1 00:00:17,039 --> 00:00:21,280 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Jasinski, 2 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,120 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,960 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST. 4 00:00:28,199 --> 00:00:32,320 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts as well. Today I'm 5 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,840 happy to be joined by Carol Roth. She's the author of the new book 6 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,359 that is out on July eighteenth. It's called You Will Own Nothing, Your 7 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:45,399 War with a New Financial World Order and How to Fight Back. Carol is 8 00:00:45,439 --> 00:00:51,479 a recovering investment banker and actually knows so much of the self the stuff from 9 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,079 her own up close and personal experiences with that world. So Carol, thank 10 00:00:56,079 --> 00:00:58,719 you so much for joining us. Thank you, Emily. Yeah, that 11 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,600 the recovery sort of a twelve step process. I'm not sure if I'm ever 12 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:06,799 out of step eleven, but I try my hardest. Well, you've done 13 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,280 the most important thing, which is admitting that you haven't thank you, thank 14 00:01:10,359 --> 00:01:12,519 you, which is what this entire book is. But I just want to 15 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:17,640 start by saying this book is an achievement. It is sweeping. It goes 16 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:22,120 through so many different aspects. I mean, everything down to like nitty gritty 17 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,159 of social media, but then to investment banking as you alluded to earlier. 18 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:30,680 I mean, it's just just it must have been a real labor of love. 19 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,799 Otherwise there's no way there's otherwise, there's no way you could have written 20 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,840 something like this. I think it was a labor of hate because I hated 21 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,120 the fact that I had to write this. Yeah, I hated every moment 22 00:01:42,239 --> 00:01:44,400 of this. And then I just wanted to be a game show host. 23 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:49,359 I didn't want to depress people, but it really is. You know, 24 00:01:49,599 --> 00:01:53,519 I was trying to find it through live through all of these issues that people 25 00:01:53,959 --> 00:01:57,439 had been talking to me about. I've been an advocate of wealth creation and 26 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,480 as we get, as he said, social credit, Wall Street competing with 27 00:02:00,519 --> 00:02:07,000 you for for your home, the dollar debasement and inflation that we've been facing, 28 00:02:07,079 --> 00:02:10,080 Big Tech trying to rent your life back to you as a service or 29 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:15,039 a subscription ESG. You know, I kept trying to put this through line 30 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:20,199 together and then it just sort of hit me, you all owe nothing. 31 00:02:20,319 --> 00:02:23,960 You know, this meme that we had been seeing everywhere, and that really 32 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:28,039 ended up being a very nice way to tie it together. But when people 33 00:02:28,159 --> 00:02:31,759 hear you will own nothing. It sounds so conspiratorial. So one of the 34 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,840 things I tried to do in the book, which made it a labor of 35 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,879 hate instead of love, was to source everything, you know, from every 36 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,800 place I could, especially when I could take it right from the source and 37 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,400 the people who were saying these things. And so I do think it's a 38 00:02:47,439 --> 00:02:52,680 really important work and the fact that, you know, we get to the 39 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,159 end with a plan to fight back, because I do think a lot of 40 00:02:55,159 --> 00:03:00,879 people focused on talking points and very macro sort of issues and then everyone's like, 41 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,840 Okay, I bought into this, what do I do now? And 42 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,120 they're sort of left at the altar. And I didn't want to do that 43 00:03:09,159 --> 00:03:13,280 to people. You know, I feel like there aren't enough folks who are 44 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:19,319 very clear eyed about the problems that are also so knowledgeable about the subject, 45 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,719 because I think people who tend to be knowledgeable about our system of finance are 46 00:03:23,759 --> 00:03:27,280 generally pretty defensive of it. And they're part of that world, you know, 47 00:03:27,319 --> 00:03:30,319 they're people who are going to the World Economic Forum and are in constant 48 00:03:30,319 --> 00:03:35,479 communication with the folks on the hill or at the World Health Organization, and 49 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,039 aren't you know, even if they're well intentioned, they aren't cleared eyed enough 50 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,879 or they don't have enough distance to kind of see what's really happening. So 51 00:03:42,199 --> 00:03:46,000 could you talk to us about maybe even the meme is a good place to 52 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,199 start. You will own nothing. You write a lot about Klaus Schwab, 53 00:03:49,319 --> 00:03:53,039 the Great Reset, the World Economic Forum, which maybe does sound conspiratorial to 54 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,960 some people, but is really the opposite. It's sort of plane in sight 55 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,240 and is happening openly. They're bragging about it. What does that have to 56 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:06,639 do with this broader conversation about the war? As I'm taking this from your 57 00:04:06,639 --> 00:04:12,599 subtitle with a new financial world order? Like why is property and ownership? 58 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,879 How do we know it's so central to this? Yeah, I'm going to 59 00:04:15,879 --> 00:04:18,079 answer that one second. But as you let into that, I think the 60 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,600 difference between me and perhaps some of my colleagues, as I come from a 61 00:04:21,639 --> 00:04:26,120 blue collar background, neither of my parents went to college. My dad was 62 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:31,079 an electrician. I was granted this incredible opportunity to seize the American dream, 63 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,279 and so I am particularly defensive about that. I have a very sort of 64 00:04:36,759 --> 00:04:42,959 rising tides lift all both the pie can expand mindsets, and unfortunately, I 65 00:04:42,959 --> 00:04:46,240 think a lot of people in the Wall Street world want to protect this little 66 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,680 fiefdom that they have, or maybe they came from privilege and so they think 67 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:56,560 that it's you know, came to them for reasons other than how it really 68 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,519 did come about. So I do think when you are on the beneficiary end 69 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,399 of this, and there are a lot of people and I am one of 70 00:05:04,399 --> 00:05:08,959 those people who've been on the beneficiary end of it, it's kind of hard 71 00:05:08,959 --> 00:05:12,040 to step back and say, well, let's get rid of this whole thing. 72 00:05:12,399 --> 00:05:15,040 But I take that Henry Ford mindset. You know, I'm going to 73 00:05:15,079 --> 00:05:17,040 build cars, but I want to pay my workers enough so that they can 74 00:05:17,079 --> 00:05:20,879 buy the car, because I actually think that's the way that everybody does well, 75 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,000 and that the wealthier people get wealthy, you know, by marriage and 76 00:05:25,079 --> 00:05:30,000 sort of free enterprise. But I think that that's shifted as we've moved away 77 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,319 from free enterprise towards more central planning. So the actual question to add to 78 00:05:34,399 --> 00:05:39,720 me, so that's really interesting. Actually, yeah, so thank you. 79 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,000 So the actually question is, you know, so when you see this meme 80 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,759 going around social media, you will own nothing. You'll be happy. My 81 00:05:48,879 --> 00:05:55,319 first instinct is somebody who tends to be a little skeptical of everything. Is 82 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:00,439 okay? Did they take this out of context? Is this wrong? Because 83 00:06:00,519 --> 00:06:04,839 the World Economic Forum is a non governmental organization that is littered with the business 84 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,879 and political elite. You know, everybody gets together, they go to Davos, 85 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,160 Switzerland, They find their private jets, they wear their fancy clothes, 86 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:18,680 they stake and caviar and share big ideas like why would these elite be you 87 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:26,120 or anybody who's associated with them, be predicting the end of private property by 88 00:06:26,199 --> 00:06:31,639 twenty thirty. And it struck me in particular as somebody who has advocated for 89 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,920 wealth creation opportunities for more than a quarter of a century. You know, 90 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:43,040 I know that you need to have ownership to have wealth. Ownership comes from 91 00:06:43,079 --> 00:06:47,920 having assets that have the opportunity to retain value or to appreciate and value. 92 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,879 That's the differential between just making some money and then putting it to work with 93 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:58,600 you to really drive that wealth creation. So the idea that the World Economic 94 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:03,079 Forum would be having this prediction seem kind of crazy. And it took me 95 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:09,199 very little research in this particular case to find the video, which is by 96 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,680 the way, still on their Twitter feed. You can find it. The 97 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,000 eight predictions for the world in twenty thirty. Number one, you'll own nothing 98 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,839 and you'll be happy. And a few things strike me with that. It's 99 00:07:17,879 --> 00:07:24,160 not I'll own nothing and be happy. It's not we'll own nothing and be 100 00:07:24,279 --> 00:07:28,279 happy. It's you'll own nothing and be happy. So there's there's a clear 101 00:07:28,879 --> 00:07:32,560 distinction there that whoever's sharing this doesn't seem to think that they're a part of 102 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,680 it. It's that their their prediction for you and the idea that you're going 103 00:07:36,759 --> 00:07:41,959 to be happy. Because throughout history, people who haven't had property, have 104 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,680 not been free, haven't been particularly happy, and in many cases have ended 105 00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:49,519 up dead. So that didn't seem like a really good outcome and sort of 106 00:07:49,519 --> 00:07:55,439 a weird projection. So you know, I'm sort of pondering this, and 107 00:07:55,639 --> 00:07:59,759 one of the things, you know additionally that I know is as a student 108 