WEBVTT

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Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro
Roja. Open Minds Radio is the UFO

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news authority presenting evidence and the latest
news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your

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host, Alejundro Roja. Welcome to
UFO News Hour with Open Minds. We've

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got a lot of great step for
you for the new year. Welcome to

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twenty twelve. People, We've made
it. I know some of you thought

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you wouldn't even make it to twenty
twelve, let alone make it through twenty

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twelve. That's another question completely.
We'll see how we're all doing in a

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year from now and if we're going
to be having a show. I have

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a feeling, though, this is
my prediction that in three hundred and sixty

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five days, in one year from
now, I will be here doing another

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excellent show with a kick. But
guest, just like we got tonight,

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I think everything's gonna be all right. People, We're gonna be all right.

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So there we are. It's gonna
be a wonderful year, and we're

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starting it up with a bang because
tonight we have Bryce Zabel on the show.

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And this is great because he wrote, of course, one of the

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White House petitions that just ended and
unfortunately did not get enough signatures to move

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further. But we'll talk about why
he decided to launch his petition in December,

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what he thinks about in the aftermath, about how it did, why

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he did it, and we'll talk
about others. And it's very interesting and

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fun to hear all of this because
he is just a really great guy,

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very insightful. We're also going to
talk about the UFO Congress coming up in

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February, because Bryce is going to
be there speaking, And if you don't

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remember, you know he's been on
the show before. He's done things like

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working with Spielberg on the mini series
Taken, and actually Taken had taken some

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of the ideas from a series that
Bryce set it up called Dark Skies.

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Some of you are familiar with that
because it included MJ twelve and aliens and

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abductions and a lot of the kind
of mythology behind UFO UFOs in that television

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show, so pretty cool stuff.
We don't talk about this that this time

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because we talked about it before,
but he'll be talking about that and more

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at the congress. And what's fun
is that there's going to be a media

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panel some of the other people on
that panel are going to be Lee Spiegel,

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who writes for the Huffington Posts,
and also Ben Hansen, who was

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the star of the TV show Fact
or Faked, who's also really into UFOs.

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So we're going to get some insight
from some of these media people who

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are working right now, you know, on big media, mainstream projects.

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How flippin' exciting is that? That's
very, very exciting people. So this

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is going to be a lot of
fun talking with Bryce today. It's always

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a lot of fun to talk with
Bryce. We'll talk to him in just

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a minute, and of course before
that, we're going to talk some news.

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For those of you who have been
following my tweets and UFO Daily News,

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you'll know that I put up my
top twenty stories for the year,

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and it was hard to pare it
down to just twenty because there's a lot

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of stuff that happened this year.
So we'll talk a little bit about those

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or what was on there. But
we're going to talk and we'll have some

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shows coming up here this month.
We'll be reflecting on last year in all

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of the shows that we have,
I'm sure this month, but there's also

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been some news just in you know, the last couple of weeks, of

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course, because we weren't on last
week. And we have this news correspondent

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dude who comes on the show and
he's awesome. This guy is sweet.

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His name is Jason McClellan, and
he is here to talk some UFO news

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with us. Jason, talk some
news with us. Baby reading Zalajandro Win.

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Hello. Everyone, this is your
Open Lines News Briefer, Monday,

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January twod Welcome to twenty twelve.
Let's start off with a story that would

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have kill and handy had I known
about this when I was in college.

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But a student at the National Diversity
of Tainan, a city in southern Taiwan,

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recently missed class for two hours.
And while a student missing class isn't

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that strange, the excuse he offered
is the student filed an application with the

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school's administration to be excused from his
December fifteenth absence. According to The China

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Post, the student listed on his
application the reason for his absence as quote

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being snatched away by aliens. Quote. He alleged that he was quote held

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hostage and taken away by aliens from
an unnamed planet end quote. Surprisingly,

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the university approved the application the following
day, words spread, quickly drawing the

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attention of local media, and following
the media inquiries, the student reportedly filed

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an amended application, citing quote discomfort
as the reason for his absence. This

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new application was approved by the school
immediately quote, in order to put the

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whole event aside as early as possible. The student has since stated that his

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original claim of an alien abduction was
done for fun, but we don't know

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that for sure. Alejandro, Yeah, I'm glad he brought this up because

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it's kind of a funny story and
it's so weird that this guy would do

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this and that they would accept it, you know, as as an excuse

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and so but he's kind of saying
that he just made all this up.

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It so he doesn't believe he's abducted, is that right, right? He

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said it was just something he made
up. He was being silly and was

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surprised at the school actually approved it. But you know it, it's kind

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of strange that he would put he
would offer this excuse so the school would

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approve it. That's even stranger.
But then only after it drew a lot

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of attention from the media and he
was getting he was getting questioned and bothered

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a lot, and to get everyone
to leave him alone. That's when he

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filed this amended application. But so
who knows. He could have just been

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fooling around, but somebody could have
forced him the change his so slorry too.

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Hm hmmm interesting, Oh here's some
cool news. It's definitely cool to

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me. Tom DeLong, certainly best
known for his role as vocalist and guitar

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player in the pop punk band Blink
twenty eighty two, was on Coast to

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Coast. The accomplished musician, who
also plays in the band Angels and Airwaves,

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is a savvy entrepreneur as well.
But in addition to being a musician

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and businessman, Tom DeLong is a
budding ufologist. DeLong appeared on the popular

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radio program Coast to Coast AM on
Sunday, December eighteenth. He discussed with

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host George Knapp his deep interest in
UFOs and extraterrestrials, but explained that UFOs

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are much more than a casual interest
to him. DeLong explained that he actively

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researches UFOs and is done so for
many years. He described himself as a

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quote armchair academic in the field of
uthology and told Napp the story of how

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in the mid nineties, when his
band Blink twenty two signed their first record

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deal, he took the very first
check from the record company and bought a

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computer specifically to go on the internet
to research UFOs. Nappan DeLong conversed for

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three of the shows four hours,
and Napp lotted DeLong as a quote budding

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ufologist. While it was Delong's first
appearance as a guest on the show,

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he explained to Napp that he is
a Coast to Coast AM subscriber and listens

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to the show frequently and certainly all
the way back to when the show was

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hosted by one of the show's founders, Art Bell. DeLong was a terrific

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guest in my opinion, answering questions
intelligently, and he even provided listeners with

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a brief overview of stories and people
who are being discussed, making sure that

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the audience had appropriate background information,
because in addition to Coast regular listeners,

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there were a lot of Tom DeLong
fans listening to the show for the first

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time he appeared on the show.
When he appeared on the show, that

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appearance illustrated how well read he is
on the subject, and just how serious

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he is about researching UFOs. DeLong, in conjunction with his band Angels and

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Airwaves, recently launched a website,
Strange Times dot com that features UFO and

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other related news not typically reported by
mainstream media. The site regularly features stories

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by Open Minds, by me individually
and Alejandro as well, and it's worth

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a visit. And I wrote a
story about Tom DeLong about his interest in

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UFO with last month and it is
going to uppear in the February March twenty

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twelve issue of Open Minds magazine that
should hit shelves in well later this month.

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Yeah, I mean we're always talking
about this Tom DeLong and Strange Times,

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and we're always very excited about his
involvement. We both like to wear

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his shoes and make batchhoe company.
That's right. Mainly we both wear Tom

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DeLong shoes. Yeah, he makes
vegan shoes and wear veggies and animal dudes.

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But what's really cool. I'm happy. Of course, I've been excited

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because you've been pursuing an interview that
hopefully you'll get here soon. But it's

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great that he was on coast to
coast, so people start to know that

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about his interests because I think that's
important, you know, one of the

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things, and hopefully it'll be out
tomorrow. I wrote a Huffington post on

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celebrities and UFOs because this year there
have been a lot of celebrities talking about

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UFOs and it's kind of like last
year, our last year, right,

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this year hasn't happened as far as
I know yet, but it'll happen.

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Yeah, it'll happen. But I
think that makes people more comfortable. You

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know, school or the life is
kind of like high school, and it's

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like if the cool kids do it, then it's okay for everybody else to

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do it. And you know,
celebrities are the cool kids, and if

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they're cool, if it's okay to
talk to UFOs, and UFOs are cool,

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then everybody's going to think it's cool
and do it. You're exactly right.

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We saw I think we saw plenty
of that in twenty eleven. You're

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right, with a lot of the
celebrities talking about their personal experience experiences with

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UFOs and or extraterrestrials, and a
lot of it came out because of the

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flood of UFO related movies entering all
these press conferences and public appearances talking about

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the movie, you know, some
of the interviewers would jokingly ask the individual

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actors and actresses, well, have
you ever seen a UFO? And it

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would start the conversation and they would
say, yeah, I certainly have,

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and they say you're kidding, right, and they'd say no, not at

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all, and it would open up
that dialogue and people will go, oh,

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wow, he's not joking about this. I guess I can say I

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saw UFO too, and people won't
laugh at me. Yeah. One of

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the most fun when was last March
when Aaron Eckert, the actor for Battle

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Los Angeles Jay Leno, asked him
about UFOs and he shared his UFO siding

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and he didn't even ask Christy Brinkley, who was the next guest. She

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just came out and she was so
excited. Oh my gosh, you guys

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are talking about UFOs. I've seen
UFOs and she starts going off on her

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UFO siding. Right. Pretty cool. And the similar things happened with Sammy

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Hagar. You know, during an
interview they were interviewing him about his book

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He's really Cool. They talked about
one part in the book and he said,

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well, that was actually something that
really happened. What's cool about him

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is he doesn't share away. He
is so brave. He's like he's not

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like, oh yeah, let's talk
about something else. He's like, yeah,

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man, I talked to UFO,
I talked to aliens, and I've

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seen UFOs. UFOs are awesome.
I mean, he's just boom. He

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even made fun of himself to this
skit with on Jimmy Kimmel On Kimmel,

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Yeah, who is Jimmy Kimmel's little
guy Guermo? Guermo I think with the

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alien in there. So yeah,
he is just really bold and brave to

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just say hey, yeah man,
UFOs. Yep. I have a video

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of that actually from your story because
Doctor Drew spoke with him about UFOs.

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Yeah, that's right, and I
put that on my top twenty stories on

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the ufod Aliens dot com. But
I do agree. I think we're going

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to see a lot more of that, a lot more people, celebrities and

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the like coming forward in twenty twelve
with their personal experiences and opinions on the

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topic. Yep, cool stuff,
man, yep. Well. In other

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news, in November, a team
of astrobiologists proposed two new planetary rating systems

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that could help widen the search for
extraterrestrial life. We certainly talked about this

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new proposed these two new proposed systems
on open Minds radio back in November.

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To refresh your memory memory. They
suggested ranking planets on both an Earthly or

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an Earth similarity Index an e SI
and a broader planetary Habitability Index a PHI.

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And according to the International Business Times, the team of researchers has used

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their new rating system to develop lists
of planets and moons with the highest probability

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of hosting extraterrestrial life, and on
both of these lists, Mars ranked very

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high. On the e SI,
Mars was the third or fourth planet,

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just below all of the or many
of the GLISA planets. Remember we talked

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a lot about Gleiza five to eighty
one g, a planet which many scientists

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still debate whether it exists or not. But on the PHI the planetary Habitability

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Index, Mars came in second right
beneath the moon Titan. And based on

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these list, life on Mars looks
pretty favorable, and the year twenty eleven

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was filled with Mars discoveries. Recent
findings suggest the presidence of flowing water on

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the planet's surface, at least seasonally. Scientists also recently determined that large underground

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regions on Mars might be habitable.
NASA's Curiosity Rover, the world's biggest extraterrestrial

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explorer, will reach the planet in
the middle of this year and will search

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for signs of life. And while
life might already exist in the favorable conditions

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on the red planet, one visionary
here on Earth wants to colonize Mars.

