangle to be an area where a lot
of UFOs were seen and I think a local counselor even said he'd been abducted
by aliens and a sort of relationships with aliens. So you know, quite
a lot was going on in the sort of nineties. I suppose a lot
of this came about because of you know, the end of a millennium really
and things like the h files and abductions and everything like that was seeing to
come into a head. And for some reason, UFOs seem to like specific
localities and in a Warminster. I suppose it's still attractive to uthologists in Britain
to go to, even if it's just with a sense of nostalgia, and
I suppose bonnie Bridges become the same. And then Scotland there is a classic
case that happened at Livingstone and a man there saw a landed ufo and these
like round objects with spikes came rolling towards him and ripped his trouds or some
ny He went unconscious and I don't think there's any abduction recollected by the person.
But that was a very unusual case and there is a book about that
by Malcolm Robinson, a British uthologist. So you know, we're are quite
a few intriguing cases. Often, you know, like a lot of these
areas really a lot of the majority of sights and sort of lights in the
sky of the occasional contact with perhaps space people and landing craft. But they
tend to be in a minority. Obviously they have the most interesting cases.
Yeah. Um, you know I didn't ask you in the beginning, you
know what cut you interest in the topic. We can talk about that later.
But while we're on the subject of basically what people are claiming abductions right
now. I remember speaking with class Faun from Sweden. He's been on the
show a number of times, and he's saying, you know, it's very
very low there. What's it like in where you're from. Do do people
talk about abductions as much as are anywhere near as much as they do in
the Usum No, I don't think people do. They're more likely to mention
you thos in terms of science fiction programs or films. Um. Yeah,
And it doesn't really come up much in conversation. Yeah, like I said,
because we haven't used it not it regressions so much as in the United
States. That might be one reason why these cases are coming up, you
know, and perhaps people are reticent about it. And also people are more
likely to go on the internet now and put their experiences on social media through
you know, in the past, people had to sort of seek and sort
of third party to write up their case or anything, whereas now, you
know, we can just put a comment on Facebook. In fact, often
you get people mentioning, oh, yeah, I had an abduction several years
ago or something. But you know, we're often we're just off from sort
of never really been um you know, interviewed or written down the case is
in any detail. Um. So that might be another reason my um um,
you know, would come across to many abduction reports as well. You
know, right, well, um, I think you know, it's it's
it's interesting. I don't really know, you know, I have uh,
like I said, when you and I were talking, I was on the
fence about you know, abduct abductions in general. Um, you know,
to begin with, and uh, you know, I just think, um,
you know, I have to have an open mind about it. First
of all, because if you know, definitely there's something going on, we
are definitely being visited from. I don't know who we're being visited from.
There's something flying around the skies, um, and there's a lot of evidence
of that. And also I have to always keep an open mind as well,
because if you know, the nature of exploration is not just you know,
observation from afar. You know, we don't do that. I'm not
saying that we can expect whatever it is to be like us. But still
it's possible these things are happening, you know, But I do I did
think it was. I always thought it was very strange that it was so
much in the US compared to other places. Yeah, it's interesting out Timmy.
So nineteen fifties, when the kind of subject took hode, the scientific
uthologists wanted to just pin it down to remote controlled craft and we're just you
know, objects that were probing us and investigating us a bit like the probose
we were sending to moon to the moon and Martin Venus and well, don't
really that much talk about alien entities. The contacts spoke about them a lot,
and people like Jackie Domsky was regularly meeting them in you know, diners
and cafes and places. And because they got so much publicity, scientific uthologies
and people like Donald o' kehoe, we're trying to promote the idea that these
were space probes that were just sort of probing and investigating us in the same
way we were probing our own solar system. And that's seeing quite logical really,
But then I suppose with a Betty and Barney Hill case and a few
other cases are very similar to it, that kind of put the catamounts of
pigeons really and people ben thought, well, if it's logical that these or
extraterrestrial craft, then another step of logic is that you know, we're being
piloted by something, you know, and not just remote remote control objects,
So you know, it became a bit more credible that there might be aliens
inside them, and then you know, another credibility lead us to think,
well, perhaps there really are abducting people to carry out research into human beings
as well as surveying our planet. So you know, I suppose by the
nineteen seventies abduction cases began to take route within you know, more sensible uquolity
beyond the contact area. So you know, it was kind of a slow
tradition transition really, and groups like Nightcap were set against abductions really, but
when faced with a bet In Barney Hill case, I think we felt that
this was something more than just a fantasy, and you know, it kind
of opened the floodgate sent for it to be acceptable within the uthology right um,
speaking of the Beady and Berney Hill case, is that when you spent
a lot of time on looking into over the years. Yes, I think
what struck me was that it was one of the first cases. I don't
think it was exactly the first one, but it was the one that really
took worldwide attention when it was publicized in John Fuller's book The Interrupted Journey.
And also it kind of as as um it reflects on modern day uthology was
still at the legacy of that case and we're quite you know, we're very
credible witnesses. But also you can track it back in time to re Anton
near villas BoA's case in nineteen fifty seven Wary he said it's a UFO when
he was playing a field at night and then a fling sorts landed near him,
and then aliens sort of dragged him into his craft. And so that
that was one of the earlier abduction cases that though uthologists felt it might have
been a fantasy, it was it was another really credible witness who persisted and
tell him the same story over over many years. Really, and it might
have helped influence the Betting Barney hillcase because water Webb, one of the investigators
of the hillcase, was pretty well aware of Brazilian cases. I don't know
if it might have been a bit of cross contamination there, but even so,
I think it showed that for Brazilian cases have opened up people's ideas to
the possibility of alien abduction. But it's interesting Antonio villas BoA's cases that he
actually had a fight with the aliens and were dragged him on board, and
same with Betty and Barney Hill. We're kind of forcibly dragged onto the craft,
whereas in later cases people are sort of beamed through walls and windows into
a craft. So the aliens have had a leap technological leap, or you
know, perhaps cases like that would have been just totally ignored by youthfully just
thinking they were too fantastic. I think it needed people like Bud Hopkins and
David Jacobs too, you know, consider the cases from a a fresh point
of view and too, And they gave him a sort of legitimacy and in
a way was still got what they've given to the subject. Really, whether
you know we agree with it or not. M yeah, I was unaware
of this nineteen fifty seven Brazilian case. I just had never heard of it
until you just mentioned it. Um, So I'm definitely going to look into
that more. But you said that he was forcibly dragged upon a craft burning.
