WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:10.919 Hey. My name is Susana Castellano de Subiría and I want to welcome you 2 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:16.239 to a new episode of Sherif Side stories. Today we have a very special 3 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:23.879 episode because we close the many chapters that we have made of classical mythology, 4 00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:32.679 that is, of Greece and rom and today we have a very special guest, 5 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:40.039 Rafael Toledo Plata, who is a bibliophile passionate about opera, besides being 6 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:45.079 a lawyer and a great friend Rafa how you are welcome, Hi Susa. 7 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:51.679 Thank you so much for that generous introduction, but especially for the invitation to 8 00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:57.920 this podcast. Let' s say it has been a long journey, on 9 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:03.599 a very interesting journey, taking into account everything one has been able to learn 10 00:01:03.680 --> 00:01:08.799 from the different currents and different nuances found in classical mythology and which are not 11 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:15.159 popularly known. And that' s exactly where it comes out a little bit. 12 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:19.200 The idea of this episode rafa you that you accompanied us, because you 13 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:26.359 have made the reviews of all these episodes and that all this time, more 14 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:32.439 than a year, you have accompanied what you find interesting, what you think 15 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:38.879 is worth highlighting and what you think the myths tell us today people today. 16 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:46.359 I think it is a question with great relevance, because the first thing I 17 00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:52.200 think can be highlighted from this trip is the validity, the validity of the 18 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:59.120 classic myths and understand how, through and without entering areas and lands that do 19 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:05.920 not correspond to me, understand how the figures, the gods, the creatures, 20 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:15.919 the situations are easily transferable to a convulsed century one and two. How 21 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:22.599 this mythology or this way of seeing the world as the Greeks and humans imagined 22 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:32.479 it helps us to understand ourselves. After a few centuries, then understand one 23 00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:39.599 that at this time something as far away as the myths of the Greek gods 24 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:46.759 or the foundation of the Founding Myth of Rome, which sounds not so far 25 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:52.199 away, but actually is. I' m not going to say that you 26 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:53.960 can apply that in your day- to- day life. It is, 27 00:02:54.280 --> 00:03:01.000 in my opinion, the most that can be rescued from this journey of many 28 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:07.479 episodes, because it has not been a few, but it has not been 29 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:14.560 a difficult journey to follow, because the way one goes into myths, the 30 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:22.520 way one gets used to it and to having these gods as companions of the 31 00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:29.960 week makes one enter into a process of self- reflection and is allowed to 32 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:37.400 try to understand it from mythology. This is perhaps the most relevant thing and 33 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:44.000 what rescues the most. There is an idea of an author that I like 34 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:50.080 very much, that is Joseph Campbell, who gave a lot of force to 35 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:55.039 the myths in the 20th century, that I would like to share with you 36 00:03:55.039 --> 00:04:00.879 for us to explore. It would not be exaggerated to say that myth is 37 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:08.759 the secret entrance through which the inexhaustible energies of the cosmos are poured into human 38 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:15.319 cultural manifestations, religions, philosophies, the arts, the social forms of primitive 39 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:24.360 and historical man, the first scientific and technological discoveries, the very visions that 40 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:31.519 torment the dream emanate from the fundamental magic ring of myth. What does this 41 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:38.439 idea evoke to you? It evokes to you many emotions and many sensations that 42 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:45.240 have been explored during this year, which is precisely to see an even sometimes 43 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:53.040 self question or wonder if myths are really myths or a story. Let' 44 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:57.360 s say. That' s a subject that follows me around my head in 45 00:04:57.439 --> 00:05:01.959 a different way and I leave it clear to those who are going to hear 46 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:08.480 us. I don' t think that bus exists, but the reality as 47 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:15.199 they are counted and how they have been carried along the centuries, because indisputably 48 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:23.439 one does face a reality from a completely different approach and a little bit that 49 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:29.439 Campbell idea, I think we can. I don' t know how you 50 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:36.240 see him entwining with that vigor that by being repetitive. Yes, I believe 51 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:45.399 that this process of self- reflection has left me the most through epic poems 52 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:50.439 or narratives or the same oral tradition that has accompanied human beings since the classical 53 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:57.199 era. Let' s just say what' s got us allowed. Yeah, 54 00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:03.079 so something you' re saying is interesting. It is like that reality 55 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:09.800 of myths that have to do with a certain symbolic aspect, with an aspect 56 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:16.519 that is within ourselves in some way, are spontaneous products of the psyche and 57 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:29.000 that each one carries within himself as a seed. So existential questions about where 58 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:36.519 we come from the meaning of life explore human passions. Passions are not only 59 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:45.319 love, but envy, ambition, jealousy. The importance of foundational myths. 