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Elon Musk, co founder and CEO
of SpaceX who we've talked about many times

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on this show, recently stated that
he quote wants to put ten thousand people

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on Mars end quote and that's according
to the New Scientist. He reportedly went

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on to say, quote Ultimately,
we don't really want ten thousand people on

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Mars. We want millions, and
he claims he can do it for as

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little as two billion. Earlier this
year, Musk announced space Xen's plan to

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develop a fully reusable space launch system. He stated, quote We've not gone

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beyond Earth's orbit in a generation.
I want to change that. Rapid reusability

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is what will take us to Mars
end. Quote the SpaceX launch vehicle that

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could take humans to Mars is in
the company is the company's new Falcon Heavy,

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which is scheduled for testing in twenty
thirteen. So you can pack your

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bag, Dallejandro, because trip to
Mars is right around the corner. Get

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your bot to Mars. Yes,
my favorite movie, Not really, but

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it's a good movie. It's a
funny, fun one. Anything with Schwarznigga's

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fun. Yeah. Well, this
is a story that several people wrote on

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you wrote a story about this,
Alejandro, But it's a story about spaceballs,

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and not the mel Brooks movie,
but actual balls from space. A

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mysterious spaceball was recently found in Namibia, Africa that was three point five feet

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in diameter and weighed thirteen pounds,
and it hit the ground hard enough to

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create a whole thirteen inches deep.
The country's National Forensic Science Institute was baffled

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by the object, and similar objects
have been seen in parts of Africa and

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South America. A pair of similar
objects is actually on display in a museum

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in Argentina. All these mysterious space
balls tend to cause a bit of frenzy

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from people, assuming the objects are
some sort of alien vessel. They have

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been determined to be nothing more than
space junk. To be more precise,

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according to Discovery News, their composite
over wrapped pressure vessels or COPV something that

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stores gases under pressure in a space
environment. Any things are used on chips

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and the space station and various things
we send into space. But you wrote

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a story on this, Alejandro,
and Antonio Juneus, our colleague, wrote

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a story on this, and a
lot of people were writing about the space

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balls falling from space. Yeah,
and that's what's great about you know,

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we had written an article not too
long ago on it, or Antonio did,

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and so we were able to get
some I put quote to my story

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from him, and he put his
article in there from the magazine because this

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is a new occurrence. And this
thing looked exactly like what had fallen in

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many countries, including South America,
and what appeared to be tanks from Russian

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spaceships, right, and yeah,
Antonio had had something about this in the

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one of the Open Minds of magazines, and I'd actually Roswell on the Roswell

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edition. It was other kind of
UFOs, things that were thought to be

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UFOs that had crashed like right,
and there's one in in uh in Mexico

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City. Jim Musan, the Mexican
journalist, has one of these things,

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and I got to see one of
these in person, and they're they're strange

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balls, these these weird metal balls
that look like they've exploded, and they're

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very hard. They can't be cut
through, so they they confuse a lot

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of people and certainly look foreign.
But at the same time they look very

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earthly with all sorts of world marks. Right, But if you've never seen

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one, you'd definitely think that an
alien left his ball behind. Yeah.

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In other space news, scientists suggests
soliciting the public's help to search for traces

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of extraterrestrial life on the Moon.
Seti Institute has been searching for signals of

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extraterrestrial life for more than fifty years, but their search has been rather passive,

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scanning the skies for alien radio signals. Astrobiologist Paul Davies and research technician

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Robert Wagner think a more active search
is a better method. They recently published

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a scientific paper online in the journal
Acta Astronautica that calls for the search of

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alien artifacts on the Moon. This
two Arizona State University scientists suggests that alien

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life may have quote left traces on
the Moon in the form of an artifact

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or surface modification of lunar features,
according to the Daily Mail, to search

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for signs of extraterrestrial life on the
Moon, the scientists suggests focusing attention on

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images captured by NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, the LRO. According to the Guardian,

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quote NASA has made more than three
hundred and forty thousand LRO images public,

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but that figure is expected to reach
one million by the time the orbiting

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probe has mapped the whole lunar surface
end quote they issue. Scientists explain quote

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from these numbers, it is obvious
that a manual search by a small team

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is hopeless end quote, which is
why they suggest calling on quote amateur enthusiasts

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to assist with the process of scanning
the LRO images for potential alien artifacts.

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This isn't the first time that Davies
has suggested taking a different approach to searching

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for extraterrestrial science. In October twenty
eleven, Astrobiology Magazine reported how Davies wanted

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scientists to broaden the search for extraterrestrial
life by searching Earth for possible quote footprints

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left behind by extraterrestrial visitors, and
Alejandro, I love this quote, so

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I have to throw it in here. But a recent article on the Huffington

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Post accurately stated, and I think
you and I have said this many times

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on this show too, but quote, despite being well studied, Earth's closest

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neighbor, remains an enigma. Right, Yeah, that's what's interesting. And

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now we have two orbiters or two
that have just gotten there in the last

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couple of days, so we're checking
it out some more. I think we're

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you know, upping our stake on
the Moon because China's getting there soon too.

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But yeah, one question people have
about this story is that you know,

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it's disappeared Reviewed Journal, and it
is. This is a scientific journal

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that this paper has gotten into.
It's already been vetted and everything. You

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know, they've already done everything they
do when they make sure it's a credible

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article with good science, and it
is going into the journal. So it's

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pretty cool to see, Yeah,
scientists talking about, hey, we need

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to look for et ruins on the
Moon. And I think you're right.

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I think because of China, we're
having a renewed interest in the moon,

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which is great because we sort of
abandon it for whatever reason. The Moon's

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cool. Man, I like the
Moon. Well all one, Hunter.

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I have so many more stories,
but I think I'd better call it quits

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because we have a wonderfully or a
wonderful interview that is a little longer than

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usual, so I will cut it
short at that. And this has been

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your open Minds news brief. Remember
to check out all these stories and so

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00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:22.160
many more at openminds dot tv or
source for UFO related news. And you

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can always follow me on Twitter at
Acentric that's ace C E N t r

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I C. And you can also
friend me on Facebook. Jason open Minds

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edited for the news. I have
Jason McClellan, your open Mind's news correspondent,

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and you have been briefed. Yeah, some people got confused because Jason

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has that open mind Facebook called Jason
open Mind. Marine has been called Marine

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open Mind and people had asked if
they were married, if they their were

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last names were open Minds, and
that is not the case. They just

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made special Spacebook facebooks for open mind, so you are aware of how that

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came about. But like Jason said, We've got a great interview with Bryce

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Dabele, so let's go ahead and
get that rawing all right as usual,

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I'm very happy to be speaking with
Bryce Zabel, one of our speakers at

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the upcoming UFO Congress. Hello.
Bryce, Hey, it's good to be

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on your program. Alejandro. Good
to hear from you, and I'm really

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looking forward to coming to the the
UFO Congress. Yeah, that's going to

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be a lot of fun. I
don't think were you able to make it

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at least be there last year.
I was not. I had a family

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commitment. So this time I get
a two for it to speak and I

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get to attend, So that's really
going to be great. Yeah, you

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have a great program there, and
everyone after last year's everybody was talking about

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what a great success it was,
so you're obviously doing something right there.

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Yeah, it's going to be a
lot of fun. And what I think

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is going to be especially fun is
that we have, you know, a

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few people from the media and entertainment, and so it's going to be unique

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to have a handle with you and
some of these other guys to talk about

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the media, some insiders like you
know, we're going to have Ben Hansen

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from Factor Fake. So it's going
to be great for people to get some

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insight and some Q and A to
talk to you guys about media. I

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look forward to that. I think
it's one of the most misunderstood elements in

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the whole UFO and paranormal puzzle because
so many different agendas exist in media coverage,

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not all of them favorable, some
of them very favorable. So I

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think it's becoming a worthy topic of
discussion in ufology for the simple reason that

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that's how people are spreading these ideas, and they're spreading truth, and they're

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spreading untruth through the media. So
it's time for us to understand it even

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better. Yeah. Yeah, So
that'll be a lot of fun, partially

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because they're speaking to the media.
I think that's something that people are going

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to need to understand when they're speaking
the panel. We're definitely going to have

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you up there, Ben Hansen,
and will have least bigel with the Huffington

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00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:15.279
Post. You are media and you
guys are doing your best to get information

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out. Of course, there's other
aspects, like you were talking about,

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there's people in the media doing a
poor job. Well that's just it.

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There are people who are using the
media to try to tell their truth or

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their story. And then there's the
media itself, which is a whole second

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angle to it, which is what
do they actually think is going on?

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What are they willing to open their
minds up to as a reasonable hypothesis for

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some of these things, And the
two do not often meet in the middle,

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to be honest with you, Yeah, but then you have people like

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you being able to create your own
vision, or Ben Hanson or at least

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Bigele They well, they get to
share their experience about how much, if

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any, if they're held back at
all, which so I'm really excited about

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that panel. You should be on
that panel. We'll all probably moderated.

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Oh that's fantastic, Yeah, because
I think you have one of the best

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takes on how it all, all
the pieces work together, and I hope

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that that will happen. But that
sounds excellent. Yeah, So that'll be

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a lot of fun. That's going
to be Sunday for people. Otherwise,

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lately, of course, you've been
real busy in the last month promoting your

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We the People petition, the one
that you and Richard Dolan had fashioned together

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and a lot of people supported,
and what inspired you to do that.

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Well. In October and November,
Steve Bassett of the Paradigm Research Group had

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a lot of success with an initial
petition when the We the People site went

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up on the White House, where
he put out a petition that received the

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sufficient number of signatures to actually force
a White House response, and actually caused

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the White House to raise the number
of signatures that were needed to get a

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RIC spons fivefold from five thousand to
twenty five thousand. But I felt that

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Steve's first petition was fundamentally flawed in
that it gave them a dodge. It

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said, we need to acknowledge an
extraterrestrial presence engaging the human race. Well,

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I'm not sure that all my all
theories lead to extraterrestrial And at the

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00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:26.759
same time, it gave the Whitehouse
a dodge for them to answer by simply

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saying, well, yeah, we
are looking for extraterrestrials with SETI, and

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you know, with the Hubble telescope, we're discovering new planets, et cetera.

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And they completely dodged the issue that
there might be actually UFO is engaging

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us here on Earth. So I
talked to my ad after disclosure. Co

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author Richard Dolan and we've become fairly
close friends over the last period of time

347
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since we've written the book, and
we talked about his petition and his success

348
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with it, but felt that possibly
the mistake was it went too far,

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and we need a baseline petition that
would not allow the White House to wiggle

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out of a basic explanation of what
seems to be going on here. So

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we created a different petition and put
it out there, and it turned out

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that we had to put it out
on December first because Bassett was going with

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his petition at that time. We
didn't want to confuse people. We thought

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we'd put a couple of them out. If you don't mind, I'd like

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to. It's only eight hundred characters. May I read the petition so that

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people know what we're talking about?
Yeah, that's great. Okay. This

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is the petition that Richard Doldan and
I crafted and put out on December first.

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It says we petitioned the Obama administration
to investigate unidentified aerial phenomena as reported

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by citizens, police, astronauts,
pilots, and the military. So that's

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the main petition thing. Here's the
eight hundred characters that came underneath it,

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and it said searching for microbes on
Mars and radio signals from space is not

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enough. We must explain unidentified aerial
phenomena or UAP right here on Earth.

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For six decades, worldwide, credible
witnesses, including Presidents Carter and Reagan,

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have consistently described objects with flight capabilities
beyond our technology. UAP are often verified

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by radar and even seen at nuclear
sites by military officers. Given the national

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security implications, the United States should
conduct an independent investigation. This inquiry must

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transparently review the key unsolved UAP reports
with access to classified documents. It must

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have the power to call witnesses and
grant immunity. The findings should be publicly

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presented. So that was what we
called the need to know petition and went

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up December first, or actually November
thirtieth, and closed down on December thirtieth.

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Yeah, I think, like you
said it, that's a much harder

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petition to answer than asking for an
extraterrestrial communication. Because astrobiology is a big

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deal right now. You hear that
in the news. There's Chetty, there's

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NASA with Kepler, there's all this
astrobiological stuff. They're looking for extraterrestrials,

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00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:17.759
and of course if they felt that
they had evidence that they had found it,

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00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:21.480
they would well, who knows what
they would do. But of course

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above board they would say, oh, yeah, you know, we would

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00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:26.000
tell people about it. So it's
easy just to say, well, there's

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all this astrobiological research going on,
there aren't any EPs, but it's harder

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00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:37.440
to address the UAPs or the UFOs
like you had talked about. Well,

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I think Richard and I simply felt
we would hold their feet to the fire

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00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:45.680
on this unexplained phenomenon and just say, look, it's not crazy UFO people

383
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:48.880
that want to know about this.
These are average citizens who had no knowledge

384
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:52.839
of UFOs. These are police officers, they're your own astronauts from NASA.