Yeah, it was an egg shape craft, but it's kind of unusual
because it had a sort of rudder I think out the front or back,
sort of little wings, and it had a platform around it, and he
was kind of dragged up a little metal ladder, and so it sounds a
bit more like a kind of a ship or something rather and anything that can
fly very well, let alone be a spaceship. And when when he was
dragged aboard, he was the aliens had helmets on and everything, and he
was putting the room sort of gas as smoke was injected, and he was
sort of forced to have sex with an alien woman. And you know,
this was what really kind of upset you followed us at the time, thinking,
you know, it was just just some sort of male fantasy or something.
But now I think I've heard about it now that you mentioned that part.
Yeah, No, I didn't rise with him fifty seven. Yeah,
it was not long after the spoke Nick launch Teaps would say that you know,
space exploration was in the air at the time, and that you know,
spot grab a headlines throughout the world, so space issues were in everyone's
mind. And also where I've been newspaper articles about flying sources over that period,
and that encouraged Antonio Villa Spos to write of a newspaper about his story.
But he never really made any money out of it. And I've read
a sad story. But he's now buried in a unmarked grave in Brazil because
his family don't want sort of UFO supporters to come and visit his grave.
I think it's rather sad that somebody had such a pivotal role in the evolution
of uthology and abdutching cases is now you know, almost like forgotten in his
own land. I think that's quite quite sad, ending really yeah, yeah,
that is sad when that when that happens, and you know, uh,
there's been a lot of iconic people and as a matter of fact,
that's what one of our blog our blogs of this last week about Springfield is,
you know, addressing that, um, you know, some of the
some of the people from the past that we're really you know, really good
researchers. Um, and uh so you you were, you were following Bud
Hopkins, which I think is he did some pretty fascinating work. Um.
There's always one one case that baffles me because of the witnesses and everything.
And you probably heard about the Brooklyn Bridge. Oh yeah, yeah, that
one is fascinating. Do you know the details of that at all? For
some of the people that have never heard about that, I don't. I
know there was some type of celebrity or someone. Yeah, I think it
involved the head of a UN Yeah, okay, woman think was I think
she was sort of levitated, levitated out of her apartment window, and it
had some connection with the United Nations leader. But I can't remember the exact
details of it. Something started or someone wrote it, Yeah, getting attacked
by flies now, but it's a yeah, that was one of the big
cases that Hopkins put about. But some people are skeptical because it paralleled a
fictional story. I don't know if it's a story called nightfall or something like
that. But and also it was impossible to track down the people connected with
the UN to to confirm what this woman said. Um, but apparently there
were witnesses to a UFO that night for a woman, I think Linda m
Nappa Napoloney, I think she was called she was beamed out, And I
think some people didn't report seeing UTHO activity at that time. But I think
that's a frustrating thing with a lot of these kind of UTHOT cases where you
get a certain amount of detail, but it's it's very hard to confirm,
and also with it being a famous political person, even if it was true,
it'd be very hard for them to to say that that's what occurred,
you know. So so I think that's one of the problems of this type
of uthology really. And of course, you know a lot of the older
cases people are dying off, you know, Betty and Barney Hill are dead
and Antoni and Villas BoA's instead, so we've only got you know, items
in magazines and a few books really, so I think it's you know,
current cases we should regard as being more precious really before you know, anything
happens to people. Yeah, just because I haven't seen your book, haven't
read through your book, can you just kind of give a list off the
top you ahead of some of the cases that you discuss in the book itself.
Well, I do mention the Villa's first case of Betty and Barney Hill
case. I use for nearly every chapter to look at how it relates back
to the past of the future, a Travis Wolton case which became the subject
of Firing the Sky movie, Whitley Strivers experiences recounts and communion, and you
know the piscolar the Mississippi case with Hixon and Parker. But what I'm trying
to do is put put obvious material into perspective, really from a from a
historical point of view, as much as relating the cases for themselves. You
know, there's plenty of other books that tell us about the cases, but
we often neglect looking at different perspectives. Too. Many UFO books are promoting
one viewpoint chin of were extraterrestrial, of ultra terrestrials, or you know,
time travelers, or you know, usually somebody's got one theory to promote.
And I'm trying to look at them these cases from different angles really, um
and being a British uthologist or a European uthologists, we tend to look at
the social and psychological aspects of UFOs, whereas with states it tends to be
more an extraterrest viewpoint. So you know, I have mentioned quite a few
psychological explanations for cases, but what I find a problem is a lot of
psychologists mentioned sleep paralysis as an explanation for abductions. But I think that's too
you know, we're trying to use one explanation to explain a lot of things.
And I think with this subject, from you know, lights of a
skyto abductions, there was never one all embracing answer to them. You know's
usually lots of different answers to different cases. So you know, I think
you have to look at every case on its own merits, really and look
at it from a fresh perspective. And I think we've abductions. You know,
some might have a you know, explanations like hallucinations or fantasies or nightmares
and things like that. Others a far more complex and might be you know,
a combination of those things, or you know, it could be just
something really exceptional that is going on. You know, you know, that's
the thing that always encourages us to you know, research and read really,
and that you know was never the automate answer. Yeah, as now you
mentioned the case you looked at but did you also have you ever looked into
the Ala Gash incident. I think that's really a fascinating That was like for
men, young men who were camping out on a boat and we'd left a
flare burning on the shore. I went out on a boat and the a
UFO and I think we returned back to Sure and then we found the fire
had burned down a lot further of them that they had expected, So there
was an element of missing time. I think one one person sort of denied
the validity of a case, but the other three witnesses stuck to that story.
UM, and I think, um, they were hypnotically regressed, but
I'm not sure. I think they then had a sort of classic abduction experiences.
Yeah, yeah, it was one story I didn't mention in the book.