60 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:53.279 How they give identity to both Greeks and Romans, it is evident in some 61 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:58.639 way to the Egyptians and in the Near East also then the myths, for 62 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:06.839 they are not simply infantile rules, but they are helping us to explore and 63 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:15.319 know ourselves. On the other hand, heroes and their exploits survive in modern 64 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:26.279 times and then, today we see that in different video games, in different 65 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:33.439 series sagas, the image of the hero survives. How you see that relationship 66 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:41.920 between modern heroes, the heroic figure that continues to be maintained and the one 67 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.480 that comes from antiquity. Well, the most interesting thing is that I don 68 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:48.920 ' t think it' s changed. Let' s say one, you 69 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:55.920 imagine the modern hero and you can imagine Corbata when, evidently, they didn 70 00:07:56.040 --> 00:08:00.079 ' t happen to Hercules. But I think the figure or the first thing 71 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:05.279 that can come to our head is the hero and I think this can be 72 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:15.279 very closely related to Campbell again, and it' s the inner facet of 73 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:20.560 the hero as the hero really is not so much the one that is externalized, 74 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:28.000 but how internally it is going to develop and how all those mental processes 75 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:33.840 are going to be, also physical, but often emotional because we can' 76 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:39.759 t forget that the hero, no matter how strongly he had, had his 77 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.679 emotions well marked by the simple fact of having the human condition within himself, 78 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:50.720 in greater or lesser percentage, but a human condition that in the end didn 79 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:54.360 ' t necessarily give him his quality is mortal. So I think that today 80 00:08:54.399 --> 00:09:03.000 the hero continues to play an important role and does not continue to show us 81 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:07.080 how to draw strength, how to move forward, how to make certain decisions 82 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:16.039 in life. A little bit like a jump into the void, we could 83 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:22.559 say, but without neglecting the strength that is needed and the determination that is 84 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:26.759 needed to make a certain decision. So I' m completely convinced that one, 85 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:33.120 the hero, is still among us, but it hasn' t changed 86 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:37.759 much. Let us say the very essence of the hero and of the heroic. 87 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:46.080 It remains within all of us and remains in a society where I believe 88 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:50.320 that this will become more and more important, because it is a city, 89 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:58.559 a society that is absolutely alienated to certain currents of thought and it is necessary 90 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:07.360 that these figures help to make a difference, just as it was marked within 91 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:09.720 the imaginary of the mythologies of the class period. Thank you very much. 92 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:18.279 Yes, it is very interesting to explore these themes because, for example, 93 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:22.879 by returning to Joseph Campbell in his idea of the hero' s journey, 94 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:28.759 p the idea that each of us, as individuals, are heroes and we 95 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:35.039 take throughout our lives a journey, an inisiatic journey that equates us to the 96 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:39.840 journey of heroes. This means that you can see the journey of each of 97 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.639 the heroes, of the stories of the heroes, which exist many around the 98 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:48.399 world, in all the peoples, but which have a common structure that is 99 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:54.720 identified with our inner journey, with that passage from childhood, to adolescence and 100 00:10:54.799 --> 00:11:05.759 then to maturity. With that knowledge that we are acquiring from the outside world 101 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:11.759 and in parallel with ourselves and, on the other hand, from that relationship 102 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:18.320 that we have with nature, with our environment, then everything in the mythical 103 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:24.360 narratives is symbolic and this means that it reflects something of ourselves, of our 104 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:33.519 inner knowledge. How you see this exploration. It is an exploration that is 105 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:41.960 not easy to do and carry out, especially as I said, the prenetism 106 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:48.879 of the world in which we live necessarily prevents there from being spaces for reflection 107 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:56.600 and the journey of the hero or to be able to carry out and carry 108 00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:01.120 out the famous journey of the hero. It is necessary to have a moment 109 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:05.039 of reflection, I do not know how you see that, but I cannot 110 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:11.080 have or advance without self- questioning and without reflecting, without thinking, without 111 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:16.720 stopping. And it' s an absolutely convulsed world, an absolutely frenetic world 112 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:20.559 where sometimes there' s a lot of outside noise. And that outside noise 113 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:30.679 sometimes interferes with the need or with those pauses that are key and determining to 114 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:35.159 be able to advance and bring out the hero who, as Campbell put it 115 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:39.200 well, we all have inside. Because I am fully convinced that, unlike 116 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:45.320 Greek mythology or Roman mythology, heroes, if we say, had their role 117 00:12:45.519 --> 00:12:52.919 very clearly determined. Not everyone, deep down, could ever be. But 118 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:58.720 I think that today, when you transpolate these concepts, you encounter with everyone 119 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:07.080 we have an inner hero and we will all necessarily be able to reach this 120 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:11.799 point or that coolness of the journey alone and uniquely and exclusively if we propose 121 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:16.879 it. There' s something interesting about this that you say there are several 122 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:24.240 things. On the one hand, silence the outside noise and mythology. Let 123 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.240 ' s say it. The appreciation of methodology, like art and music, 124 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:35.960 implies in some way as an inner silence. And what is going to be 125 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:39.120 mythology, like art in general, or that music is like awakening that inner 126 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:48.080 intuition. As I see it, then that we can awaken within ourselves, 127 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:56.320 because mythology, poetry, art, magic are made like those of the same 128 00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:05.919 material. It allows us to wake up inside. And for that, then 129 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:16.000 we need a silence from the outside to be able to listen to ourselves and 130 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:20.960 see this symbolic part, which is being reflected in myths. But, on 131 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:26.679 the other hand, speaking of heroism every hero in different peoples, but in 132 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:31.120 particular, as we have seen in Greek and Roman mythology, heroes suffer suffering 133 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:41.960 is an essential part of the process of heroism. Every hero suffers by definition. 