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:05,800 of financial history, is that we are in a very weird time in sort 109 00:08:05,839 --> 00:08:09,079 of the global financial order. Also something that sounds like a conspiracy theory, 110 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:13,680 but just type into Google or duc duct go Joe Biden New World Order and 111 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,399 we can see all the times that he's said it, and it's on the 112 00:08:16,399 --> 00:08:22,120 White House's website and all of those things because it does happen on a regular 113 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,160 basis, Like we've been the center of the global financial universe for about eighty 114 00:08:26,279 --> 00:08:30,519 years. Before us, it was the British. Before the British, it 115 00:08:30,639 --> 00:08:33,679 was the Dutch. And you know, this is something that happens with, 116 00:08:33,879 --> 00:08:39,360 you know, pretty clear regularity. And so if you look at that and 117 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,559 you put on some of the other things that are happening, the debtload of 118 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:48,519 the United States, the fact that the Biden administration weaponize the dollar and froze 119 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,759 access to Russia after they invaded Ukraine to their reserves, the fact the Fed 120 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:56,480 hasn't kept the dollar stable domestically or on the international stage. Like, there 121 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,799 are lots of things that say, we kind of seem like there's a there's 122 00:09:01,799 --> 00:09:07,320 a push for change here. So if you are the wealthy and well connected 123 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,639 and you see these things happening, and you know history and you know that 124 00:09:11,159 --> 00:09:13,879 there's a change over time, do you just kind of sit back and go, 125 00:09:15,039 --> 00:09:18,960 well, I hope this works out okay for me, or I believe 126 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,639 do you think that you know they go well, you know things are going 127 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,320 to change. I better make sure that I'm taken care of my cronies are 128 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,879 taken care of that, you know, we retain as much power and wealth 129 00:09:28,919 --> 00:09:33,960 going forward. And I would guess most people would say yes. Of course 130 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,919 they're going to say the latter. And I think that's kind of where this 131 00:09:35,919 --> 00:09:39,360 this all comes from, is that they're trying to get as much for themselves 132 00:09:39,879 --> 00:09:43,039 that they kind of don't care. It's not that they're they're coming from a 133 00:09:43,039 --> 00:09:46,240 place of like, we're trying to make you own nothing. It's just that 134 00:09:46,279 --> 00:09:50,840 we're trying to get what we can. We don't care if you have anything. 135 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,519 And by the way, if you buy into it that it's much easier 136 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,120 for us to affect this change. If you decide you don't want to own 137 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,440 things, and you somehow believe that this is better for you, then it's 138 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:07,240 going to be much easier than if you resist. You have some really interesting 139 00:10:07,279 --> 00:10:11,360 history in the book. You talk about Bretton Woods and here's the phrase you 140 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,440 use exactly the post World War two quote rise of the US financial Empire. 141 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,799 But then right afterwards you do the downfall of Bretton Woods and the emergence of 142 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,200 the petro dollar. And this is really really interesting issue, really relevant history, 143 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:28,159 and I wanted to ask just if you could talk to people who haven't 144 00:10:28,159 --> 00:10:33,879 had the opportunity to read the book yet, maybe what people's appetites for your 145 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:39,200 argument as what happened in that shift from Bretton Woods to the downfall of Bretton 146 00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:43,519 Woods and the rise of the US financial empire. Though, it all really 147 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,879 hinged on this time in the early nineteen seventies when President Nixon decided to take 148 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:54,000 us off the gold standard, and that really created a shift because we had 149 00:10:54,440 --> 00:11:00,559 a representative currency, a currency that was basically your dollar was stood for gold. 150 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,759 It was as good as gold, as they like to say in terms 151 00:11:03,759 --> 00:11:09,360 of international trade. And the reason behind that was to have stability in the 152 00:11:09,399 --> 00:11:13,000 money if you're going to have it as a unit of account or a unit 153 00:11:13,039 --> 00:11:18,200 of measure like that measuring stick kind of needs to be pretty clear and stable 154 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,759 otherwise one day, I mean, imagine if your ruler one day a foot 155 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:26,320 was six inches in stay it was twelve inches. Kind of hard to do 156 00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:31,480 measurements somehow. When money is that unit of measure, you know that shifts, 157 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:37,039 and nobody seems to care and take that as an issue. And so 158 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,840 once we came up the gold standard and everyone was going, Okay, you 159 00:11:41,879 --> 00:11:43,360 know, we said that we were going to use the dollars. You know 160 00:11:43,399 --> 00:11:48,919 what's going on here. Basically, we made a deal with Saudi Arabia, 161 00:11:50,039 --> 00:11:52,919 who you know was kind of the head still really is at the head of 162 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:58,200 the Arab oil producing countries. They're producing a ton of oil, and we 163 00:11:58,759 --> 00:12:01,279 kind of came to terms with them and said, okay, here's the deal. 164 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,200 You're going to agree that oil is going to be priced in dollars. 165 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,240 It's going to be the you know, we'll do what we can to keep 166 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,399 it stable for you, and you're going to take those dollars and you're going 167 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,000 to plow them back into treasury securities so that we can finance our government cheaply. 168 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,159 And what do you get for that. We're going to protect you militarily. 169 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,480 And you know, Saudi Arabia looked at the range of options for the 170 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,039 range of other countries and went, yeah, okay, that seemed to make 171 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:35,879 sense. And so as Luke Gromman, who is a really great economist particular 172 00:12:35,919 --> 00:12:39,120 around the area of oil, says that we went from you know, the 173 00:12:39,159 --> 00:12:41,320 dollar being as good as gold, as being as good as gold for oil, 174 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,559 and that ended up being sort of, you know, almost the de 175 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:52,399 facto reserve for the dollar, and the FED would make decisions that you know, 176 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,919 if if oil got too higher, too low, they would shift the 177 00:12:56,039 --> 00:12:58,600 interest rate so that oil would go back to trading in a narrow range, 178 00:13:00,039 --> 00:13:03,080 and it would make sense, you know, on sort of this many dollars 179 00:13:03,759 --> 00:13:07,039 buys oil. And that's important if you are think about a country today like 180 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:13,399 China, which is a net importer of you not only food, but oil, 181 00:13:13,159 --> 00:13:16,240 and these are all priced in dollars, and all of a sudden, 182 00:13:16,279 --> 00:13:20,440 you don't hold the dollars stable as the reserve currency, and it takes from 183 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:26,840 that more US dollars in order to buy food and to buy oil. Well, 184 00:13:26,879 --> 00:13:31,080 that becomes a matter of economic security for them and potentially national security. 185 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:37,879 So US moving away from you know, kind of really holding the dollars stable 186 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:46,679 on the international stage was a big catalyst in terms of shifting what's happening in 187 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,360 the financial world order. And when you're hearing things like the Bricks countries, 188 00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:56,399 which is Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa looking to 189 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:03,000 move away from the dollars in distansion to the weaponization of the reserves, it's 190 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:07,600 that this instability of the dollar that they have been experiencing. And it's funny 191 00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:13,440 because coming out of Breton Woods, there is an economist, Robert Triffin noted 192 00:14:13,519 --> 00:14:18,879 economists who had this thing called Triffin's dilemma. On part of it was that 193 00:14:18,919 --> 00:14:22,320 when you hold the world reserve currency or always trying to have a trade off 194 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:28,879 between holding the dollars stable or the reserve currency stable for the domestic economy, 195 00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:33,320 in this case the US and the world. What's amazing to me is that 196 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,679 the Fed has done neither. Right, We've experienced a huge debasement of the 197 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,919 dollar here in the United States. It's not stable. Maybe it's good against 198 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,799 other countries, but not when you go to the grocery store, right, 199 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,919 it's not buying the same amount of groceries that you've got a couple of years 200 00:14:48,919 --> 00:14:52,879 ago. And it's also not stable on the international stage. So they've managed 201 00:14:52,919 --> 00:14:56,879 to do neither. And again, these are all little kind of like signposts 202 00:14:56,879 --> 00:15:03,399 and catalysts that are sending the signals up to the people going, yeah, 203 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,960 I'm not sure how much longer this particular scenario can last. And you know, 204 00:15:09,039 --> 00:15:11,840 as we see in history, you know, these are the kinds of 205 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:16,320 things and the kinds of ships that we see that have happened at the end 206 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:22,000 of these other financial empires. Yeah, it's like I think what you're describing 207 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:28,679 as maybe this sense of existential dread that people in the know are picking up 208 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,320 on or that they feel and then lash out by sort of trying to protect 209 00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:37,679 their own mini empires and their fiefdoms. People might use your critics might say, 210 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,320 you know, that sounds conspiratorial. You know, as you alluded to 211 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:48,720 earlier, how much of this is intentional or how much of this is transparent 212 00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:50,919 and public? You know, we can we can see this happening as is 213 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,919 the case. I mean, this is on the World Economic Forum website some 214 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:56,399 of it, as you mentioned. Um, So to people who say, 215 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:02,639 you know, that sounds like that sounds it's like these long time French conspiracy 216 00:16:02,679 --> 00:16:07,720 theories about the shadowy puppet master rightings. Um what's what's the kind of reality? 