Yeah. No, I mean there's there's plenty of them. You can
only do so much in a book. Um. Yeah, that I've actually
spoken directly to our three. Actually, I'm sorry to two of the people
that were involved in that. That pretty amazing. Um. But getting back,
you mentioned the Pascagoula incident, and I just wanted to, um,
let the listeners know. I spoke with Calvin Park today and trying to get
there are two more witnesses that actually, when that whole case gain traction in
publicity, there are two people that were able to put themselves exactly. They
had this experience where they actually saw the craft the same day at a different
and a different location. But you know, going over to that and I'm
trying to get all those people on one of the upcoming shows. Hopefully they'll
be within a month or so we'll have all three people on one of the
shows. Interesting case, yeah, because I think the critics said that because
it happened there a motorway flyover, but surprising that nobody traveling past, so
I didn't see a UFO or anything. But I think Philip Mantle and Parker
himself have found where are people who might have actually seen some thing on that
day or evening, and some were traveling in cars. So perhaps it's just
taken a long time for people to realize that, you know, we've been
an abduction at the same time, because I suppose some people might have you
know, not not seen in news reports or I didn't really put any importance
on what they're signed to A lot a lot later, But it is a
bit frustrating when it does take it can take you literally decades to get confirmatory
evidence. And I suppose a frustrating thing about this case as well as that
Charles Hickson was the main spokesman Father case and Calvin Parker didn't say anything until
recent years and after the death of Hickson really, so, you know,
I think that tends to happen with a lot of UFO cases involving um more
than one person, and that you know, there's always one who was a
spokes person and then the others tend to fade into the background. Um,
you know, with a Betty and Barney hillcase, you know, Barney wanted
to repress it, whereas Betty wanted to talk about it, you know,
so very again, it was quite a bit frustrating really about you I seem
to get to two different characters involved. And I think it's good that Parker's
so I've come out and started talking about his experience because if you if you
look at his testament, you know, obviously affected him a lot, and
I think he had a nervous breakdown shortly after the case. And also it's
interesting in fact he was worried about radiation. I think both of them,
I've been exposed to eye levels a radiation that might be very detrimental to her
health. And that's one reason why the local Air Force base actually interviewed and
didn't detect any radiation on them. But it's quite interesting because Betty Hill also
said she reported her experience because she was frightened of radiation and I think they
cleaned out the car or did something where they were quite frightened about that possibility.
So being contaminated by whatever they didn't count it showed that was something you
know, it was beyond just her imagination, if you know what I mean.
They felt that something was coming from outside and you know it could affect
her health, you know, right, yeah, I know, Oh that
they had those circles like on the back of the trunk or something right bad
in Bernie Hills something. Yeah, we had amounts on the car and I
think that also put a compass on the car and it spun round, that's
right, you know, But something strange had happened to the magnetic polarity of
a car or something. But you know, it was something she was definitely
worried about. And interestingly, it was at a time when I think the
Soviet Union was trying to start atomic testing again. So you know, it's
say much in the news that, you know, because it was in the
period of a code wall in the nuclear arms race or something on people's minds,
and you know, like the contacts were always speaking to space people who
are one in us about you know, ourselves annihilating our planet and upsetting cosmic
balance of things, and so you know, I suppose, you know,
it's just something for foremost in people's minds as well. But it's just interesting
that two of the most important abduction cases do do mention radiation. I think
I think Calvin Parker actually, I think he was quick to get a shower
really to kind of clean himself off. I suppose in a way that's physically
and mentally wanting to you know, shed the experience really and so be fresh
and new again. So I think, um, you know, it does
show that whatever happened to him and to Betting Barney Hill did have some you
know, lasting the emotional and psychological effects on the you know, whatever we
think, you know might have triggered it, but certainly quite powerful events to
them. Right, We're going into break here in just a couple of minutes
and the you know the case I think i've read off the bat is Ryndelshoon
Forest when they actually had you know, traces of radiation. Is is that
our comment now you aware of? Is that a common thing that for like
evidence trace evidence of some landings. Yeah, we got interested in the subject.
We were always you know, people were getting Geiger counters. So if
anyone ever saw landing traces that would come a Geiger counter. I think it's
because always stories of you know, atomic powered flying saucers. Really so it
was a kind of assumption that we use atomic power and so we would leave
traces in the ground. Um, it's people, there's space, gravity and
time. I think it was called a something that a book by Leonard Crump,
and he spoke about propulsion systems like that, which was very popular in
Britain. So it was something people did think about in terms of flying sources.
I suppose it was logical that that is the most modern type of propulsion
system. And you know, obviously it was something at least you could it
was something tangible for you to try and check. Why you say, with
Randall Shaun Forest they did have a guide a counter out to as we're sort
of seeing flying sources in the sky. So yeah, that's the implication,
really, I suppose. Yeah, all right, it's time for us to
go in to break out. I know Cash Landrum there was an issue there
too, Right, we're going to go into the break and hanging any shoot
YouTube, We're going to play Betty Hill for you during this break, so
over at KGr A radio. We'll be back right after these messages. Betty
Hill claims she and her husband Barney were abducted while driving through New Hampshire in
nineteen sixty one. Her full story was only revealed when she was hypnotized.
She said a spacecraft blocked the road in front of them. She and Barney
were taken aboard by its crew of aliens. There was one person there who
spoke English in a very limited way, who kept trying to reassure us that
no harm was going to come to us. They just wanted to do some
simple chests. Both of our exams were very similar and most parts, and
that they were very interested in our eyes, ears, nose, throat.
They scrapings of a ski and say of a hair, and I'm interested in
a feet. Then with me they did what they called testing my nervous system,
and he tried to insert a needle like instrument into my navel, which
he called a pregnancy test, and it caused pain, so they stopped doing
it. They did not all look alike. They ranged in heights probably four
forty five feet as far as appearance. They had no hair and no protruding
part of the ear. They had large eyes, small dose thin slipped for
a mouth. They were all basically dressed alike in a one piece dig outfit.
But some are wearing jackets, but not all of them. Some were
wearing caps, but not all of them. If you've been abducted, you
know something I U will has happened, you go to the police. Every
real abduction I worked with has gone directly to the police within five hours.
And not only that, these people who think they've been abducted it happened a
real abductions. They always take some possession belonging to the person. About six
weeks after our abduction, Money and I came home one night and on the
kitchen table with a pile of dry leaves and my blue earrings I was wearing
that night, So we knew they knew where we lived, all right,
welcome back. This is Martin Willis and I'm with my guest tonight, Nigel
Watson from the UK. And that was quite an interesting clip with Betty.
Some things I didn't ever hear her. I didn't actually watch that clip.