134 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:48.720 There is no way to escape from that if you want to transcend, 135 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:58.080 if you want to say cross that rite of initiation that involves reaching maturity and 136 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:07.080 self- knowledge and understanding as the fullness of being alive. If we understand 137 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:18.159 that initiatic process associated with suffering, it is difficult to relate it to that 138 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:26.399 search for easy happiness that is lived today, it is felt offered by the 139 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:31.639 mass media, as you have to be happy, you have to be positive 140 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:41.080 and there is no recognition of suffering as an essential part of an individual' 141 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:46.919 s maturity process. How you are that process in the heroes of the classical 142 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:50.480 world and in the heroes of literature and history you have seen. There is 143 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:56.679 a subject that brings that up and that seems to me to be quite rescueable, 144 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:03.840 and that is that currently and for those who hear us ask these questions, 145 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:08.879 that I think it is very relevant to do that act on the way, 146 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:14.519 currently it is poorly seen and I tell you in quotation marks the fact 147 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.799 of suffering, because it is that suffering is not necessarily treated to a disease. 148 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:26.080 Or suffering is not necessarily related to moods of is that nothing comes out 149 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:29.360 of me, nothing works for me, but I think a little further or 150 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:33.080 at least so I see it and is understanding, suffering or also better can 151 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:37.960 be suffered when you don' t know what is the next step to take 152 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:42.320 in life. But you' re convinced you have to give it. Then, 153 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:48.480 when one rethinks the concept of suffering and understands that by the mere fact 154 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:56.840 of having a human condition, there must necessarily be suffering, there must necessarily 155 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:03.240 be uncertainty and that it is not enough. It is not enough that I 156 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:10.039 invite you to be positive and to see the world with one and allow me 157 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:17.519 to say so, with a harmful permanent notion of happiness. You don' 158 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:22.400 t have because you' re happy all the time, but many times you 159 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.799 feel that if you' re not happy, you' re like betraying something 160 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:30.559 to someone. But you forget that those states or those alterations of emotions, 161 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:37.880 or those alterations of leading us to moments of suffering, are necessary and unavoidable 162 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:42.920 by our human condition, but above all in order to carry out the journey 163 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:48.079 of the hero who, as I say, I am fully convinced that everyone, 164 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:52.720 to a greater or lesser extent, if we have a hero within us. 165 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:59.480 Following that idea and let' s say look a little deeper at the 166 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:06.359 myths and the subversive, subversive character that can have at this moment a look 167 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:11.839 from the mythology of society. There is another aspect and it is that myths 168 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:19.400 transcend that segmentation that is being made today of society, true, for example, 169 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:26.200 of men, women or different groups, because in this case it is 170 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:30.559 not about the journey, the hero or the heroine, but that men and 171 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:37.599 women carry a heroic character within us, just as we all carry within us 172 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:48.319 a sorcerer. So, when we get closer to the myths, we go 173 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:53.240 looking, we realize that they talk about something very general, that is, 174 00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:59.519 it doesn' t just talk about a city, it doesn' t talk 175 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:02.960 about a group of people, if it doesn' t talk to everyone, 176 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:07.720 to the whole planet. And when he talks about nature, it' s 177 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:11.839 about the nature of the whole earth. True, and when one speaks of 178 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:19.559 the heroic journey, from the process of maturation of individuals, from dependence to 179 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:26.279 adulthood, maturity and then death, and how each individual should be linked to 180 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:33.079 this society and how to link society to the world, to nature and to 181 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.920 the cosmos. That' s what all the myths have talked about, and 182 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:47.160 that' s what myths keep telling us. Then they invite us to understand 183 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:56.440 a kind of planetary society and to transcend the fragmentations that are being made today. 184 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:03.319 How do you see that about to mythological from the classical Greek mythology of 185 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:11.000 Rome, since taking up the idea about the historical component that myths have and 186 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:15.640 when one approaches them, one says well, one finds it difficult or quarrels 187 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:21.599 with reason. Sometimes this happened or it didn' t happen. And that 188 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:27.279 bound one and I say it in a very figurative way, a timeline or 189 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:30.400 where you can follow one myth behind another, one myth behind another and myth 190 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:37.720 behind another to explain and here. I think it is more Greece than Rome 191 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.839 to explain the world And why I make that difference, Because the Romans, 192 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:48.480 or at least this is how I understand it, the Romans needed to find 193 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:56.079 their mythological explanation, because it seemed to them as more cool to be able 194 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:03.200 to explain it from the gods and explain their lineage from the divine and not 195 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:03.799 from their own and their land conquests and the absolute control of the Mediterranean Sea. 196 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:10.400 But in the specific case of the Greeks, they did question themselves in 197 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:14.400 a very linear way, or at least that' s how they can go 198 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:18.279 on asking themselves where we came from, but they tried to have an explanation 199 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:22.000 from the mythological. Yeah, but as rational as possible, and that' 200 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:27.680 s from B and C. The gods in this and in the end, 201 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:33.160 what are going to be represented in all these narratives and in all these creatures 202 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:38.720 and deities, for they are going to be the last elements that end up 203 00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:45.519 giving strength and shape to human beings without distinction. So I think that trying 204 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:56.720 to fragment or pretend to change things or accommodate them to the needs of today 205 00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:00.279 ' s world would necessarily end up emptying. It is at an output level 206 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:07.319 