217 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:11,039 Um, as you've you've researched it, what does it really look like? 218 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,360 Yeah? Well, certainly you know in terms of financial world orders shifting. 219 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,919 If you tell me as a conspiracy, I'm going to say, well, 220 00:16:18,919 --> 00:16:22,039 how did Brett Woods come about? You know, how did the British 221 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,360 take the post position from the Dutch like explain that to me, like I, 222 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:29,639 you know, I didn't make that up. That's very well documented and 223 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,879 you know people I quote, you know, age hedge fund manager Ray Dalio 224 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,600 in the book. He's done a lot of great research on the different financial 225 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:42,159 orders and history and cycles. Um. So we know that part's not a 226 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:47,639 conspiracy. In terms of the US being a little long in the tooth, 227 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,120 you look at our debt to GDP. We have a publicist public debt, 228 00:16:52,159 --> 00:16:55,879 not including the intragovernmental part, but public debt to GDP is at one hundred 229 00:16:55,919 --> 00:16:59,559 and twenty five percent. You can go back to the imf UM, you 230 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,960 know, they they kind of say that things get a little out of control 231 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,079 somewhere between seventy and eighty percent. The Treasury has said we're on an unsustainable 232 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:12,079 fiscal path. The CBO has said we're on an unsustainable fiscal path. So 233 00:17:12,519 --> 00:17:18,960 that's I'm not sure where the conspiracy isn't there. In terms of dedollarization, 234 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:26,319 we have seen central bank lighten up on their reserves, particularly at an accelerated 235 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:32,279 pace. The pace between twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two was ten times 236 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:37,519 more the sort of standard or average pace that of you know, kind of 237 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,599 degradation and the reserve holdings from years past, and we have you know, 238 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,359 the bricks countries coming out. They have a conference in August where they said 239 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,000 they're going to be exploring other currencies because they don't want to depend on the 240 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,359 US dollars. So like, again, I didn't say that. And you 241 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,960 know, it's not like a bunch of tinfoil hat people saying it. Like 242 00:17:56,039 --> 00:17:59,920 they're the ones who are saying it. When it comes to the new World 243 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,599 Order. You go to the White House's website. March twenty one, twenty 244 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,720 twenty two, speech before the Business Roundtable, which is the CEOs of all 245 00:18:08,839 --> 00:18:12,000 the major companies in the US, do you know most of the publicly traded 246 00:18:12,039 --> 00:18:17,240 companies and maybe some others, And Joe Biden literally said this. I mean, 247 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,279 I'm sure someone else wrote it for him, but he said it aloud 248 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,960 that you know, this is something that happens every three or four generations. 249 00:18:23,519 --> 00:18:26,759 There's going to be a new World order out there, and we've got to 250 00:18:26,839 --> 00:18:33,480 lead it. So like, I'm not sure which element of this seems theoretical. 251 00:18:33,519 --> 00:18:37,720 If you want to say it's a conspiracy, the conspiracy the coordination is 252 00:18:37,759 --> 00:18:42,559 with these different organizations that are working together and happen to be saying the same 253 00:18:42,599 --> 00:18:49,200 things and signing on to principles together. But it's certainly not theoretical, like 254 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:55,519 I'm showing you that they're saying it. One thing I found so interesting about 255 00:18:55,559 --> 00:19:00,720 this book is a lot of people, something that frustrates me actually on the 256 00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:07,640 very brave, courageous and smart people who are fighting the political establishment and who 257 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,119 are very clear eyed about the problem ahead of us. Also then, UM, 258 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:17,319 in so many cases are looking to government for answers. And I see 259 00:19:17,319 --> 00:19:22,400 this especially in the right a lot a lot of politicians. Like one thing 260 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,079 that it blows my mind is the child cash payment policy, which is like 261 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,319 you're you're asking for the government to have more strings to control families, to 262 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:34,480 say you are not getting your cash payment that you now rely on because you 263 00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:41,279 will not vaccinate your child with you know, experimental mRNA technology whatever it is. 264 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,119 UM, I guess I want to ask you about that dynamic. Um. 265 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,319 You know, how should people who on the one hand do see the 266 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,200 sort of cultural economic wreckage of so much of this consolidation, and on the 267 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:59,160 other hand want to fix it. Um, what is the solution, you 268 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:04,200 know, what is the solution outside of consolidating more government power or giving the 269 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:11,559 government new opportunities to wield power over people. Yeah. I always liken it 270 00:20:11,599 --> 00:20:15,240 to the arsonist who's burnt down your house and then he comes with like a 271 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,039 water bottle and he's like, hey, I wanna help you put the fire 272 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,559 out in your house. So sorry it's burnt down. It's like, okay, 273 00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:26,319 ay, you burned it down, but you've got a water bottle. 274 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,200 How's that helping? And so I feel like it's the same thing with these 275 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,960 entities. You know, the different categories that I have in the book are 276 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,799 sort of government and government related, which is you know, Congress and the 277 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,920 Fed and you know, those kinds of things. These what I call bad 278 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:47,680 actors. So the WEF the un big businesses, you know, kind of 279 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:52,440 all these big connected, you know, elite people, and then big tech 280 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,359 stands in a category by itself because you know, many cases they have become 281 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:02,880 de facto governments themselves, and their size and scale and scope are really frightening 282 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,039 when it comes to this. So you have to kind of look to each 283 00:21:06,039 --> 00:21:11,920 of these individual issues to figure out where the problem is. There probably is 284 00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:15,880 some role for government in some of these things, and as somebody who's a 285 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,519 small government person, it kind of pains me to say that. But the 286 00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:25,240 reality is, when you're looking at something like big tech and sort of the 287 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:30,920 need for a bill of digital rights, I think that when you think about 288 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,640 the telephone, and you're probably not old enough, Emily, but back when 289 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:40,000 I was a kid, I had a rotary phone. At one point, 290 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,440 I had a phone with little buttons and you'd call and like your friend's mom 291 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,039 would answer the phone. You'd be like, oh, no, it's the 292 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,799 mom, high Missinessode. So I'm so glad it's not the dead. Oh 293 00:21:51,079 --> 00:21:53,880 that's talk to Jane, you know. Like so things were very, very 294 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,920 different. But one thing that was a law was that, you know, 295 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:02,440 this was infrastructure, and you know, the government sort of protected the right 296 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,319 to infrastructure and said, your telephone company, you know, you'll have this 297 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,359 privilege because there's only you know, so many of you that are you know, 298 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,039 can lay cables and you know have the opportunity to do this, but 299 00:22:12,079 --> 00:22:15,640 you can't refuse service to anyone. So it's not like you and I had 300 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,359 a conversation. They didn't like what we said, or maybe they didn't like, 301 00:22:19,519 --> 00:22:22,759 you know, where one of us worked, or we ate too many 302 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,640 burgers or whatever it was, and they just said, sorry, you can't 303 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,960 talk on the phone anymore. Like that's I think, like you put in 304 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,440 that context that sounds insane, but it's exactly the kinds of thing that's happening 305 00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:37,000 in the digital sphere. And if you think about like your phone, your 306 00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:45,039 access to the digital world, there's two companies whose operating systems cover ninety nine 307 00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:48,799 plus percent of the planet, not just the United States, but the planet. 308 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,480 So there's no free market, there's no capitalism, there's no competition. 