I found it and quickly I just loaded it. But had you ever heard
of people having things that were missing? Yeah, with her case, quite
a few spooky things happened to her. I think a neighbor said she saw
some of men in black hanging around her house long after the incident. Remembers
of things about the earrings and the leaves being left on the dining room table
or the kitchen table, and you know, like she says, it was
like a mark about the aliens knew where she lived, which is quite chilling
really. And I think Betty went on to have a lot more UFO experiences
after that. I think she used to regularly go on skywatches and saw all
types of different UFOs and I think she also saw like pumpkin head identities as
well. But you know, most attention has been focused on the i've An
incident. Some people think she kind of got a bit carried away with a
subject. But she did publish a book which she called euphos and common Sense,
and in a way she did. She was sort of skeptical of a
lot of modern day abduction cases, and you know, she hated the fact
that some people came up to Savord seen aliens exactly like the one she'd seen,
when really they were describing the sort of modern day Grade type. But
she saw more human looking aliens that weren't anything like the grades really, So
you know, her case was a little bit different from a lot of the
cases in a sort of eighties and nighties. And I think that's why her
case is so interesting, because it has so many elements really, you know,
things you know, like missing time and being prode by wires and a
needle inserted into a navel. And it seemed like people like Hawkins and Jacobs
have said, you know, the aliens seem to be overly interested in us
of reproductive organs that rather than you know, we never seemed interested in our
heart or even our brains. You know, we seem to be mum,
which has led some to think about the aliens and sort of trying to breed
hybrid babies of things. But you know, the antony of the suppose case
and for Betty and Barny Hill Case kind of bring those issues into focus really,
but you know, we're not just like well even with contact tease who
were shown around the craft, but we usually they had contact with like beautiful
space people and some did say we had relationships with beautiful space within them things,
so you know there was that element, but they were more like the
movie science fiction sort of stories rather than you know, more nightmarish elements of
the Hillcase. M hm um, well, uh, yeah, that that
is really something. One of the things that she did say, though,
she said when she was describing them is that, um, you know there
she didn't really notice the ears. A lot of people say that about you
know, the graz or other type of things that they see, and also
a very small slit for the nose or something like that or I think she
said something like that, and that's also similar to what people have. Yeah,
it's also interesting sort of where sees awhere uniforms, you know, with
a lake trapped in cases, the spacecraft always seem to be very sterile environments.
They never have lounges and TV screens for recreation. They always seem to
be rather code places with examination tables and sort of reception rooms and perhaps control
rooms, but very rarely is there something like a cinema room or recreation rooms
or anything suggesting that they've got sort of life beyond their mission, if you
know what I mean. A so some people think the grays are almost like
robots, really are around the drones like yeah, But I think with Betty
Hill, she had quite a conversation with a leader and other craft and was
a bit of mixture of telepathy and speech, and you know, she try
to recover a book from the aliens, and she nearly got away with it,
but we took it off before she could take it away. And you
know about something like the old fairies stories of a past where somebody goes into
an enchanted circle of fairies and there's a way in fairyland for what they think
is only a few minutes or days, and we come back home to find
the been away for years, and they're often they often try and take something
fair from fairyland to proof we've been somewhere different in it, either stopped from
doing that, or wherever they retrieve when we get home turns to dust or
ashes. So you know, there ares of historical aspects of such events,
and perhaps it's something so always happened to humanity that people believe have been taken
away by you know, aliens or witches or fairies or you know, some
enchanted land. And you know, it's something that's in our fiction as much
as our folklore. And I think we've bet in Barney Hill UFO it's quite
you know, a place of examination, and that's a control room where Betty
saw a famous stormap which is again you know, an area of controversy,
you know, and some people have finded out its seat to ridiculium, but
others have said it might have represented our solar system, and others have said,
you know, it's just you know, because it's recorded from hinautic regression,
it doesn't really have much solid foundation in fact. And I think Shall
Valley in particular said, you know, why should advance space beings have a
space chart like you know, it's something an ode pirate ship might have,
but not on modern day space vehicle, you know, even our own cause
of GPS now and we don't really use maps like we used to. Perhaps
as as to anode space ship. Yeah, if you start sur for decoration,
well I was I was one of the things that One of the things
I was impressed, actually impressed by SETI that they actually did was he actually
pointed their telescopes to Zeta particular to see if they could pick any signal up.
Speaking of that, I have to mention something because something went wild on
social media on the internet a couple of days ago, and because SETI posted
on their site, but it was it was satire, because The Onion wrote
that The Onion, which is basically a satire site, wrote an article saying
that SETI has been picking up signals every fifty minutes and it's a classic rock
and it was just this satire and SETI posted on their own website as as
a joke saying this is on the Onion and all that. So many people
took that serious. It's unbelievable. It was a joke everybody. So,
yeah, I think that's a problem with joking on the internet. Is that?
Uh, same with me. You read the headline and then you might
not just solve gloss over the rest of a taste exactly. Yeah, I
think, oh, it's that true, and then you go back and read
it and you think, oh, you know, it's you know, made
up story or something, and I suppose social media is sort of notorious for
that. And you know, I think quite a few kind of UFO stories
to start off as Joe Sorry, April fool things, and then we're kind
of infiltratement into euthology, and so people forget where it originally came from,
and then you know, you have to kind of do a massive a lot
of work to find out where where it came from. If yes, there's
a number of things like that, like, for instance, Alexander the Great,
you know UFO sighting, Well, there's a lot of people that think
that was factual, but that when that was deeply researched, it only goes
back to I believe in nineteen fifty two. It was in it was in
a book, you know, as uh and went went from there. That's
as far back as you can find it. So yeah, yeah, myth
becomes reality a lot of times if the story gets repeated enough. It's unfortunate
famous case of British soldiers marching into a cloud and being abducted in the First
World War, and you know, this has been repeated a lot in UFO
books, and it's based on testimony that was given by these ants soldiers celebrate
in the anniversary of the First World War. I think we wrote in the
sort of nineteen sixties and often got repeated, but were actually soldiers that did
go missing in particular time frame, but after the war were actually found in
a mass grave. And I think it was a kind of it was just
a collapse of different things. Really, were soldiers going missing, and that
was a strange cloud in the area and two things, and the testimony of
the ants at soldiers many years later got conflated until it become a classic story
of abduction in the First World. And you know, that's another example of
if you trade it back to its origins, you find that there's several different
strands to it, really, and then other writers have come along and sort
beefed up the story, and you know it does sound quite convincing, really,
and so you kind of look back at it and find out why why
the story of of these disappeared soldiers touts along to become you know, public
knowledge as well. Um, yeah, so you know, I suppose that's
another thing with anything to do with you folks so much. You know,
folks information, you know, some of it deliberate and other is just people
having fun. Really, you know, it's just uh, yeah, you
were talking a while back, you talked about um, you know that it
was strange that they knew Betty Hill's location, and this seems to come up
sometimes that. But I want to tell just quickly now, I'm doing a
book on tape for someone narrating a book that's going to come out, and
in it is an abduction story. And I hope I'm not going to get
in trouble by telling this, but it's it's an incredible story where this roommate
of this woman who's telling the story, she is in the Caribbean and she
comes back and she's totally different, and she was only gone a few days.