that myths and universality have understood, because, regardless of the tradition that cultures 207 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:12.480 have, that the different peoples of the world have, all will be able 208 00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:19.000 to explain themselves or self understand through Greek mythology, through classical mythology later adapted 209 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:30.519 by the Romans. And so I believe I am fully convinced that dividing or 210 00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:37.839 classifying or Rodular Greek mythology into so many squares exist, as there are people 211 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:47.119 in the world, necessarily fragmentary to some limits where the same magic and cohesion 212 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:52.880 that the Greeks gave it would break and that it has allowed it to see 213 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:59.839 last through the centuries and survive the middle ages and be able to reach the 214 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:04.400 Holmen again during the period of rebirth, for none of that would be achieved 215 00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:14.400 if one wanted to land it badly landed to the realities and demands of society. 216 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:19.319 Okay. One of the most interesting aspects of Greek and Roman mythology, 217 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:27.920 but in particular of Greek, is that it exalts life. That' s 218 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:33.319 why they didn' t like to talk about ades very much. It is 219 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.920 not a very frequent subject, because what they like is to exalt life, 220 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:45.079 it is to experience, to be alive, and mythology is like a compendium 221 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:55.079 of Vital experiences. True they are, although symbolic in principle, they are 222 00:23:55.079 --> 00:24:03.839 as on a purely physical plane and resonate with our and reality more internets on 223 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:11.839 a symbolic level. But myths tell us about the intensity, the ecstasy of 224 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:19.359 being alive. Today, perhaps it is the artists who would somehow continue this 225 00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:30.039 mythological expression. You who are passionate about literature and, particularly, music and 226 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:37.359 opera? How do you see that continuation of that mythological expression in art? 227 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:42.680 Well, that question will be answered, considering that it gives for a doctoral 228 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:51.359 thesis. But of course it is, because the specific case of opera, 229 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:57.559 which is most interesting and is that the birth of this genre, which will 230 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:07.319 be one thousand six hundred and seven in Italy, is closely related to mythology, 231 00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:10.960 a classical mythology. And why because I say it, why I bring 232 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.400 it to town and it' s the first opera. It' s his 233 00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:19.400 argument. It is the myth of orpheus, it is a myth that developed 234 00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:27.640 here in these episodes and one says that one begins to create a new form 235 00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:33.400 of art, a new way of communicating, but the hook that is going 236 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:37.720 to be used for this to begin are going to be the myths. That 237 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.599 already tells us of the validity, because if we are talking about one thousand 238 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:48.640 six hundred and seven quickly in mathematics, if one wants to think of what 239 00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:55.240 year can be the iguada or the odyssey, how many centuries we are talking 240 00:25:55.279 --> 00:26:03.119 about that have passed or theogonias, one says man how much has happened, 241 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:07.759 many very relevant things have happened in the history of humanity. So that in 242 00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:11.400 that awakening, after those dark years that brought about the Middle Ages, the 243 00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:21.160 most interesting or the greatest marketing that they could grasp from that they could grasp, 244 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.680 it will not be properly religious music in the case with such of the 245 00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:29.799 opera, but it will be the myths, They will be the heroes. 246 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:37.880 It is going to be that artistic manifestation, the musical representation of something that, 247 00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:45.480 although it could be seen or understood as something very old had an absolute 248 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.880 validity. The same is going to happen with the case of another opera, 249 00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:55.279 which is the return of Ulises to the homeland, because there we are talking 250 00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:59.880 about nothing more and nothing less than odyssey. We are musicalizing the odyssey, 251 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:07.680 we are musicalizing the said one of the poems, but the greatest epic poem 252 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.720 that has given the human mind. And one goes on and one continues to 253 00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:18.400 draw that line and one begins to find that in the case, for example, 254 00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:26.559 of Mozart, we are going to have a work called Apollo escapius that 255 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:33.680 says ok we continue with the Greeks, but we are talking about late 18th 256 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.160 century salt. And so you' re going to see all that historical backsliding. 257 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:45.839 In more than four hundred years it will play a very important role And 258 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:49.200 in the case of the contemporary, one could say that the 20th century, 259 00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:55.920 which was the century of the revolution, where everything, where it was wanted 260 00:27:56.039 --> 00:28:02.519 to break with everything past, not because it was something bad necessarily, but 261 00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:10.279 because the need to evolve was seen. And in the 20th century there was 262 00:28:10.279 --> 00:28:18.359 a well- loved German composer within the public or present, who is rijarte 263 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:26.400 Straulth composed an opera that we are talking about, which premieres in nineteen hundred 264 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.720 and nine, which is elected. Then you see the part, and a 265 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:33.880 little more psychological about the character. But despite being the century of revolutions, 266 00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:41.200 in art, we continue to lay hands on myths. Then I believe that, 267 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:45.799 obviously, in the future that will not change. And the answer I 268 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:55.640 think may be valid and I know it sounds. I may sound a little 269 00:28:55.759 --> 00:29:03.920 monotonous about the matter, but it is that validity is something that allows one 270 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:11.960 to see how one can continue to find answers in poems and in oral tradition 271 00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:18.720 that have more than twenty centuries, because it is a long time that has 272 00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:25.119 passed and one is necessarily going to see it. How human emotions, love, 273 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:32.759 despair, hatred, anger, happiness accompany music in a rather interesting way, 274 00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:41.519 because here music is going to make us is like a kind of vehicle 275 00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:48.599 that will allow us to enter into those emotions that were narrated so long ago. 276 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:57.160 Then, yes, I think it plays a role and will play a 277 00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:03.200 very important role. If, as you say, poetry, art in the 278 00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:11.640 West can find its essential themes of inspiration in mythology, in classical mythology. 