385
00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:59.839
There's they're your own Air Force and
Navy pilots, and there are commercial av

386
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:03.799
people who have seen all these things. So you know, don't make it

387
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:08.519
about little green men and play the
X files. Tune here, go tell

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00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:12.799
us what you intend to do in
the name of national security, particularly when

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00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:23.359
military officers have testified publicly about their
experiences with UFO's near nuclear sites. I

390
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:27.000
mean, if we trust these people
to keep their fingers on the nuclear trigger,

391
00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:30.440
so to speak. Why would we
not trust them if they say there

392
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:36.279
are unidentified objects hovering near our nuclear
facilities. To me, that's a national

393
00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:40.039
security issue, and I want my
government to tell me what they think about

394
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:44.519
that and look into it. Well. And that's the other great thing about

395
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:48.839
the wording on the petition that you
guys wrote is that you're asking not for

396
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.680
them to come clean, you know, assuming that they know what's going on,

397
00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:57.720
you're asking them to investigate. Well. I think, you know,

398
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:03.000
makes a lot more central telling them
to look into that because as we know

399
00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:07.480
from you know, Grant Cameron to
work and other people. You know that

400
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:11.759
the White House people in the White
House Clinton certainly tried to get information.

401
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:17.400
Doesn't seem like he was able to
even that's what he says. That's right,

402
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:22.839
and that's what Stephen Bassett's second disclosure
petition addressed the Clinton White House.

403
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:26.880
We felt that one and that was
the impetus to doing this again. I

404
00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.640
have greatest respect for Steve Bassett and
understand what he's doing, but I felt

405
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:37.559
the second petition was actually more difficult
for the average person to understand than even

406
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:41.799
the first one, and that it
dragged in a lot of you know,

407
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.279
it referred to OSTT, which is
the Office of Science and Technology Policy at

408
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.000
the White House, without ever identifying
what it was. It just had a

409
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:52.880
lot of insider baseball in it,
and we didn't think it could be become

410
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:56.359
what it needed to be. So
that's why, you know, sometimes I

411
00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:59.720
guess you have to be confident enough
to say, well, I don't like

412
00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:04.119
that, so I'll put my money
where my mouth is and try to do

413
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:07.400
something else. Interestingly enough, though, and this is just recently out there,

414
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:15.000
Cameron has received a Freedom of information
request denial of some of his requests,

415
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:20.880
and one of the emails he got
is from the person Phil Larson,

416
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:27.519
who wrote the first response to Stephen
Bassett's first petition, and that email basically

417
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:30.720
shows that Phil Larson, a low
level guy at the Office of Science and

418
00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:37.799
Technology Policy, catches the assignment of
having to respond to the first basket petition

419
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.839
and he's given less than a day
to come up with a final answer for

420
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.119
legal clearance. Well how serious is
that? I mean, come on here,

421
00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:51.759
the guy doesn't really have any real
knowledge of the UFO issue, and

422
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:54.519
he's not even given a week to
look into it. He's given less than

423
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:59.240
a day to write the answer,
so of course he writes the most mealy

424
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:07.759
mouthed, irresponsible and silly response,
and that's what we have out there.

425
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:13.400
So I just feel like the whole
thing is obviously has some issues, and

426
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.880
in fact that you know here we
are talking like the petition is still active,

427
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.240
it's not. It failed. Both
of them did. That's a second

428
00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:24.240
one and as did ours, although
there are some reasons for its failure that

429
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:28.599
we probably will discuss in the next
few minutes. Yeah, I want to

430
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.960
talk about that. But getting back
to this email that Grant Cameron got about

431
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:37.359
the Philip from Philip Larson, it
is interesting because, like you say,

432
00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:40.359
this is definitely telling. I think
the whole thing is just some emails back

433
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:44.519
and forth, and I think there's
two pieces. This is a statement that

434
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:49.920
I think is most telling. We
got tagged with drumming up a response to

435
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:53.480
please acknowledge aliens, and then he
goes on to say, please look at

436
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:57.480
this tonight because I need to submit
it tomorrow. Like you said, you

437
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:01.359
know, one day to roll this
out. So obviously they weren't taking it

438
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:07.640
too seriously, and unfortunately the other
petitions they answered that day. They group

439
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:10.559
three of them together were the same
thing. They just came up with an

440
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:15.239
answer within a day to get that
out. So it showed that this whole

441
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:19.000
wee the people thing didn't seem to
be taken too seriously. Well it's not,

442
00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:22.119
and that's sad, although it's still
a useful tool. And again that's

443
00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:28.039
something I want to talk about.
But I do think that what that proved

444
00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:31.159
is just how can you expect a
serious response and to give a guy less

445
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:35.639
than a day for a final pass. The truth of the matter is Phil

446
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:37.360
Larson should have at least been given
a week if that was the case.

447
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:42.679
And I just sat him down with
Richard Dolan's to Find Books and Leslie Kane's

448
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:45.719
Fine Book and locked him in a
room for a week and said, why

449
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:49.000
don't you read these first, right, and then after you have read those,

450
00:34:49.239 --> 00:34:53.960
write your response. But instead he
just had one day to do it.

451
00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:58.800
And by the way, his boss, who probably should have written the

452
00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:00.760
response and should have taken and it's
seriously and should have been directed by the

453
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:05.840
White House to take it seriously,
obviously pond it off onto his underling,

454
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:10.239
which is ironic because the guy that
runs the Office of Science and Technology Policy.

455
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:15.719
If you look on their website,
actually says hey, kids in school,

456
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:19.880
if you want to answer to a
question, send an email to us

457
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:22.840
and we'll have the boss write you
an answer. Okay, So the boss

458
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:24.599
has the time to write an answer
to school kids, which I think is

459
00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:30.400
fine. But to say that the
boss doesn't have time to look into something

460
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:34.360
that affects national security and all of
humanity and could be the biggest story never

461
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:37.360
told, that seems silly. It's
just silly. Yeah, there's no other

462
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:42.360
way to look at it. You
can make excuses for them, and we

463
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:47.159
know there's budget issues, etc.
But it's just silly to take on a

464
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:52.760
topic of this magnitude in the way
that they did. Yeah. Although another

465
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:57.280
problem is and again, like you, I think it's great that Bascet jumped

466
00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:00.320
on this and got it rolling.
He got a lot of attention, and

467
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:07.360
that's great what he did. But
a little bit of a missed opportunity here

468
00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:12.679
and the wording of his because they
never had to address UFOs. Unfortunately it

469
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.199
was all aliens. So if they
would have had to have addressed UFOs,

470
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:20.559
I would think that it would be
a harder one to address and then hopefully

471
00:36:20.599 --> 00:36:23.440
they would have had to have done
some research like looking at or Richard Dorton.

472
00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:28.639
I completely agree with you, and
again I listen as I've said,

473
00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:30.440
and I'll say it again. I
have the greatest respect for Stephen Bassett.

474
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:37.119
I just didn't think he wrote the
world's best petitions given the political climate.

475
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:42.800
And you know, and that's trust
me. When Dolan and I did our

476
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:47.440
petition, we fussed over every letter. I mean we used every single letter

477
00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:51.800
in every word, and we went
through draft after draft to try to make

478
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:58.639
it the single clearest call to action
that you can possibly have without dragging in

479
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:05.480
all the the stuff that is used
to marginalize ufology. And I think we

480
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:07.679
did a really good job with it. But as I'm sure we're going to

481
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:14.239
get into more, the White House
site was probably inadvertently, probably through in

482
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:20.400
competence, plagued with problems, and
both petitions fell short. I think there's

483
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:23.079
a couple numerous reasons for that.
One of them was I never wanted to

484
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:27.280
go on December first. I felt
these petitions should have been put out on

485
00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:30.719
January first, but Steve felt like
forcing the issues, so we felt like

486
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.159
we had to go. They were
miss timed during the holiday, in my

487
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.320
opinion, But worse than that.
Worse than that was the fact that the

488
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:40.880
site didn't work. And for the
entire thirty days that our petition was up

489
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:45.920
there, we had dozens of people
writing us every day saying I can't sign

490
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:50.480
your petition, I can't get onto
the site, and more often than not,

491
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:52.960
when people came onto the site,
they got a site under maintenance screen.

492
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:57.400
When they actually got in and tried
to sign on, they kept getting

493
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:01.599
thrown out. It was extremely confusing. The site did not work and they

494
00:38:01.639 --> 00:38:08.679
never fixed it, so I think
that's really telling about their commitment. And

495
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:15.039
then at the end of creating a
site that doesn't work and people can't use

496
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.800
to sign in on, they simply
said, well, these petitions fell short.

497
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:21.639
They've been archived. And I went
to the archive today just before our

498
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:23.960
phone call because I wanted to refresh
my memory on our you know, the

499
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:28.280
exact wording of our petition. And
guess what, even when I press archive,

500
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.360
I can't read the petition. It
just says this petition has been archived.

501
00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:34.599
Well, they don't want people to
read the old petitions? What's up

502
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:37.639
with that? In order to read
the petition to you that I just read.

503
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.400
I had to go to my own
files and read it because I can't

504
00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:45.159
get it on the White House side
anymore. The whole thing is just sad.

505
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:49.920
Yeah, you know their response was
silly and the execution was sad.

506
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:52.960
That's how I look at it.
Yeah, and just for the listeners,

507
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:57.519
So you know, I'll put this
up at ufodailynews dot com. The I'll

508
00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:02.280
link to this Philip Larson email Grant
Cameron received, so anybody can read it,

509
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:06.039
and I'll put some more links out
there, And of course I've sent

510
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:08.440
it to you Bryce and Grant is. Yes. Another great thing about Grant

511
00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:14.320
Cameron is he sends out his information
when he does these boyas to everybody,

512
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:17.400
and he doesn't hoard the information at
all. So I think you'd be more

513
00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:22.920
than happy if you posted that as
well. So he's a terrific researcher and

514
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.480
we're very lucky to have his hard
work all these years. Yeah, but

515
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:30.199
I'm obviously a big fan of my
buddy Grant Cameron. He's just a great

516
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:34.199
guy. He does so much great
work. Well, listen, and then

517
00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:37.280
somebody has to be doing that.
It's not the easy, glamorous stuff.

518
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.880
San Friedman's a friend of mine as
well, and Stanton would not have achieved

519
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:45.320
what he's achieved if he didn't have
the ability to. You know, people

520
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:49.760
think everyone in yourfology is trying to
hog the limelight and all that. That's

521
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:52.960
all nonsense. It's in my view, and none of it makes any sense

522
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:57.280
because people really don't know how hard
these things are. When San Friedman,

523
00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:02.880
for example, this spend far more
time sitting going through documents and sitting in

524
00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:07.559
archives than he ever has attending UFO
conferences, right, I mean, the

525
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:14.400
hard work of this research is unbelievable
because most academics get to go to libraries

526
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:19.519
where the only all they have to
do is look through existing material for their

527
00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:23.639
academic research. You follow just have
to fight to even see the research,

528
00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:29.280
and most of the time they can't. I think this touches on another important

529
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:35.920
fact and another benefit to the petition
you guys put together is the team work.

530
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:39.639
And sometimes that doesn't happen. And
I think that's so important that I

531
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:43.719
know, like you said, you
know, I know how you and rich

532
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:49.000
are you guys you know bust over
the wording and worked on every word of

533
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:53.280
your petition and also reach out to
other people to get opinions. I think

534
00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:58.840
that's another important aspect, is the
teamwork, and I think that that has

535
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:01.280
to happen more. There are some
people like Stanton, like you mentioned,

536
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:07.480
he's always willing to work with people. Yes, and he's another guy who

537
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:12.119
I think is great, And I
think that teamwork part has to happen.

538
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:15.360
And you've got sponsorship from a lot
of people too. We did, and

539
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:17.159
you know, one of the first
things we did. Look, I come

540
00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:22.159
from Hollywood, where you know,
in Hollywood, you write a first script

541
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:25.960
and it's not done. Then you
get notes from people and you incorporate their

542
00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:30.960
notes and you do revisions and so
forth. So I'm quite used to collaborating

543
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:34.840
with people, hearing their good ideas
and trying to get them into the project.

544
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:37.159
So I've approached the petition the same
way. After rich and I had

545
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:43.199
a first draft of it, we
shared it with you and probably about a

546
00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:45.280
half a dozen other people and said, look, help us make it better.