309 00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:57,480 It's it's infrastructure with a with a duopoly. So I think, you know, 310 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,960 we do need again in the same spirit of a regular bill of rights, 311 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,559 that we have these natural rights that need to be protected, and they 312 00:23:06,599 --> 00:23:11,559 need to be protected now in this sphere, and we're probably going to get 313 00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:14,640 it wrong, but we need to start to go down that path to at 314 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,119 least, you know, kind of try to ran this in a little bit. 315 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,559 But there's other places where clearly the problem is not going to be solved 316 00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:26,079 by more government. I mean, one of the things that's in the news 317 00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:30,160 that I would imagine is probably near and dear to your heart and some of 318 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:36,000 your listeners. Is this whole student loan debacle right that you know, oh, 319 00:23:36,079 --> 00:23:40,039 we're going to forgive student debts to become such a hot button issue and 320 00:23:40,319 --> 00:23:44,920 everybody's sitting and they're talking about the symptom, but not the ailments. And 321 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,279 the ailments is the fact that the government nationalized student lending in large part, 322 00:23:49,319 --> 00:23:55,119 and in doing so, not only became the largest predatory lender probably in the 323 00:23:55,279 --> 00:24:00,799 entire world, but they also enabled a wholesale wealth transfer from young people like 324 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:06,640 in some cases minors like seventeen years old up to eight, people who are 325 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:11,400 very young and don't have sort of the experience to maybe evaluate an ROI, 326 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:19,079 and they're enabling that transfer wealth to colleges and their administrators and basically handicapping the 327 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:25,920 ability for smart young people who think that they're going to college to better their 328 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,359 situation to now be you know, indentured servants of the state for the rest 329 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,079 of their lives. And so the idea that you're going to get them to 330 00:24:34,759 --> 00:24:38,720 somehow help by like, you know, oh, we're gonna we're gonna forgive 331 00:24:38,839 --> 00:24:42,839 some of this debt. When you need to get the government out of lending. 332 00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:47,240 You need to have underwriting. You need to bring bankruptcy back, which 333 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,720 the government got rid of. You need to, you know, have the 334 00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:53,519 colleges have some skin in the game. You need to reset the entire system 335 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:59,000 here. But you have people who are sitting and arguing about like what level 336 00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:03,920 of debt forgive this should happen instead of just addressing like okay, I think 337 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,480 we've missed the entire point and the fact that you don't have politicians that are 338 00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:11,400 standing up like if I were running right now, I would that would be 339 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,519 like one of my first things is like, you know, we are we 340 00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:19,559 are enabling a wealth transfer from young people to colleges. That's wrong, That's 341 00:25:19,599 --> 00:25:25,240 fundamentally wrong. We you know, we are saddling young people with debts. 342 00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:27,960 Instead of giving them opportunities, we're taking away their wealth creation opportunities. We're 343 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,319 creating bearers. Like why wouldn't that be one of the top things that people 344 00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:34,240 are concerned about right now? Yeah, based on a why. And it's 345 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,680 another great parallel with the child cash payments. It's like, if you wanted 346 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,240 to stort the market that way, you're also creating a stick that the government 347 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,359 can use to as they've done with universities for years, comply with your ideological 348 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,920 demands. So it just that's another perfect example of the following book and without 349 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:59,440 getting into too much into the culture war aspect of this, but for poor 350 00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:06,480 people, there has been no focus on like, let's teach you about ownership, 351 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,839 let's find ways to remove barriers so that you understand the difference between spending 352 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,759 and investing and that you can stand on your own two feet. Everything they've 353 00:26:15,759 --> 00:26:18,839 done has been the opposite, and getting them to depend on the government so 354 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,839 that they can buy the votes and cement the power. And I think in 355 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:30,200 sort of these socioeconomic areas that are more poor and have these like long term 356 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,759 structural issues, like they're the number one people who need the like you will 357 00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:38,400 own nothing message, right like that because they've lived it, but they don't 358 00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:45,839 understand where that's coming from. There they've identified the problem, but they don't 359 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,039 know where that has come from or what the solution is. And so much 360 00:26:51,079 --> 00:26:56,799 would shift if we got more people thinking about this ownership mentality and oh, 361 00:26:56,839 --> 00:27:02,079 by the way, told them that that's that's the American promise here, right, 362 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,920 that's what you're doing here, and you should be able to see that 363 00:27:06,039 --> 00:27:08,759 just like everybody else, I want to ask, we're crypto factors into this 364 00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:15,400 equation because Sam bankman Fried was sort of notoriously fitted by Bill Clinton and kind 365 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:21,519 of elites around the world for a while. But obviously there are a lot 366 00:27:21,559 --> 00:27:26,720 of sincere crypto boosters who see it as an important tool against exactly what you're 367 00:27:26,799 --> 00:27:30,759 describing. So from your perspective, where does the crypto order kind of fit 368 00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:33,920 in here? So this is a really good question, and I'm going to 369 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,720 speak to it in a neutral way because just for full disclosure, I'm not 370 00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:44,279 a crypto person personally, like I'm not somebody who's invested in bitcoin or theorium. 371 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,319 It doesn't fit my personal investment thesis. But I also haven't dismissed it 372 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,559 either, so I have I feel like a fairly neutral approach to it. 373 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,640 I think the first thing is the thesis. The reason why people are interested 374 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:03,119 in something like bitcoin is exactly the kinds of things that we're talking about. 375 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,599 And you will own nothing, particularly the pieces around the debasement of the dollar 376 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,599 and the fact that we have a federal government as well as a federal Reserve 377 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:18,759 working together that have done everything they can to just erode the value of the 378 00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:22,160 dollar, that don't seem to know that it's supposed to be a proxy for 379 00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:26,599 productivity, that think that it's just something that you can print at nauseum and 380 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,119 you know that won't have any impacts on your life, and they just have 381 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:36,400 been derelict in their duty. There's lots of moral hazard around the entire structure. 382 00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:41,759 And so you know, the idea that you don't believe in fiat currency, 383 00:28:41,079 --> 00:28:45,759 you don't trust the government, and you want to have something that is 384 00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:48,519 separate and you not able to be manipulated. And I'm not going to weigh 385 00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:53,200 in on whether that's true or not, but just that thesis puts with everything 386 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,960 that we're talking about here, and particularly as we move closer to a potential 387 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:04,160 central bank digital currency which is looking to exploit and conflate the interest in crypto 388 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:11,039 UM with you know, their own very highly centralized digital based currency, which 389 00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:15,240 means it's nothing ohing like, but enough people will be confused by it, 390 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,960 and particularly with the with the Sam Bateman Freeds of the world, you know, 391 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,880 the issues particularly with like something like a bitcoin, these kind of high 392 00:29:23,039 --> 00:29:27,559 higher end cryptos. If if you will, UM is that it's really the 393 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:33,200 issues have been at the exchange level. It hasn't been at the currency level. 394 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,160 So that has been where there's been, um, you know, these 395 00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:42,079 kind of frauds and issues and whatnot. Is you know, how how these 396 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:48,480 exchange mechanisms, which they themselves are not crypto there are services provider um. 397 00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:52,960 You know, that's been the challenge and so I think it's a challenge for 398 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,640 the industry overall. But imagine the pitch if you're the government saying, well, 399 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:02,960 you can't trust the crypto industry because it's not the government, but you 400 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,599 should trust the government. We're not going to mention that we're the ones that 401 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,119 debased your money, but again, oursons too, burned your house down's got 402 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,640 his water bottle, and so you should trust us. And we saw this 403 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,359 emily with the stimulus payments, right, we saw how people just fundamentally don't 404 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,599 understand what money is, where it comes from, you know, what his 405 00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:29,279 purpose is. And people were like, I need my stimulus check, I 406 00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:32,480 need my thousand bucks or my twelve hundred bucks, you know, whether they 407 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,680 were the Donning dollars or the Biden bucks, that I just want my money. 