279 00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:19.119 So that means that they are not just children' s tales, but transcend 280 00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:27.599 that to make powerful guides to the human spirit. And we are also going 281 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:33.799 to see throughout the coming episodes, that mythological accounts from all over the world, 282 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:37.799 to go from looking different, are actually very similar and contain within themselves 283 00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:48.759 a kind of universal truth. Yes, it is changing in times and ways, 284 00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:59.039 but it has to do with the pursuit of the heroic. And the 285 00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:03.440 heroic is going to be related to serving others, to giving a meaning to 286 00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:12.200 life from service to others. And that seems very, very interesting to me, 287 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.920 because what a hero is looking for, for example, is not simply 288 00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:26.599 acquiring power, fame glory or staying with the most beautiful couple, but transcending 289 00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:36.160 all that and returning them or doing a service to their community. So that 290 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:44.160 seems quite interesting to me, because it is associated with a form of wisdom, 291 00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:53.599 a form of knowledge that transcends the immediate and because it has to see 292 00:31:53.640 --> 00:32:05.799 more is like a way to support a society that is in trouble. Then 293 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:10.640 there we go looking, because it' s worth talking about myths. The 294 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:16.000 importance of myths of the classical world, because they are, while there are 295 00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:23.799 other myths for the West, classical myths have been fundamental. Those are the 296 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:28.759 ones we' re going to find mainly in the art of rebirth, in 297 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.720 the neoclassical, in the baroque. They will resume and reinterpret during romanticism, 298 00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:39.079 in literature, in music, in art. So they' re telling us 299 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:46.599 something beyond the obvious, beyond what we might call the story. So, 300 00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:58.880 so let' s say in this talk it' s worth a bit exploring 301 00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:07.880 what it tells you, what myths tell us about the human spirit and survival. 302 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:15.319 As we talked about these myths today, despite the time that has passed 303 00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:24.279 when these stories were composed, then we see that it has a deep meaning 304 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:31.960 and that the myths give us a kind of perspective to understand the rafa life 305 00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:38.200 in your personal experience. There are many myths that you have told me that 306 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:45.960 you did not know or that you learned in all these episodes, how was 307 00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:53.079 your personal experience of discovering these stories with what you felt affinity, how, 308 00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:55.400 which ones you did not know or which ones you did know? You saw 309 00:33:55.519 --> 00:34:01.960 a new perspective, because prime would dare to say that the general perspective of 310 00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:09.760 Greek mythology changed a little because traditionally and returning to the word that you used 311 00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:17.119 the story, often falls into a historical reductionism, reducing it to that it 312 00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:24.280 is a story and it is a story we give you may have the quality 313 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:30.239 of but the fact that it is a story should not imply that it can 314 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:38.719 be subtracted from it. I needed to point that out because, by rethinking 315 00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:49.039 all my knowledge that I had in front of Greek mythology, in front of 316 00:34:49.239 --> 00:34:54.119 the gods, to Mount Olimpo, because because you were there Hercules, thanks 317 00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:57.400 to Disney, But if it was Greece, then you didn' t go 318 00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:00.639 to call Hercules. But then, because it was one you imagine much more 319 00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:06.079 maternal and loving the child and realize that you don' t. When one 320 00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:12.320 approaches this knowledge and these narratives, the first thing to be found is an 321 00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:20.079 absolute rethinking of his knowledge of Greek mythology. Once that rethinking has been achieved, 322 00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:25.480 one begins to say how interesting, what is so striking that many times 323 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:34.719 the gods or characters one knew, believed to know them and had them in 324 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:45.559 a kind of unquestionable and perfect beings. I know they' re gods and 325 00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:50.639 you' re god then you' re perfect. But in the case of 326 00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:54.880 this process, as one realizes that being perfect does not imply having no problems, 327 00:35:55.519 --> 00:36:01.920 then one discovers what you are, because you can be the head of 328 00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:12.480 this whole of these Olympic gods. But it is not necessarily as perfect as 329 00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:17.840 one is the hospital or, for example, Adres, which for me was 330 00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:23.159 absolutely revealing a little because one ade has been painted the figure of ades has 331 00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:30.079 built it from the concept of Christian hell. And when one realizes that this 332 00:36:30.199 --> 00:36:35.239 lord, for in himself or with his subjects of character, did not live 333 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:39.159 so happy where he touched, for, for a little, just as they 334 00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:45.960 cast him out, the luck is that he has sheath with the dead. 335 00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:50.639 But one realizes that he is a character with an inner force makes one necessarily 336 00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:52.639 say, for this has nothing to do with the devil, the lord. 337 00:36:53.599 --> 00:37:02.519 What it has is a number of qualities that allow me to understand myself today 338 00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:07.960 and say I have some Hades, but that doesn' t mean that I 339 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:13.199 have something or that it' s a negative trait. And that' s 340 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:22.000 where one starts to create like a figure and it' s just imagine that 341 00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:30.320 you have a ball of clay or clay and you' re following the episodes 342 00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:36.639 and you' re adding the corresponding percentage according to every god or myth that 343 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:43.320 you hear and start arming yourself and nobody knows you better than yourself, but 344 00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:45.760 you don' t know each other at all. So, when you start 345 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:50.000 doing these reflexive processes and you start putting together, that doll is clay and 346 00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:52.880 it says I have a percentage of this God and I didn' t know 347 00:37:53.000 --> 00:37:55.639 and it' s not putting it. In the end he realizes how multifaceted 348 00:37:55.800 --> 00:38:02.480 one and two can become of how one could if through the psychoanalysis of jung 349 00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:07.920 that developed so much in these podcasts and archetypes, how one could be explained 350 00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:17.159 if one were in a very hypothetical way ancient Greece. So I think that 351 00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:23.119 ' s the second concept and the third, which is I found new Estia. 