547
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:50.480
What what's missing for you here,
what doesn't ring quite true? What

548
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:53.159
would you like to see Differently,
We've got good feedback from everybody. We

549
00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:59.639
put it all together, and then
we tried to create something that would have

550
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:05.920
a odd spectrum appeal, because,
as you point out, if if we

551
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:10.239
don't hang together, we all hang
separately. On this one one question I

552
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:15.719
have, and in hindsight, I
should have said something. At the time

553
00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:19.079
that you showed me the draft.
I was as busy and I thought it

554
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:22.960
was worded great. I loved it. But it's one of these things that

555
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:25.079
comes up, and I would love
to hear your thoughts. Sure, maybe

556
00:42:25.079 --> 00:42:30.360
what your response would have been had
I suggested this. I always think it

557
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:36.559
is important to include the word UFO. I don't know that it's hurt here,

558
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:38.559
but if I would have said,
you know, I think you should

559
00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:42.719
at least throw the term in there, just to make sure that people are

560
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:46.760
clear what you're talking about. Would
you probable? Sure? Sure we would

561
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:50.519
have I'll tell you though there was
a debate on that. Oh, I'm

562
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:55.400
sure because one of the reasons we
didn't is we and we used UAP was

563
00:42:55.480 --> 00:43:01.840
to try to force the responder do
not fall upon the old usual canards of

564
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:07.639
UFOs, and for the very reason
uap look like they're UFOs, there's no

565
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:13.119
question, but they're also UAPs,
and we were just very cognizant of the

566
00:43:13.159 --> 00:43:17.000
response that Bassett first got, which
was to try to group things together and

567
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:22.679
try to not respond to them.
So the argument that prevailed, and by

568
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:24.719
the way, it could have gone
the other way, and had U weighed

569
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:28.679
in, you might have pushed it
the other direction. But the argument that

570
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:34.159
prevailed was don't give them that ability, and that those of us in uphology

571
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:37.840
certainly know what a what UAP is
and and but you know, I think

572
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:40.280
it's a it's a valid point,
and I think if we were ever to

573
00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:45.119
resubmit this petition, we would probably
make that change. I wrote an opinion

574
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:47.519
piece actually, just like a week
ago or two. I don't know if

575
00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:51.760
you got to see it, but
I'd love to have you look at it

576
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:55.960
at some point, and ifinitely think
it's between Christmas, you know, that's

577
00:43:55.960 --> 00:44:00.559
what you just illustrate the problem.
I read almost everything you ever read or

578
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:05.519
set right, but during Christmas time
it's pretty hard to read things, and

579
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.079
so at the same time, it
was pretty hard to sign things. So

580
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:13.760
we've been all damned by the holidays. But hopefully now that we're in twenty

581
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:16.920
twelve and looking forward to the new
year, we can all get back to

582
00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:22.079
work. Yeah, exactly. And
actually I've been more prolific in the last

583
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:27.880
few weeks because at work, you
know, everybody's out on vacation. So

584
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:30.719
yes, it's been really slow.
So I've been able to do a lot

585
00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:32.679
of writing. But I wrote,
yeah, kind of my perspective on the

586
00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:38.199
UFO versus UAP, and I see
that the purpose of the UAP and the

587
00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:45.280
argument there. But they could respond
to your request and throw in UFO,

588
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:50.280
and that would be a legitimate thing
for them to do, of course,

589
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:52.519
and that would have been fine.
It's so hard to get rid of that

590
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:57.679
baggage, and I think just changing
the term isn't gonna Yeah, Unfortunately it's

591
00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:00.480
not. It's not, and it's
a good point in fact, now you

592
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:02.320
mention it. I did read that
article of yours and I thought it was

593
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:08.079
I did, and I thought it
was well well taken. And uh again,

594
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:12.920
you know anytime you well, let
me put it this way, as

595
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:16.920
I said, when you're used to
collaborating you The way I've put it this

596
00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:20.840
way is people say, well,
when when is the movie done? The

597
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:22.519
movie is done when it's in the
theaters, and even then it's not done

598
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:25.360
because the director's going to come in
and do his own cut later or something.

599
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:30.519
Right, so nothing's ever really done
in the business I'm in, and

600
00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:34.360
so I look at it the same
way. This happens to be the first

601
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:37.400
draft that went up, and the
next one, if there is another one,

602
00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:39.760
will be the director's cut. If
you will, you know that we

603
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:45.360
continue to evolve the language so that
it gets to be as perfect as we

604
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:50.320
can possibly make it and leaves as
little wiggle room as possible. Right,

605
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:53.039
And it's, you know, the
teamwork thing. It is wonderful these days

606
00:45:53.079 --> 00:45:58.719
to have this sort of team and
to have this collaboration because I certainly take

607
00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:01.119
onus in that I didn't mention in
the UFO thing before, and I feel

608
00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:04.920
like I should have. But like
you said, there's a part too that

609
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:07.639
could come out. And I know
who you talk to because me and Leslie

610
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:12.079
Kane talk about this all the time. I know you know some of the

611
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:16.199
other researchers out there. It's a
discussion that happens. But it's wonderful that

612
00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:21.800
we have at least this group of
people we can call upon and have these

613
00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:30.039
civil debates about things and be comfortable
with what the results are because we know

614
00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:32.760
that people like you and Richard,
Leslie and some of the other least Peagle,

615
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:37.840
who I work with and talk with
a lot. We all are working

616
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:43.599
towards the same thing, and all
of us have our hearts in the right

617
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:47.400
in a similar place, and so
it's wonderful to have these people you can

618
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:51.320
trust and call upon. What's interesting
also about Leslie Kay, she was a

619
00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:54.400
strong voice for UAP, which is
odd because they're books as UFOs and the

620
00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:59.519
title but there are just just there. You know, this is an issue

621
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:05.480
I think in retrospect I probably lean
more to the UFO now that I give

622
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.639
it more thought, for the simple
reason that when you work again in the

623
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:14.800
entertainment business, you're not about changing
behavior as much as you're trying to give

624
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:19.199
people something that they can understand and
enjoy and participate in. So therefore,

625
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:23.119
having terms that are obscure don't help
you. So, for example, when

626
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:28.880
you title a movie, it doesn't
usually do you any good to title it

627
00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:31.639
obscurely. The better thing to do
is to title it as exactly as it

628
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:37.239
is, or look at to get
search engine optimization. On a web post,

629
00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:40.559
it's better to put the web to
say exactly what you want to say

630
00:47:40.599 --> 00:47:46.400
in the web post, rather than
a bunch of obscure comments in I'm talking

631
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:51.039
about the headline. If you want
the search engines do it, so I

632
00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:52.920
think probably that would be a change
that would be made in the future.

633
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:57.719
Yeah, it's funny because I know
if I put UFO in a headline and

634
00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:00.920
I try to always fit it in
if there's anything to do with UFOs,

635
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:05.920
it's going to get a lot more
hits. Yes, I'm sure that was

636
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:08.280
a was a mistake, although I
want to just point out it makes no

637
00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:13.119
difference in this case. I think
I don't think it was an effect.

638
00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:16.840
Anybody in the world couldn't have gotten
twenty five thousand with the site that doesn't

639
00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:22.440
work. I maintained both of these
petitions would have crossed the twenty five thousand

640
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:25.079
thresholder at least had the ability to
do it if a they had not gone

641
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:30.840
on on December first, and b
if they had had a site that people

642
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:36.800
could effortlessly register at and sign But
even with those two things going on,

643
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:40.480
the reason I'm confident that it's possible
to get twenty five thousand signatures is that

644
00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:45.599
there's you know, tens and tens
of millions of people worldwide to have computers

645
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:52.559
and Internet access who also believed that
the UFO phenomenon is a real one and

646
00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:55.920
needs to be investigated. So I
think the base to sign it was there.

647
00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:01.400
But there were two other institutional reasons
why people don't sign these things,

648
00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:06.039
and I think it's important for us
to recognize that for the future. The

649
00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:12.719
first argument is that people that don't
trust the government already are very leery about

650
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:16.119
the opportunity to register their name and
email with the government. So there's a

651
00:49:16.119 --> 00:49:20.119
lot of people that just say,
I'm taking a pass. I don't care

652
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:24.800
if I believe in this petition.
I'm not giving the government my my name

653
00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:30.239
and I'm not tying my name and
email to a UFO petition. So there's

654
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:35.599
that. And number two is people
that don't think that a UFO petition,

655
00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:39.400
even if successful, will cause anyone
to create an investigation. But if I

656
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:44.559
could just take those on for second, I think they're both relevant feelings.

657
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:47.880
But let's take the last one first. That people don't think it will cause

658
00:49:47.920 --> 00:49:52.719
the government to do an investigation,
so why bother That's not the issue.

659
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:55.760
I never thought that we would file
a petition, get twenty five thousand signatures

660
00:49:55.760 --> 00:49:59.800
and the US government say, well, thank you for that. Now we're

661
00:49:59.800 --> 00:50:04.159
in investigating. No, that's never
going to happen. But what we're trying

662
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:07.119
to do is move the ball down
the field, if you will, so

663
00:50:07.280 --> 00:50:12.559
that the mere act of this very
well written petition, getting twenty five thousand

664
00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:17.760
signatures and requiring a response forces the
issue into the public domain a little bit

665
00:50:17.800 --> 00:50:23.440
further, and it causes our own
government to say, well, people are

666
00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:27.239
starting to wake up to this reality, and we're you know, at some

667
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:30.760
point we need to be given some
thought to this. It's just a marker

668
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:35.599
on the road to success as opposed
to the end result. And then as

669
00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:37.519
for people who don't trust the government, I can't really say much about that

670
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:44.559
other than if you believe in UFOs
and you think, I don't think you

671
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:49.840
have to worry that the government is
going to hunt you down because you signed

672
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:53.320
a petition about UFOs. They're probably
more worried about a lot of other things

673
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:59.000
like that, so I don't worry
to And besides which, let's face it,

674
00:50:59.079 --> 00:51:04.679
if the governm or anybody wants to
target you in today's technology area,

675
00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:08.519
the fact that you signed or don't
sign a petition about UFOs is irrelevant.

676
00:51:08.559 --> 00:51:12.559
If you're on Facebook or you have
an email address, right else, we

677
00:51:12.679 --> 00:51:17.760
know, we know what the investigatory
capabilities of various institutions are, so I

678
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:22.559
sort of felt like that's not as
big a deal. I know it is

679
00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:25.599
to some people and they didn't they
didn't have to sign but for most people,

680
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:30.360
it's not the biggest deal, right, Yeah, I agree, And

681
00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:32.719
that's going to be my next question
on some of the factors, because I

682
00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:37.639
certainly, you know, saw responses
on your Facebook and other places, and

683
00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:40.079
I received them whenever I would send
out my tweets and facebooks. Is that

684
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:45.039
yeah, that they wouldn't do anything
even if you got your signatures, or

685
00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:49.480
you know, they're just going to
lie to us. But I think it

686
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:54.559
was really exciting. I was not
sure if the signatures would come just because

687
00:51:55.079 --> 00:52:00.559
of a couple of things. But
I think it's is important to try to

688
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:08.719
seek a response because it would be
interesting too. A petition worded more like

689
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:14.519
yours that's around thea UFOTH or the
UPS. They may even open up the

690
00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:17.280
door a little. I think we
sometimes we're too skeptical and that there are

691
00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:20.920
scientists who aren't interested in this,
and they may say, I mean,

692
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.280
it's an unknown but we don't have
the resources to research it or something.

693
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:29.639
All andre the very brevity of these
petitions is the success of them. Like,

694
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:31.880
for example, let's just take one
sentence out of this that said,

695
00:52:32.199 --> 00:52:37.000
UAP are often or that could be
UFOs up are often verified by radar and

696
00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:42.559
even seeing at nuclear sites by military
officers. That's one sentence sentence, right,

697
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:45.960
Okay, I'm the guy at the
Office of Science and Technology Policy.

698
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:52.519
It is not relevant to cite setting
to that objection, right, It is

699
00:52:52.559 --> 00:53:00.440
not relevant to talk about how we've
discovered planets fourteen light years in a way

700
00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:05.159
that's not relevant. You can't respond
to that sentence that way. So if

701
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:07.800
you're going to have to respond,
you're going to have to respond to the

702
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:13.960
fact that UFOs are often verified by
radar and seen at nuclear sites by witnesses

703
00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:17.320
who are military officers with their fingers
on nuclear triggers. Okay, what would

704
00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:21.199
they say to that. I'd like
to hear our government talk about it.

705
00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:25.519
And even if they even if they
say, I don't know what they would

706
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:30.159
say. That's why I was most
interested in saying it, not that not

707
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:34.159
that I necessarily thought that, you
know, twenty billion dollars was going to

708
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:37.679
be devoted to an investigation. I
just thought it would be interesting to see

709
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:39.840
what the guys who currently exist in
power have to say on that topic.