And so that night, that same roommate that came back from the Caribbean
asked, she said, I can't sleep alone. Do you mind if I
just stay in your bed? And she thought it was very peculiar because they
weren't really close or anything, and she said okay. And anyway, three
nights or so later, it was happening. You know, every night she
want to go. She felt scared and wanted to be in the bed.
So she wakes up in the middle of the night, she sees what she
thinks is a hall light on or something. This is not the girl that
went to the Caribbean. The roommate the one telling the story. And she
sees like a sliver underneath the door. I guess the door is up quite
a bit and she sees movement. So she realizes, you know, there's
only two people in the house and anyway, so she eventually wakes up her
roommate. She said, there's someone in the house. And the girl looks
at the door and all of a sudden they see these feet that are floating,
you could see through the bottom crack of the door, that weren't even
touching the ground. And the roommate screamed. Basically, it was an abduction
case. That she was abducted in the Caribbean, according to her, and
with the same beings, and she said they were telepathic and she was scared
to death and didn't know how to stop it. And what a scary story
that one is. They called the police. The police arrived and you know,
all the lights were off and there's no trace of any break in or
anything. I don't know what's going on, but there's there's definitely some very
strange stories that people are telling. Yeah, I find a problem when you
know, it's all right coming up with different theories, you know, like
sleep paralysis or hypnosis and hallucinations, but when you actually you know, speak
to people or see them give a testimony on film, you know, like
the clip of Betty Hill, you know, it just were so convincing really
and you know, um, you know some people might lie about it,
but I think people like better Hill, you know, genuinely experience something to
do quite eloquently told you know, what happened to them. And you know,
you know, you can't really just say to them, oh, it's
just a fantasy or something. You know, I think that's been you know,
too dismissive. And if it is just a fancy fantasy, you know,
why why you have that to fantasy? Why does it have that format?
You know, it's a piece of research Eddie Bullard did, who said,
um, looking at a lot of abduction cases, they found out there
is a sub classic scenario of you know, capture being probed and a conversation
with the aliens and being returned home. So it seemed to be a sub
classic format to these stories or experiences. And you know, very often repeat
the same themes as well, which is often hard to dismiss unless there's something
you know, some common ground with them. But we're missing in being too
rational about it. And I think there's something, you know, strange going
on. But you know what, it is going to be a wide combination
of things. I suppose none of us really have the answers, and you
know, we just have to keep looking in a scared sometimes. Yeah.
Um. You know the people that I've actually talked to, um, you
know, offline, not not not on a show, up sat across from
Travis Walton a number of times, had many conversations with him. I don't
doubt his story. There's nothing about his story that I doubt. I don't
doubt Calvin Parker in any part of the way, you know. And I
spent a lot of time with Calvin H. Parker, um and um uh
and by the way he was he was. He came back on this show
first, um was the first appearance, and I got him connected with Philip
Mannell and the whole thing. So yeah, so I was really glad that.
And Calvin keeps telling me, by the way he says, you know,
I'm all done in this thing. I'm not going to talk anymore,
and I still get him him. He's still going to be on at least
one more time anyway. But they're actually making his um, they're making a
screenplay of that situation, so that should be interesting. Yeah, I think
we're also doing UM. I think is a TV series of Betty and Barney
hillcase as well. Yes, that's Bryce Stables. That should be very good
as well. It's a very short film cover Brumby Encounter, and that's a
very good little story based on a Betty and Barney hillcase. You know,
just change the names. But it's set of the sixties, and it focuses
on the fact that we were an interracial couple and that Barney's being sort of
manhandled by the investigator who somehow thinks the abductions and sort of cover up for
him abusing his wife. You know, it's quite a neatly little, neat
little story. But if you go back to nineteen seventy five in for maybe
UFO Incident based on a Betty and Barney hillcase, and that's a very good
film about you know, their relationship of the set in and there isn't so
much about the aliens and you know, so I think it's really well done
for that period because it could easily go for cheap special effects and you know,
invaders from space and everything, whereas they made it more of a human
story. And I'm hoping this TV series will sort its flavose issues really because
you know, it's such an important case. And yeah, I'm just I
didn't like the way Project blue Book TV series featured case and it changed,
it changed the color of the different characters. And I think we have Bonnie
held false and we investigators to listen to his story at gunpoint. It just
got a bit too to Ludy Chris, I know you can have a bit
about just it license, but you know that was just just beyond you know,
we're already fantastic cases. You know why you why add such stupidness?
Really? You know, that was a bit frustrated about the way they presented
it there, So yeah, you know, I didn't want I think I
might have missed that episode or I saw. I do recall something about them
going to a big house or something, but I don't remember the details in
that particular Um blue Book episode. But I wonder what Kathleen Marden thinks of
that particular, she probably get sheet, probably got pretty upset about that.
But I'm a bit critical of some of thin of a thing she says about
the Betting Banning Hill case, even though she's obviously, you know, a
family relations so she knows not far more about you know, we have dynamics
of it anyway, and let's here, let's here what that is if you
wouldn't mind, Well, the evidence is something like you know, some Betty
Hill stress that's been you know, scientifically examined. But I think the trouble
is something that's been sitting in somebody's closet for decades and then subjected to analysis
doesn't really you know, it's just frustrating because it doesn't prove anything really,
And a problem with a lot of scientific analysis is that it doesn't really identify.
It might might be, you know, it might be a bit stranger,
but it cappined down what that strangeness is. You know, is it
just mode of fun guy or you know whatever? You know, you know,
a believer think it's caused by the fact that the dress was touched by
the alien hands and they left some sort of oil or substance on the dress,
and you know, like just markings on the car. You know,
they don't really add up to anything really, and I think it's like the
old thing of abductees trying to get hold of something like the book or a
solid object but never do. But even the landing traces are a bit unspecific,
and I think with a better in Barney Hill case, there's been a
bit dispute about where the actual landing took place. And you know, so
you know, it's very hard to pin things down life that really and also
you know, even the thing is it's easy to make fun of psychological explanations,
but the human mind is pretty complex, and you know it can cause
real effects on your own body. You know, if you believe, if
you've got very negative thoughts, you know, it can have a detrimental effect
to your health in reality and not just you know, a fantasy thing.