352 00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:28.920 First I found out that it existed because one of the Olympic gods necessarily 353 00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:39.920 reduced them to Zeus poseidón ades was Athena Aphrodite to tell and when one, 354 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:45.360 instead of saying name, there is sea is festo, for example, supremely 355 00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:50.280 interesting character, not only from the mythological point of view, but also from 356 00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:57.039 the artistic point of view, is to understand, beauty from what is apparently 357 00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:04.119 ugly In sight And so yes, one is finding and finding. And so 358 00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:09.679 I dare say that in more than fifty episodes related to Greek mythology, saying 359 00:39:09.679 --> 00:39:17.920 that others caught my attention would involve even greater work. And it is to 360 00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:28.159 revisit or what caused me surprise, as surely was generated the surprise in people 361 00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:35.559 when they lived oral tradition and then with writing, they passed the myths from 362 00:39:35.719 --> 00:39:43.000 generation to generation. I am very excited about the rafa because, some time 363 00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:50.280 ago, literature, Greek and Latin mythology, as well as the Old Testament 364 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:54.679 accounts, were part of the education of all people. But that is no 365 00:39:54.719 --> 00:40:01.920 longer the case and the tradition of mythological information in the West, because it 366 00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:09.039 sometimes seems to be being lost. And that seems important to me to say, 367 00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:17.079 because that is, let' s say, one of the things that 368 00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:24.840 motivated me to open this podcast of Sherrezada' s accounts and is to bear 369 00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:29.480 in mind that there were times when those accounts were in people' s minds. 370 00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:35.199 And when a story is in people' s imagination, almost unconsciously, 371 00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:42.159 you can feel its meaning and use it to interpret something that happens to you 372 00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:49.159 in life and can give you perspective to understand the different events of life. 373 00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:58.880 But if we lose those stories and lose those stories that are really profound to 374 00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:05.159 myself to see from my feelings, there is nothing comparable to mythology, because 375 00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:10.960 these are as part of information that comes from ancient times and that is dedicated 376 00:41:12.039 --> 00:41:20.000 to issues essential to human beings have to do with forms of behavior, with 377 00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:27.280 ways of understanding life, with deep internal problems, with the meaning of the 378 00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:34.079 rituals of passage from one moment to another in life and how they have lived 379 00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:40.599 through millennia. Then they interpret in some ways signs that are along the path 380 00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:45.079 of life and one, without those accounts will have more difficulty finding them. 381 00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:52.280 And I' m interrupting you about that, I think it' s time 382 00:41:52.360 --> 00:42:01.320 to talk about it. Myths are part of DNA and when I talk about 383 00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:07.719 this amy he also wants to invite them to do an exercise that is supremely 384 00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:12.199 interesting and these one. You may not have read the odyssey, but you 385 00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:14.679 know what' s going on? He may not have not read the iliade, 386 00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:22.400 but he knows perfectly the narration around the troya horse and that kind of 387 00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:30.599 rooting is held in different artistic manifestations. You know a lot of works of 388 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:35.199 art without even seeing them. One may never have been in front of the 389 00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:40.360 monalisa, but he knows perfectly well what the picture is like and knows perfectly 390 00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:45.639 well what can surround this picture. Regardless of the historical mysteries that the company 391 00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:51.519 is. It happens with music, it happens with literature. You don' 392 00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:53.320 t read. One, when they tell him, he' s already given 393 00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:54.920 the quijote. No, no, I' ve read it, but you 394 00:42:54.960 --> 00:43:00.880 know perfectly well who Don Quixote Sancho was from Rough Dulcinea. And that role 395 00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:05.960 is no less the fact that in the two thousand and twenty- one one 396 00:43:06.039 --> 00:43:12.639 can have in the adm works that were written, thought out, imagined, 397 00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:17.199 composed two hundred and four hundred and two thousand and five hundred years ago is 398 00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:23.039 not a minor subject. Surely in this world today, one can have a 399 00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:27.480 civilized conversation. You say this. I' m feeling like this today. 400 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:31.599 You' re most likely to send him to a madhouse. But what I 401 00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:39.639 think is very interesting is that you know that there are things that happened, 402 00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:45.000 you know that there are things that have been written, that have been thought, 403 00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:50.280 that have been imagined if you haven' t even had the opportunity to 404 00:43:50.360 --> 00:43:54.239 have a book of them in your hands or have heard a record or habels 405 00:43:54.239 --> 00:44:01.079 the same. Yes, thank you for saying so, because it is another 406 00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:09.280 point that it is very important to make clear in this talk, that it 407 00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:15.480 is how the term myth has been distorted. Today it is popularly synonymous with 408 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:22.519 lies. If someone tells you something is a myth, it' s like 409 00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:29.400 it' s a falsehood. And for this, then, it is worth 410 00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:34.719 bearing in mind that this is not a recent problem. The term myth was 411 00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:39.280 blurred even in the classical period by historians, since the sixth century BC. 412 00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:45.960 We were already associating