408 00:30:36,079 --> 00:30:38,559 And there were people like me and others who are standing up going no, 409 00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:41,240 it's a trick. Don't do it. You're going to end up paying 410 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:47,240 seven or ten thousand dollars a year for the rest of your life or more 411 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,160 for taking that money because you just can't do that. It just you can't 412 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,599 create money from nowhere. It's it's a trick. They're going to debase the 413 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,960 currency, and they just didn't understand that. And so I could imagine a 414 00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:04,279 scenario where they use these carrots to get people into a highly centralized currency, 415 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:10,359 which would further cement their power and control, would you know, completely take 416 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,920 away any privacy that you have and potentially any agency that you had over your 417 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,960 money. And they'll say things like, Emily, I'm going to give you 418 00:31:19,319 --> 00:31:25,680 a hundred digital dollars. If you just give me one dollar, you're going 419 00:31:25,759 --> 00:31:27,599 to be rich, and you're like, yes, I'm going to be a 420 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:34,119 millionaire. This is great. Or they do things like you know, they 421 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,319 say, hey, if you want universal basic income, we're going to only 422 00:31:38,359 --> 00:31:42,920 pay that out in digital currency. Or you don't like inflation, well we 423 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,319 can control inflation if we have a digital currency. Not letting people know that 424 00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:52,279 when they say, oh, I'm going to slow down, you know, 425 00:31:52,359 --> 00:31:56,519 purchasing, and I'm gonna destruct demand. I'm not doing that anymore with interest 426 00:31:56,599 --> 00:31:59,680 rates. I'm going to do that by literally shutting off the access for you 427 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:05,599 to that. So I think there are a lot of carrots out there which 428 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:13,799 are financially A literate population will jump on to make these things become reality and 429 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:21,039 in turn ensure that we have less freedom and opportunity, and that unfortunately, 430 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,319 you end up ooning nothing. We talk a lot about social credit, you 431 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,319 write about it in the book, and people are really afraid of the kind 432 00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:35,119 of Chinese style social credit system, although we kind of have had right I 433 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,519 was gonna say, and you're right about this, we have sort of a 434 00:32:37,559 --> 00:32:39,759 soft social credit system. We think of what's happening in China and it is 435 00:32:39,839 --> 00:32:44,480 much more extreme and intense, But we have a we have a version of 436 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,680 credit. Obviously we have for years. What should people be looking for? 437 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,279 Um, when it comes to the evolution of that is it already dangerous? 438 00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:57,440 Word is? And how much worse could it get? In the United States? 439 00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:00,680 So I start to see it as through steps, I see you cancel 440 00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:08,039 culture, which we clearly already have becoming sort of this informal social credit becoming 441 00:33:08,079 --> 00:33:13,720 a completely structured state system. And I would offer that we're probably in the 442 00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:17,480 middle. If you think about what happened during the pandemic, and you had 443 00:33:17,559 --> 00:33:23,119 the state issuing these mandates and you had a bunch of useful idiots running around 444 00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:25,519 going, yeah, I know you have to do this. You know, 445 00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:32,519 they came after your social standing, which is your opportunity to get new ways 446 00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:37,279 and new paths to create wealth. So you know, you don't want to 447 00:33:37,279 --> 00:33:40,559 be a toxic person or else nobody's going to hire you for that next gig 448 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,920 or present you an opportunity. So if you weren't wearing a mask, they 449 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,240 took a video of you and put it on social media, or they said, 450 00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:52,519 you know, you don't have a vaccine card, so you can't come 451 00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:58,240 into a restaurant, you can't participate in society. The next level of that 452 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,400 is actually coming after your job. And we saw that, you know, 453 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,480 we've seen that both in terms of you know, the cancel culture. Somebody 454 00:34:05,519 --> 00:34:07,920 says something bad and everybody goes to their employer and tries to get them fired. 455 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:13,119 But from the States standpoint, we saw that, you know, with 456 00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:16,079 the with the executive orders, that basically said no, you can't have your 457 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:21,199 job if you don't get a vaccine. And people who were very qualified in 458 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,159 areas where we really need people were all of a sudden separated for their job 459 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:30,880 because of a health mandate because you would not listen to the government to do 460 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,920 something that you put something in your body that you didn't want to taking away 461 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,559 that agency, you know, over your body. So that was pretty staggering. 462 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:44,000 And then you know the third level of that is actually taking away your 463 00:34:44,039 --> 00:34:49,159 ownership. And you know they did that for small businesses. You know, 464 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,800 they stepped down a third of the economy at one point in time, and 465 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:58,440 you know they took for some period of time businesses. We saw our neighbors 466 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,159 to the north, if you were part of the Freedom convoy, the truckers, 467 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,559 they froze access to the bank accounts. So and then you know, 468 00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:09,440 outside of the realm of COVID, we see this all the time where somebody 469 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,199 says something bad on social media and they get two platforms and now all of 470 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,679 a sudden, not only can they not use the town square, maybe they 471 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:22,199 lose their PayPal account or their bank account or you know YouTube. I know, 472 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:28,719 with my book right now, I'm not allowed to advertise using Google and 473 00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:36,239 YouTube on and off because you know, quote unquote election advertising. But anyone 474 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,639 seeing my trailer has nothing to do with an election, so you know, 475 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,800 I'm going to have to kind of put a question mark around that. So 476 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,760 when you think about this in sort of a social credit system, there's really 477 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,159 two ways to kind of get it formalized at the state level. Is one, 478 00:35:52,199 --> 00:35:57,760 as you need the technology to be able to gather information and store it 479 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,920 and analyze it at scale, which certainly we have that capability today. And 480 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:06,320 the second is you need the buy it, and what COVID taught us is 481 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:12,039 unfortunately we have the buy it. There are enough people who derive some sort 482 00:36:12,119 --> 00:36:16,119 of what I call rowe return on ego for being part of the you know, 483 00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:21,000 the right crowd. The fact that you know, you can put an 484 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,920 emoji in your bio, or show everyone your picture with your mask, or 485 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,920 put a sign in your front yard where t shirt, or just maybe get 486 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,079 a visit to the White House or you know, whatever it is. But 487 00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:37,360 you get some sort of you know, other benefit for being part of this 488 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:43,480 group that you know somebody has decided is in the moral rights, and you 489 00:36:43,519 --> 00:36:47,760 know that creates the mechanism for social credit. And on top of like on 490 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:52,400 the personal side, you know, we're also seeing it on the business side 491 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:57,199 in terms of ESG. And you know, this is interesting as it relates 492 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:04,559 to the China system because in China, their formalized social credit actually started for 493 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,880 businesses, like it was more formalized for businesses than it is for individuals. 494 00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:15,079 And the reason is because you know, those where you get the really big 495 00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:19,360 important people, the billionaires and the people who are doing well, and if 496 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,000 you don't put those people in their place, then it becomes hard to control 497 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:27,280 everybody else. So it's um. You know, as you kind of go 498 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,760 through these things and peel back the onion, it's so crazy to see how 499 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,719 they all tie together and how they all kind of come back to this this 500 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:40,360 umbrella theme of you know, your ownership and all the things that that property 501 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,840 rights stand for. I mean, it was so important to our founders. 502 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,880 It's the way you know, they talked about I mean, the reason America 503 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,079 is America's because it was one of the first places where there was this vast 504 00:37:52,639 --> 00:37:59,239 ownership over your own land, your own kingdom. There was this land to 505 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,360 spread out and to have autonomy over your life and to be part of a 506 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:10,639 community. And so it's just the live in a pod idea that people have 507 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,880 for us. And maybe if people aren't familiar with that, that's maybe another 508 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:20,079 good question for you, Carol. I think it's just they live in the 509 00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:23,239 pod, eat the bugs, you will own nothing. Meme is like it 510 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:30,360 is so dismissed. And I think it's probably true that not everybody who's part 511 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:36,239 of, you know, creating a system like that is nefarious and understands themselves 512 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,320 as a puppet master, but as somebody who knows this world and knows people 513 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,519 in it, what is the you know? Not for the Justin Trudeau. 