710
00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:46.000
Yeah, exactly, it just would
have been more food. Look, it's

711
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:53.159
information we are We are trying to
gather information that leads to solutions and understanding,

712
00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:57.800
and you it's an incremental thing,
you know. So for people who

713
00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:00.559
say it won't cause them to investigate, well no, not by itself,

714
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:07.320
it won't. And in fact,
maybe the biggest usefulness of the petition isn't

715
00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:10.679
to the government, but it's to
our understanding of what it is that we're

716
00:54:10.679 --> 00:54:16.599
trying to say and collaborating to figure
that out and trying to understand where the

717
00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:22.639
government comes from. Because to simply
dismiss the government or anybody in charge of

718
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:28.800
this management of this secret which is
being bad people who are out to you

719
00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:31.119
know, conn the world, and
you know, I suppose there is some

720
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:35.760
evidence for that, and I'm not
going to get into that. But on

721
00:54:35.800 --> 00:54:38.840
the other hand, I personally look
around here and see more ignorance than I

722
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:45.679
see malfeasance on at least the surface
level of our government. So the people

723
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:47.519
who are ignorant, I'd like to
see how, you know, Phil Larson

724
00:54:47.599 --> 00:54:53.639
at the Office of Science and Technology
Policy probably has not ever considered that UFOs

725
00:54:54.039 --> 00:54:59.239
that are verified by radar have been
seen at nuclear sites by military officers.

726
00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:02.360
He's never given five seconds of thought
to that. Well, guess what he

727
00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:07.679
should and if he had to and
had to write a response, anything he

728
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:12.559
said would be pretty damn interesting.
And for example, this is the thing

729
00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:17.280
that I just I mourn about the
law, the technical obstacles, and the

730
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:22.000
timing of the petition so that it
did not require a response from the White

731
00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:28.000
House. Is that? Imagine if
we'd succeeded and today, in twenty twelve,

732
00:55:28.719 --> 00:55:31.760
our petition had succeeded, in Bassett's
petition had succeeded, and the Office

733
00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:37.559
of Science and Technology Policy was busy
crafting a response, and we're about to

734
00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:43.280
have primaries in Iowa and New Hampshire, et cetera. This would be in

735
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:45.639
the news. And if I was
a journalist, you know, the most

736
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:49.199
journalists but I am a journalist,
by the way, But if I were

737
00:55:49.239 --> 00:55:54.440
a journalist covering this campaign, most
of them are arrogant and don't believe about

738
00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:59.639
anything about UFOs. But they also
most journalists are liberal and don't like Republicans,

739
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:02.679
So what would they do. They'd
want to embarrass somebody by asking them

740
00:56:02.679 --> 00:56:08.079
about UFOs. So yeah, so, in fact, the whole UFO topic

741
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:15.920
could have been injected into the presidential
campaign and would have at least that would

742
00:56:15.960 --> 00:56:19.719
have been interesting in itself. You
know, what, what does Mitt Romney

743
00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:24.320
think about UFOs? Yep? I
mean I really don't know. And for

744
00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:29.239
him not to be asked, He's
asked about everything else. What's new?

745
00:56:29.320 --> 00:56:34.760
Gingrich think? Duke Gngrish is unafraid
to say unpopular things, as we all

746
00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:37.800
know. I mean, he and
one of the debates started talking and they

747
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:40.159
said, what are the two things
you fear the most international security? And

748
00:56:40.199 --> 00:56:46.079
he said a Iran with a nuclear
weapon and be an electromagnetic pulse detonated over

749
00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:52.280
the United States. How many people
are talking about EMPs. Okay, that's

750
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:53.840
very brave of him. I mean, I don't care what you think about

751
00:56:53.880 --> 00:56:59.199
his politics or whatever, and but
that's very brave to talk that way and

752
00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:04.159
still be a credible candidate. So
you ask a freethinker like this guy what

753
00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:07.039
he thinks about UFOs. He's liable
to say something really interesting. But the

754
00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:12.239
problem is he will never be asked
right, And I think that's exactly what's

755
00:57:12.280 --> 00:57:16.679
so why the whole point is that
asking is important because we don't know.

756
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:20.679
We assume, oh, these guys
aren't going to pay us any attention.

757
00:57:20.719 --> 00:57:23.719
They're the enemy the mainstream science that, but we don't know what they're going

758
00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:28.320
to say. And what's great about
reading the first sentence that you have here

759
00:57:28.360 --> 00:57:34.400
again, searching for microbes on Mars
and radio signals from space is not enough?

760
00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:37.760
Is that? Mainstream scientists, you
know, just recently, and I

761
00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:45.000
wrote this on Huffington Post practically said
the exact same thing just recently, saying

762
00:57:45.320 --> 00:57:51.360
this isn't enough. We need to
look at photographs of the Moon to see

763
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:57.159
if extraterrestrials have left any ruins there
or indications that they visited. We're not

764
00:57:57.400 --> 00:58:00.480
so far apart, No, we're
not. And by the way, that

765
00:58:00.639 --> 00:58:04.920
sentence, thank you for quoting that
sentence. I remember sitting up one night

766
00:58:04.920 --> 00:58:07.719
about three in the morning, you
know, working on this thing and saying,

767
00:58:08.440 --> 00:58:14.880
I wanted it to strike an economical
pre emptive strike, if you will,

768
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:20.119
on the banal approach that was used
in the response to the first petition,

769
00:58:20.679 --> 00:58:24.760
and I needed to swat aside the
easy answer, so by telling them,

770
00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:30.039
don't tell us about microbes on Mars, don't tell us about radio signals.

771
00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:32.760
We're not interested in you telling us
about that. We know about that.

772
00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:37.800
What we want you to respond to
is this. And I think that's

773
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:40.840
again, the petition process allows you
to narrow it. Now, whether the

774
00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:45.800
petition process is you know, the
White House made obviously, as you point

775
00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:49.920
out, isn't, isn't giving it
a lot of credibility. It's more like

776
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:53.239
a public relations ploy right now than
a true anything else. But on the

777
00:58:53.239 --> 00:58:58.559
other hand, that doesn't. That's
okay, that's okay. I accept that,

778
00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:02.679
and I accept that they probably wish
they had not put this into place

779
00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:07.519
because it's probably a big headache.
And I accept that I am part of

780
00:59:07.559 --> 00:59:10.559
their headache. Right, Well,
let's let the games begin, That's what

781
00:59:10.599 --> 00:59:15.320
I say. Well, and it
is a bit disingenuous, unfortunately, to

782
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:20.920
put this site up. I know
this wasn't. I read the history behind

783
00:59:21.480 --> 00:59:23.599
putting up the weed of people,
and it was one person's idea that everybody

784
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:28.119
thought was a bad idea. He
wanted to do it prior to I think

785
00:59:28.159 --> 00:59:34.440
Obama even coming into office. And
then eventually they finally just kind of humored

786
00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:37.239
him and let him put it up, and now they're kind of regretting it,

787
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:42.280
it seems, but it is disingenuous. But then there was another disingenuous

788
00:59:42.360 --> 00:59:47.679
kind of effort that the Obama White
House put forward. And I'm not afraid

789
00:59:47.679 --> 00:59:52.639
to admit and I'm gonna do this
right now on the show. I don't

790
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:55.239
know if I should, but I'm
going to say I'm an Obama fan so

791
00:59:55.760 --> 01:00:02.159
when I criticize them, you know
when and Bassett jumped on this too.

792
01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:06.599
They put forth like this little book, signed the signature book, and tell

793
01:00:06.679 --> 01:00:10.360
us what's important to you, and
the president, the new incoming president will

794
01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:16.199
address these things. And a lot
of the top topics were similar to here.

795
01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:21.239
Marijuana was a big one, you
know, some student loans. There's

796
01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:24.159
also a big push. Actually one
of the big ones was for mass transit

797
01:00:24.280 --> 01:00:31.199
across the country, which makes sense
to save on power and echological reasons.

798
01:00:31.639 --> 01:00:37.360
But UFOs got up there and they
kind of cherry picked, you know,

799
01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:42.639
and just address the ones they wanted
to. So it's unfortunate and it is

800
01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:46.000
disingenuous and just looks like more political
rhetoric to put this up and then not

801
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:49.840
pay much attention to it. Well, I think part of the problem is,

802
01:00:50.239 --> 01:00:52.960
Look, I'm an Obama fan too. I know that's you know,

803
01:00:53.079 --> 01:00:59.440
people are domaining for your neck out
there with me. I tend to think

804
01:00:59.480 --> 01:01:06.679
that the President Obama knows he doesn't
believe in UFOs and he doesn't think it's

805
01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:12.559
worth his time to think about him
my take on it. And I think

806
01:01:12.559 --> 01:01:15.719
he feels like I've got a lot
of other problems and there's nothing I can

807
01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:20.239
do about this. And I don't
think he thinks it's real. But I

808
01:01:20.239 --> 01:01:23.199
would love to have raised his you
know, his knowledge of that. And

809
01:01:23.280 --> 01:01:28.320
I think a successful a couple of
successful petitions being covered in the news,

810
01:01:28.719 --> 01:01:31.559
that would begin to start. Yeah, and I think he does respect Clinton.

811
01:01:31.639 --> 01:01:36.960
I mean there are similarities. Of
course, he's got Hillary as is

812
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:39.880
number one when it comes to which
is a big deal of the foreign affairs

813
01:01:40.559 --> 01:01:45.719
and so yeah, like you,
you know, it'd be great to pose

814
01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:50.800
the question. One of the issues
that also I think kind of hurt this

815
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:55.480
round of petitions is, as you
know, every story has I kind of

816
01:01:55.480 --> 01:02:00.920
think of it as an energy and
media story. You get some momentum and

817
01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:05.280
it doesn't last very long. It's
a short window it may spike and get

818
01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:08.360
really big, but once a couple
few days have passed, it's over.

819
01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:15.800
That's why Rich and I argue passionately
with Steve Bassett. We said, please

820
01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:22.239
don't go December first, because for
that very reason, we just felt like

821
01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:25.360
there are ebbs and flows and it
was too soon during the wrong time of

822
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:31.280
year. But he was adamant.
We even reached out by the way to

823
01:02:31.320 --> 01:02:36.079
Steve Bassett and said, we know
you want to do another petition. We're

824
01:02:36.079 --> 01:02:39.199
not wild about the one you're circulating. Would you work with us to create

825
01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:43.199
a new one, And he didn't
want to do that either, So you

826
01:02:43.239 --> 01:02:46.519
know, listen, that's totally his
choice, and he's an activist of great

827
01:02:46.559 --> 01:02:50.960
Merit, so he has his own
image of how it needs to go.

828
01:02:51.400 --> 01:02:54.920
But it would have been nice if
a we would have postponed till January first,

829
01:02:54.960 --> 01:03:00.599
twenty twelve, b the White House
site would have worked, and see

830
01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:07.199
the UFO community would have come together
with one single petition. That made sense

831
01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:09.519
because you know now what's happened,
and it's taken kind of the wind out

832
01:03:09.519 --> 01:03:15.679
of my sales. I'm seeing people
that really have no chance to get these

833
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:19.920
signatures just writing petitions because it's fun, right, and you know they're going

834
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:23.639
to get a couple hundred of their
friends signing them, and they're not written

835
01:03:23.679 --> 01:03:28.320
well, you know, and that's
the problem. Richard Dolan is an excellent

836
01:03:28.360 --> 01:03:30.800
writer, and I like to think
I'm an okay writer because I've at least

837
01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:35.679
made a living doing it all these
years. And we just felt like,

838
01:03:35.840 --> 01:03:38.519
look, we got to take this
level up. This has to be so

839
01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:44.800
artfully crafted that the people who want
to dismiss it can't dismiss it as easily.

840
01:03:45.519 --> 01:03:49.519
And I still think that that's still
how I believe. Yeah, I

841
01:03:49.559 --> 01:03:52.880
agree with you one hundred percent.
I think that teamwork aspect is so incredibly

842
01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:58.119
important, and I hope I know
some people kind of felt it was and

843
01:03:58.320 --> 01:04:00.920
us are as them, and I
never framed it that way. I framed

844
01:04:00.920 --> 01:04:02.960
it like you. I told people, Hey, you know, sign both.