ourselves with something that was not, that was not a 413 00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:57.559 historical fact, but it maintained true, certain, certain importance, a certain 414 00:44:57.719 --> 00:44:59.920 sacredness, to put it that way. So it has been lost for the 415 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:07.159 last two hundred years with the rise of rationalism. So, today, only 416 00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:15.320 many people want to hear what is a truth, probable, tangible true by 417 00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:28.280 the senses. But it is important to rethink that there are other forms of 418 00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:36.559 reality beyond positivism and the pragmatic reality of the tangible. It has to do 419 00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:45.480 with the reality that the myths reflect. So that form of meaning, of 420 00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:51.920 meaning that has passed through the times, of meaning and meaning of life, 421 00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:57.880 that transcends the rational, because, obviously, myths do not pretend to be 422 00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:07.840 always rational percent, as rationality is understood today. But we still as humans 423 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:14.639 need to understand death and face it. We need help to understand the mystery, 424 00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:19.719 the birth, the life, the death, the passions, to glimpse 425 00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:25.480 eternity, to approach the mysteries of life, something that helps us to understand 426 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:35.760 who we are. And there are the myths to help us express the experience 427 00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:44.039 of being alive. And that transcends the simple plane of pragmatic rationality. That 428 00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:51.719 transcends the simply physical, because we are pointing to what has resonance with the 429 00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:58.960 interior of our being of our most intimate reality. So if we are expressing 430 00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:02.639 what is the joy of being alive, for joy is not necessarily a rational, 431 00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:12.320 true, measurable experience, but it is there that is part of our 432 00:47:12.519 --> 00:47:17.760 life and that is what myths point to expressing both joy and sadness, despair, 433 00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:28.199 anguish. And myths give us keys to finding and resounding with ourselves. 434 00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:36.159 When you mentioned the archetypes that we worked on in all these episodes and that 435 00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:40.199 ' s another way to get closer to myths through the reading of psychoanalysis you 436 00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:45.800 have of these we see. It' s a clearer way to see the 437 00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:52.800 myths telling us about us. What aspects of the gods. There is in 438 00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:59.440 ourselves that we want to develop more or even that we want to lower the 439 00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:04.679 volume to those aspects to give us more balance. So, yes, myths 440 00:48:04.840 --> 00:48:10.280 are key to leading us to the spiritual potentialities of human life. Yes, 441 00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:17.800 instead of doubt, that topic you touch would give for many analyses, many 442 00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:28.880 lectures, a lot of work in a world where and I remember a book 443 00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:35.559 that wrote an Italian teacher and writer who died last year, which is Nuccio 444 00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.599 Ordini, which is the utility of the useless. And we are in a 445 00:48:40.599 --> 00:48:47.599 world where forgiveness is rejected, rejected, which does not represent an immediate utility. 446 00:48:50.159 --> 00:48:52.960 And he sets an example that serves us a lot for this conversation, 447 00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:59.760 and it is that it makes more use of a symphony, or for me 448 00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:02.519 the answer in media can be a hammer. It depends on why if I 449 00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:07.159 don' t have anything to hammer, what use I can be representing none. 450 00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:13.719 And the same thing is going to happen with the myths as you approach 451 00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:15.760 them, realize that they serve or do not represent any utility until allowed. 452 00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:25.079 I do not say to silence the world, because neither is the idea of 453 00:49:25.159 --> 00:49:30.679 falling into a state of self- absorbing, for as in the allegory of 454 00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:37.199 the platon cavern, much less, but to be able to lower it a 455 00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:42.719 little bit from the volume, to lower it a little bit to the frenetism 456 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:52.199 of the world in which we move, in order to enter into a phase 457 00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:57.880 of reflection and find how useful it can be to go to mythology to be 458 00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:04.360 able to find, I do not say the solution to life, but to 459 00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:07.760 find something that is more interesting than the solution itself, which are tools to 460 00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:07.760 cope with the problems that can arise and that are inherent in our human condition. 461 00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:14.800 Then, when you enter this universe, you break it down and appropriate 462 00:50:14.920 --> 00:50:17.239 it, because this is everyone' s, that the Greeks have done it 463 00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:25.480 more than twenty centuries ago. It does not mean that it is for the 464 00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:30.639 exclusive use of the Greeks. This is everyone' s, and that universality 465 00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:40.480 must necessarily lead us to be able to appropriate them to find out how I 466 00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:46.760 say it tools answers questions, because it is necessary not to stop self- 467 00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:52.440 questioning, because if we do, I am sure the Greeks would not be 468 00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:54.679 proud of us. Thank you very much. You' re right. We 469 00:50:54.800 --> 00:51:05.280 are so obsessed with doing things or we are realizing goals external to ourselves that 470 00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:12.960 they have as an external value for the world to see them that we forget 471 00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:19.519 many times the inner values of pleasure and the emotion of being alive, which 472 00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:24.840 is what myths are really about, because myths tell us to go back inside, 473 00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:35.119 to begin to understand the message in the symbols of understanding certain, these 474 00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:44.320 messages that put us in contact with the experience of being alive. So that 475 00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:51.800 ' s what this podcast of Sherresae' s stories has been about so far, 476 00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:58.320 which is like re- seeking mythology in a world that, in appearance, 477 00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:07.599 is demytologized and there is that term and re- exploring the messages they 478 00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:19.559 have and what they have for us to say these stories about the wisdom of 479 00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:24.119 life, which goes beyond the technology or information we receive daily, which has 480 00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:37.000 a useful practical sense, but is something that transcends those issues. And there 481 00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:44.760 is a subject that is not minor and that is that much is invited in 482 00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:52.400 those processes of historical revisionism, to look towards the same thing, towards the 483 00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:59.159 culture, let us say, in this specific case, of pre- Columbian 484 00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:02.519 cultures and all that period that is said to be by the way, is 485 00:53:02.519 --> 00:53:06.440 not to diminish it worth much less. I believe that every culture and every 486 00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:12.440 form and perspective of seeing and understanding the world is equally important, but that 487 00:53:12.519 --> 00:53:19.360 historical revisionism is often understood, my judgment, from an absolutely perverse way, 488 00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:25.960 and it is that one should not look towards Europe, that one should not 489 00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:32.440 look towards certain civilizations, until one knows the same until one knows each other. 