514 00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:46,719 I think we all kind of can understand the Justin Trudeaus and the cloud Schwabs 515 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:51,599 because they're all over telling us what their motivations are left and right. But 516 00:38:51,679 --> 00:38:55,440 for the average person who is involved in this and is maybe facilitating it, 517 00:38:57,199 --> 00:39:00,440 why are they rationalizing in their own mind? You know, Yes, we 518 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:06,400 need more central control, we need to more surveillance, we need to take 519 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,639 people's decisions away from them. What's going on that they justify that? I 520 00:39:09,679 --> 00:39:15,599 mean, this super basic human nature. They're doing it because it benefits them 521 00:39:16,039 --> 00:39:22,159 and they can never imagine being on the other side of it and having it 522 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,159 used against them. I mean, it's just, you know, it's it's 523 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:30,800 simple, short term thinking. It works for me now, and so I'm 524 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,119 going to go along with it. And I think that is sort of the 525 00:39:34,559 --> 00:39:38,760 the crux of the issue is when you have these people and you know, 526 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:44,119 kind of goes back to the idea of right now, we're the center of 527 00:39:44,119 --> 00:39:49,519 the global financial universe and they're just a whole flow of people who can't imagine 528 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,480 that that was ever different or that could ever change. But I guarantee you 529 00:39:53,519 --> 00:39:57,559 if you went back to Britain, you know, before World War One, 530 00:39:57,639 --> 00:40:01,559 during that time of you know, the the British Empire's reign, the people 531 00:40:01,559 --> 00:40:06,320 of Britain probably went, oh my god, yeah, like we're always in 532 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,480 the center of the financial universe. And I was like, well, what 533 00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:12,679 about the US, the United States? Like how are they? How are 534 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,000 they ever gonna do anything? And so I think that's just human nature is 535 00:40:16,039 --> 00:40:21,239 like people, there are a lot of people who just can't see what they 536 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,559 can't see. They're aligned. It works for them until they're on the other 537 00:40:25,599 --> 00:40:30,760 side of it and it comes for them like they find that shocking, like 538 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,320 how the system terms Like, wait, I thought I was part of I 539 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,599 was aligned with you guys. I was for the right thing, Like, 540 00:40:37,639 --> 00:40:42,400 what do you mean that you're coming after me? So I think a lot 541 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,440 of this is just like really basic, simple stuff. I also think there 542 00:40:46,599 --> 00:40:52,760 is sort of this this savior complex where you know, like people buy into 543 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,320 that there's a group of people who are smart and amazing and they're working for 544 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,800 the good of the people. One of my favorite things that I shared in 545 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:05,320 the book is a little Twilight Zone episode. I don't know if that reticonated 546 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:09,400 with you, Emily, but basically, you know, for the listeners who 547 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:15,239 aren't familiar with it, and the old Twilight Zone Nut show, which is 548 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:20,159 just phenomenal all around, had a particular episode where these aliens came down to 549 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,800 Earth, and you know, at first, the people of Earth were really 550 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,719 skeptical, going, you know, why are these aliens coming here? What 551 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,679 do they want? You know, they can hurt us, And so they 552 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,639 always go, look, we have amazing technology on our planet. We see 553 00:41:34,679 --> 00:41:37,920 that you guys have wars and you have famines, all these things you don't 554 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:43,880 need to have that We're going to show you our technology, and we're going 555 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,400 to make your lives better. And of course, you know, at first 556 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,599 the people who Earth are like skeptical, going, that doesn't make any sense, 557 00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:52,679 why would they want to do that, Like, no, we were 558 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:57,079 just here to help you out. So they put the alien through a lie 559 00:41:57,119 --> 00:42:02,119 detector test and he passes with line call and they start using the technology and 560 00:42:02,159 --> 00:42:06,280 it's working and they're like, this is great. Well, at the same 561 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,480 time, there's like the CIA type group and they find one of the aliens 562 00:42:09,519 --> 00:42:13,800 like books that he's got behind. It seemed like some kind of a guidebook, 563 00:42:14,079 --> 00:42:17,400 and they decode the cover and the cover says to serve man, and 564 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,239 they're like, oh, well see they said they just want to camp, 565 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,119 come here and serve man. Like that's amazing, We're amazing, Like this 566 00:42:23,159 --> 00:42:28,599 is great. So things go along for a little bit. The aliens start 567 00:42:28,639 --> 00:42:32,440 inviting people of Earth to their home country. They've board the spaceships. Great 568 00:42:34,199 --> 00:42:37,840 the CI, one of the guys from the SA starts boarding a spaceship and 569 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,400 it turns out one of his colleagues has just decoded the rest of the book 570 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,559 and she runs to the spaceship. But she's like to third man, it's 571 00:42:45,599 --> 00:42:54,039 the cookbook, and I just feel like that the takeaway here is like to 572 00:42:54,239 --> 00:43:00,119 serve man is a cookbook, Like it sounds like great in theory, but 573 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,719 at the end of the day, you're totally misinterpreted what it is that they're 574 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:07,960 telling you. And so anytime I see these guys and no, I don't 575 00:43:07,039 --> 00:43:10,880 think there's a plan to serve us up and eat us, but maybe there 576 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,760 is, I don't. I don't know yet. Then the bugs, you 577 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,480 know, and the depopulation doesn't work. But I just I feel like, 578 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:24,119 like, why these people who have these amazing lives and they could go sit 579 00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:30,440 on their yachts, Like, are they really concerned about your life? Absolutely 580 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,480 not? And I think this blind faith and we need to follow this next 581 00:43:35,679 --> 00:43:39,119 leader and find the person who's going to save us and make us better. 582 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:44,239 And then plus they sell us the propaganda right like the oh, the climate 583 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,039 catastrophe, don't mind me on my private jet going back to my mansion on 584 00:43:49,079 --> 00:43:52,239 the waterfront. No, no, no, that's you know, don't worry 585 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,320 about that. But you you need to do this, and it goes back 586 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,119 to where we started, right, you will own nothing, not me, 587 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:00,440 Like I'm gonna be go over here having the time of my life, but 588 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:07,599 you will own nothing. And the other thing I wanted to ask was how 589 00:44:07,639 --> 00:44:13,840 important this question of children You write about it in the book. This is 590 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,000 the one that probably will freak a lot of people out when they read it, 591 00:44:17,079 --> 00:44:21,719 but it's also really central. I mean, when we think about property, 592 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,880 we think about land, we think about material possessions, but actually the 593 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,960 ownership of your own children shocked a lot of parents out in this area of 594 00:44:30,039 --> 00:44:35,599 Virginia. One dad all of said, you know, you let the teacher 595 00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:38,199 handle this. You know, the teacher knows better than the parents tell us, 596 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:42,639 particularly about children, and how central all of that is. So this 597 00:44:42,679 --> 00:44:45,599 was a really difficult part for me to write. One for full disclosure, 598 00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:49,719 I don't have children, as if some people don't think I should be weighing 599 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,599 on this, which is I think is fair. But the other part is 600 00:44:52,599 --> 00:45:00,519 just the concept of ownership over another human being is an uncomfortable discussion. Endpoint. 601 00:45:00,639 --> 00:45:05,199 But you know, as a parent who is responsible for your child, 602 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,599 you know from from the time that they are born, even before they were 603 00:45:08,639 --> 00:45:12,599 born, you know, up until the age of eighteen. I think the 604 00:45:12,679 --> 00:45:15,880 delineation is that you know that they're still your kids. And that you know, 605 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,440 as much as we can have ownership over a person, I think that 606 00:45:20,639 --> 00:45:24,800 parental relationship is important. And certainly there are times when they are really bad 607 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,639 parents who are infringing on their kids' rights, and you know that there are 608 00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:32,199 times when you know, we need to have some mechanism to shift that too, 609 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:37,599 because you know, not everybody's great and a good parent, but the 610 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:44,159 idea that like the state or the teachers or the school are in charge. 