845
01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:06.559
If you love what Bassett's doing,
you know, does you can sign

846
01:04:06.599 --> 01:04:11.760
both? Go well, I totally
agree with you. I never, you

847
01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:16.239
know, my arguments were with Steve
Bassett were behind the scenes and among colleagues,

848
01:04:16.599 --> 01:04:20.920
you know, but we never a
publicly disparaged him, nor did he

849
01:04:21.079 --> 01:04:26.639
us. We I always felt like
a rising tide raises all both, so

850
01:04:26.679 --> 01:04:30.719
I thought I actually, once Steve
made it clear he was going to go

851
01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:32.280
ahead with his and he was going
on the date that he was going,

852
01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:35.920
I talked to Rich and Rich really
had you know, he wanted to go

853
01:04:36.119 --> 01:04:39.840
later, and I did too,
but I just said, let's let's go

854
01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:45.960
now because maybe the controversy or the
competition, if you will angle between two

855
01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:48.039
petitions, we'll get more people talking
about it. So that's kind of how

856
01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:53.239
we went. But again it turned
out in retrospect to be the wrong time

857
01:04:53.280 --> 01:04:58.679
with the wrong technical website. So
we'll it's down time for planning B or

858
01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:02.400
C now, right, yeah,
yeah, so which might be I mean,

859
01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:06.440
like you said, because you are
media savvy, of course you've got

860
01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:11.880
lots of stuff going on during the
holidays, but you do always have that,

861
01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:15.280
you know, as businesses call it, that first quarter kind of lull

862
01:05:15.880 --> 01:05:20.119
where things slow down I mean all
over the place, even with sales and

863
01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:25.960
everything. It's the worst quarter for
for retail. Usually things slow down in

864
01:05:26.039 --> 01:05:30.400
January and February, so there's definitely
some room for we'll see what becomes big

865
01:05:30.400 --> 01:05:35.280
stories, but there's some room for
something like that. So hopefully from my

866
01:05:35.320 --> 01:05:41.599
own my own personal thing, though, Alejandro is I'm a little bit I'm

867
01:05:41.639 --> 01:05:45.320
a little worn out by the petition. In other words, I gave it

868
01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:47.880
my all. I mean, right, oh yeah, yeah. We have

869
01:05:47.960 --> 01:05:54.719
considerable resources, and I did everything
I could to allow it to become viral,

870
01:05:54.760 --> 01:05:58.280
and it didn't. So I don't
know that I have the stomach to

871
01:05:58.360 --> 01:06:01.360
immediately go with that over again.
I know that Steve Bassett's going to go

872
01:06:01.400 --> 01:06:06.360
with his again exactly as he had
it worded before, and again I think

873
01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:15.280
that's a mistake. I think if
it would be better to join forces and

874
01:06:15.079 --> 01:06:20.880
definitely confirmed that the White House site
works again and can go later and right

875
01:06:20.920 --> 01:06:26.559
now, I'm retraining my firepower,
if you will. The other in other

876
01:06:26.599 --> 01:06:31.559
areas, your Twitter campaign was like
nothing I've ever seen before. You're tweeting

877
01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:35.679
your your are out there. Well, you know, I just I just

878
01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:39.599
said, look, we well,
first of all, Richard Dolan had set

879
01:06:39.679 --> 01:06:45.159
up our infrastructure to promote our book
a d after disclosure, which there's news

880
01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:48.559
on and we'll get to in a
second. That infrastructure of the website and

881
01:06:48.639 --> 01:06:55.719
the Facebook page and the Twitter account, we're all in existence with a lot

882
01:06:55.760 --> 01:07:00.159
of support and traffic. So the
day that we filed it, we in

883
01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:04.440
essence rented out the ad disclosure real
estate if you will, to the petition,

884
01:07:04.920 --> 01:07:11.599
and we changed everything from promoting the
book to promoting the petition on all

885
01:07:11.639 --> 01:07:15.800
three sites. Immediately. They've kind
of reverted back now that the site,

886
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:23.159
now that the petition is not live. But we said that we thought that

887
01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:26.599
was a real benefit that we had
that we already had. We weren't trying

888
01:07:26.599 --> 01:07:28.920
to build something from the ground up. We already had a lot. Like

889
01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:32.639
we know, we have thirty five
hundred or whatever likes on our Facebook page.

890
01:07:32.719 --> 01:07:36.360
So that's nice that if those people
would have each gone out and got

891
01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:42.960
five people, we'd have a different
conversation right now. It's just hard to

892
01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:47.480
get people to do something, and
it's double hard or quadruple hard when they're

893
01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:53.920
trying to do something that technically is
incredibly challenging, which is what the White

894
01:07:53.960 --> 01:07:58.000
House website turned out to be.
Yeah, speaking of your site, getting

895
01:07:58.039 --> 01:08:01.119
out a light subject and I want
to go over these because they are so

896
01:08:01.239 --> 01:08:08.599
funny and they're so smart that I
think they they deserve some attention before they

897
01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:15.199
get lost and Okay, and obscurity
here, but the kind of cartoons that

898
01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:19.680
you guys put together. They were
so funny. We I hope people can

899
01:08:19.760 --> 01:08:25.319
visit the site and see them for
themselves. You can get to the site

900
01:08:25.359 --> 01:08:30.600
two ways. It's of course it's
afterdisclosure dot com all run together, but

901
01:08:30.640 --> 01:08:33.319
it's also Disclosure petition dot com.
Either one, I'll get you to the

902
01:08:33.359 --> 01:08:39.560
site. And what we did is
this is this really is I guess this

903
01:08:39.640 --> 01:08:44.520
goes more to my you know,
commercial entertainment, Hollywood slash thoughts. But

904
01:08:44.560 --> 01:08:49.439
I just thought, look, when
people do you a bad turn, you

905
01:08:49.479 --> 01:08:54.680
don't necessarily attack them. Sometimes you
make fun of them. So we thought,

906
01:08:54.920 --> 01:08:58.039
let's try to turn humor into this
thing. And so we took a

907
01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:04.039
lot of news photos of the from
the campaign and put cartoon balloons with them

908
01:09:04.880 --> 01:09:11.479
to show what the campaign would look
like if people actually passed this petition.

909
01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:15.039
And it became something that was happening
in the in the daily news and was

910
01:09:15.079 --> 01:09:21.319
in the campaign. So we the
I guess. So we have, for

911
01:09:21.359 --> 01:09:25.760
example, uh, you know,
Bill Clinton making a speech in one of

912
01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:30.640
them. We have a Barack Obama
talking to the guy from Science and Technology

913
01:09:30.680 --> 01:09:35.079
Policy. We have New Gingrich talking
about aliens, and it's a very it's

914
01:09:35.079 --> 01:09:38.600
A. It's a it's a new
thing. I don't think I've ever seen

915
01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:42.239
anybody do it quite like this,
So I thank you for bringing that up.

916
01:09:42.319 --> 01:09:45.800
And maybe, uh, while you're
putting your links up, there's a

917
01:09:45.079 --> 01:09:49.119
maybe put the permol up to just
that post so people can see those cartoons

918
01:09:49.119 --> 01:09:53.399
themselves. Well, and I'll do
that. And the other thing is that

919
01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:58.159
I think was brilliant because I'm I'm
a real newshound and I'm following politics and

920
01:09:58.199 --> 01:10:01.760
the news closely, and you got
you guys did a good job of getting

921
01:10:01.840 --> 01:10:08.479
the voices of these characters. I
mean, it's as if like this this

922
01:10:08.640 --> 01:10:12.079
one with Herman Kane, I love
it. It's I may not be able

923
01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:14.720
to find Libya on a map,
but I sure as hell I have heard

924
01:10:14.720 --> 01:10:18.079
of Roswell Arizona. And someone off
to the site says mister Kane. Roswell's

925
01:10:18.079 --> 01:10:21.319
in New Mexico. No SII,
young man, I'm pretty damn sure that's

926
01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:27.760
Arizona. That's one of my favorite
ones. It's called fact check. And

927
01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:30.319
we just thought, you know,
Pete, that this is what rich and

928
01:10:30.359 --> 01:10:33.399
I have always said about disclosure,
which is, you know, you think

929
01:10:33.800 --> 01:10:36.920
yes on one level, it's the
biggest story of all time, but it

930
01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:44.720
will still be It will still be
processed by politicians and media and average people

931
01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:50.039
in ways that are very recognizable.
So if suddenly UFOs and aliens became a

932
01:10:50.079 --> 01:10:55.920
part of a presidential campaign, you'd
still have people getting their facts wrong right

933
01:10:56.079 --> 01:11:01.600
and making up things and being and
talking about it in debates. And so

934
01:11:01.720 --> 01:11:04.840
we just tried to capture that.
And but the nice thing about it,

935
01:11:04.920 --> 01:11:11.039
each cartoon by itself and then in
totality kind of tells a story and paints

936
01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:15.880
a picture of the world that could
be right and that world that could be

937
01:11:16.119 --> 01:11:20.720
Alejandro that I think why you're responding
to it is we know that you don't

938
01:11:21.119 --> 01:11:26.600
immediately go from where we are now
to a world where everyone knows everything.

939
01:11:26.840 --> 01:11:29.439
There will be a disclosure day,
as we point out in our book,

940
01:11:29.560 --> 01:11:34.000
but that disclosure day will be preceded
by in all likelihood, I mean,

941
01:11:34.039 --> 01:11:38.199
we don't have a crystal ball,
but in all likelihood it will seep into

942
01:11:38.199 --> 01:11:42.000
the public conversation in a bigger and
bigger and bigger way until then there's a

943
01:11:42.039 --> 01:11:45.760
disclosure day. So we were trying
to create that interim world, if you

944
01:11:45.800 --> 01:11:50.840
will, where people could see how
it begins to seep into public dialogue right

945
01:11:50.880 --> 01:11:56.079
before disclosure, and I think we
probably we probably did nail that. Yeah,

946
01:11:56.119 --> 01:11:59.680
well, you know, this campaign
is bunny enough these days. I

947
01:11:59.680 --> 01:12:02.159
mean, there's lots of comedy that's
generated from what these guys are saying.

948
01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:05.880
But that's what's great. Like you
said with your book, you guys are

949
01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:10.720
taking you know, a scenario what
would happen, and trying to put the

950
01:12:10.760 --> 01:12:15.079
real world and match it up to
what may happen and give plausible ideas.

951
01:12:15.680 --> 01:12:20.239
And that's what I think another reason
why I love these these comics because they

952
01:12:21.680 --> 01:12:27.039
they mirror what, just like you
said, if this story had blown up

953
01:12:27.319 --> 01:12:31.079
and these guys were to be making
comments or discussing this topic, it's probably

954
01:12:31.159 --> 01:12:34.119
Yes, I'm alert to real life
what might be happening, and there would

955
01:12:34.119 --> 01:12:38.560
be money scenarios like this. We
hope so, And thank you for giving

956
01:12:38.560 --> 01:12:42.760
it a little push, because this
is I just feel like it's time for

957
01:12:42.880 --> 01:12:46.159
us to you know, these are
all professionally produced. They look really good

958
01:12:46.319 --> 01:12:49.720
and they're not. And by the
way, they're all protected by fair use,

959
01:12:50.119 --> 01:12:53.960
so in other words, nobody can
you know, force them to be

960
01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:57.520
taken down. They are they are
the expression of political opinion and they're protected

961
01:12:58.079 --> 01:13:02.640
by the fair use done so,
so it's all kind of good and hopefully

962
01:13:03.000 --> 01:13:09.279
as we begin to use these tools, that's really helpful to the process.

963
01:13:09.479 --> 01:13:15.520
And when I said, I'm I
may be dialing back my direct activism as

964
01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:18.399
a sponsor to petitions in favor of, you know, going back to my

965
01:13:19.319 --> 01:13:23.760
what I think I do best,
which is I'm a creator of things,

966
01:13:23.800 --> 01:13:27.560
and I think I need to do
more of that and leave the active,

967
01:13:28.079 --> 01:13:31.319
the hardcore activism maybe up to others
and give them the material if you will,

968
01:13:31.640 --> 01:13:34.840
to take it forward. And that's
kind of what this was trying to

969
01:13:34.840 --> 01:13:38.359
do. Yeah, I want to
read one more too, and I wish

970
01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:41.560
I could do impressions. I can
do Reagan, I think a little bit.

971
01:13:41.760 --> 01:13:45.760
But that's about it. Yes,
very nice. But I also love

972
01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:49.000
this Obama one because it's Obama.
It's a dream scenario. Obama talking to

973
01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:55.399
doctor John Holdren, who is the
Office of Science and Technology Policy Director,

974
01:13:55.479 --> 01:14:00.239
right, and Obama saying this UFO
petition got over twenty five thousand signatures in

975
01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:04.079
the month with a broken website.
I gotta say something, or Newt will

976
01:14:04.520 --> 01:14:09.359
And then of course John Holdron's thinking
how about saying you're firing the genius who

977
01:14:09.399 --> 01:14:14.279
came up with the the people,
and you got to think that's probably what

978
01:14:14.359 --> 01:14:16.600
they'd be thinking. And then you
know the types of discussions that would be

979
01:14:16.640 --> 01:14:21.239
going on if if is what we
thought. And here's the other thing.