So you know, things can be explained by extreme psychological conditions or distressful or
strange experiences. So whereas I think Kathleen is more keen on setting it and
something about was something physical and not some boats. But you know it might
be misquoting of books, you know. I think that's why you know,
you get you get five yu folages and you get five different it's opinions.
Really, yeah, the dynamics of it. Yeah, well that happens in
anything really, you know see that? Yeah, yeah, well that's interesting.
And what do you think? You know, someone in the chat room
a while ago, and a lot of times I can put um, you
know, I can put things up on the screen so we both can see
it, you know, like they can to pop that up like that.
But anyway, um, someone said, what about evidence in the chat room?
There's not you know, I mean what type of you mentioned earlier that
if only you know, Betty could have grabbed a book, you know that
was supposedly she had her hands or whatever. You know, I guess that
would be a game changer if we had something that couldn't be explained. But
what besides implants that people claim that they're getting, is, does anybody ever
talk about any other type of evidence? You know, I mean it's kind
of like the UFOs. It's hard to gather evidence on you know, it's
for video and radar and you know, but I mean physical evidence. Yeah,
people have collected alien writing. I think Budd Hopkins in particular did,
but I think with a villa supposed case Amber Beet in Barney Hills case saw
sort of alien writing. And you know, different people of views gone into
trances or even done automatic writing allegedly from alien sources, and we always tend
to look like Hiy glyphics. And it also links with even rosswell, the
the sort of strange beams of wood found at the wreckage site, they had
Hiroy glyphics on them. So since to be a theme of any alien craft,
since to have that type of writing above any other sort. So I
suppose in a way, I think Bud Hopkins actually kept a a booklet of
alien writings like that, so that when he came across a new case he
could compare their alien writings with the ones he already had collected. I think
it was even a project to investigate Anian writings, but I don't think we
came to any solid conclusions where they I suppose it's getting enough of this material
to be able to to do any analysis on it. And I suppose another
thing is if it is alien, perhaps you know, it might be so
beyond our human comprehension, but we will never you know, crack the code
anyway. And you know, it's also interesting Bover with a bet in Barney
hillcase. So what was some anomalous radar returns that night? But forn't really
got a lot of detail about them. I would sort of dismissed as sort
of radar and knowledgies, but it's just a bit of a coincidence that happened
on the night of their experience. But that seems to be something we always
seem to be trying to find any solid evidence, and it seems to be
elusive. And that's why, you know, especially if you're a believer,
you know, you can believe people's testimony. But I suppose if you're a
skeptic, there's plenty of room for you just to dismiss it because it doesn't
fit in. You know, we've not some boat, spacecraft or any anything
like that. Yeah, I just want to post this up here because I
think this gentleman here is making I believe it's a gentleman address to you have
to remain ignostic or you'll end up engaging and belief system belief systems. I
think that's a really good statement because it's true. We all have to approach
this, you know, whatever it is, because you know, we're not
actually going to come up with the answers. I mean, I don't.
I don't feel we are. And what do you feel about that statement?
I think it's a good one myself. Yeah, I think it's a good
one. But I think it's a bit like a Russian doll as belief systems
and belief systems, so I think you're outside of the UFO belief system,
but when you get kind of sut into the kind of skeptic belief system or
a magical belief system or you know, spiritual one. So in a way,
I suppose it's best if you're just aware of these different things. And
sometimes you know it's it's with me because I was originally a kind of believer
in the UFOs and contact cases, you know, I can look at it
from a different viewpoints really, Whereas I think if you've dismissed from as rubbish
from the start, you're not really going to enter into this subject. And
you know, a lot of wacky things and weird things in the subject,
so you know, I think you've got to be aware of what's going on.
And it also there's lots of different belief groups within uthology. You know,
I've mentioned, you know, contact teas and abductees and vembers of scientific
uthologists and you know, more mystical lad uthologists sort of, you know people
I suppose, in European viewpoint a more psychological and sociological uthologists, you know.
So I suppose in a way, it's just being aware of, you
know, different belief systems that are going on, and you know, to
embrace some rather than props ignal of them sometimes. Yeah, yeah, that's
right. I just wanted to let everyone know, and we already have a
call coming in Loops. It just they just hung up themselves. It looks
like a car calling back. So the number is up on the screen and
YouTube. But if you're over at kg R a radio, I think they're
having trouble getting through because they hung up twice. But anyway, that number
is eight five five four seven two five four eight three. Hopefully it'll work
this time. There's a man in black topped in the lines. I think,
yeah, it looks like this. It's hanging in there. So that
call is going to be ready. And it's Andy who's called the number of
times. Always has some pretty good points that he makes, and so let
me just put you here and we're going to take Andy on the air in
just a second here as soon as I can move a window over here.
Andy, Welcome to the show. Andy from Connecticut. Hi, Martin.
Hi. My question for Nigel is is kind of an easy one for him
to answer. I would imagine what are his thoughts on the fact that,
you know, with the abduction phenomenon, it doesn't matter what year it occurs
or where in the world it occurs, that the abductee reports generally the same
circumstances, the same procedures, And I'd like to hear his thoughts on that,
but as always, and I'll listen for the answer off the air.
All right, Andy, thanks for the call. Okay, bye bye.
Hi. Yeah, I can mentioned before you pull out it seem that just
seemed to be a kind of template for alien interruptions. You know, people
are captured and investigated. I suppose it's a scenario, but you might take
spects really from a you know, if you're being debarred the craft, you
know, there's only certain amount of things that might happen to you and then
be beam back. And also a lot of fiction about alien abductions it's very
similar, perhaps a bit more. It can be more exciting and a bit
more detailed. Really, some abduction reports can be Yeah, we have that
sort of thrilliant element to it that sort of film producers had to them.
But yeah, I think also people originally used sort of a betting Barney hillcas
as a template for their experiences, and then it's sort of evolved more into
people being beamed aboard and having implants and having suffer from screen memories and different
things like that. More elements have been added to abduction stories, so we
have changed over time. But it's interesting, same with things like grays years
ago, nobody ever so it's finly grays with large eyes, and now you
know, that seems to be the main sort of alien being that people report.