611 00:45:44,199 --> 00:45:47,719 Like I keep saying these talking points out of the left that are like you 612 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,199 know, oh, well, you know, they're all of our children, 613 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,360 and like no that, but like hands off, you know, step away, 614 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,960 Like if you know, every think of my parents, And if somebody 615 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,800 from the state was like, oh, your mom said like I'm yours, 616 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,639 I would kick them right because she would have said absolutely not, stay away 617 00:46:04,679 --> 00:46:09,719 from these crazy people. But there's this seeping of interference into it. And 618 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:16,800 I eat again to make Nazi Germany comparisons, and I hate to use nineteen 619 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:21,599 eighty four as a playbook instead of a work of fiction. But you know, 620 00:46:21,639 --> 00:46:24,760 as a Jewish person who saw my people go through this, I think 621 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:30,960 there are important parallels. And you know, if you think about the Hitler 622 00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:37,719 youth program that was incented to get children away from their families, have them 623 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:45,039 indoctrinated with propaganda, go and spy on families, friends, neighbors, and 624 00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:47,840 turn them back into the States. And also, by the way, the 625 00:46:49,039 --> 00:46:52,320 plot of nineteen eighty four right where the party that they called it in nineteen 626 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,880 eighty four had the same mechanism, and there were these, you know, 627 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,840 two main characters in the books through es central characters where their kids were the 628 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,719 way who actually ended up turning them in. So you know, the idea 629 00:47:04,199 --> 00:47:08,840 that you as a parent shouldn't know what's happening in a classroom and that your 630 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:14,480 parents that your teacher knows better. It's a guy on Twitter who is like, 631 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,599 you know, they don't ask people, don't ask doctors for second opinions. 632 00:47:17,639 --> 00:47:21,119 Why would you ask a teacher? And I'm like, you don't ask 633 00:47:21,119 --> 00:47:22,920 your doctor. You don't ask a doctor for a second But you just assume 634 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,119 that that he's like, what are you talking about? Of course you should 635 00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:30,239 be questioning everything. You have to get here. If it's something made, 636 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:31,920 you have to get a second opinion. So this idea that they're trying to 637 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,480 be like, no, just because somebody you know, shows up at a 638 00:47:36,559 --> 00:47:38,440 school and as a teacher that all of a sudden, they're like, you 639 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:43,840 know, a godlike figure, really really creepy and get there are a lot 640 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,679 of great teachers out there that you know, work really hard and care about 641 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:52,440 the students. The teacher's unions are professional extortionists, so we'll just leave them 642 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,880 to the side for a second. But just the idea that there's this, 643 00:47:55,000 --> 00:48:01,320 like any question about who should be deciding what's in the rights at any point 644 00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:07,400 in time for your child other than you really resonated with the theme. And 645 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,800 so you know, with my cover when I like went we went through all 646 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:14,039 these kind of tangible things that you own and we crossed them out. The 647 00:48:14,119 --> 00:48:16,719 last one was your life, and so you know, it could be your 648 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:20,400 freedoms, it could be your children, it could be a lot of other 649 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,039 things that's sort of encompassed that um. But you know, we tend to 650 00:48:24,039 --> 00:48:29,800 to think of these these tangible material things, but there is sort of this 651 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:34,840 this broader issue that touches you know, freedom, agency, family and the 652 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,920 like. Yeah, we did a podcast with Nita Farhanei from Duke earlier this 653 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:45,199 year, who was talking about AI's ability to decode brain waves. Um and 654 00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:50,199 again sounds like science fiction. That's your life, right if that is getting 655 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,639 uploaded sort of constantly to a cloud or to a database, and you know, 656 00:48:54,639 --> 00:48:59,280 you may say Google as a private company and they able to defend your 657 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,800 data, protect your data, good luck when the government comes docking with subpoenas 658 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:08,039 or is accessing them through their back door seven oh two authority or whatever. 659 00:49:09,159 --> 00:49:15,199 Why is it that the media, where we're supposed to be challenging power, 660 00:49:15,679 --> 00:49:22,400 supposed to be the fourth estates, supposed to constantly be questioning the abuse of 661 00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:29,000 power, is uncurious about everything that you're describing. There's great independent media out 662 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,400 there, you know. Obviously the Federalist is part of that, and we 663 00:49:31,559 --> 00:49:35,239 like to think that we're part of that. But for the most part, 664 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,440 the people who claim to be at the top of their profession, the Wall 665 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:43,079 Street Journal, Washington Post, New York Times aren't asking the right questions about 666 00:49:43,079 --> 00:49:45,840 any of this. Why, as somebody who studied this, do you think 667 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:51,280 that is Yeah, it's so weird because some of the places will do it 668 00:49:51,559 --> 00:49:54,320 some of the time, it's just not consistent. One of the things I 669 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:59,519 try to do in the book is when there was a corporate press or a 670 00:49:59,559 --> 00:50:02,760 means remedia outlet that you know, kind of supported the thesis. I try 671 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:07,480 to use them because I've made it seem like it was easier for those people 672 00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:12,199 to you know, harder for those people to say it's a conspiracy. I 673 00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,480 guess the best way to say it, Um, I can I just go 674 00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:19,719 back to, like, you know, the raiser, Like the simplest answer 675 00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,880 is the best answer. And I just think that it's how people are getting 676 00:50:24,039 --> 00:50:28,679 their benefits. And I think we've traded. I've used this this raiser already 677 00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:32,079 row a lot of ROI for aro. We like it used to be about 678 00:50:32,119 --> 00:50:36,800 you know, getting the investment and some of those kinds of things, and 679 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,719 now it's all about likes and am I in the right crowd? And you 680 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,039 know, did I get a check on Instagram? And you know, those 681 00:50:44,159 --> 00:50:49,079 kinds of things people are valuing, which I think it sort of enables this 682 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,000 you will owe nothing thesis because they're not valuing the same kinds of things anymore 683 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:58,079 up until the point that you know, the likes on social media are great 684 00:50:58,159 --> 00:51:01,159 until you try to pay your rent. And I don't know anybody who accepts, 685 00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:05,920 you know, Twitter likes for payments, So then that becomes very very 686 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:10,079 difficult. But if you think about just the way the circles have been built, 687 00:51:10,159 --> 00:51:15,079 I think a lot of the corporate press is part of the elite, 688 00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:20,800 and you know, it's like, it seems like it's been a recent phenomenon, 689 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,480 but I remember when I studied Murray Rothbard and him talking about the creation 690 00:51:25,679 --> 00:51:30,039 of the FED, that he said, you know, it was the academics 691 00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:37,800 and the press who basically carried the propaganda out and helped to enable the creation 692 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,280 of the FED because it was the only way that if you know, they 693 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,440 did that they would be getting better jobs, and they would be getting more 694 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,239 money, and they would be getting in the inner circles. So I think 695 00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:51,719 that in some ways that we maybe just you know again kind of only look 696 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,559 at now and see it is so bad, But in some ways it's always 697 00:51:54,559 --> 00:51:58,639 been there, at least at some level, and now that there are more 698 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:04,760 choices has become more apparent. And that also, you know, politics has 699 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:10,320 become more of a national religion and sports system than perhaps it has been in 700 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:16,000 the past. And I think twenty four seven news and social media has exacerbated 701 00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:21,519 that. Perhaps there's more space to fill, so with more space to fill 702 00:52:22,039 --> 00:52:24,599 that. You know, some of these things kind of go by the way 703 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:30,039 in terms of, you know, some of the principles that may have happened 704 00:52:30,119 --> 00:52:32,639 or something may have gotten scrapped in the past because it wasn't as objective we're 705 00:52:32,639 --> 00:52:36,239 now. It's like, yeah, well we got some rooms, so just 706 00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,639 throw it in there. But you know, it's the reality. I mean, 707 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:45,440 think about the questions that the reporter asked Joe Biden when he first started 708 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:50,320 about his favorite ice cream flavor, and you know, just some of the 709 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:55,559 the interference, the amount of times I saw articles telling you why inflation was 710 00:52:55,679 --> 00:53:00,280 good for you or that you know, you should eat lentil. Let me 711 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,400 just stuff where you're like, there's no again, no way that somebody printed 712 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,320 this in like a major outlet, and it's like no, no, I've 713 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:13,119 got like multiple examples of it, and so they've got to be currying favor. 