980
01:14:23.359 --> 01:14:26.960
This is the kind of thing.
Okay, the petition in success would get

981
01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:30.439
on a few people's desks, But
we know people are trolling the internet and

982
01:14:30.520 --> 01:14:35.479
passing around funny things. It's not
impossible that that cartoon that you just read

983
01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:41.000
out loud gets sent by one of
John Holdron's friends to himself, right,

984
01:14:41.399 --> 01:14:44.680
and he reads it and he goes, that's pretty funny, and then he

985
01:14:44.800 --> 01:14:47.880
thinks, wow, but that's also
pretty professional looking, and that's interesting,

986
01:14:48.279 --> 01:14:53.199
and it's not impossible. Like like
the you know, maybe it wouldn't get

987
01:14:53.199 --> 01:14:56.880
on Obama's desk, but I could
see the new Ingrich one being circulated around

988
01:14:56.880 --> 01:15:01.199
his campaign. I know, the
herm Caine one. Sadly he's not in

989
01:15:01.239 --> 01:15:05.960
the campaign anymore for us to have
fun with. But like you know,

990
01:15:06.199 --> 01:15:12.439
the one we did about the debates
with Rick Perry and Mitt Romney in it,

991
01:15:12.720 --> 01:15:15.600
that could easily be sent to either
of those guys campaigns and make the

992
01:15:15.680 --> 01:15:18.920
rounds and they probably have a good
time with it. Yeah. Well,

993
01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:23.039
and talking with Grant, you know, because Grant when he does these boys,

994
01:15:23.079 --> 01:15:27.680
he's spoken with some of these people
and he says that sometimes, you

995
01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:31.119
know, he's come across where some
of especially AIDS, have taken some of

996
01:15:31.159 --> 01:15:34.319
these things and posted them or put
them around or printed them out and putting

997
01:15:34.359 --> 01:15:38.159
them at their desk, you know, because they're funny. So I think

998
01:15:38.199 --> 01:15:42.119
that, yeah, it's another great
way and that's where I love and I

999
01:15:42.119 --> 01:15:45.279
think it's important with interfacing with these
people that right. I think, by

1000
01:15:45.319 --> 01:15:47.640
the way, I want to just
point one thing out to your listeners.

1001
01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:57.159
If all of these cartoons are available
for them to download and send to anybody

1002
01:15:57.199 --> 01:15:59.800
they want. In other words,
were they We're not protecting them. They're

1003
01:15:59.840 --> 01:16:02.239
not protected, so you can right
click them, download them to your computer

1004
01:16:02.319 --> 01:16:08.159
and send them to your friends.
They're also all collected on our Facebook site

1005
01:16:08.239 --> 01:16:11.600
under the photo section and you can
download them there. In other words,

1006
01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:15.680
we're not being precious about them.
They're meant to be seen and people are

1007
01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:19.039
free to send them to whoever they
want. Mm hmm, yeah, really

1008
01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:24.439
cool. Were a lot of fun. Well, thank you for recognizing that

1009
01:16:24.439 --> 01:16:27.840
that's that's great, and uh,
we do. Those They were created the

1010
01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:33.199
first I run another site called moviesmackdown
dot com and we we sort of innovated

1011
01:16:33.239 --> 01:16:41.039
these with publicity skills that the studios
put out for their movies and they work

1012
01:16:41.119 --> 01:16:45.239
so well over at movie SmackDown that
we thought, well, let's let's adapt

1013
01:16:45.279 --> 01:16:49.920
them for the whole you know,
the whole petition thing. And we put

1014
01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:56.359
those on and they seem to be
doing very well, and it clearly here's

1015
01:16:56.359 --> 01:16:59.239
how we look at them. The
ones on SmackDown and the ones here on

1016
01:16:59.800 --> 01:17:04.000
the disclosure site are both editorial cartoons. They're in the same lineage as the

1017
01:17:04.079 --> 01:17:08.399
old editorial cartoons that you might have
found in the New York Times in the

1018
01:17:08.439 --> 01:17:15.680
eighteen hundreds. You know, it's
protected free speech done about people who you

1019
01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:17.760
know, speaking truth to power.
It's speaking humor to power. Basically.

1020
01:17:18.479 --> 01:17:23.119
Yeah, I've seen the SmackDown ones
too. Those are really funny. Well

1021
01:17:23.199 --> 01:17:25.640
yeah, I mean, that's just
the thing trying to find and I guess

1022
01:17:25.680 --> 01:17:29.840
we perfected it enough we had SmackDown
that we felt like, okay, we

1023
01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:34.399
get it. So instead of using
publicity stills, which we do at SmackDown.

1024
01:17:34.720 --> 01:17:41.359
Maybe we'll just grab the most recognizable
photos from the campaign and see what

1025
01:17:41.359 --> 01:17:44.279
we could do with those. And
boy, it just thank you again.

1026
01:17:44.319 --> 01:17:49.279
It worked like a charm and hopefully
they will have as much trash and over

1027
01:17:49.359 --> 01:17:53.439
time. I may keep doing those
because I think they're just so fun.

1028
01:17:53.479 --> 01:17:59.399
And I'll tell you what, I
maybe we'll do a couple of new ones

1029
01:17:59.399 --> 01:18:00.760
for your own side. That would
be cool if you want. Oh,

1030
01:18:00.880 --> 01:18:04.039
that would be great. I mean
I love these. That would be so

1031
01:18:04.479 --> 01:18:08.199
thrilled. In fact, I'm thinking
about that now. I need to put

1032
01:18:08.199 --> 01:18:12.359
some links and stuff for my site
because these these can't get lost people.

1033
01:18:12.560 --> 01:18:14.079
Well, i'll tell you what we'll
do. Well, you know, right

1034
01:18:14.119 --> 01:18:16.720
now they have the petition, you
r l on them. I'll pull that

1035
01:18:16.760 --> 01:18:19.239
stuff off and just leave the titles
on them. We'll send you a fresh

1036
01:18:19.279 --> 01:18:21.560
copy, and we'll leaven do a
couple of new ones for you that only

1037
01:18:21.600 --> 01:18:26.640
you can have, and then that'll
be our gift to you for the new

1038
01:18:26.720 --> 01:18:30.439
year. That would be amazing,
Thank you so much. I mean,

1039
01:18:30.479 --> 01:18:34.079
you're welcome. I love these.
These are great, so and before I

1040
01:18:34.079 --> 01:18:39.279
guess we've talked the heck out of
this petition thing. So let's talk about

1041
01:18:39.319 --> 01:18:42.359
because you're you're doing a lot of
others. Well, first of all,

1042
01:18:42.359 --> 01:18:45.359
I have a piece of breaking news
that I could not have told you yesterday

1043
01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:48.399
on December thirty, first, perfect, but that I can tell you today.

1044
01:18:49.800 --> 01:18:53.399
Richard Dolan and I, as you
know, are the authors of ad

1045
01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:59.800
After Disclosure, which came out from
Keyhole Publishing in late twenty ten in a

1046
01:19:00.039 --> 01:19:08.319
hardcover edition. That edition has received
enough interest that Career Press, which is

1047
01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:13.239
a major publisher in New York,
has picked it up and is issuing a

1048
01:19:13.399 --> 01:19:17.680
new national edition in May of twenty
twelve. It will be in all the

1049
01:19:17.720 --> 01:19:24.279
Barns and Nobles and everywhere, and
it's been revised and updated and there are

1050
01:19:24.359 --> 01:19:30.239
new there's new references to things that
happen in twenty eleven, and so it's

1051
01:19:30.239 --> 01:19:34.640
all coming out and that will be
hitting the stores in May of twenty twelve.

1052
01:19:34.720 --> 01:19:39.039
And we're very excited by it because
it gave us a chance to dive

1053
01:19:39.119 --> 01:19:42.840
back in kind of as we said, you know, do some editing,

1054
01:19:42.880 --> 01:19:47.039
fix a few things, straighten out
some of the chronologies, and just basically

1055
01:19:47.039 --> 01:19:50.399
make it better. And they've been
very cooperative. We've added photos to it

1056
01:19:50.439 --> 01:19:56.119
and the photos are not your normal
photos. They tell the story of disclosure

1057
01:19:56.199 --> 01:20:00.439
in these photos. And we've also, as you know, between afters,

1058
01:20:00.479 --> 01:20:04.079
we had these faux documents from the
future, if you will. Those documents

1059
01:20:04.119 --> 01:20:09.960
have all been word processed to look
authentic by the Career Press people. So

1060
01:20:10.359 --> 01:20:15.920
as a visual thing, it's quite
a new edition and I hope people will

1061
01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:19.159
like it and enjoy it. And
you can see the cover of the new

1062
01:20:19.279 --> 01:20:25.640
edition on the after Disclosure Facebook page. It's up there right now. Right.

1063
01:20:25.720 --> 01:20:28.840
I was looking at that and I
was thinking that that looks really cool.

1064
01:20:28.880 --> 01:20:30.279
That looks different. I'm like,
yeah, how did I miss that?

1065
01:20:30.399 --> 01:20:33.840
This will graph? You know,
you didn't see it for a month

1066
01:20:33.960 --> 01:20:41.159
because we had the petition up there, And now that the petition is gone

1067
01:20:41.960 --> 01:20:45.279
and it's January first, we were
able to put that back up. Now.

1068
01:20:45.319 --> 01:20:49.000
The bad news is we can't sell
the old hardcovers through Keyhole for another

1069
01:20:49.039 --> 01:20:53.680
five months. Were kind of going
dark and then people but people can already

1070
01:20:53.840 --> 01:20:59.000
on Amazon and other places if they
choose to pre order the new version,

1071
01:20:59.079 --> 01:21:03.479
and it's obviously cheaper, it's not
hardcover, and we think it's going to

1072
01:21:03.520 --> 01:21:09.800
get a lot of traction. We're
very much enthused by the chance to get

1073
01:21:09.800 --> 01:21:12.640
in there and roll up our sleeves
and make it better. I mean,

1074
01:21:12.880 --> 01:21:15.279
that's my thing. You can always
make it better. We made it a

1075
01:21:15.319 --> 01:21:18.479
little better. We did some editing. We actually took words out of it,

1076
01:21:19.159 --> 01:21:23.439
which may seem counterintuitive, but the
words that are in there count a

1077
01:21:23.479 --> 01:21:27.279
little bit more now and they're just
a little it's just a little cleaner read

1078
01:21:27.319 --> 01:21:30.880
than it used to be. And
I'm excited about the graphics because one great

1079
01:21:30.920 --> 01:21:34.600
thing about the book, of course, you're a master of fiction and bringing

1080
01:21:34.800 --> 01:21:40.319
and entertainment and so creating. That's
what's great about the book. You have

1081
01:21:40.479 --> 01:21:47.279
this based on facts, based on
what may happen from fact, from the

1082
01:21:47.319 --> 01:21:54.079
real pat creating this possible future,
and those pieces, those mignettes like you

1083
01:21:54.079 --> 01:21:59.479
were talking about you put in with
these documents and fo documents really brought you

1084
01:21:59.560 --> 01:22:01.439
into it. It made it so
fun. It really brought you into this

1085
01:22:01.520 --> 01:22:09.000
futuristic world of a after disclosure.
And so to see those even you know,

1086
01:22:09.119 --> 01:22:14.479
perfected, that's really exciting. It
is exciting. And hopefully it won't

1087
01:22:14.560 --> 01:22:17.319
end there. When I said I'm
kind of I want to kind of return

1088
01:22:17.359 --> 01:22:19.680
to my core business. There's a
lot of ways to tell the truth.

1089
01:22:19.800 --> 01:22:25.039
You can file petitions, and certainly
we did, and that's that's run its

1090
01:22:25.079 --> 01:22:28.199
course. I'm kind of trying to
get back to my you know, in

1091
01:22:28.239 --> 01:22:32.560
my own wheelhouse again and do the
things that I think have the same game

1092
01:22:32.680 --> 01:22:38.000
changing capabilities as a successful petition might
have had, and maybe even more so.

1093
01:22:38.880 --> 01:22:43.199
But the things that I've done historically, which is right, movies and

1094
01:22:43.239 --> 01:22:46.039
television series and and and now I
guess even this, you know, this

1095
01:22:46.079 --> 01:22:51.199
cartoon format, and so this next
year, you just there's two things on

1096
01:22:51.239 --> 01:22:56.399
the horizon, but one of them
is very big, and it's the Magic

1097
01:22:56.479 --> 01:23:01.560
Menu screenplay. And we talked about
it last time we talked, but for

1098
01:23:01.600 --> 01:23:04.520
the people who haven't heard of it, it is Magic Men. M a

1099
01:23:04.680 --> 01:23:11.800
j C. Is based on the
life rights of both Stanton Friedman and Don

1100
01:23:11.840 --> 01:23:16.560
Schmidt, two men who have both
independently and together investigated the Roswell case.