Some people say such things give you a kind of authorized myth, so
that if you do have strange experiences, you have already made template to fit
by those strange experiences into, you know, like if you see a light
in the sky, like now, we might first thing, oh, is
it an aircraft? Is it a weather balloon? Is it venus? And
then if it do something really weird, we'll think it's is it a flying
sourcer? But I suppose in wartime you'd think is it an enemy aircraft and
start shooting at it? Or you know, is it a sort of illegal
flying activities? You know. So and back in the turn of a back
in nineteen o nine in Britain, people sort phantom airships, which you know
a lot of them were basically lights in the sky, but people believe there
were German and Zeppelins come into, you know, search out the land in
preparation for invasion. So, um, what what we might experience might be
the same, but how we interpret it depends on you know, the social
setting and perhaps on you know, our own sort of psychological um viewpoints as
well. You know, how stressed we hour and what you know, whether
we're um interested in science fiction or not, or you know, other aspects
of a human condition can affect you know, how all these weird things are
interpreted. Yes, yeah, we have a caller coming and I'm just waiting
for um for it to be screened. Uh yeah, that's uh, that's
all all really good good points. And um, hang on, I'm waiting
for this thing to be screened. Um. I did mention Bill to screen
a little extra. Um, I guess they wanted to talk about something.
I told them that we can't talk about so they're gone. So that line
is open again. That's eight five five four seven two five four eighty three
not gonna bring up the move on topic UM tonight and then so if anyone
wants to call about that, that's that's not going to happen. I'm afraid.
I'm sorry, m But what do you think about um? You know,
I mean we've we've often talked about we want, you know, science
to take the UFO thing more seriously, and there are some there's kind of
a movement in that direction, but you really don't hear anyone talking about the
abduction part as far as trying to get more evidence about that or do you
do you ever hear anything about that? Um? No, because I suppose
in a way, a lot of the latest things have things, you know,
like being filmed by jet fighters and you know, TikTok euphos and things
like that. I mean, we don't really seem to fit the abduction scenario.
And you know what one reason might be about, you know, abductions
have been actually created by the CIA to cover other events or to explore the
possibilities of brain rushing in the past. Um. You know that might be
true in some abduction cases, but um, like with a Betting Barny Hill
case, it seems highly unlikely because they'd gone on their trip to Canada and
back almost on a whim, so would have had to be constantly tracked by
the CIA and you know and tracked you know, for ages before we could
actually you know, some brain rushwomen too. Thinking of being abducted, it
seems a bit outlandish that would be able to do it like that. You
know, we would have to be far more organized than to be able to
capture somebody out random, really like that. Um, And you know,
I think that's a problem really with alien abductions. Is I suppose alien implants
is an area that it might be able to get some evidence, but it
seems to be when when Versus is retrieved, it's very minute material that's gathered
and you know, since you know, whether it's just you know, bodily
matter or you know, something that's you know, your body's going around a
sort of blister or something. So we're not the dot seem to be able
to do anything scientifically with the implants if we do go old of them.
I think Willis Travers says that, um, if you do have an implantment?
When people look again, it's disappeared again and that's removed. I've heard
that too. Yeah, yeah, we have a go ahead. I'm sorry,
did you have a thought? I have a call from Sweden? Are
you ready for that? Okay, we have Andreas from uh probably said your
name wrong, it's how it's spelled there from Sweden. Welcome to the show.
Yeah, oh, thank you, and go ahead. Yeah. I
have a question. Actually it's more of a I'm thinking of perhaps you have
to be experienced USO experience to believe me. Seeing is believing, right,
m yeah, more following you? Yeah? Yeah? Is this what you
you want to talk about our UFO in general or do you have more to
that question? No? I just think it's a fundamental state man. Because
many people are curious about you. Perhaps maybe you have to see to believe,
that's my point. Yeah, I often say so. I believe often
in Facebook arguments, people you know, talk about government UFO sightings or disclosure,
and then they'll they will say, well, I don't particularly care if
the government does just disclose it or not. I've had my UFO experience and
I know what I've I've seen an experienced and perhaps some modern one occasion.
So in a way, I don't need confirmation from elsewhere. You know,
we know it from inside. Um. But you know, suppose even a
quite a few youth favor researchers have had experiences which has often led them to
become an investigator in the first place. Um. You know, I've seen
a few odd things in the sky, but nothing that's convinced me was anything
extraterrestrial or anything you know beyond that. So all I can go is by
what what people say. And you know, I think you know, there
are a lot of people out there are you know, utterly convinced of being
um, you know, abducted or seen something genuinely exotic in the sky.
You know, yeah, anything else you have not nigea, you have not
experienced ufool Um. Well, like I say, I did see something once
when I was in Warminster, and I nearly become I believe, because it
looks so spectacular. But when I heard the engines of it and it was
one of these good year glimpse So but I could I could get a feeling
of what it would be like if if it had been something exotic. Really,
But you know, I've I've I've not not experienced anything like that.
So, uh, have you had any UFO experiences then of your own?
Yeah, I would like to. I would like to address something both Andre
and u Um and Nigel at this time, and that basically is, Um,
I don't think one has to have a UFO experience to take this topic
seriously. There's so much out there and there always has been that has been
really very fascinating, and you know, I had I had an experience,
but it doesn't mean anything. You know, the topic has always been there
and has captured some people like Stanton Friedman, you know, Stephen Bassett.
There's a number of people that say they never had an experience that are really
taken seriously and they look at the topic seriously. Um. There is another
podcaster who was on my show in twenty thirteen said he never had a sighting,
and now he has his own podcasts and he keeps repeating a sighting that
he had as a child. So he made up his sighting and he talks
about it all the time now on He's been on TV and a few other
a few other times, but he's always talking about a sighting. But on
my show he said, I never had a sighting when I was a child.