490 00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:38.480 And the subject which, as I say, seems very relevant to me 491 00:53:38.480 --> 00:53:47.679 is, yes, unfortunately, that pre- Columbian cultures do not have such 492 00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:55.159 a supremely solid structure as if they have Greek mythology and judge history according to 493 00:53:55.400 --> 00:54:05.119 current standards to, besides depriving us of or depriving us of knowledge of these 494 00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:09.960 myths, these narratives, these oral traditions, because it is an absolute nonsense. 495 00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:19.039 Then there is the unceasing need to make things useful or useful to my 496 00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:24.760 day- to- day life, with the need to be ensemised in the 497 00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:31.519 typical, in this case Colombia or Mexico, or China or any other country, 498 00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:37.920 to any culture that may have its roots in countries that, in one 499 00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:44.639 way or another, may be involved with those historical processes that took place throughout 500 00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:52.000 Greek civilization and that entire period until the Auge Foundation and the fall of the 501 00:54:52.119 --> 00:55:07.320 Roman Empire. Okay, mythology is universal. He speaks to us of human 502 00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:15.639 beings, he is a kind of music, of imagination, he speaks to 503 00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:21.199 us of energy, of the human spirit, he speaks to us of the 504 00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:27.559 essence of what we are. Then. That is why it transcends borders and 505 00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:37.119 classical mythology has the particularity of having been elaborated, built by many people for 506 00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:45.440 a long time. These are stories that have been written for over a thousand 507 00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:52.039 years. True, there are some people who transcribed them. To put it 508 00:55:52.039 --> 00:55:59.960 that way, it cannot make us forget that they are of tradition collected. 509 00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:12.039 They are a collective creation and we do not easily have other stories that have 510 00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:19.119 been written by the same people who created them for so long, that they 511 00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:25.480 have been rethought for so many years reinterpreted because, moreover, something fascinating about 512 00:56:25.480 --> 00:56:30.320 classical mythology is that there are many versions. That is why we are not 513 00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:37.320 talking about a religion that has a sacred text whose word is immovable. Not 514 00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:45.280 here are many versions of the accounts that maintain one essence, but it has 515 00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:51.599 no superiority of one account over another. Sometimes I work with the older stories 516 00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:59.480 than others, but each one of the stories is speaking to us, in 517 00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:07.840 addition to that reinterpretation, from the look of his time. So nothing else 518 00:57:07.880 --> 00:57:10.840 since classical mythology, as I tell you, is more than a thousand years 519 00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:19.320 in which these stories are being told, as they evolve, they change. 520 00:57:19.480 --> 00:57:24.320 For example, you mentioned. A moment ago the Ades, the ades changes 521 00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:34.079 from Homer' s Hades to Virgil' s Hell in the Eneida. True, 522 00:57:34.199 --> 00:57:39.960 let us see that there is an influence of Egypt, there is an 523 00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:45.000 influence of the Persian because it is already because of Hellenistic culture. Then. 524 00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:51.239 This changes then, just as society changed. His idea of the afterlife was 525 00:57:51.320 --> 00:57:57.679 changing then. There is one essential thing that remains, which is that concern 526 00:57:57.760 --> 00:58:04.159 about what happens in the afterlife. But every society, every historical moment, 527 00:58:04.280 --> 00:58:08.760 is making contributions to that construction of that imaginary. There is one idea that, 528 00:58:09.079 --> 00:58:15.119 moreover, I find supremely interesting that you, who are hearing us, 529 00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:24.079 should take away, and that is that we are generationally connected by those who 530 00:58:24.079 --> 00:58:30.199 made these myths. Here comes an idea that Cortázar put forward in an interview 531 00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:37.480 that he gave to Spanish television in the eighties, when he spoke of the 532 00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:45.360 poem The Kings, where he reinterprets the myth of the labyrinth and the minotaur, 533 00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:50.880 preserving the essence because, because that cannot be altered. And he, 534 00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:55.760 in the interview, said something that seems to me to have a certain reason, 535 00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:07.440 and it is if you tie the links from our present and begin to 536 00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:15.039 tie them back and back and back and go ten twenty- five centuries, 537 00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:22.519 you will realize that there is a kind of magical connection with a Greek character. 538 00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:28.280 I' m not talking about mythology, but yes a poet, someone 539 00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:35.239 who helped the construction to shape this oral tradition and this is related to what 540 00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:42.000 we were telling ourselves and that, in an untimely way, I made the 541 00:59:42.039 --> 00:59:50.320 decision to interrupt in order to get this idea that I believe in the last 542 00:59:50.360 --> 00:59:57.079 few ends up being the great essence of this mythology and it' s how 543 00:59:57.199 --> 01:00:05.119 we are connected and how something that has all that amount of years is still 544 01:00:05.159 --> 01:00:07.840 fully current in a century like the one we are living. Thank you very 545 01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:15.920 much, Rafa. It has been a pleasure to have you in this episode 546 01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:28.360 and I hope that you will accompany us many more episodes and be able to 547 01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:30.039 share with you these stories really is wonderful. Thank you. Thank you very 548 01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:34.679 much for the invitation. Thank you very much. Surely, when more opportunities 549 01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:39.519 are given, happy to be able to accompany you to follow your work as 550 01:00:39.639 --> 01:00:45.199 closely as I have done as a result of these podcasts. Really, thank 551 01:00:45.320 --> 01:00:52.280 you so much for the invitation. Okay One hug and we' ll see 552 01:00:52.400 --> 01:01:14.400 you in a next episode of shere sale stories. Thank you very much.