1101
01:23:17.279 --> 01:23:21.640
And it also is based on the
options to their two books, Stanton Friedman's

1102
01:23:21.920 --> 01:23:29.520
Top Secret Magic and Don Schmidt's Witness
to Roswell. So we're taking the two

1103
01:23:29.600 --> 01:23:34.079
pieces of research that they've done and
their two life stories and blending them into

1104
01:23:34.520 --> 01:23:40.479
a film that if it is made. The script is very good and getting

1105
01:23:40.520 --> 01:23:46.800
better. If it's made, it
will be a groundbreaking and game changing kind

1106
01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:51.960
of screenplay. And I don't think
I've been as excited creatively about something that

1107
01:23:53.119 --> 01:23:56.600
just works as a screenplay in a
long time. So this is really exciting

1108
01:23:56.640 --> 01:24:00.560
to me. And we're moving ahead
on that. And also this I hope

1109
01:24:00.560 --> 01:24:04.399
to make some progress in setting a
d up in a television or feature arena

1110
01:24:04.439 --> 01:24:09.279
as well, because, as you
point out, the thinking about that future

1111
01:24:09.399 --> 01:24:12.600
is very visual, and there's only
so much you can do in the book

1112
01:24:12.680 --> 01:24:15.000
form. I kind of think it
needs to go into the next form,

1113
01:24:15.359 --> 01:24:17.920
the next expression, which would be
TV or film. Cool. Yeah,

1114
01:24:17.920 --> 01:24:23.199
that's exciting the Magic Men because really
one thing I was even just thinking about

1115
01:24:23.239 --> 01:24:29.199
this the other day, how enormous
the Roswell meme is. You know,

1116
01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:33.119
out of all of the concepts and
ideas that we think about, Roswell's huge.

1117
01:24:33.159 --> 01:24:39.079
It's one of the biggest around the
world. People get an idea when

1118
01:24:39.119 --> 01:24:43.159
they think of Roswell, and so
it would be great for people to see

1119
01:24:43.199 --> 01:24:46.760
how it came about. You know, this thing is it's that's why it's

1120
01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:54.000
a game changer, because it's sort
of like watching JFK the Oliver Stone film.

1121
01:24:54.119 --> 01:24:58.560
It's got more humor than JFK in
it because Stanton and donn are very

1122
01:24:58.560 --> 01:25:01.920
interesting guys, right, wonderful characters
to play with and so forth. It's

1123
01:25:01.960 --> 01:25:05.720
a little bit like All the President's
Men meets JFK with a little more humor

1124
01:25:05.760 --> 01:25:10.960
in it and UFOs science and science. But by the end of it,

1125
01:25:11.000 --> 01:25:14.760
you get to it and you go, well, heech, why was it

1126
01:25:15.079 --> 01:25:19.399
that this, this giant story wasn't
investigated by Woodward and Bernstein? Why did

1127
01:25:19.439 --> 01:25:24.960
it come down to Stanton Friedman,
a nuclear physicist, and Don Schmidt,

1128
01:25:25.039 --> 01:25:28.399
who was a postal clerk at the
time. Why did it come down to

1129
01:25:28.479 --> 01:25:31.800
these two guys that had to go
investigate this story, especially when as you

1130
01:25:31.840 --> 01:25:38.800
see through the movie just how major
this story is and how much evidence exists

1131
01:25:39.079 --> 01:25:45.039
to prove the the euphological version of
it. So I think it will be

1132
01:25:45.079 --> 01:25:48.000
a major thing, and we we
have certainly big plans, and this will

1133
01:25:48.039 --> 01:25:50.359
be the year when they, you
know, I hope to be able to

1134
01:25:50.359 --> 01:25:55.000
make some kind of announcement about who
are you know, what our plan will

1135
01:25:55.039 --> 01:25:58.720
be about taking it to film?
Awesome? Yeah, And like you said,

1136
01:25:58.880 --> 01:26:02.000
I mean President start talking about it. Hagar Matel is out there,

1137
01:26:02.760 --> 01:26:10.159
you know, that's right, very
vocal about the whole thing. So it's

1138
01:26:10.199 --> 01:26:14.720
a big, big deal. And
one other thing that I'm wrapping up right

1139
01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:19.960
now is I've also optioned Stan Friedman
and Kathleen Martin's book Captured about the Betty

1140
01:26:19.960 --> 01:26:26.920
and Barney Hill case, because I
think that's another story that was so important

1141
01:26:27.319 --> 01:26:32.079
and yet obviously it got made as
a TV movie in nineteen seventy five based

1142
01:26:32.119 --> 01:26:35.960
on not the full information. And
also, look, it was just a

1143
01:26:36.920 --> 01:26:41.359
it was TV movie fine for its
time, but it's not what we can

1144
01:26:41.399 --> 01:26:45.359
do now. And I think it's
very interesting to tell the story of Betty

1145
01:26:45.399 --> 01:26:47.439
and Barney Hill, and to tell
it in a way that we would tell

1146
01:26:47.520 --> 01:26:51.920
a movie these days. I'm certainly
compelled by the fact that in nineteen sixty

1147
01:26:51.960 --> 01:26:56.319
one, when Betty and Barney Hill
were abducted in New Hampshire, they were

1148
01:26:56.319 --> 01:27:00.520
an interracial couple, a black man
and a white woman. The only people

1149
01:27:00.560 --> 01:27:03.279
in nineteen sixty one who probably didn't
notice that they were a black man and

1150
01:27:03.319 --> 01:27:08.319
a white woman were the people who
abducted them. Yeah, well find that

1151
01:27:08.479 --> 01:27:14.159
pretty compelling. Yeah, and it's
another case I just posted yesterday my top

1152
01:27:14.199 --> 01:27:17.720
twenty stories for the year, and
one of them was the plaque that the

1153
01:27:17.760 --> 01:27:21.439
state of New Hampshire put up for
Betty and Barney Hill. I think it

1154
01:27:21.479 --> 01:27:26.920
shows how credible they were as people
and how respected they were as people.

1155
01:27:27.359 --> 01:27:32.600
And also Kathleen Martin is the perfect
champion for this subject to see herself is

1156
01:27:32.640 --> 01:27:39.640
so down to earth incredible, you
can relate to her and the story.

1157
01:27:40.279 --> 01:27:45.600
So I agree, it's another An's
been very helpful and she's allowing me to

1158
01:27:45.640 --> 01:27:51.920
review all the family photos and all
her files, and I think we're going

1159
01:27:53.000 --> 01:27:57.039
to be able to bring a new
spin to it that obviously it could really

1160
01:27:57.079 --> 01:28:00.119
benefit from. I mean, it's
a very documented case, but it have

1161
01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:05.279
been documented in film other than that
one attempt in seventy five, which was

1162
01:28:05.359 --> 01:28:09.720
low budget television, and right you
know, if you watch it right now,

1163
01:28:09.800 --> 01:28:13.159
it just doesn't really hold up that
well. And I think I think

1164
01:28:13.159 --> 01:28:17.039
there's just a new way to take
this material on and and I look forward

1165
01:28:17.079 --> 01:28:20.520
to doing that as well. Awesome, Well, yeah, Kathleen, it's

1166
01:28:20.560 --> 01:28:25.600
a great treasure. And you know
what, how lucky we aren't really thinking

1167
01:28:25.640 --> 01:28:31.720
about you and your involvement and this
whole subject and how lucky we are that

1168
01:28:31.960 --> 01:28:36.680
you know, you're you're moving forward
and moving and shaking things and you're here

1169
01:28:36.720 --> 01:28:41.960
and making things happen, and that's
great. So I want to thank you

1170
01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:46.119
for everything that you're doing. You're
doing all some great stuff and we're we're

1171
01:28:46.159 --> 01:28:48.520
running out of time. So was
there anything else you needed to mention?

1172
01:28:49.159 --> 01:28:51.000
Well, no, I just wanted
to say that. I well, first

1173
01:28:51.039 --> 01:28:55.840
of all, I appreciate what you
just said, and and you know,

1174
01:28:55.960 --> 01:29:00.479
in terms of making things happen,
I just want everyone to understand there's always

1175
01:29:00.520 --> 01:29:02.960
setbacks, just as the petition was
a setback, and maybe some maybe Basket

1176
01:29:02.960 --> 01:29:06.119
will pick up that standard and carry
it forward. The same is true in

1177
01:29:06.159 --> 01:29:12.520
television and film. It's just it's
because it's a collaborative medium, and because

1178
01:29:12.560 --> 01:29:16.840
it's expensive to make TV and film, and because of all these issues.

1179
01:29:17.199 --> 01:29:20.760
It's it's never as simple as saying, well, we're shooting on June twelfth.

1180
01:29:20.800 --> 01:29:24.640
You know you can't quite You got
to you got to put the coalition

1181
01:29:24.760 --> 01:29:28.239
together to make a film or a
television series. In the same way that

1182
01:29:28.279 --> 01:29:30.880
the people who are listening uh and
want to be activists in the whole area

1183
01:29:31.199 --> 01:29:34.239
need to also build coalition. So
I guess that's the message of the whole

1184
01:29:34.439 --> 01:29:40.399
of the whole hour that we've been
talking. Mm hmm. So thank you

1185
01:29:40.560 --> 01:29:45.479
much, and I look forward to
sending you a few of our of our

1186
01:29:45.520 --> 01:29:49.680
disclosure cartoons for your site. And
I thank you for awesome well, thank

1187
01:29:49.720 --> 01:29:53.880
you, and I'm so excited to
see you again in February at the Congress.

1188
01:29:54.239 --> 01:29:57.439
I'll beat there. I'm working on
a new speech I've been giving one

1189
01:29:57.479 --> 01:30:00.159
over the years called or for the
last year rather called life after Contact.

1190
01:30:00.279 --> 01:30:04.600
And even though that's my topic or
the title, I'm trying to add some

1191
01:30:04.640 --> 01:30:09.760
new material that brings into play all
these things we've been discussing. Yeah.

1192
01:30:09.920 --> 01:30:12.239
Yeah, it's always fun to be
at the conference to have you know,

1193
01:30:12.600 --> 01:30:15.279
your group of people around and to
be networking. And yes, and I'm

1194
01:30:15.319 --> 01:30:20.399
always busy running around like a chicken
with my head cut, but I could

1195
01:30:20.560 --> 01:30:24.560
usually carve out some pieces of time
there, so it's going to be cool.

1196
01:30:24.600 --> 01:30:27.439
I have one other thing about your
conference then, Okay, even though

1197
01:30:27.479 --> 01:30:31.560
we can't sell our book through Keyhole, I do have a number of the

1198
01:30:31.600 --> 01:30:35.359
hardcover collector's editions, if you will, then I'm going to bring with me

1199
01:30:35.399 --> 01:30:39.279
because I can sell them at the
conference and we'll try to make a good

1200
01:30:39.279 --> 01:30:42.239
deal for everybody to get those in
the hands of people who want a collector's

1201
01:30:42.359 --> 01:30:45.560
edition. Sweet. All right,
well, thank you so much for being

1202
01:30:45.560 --> 01:30:49.000
on the show. You have a
wonderful week ahead of you and we'll talk

1203
01:30:49.039 --> 01:30:54.560
soon. Thanks very much, see
you. Yeah, all right, thank

1204
01:30:54.600 --> 01:30:58.439
you Bryce for being on the show. That document we talked about with the

1205
01:30:58.520 --> 01:31:03.079
emails from the White House and mister
Larson talking about putting together the answer for

1206
01:31:03.159 --> 01:31:09.119
the et petition. I will have
that up on a link to that on

1207
01:31:09.520 --> 01:31:13.159
UFO Daily News in just an hour
or two, so you can go to

1208
01:31:13.239 --> 01:31:18.159
Ufodailynews dot com and find that it's
written bry Grant Cameron and I'll have that

1209
01:31:18.199 --> 01:31:24.159
link up soon. Also join us
next week. We have a great show.

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We've got Reuben Juriarte and Noe Torres
of Roswell Books dot com and they

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have a new book called Aliens in
the Forest and this is a really crazy

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California et experience that happened in sixty
four and we've got clips from the witness

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and just a real crazy thing.
So you're definitely gonna want to check this

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out. So I will talk to
you next week. People don't forget to

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check openminds dot tv for the latest
in UFO news. Audios mouchatos do