Um, I just got interested in the topic because I stumbled into the
library. And so now he says he has a sighting because he wants to
be more credible. I don't think it has anything to do with being credible
myself. And looking at this topic, I think, well, I stumbled
into a topic as well through the library. But yeah, child experiences or
anything like that. And I suppose in a way, perhaps some people do
um sor invent a UFO siting to make it seem more credible. But I
think you can study a lot of things without having to have actually experienced and
I think you can have a certain amount of empathy with people, and you
know, you just have to bring what you can to a subject. I
just find it fascinating, you know, reading about it, talking to people
about it, and but it is something that's had a powerful impact on our
lives in the last few decades. And you know, I think perhaps,
you know, being an ex experience can perhaps color a viewpoint and perhaps you
know, make you believe other people even if they might not be fully truthful,
you know, And like I say, some people, you know,
perhaps who make up things might in time come to believe what they've said anyway,
and you know, who knows really unless you've got some evidence forever back
in time. Perhaps that's what happened to a lot of these contacts are made
up things and then um, you know, come to believe their stories,
and often their stories got more fantastic over time. And you know, I
think with you know, modern media today, you know there's a big outlet
for people to tell their stories. And you know, TV always like,
you know, new characters and new people who've got amazing stories to tell.
But yeah, if you if you just more an optimistic skeptic on myself,
you know you kind of so kind of exposure really, I like that optimistic
optimistic skeptic. We have Brian calling from New Jersey. Brian, Welcome to
the show. Hey, how's it going, guys? Good? Good?
So far great? You have a question for our guests. Yeah, the
reason I'm calling in is, uh, just the backtrack a bit. You
guys were getting into um implants, right, and from what I know,
the best scientific data that's really been offered so far have been the late Roger
Lear. Yeah, and uh, I don't know if you guys are familiar
with him. But basically, um, long story short, there was radiometric
analysis done on implants that were removed, and according to the read out,
what they were saying was that whenever these things were made of that they don't
come from our neighborhood of the galaxy. And then besides that there was basically
radio waves emitting from these devices allegedly as well. So I just wanted to
get your guys, like, you know, synopsis and opinion on that,
and I'll take my answer off the air, all right, Brian, thanks
for the call. All right. M Yeah, implants is something that kind
of came up in the nineteen eighties and doctor Leah did quite a lot of
the basic research into this. But yeah, one criticism was that it never
got any of this material in a reviewed scientific journals. But because it's such
an outlandish thing, perhaps want to accept it anyway, you know. And
some some implants have just been of mundane things. Sometimes you can get things
under your skin, you know, Lad it's a metal or something, and
you know it could be mistaken for an implant. But you know, some
people are postulated implants have been there to guide people than to be communication devices
between them and the aliens, and you know, people have gone to you
know, regard them as quite exotic pieces of technology, perhaps in a way
our own beyond our own technological reason. In any way, I did speak
to somebody not that long ago, and it's got an implant and is convinced
but it would put inside and buy aliens. And they add several sightings when
he was a teenager, and that's when he got the implant. And he
says whenever he goes to airport airports about it is that was triggering the metal
detectors. But it doesn't. It kind of likes the fact that it's got
an implant, but it doesn't want it scientifically examined. You know, he
just likes to believe it is an alien implant and that if somebody is special,
but it doesn't want it to be subjected to any further examination beyond that.
And you know, I suppose in a way, if if if you
wanted to conduct a real scientific study of abduction, you know, implants would
be one of the best things to study. But you know, you know,
it's it would be looking at you know, how do you determine what's
you know, alien technology using our own technology? You know, what a
Victorian understand, you know, Tom it reacts to those you know, yes,
you know what elements of right right? Um, you know, getting
back to uh, the topic of you know, the grays, because I
think that's that's another fascinating uh subject because you know, for instance, the
Zimbabwe Arielle school incident. Um. You know, they weren't described at all
like that nineteen ninety two. They were more like porcelain skin um one with
long, strange black hair. Uh. You know the almond the big oval
almond eyes. You know that that's one thing that's mentioned a lot. But
I just wanted to ask you this, uh, if you've looked into this
part of it, was there ever any grays mentioned before the Whitley Streeber book
Communion came out? You know, well, no, I found I think,
you know, different who are as variety of different aliens seeing you know,
mainly kind of little dwarfs, dwarfs and Nordic types. And yeah,
I don't really I'm not really aware of that many grades, I suppose,
but Bet in Baldy hillcase and nearly like the grades, but like Thatt is
sever more like human creatures when grays and I think something like close encounters of
a thaird kind of help establish a sort of vulnerable sort of a large eyed
alien, and you know about sort of a bit creepy as well. And
you know, I've come I've come across a lot of cases where the aliens
are being completely different. It's also interesting, you know, back in the
fifties, like with Brazilian cases, but a lot of the entities were in
space suits, and that was true throughout the sort of sixties and seventies,
and then like the grade starts into needs space suits. And one case I
spoke to a person about what the fact that she said her son saw these
aliens come out of of a UFO of that landed on the roof of a
school. But the aliens were like in goods and space suits with umbilical cards
attached to the spaceship. But they didn't have any arms, and so they
were quite unusual. You know, it sound like, you know, something
like space beings. But you know, I don't think there's that many are
reported without arms, and you know, will be a bit difficult to control
the spaceship. I should imagine without them tortallepathy. But you know, there
are reports of aliens are faceless or you know, I'll look like I said
with the Alan Godfrey case, they looked like a dog like entities. So
yeah, well, I think if you look back and nod ufo books and
magazines for variety of alien types of quite wide ranging, whereas now the kind
of conform to grays um. And you know, perhaps it's also interesting like
if people recall sightings from decades ago, the potential report grays as in my
actual time period, people never reported such things. So it's interesting how people
in retrospect can make their stories conform to what we expect now. Oh um,
you know, so you know there was that thing about human memory really
and you know, complay tricks on us and it just shows that the subject
does change over time and you know it's never a static thing, right right,
and uh um, you know, I mean there's there's just so many
different uh you know, I mean there's there's a lot of people that have
you know, besides the grace of course, if you really look into it,
there's people that are saying, um, you know the insect you know,
mantis type and you know people are um, which I think is another
bizarre, bizarre thing. I don't know what to believe in any of that
stuff. It's for praying mantis type of things are quite intriguing really because of
symbolically quite a frightening, nightmarish sort of entity. And you know, I
suppose there's a nou subgenre of people seeing pray mantis type aliens. They tend
to speak quite nightmarish really, and you know, there is a sort of
symbolism about different entities like with grays are almost like we're you know how we
conceive of highlight communist types as a praying mantis as well. I didn't even
I just I'm sorry, the time just snuck up on us here. I'm
terribly sorry. We are holy out of time, and thanks so much.
We'll be back next week, I believe. With Linda Simmerman, good night,
Thank you very much, Okay, good night, all right, all
right everyone, So see you next week, and remember thank you for listening,
and keep your eyes to the sky.