714 00:53:13,559 --> 00:53:15,960 And I do think, you know, very much like you see in 715 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:22,440 the Treasury and the Fed. You know, this kind of revolving door between 716 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:28,400 Wall Street and higher learning institutions and those positions and all of the sort of 717 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,800 wealth and power that's created within that dynamic. I think that's the same thing 718 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,760 that happens in sort of the press and politics. I mean, look at 719 00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:40,159 somebody like Jensaki, who went in and she was you know, the press 720 00:53:40,199 --> 00:53:45,960 secretary so that she can audition for her MSNBC job, and then got the 721 00:53:45,079 --> 00:53:49,960 MSNBC job. And then you get people who you know, are with the 722 00:53:50,519 --> 00:53:52,719 press who then go into you know, whatever it is the academics, or 723 00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,760 they work for political campaigner, they become a spree speechwriter, or they get 724 00:53:55,760 --> 00:54:02,760 the podcasts, like it's it's like career. Your security for them to be 725 00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:08,440 in that you know, kind of circle, and again that protection that hey, 726 00:54:08,519 --> 00:54:12,239 if something goes down, I want to make sure that I have the 727 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,159 right alliances, and so I do. I think a lot of this is 728 00:54:15,199 --> 00:54:20,519 just basic human nature, which was, you know, what the founders really 729 00:54:20,559 --> 00:54:24,280 anticipated. I think in the way that they crafted you know, the original 730 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:30,239 documents, the founding documents, they've had a really keen sense of that and 731 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:36,599 how things go awry, and unfortunately we just have done a really crappy job 732 00:54:36,639 --> 00:54:40,880 over the decades of you know, forcing everybody to stick to that. One 733 00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:45,400 last question, and this is kind of a big question, but so much 734 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:52,119 of this starts to change as technology starts to change, and things you're describing 735 00:54:52,119 --> 00:54:57,679 about property, I mean even our concept of property rights, there's aspect of 736 00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,960 it that you know. We have mass literacy, we have the printing of 737 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:07,840 books, and then people lean into this new wonderful sense of justice and government, 738 00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:13,760 you know, the Enlightenment era and classical liberalism develops, and then you 739 00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:19,480 see the twentieth century come along, the World War two nuclear technology. All 740 00:55:19,559 --> 00:55:24,760 that goes to Breton Woods because there are these new ways to centralize control that 741 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:30,880 are sort of irresistible whenever you have a system. But also downstream of technology 742 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:37,760 you have marks. You if Nietzsche writing about what happens when a society is 743 00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:42,880 kind of godless, right that there's not this consensus about the foundation of truth. 744 00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,960 You know, when to destroy that concept of objective reality, you end 745 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,760 up one hundred years down the road with a generation of kids who say, 746 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,360 there's your truth, there's my truth, there's John's truth and Mary's truth, 747 00:55:54,360 --> 00:56:01,559 etc. So how much is that question of moral elativism that's now been kids 748 00:56:01,559 --> 00:56:07,000 have been conditioned to see the world as a place where objectivity is not real. 749 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:12,239 How much of that is laying the groundwork for then what you write about 750 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:17,719 people coming in and seizing ownership. I think it's all tied together. And 751 00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:23,119 I do think that technology plays a big role, because before you didn't have 752 00:56:23,559 --> 00:56:29,079 enough things to distract you during the day. So of course at some point, 753 00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,000 you know, everybody drags you off to church or whatever, or you 754 00:56:32,079 --> 00:56:36,320 read the Bible or the chur or whatever it is, because like you don't 755 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:40,280 have anything else to fill your time right now, Like you couldn't possibly do 756 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:45,000 all the things that you want to do. There's so many frivolous as well 757 00:56:45,039 --> 00:56:50,800 as material things that you can access and via technology at any point in time. 758 00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:57,039 It requires more discipline. And I do think that people have started moving 759 00:56:57,079 --> 00:57:00,360 towards politics, you know, as a substance to you. I mean, 760 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:04,960 I think people view I always say government is not your God, and you 761 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,000 know, I think people think that it is and their political party is their 762 00:57:07,039 --> 00:57:12,960 religion. And it's become a little bit crazy. And it's one of the 763 00:57:13,039 --> 00:57:15,519 things I always ask people. It's like, you know, what, what 764 00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:17,079 are your principles? Like I don't care what your political partis, Like, 765 00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:22,199 what are your principles? And so few people can really, you know, 766 00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:27,719 particulate. I think on the left can answer that question. I actually think 767 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,679 the Libertarians are probably the best at answering that question. But like like like 768 00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:36,719 like where is this kind of like what what is just kind of baseline principle 769 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,559 set for you? And I just don't think people are thinking in that anymore. 770 00:57:39,679 --> 00:57:45,000 So withn't that sort of backdrop and the idea that you know, you 771 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:50,119 can move through this digital world and you can not own things and things are 772 00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,119 easy breezy for you, and kids are conditioned, you know, from day 773 00:57:53,159 --> 00:57:57,599 one to kind of think about that. I mean, just if I think 774 00:57:57,639 --> 00:58:01,599 about the number of kids now who own drivers licenses, um, you know, 775 00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:07,320 versus fifteen and twenty years ago, I mean staggering. They don't want 776 00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,559 to step into that that freedom role. They don't want to go out, 777 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,760 you know, they want to stay into in this bubble. It just makes 778 00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:19,840 it that much easier to control people. And it's back where we started. 779 00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,519 The prediction is you'll own nothing and you'll be happy. And so for those 780 00:58:22,599 --> 00:58:29,519 young people who buy in either out of you know, they're conditioning, or 781 00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:35,119 out of the fact that they are just worried that they're never going to attain 782 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:39,920 these things, so or obtain these things and so they've put up this wall 783 00:58:40,559 --> 00:58:44,800 so that they you know, they don't feel like a failure. Oh. 784 00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,199 I never wanted to own a house anyway. I just wanted to yolo and 785 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,599 you know, show my pictures on Instagram as I go around the world and 786 00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,480 live in you know, Ben Breakfast, you know that set, you know, 787 00:58:55,519 --> 00:58:59,519 whatever it is. I think it's it's you know, it's a it's 788 00:58:59,559 --> 00:59:04,039 a clear to fence mechanism for them to say I don't want ownership because they're 789 00:59:04,079 --> 00:59:07,199 worried it's not going to work out for them. So I think all of 790 00:59:07,239 --> 00:59:08,920 those factors together, you know, I'd like to give you one neat little 791 00:59:09,079 --> 00:59:14,480 reason, but I think it's more of a giant puzzle of all of these 792 00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:19,880 factors kind of coming together at the right time that makes them more susceptible. 793 00:59:20,159 --> 00:59:22,719 And I think it's one of the reasons why the book is so in particular 794 00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:30,000 important for young people, because they haven't viewed the world in this way, 795 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:34,719 and they, you know, kind of in many cases are anti capitalists because 796 00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,800 they don't really know what that means, and it's been painted in a different 797 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:42,360 light and they've been sold a bunch of things that sound really nice in theory, 798 00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,119 but you know, don't work in any sort of practicality or math equation, 799 00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:50,840 so you know, having a different perspective, you know it shown to 800 00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:55,039 you and getting people on that track I think is really helpful because as we 801 00:59:55,079 --> 00:59:59,119 talk about, you know, these things, some of them are really big 802 00:59:59,159 --> 01:00:01,280 and like, we're not to be able to stop everything. But if you 803 01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:07,280 can personally kind of help yourself and put yourself in a better position and manage 804 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,440 through the chaos of the changes that may be coming, I think that is 805 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:15,000 going to be a really good outcome for people. Carol, you have been 806 01:00:15,079 --> 01:00:20,320 so generous with your time. The book is called You Will Own Nothing, 807 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,960 Your War with a New Financial Order and How to Fight Back. It is 808 01:00:23,039 --> 01:00:28,400 out on July eighteenth. Like I said, it's comprehensive. I really think 809 01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,079 it's an achievement. So go pick up your copy. Carol, really appreciate 810 01:00:31,119 --> 01:00:35,559 your time. Thank you. And one thing, everyone's been buying hard copies 811 01:00:35,679 --> 01:00:38,960 because you have to get in the habit of actually owning something solid. So 812 01:00:39,239 --> 01:00:43,880 this is your first step. Think about buying a hard copy of it so 813 01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,639 no one will change the words on you and you can start practicing owning everything 814 01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,480 that's right a lot of people don't know. If you buy a book from 815 01:00:51,519 --> 01:00:55,000 Apple or Amazon, you don't own it. You don't and they can change 816 01:00:55,039 --> 01:00:59,199 it. And you just think about all the historical works that they're going in 817 01:00:59,239 --> 01:01:00,880 and they're like, oh, to change that. So if you want to 818 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:06,440 know what I actually said at this point in time, they can't change unless 819 01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,360 they break into your house with like, you know, a pen and some 820 01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:15,119 scissors. A very poignant note to end on, Carol, thank you so 821 01:01:15,199 --> 01:01:17,239 much for your time. Thank you for such a great interview. I appreciate 822 01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:21,480 it. You've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm 823 01:01:21,519 --> 01:01:23,639 Emil Joshinsky, culture editor here at the Federalist. Will be back soon with 824 01:01:23,679 --> 01:01:28,559 more. Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for the friend